elcome to Open OSR. This is a seperate thread is for open discussions of OSR, OSR-adjacent and retro games. You can talk about all OSR (Pre Wotc D&D, & retroclones) & OSR-adjacent (Mork Borg, Shadowcity etc) games without distinction here.There is a general for those who only want to talk about "first decade" D&D. If that is your preference, you can find that here >>98735990As always, report and ignore any trollingPrevious thread: >>98741916Thread Question:What's your fav Campaign setting? (Blackmoor, Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance Planescape Dark Sun etc?)
Forgotten Realms. Once upon a time it was cool and Drizzt wore a skullcap.
>>98747984If I had to pick one, I guess it would be Greyhawk, though "super generic D&D land" is probably more of the truth because I've never been into "settings". I'd just grab whatever and put it in.I remember hearing that Ravenloft was on its own plane and thinking that was dumb.
>Dragonlance Planescape Dark Sun>Forgotten RealmsWhat are you talking about? None of these are OSR campaign settings.
>>98748045>I remember hearing that Ravenloft was on its own plane and thinking that was dumb.It is it's own pocket dimension of mini almost prison horror realms made for various extra evil people across D&D's multiverse, it is dumb. One of the few good things to come out of 4e of all things, was Nentir Vale. It's a very competant sandbox for a campaign. the whole "points of light" premise is very good for OSR play.
>Friend says the games I run are too safe because no one dies in them>He decides he wants to run a game>"I'm not going to pull any punches like in his games, so you all better be prepared for some real old school shit.">flat out just calls me out as a soft DM before the game>we journey into an abandoned mine>goblins, but way too many goblins>everyone is rolling poorly, but somehow the goblins are rolling even worse>all the telltale signs of him fudging behind the DM's screen start appearing>we win without casualties>I can't call him out because the last thing a DM is ever supposed to do is accuse another DM of fudgingAnd I don't fudge. I don't even know if I should still be upset with him for calling me a soft DM until we play again.
>>98748124>I can't call him out because the last thing a DM is ever supposed to do is accuse another DM of fudging>call out culture at all being a thing you're part of >your 'friend' was being a shit to you anyway Reap what you sow with your gay retardation. Stay tuned for your critical role cameo and funny voices in a few weeks before you all abandon the game to talk about the idea of games on your discord.
>>98748119>Nentir ValeIt looks kinda small.
>>98748143I mean it kinda is, but i'm saying mainly for a smaller, short form campaign, it seems great. Something that doesn't get to 9th level play and above with domains and whatnot.
>>98748124>I can't call him out because the last thing a DM is ever supposed to do is accuse another DM of fudgingI don't know about manners or whatever but you could have at least hit him with one of these.
>>98748143Weird. I always though that "points of light" meant continent-sized forests and only one village every hundred miles.Actually, now that I look at the scale, that's winterbole forest is bigger than Ireland.
>>98748025Why does Drizzt look like he's 80.Is this what people thought cool people looked like back then?
Continuing from last thread>>98747486>how does this thread affect the /osrg/?The issue is that this thread literally only exists to troll /osrg/ and try and raise a sperg army against it to take it over, by lying about 2e being OSR, as the current OP is doing again.It acts as a containment for the incessant tantrums that have been occurring for years over 2nd edition being off topic for osrg.You are actively making the whole board worse by pretending like you actually care about playing or discussing games here. You are exclusively doing this to flamebait.
>>98746890>Under your worldview, what do you think would happen if you stopped trolling?Calling out your lies about /osrg/ is not trolling. Your lies about /osrg/ are the trolling. What do you think would happen if YOU stopped trolling?
>>98747984>What's your fav Campaign setting? (Blackmoor, Mystara, Greyhawk, Dragonlance Planescape Dark Sun etc?)The Auran Empire (the ACKS one) is the best designed setting ever.Blackmoor, Greyhawk, and the Known World are fine.Dragonlance, Planescape, Mystara, and Dark Sun are dogshit for nogames who like to read setting books instead of playing.
>>98748079Mystara isn't either, for that matter.
>>98748124>the last thing a DM is ever supposed to do is accuse another DM of fudginglolwutAre you retarded or what?
>>98748203Thank you for a very organic OSR discussion. This will make me a better DM.
>>98748025[Setting] is good. Do you like [other setting]?Wow. Great in-depth discussion. Love this thread.
>>98747984>As always, report and ignore any trollingGood thinking, good policy. Just let them tire themselves out.
>>98748367>The issue is that this thread literally only exists to troll /osrg/ and try and raise a sperg army against it to take it over, by lying about 2e being OSR, as the current OP is doing again.that is a matter of opinion that this thread has. The OSR at best is a loose set of ideas that focus on old school style play. I know you probably wouldn't like using skyrim as an example of old school style play, but it makes sense as one for me because its a very open sandbox for you to do whatever you want in. I usually just loot dungeons and look for the strongest monster to fight.>You are actively making the whole board worse by pretending like you actually care about playing or discussing games here. You are exclusively doing this to flamebait.I don't think the rest of the board cares unless all the other generals are also controlled by your group.
>>98748440Please, just ignore him. The OP already explains what this thread is about. I think most people can figure out which posts are from the troll by now on account of him refusing to respect the OP text and just sort of inventing his own ideas.
>>98748440>The OSR at best is a loose set of ideas Wrong>I know you probably wouldn't like using skyrim as an example of old school style playIt's not that I don't LIKE it, it's that it's wrong.
>>98748203Drizzt on the 80's and 90's covers was a weird looking dude. He had a much more Arabian look and I think it really suited the drow in general. But, in the books stuff like his scimitars was considered rare and exotic among the drow (who just used regular long swords), so I don't think the Arabian styling was anything more than an artist taking some licenses. Most early D&D drow though were just pretty generic fantasy baddies though in their art.
>>98748483Sexy baddies.I'm 40% certain this picture was brought up as an example of how D&D was encouraging Satanism and y'know what I can't really blame those moms.
I'm trying to figure the name of an old D&D equipment book that listed a bunch of magical items or perhaps nonmagical (yet fantastic) adventuring equipment.The one in question I am trying to find was something like fire that gave off heat but not light, and fire that didn't give off heat but still gave of light.One was dark fire and the other was cold fire. Or some kinda names like those.
>>98748079Only settings made in the 70s are OSR.
>>98748564>fire that didn't give off heat but still gave of light.I thought that might be an Everburning Torch (a torch with Continual Flame cast on it), but that was 3e.Then I thought it might be Gruumsh's Everburning Torch, but that still produced heat.Then I thought I remembered something like that in the Village of Hommlet adventure, but that turned out to be a wand with Continual Light cast on it. So I just gave up and dove into the Magica Encyclopedia, but the best I found was the Blackflame sword.https://adnd2e.fandom.com/wiki/Blackflame_(Magic_Sword)Good luck though.
>>98748025Faerun might be the second most studied fantasy map, after Middle Earth. Every inch of it is covered in lore, and I'm betting there's no single person who even remembers 1% of its totality.
>>98748440>skyrim as an example of old school style playAh yes, classic old school game, Skyrim, with its central driving plotline of you being the cock fondling chosen one who is there to save the entire setting as per 10,000 year old prophecy.Much old school, very classic style.If you aren't trolling then could you at least try and understand the other perspective on this discussion and consider why other people involved in it wish to see you hanging from a tree?
>>98749055>skyrim>plotline
Any thoughts on Ashes Without Number?
>>98749060Yeah, what of it nerd?There's a central plot where you're the big dicked chosen one destined to save the entire world, which reorientates the entire local geopolitical climate around your existence.And this happens in the first 5 minutes of the game. It's effectively the concept pitch for the entire campaign.Cope about it if you like, but don't pretend you're quite so stupid that you don't get what I'm saying.
>>98748564ACKS has that. The non-magical equipment lists are in the Revised Rulebook and the magical items are in the Treasure Tome.
>>98748577the ACKS Auran Empire is also OSR
>>98748698That's not a good thing. It means that it was written for people to read rather than play in. Not that you'd know the difference.
>>98747984Beautiful Mystara. My home. Oh, to sail the mighty Volaga river again...
>>98749094I like Without Number games because they can be a crunchy without getting crunchy in a way only a retarded robot could enjoy.
>>98749094>>98749267>>98749417>one-liners utterly devoid of content to simulate discussion, as per usual
>>98748483Drizzt and his consequences have been a disaster for the drow race.>>98749094Never played it, could be fun.>>98749267Mystara is based. B1, B2, B4 and X1 are all set in it, heck of a pedigree.
>>98749417WWN was too much crunch for me. All these new wannabe simulation games don't seem to have learned the lesson that the back end of BECMI releases taught, which is that there is such a thing as too many rules.>>98749094I haven't tried AWN and I probably won't because post-Apoc is a trash genre, but it looks okay. A lot of emphasis on gear, and it definitely looks like re-skinned D&D instead of a proper purpose-made system.
>>98748427This works much better than I expected it to.
>>98748483That's so much better than modern drizz.
>>98749615>>98749644>>98749831>>98749877Wow, very in-depth and insightful discussions.
lmao, the bumpfagging in here is absolutely pathetic
>>98749938After all these years fishfag still hasn't learnt what a real discussion looks like. More than pathetic it's hilarious.
>>98749644>post-Apoc is a trash genre,What's wrong with it as a genre? I think it could be fun for OSR stuff, i mean dungeon crawling is literally just delving into ruins. why can't a nuclear bunker/fallout vault be a fun dungeon crawl?
>>98749267Mystara is the best setting, precisely because the fans kept it going and WOTC never gave a shit. I fear the day they remember they own it and come in with a broad brush. Also, no, it isn't just the Known World, before someone comes pretending they give a shit based on X1. 1000AC for life.
>>98749979It is, quite literally, a trash genre.Infinite possibilities in front of you, countless worlds and times, and the one you want to visit is a garbage dump where you root around in the refuse of some overbearing warning about making a bomb too big or not flossing enough.I guess it could be fun, but compared to just a straightforward fantasy adventure, where the trash is rarely mentioned and the rewards are piles of gold instead of cans of dog food, it's hard to make a strong case for playing in a PA setting.
>>98749995Didn't at least half of the modern MM originate from Mystara? Or whatever the book for PC races is called. Mystara lives through those meme races such as Tortles.
>>98750206>Mystara lives through those meme races such as TortlesNot the greatest legacy, but a legacy.Coincidentally this is also the name of my upcoming porn comic.
>>98750117That's a trash take.
>>98749055>Ah yes, classic old school game, Skyrim, with its central driving plotline of you being the cock fondling chosen one who is there to save the entire setting as per 10,000 year old prophecy.the plotline you can completely ignore?>If you aren't trolling then could you at least try and understand the other perspective on this discussion and consider why other people involved in it wish to see you hanging from a tree?my understanding is that you're a lunatic who wants me to hang from a tree. why do i have to respect that?
>>98749126>ACKS has that. The non-magical equipment lists are in the Revised Rulebook and the magical items are in the Treasure Tome.It's possible they have a similar tools/items, but I saw this item before that game came out. It was definitely in some pre-3e edition of D&D.
>>98750763That guy's just a weird troll that's safe to ignore and it's actually better if you do.
>>98750781Nah, ACKS is a solid game, pull the stick out of your ass and get over yourself
>>98750796No, it's a bad system that makes games worse. Even if you do your best to make it work by trimming it down, it's still just incredibly mediocre through and through and not worth the time (which you'll waste a lot of) or the effort.
>>98750837Sounds like a personal skill issue. My group has been playing it for years and we have a good time.
>>98750796It's not very good, even if you ignore the AI art or the pretty flavorless and fairly tiresome writing/setting/etc.The mechanics are universally the slowest way to do anything in any game. No matter what you want to do, the procedures it provides will require five more rolls than you really need and two charts in different sections of the book and you need to fill out a spreadsheet which you then have to cross-reference with another spreadsheet that took twenty minutes to fill out.I have a hard time believing the game was actually playtested, and all the rules are the exact opposite type that GMs should be learning how to use. If you find yourself building rules like those, you probably need to take a break from making rules and spend some time actually running games.
>>98750978Again, this must be some kind of personal skill issue, or maybe you just don't have enough experience playing games? The mechanics are basically the same as BX for most things. If you are talking about procedural rolls, that is for the DM to do outside of the game sessions themselves, you do realize this? Regardless, it's bizarre to see somebody have such a consistently strong visceral reaction to people even mentioning A game's name. Seems more like you have a vendetta against the game then you do negative experience with playing it. This is assuming that you've actually played the game at all, and aren't just complaining about a PDF you read.
>>98750978It reminds me of [every shitty heartbreaker over 400 pages you can find]. The kind where they try to use the page count as a selling point instead of a red flag.
>>98750990You can safely ignore the anti-acks samefag troll. He's part of a discord full of trannies that is trying to take down any vestiges of "chuddery" in the online osr space, so his vapid arguments are just a smoke screen for when he actually drops the veil and start screeching about the game creator being a Naz o algo
>>98751001Can you name a couple of those?
>>98750990>The mechanics are basically the same as BX for most things. But just about always worse. It's better to just play B/X for the most part. It's better to just play BECMI. You can also stop it with the "skill issue" bit. If you're having trouble understanding something like the difference between an efficient game and one that just likes to waste time because it doesn't understand how to consolidate rolls or make useful abstractions, then that's on you.Being able to play bad games doesn't make you a better GM, it means you probably a very bad one.
>>98751010It's absurd to think anyone who dislikes ACKS is part of some secret discord group.
>>98751001I remember stumbling upon a thousand page Word doc for some d20 anime game (I think someone posted it on /tg/ more than a decade ago), and I wish I could still find it because it had that very special kind of autism that makes someone keep writing rules but never stopping to really consider them. Still, that game had some genuine... heart, I guess I'd call it, even if it was an unplayable heap of navel-gazing game design.
>>98751082Considering the game has probably less than a thousand players left (based on how bad its backers numbers have been), it's much easier to claim the inverse. Every time anyone even mentions the game it's incredibly suspicious, even without accounting for the trolling/shilling that's attached to it.
>>98751115You just described 95% of the games posted on the internet in 2005.
>>98751058>But just about always worseI'd love to see some examples of mechanics that are in BX that you consider worse, as they are implemented in ACKS?>>98751082Not really that absurd at all, considering how common discord raids happen on this website. Before the record, it's because almost anytime anyone mentions the game in a positive light, they are immediately accused of being from a discord raid. You see the absurdity then, right?>>98751145>Appeal to popularityBut how many people do you think it takes to be on discord and perform a raid? Really just two, no?
Just realized it's just that shill troll.
>>98751219That should be fucking automatic at this point. Put your filters on and don't act like he hasn't been trying to troll this thread ever since he realized people stopped going to his.
>>987511583rd edition really was the wild West when it came to official and unofficial third party games. So many bizarre IPs tied in
>>98751219>>98751231So because I asked for direct examples of your complaint, that makes me a shill? I've never spent a dime on the game, and I play with pirated copies that my friends gave me, since that's the game they play. If you have any actual material of discussion I would be interested, but it seems as though you are shutting down.
>>98751238It was a beautiful, stupid time.I kinda miss it. Not the games, because they were probably all terrible, but just everyone realizing "Hey, I can make my own game!" and rushing on the internet to show everyone, even if it just meant taking the d20 system and somehow making it even more broken.The big explosion of OSR games also felt like that, a little. Even back in 2016 there was more than 200.https://ynasmidgard.blogspot.com/2016/08/comprehensive-list-of-osr-games.html
>98751243Final courtesy post, no (you) for you though. Take it to the containment thread. Too much falseflagging and trolling from the shills already to ever extend the benefit of the doubt to that game.We already saw the troll try to flood the thread earlier, no point in continuing.
>>98751243You have to understand, our village idiot has a very special definition of shill.>Shill (noun): Person that likes games I do not like or am determined to ruin the reputation of. See also: BroSR, Trollcow, ACKStec, The Great Satan, Literally Hitler, Poo-poo-pee-pee man, Stinky Pete
>>98751355Seething and shutting down the entire conversation when somebody asks you for a single example of your argument, is exactly why this thread, the actual containment thread exists. The mods literally told you to fuck off from messing with osrg and you declared this as a victory. >>98751316Nowadays all projects have to be monetized or else people don't want to make them. Which is understandable, but lamentable for the community.
>>98751316Is there a more recent list?
>>98751355Wow, that was an easy way to get him to mask off.Filters though. Use them.
>>98751372>>Shill (noun): Person that likes games I do not like or am determined to ruin the reputation of. See also: BroSR, Trollcow, ACKStec, The Great Satan, Literally Hitler, Poo-poo-pee-pee man, Stinky PeteYou forgot one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwoc7HgN6YE
>>98751386I think one of the best things about adventurer conqueror king by Alexander macris, is fighter types getting a level based bonus to damage. It doesn't exactly fix the disparity between martials and casters, but that combined with other aspects of the game do make it a bit smaller than it is in raw BX
>>98751378I just checked, and it's not actually just to 2016 but to present day.And there's 807 OSR games on that list now. Meaning in the last decade the number quadrupled.
Would really love to see one of these examples of BX mechanics that is in ACKS, but made worse?
>>98751420You have to understand, Fishfag is one of those people who thinks anyone asking for evidence to back up his absurd claims is trying to be devious and undermine him.Rather than, you know, just wanting proof of what he says.He's very much a 'with me or against me' kind of subhuman.
>>98750781What's trolling about recommending an in-topic game to another Anon, exactly?
>>98750837You just have a hard-on against it for political reasons. You've even admitted as much on multiple occasions.
>>98750837>incredibly mediocre through and through and not worth the time (which you'll waste a lot of) or the effort.But enough about yourself, tell us about ACKS.
>>98751082NTAYRTIt's either that or you have a clinical autistic fixation on that game. You are literally unable to keep yourself from screeching every time it's mentioned.
>>98751231>Put your filters onHe'll never do that, it would mean allowing people to discuss ACKS without him screeching at them and calling them "shills", which is 50% of the reason he's on 4chan the other 50% being trying to raise a sperg army against /osrg/.
>>98751355>Take it to the containment thread.We're already in the containment thread, fishfag.
>>98751316People selling games that are clones of other games always feels weird.Free is one thing. Selling them reminds me those ripoff movies people make.
>>98751386No fucking kidding. I was only like 80% sure and now I feel dumb that I wasn't 100% sure from the start.
>>98751408Damage bonus and cleaves, you mean. It's very synergistic. I have a love-hate toward that.Love: It's fun to mow down a bunch of monsters in a round, creates a clear niche for the thief, it makes assassins super fun, it allows for great party strategy.Hate: I really, really detest individual initiative, and ACKS doesn't work very well without it. Also it doesn't make any sense with mass combat, unlike traditional attack per round à la AD&DThe pros still outweigh the cons, though.
>>98751513NTAYRTlmao how were you NOT sure about it
>>98751450Back in the day artists would just pick the entire thing apart Page by Page and list out every single grievance. I doubt he has even read bx all the way through
>>98751540>I doubt he has even read bx all the way throughWe already know he hasn't
>>98751526Y'know how your mother would always tell you to believe that everyone has some good in them, don't judge a book by its cover, extend the benefit of the doubt to strangers and so on?Sometimes, it makes you really dumb.
>>98748451You have factually false opinions.
>>98751568He does, and he already knows, and we already know. If someone tries to contradict what's in the OP, there's no need to reply, and letting him soil himself in the corner is much better than dragging his shit to the center of the room.
>>98751568>OSR is just a feeling>OSR is a game that identifies as OSRlmao go back to plebbit
>>98751578Telling yourself not to reply because you have no arguments is genuinely retarded even by your standards, fishfag.
>>98751583Feel free to use the attached to heckle him going forward.
>>98751316>https://ynasmidgard.blogspot.com/2016/08/comprehensive-list-of-osr-games.htmlI haven't even heard of 90% of those games.Also why is everyone making Black Hack hacks.Is it so they can say they're hacking Black Hack.
>>98751612>Fishfag admits it's all vibes.pngAdded it to the collection.Last thread someone shared a comment from I believe 2022 that REALLY sounded like fishfag. I wanted to add it to the collection as well but forgot to. Was that you?
>>98751615The Black Hack is really rules lite. You could probably make a version of Black Hack in an afternoon.
>>98751651Nyet, no idea what you're referring to, let me know if you find it.
>>98751681See >>83894877You'll need to read up and down for the full context, though.
>>98751615>71 The Black Hack clonesThat means nearly 1/11 OSR games is a Black Hack clone.
>>98751659Don't tempt me.
>>98751800I fucking dare you.
>>98751238My favorites were the RPG publishers with their own games who made d20 versions just to jump in on the bandwagon.Now we see them do the same with 5e.
>>98751770If nothing else, I found something to post any time he tries to claim someone is malding.
>>98751001Oh yeah.I get that.
>>98751615The Black Hack works.It's so easy. I've used it as a gateway game for new players ten times.Every time it's like is this all we need to know and yeah its all you need to know now get in the dungeon.
>>98751474I didn't make the post you are thinking about. People probably complain about ACKS because of the openly politicized nature of the creator.
>>98752269Okay? Only terminally ill retards who are obsessed with culture War politics care about that shit. I judge my opinion of a game based on whether or not I like playing it, not on the politics of the retards screeching about it pro or negative.I'm still very much interested in hearing these examples of mechanics that are in bx, that are used by ACKS, are somehow worse?
>>98752298I don't think you're telling the truth. You'd be asking in the /osrg/.
>>98752349Bozo, it doesn't matter what you think, that doesn't alter reality.ACKS is an osr game so it's on topic here. Can somebody in this thread made the exact claim that I am referencing, and has refused to give evidence for it, so I'm still waiting.
>>98752386And somebody*
>>98752349Fucking duuuuuuuuh.Retard's been having a meltdown because he's been being ignored. Leave him to it.
>>98752269>People
>>98752386You'll never get a reply, so let's go back to discussing ACKS. What's your favourite monster? I love Thrassians. You're fighting Lizard Men, and suddenly some winged swoop down on the party. Fuckin' kewl
>>98752399
>>98752399I think that's an easy hard and fast rule.In the small chance there was someone that wants to earnestly discuss that game, they could always go to the /osrg/ and avoid any conflict. The only reason to bring it up in this thread like the troll guy has obviously been doing is to try and fight about it while spamming up the thread.
>>98752501Is an osr game so it's on topic for this osr thread. And I wasn't the one who made this claim, you did. So please provide any example at all?
>>98752501Great, but put your filters on.>>98748427
>>98752531
I ran a short-lived xianxia game in WWN. I suppose there's not many OSR games where it feels xianxia adjacent enough to even think of such a thing?
>>98752617My immediate first thought was Yoon-suin.It's rather mid, but it's probably worth looking into if you do that for free.
>>98752617YOU WANT PLAY CHINA MAN?YOU WANT KNOW KUNG FU?WHY YOU NO PLAY?!?
>>98752617You can very easily use the ACKS custom class rules to make your own Xianxia game and setting.
>>98752441Thrassians are cool, but Tokay Gulls cute and adorable!
>>98752501Talking about an on-topic game is not trolling. Just because you have an autistic fixation against it doesn't mean the rest of us in this thread need to self-censor, fishfag.
>>98752666Ah yes, lengendary expert on Asian cultures, Gari Gaigaksu.
>>98752717I have a rare photo of young Gygax.
>>98752717Had Gygax ever been to Asia?I kinda doubt he'd even been to a sushi restaurant.
>>98750837>>98750978>>98751001Imagine seething this hard over a game being good, kek
>>98752909Don't feed the troll, post your favourite bits from ACKS instead.The Nightblade is basically ACKS's Elf Magic-User/Thief, with some quirks: For example, it gets Acrobatics from level one.
>>98752646This game hurts my eyes.
>>98752235It's too light. >>98752954Better than AI slop.
>>98752967Nah. Good AI or AI-assisted art is much better than crappy artpunk.
>>98753022Only for porn. For a game book I'd take stick figures over soulless AI slop.
>>98753044That's great, but there's a big difference between having a preference for something, and being a screeching artist anytime it's brought up
>>98753022>goodTall order, especially because the sort of people who use AI art are almost always non-artists who don't know how to do anything good with it.They might try to use it to trick half-blingld boomers and idiots, but it should trigger a sense of "this ain't right" in everyone else.
>>98753044Slop apologists are mostly scammers of some kind.
>>98753110I'm fine with AI hobbyists. It's cool technology. If you're doing it for fun it doesn't really hurt anyone.Anyone who puts AI on a product they plan to sell should be dragged out into the street and shot.
>>98753085If you didn't spend money on the game, then who cares?
>>98752967>Better than AI slop.There's nothing in the tabletop industry worse than artpunk and the faggotry that comes with it.
>>98753147you're not wrong though
>>98753147>Anyone who puts AI on a product they plan to sell should be dragged out into the street and shot.AI is gods punishment for artists acting like retards on Blue Sky.Why do you want to pay shitters who hate you as well as the people you actually want to buy the product of?
>>98753110It's a shame. AI isn't inherently good or bad, but it's too easy for bad people to use in bad ways.>>98753147Money being involved does change things and make it significantly worse, but even amateur stuff has its problems. I don't want to start a lecture on the impact of AI and AI misuse, but it's not surprising that the reaction towards AI is continuing to become even more negative as people realize the broader and long term effects of it. In RPG space, the hate it gets is very justified.
>>98748143As much of a fan of the OSR that I am, 4e is still my jam mostly due to the Nentir Vale
>>98753316It's funny to think that people might try to escape the flood of AI slop by thinking old games would be safe only to see the OSR is also having to deal with its own flood of slop.
>>98753448Thank fuck the OSR has had like 20ish years of being around, there is so much goddamn content out there already for it before AI slop began flooding in.
>>98753458I'm just glad that no matter what new stuff comes out, the original D&D editions will remain as they were forever, so even if things take a nasty turn they can always return back to the originals as a fresh starting point.
>>98752666Is that book actually any good, satan?
>>98747984>GreyhawkReminder that Greyhawk is officially dead because Gygax destroyed it in his Gord novels specifically just as a "fuck you" to TSR for kicking him out while they retained all the rights to every part of Greyhawk except for the Gord novels.
>>98753644It's got a lot of interesting content but mostly from a historical point of view as the introduction of a lot of material that would be seen more often in later editions, but mechanically it's not considered to be that well designed and most of Gygax's understanding of the material was just from Kungfu movies and library books. He does a surprisingly good job with it, but it's still a very dated book.It's not "oh my god is that yellow face we need to cancel gary gygax lets start a riot" dated, but it's much easier to find information about other cultures in the era of the internet and its probably better to use other resources.
>>98748143>smallYou mean cute and comfy.
>>98751231>people stopped going to hislmaooooooo
>>98751520>I really, really detest individual initiative, and ACKS doesn't work very well without itCan you expand on this? Why doesn't it work well without individual initiative? B/X works fine with group initiative, so...
>>98754087That's the most Gygax thing ever.
>>98752501>discussing an OSR game in the open OSR thread is trollinglmao what
>>98754379The most Gygax thing ever would be to die from a cocaine overdose while balls deep in a hooker dressed like an orc while a minstrel plucked a variety of Black Sabbath melodies in the background, and it's sad that he passed away in a different fashion.
>>98753147>If you're doing it for fun it doesn't really hurt anyone.Arguable.
>>98751316>Anime + OSRI don't know how to feel about this.
>>98754790
>>98748025>Greenwood agreed to work on the project, and began to prepare his Forgotten Realms material for official publication. He sent TSR a few dozen cardboard boxes stuffed with pencil notes and maps, and sold all his rights to the Realms to TSR for a token fee—just $5,000 and a promise to publish Greenwood's novels. The following year, Greenwood and coauthor Jeff Grubb wrote and published the Forgotten Realms Campaign Set (1987).>The campaign setting was a major success, and Greenwood continued to be involved with the evolution of the Forgotten Realms over the next decades. He went on to write numerous Forgotten Realms novels. Many of these center around the wizard Elminster, whom Greenwood has frequently portrayed at conventions and gaming events.>When TSR was in dire financial difficulties in 1996–1997, Greenwood offered to write some material for them for free to help get them back on their feet. Nothing came of the offer, but after Wizards of the Coast purchased TSR in 1997 and stabilized its finances, CEO Peter Adkison personally called Greenwood at the library he was working at to encourage him to continue writing Realms material. Greenwood responded he was happy to continue writing for the Realms for as long as he could.What a wholesome man. He was always genuinely doing it just for the love of the game.
>>98754790sword world
>>98754211It's the other way around, ACKS requires individual initiative because cleaves make winning initiative crucial, and all monsters get cleaves exactly like PCs do. So the side with initiative gets to alpha strike the other.Additionally, synergy between different class powers, such as a Magic-User prepping fighter cleaves with AoE spells, means that if you know or can control the order in which your side acts, see above. Individual initiative randomises the order in which each individual goes, and fixes both of those issues.
>>98754400That sad troll is completely mind broken. Safe to ignore. Discuss ACKS instead.
>>98755008>What a wholesome man. He was always genuinely doing it just for the love of the game.He's very wholesome, but Alexander Macris is even better.
>>98755772>sells a bloated b/x clone with undisclosed AI art; it's incredibly unpopular and none of its kickstarters ever saw more than 2k backers>spends all his time on twitter making political tweets and either complaining about 5e being woke or how he's been functionally blacklisted for being political>directly got himself and his game banned from RPG.net for threatening the mods>treats RPGs not as a passion or even as a business but as a scam to extract money from idiots>is completely talentless as a writer and on the level of a sixteen year-old making his first heartbreaker as a designerHe's pretty awful.
>>98749134I mean it's the vehicle for Ed Greenwood's magical realm and his books.
>>98755008>When TSR was in dire financial difficulties in 1996–1997, Greenwood offered to write some material for them for free to help get them back on their feet. Nothing came of the offer,Why would TSR reject that offer. Beggers can't be choosers and they could have saved the company and kept it independant.Very different timeline if Greenwood's offer and plan went throguh.
>>98754790>Anime + OSR>I don't know how to feel about this.There is a precedent for it, a very very good one.
>>98752617In my opinion xianxia (and wuxia) work better in a classless system where players can pick up and learn a variety of skills from different sources - I think it fits the tropes of the genre better.>>98752678The setting for my current ACKS game is !notQinChina (it's actually the three kingdoms period but Han didn't exist because Fusu wasn't retarded also dragons and elves and dwarves and shit). I actually make a xia class but ended up getting rid of it because I decided to veer away from a martial arts setting into a more 'realistic' version of the three kingdoms (with dragons and elves and shit) because it fitted the story I want to explore, and I can't be assed to say laoye and zhaoshi every five seconds.
>>98756172That's not even the worst stuff.
>>98756194So you have no setting-specific ACKS classes?
>>98752717It was ghost written by Zeb Cook. This is common knowledge.
>>98756184The last thing TSR needed then was more material to print.The whole reason that TSR went under was because they fucked up their finances and had not paid their printers. They had no cash on hand because they were certain they'd be able to sell the books, so they kept yanking their printers around by making them work on credit well past what the printers were comfortable doing. So, after TSR accumulated significant debt with them, the printers demanded to be paid, TSR had no money, and so the printers stopped printing and then TSR had no books to sell to try and cover that debt.TSR had tons of material ready to be printed, they just had no way to turn that material into money.Greenwood offering them more writing for free is like seeing a drowning man and offering him a glass of water.
>>98748427This is the single best improvement to these threads.It's nice that you can see that they're still malding but you don't actually have to see their posts.
>>98756242Protip: add "macris".
>>98756226As I mentioned in another fishy thread somewhere, I use the ACKSII core classes, assassin, bladedancer (I use Jiutian Xuannü (chinese goddess of war and sex and longlife) instead of Ianna), and priestess.My players are pretty new to non-nuDnD style games so I didn't want to burden them too much with my shitty homebrew. It also helped that when I tested the xia class myself it was a shittier bladedancer/fighter/mage combo.
>>98756252>I use the ACKSII core classes, assassin, bladedancer (I use Jiutian Xuannü (chinese goddess of war and sex and longlife) instead of Ianna), and priestess.Ah, you didn't say this was a China-inspired setting, though, did you?>My players are pretty new to non-nuDnD style games so I didn't want to burden them too much with my shitty homebrew.Ah, makes sense>It also helped that when I tested the xia class myself it was a shittier bladedancer/fighter/mage combo.I would offer to help but I don't know enough about the source material to provide feedback that isn't purely "technical".
>>98756172He genuinely sounds like one of the worst people in existence. Everything that could be wrong about someone making RPGs all in one person.I'm not at all surprised that his fans are also so objectively terrible.Shit attracts flies.
>>98756266>Ah, you didn't say this was a China-inspired setting, though, did you?I said:>>98756194>The setting for my current ACKS game is !notQinChina (it's actually the three kingdoms period but Han didn't exist because Fusu wasn't retarded also dragons and elves and dwarves and shit).Which I admit is a rambling way of saying it's the Three Kingdoms Period but in my fanfic the Qin dynasty didn't fall due to literal retardism.>>98756266>I would offer to help but I don't know enough about the source material to provide feedback that isn't purely "technical".The main problem is that the source material for wuxia/xianxia works better in a classless system - or if you look at the more gamified xianxia settings can work with minor reskins of existing classes, Sword/Blade cultivators are fighters, Alchemists/Immortal Physicians are Clerics/Priestesses but reskinned so instead of divine magic its pills/acupuncture, Talisman Masters and Formation Masters are just specialised reskinned Mages.Main thing reskinning classes can't do is allow the multiple speciality protagonist character type - which is why I'd say classless works better for xianxia.
>>98756250filter it! lol we have so much to talk about otherwise! >>98756172lmao
>>98755008>What a wholesome man.Not an OSR man, however. So off topic here.
>>98756293>The main problem is that the source material for wuxia/xianxia works better in a classless system - or if you look at the more gamified xianxia settings can work with minor reskins of existing classes, Sword/Blade cultivators are fighters, Alchemists/Immortal Physicians are Clerics/Priestesses but reskinned so instead of divine magic its pills/acupuncture, Talisman Masters and Formation Masters are just specialised reskinned Mages.I don't see why that requires a classless system. Can't those combos be handled through ACKS proficiencies?
>>98756271He's pretty basic when it comes to being a shitty person. Just a guy who thinks he's entitled to a lot more than his talent would actually allow, which is probably why he does his best to hide his game's lack of quality by trying to focus on its/his politics in his tweets. He seems to be at least aware enough to avoid posting any of the AI art, because I don't think twitter would enjoy that.Attracting more talentless guys to him is just how these little groups of losers naturally form. I think they all feel entitled to a lot more than they deserve, so they keep generating friction whenever they're faced with reality.He's not the worst person in general or the worst person in RPGs, he's just bad at both and the only reason we're even talking about him is because he managed to attract a few fans who are somehow even worse in both categories.
>>98756323Him being their alpha is pretty fucking funny.
>>98756193They dungeon crawl for maybe fourteen minutes.
>>98752688The Tokay Gull may, in fact, be the cutest and most adorable monster in any first decade / OSR game ever.Báleygr are fantastic monsters, by the way. I'm totally putting one in one of the deeper levels of my dungeon.
>>98756319Yes and no.It's more a case of ease and genre conventions within xianxia (and to a lesser extend wuxia) as a whole.Looking at sword cultivators for example. In xianxia a sword cultivator is (in general) a billy badass with a sword, most of them also use talismans, cast elemental spells, use their swords to fly, and will likely have some sort of qinggong (the floaty wushu stuff from the movies). This can all be simulated in various class based systems, proficiencies, multiclass, etc etc. These wouldn't be as simple or easy as just using a classless system - which is fine, it's not what they were designed for.Also xianxia in general works on the power of author bullshit and mary sueing so how translatable that would be to a groupfun game is debatable.
>>98756323>He's pretty basic when it comes to being a shitty person.That's enough to be a deal breaker. There's plenty of better RPGs made by better people. With less retarded fans.>the only reason we're even talking about him is because of trolls. I don't think they get any real pleasure out of life except when they're trolling.
>>98756323The AI art shit alone makes him worse than your regular shitty person.
>>98756232His heart was in the right place.He probably didn't know about the specifics and just wanted to do what he could to help out. As a writer all he could do was write.
>>98756347ACKS II Demons are excellent in general.Cacodemons have their own random generator for body types and special abilities, which makes every encounter unique. Pretty neat!
>He's seething about supposedly AI art againMeanwhile 5e has the most generic, soulless sloppa art that has ever or shall ever be in a tabletop product.But hey, that's a Diverse product, am I right? No problems there.
>>98756172Next time >>98756250Always ignore the trolls and let them mald.
>>98756407lmao nobody gives a fuck about AI art except for RPGnet troons like yourself, fishfag
>>98756468LMAO the only one having an autistic meltdown here is (You), fishfag.You didn't even resist 24 hours before starting to shriek about how Macris is literally Hitler
>>98756231How often did Gygax have stuff ghost written?
>>98756459Anyway, back on topic. Here are the Cacodemon body types
>>98756173It started as a D&D setting.I don't know how much magical realm stuff is actually in his games when he is running them but I can't imagine it's a lot.
>>98756359Yeah, that doesn't sound overly compatible with D&D as-is. Definitely a bunch of tropes to import though.
>>98756231>>98756484I'm actually pretty curious about this too.I know that Cyborg Commando was mostly Frank Mentzer but credited as Gygax, and when CC bombed Gygax told everyone he only put his name on it to help it sell.
>>98756520If you want to do wuxia/xianxia justice trope wise you need to start reading chinese idoms and the memes related to them, bloody things are full of them."I your grandfather" "You do not recognise mount tai" "Courting Death"If your game doesn't have 90 of these per session (and a helpful NPC to explain the full background of every minor character, and to recognise your super secret move that you found in an ancestors tomb after it had been lost for a thousand years) it's not real xianxia.
>>98756172wow did you set the troll off
>>98756232>The whole reason that TSR went under was because they fucked up their finances and had not paid their printers.They went bankrupt because Lorraine Williams was a cow making really fucking bad calls and funneling money from the company back to her own family by making Buck Rogers books and games because her family owned the rights to that even though no one was buying them or had cared about Buck Rogers in fifty years.
>>98756172Sounds pretty base to me, as long as he makes retards like you absolutely seethe piss and moan
>>98756385So you admit it has nothing to do with the game and you just don't like his politics? That's fine, but quit pretending like this is about RPGs and isn't about your tranny culture War
>we're not shitty trolls malding!>he says, being a shitty troll, maldinglol ACKShills are fucked.
>>98756676>t. Malding
>>98756590>>98756676Knock it off. Be better. Use filters. Discuss old school.
>>98756676Awww does discussing an osr game in an osr thread upset you? Why don't you try discussing some of these supposed mechanics that AC KS implements that are worse than in. bx?
>>98754790What exactly makes a game "anime"?>>98756193 was based on an actual game and was an anime, and it didn't need a special system.
>>98756611I mean Lorraine Williams is the single worst human to ever exist, no one is denying that but Gygax had his own contributions to the financial woes that fucked TSR - him fucking around in Hollywood allowed the Blumes to fuck the finances in the first place.
>>98756676Answer the question, fishfag >>98756661
>>98756683>Discuss old school.Word, don't feed the troll, talk about ACKS.Continuing from >>98756489 here's a partial list of random Cacodemon special abilities. Great table.
>>98756309He made FG for 1e in 1978 and started writing Dragon articles in 79. He is absolutely OSR.
>>98756719>I mean Lorraine Williams is the single worst human to ever existthat makes no sense, she's not even banned on rpgnet and reddit
>>98756748>He is absolutely OSR.Is he banned on rpgnet tho?
>>98756719Gygax going to Hollywood had all sorts of weird effects down the line for D&D.He was still the one at the very top in regards to the creative side of things, and he had reserved a lot of the "big picture" books for himself, notably figuring out the D&D universe's cosmology and how planes/dimensions worked and what they even were.A lot of designers at the time kept asking Gygax to hurry up and finish writing his version of the Manual of the Planes because they wanted to include interplanar stuff in their modules, but Gygax only had a half-finished manuscript that he abandoned for several months and refused to allow anyone else to finish it, reserving it for himself. When Gygax left TSR, the team had a huge bottleneck in the design process removed. Jeff Grubb would make his own Manual of the Planes, and I think he did a pretty decent job with it, with it being likely better than the much looser and chaotic version that Gygax had been working on.
>>98756810How's Grubbs?
>>98756719>I mean Lorraine Williams is the single worst human to ever existFishfag once again trying to pretend he doesn't exist, I see.
>>98756719Gygax was a complex guy. I think he really thought Hollywood could be a step forward for D&D. Gygax already knew the brand was more important than the game, and a movie could really build the brand. It was self-serving, but not 100% self-serving.The weirdest thing to me about Gygax is the guys who do this whole Gygax vs. Hickmans narrative, when Gygax loved Dragonlance and supported it and promoted it wholeheartedly.
>>98756484Everything after 2008 at least.
>>98757231I wish more people took a more holistic approach to public figures. One of my players made a comment that Gygax was a racist in our post game banter a few weeks ago, and I had to stop and go "nah, man, he occasionally said really stupid shit, but I don't think there is any proof he was a racist." People just want this narrative that either he was a perfect, kindly old urgamer preaching trve cvlt gaming, or he was a miserable old racist who was only holding d&d back. In reality, he's a our Stan Lee: he did some good stuff, he did some bad stuff, he was a boomer with an Internet connection so he also said a lot of fucking stupid stuff that sounds really fucking ignorant. It's stupid to try and boil down some guy into "absolute devil" or "perfect angel."
>>98757441Sorry man, looks like you're trying to engage in nuance on a culture war issue. Please select one of the following options and defend it to the death instead:>Inshallah Habibi, we will drive the non-believer dogs from this earth in the name of Gygax PBUH (Play be upon him). Gygax was a golden god who did no wrong, I'm going to name my first born after him.>I can't believe that people still respect Gygax after he drew that swastika made entirely of slurs on the moon using his nazi space laser. Don't people know that thing is powered by the blood of gays, minorities and gay minorities?
>>98757441>One of my players made a comment that Gygax was a racist in our post game banter a few weeks ago,To be fair, and this is largely a technicality, it's pretty much guaranteed he was at least "white guy born in 1938 who spent most of his life in Wisconsin" racist. Even the corn he grew up eating was racist. Whether he was more racist than that is mostly speculation, and not even particularly fun speculation, since D&D doesn't really demonstrate anything you can point to as being anything more than mildly offensive in that regard, even to modern sensibilities. It should be noted some of his favorite authors he used for inspiration for D&D were racists, and not just "grandpa doesn't like rap music" racists but confirmed "certain races are inherently superior to other races, white people are the master race" views they expressed in writing and shaped their stories. D&D does follow a some "biological determinism" ideas that have tones of racism (and sexism), but I don't think they ever went much further than "Seeing things in Tolkien when Tolkien explicitly said they weren't there" as opposed to Burrough's "Yes, let me make sure you understand in no unlcear terms that Tarzan is not just superior because he's white, he's actually SUPER white because he's an English noble, and those are genetically superior even to most other whites. Also Eugenics is awesome don't @ me."D&D being less racist than authors like Howard or Lovecraft at least hints that Gygax was only racist enough to make the guy who called him racist during your banter look like a bit of a prat.
>>98757618>he's actually SUPER white because he's an English noble, and those are genetically superior even to most other whites.Fug, being racist sounds like it was way more fun in the past when it was easy to believe in stuff like that.
>>98757618He was about as racist as anyone born in Middle America at that time, which I think is more ignorant than racist. I know it's a matter of degrees, but intent should mean something. And I think my friend was moreso just repeating a thing he heard uncritically, which, again, is part of the problem.
>>98757673Putting Racial Genetic Determinism aside, I'm really glad the world has largely given up on the idea that nobility had (or has) any sort of superiority.>>98757685>more ignorant than racist.Most racism is ignorance though. The very concept of being racist is built around Race, which is a social construct that's mistaken for a genetic concept with any scientific basis. >I know it's a matter of degrees, but intent should mean something....fair. Particularly when there's a lot of bad actors spreading misinformation, it's easy for people to believe something and it not being 100% their fault. But, while intent does mean something and someone else is partially responsible, ignorance/racism are still ignorance/racism.Guy is technically right that Gygax was racist. Though it doesn't make him fun at parties for saying so.
>>98757817Reddit idpoltard detected.>Race, which is a social construct that's mistaken for a genetic concept with any scientific basis.If race is a social construct, why can you determine a person's race using genetic testing? And why do different races have different predispositions for different genetic diseases?
>>98757817the nobility only lost its status in places where the nobles had to interbreed with the common folk. india still has its caste system for example.and racism is simply a rejection of the truth that some races are simply better then others
>>98757842Oh, that's easy.>According to geneticist David Reich, "while race may be a social construct, differences in genetic ancestry that happen to correlate to many of today's racial constructs are real".[34] In response to Reich, a group of 67 scientists from a broad range of disciplines wrote that his concept of race was "flawed" as "the meaning and significance of the groups is produced through social interventions".[35]>why can you determine a person's race using genetic testing? You can't. You can get a vague picture of your ancestry/genealogy, but no test can accurately determine "race" because there's no set definition of any race and there really couldn't be. >And why do different races have different predispositions for different genetic diseases?That's not quite how that works. You don't define a person as being "Black" because they are more predisposed towards having sickle celled anemia, and the reason"Black" people are more genetically inclined towards it is because they are more likely to have genes that are also common in people from other races that come from hot/humid regions of the world (and are believed to be linked with malaria resistance). There are genetic similarities between people who are more closely related than others. That's pretty obvious. But where you draw the lines that define one race from another is incredibly subjective. All humans are of the same species and even subspecies and interbreed regularly, and any effort to define a race will find countless paradoxes/exceptions/contradictions.
>>98747984
Why does the Half-orc look like Will Ferrell.
>>98756748>I sware on me mum, Runequest came out before 1984 so it's OSR!!!
>>98758434Thank you for your contribution.
>>98757989>You can get a vague picture of your ancestry/genealogy, but no test can accurately determine "race" because there's no set definition of any race and there really couldn't be.lmao that's beyond retarded>You don't define a person as being "Black" because they are more predisposed towards having sickle celled anemiaWhich is the exact reason race exists. If Black were defined as having the sickle cell anemia gene, then it would be a tautology. Instead, when you define "Black" in another manner, you get all sorts of genetic correlations.
>>98757989If we can't determine race by genetics alone, how can I tell you're brown through the internet?
>>98758452>>98758476are you retards for real?
Also, add 'mentioning /pol/shit/race' to the list of fishfaggeries he produces whenever he's losing an argument (aka: every thread going forward)
>>98758452>lmao that's beyond retardedHave fun trying to find genetic definitions of different races.>Instead, when you define "Black" in another manner, you get all sorts of genetic correlations.And if you define it in a different manner, you get all sorts of other genetic correlations.It is a social construct, and the more you understand it, the less it has to do with science and more to do with fairly ignorant assumptions. It's actually quite a lot like dog breeds, which from the outside seems like it might be based on rigorous science, but is a relatively recent and largely artificial distinction, which has different organizations creating registers of breeds according to definitions based on observable physical traits, resulting in weird situations where thanks to recessive genes two black Affenpinschers can produce a gray puppy that qualifies as an Affenpinscher under the American Kennel's club definition, but fails to meet the standards of an Affenpinscher according to the British or French Kennel Clubs (which state all Affenpinschers must be black).And, as time passes, the efforts to maintain the defined breeds (largely through inbreeding) becomes more difficult because the distinctions are not really natural or based on genetics, with the dogs naturally drifting away from the defined and desired appearance of the breed. As time goes on, the oldest defined breeds become the most problematic (thanks to the inbreeding), and the entire effort is displayed as a folly based on an incomplete understanding of how dog genetics worked from over a century ago.Human Race is very much like that. Any attempt to make it scientific involved scientists working with unscientific motivations reaching incomplete conclusions that are considerably outdated.
>>98758476kekrekt
>>98758682>Have fun trying to find genetic definitions of different races.Ever heard of 23 and me?>It is a social constructNo, it isn't. People who claim it is start from the conclusion they want to arrive at, that races don't exist, for reasons that are entirely political. First, they want to virtue signal that they are not racist, and the most egregious way to virtue signal that is by claiming that races don't exist. Secondly, they think that by saying that races don't exist, they can defeat racism.Having taken this stance against all evidence that is obvious to literally everybody who is not retarded and ideologically capture at the same time, they then start to confabulate reasons why the conclusion they have pre-selected must be true.That's one of the most anti-scientific retardery in academia right now, and man there's a bunch.
>>98758507B-but fishfag doesn't exist! Like races!
>>98758717>Ever heard of 23 and me?How well do you understand the results? And why getting results from 23 and me and Ancestry will invariably produce different results (in part because they don't even use all the same categories) despite testing the same DNA? And why people will have results in percentages of geographic regions, rather than a "YOU ARE WHITE" or "YOU ARE BLACK" race result?>No, it isn't.Yes, it is. I understand you, because when I was much, much younger, I also thought race must be based on clearly understood genetics and all that, and it wasn't even until I went to university and began a serious education that I stopped to actually think about it and I had my patient professors explain how I had been making a lot of stupid assumptions in my youth.Race is a social construct, and social constructs do "exist". No one is saying race does not exist. What I'm saying is that there is no genetic definition of race/ethnicity, no objective way to say "I am Asian" or "I am Hispanic" and the latter is particularly an absolute fucking nightmare to even begin to define."White" even had a fun run in America where Italians and Irish and many other Europeans were not considered "White." The definitions of each "race" have shifted and changed, the number of races have expanded and contracted, and at the end of it all is just that there's a single Human species, a single Human subspecies, and a whole lot of fighting over a bad idea that's pretty outdated at this point.Hopefully, in a century or so, people will look back at Race the same way we look back at Humors.
>It's all a spectrum Bro-You're certainly on some kind of spectrum, we've established that long ago.
>>98756709>What exactly makes a game "anime"?The size of the eyes (large), the size of the nose (tiny), the number of natural hair colors (impossible), and the amount of blood from even the smallest cut (gallons).
>Thread is so dead he's engagement farming by bringing up /leftypol/shit in the hopes people will get riled into replyingCan you just admit your thread is dead and accept defeat?
>>98758495I mean, it fits. It's pretty clear who that guy is, and the fact that he's actually completely ignorant about this stuff is pretty unsurprising.
>>98758916>And why people will have results in percentages of geographic regions, rather than a "YOU ARE WHITE" or "YOU ARE BLACK" race result?Right. Because since they don't use the words ''white" and "black", then those don't exist.>I went to university and began a serious educationSociology isn't "serious education", you fucking retard.>Italians and Irish and many other Europeans were not considered "White."LOLLMAO EVENYou are repeating every single lie every single polsci retard repeats, word for word, every single time the subject is brought up. Literally NONE of you has ever considered actually double checking the outright lies that you were told in your "serious education" class.You're the living proof that certain faculties make people more stupid than they already were to begin with.Which is why your "serious education" is everything but.And also goes a LONG WAY towards explaining your "proofs" that 2e is OSR.
>>98759086Anon, he's farming for (you)onium to keep this thread afloat.Don't give it to him.
>>98759095But I want to keep this thread afloat: That's the whole point of a containment thread.
>>98759116If it dies a natural death he might finally leave of his own accord or more likely be permabanned by the Jannies when he inevitably tries something retardedDrawing it out isn't doing anyone any favours
>>98759086>Right. Because since they don't use the words ''white" and "black", then those don't exist.So, you don't actually understand how 23 and me works. That's fine. But, if you're going to bring it up ever again in an argument it'd be good for you to look into it.>Sociology isn't "serious education"Agreed. Never said I specifically studied sociology. >LOL>LMAO EVENIt is actually pretty funny. The kind of papers people were writing in order to try and justify why new waves of immigrants deserved second-class citizenship were genuinely funny by how outlandish and ridiculous they were. Minus the fact that they were used for actual discrimination and harm. Did you know the Irish were actually secretly albino negroes?
>>98758717>>98759086>the ackshill is actually a racist retardI kinda thought you might just be doing it like a joke but you're actually racist and retarded.
On the bright side we now have (further) proof Fishfag is just a leftypol retard who is in it for the culture war shit.I wonder if the Jannies might finally do something about him if someone were to pass this up the line and explain the whole sordid tale?
>>98759178I'm actually kind of surprised he tagged his post that way.That's the kind of mistake you can't really undo.
>>98756359some of those are items not class abilities, plus WWN eventually gives you three classes (in the heroic rules) and light godbound powers (in the legate rules)
>>98759178Anon you quoted. I said nothing racist at all. The fact that you can't even tell the difference between saying the trivially obvious thing that races exist and racism proves how ideologically captured you are.
>>98759140>Never said I specifically studied sociology.You didn't need to say it, it's obvious by the bullshit you say.
>>98759132He'll never leave, he has a literal autistic fixation. Those things last for life. My autistic classmate from 40 years ago had a fixation on trains, and he still does.As for the mods (jannies can't ban), if they wanted to permaban him they'd already have done it years ago. Not sure what their reasons are, and I'm not complaining: I love these containment threads.
>He's squirming.Oh yeah he knows he fucked up.
>>98759303
>>98759178Learn to read, ya fuckin sped
>>98759303>I am bleeding, making me the victor!
>>98758476brutal own lmao
>>98759132>>98759295The solution is to post but sage.
>>98756172ACKS is a shit game, that's shilled, i've not heard people outside of /tg/ and one other place mention it.>>98754790Ever seen wizardry?
>>98760340Wizardry had a completely out of place ninja and that's pretty fucking awesome.
>>98760340>give game the tranny banny>tee hee I've never seen this mentioned on rpg net!
>>98760340>t. fishfag talking to himself to make it look like he's more than one person
>>98760340Hello rpgnet tranny
>>98756172He sounds pretty cool. I might look him up. I hope he's not a boomer conservative
>>98760454>a completely out of place ninjaIt's actually Roe R. Adams III's OC, the man who not only designed wizardry 4 (Where he flexes his OC even harder by it being the effective final boss,) but ultima 5, ran his own larp group, and co founded AnimEigo.Absolute Chad.
>>98760814Macris? He's a gen X libertarian
>>98760815>It's actually Roe R. Adams III's OC, the man who not only designed wizardry 4 (Where he flexes his OC even harder by it being the effective final boss,)That is actually pretty ballsy.At some point, whether it's Mordenkainen or Elminster or whoever, you gotta respect the hustle.
>>98760340I've never seen anybody mention lots of things outside of 4chan, it might have something to do with this website being a niche community for people with niche interests within a niche category. Do you think this is Reddit or something? Fuck they just go back to where you came from
>>98756172You don't have to convince me to buy more copies, I already own the game!
>>98748025My favorite Faerun moment was after 4e changed it for the worst and right before they undid almost all of it for 5e.So there's this brief window where Faerun is this nightmare world, and the players can help return it back.
>>98766060what did 4e do? forgive me but i ignored that game.
>>98766098Added this weird event called the "spellplague" magic as a whole broke for a good decade of inlore time, because mystra got assassinated.
>>98766060>bumping this trash thread on the brink>againpathetic
>>98752666Has anyone ever played this? Also where is journey to the west as a campaign setting?
I might be retardedI am genuinely unable to comprehend race as a class or even ACKS race-specific classes and when I try to make my own I come up with nothing uniqueMy elf wizard is just an elf wizard! He has pointy ears and elf traits but otherwise, at any level, he's just a damn wizardIs it my campaigns fault? Are my elves not special enough? Why do B/X players tell me it's not good to have an elf wizard, why does the elf wizard take space away from the human wizard?
>>98767499because of the idiotic idea that if an elf wizard and a human wizard exists that makes the human wizard less unique, when in fact you can just develop the elf wizard to be different enough from a human wizard so that both keep their uniqueness.Not to hate on B/X, there is value in it's simplicity but sometimes you want more.ACKS specific classes are cool and they are basically this: a different version of a basic class specific to a certain race.Either way what system are you using that has race and class as separate? 5e?
>>98767499on the point of races as class for elves or dwarves or halflings etc it is all about stereotyping the race into a very specific thing, so elves are warrior wizards, halflings are hardy thieves, dwarves are hardy fighters etcIt is all about a mostly humancentric world where these races are actively rare so that you dont meet weird races all the time and dont get into the problem of having all elves you ve met the last year during play being the same thingthis is obviously very constraining in worldbuilding and allows you to play exactly one game which is why adnd is the better game thematicallyIt allows the creative freedom that B/X stiffles.In B/Xs defense it was literally for kids and other brainlets so it tried to be as simple and stereotypical as possible
>>98767746It's why I like the ACKs way of race and class - rather than having an elf fighter that progresses exactly the same as a human fighter the elf variant of the fighter class (and the elf variant of the assassin/thief class) levels in a different way than their human counterpart.
>>98767499ACKS seems to just try to do everything in the least efficient way it can, in every aspect. It does class races in the way it does because it just wanted to sell more splatbooks, which is exactly the sort of thing that people don't want from actual OSR games.It reminds me of those old electronic games that advertised "5000 games in 1!" and it's actually just 5 games with 10 levels and 10 speed settings. When most other games want to give players more options like AD&D, they have separate race and class. When ACKS does it, it goes "here's the elf+fighter, the elf+mage, etc., and that will be $50 plus shipping"
>>98767499>>98767711>>98767746It's mostly a legacy of 3LBB, where the Dwarf and Halfling could only be Fighting-Men, and the Elf was an extremely strange rule-wise hybrid between a Fighting-Man and a Magic-User.
>Fish immediately blows a load as soon as someone mentions ACKSYou really don't have anything better to do, do you?
>ACKShill spends thousands of hours of his life trolling a thread because he's upset over no new marks visiting the thread he hijacked>"You really don't have anything better to do, do you?"
>>98767499Generally, in games that do race and class class becomes the main defining trait of the character and race becomes a template on top of that class, which I've heard as the "some humans have pointy ears and nightvision" problem.With race as class, you have a lot more opportunity to make the race a completely separate thing that goes about adventuring in a way that a human couldn't or wouldn't.Personally, I prefer race as class, but like pretty much everything it's going to come down to implementation. A really well-implemented race and class system is going to serve you better than a poorly implemented race as class system and vice versa.
>>98767885>Personally, I prefer race as classThat works for smaller, quick games that put intentional limits down. You read and pick between ten or so options, and you're off to the races.As you step up in complexity, it makes sense to split them and let the players combine the options, so you get a compounding effect where even a few options can become a huge amount of combinations. Even just five races and five classes can become twenty-five combinations, and increasing either number (or even adding a third component) results in whole new sets of options.>like pretty much everything it's going to come down to implementation.True. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and a good designer should be able to understand which is better for the scale of the game they're trying to run.
>>98767499>I am genuinely unable to comprehend race as a class or even ACKS race-specific classesWhat is it that you don't understand, Anon?>when I try to make my own I come up with nothing uniqueDesigning unique ACKS classes is all in the selection of custom powers, Anon. They provide not only flavour, but also distinct mechanical advantages that make each class unique.Check out By This Axe, the Heroic Fantasy Handbook, and the Player's Companion for a bunch of uniquely designed classes. You can make small tweaks to them or reskin them and then they are really unique.Specifically when it comes to Elf Wizards, check out Spellsinging in the Heroic Fantasy Handbook for a "power point" based casting system.
Totally get why he's called a shill.
>>98760454Ninja is a class in Wizardry. Samurai too.Predating even Oriental Adventures.
>>98767864Don't feed him, just ignore him, he is literally powerless except for the attention you give to him.And remember to report any trolling and off-topic posting.
>>98767711>>98767746>>98770132>Even just five races and five classes can become twenty-five combinationsThis is exactly the issue that I'm running into. Demihumans (elves, dwarves, lizardmen) are not so rare in my campaign, and not so alien that clerics of each race are different besides their baseline racial features. So I get the impression ACKS needs me to create several classes that are basically copypastes to serve every unique race the class (the real archetype) can be played as. What's the best play? Giving the racial traits to every class and then recalculating the experience requirements seems to be the best, yet still tedious.>inb4 just don't play acksBut i want to, the rest of the rules suit my campaign very well
>>98773006>ACKS needs me to create several classes that are basically copypastes to serve every unique race the class (the real archetype) can be played as. Pretty much, yes. After all, it stands to reason that e.g. Fighters have more in common with one another independently of race than they do with other classes.>What's the best play? Giving the racial traits to every class and then recalculating the experience requirements seems to be the best, yet still tedious.That's what I'd do. It doesn't take that long to do.An even simpler option is to start from an existing ACKS race-and-class and either leave it as it is, or swap one or two powers. If you do that, you don't even need to recalculate anything as long as you swap powers with the same cost.
>>98773006 ideally you would have a cleric template f.e. and then you will have some race specific stuff without fucking around with experience or anything else and you quickly make your version of the classes that you want.Yeah it would be good if ACKS had already done the work for you but alas
>>98773006>basically copypastesThat's exactly what ACKS is trying to talk you out of doing. This is your chance to lean in and really express how the races/cultures matter by showing how they go about the same thing differently.But if you really, truly feel like copypasta classes is the best way to do what you're trying to do, find some race and class patch and run it, instead. Better to switch up than try to force it.
>>98773006Best advice I can give? Don't give each class to each race.'Dwarves don't become thieves because they're too stout for sneaking around, instead you get to be an engineer, here's your crowbar' is a perfectly legit thing to say.Remember there's levels/tiers to race as well, a Dwarf 0 and a Dwarf 4 have different level caps, abilities and XP levels, they can play very differently.I'd say the way ACKS does racial classes is one of its biggest virtues, since it lets you create distinct cultures between different races."A lizardman fighter is basically a fighter who has an extra bite attack" is distinteresting."Lizardmen don't have fighters, they have 3 classes, spearmen, netmen and maulers, only netmen can use shields, none of them can use armour and none of them can ride human mounts, they have these distinct abilities" meanwhile immediately tells you something about Lizardman culture.Same for clerics. If you have a Elvish Cleric of the Forest Queen and a Human Cleric of the Lady of the Woods have distinct abilities that express their different cultural interpretations of the same Goddess, that tells you something about their people, culture and is effectively free world building real estate.Shit you can even do the same with different human cultures, if you're feeling particularly based and ballsy. Being able to go 'No, only the Kalishan of the Salt Deserts can become Wyrm Riders' makes the Kalishan distinct and pulls the players eye to them.I know it sounds counterintuitive, but creating some exclusivity is one of the best ways to make interesting races.When you tell everyone that Dwarves don't have clerics because they rose up, murdered their own god and instead have Speakers for the Dead, who dabble in Necromancy to send aid to their own ancestors in the eternal fight against the ghost of said god? That is far more interesting than 'Everyone worships the same gods'Lean into that.
>>98771125The reasons he's called a shill is because he's entirely motivated by pure cancer. It's why he's here, constantly flooding the thread with his ridiculous puppet shows about a game people have to force themselves to play, instead of staying in the containment thread he carved out for himself.He made his bed, and instead of lying in it, has moved on after killing the host. He's basically a virus.
>>98773049>When you tell everyone that Dwarves don't have clerics because they rose up, murdered their own god and instead have Speakers for the Dead, who dabble in Necromancy to send aid to their own ancestors in the eternal fight against the ghost of said god? That is far more interesting than 'Everyone worships the same gods'>Lean into that.This is great advice, it can be made into a kind of procedural approach.1. Start by considering the fundamental functions that any society must have to survive in your setting. This probably includes e.g. fighting, healing, disposing of undead.2. Add constraints. For example, this race uses no clerics, or no missile weapons, or its divine casters cannot heal.3. Ask yourself, how can this race survive under these constraints? And find ways to circumvent those issues.For instance no healing magic is circumvented by a dedicated lay healer class that has herbalism, healer, and veterinarian skills, with bonuses and new proficiencies gained as the class levels up (trade off through thievery).No missile weapons could be compensated for through magic: Check out of ranged blast and death spells in the Divine and Arcane lists, either use create the existing ones or create your own, and make sure that a suitable % of the population is able to use at least one of those spells at first level.Another alternative to traditional artillery might be training flying monsters that can harass the enemy's own artillery, either with direct attacks (if they fly fast enough the enemy artillery won't be able to attack more than once), or by flying up above them out of range and dropping stones on them.Now some of the classes you come up with might be more suitable for NPCs than for PCs, but that's okay because it contributes to building your setting anyway, and they can breed additional ideas.Last but not least, remember not to feed the seething schizo and to hide and report him if and when he breaks any rules.
Chatgpt is more human.
>>98773220>1. Start by considering the fundamental functions that any society must have to survive in your setting. This probably includes e.g. fighting, healing, disposing of undead.>2. Add constraints. For example, this race uses no clerics, or no missile weapons, or its divine casters cannot heal.>3. Ask yourself, how can this race survive under these constraints? And find ways to circumvent those issues.Good stuff. Personally I always go with 'Who are they, what resources do they have, what's their story'Combine two out of these three things and you can create a class, or take a class and reverse out into two or even all three of those things.>Dwarves + Dead god -> No clerics, instead necromancers>I want Dwarves to not have clerics and have necromancers instead -> What if they killed their god and are currently fighting the skeleton war in the afterlife?Just make sure you work out how different things fit together if you're going to do it that way, otherwise you risk things clashing. For example if you want evil human necromancers or necromancy to be taboo in human lands, that could either be a point of conflict between dwarves and humans ('You raise your dead?' "You pay your tribute to the Gods?") or to add layering to the setting ('When we first met the Dwarves we assumed their Necromancers were like ours, enslaving the unwilling to their will, disturbing the peace of the dead. But the Dwarven Dead have no peace, they do not rest easily as ours. And they are ever eager to fight once more in the lands of the living for those who come after, so we do not challenge their ways. They're good, if odd friends, while Necromancers of our own kind are the equivalent of slavers, kidnapping the innocent from their peace')A cohesive setting is important. Once your players can start working out based on culture, history, politics, what might be going on in most given situations they can make informed decisions without needing infodumps.
>>98773130He writes like he gets paid by the pound.
>He's having an actual honest to god sulkGood, glad you're upset. Keep being so, it makes having actual discussions all the more enjoyable.
>>98773328>actual discussionsHow adorable. This robot thinks its people.
>>98773259>what resources do they have, what's their storyRelated idea: When generating resources for a settlement using the ACKS rules, apply race-based modifiers. For example, Dwarf settlements get +3 to metals and everybody else gets -3. This can be justified historically by the Dwarves finding those places in ages past and/or fighting to get them. This gives you not only a historical background that makes sense, but also one that has tangible consequences on the setting, and creates political tensions and opportunities to arbitrage for PCs>>98773328Please stop feeding the schizo troll. The only power he has is the attention you give to him. Hide and report.
>>98773252>>98773304His "style" whenever he tries to discuss games is always this sort of dead-eyed droning that's got this particular.. stench about it. I think a big part of why he chose to have a personal vendetta against fish is because he shares a lot in common with one left out in the sun.
>>98773372>a troll thinks that he can troll by spamming forced game discussionMan, there really is nothing sacred to you.
>>98773380He's flooding because he hopes everyone won't see when he showed he's not just "ha ha 4chan so funny" racist but actually "i'm actually ignorant and don't understand how race even works" racist.
>>98773372>Please stop feeding the schizo troll. The only power he has is the attention you give to him. Hide and report.Given he's in a secondary thread and reduced to not even interacting with other people for fear of being banned and this was done by everyone dogging on him until he fucked off?I don't agree. I think mocking him for being a subhumanoid is far more effective than ignoring him.Also>SacredMore attempts at magic words eh champ?
>>98773414You do you, but he suffers more when he's ignored.
>>98773414>>98773418>ACKShill keeps trying to flip things like he thinks he's the one with any powerThe only power you have is to drive people away from you. That's genuinely sad.
>>98773414This is the primary thread at this point, hence why you're here, especially considering your containment thread is nothing more than the same forced chatter you just showed off that you can generate here. You keep going on about how you're only here to mock your imaginary nemesis, but the reality is that only via your obsessive trolling do you get anyone real to pay attention to you. Your efforts to talk about games consistently stall out threads because you're not speaking with any motivation worth considering and it shows through.Rather than shilling your game that's also essentially dead in the containment thread you killed where no one will complain about it, you specifically come here just to try and troll with it.
>>98773457I think the filters are helping.He tried dodging them earlier in the thread. That means he's getting upset about them.
