>Perhaps the most insightful revelation in the interview came when Tolkien was discussing Gollum, the spiteful troglodyte played by Andy Serkis in Peter Jackson's films of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. The author described the character as "an example of corruption", and lit up when asked about a key scene in The Lord of the Rings: Gollum is with the novel's hero, Frodo, and almost reforms.>"The incident he's talking about is when Gollum is actually beginning to change back to Sméagol [his earlier, less monstrous self]," said Stuart Lee, a Professor of English at the University of Oxford, in a 2019 radio programme about the lost Tolkien recordings. "He's winning the battle – the good side is winning through and he tries to stroke Frodo, who's asleep." But then Frodo's best friend Sam intervenes…>"People have often asked me what moves me most," said Tolkien. "I think the most tragic point in the whole story is the terrible irony that good often does evil. The most tragic moment is when Sam in his protectiveness says, 'Take your hands off.' And therefore defeats Gollum's repentance. Because that seems to be very true to life."
>>223325055little gay fat hobbit ruined everything
>>223325785I don't give a fuck about your shit board.
He was a fag, Tolkien?
>>223326251How the fuck is second breakfast gay?
>>223325055Chuds always praise LOTR for being a simple black and white story of good vs. evil, with no moral grayness or complexity.JRR Tolkien has spoken out against the Chud reading of his work, emphasizing that moral complexity and its tragic consequences are the most moving part of the story for him. Referring to the claim that the matter of good and evil is rather simple in LOTR he stated:>"But of course, as a matter of fact it isn't really, is it? You see evil on the good side. It isn't just blacks against whites, or the goodies against baddies, as they call it modern parlance.">"People have often asked me what moves me most. I think the most tragic point in the whole story is the terrible irony that good often does evil. The most tragic moment is when Sam in his protectiveness says, 'Take your hands off.' And therefore defeats Gollum's repentance. Because that seems to be very true to life."Tolkien's statements have reportedly left chuds in absolute shambles, endlessly spamming 'evil can never create' memes and claiming that 'if Tolkien lived in the modern UK, he would be a nazi with a simplistic worldview centered on hatred and resentment, just like me!'
>But seriously, I do find this Americo-cosmpolitanism very terrifying. Qua mind and spirit, and neglecting the piddling fears of the timid flesh which does not want to be shot or chopped by brutal and licentious soldiery (German or other), I am not really sure that its victory is going to be so much the better for the world as a whole and in the long run than the victory of ____. [Hitler]I don't suppose letters in [to the R.A.F., in which his son was serving] are censored. But if they are, or not, I need to you hardly add that them's the sentiments of a good many folk -- and no indication of lack of patriotism. For I love England (not Great Britain and certainly not the British Commonwealth (grr!)) . . .
>>223326226>said anon as he posted to the shithole that is /tv/
>>223326343gays love shitting on eachother's chest thats breakfast (a second time)
>>223326343it's a homosexual euphemism for eating ass after breakfast
>>223326423No one cares about your shit board, faggot. You losers come here to kvetch.
Contrast that with 300. Here you are tempted to interpret Ephialtes as a tragic character who wants to do good, but Snyder portrays him with a fascistic disdain for dysgenic people. This comes from the same fascistic eye that worships the strength and beauty of the Spartans. Snyder wants you to believe that deep down Ephialtes was always evil and the Spartans were always justified in their eugenics program.
>>223326251I always knew he was a fag, C.S. Lewis saying that Tolkien was "part of that whole Oxford thing" was what gave it away.
>>223325055Holy shit, who cares wnat the evil pieve of shit said? "He" wrote nothing but smoking propaganda, "he" should've been killed
>posting an article from a literal government funded propaganda news website>posting about a book on tvGet fucked, you boot licking faggot. Not /tv/
>>223326371yeah chud retards just mimetically regurgitate whatever their favourite sigma edit tiktok account tells them
>>223326473they are literal fucking quotes from tolkien that you can read anywhere you absolute cretin. you dont even know how to read the websites claim to be evil propaganda machines
>>223326343Gays are huge puke fetishes disgusting
>>223326439>>223326444>knowing that
>>223326371Genuine retard. The term "chud" is used by "good versus bad" left wing morons that think anything that's morally right from their beliefs, or in the grey area, is evil and is something only Nazis believe (as you yourself have shown). You're a close minded, racist little faggot that believes invasion and destruction of culture is okay, just so long as it's being done to white people.
>>223325055What was good's tax policy?
>>223326497The Tolkien quotes are out of context and have no relevance to the article, or the quote taken from the far left comedian Stuart Lee. Disingenuous, scum sucking faggot. Not /tv/.
You can always tell when rope is gearing up for a new marketing spree, because faggots like >>223326251 always crawl out of the woodwork to try lowering the bar.After all, how can the series be a disappointment if the books were never good in the first place?
>>223326565you're just as big of a fucking retard for reading a post that starts off "chuds always..." I can't believe anyone actually read that fucking bullshit and you even (you)'d him
>>223326577The closest thing to taxes that elves used was 'tithe of Yavanna' which was sowing back the tenth of harvested grain.They have NO taxes.
>>223326497Illiterate ESL faggot.The BBC faces frequent accusations of political bias and state propaganda from various political groups, stemming from its historical ties to the British government and controversial editorial decisions.Historical State VettingMI5 Vetting: For about sixty years, the security service MI5 secretly vetted BBC staff to block left-wing or radical voices. This practice started in secret and officially ended in the 1990s, as detailed by Counterfire.Wartime Control: During World War II, critics accused the BBC of broadcasting only patriotic, government-approved views while silencing pacifist or dissenting opinions.Foreign Interventions: Historical accounts show instances where the BBC's foreign language services coordinated coded messages with British intelligence to influence foreign leaders.Modern Bias and ControversiesPolitical Criticisms: Leaders from both the left and right accuse the BBC of bias. Some left-wing critics say economic reporting favors business interests over workers. Right-wing critics and foreign politicians often label the network as a state-funded mouthpiece or a leftist outlet.Editorial Scandals: High-profile controversies—such as disputes over documentary editing or journalistic standards—frequently damage public trust and lead to calls for reform.Public Backlash: Disagreements over coverage of domestic politics, Brexit, and social issues have led hundreds of thousands of households to protest or cancel their license fees.
>>223326565Wow, having a full on meltie, chuddie. Getting mad at things that are only happening inside your diseased mind again.
>>223326590>The Tolkien quotes are out of contextlmao the cope>>223326638Nobody is reading your AI essay, chud.
>sad, uneducated little faggot can't refute anything or provide any evidence, so has to resort to zoomer leftie buzzwords, just like he'll reply to this one withTruly sad. Still not /tv/.
>>223326592>amazon is paying anons to come to 4chan's /tv/ board and shitpost about how tolkien was secretly a homosexual to lower expectations about their showI can't even lie, I want that job.
No one is watching rings of power rajesh
>>223326638greeting from mumbai, my friend! chatgpt! Jai Hind!
>>223326835I thought shitskins were good, why do you hate jeets?
>what do you mean..? h-he based the dwarven language on... on... S-SEMITIC!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHH SAVE ME HITLER AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>223326808He denied there is 'white literature'?
>>223326414Feanor did nothing wrong
>>223326873yes>I have the hatred of apartheid in my bones; and most of all I detest the segregation or separation of Language and Literature. I do not care which of them you think White."Does that trigger you?
>>223326873he also apologized for slavery and even though it hadn't happened yet he apologized for alan turing's chemical castration by the fascist british government
>>223326808Libs want to appropriate Tolkien now?
>>223326592Truke, looking forward to the season 3 threads anyway because they're mostly rangzposting and basically no discussion of the show kek
>>223326894Want do you mean 'appropriate'. Are you denying his 1959 valedictorian address is real?
>>223326808How much do you enjoy anons shitting on you and eating shit daily, schizo troon?
>>223326894what do you (retarded american) mean by lib? leftists (meaning actual socialists/communists) and liberals have always historically loved and appreciated tolkiens work just as much as anyone.
>>223326894They can't create so they try to steal.
>>223326414>(grr!))I didn’t know Tolkien was a redditor
>>223326925getting /pol/acks to actually read about authors they mimetically espouse as some champion of their cause is basically impossible.
>>223326957>loves fags and is one himself>spends all his time seething about americans and white peopleit's pretty obvious he is a redditor
>>223326894>Anarchist>Environmentalist>Anti-RacistTolkien was always a 'lib' by your standards, chudfreak.
>>223326969There's no reason you'd know he's like that if you just read his fiction albeit
>>223326947>leftists (meaning actual socialists/communists) The eastern bloc was Slavic nationalism painted red, it has nothing to do with modern libshits.
>>223326855Nobody cares about this, the dwarves and their language are ugly so it fits
>>223326894Leftists would've assassinated Tolkien for being a devout Catholic Christian, anti-feminist, for supporting Francisco Franco and for being “racist and misogynist” incel and chud.
>>223326998You mean his fiction which is all about different races overcoming their differences to save the trees from Capitalism?
>>223327083>supporting Francisco Francoexcept that never happened. sorry chuddie, pol lied to you again :/
>>223327084That has nothing to do with his comment on race, so yes
>>223327102He did tho
>>223327155nope, sorry incel. your life is a lie.
>>223327155It's a schizo troon and it loves to be humiliated by anons and to eat shit daily.
>>223326608Kek what a nerd you are
>>223325055>>"People have often asked me what moves me most," said Tolkien. "I think the most tragic point in the whole story is the terrible irony that good often does evil. The most tragic moment is when Sam in his protectiveness says, 'Take your hands off.' And therefore defeats Gollum's repentance. Because that seems to be very true to life."I don't understand Tolkien's view of that event. At the Council of Elrond, an elf scout reported that human babies had been abducted from their cribs and eaten by a creature believed to be Gollum. And it WAS Gollum. Sam was at that meeting, so he was understandably alarmed when he saw Gollum creeping on Frodo in his sleep.
>>223327186Nah
>"The treatment of colour nearly always horrifies anyone going out from Britain, & not only in South Africa. Unfort[unately], not many retain that generous sentiment for long." ― Letter 61 — Written to Christopher Tolkien who was stationed in South Africa during World War II>"I have the hatred of apartheid in my bones; and most of all I detest the segregation or separation of Language and Literature. I do not care which of them you think White." ― From a Valedictory Address to the University of Oxford in 1959>"It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil at heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not really rather have stayed there in peace." ― The Two Towers, "Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit".>"I must say that the enclosed letter from Rutten & Loening is a bit stiff. Do I suffer this impertinence because of the possession of a German name, or do their lunatic laws require a certificate of arisch origin from all persons of all countries? ... Personally I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestätigung (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine." ― Letter 29 — in response to Tolkien's German publishers asking whether he was of Aryan origin
>>223327299>"Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject — which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.>Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearing whatsoever on the merits of my work or its sustainability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung." ― Letter 30 — Written directly to Tolkien's German publishers
>>223327219It makes no sense at all. Was he retarded?
>>223327231Yes, sweatie. I am aware that you, and all other polcels, only know Tolkien through three memes:>"Evil can never create">"I support Franco!!">"I hate globalism!"None of these are actual Tolkien quotes. That is why you piss yourself every time I show you an actual, direct Tolkien quote and have to insist that he said all those things on opposite day.
>>223327102>>supporting Francisco Franco>except that never happened. sorry chuddie, pol lied to you again :/>.t. troon faggot
>>223327299>>223327315NOOOO HE WAS JOKING WHEN HE SAID THIS!!
>>223327324I never quoted tolkein. Proof he didn't support franco?
>Tolkien's letter no 53 isn't real???
Did Faenor actually do anything wrong?
>>223327347>>223327315>>223327299>>223327102>>223326980>>223326888>>223326808>>223326643>>223326371still not watching rings of power
>>223327350>tolkeinThere's is my proof
>>223327373He was wrong to be possesive of the Silmarils. The light that illuminated them was not his, he just captured and focused it. Also he could have built his own boats.
>>223327405What?
>>223327434
>>223327219Tolkien: Sam did the correct action given what he knows about Gollum. Also Tolkien: However Sam did not know Gollum at the time was battling his own demons and the "good" side might have won if he didn't intervene at that moment. It's the equivalent of that moment in a movie when the secondary antagonist who had been having an internal crisis of faith could have been saved but tragically something happens and that moment is lost forever, dooming him.
>>223327458In your post pointing out my typo you made an even dumber mistake.
>>223327477To bait you, chuddo. You accidentally revealed that you don't actually know anything about Tolkien beyond pol memes. Not even his NAME.
>>223326643>Wow, having a full on meltie, chuddie. Getting mad at things that are only happening inside your diseased mind again.>t. faggot troon
>>223327421>He was wrong to be possesive of the Silmarils.Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
>>223327504How did "there's is" bait me? My mistake was before that.
>>223327530You are baited right now. You will never read a single page of Tolkien.
>>223327551How did your ESL moment bait me?
>>223327578>Nooo you are not allowed to know several languages!!Not surprising that you hate Tolkien
>>223327609So it was an ESL moment and not bait as you said here >>223327504 ?
>>223326251ya know, Quasimodo predicted alla this
>>223326474>yeah chud retards just mimetically regurgitate whatever their favourite sigma edit tiktok account tells them>t. faggot troon
>>223327421After the Noldor arrived to Beleriand they were immediately attacked by huge Morgoth's army and btfo'd it. By the time the boats would be ready that army might have defeated and killed the Beleriand elves.
>>223327551The idea of a chud reading a book is absurd. Chuds despise words and consider them a leftist weapon.
>>223327666>no uso this is the power of /pol/ack memeing...
>>223326470Do not redeem
>>223327517"No" say the Valar, "it belongs to Eru Ilúvatar"
Tolkien wrote a whole story about this, called the Children of Hurin. Thankfully Hollyjew will never adapt it.
>>223329115"No," says Ungoliant, "it belongs in my belly."
>>223325055Where was the graphic sex scene between Sam and Rosie?Also the post nut clarity where he beats her in a PTSD fueled rage when she didn't peel the PO-TAY-TOES
>>223329363Sam canonically had a ridiculous amount of sex with Rosie. He pumped 13 kids into her. That little horn dog was fucking her after every meal. At least a half dozen times a day.
>>223326716then be born in india next time
>>223327903>KamalaWord salad isn't literature. Very much the opposite, since it impersonates meaning and lacks context, which is why a guy who straightforwardly said shit like "They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats!" got his message across and won the election.
>>223326343Brunch is gay
>>223329409>hears mention of books at large>calls the medium ‘word salad’ Proving the image, my friend
>>223329401He loved sewing seed.
>>223329409Okay now pretend anon said leftists are too seething to read Norman Mailer
>>223326371>>223326474>>223328090>>223326643most organic shitskin shillbot
>>223329458I'm addressing the stupid meme you posted, you fucking humanities half-wit.
>>223329508The meme had the word ‘Kamala’ in it so you took the bait and embraced illiteracy. We can control you down to the molecule this way
>>223329556>i'm not retarded, i'm just baiting
>>223329556>literally doesn't understand the meme they posted>still engages in a power fantasy for a powerless political stanceCan't make this shit up.
>>223329363Tolkien wrote a LotR sex scene for his wife but it was never published because Christopher respected his parents too much.Probably Beren x Luthien but who knows.
>>223329573Joe Biden says you have to breathe to live
Why do Russians hate Tolkien so much? He never fought in a war against them and Mordor was quite explicitly not an allegory for any country (and if it was it would probably be Turkey). So why must they seethe and write "um ackshually" fanfiction so much?
3 supposed kinos by your guy Peter Jackson. I didn't get it
>>223329616Silmarillion has many Russian fangirls. When it comes to LotR I think they noticed similarities with their country and started shitposting. I think Russian translation put some communism-flavored phrases in Scourging of the Shire.
Schizo troon and Ivanschizo in one thread. God help us.
>>223329585>meme is that chuds hate reading, anon says chuds think words are a liberal scam>reply ’books are word salad, they’re a liberal scam’Lmfao ok. Not my post btw
>>223329616russians hate Tolkien because they recognize themselves in the orcs, a corrupt and broken species. A disgusting blight upon the world. They only seek to pull everyone down in the shit pit that they fester in. To bring suffering because that's all the know. They hate everyone fiercely and themselves the most. They destroy because they can not create. They ruin because they can not build. They are a predator society, devoid of any morality beyond "might makes right".
>>223326343It's like a Rusty Adventure but with only two guys and less handsy.
>>223329724Yet the Polish are a beautiful people. Such beautiful people
>>223329596>Tolkien wrote a LotR sex scene for his wife >Probably Beren x LuthienMust have been awkward as hell to read your father's thinly veiled OC fapfiction about himself and your mother.
>>223329760Slavic as all hell, just being beautiful
>>223329691I believe the amount of HRT in your system is giving you some sort of brain fog, so allow me to clarify:If you were to wear a t-shirt that says something inane like "Kamala 2028" and waved a book at me, I'd very much question the contents of the book you're waving, given that Kamala Harris is a vacuous and insubstantial political hack. It could be something absolutely banal and intellectually worthless, like one of the volumes of "Das Kapital" or "The Archaelogy of Knowledge".
>>223329793Right, all i have to do is show you a picture of the word ‘Kamala’ on a guy’s shirt, and if he’s holding a nondescript book, it sends you calling books at large ‘word salad’ and assuming anyone who disagrees with you is a trans socialist.Hence, we can control you down to the molecule this way. Now, a guy like me, I don’t let partisan memes kill my brain cells
>>223329793The Kamala 2028 part was made to fuck with you
>>223329724>>223329616How are Afghanistan, Yemen and Iran/Hormuz going, Ivan?
>>223329724Yes, that's an amusing answer and I'm sure some sincerely believe it, but it isn't quite accurate. That said, there may be some sense of envy over the idyllic Shire, which actually does still remain in England to some degree, despite ongoing corruption.
>>223329724I would wager its simply more Catholic and English than their Russian Orthodox desires.>no no no, it must be because they are satanic neanderthals
>>223329616Why do the jews hate the west so much and flood it with illegal immigrants, Ivan?
>>223329838>it sends you calling books at large ‘word salad’No such allegation was made, and the original context of >>223329409 was related to Kamala's vapid word salad and contrasting it against Trump's forthrightness about the impact that semi-civilized immigrant savages have on their communities. You're not "controlling" me or anybody and can't even seem to keep track of the techniques you're employing.>>223329857You're coping for a badly constructed meme.
>>223325055>And therefore defeats Gollum's repentance.>Sam made me be a bad guy again.Catholics are fucking retarded and deny free will, apparently. Gay shit. I love the books and the movies, but this is a seriously satanic take.
>Lizzolas in her natural habitat
>>223329980You’re playing right into it and you’re calling it poorly constructed.
>>223326925More calling out how you’re a subhuman who needs to misconstrue everything to fit your delusional world view while showing that you despise the shit that you’re misconstruing this showing that you know it doesn’t actually support your beliefs.
>>223330075>Satanic Get a grip
>>223329957Hmm. A good question. Perhaps they feel slighted by their homeland not being all that pleasant and surrounded by enemies, and wish to inflict the same on those who aren't chosen by their Lord yet seem to live in much nicer circumstances. They might not be alone in their resentment.
>>223330107lmfao says the guy who wants to call Tolkein a partisan
>>223330095Not at all. I'm very calmly rebutting while slipping in elements of my own belief system every exchange, such as how Humanities majors are going to be nearly unemployable in a society soon to be dominated by AI models and a new age of irrefutable reason.
>>223330075Sam discouraged Gollum from repenting by treating his honest repentance with spite.
>>223326453Weak men will always lust for power, they will see power as the end goal. While strong men will see power as nothing more than a means to an end, to the strong it is nothing but a tool to wield in order to enact their will. A weak man though, a weak man will never want anything more than simply possessing power. Whatever means of power he can get will become his idol of worship, whether it be money, force, information, etc. that will become his god and he will believe that it is all that matters. And in the end he will achieve nothing of note and be the most loathsome of all creatures both inside and out. That is what Ephialtes is. He is a weak man who wants power, he wants to stand with the other strong men and be a warrior like them, he doesn’t care why they fight, only that they do it. He sees no other way for himself to be useful. When he is offered a way to aid Leonidas and the others in a way that would better suit him he scorns it. He then runs off and joins the Persians screwing over those who burst his bubble. He is the epitome of a spiteful mutant.
>>223329724When will Podolyak drink coffee in Yalta, Ivan?
>>223330142I never said that.
Shijeet and troons spamming the board again
>>223326979>>223326957americans are brown shitskins subhumans
>>223327513why do so many redditors think they're the opposite sex?
>>223330075Do you not find it a little odd that this has never been talked about before and now the BBC has just found these "lost tapes" of Tolkien completely contradicting his story?
>>223330220>the misunderstanding made me go back to being bad independent of my own free willfagA man clarifies; an animal reacts. Either Gollum was already an irredeemable reprobate, or he became such just then because of a misunderstanding.
>>223330354>why do so many redditors think they're the opposite sex?because they're the opposite of sex
>>223330249Tolkein was early 1900s Catholic Conservative with a bleeding Liberal heart, which means pro-structure and God-and-country but not necessarily with any of the more brute racism developed when facing our immigration crises, and actually believes in global loosely segregated peace under what might even be a non-strict notion of God. Did and have liberals slandered the guy ruthlessly as some Militant Racist? Absolutely. Are people wrong for seeing Tolkein's Liberalism, and are Liberals wrong for reading Tolkein detecting it where their leftist compadres can't? No. You'd be foolish to think Tolkein wasn't a strong proponent of the movement and connection of different peoples, even if he might flip seeing what that strategy has done today.
>>223330384this has been talked before, its old news for book readers
>>223330384Tolkien notes and recording have come out on a drip-feed since he first wrote, and have been since he died. Same as anyone from that era, this shit was kept in diaries and lost notes. No youtube or cloud, of course. Dude he's a fine Christian Conservative, but Tolkein is not the precise Right Winger you think he is
>>223330354Mental illness and rapid-onset gender dysphoria.
>>223330427You’re a trying to dishonestly conflate a guy who you slandered the fuck out of as actually agreeing with your cultural marxist nonsense out of one corner of your mouth while continuing to slander him out the other. You faggots do this all the time. One minute you bitch about how the founding fathers would have totally been on your side and then decry them as evil slave owning bigots. You know that liberals of the past are not like you. That you loathe them because you are someone that only uses the veneer of liberal policy and ideology as nothing but a front to push your oikophobic and utterly entropic ideology.
>>223330673Paragraphs exists for a reason
Tolkien as a Great War veteran would conceptualize enemy combatants as a monster horde, but had no problem sharing those same Germans as countrymen and friends during peacetime. He hadn't thought about this fully, and when asked about it made no firm statement about the eternal monsterdom of foreign enemies.
>>223330686Being a passive aggressive faggot isn’t going to change anything.
>>223330673>you slandered the fuck out ofread>Did and have liberals slandered the guy ruthlessly as some Militant Racist? Absolutely. Are people wrong for seeing Tolkein's Liberalism, and are Liberals wrong for reading Tolkein detecting it where their leftist compadres can't? No. >>223330427Which is to say - not every Liberal was your twitter leftist who slandered Tolkien. Just because these blue-hairs go apeshit at anything doesn't mean the rest of us didn't get the picture clearly from the beginning, and I say this having never slandered Tolkien
>>223330708Wow, I wish I could grammar Nazi.
>>223330471What the fuck do "Right Wingers" have to do with it? This is about Sam being the most fundamentally good character in LOTR, whose morality is now apparently in question because a fundamentally rotten organisation like the BBC claims to have found some long lost tapes saying that he actually enabled evil by being so good. It is highly suspect.
>>223330768You think Tolkien is the type of guy who won't apply a Christian re-analysis to his own characters, even if he wrote them as perfectly altruistic? You think, as a Catholic, Tolkein would respond to accusation of previously undetected wrongdoing, and say, 'No, no! He was written to be only good! I know what is right and wrong, I'm a Christian and I bow to no moral force but my intent!' I mean really
>>223330717I did read it, reiterating the point instead of actually giving a counter isn’t going to do anything.>Which is to say - not every Liberal was your twitter leftist who slandered TolkienYou definitely were since you’re here trying to defend the actions of your fellow mutants and create a smokescreen for them to try and hide the fact that you are doing this shit. >Just because these blue-hairs go apeshit at anything doesn't mean the rest of usIt does since you did, or else you wouldn’t be here right now. By engaging in this and acting in this specific manner you’re showing that you’re one of them. Doing the whole unaffiliated schtick doesn’t work when just by being here you showing where your priorities are. >and I say this having never slandered TolkienYou have. The entire point of your doing this is to cover your ass and fall back on plausible deniability because I called out your cancerous behavior and beliefs. And since you can’t argue them you think that if you say “no I am not like those people not everyone is like that” it’s going to work. But as I said above you being here puts what you are. Leave, if you’re capable of actually thinking and doing the most basic introspection think about your life. If not then accelerate your revolution as fast as possible so you can get your head split open by some working class schmuck who you simultaneously claim to support and despise.
>>223330768Is it good to be endlessly suspicious of your neighbor even when he tries to repent?
>>223330821I think the BBC are generally speaking a bunch of lying nonces and they can fuck off. As for Tolkien, he may have struggled with some aspects of tying Catholicism to heroic fantasy, but applying moral relativism to Sam's dislike for Gollum stretches believability.
>>223330856>defend the actions of your fellow mutantsNo I called them ruthless slanderers, false accusers of militant racism, and 'their leftist compadres who can't detect what others can'.>It does since you did, or else you wouldn’t be here right now.I'm familiar with Tolkien and find him to be as I described - educated English Catholic Conservative with a peacetime love for the world's people under God - a fanciful point of view available only by not having lived through an immigration crisis.>You haveWhere? Who do you think I am? Your one-drop rule with politics makes you hallucinate. I am not your trans twitter leftist, get a grip. I don't find orcs to be particularly niggers, is that a problem for you?
Please. These run on sentences. It helps with reading flow
>>223330949>I think the BBC are generally speaking a bunch of lying nonces and they can fuck off. Whole heartedly agree with that> As for Tolkien, he may have struggled with some aspects of tying Catholicism to heroic fantasy, but applying moral relativism to Sam's dislike for Gollum stretches believability.It's not moral relativism, it's a study on intervention against the moment of redemption. Christianity is not about human evil absolutism, it's actually about total human redemption, and Tolkien wrote Gollum to have two selves because he literally meant it that there was still good in this guy, even if he was fucked. And Jesus taught us that on the Cross, talking to our penitent thief, my friend.Kind of sings 'Catholic self-responsibility' to me
Alright well if matters to you so much why don't you just go pistol whip everyone at your local AA meeting?
>>223330962>No I called them ruthless slanderers, false accusers of militant racism, and 'their leftist compadres who can't detect what others canAnd then jumped into the same song and dance they give. Again one corner of your mouth says one thing, the other another.>I'm familiar with Tolkien and find him to be as I describedDeflecting away from what is said is pretty pathetic and shows you know things aren’t going well. You’re here to do damage control, you’re not getting away from that.>Where? Who do you think I am? Your one-drop rule with politics makes you hallucinateI know you’re a cultural marxist trying to cover your own ass and now have to try and say I’m delusional for pointing out how you and your ilk are compulsive liars who only can operate through dishonesty and subversion. It’s not one drop. It’s knowing that you infiltrate and masquerade as things your not, using ideas to further your own agendas until you can drop the act and admit it outright. I am not saying you’re a marxist because you’re a liberal or whatever the fuck you’re trying to pretend I am saying, I am saying that you’re just some marxist shitstain wearing the mask of one. But you know that, you need to keep the act going because saying it outright does nothing for you, it only shows that ultimately I am right and that you’re only here to try and claim someone you despise agrees with you to trick retards into not going against your cancer. And even now you know you’re failing which is why you’re starting to slip into the usual cope you fags give where you cry about anyone noticing you being delusional/crazy.
>>223325055Tolkien was an optimist who wrote Gollum as genuinely wanting to be good, but failing the test because of Sam's interference. Peter Hackson is cynical and hateful, who doesn't believe that people are capable of good unless they have something to gain from it, writes Gollum as a sneak who pretended to be good so he could murder the hobbits later. Frodo heroically pushes Gollum into the pit to destroy the evil beast
>>223331113>And then jumped into the same song and dance they give.That Tolkien has a liberal streak? What is your demand here? How do you need to me to see Tolkien for this to be right? The rest of your post is just attacking me as if I were a part of an angry mob. I get the feeling this argument is more about vibe and attitude than it is details. I mean, I don't know, have you ever met a liberal Catholic?
>>223330075>>223330384Have you fucking read Lord of the Rings? Because it's very clear in the text this is what happens on the stairs of cirith ungol
I guess I'm wondering is it conservative to be a pro-travel segregationist who characterizes races as splitting off into violent mutants due to satan's influence? I guess that is pretty conservative.
OK so what's Sam supposed to do then? Let the violent little niggerhobbit who killed its own family for the ring unfettered access to his vulnerable sleeping friend?
>>223331238He's not Christ, Sam is liable to make mistakes like anyone. Christ would literally have let the junky martyr the poor hobbit just to open the door a sliver towards redemption, though.
>>223331238>>223331262Or, rather, Sam didn't make any mistake, he's only Hobbit and to Hobbit is to err. No fault here, Smeagol remains in proper struggle with his sinful mutation. He does hit the fire but it's not like he went to Tolkein Hell, that's some other rare dungeon where the original satan is kept, and either way I don't find brimstone Hell to be an accurate reading of the scriptures in the first place.
>>223331187>That Tolkien has a liberal streakIn the same way you faggots say the founding father did before you say how they’re evil. You’re disingenuously trying to push something to justify your own beliefs despite them being different from what you’re comparing them to.>What is your demand hereYou know what it is, you know what I am saying, but you know that you can’t argue anything I have said and trying to say I am crazy has failed.>How do you need to me to see Tolkien for this to be rightTypical marxist faggotry, you can’t defend your own bullshit so you need to try and put it on me after failing to push a lie.>get the feeling this argument is more about vibe and attitudeIt’s about what I said it was about, your behavior and what you have been saying has outed you, I have gone into detail on how that is. You just have to ignore that because again you can’t argue it. Basically you’ve been unmasked and now have to run around hiding your face and trying desperately to move onto something else or make the entire endeavor seem pointless. But if you actually thought that you wouldn’t keep replying and continuing this shit. There is a purpose for you to be here, I know what it is, I have said it, and all you can do is try to ignore that in hopes that I will stop. And if you want to complain that I won’t give you the benefit of the doubt, then maybe you should have thought of that before being such a dishonest retard in a thread filled with dishonest retards.
>>223331307I can't imagine you've ever read Lord of the Rings and just like the justified ultraviolence of the Peter Hackson movies, where genetically superior white men strike hero poses while cutting down the brown hordes before Gimli farts and goes OOH THATS GOTTA HURT
>>223331307>In the same way you faggotsI'm not them faggots>You know what it is, you know what I am sayingI don't. Where precisely do you place Tolkein politically? How many times do I have to say he's a Catholic Conservative?>your behavior and what you have been saying has outed youTriggered you, apparently. Oh but I can't say that, right, I have to be really careful talking to you.>But if you actually thought that you wouldn’t keep replying and continuing this shit. There is a purpose for you to be here, I know what it is, I have said it, and all you can do is try to ignore that in hopes that I will stopWhat are you doing here, then? We're both discussing Tolkien's politics. Both of us agree he was a Catholic Conservative, I only say he was a bit liberal here and there. Get a fucking grip dude.
>>223331365>>223331406You’re desperate to try and paint me as something which you can tear down because I was able to see right through your bullshit. All you’re doing is showing you’re desperate and have to resort to strawmen to cope with the fact you failed to lie yet again. Go back to whatever cesspit you crawled from and cry to your fellow mutants how you failed to propagandize on 4chan again. >I'm not them faggotsYes you are, you wouldn’t be here nor would you be pushing this otherwise.>I don'tYes you do, you are pushing very specific point and getting called out for a very specific thing, you can’t argue for/against either so now you have to play dumb to halt all discourse in a pathetic attempt to hide how retarded you are, but that fails since by doing this you’re showing that you know you’re full of shit.>Triggered you, apparentlySee this is what I mean, you need to attempt to throw back shit that has made you seethe in the past because in your mind it’s a catch all when in reality you were the only ones crying about being triggered and asking for trigger warnings. But again good job outing yourself.>What are you doing here, thenCalling you out, see how easy it is to answer a question when? The reason I can do that is because I have no ulterior motive, I just hate marxist faggots like (You).>We're both discussing Tolkien's politics. Both of us agreeNo we don’t agree, you’re trying to push something dishonestly and I am calling that out. You have to pretend like we are in agreement as a way to continue to push that the conversation is pointless because you have been outed. >only say he was a bit liberal here and thereReiterating shit that was already covered and you can’t address what was said further shows you’re just desperately going in circles because you fucked up and were called out.>Get a fucking grip dude.You’re the one who keeps repeating himself over and over expecting a different result.
>>223331529Okay dude I've said my piece.
>>223331536Yeah and you failed and outed yourself as a bad actor and a liar. Now run off with your tail between your legs and pretend you don’t care. Or will you start samefagging to make it look like people agree with you.
>>223331584Seven bullet points is too much, man. You gotta answer at least one of my questions if I'm gonna read that.
>>223326894they've been trying for a few years now yeahit'll fail like every other attempt and in the end they'll just try and scrub it off the internet entirely
>>223331675You still need to reply and make it seem like you don’t care despite already failing and showing that you’re exactly what I said you were. Now you need to pretend like I am not addressing shit and that you aren’t reading what I posted. This is some really desperate shit. Imagine wasting all this time to try and fail to push something and then devolving into this in hopes of saving face? Do you believe that anyone is going to look at this and think that you actually don’t care? Are you going to do this until bump limit?
>>223331754I say Tolkien is a 1900s Catholic Conservative with an indicated liberal streak, and you say I'm a trans twitter leftist who's only saying that to destroy him as a pillar of Conservativism. Or so I guess.I guess that makes sense. Nice to butt heads for a second.
>>223331876So you realized pretending not to care didn’t work and made you look like an even bigger faggot so you need to go back to pretending not to understand what I am talking about just to repeat the version of things you have concocted to cope with being outed. >Nice to butt heads for a secondWe’re not butting heads. You’re running into the same brick wall you always do, so now think that dancing around it and making shit up while being passive aggressive is going to work.
>>223332099I understand what you're talking about, that you think me saying he had a liberal streak means he's some sort of globalist leftist. I thought I did a pretty good job of explaining he was only able to do this within the context of basic national segregation and true-belief 'all men under God' Catholicism. Yes he was pretty clear on national defense and that these orcs were elves mutated by satan's son the demon industrialism (t. Kazinsky) and likely had no course of recovery, needing extermination perhaps. But this is also a person who from the beginning characterized the orc state as one of corruption from once noble elves, which maps pretty well onto the satan-jew accusation so is ultimately a matter of religious leadership. This is where I say 'all people under God', the orcs are orcs because they are physically mutated under satan, and when asked 'what do we do with these remaining orcs after wartime' when it comes to push and shove Tolkien simply isn't the person who chooses to say 'kill em all and let God sort em out', he says it would be a tough story and that that sort of thing is not what LotR was focused on. So that's that, really. Hence I say, Tolkien characterized wartime villains as monsters, and made them permanent mutants as orcs in his fantasy story, but in reality was comfortable shaking hands with Germans and probably happy waiting for the other races to find God. Does that work?Reposted for rewrite, didn't want to get anything wrong here.
>>223332256>I understand what you're talking about, that you think me saying he had a liberal streak means he's some sort of globalist leftistNo, you realized you lost and were outed as a marxist retard so now will spend the rest of the thread shitting out strawmen despite me making it clear in my previous posts what the issue I have with you saying this is, what you are, and why it outs you. But ultimately this isn’t for me, you typed this all out for some hypothetical onlookers who doesn’t have to patience to read through the chain. So you’re hoping that if you present a narrative that this is what that individual(s) will believe instead of what I actually said. Once again extremely fucking pathetic. > thought I did a pretty good job of explaining he was only able to do this within the context of basic national segregationI never said this, this was my first reply to the chain >>223330107 and given that I already made it clear I did not say anything prior to that by pointing out I didn’t say Tolkien was a partisan you are aware of that and are trying to conflate other shit with the strawman you have made for me.
>>223332385Yeah >>223330107 is the post that started me on this conversation, and >>223330142 was my first post in the thread. I replied because you were being fucking ridiculous and I have kept this entire reply chain in memory just fine. >to other readers, he was replying to my first draft of edited post >>223332307, which only added 'satan's son the demon industrialism (t. Kazinsky)' in place of simply 'satan', and 'physically mutated under satan' to replace my heinous miswrite 'physically mutated under God'
>>223332429>YeahYou just admitted that you brought something up that I never mentioned and that you know I never said it. You just admitted to using a strawman. >because you were being fucking ridiculousIs that why you need to make shit up to cope and can’t actually argue what I said? That’s not being ridiculous you’re just throwing a tantrum over being wrong. >to other readersI was right, you are trying to make shit up to convince some hypothetical onlookers that I am arguing something that I’m not because you were btfo and outed.
>>223332520I have to guess what you're saying because you don't say anything except that I'm a deceptive leftist who's lying about not knowing what you're saying
