>>97601402
For some reason, the OG thread got deleted for being a "troll post"
How this OP identical to the last ine is considered a "troll post" is nothing short of people abusing the report system, i refuse to take that lying down and capitulate to people attempting to hijack this general for personal motivstions. This thread shall eemain up and if its taken down, ill be going straight to admins.

>>97601421
Welcome to the /osrg/! Could you care to contribute to this general? Post a character sheet perjaps? Talk about the games youre playing?

>>97601402
>real op is up
Thank you anon. The hijacked first decade crap plus the fake "please and thann you!" Nauseating posts don't fool anyone.

>https://drive.google.com/file/u/0/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view?usp=sharing&pli=1a
That's actually a pretty good doc. Maybe one shade more relaxed than I might personally agree with, but I'm guessing the guys who wrote it are trying to help correct the steering a bit.

Another faggoty hijack attempt, huh?

>>97601611
Post a character sheet.

fishfag hijack thread, report and hide

>>97601402
Reposting this question since it didn't get an actual answer:
so how does XP for gp actually work in practice?
Say a thief has robbed an NPC, so it's not gold from the dungeon, does it grant thief the XP at 1 to 1 ratio?

>>97601659
>abusing the report systen
Let's see:
>report thread
>mods examine thread
>see it's bullshit
>remove it
Where's the "abuse," chief?

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>>97601735
The basic concept is that XP for gold is a game abstraction meant to encourage players to go adventuring rather than spending all their time just training and studying.

If a thief pickpockets an NPC in a town, there's likely going to be very little effect either way, because the handful of silver coins a rich person might be carrying or the five or six copper a poor person might have is not going to amount to much.

But, if the PCs break into a noble's mansion, sneak past or eliminate their guards, and retrieve several hundreds of GP worth of jewelry and furs, they've basically just made the Noble's mansion a lair and experienced quite a few challenges, so they likely deserve the XP for the gold they took. Even if it might be relatively easier to have gotten that gold than it would have been to go travel to a dungeon to get it, there's going to be associated costs involved like having to travel to a distant town in order to have those items fenced.

Players sometimes getting more or less XP than they probably deserve is one of those odd quirks of XP for GP, but if it happens enough in both directions, it evens out.

>>97601659
No, no. You're the faggot hijacker. I understand that you're far too stupid for things like reading comprehension, but I meant you.

>>97601735
Actual answer:
You're understandably confused, but this is hijack thread populated only by the local osrg schizo and his samefags. If you have a question about how the osr works, I suggest you ask in the current /osrg thread, which is populated by actual human beings who have actually played games, and can be found here:

>>97600170
>>97600170
>>97600170

>>97601845
>this is hijack thread populated only by the local osrg schizo and his samefags.
Oh you mean the other thread, the one you linked, yes. That is the hijack thread. This is the real /osrg/.

>>97601828
Actually, i meant the other thread. Sorry, i shouldve been clearer. I was wrong after looking at the other thread, this is clearly the real one.

>>97601745
>see thread i dont like
>report it for "trolling"
>turn in working VPN or mobile data
>Report it a dozen times
Now, please post a character sheet.

>>97601945
>turn in working VPN or mobile data
lol, you retarded ESLfag. The next step is
>mods look at thread
>see if it's bullshit, and it is
>remove it
"Turning in VPNs or mobile data" cannot force the mods to delete anything, it doesn't work like that, stupid.

>>97601961
>"see if it's bullshit, and it is"
>literally just a regular thread identical to this OP, without the "welcome" blurb
Post a character sheet.

>>97602074
Don't play dumb

>>97601783
Thanks for the earnest answer anon.
I'm not a big fan of the gamist part of loot-as-XP myself. It seems very at-odds with the rest of OSR philosophy. Lately I've been thinking of instead having players use the services of NPC Trainers to gain XP instead, but I'm not sold on it yet.

>>97602107
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/97597951/#97597951
What part of this OP us trollish?
Also post a character sheet

>>97602120
>I'm not a big fan of the gamist part of loot-as-XP myself.
That's been a big controversy all the way back to the first printing of D&D. He even suggested options for alternative XP systems as far back as 1975, a year after the first OD&D printing. Players complained about XP for Gold so much that Gygax felt the need to personally defend it in the 1e DMG, and I think it's because by that point it had become part of the brand identity (since most other RPGs ditched that idea).

Some groups like it, some hate it. But, if the players are motivated and their immersion in the world is retained, I'm not going to cast judgement either way.

>>97602140
The part where it's one of a long series of hijack threads that alter the OP in order to include 2e, threads which have been posted (and deleted by mods) over and over since the /osrg/ OP was clarified to stop (You) constantly trying to insert 2e by waving at the words "broadly" and "encourages" that we removed, as if those would make 1991 part of the first decade.

Not to mention trying to convince everyone that the 2e thread is a "troll thread" and pushing them to go post in /osrg/ instead, which is blatantly obvious troll bullshit.

>>97602253
NTA, but i remember 2e always being a part of the /osrg/ (because it's an OSR game, duh). I'm pretty sure you're just making stuff up and I don't know how you think you can when we have the archive.
Can you shut up now?

>>97602279
>i remember 2e always being a part of the /osrg/

Your brain damage does not decide thread direction, fishfag.

>>97602279
>because it's an OSR game, duh
Then why is nearly every piece of advice in the 2e DMG antithetical to the OSR?
Don't bother, we both know the answer already, fag

>>97602120
aren't trainers described in 1e DMG as an optional rule?

>>97602327
>we both know the answer already
I mean, yeah.
Your definition of OSR is just built around trying to exclude 2e, so of course to you every little difference between it and 1e, real or imagined, is going to be anthetical to your invented and manufactured definition of OSR. But, the popular definition of OSR used by the majority of people who play OSR games is much more broad (and less retarded) than your definition.

>>97602461
>argumentam ad populam
>>>/reddit/

>>97602478
>attempts to call ouy an anon for "argumentam ad populam"
>from the "The OP has been the same since 2019 due to """consensus""" " guy
Post a character sheet

>>97602478
That's not how that fallacy works.
If we're talking about something like "commonly understood definitions", it's correct and proper to use more people leaning towards one definition than another as evidence. Definitions are a matter of communication, and the more people agree on a definition, the clearer the communication.

>>97602564
>Fishfag character sheets get laughed off the board
>Uno's to begging for sheets
you're too precious anon

>>97601945
How do you think reports work? Like there's a magical number and it automatically deletes the post of enough anons report it? Are you that fucking dumb?

Fishfag hijack thread, he even admitted here: >>97601420
that he already got one deleted for trolling today.

>>97602074
Posting duplicate generals when the active one is still far from the bump limit is also frowned upon. I see you're still mad af about getting caught out over the character sheets though, kekkkkk

Literal nogames seething

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>>97601560
>Your Table is Yours
There has to be a better way to phrase that.

>>97603134
>Are you that fucking dumb?
How can you possibly need to ask that question at this point?

>>97603131
>deflection
Post it.

>>97603519
>Literal nogames seething
Projection. You sure love spending a lot of time trying to drag down a thread instead of playing.

>>97603994
This isn't a thread, this is a shitpost by a salty nogames trying to derail a general. It can't be dragged further down than it was by the OP.

>>97604022
>this is a shitpost by a salty nogames trying to derail a general.
Every accusation is a confession. That a plain general simply omitting an opening blurb is considered "trolling" really says it all

>>97604064
You really love that I introduced you to that phrase, huh? Really helps streamline your gaslighting bullshit, huh?

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>>97604064
>there is no such thing as a history to this trolling
But yeah, even that aside, totally razing the long-established OP of a general is a blatant trolling attempt, yes.

>>97604079
Yeah, just because it looks innocuous doesn't mean shit. How many people remember the Ultima Online "Hi" story?

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>>97603982
here you go :)

>>97604064
>That a plain general simply omitting an opening blurb is considered "trolling"
That's literally a matter of life and death.

>>97604064
fishfag, you dont (and mentally cannot) play games, let alone make a character or discuss rules mechanics

>>97602279
>I remember total bullshit because I'm a troll
fish for brains

>>97604239
>>97604387
Post a character sheet.

>>97604239
lol gotem

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>>97604079
> totally razing the long-established OP of a general is a blatant trolling attempt, yes.
Yes it is! And fun fact, you've been doing this little autism spit on and off for the last *EIGHT YEARS*
Your first attempt (i can find) was this thread
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/60668651/#60668651
Your next on record attempt was
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/72332530/#72332530
And you've tried a few other times since then, notably
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/91106200/#91106200
Where you linked the """/osrg/ discord"""
And then of course in october where you've inflicted your presence fully on the general
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/96799302/#96799302
I must say i'm Impressed at your sheer autistic lex luthor loathing levels of grudge towards 2e. Only a faggot of Iron tard calibre could do sich a caper. I have to wonder what happened when i presume you got kicked out of a 2e group and developed your vendetta, what "slight" put you on this path. Ultimately, i see you, /tg/ sees you, this board is not stupid. We aren't forgetting overnight or because you screamed loud enough.

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>>97604854
>You're the one who's been destroying the OP!
>For eight years!
Lmaoooooooooooo this is getting new levels of desperate previously thought impossible

Niggy, *even if your schizo ramblings were correct*, eight years is a long time, the new OP would be long-established as the real normal OP at this point *anyway*. It would no longer be a troll.

>>97604854
>We

>>97604916
He's showing how you've been an abject failure for quite some time, and what kind of intense psychopath you happen to be.

The amount that you samefag and shitpost while lying as hard as you can is done to a point where it's almost unbelievable until it's understood that it's basically your whole life.

>>97604952
>He

>>97604971
I understand you're just going to keep shitposting in this thread as much as you can (and that's quite a lot because it's your whole life), but do understand that what you're putting on display is how much effort you need to put into trying to trick /tg/.
What >>97604854 already showed is that you've failed several times before, and you will ultimately fail again, because you're trying your hardest to push against reality and that's not sustainable, especially because the more you push, the more people see you pushing.

>>97601783
A rich person could carry several hundred gp worth of jewelry that could be pickpocketed. Gems are a big deal.

>>97604952
>abject failure
I'm just going to skip over all your other deranged ranting and ask this: even supposing he's a single person, how is he an abject failure when every single thread for months has used his OP? And your faggoty hijack attempts, such as this one, are either deleted or swamped in posts mocking you personally? It looks like he's succeeding, frankly, and you're the abject failure.

>>97605110
Look at before and after your hijack. The /osrg/ population/post rate is less than half of what it was just since last September, and that's even with you doing your best to put on a show, with the driest, dullest conversations.
What you're terrified of is something like this thread; a potential display that your efforts to take control of a general are not as popularly supported as you pretend and would collapse instantly without a janitor erroneously assisting you.
A few months of error is a blip in the grand scheme of things, and the mods were initially on the side of stopping your hijack before that doxx event. Waiting for the mods to come around again is easy when we can see from our side you getting mad at different people while all claiming they're one.

>>97605250
>absolutely incoherent schizo blather
Yes yes, Fishfag, everyone else is one person and you're dozens, nay hundreds of people. That's why you can't overcome your hijack threads being crashed with no survivors, because you have the weight of posting frequency behind you. It all makes total sense!

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Why was gygax such a freak.

>>97605310
Is that Gary Gygax in drag?

Nicer legs than I was expecting.

I want to get an ACKS adventure, what do you guys recommend?

>>97605535
Are they all connected? It seems that some of the starting ones, AX1 to what... AX4? are all in the same area?

>>97605535
They're all uniformly bad.
Actually, to be fair, Dwimmermount is probably the worst, but all of them are incredibly generic and seem like an amateurs first efforts.

>>97605535
Great choice, glad you ACKSed! They're all great, but the interconnected early adventures are the best choice if you're new to the system. (And disregard >>97605579, he doesn't seem to have realized that he wandered into the ACKS General by mistake.)

>>97605548
AX3 is in fact the area itself.

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>>97605412
That's Gary's daughter.

>>97605535
lol
Get Nethercity.
It's so fucking bad.
The whole map is skewed up and is just the same fucking thing over and over again.
It's like someone trying to sell ChatGPT generated rooms. Except every so often you read a line about incest or rape and you have to shake your head over that weird sort of cringey edgelord shit.

It's the stuff that in any other non-LotFP game it could only be put in just as a humiliation ritual for the GM. But for ACKS it's what they actually think is cool lol.

>>97605685
If we're talking ACKS, than we got to talk about how bad it is and how dumb its fans are. That's just being honest.
But, you seem to be mistaken. This is the OSR general, and ACKS isn't an OSR game. It's barely even a game, and it's definitely not OSR.

How people try to sell a game with splat books that advertise how many new classes, spells, and feats they're adding as if that's what the OSR is about is a joke.

>>97605747
It's just one of the two topics that guy ever talks about when he's not trolling about how much he hates 2e. That's why if people leave his hijacked anti-2e /osrg/ thread alone long enough, it ends up him just pitching the most basic rules questions to himself and trying to shill ACKS to what he hopes is anyone who hasn't seen how bad that game is.
But, ACKS IS technically an OSR game (a BrOSR game), so if he wants to talk about it, there's no reason to try and stop him. Even with all their efforts they barely got 2k people to buy the game. It's basically a dead topic.

>>97605781
>his other maps are even worse

>>97605720
>Except every so often you read a line about incest or rape and you have to shake your head over that weird sort of cringey edgelord shit.
It's kind of funny, because people try to sell ACKS like it's this spreadsheet simulator, but it's actually a spreadsheet simulator infused with cringemaxxing energy when you actually look beyond the dry as fuck tables and procedures.

>>97605807
You're the guy who wanted to talk ACKS. Don't be mad that making fun of ACKS is as easy as making fun of a gay retard.

>>97604800
I did, here: >>97604239
Now you :)

>>97604854
>And fun fact, you've been doing this little autism spit on and off for the last *EIGHT YEARS*
>eight years
oh you fucking retard, 2e is not OSR

>>97605825
It's not good when you can describe a game as "mildly rapey."

The weird little corner of the OSR where ACKS and LotFP exist is such a fucking drain on the rest of the OSR.

>>97605720
that all sounds perfect, and you just sound like an angry anti-ACKS shill.
slow day on discord?

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>>97605870
>"mildly rapey"
That should be the tagline on the cover.

>>97605747
>>97605897
>>97605901
How much do you get paid to scan the board all day, anti-ACKS shill==fishfag?

>>97605870
>tranny nogames gatekept by rape
lol kill yourself fishfag.
2e isnt OSR
Rape is OSR

>>97605870
>not good when you can describe a game as "mildly rapey."
lol how about I mildly rape *you* nogames?

>>97605870
ACKS is by far my favorite OSR game

>>97605938
ACKS is my favourite rpg actually

>>97605938
Might be because you've also been described as "mildly rapey."

>>97605535
Every ACKS adventure is great. Don't listen to the gay faggot haters from rpgnet.

>>97605985
Now you're making it sound like it's a bad thing. You know 9 out of 10 people like gang rape, right?

>>97606003
Speaking of, is there a game with rape mechanics? Like, should it be a roll to hit? Saving throw allowed or not?

>>97605985
not my problem
>>97606018
AD&D grappling/overbearing/pummeling

>>97605868
why?

>>97606279
Because it wildly diverges from the OSR structure, making many nonsense alterations mechanically, while also seperating the game from the explicit gameplay loop, and making D&D non about dungeoneering/domain acquisition, but pre-planned story paths

>>97606279
Read what the 2e DMG tells you to do and you'll get why pretty fast

>>97605250
>The /osrg/ population/post rate is less than half of what it was just since last September,
You dumb faggot, that's literally because *you* aren't shitposting the thread to bits anymore. It was always a slow general.

>>97605720
>>97605747
>vibrating with rage and indignation that someone who doesn't acknowledge tranny delulu is getting praised
ACKS is a cool game and definitely OSR, unlike 2e which has never belonged in the OSR general. I don't play it myself, but it's obvious that its fans have good taste.

>>97605870
You only want heavily rapey?

Weird that a bunch of posts pointing out that the anti-ACKS posting is just a burst of Fishfag sperging were removed, but all Fishfag's autism (incuding the thread itself) is left up.

Even weirder that the post doing nothing but pointing out that the map from AX2 is drawn by Dyson Logos was removed.

>>97606279
That guy thinks that because he belongs to a cult that's built around trying to deify Gygax, including trying to erect a statue of him and to create a Holy day for him.

It began with Gygax's own efforts to become a celebrity, but has continued on with parasites like his children and a few sycophants like Mentzer that relied entirely on Gygax's name for their livelihoods, and who worked tirelessly to promote him as some kind of singular genius solely responsible for D&D's success.

Part of their efforts involved reducing Arneson's importance to the game to a point where in their scripture he is an illiterate manbaby who only communicated via pictographs he smeared on the walls in his own feces. But, another big part is looking at anything that Gygax wasn't a part of, such as 2e, and saying it lost the heart and soul of D&D and that the only true D&D's are the one's with Gygax at their lead.

That's the starting point, but like most cults the original message has gotten somewhat muddled over the years and the efforts to pretend there's greater meaning and purpose beyond being butthurt over Gygax being relegated to an optional (and unnecessary) accessory to the game and not a vital component. So a process of reverse engineering why 2e must be rejected began by looking at all the differences, and imagining that if you only construct an argument using exaggerated negatives with no mention of the positives, people may be fooled into agreeing with you.

>>97606406
that schizo rambling of yours has nothing to do with why 2e isnt OSR

>>97606420
That's probably because 2e is OSR.

The OSR began after 3rd edition dropped in 2000 and WotC stopped all support for 2e, and seemed to indicate that no pre-3rd edition material would be reprinted (since it would be competition for 3e). That's why the earliest "Old School Revival" discussions began roughly around 2002, with people doing things like trying to start petitions to show WotC there was an interest in older editions, and just generally trying their best to figure out how to preserve the older games from slowly disappearing. That's essentially what the "Revival" business was about.

If the OSR was instead a reaction to 2e, then it's quite strange to imagine that the OSR was acting like a secret cabal since 1989 only to emerge in 2002, and even then not voicing any strong exclusionary attitudes towards 2e besides a small minority within the OSR community.

>>97605866
Those aren't character sheets, they're a retard attempting to deflect. Both when they were originally posted and now. Try again.

>>97606470
2e is OSR
2e is NOT /osrg/
You need to learn the differnece.

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>>97605870
mild rape is OSR heritage. there's that cult leader in either The Caverns of Thracia or Dark Tower where captured PCs will get tortured and killed if they're male, but raped and left alive if they're (attractive) females.

and those were adventures written by a woman, not some problematic(TM) guy trivialising sexual assault. teenagers and adults know that bad things are bad.

>>97606297
which alterations prohibit OSR structure?
2e is literally 1e compatible
>non about dungeoneering/domain acquisition, but pre-planned story paths
those aren't mutually exclusive
oldschool B/X and 1e dungeoneering modules have a pre-planned "story"
also domain acquisition was never the goal of old-school dnd
building a stronghold usually meant retiring a character in the most oldschool Gygax or Arneson campaigns

cba with these flame wars and e-celebrity drama. can we just have one thread, and stick to it?

that last thread was deleted and with it went entire chains of discussion. i'm very interested in >>97598092, anon's idea we all make a 9x9 dungeon. if he can set up a template or set of rules, that'd be great.

did any of you guys do that challenge a few years ago, think it was 'draw a dungeon for every month of 202X' or similar? i remember following a few posters/bloggers who started.

>>97606325
gtfo if you have nothing to contribute to a discussion

>>97606365
>ACKS is a cool game and definitely OSR, unlike 2e
mechanically ACKS is less 1e compatible than 2e though

>>97606523
>2e is OSR
>2e is NOT /osrg/
if OSR games are excluded then the name /osrg/ is misleading

>>97606523
>>97606470
its not OSR or /osrg/
>>97606644
this has already been explained countless times, retard

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>>97606644
Things being "OSR" because somebody elsewhere said so is not a useful point of information, because all sorts of games that have nothing in common to discuss get called "OSR" out there in the DTRPG wastelands.

2e alters critically important OSR rules, and the DMG is full of terrible anti-OSR advice. It tells you to hand out XP for playacting your characters and achieving "story goals" and advises against XP-for-gold, which is the fucking backbone of a properly-understood OSR campaign.

2e isn't OSR

ACKS is great

simple as

>>97606721
What 2e is: shite
What 2e isn't: OSR
Glad I could clear it up for you.

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>>97606720
You're making mountains out of molehills all as described here >>97602461
Your definition of OSR is designed around excluding 2e, and has very little do with the OSR movement that categorically has always included 2e.

>It tells you to hand out XP for playacting your characters
As an option, while also offering Gold as XP, Class Actions for XP, Monster defeats for XP, and several more options.

You are making a simple mistake. You do not see that 2e wasn't written as if it were intended as a tournament rulebook, as 1e was. Gary wrote AD&D with a focus on "uniformity of play worldwide," because he was operating with the idea that D&D tournaments would be a big thing and would have a structure very similar to war game tournaments.

2e, recognizing that folly and how D&D rules were so heavily dependent on a DM's subjective interpretation that the idea of "uniformity of play worldwide" was functionally impossible and more importantly undesirable, instead stressed what players had been doing throughout 1e's run: making the game suit themselves.

2e is essentially 1e but with hindsight of 1e.

>>97606929
>several more options.
All of which are non-OSR bullshit. Like the rest of your post, actually.
"RPGs can be anything!" is a nice notion, but that's not what the OSR is, that's practically every other RPG that's been published. Fuck that noise, give me a game that knows what it is and does its thing well over a """toolkit""" that can do literally anything badly.

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>>97606720
>the fucking backbone of a properly-understood OSR campaign.
That is not the backbone. If it was, Gygax wouldn't have offered alternatives to it for OD&D.
Ultimately, it's actually arbitrary what is motivating the PCs to go adventuring, as long as there's some motivation. If you replaced Gold for XP with Relics (Artifacts that mostly serve just as a way to gain XP) as XP, you would have virtually identical campaigns, just with some easier bookkeeping. Replace Relics as XP with "Milestones XP, but the milestones are triggered when you return a Relic to town" and you've still got virtually identical loop as your Gold for XP. Hell, make the relics that triggers a milestone "A treasure chest filled with coins" and your narrow concept of Gold as XP is now Gold as Relic as Milestone XP.

But, Gold as XP has drawbacks that people have identified decades ago, including the specific math along with the XP being tied to gold leading the players to be flooded with gold but not having sufficient gold sinks, and also more importantly something as basic as a lack of flexibility. Gold as XP is not the greatest system, and while it's certainly flavorful, it's not the only way to run an OSR game, and arguably one of the weaker ways to do so.

Also, let's not forget that even 1e offered rewards (and penalties) for characters playing their classes, including penalizing thieves for not acting like kleptomaniacs. The differences is that the 1e rewards and penalties affected the length (which in turn affected the cost) of a character's training, meaning literally thousands of gold and months of game time depended on the DM approving of your "playacting."

>>97606929
>fishfag repeating the same rant for the thousandth time.
Don't care. 2e is still shit for storyfaggots and nogames who only read books.

>>97606986
>let's not forget that even 1e penalized thieves for not acting like kleptomaniacs
Usual retarded bullshit from fishfag.

>>97606986
>leading the players to be flooded with gold but not having sufficient gold sinks
Bullshit. Clearly you've never played in a proper OSR campaign. Unsurprisingly, since you can't even create a character sheet for B/X.

>>97607038
That's taken right from that screenshot.
>theives... who refrain from acquisition of an extra bit of treasure when the opportunity presents itself... these are all clear examples of a POOR rating.

>>97606986
>That is not the backbone
It absolutely is, it drives player agency and engagement. Anyone who says XP for gold is not important to the OSR play style is full of shit.

>>97606629
im not spoonfeeding you

>>97607118
>it drives player agency and engagement.
I'd argue that the opposite is true. It limits what the players can do to get XP and also has historically been seen as so unrealistic and un-intuitive that Gygax had to include a note trying to defend it in the DMG, and that note can be read >>97601783 He outright calls it a compromise.

If players wanted to do something like drop a heavy sack of gold on a monster from a high height in order to kill it, they should not have to consider losing the XP AND the gold, merely the gold (which is still quite the sacrifice). Players should be willing to explore areas that might not contain treasure but still have plenty of adventure, without feeling like they're being cheated unless they find piles of gold and jewels in the Bog Witch's Den of Filth.

De-coupling gold from XP lets DMs be more flexible and generally more fair, while the players can remain immersed in the world and thus engaged with it. The value of gold remains the (still incredibly high) value of gold, and doesn't exists as nearly the sole reason anyone does anything.

>>97607207
limitations are good. limitations are how you get a well made, tight-running game. go play sparkledog storyhour

>>97606944
>"RPGs can be anything!" is a nice notion, but that's not what the OSR is
That's you trying to pull a slippery slope.
No one said OSR has to be everything. Not even everything pre-WotC, like pulling in VtM or CoC and other non-D&D systems.
But, trying to excluding 2e from the OSR and then trying to define OSR just to try and exclude 2e is where someone would have to be a complete idiot to not realize how fundamentally flawed your argument is.

>Fuck that noise, give me a game that knows what it is
That's definitely not what OD&D or 1e was. When Gygax wrote both, he was still thinking of them in terms of wargames, including calling OD&D a wargame right on its cover. it wasn't until much, much, much later that he had a better understanding of the distinctions between an RPG and a wargame, something that many other writers and designers learned long before he did. Both Holmes and Moldvay seemed to have a better understanding of what an RPG was when Holmes wrote Basic and when Moldvay revised it.

When Gygax designed AD&D, he had no idea what it was. He thought he was making a strict universal ruleset people would adhere to around the world, so people could not just go from game to game and have similar if not identical experiences, but that tournaments could run with those rules as their foundation and provide a fair and balanced playing field for all. Certainly compared to OD&D it was far more concrete, but the irony is that lead to players introducing more houserules and exploring options outside the book to try and tailor the game to how they wanted it, as they had with OD&D.

You seem to be endlessly trying to bottle and cage what the OSR is, kind of like what Gary tried to do with OD&D by making AD&D. But, that's not the spirit of the OSR, as can be demonstrated by the proliferation of OSR systems and even by Gygax admitting that he preferred OD&D over AD&D.

>>97607319
I appreciate you giving well-reasoned explanations despite the hysterics of the "people" you argue with.

>>97607237
>limitations are good

Limitations aren't good or bad. They are a *tool*. You use them when they work. You set them aside when they don't.

>>97607137
>I actually have no argument
then why don't you finally shut the fuck up already?

>>97606470
>That's probably because 2e is OSR.
Sorry, no, 2e is not an OSR game, and as such, it does not belong in any thread labeled an OSR general. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

>>97606720
>It tells you
the 2e DMG has no strict XP award rules
It simply offers suggestions on how a DM might handle it
and XP-for-gold is an option
we've been over this already

besides Gygex himself uses what is mechanically identical to "story goals" XP in his modules.
In T1 roughly half of all value is in [don't read if you intend to play T1] the diamond tiara or jewelry or whatever in the final room
that's it, you beat the adventure, you get the XP
simple as

>>97606551
>and those were adventures written by a woman
kek

>>97606673
gtfo if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion

>>97607114
>extra bit of treasure
>kleptomaniacs
You're truly a retarded nogames, fishfag.

>>97607319
>trying to excluding
ESL retard

>>97607493
Discussion about 2e is off-topic, so not contributing to it is the right move.

>>97606634
>can we just have one thread, and stick to it?
As soon as this faggot stops posting these hijack threads, yes, absolutely. The present real thread is here >>97600170 if you have something genuine to post about. If you want this over with sooner, help report any duplicate threads such as this one which use a bogus OP.

>that last thread was deleted and with it went entire chains of discussion.
Lmao, there was no sincere discussion over those 40ish posts, it was all samefagged zero-effort astroturf.

>i'm very interested in >>97598092, anon's idea we all make a 9x9 dungeon
If that had been a sincere idea, he would have posted it in the real thread. I'm afraid you've fallen for bait. (Also, 9×9 is not really enough space for a solid dungeon.)

Anyway, TL;DR, if in future you have any genuine contributions to make, you should post them in the real thread, not this extended shitpost.

>>97607484
>treasure is a story goal
The bullshit you storyfaggot mongoloids come up with is hilarious

>>97606635
>>97607493
There is literally no discussion happening, just Fishfag writing categorically false fanfic about how the OSR started in order to try to force 2e into the definition (this fails every time) and anons heckling him for being such a massive retard.

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>>97607237
One of the biggest selling points of RPGs is just how few limitations they have, something that elevated them above board games as well as war games. Even today, they hold an edge over video games with billion dollar budgets by allowing players to perform actions beyond what any programmer could foresee and implement.

If what you really want is limitations, play a video game. If you prefer strict and narrow rules with a DM that acts like a computer, what you probably want to play is a video game. If using your imagination stresses you out and you just want to move numbers around, consider playing a video game.

>tight-running game
I prefer a smooth, flexible game that works well with players thinking outside-the-box over a hypothetical "tight" game that should work great up until it encounters players with a drop of creativity.

It's like a sword. A good sword needs to made of both softer and flexible steel as well as harder steel. If all you have is sword of hard steel because all you care about is having a sharp edge, you end up with a sword that instantly snaps in half the first time it hits something harder than an orange.

If all you've got is softer-than-an-orange players and you enjoy playing in the way you do, great. Well, not great, but I'm not going to stop you (though I guess I am going to judge you).

>>97607438
you asked for an answer, take it leave it.
>>97607417
tools are good if youre building something (a game)
>>97607493
2e is not OSR, and is off-topic
>>97607540
All games have limitations. Go play freeform RP instead

>>97606929
>all I need to do is claim that a style that has always and consistently categorically excluded 2e includes it for that to be true!

>>97606986
>if I simply declare that the backbone of OSR play isn't the backbone, it will stop being that!

Fishfag, you need to learn what "magical thinking" means, and stop doing it.

>>97607527
>The present real thread is here >>97600170 if you have something genuine to post about.
Unless it's about ACKS. It's MUCH more fun to talk about ACKS here. I think Macris's mechanics for shaded magic are fanfuckingtastic. I'm really considering running a campaign using only them. I really wish he'd port them over to ACKS II. They're fine as they are (much better than fine in fact), but Arbrethil has three posts about them with ideas on how to make them fully compatible with ACKS II.

>>97607523
not in this thread so suck my cock

>>97607484
>XP-for-gold is an option
automatically invalidating it for being OSR

>>97607207
>If players wanted to do something like drop a heavy sack of gold on a monster from a high height in order to kill it, they should not have to consider losing the XP AND the gold, merely the gold (which is still quite the sacrifice)
Yes they should. Of course they should. Why shouldn't they? An even more central case is dropping treasure to deter pursuit, which is right there in the books. At no point did Gygax or anyone else ever suggest that XP should still be gained for treasure PCs were forced to not recover. Which makes perfect sense since that would be obviously stupid.

>>97607207
>they should not have to consider losing the XP AND the gold
did they recover that treasure to civilization? No? Then no XP, retard

>>97607529
other half of treasure in T1 specifically is there to be what is essentially a story goal for the reasons described above, yes
you get them for simply beating the final big bad
I will be interested in counter arguments would you have any

>>97607536
my anon
if you are going to argue OSR didn't start as a response to WotC D&D you are either delusional, have been misinformed, or simply maliciously gaslighting other anons

>>97607577
>other half of treasure in
naturally should be read as over
over half the treasure in

>>97607577
>>97607599
Is this treasure that is being "guarded" and recovered, or treasure that is awarded by an npc outside of the dungeon?
>>97607587
2e is not OSR

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>>97607558
you should re-read your post

>>97607587
It started because of the OGL, not as "a response" to 3e, the explicit goal of early OSR community members was to resurrect 1e, with an undercurrent of Basic D&D fans -- not "everything before 3e" like you want to trick people into believing. Even OD&D was not a major focus of the early OSR movement.

>>97607540
>It's like a sword. A good sword needs to made of both softer and flexible steel as well as harder steel. If all you have is sword of hard steel because all you care about is having a sharp edge, you end up with a sword that instantly snaps in half the first time it hits something harder than an orange.
Laughably incorrect (as well as off-topic). Japanese smiths were forced to make blades in this convoluted way because their techniques were primitive and their ore was bad. Western blades of the same period are formed of a single steel throughout and superior in sharpness and durability. Likewise when people make those super-durable katanas now they're made in one piece, of one steel throughout.

The analogy here is obvious. OSR games are like the blade forged entirely from one steel: oriented entirely in one direction, they are superior in make and usability. Dogshit games, like 2e, are made from inferior materials with inferior methods, for vague and incoherent aims: the product is a laminate of disparate elements and will get permanently bent or broken the first time it's exposed to strain.

Anyway, TL;DR: kill yourself, fishfag.

>>97607577
>other half of treasure in T1 specifically is there to be what is essentially a story goal
Kek, the spergfest over this is great
I did this when some OSRfags begged me to take over as a DM after their last quit. They complained bitterly when I offered to run a real game, so instead I just ran what I wanted to but dressed it up as OSR. I only gave them loot when they went after what I wanted them to go after, treasure was only found when they followed plothooks, I giga raped them with random tables and unbalanced encounters the one time they tried to go off the path.
The game ran for 8 months and they loved it so much they're still in my games. OSRfaggotry is inherently pretentious and like everything pretentious it's hollow on the inside

>>97607601
>Is this treasure
would you just get to the point?
the pdf for T1 is easily available with a single google search, but as I said it is in the final room of the dungeon

>>97607602
XP for Gold is non-negotiable.
If a game is structured with that as an "option", its not OSR

>>97607553
No, this thread is labeled an OSR thread, so necessarily therefore 2e is off topic here, since 2e isn't an OSR game. Plus, 2e already has its own general, here: >>97568805 If you want to discuss this obviously non-OSR game, therefore, you can do it there. You shouldn't invade this general with your off-topic posting.

>>97607619
Oh, so its treasure that is being guarded, and recovered from the dungeon for XP.
Thats a "story reward" to you?
>>97607639
facts

>>97606986
>the players to be flooded with gold but not having sufficient gold sinks
holy FUCK you are still spouting this lie?

>>97601735
Early D&D wasn’t about combat.
It was about: Risk, Exploration, Resource management, Dungeon delving
Gold = XP was meant to reward: Entering dangerous environments, Outwitting traps, Avoiding monsters, Surviving the expedition
Town crime carries far less existential risk.
If stealing from random NPCs gave full XP, thieves could: Farm peasants, Rob shops endlessly, Level without adventuring
That breaks the intended gameplay loop.
No XP for “infinite exploit loops”

If players try to grind safe theft:
Referee shuts it down. Old-school D&D is referee-driven, not rules-lawyer driven.

>>97607587
I know you're badly retarded and can't information, but as Anon says, the OSR started because 1e fans saw a way to resurrect 1e using the OGL. It's only the happenstance of the OGL that connects the OSR to the WotC era; these 1e fans already wanted to resurrect it during the terrible 2e era, but at that time TSR was too litigious and it wasn't possible. The 3e OGL made it possible. And remember, 3e launched with the slogan "back to the dungeon", as it also wanted to repudiate the regrettable mistake that was 2e, so in conclusion we can say definitively that even 3e is a more OSR-adjacent game than 2e! Necromancer Games and Frog God even released modules in the 1e style for 3e, something they never did for the disgusting and anti-old-school 2e.

>>97607637
even if you start from that ground, your malding is still retarded
>a system introduces options
>table one uses options set A, because they don't want an OSR style game
>table two uses options set B, because they want an OSR style game

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>>97607561
>Why shouldn't they?
It's counter-intuitive.

A character performed an action that made their character grow as a person and was very much an experience. It may even have been a Magic-User who was following Gygax's idea of what he considers "excellent" play for a MU by avoiding melee. They defeated a monster, overcame a challenge, performed a bit of quick-witted action, and even created a memorable story. It feels like all the sort of things that a group would want to encourage in its players.

Dropping treasure in order to flee faster is really just a cowardly action. Dropping treasure in order to murder something, at the cost of losing that treasure, is in many ways a form of bravery, and is not running from a problem but solving it with a moderately innovative solution.

>>97607663
>Early D&D wasn’t about combat
I am very pro XP for GP, and very anti-2e,
but saying that early D&D wasnt about combat is completely and wildly wrong.

>>97607679
>A character performed an action that made their character grow as a person and was very much an experience.
What's that got to do with anything? Growth isn't what gives a player XP, gold is. Try to keep up, li'l fagballs.

>>97607678
>undermining the foundation of the game is actually a good thing!
also, in your example, group one, using option set A is using the default rules and by your admission is not playing OSR

>>97607644
>Oh, so its treasure that is being guarded, and recovered from the dungeon for XP.
>Thats a "story reward" to you?
it's the treasure (XP) that PCs get for dealing with the big bad in this adventure, yes, it's functionally a story reward for beating the module

>>97607716
PCs get XP from defeating monsters, and XP from the GP value of treasure guarded by monsters they defeat (if it's recovered to civilization)

If you think this counts as "story awards" you're categorically obtuse, dense, and retarded.

>>97607657
He has nothing but the same five lines on ponderous repeat. It's like an LLM hallucinating about the OSR, complete with the same tendency towards utter nonsense.

>>97607553
>so suck my cock
I'd love to suck your cock! Will you come on my face?

>>97607680
Sure you are fishfag.

>>97607746
Im convinced that he is actually a demoralization poster (whether AI, glowie, intelligence intern, etc) designed to make the site unusable for acutal users, and to prop up the illusion of traffic for advertisers.

I cant believe a real person would be so obsessed about infiltrating a community for a game that he cant figure out how to play.

>>97607577
>doubles down on treasure being a story goal
Retarded storyfaggot confirmed

>>97607764
Im not fishfag retard, im just telling you that combat is an inherent and fundamental part of D&D, especially OSR games where defeating monsters is how you get their treasure.

Are you one of those "combat is a fail state" tourists?

>>97607760
We're getting facials here?? Me too! Me too!!!

>>97607765
Never attribute to artificial intelligence what can be explained by literal autism.

>>97607777
Swims like a fish
>I'm totally against 2e but...
talks like a fish
>"Tourist", "fundamental",
and acts like a faggot...
Then maybe... It's a fish, a fish faggot.

>>97607605
Wrong on just about everything. Please, never speak again.

Only poorly made, primitive western blades were made with a single type of steel throughout, and they had to be considerably thicker (and heavier) in order to compensate. They had a single type of steel because the quenching process (or lack thereof) was applied uniformly.

As metallurgy evolved, so did the swords, and blades like rapiers actually ended up developing fairly complex quenching process in order to give it just the right characteristics of hardness and flexibility in just the right parts of the blade, with some smiths even performing multiple heating and quench cycles on different areas, requiring years of expertise to perform and relying on millennia of compounded technological knowledge.

>Likewise when people make those super-durable katanas now they're made in one piece, of one steel throughout.
You dumb fuck. The way they got the different types of steel was through different methods of heat treatment, including placing clay on the flats and some even doing an amazing edge-only quench before doing a full one. It's all from one "piece", but the hardness of the steel is different in different parts of the blade.

The analogy is obvious. You don't know fuck about games, so you wave a heavy club of a sword inexpertly and then demand that everyone also has to wield crude and ineffective weapons like you so you don't feel stupid. Meanwhile, people who are not idiots wield elegant blades that are far sharper, far lighters, and still far more durable than your primitive weapon made because you lack basic knowledge about metallurgical principles, and cut you apart whenever you try and contest them.

>>97607766
He's not even a storyfaggot. Fishfag is literally someone who's never played a game in his life and doesn't understand how RPGs work.

>>97607605
>I get my history knowledge from 1d4chan: The post

>>97607779
Hey! Get in line!

>>97607657
I'd love to hear fishfag do its stealing doorknobs thing again. Do you think there's hope?

>>97607716
You can literally just sneak past the "big bad" and steal it.

>>97607796
Fishfag is a troglodyte subhuman who loves 2e retardation and doesnt play games.

So how on earth does contradicting your assertion that "early D&D wasnt about combat" make me related to him in any way?

Combat is, and has always been one of the core aspects of D&D, along with recovering treasure for XP.

>>97607828
Sure, thats not going to be very easy in most cases, but in the case of dragons its a completely valid tactic. But recovering treasure is usually a fairly bulky, loud, and slow process, so you'll be quite limited to how much you can reasonably sneak off with, unless its something relatively small and highly valuable

>>97607765
>>97607785
He is a demoralization poster but rather than some elevated conspiracist concern it's it's just one of those horrible failed trannies from the trooned-out discord where Caveman hangs out, trying to get revenge for him being outed by sliding the thread and/or discrediting the OSR entirely on /tg/. He wants to make OSR discussion impossible out of sheer petty dickless spite.

>>97607798
lmao look at this dumb nigger confabulating about steel now as well after getting btfo yet again

>>97607846
>ome elevated conspiracist concern
m00t created /pol/ at epsteins behest, and intelligence companies/agencies actively create profiles from data here

>>97607798
>poorly made, primitive western blades
weebs are such scum

>Combat is, and has always been one of the core aspects of D&D
Someone let the mods know that he's changing his tactics.

Been running BX/OSE Classic fantasy for 3 weekly sessions now.
The players are preparing for an assault on a cultist hideout. The players initially were not excited about race-as-class and the lethality, but are now greatly enjoying the game.

>Highlights
Dungeon tracking turns are super easy to handle and flow easily. The procedural nature of the system tickles my autism
Random encounters have been a lot of fun versus preparing encounters with games like PF2e/5e
I feel like an actual participant in the session, and are often just as surprised by what happens every session
Piggybacking on the above points. I dont feel like DMing is a second job between sessions.

I wish I had tried these old school style games way earlier. I had no idea how much fun I was missing out on. I wish Exalted Funeral would ship my fucking books already though

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>>97607880
>The players are preparing for an assault on a cultist hideout
Bring it.

>>97607880
>procedural nature of the system tickles my autism
good for you, once it clicks, it clicks :)
>Random encounters have been a lot of fun versus preparing encounters
dont forget surprise, reaction, and distance rolls!

FAG on, bro!

>>97607880
You should repost this in the actual thread >>97600170 as this one is just a shitpost by a notorious troll. You're not liable to get any good or even sensible answers here.

>>97607856
>>97607859
To be fair, there's something thematically appropriate about him clinging to weeby misinformation about swordsmithing and blade quality, just the same way as he clings to the objectively shitty 2e.

>>97607929
Fuck off trying to mislead people.
Also, fuck off to that lonely LOSR thread and leave this one be.
Why the fuck do you keep going to threads made just to avoid you.

>>97607935
glorious nippon steel folded over9000 times

>>97607880
>I feel like an actual participant in the session, and are often just as surprised by what happens every session
I'm curious how it happens that you weren't being surprised in previous systems.
I know a few GMs that had a bad habit of really over-preparing (which might explain why it felt like a second job), and there's all sorts of problems that come from that. It's good that OSE helped expand your horizons and helped you find a better balance, but those lessons might be useful in other games as well.

>>97607980
It's not an east-vs.-west Armchair historian battle.
It's a basic understanding of heat treatment of steel, something smiths everywhere have to understand..

>>97607545
>tools are good if youre building something (a game)

Yes but you still need to know what tools to use at what time. A construction worker does not exclusively use a hammer for everything he's doing to build a house, right?

To untangle this tortured metaphor:

Gold for XP is a useful limitation for some kinds of games, but it is not useful for every kind of game - not even every kind of OSR game. It should be used when it makes the game more fun. It should be set aside when it stops the game from being fun. Because that's what a game is supposed to be first and foremost - fun.

>>97608090
I think I understand the confusion.

There are 2 types of "types" of steel being discussed.
There's types based on their composition, ie. carbon content (as well as other added elements), and these are usually called "grades".
Then, there's types based on the arrangement of those elements in different structures, either "phases" or "microstructures", that can be obtained via different methods of heat treatment, such as Martensite, Pearlite, and Bainite. To make thing more complex, these phases can be further treated, such as Tempered Martensite and Tempered Pearlite.

The "single steel" that >>97607605 is referring to is actually just a single "grade". However, through correct heat treatment, the edge/outside of the blade will be Martensite (your Hard, brittle steel), while the spine/core will be Pearlite (your softer, more flexible steel). You would not want a blade to be made entirely of either type, or even just a bad ratio of these types.

In theory, using modern metallurgy (we're talking 1920's and on), you could make a decent blade entirely of steel arranged in the Bainite phase (though it's quite difficult and needs modern equipment), but historically speaking a good sword was going to be M/P.

The key transformation to understand is that if the steel is rapidly cooled, it forms Martensite. Slower, Pearlite. It's much more complex than this, but that's the basic thing to understand. Cool a blade too quickly (like dunking it in cold water) and it can form too much Martensite and becomes brittle. Cool a blade too slowly, and it forms too much Pearlite and can't be made as sharp. So, ideally, edge cooled quick, core cooled slow.

The ways you could achieve this is varied, ranging from selective heating, selective quenching, or even the Japanese method of using different grades of steel which develop Martensite at different rates, alongside techniques such as Clay Tempering (painting everything but the edge of the blade with clay before quenching).

>>97608398
So, bla bla bla,
>>97607417
Proper ratio or whatever.

>>97607680
A wargame is about combat, the innovation at the heart of D&D that separated it from Chainmail and such is that it's about adventure, rather than combat. And "adventure' in the strictest sense of the word: a perilous undertaking risked in hopes of some kind of gain.

May have just been defeated by scheduling. Last group was absolutely wonderful, but only can manage to get 2 on the same night, and attempts to get more have been unsuccessful. Not really sure what to do about it.

Could cast a net into the wider internet, but hesitant about bringing in strangers. Like my best experiences have been with people with little to no roleplaying experience.

>>97608940
You can always try getting people you know who've never played RPGs and rope them in. I ran first sessions for most of my co-workers, at first just a few friends at work and then most of the rest because I didn't want to exclude anyone.

>>97608090


I want this to be a joke, but I fear that it isn't. So, here we go:

Katanas aren't that great, and most certainly aren't the greatest swords on Earth; no sword can cut through a block of SOLID STEEL.

Nobody spends years making a katana. They might take longer than most blades, but that isn't to fold them millions of times. The reason they are folded more is twofold (heh): firstly, medieval Japanese smithing techniques were inferior to European techniques - Europe in the middle ages was unmatched in the arts of killing, just look at history. Secondly, Japanese iron was impure as all hell, and they made the sword weak.

Another reason they took longer was because the blades were made in two halves, stuck together by something the name of I can't remember to provide, in effect, a spine for the blade. Otherwise they would be too brittle and risk snapping in battle like iron did.

Okay, so now that the annoyed smith in me is sated, time for the annoyed historian:

Europe didn't invade Japan not out of fear, but because they didn't care. It was well out of reach for them. Also, yes American troops did aim for the guys with swords during WW2. Not out of fear or respect for their combat prowess, but because they were more often than not officers. Best to leave your enemy disorganised and leaderless, after all.

>>97608723
>early dnd eschews combat

>>97607942
Seethe harder, faggot.

>Why the fuck do you keep going to threads made just to avoid you.
We've told you a hundred times, stop making fake versions of our general and we won't come bother you. Call them /todd/ or some shit, we won't care. As long as you claim to be /osrg/ and trying to make fake OSR Generals though, expect shitposting.

>>97608940
Find a hooker.
Tell her she can either get $75 for a DT BBBJTC, or $20 to sit in for a session.
Depending on how gross you are, they might take the $20.

>>97609027
>I'm so alone and boring that I need to spend all my time in a place everyone hates me just to get any attention
You really are the most pathetic person alive, and if you won't change the first part at least work on the latter.

>>97609056
>everyone
Well, first of all, you have to remember that we all know this is a lie. You're just one troll. It's obvious, it was obvious long ago, and there's no point clinging to the lie.

Man, he still thinks people read anything he says anymore, the dumb sod.

>>97609056
Secondly, you do realize, don't you, that there's literally nothing possible that's more pathetic than this crying seethepost right here? >>97601420
You're in no place to talk, or cry and shit yourself over this. Leave /osrg/ alone and it will leave you alone, t's very simple.

>>97609086
Thirdly, it doesn't matter whether you read it because even your own posts are helping to shred this thread by pushing it to bump limit. This thread contains literally nothing but your asshurt and anons pointing and laughing at you, then goading you to get mad again. You're spamming your own thread to death with your assrage.

>>97609028
Paying someone to play D&D with you is sadder than paying some for sex.

>>97608997
I have been trying, but haven't gotten enough interest to get something up and running. It is a bit demoralizing, particularly after how good the previous group was.

>>97609020
>Europe in the middle ages was unmatched in the arts of killing
That's a bit of a joke.
During the European middle ages, the Chinese Kingdoms and Empires were considerably more technologically advanced, and were killing people in such large and truly horrific battles (and massacres) that it can only be rationalized as a complete disregard for human life having any intrinsic value.

When European traders arrived in China, bringing their best fabrics, their best pottery, and their best weapons, the Chinese traders showed them silk, fine porcelain, and insane mass murder devices, and took their silver and not much else.

Europeans were pretty good at killing during the Middle Ages, no doubt. But hardly unmatched.

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>>97601402
are oats and pickles OSR?

>>97609159
stop replying with copypasta, faggot

>>97609159
>Europeans were pretty good at killing during the Middle Ages
Topjej, they spent 10 centuries barely able to even fight wars after the Romans fell. The only time it picked up was when they had a technological advantage, and now that that's gone they've never recovered.

>>97609197
>>97609159
t. katana wielders

>>97609159
>During the European middle ages, the Chinese Kingdoms and Empires were considerably more technologically advanced, and were killing people in such large and truly horrific battles (and massacres) that it can only be rationalized as a complete disregard for human life having any intrinsic value.
This is true, but it also must be said that they were killing primarily Chinamen, a species which even in the modern day is natural prey of inanimate objects and Liveleak logos.

>>97609200
Nah, The Japanese were also bad at warfare. They fought eachother and did it poorly until they got guns.

Don't care, 2e is still off-topic and everybody who claims otherwise is still a storygame retard at best and a nogames onlyreadbooks at worst.

>>97607828
>>97607839
>steal it
have you idiots even read T1, one of the most famous adventures written by Gary Gygax himself?

>>97607734
I understand your entire identity is under attack so it's not going to be easy for you, and I don't expect you to be reasonable anyway.
But YES
if the story is about getting a mcguffin from a dungeon, and like 50% of treasures by value in a form of convenient carry items are placed in the same place as the mcguffin...
if the story is about dealing with a big bad and 50% of treasures by value in a form of convenient carry items are placed in the room guarded by the big bad...
if the story is about a rescue mission and 50% of treasure are where the prisoners are...
you get the idea
THEN THE AUTHOR OF THE ADVENTURE IS PLACING THE TREASURE (and the xp) AS A STORY AWARD.

there are fringe cases, maybe the players might ignore the treasure as a joke or something
but for all intents and purposes most treasure that GG placed in T1 is a motherfucking story goal award and that's just a fucking fact

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>>97607766
>no arguments the post

>>97607880
Welcome aboard anon!
I understand you aren't playing any particular adventure module?

>>97609027
This is the correct version of the general dedicated to OSR and OSR games.
The general you linked is a fake thread that misleads anons into thinking they are entering an OSR thread, then in reality you only allow discussion on a specific subset of oldschool and OSR games.

There wouldn't be any conflict would you not have malicious intent of misleading anons and just have a proper name for your thread

>>97609532
>Engage with my schizo theories
No. Pointing and laughing is all you deserve, retard. Kill yourself.

>>97609523
>TREASURE AS A STORY AWARD.
lmao you're a fucking mongoloid

>>97609542
Kill yourself, fishfag

>>97609704
>>97609710
are you genuinely retarded, samefag?
it not even a question of xp-for-gold
any rewards (treasure, magic items, xp, anything) pre-placed to be gained after the climactic scene of a story are story rewards.
it's so fucking self-evident you are literally pointing at white and insisting it's black
that's what you've come to because you are coming into this with a false dogma

>>97609542
He knows the result if he were to be honest.
Him and the other two guys left in his discord, alone in a dead thread that people avoid because no one wants to talk about anything, let alone games, with joyless cunts who think they're the only ones who play "real" D&D.

>>97609772
>treasures are story awards
>twelfth time the subhuman repeats it in the same thread
>as if it were some genius discovery
LMAO this one is so retarded, even by its standards, that it belongs in the Fishfag movie.

>>97609834
Which discord are you talking about?

>>97609772
>it's so fucking self-evident
lol
lmao, even

>>97609867
>as if it were some genius discovery
Genius? Fishfag believes itself to actually be Jesus for saying that >>97609532

I'm starting to think "retarded" is not doing the subhuman justice. It's well past that point.

>>97609911
>believes itself to actually be Jesus
kek, he's not going to understand that one

>>97609834
>>97609888
Yeah, I'd love to know which discord that is.

>>97609867
>it belongs in the Fishfag movie
Absolutely, it's a gem. Will add it later.

>>97609772
>are you genuinely retarded
Yes, yes he is. You might as well ignore him, he's proven that he has no ability to argue whatsoever, hence why he relies solely on trolling to get any kind of reaction from anyone.
This thread is a great demonstration of just how poorly he understands games and even basic logic, and how happily he will embarass himself while hoping to spin it as all being part of some grand plan when he loses an argument and then tries to shitpost to distract people from that.

>>97609928
Beyond a certain level of stupidity, pointing and laughing is all the argument that's needed. You don't understand it because you're ALWAYS past that point.

Like when you unironically said that XP for gold causes players to steal brass knobs from dungeons to sell for a profit.

Only this is even more stupid.

>>97609928
>noooooo you have to engage with my schizo theories or I win
Shut the fuck up, subhuman

>>97609957
>>97609965
After all these years, fishfag still doesn't understand what a story goal is. Not very surprising, since he isn't even able to create a character sheet. He's genuinely too stupid for D&D.

>>97609928
>solely on trolling
don't forget samefagging
though I guess that's part of trolling.

>>97609996
lmao without us mocking you, this thread would all be you samefagging with your posts devoid of any actual content to simulate discussion, fishfag.

We're the solution to your samefagging problem, fishfag.

>>97610051
would you genuinely believe that you wouldn't be here
and you wouldn't be posting things like >>97607929

>>97610075
>would you genuinely believe that you wouldn't be here
ESL third worlder stfu

>>97609523
That is incorrect.

>>97609542
>This is the correct version of the general dedicated to OSR and OSR games.
That's wrong. You can study past generals and see that this is plainly false. You just have a grievous autism that makes you want to hijack the thread and also think that you can just decide this on your own, but you cannot.

>in reality you only allow discussion on a specific subset of oldschool and OSR games
Wrong. All OSR games are permitted to be discussed. Only non-OSR games such as 2e are directed elsewhere.

>>97609978
>doesn't understand what a story goal is
maybe I don't so why don't you humor me
modern 3e to 5e style adventure
>the party gets to the culmination point of the adventure and is confronting the big bad
>the party deals with the big bad
>the DM lists the rewards, magic items, treasure, XP as per the adventure
>obvious story goal rewards
T1 a classic 1e introductory adventure
>the party gets to the culmination point of the adventure and is confronting the big bad
>the party deals with the big bad
>the DM lists the rewards, magic items, treasure (converted as 1 to 1 to XP) as per the adventure
>OMG RAW XP for gold, TRVE OSR!!
what's the fundamental difference?

>>97610075
Reminder that this thread getting trolled to high heaven is part of trollcow/the BroSR brigades plan. He shits up/spams the thread he doesn't like so that it hits bump limit faster, and because his hijacked thread is up once this thread hits bump mods will just prune any attempts to make a new thread (Because they don't know any better) until that thread also hits bump limit.
His failing is assuming that once this thread does slide, we will all vanish into the aether and his hijacked thread will stay as the private chatroom echo chamber he (is failing and ultimately will fail at) is trying to prop up.
would be a shame if people spoke in his thread and ignored him.

>>97609772
>pre-placed to be gained after the climactic scene of a story
It is not. You can just steal it. A dungeon also does not have a "climactic scene".

>>97610104
what exactly is incorrect?
do you have anything of substance to say or is it just going to be
>nahuh sweet spoken in a black girl's voice

>>97609928
>nooo I'm getting owned, I'm getting owned!
>better reply to myself saying I'm right, everyone will believe this
kek

>>97610123
I can immediately tell you have never played, DMed, or even read in full the module in question
so why don't you just stfu

>>97610121
>why don't you humor me
Because you're a subhuman, fishfag.

>>97610122
If you make a copycat thread, the regulars of the general will shitpost it. That's how things work on 4chan. Call it /todd/ like you used to do, and nobody will bother you.

>>97610129
>what exactly is incorrect?
Your mother not having aborted you. Something she regrets every day, alongside, everyone you meet, fishfag

>>97610075
To be clear, when we post things like that post it's only to demonstrate how transparent your astroturfing is, since if they were sincere, the posters would instantly notice what a shitshow these threads are and repost, yet they "mysteriously" never do.

That kind of "I am new to OSR, let's talk about the very basics!" post basically never gets posted in the real thread, but every time you post one of these hijack threads and it gets left up for whatever inscrutable janny reason, there are half a dozen (because you don't actually know anything about OSR games so you can't fabricate anything but a a noobpost). Redirecting them to the real general serves the dual purpose of showing their fakeness and, if against all odds it's a real post, helping the newfriend get where he wants to go and avoid this garbage troll general.

>>97610147
see
I know you know you have no arguments and you are wrong
but agreeing in this specific case challenges your dogma that you've artificially set up to confine the world with what you are comfortable to believe in for some obscure emotional reason

I also know you are neither mature nor intelligent enough to admit you were wrong
but you having absolutely no arguments whatsoever is a concession I'm willing to accept

>>97610129
You are wrong.

>>97610163
>because you don't actually know anything about OSR games so you can't fabricate anything but a a noobpost
Hear, hear.
Fishfag can't make effortposts because he's too stupid.

>>97610163
>That kind of "I am new to OSR, let's talk about the very basics!" post basically never gets posted in the """real""" thread
is that a surprise?
you are a bunch of toxic faggots who are driving everyone away

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>>97610122

>>97610166
I've stopped even READING your posts years ago, fishfag. You're a waste of air and space and should kill yourself.

>-fag

remember when /tg/ was a better board than /b/?

>>97610176
>who are driving everyone away
I wish. We've been trying to drive you away for years, fishfag, but you still hang around because hijacking the general of games your don't even know the rules to is your whole personality.

>>97610190
Go back to enworld, you actual faggot

>>97610122
I think he's actively samefag flooding this thread as hard as he can because it's been particularly embarassing for him. He got whipped hard here, and all he can do is go "n-n-no, I'm the one laughing at all of you!"

>>97610129
>black girl
Tranny leftist faggot confirmed

>>97610176
lmao
Your claim is that totally new OSR players somehow psychically know never to post in the real general? But will cheerfully post in one of these troll cesspits? Kekkkkkk

>>97610190
>t. Assblistered Faggot

>>97610205
Sure, fishfag. You've owned so much this particular thread's retardation, "treasure is a story goal" will be immortalised in the purity spiral image and in the fishfag movie trailer, and we'll keep quoting it back at you as long as you stick around.

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>>97610205
>He got whipped hard here
Kek, it's always particularly funny when you tell yourself these little asshurt fables to console yourself.

is having gunpowder as a very new and scarce resource still osr?

>>97610216
I mean, yeah.
You tend to use really ugly OP images, spend most of the thread bumping it with ACKS (a game next to no one actually plays which didn't even get 2k backers) or incredibly specific rules no one cares about, and are generally incredibly offputting.
Even your OP text is more than enough to drive most people away, because you sound like a complete faggot with his head up his ass.

>>97610176
It's him classicly self-owning himself. I'd almost think the fact that even complete newfags instinctively know to avoid him would be something he'd realize is best kept to himself, but he wouldn't be the dumbest person on this board if he didn't self-own himself every third post.

>>97610205
>flooding this thread as hard as he can
Fishfag, even your deranged mind should retain enough memory to know this is just lazy mockery of your retarded ass. You got your trash spammed away much faster when the jannies killed the real thread accidentally. This is just 2-3 of us poking fun at you in our spare time.

>>97610250
Having laser guns as a rare resource is OSR.

>>97610252
>ACKS emits hateful psionic waves which keep OSR newbies out of the real general!!
LMAAAAOOOO

>>97610252
Not to mention how identifiable trollcow's posts are, he's been using the same images repeatedly like >>97610233 & >>97610177
it makes it incredibly easy to spot, not to mention the bouts of samefagging he does to bump his hijacked generals with the same fake positivity posts that do not come off as genuine.

>>97610266
>why does no one want to talk with me about a game no one plays in my fake general?!
>guess I need to shitpost as hard as I can in the thread everyone is in so I can say it only hit the bump limit so quickly because of my spamming!

If you weren't terrified of people seeing how unpopular you are, you wouldn't be so desperate right now.

>>97610205
>I think he's actively samefag flooding this thread as hard as he can
and yet you can't stop yourself from replying and contributing to the flooding, or even making it worse with your faggoty little fake discussion posts like >>97610250 >>97610259? if you had half a brain you'd know the right move if you don't want the thread shitposted into oblivion is to not contribute half the shitposts yourself

>>97610252
>he's now reduced to whining that /osrg/ regulars know the rules and are able to discuss them
kek, really showing your nogames bonafides there

>>97610273
>he's been using the same images repeatedly like >>97610233 & >>97610177
Kek, we're all doing that to provoke you and we've even told you so straight to your face before.

>>97610283
>the thread everyone is in
LOL, there's nobody here but you, and us making fun of you, that's the point.

>>97610250
If you want a serious answer to this question, you should post it in the real general: >>97600170

As you can see, this is a pretty catastrophically shitposted thread posted by a troll trying to desperately hijack the general for his own incomprehensible autismal reasons. You won't get any serious answers here.

>>97610286
>and yet you can't stop yourself from replying and contributing to the flooding,
Because all your efforts don't actually mean anything?

Archive still retains all the posts, so everyone can see you embarass yourself, permanently.
And, someone will make a new thread, making the hours you wasted completely pointless and even detrimental to your overall plan of gaslighting /tg/.
Eventually, either you will finally tire or the mods will finally do something about your trolling/flooding, and peace will prevail.

>>97610250
Sure.
That's the expectation in settings like Faerun, where the gnome god Gond's followers have developed the secret of "smokepowder".

>>97610273
>he's been using the same images repeatedly
You finally noticed?
lmao you really are stupid, fishfag

>>97610303
>Archive still retains all the posts
FUCK YEAH, FISHFAG
Nobody would believe us when we say you claimed treasure is a story goal, otherwise.

>>97610283
>why does no one want to talk with me about a game no one plays in my fake general?!
But enough about "AD&D" 2e and yourself, fishfag.

>>97610233
>Kek, it's always particularly funny when you tell yourself these little asshurt fables to console yourself.
Fishfag is like a gang rape victim hallucinating an imaginary friend and telling himself everything is alright.

>>97610393
Yeah and he thinks that'll make the rapists stop and feel ashamed. If anything that makes me enjoy it more.

>>97610287
>we've even told you so straight to your face before.
It's really hard to believe how mentally and socially inept fishfag is sometimes.

>>97602253
All TSR games and Traveller are OSR. It is known and understood outside of the wastes of the K&K forums you washed in from.

>>97610303
>Eventually, either you will finally tire or the mods will finally do something about your trolling/flooding, and peace will prevail.
Lmao no. You will tire/get banned long before the entire population of /osrg/ does.

>>97610430
Wrong

>>97610367
>>97610408
I think he has some sort of stunted notion of evoking sympathy from a nonexistent observer by always looking surprised and freshly outraged, the same way he appaently believes that if he just keeps pretending his hijack threads are the real general which has been usurped, there exists a person somewhere who might buy it eventually. In reality of course everyone who ever witnesses his horseshit knows it for the trolling it is since ages ago, so it's totally pointless.

>>97610430
>traveller
I've seen people say that before, and I think even the designer said as much, but it's such a departure from the initial cliche of what OSR games look like that it's still something that takes a little bit of effort to wrap your head around, like a banana being a berry.

>>97610464
>I think he has some sort of stunted notion
That pretty much summarises fishfag in everything he does.

>>97610467
Also wrong. And samefaggoting.

>>97610303
>Because all your efforts don't actually mean anything?
>efforts
I'm just shitposting at you at a leisurely pace as a relaxing amusement between doing productive things. There's no real effort involved, unlike your seething. The fact that you're getting drowned in posts mocking you is entirely due to you being one lone guy trying to fight an entire general. It's pretty obvious the others aren't trying very hard either.

>>97610467
>I think even the designer said as much
You think the guy who wrote Traveller declared that it was OSR in 1977? Lmao

Or do you mean that you think the guy who wrote Traveller has some sort of authority to unilaterally declare it OSR in like 2014 and that would somehow make it an incontrovertible fact? Even though it bears no relation to the old-school D&D revival movement? Lmao even harder

>>97610489
Fishfag's stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

>>97610303
>Eventually, either you will finally tire or the mods will finally do something about your trolling/flooding
>a years long dedicated troll will just give up
>the mods will do anything
These delusions are not healthy anon.

>>97610303
>Because all your efforts don't actually mean anything?
Incorrect

>>97610489
I'm just repeating what I heard. I honestly don't know too much about the game (sci-fi ain't my bag), but as far as people calling it OSR, ten minutes of research has lead me to believe it's often included in the OSR because it's pretty hard to discuss any RPG in a vacuum, and Traveller was an important contemporary of OD&D while sharing a lot of traits that people often associate with old school gaming (such as high lethality and a 'let the dice fall where they may' attitude).

If you really want to understand old school gaming, you can't put your head in the sand and pretend it's all about playing in a single imagined style. By looking at the similarities between D&D and Traveller and the differences between them and more modern games, we can get a broader sense of aspects of games that may have become less prominent but are still worth preserving.

>>97610524
Very wrong.

>>97610542
>Someone on plebbit said it's OSR so it's OSR.
Ah, well, that changes everything then!

>>97610542
Completely wrong.

>>97610547
nou

>>97610542
>I'm just repeating what I heard. I honestly don't know too much about the game
>ten minutes of research has led me to believe a whole bunch of dumb shit I'll stick to for the rest of my life
/tg/ in a nutsack

>>97610542
>If you really want to understand old school gaming, you can't put your head in the sand and pretend it's all about playing in a single imagined style
sad bait

>>97610542
>I'm just repeating what I heard. I honestly don't know too much about the game
So you don't know what you're talking about, and yet:

>If you really want to understand old school gaming, you can't put your head in the sand and pretend it's all about playing in a single imagined style.
You think you can tell Anons who do know about it what they should or shouldn't do.

It's crowning! Just one more push!

>>97610659
Indeed

>>97610600
Don't know much about traveler, but do know quite a loot about OSR.

*KERPLUNK!*

Thanks for a great thread, Anons