Welcome to the Second Edition General, the thread dedicated to D&D 2E and its newer offshoots/retroclones (Alternity, Hackmaster, Myth and Magic, For Gold and Glory, etc). Other editions (OD&D, AD&D, B/X, ACKS, etc) should be discussed elsewhere. Broadly, 2E games encourage campaigns structured around character identity and narrative continuity. Less emphasis on the dungeon as the primary engine of play and greater emphasis on scenario-driven adventures and long-term story development.If you are new to the 2EG, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.
Nah, I'm just gonna talk about 2e in the /osrg/ where it belongs.
So what's up with Hour of the Knife? The whole "kill all the players and then revive them" thing is such bullshit even if I like Paridon as a setting.
>>97523627How does 2e belong in an OSR thread when it's not an OSR game, instead of in a dedicated 2e thread? Absurd
>>975237852e is very much OSR. The OSR began after 3rd edition dropped in 2000 and WotC stopped all support for 2e, and seemed to indicate that no pre-3rd edition material would be reprinted (since it would be competition for 3e). That's why the earliest "Old School Revival" discussions began roughly around 2002, with people doing things like trying to start petitions to show WotC there was an interest in older editions, and just generally trying their best to figure out how to preserve the older games from slowly disappearing. That's essentially what the "Revival" business was about.If the OSR was instead a reaction to 2e, then it's quite strange to imagine that the OSR was acting like a secret cabal since 1989 only to emerge in 2002, and even then not voicing any strong exclusionary attitudes towards 2e besides a small minority within the OSR community.
>>97523796Incorrect.
>>97523627And I'm talking about ACKS, here :3Favorite class? With overcasting, I've come to love the mage.
>>97523796Fuck off, fishfag
>>97523615troll thread
>>97524001Troll game
>>97523615>Second Edition General, the thread dedicated > to D&D 2E and its newer offshoots/retroclones (Alternity, Hackmaster, Myth and Magic, For Gold and Glory, etc).I don't know about the others I but I have played Alternity and I can't fathom how can one consider it and off-shoot of 2e.
>>97523615>D 2E arescan all ravenloft and planescape material as many of the scans suck (cannot be read, missing pages, a mess in general) and this will revitalize interest
>>97523796It's possible to play in the OSR style with base 2e, but when you get into the splat-heavy play that characterized the majority of the 2e period, it's firmly outside the bounds of the OSR play philosophy, so SOME discussion of 2e is appropriate for OSR, but some isn't, therefore it makes perfect sense to have a separate thread.
>>97523796>Same insane rant for the hundredth timeWe're not an autistic fixation support group, fishfag. Seek psychiatric help.
>>97524357>It's possible to play in the OSR style with base 2eWrong. The rules of 2e break the core OSR mechanics, so it's impossible to do it without heavily modding 2e.
>>97524502Correct answer. 2e is fully incompatible with OSR gameplay, and the work to adapt it is as extensive as making 5e "OSR-compatible".
>>97523615Best edition because best settings.>>97523627>>97523785>>97523796>>97524357>>975245022e and 1e AD&D are literally the same game. The largest megadungeons ever published are in 2e. The notion of "OSR" being broadly defined is false. It's just sub-genre blah-blah like people who wanna argue over whether XYZ counts as ABC sub-genre of metal if they use a yukelele or whatever the hell. It's a buncha nonsense that no one actually participating in these hobbies gives a flying fuck about.
>>97524590>2e and 1e AD&D are literally the same game.Incorrect.
>>97524601I don't know or care why you think that. I play them and they're compatible and your belief on the topic is irrelevant.
>>97524555> and the work to adapt it is as extensive as making 5e "OSR-compatible".I wouldn't say that shadowdark is the product of particularly "extensive work".
>>97523615>Broadly, 2E games encourage campaigns structured around character identity and narrative continuity. Less emphasis on the dungeon as the primary engine of play and greater emphasis on scenario-driven adventures and long-term story development.That just isn't true. 2e AD&D gives you the settings and supplements and published adventures to run everything from Undermountain to a pure-politics game that doesn't require dicerolls.These decisions are made by players and GMs at their tables and about their tables. 2e didn't tell you which way to play. Neither did any other edition. You guys and your little OSR/anti-OSR feud aren't talking about the games. You're talking about how you like to play the games, and projecting your preferences onto the games and claiming that your preferences are the "right way" to play them. There isn't a "right way" to play them except what your table decides. There never was.
>>97524605That says everything about you and nothing about AD&D and AD&D 2e.
>>97524626Case in point: Shadowdark is not OSR-compatible.>>97524646>2e didn't tell you which way to play.False. The 2e PHB and 2e DMG are chock full of (mostly bad) advice.
>>97524694>False. The 2e PHB and 2e DMG are chock full of (mostly bad) advice.Literally the largest dungeon crawls ever published are for 2e. You're correct: they've got advice. Not demands. All of the styles of GMing that you think are edition-specific were always played in every edition of the game.
>>97524684>That says everything about you and nothing about AD&D and AD&D 2e.It says this:>they're compatibleThe rules are. Because the rules are the same.
>>97524605>I play themNo you don't.>they're compatibleNo they're not.
>>97524751>the rules are the sameYou're fucking retarded if you believe that.
>>97524822>>97524842Your opinions are irrelevant. I play them and it's fact.
>>97524646>trying to use muh Undermountain as a crowbar againCringe. Anyone who's at all informed on the topic knows that Undermountain was hastily thrown together as a sop to players who were upset at the loss of the original play style and lack of support for it in FR and 2e. No only does it not represent Greenwood's Undermountain at all, the map is so badly and quickly hacked together that for example it contains the entire map of B1, pic related.(More stolen map chunks are noted in https://unvisiblecitadel.blogspot.com/2020/06/undermountain-map-origins.html) Nor is it properly keyed, most of it is just left empty "for the DM to expand". The only reason you ever get away with this at all without getting comprehensively laughed off the board is that since 2e isn't an OSR game, most of the posters in the OSR general are completely unfamiliar with Undermountain or any other Forgotten Realms products than the original box set.
>>97524751>the rules are the sameIncorrect.
>>97524888>I play themNo you don't.
>2e is OSR>fags whose first game was 1e, can't stand change, and worship Gygax (who eas forced out from TSR before 2e was released for being a coke-addicted retard) attempt to redefine OSR as a specific style, solely in an effort to try and exclude 2e>they completely forget that 0e and 1e had plenty of railroad story-based adventures, and 2e had plenty of hex-crawling/dungeon-crawling adventureslol, BrOSR are such dumb shits.
>>97524918Facts are facts, anon. Where you think they're "cringe" is irrelevant.
>>97525008Exactly, facts are facts, and the fact is that Undermountain is unusable nogames shovelware.
>>97525008He spent so much time typing up all that cope and he didn't even manage to make a point. He even undermined it by agreeing that it's 100% a big fat dungeon crawl.What he failed to appreciate is that undermountain was the biggest fattest dungeon crawl made up to that time. Its one of the crawliest crawls there is.
>>97525020>my biased and flawed opinions are factsNo, they're your attempt to cope with facts.
>>97524991
>>97525128>BrOSR fag recoils>"I've been found out!"That's partly why everyone hates the BrOSR.
>>97525038>Anon: here's incontrovertible proof that Undermountain is ramshackle shovelware made by people who neither understood nor cared for megadungeons>Fishfag: see, he admits I'm right!Kek, the amount of cope
>>97523796>trollcow is furious with this post>but can only be mad because it's rightFucking lol.
>>97525152>incontrovertible proof that Undermountain is ramshackle shovelwareYou mean that it included a whole other dungeon as a subsection both as a homage and to help illustrate just how gigantic the full dungeon is?What a fucking retard you are.
>>97525152Undermountain is pretty fucking great though. Have you ever actually run it?
>>97525184Read the post you dumb nigger, the whole map is composed of scraps of other maps they had lying around the office.
>>97525190Nobody has ever actually run Ruins of Undermountain.
>>97524646This guy is correct.
>>97525194That's pretty awesome.How the fuck do you not understand how awesome that is?
>>97525232>nogames slop is cool actuallyThe level of desperation, kek
>>97525249>a megadungeon that deliberately pays homage to previous dungeons and is able to trigger that "wait a second.... why does this feel so familiar..." feeling in veteran playersYou dumb stupid fuck. Anyone could have just made a giant sprawling labyrinth of random rooms with little effort, but Undermountain went the extra step of adding in classic dungeons because that's an awesome idea.How are you such a soulless piece of shit. I get you're just in hyper-cope mode at the moment, but you might genuinely be devoid of a soul, and I hope some modern day paladin finds you and smites the shit out of you.
>>97525141When have the BrOSR ever been ashamed of being recognised as such? They're attention whores.What's utterly hilarious is how you think saying "BrOSR" will make your nickname go away, fishfag. It ain't.
>>97525321>is able to trigger that "wait a second.... why does this feel so familiar..." feeling in veteran playersRight, because veteran players LOVE having to run through the same dungeon again and again.You're fucking retarded, fishfag.
>>97525357There's more than one kind of BrOSR. BrOSR are just faggots who like to pretend there is a ONE TRVE WAY to play OSR. They individually disagree and argue about what that way is, but collectively they are just retards hoping to co-opt the OSR and pretend it's something it isn't.The few who are self-affirmed BrOSR are just the most shameless of the lot, and useful to the rest because other BrOSR can try to argue "No, I am not a BrOSR, that guy is a BrOSR!"But, BrOSR is a label, basically an insult, and the BrOSR are not the ones in control of who is called a BrOSR.And that'e why you're so mad and so desperate to avoid the BrOSR label.
>>97525370Players recognizing a familiar layout to a dungeon they may have played years ago but with completely different contents is a fun idea. It's a really cool Easter Egg.How are you so soulless?
90's DnD best DnD. I have so many great memories, especially of Al-Qadim, Birthright, and Masque of the Red Death. >>97523615I remember multiple Ravenloft modules doing this shit. There was one where Victor Mordenheim killed the PCs and swapped them into other bodies and another where the players were expected to surrender to angry Vistani and do a quest for them to prove they were innocent. I wonder how many groups were broken up by that sort of shit because the players were resentful or the DM went nuts after the players' dice rolls succeeded every time and broke free of the railroad. A lot of modules started out as convention games with pre-gens so they probably just began with the party being dead which you can't really do with an established group.
>>97525472You should post that in the /osrg/. This is just a troll thread made by someone trying to exclude 2e from that thread.
>>97525400You expect people to believe that bullshit you just made up, fishfag? You truly have a defective theory of mind.
>>975254822e is off-topic on /osrg/.
>>97525496>guy who pretends everyone he argues with is one person says something about what people are expected to believeFuck, you're making it too easy to dunk on you.
>>97525512No, it's on-topic because it's an OSR game.
>>97525496That's the definition of BrOSR and how it's used by most people in the OSR community. You can find dozens of examples of this with a quick google search, and you can even find the guys willing to call themselves BrOSR presenting different and conflicting definitions of what BrOSR is.
>>97525400Is this the same "BrOSR" that has written a 200 page campaign report about ACKS just to troll you, fisfag? The same "BrOSR that is just one person that you call "trollcow" for some inscrutable reason? The same "BrOSR" that you claim has a secret Discord just to troll you? The same Discord people of which you claim to have identified 80% of the usernames despite them all being just one person? The same one-yet-multiple-people who are literally paid by Alexander Macris just to troll you, fishfag? An actual, literal retard?
>>97525594
lol the trollcow popped a blood vessel
Were there any good aditions to the classic TSR campaign settings when 2E gave out their expansions?
>>97525620I think this might be the most upset I've seen him in a while. I think his whole "Undermountain is bad!" bit backfiring so badly on him has really just set him into pure tantrum mode.
>>97525620>>97525643Fascinating to watch a literal autist attempt to comprehend human emotions and fail.
>>97525638I'd love to answer your question but I have no idea what you mean. Do you mean for example Greyhawk books published during the 2e era?
>>97525668You can't really expect trollcow to be human in any fashion, let alone understanding human emotions. His embarassing tantrums are really only heightened by his efforts to pretend he's not upset.
>>97525638You really should ask that in the /osrg/, as 2e is an OSR game.
>>97525693>fishfag trying the "no u" again.
>>97525643>I think this might be the most upset I've seen him in a while
>trollcow is enragedPost more to show how totally not mad you are.
>>97525321>a-a-ackchually lazy unkeyed rehashes are *better* than originality, creativity and effort!!! This HAS to be trolling. Nobody is this stupid for real.
>>97525400>the BrOSR are not the ones in control of who is called a BrOSRYou mean the same way you're not in control of what games are called OSR?
>>97525542No, 2e is off-topic in /osrg/ as 2e is not an OSR game. Hope this helps!
>>97525717>2e is an OSR game.I'm afraid not, 2e has never been considered and OSR game, so it doesn't belong in /osrg/. Please don't give anons bad advice, as their posts will just get politely redirected or even pruned.
>>97525542Nobody with even a modicum of brain power is going to think that 2e is either good or osr
>>97525400>There's more than one kind of BrOSR. BrOSR are just faggots who like to pretend there is a ONE TRVE WAY to play OSR.Really it's fascinating seeing you be so absolutely stupid. Based on past experience it seems like you simply find words or topics and latch on to them aggressively, without actually understanding or comprehending them whatsoever. Same with how you are obsessed with this game, but yet cannot even create a functional character sheet.
>>97524646>to a pure-politics game that doesn't require dicerolls.This kind of storyfagging is neither osr nor desirable
>>97525594You always claim that all of this evidence is so easy to find and so damning, but when prompted, you are literally never able to come up with anything yourself.
>>97526484>Based on past experience it seems like you simply find words or topics and latch on to them aggressively, without actually understanding or comprehending them whatsoever.This is really the funny thing, it's proof that he can't be botposting because even a bot would learn what it's taking about faster than this. If he like set ChatGPT to auto-shitpost it would internalize the feedback received and come back with better bait next time, but Fishfag never does, he just clings autistically to his weird tags until he gets so thoroughly owned that it crosses some threshold where he lets go and invents the next new thing to cling to.
>>97525152Whether it's good isn't the point, anon. The point is: the largest dungeon crawl ever made was for 2e (until apparently someone intentionally published something that beats it for 3.xpf--I've since discovered through google).The point was: 2e, like every edition of D&D, does all the things. The difference isn't edition. It's how you run your table. 2e runs the whole gammut, from hardcore dungeon crawl to dice-free narrative. And know what? So does every other edition ever. "OSR" isn't about the game. It's about the people playing it.
>>97526500While of course AD&D 2e isn't OSR, I have to push back on your general claim: Diplomacy is a diceless game about politics (more precisely its continuation through other means). And while it course it isn't OSR either, it actually influenced Braunstein heavily, and it was hugely popular at TSR in the early days. It's extremely good, one of the best games ever designed. Truly a work of genius, and worth trying for the "feel" if your ever want to try refereeing a Braunstein or opening your table up for adversarial play.
>>97526549>the largest dungeon crawl ever made was for 2eFalse.
>>97526549>OSR is just a feelingWrong, retard.
ah hell yea a 2e thread, love that editioni haven't run it in a little bit, though i did play in a short-lived 2e game my friend ran a little bit ago set in the Realms, and i recently took the Shattered Circle module and dropped it into my Dolmenwood game, it fits the themes of the game really well.
>>97526330You're right in that no single person is in control of what games are called OSR, because there's no central authority and not even anything inherently stipulated in "Old School" beyond "Old," so it's important to operate with the expectation that every person is going to have a different definition and to try to be as accommodating to as many different views as possible.I believed that's colloquially called "not being an immature faggot."
>>97526623>>97526608Well I've posted facts and you've posted "nuh uh!"So good luck with that, anons.
>>97526355Check out these posts from the first OSR general thread, way back in 2015.https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38228713/#q38250750
>>97525400>BrOSR are just faggots who like to pretend there is a ONE TRVE WAY to play OSR.Can confirm.https://www.enworld.org/threads/brosr.691184/https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89918&start=270https://www.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/1go9e1h/what_the_hell_is_brosr/https://enragedeggplant.blogspot.com/2024/10/brosr-and-gurps.html
>>97525020Sure if Undermountain is another name for your posts.
>>97526549Oh wow some giant shitty dungeon page? Well you absolutely convinced me that 2e is pure osr!
>>97526765Why do you have this as your basic retort for any amount of criticism. Seriously, no matter what anybody says to you you reply with "Actually your posts are what you're talking about and you're dumb and I'm really smart!"We'll see having a conversation with you is like trying to talk to a 10 year old having a melt down
>>97526698>Bro look at these posts they totally prove me right! >"Technically, you can make OSR refer to anything you want if you try hard enough"BAHAHAHA
who the fuck cares whether or not 2e is "OSR"? i like 2e a lot but if the OSR guys don't want it talked about in their thread, i'll just talk about it elsewhere, it's really not that fucking deep. we literally have this thread now, right here, for specifically talking about 2e, and the retards who are obsessed with making everyone agree it's "OSR" (the most meaningless label on fucking earth) still can't shut the fuck up and just talk about games. i'm convinced they don't even play anything.well whatever. i hope someone continues to make these 2e generals because i actually like 2e and enjoy talking about it. these retards spamming about it being "OSR" is what made me stop checking the OSR general very often in the first place. i genuinely could not care less about whether or not the game fits some le epic trve kvlt "OSR" label, i just want to talk about games.
>>97526549So 3rd and 4th and 5th edition are all osr if you want them to be? Fantastic got it :-)
>>97526694"Osr is whatever you want it to be" it's not a fact. It's an opinion, and it's a terrible one.
>>97525751Yes, that is pic of you being in the thread.
>>97526339You being wrong is not very helpful.>>97526439Said by someone without a brain.
>>97526884It's also not what I said, anon.What I said was: All of the D&D editions do all of the things. What makes something OSR isn't about the edition or rules of D&D. It's about the type of you game that you use those rules to facilitate, and from oD&D to 2024 5e D&D can, every single one of them, run the exact same types of games, top to bottom, from hardcore dungeon crawl through to dice-free RP.
>>97526873100% accurate. OSR is about what you're doing with the game. Not about the game. From 1974 onwards, the rules of every edition of D&D have been used to run everything from dungeon crawls to dinner theater. This is fact.
>>97526845The irony of that coming from a retard who came into a thread for 2e (the thing dumb fucks were asking for) and shat the place up.
>>97526865What's your favorite supplement?My two are The Bloodstone Lands (Forgotten Realms) and The Astromundi Cluster (Spelljammer). I'm running a game set in Astromundi right now (my map attached because I dunno if you've ever seen a Spelljammer crystal sphere map but it's very hard to read), albeit w/ 5e rules but 2e setting and cosmology. Folks wanted to play 5e and I don't care that much. The Bloodstone Lands (Vaasa and Damara) was written by RA Salvatore. It's pretty good, and based on the old H-Series of adventures.
>>97526960You may find this useful. https://peterstribe.com/crystal_sphere_generator2.html
>>97526936Nope. That's NuSR. OSR is pure Gygaxian D&D 1E and ACKS
>>97527011Your labels are about you. Not the things you label.And that's fine, anon. I'm glad you've found something you enoy.
>>97526960honestly i haven't run a ton of pre-written stuff for 2e, most of what i've run has just been my own stuff. i do play to run Shattered Circle soon but using another system, as i mentioned here >>97526666 my friend who sometimes runs games for me and our other buddies really likes the Forgotten Realms stuff, it's not my favorite setting personally but he runs it in a fun way so i can't complain
>>97527017Very trans-coded way of speaking and approach to labels there. A real mask-off moment for the NuSR fan base.
>>97527047>No argument>InsultsAre you winnin the culture war over there, son?If you wanna try, go ahead and offer your counter evidence that disputes this simple fact posted in >>97526936>rom 1974 onwards, the rules of every edition of D&D have been used to run everything from dungeon crawls to dinner theater.What you call "OSR" is about you. Not the game.
>>97526861And that ancient poster is not wrong. That's the commonly understood approach to OSR, which is why you can even find OSR adventures designed for Oe but are also somehow 5e compatible.At the core, >>97526549 is right, that OSR is not tied to an edition. Even though >>97523796 is also correct that it started as an effort to preserve pre-WotC material, the OSR is not directly opposed to 3e, and one of the first OSR games, Castles and Crusades, included lots of 3e mechanics despite it being firmly pledged and built around the idea that it was a system designed for "Old School play".The simple truth is that systems are flexible, house rules are common, and no two groups ever played in the same way, and the idea that there is a singular "OSR style" is so patently wrong it seems to come from people with an incredibly poor misunderstanding of how RPGs work in general.
>>975270342e had a fully-realized setting for literally everything. That's a lot of the fun of it. If you're building your own thing, go check out whatever official release there is for the similar 2e thing. You'll find something you didn't think of and like in it. From Eskimo Buddha, random river fishing tables, an undead workforce animated by Galvinists who channel electricity into corpses, to parasitic psychic sex-fruit. 2e has it.
>>97526591True. Gygax was a prolific contributor to Dippy fanzines in the period before and just after the creation of OD&D, as Playing at the World documents. That being said, Anon was addressing a diceless political game *as a campaign mode of D&D* and that is, indeed, not desirable in D&D gameplay, which is not well suited for it. In fact it would be better to run such a thing on a custom Dippy board of one's setting ("fairy" Diplomacy indeed being a popular pastime in the community of those days) and with the high-level perspective afforded by that game rather than the ground-level perspective of the D&D rules. The consequences of this high-level Diplomacy game could very well inform the D&D campaign, but it would be best kept separate.
>>97526549>the largest dungeon crawl ever made was for 2eYet another fully ignorant baseless assertion. Keep at it, Fishfag!
>>97527100>That being said, Anon was addressing a diceless political game *as a campaign mode of D&D* and that is, indeed, not desirable in D&D gameplay, which is not well suited for it.Try not inventing strawmen? That's not what I said. What I said was:>2e AD&D gives you the settings and supplements and published adventures to run everything from Undermountain to a pure-politics game that doesn't require dicerolls.And it does do that. Whether you think it's "desirable" is irrelevant. Every edition of D&D has done all of these things, and countless tables have utilized the rules to run each and every one. OSR isn't about the games. It's about how you play them. And there's nothing inherent in any one edition that every other edition doesn't also do.
>>97527114No idea who that is. But you're making a factual claim so go ahead and defend it. Name a larger dungeon than Undermountain written before 2000. I'll grant you that, as I discovered, someone writing for 3.xpf did specifically write one around 2005 that'd be bigger than undermountain.Undermountain contained: The Ruins of Undermountain, Ruins of Undermountain II, The Lost Levels, Maddgoth's Castle, Stardock and Skullport.You wanna claim that there was a larger dungeon published before then? Go ahead and tell us what it was, please.
>>97527093yea it definitely seems like it, i've looked into Dark Sun and Planescape a little bit, both look really cool, my buddy who likes FR also really likes Planescape and has been talking about running it for years but still hasn't lol. right now i'm working on sort of a big open table / "west marches" style project with a bunch of people in a discord server, it started out as a Dolmenwood game but i plan to slowly add stuff from other games, settings, supplements, etc from anything vaguely osr/nsr compatible (making adjustments to keep things fair where necessary). i was really inspired by the guy who made Barrows & Borderlands talking about his "game of games" project where he does basically that, mashes together a bunch of stuff to make a massive sprawling in-game world that players can interact with. the concept has really reignited the feeling of wonder i had toward these games when i was younger.
>>97526674>t's important to operate with the expectation that every person is going to have a different definition and to try to be as accommodating to as many different views as possibleNope! On the contrary, for the term to mean anything at all it's absolutely imperative to gatekeep and not let soggy all-inclusive "definitions" totally erode the meaning of the term, lest it become entirely useless. Trying to be accomodating to everyone is a fool's game and should never be attempted. You can read more about this here: https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.htmlThank you for your attention to this matter!
>>97526861>>Bro look at these posts they totally prove me right!They did prove you 100% wrong about "2e has never been considered and OSR game."Don't even have to look beyond the first /osrg/ thread and we already have people confirming it is OSR.Check out these direct quotes from that 2015 thread.>in general it is understood to be pointing at D&D material printed by TSR before WotC took over the property, or games that are designed in that image. So 2e is generally the cut-off >2e at the latest. Everything from OD&D to 2e is basically cross-compatible, so you can easily have a Fighting Man, an Elf-as-Class, and a Elf Fighter all in the same party.>3e tosses the compatibility out the window, though. And no one is challenging them, no other replies to what the "cutoff" for OSR is. And, people are comfortably discussing 2e and 2e mechanics in that thread without anyone contradicting them.So, it's more than fair to say you are entirely wrong.
>>97526694>I've posted facts
>>97527162Contest 'em, them. Here are my facts:- Every edition of D&D can and has been used to run everything from dungeon crawls to dinner theater.- The largest dungeon ever published for TSR D&D was published for 2e.Try and disprove one, but note that you'll need evidence.
>>97526698>in the very first OSR general, the OSR general had not yet cohered and there was still some confusion around the termNo fucking shit, Sherlock.>>97526845>having a conversation with you is like trying to talk to a 10 year old having a melt downTen-year-olds aren't remotely as immature as fishfag, Anon. Try a five-year-old.
>>97527177That's not how generals work on 4chan. They don't develop into secret clubs or private cliques that have definitions that contradict the commonly accepted definition held everywhere else. If that's what you want, go make a subreddit or better yet a truly private chatroom.More importantly, you're going to find people continuing to consider 2e as an OSR game throughout the years beyond the very first thread. So, you were wrong then, you're wrong throughout the ages, you're wrong now, and you will be wrong in the future unless you finally correct yourself.
>commonly accepted definition held everywhere else.
>>97527047You didn't know that the fishfag and possible second 2efag are Discord trannies?
>>97527239If you want to use a personal definition that's alien to the rest of the world, it's only going to lead to confusion.You believe in a limited verson of the OSR. As such, you probably should affix a label to yourself that reflects that limited view.You are a LOSR. You only want to play LOSR games, and you probably always will be a LOSR. I know you get mad about being labled BrOSR, but you being a LOSR allows you to avoid that stigma they garnered while still conveying to everyone you do not in fact care about OSR, but instead just a limited version of it.
>>97527122Ah, no, we're not talking to or about you, fishy! This is a discussion between me and the other two anons, people who are all aware already that 2e isn't an OSR game. You don't need to concern yourself with this.
>>97527335>Delusions of persecutionAnon 4chan is just a website. 10-50k people visit /tg/ every day. Take a break, my guy.
>>97527225>That's not how generals work on 4chan.It's precisely how generals work on 4chan. They delineate a topic (3e, OSR, 5e, 2e, GURPS god help us) and then you're expected to stick to that topic within the general.> the commonly accepted definition held everywhere elseThe commonly accepted definition everywhere else is that 2e is not an OSR game, as has been conclusively demonstrated to you already dozens of times. Nobody outside the terminally hopeless OSR plebbit believes it is.
>>97527343Right, and all of those people except you know that 2e isn't an OSR game. So you don't need to trouble yourself to respond to conversations you weren't part of and don't understand, someone else more knowledgeable will do that for you.
>>97527357You're having an argument with someone you've imagined is here that has nothing to do with anything I've said, anon. The things you're saying just aren't relevant to what anyone else said.Seriously. Get a candy bar. Maybe a nap.
>>97527357Whether something is OSR isn't about the game. It's about the people playing it. Your descriptors are about you.The inability to differentiate between the independent existence of a thing and its interest and utility to you, is a hallmark of autism, anon.
>>97526928>from oD&D to 2024 5e D&D can, every single one of them, run the exact same types of gamesWrong. The rules of 2e, 3e, 4e, and 5e actually make OSR play impossible, through a combination of e.g. retarded rules for XP, bad or missing rules for exploration, bad or missing rules for timekeeping, bad or missing rules for downtime play, rules that break resource management, and so on.
>>97526936That only proves you have no idea how first decade D&D was actually meant to be played.
>>97527349>It's precisely how generals work on 4chan. They delineate a topic (3e, OSR, 5e, 2e, GURPS god help us) and then you're expected to stick to that topic within the general.Exactly, so if the topic is OSR, people who want to discuss commonly understood OSR games like 2e should be free to discuss the game in the OSR general.>The commonly accepted definition everywhere else is that 2e is not an OSR game, Wrong, and a hundred times wrong. Only a minority have ever tried to exclude 2e, and their ideas have largely been rejected by the OSR community as a whole.Even back when the OSRIC group waged their flame wars on Dragonsfoot and ultimately left to make their own K&KA forum, they barely had a few hundred members compared to Dragonsfoot's thousands, and Dragonsfoot was far from the only place OSR was being discussed.>Nobody outside the terminally hopeless OSR plebbit believes it is.Hopelessly wrong. I can find endless examples of 2e (and its direct retroclones like For Gold&Glory) being included in OSR discussions, including OSR discussions on this very board, as well as websites beyond reddit such as dragonsfoot, wizards.com, enworld, rpg.net, twitter, facebook, basically just about everywhere that OSR is discussed.It really takes a special sort of autism to look upon the wide tapestry of OSR games and to hold a special vendetta against 2e.
>>97527169>Every edition of D&D can and has been used to run everything from dungeon crawls to dinner theater.OSR is neither, so irrelevant.
>>97527400Name one thing that an edition that you think is OSR can do, that you think any other edition cannot do. Not one thing that you think some other edition does in a way that is "retarded." A thing it cannot do. One example.
>>97527422My what a cute lil' puppy>commonly understood OSR games like 2eoh noit's retarded
>>97527407>meant to be played.And there's the crux of the problem. OSR isn't about the game. It's about how you, personally, think the game is "meant" to be played.That's about you. Not the thing.
>>97527400Your personal definition of OSR play is not universally accepted. It's not even widely accepted.Hell, if you masturbate too much to the idea of gold for XP and tracking torches, you end up with a game like Shadowdark, which you ironically hate.
>>97527429>Name one thing that an edition that you think is OSR can do, that you think any other edition cannot do.There's a list in the comment you just replied to, mongoloid.
>>97527455Pick one. Pick which "OSR" edition you think does it. And then pick a "non-OSR" edition you think doesn't do it.Then let's go find the specific rules for that thing in that edition and notice that your claims are obectively false.
>>97527445>OSR is anything anybody believes is OSRFalse. And you will never be a woman.
>>97527463I know where this is going to lead, and I'm torn between wanting to see how badly this is going to break him and not wanting to see how badly he's going to embarrass himself in the process.You're kind of sadistic.
>>97527479Maybe they just never took a Philosophy 101 course? We use spoons to eat cereal. That's a property of us. Not of spoons, which are simply shaped pieces of metal. It doesn't feel like this should be so hard to convey.
If it's just about dungeon crawls and not Gygaxian gameplay values I guess all games capable of dungeon crawling are OSR now! Call of Cthulu has dungeon crawls, Traveller, star trek adventures has dungeon crawls where you explore derelict ships. Oh and 40k! Space Hulks basically a dungeon crawl. So heckin inclusive!
could you guys please stop shitting up the 2e general with posts that have nothing to do with 2e? we're trying to discuss 2e here, thanks
>>97527463I will give you TWO:1) XP only for killing monsters and retrieving treasure, and not for bullshit like achieving "story goals" set by the DM, learning the rules of the game, having fun.2) Slow exploration speed in dungeons, the speed of e.g. AD&D and B/X and not that of 2e, which is ten times quicker.(One can easily add a dozen more.)Inb4:>B-but AD&D 2e has XP for gold as an optional rule.Yes, but all the other rules, like achieving "story goals" set by the DM, learning the rules of the game, having fun, are NOT optional.>B-but I can ignore those rules! And slow exploration speed down by a factor of ten.Yes, but then you're not playing AD&D 2e anymore, are you?>B-but all rules are optional and Gygax said you can change themBy that logic, Call of Cthulhu and D&D 5e are the same game because you can just change all the rules of 5e to the rules of Call of Cthulhu while still claiming to be paying 5e.So yeah, you can play AD&D 2e as an OSR game... if for every rule difference you just use the AD&D version, and then still claim that you identify as playing 2e.
Reddit hates Gary so much they try to separate Gygaxian values from OSR and just pretend OSR is defined by inclusivity and vibes lmao, effectively turning the OSR into some meaningless soup that can be anything
>>97527536>XP only for killing monsters and retrieving treasureYou just acknowledged that 2e has those rules. So you agree with me.>exploration speed in dungeonsYou just acknowledged that 2e has those rules.So you agree with me.Anon my whole point, this whole time, has simply been thus: D&D editions can all be used to run all of the exact same type of game. And that the difference is about you and what you want to do, and not about the game.You want to claim that "OSR is different" and when pressed to provide evidence of those differences, the ONLY thing you can back it up with is "well I like how this one does it better." Do you understand, yet? The games aren't OSR. What you want to do with them is.
>>97527536>are NOT optional.Even by RAW, they are entirely optional, without even having to invoke rule 0. They're literally entirely at the DM's discretion, and the chapter goes at length explaining just how discretionary they are.>2) Slow exploration speed in dungeons, the speed of e.g. AD&D and B/X and not that of 2e, which is ten times quicker.It's not ten times quicker any more than a second in context of a minute is 1/60th as fast as a second by itself. They're both the same second, it's how they're presented that's different, and 2e can be just as slow or even slower. Jesus, are you even trying? I understand you're doing your best mental gymnastics, but that's not even a cartwheel, that's just you falling on your face and shitting yourself.
>>97527357>everyone who disagrees with my retardation is the same person.
>You can use "AD&D 2e" to play an OSR game if you just replace the rules with those of AD&D.Thanks for proving my point.>>97527569>You just acknowledged that 2e has those rules. So you agree with me.No, retard. I told you that the problem is ALSO the rules in picrel, which are not optional. As well as the fact that monsters are worth too many XP in "AD&D" 2e, because the assumption is that you won't be using XP for gold. So you'd also have to reduce the XP value of monsters.>>exploration speed in dungeons>You just acknowledged that 2e has those rules.You really are a fucking retard. Yes, it has exploration speed rules, and those rules make characters go ten times quicker. Which breaks the OSR way to run a dungeon, because it breaks resource depletion and wandering monster checks.>D&D editions can all be used to run all of the exact same type of gameAnd I've just proven to you that the rules of "AD&D" 2e that make playing in the OSR style impossible.>>97527584>It's not ten times quickerAs usual, you don't even know the rules of "AD&D" 2e.
>>97527667>And I've just proven to you that the rules of "AD&D" 2e that make playing in the OSR style impossible.Do they? Or is your definition of OSR just narrowly defined solely by "what you personally like?"Lemme ask you this: if I run a dungeon crawl in 2e AD&D, are you suggesting that the books will light on fire? That players will explode? What's "impossible" about it?Could it be: that you feel very strongly that one way is better than another to suit your personal preferences based solely on how you feel about the games, and it's not about the games themselves at all? Ponder that for a sec and see whether it might have some ring of truth.Because I've run hex and dungeon crawls in 2e AD&D, anon. And no one exploded.
>>97527667Did you just hope no one would read the first two paragraphs of that chapter? Which, by the way, isn't from 2nd Edition AD&D. It's from the Revised 2nd Edition. Not that it matters. Any way, here's the first two paragraphs:>This chapter contains instructions for determining specific experience awards. It also gives guidelines about awarding experience in general. However, it does not provide absolute mathematical formulas for calculating experience in every situation.>Awarding experience points (XP) is one of the DM's most difficult jobs. The job is difficult because there are only a few rules (and a lot of guidelines) for the DM to rely on. The DM must learn nearly everything he knows about experience points from running game sessions. There is no magical formula or die roll to determine if he is doing the right or wrong thing. Only time, instinct, and player reactions will tell.Your claim that those rules aren't optional is explicitly false, anon.
>>97527667Even within your narrow concept of what OSR is, you've failed to actually prove... anything really, despite your insistence that you have. At best, you've proven you're very stupid and hate any and all changes without recognizing they're nowhere near as dramatic as you imagine they are or that they may be able to actually improve the OSR experience if used without easily adjusting them down to a facsimile of what you imagine the OSR experience is.You are doing your damn hardest to say "It can't be done and it must be done", when the reality is that it can be done, done easily, but that there's not even really that good of a reason to do it. Your vision of what the OSR experience is sounds exactly like the kind of "rulesplayer" business that Gygax himself hated and would even make fun of on Dragonsfoot and enWorld when he posted there.
>>97527685>>97527713>if I run a dungeon crawl in 2e AD&D, are you suggesting that the books will light on fire?No. I said that if you run a dungeon crawl in "AD&D" 2e you will not be playing in the OSR style, and if you try to play in the OSR style, the rules will make it impossible.>Could it be: that you feel very strongly that one way is better than anotherIndeed, I do feel that the AD&D way is better than the "AD&D" 2e one. And I know that the way I prefer cannot be played with the rules of "AD&D" 2e.>Your claim that those rules aren't optional is explicitly false, anon.That paragraph doesn't say what you claim it says. And you still haven't addressed the problem of the XP value of monsters being excessively high.
>>97527737>ou are doing your damn hardest to say "It can't be done and it must be done"No, I'm saying it can't be done because the rules are different. I don't give a fuck what you do at your table.
>>97527741Holy shit it took this whole thread for you to finally admit it, but I'm glad you got there.>you will not be playing in the OSR styleRight: it's not about the games. It's about the "style" in which you want to play them. It's about your feelings. Not the games. 2e can absolutely be one, because the only thing that needs to change for that to happen? How you feel about it.
>>97527755>The OSR style is just a feeling.Go back to plebbit.
>>97527741I think I understand why you need to try and force the /osrg/ into being a hug box echo chamber, because everything you say is built on a flimsy assumption that is extremely debatable and often flat-out wrong.In order for you to make your claim that 2e can't be used to play in the OSR style, you first have to demand that everyone accepts your personal ideas of what the OSR style is. It's basically a dead argument from the word go, because you're wrong about your basic definitions. Aside from your personal style of what OSR means largely just being a pretty transparent effort to try and define OSR by the changes between 1e and 2e and little else, it's ironic because your considerable efforts to try and make it impossible still fail thanks to the inherent flexibility of the system and the efforts to ensure it was backwards compatible. You are a very little person. Little-dick-energy radiates from you. To make any headway in an argument at all, you need everyone to already agree with you, and that really just means you can't debate like a regular person and are forced to use little-dick tactics like presenting your opinionated assumptions as if they were facts and hoping no one immediately calls you out on them before you can move onto your next point that relies on those baseless assumptions.
>>97527813Your claim was that "AD&D" 2e can be used to play anything. I've proven to you that "AD&D" 2e cannot be used to play that specific style without heavy changes to the rules.Just because you refuse to call that style OSR doesn't change the fact that "AD&D" 2e cannot be used to play that style.So your claim that "AD&D" 2e can be used to play every possible style was wrong.>B-but I refuse to call that style "OSR"I don't give a fuck. The fact remains that you cannot use "AD&D" 2e to play it.
>>97527849>provenWrong.>heavyWrong.>cannot be usedWrong.You've built your entire definition on what OSR is as "2e can't be used for it", and the joke is that 2e still can be used for it.
>>97527863>You can use "AD&D 2e" to play an OSR game if you just replace the rules with those of AD&D.Thanks for proving my point.
>>97527849You didn't prove any of those things, anon. You were asked for things 2e can't do. Provided your contentions in a post IN WHICH YOU ACKNOWLEDGED that 2e does those things, and then pretended that they were not optional rules by truncating a quote that I helpfully provided the rest of.Your mental gymnastics aren't even worth rating, anon. You failed at the dismount.
>>97528010The thing is, 2e has the rules within itself.And, the unfortunate thing for you is that 2e contains many changes beyond the handful that you demand as the sole defining qualities of OSR play, meaning that you can make those few changes, and otherwise retain all the other changes 2e made. You will not be playing 1e, but 2e with a few minor changes to specifically appeal to a particular autist, but otherwise retaining all its other fixes and changes.
>>97528032>a post IN WHICH YOU ACKNOWLEDGED that 2e does those thingsIf you swap the "AD&D" 2e rules with those of the real AD&D.>>97528102>You can use "AD&D 2e" to play an OSR game if you just replace the rules with those of AD&D.Indeed.
>>97528198Please cure your chronic illiteracy and try again.
>>97526960The Astromundi Cluster should have just been Spelljammer.Keeps things concise, keeps the Rock of Braal from slowly turning into yet another FR site and means the increasingly complex 2E cosmology didn’t need to get that complex.
>>97527536>2) Slow exploration speed in dungeons, the speed of e.g. AD&D and B/X and not that of 2e, which is ten times quicker.The mental gymnastics people have used to cover for Gary's math error for 50 years never ceases to amaze. Continue running at less than half my normal walking speed.
>>97528310If you don't like Gygaxian D&D why even bother claiming to be into OSR?
>>97528454Pretending to be an overweight paraplegic is just one aspect of the OSR.
>>97527536>Yes, but all the other rules, like achieving "story goals" set by the DM, learning the rules of the game, having fun, are NOT optional.you are retardednot only they aren't "NOT Optional" there are in fact no specific rules that could be followedthe 2e DMG merely lists suggestions and guidelines with no specific rules
>>97523615>Other editions (OD&D, AD&D, B/X, ACKS, etc)But OP anon, AD&D 2e is AD&D. The first clue is that "AD&D" right there on the cover. The second clue is when you read the rules and find out a lot of 2e is literal copypasta from 1e.>but XP for gold is optional and illusionists are now specialist magic users and magic users are now called wizards and they moved a table from DMG to PHBHere we go again...
>>97524684>That says everything about you and nothing about AD&D and AD&D 2e.That says everything about you and nothing about AD&D 1e and AD&D 2e.
>>97528541>All the "AD&D" 2e rules are optional. So you can use "AD&D 2e" to play an OSR game, you just need to replace the "AD&D 2e" rules with those of real AD&D.Wow. Genius.
>>97527667>I told you that the problem is ALSO the rules in picrel, which are not optional.which fucking rules you idiot?where is the rule that says the DM must award Y XP for storygoal/fun/whatever the fuck?THERE ARE NONEit's all just suggestions, the DM decides and would he decide to award 0 XP for all of those that's literally playing RAW
>>97528548>AD&D 2e is AD&DWrong.>you read the rules and find out a lot of 2e is literal copypasta from 1eAlso wrong. A PDF was shared months ago with over 100 rule differences, and it was criticised because it left out too many crucial ones.
>>97528566>it's all just suggestions>All the "AD&D" 2e rules just suggestions. So you can use "AD&D 2e" to play an OSR game, you just need to replace the "AD&D 2e" rules with those of real AD&D.Fishfag trying to sound smart, ladies and gentlemen.
>>97528564anyone can open up a pdf and see that you are lying about XP awards for storyfaggotery being mandatory
>>97524646>You guys and your little OSR/anti-OSR feud aren't talking about the games. You're talking about how you like to play the games, and projecting your preferences onto the games and claiming that your preferences are the "right way" to play them.That was well put anon. >>97526549>The point was: 2e, like every edition of D&D, does all the things. The difference isn't edition. It's how you run your table. 2e runs the whole gammut, from hardcore dungeon crawl to dice-free narrative. And know what? So does every other edition ever. "OSR" isn't about the game. It's about the people playing it.That is also a good point. It echoes the post I quoted above so it might be that they're by the same person.I'm sorry to read the stupid, petty comments that followed both. It's nice to see some good posts on 4chan even if they do bring out the trolls.
>>97528578>All the "AD&D" 2e rules just suggestions. So you can use "AD&D 2e" to play an OSR game, you just need to replace the "AD&D 2e" rules with those of real AD&D.lmao
>>97528575show me a rule that says a 2e DM must award <this amount> of XP for storyfaggotery whatever or gtfo you dimwit
>>97528587>Accept my new goalposts.No.
>>97524646>You're talking about how you like to play the games, and projecting your preferences onto the games and claiming that your preferences are the "right way" to play themCompletely false. Osr is based on Gygaxian D&D and Gary was explicitly clear about how it needs to be played
>>97528588you can't because the rulebooks don't have itGTFO, you fucking low IQ mental gymnast lying and deceiving mongrel
>>97528620Just because the rules don't specify an amount doesn't mean they don't tell you to award XP for storyfaggotry, cretin.
>>97527667Anon, you know he's just going to keep spewing his tranny sophisms and never internalize a single thing you say, right?
>>97528569>100 rule differencesWith most of them being so minor that it's kind of cute that you're hoping to act like they were world-altering changes.I mean, you've made it painfully aware you're unusually sensitive to even the slightest changes, but I'm sure even you, braindead fart-sucking retard that you are, can appreciate that "mage" is better than "magic user" and doesn't lead to some cataclysmic fallout.
Jesus christ the trollcow is getting his ass BEAT.He's stuck trying to put words into other people's mouths and just dropping to the ground whenever he takes even the lightest punch.
>>97528665Love how quickly you went from "literal copypasta" to "hundreds of rule differences, but they're minor because I say so".
>>97528687>If I say I'm winning then I must be winning.Yeah, we'll file this together with "If I say I'm more than one person then I'm more than one person". And "If I say trollcow nobody will know I'm fishfag."
>>97528691Look how you still think you can pretend you're arguing with one person.
>>97528705>I'm more than one person.You're actually less than one person, since you're a subhuman.
>>97528700Do you honestly think anyone could see you getting so thoroughly beat that you started hallucinating >>97528564 >>97528575 >>97528585 and imagine you've got anything left to argue with?Stay down for the count. Or better yet, keep going, it's always good to have a thread to embarrass you later with.
>>97528724>you getting so thoroughly beatYour theory of mind is so faulty because of your actual clinical autism that you're not only unable to produce a correct character sheet for B/X on your SECOND ATTEMPT, but you can't even tell who's winning an argument.
>>97528750>screams his worthless "YOU'RE FISHFAG" out of desperationFucking lmao. Roll over, you're dead, dog.
>>97528759
>his corpse lets out a last whimper of a wet fartAnd screencap. What a beautifully ignoble death.
What do you guys think of Arbrethil's post on an ACKS-Birthright crossover?
>>97528569>A PDF was shared months ago with over 100 rule differences,Could you be more wrong? You think that contradicts what I wrote?You saying there are 100+ changes, let's get precise it was 119 in the last one I saw, across the 270 pages that is just 1e DMG & PHB, let alone the hundreds of pages of other books that that anon looked at to make that PDF, is less than one change per two pages, does nothing to contradict my statement of fact that a lot of text was copy pasted from one edition to to the next. Apart from that, you need to try looking at that list of changes and you'll see that most of the differences are minor. Like I said>>they moved a table from DMG to PHB>Fuc me\!!!!@ THE EHOLW GAME ISIRUINEDThen there are duplicates on the list so that 119 count is wrong and over stated.Then there's the fact that that list makes non-factual claims which again over states the situation and the count.You and that guy are like flerfers. No reasoning with you, you're locked in to your motivated reasoning. The facts are there but you won't look at them. Instead you['re going to hold to your false 119 points of difference belief rather than investigate the validity of the claims in that list and acknowledge that most of the game was unchanged, a lot unchanged by copy paste, a lot just simple rewording.2e Bless>Upon uttering the bless spell, the caster raises the morale of friendly creatures1e Bless>Upon uttering the bless spell, the caster raises the morale of friendly creaturesSame.2e>and any saving throw rolls they make against fear effects1e>2e>by +1.1e>by +1.2e>Furthermore, it raises their attack dice rolls by +1.1e>Furthermore, it raises their “to hit” dice rolls by +1. >AN EZTRA +1 TO FEAR SAVES>IT'S ATTK DICE NOT TOHIT !!!>THE GAMEW ISRUINED!!!@!
>>97528828>What do you guys think of Arbrethil's post on an ACKS-Birthright crossover?lol I should probably link to ithttps://arbrethil.substack.com/p/acks-birthright
If OSR has nothing to do with Gygaxian than go ahead and give me your definition than. With how loosely you've been describing it (it all depends on how you play it!!!) I already absolutely know it'll be pathetic simpering inclusive horseshit that allows other explicitly non-OSR games. if the definition is not kept pure, you open the door to literally anything that fits the bill and at that point OSR may as well not even exist. Go ahead. Let's hear this definition of yours.
>>97528842Love how quickly you went from "literal copypasta" to "hundreds of rule differences, but they're minor because I say so".
>>97528866>copypasta 99% of the systemNow shut up. God, the lengths you go to just for attention.Look, we get it that this is your troll thread, but it's really just become your funeral pyre. Speaking of copypasta, you're really gonna enjoy some copypasta in the near future, considering you've exhausted all of your arguments and this thread is filled all the counters to your bullshit.
>>97528828>>97528845I think it's great and it's made me want to run it. I just wish Arb had gone into more of the nitty gritty detail about how to do it rather than just give a high-level overview. Anybody know if he's shared more details elsewhere?
>>97528882You have no argument. You're just saying OSR should be anything anyone wants because you say so.
>>97528691>Love how quickly you went from "literal copypasta" Fuck you're stupid. I just posted >>97528842 with an example and btfo the claim that the 119 differences are all important.>they're minor because I say so".No, they're minor because they're minor. Unlike you, I've critically looked at them all.>>97528866Fuck you're still stupid. Not only replying to the wrong person first person but still can't fucking read >>>a lot of 2e is literal copypasta from 1e.Nothing in saying a lot of the rules are "literal copypasta" denies that there are differences. No change are all in my statement flerfer.
>>97528892Let's see... lemmme just fill up my revolver a bit...>>97523796>>97524646>>97526549>>97526674>>97527064>>97527149Bam bam bam bam bam bam. Not a bad set of posts from these anons, and that's not even the bottom of the thread yet.You're dead, lol.
>>97528924NAYRT but those are all just baldfaced assertions of lies and outright nonsense. Your gun's shooting blanks, pal.
>>97528897>the claim that the 119 differences are all importantNo, 119 differences were a proof that it's not a copypasta. A claim you've retracted because you were proven wrong.>they're minor because they're minorSource: You. As in, they're minor because you say so.
>>97528943>those are all just baldfaced assertions of lies and outright nonsenseWelcome to fishfag's world.
>>97528564>>97528569>>97528575>>97528585>>97528588>>97528629>>97528691>>97528700>>97528713Omg you totally owned fishfag! Worst day of his life!
>>97528943>facts that hit you so hard you've been reduced to crying and samefagging>zero effective rebuttal to any of those postsLots of good stuff in this thread.I also really liked>>97526355>>97526698this complete assbeating you got. Short and swift.
If I as a DM decide to put 5000 gp in a treasure chest, that's just a story reward.
>>97528952>No, 119 differences were a proof that it's not a copypastaMove the goalposts and strawman much? I didn't claim no differences, I didn't say whole book was copy and paste.>Source: You. As in, they're minor because you say so.If you're say anything about their importance, which you're implying you are: Source You. As in, they're minor/not minor because you say so.
>>97529047>If I as a DM decide to put 5000 gp in a treasure chest, that's just a story reward.In "AD&D" 2e, sure. In real D&D you can't just do that because there are guidelines there are on the ratio of treasure XP : monster XP.
>>97528994>have absolutely no arguments, just preposterous sophisms>samefag uncontrollably>declare yourself the winnerI'm sure that profit will show up sooner or later, Fagóto Pescatorio. Just give it 4-500 stages of >??? first.
>>97529084>As in, they're minor/not minor because you say so.You're so close to getting it. They're major differences from my POV because I like to play in the OSR style, and the rules of "AD&D" 2e make my preferred style of play impossible. They're minor differences from your POV because you're a Hickmantard and a storyfaggot.
>>97529105I very much can and officially published adventures also do just that.
Just want to give a big thank you to the infographic Anon for all of his hard diligent work
>>97529118>>97529120Wrong, and still demanding people accept his bullshit and even then STILL losing the argument.How do you plan to recover when you haven't even stood up from any of >>97528924?
>>97526928>OSR isn't about the edition or rules of D&DYes it explicitly is you fucking retard.Otherwise you are advocating for any game being osr if you want it to be bad enough, is fudge osr if you dungeon crawl? Is Shadow dark osr?
>>97529160Of course you can. And of course there's published adventures that assign whatever fucking treasure they want. They're just not in the OSR style.Storyfaggotry existed from day one of D&D, yours is not a groundbreaking discovery.
>>97529120No, some of them are minor becauseIF A TABLE FROM THE DMG IS MOVED TO THE PHB IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE GAME.I quoted the Bless spell as well. +1 resistance to fear. Argue that this is major difference.Argue that druids being called priests makes a huge difference too.You've also neglected to address that some of the alleged "changes" are factually wrong.>You're so close to getting itYou're not. You're saying that it's important because you say so, while denying that the corresponding statement holds true to not important. This is a non-argument on your part.
>>97529162>demanding people accept his bullshitI'm not demanding people accept anything, I'm just explaining what OSR is. You're free not to like it the OSR, and you're also free to play however you want; doubly so on a /2eg/ thread.Just don't lie to yourself that you can use "AD&D" 2e to play in the OSR style, because you can't. The rules militate against that.>B-but I can change the rules!Yeah, we've been over that already.
>>97529206You're wrong about what OSR is, and even when we use your definition, you still lose.Dumb retard.
>>97527169None of what you said has any bearing on whether or not something is or is not OSR, so it's pointless to address them.
>>97527225>They don't develop into secret clubs or private cliques that have definitions that contradict the commonly accepted definition held everywhere else.Yes they do you stupid fucking faggot, do you not have any idea what a subculture is? I'm sorry you don't like the community that you're trying to be a part of, but why don't you try blending in instead of constantly shitting yourself?
>>97529226Wrong. Try again.
>>97528548Shadowdark is labeled as osr, is that an osr game as well?
>>97529233If you have a subculture, name it appropriately.Don't call is OSR if you don't want to discuss all OSR. You are a BrOSR, so that's where you belong.
>>97529236There's nothing to try. None of you are assertions have any relevance to whether or not a game is an osr game. Strictly speaking, mechanical fidelity to the holistic procedures of BX and 1e are imperative, and deviating from those while pretending that they arent important, is the exact opposite of osr. Do you think that fudge is an osr game if you do dungeon crawls with it?
>>97529195>IF A TABLE FROM THE DMG IS MOVED TO THE PHB IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE GAME.No shit, Sherlock. That's not what we're talking about.>I quoted the Bless spell as well. +1 resistance to fear. Argue that this is major difference.>Argue that druids being called priests makes a huge difference too.I never said those in particular are major differences. I have listed some of what we at /osrg/ consider to be major differences above (there's more, of course). They're major because it makes "AD&D" 2e unsuitable for the way we like to play.>You're saying that it's important because you say soCorrect. Again, I'm saying that they are important differences FROM MY POINT OF VIEW. You think they're not important because you're a story faggot. More power to you, but that still doesn't mean that you can use "AD&D" 2e for an OSR-style game.>This is a non-argument on your part.You seem to be confused on what constitutes an argument and when it is necessary. I don't need to prove to you that I prefer the OSR style of play to storyfaggotry. It's not a statement of fact, it's the expression of a preference.
>>97529244I'm sorry that the subculture isn't named exactly what you want it to be, but that's a personal issue and nobody else gives a fuck or throws a tantrum like you do.I didn't make the name and I didn't make the rules, but I do acknowledge, observe, and respect them.
>>97529244I like Limited OSR./losr/ for the guys who wanna be purists, /osrg/ for everyone who uses the definition the real world uses.
Alright what the fuck does 2e actually do well? Why was it made if it's just worse than 1e in every way? I got my hands on a copy of the 2e dmg and a splatbook for wizards but I've never actually played it. My only experience with the OSR is running B/X for some people at my university. Why do people hate 2e so much?
>>97529244>Subcultures don't get to pick their own names! >But I get to decide that everyone I don't like is brOSR!You genuinely are a special kind of brain dead retard. I would beg you to post another one of your hilarious fake character sheets but the first two took so long to produce that I'm afraid will never see another one ever again.
>>97529256Dumb ass, you're still trying to pretend it's one guy who disagrees with you. Just look up at this thread and see how fucked you're getting.
>>97529265I'm not the one who decided to fit the definition that can be found everywhere >>97526743That's you. You decided you wanted to be BrOSR, so you get called BrOSR.Just like you decided you wanted to be a faggot, so you get called a faggot.Don't be mad, just quit being a BrOSR and a faggot.
>>97529263>what the fuck does 2e actually do well?Charbuildfaggotry.
>>97529283I thought 3e was the minmax buildfag game.
>>97526743>>97527330>>97529244>>97529280>BrOSRYou keep saying that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
>>97529292I think you're terrified of that label.Have you seen what's happened elsewhere? The BrOSR have been reduced to hiding out in blogs because on forums people are tired of dealing with their shit and bully the fuck out of them, kinda like you're being bullied here now.Best way to avoid being called a BrOSR is to not be one.
>>97529287Sure. If we're talking with respect to ANY D&D-branded edition, I don't think there's anything at all that AD&D 2e does better than all other editions, rules-wise. I can see reasons to play AD&D, different reasons to play 3e, and different reasons yet to play 5e (I'm not familiar with 4e enough, honestly).People just like AD&D 2e because of nostalgia or because they like to read the setting books. And then there's fishfag, who doesn't even like AD&D 2e, he just has a literal autistic fixation over the fact that it's not classified as OSR by /osrg/.
>>97529316It's kinda funny how your strawman gets more ridiculous the more you're put in a corner.
>>97529314>I think you're terrified of that label.You're proving again that you have a defective theory of mind because of your literal autism, fishfag. There's no reason to be "terrified" of that label. It's just factually inaccurate, and it makes you look just about as stupid as everything else you say in a futile attempt to make the fishfag nickname go away. It won't.
>>97529336>you're put in a cornerFishfag's new strategy to make the "fishfag" nickname go away: Declare victory. It won't work.
>>97529345You're terrified.Check out those links, and you'll see that the BrOSR label perfectly matches you.And, it's pretty much your tell that you know your'e fucked whenever you start calling everyone fishfag. You're a coward who can't argue with the person in front of him, so you need to argue with an imaginary person instead.
>>97529252>That's not what we're talking about.Actually it is because someone brought up that list and claimed 100+ changes but that is misleading.> FROM MY POINT OF VIEW. >but that still doesn't mean that you can use "AD&D" 2e for an OSR-style game.Like I said, you don't get it because the "because I say so" line works both ways.>You seem to be confused on what constitutes an argument and when it is necessary.An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.You're saying that your opinion that the changes are important is truth and that others' contrary opinion that at least some changes are minor is not. When both sides can use the same statement "it's true because I say so" for diametrically opposite claims it doesn't establish the claims of either side. It's a non-argument.>I don't need to prove to you that I prefer the OSR styleNo one's asking you to. Don't know why'd you bring up something so irrelevant except you're grasping at straws with which to make your strawman.The topic is about portions of the 2e book being copied directly from 1e. Your preference is irrelevant to me, except for your preference to try to move the goal posts and strawman and ignore facts. I'm humouring you with rational and relevant replies but what you have to say is not even half as interesting as you like to think it is and is nowhere near being relevant to the topic you have evidently lost sight of.
>>97529356You calling everyone fishfag is how we know it's you. If you stopped doing it, you might try to get sneaky with your campaign to gaslight this board, instead of making it painfully obvious and easily trackable.Just searching fishfag in the archive shows your trail, and wow are you invested in fucking this board up in the name of trying to carve out an echo chamber for yourself.
>>97529367>whenever you start calling everyone fishfagYou're so recognisable it's absolutely hilarious you keep trying to deny it.
>>97529391He's trying the "no u" defence again!
>>97529367>And, it's pretty much your tell that you know your'e fucked whenever you start calling everyone fishfag.lol, he does that the second anyone disagrees with him.
>>97529414It's because he's that much of a coward.At the first sign of resistance, he folds, because he knows that he can't actually win the argument when pressed even just a little.Look at his shitshow in this thread. Fucking massacre of his ass,
>>97529314>>97526743>>97527330>>97529244>>97529280How have we fallen so far that "bro" is the most vile insult one can sling rather than a term of endearment? Techbros, AIbros, cryptobros, I only ever see it used to express contempt anymore. It's very sad.
>>97529388>the "because I say so" line works both waysIndeed. As I've already said multiple times and been trying to explain to you for many posts now. You say that the differences are minor because you're a storyfaggot. I say that the differences are major because I'm an OSR grog. It's a matter of preference and play styles.>You're saying that your opinion that the changes are important is truthIndeed. We're saying that the changes are important IN OUR (/osrg/'s) OPINION, Anon. You don't believe that they are important in our (/osrg/'s) opinion? You think we're lying about the fact that we dislike "AD&D" 2e and find it unsuitable for our preferred style of play? Seriously?>It's a non-argument.It's a statement of preference of one style of play over another. You're welcome to be a storyfaggot and be 100% satistifed with "AD&D" 2e. More power to you.
>>97529428Only in certain circles: The same in which a game is OSR if it identifies as OSR and a person is a woman if he identifies as a woman. Hence why fishfag uses "bro" as an insult: it's perfectly in line with its subhuman worldview.
>>97529402Remember the /todd/ thread where anons proved that he was the same guy as Night Lands fag? He lost his absolute shit and started flailing around trying to call everyone Fishfag to confuse the issue, kekIt didn't work.I don't think he even realizes that BrOSR, Trollcow and all his other ridiculous attempts at astroturfing a nickname for literally everyone in /osrg/ are doomed to fail, or why.
>>97529428It is kinda sad. But, could have been worse. Way back when they had to deal with Dandies.Goddamn Techie Google Dandies telling everyone electricity is gonna be huge and we all need to invest in it.
>>97529424>Look at his shitshow in this thread. Fucking massacre of his ass,>If I declare victory, nobody will notice I'm owned>no for real, I just have to do it over and over and with enough confidence
>trollcow tries to distract with his fishfag shit because he lost the 2e argumentGod, how pathetic can he get.
>>97529515>I don't think he even realizes that BrOSR, Trollcow and all his other ridiculous attempts at astroturfing a nickname for literally everyone in /osrg/ are doomed to fail, or why.Actual literal clinical autism.
>>97529531Saying he lost is really bruising his ego.He's really a prideful little guy, isn't he. This might be the second maddest I've ever seen him, and the ironic part is the madder he's getting, the harder he's losing.
>>97529548It is pretty fucking funny.Trollcow keeps on collecting nicknames from different people, and has to wonder how it keeps happening, because he has to pretend it's all coming from one person.
>>97529561>from different peopleright
>>97529584lol, there's that bit of pretend you've locked yourself into. You can't even fall back to the level where you might haflway convince anyone anymore, because your whole entire crusade now depends on it being just one person you're disagreeing with. Meanwhile, this thread alone has obviously several different people shitting on your chest, and you're still stuck.
>>97529656>obviously several different peopleOh yeah, suuuure
>>97529724Yes, Trollcow. There's more people who disagree with you than just your madeup strawman. Also from your huge amounts of Cope in the thread, it is a wonder why you still keep this shit up. You're more persistant than Iron tard was.
>just let the edition that started the storycuckold horseshit join the OSR clubNo
>>97530217>madeup>amounts of Cope>persistantESL third worlder
Everyone who disagrees with me is the same person and has been at it for a year.
>>97523627 Little faggot thinks he's a gatekeeper. Ignores all the "In you setting!" "How do you do X!" "How does Y fare in Z?" slop. KYS, wannabe TJ.
>>97529267>>97529280Absolutely crazy how not being included in our club has broken your mind to the point of saying nonsensical schizo garbage constantly. You're not a part of our subculture, just like 2e is not part of OSR. Thanks for your obsession with brosr, I'm sure that whatever autistic topic you latch on to next time, you will have even less comprehension of.
I've heard the Dungeon Magazine adventures for 2E were OK, what are the best of them?I want actual opinions. Not something that could be scraped off ChatGTP or Google.
>>97532740Depends on the kind of game you want to run. OSR-wise, the vast majority sucked. Plot-hammer wise, some of them were quite good. But Google is something that covers this well: you'll see the same adventure names reoccur. Just bear in mind that some of the praise is coming from an OSR standpoint (e.g. The Mud Sorcerer's Tomb, Kingdom of the Ghouls) and some from a traditional 2e (modern game style) standpoint (e.g. The Forgotten Man). Try this meta-list to see which names keep coming up:http://www.nerdovore.com/2016/12/the-best-dungeon-magazine-adventure.html2nd ed content ran from #18 to #81.
>>97532831>OSR-wise, the vast majority sucked.Of course they did. 2e isn't an OSR game, what do you expect?
>>97532953Shut the fuck up, trollcow. A whole thread showing you how dumb and wrong you are, and you still feel the need to squeek.
>>97533174>if I deny I've been rekt and shout that I have won instead, people will be convinced that 2e is OSR>if I say "trollcow" people will forget I'm fishfag.That's not how it works.That not how any of it works.
>>97532953>>97533174no functioning human being gives a fuck if it's "OSR" or not. both of you please fuck off and stop shitting up the 2e thread. we're trying to talk about 2e here.
>>97533414Take it to the /osrg/ if you want to discuss an OSR game like 2e.
>>97533375>if I deny I've been rekt and shout that I have won instead, people will be convinced that 2e isn't OSR>if I say "fishfag" people will forget I'm trollcowShut the fuck up already. The difference is that you are dead in the wrong, and the thread above proves it over and over and over again. People can read, and all you have to say about how 2e isn't OSR is how you have a special definition of OSR that isn't shared by the world at large that's designed just to try and exclude 2e.It's no wonder all your posts drip of faggotry. Your body can't contain all that you are.
>>97533491>People can readRich, coming from an actual literal retard who can't even create a B/X character sheet, a game for children.
I don't understand what the whole drama is about. I like 2e precisely because it isn't OSR. No idea why some Anons are so attached to the label, as if "OSR" were some kind of badge honour or quality stamp.
>>97533629same, i like 2e as its own thing, i don't give a shit whether or not it fits some autistic internet label. i wish these retards would go back to their containment thread and let us talk about 2e in peace.
>>97533553>Tries to deflect by just making shit up while still insisting everyone he's ever disagreed with is one personPeople can read, retard. A whole thread of you getting thrashed so hard, and you STILL keep trying to play a card that's never going to convince anyone that 2e isn't OSR. You can't actually argue against 2e being OSR, so you try so hard to make shit up about an imaginary person because you think people will get distracted from 2e being OSR.Also, don't forget, a whole thread above your post is proving 2e is OSR.Wait, did you forget already? 2e is OSR.
>>97533629>>97533638Not fooling anyone. Shut the fuck up.
>97533646>trollcow getting extremely desperate nowNot fooling anyone.
>>97533645>People can read, retard.Rich, coming from an actual literal retard who can't even create a B/X character sheet, a game for children.>A whole thread of you getting thrashed so hardKeep telling yourself that, fishfag.
>>97533652take your meds you fucking schizo, you retards have been shitting up this thread non-stop arguing about "OSR" bullshit nobody gives a fuck about. you are literally entirely off-topic and spamming. fuck off back to your retard containment thread if you want to argue about some gay little internet label nobody cares about.
>>97533646Trollcow, you've been trying to gaslight this board, and we've seen how you've done it and the lengths you're willing to go to.We've seen you flood a thread for HOURS with a puppet show of shitposts with yourself.https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96881801/#q96887950We've seen you make thread after thread just to try and gaslight this board, including this one. We've seen you samefag, shitpost, lie, and do every possible shady activity a person could do, all while trying to pretend everyone who disagrees with you is a single person.Who the fuck do you think is going to trust anything you say anymore?
>>97533646ESL isn't a verb you fucking street shitter.
>>97533629There's one literal retard who hates /osrg/ and has been using 2e as an excuse to troll it for years. Fishfag has proven time and again that he doesn't really know the rules, settings, or adventure modules of 2e. His is a pure autistic fixation.I'm genuinely sorry you guys got caught in the crossfire, but the problem is with the people who allow him to shit up the board at his leisure.
>>97533681You dumb fuck. You might have still fooled someone if you had kept your mouth shut, but trying to pretend this was a thread made by someone with a genuine interest in discussing 2e instead of just trollcow doing his best to exclude 2e from the /osrg/ is where you done fucked up.
>>97533708>trollcow still thinks anyone will listen to a word he says when he's demonstrated he's the least trustworthy shitposter on this boardA whole thread of people shitting on you, and you're still acting like you're only dealing with one person. Why? Because you've trapped yourself, because the moment you admit that it's more than one person, that's the moment the entire justification for your autistic crusade falls apart.
>>97533714dude i don't give a fuck who made this thread or why, i want to talk about 2e in it and i'm tired of you idiots shitting it up. you're off-topic and fucking annoying.
>>97533700>Fishfag is still whining that /osrg/ regulars shitpost his copycat threads to oblivion.Make your own general with a different name and nobody will come after it, fishfag. But you won't, because you don't actually care about 2e. You only care about shitting up /osrg/, because you are a vicious pest.
>>97533730>i want to talk about 2eTake it to the /osrg/ if you're genuine.
>>97533742Inciting a raid now, fishfag? Classy.
Running to the Janny won't save you.As I was saying;>>97533629>I don't understand what the whole drama is about. I like 2e precisely because it isn't OSR. No idea why some Anons are so attached to the label, as if "OSR" were some kind of badge honour or quality stamp.OSRFag here, it's literally just one autistic troon who thinks 2e can be a wedge issue to shit up /osrg/ to 'own the chuds'He doesn't give a shit about 2e beyond using it as a cudgel, to the point where he didn't even know Raistlin was a PC.I mean fuck, I despise Dragonlance and have nothing to do with it if I can help it and even I know that shit.---With that said I will now leave you 2eoids to your thread.Birthright, Darksun and Council of Wyrms are all cool as fuck settings even if I think the rule system is a bit obtuse.
>>975337572e is OSR, so it belongs in the OSR general.If you're curious about how it's OSR, you've got a whole thread above you proving it.
>>97533742why would i talk about it in a thread where i'll get shit talked for it instead of in the thread dedicated specifically to it? i don't care whether it's "OSR" or not but most of the guys in that general don't want it talked about, so i don't talk about it there. i'm totally fine with having a separate thread for it, because i genuinely just like the game and want to talk about it. i feel like the reason you're sperging out so hard is not because you actually like 2e, but because you have some weird autistic fixation with making other people accept it as "OSR", which is a completely meaningless label to anyone with a brain anyway. if you actually liked 2e you could just make a thread like this one and talk about it freely, this is a free website where anyone can make a thread at any time, you're just a fucking schizo.
>>97533757Worse. He's inciting a raid and also declaring he will keep disrupting this thread because he won't allow 2e to have its own thread. Not sure why this is tolerated.
>>97533761Don't call yourself OSRFag, BrOSRFag.
>>97533646>>97533715oddly specific
>>97533766Doesn't prove anything except that there's two definitions of "OSR". And like I said I don't give a fuck either way.
>>97533771>why would i talk about it in a thread where i'll get shit talked for it instead of in the thread dedicated specifically to it?Because he wants you to help him disrupt /osrg/ like he's disrupting /2eg/ now, and like he's disrupted /NuSRg/ in the past, that's why. He's here only to stir shit up, and being allowed to do so.
>>97533791I mean, yeah, he's obviously extremely easy to recognize. Not sure what that's going to accomplish. One you see him you can't unsee him.
>>97533818>Not sure what that's going to accomplish.Reeks of desperation.
>>97533700>We've seen you flood a thread for HOURS with a puppet show of shitposts with yourself.>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96881801/#q96887950omfg that's hilarious whoever did it is a genius
>The ongoing and desperate attempt to 'Nuh uh, I am rubber, you are glue'Pathetic
>>97533804man it just sucks because i like all types of games, the first decade stuff, 2e, NuSR stuff, all of it is fun to me in different ways and i don't see why we couldn't have different threads for different styles of game, i don't understand why he's so dead set on having the OSR thread be open to all of it, like i said above it's literally a free site where anyone can just make a fucking thread to talk about whatever they want. as much as i'm annoyed with everyone shitting up the thread, i'm starting to see where you OSRfags are coming from with this guy, i don't think he even plays anything, he just wants to throw a shitfit and it's frustrating that the mods just let him do it.
>>97533834fishfag would be pathetic if he weren't revolting
>>97533842yup.they've been enabling him for years at this point
>>97533832The fact that he's incensed about it is hilarious. The idiot expects to be able to create copycat threads at his leisure and not receive any kind of pushback.
>>97533761Here's the thing.>OSRFag here, it's literally just one autistic troon who thinks 2e can be a wedge issue to shit up /osrg/ to 'own the chuds'This is your lie. It is the lie you depend upon.The truth is that multiple people are aware that you are trying to turn the /osrg/ into the /brosrg/. One of them even made a whole thread just to mock you about it. Every other website has basically already dealt with this issue, and reacted to it largely in the same way: getting annoyed with the BrOSR and warning each other about them so as to not fall for their braindead rhetoric and autistic efforts to gaslight everyone about what the OSR is. >>975267434chan is a little different, in that the OSR population is incredibly small. It's down to maybe a few dozen people at the most now, and along with its anonymous nature makes it incredibly vulnerable to even just a small group of BrOSR, or even just one lone BrOSR with no life beyond trolling on the internet. We've even seen you play historical revisionism in this very thread >>97526355, and you've been trying your hardest to change what OSR means, just like the other BrOSR have tried. The problem for you is that you will never change what OSR means, because you do not control the OSR. No one does. All you can do is control your tiny little subsection, and that subsection is what people now just call BrOSR.Remember how the BrOSR tried to say some OSR games were not actually OSR, but gave them the derogatory name NuSR? That's kind of what's happened again, except it's the rest of the OSR community going "Oh. Fuck those BrOSR guys, their philosophy on games is retarded" and hitting you with your own label.
>>97533842>i don't understand why he's so dead set on having the OSR thread be open to all of itPure retardation on his part? Monumental narcisstic rage? An autistic fixation to end all autistic fixations?Maybe his shoes are 2 sizes too small?Someone told him "fuck off retard" about ACKS 2-3 years ago and he's had a medical case of the huttbutt ever since.He tried merging the 3.5 and Pathfinder threads a while back and was calmly told to fuck off by the locals. Watch him now repost him falseflagging in that thread pretending to be people from /osrg/ at the time
>>97533775I do what I want, and I don't listen to third-world ESL nogames who can't make a functional character sheet>>97533864These misconceptions and delusions that you are obsessed with are so fascinating. At this point I wish the things you were saying were actually true, because you honestly deserve to be maliciously targeted at this point
>>97533864>This is your lie. It is the lie you depend upon.No amount of you claiming up is down and left is right is going to change the facts of the matter.Cope if you like, seethe if you must, dilate because you're past the point of having a choice in the matter, but if you expect the rest of us to feed into your delusions then you're on the wrong site, buddy.Now why don't you go back to talking about how ACKS players are after you with their air looms, that's far more entertaining than when all the BrOSR schtick you've been doing recently.
>>97533864>fishfag repeating the same schizo bullshit for the hundredth time like it's going to convince anyonenobody reads what you write anymore, fishfag
>>97533866I mean, his psychology is pretty clear at this point. The autism, the literal inability to comprehend rules, the fact that he isn't even familiar with 2e.The real question is why he's being enabled.
>>97533864>gave them the derogatory name NuSRi thought the guy who made Cairn coined the term "NuSR"? i remember watching an interview with him and a few other OSR/NuSR people where they talked about it. either way i like a lot of "NuSR" games, like the Without Number series, and i use the term in a completely non-derogatory way, i just think it's a good way to differentiate between different styles of play.
>>97533798That's kind of the nature of the OSR. There's a lot of different definitions involved, and the only way for their to be peace is to accept people will have different opinions. It was a "movement" that existed on several different forums and involved thousands of people with millions of different experiences, so it's no surprise that there is a lot of diversity within the OSR community even about just what the OSR is. Hell, there's even differing opinions on what the letters OSR stands for.The majority of the OSR community understands this. It is only tiny little subgroups that attempt to demand that the rest of the OSR community must follow their singular definition instead.
>>97533893>the guy who made Cairn coined the term "NuSR"Fishfag just likes to make shit up to stir shit up. No point trying to talk sense into him.
>>97533864Do you have a single 2nd edition character sheet that you could display for us? This has to be one you have made yourself, but it doesn't even need to be a character you've ever used, I just want to see how far you've come
>>97533905Yeah, but any normal person interested in discussing games would have made a different general with a different name for the broader definition of 'OSR'.
>>97533926I don't think he's interested in discussing games at all. He has demonstrated fundamental and basic misunderstandings of even the most simple concepts of the game, and is physically incapable of creating even a level one character sheet
>>97533926>any normal would have made a different generalfishfag tried to do it a couple years ago: look up /todd/ in the archives. Most Anons from /osrg/ even supported the attempt, having two generals with two different names is just the only reasonable thing to do.Only /todd/ never received enough traffic, and once he realised it was a failed project he decide to try and conquer /osrg/.
>>97533926yea i literally said this to him already, i don't think he actually wants to talk about games at all i think he just wants to throw a shitfit. he could just make "NuSR General" or some other shit and talk about whatever he wants there, but it seems his specific autistic hyperfixation is getting a bunch of 4chan grognards to accept his particular definition of "OSR" for some fucking reason. i don't even have much of a dog in this fight, i just wish this dude would fuck off and stop ruining the 2e thread.
>>97533893NuSR began as being deragotory, a way to say "These games are not true OSR". The ironic thing is that a lot of creators are calling their own games OSR-like/OSR-adjacent/OSR-lite, as an effort to separate their games from some of the negative reputation that the OSR has gathered from people like the BrOSR. Particularly on sites like Twitter or Reddit, where the BrOSR were quite active, the OSR got a bit of a reputation as being gatekeeping autistic guys who play old games with no regard whether they're actually fun or not, and many new creators would much rather try to sell their game as "OSR, but better". And, in cases like Shadowdark, it ended up working. I like a lot of "NuSR" games as well, and for the most part it's become a largely neutral label. However, it shouldn't be forgotten that NuSR still fall under the umbrella of OSR. The current "crisis" in the OSR community is probably actually tied to the general culture war, which is so fucking dumb. Both BrOSR and NuSR are OSR, and if the BrOSR would just learn how to not demand that only their version of BrOSR is true OSR, then there might be a chance for the OSR to rise above the ridiculous culture war shit.
>>97533893No, NuSR as a term actually originated here on /tg in 2020/2021, first as a rare derogatory term for those games, then as some cheekily named, short-lived NSR generals (before NSR was a thing). They were having fun with the idea of it being fake OSR and just decided to roll with it. It was picked up by the Simulacrum blog to describe NSR stuff (again, before that term became a thing) and then the term spread about along with the essay on OSR history.
>>97533973>NuSR still fall under the umbrella of OSRsee this is where i just stop caring. if the OSRG guys want to talk about specifically the first decade of games, why should i give a fuck? why should i go in there and try to change their minds and make them talk about 2e if they don't want to? it's really not hard to just make a thread to talk about other editions, i actually quite like the idea of having a 2e general, even if it probably wouldn't get a lot of traffic. i just don't understand the obsession with making sure everyone agrees that 2e or anything else is "OSR", that label means nothing to me.
>>97534028>NuSR started as a reaction to the BrOSR>>97534031>NuSR started on 4chan in 2021The bullshit fishfag comes up with out of desperation is absolutely fucking hilarious. A quick search on Google Trends shows that it dates back to 2017/2018. And literally nobody gives a fuck about the BrOSR and is going to change labels because of them.
>>97533905basically thisalso I wouldn't mind if /osrg/ would be about a subsection of osr-movement games would it be based on any sort of reasonable criteria and not just personal preferences and biases of a couple of retards who got nothing going for them outside of wasting entire weeks on the internetwhich they can't do because they are borderline mentally challenged
>>97534054And if you compare "nusr" and "nsr" you can clearly see that the two terms are interchangeable, with "nsr" being substantially more common, because whenever one goes down the other one goes up.
>>97534067>I wouldn't mind if /osrg/ would be about a subsection of osr-movement games would it be basedWhat kind of fucking retarded pidgin is that, you fucking ESL subhuman?
>>97534031Please, don't pretend like the trolls who are trying to redefine what OSR is are "OSRG guys". They're just BrOSR trolls. And, no one is forcing those trolls to talk about 2e in the /osrg/ just by not having the /osrg/ exclude 2e (and other OSR games). They don't have to engage with any post they don't want to, like any post about any game someone isn't interested in. However, it's kind of important to be able to discuss 2e in a discussion about OSR. Not only is it an OSR game itself, there is so much material in 2e that is 1:1 compatible with other OSR games that it's ridiculous to try and exclude it.Going into the archive, and you can see that 2e was frequently discussed in the /osrg/ just because of the natural tendency of people to want to explore older editions and find interesting ideas, with 2e having a plethora. Even on Dragonsfoot, which started off as a 1e specif forum, 2e has become about as popular as 0e, with roughly the same amount of threads and posts. On other OSR forums, it's even more prominently discussed.Trying to exclude 2e is pretty much unnatural and will always end up facing resistance, because it's naturally a part of the OSR.
>>97534054>implyingLMAO you are such a fucking retard you can't do anything right
>>97534086LMAO >>97534110Mr. ANAList lol
>>97534109>Going into the archive, and you can see that 2e was frequently discussed in the /osrg/Yes, to say that it sucks ass.
>>97534110in reality is basically an nonexistent term compared to OSRHow bizarre? You would think with our regular retards that OSR is only a tiny sub-fraction of osr-adjacent games with most games falling into NuSR/NSRIt's almost like they are trying to gaslight anons into following their retarded lingo
>>97534171whoopsiehere is the forgotten picsorry anons, I'm laughing so hard I almost pissed my pants
>>97534165No. Most of the discussion was positive, or at the very least neutral.I understand you're either trying to make a pot-shot joke or trying once again to just spread misinformation, but 2e discussion in the /osrg/ was little different from the discussion on any other OSR game. Even just a casual dive into the archive, particularly in the older /osrg/ threads, shows this.It's actually kind of refreshing, to see real people having real discussions about OSR games, and posting in the fashion people on 4chan actually do.
>>97534110Nothing to do with it, nusr-et accounts for a tiny fraction of nusr.
>>97534195>Most of the discussion about 2e was positive or neutralKeep making bullshit up, fishfag
>>97534212>a couple dozen cherrypicked postsPut a lot of effort into that image, eh? Really had to look through several years of posts just to find them, eh?Really invested so much of your time just in hopes of gaslighting people, when anyone can just look into the archive for themselves and see how full of shit you are, eh?Why pull the same move when you know how bad it looks for you? Do you even realize how cherry-picked that image is, because it's laughably so.
>>97534253The best part is most of those posts were butthurt troll replies to someone saying something positive about 2e. Retard is undermining himself with his own posts.
>>97534253>>97534260>Fishfag always posting two replies to make it look like he's more than one person.>They're both equally retarded.
>>97534203>Nothing to do with itLMAO what a fucking idiot!it's literally the same curveyou are an idiot, an imbecile, a dimwit, a sub100IQthat's the core of this /osrg/ situationyou are simply to stupid to participate in a meaningful discussionit all makes sense now
>>97534458>trollcow showed of his autism alongside his willingess to attempt to cherrypick data in hopes of gaslighting the board>gets called out on it>desperately tries to perform the most pathetic damage control by just trying to rush past what was said against him in yet another attempt to distractPathetic.
>>97534488anybody wants to be in the screencap to forever solidify fishfag-fag's (aka anti-2e-fag) actual mental retardation?
>>97534558...shouldn't we just be better than him?
>>97534109this doesn't answer the question of why i should give a fuck though, and why you can't just post about 2e in another thread like this one. i don't even disagree with all your points entirely, but you seem to misunderstand the nature of this board. if when you post about 2e in osrg people flame you, you can literally just start a new thread somewhere else to talk about it. are they morally right to flame you? is their particular interpretation of "OSR" more correct than yours? i don't know and i don't care, it literally doesn't matter, this is just how the internet works. i see most people in osrg don't want 2e discussed, i move somewhere else to talk about it. it's really easy to do.
>>97534776>if when you post about 2e in osrg people flame you, you can literally just start a new thread somewhere elseHe could, but his goal is to flamebait and disrupt conversation, not to discuss 2e, if you haven't noticed.
>>97534776>i see most people in osrg don't want 2e discussedThat's not the truth of the matter though. You're looking at a loud minority, who use every trick imaginable to try and inflate their appearance while attempting to diminish the dissent, and have done their best to drive off anyone who disagreed with them (with the /osrg/ now just a fraction of what it was even just a year ago).Everything from putting on puppet shows to their ridiculous "all dissent is just one person" lie is just them hoping to abuse 4chan's anonymity while gaslighting, shamelessly even. Even you acting like a semi-neutral party raises severe doubts, because it really would take someone incredibly gullible to take the BrOSR at their word or believe anything even remotely aligned with what they try to say, when every word they say is some kind of lie. I can easily test whether you're actually a real person (or just trollcow pretending) by asking if you actually think their fishfag is real, because no one who could get past the captcha would still be dumb enough to fall for their narrative. Overall, if you are real, you really probably shouldn't care too much. At best, you should care that either a no-life individual or a small group of no-lifes are trying to establish a precedent where if they decide to commandeer a small general and redefine not only its scope but attempt to enforce a particular view within that general, they imagine they can do it without people calling them out on it. 2e is OSR, and was always freely discussed in the /osrg/, as it should be, and fighting that in order to try and impose a narrow, psychotically-controlled definition of OSR is something that the BrOSR attempted just about everywhere else, and failed. They will inevitably fail here The reason they don't see how hopeless they are is something I can see from my perspective, as well as everyone else who calls them out. That they're being called out constantly, by endless people, and endlessly will.
>>97535089>if you actually think their fishfag is reali have no idea, from where i'm sitting it looks like there are 2 or 3 people arguing in favor of what you're saying (including you) and a couple more than that arguing that 2e isn't "OSR" and clowning on you and the others and calling all of you "fishfag". i really don't care that much either way, as i've said multiple times, i just want everyone to stop shitting up the 2e thread and instead talk about fucking games for once.
>>97534776>if when you post about 2e in osrg people flame you,Not people, just trolls. So who cares.>you can literally just start a new thread somewhere else And so can they if they want something other than an actual OSR general. If they want a BrOSR general, they shouldn't disguise themselves as OSR just because they know how unpopular the BrOSR are. Even right now they're saying shit like how they're the only ones who play "real" D&D and thinking that's not the kind of attitude that got everyone to hate them in the first place.> is their particular interpretation of "OSR" more correct than yours?It's wrong in just about every way. Historically, it's demonstrably wrong. Even just "Is it actually more fun?" is less important to them than "How does it prove I hate later editions?" The only way their interpretation works is if you avoid any opinion or fact except those they provide, which is why they need a hugbox so badly.>i see most people in osrg don't want 2e discussed, i move somewhere else to talk about it.You see trolls who lie to you and keep getting caught lying and they still keep lying so why are you believing them or obeying them like you actually think they own the general or that a general can be owned.
>>97535199>why are you believing them or obeying them like you actually think they own the generallet me break it down for you yet againthis website is free. you can just make threads any time. you can go into threads and talk about whatever you want as long as it's on-topic. it's much easier for me to simply talk about 2e in a thread dedicated to it, or somewhere else, if a bunch of people in osrg (whether they're trolls or whatever, i really don't care) don't want me talking about it there.again, i am not making moral arguments here. i'm not making a judgment call on whether or not it's good or bad that they don't like 2e and don't want it discussed there. i just don't care enough to throw a giant tard fit over it.
>>97535218Anon, your heart is in the right place, but you're wasting your time. We've tried to be nice to fishfag years ago, when he first showed up on /osrg/. He has shit up every single osr-related thread with his autistic fits, whether it's /osrg/, /2eg/, or /nusrg/, and has every intention to keep on doing so.You will soon realise that it's pointless to assume good faith on his part and that, in fact, by engaging with him you're only enabling him and encouraging him to create more disruption.
>>97535218>this website is free. you can just make threads any timeWant me to tell you what happened with the /nusr/?Someone made it. Maybe they were genuine. I don't know.For a few weeks it was really popular. More popular than the /osrg/ even.Then the trolls from the /osrg/ started shitposting in it. Doing shit like flooding it with posts about ACKS and being right cunts.Eventually, people stop going there. But the trolls kept bumping it. Really bad, really obvious bumps, just before it fell off once a day.Turns out the reason they kept it bumped is so they could post "go to the /nusr/" to anyone who wanted to talk about those games in the /osrg/.Eventually, they gave up bumping that thread. Too hard to keep two threads they've killed bumped simultaneously.Appeasing trolls doesn't fix shit. It just makes them feel more entitled and is exactly what they want.
>>97535299I was on the NuSR general, that's not at all what happened.
>>97535218You don't get it. He doesn't just want 2e to be discussed on osrg, he also wants 2e to be discussed ONLY there. Did you miss him jump into conversations not to contribute to them, but only to tell Anons not to post here at all, and post on /osrg/ instead? >>97523627>>97525482>>97525717He doesn't want to discuss 2e. He doesn't care about it. He has some kind of weird kink for disrupting generals.
>>97535310That's exactly what happened.The first threads took only a few days to hit bump limit.After the trolls in the /osrg/ arrived and started shitposting and everyone left, it took several weeks for the next thread to hit the bump limit.The /nusrg/ was supposed to be an escape from them. When people realized that it was just another place for the trolls to ruin, the thread died.
>>97535299>>97535349The last thread took almost a month to fall off the board, and it didn't even hit 200 posts.>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/97162687/It had become what the /osrg/ had become: a mix of the trolls arguing about their fishfag and just really dull posts replying to each other in a fairly unnatural fashion. You can see most of those are made with 6-12 hours in between them, just to bump the thread.Similar thing with the previous /2eg/ the trolls had made and kept bumping as place to redirect people from the /osrg/ to.https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96893030/#96893030They really have this particular style of dry, dull post they like to use often. That, in between a whole lot of just plain and simple trolling.
>>97535336>He doesn't just want 2e to be discussed on osrg, he also wants 2e to be discussed ONLY there. Nice false representation, Trollcow.Nobody wants /osrg/ to be /2eg/, they want 2e to able to be discussed in the right general, as it is an OSR game whether you like that or not, and nothing you say or do will change that.
>>97535408You should compile some screencaps of trollcow/the BroSR trolls activity and behavior.
>>97535433I just checked in my screencaps folder, and I actually had two of his posts capped.One of them is actually even relevant to what's being discussed now, because it's a post declaring he hated the /nusrg/, all while flaunting that he didn't care if he got banned.
>>97535427Shameless of you to deny it after repeatedly telling people not to post here, fishfag>>97523627>>97525482>>97525717>If I keep calling everyone "trollcow" or "BrOSR" or "ACKSHILL" it will make my nickname go away.We've already explained to you that it has the opposite effect, fishfag. You have easily identifiable characteristics, which is why there's a bunch of people calling you fishfag, while you're the only one using those nicknames out of desperation.
>>97535481You collect nicknames from different people, because they're just honestly giving you a nickname.You, on the other hand, are desperate to try and create a bogeyman out of multiple people, and not even people who argue with you about the same topics, just anyone who argues with you about anything.The funny part about all of it is that you're the guy who decided you wanted to be both ACKShill and trollcow, and I'm betting some of the people who know you as ACKShill or as trollcow or whatever other names you've gathered don't even know you're called by those other names. People just sort of see you say dumb things, scream "FISHFAG" when people tell you that you're dumb, and then hit you with a nickname according to whatever happens to be your current focus of trolling.
>>97535481>hey everyone, post in my troll threa- I mean, my totally legit 2e thread!You already tried that before.https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/96893030/#96893030And telling people to post in the /osrg/ instead of posting in your troll thread made to try and keep 2e out of the /osrg/ is not the same as trying make 2e only discussed in the /osrg/.
