>>96977659
I don't know the trench crusade lore but like most fantasy setting that have demon-worshippers, they were probably swayed by honeyed lies and promises of great rewards in this life or the next if they fight for their demonic lord.

>>96977659
>have proof heaven and god are real

No proof heaven is real and there's no proof of the actual nature of god just that they exist.

>>have chance to fight for him and humanity for guaranteed heaven

Not guaranteed

>instead chose to fight for literal hell just to doom your soul regardless of outcome

They have no way of knowing other or not their soul is doomed regardless of whether they fight for hell or not

What you're doing right now is just failing the sally-anne test and conflating us as the reader's meta-knowledge of the setting with what a random guy in the setting knows.

reading through the TC lore I felt like a strong bias towards the Hell side, even though the good side should be equally as strong or even stronger (after 800 years of conflict with proof of divine interventions people would naturally flock towards it)

>>96977699
to be fair though after 800 years they really didn't gain that much ground except MENA

Having this same conversation for the millionth time is sure to yield many new and profound insights.

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>>96977703
i wouldn't know I just got into this setting like 5 days ago

>>96977659
>a third of humanity is this retarded?
Only a third?

>>96977855
I've read a third serve the heretics

>>96977659
the bad guys are muslims and niggers who worship the devil

>>96977699
Yeah it's a grimdark setting, the bad guys should be growing in power

>>96977892
Congrats on making the faggiest post on 4chan.

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>>96977659
The faithful don't get fetuses as a part of their kit. Idk why you'd want to go to war without one.

>>96977897
the creator already said that humans aren't destined to lose its not THAT grimdark

>>96977659
TC is fucking stupid and nosense, 100% aesthetic 0% thought.

>>96977699
Truly curious, where do you see bias toward Hell? Examples?

>>96977659
There are many reasons why people turn to demon worship despite believing in God as also being real. People seek demons for power and because they are evil themselves. Non-evil demon worshipers sometimes just think divine beings are also evil, "but at least the demons are honest about being evil". I dunno about this setting, but the situation in OP is not far fetched at all.

>>96978008
>they are evil themselves
true, in TC you need to be as evil as possible to even get into the hell army, but are there really that many evil people around
fuck...

>>96977659
>have proof heaven and god are real
What are you talking about? There were dozens of huge countries like Mexico that ignored the Scam of Ultimate Heresy entirely and nothing happened, they experienced no mass demons and didn't require armies and had no catastrophe.
Some US states didn't play along either and called the bluff of your mass hysteria nonsense, and has zero consequences as well, like Florida.

I spend Fall of Man years in south america and africa in 'hell' countries and everyone considered it an insane chinese and european mass delusion that was laughable.
There is no such thing as a 'Great War' that only affects people who believe in it. You are and idiot, you will forever be an idiot, and lots of people will forever remember that you humiliated yourself in this way and will never trust you again.

/thread

>>96977659
Heaven doesn't want you gooning to niche fetish porn. That alone forbids probably a fifth of this website from salvation. If you're unwilling to compromise and thus already damned, why not take up arms on the 0.0001% chance you'll succeed and ascend into the demonic courts?

>>96977892
Trvthnvke

>>96978115
Salvation is grace by faith, anon. Not of works. So none may boast.

>shill thread
Stop using religion to sell your trashy cashgrab

>>96978754
schizo

>>96977659
because the entire business case for this setting was just "wow random artstation pictures cool" and unsurprisingly it turns to shit the second it gets lore

>>96977689
>and there's no proof of the actual nature of god
Allah didn't rise up a giant ass wall for no reason.

>>96977659
>a key point of the faith is humanity is naturally wicked at their core and needs to actively seek out salvation
>wtf why are humans wicked
Under scripture it wouldn't be that hard to imagine that even if Jesus returned tomorrow and had verifiable proof of who he was and what he could do many humans would rebuke him.

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You're right when you say it doesn't make sense to just join the evil guys. It's better when it's a tragic fall from grace or a character who is in it against their will.

40k made it make sense
>A. you're an imperial soldier/slave/ citizen who was so badly wronged by the Imperium that you'd do anything to destroy it
>B. you were enslaved by evil and have no agency

They did a great job of illustrating this In Lords of Silence where an Imperium Captain gets his soul taken by a Death Guard warband. over the course of the story he experiences slowly decaying, zombifying, and losing his will, until he eventually accepts his new life.
This is why the Age of sigmar Chaos warriors were renamed to "Slaves to Darkness"

>>96980093
>>and there's no proof of the actual nature of god
>Allah didn't rise up a giant ass wall for no reason.

Right but he also didn't simply whisk the demons away so he's not all-powerful or is fine with the war happening, just willing to step in enough so that the faithful can keep fighting.

>>96980225
ngl I'd be a bit miffed if humans were cloning and eating my flesh.

>>96980093
>"Allah totally built this wall to protect us" *the wall is practically tagged by Mammon*
>"Our magic totally isn't demonic" *shoves away the seal of Solomon"
>"We're totally the good guys! Don't look at the countless godless abominations we've created in test tubes!"
The iron sultanate is so far from God as you can be without outright being aligned with Hell. You'd realize this if you thought about what you've been presented instead of taking everything at face value

>>96980162
40k has various examples of people joining Chaos for whatever reason
>corrupt officials dooming themselves and their people for monetary gain
>renegades preferring outlaw life over Imperial rule
>scientists and technocrats believing they can overpower Chaos influence/demons
>artists wanting to break through human limitations of creativity at any cost
>people having full faith and religious belief into a holy relic which turned up to be of chaos origin
>anyone experiencing any negative emotion having it amplified by Chaos and getting mad and corrupted as a result
Of of my favourite example was an overworked astropath who went mad and became a living gate to Chaos demons simply because he wanted a sip of wine and a bit of rest

>>96980266
>countless godless abominations we've created in test tubes
bit facts there are some demonic vibes with their shit, but meta-christ jesus cloning sounds such as sacriligious desu

>>96977659
>Be crusader.
>Go through a brutal campaign to Jerusalem.
>Uncover ancient artifact and literal Gate to Hell, which is WAAAAAAAAY worse than anything you've seen so far.
>Go past the gate to fight the Lord's enemies bc crusader, and bc God made me to have dominion over everything else, including demons and shit.
>Nothing like what you expected. It's horrifying, but not technically malevolent. There's even (fallen) Angels there.
>Actually, you get a lot of power, philosophy, and deep knowledge about the world.
>Okay, God made Man, but God is not actually infallible. Or even really that good a person, given everything in the Bible.
>Leave Hell with a bunch of superpowers born from the stuff of creation itself, tutored by Angels who'd done all this before, and demand equality and more respect from God.
>Not even to conquer Heaven, but to get respect as thinking, sapient creatures literally modeled after God, and to not be genocide because you didn't live and think the way he wanted you to.

>>96980918
children rebelling against their father must be spanked, simple as

>>96977659
Some people are just douchebags, anon.

>>96980326
at least in 40k chaos isn't LITERALLY pure evil hell of the christian faith thats irredeemable, the chaos gods aren't half as "evil" as something like belzebub in TC, they just want power and jokes not pure total destruction for the sake of it, when the alternative is the imperium I can see why some would turn, but when the alternative is literal heaven and angels, its hard to imagine someone willingly giving in to hell, besides, as some have pointed out, just evil people, or i guess someone raised in the hell places which have been hell controlled for 8 centuries wouldn't know any better and probably think heaven is the real evil or some shit

>>96977659
I feel like you can make this make sense if you make the standards of heaven strict, and there are no take-backsies.

Why do you become a demon worshipper? Why would you not aim for heaven? Because you've *already* fucked up and know you won't make it into heaven, you ARE going to hell, so the only way left to you to try and minimize your suffering in the afterlife is to get in hell's good graces. A lot of people might be in denial over how much they have sinned and still aim for heaven despite having already failed the entrance exam, but anyone who KNOWS they are going to go to hell already has nothing to gain by dedicating the rest of their life to the side of good. You can't wash out sins with good deeds.

>>96981263
if you genuinely repent then god forgives, its written in the bible, hell is only for the true non-repentent, even lucifer can go back to heaven if he repents, but he simply doesn't want to, you have to be iredeemable to be in hell in biblical canon not considering non canon stuff like milton or dante etc that dominate pop culture perception of hell, but yeah, TC isn't exactly accuarte to irl biblical canon and heaven/hell are are more like some kinda weird aliens in this setting desu so who knows the real rules

>>96981285
Honestly, there are so many flavors of christianity now that its hard to take anything as a universal truth of how heaven/hell works even if you DID want to be 'accurate'. There will always be at least one branch of christianity that disagrees with you on almost any topic unless you stick to the vaguest, most general things.

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>>96980918
>Leave Hell with a bunch of superpowers born from the stuff of creation itself, tutored by Angels who'd done all this before, and demand equality and more respect from God.
>But all of those gifts require literally eating children and sacrificing their souls to demons

>>96981199
The Ruinous Powers are incredibly evil, anon. Any claims to the contrary are invariably attempts to recruit for them, and as horrible as it is in the Imperium, a lifetime/eternity in their service is far worse, their followers are simply too insane to realize or care anymore.

>>96981496
yeah i'm not saying they're not evil, but I'd say the shit in TC is way more evil than smth like nurgle, or maybe my perception is wraped from being exposed to so much w40k, but the demons in TC just seem more hardcore, idk

>>96981496
>>96981503
also depending on where shit in the imperium can get genuinely horrific, like imagine life in a lower hive, at least you get the sweet release of death but beyond that being some nurgle servant isn't that much worse in life

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The fallen angels knew their rebellion would fail but chose to keep going out of pride
Now they keep going out of hateful spite, since if they can't choke down their pride and say sorry, they can at least drag as much of creation and as many souls into the misery shitpile that they're stuck in like a child throwing a temper tantrum and then giving their dad the finger before the real punishment comes

>>96981503
>>96981496
Ultimately the problem with 40k is that there is a massive disconnect in lore. Canonically there are entire Chaos worshiping civilizations in 40k that are completely functional, which carries the implication that 40k humanity, and the Eldar before them, is literally doing Chaos wrong. It's like the difference between a guy with a steady job and stable home life who has a drink or two every evening and does a little blow from time to time versus the guy who became a barely functional alcoholic by second semester of college and robbed his parents house to pay for smack.

>spend your life as a shit peasant
>experience a personal tragedy that shakes your belief about whether or not god truly loves you
>start thinking that he’s an aloof tyrant who’s just protecting his property. After all, if he truly cared about every last human being on earth, why doesn’t he just summon his full force of angels with tailor made gigahacks and steamroll through hell?
>cultists show up and start further convincing you that the forces of hell are more worth fighting for
>you say fuck it and decide to defect and take your chances serving the demons and hopefully be lucky enough to gain more power and rise up the ranks to gain more power than you ever thought possible

>>96981309
By that point your in too deep and child sacrifice sounds like a decent trade off

>>96981503
>>96981520
Everyone talks up Nurgle cults like it's some swell time, but what they don't mention is that the Fat Fuck In Chief has you on the mother and father of all morphine leashes. The moment you disappoint or disobey, you'll feel exactly what's wrong with your plague-rotted body magnified to a degree that would give Slaanesh a boner.

>>96981567
That's what I'm saying, in TC it seems that life under hell is just as horrific and short lived as you'd expect and once they beat humanity they'd just implode on themselves, but in WH fantasy even, see norsca, they're chill about worshipping chaos lol

>>96977659
I love that the idea of people turning to Hell in a world where God still takes a completely "hands off" approach on the happenings on the planet really rustles people jimmies.
Why is it so unthinkable to you that people might turn away from a God who apparently doesn't give the slightest shit on whats going on on the planet, when they can turn to the demonic side who are showing actual legit power that can be attained.
Your average Joe hasnt ever had contact with one of the handful of Paladins. At best, they might have seen a Communicant (who could just be a lanky misshapen freak really), or a Sniper Saint who is able to make some freaky good shots with no eyes. If they're very lucky they might have seens a stigmatic nun...and had a crafty wank when she wasnt looking. Its hardly proof of fucking divinity and certainly not proof that what the Bible tells you is real is it?
And turning to Hell isnt really complete doom, you just have to out sickfuck everyone else and rise to the top.

>>96980093
>demons rampaging all over the holy land
>best the "all-powerful" diety can manage is to throw up a reasonable wall to protect the area of a modestly sized country from demons.
>everyone else? Sucks to be you, should have prayed harder.

And you wonder why people turn to the demonic side.

>>96981726
it's clearly all a test, our very own mortal world taken to the extreme, be righteous in the face of horrors and depravity and you will probably be rewarded, I like how angles in TC are so apsurdly powerful they just act like nukes on contact that wipe out both sides tho lol

>>96981747
>I like how angles in TC are so apsurdly powerful they just act like nukes on contact that wipe out both sides tho lol
Again, just more proof that God doesnt give the slightest shit about humanity. Why serve an uncaring God?

>>96980705
It's just the communion though?
If you've received it, you're a part of christ now.

>>96981707
Because the issue with siding with Heaven is an absence of apparent benefit while the issue with siding with Hell is the omnipresence of its detriments. Chaos in 40k is widely unknown in terms of how it works and what will happen, the overwhelmingly vast majority of people joining up with Chaos are doing so from a place of ignorance and thus it makes sense they'll take an "anything has to be better than this" attitude. It's well-known what Hell gets up to in Trench Crusade so the psychology has to be different. I'd say the average heretic has a mindset less of "God doesn't care" and more "humanity is going to lose anyway." If you already think you're in for a horrible fate 100% then it makes sense you'd sign up with Hell for a shot at a 98% chance of a horrible fate.

>>96977659
I'll be honest anon, after reading up on the order of the nine angles and their satellite communities and the fact that they've been doing doing shit every year for a bit made me reconsider purely evil cults. Because as it turns out some people unironically want to do evil for its own sake irl and write texts on how rape is a good thing and justified. They do that on their own and don't even need Satan to push them into it. So if literal supernatural demons with real ass magic superpowers existed they'd probably jump on the satanic bandwagon even faster.

>>96977913
imagine being this fucking retarded

>>96981756
>just have god solve all problems all at once
A non-christian wouldn't get it.

>>96981756
>Why serve an uncaring God?
Everlasting salvation and an eternity in paradise?

>>96982235
Exactly. God helps those who help themselves.

>>96977689
>What you're doing right now is just failing the sally-anne test

Developmental psychology burn!

>>96977913
Countries that didn't do anything had terrible results, are you high?

>>96980113
At this point, the christian god has been such an awful fucker, he has more evil points than the christian devil.

>>96981548
He's not even our real dad.
He's one of the youngest gods.

>>96982235
That's not what he said, you lying piece of shit.

>>96982278
No, god tends to help people who are born into wealth mostly. His track record on poors trying to help themselves is terrible.

>>96982406
The implication seems pretty clear anon, he thinks god doesn't care because god isn't doing obvious things like just instantly solving the problem.

>>96982432
He thinks god doesn't care because god has been seen actively killing true believers along with the sinful, you lying piece of shit, and you know it.

>>96982477
>>96982432
though, it's true, christian god has no morally acceptable stance for how bad the world gets as written.
And that's assuming all the things he says are TRUE! And that heaven isn't just a blender for souls to make his smoothie.

>>96982479
I mean, that's basically the foundational question of theological philosophy - if God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, wherefore does he permit the existence of human suffering?

>>96982477
This hasn't been said at any point in the comment chain anon, while saying god doesn't care because he hasn't stopped hells forces has. So really I wonder where you are getting that from the other anons words.

>>96982489
because god is a force of nature not a guy with a beard watching you piss
theological philosophy is so fucking retarded

>>96982521
You are literally responding to a chain of comments about how angels nuke everyone, including believers, you filthy liar.

>>96982522
God's not a force of nature, that's nature, which is much older than god.

>>96980918
>Or even really that good a person
This is just inherently incorrect. If the concept of an almighty creator is proven to be true, then that being is the objective point of reference for righteousness. No act that being can perpetrate could be considered unjust or hypocritical and it can freely make whatever demands of its creations that it wishes assuming it is truly omnipotent. Good is not a subjective matter in this hypothetical because God is assumed to be good as the almighty divine.
You don't really get to demand respect as a rebellious, petulant child that is failing to live up to its purpose.

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>>96982387
*tips fedora*
*vapes*
m' lady

>>96982530
God is the universe
checkmate amateur theologian

>>96982525
I see you missed the comment chain anon I'll direct you to these posts >>96981726 and >>96980225 which are saying that god doesn't just solve the conflict. Best to actually read these things before you make posts in a chain anon.

>>96982414
If you're too retarded to escape poverty, sorry. Should have developed some kind of skill. Be a plumber and stop being poor.

>>96982541
No, that's a radical departure from essentially all dogma and makes "god" into a pointless phrase.

>>96982542
Note the direct quote chain, you filthy liar.


>>96981747
>>96981756
>>96982235
>>96982406

>>96982682
lol, none of you faggots believe a single bit of the religion you spew.

>>96982736
Doesn't seem like he's lying

>>96982751
Yes it does, you filthy liar. What, are you illiterate too?

>>96982536
Note how the reality denialist only has mockery to fall back on.

>>96982742
There is nothing in Christianity saying I can't call you a retard.

>>96982800
There is against presupposing all hardship can be fixed by sheer gumption, though.
Hence all the stuff on charity, and the evils of wealth, and all the other nonsense you people pay lip service to.

>>96982812
Poverty = all hardship? Sloth is a sin. There is no good reason for an able bodied person with a sound mind to be destitute.

>>96982823
Ah, suddenly retreating to able bodied and sound mind, eh?
I wonder how much further you'll move the goalposts on examination.
I guess everyone during the great depression was very slothful, huh, what with the mass lack of jobs?

>>96982830
>reddit spacing
>strawman
>non Christian talking about the religion as if they know anything about it
Go back, retard faggot.

>>96982847
>claiming reddit invented everything
lol, newfag
>Legitimate example of where people of sound mind and body could not find work and were impoverished called a strawman
lol, filthy liar
>Upset at being schooled by a nonchristian
lol, read a book.

>>96977699
>the good side should be equally as strong or even stronger
The good side is the moral side. Even when they're crazed self-flagellating zealots, there are lines they will not cross. The evil side has zero reservations. That's why they're able to pose such a threat even while outnumbered two to one

>>96982879
Past a certain point immorality has diminishing returns, unless this devil magic is actually and legitimately just stronger than god.

>>96978253
>Not of works
There is no good tree that does not give good fruit, anon.

>>96982895
The fuck were the people of the past ON when they said this shit, all throughout history there've been good trees that aren't for eating.

>>96982755
No it doesn't. Ironic that you'd prove yourself illiterate in the same post you accuse others of being illiterate.

>>96977669
If we are using D&D as example - serious evil orgs do not lie that much about general stuff. They mostly utilize a different approach to good ones.

Good guys - suffer and struggle now to get your reward in the afterlife if you die.
Evil guys - get immediate reward right now, with bonuses on top, but unless your performance meets very strict standards you get assraped in case you die.

Evil guys want their followers to go for instant gratification and try to survive as long as possible. Contract dodging through immortality is 100% intended as it means evil motherfucker is going to be a thorn in everyone's side and a poster child for evil PR for hundreds if not thousands of years. They are going to be pointing fingers at him and going "See you too can get everything you want and not pay on the contract if you are immortal". Doesn't matter that out of ten thousand potential Dark Lords 9'999 die at the start of their carrier and get assraped by demons for eternity.

>>96983031
>Perhaps if I just lie HARDER, he'll not notice my lies or illiteracy
None of you fuckers believe a single word of that shit you spew.

>>96983079
>Y-you're lying harder!!!
I wasn't even the anon you were originally talking to, retard.

>>96983093
And yet you're still lying, funny that.

>>96977689
One thing I love about the TC setting is that God behaves more like a supernatural force than a character. The Christians use the divine for their purpose but everything is their interpretation. God has 0 agency and is more like a cosmic horror god that doesn't give a shit about humanity.

>>96982847
There isn't even reddit spacing in that post anon.
this post has reddit spacin.

are you stupid?

>>96977659
This has been endlessly discussed multiple times on the general threads. Why are you rehashing it here?

>>96980918
>Actually, you get a lot of power, philosophy, and deep knowledge about the world.
>Okay, God made Man, but God is not actually infallible. Or even really that good a person, given everything in the Bible.
>Leave Hell with a bunch of superpowers born from the stuff of creation itself, tutored by Angels who'd done all this before, and demand equality and more respect from God.
Faithless and prideful. In addition to >>96982532 men judge not the horrid heart of the fallen angels as God does, but the glorious visage and power that they have at their command, in spite of the fact that God is more powerful and in his patience and love imposes His will far less often. In glutting yourself on their honeyed words, you have proven your soul lethargic and wholly unknown to the redeeming power of Christ through faith. The serpent's first lie was questioning the veracity of God's statement and asserting His words to be half-truths, so you have shown yourself born of Adam in your desire to eat the fruit and become like God, even if it isn't surpassing as the Dragon had aimed. Has a mirror any more right to knowledge, status, and strength for its reflection of something greater than it?
Yet there is still hope: humble yourself in repentance, the one quality in which man is more capable than angels, admitting and accepting your fault and pleading for God's gracious forgiveness. For the demons had foreknowledge of the world's path in eternity and rebelled regardless, but you are merely in creation and can still choose.

>>96983096
If you say so schizo

Aren’t there hints in TC lore that Hell is older than God? Like the group of eldritch worshippers, Church of Transformation or something?

>>96983260
God sounds like an evil and egotistical bastard, why would you worship that?
He even lies about creating humanity, who are far older than he.

>>96983371
lrn2read, fag

>>96983201
>cosmic horror god
the favourite porn genre of the atheist fag.

>>96983482
You first, schizo

>>96977659
>>96977669
Yeah it's the same deal as 40K; maybe they get to become a demon prince who can play god for a while if they're good at their jobs they won't.

>>96982736
You'll notice anon that the first post in that chain you posted >>96981747 was replying to the one I linked >>96981726, thus was the older part of the chain and under the greater context of the reply chain. Helps to read these things and understand how posting works before inserting yourself in on things without context instead of bringing up nonquitters not being discussed in the conversation.

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>>96977659
>the forces of hell standard issue firearm is the M1 Carbine

>>96983595
Okay, so you've worsened your argument from just lying to lying AND making your argument look worse, since what he requires of god is even LESS than what was being argued.

>>96983545
>n-no u
lol, say it with your chest, fag.
No, u.

NTA but you're really embarrassing yourself by continuing this

NTA but it's really embarrassing that you don't understand the reply function.

>>96983689
Don't bother, our resident schizophrenic is not just retarded but also lacks all self awareness. He just comes here to angrily assert that he's correct while being wrong about nearly everything he tries to talk about.

>>96983705
I can't believe you have to make up a bogeyman just because you lost an internet argument.

>>96983705
I can see that now
Still, I like to try and offer helpful advice where I can, though he's evidently not able to take it

>>96983731
And then everyone clapped.

>>96983201
>doesn't give a shit about humanity
erm. read the lore. you may skip ahead to John 3:16
>>96977689
>no proof heaven is
>but everything else somehow is because, it is just is okay
>not guaranteed
quite literally is
>they have no way of knowing
But they do, and they choose to lie to themselves, just like you're doing now. hee hee
>>96980225
>if god was real he would wipe my ass for me
sorry lil bro

>>96980266
>The iron sultanate is so far from God as you can be without outright being aligned with Hell.
So the issue for me is deciding whether or not to post
>"because, they just are okay??!??"
which attacks you by saying your claim is just your own opinion and it's wrong... or I go for the chuddier reply of
>that's because they are muslims
which attacks muslims and thus is BASED

I can't choose, so both are presented.

>>96983769
I think asking for more than the absolute minimum to survive is a bit less than having him wipe your ass for you, mr. strawman.

>>96981199
bro 40K's religious situation is worse than christianity, since you being damned in Christianity is your own fault.

>>96981707
>And turning to Hell isnt really complete doom, you just have to out sickfuck everyone else and rise to the top.
you drank too much of the sucker juice anon! now you're a total sucker!

>>96983775
>I think asking for more than the absolute minimum to survive
But you have that, and you've never even asked. This is all hypothetical to you, and you picked the wrong side of the hypothetical too.

>>96983780
anon, it's a fictional setting writing fanfic about a fanfic of jewish religion.
None of this is real.

>>96981884
Order of Nine Angels?

What sources do you recommend for reading?

>>96983787
Christianity is real tho

>>96983826
This fag fell for the fanfics.
I bet he even slurps up dante's leavings.

>>96983772
Genuinely made me laugh, good post anon.

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>>96983832
look don't blame me when you're explaining the reason for your ambivalence in front of the angel court that's all I'm gonna say

>>96983839
Don't get upset when you wind up in some kind of ancient mesopotamian land of darkness, mud, and ghosts where all you have to keep you warm is your memories of life and your interactions with other ghosts.

>>96977659
Pretty much. From what I seen and read. The creators are basically those "artists" who starts drawing a IP cause it's big but doesn't really know much about it and their art shows by adding things that doesn't work with the lore cause they thought it would look cool or basically just start changing the lore cause they don't care and just want to draw their "X." Though what's funny is since it's THEIR art rather then get someone to make the lore and their artwork and setting make sense they basically say "Nothing is Canon" and you can basically do whatever you want with it and it counts. So they can keep drawing their "edgy heavy metal album cover art." Which would be fine if they can just fucking admit the demon-worshippers are villains and the church are the "good guys." Though they have to push both side bad BS thinking they being deep and shit. Though I think that was cause they didn't like that the people who were liking it were white Christian men who didn't like what 40k had been doing.

>>96983845
I can imagine doing a lot to avoid getting the warhammer audience.

>>96977699
>reading through the TC lore I felt like a strong bias towards the Hell side
Because Godless demons wrote it.

>>96983877
Man, you guys really break down a lot over this kind of thing.
Watch out, it's witches this time! WooOOoOOoo

>>96983877
There is no bias towards Hell side. I doubt that anon even read lore.

>>96983877
Are you sure, the poster child of the franchise is still the Christian pilgrims, or new Antioch

>>96983847
Yeah, but let's be honest. the 40k community is like the D&D community for TTRPGs. If you can't get at least a good chunk of them. You're not going to get big. If they kept their mouth shut. I think they MIGHT had a chance of at least becoming the Pathfinder of Wargaming. Though now, I think they end up like most wargames and people at most will play twice get bored and got back to 40k or the new Wargame.

>>96977689
>No proof heaven is real and there's no proof of the actual nature of god just that they exist.
The Day of judgment is directly stated to exist.This is when people go to either hell or heaven.

>They have no way of knowing other or not their soul is doomed regardless of whether they fight for hell or not
It is a major part of the lore that only evil people can approach the gate of hell without being killed. Only those who are 'worthy' can join the legion and they take an unbreakable vow to darkness so cannot be redeemed. People who are just born in the area are slaves, cattle (food) or punished when they approach hell, only be freed on the day of judgment.
>>96980225
Directly stated that God does stop demons from just destroying earth. It is humans which spreads evil in the land.

>>96977659
Trench Crusade niggers are retarded because they attempt to insert real life religion and/or spirituality into a vibes-based setting. In that sense, they are a lot like the fans of Kill 6 Billion Demons

>>96977659
Becuase, while being girmdark artshit scam it makes correct assumption that Yehova, in the narrative of the bible, tora and other derivative works, is either not all powerful, all knowing or if it is, is just a piece of shit.

Despite what christcuck cockgobblers
>>96981026
>>96981309
>>96982532
>>96983260

according to scripture humanity has the ability to judge good and evil, as well as the very god itself can. So it only logically follows to ally yourself with whoever has the best offer.

>>96978008
>>96978023
Some of them don't even need to be evil in the malicious sense. Some people are so stuck on the physical world that they refuse to accept divine truth.

For example, I've met Christians that said that if God himself told them "Yes, homosexuals are sinners and if they are unrepentant they will go to hell" they would tell God they would rather be in hell for eternity than in his "heaven". Some people can't stand the idea of an absolute authority and will rebel on principle.

>>96981199
Chaos and christcuck cope at the same time, you love to see it

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>>96977659
>>96977669
>bro, if you worship me and overthrow the virtuous you'll totally own those christlibs
>exactly one third of the relevant populace: DUHHHH OKAY

See, I can absolutely believe in EXACTLY one third of the human race being down to hitch their trailer to a big fat icon of cartoonish villainy.

>>96985067
You're kind of obligated to rebel if the absolute authority is evil.
Which god doesn't make a very good case against, what with all the genocide and murder and the badly designed spinal column.

>>96985177
In the case of god being real he would be unable to be evil as morality in and of himself would come from him. Therefore being against him would always be the default evil position.

>>96985340
>slave morality

>>96985340
>le moral relativism but it's fine when the relativity is whatever god might think

>>96985515
That's pretty much the opposite of moral relativism, God would be the objective morality.

>>96984138
>according to scripture humanity has the ability to judge good and evil
Scripture says humans have the ability to distinguish between the two. Judgement is an authority, and it is not reserved for humans except by procedure in God's name, in recognition that even as a collective we might have it wrong and thus we need discernment and revelation from on high. For when Christ says that he without sin may cast the first stone, it is a warning that any measure of judgement you hold another to will be the standard you will be held to upon your own judgement, and it will be a standard that you as a human will woefully fall short of.
Your following logic is based upon a premise as flawed in it's prideful anthropocentricity as direct democracy.

>>96985340
If god were to exist he would by necessity be evil, due to all the lying involving the creation of the world, being the source of morality, and all that.
He didn't do any of those things in reality.

>>96985767
I'm not sure why god fags accuse everyone else of being prideful while constantly lying.
I think it's because the religious have absolutely no qualms about lies.

>>96985515
God is objective morality. He's God. What do you think, "I am what I am" means? What God says, is and what God wants, will be. This is no more slave mentality than saying you're a cuck to nature for tending your crops. God is God and going against that is going against the very fabric of reality and say, "no, I'm right. Not you."

>>96988074
So, since morality existed long before god I can only assume god is lying, which is immoral.

>>96977718
Blessed out of the loop Chad

>>96977945
Wait. Is Trench Crusade a Strand Type game?

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>>96978085
>/thread
Another Reddit tourist...

>>96987483
"Pride" in a Christian context is shorthand for lying to yourself that you are deserving a superior position, capability, access, etc. in spite of all humans being equally human. Everyone is born, everyone dies, dust to dust. As such it applies to basically any context in which a complaint or criticism pops up, whether it's in regards to God's plan for and interactions with the world or wanting authority to impose upon the will of others. Even the self-deprecation of framing others as better than you, in the context of all people being equal, is an assertion that you in some way deserve to be raised up to their perceived level.
It's the ultimate core of sin and transgressions as Christian concepts. Lucifer was more gorgeous than any other angel and figured that warranted him to usurp his creator. The accusation of "pride" is thrown around because it's the one thing that literally every human "is guilty of," simply as a matter of any meritocratic culture ever, culminated in the Adam and Eve story where they're convinced by Satan that they will be equal to God should they eat the fruit. God meanwhile sees humans as social beings with free will that by their social nature require structure, and knows that any hierarchy will have people clamoring for the top. Hence, church authority is to God first and your fellow man second, with Wheelchair Bob being just as valid a source of financial knowledge as Pastor Jones is for bible knowledge.
100% call out any "Christian" that you find hypocrisy in, they're supposed to be Matt. 5:37 "let your yes be yes and your no be no" kind of honest. Ironically, any good Christianity-hater should read and know the Bible purely to style on fakers. If they're real then they'll repent, if not then they don't speak for Christ or his church.

>>96988168
Would you rather be the reddit tourist, or the guy who got hurt, bad, by the reddit tourist?

>>96988250
I'd rather eat my own intestines than be a redditor. Fuck every one of them.

>>96977659
Some of us don't want to be slaves to Yahweh. Sic semper tyrannis.

>>96988346
you'd shit yourself if you find out about half the posts on reddit these days are 4chan crossposts lol

>>96988363
So I've heard. It doesn't make redditors any better. I still say fuck them all.

>>96977659
The funny thing is that if you actually study medieval European Goetic texts demons like Buer are outright benevolent and teach humans things like medicine. Demons were really understood as powerful and hazardous beings but not evil until much later.

>>96977659
They're just aping real life. Can't be helped.

>>96983404
Good point.