Hey hey sorry if I'm doing this wrong I don't go here often but I'm requesting an idea I can't get out of my head

(I hope there are any scp writers or anyone familiar with SCP, it'd also be nice to know if there's a thread for this but-)

Baisically requesting a gay fic of SCP-3307 and a completely random scientist or d class or whatever the fuck (not a canon member of the scp foundation obviously) where the scientists favourite food is condensed milk, and since 3307 can also expell food from his dick the scientist jacks him off for purely scientific purposes. (He decided to volunteer to test him solely for this purpose.)

To be clear 3307 is a bit gross and if you don't wanna read it it's understandable just know that he's a normal dude that whenever he sees perceives someone's presence he throws up their favourite food

It'd be nice if it could follow the standard SCP log formula as i really like reading those but could also just be regular shit

I don't really want either of them to have distinct features, just that they're both men...and that the scientist is just slightly perverted under that very clinical attitude.

...would love a scene where the scientist maybe tries their favourite food. You know. For science.

Thanks in advance!

tags: gay m/m SCP uhh food milk condensed milk scientist slight ethical violation in the foundation male on male no sex hand job handjob

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>>80795231
Previous thread stories

The Day God Stopped Writing
https://rentry.co/harbd3hu
>TTRPG, Isekai, grimdark setting, other tags unknown

AnonxSheep Slave
https://rentry.org/89nb5rth
>Hmofa, collared, noncon, dubcon, slavery, maledom/femsub, missionary, reverse cowgirl, fellatio, doggystyle, impregnation, pregnant sex

Burya polov: Or, an effeminate Russian boy's story, Chapter Seven
https://rentry.org/burya-polov-ch7
>work-safe, SFW, lighthearted, surreal comedy, magic, superheroes, slice of life, effeminate male protagonist, tomboy protagonist

World's Strongest C-Class!, Pizza Parlor Panic pt. 3
https://www.deviantart.com/samaster/art/WSCC-Pizza-Parlor-Panic-pt-3-1277604785
>SFW, tags unknown

Pie Family Horror Story: Banned Footage Vol. 3
https://www.deviantart.com/samaster/art/Pie-Family-Horror-Story-Banned-Footage-Vol-3-1288627519
>ftf, zombie girl, erotic horror, clownification, MLP fanfiction

Link anything I missed

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>>80798829
from #356.1

Mink Cuddling
https://rentry.org/minkcomfsession
>Hmofa, M human/F Mink, cuddling, short, handholding

Green Feathers
https://archiveofourown.org/works/77568426
>Human x very inhuman alien, roommates at space college sort of thing. About 6k words. Also, fair warning, very gay. Probably the gayest thing I've ever written

Cake Board Chaos
https://rentry.org/uw5bwxn8
>Fairy Tail, yuri, ass-focused, groping/spanking

The Little Tinkerbat that Could, Chapter 10.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/47769337/chapters/203286771
>Shantae (series), Tinkerbat, amputation, recovery, Twitch, Vinegar, Interrogation, stripping, humiliation, stealth mission

JCTTG: The Void Father's Prophecy
https://www.deviantart.com/samaster/art/JCTTG-The-Void-Father-s-Prophecy-1285634575
>CYOA, Isekai, family drama,

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Uuuuuhh Sneks

>>80795231
Goodness, this thread has been slower than normal all month

I miss the sneks

bumpo

>>80795231
I know you're really enthusiastic about the general, but it might be time for it to finally go on a break instead of making a new one immediately after a thread falls. I think the vast majority are either spent, burnt, or too busy working on the next big update to their stuff to really contribute outside of the usual goers

>>80811876
It's moreso a concern about having the thread up for when somebody is ready to share their work. I wouldn't necessarily expect people to watch the catalog for when /wfg/ goes up. But I'd be fine with making the general on a weekly schedule so that there's at least a bit of consistency.

up

Any suggestions regarding overusing words? I've been inserting snippets of my work into WordCount and found that I have a few repeating words at high percentages like "but, "alongside", and "before". It feels like I should make shorter sentences and utilize them more sparingly, but then they personally come across as awkwardly paced.

>>80823036
Don't be afraid to use short sentences. Short ones are better than run-on sentences that go on for paragraphs.

>>80823036
In between words are fine to use. They are the words that connect things in a sentence. You don't think about overusing words like 'the' or 'in'.

What you should be concerned about is overusing adjectives, things that are descriptors, used in imagery, those should be varied. You also don't just have to boil down a description into a single word, but dedicate a sentence to better fleshing it out.

For instance- is someone 'horny' or 'they have a lust that burns with passion of a thousand firey suns'.

Likewise be more concerned with repeating a turn of phrase, or even nouns. Names are important but if you find someones name coming up too much, think about an epithet for them. For instance, Batman is also referred to as the Dark Knight.

>>80823450
>You also don't just have to boil down a description into a single word, but dedicate a sentence to better fleshing it out.
Every word you add dilutes the rest of the work. Purple prose is rarely worth the cost.
>think about an epithet for them
Terrible advice. Epithets are an amateurish fanfic cliche, not something professional writers regularly use.
>Batman is also referred to as the Dark Knight
In titles of works, yes, but not in narrative. Comics are a visual media; they have speech bubbles.

>>80824185
You're not wrong. But at the same time the amount of words you use to describe something tells the audience the importance of that something. Trying to get everything to be as laconic as possible isn't always the answer.

It can also be useful for telling the audience what headspace to be in.

If I just say 'it was hot outside' then the audience gathers that the temperatures outside isn't that important. If you say 'it was beautiful and sunny and bright' then it tells them that generally the mood is meant to be good. If you instead say 'the heat was oppressive and the sun was glaring' then they learn that the mood is meant to be worse.

>Terrible advice. Epithets are an amateurish fanfic cliche, not something professional writers regularly use.
>>Batman is also referred to as the Dark Knight
>In titles of works, yes, but not in narrative. Comics are a visual media; they have speech bubbles.
Tell that to the ancient Greeks man. They loved epithets. That's where the word comes from. They're awesome. They just need to be earned is all.

Names are quite important, but they aren't all that informative at times. What do you think about someone named John? Or Hank? Does it tell you much about the role they play in the story? Think about how Harry Potter is also 'the boy who lived.'

Of course I'm not advocating you use such fanciful titles in narration constantly. But that you can spice up narration by not always using a name to describe someone. Something like 'the bootylicious babe' or 'the scrawny boy' or some such.

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So hey, something to talk about-

I was deciding to update the Pie Family Horror Story PDF- I'd wait until it was finished, but since a couple chapters of a different story of mine were deleted, I figured it would be better to be safe.

Anyway- it got me thinking on how I might want to readjust my outline.

Firstly- I realized I didn't stick Fluttershy in the current arc, and I should have her show up. I'm thinking maybe she's in a hallway in the attic before the 'boss' fight with Pinkamena. Maybe holding up a sign. But I'm wondering what that might say that could hype up the next encounter.

Anyway after that the next Pie Sister to deal with is Marble. And I was thinking to follow the formula that Search-Light has to find the Marble Key in the main house (she's hanging out in the trailer in the back yard). But this is where I'm thinking, I think each trip to the main house should include something different, and that's where I need to come up with something original.

Now I was thinking earlier that we see the Zombimbo's in their different costumes as Search-Light has dealt with them, they've been left to wander. But I gave it a second thought, and figured that works way better for the last trip to the Main House.

Likewise I was thinking that Maud has a 2.0 transformation in her last confrontation with Search-Light, which would be when he needs to confront the Mom (finding the Cloud Key), and that it would be fun to combine this with a blackout motif- the storm that's been rising in intensity knocks out the power-grid, and we only see things lit by lightning. Which would also help I think recast everything else in the area since there'd be no lights in the yard to navigate with either.

But that still leaves me with nothing to do for the next house visit. I'm thinking it should be short though, both cause that'll be easier to write, and it'll create contrast with the likely longer final visit.

Maybe I could do something with the basement being opened up? I figured there's shortcut from the attic to the basement with Pinkie Pie's Party Cave (in case you don't remember this was shown off in the second banned footage chapter). And maybe he gets the confetti launcher that was shown earlier.

I still think I should do a twist with Maud though, especially to show that her sanity is starting to fray cause she's so horny and Search-Light keeps evading her. And ideally something fun with the Zombimbo's too.

Zike was enjoying the warm sandy shore, and gentle ocean breeze. He saw a dodo walk around, and he thought his lunch was free. Zike chased the dodo with a spear, and readied for the kill, but as soon as he was winding up a raptor stole his meal.

Zike was ready for nightfall he prepared all day. Chopping wood for the fires and building a place to stay. Zike was ready for some rest zike earned a full nights sleep. If only he hadn't built his shack where therizinos reap.

Jorm was cooking colorful dyes. His pot was full of strange plant life. With a bit of water and heated flames. What was in the pot would leave nothing looking plain.

Zep was resting in the night. Zep awoke to quite a fright. Where he left his whiskey loose there was a box of apple juice.

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>Get burnt out on writing something. Can't make new ideas for it, just hard stuck where I was.
>Go write something new based on the frustration of that.
>burn out on writing that story, can't brainstorm or make new ideas for it. Hard stuck after several drafts of it.
>Continue ad infinitum until I quit because I cannot get anything done. Convince myself I will eventually finish a story.

Is the burnout loop beatable or am I NGMI

>>80834450
It is beatable, but it takes willpower and reevaluating your approach. The "Go write something new" step is a trap.

>>80834504
What worked for you?

>>80834532
I don't really have this problem. For me, it's more an issue of motivation and sticking to a routine. As ling as I can keep churning out words on a regular basis, I'm fine, but once I fall out of the cycle, I fall out hard.

For you, I'd say the problem is that you need to find something to do when you get stuck that isn't starting a new writing project. Maybe since you already have a number of unfinished stories, keep rotating through them until you finish one. Maybe just indulge in a hobby for a while (though be wary that you might be tempted to just not resume writing at all). Or try switching to a different medium. I'd suggest learning to draw, so that you can feel a different sort of frustration and feel compelled to work on your writing again for a change.

Rich Signed the post card, and placed it in his satchel. Rich was done with the bustle, and the hassle. Rich thirstier than a lasso, and ready to ship his message to El Paso.

Orpy went for a drink from the sink. He wanted to escape the heat. Then he turned to the oven, and cooked up some ant meat.

The year was 20xx. Because the old ways and traditions were forgotten, the Dark Lord Nosferatu, formerly a vampire, returned from hell.

>>80834450
Inspiration is a real thing, and it can definitely run out. To me letting stories rest helps as I build up the desire to revisit them, and work on ideas on the background.

I also listen to music coming up with scenes. Also what's important is not just making the story for the audience, but for yourself. Don't be afraid to do dumb tangents or the like because you the author find it fun. Writing being fun is the main way to not get burnt out.

I'm gonna bump this with a question. I don't usually browse this general but I'm genuinly curious on how you anons stay focused when writing. I'd like to dick around and write some stuff but get bored after five minutes, or so. Got ideas I wanna write out but little drive to do it, what do?

>>80842123
I tend to dip in and out of writing. When I realize though that I've procrastinated too long, it's usually a sign I need to re-evaluate where I am in the story and what I'm trying to accomplish.

up

>>80842728
>it's usually a sign I need to re-evaluate where I am in the story and what I'm trying to accomplish.
Maybe? I mean, I have a few instances like that but at the same time I kinda struggle to find an ending I like for some of my shorter stories. Also spend a bunch on details that shouldn't really matter? I don't know...

>>80846528
What I struggle with are transitions. I have scenes I want to do, but then I have to figure out a not cheap way to move one scene into another. And that's usually where I find myself checking out and needing to re-evaluate.

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>https://www.deviantart.com/samaster/art/Pink-Bloodmoon-Day-1-Pt-1-1267103838
Pink Bloodmoon: Day 1, Pt. 2
>medieval fantasy, erotic horror, bimbofication

Bringing back this story, I had part of this chapter done for a while, but couldn't concentrate while I was working on other stories, but right now I've hit a lot of milestones with my other stories so I had the mental headspace and concentrate on this.

Anyway, it's a prequel to the previous arc, that shows us what was going on when the Pink Bloodmoon first showed up. Though we cut off before any sexy action happens, this is mostly a setup and lore chapter. Still I'd love if anyone were to check it out.

>>80842123
I wish I had an easy answer to this, because I struggle with it, too. I find that practice makes it easier. If I can consistently write every day, even if I have to force myself into it at first, it gets easier to focus and put words on the page as time goes on. Plus it has the benefit that the progress adds up fast.

sexo with GlaDOS

I find myself wondering what story I should do next.

>>80857826
anal vore mystery

>>80858539
Someone did that already. Google the movie Buttboy.

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>>80857826
I have a suggestion...

>>80857826
I have several ideas about hyper pregnancy and extreme weight gain if you're interested.

>>80863200
Post it anyways

up

>>80857826
Venlil stuff. Gay Venlil stuff.

up

>>80863786
1.Five girls are kidnapped by an evil organization, who plans to use them as monster breeders. Third party intervenes, saving and empowering them to fight back against the bad guys. However, intervention is a little too late, the monsters are already growing inside the girls making them pregnant and causing rapid weight gain. The girls must master their new powers, save the world and hopefully themselves before they become immobile, give birth or burst.

2.Some teens decide to hold a Halloween party at an abandoned mansion and find themselves being hunted by...something. The twist is that the teens and their entire community are fat and 'pregnant' with parasites and the hunter is trying to 'help' them. Alternatively, the parasites are more or less harmless, but the hunter wants to weaponize them.

Lads I need small writing exercise resources
After waging I've got no fucking time to work on the shit I want to, so I want to hammer out bad habits in these tiny windows

>>80880578
I remember one from an English class. It was on poems, but could probably work for prose too.

Pick a handful of words, ideally words that are a bit more provocative. Maybe there's a random word button on a thesaurus or dictionary website? Then try to figure out how to string them together into a poem/outline/sentence.

After you've done that rewrite it without the mandate to include the words specifically and see what you get.

>>80883606
This is terrible. Why are prologues bad? Accents could be overused, but they can also be used to help differentiate characters from one another. Overusing 'said' just makes dialogue more boring. And being detailed with characters or locations is just fine.

>>80884471
>Why are prologues bad?
Anything you can put into a prologue you can put into the regular narrative.
>Accents could be overused, but they can also be used to help differentiate characters from one another.
It’s annoying to read and it’s a crutch. Nothing’s worse than an author who spells out all the characters’ accents.
>Overusing 'said' just makes dialogue more boring.
Ideally you wouldn’t even use “said” unless you had to. Do you want people to experience the story or to experience the storyteller? I know I’d want the former, especially when it’s written from some anon I couldn’t tell from Adam.
>And being detailed with characters or locations is just fine.
To a point, but if you go on and on then the reader’s eye starts to wonder. “Man, I need to groceries,” “did I pay that gas bill?” “I wonder what’s on youtube…” Don’t let the reader think about that stuff when he’s reading your shit.

>>80884471
>Overusing 'said' just makes dialogue more boring.
Do you think using a whole different dialogue tag EVERY TIME is "interesting" or "better"? Because the whole point of using "said" as a dialogue tag is that it's unobtrusive as a dialogue tag. It's when you need a specific tag - "shouted", "whispered" - to get across a specific tone of voice or mood that you use other tags. And you don't even need to use dialogue tags all the time. If you're doing back and forth dialogue between two characters and you establish who's speaking first and second, you can skip dialogue tags for most of the conversation. And if you think the page looks empty without some sort of prose after the dialogue, that's where you can put some sort of action after the dialogue to indicate the characters aren't standing around. Let me give you a few shitty examples off the top of my head.

>"I hate sand," Anakin said.
Fine enough. Utilitarian, really - gets the job done, but won't set the world on fire.

>"I hate sand," Anakin grumbled.
This is better because it gets across the idea that Anakin is saying it with some sort of feeling/emotion rather than just blandly stating a fact.

>"I hate sand." Anakin bent the stem of the flower until it snapped.
Here, you can see Anakin's emotion as an action - snapping the flower's stem - which gets across his anger and fleshes out his character as someone who might use violence when he's angry.

The one you'll want to avoid is this:
>"I hate sand," Anakin said angrily.
That shit will get you a note from your editor, and for good reason: The adverb ("angrily") is unnecessary. You can either cut the adverb, use a more specific word than "said", or cut the tag altogether and go with a description of some sort of action. Point is, adverbs are a crutch and a tool of last resort. Use them when no other word will work.

You can't overuse "said" as a dialogue tag unless you use it after EVERY line of dialogue, and you shouldn't be doing that anyway.

>>80889100
>Anything you can put into a prologue you can put into the regular narrative.
Disagree there.

I'm reminded of the prologue in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire for instance. It shows us where Voldemorts base of operations is, what he's up to, and it shows us a muggle perspective on the events, and backstory on the Riddle family. The story is otherwise entirely on Harry Potter's perspective who is busy at school not realizing the level of stakes in the story he's in, and doesn't have time to stop to look up all this stuff. That always stood out to me as a very effective prologue because it does a great job of hooking the reader and setting up the climax.

>It’s annoying to read and it’s a crutch. Nothing’s worse than an author who spells out all the characters’ accents.
If it's done badly yes. But it's a tool in the toolbox that's stupid to leave to the side. Accents exist, and most of the world doesn't speak with a trans-atlantic dialect.

>Ideally you wouldn’t even use “said” unless you had to. Do you want people to experience the story or to experience the storyteller? I know I’d want the former, especially when it’s written from some anon I couldn’t tell from Adam.
You need to tell the audience who is speaking, and words alone can't always communicate tone and volume. For instance there's a bit difference between-

>"You can't do that." Alice stated harshly.
And.
>"You can't do that." Alice mumbled quietly.
(cont.)

>>80890655
>To a point, but if you go on and on then the reader’s eye starts to wonder. “Man, I need to groceries,” “did I pay that gas bill?” “I wonder what’s on youtube…” Don’t let the reader think about that stuff when he’s reading your shit.
There's a balance to be sure, but that's now what the image says. I'd say it's more important to ask yourself what is important to communicate to the viewer. Does the imagery convey purely visual information? Story information? Thematic information? A good periodic splash of imagery is good for building the world of the story in the readers head.
>>80890655
>Do you think using a whole different dialogue tag EVERY TIME is "interesting" or "better"? Because the whole point of using "said" as a dialogue tag is that it's unobtrusive as a dialogue tag. It's when you need a specific tag - "shouted", "whispered" - to get across a specific tone of voice or mood that you use other tags. And you don't even need to use dialogue tags all the time. If you're doing back and forth dialogue between two characters and you establish who's speaking first and second, you can skip dialogue tags for most of the conversation. And if you think the page looks empty without some sort of prose after the dialogue, that's where you can put some sort of action after the dialogue to indicate the characters aren't standing around. Let me give you a few shitty examples off the top of my head.
Sure. That's not what the image says.

>That shit will get you a note from your editor, and for good reason: The adverb ("angrily") is unnecessary. You can either cut the adverb, use a more specific word than "said", or cut the tag altogether and go with a description of some sort of action. Point is, adverbs are a crutch and a tool of last resort. Use them when no other word will work.
I think on this point I see what you mean.

>>80891299
>That's not what the image says.
And that's why you can ignore that bit of advice - to a point. "Said" is an "invisible" word, a bit of scaffolding that helps build the prose without losing a reader's immersion.

If you were telling a story out loud about a conversation between you and a friend, you'd probably be like "so I said (x) and he said (y)" every once in a while instead of going "so I whispered (x) and he muttered (y)" when talking about what the two of you said. And guess what? Most people listening would ignore the "said" part and actually listen to the "dialogue". In writing, "said" works the exact same way: It's a signpost and nothing more, meant only to point at who's saying a given line of dialogue. You can use other words or a description of action if you feel you've overused "said" (which is hard to do unless you're using it after every line of dialogue).

Despite this being a generality, "said" will be the dialogue tag you use the most because its only real purpose in writing is to be a bit of scaffolding. Stronger verbs and action descriptions are useful, but only in smaller doses, lest they bog down the prose. You really can't "overuse" said, but anyone who says "stick to using 'said' exclusively" is giving you bullshit advice.

>>80891299
The image (a brief summary of Elmore Leonard's 10 rules for writing, available with more detail at https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/feb/24/elmore-leonard-rules-for-writers ) says "Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue." "Carry" is the important part here, used in the sense of being responsible for something's success. The speech itself should be strong enough to carry the dialogue without needing a fancy dialogue tag. If you need a "stated harshly" or "mumbled quietly" you already fucked up. I'd reminded of the time you tried to "improve" Terry Pratchett's writing by changing the dialogue tags. No professional author will agree with you here.

>>80891545
>I'd reminded of the time you tried to "improve" Terry Pratchett's writing
HOLY FUCKING SHIT, WHAT

>>80891611
It's in the archives somewhere from last time we had this discussion.

>>80891541
I think you're ignoring an important factor- the voice of the narrator. How the information is conveyed is just as important as the information being conveyed. It informs the tone.

For instance- yes a conversation between two friends who aren't particularly literarily minded would probably use a lot of 'saids' unless you want to characterize one as having a large vocabulary.

But if you want say something that has a less casual tone? A more poetic tone trying to evoke something like the tone of a Shakespeare plain? Then a lot of fanciful words that might not otherwise use could be implemented there. Depends on what headspace you want the reader to be in.

For instance I use a lot of 'script dialogue' when writing my main stories, but that's cause I want an emphasis on quick snappy comedic dialogue in those stories. I also use a lot of images to carry a lot of heavy-lifting that descriptive dialogue might otherwise use. But just cause that's efficient doesn't mean it's an approach I should use for everything. For my other stories I use much more traditional formats because I don't want the same feeling of very quick dialogue. It's very different authorial voices.
>>80891611
>>80891699
I recall nobody else agreeing to that characterization.

>>80892403
>But if you want say something that has a less casual tone? A more poetic tone trying to evoke something like the tone of a Shakespeare plain? Then a lot of fanciful words that might not otherwise use could be implemented there. Depends on what headspace you want the reader to be in.
And you'll probably still end up using "said" more often than any other verbal dialogue tag because "said" is, in fact, scaffolding that most readers glide over or barely notice. It's the "fancy" verbs that end up breaking immersion, at least when you use them more often than "said". One non-"said" verb every few paragraphs is fine; thinking you need one for every other line of dialogue to "balance" out the use of "said" is idiocy.

>I recall nobody else agreeing to that characterization.
What, that you thought you could improve the writing of an actual fucking legend by slapping a bunch of unnecessary verbs into places they weren't intended to be placed?

>>80892490
I never said that 'said' should be the least used dialogue tag.

This is one of those internet things. You say 'I like pancakes' and then everyone assumes you mean 'I hate waffles'. It's baffling.

>What, that you thought you could improve the writing of an actual fucking legend by slapping a bunch of unnecessary verbs into places they weren't intended to be placed?
Case in point.

>>80892557
>I never said that 'said' should be the least used dialogue tag.
I do seem to recall you having a massive bug up your ass about "said", though. Thought it needed be used "less", or at least equally as much as other verbal dialogue tags, despite multiple people telling you that "said" is a dialogue tag that doesn't actually destroy immersion or whatever grand evil you think it does when it's used "too much".

>>80892557
>Case in point
okay but you did try to change his prose with the intent of proving your point, didn't you

>>80892604
I think you're confusing my stubbornness for vitriol.

Said's perfectly fine. It should even be used most of the time, it should be the default. I just don't think it's innately superior in all circumstances when there are so many ways in the English language to convey the way someone spoke.

Hell- I'll throw this one out there. As a juvenile joke I named one of my characters in World's Strongest C-Class! Dick. Communicates to the audience that he's not a pleasant person. It's blunt, but I'm not writing Shakespeare. Of course I also know that an archaic way to describe someone shouting across the room is the word 'Ejaculate'. So I figured it would be stupid and funny to occasionally pepper in the phrase 'Dick ejaculated'. COULD I have used the word said? Yes. Would it have been as stupid and funny? No. Would it have been more interesting and memorable if I'd used the word said? No.

What I don't get is why people get offended that I refuse to back down on things. Like my opinion is all that important to them. It's like people expect that if they pressure you on a topic enough you are supposed to back down and it's rude and personally insulting when you don't. But like I said, I find arguing about stuff to be weird. When everyone else wants to avoid actively hashing anything out.

>>80892634
Yes. Though this wasn't as was characterized 'thinking I'm better than Terry Pratchet' or 'thinking he's bad at writing' or whatever else I've been tried to be painted as. Personally I haven't really read anything of Terry Pratchet's works so I have no real opinion on him. From what I've heard he's a really good writer, but not an unassailable one. Like- I don't think it's heresy to criticize William Shakespeare, who I have read.

But I don't think a single authors opinions covers all possible writing circumstances. By definition. There are SO many ways to write. If we all wrote he same way it'd be boring. Writing is about expression and creativity. There are certainly stylistic choices that might attract an audience better or worse, writing in Binary probably won't attract a lot of readers, but that doesn't mean there's no room to move about.

Again this is very much a 'I like pancakes'/'bro what the FUCK do you have against waffles' situation.

>>80892691
>I figured it would be stupid and funny to occasionally pepper in the phrase 'Dick ejaculated'. COULD I have used the word said? Yes. Would it have been as stupid and funny? No. Would it have been more interesting and memorable if I'd used the word said? No.
And it's cute once, maybe twice if you space it out quite a bit. But any joke gets old when you tell it over and over again. Using a cutesy dialogue tag in the context you describe is fine when it's rare; when it's something you do every other time the character talks, it takes all the punch out of the punchline.

>What I don't get is why people get offended that I refuse to back down on things.
Nobody cares that you're a stubborn asshole. So am I. We care that you seem to think "you need to use verbs other than 'said' far more often to balance things out" is A GOOD IDEA when it is almost always A VERY FUCKING BAD IDEA. "Said" is like a breeze you barely notice; any other word is a strong gust of wind. Hit the audience with gusts one time too many and they're going to stop and wonder why it's so fucking wimdy (i.e., why you keep unnecessarily using other verbs besides "said").

>>80892798
>There are SO many ways to write.
And you're choosing an objectively shitty way to write. This argument isn't even about using other verbs instead of "said" - that's fine, really! It's about overusing those verbs as some kind of fucked-up "counterbalance" to overusing "said" as if that were even possible without using "said" after every line of dialogue.

>>80892890
>And it's cute once, maybe twice if you space it out quite a bit. But any joke gets old when you tell it over and over again. Using a cutesy dialogue tag in the context you describe is fine when it's rare; when it's something you do every other time the character talks, it takes all the punch out of the punchline.
Yes. All things I haven't been arguing against.
>Nobody cares that you're a stubborn asshole. So am I. We care that you seem to think "you need to use verbs other than 'said' far more often to balance things out" is A GOOD IDEA when it is almost always A VERY FUCKING BAD IDEA. "Said" is like a breeze you barely notice; any other word is a strong gust of wind. Hit the audience with gusts one time too many and they're going to stop and wonder why it's so fucking wimdy (i.e., why you keep unnecessarily using other verbs besides "said").
And not caring about my opinion on the matter isn't an option?

>And you're choosing an objectively shitty way to write. This argument isn't even about using other verbs instead of "said" - that's fine, really! It's about overusing those verbs as some kind of fucked-up "counterbalance" to overusing "said" as if that were even possible without using "said" after every line of dialogue.
Can you quote the part of the discussion where I said that the writer should overuse words?

>>80892973
>And not caring about my opinion on the matter isn't an option?
When you're trying to give out writing advice and you're saying shit that is objectively terrible advice? Nah, I'll care.

>Can you quote the part of the discussion where I said that the writer should overuse words?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time you got a thread-long bug up your ass about "said", didn't you keep complaining about how it needed to be balanced out by other verbal dialogue tags because people might get annoyed or have their immersion broken by "said"?

>>80893037
Yes.

But that's not relevant to the question, when did I say that writers should overuse words? Because 'balanced' and 'overused' are very different words with opposite meanings.

>>80893241
>when did I say that writers should overuse words?
When you suggested that the use of "said" needs to be "balanced" with the use of other verbal dialogue tags. It doesn't. If you're using an alternative dialogue tag for every one or two uses of "said", you're overusing those alternative tags for the sake of some unnecessary "balance". I promise you that if you go pick up a book right now and you count up the dialogue tags, you'll probably see that the use of "said" far outstrips the combined use of all other alternative dialogue tags. The whole point is that the alternatives should be used only when necessary, not out of some fealty to a shitty idea about "balance".

>>80893302
>When you suggested that the use of "said" needs to be "balanced" with the use of other verbal dialogue tags. It doesn't. If you're using an alternative dialogue tag for every one or two uses of "said", you're overusing those alternative tags for the sake of some unnecessary "balance". I promise you that if you go pick up a book right now and you count up the dialogue tags, you'll probably see that the use of "said" far outstrips the combined use of all other alternative dialogue tags. The whole point is that the alternatives should be used only when necessary, not out of some fealty to a shitty idea about "balance".
>I like pancakes.
>What's your problem with Waffles?

I never said that it should be for every 'one or two saids'. And I don't know why your mind conjured that up.

Honestly I'd ballpark it at more like 50% saids, and similar words, with the other half being other kinds of words. Not counting instances of course where you don't need dialogue tags.

How about this- before you respond to anything I say in the future, can you reread my words, only their literal context, and makes sure you're only arguing against things I'm actually saying instead of things that I'm not? I'm very specific and literal with my words.

>>80893410
To rephrase myself, because I can see how what I said might be interpreted differently- when I say '50%' I'm not saying it should be 1 said = 1 other word, just that about half the time you are writing you shouldn't use too many frills when trying to describe the dialogue, and then there should be another half where you try to make the expression more lively.

I should also state- because apparently I have to, this is just my personal opinion and personal approach. And given I believe in freedom of thought, people are allowed to use their own approaches different than mine.

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>>80893302
Fuck it, doing it myself.

I picked up my copy of "Night Watch" by Terry Pratchett (the Harper Fiction paperback; image related) and opened it to page 181 at random. That page contains 12 full paragraphs and one partial paragraph. 11 of the full paragraphs start with dialogue; of those, 5 have no dialogue tags, 5 use "said", and one uses the tag "went on" after the character's name.

Which is why shit like this—
>>80893410
>Honestly I'd ballpark it at more like 50% saids, and similar words, with the other half being other kinds of words. Not counting instances of course where you don't need dialogue tags.
—is such shitty advice: If Terry Motherfucking Pratchett didn't need to balance out nearly an entire page of dialogue with an even mix of "said" and other verbs as dialogue tags, NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE.

>>80893459
>when I say '50%' I'm not saying it should be 1 said = 1 other word, just that about half the time you are writing you shouldn't use too many frills when trying to describe the dialogue
That's the whole fucking point of "said" as a dialogue tag, and last time you got into this shit, you seemed to think it was The Worst Fucking Word Ever because it was "overused" as a dialogue tag.

>there should be another half where you try to make the expression more lively
See, that sounds to me like "1 said = 1 other word". You're not doing a good job of acquitting yourself here. Digging up isn't the best idea; neither is using alternative dialogue tags "half the time" for some stupid idea about "balancing out" the use of "said". As I pointed out, Terry Pratchett - whose work is generally held in high regard - didn't pull that kind of shit. If he didn't need to do that shit to become a bestselling author, neither does anyone else, including you.

Here's a suggestion: Count up how many dialogue tags you used in your most recent piece of writing. If "said" is "balanced" 50/50 with all other tags combined, maybe consider using "said" more - 60/40 at least.

>>80893661
>Not counting instances of course where you don't need dialogue tags.
Didn't do your reading did you.

>As I pointed out, Terry Pratchett -
Dude I care about as much about Terry Pratchett as I do William Shakespeare or Edgar Allen Poe. They're good writers. They've got their own voice. But I don't think every story on earth should be exclusively written by them. It's not like he wrote the book on writing. Plenty of people have written plenty of books on writing. None of which describe the only way to write. Move on from the point.
Okay, here's the last thing I wrote-
>https://www.deviantart.com/samaster/art/Pink-Bloodmoon-Day-1-Pt-1-1267103838
26 uses of the word said. Out of roughly 118 paragraphs of dialogue. Most of the uses of the word said are in the back-half of the chapter, which looking back I wish I could remedy, especially as there's a couple of back to back uses of it. The main issue is neither character is particularly emotive or eloquent, and it's meant to be a bit of an awkward conversation. So I don't see how I could make it more lively without detracting from the intention.

Outside of that, plenty of 'asked', 'told', 'muttered', some instances of things like 'said darkly'. Definitely not a 1-1 ratio though, maybe a 2-1 ratio at most.

I think the majority of lines don't have dialogue tags though, part of that is the beginning though when I'm trying to simulate a room of anonymous gossip.

You read it, you tell me if you think it's better than Terry Pratchett or not. Give me a scathing review while you're at it.

>>80893965
>I don't think every story on earth should be exclusively written by them.
Neither do I. My point is that an author as successful and well-regarded as Pratchett still "overused" the word "said" as a dialogue tag, according to the "half and half" heuristic you yourself provided, and didn't catch any real shit for it from readers or critics. If he didn't need to pull that "balance out 'said' with other verbs" shit to be a good writer, neither do you.

>You read it, you tell me if you think it's better than Terry Pratchett or not.
I don't need to read it to tell you if you're better than Pratchett; if you're posting your shit on DeviantArt and asking for critique on 4chan, I KNOW you're not better than Pratchett. That said, I'll give it a look. Gimme a few minutes.

>>80894246
You know, if he wasn't dead, I'd suspect YOU were Terry Pratchett for how personal you're taking all this.

>>80893965
>>80894246
Okay, first things first: You're not a bad writer. Like, I'm not turning away from it in disgust or ready to rip you a new asshole for being a step above AI writing or whatever. Your writing is...well, I don't want to say "great" and glaze you in a complete 180 of all the shit I've been flinging your way. But it's decent enough that I don't have a hard time reading it.

If you'll allow me a bit of proofreading/editorial pedantry here:
>"Did you see the silks of the Eastern Delegation?" One asked the other.
>...
>"Because it's very pretty." She told her. "And from very far away."
For the record, the way you're using dialogue tags here doesn't comport with the well-established standards of English-based writing. They should look more like this:
>"Did you see the silks of the Eastern Delegation?" one asked the other.
>...
>"Because it's very pretty," she told her. "And from very far away."

Similarly:
>"What I'm wondering-" Clara piped up. "Is why they'd bother coming all the way over here to Craiova." She asked. "I mean- why not the markets in Lepanto? Or the Armories of Grahman? Or the cathedrals of Achaea if they've made the journey all the way here."
The "she asked" in the middle of the dialogue is distracting, mostly because it comes before a question instead of after. For better flow, I'd cut that tag out completely:
>"What I'm wondering," Clara piped up, "is why they'd bother coming all the way over here to Craiova. Why not the markets in Lepanto, or the armories of Grahman? Even the cathedrals of Achaea, if they've made the journey all the way here."
This is just me being a pedantic bitch, and I'm not done reading, I just wanted to get this into a post while it's fresh in my head. More to come as I read further.

>>80894447
Ah, HERE is what I'm getting at with the "overusing alternative dialogue tags" thing:
>"Just cause they've fended off hordes of orcs with their magic or fancy swords or what not, doesn't mean they want to fight that many more once they've reached the Empire's borders." One of the maids reasoned. "The Long Wall is a safe route for them futher inland. I bet they're just being polite for our Count showing up to his party."
>"More than that-" One of them reasoned. "I'm betting they'll want to head home one day. And when that happens, they'll have to make a return trip."
If "reasoned" had only appeared once in these two paragraphs, it wouldn't be so noticeable and jarring. Spreading out their use so the second one comes much later in the part/chapter/whatever than the first would've been a better decision. But your use of "reasoned" in back-to-back paragraphs, with almost the exact same contextual usage, is jarring and immersion-breaking. It's NOTICEABLE. And when it comes to dialogue tags, you shouldn't want them to be noticeable unless you have a specific intent behind that usage.

Also an issue: using "one of the maids/them" as the dialogue tag in both paragraphs. That, too, is noticeable in a bad way. If not for the change in paragraphs, it would be entirely possible to think the same maid was still speaking, possibly to herself. Find a way to differentiate speakers there; either don't use a dialogue tag in the second paragraph or just give the two maids some rando names that won't ever come up again.

>"She was talking to one of them!" She stated.
Oof. If you're going to use an exclamation mark and a non-"said" dialogue tag, at least use one that fits the intended tone of the speech. Maybe not "shouted", but "exclaimed" or "proclaimed" would work. In this context, "stated" is a hella weak verb.

More to come.

>>80894447
Everything I recall reading has a capitalization at the end of dialogue. It's treated as a new sentence, unless you are informally quoting it. The other way to me looks more sloppy.

Actually flow is why I put that there- I wanted a gap between the three thoughts. Maybe 'she asked' is a bit of a boring way to do it, but I want to draw out the thought.
>>80894594
You're right that I shouldn't have used them back to back, that's something I should have caught and varied up more. That's just a mistake on my part.

You're also right that I should vary things up a bit to make the speakers slightly more distinct. Though- the only word I can think to substitute would be 'continued' which would just further imply it's the same speaker. I don't want to use said though, cause I want to insinuate that the conversation is picking up in pace, it's moving away from casual dispassionate conversation as they engage in the gossip.

I think stated still works. She's raising her volume to be heard, but she's not being overly emotional about it. Shouted would imply she cares more about the subject than she does. I could write 'stated with emphasis' but that would be defeating the point.

>>80894594
>She figured she'd work her way up the castle, so on her return she could take her time walking back down.
Not a fan of this specific line; the paragraph it's in would flow a little smoother without it. Feels too on-the-nose, too "in her head" for my taste.

>Captain Clive could be found in the gatehouse to the Middle Keep.
This line feels off as well; it reads more like it belongs in a TWINE game written in second-person rather than a story written in third-person. "Captain Clive was stationed at the gatehouse to the Middle Keep" would flow better, though I'm not sure I'd keep the line even with that change.

>She had quite striking features, namely her amber eyes which held a lot of intensity, and her silvery hair that was reflecting some of the evening light that was making it into the canyon.
And this sounds like a bad fanfic. I'd take out the "she had quite striking features" bit and describe her eyes and hair a little differently:
>Her eyes, amber in color, held a quiet intensity, and her dark silver hair reflected some of the evening light that had shone into the canyon.
(You can replace "intensity, and her" with "intensity; her" and still have it work.)

>"Oh." Friday said plainly.
NO. BAD MONKEY. NO BANANA. Remove the "plainly" and try to find a better verb or describe an action that demonstrates her reaction (e.g., looking down at the ground); only put "plainly" back in if you can't find a better alternative to using it.

Also, a general criticism: If you have two characters talking and it's clear they're the only two talking, you can do without so many dialogue tags. Use them sparingly and see if you can use prose describing actions instead to indicate momentum (if the characters are walking/travelling) or movement (if they're staying in one place while talking).

I'll let you check this post, then get back to your replies. But in general, I'd say you're a decent writer.

>>80894830
I figured I didn't have much else to do at that point but get into the characters head. Try to get across to the reader this ground-level view of the setting, not as like a high-fantasy tourist destination, but as a location someone has to live in and work in day-to-day, filled with trivial decisions like how to go about a chore.

>This line feels off as well; it reads more like it belongs in a TWINE game written in second-person rather than a story written in third-person. "Captain Clive was stationed at the gatehouse to the Middle Keep" would flow better, though I'm not sure I'd keep the line even with that change.
You might be right, but I don't think the character (and the narrator trying to put the audience in her headspace) would phrase it that way like it's a military position. I was thinking of it as the person is a location she needs to get to while hopefully finding entertainment in the meantime.

>And this sounds like a bad fanfic. I'd take out the "she had quite striking features" bit and describe her eyes and hair a little differently:
No, I'll defend this. I wanted to point out that this anime girl in the portrait, which to the audience is a very average anime girl, is an unusual sight that someone in this world doesn't see every day- that she sticks out quite a lot. Not to a suspicious degree, but to a point the maid is interested in what her deal is.

>(You can replace "intensity, and her" with "intensity; her" and still have it work.)
I'm not opposed to using a ; but I've felt like it's better for trying to string together two disconnected but related thoughts. Granted- I never had that character actually covered in English. Certainly I could have spiced up the imagery, but the audience saw what she looked like, and I just wanted to get across that to the maid she finds those features noteworthy.

>>80894830
>NO. BAD MONKEY. NO BANANA. Remove the "plainly" and try to find a better verb or describe an action that demonstrates her reaction (e.g., looking down at the ground); only put "plainly" back in if you can't find a better alternative to using it.
No, I'll defend this one too. She's meant to have a boring personality. She's non-reactive. Not shy- which say 'looking down on the ground' would imply. She's cagey, but that's not really the problem Clara has with her, so much as Friday doesn't really engage with her all that much. It's a boring sentence to reflect a boring personality.

>Also, a general criticism: If you have two characters talking and it's clear they're the only two talking, you can do without so many dialogue tags. Use them sparingly and see if you can use prose describing actions instead to indicate momentum (if the characters are walking/travelling) or movement (if they're staying in one place while talking).
Yeah I certainly can, and often have, but well-

>>80894722
>Everything I recall reading has a capitalization at the end of dialogue.
I've been reading books for more than 30 years, and in every book I've ever read, formatting for dialogue goes like this:
>"This is a line of dialogue," he said.
>"And this is my line." He pointed at himself.
If you're using a proper name in place of a general noun or pronoun, obviously you can capitalize that. But in all the books I've ever read, that is how dialogue and any text following it has been formatted. Maybe some much, much older books did it differently. But I've never read any modern-ish book to my knowledge that ever formatted dialogue any other way than that.

>flow is why I put that there- I wanted a gap between the three thoughts.
Consider describing an action she's doing while she's talking, then. The dialogue tag hurts the flow because it splits up the dialogue twice, especially with such a long bit after the second "pause". Think about trying something like this:
>"What I'm wondering," Clara piped up, "is why they'd bother coming all the way over here to Craiova." She leaned against [whatever you want her to lean against] and motioned with her hands as she continued, "Why not the markets in Lepanto, or the armories of Grahman? Even the cathedrals of Achaea, if they've made the journey all the way here."
With that bit of prose between the second and third bit of dialogue, you get the idea that Clara is someone who "talks" with her hands (i.e., moves her hands while she's talking) and acts casually during a conversation instead of someone who just stands still and has their arms crossed or whatever. It also flows better because of the length of the sentence with the action prose; the shorter dialogue tag felt out of place there.

More coming, please wait until I'm done before replying.

>>80894960

What I find quite interesting about conversations are the things that aren't said out loud. Probably because I'm autistic and I've had to spend a lot of time and energy figuring out what people mean besides the literal words of what they've said. I'm very bad at reading faces. Now- in my main stories I intentionally leave these parts out. In the 'Fate of Beck' stories I feel I can usually carry across the unspoken parts through the choreography of the characters in the scene. But at the same time most of my characters have an aspect of their personality they aren't broadcasting to everyone, and I want to invite the audience in to think about what they are saying vs. what they aren't (for instance- Beck clearly has a lot of hangups about his parents divorce, but refuses to talk about it, which I want to invite the audience to speculate what he's thinking about internally- same as Lucy does). While in the Cursed Clussy Carnival, I want to invite people to not take things at face value like the main character Cal is. He sees what everyone presents at face value, but he feels in he's in a hostile environment and has to wonder to himself what lies beneath the surface. And to try to put the audience in the same headspace I don't write out a lot of things that might hint at what's going on under that surface.

Here I have the opposite approach- maybe because I won't be focusing on the same characters for as long- or maybe because they are different kinds of characters. Here I want to delve more into what the characters are thinking and acting, so I'm using the space in the dialogue to try to characterize them more.

>>80895072
Continued~

>>80894722
>I should vary things up a bit to make the speakers slightly more distinct. Though- the only word I can think to substitute would be 'continued' which would just further imply it's the same speaker.
It's less about the verb you use and more about making the speakers distinct. If you have to give the maids names to keep them distinct, give them names. Nobody said they had to be major characters just because they have names or a few lines. But if they're doing the same work/in the same profession, they need to be distinct from one another in some way. Names are one way; hair color, hair length, or skin color are others.

>I don't want to use said though, cause I want to insinuate that the conversation is picking up in pace
I get that, but using alternative dialogue tags to the point where it looks like you're reaching for a thesaurus every time you write a line of dialogue doesn't do you any favors. An easier way to show that momentum is show the maids slowing down on their work as they talk - that way, you get the idea that the gossip is so juicy that the maids can't help but stop working so they can, colloquially speaking, spill some tea.

>I think stated still works. She's raising her volume to be heard, but she's not being overly emotional about it.
Then "exclaimed" is a better word. "Stated" comes off as her rattling off a fact like she's reading from a report or something.
>"The weather looks nice," she stated.
>"The weather looks nice!" she exclaimed.
See the difference?

>>80894960
>I don't think the character (and the narrator trying to put the audience in her headspace) would phrase it that way like it's a military position.
That's fair, but the original line feels off because of the phrasing - "could be found" reads like it's a character being told that information; to have it be expository prose instead of expository dialogue feels off-putting and breaks immersion.

More to come, hold please~

>>80895224
Continued~

>>80894960
>I wanted to point out that this anime girl in the portrait, which to the audience is a very average anime girl, is an unusual sight that someone in this world doesn't see every day- that she sticks out quite a lot.
Also fair. But the "she had quite striking features" thing is an example of "telling" that feels way too on the nose. It's telling the audience how to feel about the character rather than showing the audience what makes the character different from others. Is her eye or hair color unusual? What is it about her that sets her apart, and how can you describe that without outright telling the audience "she's just so different"?

>Certainly I could have spiced up the imagery, but the audience saw what she looked like
You have to write as if your audience can't see the image. Fanfics get away with skimping on character descriptions because people know the characters and it's easy to picture them already. Even if you have an image of your character included, maybe the image breaks one day and it's no longer available. Hell, maybe you've got a reader who's blind and can't see the image. Consider trying to find a way to describe your character as if the image you included doesn't actually exist. Don't go overboard with description - usually, two or three important details will work fine.

>>80895045
>She's meant to have a boring personality. She's non-reactive.
Then I suggest finding a way to get that across in either a bit of action prose (not "looked down", but maybe noting how her voice didn't change its affect to indicate emotion). Using an adverb (e.g., "plainly") with a dialogue tag is often considered a bad shortcut and the tool of a hack writer; it should be the absolute last resort when no other option will do.

More to come, hold please~

>>80895324
Continued, last part~

>>80895078
>What I find quite interesting about conversations are the things that aren't said out loud.
See, that's a GOOD THING! Subtext is really good for characterization. Not every conversation needs it, but when you can use it, it's incredibly helpful.

>I want to delve more into what the characters are thinking and acting, so I'm using the space in the dialogue to try to characterize them more.
Yeah, I can get that.

See, it's not really your approach to storytelling that's the issue. It's your prose. There's a fair bit you could tighten up to make the prose and dialogue flow better. I plugged that story into LibreOffice and it says it's about 3,800 words long. My guess is you could probably cut about 300 to 400 words out of the story, either by deletion or rephrasing, and still keep the same tenor of the story while making it a tighter, leaner read. I'll even give you a smaller challenge in that regard: The three opening paragraphs are a total of 314 words (according to LibreOffice). See if you can get that cut down by about ten percent, or to about 280 words (give or take a few). Look for places where you can cut words or phrases, or reword them in shorter ways, to tighten up the exposition. I bet you could do it if you put your mind to it.

okay I'm done you can bitch at me now~

>>80895072
>I've been reading books for more than 30 years, and in every book I've ever read, formatting for dialogue goes like this:
Haven't read a proper book in a while, but first book I read used both 'he' and 'His' after speech quotes, so that didn't help. Maybe it's different standards from other sides of the Atlantic? Then again I've been on both sides of the Atlantic.
>"This is a line of dialogue," he said.
>"And this is my line." He pointed at himself.
Okay that example is doubly confusing.
>With that bit of prose between the second and third bit of dialogue, you get the idea that Clara is someone who "talks" with her hands (i.e., moves her hands while she's talking) and acts casually during a conversation instead of someone who just stands still and has their arms crossed or whatever. It also flows better because of the length of the sentence with the action prose; the shorter dialogue tag felt out of place there.
You're right that something like that could help. Just in the specifics I'm imagining that she is neither focusing on the chores all that hard, not letting herself get distracted from the chores by the gossip that much. She's being quite absentminded. Something like a 'she paused to think' would work well, except she's not actually pausing to think more leaving a contemplative gap in her words.

>It's less about the verb you use and more about making the speakers distinct. If you have to give the maids names to keep them distinct, give them names. Nobody said they had to be major characters just because they have names or a few lines. But if they're doing the same work/in the same profession, they need to be distinct from one another in some way. Names are one way; hair color, hair length, or skin color are others.
Disagree. I want them to come across as a faceless mob. I just need to make sure the narration is distinct enough.

>>80895224
>"Stated" comes off as her rattling off a fact like she's reading from a report or something.
Yes that's the intent I was going for.

>That's fair, but the original line feels off because of the phrasing - "could be found" reads like it's a character being told that information; to have it be expository prose instead of expository dialogue feels off-putting and breaks immersion.
True.

>Also fair. But the "she had quite striking features" thing is an example of "telling" that feels way too on the nose. It's telling the audience how to feel about the character rather than showing the audience what makes the character different from others. Is her eye or hair color unusual? What is it about her that sets her apart, and how can you describe that without outright telling the audience "she's just so different"?
Problem being is that she's gonna disappear in the next scene. This is planting, and it won't become relevant until much later. So I had a brief encounter between two characters who aren't important yet, and this wasn't an are where I felt I needed subtltey- or rather, there's a lot of subtlety going on, but on that specific example, I didn't want to spend extra time doing a 'show don't tell' when it's not something we're gonna get to for a while.
>>80895324
>Hell, maybe you've got a reader who's blind and can't see the image.
I didn't know there were fantranslations for braile for 'shitty deviantart slop'.

Also weren't you defending the idea that too much imagery was bad earlier?

>Using an adverb (e.g., "plainly") with a dialogue tag is often considered a bad shortcut and the tool of a hack writer; it should be the absolute last resort when no other option will do.
Why though? That just feels like a trueism. It's true because it's true. It accomplished what I wanted to get across.

>>80895597
>used both 'he' and 'His' after speech quotes
The link to the explanation is in the opening post:
https://theeditorsblog.net/2010/12/08/punctuation-in-dialogue/

>>80895439
>See, it's not really your approach to storytelling that's the issue. It's your prose. There's a fair bit you could tighten up to make the prose and dialogue flow better. I plugged that story into LibreOffice and it says it's about 3,800 words long. My guess is you could probably cut about 300 to 400 words out of the story, either by deletion or rephrasing, and still keep the same tenor of the story while making it a tighter, leaner read. I'll even give you a smaller challenge in that regard: The three opening paragraphs are a total of 314 words (according to LibreOffice). See if you can get that cut down by about ten percent, or to about 280 words (give or take a few). Look for places where you can cut words or phrases, or reword them in shorter ways, to tighten up the exposition. I bet you could do it if you put your mind to it.

I don't know, I think it lacked enough meat on the bone to begin with. I don't think writing is about just cutting and cutting to make it as lean as possible with as short a word count. It's nice to meander at times. Good even, sometimes, to put yourself in the space of the story, or the emotional space, or even just show the characters idle. Something I like in my other stories is having the characters have 'conversations about nothing' because they're fun to write and help characterize them. A film example would be the main characters of Pulp Fiction talking about cheeseburgers in the first scene. It doesn't advance the plot, or explain anything about the world. It doesn't even really give important characterization information about the two characters, other than they are on downtime talking about shit to pass the time and it humanizes them. Personally I think a 'race to efficiency' is something that takes a lot of human elements out.
(cont.)

Like you know how they say that to portray styles from the past you replicate its mistakes? If you want to do a scene that feels like it's in a 1950's sitcom you'd put it in black and white and use a laugh-track (like WandaVision did). It adds texture to things. Or in internet parlance, 'soul'.

Now of course my goal for when I was writing this was try to put the reader in this space of a fantasy world- one that has several classic elements (dwarves and elves) but that I try to put in a more grounded light through the perspective (a maid) and one where there are important things happening around them (the ball, and the intrigue there) while also showing that despite that this is a seemingly normal day (the maid is interested in the goings ons, not because she understands their ramifications, but because it breaks up an otherwise dull routine). All that's intended to be a way to introduce the audience to the world, without writing a medieval fantasy manifesto that they have to go through first before they can enjoy the setting. I'm largely planning a pretty typical adventure story with a dash of sex and horror, but I want it to feel like there are weighty things happening, without making the audience feel like they are reading a textbook.

So to that end, I was trying to find ways to keep things a bit breezy while also trying to find ways to throw in worldbuilding. To that end, I feel like there's a lot more imagery I probably could have thrown in to try to characterize the world. I think I felt though that would have mostly conflicted with the rest of the tone. It's a nut I'm trying to crack essentially to find more to talk about, and not have things happen immediately one after another.

>>80895597
>I want them to come across as a faceless mob. I just need to make sure the narration is distinct enough.
Pretty much, yeah. Make their style of speaking a little more distinct than Clara's - have the other maids talk more like the upper class/nobility and Clara talk more like the lower class, maybe. The difference in character voice will help set them apart.

>>80895675
>I didn't want to spend extra time doing a 'show don't tell' when it's not something we're gonna get to for a while.
I'd suggest rethinking that approach. If you're foreshadowing something for later, show people the gun on the mantle (to use the Chekov's Gun metaphor) and make them wonder what makes it so goddamn important that you'd point it out like that.

>I didn't know there were fantranslations for braile for 'shitty deviantart slop'.
Look up screenreader software, my dude.

>weren't you defending the idea that too much imagery was bad earlier?
Too much imagery and not enough imagery are ends on the same horseshoe; finding a happy medium between the two is the ideal, even if it's not perfectly in the middle of the horseshoe. The risk of going too far with imagery lies in losing the reader's attention or leaning into purple prose. The risk of doing too little lies in making your prose sound like a kid's storybook.

>Why though? That just feels like a trueism.
The problem isn't with using adjectives and adverbs, but rather with using them so much - whether to indicate emotion or find "unique" ways of using or avoiding "said" - that they become a crutch. It's also a bad form of "telling" when used in place of decent narration. Example:
>She was very pretty.
Okay, the point is made, but so what? What are we supposed to feel from that? But if it's phrased like this:
>When she walked by married men, they turned their heads to stare, only to be smacked upside their heads by their wives.
Maybe she's a seductress. Maybe she's just super hot. But it's the image it makes that sticks.

(cont.)