I know about Shadow but what is Secrets otWW? A new version?

>>93161789
I'm digging it. I'll probably be back with more thoughts later but in general I think it's as good as SotDL, if not better. It's very different in a lot of ways but it all works for what it's doing from what I've played.


>>93162280
The GM book for SotWW. It's a two book set.

Sanitized cashgrab slopbreaker

>>93162786
I really liking the magic system, will DM with it soon
The setting, on the other hand, feels really bleak

>>93162929
You think the setting is bleak?

>>93162986
I didn't feel any specific flavour on it, might be bacause it's a fantastic setting we still only have the human ancestry, might change my opinion when the weird ancestries is out. Also, the whole "simple" naming thing worked really well for me in SotDL, but not as well in SotWW. What did you think of the setting?

>>93163181
Secrets has a load of ancestries and most of them are what would've been in the player book had they stayed there.

>>93163347
I see, will check the full thing after I get the time, I only saw the pre-release version,

I'm still reading through the SotWW core book, but is it just me or the luck rolls feel too numerous? Like, where I would expect an attribute roll it instead requires a luck roll and such.

>>93163511
mostly come up for durations for things, no? felt fine when I played it but that was pre-release. my table will jump back in soon now it's out in full.

Is 1 minute duration supposed to be the round you cast it on + 5 rounds (so if you cast a 1 minute spell on round 1, then it ends round 6) or 6 rounds (cast round 1, ends round 7)?

>>93164421
In SotWW 1 minute effects are assumed to last the entire encounter. So no counting turns. Not that you're super likely to do 6 or 7 rounds in 1 encounter anyway.

>>93164678
>In SotWW 1 minute effects are assumed to last the entire encounter
Did they just get rid of durations in SotWW? Is 1 round not 10 seconds?

>scroll through PDF
>see combat wheelchair
>close PDF, write off game

>>93165067
Pics?

>>93164951
It's just what I said, 1 minute effects are assumed to last the entire encounter. Feel free to count the rounds if you'd prefer but by default you don't need it.

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>>93161789
>>Trove Link:
>r3br@nd <dot> ly /SDL
This only has the preview of Secrets. NewVola has the full final release.

Man, some of the art is out there.

Oh no, cherubs

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Total fey death

>>93164351
Yes, and I get those. Also the ones being able regain the use of a path's talent. But for example in >>93165507: why is Chaotic Mischief a luck roll instead of rolling against an attribute like Agility or Will? It just feels weird after SotDL.

>>93161789
Don't plan on switching over from Shadow, looking at the health of paths in WW reminds me of the health bloat of D&D 5e. I kinda enjoy the fact that most characters go down in a few good hits, even master level peak mortals, which is also why I don't use the revised core book monster stat blocks with inflated health scores. There's some useful mechanics to add from WW though, covering an ally is a neat triggered action and I gave dodge to all warrior paths from Bred for Battle at level 5 instead of it being a universal triggered action in WW.

>>93165067
At least it had a pair of propellers and was flying through the air. Also, it was properly placed near the prosthetics section, so it's not quite as bad as it sounds.
The worst part is the book still refers to races as ancestries, but that trend is likely to stick around for a while.

>>93165507
>mixing the bestiary and playable races in one chapter
Why?

>>93169705
>which is also why I don't use the revised core book monster stat blocks with inflated health scores
I would agree with you, but some path combos give players so much damage and defense that fights can end stupidly fast if the enemies don't have a little more health than the players.

>>93173177
Human default

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>>93173177
I thought it was bad too, but the index at the back actually lists all the entries that include playable race stuff neatly.

>>93174290
>raceorspeciesisbetter
Imagine unironically thinking that

>>93170473
>The worst part is the book still refers to races as ancestries
The term "race" was always fucking retarded when it came to differentiate between humans, elves, half-orcs, etc. Only a retarded grognard would seether over "ancestries"

>>93174450
Species is also just as retarded in this case when there are things that aren't species, like clockworks, and blanket terms like humans.

>>93174290
I just found that. But still, it really bothers me how the ancestries are showcased. SotDL did such a good job of giving a taste of everything while still having many grounds for expansion, is so weird to see SotWW falling so hard at that.

"A wide range of possible ancestries, including fallen angels, dhampirs, and even revenants who refuse to go to the grave, appear in Weird Ancestries, a supplement for Shadow of the Weird Wizard. Abbreviated versions of these ancestries show up in Chapter 3." Abbreviated is a huge understatement, we were given just a small box of information that doesn't even have a level 4 ancestry benefit.

>>93174498
Those aren't any different to what would've been in the player book had they remained in the player book. Those write up are still bigger than what SotDL gave in its core books too. Ancestries not having a level 4 thing has nothing to do with it. It's one of the first changes made to the game so Expert Paths could have another level to do interesting things with.

>>93174498
Basically what other anon said except that some of them were never in Shadow but it's fairly easy to see which is which. If something reads like it was written exclusively as a monster it was and then was later changed to be playable, if it reads like a player thing it was a player thing. There were only ever 21 ancestries in Shadow so 20 of the Secrets ones are from that, and the rest were monsters first (or they mostly were some things flip flopped). The only thing that was lost in the transition was a background table for each of them IIRC.

As for "Abbreviated" I actually really dislike that explanation for them because it's generally false. The move didn't really alter their text. There are a couple whose writeups got shorter from their pre-Secrets version to their Secrets version but we're talking about a dozen words shorter. Then there are things like Elf that got 150 words more. Mechanically they didn't get simplified either. Abbreviation is a misleading way to frame it because if they were in Shadow they wouldn't be any longer.

Compared to SotDL mechanically they don't have a Level 4, but as explained that was changed way way back (and the trade off is 100 worth it), but they're generally more complex and varied than what SotDL has even today. Outside of Powerful Ancestries I can't think of anything that rivals a Daeva for example. When Weird Ancestries is out they'll all effectively be Powerful Ancestries too*. Although even then that's not an abbreviation because that's a new idea and was never in the cards for Shadow. Clockwork is probably the only major streamlining comparing the two and even that one has actually gotten more complicated since it was moved to Secrets.

*they're all getting an exclusive Novice Path like Powerful Ancestries, but as I said that was never a thing until well after Weird Ancestries was started.

>>93174471
I didn't see "species", only "ancestries", which can be taken in a less literal way for shit like constructs.
Anyway yeah, "species" is dumb.

>>93174962
They posted an image with the indexed ancestries called "aceorspeciesisbetter"

>>93174703
>>93174949
Okay, fair. I was remembering things with this sense of grandeur, but I went back to the core books of SotDL and I understood your points. Damn

>>93165507
>difficulty 2
>difficulty 4
>difficulty 8
>difficulty 16
>difficulty 32
>difficulty 64
Why? 1-10-25-50-100-250-500-750-1000 was already good.

>>93174290
The core promises thirty races expanding these options. Does that mean thirty new races or mostly subraces?

>>93176016
It's this list.
>Archon, Cambion, Centaur, Changeling, Clockwork, Daeva, Demigod, Dhampir, Dragonet, Dwarf, Elf, Faun, Goblin, Halfling, Haren, Harpy, Hobgoblin, Jann, Living Statue, Naga, Pollywog, Revenant, Shade, Sphinx, Spriggan, Sprite, Tatterdemalion, Triton, Warg, and Woodwose.
It'll be expanded write ups, tables, a Novice Path unique to them, and that sort of thing. I doubt sub-ancestries will be a thing but maybe. It wouldn't surprise me if, say, Clockworks got some variability there but I wouldn't expect it universally.

>>93176136
Thanks.

>>93165507
Didn't know there was a thread up but I've uploaded them now.

>>93161789
Didn't this use to be the Secrets of the White Wizard?

>>93179679
yeah but after an extended legal battle with the Tolkien estate it had to be renamed

>>93179679
Was supposed to be Shadow of the Mad Wizard. Rob caved- sorry, he "thought it over" thanks to a bunch of nobodies on twitter who won't even be buying the game, let alone play it.

>>93183964
>Was supposed to be Shadow of the Mad Wizard.
>Rob caved- sorry, he "thought it over"
I don't get it, why did it need to be changed? Weird Wizard sounds better, but what was the issue?

>>93184490
probably that it sounds like a shitty sequel to wotc's shitty mad wizard dungeon

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>>93184490
It was this. Two people mentioned a problem they had. Schwalb said no, thought about it, and then went "actually you're right and there is no point creating any feel bad in the community over a title". So the most incredibly boring situation to have ever happened. Some how it's still a talking point though because I guess people can't move on from 5 tweets and a word change.

>>93184490
Mad wizard is definitely better, "mad" has alien villainous connotations because it's supposed to, if you were living within the sphere of influence of an insane amoral wizard then you would definitely call him "the mad wizard". You'd only call him "the weird wizard" if you were afraid that he was listening.

>>93184630
>"mad" has alien villainous connotations
But he's not a villain, so it's shit
>You'd only call him "the weird wizard" if you were afraid that he was listening.
So they'd only ever call him that because there is a good chance he is actually listening

>>93184644
>not a villain
>a good chance he is actually listening
ffs, pick one.

>>93184581
He should've just said "Stay Mad" and played it off as marketing if any actual customers complained.

>>93184581
That second worthless waste of oxygen was dying to get a chance to be hired as a "consultant". I also never believed the first bitch played SotDL, not for a second. Cause it's FILLED with madness, insanity and all kinds of thing that should make a society media activist squick out.

>>93184994
Who cares?

>>93185016
No, he's right. Those fucking grifters need to be punished and shut-out whenever possible.

>>93184490
'Weird Wizard' sounds like a sanitized version of the original title. 'Mad Wizard' is more obviously villainous.

>>93185080
The wizard doesn't seem like a villain though

>>93185060
Do something about it then. Go punish them.

>>93185080
>'Mad Wizard' is more obviously villainous.
So it's a worse title because he's not a villain so it's implying the wrong thing about the character. Which you obviously know because you have an interest in the game outside of using it to get assblasted.

>>93185088
Because he's not.

>>93185060
Pretty much, it's like the Black Myth: Wukong thing, where the Chinese devs just ignored them. You could feel the actual seething in every post.

>>93184581
>'Problematic'
Where do 'people' like that even come from?

I love seeing the comments about Mad Wizard being better because it signifies villainy, it's the most transparent virtue signal you could make

Any cool Paths in weird wizard compared to demon lord?
I hear that they changed how spellcasting stack between paths, how are spell-swords/gish type characters in SWW?

>>93185457
All the Paths are new but there are lots of new concepts in them, I can mention a few favourite at Expert and Master. Inheritor somehow comes into the possession of a magical weapon as as they level up it grows in power until it becomes a sentient thing. Sorcerer is totally different in style to SotDL, you entreat with evil spirits to gain temporary benefits like new spells and sacrifice your Health and some of those benefits for longer lasting buff. Beastfriend is finally a pet class in this engine, and it's a fun one too where the pet grows with you but if it dies you gain buffs until it comes back.

For Master Paths there is Bearer of the Black Blade, this is similar to the Inheritor except the Black Blade is and incredibly cursed and blood thirsty long sword and it will turn against you if you fail to satisfy its hunger. There is a sidebar explaining that if you took Inheritor at Expert you were wielding the Black Blade the whole time and only now has it's true nature revealed itself. If your Inheritor weapon wasn't a long sword it turns out the legends of the Black Blade are wrong and whatever your relic weapon is is the type of weapon the Black Blade is in reality. The Destroyer is fairly straight forward Destruction caster but its final talent lets it unleash a Size 100 50d6 explosion that might also annihilate you. The Blessed Knaves serves the god of thieves and they get chunk of effects they can use once a day, and then when they use them they gain buffs, and then they gain loads more effects in that list. It's a fun dynamic to play with. Sort of like mini-spells. Death Dealer makes a return but is actually really solid this time around.

Spell progression changed at lot. Basically Power isn't a thing anymore and Paths just give you a tier of spell each level. It's more flexible to make a gish now as you don't get fucked for starting as a martial, or starting magic and go martial later and then back to magic. Gish Paths are still there though.

>>93174290
>fucking Pollywogs
>no Satyr
Bullshit

>>93186140
Look at fauns.
Satyrs are goat formorians.

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>>93186140
>>93186175
Oh that's weird. Definitely playable, just not listed in the index.

Weird Wizard killed the hype

>>93193332
These threads have been dead since long long before SotWW, bumpfag.

>>93193706
Well, it doesn't help that we have our own personal schizo that spams even when the games are mentioned elsewhere. But this thread won't survive long, with the board auto-sageing threads that are a week old.

>>93194104
More pointless bait will help make these threads active. Good plan.

>>93193332
"Weird Wizard" is what caused me to check the game out in the first place. I would've ignored "Mad Wizard" since that sounds like every other fucking fantasy setting on the market.

>>93194104
we need less people answering questions and running troves on /tg/?

>>93194234
i think he meant the game itself

Will SotWW have starting adventures like SotDL? The website mentions two novice ones, but is it just too early to expect any?

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I heard that SotWW is a homage to Greyhawk, and that the "Mad Wizard" or "Weird Wizard" is based off of Zagyg. Is this true? Does this game have strong Greyhawk vibes?

Background info on Zagyg: https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/Zagyg

>>93199089
>SotWW is a homage to Greyhawk?
Yep. "Love letter to Greyhawk" was part of the initial pitch for it back when it was called Free Companies of Four Towers. The scope has changed somewhat since then but it's not suddenly become an entirely new thing. Although it's not the first time he's given nods to Greyhawk. SotDL's setting is Urth, an obvious reference to Greyhawk's Oerth. SotWW continues that too as its setting is Erth.

>"Weird Wizard" is based off of Zagyg?
Not directly, but it's a nod to that idea. The Weird Wizard is a self-parody of Schwalb the same way Zagyg was a self-parody of Gygax. They have some over lap as they're both eccentric, powerful magic users, with vast knowledge of the occult. The Weird Wizard isn't a particularly humorous character that leans into the same sort of randomness and jokes aren't really something you could define him with. Equally, he's not really a part of the setting in the same way Zagyg was. The Weird Wizard is more of a background element than Zagyg was. At least for what SotWW is about to start with. There are two Castle Greyhawk equivalents, the aforementioned Four Towers and the Forbidden City, that the Weird Wizard is tied to in similar fashion to Zagyg and the Castle but those are coming a little down the road.

>Greyhawk vibes?
I would say so, but it's also not Greyhawk and is doing a lot of different things. Greyhawk is a major touchstone for it but it's not the only one. Although a lot of the other things are also touchstones for Greyhawk itself. But SotDL itself is also a core building block and that's very different. So there is a lot of strangers in a strange land, civilisations being more of the S&S sort and not shining paragons, and non-humans are less the focus for PCs. But then there are things like the starting point of the game is a massive civil war that's seen the collapse of the humans great kingdom and sent them spilling into said strange land. So it's not Greyhawk but they would be friends.

>>93199773
Cool, thanks for the info, anon. I always had a soft spot for Greyhawk (and Castle Greyhawk in particular) so this sounds like my cup of tea.

>>93198275
That is the starting adventure. Level 0 isn't inherently built into the system, and is an alternate rule.

I was team Rob for awhile but then I realized he's a dude who can't prioritize projects properly. The final straw was when he said he wasn't releasing pdfs in progress to backers because of one bad egg leaking it. News flash buddy, this is just par for the course and expected on the internet. Because of Rob's whiny ass I've decided I'll pirate everything future he makes out of pure fucking principle.

>>93203034
Why would you think anyone here would care?

>>93203100
Sorry, I thought this was a weird wizard thread.

>>93161789
started up rereading both books now that they are complete, just hoping that the ancestry book will release quickly.
Got already quite a few idea regarding characters I'd like to make & Quest I started writing, it's nice to have another gm in the group who is interested in running.
I'm much more tempted making Warrior or Rogue character, mages & most magic expert/master path don't interest me much; same for Priest, although for the later, their Master path are nice, really tempted to do something like a Warrior>Commander>Valkyrie
I'm glad to see that Rogue got their trickery back for non combat roll

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>>93166409
Kill feys. Behead feys. Roundhouse kick a fey into the convrete. Slam dunk a fey baby into the trashcan. Crucify filthy feys. Defecate in a fey foodplate. Launch feys into the sun . Stir fry feys in oil. Toss feys into active volcanoes. Urinate into a fey wine. Judo throw feys into a dragon's maw. Twist feys heads off. Report feys to the men of gog. Unarmed strike feys in half. Curb stomp pregnant feys. Trap feys in quicksand. Crush feys under an elephant. Impale feys. Eat feys. Dissect feys . Exterminate feys.. Stomp feys skulls with steel boots. Cremate feys in the kiln. Lobotomize feys . Mandatory hateful defecation for feys. Grind feys babies in a mortar. Drown feys in liquid gold. Incinerate feys with fire. Kick feys off a cliff. Feed feys to the lions. Slice feys with their own bone swords.

>>93164951
I don't know about SotWW, but in DL if the fight is lasting longer than six rounds odds are good you are in deep shit already.

>>93173807
If you build a character around killing shit stupid fast, they should be able to kill shit stupid fast. One of the best things about DL was that a pure melee character built to just murder shit with a big ol axe was damn good at doing just that.

anyone know how to add the foundry vtt compendia packs to my game?

>>93186056
>Basically Power isn't a thing anymore and Paths just give you a tier of spell each level
So you can effectively "skip" spell levels depending on your path progression?

>>93214254
Yes

>>93211369
There comes a point where that isn't good for balance or believable. There has to be a limit somewhere, and there are some creatures that a single or three-piece of dudes — by virtue of the danger level of the world and how mortal the characters are — should not be able to just chew right through. Killing regular dudes in one hit is one thing, but being able to 2-turn a big ol' demon just breaks the fantasy. There's no real downside to building for damage either, because you'll usually have enough incidental skills for outside of combat (especially if you are a caster) that you don't really miss out on anything in particular. At most, you'll lack a couple specialized skills with extra out-of-combat use.

>>93214478
Interesting.
Feels kind of unnatural in a way, but it could very well be that it plays better like that.

>>93214983
Worked the same for martials in SotDL

>>93215032
Not really? You still only got access to lower level spells if you picked up spellcasting later or skipped out on a magic path along the way.

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>>93211125
kek

>>93215111
Martials don't tend to get spells so that's a little irrelevant

>>93215175
So then it doesn't work the same. Your point was that it was the same for martials, but martials who take a little bit of casting (which isn't necessarily a bad idea anyway) in SotDL will always be more limited to fewer, weaker spells but get the benefit of having better defenses/damage/attack consistency. Martials in SotWW can take a dip into magic later on and get access to a stronger spell that has its own amount of casts. There's less of a sense of progression from novice to masterful — or something in between — in Weird Wizard because you can skip straight to the higher level spells as a novice caster.
There are very different experiences for gishing or taking a small dip into casting between the two games.

>>93215230
No, my point was if you take a martial master path in SotDL you do the same thing as taking a magical master path in SotWW. You skip the foundational stuff and get the best technique. It SotWW it works for both sides, in SotDL you could only do it as a martial. In either game doing it leaves you plainly worse at that side of things than someone that didn't.

>>93215240
>if you take a martial master path in SotDL
>You skip the foundational stuff and get the best technique
But you don't. If you wait until Master Path to pick up magic, you'll probably just get a level 0 spell and 1-2 level 1 spells because you gained 1 Power. Weird Wizard martials who take a dip will get a Master-level spell.
That's why it's unnatural. You're skipping "the basics" and getting right to the big toys even though you waited to get magic. You can't do that in Demon Lord because you always start at the bottom and work your way up.

>>93215278
Jesus Christ. If in SotDL you take two magic paths and then Death Dealer the character learns the martial equivalent to a master spell. They know, without any prior training, how to kill a swath of people in a single blow. Which is much the same as if in SotWW you take two martial paths and then a magic path to gain a master spell. Why are you being so deliberately obtuse? Martial paths did not require any foundational knowledge.

>>93215292
>Why are you being so deliberately obtuse?
I'm not. You are literally missing the point of why it feels unnatural in Weird Wizard.
>Martial paths did not require any foundational knowledge.
Correct, but the point is about how magic gets to skip levels in Weird Wizard while you cannot in Demon Lord. In Demon Lord, you start at the bottom no matter when you start learning it. This is natural because you are learning new magical knowledge for the first time. You've just been initiated and didn't skip the basics. In Weird Wizard, you skip that.
NO one said anything about casters getting to learn the "martial equivalent to a master spell" because that isn't the point we're talking about. You're trying to talk about the other half of the equation.
Let me refer back to your post here >>93215032
>Worked the same for martials in SotDL
The way you worded this made me believe your point was that
>martials could take magic late in WW at it would be the same.
If I misunderstood that, then that's my bad, but that literally is not what's in question here. That's just whataboutism.

>>93215343
Yes, you have clearly misunderstood something and I'm not going to argue with a wall about it. No one was even disagreeing with you.

>>93215358
So then why bring up martials when that wasn't what anyone was asking about?

>>93173807
>>93214857
What paths do stupid amounts of damage anyway? The only ones I've encountered are usually gishes, aside from spellguard, there's rogue with double actions, chronicler that can make triggered action attacks at level 9, and time mages in general.

>>93215175
Yeah, I suppose so.
Magic levels are more like discrete features than a progression.

>>93216171
I think the Slayer from Shadow of Demon Lord did a whole bucket of damage, like I think like a dozen or twenty even, with some limitation/pre-requistie of course

>>93211125
Rob is sure taking his sweet time with the Return of the Witch King, I kinda just want to see his stats and the stats of the patrons from that canceled board game from a few years ago

Unless I'm missing something, necromancers can't control animated skeletons only rotting zombies that don't last long without special attention. Is this intentional?

>>93221171
Which game?

>>93221211
Weird Wizard, sorry.

>>93221241
If you mean skeletons as literal skeletons, flavour is free, but the animated corpses last forever.

>>93222568
Animate Corpse reads:
>Natural Decay: The animated corpse loses 1 Health at the end of each of your rests.
They don't decompose as fast as the Rouse Corpse companions, but they still break down. This might make sense for zombies, but not for skeletons and especially when animated skeletons are specifically not undead. Part Bone From Flesh is an expert Dark Arts spell that creates animated skeletons, but they're hostile and I don't see any talent or spell that allows control. Just strange that, by RAW, necromancers can't have permanent skeleton companions.

>>93184630
Weird wizard is way better and absolutely the right move. You are thinking too small. Mad wizard isn't his brand, it gets used everywhere. Weird Wizard is something he can own and build. Plus the alliteration makes it stick.
Go put "mad wizard" in whatever search engine you want and see how many pages it takes to find Shadow of the Weird Wizard. Then do the same thing with "Weird Wizard." And just so you don't complain that the name changed go ahead and do the full "Shadow of the Mad Wizard."
Mad Wizard is heavily used and way too close to the Dungeon of the Mad Mage. He would be competing with all that other mad wizard content for mind space. Weird Wizard is his and his alone.

>>93161789
What dnd Edition was this partially based on again?

>>93224162
Pops up the game as the first search results, even with an incognito tab. Only the last two results are for things related to Dungeon of the Mad Mage.

>>93224662
If you mean the Demon Lord Engine itself, closest is actually 5e. But... barely. But if you meant thematically for Weird Wizard Rob called it a "Love letter to Greyhawk".

>>93184490
>>93224162
>>93184630
I prefer Weird Wizard because it immediately ushers in the vibes that the Borderlands are fucked up by their eldritch horseshit and turned into an alien region compared to the civilized world.
Simply calling him a Mad Wizard with their own private kingdom, in a fantasy context, would make me think of the realm as being way more stable and controlled. Hostile with intent, rather than hostile because it's been incidentally twisted by someone with no moorings to mortal life. As the "Weird Wizard" the focus is more that they're so nakedly powerful that they basically became a cosmic horror, where the well-being of the natural world is outside their interests, rather than simply being a wide-reaching example of the classic megalomaniac Wizard In A Tower.

Also the first descriptor the Weird Wizard gets in the rulebook is that they're seen as "a mad sorcerer," so it's hardly much of a back down.

>>93224162
>>93224863
So I guess you're just going to play every angle until you find something that sticks?

>>93224911
First off, you're responding to two different people. Second, nobody's opinions don't need to 'stick.' We're all anonymous and nobody here cares about winning you over. Nothing could conceivably change for anybody here whether or not anything we say sticks or is shat on.

>>93184581
This is so insane
>nu /tg/ will defend this

SOTDL is pretty fun and I've played several successful campaigns with it. SOTWW is awful garbage that invents a bunch of retarded problems out of thin air and actively sabotages parts of SOTDL to appeal to retards.
>nerf rogues for absolutely no reason so now there's no reason to play anything other than a fighter
>remove Power so spells are completely separate isolated powers and you can just pick a bunch of Paths with better health, damage, and passive benefits and then poach the strongest spells in the game later on for no downside, while somebody dumb enough to start as a caster gimps himself with worse class features and MASSIVELY lower health for no benefit, since spells are isolated islands of power packages you pick for each given Path.
>Dumb shit like Luck rolls thrown everywhere
>somehow SOTDL could fit fucking Clockworks in the core rulebook, but Weird Wizard needs you to paypig for the bestiary just to get other playable races, because instead they decided putting inclement weather rules in the core rulebook was a better idea
>changed level scaling of race benefits for the worse
>implemented a total joke of dying mechanic that's more kid gloves than fucking 5e

>>93228095
>>somehow SOTDL could fit fucking Clockworks in the core rulebook, but Weird Wizard needs you to paypig for the bestiary just to get other playable races, because instead they decided putting inclement weather rules in the core rulebook was a better idea
Clockworks are in the core book. It's a two book set, dummy.

>>93228095
I know this is bait but how can it sabotage SotDL when it's not SotDL? They're not the same game, anon. You can just play SotDL.

>>nerf rogues for absolutely no reason
I would've agreed slightly before Trickery got changed but now it lets you use it out of combat my table has no issues. Fighter is much fightier, Rogue is way more flexible, capable at far more than just fighting, has greater manoeuvrability, and that 2 bane dodge thing is a life saver. The 1d6 on whatever the last talent is called is a bit weak but the move is very nice. I'm glad to see the back of that extra turn too.

>>remove Power
I can't say I get it. Power sucked dick in SotDL because of how it ruined scaling between paths, martial paths in SotDL did the same thing magic Paths in SotWW do, and taking two martial paths and then one magic one might give you a couple of good spells but it doesn't make you a great caster. You lose out on loads of stuff by skipping magic paths early. Which is good. The whole point is to mix and match so you should be able to do that without cucking yourself.

>>Dumb shit like Luck rolls thrown everywhere
Eh, Luck is a great addition IME. It's been working really well at my table.

>>somehow SOTDL could fit fucking Clockworks in the core rulebook
As other anon said, it's a two book core set. You can't actually play the game without also having rules for Clockworks.

>>changed level scaling of race benefits for the worse
But it's way better for Paths. I'd take another level on Paths for 1 less feature from a race. Especially when races are more interesting overall now and are getting novices.

>>implemented a total joke of dying mechanic that's more kid gloves than fucking 5
In play attrition is a pretty major factor. I wish there was a bit of roll over, or a flat loss, but for the sake of simplicity I'm happy to not have to do that math.

Obviously YMMV and all but this is why it's a different game. It's not trying to appeal to the same niches.

>>93228095
>>nerf rogues for absolutely no reason so now there's no reason to play anything other than a fighter
if it's about rogue not getting trickery out of combat, that was changed back to how it originally wise, I remember seeing (rightful) complains about it on forums and in the Shadow general. So now, I'd say they are very much a good pick

Is this just OSR but with extra grimderp?

>>93231091
No, neither SotDL or SotWW are OSR systems.

>>93231091
It is more like a better version of 5E with 4E and Warhammer FRPG influences.