>hunt: showdown
curious but 2spooky
>tarkov
cheaters

>>731556393
Because the people who like PvP make it their entire gameplay style and personality and completely forget the vE part because they're too shit at games to play PvP-only.

>>731557240
Angry redditor baby detected. Go back to PVE only games.

>>731557240
because the vE part is never a threat after playing a game for barely a week, its just a mild inconvenience during PvP

>>731556393
Tarkov is so fucking boring jesus christ you people have really nothing to do in your entire life than run into the hamster wheel?

Duckov is the only good extraction shooter because I don't need to deal with stupid fucking retarded bitch ass NIGGERS who hooked up their automatic fleshlight so it jerks them off whenever they kill another player.

>>731556393
JigC rocks

>>731557240
Yes you hit the nail in the head. This is why PvP MMORPGs are doomed to flop. The PvP sweats want to PvP, the PvE players want to do their thing. Two worlds that can't coexist, it's impossible, they want different things. The PvP Andy will do some PvE if it means advantage in PvP but that's it. And of course if it's an MMORPG it's even worse, because there will be easy prey. There will be people grinding the game like it's their life just to grief others or feel powerful, this makes the PvE players eventually quit out of frustration. Its just no viable arc riders is just more proof of it.
PvE players be like
>Hehe this will be fun! Let's go team
PvP players be like
>Let me sweat like my life depended on it

>>731558785
This is also why some games like FF14 and PSO2 segregate PVP into its own area, own mode, own balance, own design philosophy, completely divorced from the rest of the game as it should be.

>>731556393
tarkov is an irredeemable price of shit game. complete garbage.

>>731558785
PvP games are the most fun at the short term so its okay. It also makes carebabbies seethe and ragequit so its win win

FUCK TRAMMEL FOREVER

>>731558785
you can go on the Haven and Hearth forums and see literally 15 years of this exact shit play out.

>>731556393
Most people don't like to be ambushed and die unceremoniously, it instantly reminds them how easy it is to die in real life without even have the time to ponder how unfair it is.

>not a good pvp game
>not a good pve game
>worst of all worlds

>>731557479
Heh, just like the Walking Dead...

Ironically PvPers won't just go to arena shooters for their PKing fix

>>731556393
Why has Twitter just become sharty 2.0
Every other post is talking about Cobson or TND
This is why i moved to Bluesky

>>731556393
I don't play enough pvp games to get good at them, so the idea of losing all my shit to some unemployed metaslave doesn't sound appealing to me.

>>731556393
Because PVE people just want to do the same repetitive shit again and again and again with minimal danger and are incredibly averse to losing while the PVP people want the challenge of hunting something that can hunt back.
The two groups can not coexist.

>>731557310
When people do that, then PVPfags complain that there aren't enough noobs to farm tiktok clips off of. Look at how pissed they got with Arc raiders match making that changes based on how hostile you are. Hell, look at the endless seething from pvpfags in elden ring.

>>731566753
okay, redditor

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>>731556393
>Why are people so averse to PvPvE games?
Because they try to forcefully mix two type of peoples that go along like oil and water

The PvPers are sweaty tryhard that camp exits and bushes, look for players instead of looting and will bitch about anything that manage to kill them, weapons get called OP and AI being a threat make them angry too because it distract them, doesn't matter if it work as intended they will bitch about it and engage in month long astroturfing campaigns of nerfs
The PvErs are dogshit at the game, are gullible as fuck and just want the game to be some kind of sandbox where they're left well enough alone by the poopsocking sweatlords to have their own fun, they want the AI to be more challenging and not engage with PvP or any other human being that isn't their friends
The actual PvPvErs are a nearly extinct breed, a extremely niche part of the internet not big enough, or wealthy enough, to support these type of games by themselves

The correct move is to not play PvPvE games ever, do something morr fun for you instead

>>731567441
This is why Battleborn died, not because it launched next to Overwatch.

>>731556815
Hunt: Showdown sounded interesting until I looked into it and found that most of the "E" in PvPvE are humanoid types. I thought it was going to be much more focused on hunting down wild cryptids instead, lost a lot of the appeal.

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>>731557240
>>731558785
>because they're too shit at games to play PvP-only
No, it's because in this virtual simulator of Man vs. Thing there is more organic and more entertaining reactions from attacking the more convincingly-alive of two things. Do you believe that's you or an NPC? I know it's not a huge difference but the answer is you. Therefore if PVP is an option I'm going to rip my fun out of you.

>>731556393
fuck off, xigger

>>731556393
I don't play tarkov, couldn't he just shoot the guy? Is this like a world room and the redditor is just a retard using essentially public space?

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>>731568353
Then why not play a game centered around specifically that?
Fightcade, ssbm through slippi, rocket league, an RTS like sup com, fucking chess!
You don't want to fight someone and discover increasingly deep interactions as you grow with the game, you want to third party and loot some dopamine off their corpse. That's why these games always have metaprogression. Because those 'interactions' you're looking for are actually all quite similar and get stale without dangling a carrot in front of you

>>731558785
except arc raiders is one of the most popular games of the present day and there were tons of mmos with pvpve that made billions, like runescape and wow

>>731556393
>basedjak
>twitter screensot
>unfunny joke
Go back to the sharty shithole and twitter

>>731556393
Because it's just two groups of people
People who enjoy PvE and like to progress and play a fun game
and people who enjoy PvE and like to ruin other people's progress, thriving only on the misery of others
It's some dudes vibing and some dudes ruining the fun

>>731569270
>and people who enjoy PvE
PvP, of course

>>731568203
I wish they had stuck with their original concept of third person L4D2.

>>731569175
How come this game blew up out o nowhere?

>>731556393
post that ms paint drawing where the guy shoots a tank with a pistol and it goes ptunk ptank, the tank blows him up he goes to complain on social media and the tank gets nerfed

>>731569175
>tons of mmos with pvpve that made billions, like runescape and wow
If you just consider every game with an open world and PvP to be PvPvE, then the term is meaningless

>>731556393
If I want to play PvE, I want to focus on PvE. If I want to play PvP, I want to focus on PvP. I enjoy both of them separately, but mixing them together just isn't fun for me.

>>731570917
Old School Runescape matches PvPvE in my opinion. The Wilderness zone has a bunch of bosses that pay out way above their level, but item loss PvP is active in the whole area to balance it out. In theory you kill the bosses and clash with other people for territory. But the way it plays out is noobs go in with zero plans to fight back for the easy boss money, and they get farmed by people with expensive gear that just hunt players instead of the bosses. The noobs then they cry online that they're getting owned and the PvP aspect should be removed.

>>731558650
Reminder that on /tv/ this post would get you a 30 day ban

>>731567121
>PVP people want the challenge of hunting something
Ah yes, the absolute delusional lie PvP players tell themselves in PvEvP games. As if they they aren't just rats blindside ganking people.
Being the harsh truth is PvP sucks in PvEvP games. Players tend to win due to gear or the other person not looking for a PvP fight. That's why only true PvP in PvP games matters. Yet PvP focused players in PvEvP games don't want even fights based off skill.
So they camp and rat in shitty PvEvP games. Then the PvE bitches are unhappy as their fun builds and gear gets nerfed to balance PvP. PvEvP is just a trash system where nobody wins

>>731556393
There's more people that like only PVP and only PVE than there are people that like both combined. That's why tarkov is filled with cheaters and why SP tarkov was a thing even before it was so noticeably infested. That's why Arc Raiders has so many people that get pissed off or annoyed at other players for playing differently.

>>731558064
This.
Turns out you can in fact just chop off the PvP part and have a good game, but that isn’t conducive to GAAS shit.

>>731569574
Heavily advertised, like any other new high-budget game.
That’s just how shit works.

>>731557240
this

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EFT is only fun when you don't know anything about the game and everything is new.
Once you realize how bad the netcode is PvP loses its appeal, then you realize that all those shitty quests are intentionally bad to pad out playtime, then you see wiggle video and lose interest in playing multiplayer.
All of its problems have been there for years and the scummy devs never bothered to fix any of them, because they don't see the issue, not even with cheaters in every match.

Every other game that tried to imitate it failed. ARC Raiders was okay but at some point you saw everything that game has to offer too.

As we play games, we optimize strategies. Optimizing strategies for PvP means making the game as unfun as possible for the other player, removing as much agency as you can from their actions to keep your own performance consistent. It's an inherently unsustainable model unless your engine is ridiculously addictive.

Reminds me of how you'll see people play Day Z and they'll just shoot someone running across a field for no reason, and because they've played literally 1000 hours they score a perfect headshot.

>>731569134
>Then why not play a game centered around specifically that?
Same could be said about the pve players as well. Helldivers 2 has almost the exact same feel and it's pve only and a recent game. Just go play that.

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>>731571718
PvP is basically entirely avoidable in OSRS if you don't want to engage with it, which is why it's only a small minority of players that complain about it and it poses no threat to the longevity of the game.
A real PvPvE game like Arc Raiders or Sea of Thieves doesn't have that choice, which is what leads to the community schism that always occurs in these types of games. PvE players that can't cope with the PvP aspect eventually either get turned away from the game or complain enough that the devs make accommodations for them out of fear of losing too much player base, which in turn annoys the PvP players.
The bottom line is that if a player doesn't want PvP, they shouldn't be playing a PvPvE game.

>>731576468
If there were PvE/co-op focused alternatives I would agree with the last part but there really isn't anything like arc raiders or sea of thieves for that.

it attracts the most retarded pve and pvp players

>>731576863
There are singleplayer extraction shooters. Zero Sievert comes to mind but I know there are more. It's just not a popular genre. Otherwise there's no shortage of singleplayer RPGs that involve farming loot for crafting, which is essentially what a singleplayer/coop Arc Raiders would be minus the extraction element

Basically I'm just going knock you out and take your stuff LOL

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>>731556393
1. Games like Hunt and Tarkov have well deserved bad reputations
2. Games that allow for this kind of gameplay loop tend to attract the absolute worst 70 IQ gorilla nigger PvP retards.
3. Cheaters often appear in large numbers as a result of point 2.

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>>731557240
>and completely forget the vE
Absolutely not true, Tarkov would be the worst fucking game imaginable without the PvE elements
see: Tarkov Arena
same is true for the opposite
see: Sea of Thieves
PvP only games are just competitive esports style dick measuring contests and MMR treadmills
PvPvE is where its at

You like gathering cotton allday
I like gathering that cotton from your corpse
Shrimple as

I want social media screencap posters AND shartytoon posters fucking permabanned.

>>731556393
Because the groups of people who play pvp and pve generally don't overlap.

>>731569134
>>Then why not play a game centered around specifically that?
Why not play a game completely centered around PvE?
How did you think that argument worked? You think PvPvE genre shouldnt exist and all of those games should be one or the other?
>I signed up to be ganked in this game with PvP elements and now iam dead, how could this be happening to me????

I hate pvp niggers for one reason
>NOOOOOOO THIS KILLED ME NERF IT NERF IT
>NOOOOOOOO I CAN'T CURBSTOMP PEOPLE BUFF THIS
>NOOOOOO I AM NIGGERFAGGOT STREAMER AND I WANT TO KILL NEW PLAYERS NERF THIS BUFF THAT
There were people bitching about free loadout because "it can kill someone who grinds all day", just kill pvpniggers

>>731577516
Oh and I forgot to add, PVP niggers are usually the biggest paypigs

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They are fun but soon taken over by try hards. I like Dark and Darker but if any one new tried to play the game it would be a nightmare for them, mainly due to other players.

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>>731577998
Free loadout is gay shit because its 0 risk for all the gains
I black out nigger scavs legs when i see them in Tarkov and leave them alive for this same reason

>>731578057
Bullshit
Star Citizen has the biggest fucking Space trucker boomer infestation of all games

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>>731577998
Yeah I hate all that shit too.
I take every chance I can to play goofy, off-meta shit not because I need to win, or need to be the best, but any time I get to shit on a pvpfaggot or a twitchfaggot using broken meta shit, it's genuinely funny.

>>731556393
Ark showed what PvPvE games devolve into. Cheating megatribes farming beach bobs, goblin mode raiders that very rarely if ever punch up(even though megatribes are the most vulnerable to goblin tactics) and farmslavery.

Also, the cpup de gracie: offline raiding. Cant beat someone in a fair fight? Cool. Just wait til they log off then foundation wipe them.

>>731578376
>Ark
Who dat??? Lmao
Sea of Thieves showed that PvE only faggots will squirm their way into PvPvE games and demand the game cater to them

Is that JigC?

>>731562912
Vas Ort Flam
Corp Por

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>>731557240
>>731558785
PvP chads live rent free in PvE babies heads

>>731576468
It goes both ways. If you lose the PvE players you start losing the PvP fags because most of them are only playing because there's a permanent population of free kills and they don't really want to interact with the game beyond that. See GTAO where free roam was permanently ruined by wallet warriors who would literally do nothing but fly around killing people who had no real way to defend themselves before immediately rage quitting the second they ran into anyone who could actually kill them.

>>731578317
Star citizen is a very special den of autism.

>>731578639
Aren't the PVP chads mad after PvE was introduced in Tarkov and they now have to fight each other, which apparently sucks?

>>731558785
Mmorpgs flop regardless because they suck

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Proposal:
Just make a PvE MMORPG.

>>731578892
I dont play Tarkov

>>731578832
Doesnt matter, its the game with the biggest amount of paypiggers and they mostly all happen to be PVE only boomers that like taking pics of their yachts and posting on reddit instead of engaging with multiplayer games on a more deeper level treating the game like their second job just to see number go up

>>731579038
Thats basically 90% of all MMORPGs
Even WoW has PvE servers where most people default to
I dont get why this shit is such a big deal to people
You either like PvP or PvE, or you like a mix of both of them
Maybe just dont buy games you arent going to like?

>>731569574
Streamers and Ecelebs got paid to shill it

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Why would I play Tarkov when I can play Arena Breakout

>Buys a pvpve
>Dies to a normal enemy
>...
>Dies to a player
>UNFAIR BULLSHIT! HE'S CLEARLY USING ENDGAME GEAR, CHEATING, AND A NO LIFE SWEAT!!! I JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN AND A HECKING GOOD TIME! I DID NOT CONSENT TO THIS! THIS IS LITERALLY RAPE!
Why are they like this?

>>731579086
Because it's an entirely different type of game compared to what's being discussed here

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>Tarkov
>play tactically or gung-ho against a variety of npc factions (some being tough bosses) and equally dangerous player PMCs
>reality: npcs are dumber than dirt, the best place to shoot with any caliber gun is in the legs, if you don't play the game with ESP on you will never catch up or beat those who do

>Rust
>play an island sandbox pvpve game where everyone scrambles to create their domains sneed strongholds, and participate in cutthroat robberies sneed sieges
>reality: be swarmed by the server's 90 Brazilian/Russian children, and lose everything overnight, even if you do build the minmax honeycomb mc escher base that always looks like shit

>ARC Raiders
>travel topside and take down predictable but deadly robots, while choosing whether to ally or betray other raiders to gain the upper hand
>reality: ignore every progression system in the game, twink your character out with a backpack full of grenades and raider specific weapons, to shoot every possible player you come across, and then complain when you're put into matchmaking with other players who play the same way months later

tl;dr: subhumans are incapable of nuance or imagination and can only rely on betting that the other person is just as much of an aggressive wiki reading bugman as the other guy, turning every game into a game where your playerbase optimizes the fun out of your game.

>>731557240
This, PvPers like stealing shit from people who work hard. It is gross behavior

>>731578153
I think dark and darker died because they didn't put reasonable gear brackets into HR and it turned into COD with everyone having a ranged option. Getting my shit rocked by some fighter with a longsword is okay, getting ranged by a firing team of fighters is fag shit.

I once asked in a PvP sandbox MMO thread, why not make it so it's extremely easy to get endgame level gear and as a result PvP fights depend on who's the better player with a better build or party composition?
My answer from a PvPer was "Why would I want to play that game?"
99.999% of PvPers in games where PvP and PvE attempt to co-exist are low IQ browns who, much like the 7 year old you did when you figured out some unfair exploit in a game, get their dopamine from associating the result of the kill with their own merit, on account of not having enough intelligence to realize that an unfair victory has nothing to do with merit. Because of this mindset being dominant AND CATERED TO in games of this kind you get the standard procedure of PvErs leaving and PvPers having nobody to fight with, since they wouldn't risk trying to start shit with someone within or above their own weight category.

>>731579691
Why didn't they work hard to protect their loot? (:

>>731579370
Ill reply to your garbage post with another just to waste your time aswell

>>731558785
>dynamic unpredictable world bosses BAD because even doe the E in PvE means EVERYTHING i don't wanna lose!

>>731579827
it means environment doe

>>731579782
Because, like was said earlier, PVPers are tryhards that make it their entire personality. It's an obsession for them. You can't expect your friends to be at your beck and call for a videogame.

>>731579889
yeah, they are bullies who like being on top of you for doing less. the only way to win is not to play

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>>731577998
>Play PvP
>Realize my build is cancer and is impossible to defeat for certain players who use less cheesy builds
>Either switch to a less cancerous build or end up avoiding fights with the less powerful players unless provoked
>Deny any notion of winning a fight because I'm good if a player with a bad build compliments me
>Play against someone with an even more absurd and more cheesy build
>"What do you mean I won because my build is unbeatable? Why wouldn't you play an unbeatable build?"
Honorless melanin elementals should be disallowed from playing games on the same servers as their former white masters.

>>731556393
The games are not fun.

>>731578639
Unironically it's the exact opposite. PvP players love preying on PvE players, and when the PvE'ers leave/quit, that leaves the PvP'ers all to their lonesome and they have to fight eachother, which they usually realise that sweating like your life depends on it 24/7 gets old real fucking quick. Plus there's just a shit ton of cheaters out there nowadays, on both PC and Consoles to take PvP very serious in most games imo.

>>731580063
>melanin elementals
kek

>>731580653
>which they usually realise that sweating like your life depends on it 24/7 gets old real fucking quick.
this line alone proves my point, you think someone just playing the game is giving 150% because they killed you when they literally are just playing like you. your ego cant stand that, so you make up some bullshit about how they take it too seriously or something. ironic.

>>731556393
Reminder that someone literally murdered his mommy and daddy who loved him very dearly annd probably wouldn’t have cared if he was faking his entire life, over Tarkov.

>>731574438
I would like to remind everyone that Nikita gave a conference speech back in the days where he basically said that small but solid number of cheaters seem to drive MTX-purchases because most players, if they already like the game, will instead of leaving try to eke out any and all advantage they can and even engage with P2W systems if they are not too egregious. So either he is coping, right, or out of the fucking loop 202X since Tarkov is absolutely infested vs. Contract Wars.

>>731556393
multiplayer is a crutch for devs unable or unwilling to make the npcs fun enough alone.

>>731578639
Nice cope, everyone can see who is the loudest, whiniest minority in every online game.

2026 and wojaks STILL aren't funny or creative

Hahahahaha, a lot of you would be sodomized irl if it weren't for the law.

I like Misery :)

>>731556393
The two sides of a modern PvP game:
>Full of cheaters
>Invasive anti-cheat software with root access

>>731569358
Im pretty sure one of the dev left to make exactly that because he was pissed his idea got turned into PvPvE.
It ended up being a shitty generic game with a mostly positive-mixed reviews, I forgot the title but it's still on Steam.

just play the dark souls games, there are always pve players to invade
>>731579369
isn't an argument because there are 2 of them, sometimes 3 people

>>731569175
arc raiders is basically PVE unless you start being aggressive. I havent killed anyone and died to PVPers maybe 3 times in 40+ hours.

>>731556393
Because nobody wants to play as the prey

>>731557310
This right here shows why pvpve fails. Pvp playings are too stupid to understand the genre

>>731581308
Found it, it was Remenant
They even share the same animation as alpha Hunt trailer

>>731556393
The whole genre is for retards. PVE players can just go play shit like warframe, Deep rock, Helldivers, ect, but they insist on going into a game where they can potentially be killed by other players. Then theirs the PVP players that don't actually want to fight anyone as much as they just want quick dopamine hits off of easy kills on new, weak or unsuspecting players. You'll never catch these people in any PVP game where you and your opponent are on an even playing field. I really don't see who this genre of game is supposed to appeal to.

>>731569175
Less niggers back then, unironically

>>731580779
Meanwhile every time they add PVE only servers all the PVPfags start crying because they won't have anyone to kill

>>731581725
>Whole Genre is for retards
Isn't there just like, 2 or 3 games in the entire genre?

>>731581190
yeah everytime a PvP game is announced a million billion PvE babies piss and whine they can wander around in it without getting killed

>>731581725
>You'll never catch these people in any PVP game where you and your opponent are on an even playing field.
Name five

>>731581725
People just want a pvpve open world mmo without the burdens of logistics, guild drama/management or having to pay a subscription. Just queue and play, i guess it helps if it's on console too.

>>731582365
This but also I don't people to be able to just steal 100% of everything I looted and built over hundreds of hours.
It's why Runescape gave you access to a bank to protect your shit.

>>731556393
Because all of these games are boring 90% of the time, even more if you're pretty shit at them. The other 10% can be amazing though, but it's just such a shit ratio.

>>731582236
chess
horseshoes
uno
monopoly
counterstrike

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This shit is so funny to me as someone who has loved FromSoft multiplayer forever. A whole new generation of gamers coping and seething over systems and mechanics that they consented to engaging with.

>>731580779
That's how a lot of PvP'ers are now, doesn't matter what game it is anymore either really. Casual PvP is on it's death bed.

>>731559093
FF14 did it smart to segregate PvP on its own, but it needs to do it with it's Savage Raiding aswell. Godfuck its so awful leveling a new job and it's 90 levels of agony because "these five fights at max levels need to be balanced."

>>731581190
I dont play gay extraction shooters but every thread about arc raiders is people that pve crying like a bitch

>>731581202
I miss rage comics.

>>731567869
Battleborn had a thousand different reasons for dying lmao

>>731557240
And people who enjoy PvE have to deal with the PvP tryhards that follow the meta.

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>>731581725
This.

PVE fags have fun by playing the game.
PVP fags have fun by preventing the PVE fags from playing the game.

It's really not that hard to understand why a game built on that system is bound to fail even before taking into account the mentally ill and cheaters.

>>731583110
how many times have you gotten into a flamewar in one of those "a dark spirit has inv-" threads?

>>731585130
I don't waste my time with that bait. It isn't even entertaining.

>>731568203
Well yeah it’s a PvPvE game focusing on the PvP where the E parts are mostly just obstacles or objectives that players have to work around. PvPvE games that don’t focus on one or the other are ususally shit so I prefer it this way

>>731579782
Because these games are usually set up in a way where the aggressor always has the advantage

>>731582995
>they don't play REAL pvp games
Lmao, nigga end your life

>>731557240
The vE is a beartrap for PvE cattle who inevitably end up as the prize for PvP players. You give the former a sniff of something they actually want only to get shot in the back of the head. If you were to split the two into separate lobbies PvPers will cannibalize the shit out of each other until it falls apart and PvE players will plod along at a much slower pace until they eventually move onto to other games.

>>731585856
Not to mention the moment a rare item shows up, everyone turns into a bunch of spastic monkeys fighting over a banana, which ends up cascading through the playerbase as they turn into paranoid murderhobos.

>>731556815
There are cheaters in every single multiplayer game now
Especially shooters
You can look at the faggots profile every single time and he’s on PC from some third world country with aimbots and cheats with 0 friends and followers >>731557240
PvP players say PvP is too easy but forget to mention everyone cheats now
Also I know people who play games on normal mode even though they like siege and sports games only
It makes no sense. If you can’t have fun with a single player game go to the gym or something, oh wait you can’t because you’re a weakling in real life who cheats and that’s the only reason you play ONLY PvP and never mix it up.

>>731579736
You perfectly explained why playing PvP against PvE players in an MMORPG is the saddest shit ever.

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>>731581725
its because every single one of these cretins, even the ones that say they want to PVE, want the ego satisfaction of the inherent unfair qualities of combat these games provide, extraction shooters allow all the gayest retards that populate online games to pretend nothing is their fault while having ego satisfying moments that are provided by unfair asymmetrical engagements, free stats in the form of gear so you can run into people with no chance but feel like youve done something good, this disgusting mentality is held by both PVE and PVP players of the worthless extraction shooter genre, people that play this shit are shameless fucking losers

>>731586669
>Not to mention the moment a rare item shows up
How would anyone know what you just looted?

>>731586669
>Not to mention the moment a rare item shows up, everyone turns into a bunch of spastic monkeys fighting over a banana, which ends up cascading through the playerbase as they turn into paranoid murderhobos.
Seeing that most like to model themselves as a second job these days you can see why this might be a trend. When you are watching the equivalent of several days worth of effort going up in smoke you'd be paranoid too. Wagies and gamer dads are pretty much cut from games that follow this logic.

>>731574438
>then you see wiggle video and lose interest in playing multiplayer.

not just MP in tarkov but all multiplayer FPS games.
especially when there's discovery of direct memory access (DMA) cheat hardware, there is absolutely no security within the player's client. did the client get given the locations of items and players by the server? the developer has to understand that the cheating player knows it the moment the computer does. every single fucking thing has to be kept and managed on the server, including when and where the locations of things become known, IF the player is to be LIMITED in their ability to cheat.
multiplayer is fucking dead to me.

>>731578639
I posted the second post you quoted and I purely play PvP games bro but that's the reality of it, specially in MMORPGs.

>>731556393
Non meme answer: it gives people that like MMOs a similar experience in a non-mmo game. All my friends that stuck with Arc Raiders are literally ex-MMO players. They like building a character and loading for a raid boss, or if they want they can load out for PVP. They grind levels, farm for loot, and look for rare drops. It's just enough action and gun play to not be an RPG, but also you need to have leveled up gear to compete. That's the true answer.

>>731586983
That's especially noticeable in sea of thieves. The dedicated PVP mode is dead because nobody actually wants a fair fight.

>>731587136
>companies putting out meme bandaids like Battleeye and EAC that do more harm than good
>when the cheat devs themselves run off a subscription model that puts them on par with the highest rolling WEGS in terms of sheer monthly takings alone
Add into this the chink mentality of winning at all costs and you have the perfect formula for free money. Sun Tzu never liked a loser who didn't use every trick in the book to get ahead.

>>731587293
>That's especially noticeable in sea of thieves. The dedicated PVP mode is dead because nobody actually wants a fair fight.
I heard the devs themselves were never fans of the Alliance servers that PvEfags used to draw up before the actual mode came out. Must've been like pulling teeth when the entire loop is based around being a nigger on the open seas.

>>731567441
MW2022's DMZ would've been more fun if the AI wasn't so fucking overtuned. the AI was more of a threat than other players half the time

>>731587575
Back in 2024 the amount of scuttling ships was at an all time high. The people that weren't interested in lopsided fights just denied the fight entirely.

>>731556393
It's a schizo genre just pick one or the other. The novelty will wear out in a few years

>>731579225
WoW is PVE by default now but you can turn PVP on and off. originally it had like a 10 or 20% exp bonus
so guess what? people went onto the forums and reddit to bitch that they were getting ganked with the PVP mode on and that PVP was happening out in the open world while they were trying to do dailies
it was fun at first though, running around that vulpera desert as a DH with some other allies and just attacking all horde we saw

>>731582236
most team based non hero shit PVP multiplayer FPS games

>>731556393
Cheaters.

>>731579679
ANY game involving defeating human players invariably devolves into metafagging, that's just how human combat works and has always worked. You don't fault a chess player for memorizing every possible move for the first 10 turns, you'd get rightfully mad if your party member in counter strike hasn't memorized every map's sightlines, it's ultimately the same for "PvPvE" games and just anything that involves hostile humans in general, PvP will always contaminate everything else if it's allowed to mix.

>>731587402
>>companies putting out meme bandaids like Battleeye and EAC that do more harm than good
if these things actually did what they're supposed to there would at least be that, but most times they don't even manage their actual function.

the core fault is always going to be the actual game server and client code, where the game server ends up leaking too much information to the client, and then the client user can create cheats (to sell) from that information.

these companies have to stop fucking leaning on third parties to fix their first party problems for them.
FIX YOUR FUCKING SERVER/CLIENT CODE.

>>731558785
>RDO was exactly like this and they never once bothered to give it the same level of treatment that GTAO got
Still makes me laugh sometimes when you had fags organizing all kinds of shit like RPing, trail rides, fight clubs, street parties etc only for everyone to get strafed and DDOS by some wild clan that started loading in. The game barely ran when you maxed out the player counts to the point where other sections suffered heavily as a result. Events not kicking off, animals refusing to spawn and even the pedestrian AI dropping off a cliff. When you load into a not chink infesting session on PC via mods it's a night and day difference in terms of how the world maps itself out.

It really seemed like Rockstar was trying to bruteforce the two sides to coexist as a means of padding out their numbers. While making one of the more retarded attempts at a progression system that I've seen to date. None of it made a lick of sense and seemed more like an attempt at putting virtual thumbscrews on you after years of pouring over metrics pulled from GTAO. Progression is heavily based on time, payouts were beyond shit while the anemic set of ingame items would cost a small fortune. You had people engaging in all kinds of sidehustles like farming fish, duping corpses and waiting out timers in an attempt to bypass the hard limits.

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It's so funny that people get mad when I pop them haha. Throwing out slurs and shit because I just took their loot HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>731558785
Agreed, it's why I've never liked the idea of MMORPGs. Competitive multiplayer and role-playing are fundamentally at odds with one another. Multiplayer is just a race to the bottom for players to find the most optimized sweatiest tryhardiest strategies and builds, and throw everything else to the wayside. This is just fundamental to the human condition, and you can't have actual proper roleplaying when there's any competition involved.

>>731588090
>people went onto the forums and reddit to bitch that they were getting ganked with the PVP mode on and that PVP was happening out in the open world while they were trying to do dailies
I saw this firsthand back when there were pvp servers (the way you describe it, seems that's no longer the case), it was pretty funny. Nigga if you dont want to die then just play in the PVE servers.
the one true bullshit was when people would repeatedly kill neutral NPC quest givers

>>731569574
because BF6 hates linux and hates mobos without secure boot

>>731583287
you are doubling down on your cope. just accept that someone killed you with the same ease just like you would kill a mob. you are not that special

>>731588660
no one with a free loadout cares albeit

>>731556393
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqXXz5BOBFg

>muh world pvp
>it happens
>it's so bad blizzard had to intervene and cut it short in fear of playerbase quitting the game
You can thank level 60 rogues for being the baseline for all nigger classes in pvpve.

>>731558064
>automatic fleshlight so it jerks them off whenever they kill another player

I'm doing this.

It always ends up unfun and unbalanced for one side or the other. Either you get shit like pvp only people doing cheap tactics/twinked to hell characters and stuff or pve characters having huge advantages that make pvp not worth it as you get stomped ganged up on or ignored.

>>731589502
Most normal people don't care, but I still get called slurs when I handle some babies and send them back to Speranza.

>>731575445
>Helldivers 2
God forbid you have a faggot lobby with a faggot host.

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>>731556393
Because as other anons have mentioned these types of games inevitably create a split player base of PvE players who actually play the game, and PvP niggers who exclusively play to get free kills off of them, as focusing on PvE gameplay almost always puts you at an extreme disadvantage against other players.

>>731558785
/thread
Its this and nothing else.
Its an inherently flawed genre.
If this pisses you off its because you’re mad about being called out for being too coward to play strictly pvp games and would rather ambush people playing pve like some craven bandit.

>>731556393
name me 5 good pvpve games

>>731557240
There has never been a game in history capable of balancing gear drops from pvp that works for pve and pve drops that work for pvp.

the aggression matchmaking in arc raiders is the gayest shit to ever touch the genre. now I actually don't mind pvping against other "aggressive" players but the fact onions golem faggots can just be pacifist fairies refusing to even shoot back for enough games and get into actual carebear lobbies is an abhorrent betrayal of the game's very genre. the damage is permanent and WILL be copied by others which makes it worse.
guess it shouldn't surprise me considering the trooncore voice changer shit and streamer cock fondling but damn.

>>731588436
>make legit player experience awful just to have cheaters win anyway
large scale pvp games were an interesting experiment but they may as well be dead now
anything bigger than discord lfg and you'll get cheaters
it's over

>>731587069
People turning into shit-flinging monkeys over loot is why loot is obsfucated or per-player in most online games these days.

>>731590910
Its shit for the inverse too
>be pve player
>get shot at
>defend yourself
>get put in giganigger lobbies bc the system sees you damaged players

>>731590910
>bro you HAVE to shoot back and fight me even when you're low on ammo and armor and because i'm picking a fight when you're busy with a drone
kekkaroo

>>731556393
Are people really playing this shit without PvPing?

>>731591252
is camping an extract really pvping

>>731557310
You just proved his point.

>>731582236
Every fighting game.

>>731556393
>Why are people so averse to PvPvE games?
>one of the most popular game types on the market right now that isn't a gacha
>why are people averse to it?
really?

luv me pve games and modes
'ate pvp sweatyfags
simple as

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>>731590910
>Matchmaking based off playstyles instead of just W/L or K/D/A

Not sure what to think about that
On one hand what makes PvPvE enjoyable is facing diverse playstyles you have to adapt to and this like all the rest are abuseable as fuck.

On the other, the idea of each playstyle having its own mmr as a singularity to find the ultimate adderall zoomer, the worm, the HUNT sniper, the rat king, the team of redditors etc sounds peak

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>>731557240
>>731581517
>>731591397
>>731558785
>>731574029
>>731581190
>>731579691
>>731584529
>join game with pvp enabled
>agree to be killed by other players by playing such game
>"NOOOOOOOO STOP KILLING ME"

lul

>>731569226
he do be pretty based doe

>>731571807
for what reason

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ITT:

>>731591252
Hunt has a surprisingly doable pacifistic solo rat build for grinding hunters.
That said thats a game where its only good when you're shit and a balance mess of fundamaental design flaws when in good ranks, like every other extract shooter.

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>rollslopper having the audacity to call this "pvp"

>>731581725
This, no clue why these guys play a game where pvp is a major selling point and then get mad when people actually pvp and don't want to be all buddy-buddy with every single person they encounter. Makes no sense. You have retards like this >>731576863 who act like there are no alternatives that are pve only. Whenever you make a suggestion like Helldivers 2 for example, they come up with some bullshit nitpick to why that game is not a real option, like this guy >>731590564

The fact that people can't even handle the most low stakes PvP anymore is really demonstrative of the huge generational gap in masculinity. The average Gen Z or Alpha is the most submissive little pussy in the world.

>>731592141
I see players vsing players. It's pvp, just bad pvp.

>>731581725
>You'll never catch these people in any PVP game where you and your opponent are on an even playing field
The fuck do you mean, everyone is on an even playing field in Arc, the free loadout guns are better than the legendary guns.

You're just a little pussy faggot who's mad at everyone because you failed at life.

>>731592237
Funny you blame the youngins for this when it's almost always the casual dads who complain about this stuff. The kids all played/still play Battle Royale games so they're usually the sweaty pvpers in these types of games.

>>731557479
That's called gitting gud anon.

>>731557240
This. You play PvPvE shooters so you can third party people you lose to in counter strike.

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>>731591732
>move away from camping spot
>pvp stops for some reason

>>731573740
>Turns out you can in fact just chop off the PvP part and have a good game
Not if you actually want a challenge. PvE is braindead easy. But that's all that you can handle, I understand.

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>got killed right when I was trying to extract
PvE only mode when?

I dont get it

Didnt Runescape solve the PvE + PvP co-existing problem?

>>731592615
have you come out to your family as gay yet

>>731592237
arc raiders don't care because pvpers get put in their own queue

>>731577998
I WILL NEVER not want to shoot that ASUIE FUCK in his FACE for crying about Mosins being too good vs chads. That fucking FAGGOT ruined the Mosin and I WONT EVER FORGET!!!!

>>731556393
>would enjoy playing group oriented PVE games
>very specifically do not want to touch cheating cesspit of "PVP" games
>wow why don't you want to play newest shitty flavor of the month PvPvE?
gee I fucking wonder.
if I wanted to play PVP shit I would play an actual PVP oriented game. And I wouldn't touch that shit since I got it all out of my system 15-20 years ago when it was actually fun.

>>731592640
There is no co-existing problem, pve players need to grow a pair. Their weakness of character is embarrassing.

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>>731592658
I only like traps so I'm straight
I'm not going to try to explain some out of touch boomers how traps aren't gay

>>731577998
>There were people bitching about free loadout because "it can kill someone who grinds all day", just kill pvpniggers
So you hate PvP players because they rightfully care about game balance and you're too much of a mongoloid to realize they're right. Gotcha.

>>731557240
its called PvPvE, its pvp with the e tacked on the end, the core is pvp

>>731592738
>I only like [MALES BTW] so I'm straight
Uh huh.

>>731592738
liking traps is gayer than just liking dudes

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>friends try to turn my trios into daycare
I WILL slide, I WILL slime out the opps, I WILL call them brown irl as I am knocking them out, I WILL have a giggle

>>731592141
>lands the parry
>dodges the unsheathe R2 with pure spacing
>gets the riposte
raw skill in 500ms chinese ping

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>>731592237
Because these games somehow manage to make winning feel hollow and losing draining.
You can never provide an actual reason why i should play your shit Vampire of Joy

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>>731592852
>>731592853
Whatever you guys are stupid
I'm confident in my heterosexuality so I'm not going to argue with you

>>731592937
>The post
>The image
You proved his point

>>731592970
You won't argue with us because deep down, you know that you are wrong.
I've already won here.

>>731592937
>make winning feel hollow and losing draining
That isn't the game, that's just you. The problem is your defective brain.

>cheesed the pve with youtube
>too bad for real pvp videogames
OOOOH IM INVADIN

>>731592237
after you play cod4 or bad company 2 for hundreds of hours this sort of shit just stops being fun(there's a reason why you only find literal children/teens in PVP game lobbies). Even worse with the enshittification over the last 10 years where everything has some awful garbage BATTLEPASS mission grind bullshit attached. It's just not fun.

>>731592937
>You can never provide an actual reason why i should play your shit
The fundamental drive of a healthy heterosexual male should be to prove himself to be superior of his peers. You're either mentally ill or you've long since realized that you will never be able to be superior to any of your peers because you're an effete little pussy. Games shouldn't coddle you with PvE. You should have to wallow in it until you kill yourself.

>>731588434
the purpose of chess is to metafag thoughever, it's the only thing you consider before you make your next move. this is closer to those shit eating spergs that play professional warhammer or mtg and either end the game before a move is made because the other guy literally can't put anyone on the field on turn 0, or you can technically just sit at the table for 48 hours and there's no rule against it.

>>731579679
git gud

>>731593043
No its clearly the combination of the game and the genres community.
Ask yourself, how many people in pvp games you actually want to see again? To fight against again? Beyond just the brief rush of dunking on someone twice. If you can summarize your pvps playerbase as "Bots that trashtalk" then its not worth playing.

>>731593267
The fundamental drive is survival instincts, repeated habits and an arbitrary drive for self improvement and validation.
There is absolutely nothing to be gained in the latter from playing games in general.
You have deranged emperor syndrome if you believe whatever rank you have is remotely worthy of any superiority complex, for you are still trash compared to someone else and forever will be.
These games rely on the self destructive ratrace to a fictitious badge of honor that nobody will care about because the communities are always filled with those trash in spirit and mind.

Again, you have not provided a single good reason to play pvpve

>>731594147
>Beyond just the brief rush of dunking on someone twice
shitter behaviour

>>731581308
These devs left to make Remnant. Not as strong aesthetically and graphically as old hunt anyway but certainly decent gameplay loop. Unfortunately the guy simply had to have his cake and eat it too
>Souls-like looter-shooter indie

>>731557240
>playing against predetermined and setups you can cheese is le hard
shitter post
You are old and decrepit.
>>>/tv/
Here, a board better suited for people your age.

>>731592150
Helldivers 2 is NOTHING like arc raiders, YOU are a retard.

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>>731592789
>bitchbaby is mad I can headshot him before his laser m4 has a chance to obliterate my torso
get good and learn some situational awareness or keep dying screaming, faggot.

>>731591926
I think some actual schizo spams it all day all the time and was even caught massively self replying and spamming on reddit.
Dude is some actual mental case

>>731556393
Because it pushes every kind of player that isn't going to get along into the same sandbox.

Players that like PVE and want to relax either get spanked by sweats chasing them into their spawn points or running them down in the first five minutes of a match; or get ganked by the scummiest camping troglodytes the internet has to offer for most of the rewards they've been playing for.

Players that like PVP face constantly asymmetrical fights in the form of third-party ambushes and running into reckless carebears, meaning there is never an opportunity to play at an even level against an opposing team. You either play in the scum or get stomped into the dirt; god help you if you don't like the meta weapons and strategies because if you're getting matched with randoms they're going to absolutely DETONATE if you don't carry their burnout asses to a win.

Players that like both are having constant mini-panic attacks as they have to switch between quietly farming way too easy ass enemies and getting shat on by PVP-only gank squads, some of which aren't even playing the objective as they try to boost the viewership of their 3 or 4 concurrent watcher stream (they all have it open on the other monitor).

Lets see, a bunch of them use an inventory based progression that causes you to lose your stuff when you die which means you either play with pointed sticks for fear of getting your stuff smoked or you're constantly in the hole from taking good gear in.

Lets see what else, single time skill-based matchmaking almost 100% precludes you from making serious friends unless you hit it off in the first 10 minutes of a match, because the odds of you noticing each other playing another game later is almost zero.

Balance is constantly being fucked with to appease the 'hardcore pro' players which at best makes game-play inconsistent, at worst, it exacerbates the existing disparity in play as numbers are tuned more and more to suit sweats.

Need I go on?