>>93176379
>tq
I'm not sure you understand what a question is OP.

Some Compendium teams were much more playable than others. Space marines were the obvious dead wood that needed a shot in the arm, so giving them a -1 to normal damage received would make them a bit more survivable. Probably in the form of a ploy though, no need to go overboard.

Attention teamupdatefag
Whans dorfs n worms

>>93176379
>TQ
Imperial Guard
Change leader to commissar, give him the abillity to execute one guy and every ready operative that can perform a charge action, changes to engage order and make a free charge action. (fun yes playable probably no)

Tomb world
Take 8 operatives from the list
NECRON WARRIOR
IMMORTAL
FLAYED ONE
DEATHMARK
If your total number of Immotrals and Deathmarks combined is four or less you can take one additional operative (he cannot be an immortal or deathmark)

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I'm having lots of fun with Alpha Legion Legionaries. I realise why I like playing elite teams after so long with Inquisition, corsairs and HotA. Nurgle/Khorne marks, with undivided on the chosen for access to free double shoot/double fight and a reroll for the plasma pistol. My last game I charged a flayer agent with my balefire acolyte. The flayer stacked some good abilities, ploys and spiked rolling to get four crits. I killed it, but was left on two wounds. Being Nurgle and having made all Nurgle not wounded until the end of the turning point I used the last activation to firestorm two agents sitting in cover, retaining 3 crits on each of them for mortal wounds all around. That's how one hydra operative took out three Drukhari in a single activation. It was a bold gambit, but gave me the game, 17-5.

I know no one cares but I had fun and I wanted to share it.

>>93176866
Did anyone actually play guardsmen? The first box dropped was Octarius, featuring vet guards who are superior in almost every way.

>>93176889
Grats on the dub anon. Your dudes look very neat and I love the bases. Is there like a cracked dirt paint or something or do the bases come like that?

>>93176908
Mostly scions.

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>>93176927
Thank you anon.

The bases are stock 32mm GW. I sanded the surface down smooth to help the crackle paint work and then applied Martian Ironearth over a base coast of Rhinox Hide so tye cracks wouldn't be pure black. A drybrush of Jokaero Orange and then one of Tyrant Skull, not cleaning the brush to blend the two colours better. The rim was done with Scale75 black thinned with Tamiya X20-A thinner for a smoother finish, then the whole thing was varnished with AK Interactive matte varnish through the airbrush. The tufts are a large and medium blasted heath from Tajima1.

>>93176908
The only consistently successful Guard players in the competitive environment played all Scions. Some people tried to say 7 Guard with 5 Scions was better for double plasma but they were wrong.

No one really plays Guard competitively anymore.

Casually, tons of people play Compendium teams to this day. So yes people actually played and still do play Compendium Imperial Guard.

>>93177034
NTA, but I never would've thought to use an orange that strong. It looks very nice, well done.

so have pdfs or scans of termination popped up? I hunger for fluff

>>93177362
I'd scan mine but my store only got stock in spanish

>>93177362
It's 4:19am BST and I have slept absolutely dreadfully so I will be having a massive lie in. When I wake up I'm going to start building the brood brothers, I'll start scanning the book in between models.

>>93177514
thanks for doin' this, no rush so long as it eventually gets done. Enjoy your sleep.

>>93177423
Thanks for the offer, but i would prefer it in english.

>>93176889
I also switched to elites recently and the game feels so much more relaxed when I don't need to figure out mm precise placement for 12-14 operatives. Plus your operatives are generally reliable. It's very comfy and like you said the multi kills feel insanely cool.

>>93177578
>the game feels so much more relaxed when I don't need to figure out mm precise placement for 12-14 operatives
The game also feels so much more relaxed when you don't play like a beardy faggot.

>>93177755
Kill team is too lethal to not be precise in your movements. If you walk a guy into the wrong spot by half an inch he'll just die and you'll lose the game, or he'll be 5.5 inches away from an objective next turn or so on. With horde teams if I have a guy in the wrong spot then it gets even worse because the splash damage from blast will end up killing a 3 or 4 guys in one shot.

>>93177755
A bolt gun is very capable of one shooting an operative with seven wounds and a 5+ save. And most bolt guns have the capacity to shoot twice. As >>93177771 pointed out, the game is lethal. In a straight line up with no cover marines would massacre a guard tier army without breaking a sweat, lasguns would have to get four crits and the marine no saves to score a kill. It's just not happening. Cover works harder for weaker saves, an auto 5+ is better for you than an auto 3+. And unless you have the ability to move through operatives as if they aren't there, you have to plan out the deployment of 14 bodies meticulously, so they do not bunch and prevent you being able to move where you need to. That's the nature of playing a horde style kill team, not being a bready faggot. I for one am glad so many people eschew vanilla marines in my area, marines are boring. Having said that, that is why I enjoy giving them a run out from time to time. Their play style is incredibly different.

>>93177578
I'd also add that as well as being reliable they are generally forgiving. The high wounds count, 3+ save, Legionaries have access to healing abilities, etc. You can make a mistake and unless it is walking into the barrel of a melta gun it is usually recoverable.

Brood Brothers don't have enough bodies for every single specialist, who should I miss out? I was going to say a single gunner, they are a bit ordinary next to all the other cool abilities that are floating about and I'd still have a plasma gunner and sniper. Thoughts?
>>93177537
Nae danger. I'm awake, will start scanning shortly.

>>93178812
looking at newrecruit if you make 3 gunners and 1 of each other specialist that should leave you with one spot for a generic warrior, so do that? Unless it's a Vet Guard issue where some builds contradict each other meaning two boxes is mandatory to build each specialist.

>>93178844
oops NEVERMIND not enough slots aha

>>93178844
Including two gunners (the most you can take with a sniper as well) there are 11 operatives, not including the warriors. The sprue has 10 models on it. So to repeat, who should I miss out?

I'm thinking about running a 40k RPG, but using Kill Team for the battles. The characters would be a mixed unit (Rogue Trader entourage or Inquisition team) so I'd allow any Imperium or some Xenos units. The battles will be run as co-op, with the players each controlling 1-2 characters. I'm thinking if they play an elite they get 1, if they're non-elite they get two (possibly 3 if they go for something really weak). But I'm still trying to get a handle on the scaling.

>>93179028
Check out the Acolyte homebrew (a google search should suffice), it's a hack for playing KT21 as agents of an inquisitor in PvE coop. It might be exactly what you're looking for, and even if it isn't, it should have some good ideas.

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Balance update

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/27/kill-team-balance-dataslate-download-the-new-updates-today/

>>93179541
Nothingburger.

Dead game, dead edition, dead thread.

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>>93179541
That's a MASSIVE buff, damn. Hunter just completely wrecks 12 wound models in combat now, and 10 operatives gives them the same wound count as fellgor on a 4+ save somewhat shooty team.

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>>93179541
I thought Scouts were in a pretty good place, 4/6 on combat blades AND another operative is great. I might have to see about getting a few more combat blade warriors, most of mine are on shotguns.
>>93179639
Why are you here then?

I've finished scanning Termination, it is 11.5mb though so I cannot upload here. I have already knocked back the quality as far as I can, options?

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Is a team of Legionaries with just the Undivided marks viable or do they need marks from other gods and their stratagems to win?

>>93179987
Just use Mega?

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>>93180075
You are heavily limiting yourself. The ability they get is vicious reavers, allowing a single reroll within pentagon. Hardly useful for a heavy bolter laying down fire from your deployment zone or a plasma gunner. You also only have two strat ploys and one tac ploy for undivided. I personally run Khorne and Nurgle for melee and ranged respectively. And always give my chosen undivided for his plasma pistol, plus free access to double fight or double shoot.

>>93179987
Catbox?

>>93179987
For temporary storage, ufile has been used in the past in these threads.

>>93180232
No registration wins.
>https://ufile.io/8arxi4zs

>>93180266
Thanks.

>>93179541
damn I didn't think scouts were that bad.
>>93180266
cool thanks

>>93180374
>I didn't think scouts were that bad
Everyone seems to think so.
My games with them they've felt rather good, haven't struggled at all. They can hit hard and have solid statlines, and one hell of a first turn potential.
All I know is they've apparently had dumpster numbers in tournaments, no idea why that is.

Also the scout newbies now hit harder with their knives than their veteran sergeant does with his chainsword. That's kinda wack. I know I'll be bringing the extra knife equipment for my hunter more in the future.

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>>93179541
noooooo

>>93179541
>scouts get another body
dope
now I'm starting to agree with
>muh kasrkin are bs3+
anon

>>93180266
Amazing my dude, thanks!

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Is KTDash any good, or am I just downloading another app that spies on me while I shit?

>>93181316
probably less than waha, it's made by spaniard KT autists

>>93181316
i don't use the app but the homepage is fine enought.

>>93180495
>>93180374
>>93179843
>>93179666
>>93181185
i heard that scouts haven't been selling well. i wonder if this is an attempt to move boxes

>>93181333
from the feeling scouts seemed fine but the tournament stats for scouts were quite bad.
it is the question if it's just a meta problem or if they are used by noobs to much or if they where really weak.
i guess the next few weeks will show.

>>93181333
>>93181373
I believe they're not selling well to 40k fans but are fine enough with KT, since in 40k they're kind of a redundancy

>>93181391
Yea scouts are not doing well in bighammer right now. most spacemarines over all seem bad and black templars and spacewolfs (that seem to be the best spacemarine chapters at the moment) don't make good use of them if at all.

>>93179666
Why the fuck are we giving power swords to scouts?

>>93181483
power swords usually have lethal

>>93181391
>>93181454
Wtf are you guys talking about, they're amazing in normal 40k right now especially with the change to actions. A unit that can basically teleport around the map at will is a god send right now.

>>93181695
well we talk about befor the patch.

Do you know what would make this game 10x better? Wandering hostile NPCs and monsters like in Frostgrave and Stargrave

>>93181984
Talk it up anon. How would it make it better?

>>93181984
Doesn't one of the campaign scenarios have a neutral third party enemy both teams are trying to capture?

>>93181984
>just include some additional major random elements so winning is even more luck based the game board gets smaller and the game takes longer with way more opportunitys to argue in a game full of competitive haters.
yea give me some snacks and a chair i go to the next tournement as a witness for the murder that's gonne happen.

>>93182063
there was a white dwarf scenario with a third faction "apprehend the prisoner"

>>93182053
It's fun, simple as. .. what moe reason do you need?

>>93182101
This is more so a problem with autistic losers (which warhammer seems to attract) and their behavioral issues than it would be about the rules

>>93182063
Which book?

>>93182101
>>93182132
That Scenario was for 3 Players not for an Npc-group. I don't think there are (official) Npc rules for Kill Team. Necromunda on the other hand has some barebones rules and the fanmade Acolyte adon for Kill Team has.

>>93182134
>It's fun, simple as
I disagree. Without the PvP aspect you might as well be playing a video game. I want to interact with my opponent, random shit happening to either my dudes or theirs detracts from that.

Like I said, talk it up. Convince me that you aren't just talking shit. Because currently >>93182101 sounds pretty spot on.

>>93182101
sry was meant for >>93182063

>>93181316
I use it all the time and think its great

>>93182166
Warcry has NPC rules. I wouldn't be surprised if the next edition brings more narrative stuff like WC.

>>93182440
I could see it in narrative games, like rules for two squads to take out dudes from a third as murderpoints, like maybe tyranids or similar.

>>93182283
Well than, your opinion is disregarded. I was willing to have a respectful conversation about it, but your inability to articulate why your idea would improve the game 1,000%, coupled with your shitty attitude shows that you have no clue what you are talking about. It's true, anonymity shows a person's true nature. I hope that your local gaming scene know what kind of a person you are, and avoid you.
>verification not required

>>93182440
I would like it (i play acolite for that reason) but the current main fanbase here would probably be upset for useless rules or "wrong efforts"

>>93182492
40k has/had something like that where the ammount of tyranid kills would determine the winner (the hunt for fellwyrm was it, i think)

>>93182508
Not reading all that cope

>>93182567
na me neither and i am on his side, befor that at least.

>>93182492
>>93182554
Sounds like Legolas and Gimli at Helms Deep and the Pelennor Fields. I could get into this for sure. Maybe each kill is a VP, eighteen npc operatives, no tac ops, being tabled does nothing.

>>93176379
Are scouts too powerful against arbites? Or is it kinda of a balanced matchup?

>>93182807
Is your first initial J? I reckon I know you, you play HotA and Kommandos too.
Scouts are pretty damn powerful ATM, now with serious melee power and an extra operative. Arbites are underwhelming, they lack much ranged firepower so keep them at a distance and you're laughing. Even then lack of access to many weapons with a damage above 4eams scouts can tank most damage done in a single fight or shoot, whilst putting out more.

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which bespoke boxed team (so not like hunter clade or wyrmblade) would you guys say take the most boxes to make a full team of? I feel like if it's not a one-boxer it's usually a two-boxer, but I'm curious if there's some sort of dreaded three-boxer.

>>93183093
Chaos Cult REQUIRES 3 boxes. Inquisitorial agents can be done in 2, but for a full 30 model roster you'll want 3 or even 4 boxes depending on setup. I bet you could even do 5 or 6 if you try.

>>93182668
Just that bigger targets got you more points in that scenario.

>>93181984
Inquisitorial agents can get super high
>2 inquisition boxes to get two servitors
>SoS to get anti-marine melee
>Breachers for general utility
>Veterans for more bodies
and that's what fits one one roster, you can add in kasrkin too, they've got their niches

>>93183204
That's the good thing, you can decide between you what you are hunting.

>>93183339
Well that was actually a remark to gimli and legolas "that still counts as one" comment if you know that scene.
But yes you are right high risk high reward or you wait until your enemy has softened the enemy an make a good old killsteal.

>>93183093
Chaos Cult is three boxes, blades of Khaine can be as many as four if you take six howling banshees, a dire avengers and a striking scorpion. This is not an optimal build though, just a thinking exercise to get as many boxes as possible. Inquisition is at least two, but can take thirty operatives in a roster for narrative or matched play. Seven Inquisitorial agents, five Sister of Silence, five Kasrkin, six breachers, six vet guardsmen is five boxes and a totally legal roster to take to a tournament.

>>93183410
I got it, don't worry. In fact what you said makes sense, certain rules allow for more rewards from higher wound operatives (HotA pain tokens, etc)

>>93183093
warp coven needs 2-3
>exalted sorcs
>rubrics
>tzaangors

>>93183093
Void dancer requires 1 box + 2 characters minimum unless you want to fill out a whole roster of options

>>93183844
>>93184145
He said bespoke boxes teams.

>>93183093
Really just Blades of Khaine, Inquisition, and if you count them Chaos Cult (which is arguable that they're the equivalent of a WD team). Blades doesn't really require more than one box but if you want to more competitive then it does. Inquisition is by default a two box team but doesn't require a third unless like the other anon said you want to fill out a whole roster.

>>93183255
What breachers/vetguard/kasarkin would you recommend taking for Inquisition.

>>93184943
breachers:
grenadier, endurant, lasvolley (or plasma if map is open enough that you don't want to take the pistolier), surveyor, axejack, hatchcutter
vetguard:
demo, grenade, sniper, hardened, comms, medic
kasrkin:
grenade, hotshot, comms,recon, sniper, though maybe the hotshot can be replaced with a medic, and the sniper for a plasma, while taking the heavy bolter servitor.

>>93184943
>>93186197
You Kasrkin loadouts isn't legal, you cannot take more than two gunner or sharpshooter operatives combined. Take the combat medic and drop either the sharpshooter, grenade launcher or volley, depending on preference. They are all really much of a muchness, able to do long range damage and still be mobile.

Also, never give up the plasma cannon. Even with heavy and apl1 unless being baby sat, the blast is too valuable to not take. Stick to AP1 stuff with auxiliaries, the AP2 in the inquisition is just better.

>>93176379
>TQ
Every Deathwatch operative can select 2 abilities for himself from the list of Intercession Squad chapter tactics.

So it works very similar to Marks of Chaos mechanics, but much more flexible, as it should be for such team as Deathwatch.

>>93187794
>Stick to AP1 stuff with auxiliaries, the AP2 in the inquisition is just better.
that is only true of the servitor, pistolier is outshined by a more long range plasma gunner if the map is open enough

>>93181984
This would unironically be a lot of fun, but KT players are mostly autistic and enjoy competitive meta and rules lawyering, not fun. These think this board game is a competitive Esport

>>93189668
Double shoot action and a plasma pistol that can get unlimited range is tasty though. Also one gun has silent so she can hide. I'd rather have that than a plasma gun. Apart from anything else, it's more interesting than ANOTHER gunner.

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>>93181984
closest we have is the white dwarf map effects.

>>93183021
I’m am not that person. Good to know though.

>>93189799
What white dwarf is this?

>>93192206
December 2023 White Dwarf

I got a box of Kasrkin for birthday, i heard they are one of the weakest teams currently. Are they still playable or is the struggle real?

>>93193236
if you know how to use them they auto win agaist elites, otherwise, they just got a good buff a while ago, don't let kasrknfag lead you astray, they are great.

>>93193236
>Are they still playable or is the struggle real?
They're generally the most dogshit non-Compendium team. If you want to have fun with the models, I suggest playing them as Compendium Imperial Guard Tempestus Scions instead.

Any idea's for a Skaven themed Brood Brothers kitbash? Need suggestions for a suitable Patriarch model (size & dimensions etc.)

>>93193687
patriarch is around 80mm (or 3 inch) high and has a 50mm base, no idea about skaven model thought.

>>93193687
genestealer bodys with skitarii tech and skaven arms/heads seems rather space skaven like. a grey seer on a mini ratogryn or just a verminlord seems rather fine ideas?

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>>93192206
495

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here's what I'd do for a REAL darktide kill team
>Mourningstar Crew
Rannick, Zola, and 2 of each player class. The Inquisitors can issue commands to the Convicts to buff them and Convicts themselves can recover some health by fighting. Though the named characters have fixed loadouts, the Convicts are much more customizable in their gear.
>Scabs (Mobian 6th)
1 Scab Captain with 5 specialist troopers and a bunch of dregs & zombies as cannon fodder. Different from Blooded in that they lean on the defensive and get tougher as enemies and fodder allies die, though the six elites run the risk of getting knocked out

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>>93193875
Skaven lord on a palanquin might just do it. Now I kind of wanna do this with a hand of the archon team with skaven assassins. Really brings me back to my mordheim days.

Joining a KT narrative campaign as a new player. I get to pick one team, and that's it (for starters), no extra bodies on the roster. I wanted to go vet guard because their rules are easy to understand, and I left out the spotter because he seems tricky to use really effectively. Ditto for the commandant, mucho texto on those rules. Is this a good starting list?

>Sargeant with plasma pistol and power sword
>Demo
>Comms
>Melta gun
>Plasma gun
>Grenade launcher
>Medic
>Hardened
>Sniper
>4 troopers
>Zealot (I get one piece of rare equipment to start out, using litany of sacrifice to negate crits seems really strong)

>>93195506
First of you hate much text but you take the demo , what???
Even if you completly ignore the spotter's spotter action, look at the weapons he has, i would reccomend taking him, and if the enemy has a sniper on a good spot he is more or less your only way to get rid of him other then running up on him.
Taking that rare equipment, i don't recomment it, it may seem strong but costs 3 EP and 1AP to use especially on a model with an active abillity to begin with you will have problems moving him in any position to use them and constantly have to ignore one of them, not to mention i think the zealot isn't worth it. On that note in normal games medic would not be worth it either but in narrative play he gets a bit more worth so not sure.
Not taking the confidant is arguably but he is usually worth it,
The demo can be strong but he is hard to set up properly.

>>93194482
Perosnally i would use the mechanics and the poxwalker for a drag team instead.
for the scab better use the ogryns (would fit better thematically i guess) so basically blooded just more an elite team with mawler granade gunner 3flavor ogryns rager trapper and whatever i forgot.

>>93193324
This.
>>93193386
Not this.

>>93194039
>square isn't blue
This hurts me in my autism.

>>93195506
Terrible. The CONFIDANT and spotter are amazing, GA2 with the confidant stacked with combined arms on the plasma gun deletes tough targets. As >>93197197
Said, the spotter is your concealed sniper killer, even setting aside his other abilities.

If you are getting into combat with the guard you're doing it wrong. Drop the hardened. The Zealot's ability requires people around him to stay still, at which point you aren't capturing objectives, drop him.

No idea of rare equipment as I have not run vet guard in a narrative campaign so have never had access to any.

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>>93195506
As vet guard you always take:
1 Stg with plasma pistol and power weapon
2 Demo
3 Sniper
4 plasma gunner
5 melta gunner
6 granade launcher gunner
7 spotter
8 comms
9 confidant (80% matchups you want chainsword + pistol, 20% you want ranged option)
Then the choice is between medic, flamer and hardened. Medic is good if enemy is a shooting team but he doesn't work vs melee. Flamer is good vs teams with team wide inv save like mandrakes or harlequins. Hardened is a good tank for stealing middle objectives early and then receiving punishment.
The rest is not usable, you're going to handicap yourself by taking others.

When it comes to confidant, there are 3 main ways to use it:
- vs non elites give him a krak granade and set him up with melta for turn 2. When turn 2 comes you activate him and melta together and delete 2 enemy operatives in one activation.
- vs elites you set him up with melta or plasma. You activate him, shot at enemy dude and then shot with the gunner at the same enemy dude. Because you already shot at that enemy you can now use tactical ploy to give your gunner full rerolls.
-on ITD you can activate confidant, run up to the door and open it, then you can activate someone else and shot through that door before the enemy has time to react.

Good feedback on my vet guard list, thank you all. I still think I'm going to run it as-is. Not that interested in the confidan'ts GA2 ability to set up Combined Arms, I think vet guard has more interesting ploys to use CP on. Combining take aim + overcharge lasguns for AP1 shots with 0 chance of triggering Hot, Into the Breach on TP1 to rush up the board, keeping one of my killing models alive for an activation with In Death Atonement, and so on.

I have thought about swapping out the medic for the confidant or spotter, but I expect to die a lot and re-rolling a failed casualty test seems really good.

Generally speaking, I want my team to be really aggressive, using into the breach and move, move, move to rush up the board for objectives and any good cover spots. Keep my leader, comms, demo, and probably the GL in the center, setting up for the GL to move dash and shoot on TP1, then a 3 APL demo rush in TP2. Use my zealot to shield the sniper and melta gun from crits as they push up one side of the board, pair up my medic and plasma on the other with the hardened alongside. Basically usin movement ploys, conceal orders, defensive buffs and cover to position aggressively onto objectives while staying safe and setting up for lots of TP2 shooting.

TP2, overcharge lasguns, take aim, try to shoot down as many key enemies as possible. Use the zealot to give either the melta or the sniper Lethal 5+ if possible.

TP 3+4, react to whatever my opponent does, try to play for tac ops and mission objectives. Use hold position, litany of sacrifice, and ploys to keep models on the field. Basically I think I can win by synchronizing my strategy for the whole team each turning point, that's what guardsmen orders seem to be for. Every time my opponent burns an APL to target one of my guys and doesn't score a kill, I'm that much closer to winning, so the hardened, medic, and zealot all feel like good choices.

>>93199821
Sure thing play like you think you have the most fun especially if you play narrative.
Take aim is an order it dioesn't need CP (if your leader dies the confidant would be the one issuing that order if yo don't have him the orders are gone) combined arms works with everyone else costs cp and is used if you can't order take aim or want another order more.
If you like to reroll failed casuality tests maybe get the Diagnosticator instead of the litany, it heals more and you can reroll two rolls after the battle.
But like i sayed narrative or casual play just do what you feel is the coolest. it is not like you can't change some things later.

>>93199821
I don't think the anti-crit aura is going to be very helpful; at best it'll save a point of damage in most cases. It might save you from a single bolter shot (might), but anything trying to actually kill you will do so in one shot. The setup it requires will also leave you exposed for quite a while before you can activate it. KT21 is a very lethal game, expect your guardsmen to be gone after a single shot even when in cover and in the aura.

>living metal once again goes before reanimation
I’m afraid I won’t be playing it that way.

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>>93201306
Ah ha, but you see now it can happen either before OR after
Because for some reason they just entirely deleted the language which actually specified one other the other. So now its up to whoever had initiative in the previous turn

>>93202182
Yea in general that rule makes sense but in context of necrons it feels quite stupid to not specify that and even worse half the time have the enemy decide.

>>93201306
Living metal after reanimation was super powerful, good rolling saw dead model basically back to full health. In a four turn game, that incredibly powerful.

I've playing the Hierotek circle once and got tabled, they are crazy tough.

>>93202392
Jesus, I must be more tired than I realised. That reads like barely passable English from someone in the middle east...

>>93202392
It is 2 wounds difference on a 10/12/13 wound model (and with it at best he gets up with 7wounds without it 5) wile i agree that it is nothing to scoff at it is not THAT much difference like you make it sound. Over the course of the game it can make quite the impact doing so multiple times with luck a complete operative worth of wounds. The real question here is it balanced overall in the team not being in the top 5 winrates the last few month and befor that being one of the worst bespoke teams suggests they need that buff.

>>93202547
>it is not THAT much difference like you make it sound
Even 1 wound can be gigantic when it's the difference between being injured or not, or an enemy weapon requiring a single hit or two hits to kill, or a single crit to kill, etc.

>>93202902
Yea EVERYTHING can be gigantic in a specific situation but if you have around 75 wounds on the table, 2 aren't that much. (and even if you have one million wounds on the table one wound can decide the game, but the chances for that)

>>93203183
>specific situation
3/4 is the most common damage profile in the game, 7 wounds vs 5 is gigantic. Hell a chainsword is also very common and kills in one crit at 5 and is going to get stabbed in return at 7.

>>93203183
KT is very much a game where only the last wound counts. no one gets bracketed.
fail to understand this and you will fail at KT

>>93203183
I don't know how someone can be interested in wargames without being interested in the numbers or game design at all

How come that i get flamed from you guys if no one of you is able to see the bigger picture. It is all a question of statistics, options and overall balancing from the team. Having dozens of factors and decisions, havin to shoot the enemy 20 time instead of 19 to kill makes a difference like i already sayed its nothing to scoff at but statistically it isn't big. Not to mention that like i sayed end of last year start this year hoierotec winrates where LOW and after they changed that they where better midde lesser top. You lads pretend like i sayed it is nothing.

>>93204788
Yes that's true but rolling one less crit havin a weaker weapon or one more sucessful trick can give a similar outcome.

>>93204968
>no one gets bracketed
Completly forgets Injured.
I understand what you mean but like i sayed the bigger picture....

>>93205205
seems like i just have a different viewpoint here

>>93206050
Said*

No one is flaming you, maybe >>93205205 a bit but otherwise they are disagreeing with you. Two wounds absolutely makes a difference, there is a reason that Intercession kill teams often take Unyielding for an extra wound. It isn't insignificant, and you are taking about operatives getting back up with a minimum of five wounds, AND then potentially healing another two each turning point. It costs 0CP, happens on a 2+ and if you roll a one you can try next turning point.

It is powerful, too powerful. Tournament win rates are not a good metric to determine if a team is under/over powered. They are full of WAAC players who take whatever is most powerful. The fact that they are suddenly performing so well isn't because those few players taking them are suddenly seeing the benefit of their buff, it is their buff has made them too powerful and anyone determined to win is now running them.

>>93207103
>No one is flaming you
yea maybe i overreacted there a bit i just woke up there.

>It is powerful
I don't deny that i only say it is not too powerful (on it's own, nothing is if the rest of the team stats7rules are bad, not that i say hierotec is bad just we need to see those rules in relation to the rest).

Hierotec is not run that much in torunaments (they are barely in the top ten if at all) and the winrates went up because of the last patch where the healing came after the ressurection (befor that it didn't) and that reanimation triggers on a 2+, that is why the winrate went up, if now it is dependent on who had initiative it seems to swingy (for my taste, i would like it even if reanimation triggers afterwards just make it be the same each round adn then look for the rest of the balance).
That winrates are not a good measurement is understandable but still one of the best we seem to have.
And not all units just can make reanimation just like that (even if it is rare they can't) and good placed melee units can prevent reanimating completly (even if that is quite rare as well).

>>93207527
Damn brood brothers really are powerful.
a whole edition designing teams with a few gunners and a bunch of jobbers, only to say "yeah, having our base gun be a 3/4 bolter equivalent with a 1AP strat is fine"

>>93211935
oops didn't mean to reply

>>93206050
>seems like i just have a different viewpoint here
Your viewpoint is just objectively wrong. It's concrete math. The game designers even talk about how important single wounds are for breakpoints in the metawatch videos when teams will gain or lose 1 wound on certain operatives. You aren't pouring fire into a team wide health pool, a 1 wound operative hanging around to nuisance charge or loot a point very often determines the game.

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>>93207527
don't just trust us, plug in some #s to https://jmegner.github.io/KT21Calculator/
you'll see there are breakpoints for a given weapon at different wounds. vs an astartes shotgun, 8 wounds is a 46% kill chance. 9 (to 12!) wounds is a 14% kill chance. just that 1 wound makes a huge difference in survivability, but the next 3 do nothing.

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A small group at my LGS is really into KT18. Can someone explain their mindset?

>>93213221
>>93214213
>It's concrete math
Yes exaclty BUT you are always looking at individual situations and i am well aware that one point can make a huge difference, it also happens that it does not at all.
Maybe you use a stronger weapon, maybe you roll one more/less crit, maybe he fails/wins one more save, maybe you just shoot once more with a weak gun, maybe you take a hit back instead, maybe he survives and heals again next round, maybe he doesn't stand up at all, maybe he does with 5 or 6 or 7 wounds, maybe you just ignore him because he is now to slow to get to a good position, maybe you just throw a weak operative against him to stall time and prevent shooting.
There are so many action that can or can not change the game. A game is the summ of it's parts. If your opponent can't make that one point worth it or you can just make it "make no difference" then it is useless. BUT HERE I SAYED IF so i am well aware that you not always can.

>>93216042
Can have multiple reasons.The most common reasons are:
They like listbuilding and/or exploiting that.
They have models and want to play models that are not in the current KT.
they know the rules and don't want to learn new ones and have some nostalgia for the game.
They want "your dudes" and don't feel that from the new kill team because they are pre designed.
Rare but happens, they like the rules better.

>>93216051
Said. The word is said. "Sayed" is not a word.

>>93216194
Say that to the google translator he sais that word indeed exists and means the same and is supposed to be Englisch.

>>93216243
Says*
English*

>>93216042
Because it’s a more fun and better game that is less WAACfag oriented than KT21. This edition is also dominated generally by a feverish mental illness attitude so maybe that turned them off.

>>93216249
Yea sry i am Dyslexic (was testet) and ESL (Englisch means English in German)
But unironically just correct me sometimes i really learn (not to long ago i constantly wrote shure instead of sure) and google translator doesn't always help.

>>93216051
clearly we won't convince you, and you're always allowed to play the way you want.
but, during your next few games, do consider how an extra point of damage or an extra wound might've changed the outcome of an activation, TP, or even the match.

>>93218043
And you consider in how many situations an extra point of damage or an extra wound would NOT have changed the outcome of an activation, TP, or even the match.

>>93193687
>Need suggestions for a suitable Patriarch model (size & dimensions etc.)
Stormfiend with a grey seer or warlock engineer riding it

I played my first game against the scouts since their bump from the balance dataslate. That is the worst loss I have ever had, 11-1 to my opponent.

God damn scouts are crazy now. Two hits in combat with a combat blade kills a Corsair, compared to needing a crit and a hit to kill a scout. They also now outnumber corsairs by one.

GW have very much overcompensated the scout's perceived weakness, combat blades do more damage than a chainsword. Coupled with three decent shooting operatives and potent ploys, they might be one of the strongest teams currently.

>>93176379
Do the orange kill team boxes for individual teams include tokens and unit cards? (like they are included with the big sets?)

>>93218534
No.

>>93218534
they're cheap on ebay

>>93219038
I will have to look into that.
But i could have thought as much myself i guess. Why would GW give them away for "free"

>>93219049
the sheet they come on doesn't fit into the box, and lots of people buy/own multiple KTs so more tokens are just waste of material, ink, space, shipping costs, and fixing misprints

>>93219096
They only started to include the unit cards and tokens this season. I have none from the Octarius box or the Into the Dark-season boxes i have.

>>93219096
>oh some added value to our overpriced plastic?
>Noooo just imagine how inconvenient that would be

>>93219096
>fixing misprints
This is why they made their tac op deck s OOP, a card was misprinted and they caught shit for it.

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I've got the Bheta Decima infiltration set up for a new narrative campaign. A nice mix of teams, I'm looking forward to seeing how people manoeuvre around the board. Hazards didn't feel like a big thing reading the rules but they could end up making a huge difference.

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>>93214213
Nta but holy shit does real life not mimic the math, at least in my favor
>kabalite gunner with blaster shoots deathguard warrior
Pic related
>death guard warrior shooting my kabalite gunner with bolter
Math says around 18% or so to kill, except it's usually 2 kills for them with bolter discipline and DR washes away 80% of damage. I'm starting to think it's my dice.

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Anyone got a scan of Soulshackle's Exaction Squad or the pdf?

Looking to make some printouts to keep in a binder so I'm not looking at my phone during a match.

>>93223857
lmao nerf gun
I actually like it

Currently giving thoughtful names to all of my guardsmen so I feel it more when they inevitably die every turning point

>>93222433
What dice are you using? Once rolled 140,000 Games workshop dice and recorded the results. He should have got a one 17.88.% of the time, it was 30%.

Casinos specifically used perfectly Square dice with all faces smooth, without without divots cut in the sides to show the number. They are statistically perfect, where is the shitty rounded dice that you get in board games (and GW produce) will roll a one almost a third of the time.

In 7th edition each space marine first founding chapter had a little tube of dice, they roll much better.

>>93225296
Made the same, had fun, didn't play for two weeks, forgot who is who and ignored it.

>>93221422
Have fun, tell us your opinion later and somehighlights of the battles.

>>93225636
>>93225296
"No, those bastards killed Rusty! He was my favorite."
"Actually, I'm right here Sarge. You know I never knew you cared so much. I'm touched."
"Ah. There you are. Quit dicking around Rusty and get in there to secure the point!"

Are elites completely outgunned now? There is an intercessors chapter tactic that can still make a difference?

>>93227898
>Are elites completely outgunned now?
yes
>[Is there] an intercessors chapter tactic that can still make a difference?
going durable hardy might be worth with so much damage is going around, but it will not be enough

Are there any printable versions of the data cards, ploys etc for Kill Team?

>>93228164
>[Is there]
Been saying like that for years but i had no idea it was wrong, unironically thanks

>>93176889
I care. Glad you do. Please continue having fun. Well painted team by the way.

>>93228165
Not official ones. They shouldn't be hard to make though.

>>93225683

They're Death Korps, so they're all named "Trooper XXXXX" except for the Watchmaster. Some of them are numbers like the area code of the Trinity test site, or the Raven Rock nuclear bunker. But my favorite is the Demo vet: Trooper 54321 :p

>>93228165
KT Dash I think, I used that to make my own printable mini cards

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When are they gonna drop individual kits for the four new teams?

>>93230538
3 months after the box release like it has been for the last 3 years
(Except HoTA)

I'm looking to get the Gallowdark Terrain to work on over the summer. Just how bad are the connections, is it worth magnetising it and if so are there any good guides on how that's done?

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>>93230597
>Except HoTA
That was such a huge fuck you. First I got fucked out of my pre-order for Soul Shackle, and then they delayed the goddamn individual release for 6 months, even though they Arbites got released after only 3.

>>93230641
That’s because arbites are very popular.

>>93230599
There are guides, i don't think it is worth it, the main problem are the "hats" that you put on the pillars, if you don't sand them down a bit on the inside it is near impossible to get the off without damaging paintjob or more and if you sand of to much they don't hold properly.

>>93230599
My biggest complaint about the Gallowdark terrain is it takes half as long as the actual game to get the damn parts broken down and reassembled properly.

I have the 2023 annual and the compendium. Any other books I really need?

>>93231856
maybe some white dwarfs

>>93225315
Yea its just some shit flgs set with colors I liked. I'd love a set of real dice some day.

>>93232642
If it can happen, it will happen at some point. But I'd like to point out that I seem to roll crits way more often than my opponents and I use statistically balanced dice. I don't think this is cheating, they aren't unfairly weighted. It's just that most people don't care to look into such things and my best friend used to work as a croupier dealing craps in casino. I've always used the same dice, but when she told me about this my rolls being better on average than my opponents made a lot more sense.

It's still strictly better to play Legionaries (Nurgle) than Death Guard compendium right? I saw something about Warpcoven being decent now so maybe DG got some love too, even if I didn't get that impression after checking Wahapedia.

>>93237984
The compendium was designed to get everyone playing until their faction got their own bespoke rules. Apart from a few initial buffs to teams that were obviously not balanced, no updates will ever happen. Having said that, DG are still very playable. taking mono nurgle marks with the legionnaires is not the best way to play them and they have no FnP. Plus no access to unique weapons DG have.

Nice doin man finally normal shit that ain’t racist on 4chan for fucking day

>>93231250
The caps can be popped off with a pry tool, but if you're really worried about the paintjob, light sanding on the pillars should work.0nsgk

>>93238602
Works for me then, thanks. I just need to get myself an Icon Bearer and I'm set.

>>93238602
>No updates will ever happen
I was hoping that they would get redone in the 3rd edition. But how would you fix compendium teams? Many I think if played more would play to the low 40's, Deathguard, Imperial guard, Forgeworld, hell Warpcoven. It's super hard to say without a lot more play, but how many teams could be 'fixed' by upping them a warrior? I'd watch to see it.

>Question: do you think Elite teams are going to stick at 6 units in Kill Team the 3rd? I could see Seven or Eight units for elites against pretty standard 10+ unit teams and 14 unit hordes.

>>93241051
>But how would you fix compendium teams?
stealth suits become only fireteam, are 1 drone per suit insteadr of 2 drones instead of a suit, free mission action equipment is every turn instead of once a battle.
Echlesiarchy: Whenever more than half of your operatives have been removed from the killzone and the fourth turning point has been reached, you may activate the Beacon of Faith ability: When the beacon of faith ability is activated, for every operative, you can choose to either regain 5 wounds, or that operative may strike with a normal hit before the attacker the next time it fights in combat.
Custodes: when an operative is in engagement range of a SoS model, worsen the Ballistic Skill and Weapon Skill characteristics of ranged and melee weapons respectively that enemy operative is equipped with as if it were injured. This is not cumulative with the creeping dread stratagem.
Grey Knights: just add 2 wounds.
Heavy Intercessors: free mission action.
Deathwatch: New ability "specialized": double claw models gain Reivers keyword, warriors gain incursor, sargent gains infiltrator.
Chaos Daemons: ability "warp fluctuation": keep a pool of leftover equipment points, at the start of every turning point, you gain 2 ep and may add equipment to your team from this pool.
Traitor Space Marines: new tactical ploy, cruelty (0CP): Deal 2 MW to every cultist within 1 of a traitor space marine: for every cultist wounded this way, improve the damage characteristic of weapons equipped by this marine, and melee weapons equiped by the cultists by 1 until the end of the turning point.
Death Guard: new ploy viral instinct (1CP): Until the end of the turning point, Poxwalkers gain 2 movement when charging, or if they activate within 3 of a plague marine, they gain 2 movement and can perform mission actions for 1 APL. (movement can't go higher than 6)
Brood Coven: remove neophytes, Army ability: models that activate outside of vision of every enemy model gain 1 movement.

>>93241804
Tomb World: Delete (max one per kill team) for the necron warrior fireteam, add "if your team includes only necron warrior and necron flayers fireteams, and it does not have another leader, instead of selecting one NECRON WARRIOR operative for one NECRON WARRIOR fire team, you can select one ROYAL WARDEN operative and three SCARABS operatives (ROYAL WARDEN has the same stats and abilites as the DESPOTEK operative (see Hierotek Circle), but he might select a NECRON WARRIOR or a NECRON FLAYER for it's demand ability) (SCARABS operatives have the same stats and abilities as eyestinger swarm operatives (see Gellarpox Infected)). Change the Flayed One fireteam to "If your kill team does not include any other LEADER operatives, instead of selecting one FLAYED ONE WARRIOR operative for one FLAYED ONE fire team, you can select one FLAYED ONE LEADER operative, or instead of selecting two FLAYED ONE WARRIOR operatives for one FLAYED ONE fire team, you can select one CHRONOMANCER operative." (same stats as heirotek circle, minus Magnification Conduit ability) (This is to allow use of the 9th recruit kit and the kill team arena kits)

Greenskin: New Ploy: assist reload (1CP), until the end of the turning point, gretchin can perform the following action for 1 AP. Assist reload: improve the ballistic skill of an ork within 1 by 1 until the end of the turning point.
Replace the sentence "A SPESHULIST fire team includes four SPESHULIST operatives selected from the following list:" with "A SPESHULIST fire team includes a SPANNER SPECHULIST (loses the leader keyword if there are other LEADER operatives) and three SPESHULIST operatives selected from the following list:". If a team includes any gretchin operatives it gains the infiltration archetype. (remove the kommandos fireteam)

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I think a kill team season taking place in an active hive city would be cool as shit. Like season start, bunch of freakos & sneaky gits are fighting in the streets & shops, hivers are like "huh who are these shitasses" then as the season goes on and more teams fight through the hive it turns from small scale skirmishes to a full on invasion and shit hits the fan. A mix of indoor & outdoor fights with some buildings you can just pop the top off and play inside. Boxed sets include more ruined hive terrain, all compatible with gallowdark. Standout teams include the hiver elites & their retinue of goons, underhive shcum with mutated beasties, hacker tau, and rules for necromunda

>>93242084
*necromunda gangs I mean.

this game needs way more streamlining, holy shit. I thought it would be like 2h but it was over an hour until anyone activated a model

>>93242092
...how???

>>93242098
It was my first game and I was playing scouts.
this is gonna be a tough sell to anyone who isn't really into autistic tier tactical combat. if I didn't fit that bill, I would've been really turned off by what I experienced today

Am I the only one that thinks that new teams have way too much rules? That's why I think compendium teams are fun, the teams there are just honest. But every model in the bespoke team has to be a special fucking snowflake with anime like ass pull abilities. My friend brought mandrakes for the first time and we had to spend like 40 minutes before the game to just read and wrap our heads about all the bullshit they have got.

>>93242558

I agree. Not all bespoke teams are like that though. Hunter Clade, Vet Guard, Kommandos, Legionnaires, and plenty of others feel like they're in the right spot for me. Straightforward abilities that make the faction feel thematic. When I'm playing vet guard, I feel like I'm leading a squad of soldiers, as opposed to playing my dudes' abilities like they belong to some meta broken MTG deck or multiclassing ThatGuy TTRPG PC. Give me a few good ploys and abilities that make the team feel like what it's supposed to be, without bogging me down.

Problem is, you have to keep making new teams to sell models and keep the game fresh, and after a while it's hard to make up mechanics that feel new and interesting, rather than "make X guy better at Y thing for one turning point" with different flavor text. The same thing happened in League of Legends for me, I lost interest as the constant flood of new champions felt like needless bloat after a few years.

S-surely the forthcoming new edition will fix everything, and by everything I mean they'll make my demo vet's remote mine blast 3 again and I'll call GW geniuses of game design for the rest of my life. You can keep the 1 use per game and the no blasting through heavy terrain thing, that's fine, just let me nuke hordes again plsss

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>>93242173
there's a reason why intercessors are the designated beginner team. In a way >>93242558 is right in that there is some rules bloat with a few teams. Also, maybe learn your team before playing.
>>93242760
I personally enjoy how Imperial Navy Breachers have a team ability that doubles as a Gallowdark Superbuff. Better saves against damage spreading attacks works in all situations but the fact that it specifically calls out the ones that got stronger in Indoor combat is really neat.

>>93242173
>first game
>playing scouts
That'll drag it out for sure, considering scouts are the only team in the game with that intensive of a pre-game.
The setup tends to take a while, but once you and your opponent gets used to it it should take significantly less. Not counting the map setup I can get through setup in maybe 20 minutes.

>>93242098
>>93242092
>>93242760

same thing happened to me and my brother for our first game on our kitchen table.

he had kommandos and I had the 10 vet guard from the started set. it did take us a while before anybody moved a model and the whole thing took like 4 hours. games did speed up considerably afterward and since none of us fully undersood the terrain/LoS/obscuring rules we just used common-sense house rules.

Tldr: it's your first game and the learning curve is indeed tough but it gets better IME

>vet guard in the right spot
as much as I found the DKOK models boring and had a bad time painting them, I kind of miss using them from my first game. Their orders and ploys were straightforward They really felt like a team swarming up the board. they're a straightforward go-go-go team and it feels fun. I've used intercession and legionaries once each and while they are also p straightforward, vet guard feels more rewarding and engaging. don't get wrong, it's still fun to charge, fight, shoot, or double fight and double shoot with SM. i remember pissing off my brother with nurgle mark on my wounded plasma gunner.

>>93242558
>>93242794
I am usually able to pick up rules on the fly just fine - I was already familiar with the basic rules, but is was a level of overload where each team is its own board game. I feel like I need to study up BOTH teams before my next game.

>>93242928
>>93243291
I'm in a lil league now so I'll stick it out but man KT24 or 25 needs to strike a better balance. I love so much of the rule set but it's bogged down by so much added weight

>>93242558
Definitely agree, compendium should be updated with minimal buffs so we can have at least a few simple yet viable teams.

>>93244468
This doesn't sell models.

>>93244676
the fuck you mean, having a compendium death guard team means people who like death guard will buy death guard models, and play with them.

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Finished a test model.

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>>93245113
And got started on the rest.

>>93244715
Incorrect. When the compendium released it's sole purpose was to allow 40k players to use their current models to play Kill Team straight away without having to buy Octarius. Once people had fun playing the game they would be more likely to pick up their favourite faction when it gets a Kill Team release. The compendium is the equivalent of a dealer giving out free samples to potential customers. Getting players engaged with the models they already own drives sales with future releases.

Realistically, anyone starting Kill Team from scratch now is hardly going to look at the Compendium for teams, they'll be trawling through the teams that are unique, with cool new sculpts and thematic rules such as Tac Ops, narrative play rules, bespoke ploys, etc. Death Guard are one of the rare teams that have not had a bespoke release, and even that is not quite true as you can take all Nurgle marks with Legionaries. No one is playing Craft World, they're playing Blades of Khaine. No one is using Tomb World, they are using Hierotek Circle. If you think anyone is playing green skins over Kommandos, you're delusional. Maybe they MIGHT start out with those compendium teams as they already have the models for 40k, but if they decide to play Kill Team regularly, they're upgrading. And the Compendium generates another sale without the team having to pay attention to it's rules.

>>93245113
>>93245125
I like it, especially the contrasting green glow and red shoulder pad to the drab armour and fatigues. Drill your barrels though, and base them.

How does nemesis play, are they actually sneaky? Can i reskin them as world eaters or it's gonna look stupid?

>>93246245
>How does nemesis play
march forward, avoiding damage naked-snake-on-a-wall style
>are they actually sneaky?
in the sense that you often can't shoot them when you feel you should
>Can i reskin them as world eaters or it's gonna look stupid?
They are melee enough that you'll do fine. you already have a full melee fighter operative and 3 operatives with chainweapons, just equip a knive on the plasma gunner and they'll play very WE-like.

new fred
>>93246565
>>93246565
>>93246565