Welcome to Open OSR. This is a seperate thread is for open discussions of OSR, OSR-adjacent and retro games. You can talk about all OSR (Pre Wotc D&D, & retroclones) & OSR-adjacent (Mork Borg, Shadowcity etc) games without distinction here.There is a general for those who only want to talk about "first decade" D&D. If that is your preference, you can find that elsewhere.As always, report and ignore any trollingPrevious thread:>>98776634Thread Question:What are your favorite Traps to use in a dungeon?
>guy tells us he's gonna run 1e>"I've been running it for decades. I can do it with zero prep, know all the rules by heart, etc.">first game>after three hours of wandering, we enter a dungeon>we hear the sound of thousands of tiny feet clicking around inside a room>nope>try and go around it, but find no path forward>we open the door a little>several huge centipedes rush out>there's 15 of them>they crawl on the ceiling, drop down on the MU, and paralyze him>we kill several of them, but we all end up paralyzed, and the remaining three centipedes slowly kill us all>"go on, roll new characters.">spend half an hour making a new party that's very similar to the last one.>retrace our steps.>kill the remaining three centipedes and loot our own corpses>three rooms later, half the party dies when someone touches a large mushroom and the entire room fills with poisonous spores>we go back to the nearest town to find more PCsWe ended the night there. Most of the game was very systematic and it doesn't feel like a lot happened, but at the same time we had 6 PCs die and that seems like a big deal.
I never know what equipment to bring.-water-rations-oil-lantern-rope-backpack-bedroll-spare tunicI always bring that. I tried lots of other gear but never really needed it.
>>98812951>What are your favorite Traps to use in a dungeon?I like traps with a biological/monster component. A tripwire that pulls a jar so that bunch of angry snakes come out. A pit trap with a chained zombie at the bottom. A 10x10 foot room where a pressure plate makes a gelatinous cube drop down from the ceiling. That sort of thing.
>>98813436Ink and paper. Lots of uses. I used some in my last game to communicate with some wild dwarves using pictures.Mirrors.Walking stick/Pole.String/Cord. i use it almost as often as I use rope.
>>98812951>What are your favorite Traps to use in a dungeon?I like bear traps. I particularly like them because players often repurpose them.
>>98813436Sheepskin condom.
I just joined my first AD&D 1E game. I'm to make 2 characters and I rolled well for stats, well enough for a Ranger and a Paladin.I'm really walking into this game blind. What should I know? Any tips or tricks?
>>98813709Pretty much the one thing you WONT need when you're playing D&D
>>98813830Definitely play ranger and paladin if you can. They're both pretty great. The ranger in particular is very good at low levels.>I'm really walking into this game blind.That's might be the best way. Going in with an open mind and being adaptable will help let the DM explain things in a way that won't have you confused.I'd just advise to be extra cautious until you at least have a little more HP.
>>98812951>What are your favorite Traps to use in a dungeon?The ACKS RR has great tables to generate random traps by dungeon depth, mechanism of action, and so on. Couple this with the revision to the Thief's ability to find and remove traps and dark senses and it makes for a much better game than B/X already is.
>>98813436You should check out the ACKS equipment lists and ways to use the items. They're really good.
>>98813830>>98813925Ranger is good. Paladin is very good too. Hit points are important. Thank you for this organic and very insightful discussion. Great thread guys, keep it up.
>>98813830Read the Old School Primer, Read Muster: a primer for war if you want to go all in.Always carry rope, torches, and a 10 foot pole.>>98814009Still using BX over that ai slop game.>>98813580How do you signpost it?
>>98813830If you read the rules you should be good.Try not to waste too much time in dangerous places: time is your most important resource.
Quick reminder to add filters by going to settings and then using them to ignore all the troll posts.Do not engage with them, just ignore them.
>>98813436Unironically this, >>98814015 the templates basically provide a class equipment list (sans water rations and similar basics) that are a good thing to note even if you don't play ACKS
>>98813436Get all the anti-vampire gear.
>>98812951>What are your favorite Traps to use in a dungeon?cute ones with long hair and tight asses
>>98815115That's how you can guarantee you will never encounter a vampire.
>>98815115>a "bud" of garlic costs as much as a silver tipped arrowWhy do people go adventuring when you could make thousands of gold just by farming garlic.
>>98815227Farming garlic is how you get murdered by vampires.
>>98814367I was thinking of the ACKS equipment descriptions actually, not of the template equipment list, but yours is great advice too.
>>98813370why didn't you have 15 fighters?
>>98815306Oh wow, I was expecting trash, but this is some true fucking garbage.It's possibly the worst thing you could have posted to a guy looking for advice on useful items to bring; not just one list filled with useless items, but a dozen lists.How are you so genuinely stupid all the time? Even blaming CuCKS for being such a shitty anti-OSR game that actively makes people worse players/GMs wouldn't explain how you're such a dumb retard.
>>98813830>I rolled well for stats, well enough for a Ranger and a PaladinThat's an obvious lie. The odds of rolling well enough to qualify for both classes with Method I are less than 1/1000.>>98814038Yeah, Fishfag's fake activity is extremely weak and transparent kek"What equipment do you like? What class should I play?" Nothing but zero-content spam about level 1 concerns before the game, i.e. the only thing a total nogames thinks he can fake credibility in. It's funny too how he can't help himself from having these ostensible newposters appear at the beginning of every troll thread and never otherwise. Like just for one thing you'd expect half of them to end up in the actual general out of pure random chance.
>>98815322If you really want to see some hilarious cope,https://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2022/05/anti-featuresthe-equipment-list.htmlThis fag spends several paragraphs explaining why OSR is all about having simple equipment lists, and then cries about 2e taking a "more is more" approach and listing out a greater variety of goods. But, to really showcase his hypocrisy, he says that ACKS's bloated mess of a more-is-more-is-more equipment list is fine because players might engage in trading and selling, as if the same couldn't be said about 2e. That's the fundamental problem with these ACKS-infected OSR-corruptors who make all their decisions based around political allegiances, of all things. They have to perform this impossible effort of rationalizing how 2e is supposed to be an extreme departure from the OSR formula while not also omitting their pet system, and that results in situations where we've got a guy saying the solution to too many rules is having even more rules to govern those rules. I think it all comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of what "gameplay" is. It's that kind of misunderstanding that resulted in BECMI moving B/X in an unpopular and unwieldy direction by giving poorly considered and designed rules in places where DM fiat is generally superior. 2e also committed that same crime, with the Battlesystem in particular being an example of stapling what was essentially a brand new game on top of an existing one when even just one page of rules could have done the job. "Gameplay" is not seeing rules smack into other rules and seeing how well you can exploit Designer/GM oversights. That's the fundamental idea behind "rulings over rules", and why trying to run RPGs like video games just leads to playing subpar RPGs that don't take advantage of the format and instead burden themselves. BECMI and 2e were moving in that direction, but still retain the essential core of what separates OSR games from Post-3e modern ones.
>This retard can't tell the difference between 'Well the book has Perfume by the bottle in it but no trade mechanics' vs 'This game has the trade value of a pound of incense and full trade mechanics'People have told you why 2e isn't OSR, you just refuse to listen.Cope louder about it though.
>>98815322>How are you so genuinely stupid all the time? Even blaming CuCKS for being such a shitty anti-OSR game that actively makes people worse players/GMs wouldn't explain how you're such a dumb retard.Why are you looking for a complex explanation. He's retarded. Some people just are.>>98815478>I think it all comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of what "gameplay" is.It's not misunderstanding. It's being bad at roleplaying and wanting the game to focus on the other parts.It's guys with no real-life charisma trying to find their niche in RPGs, and that niche is making the game a spreadsheet simulator boardgame.
>>98815511>more rules make more rules betterThat's why you're retarded.
>>98815524>"This game contains incredibly specific costings on weapons and various types of ammo to fill out pages, but no rules on how to use them. This means those weapons are mother-may-I bullshit and effectively useless. This other game contains combat rules to actually use them, therefore they're no longer just filler.">'Hah, hypocrite, you said they're bad in one game but not the other. But more rules am better am I right, hurrrrrrrrrrrrrr'Just because you're a military grade brainlet doesn't mean the rest of us have to put up with your bullshit.
>>98815511>no trade mechanicsBuddy, you can buy and trade in every D&D edition. The kind of shit you come up with to try and cope with how one form of bloat is bad but a significantly even bloatier form of bloat is okay should be studied by psychologists.
>>98815539>OH GOD, I HAVE 100 lbs OF SALT AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH IT>AAAAHHHHH SAVE ME RULESBLOAT MAKE RULES TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!vs.>"The salt merchant you just saved apologizes for having not much gold on him, but prays that you'll accept 100lbs of salt as a gift.">"We thank him. Let's see... Salt is 1sp per lb, so that gives us 100sp... for a pretty heavy load.">"No worries. There's sure to be a butcher nearby who'd gladly buy it from us. They go through a hundred pounds every week at least.">"Aye, I'm betting we might get a good deal if we offer to purchase some salted pork in the process. I could use a couple pounds.">"Looking at your belly, I'd say you could stand to lose a few.">*hearty, merry laughter*
>Be me, forever DM.Spend WEEKS prepping "Whispering Caves" goblin dungeon. >Got a map, custom traps, whole thing.>Standard adventure hook: 100 gold for clearing the pests. >Easy filler session.>Party is FTR, WIZ, CLR. Too high level, supposed to just roll over it.>Session starts. They stop 50 feet from the cave, ignore the entrance, and take a "break.">I throw traps and even a Pendant of Defense at them. >Ignored.>Their focus fixates on the surrounding forest. They spend two hours adjudicating NWP checks for valuable forage.>They are prepping for "perishable treasure" they haven't even found. I am losing the plot.>They actually find a haul.>FTR rolls obsessive Survival/Forage checks and uncovers an inexplicable mountain of fresh salmon, enough for a small city, stashed nearby.>WIZ uses a carefully restrained Burning Hands to hot-smoke the fillets.>CLR is now a master sommelier for fish cures.>Abandon the quest. Goblins still there.>Return to town and sell their "gourmet delicacy." Sold out instantly.>Net 50 gold profit. Half the dungeon reward, earned safely via Charisma checks and artisanal food production.>My AD&D 2e campaign is now a small business simulator.>All because they started fishing instead of dungeon crawling.
>>98815478>I think it all comes down to a fundamental misunderstanding of what "gameplay" is. It's that kind of misunderstanding that resulted in BECMI moving B/X in an unpopular and unwieldy direction by giving poorly considered and designed rules in places where DM fiat is generally superior. 2e also committed that same crime, with the Battlesystem in particular being an example of stapling what was essentially a brand new game on top of an existing one when even just one page of rules could have done the job.>"Gameplay" is not seeing rules smack into other rules and seeing how well you can exploit Designer/GM oversights. That's the fundamental idea behind "rulings over rules", and why trying to run RPGs like video games just leads to playing subpar RPGs that don't take advantage of the format and instead burden themselves. BECMI and 2e were moving in that direction, but still retain the essential core of what separates OSR games from Post-3e modern ones.I think it comes from a very specific myth.D&D promoted itself as being very fine-tuned. Every adventure was scientifically calculated and rigorously tested. Changing the rules could lead to unforeseen disaster. Only official D&D products could be trusted.In hindsight it's pretty funny though, especially for experienced DMs. Adventures were wonky messes, the rules were unbalanced, and a lot of the fun came from not knowing when the system would just fall apart. Every time I read one of those blurbs at the start of an adventure explaining how carefully and precisely designed it is, I feel like I'm looking at one of those antique wooden clocks that loses forty minutes every day. Still brilliant, but I won't be using one to set my watch.
>>98815677>the rules were unbalancedGo back to /3eg/ and /5eg/, tourist.
>>98815677>BECMI and 2e were moving in that direction, but still retain the essential core of what separates OSR games from Post-3e modern ones.You're wrong, Anon. BECMI is OSR, but 2e isn't.
>>98815688Unbalanced rules are part of the old school charm.
>>98815691Read the Quick Primer, newfag.
>>98815695You wouldn't know the difference, since you believe that the bowdlerised knock-off for the storygaming special education kids of satanic panic moms is OSR.
>>98815738>Now go read the Quick Primer already.I've read it. It's retarded as is obvious to everybody who plays OSR.You go read Melan on 2e insteadhttps://beyondfomalhaut.blogspot.com/2022/10/blog-osr-module-o5-2e-is-still-not-old.html
>>98815764>another total nobody who's contributed nothing to the hobby but retarded butthurt blog posts and other mediocre writingMan, your "heroes" are so fucking lame. Is the reason you prop them up because you have so few people that agree with you? Or are you just Gabor yourself?
>>98815478>2e is an extreme departure from the OSR formulaGlad you finally realized this! Yes, it's an extreme departure, diametrically opposed one might say.
>>98815812>"I can subjectively claim they're the best!">no one buys them>no one cares about himNot really gonna convince anyone that his opinion is so important that everyone else has to dismiss their own and adopt his.
>>98815786>wrote Xyntillan, Khosura, Echoes, Melan diagrams, and crucially the blog post explaining why 2e is not OSR>"contributed nothing"vs.>sperged out about ACKS to a bizarre extent>apparently contributed enough to be fit to judge the contributions of others somehowjej
>>98815677>D&D promoted itself as being very fine-tuned. Every adventure was scientifically calculated and rigorously tested.I used to read a French Old School e-zine, La Gazette du Donjon, that provided what to me felt like a fresh approach towards its reviews of older adventures. It was very matter-of-fact in a way that felt unclouded, with the actual review portion often just a single paragraph that tended to be quite blunt about the adventure's failings. I think old adventure reviews in general have become much more honest and less muddled by nostalgia in recent years. A lot of older reviews read like "Video game reviews in a magazine owned by the publisher", which I think comes from Dragon Magazine being one of the biggest source of game reviews for many years and helping set the wider tone and style of them.
>>98816060>a French Old School e-zine, La Gazette du DonjonAbsolute nevergames dogshit.
>>98816060That art is amazing.
>>98816060Dragon magazine was pretty harsh on TSR products from time to time. It also used to review non-TSR games and promote them. Dragon got a lot of money from non-TSR advertisers, so it wouldn't work as just a pro-TSR magazine.
BECMI is better than B/X.
>>98816081It's something.
>>98816243No, BECMI is in large part crap. The expansion to level 36 is irredimable, the Thief nerf is retarded, and the Immortals set is not even D&D.If you want what BECMI promised but wasn't able to deliver, you should play ACKS.
>>98816559ACKS you say? Tell me more.
>>98816559...to see what happens when an even less competent designer takes all the mistakes of BECMI and miraculously manages to make an even worse game?ACKS is such a fucking shitshow. It manages to even fuck up B/X combat, something even BECMI didn't do.
>>98816566Not just a worse designer than Mentzer, but a more embarrassing human overall.And that's saying something, considering that Mentzer was the original king of career-ending meltdowns. Though, to be fair, Mentzer wasn't the worst designer. He just didn't really understand what made B/X good, and bloated it unnecessarily.
>>98816582There's probably a connection between people who like excessive amounts of rules and people who crash out because of their egos. If you were to draw a venn diagram, it'd likely be a circle.
>>98816601Mentzer wasn't that much of a rulesplayer. Relatively speaking, BECMI has more rules than B/X, but B/X was practically a lite system and a lot of the rules that Mentzer added in the Companions material was just stuff that players had been asking for rules for. As BECMI continued, it did start to scrape the bottom of the barrel, but I think that happens to a lot of systems/editions.
>>98816564About the three things mentioned.Level cap: 14. Anything beyond level 16 is a lie to sell books to nevergames, Gygax himself said that D&D stops working after around level 16 at the most.Thief: The ACKS Thief is by far the best implementation in any D&D or D&D-derived game. 1. Demihumans don't have infravision (like in OD&D). Thieves get Dark Senses instead, making it specialised in operating in darkness.2. Thieves can search, sneak, or hide as they explore (with a penalty). This means that, starting from medium levels, they are actually an exploration powerhouse.3. They get both backstabs and cleaves. This makes them formidable in surprise situations.4. Downtime for Thieves and Assassins is tons of fun, with a dozen or more options for hijnks that they can do.Immortality: The rules for divine ascension (apotheosis in ACKS II parlance) actually make sense, unlike the railroading storyfaggot nevergames retardery that is the BECMI master's set.
>>98816644>Relatively speaking, BECMI has more rules than B/XThe issue is not the number of rules, but their quality. A good 80% of the later three books is absolute crap. And Mentzer came out many years ago as not playtesting anything because he thought he was a genius who didn't need to do that lol lmao even
>>98816656>>98816670You really have this weird thing where you want to try to talk about OSR games, but then your devotion to ACKS ends up fucking everything up because you have to try and perform mental gymnastics to excuse its failings. BECMI's rules got worse and worse as the game got more bloated, but the early rules were vaguely useful. ACKS, on the otherhand, has worse rules in every conceivable way except in raw amount, with their main flaw being that they're just about always going to be more bloated than any version of any rules you're going to find anywhere else, because Macris thinks bloat is good and deliberately made his game to be as bloated as it could be.When he failed to reach an arbitrarily determined page count, despite having already made a game that's basically an endless series of "student padding it out to hit the assigned word count" essays, he threw in even more bloat and some AI generated images just in case there was anyone who might think he wasn't a complete and total faggot.
>>98816656>1. Demihumans don't have infravision (like in OD&D).I'm glad you pointed this out! Many people seem to think this is an innovation by Macris (and criticize him for it), rather than a reversion to the original game as it is. IMO it's always legitimate to turn back to OD&D, the most heavily playtested edition.
>>98813709Make sure to have it properly etched.
Is it wrong to romance a follower?
>>98816243BECMI has a few rules worth looking into, but most haven't actually aged all that well. I think what's helped B/X age better than a lot of the other originals is that it was deliberately kept limited.
>>98816697Why do you have to reply with a malding wall of text anytime somebody mentions that game? Just add it to the filter list if you really dislike it that much
>>98816582>Mentzer was the original king of career-ending meltdowns.Are you talking about when he left TSR because they fired Gygax? That wasn't a meltdown, that was loyalty.
>>98815115>wooden cross>silver crossDoes that mean Jesus existed in Greyhawk and Blackmoor?
>>98817823If you want serious answers to sincere questions, you should post them in /osrg/.If you must post in this troll thread, kindly at least sage your post so you don't bump the thread.
>>98817982No one cares about your first decade cult. Fuck off back there, faggot.
>>98817992Kindly stop ban evading for the purpose of bumpfagging this thread. I'm pretty sure that's against the global rules.
>>98817823It's probably Saint Cuithbert's cross.Why there's a god called a saint with a cross is an even deeper mystery.
>>98815677>D&D promoted itself as being very fine-tuned. Every adventure was scientifically calculated and rigorously tested. Changing the rules could lead to unforeseen disaster. Only official D&D products could be trusted.Either you play AD&D, or you play something else!™
>>98817992>first decade cultLmao, you mean the OSR?
>>98817992No. You fuck off back to plebbit, fishfag
>>98817359Fishfag's whole reason for being on 4chan is throwing autistic meltdowns at ACKS and trying to raise a subhuman army against /osrg/. It's his whole personality.
