One side goes around lying, dooming expeditions and plotting to genocide Lumiére's people, while the other side is just vaguely problematic.This is like betraying all your friends and siding with the ascians in FF14. If you picked Verso's ending, you are a traitor to the Expedition and deserve to be court martialed for irreversibly destroying the world to benefit the demiurges. Lune wants to live.
Maelle needs to give birth to 15 children
just paint them in a different canvas
>>733114840Painting citizens don't have souls and are just NPCs, so rescuing the only human with a soul, Maelle, is the only important factor. Do you get all upset when you need to turn off a Super Mario video game because when you turn off the game console it will kill bowser and princess peach and toad? Insanity.
>>733114840>What type of ending choice is this?An obvious one.
Why should Verso have to live an unending life of torment being puppeteered by the painters. He is a coward who made choices at the expense of others but in his shoes you would do the same thing.His biggest mistake was letting Gustave die. If there was anyone who could find a compromise to the issue at hand it would’ve been him, and he likely could have convinced Alicia to leave the canvas on her own because he would never let her waste away inside the canvas like she chooses to do in her ending
>>733115082>>733114949You are completely missing the point of the game.What is it called?>EXPEDITION 33What is the purpose of the EXPEDITION 33?>SAVE LUMIÈREIs Lumière saved in Verso's ending?>NO, IT IS IRREVERSIBLY DESTROYED ALONGSIDE WITH ALL GESTRALS, EVEN THE CHILDRENIs Lumière saved in Maelle / Alicia's ending?>YES.It is that simple. There is no rubbish about Lune and Sciel and Robert Pattinson never having been real people. This is a cope. The Canvas is their world, they want to live, they are endowed with the gift of a soul because they have moral agency. Tolkien himself had a personal crisis because when he wrote the orcs, he wrote that it was justified to just murder them, even though they had capacity for moral agency (and thus, they have souls). The people in the Canvas feel, think, have desires and can act morally or immorally. They were gifted with a soul, and frankly, they are far better people than the neurotic gods of their world who want them all erased over a family feud.The people in Lumière fight literal gods to survive. They deserve to exist.
>>733115368>they are endowed with the gift of a soulproof?
>>733114840I started this game with the goal of saving LumiereI am ending this game with the goal of saving Lumiere.
>>733115193>His biggest mistake was letting Gustave dieIt was on purpose, Maelle would never abandon her brother / boyfriend / father figure. Verso was LOCKED IN to commit genocide. He was in hurry to max out the gaslighting bars with the entire expedition, then betray Lune and Alicia, take control of the expedition, and commit a mass suicide-homicide. He was possessed by this. Even his Axon is just his dad trying to tell you that Verso is full of shit,a compulsive liar, and that he would betray you. Verso's ending is the Chaos Ending of Elden Ring, except in a world that is filled with beauty and will to live.
i bet 100% its just the laziest sitting there at a menu of 3 options kind of ending like 3 buttons for deus ex like it isnt the laziest shit possiblefags still trying to shill this turbo slop with AI enemies and lowest effort asset flips
>>733115649>betray aliciahe saved alicia
>>733115649I know it was on purpose. He did it because he was worried that she wouldn’t leave the canvas with him inside, but it ended up having the opposite effect where no one she had a deep connection with was there to actually try and talk the situation out. Everyone was my way or the highway, but Gustave would have never let her knowingly rot away in the canvas but he also cares immensely for the people of the canvas so he would have put his energy into finding a compromise rather than forcing 1 outcome or the other
>>733115720saar please learn english before partaking in online discussions
>>733115368>Is Lumière saved in Maelle / Alicia's ending?No, it's just given a little longer to exist. Once Alicia dies in the real world that canvas is toast.
>>733114840>One side goes around lying, dooming expeditions and plotting to genocide Lumiére's people*Sigh* Verso's sheer depth continues to filter people.
>>733115368But Verso is sad and is tired of this world's existence. Plus they're not as 'real' as his painter pseudo-family. That makes it okay to destroy a living world full of people trying to surviveIf I were a Lumieran and I found out my ancestors were brought into existence by a grieving mother, I'd be happy to die so she and her family whom I've never met can feel a bit better
>>733115458For catholics, it is proof that you have a soul if you can act morally, thus you are capable of sin and virtue. The gestrals have souls. The humans have souls. Even many of the nevrons show that they have souls, except the white nevrons and Francois, for they just follow their own programming.If the capacity to act morally exists within a person, that person "has a soul". Gustave is not a video game character, he makes autonomous decisions that are not programmed, he feels like everyone feels, and desires like everyone desires. He has a soul, and he uses his soul to try to save his city and his pupils.You know who also has a soul? Verso, and he uses his soul to hijack expeditions, backstab, lie, gaslight and commit genocide. He is the definition of evil, and the ultimate villain of the game.
>>733115368Correct. Now, here is a reminder. The ninth circle of hell is reserved for the worst of all sinners: traitors.
>>733115870she doesn't even need to die there. renoir or clea just step in and BTFO the already weakened shit paintress Alicia
>>733115870>it's just given a little longer to existSo the same as when they thought the Gommage would kill them all. Not all of them gave up then. Some of them even invented revolutionary technology that directly interacts with the functions of the canvas and the magical energy that makes it exist. Almost as if with enough time, they can overcome their constraints. Because they are alive and trying to save themselves. Hm
>>733115870Compared to being immediately destroyed? Done, I'll take the lesser ending.Thanks for conceding the debate.>>733115881>If I were a Lumieran and I found out my ancestors were brought into existence by a grieving mother, I'd be happy to die so she and her family whom I've never met can feel a bit betterI think those little children want to live and play with their chromas, they don't want to die. Only a few fanaticals who worshipped the Paintress would follow your death cult.
>>733114840The endings are just>Verso forces Maelle out>Maelle stays in the painting for a bit before Renoir (and possibly Clea alongside him) comes back to force her outEither way Maelle is forced out and the canvas is burned
>>733115903I can write a fictional character in a fictional story who acts with morality in the story. Does that fictional character have a soul? Do you think Harry Potter has a soul? If you open up ChatGPT and tell it to pretend to be someone with morals, does ChatGPT have a soul?You're conflating actual morality with the mere imitation of morality. The painted citizens are just depictions of people, not actual people. They are philosophical zombies.
>>733116063>Thanks for conceding the debate.I'm not debating you, I don't really have any dog in this race. Lots of people are satisfied with another extra day to live, especially on already borrowed time. It's not unreasonable to consider the extra years bought in Alicia's ending a success. I just wanted to know if you considered that angle.
>>733115857>SAAAR YOU DONT UNDERSTAND 2 DEEP 4 UU !1111
>>733114840Yeah I chose Verso’s ending.
>>733114840>while the other side is just vaguely problematic.I'm 67 what the fuck does that word mean again? Wasn't problematic when there were no niggers or something?
>>733116135fuck off bastard bitch
>>733116381 ;)
>>733115082I cried when my memory card got corrupted and all my Chao got deleted But I still went with Verso
>>733115193>>733115839The saddest part about Gustave is not only the fact that he is a self sacrificing guy who died for nothing, but his death actively prevented any kind of a happy ending for anyone.
is this the most divisive "ending choice" in video game history? People get pretty heated arguing about it.
>>733116168You are moving goal posts.>Do you think Harry Potter has a soul?In his world, he definitely has a soul, unlike the castle where he studies. He is capable of good and evil. He is endowed with moral agency, and he makes decisions. The book Harry Potter could be the author telling us of the adventure of a real wizard.
>>733114840A pointless one, the canvas is doomed either way>Maelle will either die or escape the canvas just before she dies>Either way Renoir will erase the canvas and Verso's ending will happen with minor changes> Sandfall made a ton of endgame content and free DLC to keeping you playing and not erase the canvas, also, wants you to have fun (just like Esquie expreses every time he has the chance)The real final choice is between stop painting/ playing or not
>>733116626There is nothing divisive. One ending is literal genocide, the other is just ungrateful but good.
Whoever picked the Verso ending should have gotten his save file deleted and forced to start from the beginning of the game since that's all they chose to begin with.
Gustave would've found a compromise. Verso is a little bitch.
She could just repaint all her little friends, they're replaceable, her family isn't.
>>733117373t. Yoko Taro
>>733118027Mental gymnastics, but a tacit admission of guilt for genocide. I'll take this as a victory.The Verso ending is just inexcusable, safe for the game trying to tell you that you are a good person for choosing it. If you took the Verso ending, you are probably vaxxed too.
>>733114840You're absolutely right my friend.
>>733115909Very good point, anyone with a strong sense of morality will feel disgust towards Verso for this reason.
>>733117876I like to believe this. Makes it all the more tragic. The happy ending was possible but Verso fucked up.
>>733117373And whoever picked the Maelle ending should be forced to play Expedition 33 24/7 on their PC until they die of dehydration
>>733117876There is no compromising with Renoir though, I don't see why he would listen to Gustave?
>>733114840>your brother made a magic painted world that you can enter>all your family can do this its routine>your brother died and left your mother devastated>she fled into the magic world to make a fake family so she can cope>she is using her mana to animate these puppets>she will die if she doesn't leave>your father goes in to get her the fuck out>your sister throws your dumb cripple ass in to help him STOP PLAYING WITH THE PUPPETS AND GO EAT AND SLEEPAND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE THE BATHROOM!
Kid Verso, the very soul of the painting, indicates that he no longer wants to paint anymore and is tired.
>>733114840The issue with the ending is that literally everybody in Lumière is already dead. Renoir wiped them all. If the choice was "gommage everyone and maybe save Maelle" or "save everyone and maybe kill Maelle", or would have been much harder to choose.
>>733114840Got my vinyl soundtrack today, looks really good
>>733115082This is your brain on Marxism
>>733119545He asks us to help him save the painting from being destroyed and that he just wants everyone to stop fighting and be friendly again as well though. He's feeling despair because of what Renoir doing and therefore is ok with dying and his world being destroyed, that's not a happy ending. The happy ending is the world healing again.
Meanwhile VersoChads: "It's just the right thing to do"
>>733115448>Versochuds will insist this is the good ending
>>733119374If he proposed something that got Alicia to leave the canvas on her own and possibly come back to visit I don’t see why he wouldn’t listen to him. The real problem would still be Aline not wanting to ever leave and Verso not wanting to exist anymore.But considering that Gustave managed to invent something that activity manipulates the fabric of the canvas world I don’t see why they couldn’t find some way to grant everyone their wish with enough time and help
>>733115448Do you think Aline gives great blowjobs?
>>733114840Saving Lumiere is irrelevant. The important thing is making Verso and Maelle suffer as much as possible.
My biggest question with the ending is regarding Aline dissolving during Renoir's speech. Was that her leaving the canvas of her own will or just porting elsewhere in the canvas? I wouldn't be surprised if the vision Renoir shows them wasn't exactly a live feed view.
>>733115903>Even many of the nevrons show that they have souls, except the white nevrons and Francois>except FrancoisFrancois has a soul is literally the most tragic figure in E33
>tell your sister to move on >tell your sister to live in grief foreverdecisions decisions
>Last stand of Expedition 33.
>>733118962>Wanting your sister, whom you sacrificed your life to save, to not kill herself from living in a fantasy is inexcusableAre you a woman? Maelle barged into Verso's painting and wants to keep it going, even though the tiny part of Verso's soul left behind in the painting wants to leave.
>>733120031>the expedition is removed from the canvas>The last stand of expedition 33>music gets intense and Simon starts going all outPure unfiltered kino
>>733120031>Expedition 33 performs a counter
>>733120120>Verso saves Alicia from dying in a fire>Insists that she go back to the real world where she’s a monster instead of just letting her chill in canvas where she’s hot and has friends Why is he so inconsistent
>>733120317The tiny part of Verso's soul doesn't know any of that, considering he made the painting when he was a kid. Still, why the fuck would he want his little sister to kill herself in his childhood painting?
>>733120120>>733120317Painted Verso is not the same person, he did not save Alicia, he's just been told that real Verso did it.
holy shit this whole thread made not want to play this
>>733120489So he’s allowed to kill himself but she isn’t? The hypocrisy is astounding
>>733120647Why are you even in this thread if you haven't played the game you fucking mouthbreathing retard?
>>733120528Not quite he's been painted with the knowledge that "he" saved alica but he has no memory of ever doing so.I'm honestly surprised that none of the painted family didn't lose their minds at all/sooner since they have things painted into them they never experienced.Painted Verso makes a point to say he "knows" everything in the Verso drafts and he "knows" what real Verso did as a kid even though he was painted as an adult and never actually had a childhood.
>>733120647This thread is for Maelle’s Game enjoyers, please leave
>>733120684Because he’s a brown anti-e33 schizo who has an intense hateboner for the game
First of all we don't know if Alicia eventually does leave the canvas in her ending, it's open ended.And even if she doesn't that's not a suicide, she lives an entire life in the canvas, that's not suicide that's just making a choice that shortens your life span.
>>733120528He still views Maelle the same way real Verso viewed Alicia. Still, the fact that Verso's soul wants to leave is justification enough to warrant Verso's ending as the correct ending>>733120684He didn't "kill himself", he sacrificed his life to save Alicia. Meanwhile Maelle wants to kill herself in her brother's childhood painting.
there is no right ending you morons, to side with someone is to be a villain to the other. personally i still prefer sacrificing the painting for the opportunity for Maelle to face reality and find meaning within it and give Verso's soul some rest PLUS proper healing for the parents/Clea
>>733121090The right ending is the one where Lune lives
>>733121090Just because you're a moral relativist doesn't mean I have to be. I think there are correct moral choices and Maelle and friends are the good guys.
>sacrifice your life to save your sister from a fire>in response she not only throws away the life you gave her to rot away in fantasy she also forces the last piece of your soul to live forever in torment for her own amusement instead of moving onAlicia is a very well written teenager right down to her being entirely selfish in her choices
>>733121090>there is no right ending you morons>Proceeds to list all the reasons why the Verso ending is the right ending
>>733121090>be a villain to Netanyahu, Verso and StalinI can deal with these odds.
>>733121383oopsie.but seriously, i think you could reason for Maelle's ending if you want because all your cherished friends are alive and all and you could even say its a more ethical decision since you're saving a bunch of people that were fighting for the right to live the whole game but yeah.
If it were me in the situation I would go with maelle, but logically we can all tell that Verso was doing what’s right. He’s the hero that we don’t want
These threads cant possibly be real people
>>733122661Elaborate
>>733121819You could only make that argument if the painting's safety was assured in Maelle's ending. Since it isn't, it's just delaying the inevitable, whilst further damaging Maelle's psyche for when she eventually gets forced out by her family.
>>733114840The characters in this game are so fucking ugly
>>733115881>Verso is sad and is tiredLmao what a bitch
>>733122661Maelle’s game sold over 5 million copies and you’re surprised people talk about it?
>>733115368>What is it called?>>>EXPEDITION 33This retard would prefer the game be titled Spoilers: Ur Inside a Painting 33
>>733115870>why do we have doctors, they just give people a little longer to exist. Once they get old they'll die anyway
>>733122843>forced out by her familyAlicia’s family don’t care about her. Source: Verso’s ending
>>733123198people don't play turn based filth
>>733123669>Soulless being chooses the ending with the most soulKino?
>>733120008>NOOOOOOO YOU'RE NOT GRIEVING THE RIGHT WAY YOU HAVE TO COME BACK OUT HERE AND LET ALL OF US BLAME AND RESENT YOU AND MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE SHIT STOP WANTING A HAPPY FUNCTIONAL FAMILY AND COMMUNITY
>>733121365Maelle doesn't owe anybody anything. She's free to live her life the way she wants to, and she's told this by her own sister in spite of the fact she wants to erase the canvas. Clea is the most pragmatic member of the family who actually respects the decisions her family makes and doesn't try and selfishly tell others what to do, even if she doesn't like what they're doing.
>>733122843Nobody lives forever. That's no reason to needlessly cut lives short and deny them the gift of life for as long as possible.
Verso was right and you're basically retarded if you don't agree
>>733124846Shalom
>>733114840If you picked Maelles ending then you would:-side with Madara Uchiha and live in his Infinite Tsukuyomi-side with Uta and live in Utas world-side with Dr. Maruki and live in his reality-believe that being a drug addict is ok
>>733114840Anyone who chooses Maelle has just not learned to accept loss. Verso is dead and Maelle needs to leave the painting and move on.
>>733115082You don’t even know what a soul is. The capacity for existence that you, I, and everyone in the painting possesses is a soul.If a certain set of conditions are met you exist, that is your soul.
>>733120121>there are people that actually hate this game
>attributing souls and lives to paintings>caring more about painting than actual human beingsIf you picked the canonical bad endings, you're an NPC. Simple as.>>733115368>You are completely missing the point of the game.Actually retarded. The point of the game is succession and legacy, you know "for those who come after". Renoir, the man who did no wrong, just wants his wife and kid to stop being retarded drug addicts, killing themselves. You'd understand the correct ending if you had kids.
>>733125463>calls others npc>but refuses to acknowledge that the paintings have a right to exist too
>>733120684Verso was already dead. The imaginary characters died so Maelle could live
>>733114840> dooming expeditions> plotting to genocide Lumiére's people> you are a traitor to the ExpeditionAnon... they are not real people.Escapism is not good for your mental health.
>>733125281The soul is given to you by the God.Painters are NOT gods therefore their creations are soulless. They have no divine spirit
>>733125662Exactly. They’re imaginary friends for Maelle to play pretend while her own body rots away in the real world (if she were to never leave). It’s pure escapism for Maelle and Maelle alone. While all of her family who still care for her and dont want to lose someone else.Her mom had to realize this at the end too.
>>733114840The last thing maelle does is lie just like verso. Also no one plays mmo slop
>>733114840If you picked Maelle's ending you're either mentally ill or a woman.
>>733114840The Expedition isnt real.Alicia is
>>733125967Reminder the only person who ever hugs Maelle in this game is Gustave at mansion. In the Verso ending she’s all alone and watches her friends disappear while her cunt sister walks off and her retarded parents embrace each other.
It's poor writing. They forced a tragic ending.The game presents the painted people as people. So they are people. So destroying their world is genocide. That is just how the game presents things.So in order to make the Maelle ending sufficiently tragic for their forced drama they resort to cinematography, with making things black and white and have a jumpscare and presenting everything is fucked up. Where they have actually written things to be preferable to the ending where everyone is just fucking murdered.It's style over substance entirely. Poor writing.
>>733126813>waaaaahhh!! i wanted a happy ending!!
>>733127043Not an argument, just an ironically childish ad hominem attack. But yes, though unrelated, I did want a happy ending. Because you should care about the characters in a story and want a happy ending in practically any media. The alternative is wanting bad things to happy. For what? I ask although I know you don't have the capacity to answer.
>>733114840>>733115368The picture that ended the great debate.
The characters in the painting are not real. Theyre NPCs.Alicia was just engrossed with being in a virtual reality to escape the reality of the real world. It was best to destroy the painting/game so Alicia can cope within reality instead of escape it.Her disfigurement, her brother’s death, and her family’s trauma is all her fault and she chooses to escape reality than face it.Even when her own father essentially forgives her and just wants her back in the real world. Even her mom came to this realization at the end.Besides, it’s Verso’s painting.
>>733126813It's not poor writing. It's acknowledging that sometimes you have to make a difficult big boy choice that can't please everyone.If you had the option of an ending that wraps everything up in a nice bow with no ambiguity, then it would've been fucking lame and boring.
>>733127504"They're NPCs"No, they have souls and will to live to the same degree as the painters, so they are real. The circumstance of their birth DOES NOT matter, you never watched Pokémon Movie 1?This is just called bias of the strongest, classic might makes right and victim blaming. These people are literally fighting a sisyphian struggle against a bunch of mentally ill, unstable and evil gods in order to remain alive in the shitty world these have created. You play as the Expedition 33 that departs from Lumière to stop these gods. Why IN THE WORLD would you pick the ending where you destroy the city irreversibly and go further beyond, destroying everyone else too? How in the world is that not the most digusting betrayal imaginable?Boy, I'd hate to have any Versofag in any position of power whatsoever. It is the classic Stanford prison experiment. You are all indoctrinated into an us x them mentality after picking the same ending that a game over would achieve.It is so scary how people can adopt a mindset where they allow themselves to dehumanize others in order to justify violence and genocide.
>>733119875Gustave didn't invent that on his own, it was Aline who painted him with idea. Everything the Lumiere people did was puppeted through them via Aline. Gustave being painted by Aline would not even entertain the idea of leaving the painting.
>>733123669HOWEVER
>>733128081>Gustave didn't invent that on his own, it was Aline who painted him with idea. Everything the Lumiere people did was puppeted through them via Aline. Gustave being painted by Aline would not even entertain the idea of leaving the painting.We are reaching levels of gaslighting previously thought to be impossible. They are now creating new lore to cope with the fact they got succesfully derailed into killing everyone they set out to save and more.
Maellejunkies are making themselves look bad yet again.
>>733128348I think it's just jeffie indulging in his ephebophilia during his exileNot enough white kids to fuck since it's all Jews in israel so he has to shitpost about how his island was actually a great life alternative for his onaholes
>>733128307>Lumiere people are painted to stop the Gommage and create all manner of ways to kill Clea's creationsSo where was i wrong?
>>733116626It might be if people are still flinging shit on each other a year laterRegardless I gotta say Maelle's ending is the most well directed scene a video game has ever done
>>733116776>literal genocideIt's not.They're already dead.>Muh gestral and grandiNo one literally cares stfu
>Anon chose Maelle ending and deleted game with save files right afterKek
>>733126813You forgot the part where Verso and Verso's soul are forced to persist against their will, effectively creating a Omalas situation where the happiness of the many is built on the prolonged suffering of one.Though I give you credit for not completely mischaracterizing the ending to make it look bad, something that weirdly can't be said about Versofags.
>>733127849The painting isnt real. It’s a VR game
>>733129248Ral Verso's soul is split on what to do. He feels like everyone he has painted should deserv to live but he is also tired (likely because Renoir and Aline's war takes a toal on him).That's why the player is the choice maker.>>733129280Do VR characters love, feel emotion, and have children (they babies and birth are not painted creations)?
>>733127337Notice how people who oppose Maelle's ending almost always have to either lie, misinterpret, or create head canon to make it sound worse rather than arguing against the moral dilemma as it's presented, while the people who oppose Verso's ending can argue against the actual facts.
Maelle fags think you are committing genocide any time you delete a Sims save.
>>733129514>Notice how people who oppose Maelle's ending almost always have to either lie, misinterpret, or create head canon to make it sound worseAnyone who picked the Verso ending was succesfully distracted from what is ultimately a very straightforward man x god story, and most likely is fully vaccinated.
>>733127504>Actually all the characters you spend the entire game following their journey, understanding their personalities, their stories, their pain and the triumphs and the entire emotional motivation for engaging with the story was all fake and meaningless and you're gay for caring in the first placeWhat shitty story you guys keep trying to push.
>>733114840you speak like a dawntrail-enjoyer
>>733128708>Stop the gommage by aiming to kill the person that's actually staving off their erasure because they literally have zero knowledge of the nature of their circumstances.It's fitting that Versofags adopted his propensity for lying and gaslighting
>>733128979>They're already deadAnd they can be brought back. They're only irrevocably dead when the canvas is erased.>B-B-BUT THEY WON'T BE THE SAME T-T-THEY'RE JUST COPIES Don't try to insert head canon, Maelle can fully restored the people as they were>>Muh gestral and grandi>No one literally cares stfuKys yourself
hahaha get fucked dumb simulation npcs
>cutscene plebs still shilling their D tier movie performances
>>733114840The expedition ISN’T FUCKING REAL. Verso doesn’t want to live in the lie his sister can’t let go of, it’s all just her not wanting to accept reality or try to move on and she’s willing to force him to exist in her little fantasy because she can’t face the truth. It’s literally this.
>>733130559The people you side with don't even believe that retard
>>733130401>everyone in the canvas is turned to energy>just stick them back together!so the teleportation question doesn't phase maelle enjoyers?
>>733130608there are more painters out there making paintings, don't you think they would stop if they thought they were committing genocide every time they dropped a painting into a puddle?
>>733131031False equivalence Try again
>>733131420YOUR ENTIRE WORLD IS GENERATED BY MY ASSYOUAREATOY
>>733115368The issue with Alicias ending is that the people of Lumiere die either way. When Alicia eventually dies outside the canvas, either the canvas ends, or Renoir destroys the Canvas. These people should never exist in the first place, Verso never painted humans. He made Gestrals, Esqie , Grandis etc. This is his canvas, then Aline shows up and creates Lumiere and its people. And then Clea shows up and spawns Nevrons to try and destabilize the canvas.
>>733114840If you picked Maelle you're a manchild that never learned to deal with depression and instead became a slave to it.
>>733131109We only know how these painters view the people in the canvas. None of them besides Clea views or treats them as lesser beings. Aline wouldn't have fought so hard to stave off the gommage if she didn't value the people as worthy of life.Renoir wouldn't have apologized to Verso on behalf of his entire family for the existential suffering he had to endure because of his creation, nor would he have listened to Lune and Sciel make their case and tell them they are right in their beliefs.Painted Verso doesn't believe he isn't a real person, nor anyone else in the canvas, he even had a lover who he vowed to bring back to life.And Verso's very own soul considers every living being as real people with real souls, and loves them all.Clea is the only member of the family that doesn't treat the painted people as equal to herself and twice over violates their free will to turn people into automatons to do her bidding, both cases don't actually rewrite the original person's mind or soul, it only controls it, and forces it to act against their will
>>733114840>This is like betraying all your friends and siding with the ascians in FF14.lmao, so it's like the thing that 99,9% of people have never played? Riveting analogy homo
>>733131938renoir did it more out of politeness than care, and Aline has gone mad with grief.
>>733119689Ah, a parasitic capitalcuck would insist on their intellectual property deserving equal or greater rights and preservation of life over actual people. I see what your retarded issue is now. People like you are why dunce caps and gulags were recommended.
>>733131982>asciansdoesn't fit either as they didn't create the world and keep it alive with their energy.
>>733131494Close, but the Toys in Toy Story are alive and possess a soul, and the entire story of those movies kinda relies on the audience seeing them as fully living people and, ya know, caring about their struggles and lives in a world where they are otherwise supposed to be inanimate playthings made for the amusement of higher beings.
>>733130108That only happened through real Renoir meddling. Aline was assisting them otherwise and that is why she was warning them with the countdown. Your media literacy is terrible
if you create a homunculus but it needs to be drip fed your blood every day to live, are you obligated to keep it going?
>>733130401why doesnt maelle just fully restore them in a new painting? thats no different from what happens after act 2
>>733132063Why would you show politeness to something you don't care about. You don't show politeness to an ant you step over. And Aline only makes herself weaker by committing so much chroma to keeping the people of Lumiere alive. If her only priority was to fend off Renoir's gommage and maintain her painted family and didn't care about anything else she created she'd have let him erase Lumiere and just focus on keeping her fake family. The entire gommage is the result of Aline caring about the people she gave life to, even though she basically doesn't know them. You can't just dismiss everything she does as just the ravings of a mad woman.
>>733131513Alicia's ending is arguably worse, because it puts the canvas at the mercy of an all-powerful, unstable "goddess".It's a quick, painless death, vs years of potential torment if they step out of line or oppose anything that goes against Alicia's perfect world.The only true losers in both endings are the Lumierians.
Verso ending is the only correct option and if you disagree you literally didn't understand the writing and got filtered by a video game.
>>733132598because your emotionally unstable daughter and wife are grieving over a goddamn painting?
>>733132306Warning them instead of, ya know, actually informing them of who their real target is. She could've painted literally anything onto the Monument, including literal messages telling them who to kill.
>>733132549Play the game
>>733132780I did
>>733132643>More head canonAnd Verso's ending is worse because her family are going to mistreat Maelle to the point she commits suicide anyway.See, I can make shit up too.
>>733132828then you should know that when the gommage takes them they die, unless its act 2 and maelle puts them back togetok why the fuck doesn't she just take those bits and make her own painting?
>>733132874>maelle suicideimplying that's bad
>>733132742That is what painted Renoir and painted Verso WERE doing before the Painted Verso fallout and alliance with Real Renoir. Keep up, media illiterate.
What is a person?
>>733132874>And Verso's ending is worse because her family are going to mistreat Maelle to the point she commits suicide anyway.Never happened. The entire point of Dessendres is that they love too much.
>>733132667And why would that matter to how he treats Verso? Especially since he was moments away from erasing him anyway.
>>733132914honestly the writers are the main problem because they made everything so vague that everyone has to headcanon shit.
>>733133008Whether the painted people are real or not, the game never truly clarifies. Leaving it to interpretation. The painted people not being real would make Gustave fake though.
>>733132914Because she is just manipulating the Chroma already within. She is otherwise going to have to actually learn to paint well and have her mother's similar life experiences to even come close to recreating them the same way.
>>733132937Yes, real good messaging from painted Renoir, massacring every expedition that steps foot on the continent and never explaining anything to anyone, and only tells Maelle to go back to Lumiere and slowly die off with the rest of her expedition. Clearly the brilliant tactical planning of Aline, really putting Renoir on the ropes there.
>>733133089The game very clearly establishes that they are not real and are just malleable Chroma that can be remolded over and over so long as the specific Painter has enough Chroma to do so.
>>733115368>There is no rubbish about them never having been real people.wow, it's almost like the game is quite literally about this conundrum and how not everyone feels the same about it...It doesn't matter which side you take, how right you think you are, or how wrong you think anyone who doesn't think like you is, the undeniable fact that not everyone will think the same is the entire point, you thinking one side(ANY OF THEM) is more right than the other in an absolute and unanonimous way, you missed the entire point.
>>733132914You can't just take chroma and put it onto another canvas, same way you can't take paint off of one painting and put it onto another. And as far as the in universe mechanics go, a person's chroma is their soul/essence, you can't just recreate a person and have it be the same, that's literally what painted Verso's entire existential crisis is centered around. Sciel even ponders this idea of recreating her husband, and she also admits she wouldn't after learning about how much it suffering its causing Verso.
>>733133089>>733133260The entire game is about the painted people and their struggle is the emotional core of 2/3 of the story.
>>733133260Painted and Clea and Simon literally exist to establish the exact opposite is the case
>>733133197That anon is right, just backwards with the events. The expeditions were actually created to kill the Paintress. The countdown was a warning to convince them to stop doing the Expeditions but they did not understand and Clea and Real Renoir were manipulating the people of Lumiere with lies, so she was being outflanked, especially when painted Verso betrayed her. Thus painted Renoir had to kill them so Aline could at least maintain dominance of the Chroma within the canvas so as to preserve it and potentially restore everyone from Lumiere once the war was won.
>>733133520Yeah, they are adversaries of the Canvas
>>733133662He isn't right because his claim is that Lumiere was painted to stop the gommage, which none of Aline's or painted Renoir's actions assist in doing at all.Nevermind the fact that Lumiere was painted before the Fracture even happened, and the gommage is meant to erase Aline's creations in the first place. Your putting the chicken before the egg here and arguing Lumiere was created in response to the gommage, which is factually untrue.
Its also not your fault if the all ending are unhappy and full of pointless suffering.Your choices are 1) Continue the painting to a doomed future where the painting and Alicia eventually dies.2) Immediately destroy the painting and save whats left of Alicia. Notice how both are awful. Which is less or more is being debated right now.There is no option for the painting to continue, while the Dessandre leave them alone and make peace with Versos passing outside the painting. Sandfall intentionally avoids this "all happy " ending, and this is on purpose. Insert art supposed to be thought provoking and not wish fulfillment French thing.
>>733133197painted renoir is pretty weird, but I guess it was kinda done as a small sacrifice for the greater good since if anyone got to the paintress act 3 happens. Aline was also probably too fucked up by that point to communicate properly as well, so even if she could explain the situation she couldnt.
>>733134280Its funny how genociding a city in FFX is the good and only ending
>>733134216Lumiere exist as living Chroma, they are literal mana keeping the canvas in existence and she created a barrier protecting against full gommage, so as the canvas itself could not be immediately wiped out. Expedition Zero also proves it. Painted Renoir and painted Verso were initially trying to help in telling them the Paintress is their friend until an Expeditioner named Julie decided she did not trust them after learning they were immortal and thus she caused a mutiny against them.
>>733115082Anon, neither of those characters have soul; its a videogame, they are all fake and so are you.Way to completely miss the point of the game you illiterate faggot
>>733115368>>733114840>Maelle, get off the Canvas, go to the bathroom and take a shit. NOW>Heey>BATHROOM AND SHIT NOW>Nooo>Go to the bathroom and take a shit! I can smell you!>Hang on, you know.>Go to the bathroom. I can smell you shitting yourself. Get off the canvas and go to the bathroom!>Not yet>GET OFF THE CANVAS! YOU'RE SHITTING YOURSELF>not yet...
>>733114840The strongest argument against Verso's ending is Verso himself. The strongest argument for Maelle's ending is also Verso himself.Verso deserves to suffer. He betrays his friends and family with the aim of killing everyone and everything just so he can die.He was also successful at the end of act 2. Maelle is a shitty painter so she can't actually properly recreate anything except those she knew very closely and even then it's questionable.The only argument for Verso's ending is that Aline, the source of the problem is the first place, will probably more directly kill herself shortly after it.>but what about RenoirBoth Renoir's were in the right. They prioritized their families over everything else and are only taking the violent choice after it's clear no other options will work. They do their best to ensure any violence is as quick and painless as possible and do not try to justify their actions. They know they are doing wrong for the right reasons. They are trying to drag their family into staying alive even if it has to be done with them kicking and screaming. It is unfortunately a futile effort.
>>733114840THE PAINTING? OH SHIIII-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!
>>733133197>painted renoir tries to explain>verso shows up and claims his dad has gone crazy/been brainwashed the paintress needs to die>verso's version lines up with what the expeditions already know, they side with him>the same shit happens just with more scheming and backstabbingHe's just saving everyone time frankly. Unless Aline suddenly decides to give in and leave before everyone dies that's all he has.
>>733115909Here's another reminder - Dante's Inferno is just Dante seething at people who slighted him once in his life. It's not canon, it's just fanfiction of a bitter incel. It has as much meaning to christianity, as my napoleon smut to real history
>>733119431NYOOOOOOOO I WANT TO KISS MY DOLLIES THEY ARE REAL TO MEEEEEEEE
>>733114840choosing Verso's ending is no more than ripping a sketchbook apart and giving your parents a slap to wake them up. that's why I chose it.maelle's one is way more sick
>>733115649>Verso was LOCKED IN to commit genocideWrong. He wanted to save Aline. The genocide was just a side effect of that.
>>733114840
>>733132342Yes, but you probably shouldn't have crated it like that in the first place.>but there was no other wayThen you know the cost going in. Take responsibility.
>>733115368>What is it called? >>EXPEDITION 33 Wong. It's called Clair Obscur: Expedition 33. Notice how Clair Obscur is first and Expedition 33 is merely a subtitle? That's because the expeditions are just the medium through which the real story about the Dessendres is told.>What is the purpose of the EXPEDITION 33? >>SAVE LUMIÈRE Wrong. It's to kill The Paintress and save Aline, even if they don't know it.Is Aline saved in Verso's ending? >YES.Is Aline saved in Alicia's ending?>NO.
>>733114840Maellefags would’ve hated Persona 5 Royal’s ending
>>733114840this game is very Clair and ObscurAlicia's ending is very ds1 linking the fire, prolonging the age of fire for a bit longer until another fracturing happens to the canvas and everyone in the canvas suffers againpersonally I like how one of the expeditioners' mottoes gets a new interpretation about grief "when one falls; we continue". the family has to continue living after the death of Verso for the sake of each other and for the sake of the departed. "for those who come after"
>>733116626Not really. It's just a handful of terminally online Aliciaschizos making hundreds of posts compared to hundreds of reasonable Versochads that have largely moved on making a post or two each.>>733130401>And they can be brought backWrong. Alicia isn't skilled enough to do that. She also doesn't have their chroma or know them well enough.>MaelleHer name is Alicia. Maelle is just the name she chose to affirm her schizo delusions about not being a burn victim. Calling her Maelle is equivalent to calling a tranny a woman.>can fully restored the people as they wereThen why doesn't she do that in her ending?
>>733137030
>>733137030Maellefags eternally BTFO
>>733123687>Alicia’s family don’t care about herRetard. Renoir obviously does. Clea does too as evidenced by the endless tower. Aline is a mixed bag but I don't think she actively hates her.
>>733139364They're scat fetishists, that's what they're into
>i must go against my brothers wishes and suicide by living in a dream world forever even when he gave his life to save me from the fire and let me live>this is the good endingwhat causes this
>>733114840Verso is a necessary evil.
>>733126813How can you genocide them if they are already dead by the time you can make this decision?
>>733126813>muh happy ending
Was he actually the commander of expedition 0 or did Verso lie?
>>733127278>The alternative is wanting bad things to happy. For what?NTA but bad endings are kino.
>>733125061I don’t remember the part where stopping Maruki, Madara and Uta causes a mass genocide of innocent people that just want to live and have a future for themselves and their families
>>733141762>Marukihe brought people back to life, you selfishly defeated him and rekilled those people.
>>733120647>entered a thread about ending spoilers for a game he hasn't playedAre you okay?
>>733116009Anon, how are the paint people going to stop Renoir physically destroying the canvas, exactly?
>>733143205If that was an option he would've already done it. Either it physically isn't how it works or doing so would kill his family that are inside it.>what if he burns it once they dieThere wouldn't be any reason to. He's not going to kill everyone in the canvas out of spite.
>>733143450>he would have already done itHis wife and child’s souls were in there, and physically destroying it while that is a fact is unlikely to be good for them.
>>733143450>there wouldn’t be any reason toIf Aline isn’t dead while Alicia is, it’s stopping a problem before it starts again. If they are both dead, it’s removing a clearly destructive object from his family and preventing his or Cleas spiral.
>>733129857This is pretty much why I dropped this garbage in act 3I'd rather play sincere games
>>733114840Meh ending
>>733114840I think everyone besides Maelle and Verso is basically a puppet in her ending. Even though Verso betrayed them I don't think they'd be smiling and clapping like everything's normal at the concert.
>>733142442The people maruki created where imitations pf the actual ones. The people who died already died under the natural causes of the universe.Meanwhile the people from Lumiere are actively fighting to not be genocided by a demiurge forcing the world’s most painful therapy session via genocide.It would be more comparable if Yhaldabahot genocided humans instead of stopping Maruki
>>733114840>little girl who was forced to see her mother dissolve in front of her deserve to die because the Demiurge want to force Therapy Session on her little sister>it is Le good to genocide and make suffer innocent people if it is for a therapy session
it's been proven that both her parents and clea love alicia, while it'd be impossible for maelle to have those relationships in the painting because>she knows it's all fake>she can't be their equal given she is basically their god now
>>733114840I can't believe that the "escapism is bad + at the end the family is able to grieve together the death of their beloved son and brother" can filter people so much that leads them to believe that both endings are "tragic", you can tell most of the people who played this baguette oui oui JRPG has never touched an JRPG because these kinds of themes are the bread and butter of the genre.
>Alicia only revives the white NPCs of LumièreWhat did she mean by this
>>733147678Would FF Tactics 2 make people seethe instead of being considered a masterpiece if it was released today?
>>733147750>despite being just the 9% of Lumiere population, the “black” people commit 90% of the not-nevron/gommage crimes
>>733147408>le innocent peopleThe're not people lol
>>733114840>Make Maelle confront the harsh reality that is life to give her a chance to live just like her brother wanted?>NO I DON'T WANT THAT>I want to let Maelle die in a false dream never allowing her to grow past her trauma and guilt!
>>733148221facing reality is very chud coded
I don't know how literally anybody got to Maelle's ending, saw painted Verso absolutely fucking miserable in that concert hall, knowing that the last piece of Verso's soul is essentially stuck painting forever "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" style, and recreating all of the NPCs in the world who died again, only to have a fucking dramatic piano sting with the game screaming at you "YOU ARE STUPID", and people still prefer that ending. Total insanity and proof that da gamers have a long way to go before understanding even the most basic story
>>733147871>>733148221>the little orphan girl who just saw her mother die in front of her deserve to die because MHU TRAUMA AND MHU GUILT>the inventor striving to save to day and not willing to let his girlfriend dying in vain deserve to die because MHU GUILTY AND MHU TRAUMA>exterminate the whole population >YOU MUST FACE YOUR TRAUMA AND GUILT!>*let a lot innocent die in a storm of nevron*>THIS IS ALL FOR YOUR SAKE>*cut innocent sexy witch girl in half*>YOU MUST GET OVER IT OR ELSE YOU ARE A CHUD MANCHILD!Maybe next time try to have a therapy about facing Traumas and guilts WITHOUT GENOCIDING A WHOLE RACE OF INNOCENT PEOPLE
>>733148647DudeMaybe people just don’t want to side with the people who want to slaughter a whole population of helpless beings that just want to live
>>733119431>AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE THE BATHROOM!not yet
>>733148648>>733148721They're literally not real
>>733128081Aline didn't paint Gustave. Nobody did, he was born from people who were painted by Aline. Everyone you see in Lumiere is a birth from Aline's creations, but not directly created by Aline; the only exception to this is Maelle. All of Aline's original people (aside from her versions of her painted family) were gommaged ages ago.Gustave's lumina converter is an entirely original idea that HE came up with. If it was Aline's idea, she would have had any of the previous expeditions use it. All of the painters who become aware of it are genuinely shocked upon finding out it exists and that it's where they're getting their power from. Painted Verso even realises how important it is.
>Humans>you are not real>you are a byproduct of the dreams of Azathot, who long time ago sought into slumber to escape from his pain and suffering>he must to get over all of this>so we ,outer gods as you called us, are going to painfully slaughter all of you in unfair, painful and cruel ways>it is all for the sake of awakening Azathot so he can realize he cannot live into his delusion and must grow up>Please understand, it is nothing personal but you are all going to die…you weren’t even real to begin withHow can VersoFags cope ?
>>733148836They believe they're real, that's enough.
>>733147309>The people maruki created where imitations pf the actual onesYou mean exactly like the Lumierians in Alicia's ending?
>>733147408>>733148648What level of ESL is this?
>>733116626it's "divisive" in the same way children wanting to eat ice cream for every meal and adults not wanting to do that is. Only mentally stunted people go for the maelle ending or fail to recognize that the world is not real / the harm maelle is doing to herself. the developers even hit you over the head with how bad her ending is in that final cutscene by framing it as a horror show.lets not forget that all lumierans are already dead at this point and to bring them back would be to create completely new people like what happened to lune and sciel
>>733114840Anyone who believes Verso's ending is the most moral is a deranged nihilist, which is most modern liberals sadly.
>>733114840Depends if you think paintings qualify as people
>>733114840Save your family is the right choice.
>>733151895I don't remember the dog
>>733152306How do you not remember Monoco?
>>733149248>painfully slaughter youRenoir wanted the Gommage, which is painless. Aline resisted him. So then Clea put in the fucking murderbots that gradually drained the painting of chroma.
>>733151895Why is Aline facing away with her eyes closed? What's wrong with her?
How would you feel if you were to get gommage'd right now? Do you think it would be fair to get wiped from existence because the gods from your world don't wanna play with you anymore?
>>733148647Seeing Verso, the compulsive liar, absolutely miserable for having to fulfill his promisse of playing the piano for his sister was the best part.>>733148648Versofags are so deep in the gaslighting they have realized that the only way their ending is acceptable is if they dehumanize those in the paintings.It is pointless to argue for the genocide, because these freaks are Stanford prison experiment guards. They are full in the power trip and believe Lune did not want to exist in the ending.>>733148836>>733151347Verso fags, riddle me this: did Lune want to exist?In what way Verso's ending is not different from simply reaching a 'Game Over' screen?Both achieve the same result.The circumstance of one's birth does not alter the fact they have moral agency and thus, are equally as alive as those who birthed them through the means of magic rather than biology.The biggest redpill about Versofags is that they are the majority of the population, and that they'd support all forms of holocaust because their main answer is 'group X is not as human', which is the standard justification for genocide, whether manifest destiny, the holocaust, the armenian genocide or the rape of Shanghai.Versofags need to be ashamed of themselves. They proved they were succesfully distracted.
>>733154536"fair" doesn't exist between gods and mortals, anon. There is no fairness to be found, it is all the whims of the gods.
>>733115193For sex with Lune’s feet of course
>>733154656Nice, so your response to a matter of morality is the barbarian retort (I am stronger, therefore fuck you).Ultimately, it all comes to this, doesn't it? You dropped all masks of morality and concede the weak must die for the whims of the strong.
>>733154656Sen. Armstrong got defeated therefore you are wrong.
>>733155046The weak, normally, banded together, can defeat the strong. You cannot defeat the gods, ultimately them giving your opinion even the chance to be voiced to them is their whim. Their existence is beyond your ability to influence except by their explicit consent.>>733155118See above. Also, Raiden LITERALLY proved Armstrong correct. Raiden WAS "The Strong" which is why he is named as a successor immediately after the fight, and then goes off to do crazed vigilante shit.
>>733155226Even if you go through this 'might makes right' perspective, the people of Lumière defeated the gods. They expelled Aline and Renoir from the painting. But they get stabbed in the back by Verso, who tries to take over the control of the world and start Third Impact.
>>733155404They were pawns in a god's game. If they expel Renoir and Aline, now Alicia is a new god. Hell, Verso can only end the painting because he gets the consent of the local demiurge, a fragment of the original god.
I don't give a crap about paint on canvas anymore than I care about Grok.
>>733154536>How would you feel if you were to get gommage'd right now?I wouldn't be able to feel, I'd disappear in like 2-3 seconds. Anything 4 seconds onward are irrelevent.
>>733154596>did Lune want to existShe did. The story is a tragedy for a reason.>In what way Verso's ending is not different from simply reaching a 'Game Over' screen? Because Aline and Alicia are saved.>The circumstance of one's birth does not alter the fact they have moral agency and thus, are equally as alive as those who birthed them through the means of magic rather than biology. I agree. The Lumierians deserve to live and are completely valid in fighting for that. Renoir also deserves to have his wife and daughter live and is completely valid in fighting for that. Neither side is wrong, but one side must fail unless Aline and Alicia stop being retarded and get rid of the reason for the conflict.>that they'd support all forms of holocaust because their main answer is 'group X is not as human',Jews aren't human though. And that's not the justification for Verso's ending since the Lumierians are human. The justification is simply that my family matters more to me than a million random people and I would kill them all to save my family.
>Be a child with cool painting powers.>Create a whimsy fantasy world to have fun and let a little bit of you there because that what art is.>Die in the real world.>What little part of you alive inside the canvas has to helplessly watch as your grieving family destroy your childhood and themselves by adding their own edgy shit.>They even create a fake you>Fake you realizes all of this>Fake you wants to stop seeing his family destroy everything>the options are burning everything now for the chance of letting them move on or allow your little sister rot inside your creation while shitting all over your more cherished creations.Esquie, François, the Gestrals and Grandis are the biggest victims here, Lumerians second as they didn't existed until Aline decided to LARP a fake family.
>Maellefags still thinking it's the good ending despite having many clues that the people Maelle brought to life are just drafts of their former selvesYou really didn't notice everyone wearing the same white dress?Maelle is incapable to get the Lumiere people alive completely. They're half-assed replica at best and we don't have enough informations to assess if they really have agency at all or the ending is just Maelle playing puppets in her own world.
>>733115448Omg, they are so happy
>>733117373>>733119318WHO'S CORRECT?IS THE SECOND GUY JUST INSANE?
>>733121090Maelle is very disabled. She should stay in the painting however long she wants
>>733157104Headcanon, post-hoc cope to being wrong.Can't Versofags give in and just accept that they were succesfully distracted into taking the vax, and that they are real life NPCs who let the game manipulate them?
>>733157336They're grieving at a grave, they aren't supposed to be happy. They aren't grieving at three graves though, and that's pretty good.
The reason for E33 endings breaking /v/ apart through its allegory is simple; basically you have a choice between staying in your Peter Pan (manchild) fake World or face the sacrificial reality of the real World and its just consequences. I don't need to tell you which one /v/ belongs to obviouslyLMAO
>>733157639She has a burned face and a fried voice. She's fine.
>>733120905In the sense of going hard into drugs to the point of ODing is "making a choice that shortens your life" kek. Nah bitch needs to get over it and get off minecraft
>thread has been up for two whole daysSo I assume some shill keeps bumping this. Sad!
>>733158003The problem is why “facing consequences and growing up” must come with a complete Genocide?If it was just maelle leaving and the people in the painting living their lives i wouldn’t have problems with it.It is the family killing and erasing countless of innocent souls that sunk the whole thing
>>733157639Alicia barely has it bad compared to most people with actual debilitating injuries. Just slap a glass eye in and she is fine. Bitch has pseudo magic powers. Painters can probably whip up glamours if its such a big deal and can already bypass the othet issue
>>733158487Maelle isn't leaving, that's the entire fucking point. Either the painting goes or she and her mother die, and then the painting goes. Furthermore, the people are already all dead, with the exception of two humans and some number of Gestral and Grandis.
Reminder that Final Fantasy Tactics Advance did it better
>>733114840The ingame choice I did was "Maelle's" because I thought it might end without postgame otherwise, but it's honestly a shit choice. Both are shit outcomes, either Alicia keeps "living" in her little escapism world until she goes insane or she goes back to real life where she is in constant pain and cannot speak. It's a lose lose situation. Btw the real choices aren't Maelle or Verso but rather Aline or Renoir-Clea faction. Aline is wrong for sure because she refuses to accept Verso's passing, Alicia at least has the excuse of being crippled for life
>>733151190Are maruki’s copies people with actual feelings ,dreams , colture and true fear of dying and never waking up again?For all we know maruki’s drones were just true illusions and not actual beings.Meanwhile the painted people are actual people with their own colture and lives , even before discovering to be the byproduct of a demiurge family>>733154054Gustave, The little orphans who were gorced into losing their parents, the drunk and grieving man crying for his deceased wife to the point he cannot even take care of his own daughter, the bunch of grieving people (alongside a fag) for their deceased ones and the little girl who was literally holding the hand of her vanishing mother would like to say some words to you and Renoir
>>733158643>Kills everyone>Ah well, no use crying over spilled milk
>>733114840i counter with marche>ITS ESCAPISM, ITS NOT HEALTHY
>>733157009>>They even create a fake youThis has to be the most insulting and rage inducing part.
>>733158659Final Fantasy Tactics Advance you could just rescue your friends, you did not need to erase the entire world. So the human aspect of the story was the focus, no genocide involved.If genocide is involved, the fate of a handful of people cannot be decided for the benefit of a few.
>>733158487Yes because its a painting (video game for us in this case). When you close any games that you don't come back to... Well you just "genocide" a Peter Pan World. People shit on "its just a dream" cheesy story but the fact is there's only a few archetypes of storytelling and E33 nailed that one and IDGAF if low IQ reductionist gamers are blinded by it on a conscious level when they are thorned by it inside without understand some basic fundamentals in story telling. Anybody who hold a mordicus of responsibility IRL understand that you don't make omelette without breaking an egg.
>>733158643Considering none of the painted people wants to die, the family has no rights to pull of pocket verse genocide just for their “therapy session”.They bare no rights to do that, no matter if “it is required to have a womanchild grow up”.There are still killing thousands of people, and without even these painted people being a danger for them!I like the two endings both, but people cannot tell me that a genocide is justified because of mhu “demiurge need to take her lesson”
>>733114840basedmake him play
>>733158857I didn't address this because I thought it was useless but, the "people" and beings inside the painting are just Chroma. We can assume that Chroma is at best a fraction of a Soul, the painter's soul. In any case a painting is worthless compared to a real human being as a human painter can produce many paintings while paintings are just immersive videogames. Chroma is not people and it never will, just like an NPC or a dating sim will never be a real person, even if it makes you feel better than one.
>>733158887Yeah, they should have gommaged too. That's what Renoir was aiming for. Aline gave them life, gave them the ability to feel this sort of pain. She should never have done this in the first place, it wasn't even her canvas.
>>733158659FFTA just straight up put Marche as correct and didn't allow for any other opinions (letting Donned stay or putting up with Mewts bullshit ).Donned had it worse because he is stuck on wheelchair where Alicia can at least walk around.
>>733159131>rightsRights are "God-given". They are gods. They have all of the rights. Also, Maelle isn't a demiurge, she's a god. The last fragment of Verso is a Demiurge.
To all those saying Lumiere people are real. I won't argue about that. Let bring another topic, how much their lifes cost?Imagine you have a pet. You love your pet more than anything else. You would fully John Wick on anyone who ever hurt him. Then, one day, your puppy starts multiplying. It divides itself like a cell, each day. One becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight etc. And they all love you and remember you like the very first one, they are fully identical copies. Maybe you will manage it first week, but how long it gonna take until you strart to hate your favorite pet? When are you going to ditch them or kill them? Does a life of a creature that multiples itself every day matter anything?People in Lumiere can be multiplied like that. You've seen those forests made of dead gestrals. Real people have souls because they have finite potential. Because they are unic, they can't be copied and can't be ressurected.
>>733159060Anon.These people are actually sentient, they are not like a video game.They had an actual culture and lives.They are not just figures they can just get rid of..I understand the meta narrative..but for how the powers in the story are shown, the painted people are fully sentient creatures just like most of the painted beings
>>733159413That's what the emotional attachment of those characters through the game's journey is trying to sell you. But at the end of the day they are still just a painting to the real world. Congratulation, you just played yourself (through a good game twist). No video games characters are real anon, no matter what you wish for emotionally.
>>733159398I will use the Lovecraftian beings’s comparison again.If it is true that the universe, and by direct product us Humans, is the direct consequences of Azathot’s dreams.And than Nyarlathothep and the other gods wants Azathot to wake up from his immaginary dream..Than we humans and all the being in the “created” universe should just bow down and await to be genocided with a smile on our faces?Or we should actually try to fight back and not accepting this miserable end just because some “superior” jackass want to prioritize themselves over us?
>>733148647It really all comes down to >I want to fuck the underage girlNo reasoning when people are set down that path.
>goddess uses your life as a coping mechanism for her dead demiurge son, endlessly bringing in new life that is fated to suffer by fighting against actual inhuman monsters>goddess knows fully well that her husband will keep trying to destroy that world to bring her back>creates a frankenstein of her son and brainwashes her own daughter to continue in her endeavours>NOOOOOOOO WHY YOU WANT TO ERASE THE PAINTING ITS LITERALLY GENOCIDEEEEAline doesn't care one iota of all the people she is dooming, nor do the other characters, because they know they aren't real. The only person who truly cares about those painted people is Maelle aka Alicia because she was forced to live 16 years among them, the exact time she lived in the real world. Honestly it's inexcusable
>>733159889Can Azathot dream me some thot? No? Than fuck him and his stupid dream!
>>733159889>fight backAgainst a creator god, whose only sustaining you by accident. Yeah, good luck with that I guess? You, right this very second, are waiting to die. What have you done to work towards immortality lately, anon? You are content to be governed by the laws of the universe, what does it matter to you that those laws are the realm of the divine?
>>733159889Nobody is arguing for the Lumiere citizens to lay down and die, this is Alicia's choice. She has to choose between her mother's sanity, hers, family's path to harmony or those beings.
>>733159772There is a difference, anon.We are not directly interacting with sentient beings literally screaming at us “please, don’t destroy our world. We want to live. We just want you to exist and be left in pause forever o godlike player entity”.Which is what the painted people are doing with the family.Especially with Maelle/alicia,she first hand lived and explored the life of the painted people by living as one of them, as much she was a loner with different ideas.This is not something possible for us players or readers. And even lesser this is not something playable/readable characters can do
>>733160410You keep using words like "sentient" and "genocide" when they are not really applicable here. You're pull by your narrative emotions anon. The real sentients are the family grieving their daughter in the real world. You' wouldn't bat an eye seeing a ant colony flooded as oppose to your city burning. That's because there's macro and micro. But it's normal you feel that way because "from above, so bellow". Still, its a lesser plain of (of an already doomed) existence and that's the hard truth. The painter is already dead. Its a Godless World. Here's some japanese panty for your morale
This thread has been up for almost 18 hours. Completely organic and definitely schizo shills samefagging bumping all night.
>>733158251>Living peacefully with friends and family and having a not-crippled body is JUST LIKE OD'ing on hard drugs
>>733114840One ending basically calls you an idiot for choosing escapism with a piano song, the other allows the last traces of the lingering soul of a deceased to mend his broken family and help them move on from his death. Yet some players can't seem to decipher which is meant to be the tragic, and meta wise wrong,ending and the bittersweet yet hopeful ending.
>dropping the fallout linethis has to be bait lmaoMaelle's ending only seems obvious if you've skipped all of the side content. Versos if you don't. The problem was a prisoners dilema where Maelle believes if she left; daddy dearest would burn the paining. So she refused to leave saying she would take breaks which she obviously doesn't by her own ending. Giving the keys of the world to an emotionally unstable child is the dumbest thing you could do. Versos ending is accepting the situation is shit and kicking the idiot god girl out to save her which ends up killing yourself and your remaining friends in the process.
>>733159772The last mental defense of the Versofag that has no arguments left.>Just stop caring about stories it's all just make believe so really you're stupid for thinking about it and having an emotional reaction
>>733147678mmmmmmm, butterrrrr
>>733160225>*incompresible alien gibbering translated into 4chan language*>DREAMANON>I’VE DREAMED SO MANY HOT BITCHES>GO OUT ,TOUCH SOME GRASS SINCE IT TOOK EFFORTS TO DREAM THESE TOO>OR ELSE I WILL DREAM YOU JUST LIKE THAT PATHETIC LOSER CUMMING IN A DREAMED POOL WHILE HE IS THE ONE DREAMING TO BE KEKED!
>>733160972>Demiurge-San>I know you want to heal your sister and unite your broken family>But…what if you do that…WITHOUT KILLING US ALL AND CONSIDERING US LESSER THAN YOU?>You know …we all would wish to live our lives safe from your god shaneningans
>>733160248It matters that the universe is completely uncaring and just physics running their course, and not controlled by a human being no different from any of us with their own agendas and priorities outside our universe.The painters are not divine, they're people with too much power over the lives of countless other people.
>>733162034Tell me how I know you wouldn't be able to spare an animal's suffering because you're emotionally a weak faggot. Sit on your fence and let the adults run the real world. I never said to dismiss the story either ya tinkerbell.
>>733162343The painters are effectively divine. If you found out physics was the whims of a god, what would you do? That's right, fucking nothing.
>>733161627The writers (i.e: ChatGPT and Claude) are midwits and did not really think on the actual moral implications of their own stupid creation. There is no more creatively bankrupt conclusion to your story than 'It was all a lie'.Then they fail to properly reward the player and go out to punish them for not choosing genocide, because they did not truly realize what they were doing.A similar example is the ending of Mass Effect 3, where the only correct ending that frees the galaxy from the reapers is actively discouraged by the game itself.
>>733162343Based Gold ChadFuck Marika (gladly) and Fuck verso’s family
>>733162341>I care more about video games characters than my real peers>OH AND FUCK GOD AMIRITE?Zoomers lol
>>733162341>well that's a shame little buddy, because other gods that I want to survive are intent on killing themselves here>bye
>You'll never know us... but I want you to know that you are loved.>I want you to know... you're not alone.>You will always be the beautiful child I held in my arms.>You will smile the brightest smile.>You will cry iridescent tears.>You will know love and you will know pain.>You will know loss all too well.>Because we live in an unforgiving world.>But you are strong and you will survive.>You will struggle...>And you will learn.>You'll find people to call your own.>And you'll shine as their guiding light.>For you will change the world and the people around you.>You'll forever be our princess.
>>733162534>not wanting a bunch of innocent homunculus( actually the descendants of these homunculus who built their own country, lives and cultures) to die for the sake of a family of retards is….le bad
>>733161627>Emotional swayed by vibes and creepy presentation rather than actual facts and truthVerso's ending starts dark and tragic and ends bright and hopefulMaelle's ending starts bright and hopeful and ends dark and tragic That's the whole point, they're equally hopeful and equally horrific and irreconcilable.They're both Clair Obscur
>>733161758>Maelle's ending only seems obvious if you've skipped all of the side content. Versos if you don't.It's literally the opposite though
>>733114840My ending was: >"I don't give a single shit about the Dessendre because this is not why I bought the fuckin game in the first place."This is also why I am completely impervious to the "debate".
>>733162761>choosing the lesser plane of existence because muh emotionsI swear all maelle endingfags arguments are rooted in juvenile emotions. You're a manchild dude. You just want to extend their suffering because...BECAUSE OK!? Like a overbearing mother who shelter his child against all responsibility. Really feminine thinking.
>>733116776>>733128979>>733130401>>733139113>>733151358lmao, proved him right
>>733163078
>>733163317Looking at the night sky so Lune can smile at me
https://youtu.be/uxLCdzLBMcs?si=1BqQQZXy2S7hUdfi
>>733163317Still waiting for the sole version
>>733115448Clea be like: "Can we hurry the fuck up before they attack us again?"
>>733162376How am I fence sitting, I'm literally taking a moral stance. It's literally you being the one trying to dismiss the very idea of having an emotional connection to something because it's fiction.>I never said to dismiss the story either ya tinkerbell.You bring up the fact it's just a video game as if that has anything to do with the moral calculus of the story itself. You don't engage with the text and instead try to chastise people for simply having an emotional reaction to a narrative and basing their opinions off that.
Imagine caring about what French "people" think.
>>733163267>Just stop caring about peopleVery autistic response indeed
>>733114840>you are a traitor to the Expedition and deserve to be court martialed for irreversibly destroying the world to benefit the demiurgesYou can't be a traitor to a holodeck program.
>>733114840If the game followed the classic JRPG tropes, the Lumièrians would simply go against the Dessendre. Defying gods and fate is a recurring theme in those games. What if Maelle found a way to make Lumièrians escape the Canvas? It's also a classic trope in art in general, the "beast that escapes its creator". The Dessendre keep playing gods, inflicting misery without taking any responsibility, it's totally possible to imagine that, one day, it could backfire horribly. And before someone says "hurr it's not possible", the only limit to art is your own imagination.
>>733158891>>733158643As storytelling choices go, destroying Lumiere BEFORE the final confrontation was incredibly fucking cowardly and biased and takes a lot of the bite out of an allegedly very difficult debateIt would have been a harder call if there were still thousands of cowering civilians whose lives hung in the balance. Or maybe it would have been an easier call if way more players sided with Maelle in those circumstances.
>>733114840I just wanted Verso to suffer. The fact he can't die gives more taste to the revenge.
>>733163871Verso ending is the correct morale choice as an adult. Maelle ending is the emotional blind choice of a child that want to extend her peter pan world. I use the relation of the painting and the "real world in game" as us players with a piece of fictional video game media because it is the same metaphor. If you're dumb to understand such a simple concept and study it outside your primal emotional reaction than you're just a retard. I love the characters and the story, but it is still a Godless subworld with an expiration date crawling through suffering. If the game happened outside the painting and only 1 stage was in it, it would still be a sort-of tragedy yes, but to a way lesser extend since the weight of your emotional value would be outside of its narrative view. You can cry reductionist on my comments all dayz, it won' t change the fact that you're wrong and that the only argument you hold is not cemented in facts but in first level emotional gravitas. A tons of movies made me feel something and if its not a documentary it will always be less than a real life event. Go ride a bike outside and touch grass non ironically>>733164180"People". Have you made your 2D AI fap materials today dear brown human ? >>733165012Totally sane maellefag hereKEKthey hated me because I told the truth
>>733164736Lune and Sciel and Monoco were alive and wanted to live, just like the gestrals. And the people of could still be brought back.>>733165186I love how Verso ending people have the most basic takes, thinking this is a Final Fantasy Tactics Advance problem, and not a moral one.Truly Dunning-Kruger incarnate
>>733164736The writer was bending over backwards because a part of he rprobably realized she had written herself into a corner, where the literal compulsive liar was supposed to be the good guy.Then she realized she was hijacking and making her own message more confusing (the message of the game is that escapism is bad, no shit, thus reducing a potentially epic man x god tale to the lowest common denominator)
>>733165186>Calls other people dumb>Fails babbys first philosophical question so hard he even ignored the game spelling it out for himNo, this doesn't mean i'm saying the maelle ending is rigjt.
>>733164736If Verso fags had to watch the people of Lumière cowering in fear and praying for their lives as their compulsive liar psychopath erased them from existence so he can kill himself, they'd begin asking questions, such as if genocide is bad.This would short-circuit their very little brains, which already cannot handle this very obvious choice as it is, much less if they had to tell the people of Lumière that life sucks, and then they die.
>>733165972>>733166216I like how you brainlets move the goalpost with shitty ad hominem. The Painter is dead, that world was doomed from the start but sure lets keep it going till there's toddlers being erased without having develop conscience themselves. Short-sighted imbeciles.
Skin issue.
>>733141762>mass genocide of innocent peopleThis doesnt happen in E33 either
>>733166216Anon legitimately think he is smart because he is literally repeating what the game says.For his next assignment, he should play Mass Effect 3 and say that everyone who wanted the reapers to continue existing are legitimately correct, while repeating the circular logic of the indoctrination.Hell, anon is probably fully vaccinated.
>>733166592We do see that happen. We even see it twice.
>>733163786
>>733162341How exactly do you suggest he does that? Verso isn't some mustache twriling villain. He didn't deliberately cause the gommage of Lumiere just for the heck of it. If there was a way to save Aline and Alicia that didn't involve destroying the canvas, he'd obviously choose that.
>>733167223But the choices he makes, the information he hides and lies about directly make sure that there is no such choice.
Verso is right and dumb bitches refuse to stop his suffering as a tormented ghost pf his former self trapped in his decaying fantasy world of his childhood. This shit is depressing really
>>733166769You could have replied to me with a sensible argument but you opted to deflect + insult because you got nothing like all maellefags.
>>733167204Verso fans have a very short memory, they would literally need to have the children begging for their lives and say that the science-approved ending is that one where their lives are spared. Then they need a beautiful, colourful ending sequence with very bright lights and a rainbow, telling them that they are good people for not commiting genocide and actually fighting the people trying to erase them.
>>733147849>>733158905>>733159254E33 is sort of a reverse FFTA because FFTA's stakes in the "real" world are so much higherMarche is right not for any philosophical reason, but because Mewt is taking thousands of other people hostage, endangering and sometimes murdering themIf anyone saw WandaVision, is the same shit, the troubled god makes it everyone else's problem because they had the misfortune of existing near her. Or that little Cornfield Nigga from The Twilight Zone.But in E33 it's Verso and Renoir that are obliterating a world, stealing the lives and dreams and futures of multitudes away.PS Alicia's life is way worse than Doned's, he might be a crip but he's in the modern world surrounded by friends, Alicia is horribly disfigured, mute and in constant pain in 1906 France with nothing but her abusive schizo family. What the fuck are her prospects, actually? Since we're being so realistic here, what realistically happens to Alicia as the early 20th century passes in France?
>>733168287>Alicia is horribly disfigured, mute and in constant pain in 1906 France with nothing but her abusive schizo family. What the fuck are her prospects, actually? Since we're being so realistic here, what realistically happens to Alicia as the early 20th century passes in France?They're pretty rich though arent they?
>>733168287I don't think people who picked the Verso ending can truly think critically and beyond what they are presented with, anon.A safe question is to ask them how would they feel if they hadn't had breakfast this morning.
>>733165186>I use the relation of the painting and the "real world in game" as us players with a piece of fictional video game media because it is the same metaphor.It's not. Stop writing fan fiction>I love the characters and the story, You clearly don't since you refuse to engage with the actual characters and the actual story and instead substitute it with your own head canon that reduces the weight of the narrative and the weight of the moral choice being presented so you can make it a simpler black and white situation. You're too intellectually dishonest to see the story as it is, rather than what you want it to be.>"People". Have you made your 2D AI fap materials today dear brown human ?See >>733127849
>>733167218Imagine
>>733168647>I refuse this metaphor! Its your own headcanon cause I said soLmao ok >you clearly dont love the characters as much as I do so your opinion is invalidShut up pussy nigga>call me an NPCRivetingYou said literally nothing but crying against something you don't agree with and provided nothing insightful. Right on call about maellefags. Keep cherry picking emotard
>>733166171Brother you're just projecting your own simplistic and reductionist reading of the story onto the writer. The whole point is the canvas world is REAL and Maelle was literally born and raised in it. You're just stupid reporting that you missed, or are actively ignoring the clear nuance of the narrative so you can make it a more black and white choice.
>>733166769>Anon legitimately think he is smart because he is literally repeating what the game says.Yes, actually presenting what the story says rather than making shit up and trying to insert it into the story like what you're doing.The easiest way to dismantle a Versofag is to simply reiterate what happens in the game.
>>733114840e33 is a really shit game.
>>733115448>It Is what It is
>>733168285It doesn't matter to them, they already do everything to dehumanize the painted people as much as possible. It's how they cope with their choice because arguing the actual consequences of the endings from a purely egalitarian viewpoint completely dismantles their argument.
>>733167467What should he do? If he gave the letter to Maelle, ot could lead to a good ending, true, but it could also wake Alicia up and then she'd refuse to kick out Aline knowing what it would do. It's only Aline and Alicia's fault that a third ending wasn't possible. Verso and Renoir just did what they could.
>>733115909That's was Dante funfict.
>>733169295ntaIf the real world didn't exist your painting wouldn't either, that wouldn't be possible if we inverted that notion. You guys put the cart before the horse and act like you have the intellectual high ground, nah you're just being pompous
>>733168560In 1910s Europe
