Holy shit that guy is BADat the game

Runback gives more weight to the boss fight, there's more pressure to learn and win. Normalnigger golems complaining that the game is actually a game should all be lined against a wall.
Still not playing the faggot reddit game tho.

these people would shit themselves doing the Seath bossfight

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>>720701261
>Runback gives more weight to the boss fight
It really doesn't. You pretend it does, but all it does is waste time. You can let the player create their own "weight" by letting them practice efficiently at hard sections by offering save points and respawn areas at those locations, then letting the player challenge themselves with single-segment runs and whatnot after the fact. Forcing the player to run through the same repetitive non-gameplay trash sections over and over again is just developer narcissism and artificial engagement.

>>720701634
>It really doesn't.
It really does.
>but all it does is waste time.
And this is exactly how it does it. You don't want to run back, that's the point. It's a punishment for failure, an incentive to do better next time and win. It makes you dread losing again. That's exactly the point.
>You can let the player create their own "weight"
LOL? Play Mario Maker if that's what you're after. You're not playing a segmented speedrun game. You're playing Silksong.
>Forcing the player to run through the same repetitive non-gameplay trash sections over and over again is just developer narcissism and artificial engagement.
It's a punishment for failure. It's a video game. Simply don't play video games if you hate video games. Fuck off from my hobby and stop making me defend this shitty reddit game.

>>720701634
all games are toys and a waste of time

>>720701820
You typed all that shit and didn't manage to refute a single part of my argument. Impressive.

>>720701916
I did, you just don't want to accept that you're a dumbfuck golem who hates video games and only engages with them because you want to be part of the current thing. You don't even have a real argument, your "argument" is that a punishment you admit to hating doesn't give more weight to potential failure. Are you sapient enough to understand how you defeated your own premise out of the gate, normalnigger?

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>>720701261
Wrong, if you actually want to give weight to it, then it should just follow what arcade games have done for a long time
What the webm showed was clearly just annoying, while the webm OP posted basically just showed someone with a skill issue. But after five tries, the guy would probably be able to do it consistently
It just ends up making retrying bosses more tedious, with longer loading screens, instead of letting you jump straight back into the fight if you fail
>>720701821
Having to waste time before you can waste your time playing the game is wrong

>>720702171
>Wrong, if you actually want to give weight to it, then it should just follow what arcade games have done for a long time
Making you start the entire game over again if you don't paypig?
>It just ends up making retrying bosses more tedious
Yes, that's the point. It gives more weight to your failure and also your victory. Dying is something you shouldn't want to do. If it just respawns you in front of the boss when you die then you don't give a shit about dying.

>>720701261
it's artificial difficulty. instead of giving weight to the fight by itself with tension building up as you get closer to beating it they just add a tedious part before it to make you feel like there's more to it

>>720702421
>it's artificial difficulty
All video game difficulty is artificial.
>instead of giving weight to the fight by itself with tension building up as you get closer to beating it
What tension is there if there's no failure for dying?

>>720701245
To be fair, he is playing at 4x speed

>>720701261
Name an example of a bad runback. You can't because your position is always hinged on the end-user rather than considering a flawed design.

>>720701261
Is there even a boss fight at the end of that? I thought it was just a small arena with some regular enemies.

>>720701261
Whilst true, its the cheapest way to create tension. In the end its padding and tedious. They could also make the bosses take longer or give them a second but shorter fase, shit like this.
The run back will become muscle memory at some point, so thats not adding challenge.

>>720702647
>Name an example of a bad runback
Literally any runback at all.
Place a respawn point right before the boss or challenge intended to waste your time with runbacks, or you are a narcissistic fag developer.

>>720702504
Artificial difficulty is defined by certain traps that is meant to trip up and frustrate players via design outside of engaging of the mechanics of the game.

>>720702835
>Artificial difficulty is defined by certain traps that is meant to trip up and frustrate players via design outside of engaging of the mechanics of the game.
Then how is a platforming segment before the boss artificial difficulty in a platformer? Maybe you're just fucking stupid and you should stick to watching youtube instead of trying to play video games because your tiktok friends told you to get hyped for this one.

>>720702959
Tedium and overly punishing after a loss. It is by and large, pseudo-padding.

>>720703079
>pseudo-padding
Practically padding*

>>720701261
I think dying should boot you back to the main menu so that you have to reselect your save and then reload the game. That way there's more of a time commitment which adds gravity and weight to losing.

>>720703079
So is your opinion that platforming in a platformer is needless padding and the game should be a boss rush that you can't lose?

>>720701261
>>720703335
It is the cheapest way to add tension, especially in a platforming game where the tension is literally derived in the platforming outside of bosses (which are obstacles that prevent progress to platform further). What's stopping this game from making it two screens back but adding those platform elements that the player had to go through just transplanted into the boss room?

>>720701261
>Me when I'm in a "Justify devs shit design" competition and my opponent's a Team Cherry fan

>>720703374
>What's stopping this game from making it two screens back but adding those platform elements that the player had to go through just transplanted into the boss room?
What's stopping Counter Strike from just becoming a Vampire Survivors clone?

>>720703273
It should just force shutdown your PC.

>>720703491
You are not approaching this argument in good faith. This is my last reply to you.

>>720703507
It should brick your PC so you can runback to the store to get a new one.

>>720703395
I'm not a Team Cherry fan. I thought Hollow Knight was completely unremarkable and have no desire to play a sequel, and I think the fanbase is obnoxious as fuck. That's why I told anon to stop making me defend this game. There's nothing wrong with runbacks. You simply don't like video games, you want to hurry and clear it so you can be part of the current thing and you get mad when the game is an actual game that challenges you.

>>720701191
??? Isn't there a bench right next to the screen right before they died?

>>720701191
How can you be this bad? I suck but even I'm not that bad

>>720702293
Intentionally tedious
Fancy words for saying worthless piece of shit
Just admit the game is bad

>>720701191
The worst runbacks are blue smelter and the double tiger fight in ds2. Fuck those runbacks. Those niggers can live. Alonne is fine, and I never had an issue with him, much less his runback.

>>720701191
The only bad runback is the frog

>>720703680
>Intentionally tedious
How is it intentionally tedious when the core of the game is platforming and optimizing movement?
>Just admit the game is bad
The game probably is bad but runback is not the reason why.

>>720703747
but as soon as you figure out the frog never attacks corners the boss is kaput. and even then the runback doesnt feel that long its like 2 minutes.

>>720703079
>artificia difficulty
>tedium
>padding
>respect time
All you have in your tiny little brain are buzzphrases redditors told you to parrot
You are the sheepst of sheep, utterly unable to form one single original thought, utterly trapped in your own little mental prison of internet outrage addiction. You don’t really care about any of this, you are just desperately trying to feel like you care about something, and the
>latest video game controversy clickbait
is your outlet to feel something. I would pity you faggots if only you weren’t the sole reason the entire medium is turning to shit. Fuck you.

>>720703732
>the double tiger fight in ds2.
Jesus Christ, why did you remind me of that you fucking fag.

>>720702293
>Making you start the entire game over again if you don't paypig?
Like, yeah, why even give you a glorified save state in a bad position if you end up being able to retry the bosses countless times anyway?
>If it just respawns you in front of the boss when you die then you don't give a shit about dying
Maybe it’s because your game allows you to do that? There’s not even any real consequence for dying you just lose some currency, which you can just grab it again anyway. So why bother making it tedious? In arcade games, if you die, you lose a life which is a bad thing, since it can potentially kill your entire run

>>720701634
git good faggot lmao. FAGGOT. LOL.

if there were no runbacks then you would whine about having tediously grind through the first phase before getting to the real boss fight

>>720704208
what boss? hunter's march doesnt have a boss when you first go through it

>>720701191
It is unbelievable at first when you die on a boss and then realize how far and bullshit the runback is. I think most people would really feel this first on Last Judge, not the Chapel of the Beast because you can just skip it for the time being. But then you learn to smooth out the runback and it's not too bad. The game is still not that great with all the pointless padding of empty rooms.

>>720701191
How would these zoomers react to any old platformer where you had to redo the entire level if you died?

>>720704437
Then it's not really a runback is it? Just going through the level like any other game

>>720704437
if there were no runbacks then you would whine about having to tediously grind through the first few diagonal pogos on the screen before getting to the wall jumps

>>720704529
Save states, cheat codes, or they don't play them at all

>>720704437
If I restart my save, is the runback to the abyss the entirety of the first two acts? I will complain that the game has poor replay value because there's too much in between to get to the "fun" parts.

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>>720701191
>fails to pogo a stationary target that doesn't hurt you six times
Is this really a thing that people have trouble with?

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cavestory only had one of those in the game, and that's for the hidden final boss.
sounds like the silksong devs got autistic with designing their game.

>>720704208
casuals are literally always going to complain about any obstacle they can until games are streamlined into braindead, failure-proof experiences.

>>720701191
why is the fucking retard fighting everything on the way back. You only do that when you're exploring.
No wonder these people think the game is "way too hard".
fucking morons.

>>720703943
Because the very concept of it just haunts me
>have to trudge through blizzard
>rng respawning reindeer that actually violate the game's no respawn mechanics have to be dealt with and they're broken outside of the respawn
>the area is specifically built to be ran through as co-op
>boss fight is just ass
>your reward is a shitty shield
One of the worst experiences in gaming.

And the iron passage, it's clear they ran out of time.

>>720704529
This is Gen A. Zoomers were the one that were thrashing out Ninja Gaiden with touch controls in Hardcore Mode on their phone so they could post to Retro Achievements and call the game shit to make boomers seethe.

>>720704657
cave story is also basically completely forgotten because it's mid.

>>720704654
Yes, when I played the game for the first time, never played Hollow Knight and forgot the last time I even played a platformer, and using a controller. Switching to keyboard and mouse is way better.

>>720701261
>Runback gives more weight to the boss fight, there's more pressure to learn and win.
the pressure to learn and win a boss fight should come from the boss fight itself and not arbitrary punishments like wasting a player's time
>Normalnigger golems complaining that the game is actually a game should all be lined against a wall.
you are shitposting in a thread of a game you have never played and a genre you never actually dabbled in, because you would know that gravelord nito, seathe, bed of chaos, executioner's chariot, etc, had godawful runbacks that EVERY player hated which caused from to stop doing runbacks in ds3 and onwards
go neck yourself, fucking poser

>>720701261
The devs already said that runbacks mean the game isn't just a boss fight simulator between platforming segments, which makes sense.

>>720701191
I love runbacks, get filtered shitter.

>>720704767
I don't understand why people play through Frigit Outskirts alone. That, Iron Passage, and the Cave of the Dead are all meant to be co-op experiences. The large gravestones at the start are locations that summon signs will go if you place yours outside the DLC areas, so people without the DLCs can get summoned there and get DLC weapons without owning them.

And even if you're offline the game gives you three NPC summons to assist with. Summon them. Gang rape the frozen reindeer. Gang fight the 2kats. That's literally what the area is for.

>>720701191
Silk Song would be a much better game if you were given 3 lives at the start and got more lives by collecting points. Lose all your lives and it's game over. Save points are casual and boring game design.

>>720704208
Nobody is complaining about the presence of runbacks, just that it is badly implemented in some cases. People can't accept that because they want Silksong to be the 10/10 game they hyped it up to be when the very glaring flaws are staring them at their faces.

>>720705125
Go play Steel Soul mode then.

>>720703571
Last room before he fails the jump six times up and to the left 30 rosaries

>>720704864
>Switching to keyboard and mouse is way better.
This I definitely agree with. I honestly can't believe they somehow think this game works better with a controller.

>>720705228
>Go play *game mode that only unlocks after 20 hours of slogging* then
FTFY

>>720705228
>one life
>no way to get extra lives
cringe and not gamey enough

>>720704713
tbf those flying ants can easily hit you if you try to bypass them
>>720704514
technically The Last Judge is optional too or at least skippable for a while, I did that accidentally by getting to the citadel through the mist
>>720705241
goddamn I thought I was going crazy with anons saying that this is a controller game, it works so well on keyboard

>>720701191
>why is difficult game difficult

>>720704657
Cave Story's runback is good since it's a segment that you want to git gud at so you can actually get back to the boss with most, if not all, of your resources in-tact. (I assume this is the point you wanted to make)
OP's webm, minus the extreme skill issue segment, is just extended periods of time spent walking to the boss instead of having something worth gittin gud at along the way.

>>720701261
Every game should be Hardcore only, if you die your game license gets revoked and you have to buy it again. That gives way more weight to the boss fight. Normienigger golem NPCs like you complaining about "money stolen" should be all lined against a wall.

>>720705241
It's like they don't know how most people play video games or something, or that they don't really play anything else but Hollow Knight so they're totally used to their own wonky control setups and think it's normal. Even though keyboard and mouse is very likely the best way to play the game if you're not great with the D-pad, their default KB+M bindings is totally not usable and not intuitive. It's like they've never done any extensive user testing on the game ever, which is remarkable.

>>720701191
hollow knight platforming is shit.

>>720701261
It's not a game, it's a chore.
>>720704967
No it doesn't make sense, that's exactly what I want. Repeating the same section over and over isn't fun
>>720703335
You already had to do the platforming to get to the boss the first time retard.

>>720701191
its a shit game. The demon souls of gen z.

>>720703552
>It should brick your PC so you can runback to the store to get a new one.
the devs should be waiting at the store. You need to get through them to earn a new PC.

>>720701261
this is a fromsoftware slurper, everyone
>unfair game design is PEAK!
You'd love all these shitty NES games

>>720701367
Seath from Dark Souls? That boss is easy, though. I assume most people do it on their first try and never have to worry about crossing the invisible bridges again.

>>720701634
The runback shows your mental state. If you take any damage during the runback then you're not ready to kill the boss. Also I don't remember this one so I must've done that fight first try lol

>>720701367
The Seathe runback in the Crystal Caves is literally crossing two WIDE invisible bridges, that the game automatically signed with a soapstone by default. The golden golems you first encounter there don't even respawn. That's it. You'll have more trouble fighting your way through the crabs in Seathe's entrance than you would running through the caves. That's the entire level design philosophy of Dark Souls distilled into one runback. If you want to get all the items, you're gonna have to suffer some traversal bullshit but most of the time if you don't care you can literally run past all the bullshit to get to the next boss room.

>>720701191
runback is cringe and only trannies defend it, it doesnt add value to them but inflate/pad a game's runtime

>>720702171
Loading screens? Its a hand-drawn 2D platformer, loading screens. Also, the devs seem to think the runback is in their core gameplay loop. Better learn the patterns quick so you don't end up dying all the time like a scrub

When you finish your game that you're making you can auto-respawn at the boss door

>>720701261
I am so tired of Hollow cucks.

>>720701191
I usually don't say this but this is very obviously a marketing post so, buy an ad.

daily reminder that only a complete NPC would let themself suffer through Silksong runbacks

>>720704864
>>720705241
>>720705627
Playing on a keyboard is crazy. Can you imagine playing Metroid, DK, Mario, Mega Man, Ori, etc. on mouse and keyboard? Sadists

>>720701191
Same as hollow knight, it's because the devs are retarded assholes and to buff up play time, i stopped fighting nightmare grimm because he wouldn't stop introducing himself with the shitty black screen "NIGHTMARE GRIMM" every single time.
>>720701261
Difficulty=/= tedium all the run back does is waste my time

>>720701367
No one has ever died to seath

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>>720701261
>Runback gives more weight to the boss fight, there's more pressure to learn and win.
>"every time you lose to the boss we'll waste 1~5 minutes of your time"
Gacha tier tactics

>>720707820
if it works on a d-pad it works even better with arrow keys, you use three fingers to do what you'd normally do with only the thumb so it's objectively easier unless you've never done it. I even played all of Super Meatboy on keyboard

>>720707985
no runback in the game is even close to 5 minutes, at most it's 1 and that's basically how long some other games just take to load (and others yet even have unskippable cutscenes that play every time)
I can't help but feel like anybody crying about the runbacks in this game has never played a game made before 2010

>>720707991
You never need to press A and D at the same time. Or W and S. So you don't need 3 fingers...

I'm noticing that the blisteringly loud and retarded minority keeps pushing and pushing for team cherry to CONTINUE to nerf this game into the ground. I also feel like there are some bad actors in this horde of morons that are doing this so they can shitpost about them bending the knee to casuals. I really truly hate the internet.

>>720707434
>Its a hand-drawn 2D platformer, loading screens
Idc about art shit, your platforming is static as shit. After 3–6 tries, anyone can be consistent with it. At that point, it’s basically a glorified loading screen. Why even bother?

>>720701191
Wait, this entire section is the runback to a boss?
I 100%-ed Super Meat Boy, and I uninstalled Troonsong after dying to the three plants at 0:04 when attempting to do diagonal pogo with a microscopic hitbox and non-existent vertical distance because I respect myself and don't waste time on bad platformers made by incompetent amateur devs.

The runback is part of the boss fight. It's a fucking platformer. Unironically get good at it.

>>720708191
>You never need to press A and D at the same time
but you can go from one to the other faster, and you can keep up and down inputs completely separated from your left-right movement.
I'm not saying that the d-pad isn't enough mind you, I played HK on PS4 and I never thought "I wish I was on PC so I could use the keyboard", but the arrow keys have no downside over it while being faster and imo easier (for an example think about having to do successive upward slashes while quickly moving left and right, with kb the middle finger keeps the UP input and the two others do the movement independently like always, with a d-pad you have to somewhat awkwardly shift your thumb to keep the UP input pressed while also moving and it's easier to accidentally do a sideways slash)

>>720708273
>be runbacktard
>keep running back like a retard
>seethe because smarter people just kick back and force devs to add more save points so they don't need to run back like you

KEK

>>720701191
time you wish you had a console

>>720701191
That's not even a boss. Do people expect to respawn on the same screen everywhere now?

>>720709151
Unironically yes. Kusoge like Celeste conditioned them to expect every single screen to be a piecewise mini-challenge.

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>>720708273
Maybe stop shilling your turd and calling it a hardcore game everywhere, when it's basically just a practice mode simulator with long loading screens

>>720709624
>2hu tard thinks he has room to complain about shilling

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the game should auto save every time you hit a boss so if you die it keeps all the damage, having to redo the first phase of a boss after you've already learned it is just pointless padding

Silksong has taught me that the next Elden Ring game should have longer runbacks again
Demon's Souls got it right by accident

>>720709856
runbacktard had five minutes before his next boss fight to come up with something and this is the best he could do KEK

>>720701191
OH NO I HAVE TO WALK FOR 30 SECONDS BACK TO A BOSS FIGHT

Why don't you just get good you fuckign scrub? If you play the same segment over and over and over, and get WORSe, then just give it up bro.

>>720709787
At least touhou doesn't fake hardcore

>>720701191
This isn't even a boss...

>>720709909
so what's the difference between a platforming runback and a first phase that you can do without taking damage?

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>>720701261
Runbacks should be exactly as long as it takes for me to think:
>Hmm, what did I do wrong that time, and how I can I handle it better this time
I think the only two that were egregious to me were the Verdania and Bilewater runbacks, especially because I never found the bench for the latter. I also wasn't a fan of the Act 3 boss runbacks where you have to wait for the song to finish, wait for the loading screen, wait for the waking up animation, etc.

imagine using benches at all. Im ruuuuuuuuuning back from start of the game every time boss two shoots me, just like devs intended.

>>720709934
Yeah, hahaa, oh shit why do boss attacks now do 2-3 damage or combo into 4 dmg attacks. Oh all the masks you collected were pointless and now you still get 3 shot :)
Oh and the boss won't have a tell which of the 3 attacks that go in vastly different directions its going to use.
Ty for playing our game.

>>720710513
only real gamer ITT

>>720708273
I fucking hate casuals.

It's so bizarre seeing gaming come full circle from the late 00s where the industry was obsessed with casualization and "gamers" despised it. "Hardcore games for hardcore gamers such as myself," and so on. This is one of the reasons why Dark Souls was such a success, beyond Demon's Souls status as a cult classic and Bandai-Namco's marketing (as much as I dislike the marketing); the game went against the grain and offered a challenge that never held your hand or compromised its integrity to "appeal to a wider demographic". Now people will not only admit that they're casuals, they'll do it loudly and proudly.

I can't think of any other medium where people petulantly try to co-opt any specific media that they believe doesn't directly cater to their personal preferences. It would be like people who like Marvel movies deciding to watch arthouse classics and complaining that they're tedious, boring, and should be dumbed down because they deserve to watch them. Gamers don't grasp the concept that they don't have to play or like everything, and that there's some shit that just isn't for them.

>>720710818
I agree and to your last point its just gamers feeling entitled to experiencing everything catered to them. We went from having easy normal hard difficulties to people opting into hard and then crying to devs to make it easier.

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Imagine crying about having to play the game seriously just stick to unengaging slop like rdr2 and bg3 if you hate real video games lol

>>720710818
>>720711051
you can tell these noobs used benches
GET OUT OF MY THREAD BENCH USERS

>>720710818
There are hard and fun like Sekiro.
There are tedious and unfun games like Silksong.
You are an autismal retard.
Simple as.

>>720711051
To be fair, Silksong doesn't have a difficulty setting. However, I don't think it needs one. People should learn to appreciate that people having a shared experience like Dark Souls or Silksong is worthwhile and meaningful. It's fun to struggle alongside others and discuss it. This is true of more narrative-driven games that aren't necessarily difficult, as well; but I think a shared gameplay experience is more meaningful.

>>720711181
do you honestly think you're clever or funny

>>720711197
that's like, your opinion. Maybe you are ass at 2D games and this is why this one makes you mald?

>>720711197
I like both, so whatever

Why are people trying to rush through this game?

>>720701191
>runback
Is this new zoomer slang? Exhausting.

>>720711256
No. I am just smarter than you my mental capacity allows to analyze game design detached from my own personal experience with the game.

>get through the level without taking damage
>have more health to use against the boss
It's a feature, stupid. It's your reward for learning to play good.

>>720711250
baby used benches and now it thinks it beat the game

>>720704654
im terrible at them but its mostly because im terrible at controller diagonals
when i get frustrated i swap to the dpad and get them way more reliably but i hate dpad because its so small and shit

never realized how bad people are at video games until you give them a jump that isn't in a straight line, jesus christ

>>720703872
> 2 minutes
only if you find the secret bench which I found by complete accident

>>720711445
>walk into previous room
>smack nearby enemy for silk
>walk back an in again and repeat until you've healed
>continue with the same amount of health you have had for completing the level perfectly but now your time is wasted

>>720701261
This is truth. Lives and continues need to come back in full force so we can actually get fair and challenging level design and bosses. I think back in the day playing megaman and stuff, they never got obscenely hard with the boss fights because it was intended for the level to be a part of the challenge too. The reason why we have insanely difficult boss fights today in shit like elden ring is because they've turned it into a boss fight simulator where you respawn in front of the fog door every time, same idea as doing the same super meat boy/celeste level over and over again because restarting is only one button press away.

>>720711523
it's almost like there's a reason why every 2d platformer in existence has avoided doing it

>>720711380
>my mental capacity allows to analyze game design detached from the only thing that matters
good for you, I just play games to have fun
>>720711445
sadly invalidated by the fact that your cocoon fills you with silk and allows you to heal immediately
>>720711562
I mean on that line of thought you could farm beads until you can get 100 rosary strings and never worry about losing them ever again

>>720701261
You should kill yourself when you lose so losing the boss fight has more weight to it

>>720701191
I did this a couple times before fucking off to explore somewhwre else instead. People are just stupid and bash themselves against the wall so much they expect it to break and when it doesnt they get all pissy.

The actual true reason players hate runbacks is core gameplay is just unfun.
>hitboxes are pure junk
>hunter pogo has tiny hitbox, but reapor pogo hitbox is so huge, it can damage enemies through shields and platforms
>hunter pogo has no room for error, reaper pogo is literally just easy mode
>you can do a perfect pogo right into the enemy, but enemy hitbox can still touch and damage you
>parry system is useless, you can parry attack and still get hit by it
>some attacks require perfect timing for parry, for others you can just mash X and it will save you 100%
>flying enemies are pure cancer always hovering 45 degrees from you and dashing away
>bosses are just bullet hell in everything but name
>too many FUCK YOU moments made exclusively to fuck with the player one single time

>>720701261
While I do not mind the runbacks, even though they made me just say "ehh, I'll do it later" because I didn't want to go through them again, it'd be much better if there were more stringent, longer platforming/combat sections while travelling the areas/towards the boss battle with a quick continue if you die.

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>>720701191
This game really opened my eyes about howmany fucking shitters there are on /v/, the boss in the webm is not even a proper fucking boss, you only have to fight like 8 different types of ants in a row, and the map bug helps you all the time. Same with moorwing, guy has like 4 attacks easy as fuck to dodge, the runback is like 20 second from the bench and you can get the Quixote bug to help you, and even then the entire boss fight is fucking optional, you can get all the fleas and move with the caravan
Same with last judge, the runback is 30 seconds, I actually timed it because of some many anons bitching about it, the boss does 2 hearts of damage but if you struggle too much you can equip the fire resistant charm.
What the fuck are guys complaining about, are guys not runnning during runbacks and trying to kill everything between you and the boss or waht?
And the only boss that is a bit unfair is the bestfly with the summons, but that's and optional fight and you can always go back with your bail upgraded.

>>720701191
I'm not a fan of runback on bosses but that's not a runback, that's just normal level. I wish the game had checkpoints (not save benches) before bosses, that would be perfect.

>>720711861
I can't let go of reaper, I don't care if it's slow and inefficient for combat, the pogo is too damn sweet. i could adapt to hunter, or I could not and stick to the easy mode. If they really wanted the diagonal pogo they should have stuck with it and given it to every crest

>>720712089
>and the map bug helps you all the time
idk if it's about the order in which I did thing but that bitch never came to my aid anywhere

>>720708191
But you often need to press S and A or D at the same time to pogo and down attack. That diagonal action is dumb luck on a thumb stick, and impractical on a D-pad.

if this has shown me one thing, its how inelastic low iq people are. Normal people easily made switch from "its good" to "wait it sucks actually" once they got their hand on the game and experienced bullshit for themselves, but iqlets cant seem to make this switch.
no wonder marketing works, if retards will feel compelled to defend something like this just because they got caught in initial hype.

>>720701634
Holy shit, this is some reddit "father of 3 love video games but have no time to play" bullshit right there. Git gud or don't play it at all.

>>720712486
>you are all just too stupid to realize you are not actually having fun playing the game
for being so high IQ you seem to really struggle with the idea that not everybody likes the same things as you

>>720701261
No. Just no

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Gay Bugs Sex

>>720712089
I blame - I don't know what to call it - the decline of shame. At some point people simply stopped feeling shame for anything they do or believe, whether it's jerking off to anything or everything, believing the Earth is flat, or getting filtered by video games in their free time. They view the Internet as a way not to discuss things, but to reinforce and gratify their own preconceptions. Anyone who disagrees with them is mentally ill, autistic, retarded, a faggot, a nigger, a tranny, etc. And conversely, the Internet is just a faceless mob and can't impose shame on people in the same way that real communities used to do, which served an important social function. This is all doubly true on 4chan where there's no way of knowing anything about anyone you're talking to beyond the content of their post.

>>720701191
Silksong is the linux of video games, it's for those who don't value their time

>>720708482
>Wait, this entire section is the runback to a boss?
The guy is retarded, there is another bench right before the last room where he fails his jump 6 times in a row.

>>720712636
not what I said lil bro
you can enjoy pointless runbacks and still understand how pointless they are despite being enjoyable to you
what happens is that NPC do the thing without understanding, open forums and see people not put up with the bullshit and then seethe cuz they got played

GUYS
IM GONNA
WAIT FOR IT
READY????
IM
RUUUUNIIIIING
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK

>>720701261
seething replies are elden ring fans

>>720701191
The game actually has too many benches

>>720701367
It was a long run but that's not the one that broke me, it was Gwyn.

>>720712959
Bilewater's actually fun if you don't know about the second and third bench, putting checkpoints ahead every 30 seconds just defeats the purpose of designing levels

>>720701191
I thought you guys loved ds2 here

wtf is "runback"
who comes up with all those new fucking terms
what happened to backtracking

>>720712320
She showed up in like two places for me and both times it was after I already cleared the area. Felt like she was just rubbing it in. I think her "help" is on a timer or area trigger that assumes you're still lost when she pops in, but if you're like me and explored too thoroughly, she just ends up being late to every party. Whole bit felt weirdly undercooked, honestly.

>>720713390
retard

>>720712703
thanks gpt

>>720704967
Just because the devs said that, that doesn't make it true.

>>720713457
Can't a man use dashes in peace? It's not even the em dash that AI loves so fucking much.
>--

>>720701191
>Mega Man figured out the optimal way to do checkpoints in these kinds of games coming up on 40 years ago
>Idiots that think tedium is a substitute for difficulty still get it wrong

>>720713603
Are you sure about that? Megaman is a totally different beast.

You get a few chances to beat the boss, having a checkpoint right at the boss door, but then you get kicked back to level select if you run out of lives and will have to go through the entire level again. This works in Megaman because it's the dev's way of saying "try a different level instead, acquire the boss's weakness, and come back later." But Silksong bosses don't have weaknesses that destroy them in three hits. If you had checkpoints directly next to the boss area and then dying three times teleported you back to Bone Bottom, people would be PISSED!

>>720701191
runback to what?
theres no bossfight there and beastfly has a bench in far fields that you will notoce if you can only stop sucking cocks for 5 seconds and look at the map

>>720713390
The older alternative term would be corpse run, although it doesn't fit here because I don't think hollow knight has the drop your shit mechanic dark souls has

>>720701191
>mindlessly brute forcing some shit theyre no good at
>not just going anywhere else
removing the runback and spawning retarded players right at the boss would have people camp and never leave things theyre clearly incapable or ill equipped to do.

The game is a platformer, the runback is part of the challenge.

>>720713871
I think people would enjoy silksong a lot better if they actually bothered to try equipping new items when theyre sent to the bench.

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>>720701191
>even miyatardzaki managed to figure out long boss runs arent fun and add nothing to the game
yeah this game is not winning goty

>>720714137
I experimented with the various throwing tool weapons, but I used Thread Storm for the vast majority of my playthrough. The only thing it lacked was a few i-frames, but that would've made the Counter skill and the Dark-Dash move completely irrelevant. Rage Rune was a bad version of Thread Storm.

>>720714092
>The game is a platformer, the runback is part of the challenge.
This. Demon's Souls is a dungeon crawler, crawling the dungeon is part of the runback. Same shit here. HOWEVER, this doesn't apply to runbacks that have literally no gameplay. I'm looking at you, Karmelita.

>i'm good because I've beaten single player game!

bruh

>>720701191
FOMO game

>>720701261
The difficulty of the runback should scale proportionally with the difficulty of the boss fight. In essence, is the boss fight an extension of the stage, or is the boss fight more or less a self contained entity?

>>720714416
this

>>720714418
Leechmonger my beloved

>>720704863
Cave Story is much better than any hollow knight though

>>720701261
shockingly based for a stupid pol spammer who doesnt even play games.

What is the difference between a runback and the first 90% of a boss's healthbar after dying just before beating it?

>bumble around like a retard and get hit a lot in most areas of the game
>unless it was part of a boss runback, in which case my trauma response engages and without even thinking about it I do a perfect speedrun line without getting hit or stopping or generally ever letting go of RT
>get to empty boss arena and realize the place I needed to go was in the middle of the area

Can't just be me, right? Hunter's march was a kick in the dick in general but I kinda like the runbacks in this game. It would suck ass if it was just walking to the boss in a straight line and dodging enemies but the level layouts and tools you have make it fun to git gud at being fast. I don't think I've found a runback I couldn't thoughtlessly careen through in 30 seconds after way fewer tries than the boss took.

>>720714740
I like the runbacks because the movement is so fluid and fun

>>720701634
>Run halfway through an obstacle course irl
>Fall off
>Not allowed to just climb up where I fell off
>"Erm I already did that part, things that I have accomplished should never be done again"

>>720715005
I genuinely saw someone a couple days ago suggest if you beat a phase, the next time you fight the boss it should skip that phase and distribute its health among the other phases.

Like what are these retards even asking for? They can't just accept that sometimes you lose a game, it doesnt mean the game is inherently flawed.

>>720708169
I played HK and 1 everytime you lose sucks if you lose multiple times, add that to how many bosses you'll have a hard time with and it gets multiplied even more
>never played a game made before 2010
with emulation that shouldn't be that much of a problem and i don't remember crash or spyro cucking me for 1 minute each time i lose, it's been long since i emulated them but I'm pretty sure that in crash if you lose to tiny or dingodile you immediately restart the boss fight instead of them kicking you out to the level select hub world(I'm talking about crash 3 warped), the only time you actually are thrown back to the start of a level is if you lose all your extra lives which is fair and rare enough for it to be negligible.

>>720701261
If what you're saying is true then how come the true final boss doesn't have a runback section?

>>720701191
>He needs multiple attempts to kill the boss
Do shitters really?

>>720715284
Because it has four phases, making it an endurance test all on its own

>>720715169
if you lose all lives in Crash Bandicoot you load back to your last save, which includes losing any progress you could have gotten in the level like destroying all boxes. Granted that's unlikely to happen but that's because shit's easy, try playing through Rayman without cheats and you'll know real pain (tbf Rayman has built-in cheats, which imo is a thing that should return in single player games. In Silksong for example they could make it so using them disables achievements for that playthrough)

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>>720707985

>>720715327
that should be the game design of all game bosses instead of runback sections everywhere
whole game felt too easy and the runback sections were too easy as well but maybe that's just because I'm a metroidvania pro

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>fromsoft thread
>everyone seething that they started putting graces/bonfires right before the fights
>silksong thread
>everyone seething that they have to spend 30 seconds running back

>>720715356
>try playing through Rayman without cheats and you'll know real pain
I'm not into cbt

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>>720715378
The game's difficulty really is a meme. It's Dark Souls all over again, with people refusing to play the game the way it was designed to be played. Once anyone can adapt to the game design, the game clicks and bosses rarely take more than 2 tries.

>>720715479
bilewater is about as close as we've gotten to a graveyard/tomb of the giants DS1 since it released.

>>720701191
I don't even remember that section lmao.
What boss was it for?

>>720712089
outrage/drama culture

>>720715541
the greatest filter of brainlets of all.
Savage beastfly.

>>720715541
not even a boss but the ant arena
day 1 people entered hunter's march as 3rd zone or even 2nd and quit

>>720701634
>i'm le chad
it does and you're a mental child who lacks discipline, platforming is inherently part of the game and its exploration and if you haven't mastered it you have not beat the game

Now that it's been debunked that adventure games only lead to fake difficulty, when will developers bring back arcade game design?

>>720715634
What's the correct order? Hunter's March feels about right for the 3rd area.

>>720701634
/THREAD
BASED AS FUCK

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>>720715479
Agree. People just don't want to learn how to play.
>player pogos with Hunter crest once
>Oh, diagonal pogo? That's scary and different...
>Give me my old, familiar pogo from Hollow Knight instead!
>20 hours later
>player hasn't learned how to sprint in combat
>player hasn't learned how to clawline in combat
>player is still using Wanderer crest, awkwardly walking up to the boss, and spamming attack with limited range
>when that fails, has no idea what to do
>player goes online and writes a seething manifesto about how flying enemies are "badly designed" and it's the game's fault that he can't close the distance

>>720715690
not if youre a retard like the player in the gif.
You want (need) atleast the dash, and would benefit from having the glide too.

>>720715690
You're likely supposed to go through it to access the connections it has to the Far Fields and Deep Docks before tackling the deeper sections. The one arena you have to fight will likely have Shakra help you during it as well assuming you didn't somehow blind her in every area you can first meet her.

>>720715479
>bosses rarely take more than 2 tries.
I don't get how people beat bosses blind with low single digit tries.
The only boss I beat in less than 3 tries was the first one.
If I had to guess, my average is proabably 6-7 tries.

>>720715690
Hunter's March is supposed to cockblock you, and I believe the "safe" path is to just go from the Marrow to Deep Docks, and then Far Fields from Deep Docks. The big ant guarding Hunter's March is doable without sprint, but much easier with it.

>>720701261
So true, I can tell you really do play videogames and a lot of them. Actually I would even say the game should uninstall itself too. That way you get the pressure and anticipation of re-installing the game which gives you time to replay the fight in your head, refining your tactics and developing a plan for the next attempt. There's more pressure to learn and win this way and something about normalfags and reddit too.

>>720715912
It varies, but people are also retarded when saying that bosses don't telegraph their attacks. The hardest telegraphs I've seen are from Lace since she has 2 or 3 attacks that have her crouch, but the position of her pin is different, which fucks me up specifically since I usually try to pay attention to the stance of the enemy's body instead of what they're holding.

>>720701191
if you dont die to the boss, you don't have to do the runback

>>720715991
>the game should uninstall itself too
There are games that effectively do this by essentially bricking themselves to stop you from playing again, though obviously they're not known for their difficulty.

>>720701634
Basado.

>>720706730
elden ring doesn't have runbacks

>>720703872
never attacks corners? but his spit bubbles and when he emerges after a dive and his soul attack do reach the corners
>>720705740
gitting gud at pogoing is important

The only really shitty runbacks in Silksong are in Bilewater and to a lesser extent Verdania when it comes to bosses. Last Judge was annoying but it's not long, I think the biggest issue was that ONE conchfly that had like a 50% chance to decide to cockblock you if you tried to go under it quickly, other than that there are no enemies you need to engage with if you know where to jump (and I think they removed/moved that conchfly now?).
There are some other annoying things like playing Needolin to cutscene for memories (part of why Verdania is shit), the Coral Tower gauntlet, pretty much every gauntlet in Act 3 with voidniggers but most aren't because of runbacks (unless you forgot to grab a bench beforehand).
Also while not an issue for me, I noticed that one of the first climbs in Mount Fey right after you can get the map is oddly tight on the freezing timer which I've seen scare a lot of people off from trying to keep climbing because it gives them the idea that they are not supposed to go there yet.

>>720716432
its openworld slop. 90% you do nothing but walk empty fields of nothing

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>>720716665

>>720701191
I'll admit that looks lame, but once you figure it out it should be simple

Just a PSA: cross stitch (the parrying skill) completely changes the gameplay and allows you to be much more agressive vs bosses. I figured silk skills were worthless against single bosses until I found it. Doesn't help much with runbacks but you don't need runbacks when you destroy the bosses.

>>720714028
>corpse run
ah alright
i didnt realize what was going on in that webm

>>720714028
>I don't think hollow knight has the drop your shit mechani
It does, you lose all your money and some of your maximum bar

>>720716792
I agree, my reaction to openworld games and fromslopware in general

>>720716838
>cross stitch
you didn't beat the game

>>720716838
okay but have you considered
>architect crest