A game can drown you in content and still ask very little of you strategically, because most of that content is interchangeable, untelegraphed, or functionally reduced to "hope the run hands you something usable." Mewgenics leans hard into sheer volume as a selling point. The dirty secret is that huge libraries often force designers into one of two bad outcomes: either specific pieces become mandatory (so runs hinge on lottery pulls), or the pieces blur together so any reasonable pick works and drafting becomes less meaningful. The massive diversity can work against player agency, with items and skills becoming similar enough that early on it can feel like it might not really matter which one you choose, because most slightly reasonable choices perform about the same. And when the game does try to make individual pieces matter, it often does it by injecting more randomness rather than sharper constraints. RNG can make or break a run, how minimal rerolls are, and how you can end up with a carefully bred cat still getting a streak of bad offerings. Further: basic information is not surfaced cleanly, including item set bonuses that you may not even realize exist for hours because the game does not clearly tell you what belongs to a set. That is not complexity, it is opacity stapled to variance, with the player doing bookkeeping and archaeology while the run continues to move.Even shills of Mewgenics here tend to describe its tactical layer as comparatively straightforward and its big moments as chaos-driven: Battles are not deeply intricate puzzles, and turning points often come from randomized elements or unpredictable behaviors. That is the blueprint for bloat: the game keeps you playing because there is always another weird interaction around the corner, not because the underlying decision space is consistently tight and demanding.
Knights in the Nightmare, an actually good SRPG, is the opposite. It is not deep because it has a lot of stuff. It is deep because it takes a relatively small set of mechanics and locks them together so tightly that every advantage has an opportunity cost, and every mistake bleeds a resource you actually care about. Most fights are not won by wiping the map; they are won by routing kills to complete a line on the Enemy Matrix, a tic-tac-toe objective that changes what good targeting even means. You are also not even fighting the full enemy roster at once; you deal with a small selection per turn and progress the larger matrix state across turns, so planning is about sequencing and route construction, not "press strongest AoE until nothing moves" like in MewThen KitN adds the part that makes it feel like a real strategy game instead of a content museum like Mewgenics: execution and economy are fused. Your HP is basically time, and time is consumed primarily when you charge attacks or when the Wisp gets hit by bullets, meaning the game does not punish you for thinking, it punishes you for sloppy play and inefficient plans. If you want the strongest tools, you are pushed into Law and Chaos phase management, where the game’s own systems throttle your resource generation until you flip, so you cannot just sit in the comfortable mode forever. Most importantly, KitN makes bringing option” expensive in a way Mewgenics largely does not. Weapons have durability, knights have vitality, and those are attrition resources that narrow your future choices even if you are winning. There is a particularly brutal detail that captures the difference between bloat and complexity: in KitN, simply employing an item for a turn costs durability whether you swing it once or ten times, so even hedging your loadout has a real cost. That is real complexity
I will not be reading your blogpost. Learn to format so your writing isn't a fucking chore to look at next time. All fields
>>733129997>>733130020>AI slop image>Words words words
>>733130106>NOOOO where are my reddit spacerinoos this is literally unreadable
>>733129997That's not the mewgenics logo. My man made an AI slop thumbnail for his blogpost. Like he's on youtube. This is genuinely one of the faggiest things I've seen in a while on here. Who the fuck does that? I want you to know that I made a conscious effort to glaze my eyes over to not even make out a sentence of your drivel.
>>733129997>>733130020You're 100% right but /v/ isn't the right board for discussions like these unfortunately
>>733129997>Battles are not deeply intricate puzzlesPuzzles are trash. Problems are better.
>>733130138>>733130252tbf the art in mewgenics is AI generated too
>>733130484I'm not convinced. It looks like chat GPT slop. Theres' no examples of any actual mechanics or situations. There's no warrants of what the degree of complexity. No O^N. No charting of other games.He might be right, but it's not a strong case at all. Just a "I like this game".
You're just mad because the vox populi doesn't suck off the East like you do you self-loathing cuck.
Who's arguing that muewgenice is complex? It's extremely straightforward but that doesn't make or break an SRPG. Also your definition of bloat is totally off base.Like I don't know what drove you to type all this and gen AI for some bullshit but even your wall of text isn't even sound let alone the obvious disqualifiers.Sort your shit out man
>>733130604It's stupid simple and looks exactly like the art in his earlier games. Dev's also been pretty vocal against AI art. Proof or you're full of shit.
>>733130824nta but Mewgenics is fucking bloated, imagine even arguing against that
>>733129997tldrYour post is a bloated mess
>>733129997I don't know why but that image is AI
>>733130914I wouldn't say it isn't. I'm targeting his "argument". read what the retard wrote. That's not the definition of bloat at all. He put up an entire paragraph and didn't even say anything.
>>733130824The most powerful drink ever made, I can already hear Tarzan Boy playing in my head
>>733130020Why can't they just both do their own things?
>>733131032eh he's right
>>733130020kind of an unfair comparison lol. KitN is just about as complex as tactical RPGs get, ofc Mew wouldn't be on the same level
>>733130830He's retarded lmao
I dunno man. When I wasn't thinking things through and equipped a hat that generates 1hp familiars each turn onto a cat with a mutation that made it take an AI controlled berserker turn every time it killed something it took 10 turns in a row and almost wiped my entire team along with the rest of the map. That felt like some pretty cool emergent behavior that I didn't see coming.Then when I got the idea to weaponize a similar concept by sending out a team of 1 with tweaked gear to make it workable as a strategy I felt pretty pleasedOf course the fun that I had is invalidated by the fact that this game wasn't made by our superior Japanese overlords. So what do I know?
>>733131375>invalidated by the fact that this game wasn't made by our superior Japanese overlordslearn to read, retard. He just named one actually complex SRPG and it happened to be Japanese, everything else is just projection on your part
>>733131527It's an Atlus game. Atlus fans do not get the benefit of the doubt.
>>733131704Retard, it's developed by Sting. Atlus publishes all sorts of games. But keep on losing your shit just because OP mentioned a game that happens to be Japanese. Totally normal behavior, anon
Good morning, saar.
>>733129997>>733130020>You see the thing is: old game good, new game BAD.
>>733131851>old game good>2008 is old according to nu-/v/just kill me already holy fuck
>>733131936Anon that was almost 20 years ago. There are people born after this game came out with children of their own.
>Bloat>Is actually extremely simple>Compares to a fucking Sting game>Which have had shittons of mechanics AI generated retard Are we gonna start calling fucking into the breach "bloat" now?
I think we should permaban all aislop pajeets
>>733132254Sting games aren't bloated though
>>733132254OP's point is that bloat is not the same as complexity, that's it. And it's pretty clear that Mew confuses the two.
Fuck confusion as an effect. Enemies only have what, 1 30 percent chance of hitting themselves, might as well not be if they're ranged.Meanwhile you cant do fucking anything, even heal or use an item, or its a ton of damage and instant death.
>>733132503It's only confusing if you're mentally retarded like OP. If normalfag retards can figure mewgenics so can anyone else
Mewgenics is indeed a bit too easy
>>733132668Who said it's confusing? It's just bloated.>normalfag retards can figure mewgenicsYeah because it's not complex but bloated, literally proving OP's point.
>>733132743>too easyIt smacks you over the head with bullshit, its hard not easy.
>>733129997TL;DR, essayfag
>>733132842nta but it's not that hard, esp if you have some prior experience with SRPGs lol
>>733132883TL;DR: Mewgenics is bloated but not complex
>>733129997>owlcat seethe thread
>>733129997didnt read but yeah i refunded it because it was gross and the tutorial stuff was annoying
>>733133006Okay? It's an Edmund game that is very clearly cribbing off of Isaac in its design philosophy but applying it to an SRPG style of gameplay instead of Smash TV.Anybody who has played Isaac (which is the intended audience for this game) knows that bloat is the shtick. You are enlightening nobody with this commentary.
>>733129997I could tell just looking at the store page it was the usual indie strategy of "if I just add 50 different mechanics to my game then it's super strategic and complex right??". Just this one store page image has>holy damage>blind>vaporization>bounty>7 different stats>actives>passives>alpha units>weaknessInto the Breach mogs this game hard while remaining elegantly simple
>>733133717Noooooo I can't just have systems that interact with each other I can't keep track of all that
>>733133810The systems barely interact with each other though, they don't even constrain one another. That's the problem
>>733133717The magic of rogueoids. Just add a bunch of shit and RNG it up. "Balance" happens automatically because the game restarts every 20 minutes and players will rarely get the broken shit. Every dumbass player will feel like a genius when they get a broken combo and win.
>>733133895Holy damage is increased against undead. Many undead turn into corpses when killed that revive after a turn or two so the vaporization bypasses that issue. It's also increased risk. It's actually pretty common for your cats to be downed mid fight. Them getting in the cross fire isn't rare. This is a map wide AOE that will permakill them if you try that and they can't tank it. So it really encourages you to bunch up in the safe zone since your cleric can't just go around and revive them after using it. Knead is a generic ability unrelated to the cleric class specifically. It gives your units +1 damage and gives enemies -1. The simples thing in the world. Funnily enough a spell like this is a great example of a use case for it. Increasing strength by 1 is multiplied in effectiveness be every enemy you hit. Alpha is a system that all classes have access to. It's basically buffing another unit but then limiting who that buff can be applied to. Fun to juggle it around with some of the abilities that trigger it on kill. And witch hunt is a pretty simple "mark target for a flat buff for the teammate that kills it"
>>733133717>damage type>status effect>no body>standard rpg stats >thing you click to do things>thing that character has without clicking>targeting restriction and buff>debuffNone of this seems out of the ordinary for an rpg.I haven't touched this game or read about it beyond this thread.
>>733132503you sound mentally defective.
YOU WORK 9 TO 5 and 5 TO 9 AGAIIIIIIIIN!
>>733133717>me definition of a rpg complexity is dark souls (the youtube version that give me lols) and cookie clicker
>>733133717>7 different statsI'm not wasting time dealing with some drooling retard that is filtered by this fundamental thing.
I feel like we aren't shitting on OP enough for generating an AI video-essay thumbnail for his thread.
>>733134508>shittingLike the sewer filled with TURDS
>>733134508I care more about actually discussing the game
>>733133717Man if you ever play a tabletop game your skull will catch fire.
>bunker is too hard for my shit genetics cats >dybuuk quest item run too difficult for my shit genetics cats>guillotina 3 just raped and cleared my party Bros…
You know a game has to be good when /v/ seethes about it day in and day out
>>733134631She's not that bad. The head actually does literally nothing if you leave it alone and just wail on the body. What happened when you lost? I nevel lost a home attack.
>>733134220>Holy damage is increased against undead that's not something your own cited examples actually establish, and players have explicitly noticed cases where a Cleric’s holy/basic interaction does not do extra damage to zombie-type enemies. If the holy vs undead relationship exists in Mew, it is not a clean, universal systemic rule in the way you; it’s either narrower than claimed, implemented through specific skills, or inconsistent/bug-prone. (There are even people stating of undead-related tagging weirdness causing heal/damage behaviors to misfire on certain enemies/boss animations)>reviving corpsei.e. "this spell has the word Vaporize on it, and vaporizing prevents corpse stuff"That is not an emergent cross-system interaction, it is a single ability directly overriding a single mechanic by design. Wrath of God literally says "Enemies you kill with this are Vaporized" That’s not systems interacting so much as "an exception rule stapled onto a nuke". Yes, it interacts with corpse health and revival, but in the most straightforward, non-interesting way: it deletes the corpse kek>increased risk / crossfire / permakill your downed catsnot evidence of deep interaction so much as a blunt friendly-fire constraint. Downed bodies have corpse health that ticks down when they get hit by AoE, knockback, thorns, and arena-wide effects; if it hits zero the body is destroyed. So a map-wide AoE can absolutely punish sloppy positioning or sloppy timing. But that’s just AoE griefing you not some sophisticated web of incentives>Kneadthe definition of a shallow interaction: it applies a flat +1 Damage Up to allies and +1 Weakness to enemies>Alpha and Witch Huntthey are standard mark/anchor mechanics. Witch Hunt is simply "mark an enemy; when it dies, the killer gets All Stats Up" Cleric’s Adoubement is similarly explicit: it marks a unit as "The Alpha" and then forces targeting rules around that state.
Do cats inherit the stats of retired cats buffs or only the base cats stats? I keep trying to make them fuck but i just get normal level cats.
>>733134673I killed the head, the mama leach was summoned in and I barely managed to kill it. Then I slowly got raped by the adds. Guillotina’s body had about 100 hp left and there were still like 5 mutated adds
>i never played tboiYou
>>733129997>>733130020Do people not understand that the randomness is part of the appeal of these kinds of games? No fucking shit it's not balanced, you can't balance a slot machine. This is like going up to a poker table and yelling at the people playing that they're not having fun because there's elements of luck and randomness involved in poker. Do you think they're gonna say "damn you're right, i shouldn't play games of chance" or are they gonna say you're not a retard and tell you to fuck off?
>>733134697>Yes, it interacts with corpse health and revival, but in the most straightforward, non-interesting way: it deletes the corpse kekLol. Lmao even. The vaporize ability, get this, fucking vaporizes things. Can you imagine? Zozzle. Top kek. XDDActual question. How would you, hallowed saint of enlightened game design, change this one specific ability to be better by your standards? I'm genuinely curious.
>>733134751Body first. Head is a non issue if you leave it in a corner.
>>733134716Give some kittens to tink. Buffed and base stats are 2 different things and he'll let you see. Class abilities can be passed down with high stimulation though.
>buy a Strategic RPG>look inside>tactics
AIslopper thinks he is people
WHERE'S THAT SMELL COMING FROMWHERE'S THAT SMELL COMING FROM
>>733134878how about changing the structure from braindead "instant global delete" to "creates a state you can exploit, with real counterplay and positional consequences", anon?Concretely: make it apply a 2-turn battlefield status, call it Consecration. When you cast it, it does moderate holy damage (not necessarily map-wide; large radius or lane is already a big improvement) and tags all enemies hit with Consecrated. Any undead or corpse that is Consecrated does not get removed immediately. Instead, if it would revive, it is vaporized at that moment and detonates a small holy blast centered on the corpse. That blast damage scales with the corpse’s remaining corpse health (so corpse health and "crossfire" are now part of the plan), and it also destroys any corpses caught in the blast, including your downed cats. This preserves the original use case (shutting down revivers) while turning it into a timing and positioning puzzle: you can intentionally shove corpses together to chain detonation, or shove them away to protect your own bodies; you can choose to stall one turn to let a revive timer tick so you get the detonation where you want it; you can also screw yourself if you Consecrate the whole map and then a teammate goes down in the wrong place.
>>733134961So I have to give him more just to see? Im just wondering should I use my retired high stat cats to make kittens or does them being high stats not matter?
>>733129997>A game can drown you in content and still ask very little of you strategically, because most of that content is interchangeable,I know you made this thread to shit on mewgenics but this describes the wide majority of turn based JRPGs even the ones praised for their difficulty or complexity. Fire emblem, etrian odyssey or even competitive pokemon. You seldom have to think
>>733135090Not the ones they get from level ups but if they get a mutation in the field that passes on.
>>733130020wait are you that retard who was having a tantrum in the other thread yesterday and kept narrowing the definition of 'ivory tower design'
>>733133717pokemon is too complex for you lmao.
>>733134867>No fucking shit it's not balanced, you can't balance a slot machineThis retard wrote that thinking he actually had a point lmfao
fucking retards. its obvious that Mew's biggest inspiration was Darkest Dungeon. the main focus of these games is to mitigate bad RNG through careful planning BEFORE adventuring, not the turn-based fights
>>733129997This would have been a great argument before Dark Souls was used by assholes as a breeding ground for shutting people up. Doesn't it feel bad when your argument can be shut down by one retard virtue signaling to his cohort by posting 2 words and everybody from his group comes and floods your thread with accusations of not getting it? The cult of difficulty and snowflakey behavior won't die anytime soon
>>733135238The point is that some people like slot machines.
>>733135240Darkest Dungeon is slop for fairweather gamers who'd like to pretend to play roguelikes without actually playing them
>>733129997Seethe harder little baby, mewgenics won
>>733135141Ah so im looking for mutations. I thought you wanted experienced cats because their stat ups pass down, Im guessing they don't/
>>733131527>Helol lmaokill yourself
>>733135240darkest dungeon is definitely both, rather than planning>adventuring in terms of risk mitigationwell it tends towards 50/50 but it varies. Sometimes you have a setup that prevents any trouble in advance, sometimes youre playing a setup that is capable of dealing with everything but requires you to make not-the-easiest decisions on the spot
>>733129997>A game can drown you in content and still ask very little of you strategically, because most of that content is interchangeable, untelegraphed, or functionally reduced to "hope the run hands you something usable."But a lot of the strategy and challenge comes from having to jury rig and improvise from having been dealt a poor hand. And yes Knights in the Nightmare is wonderful, but you are indeed underselling Mewgenics. It's not as dumb as you're making it out to be.
>>733135395No but the good thing is their wounds don't either. Here's the view after a few upgrades. This is a kitten so they're the same but injuries, class selection, level ups, and items will change the numbers on the right. Mutations and breeding will change the ones on the right. Only the right pass down. Keeping veteran cats around is still fine though. They can still breed just fine if you like their stats. That being said note the good stats on my cat here. I did this primarily just by breeding cats with good natural stats.
>>733135620*Typo. Injuries and stuff change the number on the LEFT. Which are actually the relevant stats in battle. Mutations on the RIGHT which pass down.
Using ai to gain views, clicks, and replies... on a basket weaving chinese forum.. really showing how low iq the younger generation is towards gamesGo watch and stare at youtube thumbnails you fucking drooling faggot
>>733135240It obviously wasn't DD but the litany of SRPGs out there retard
>Look at game>Its an aesthetic eyesoreSkip>errrmm graphics dont matta its the gameplay...Completely goyed
>>733134637I see more shilling than seething though
>>733135395It's funny I also got baited by that, the first Tink upgrade makes the base state mechanic clear and visible in game
>>733130604No it isnt
>>733129997>>733130020Why are AIsloppers such disingenuous cocksuckers?
>>733134568when someone generates slop images like that its very likely that he is a third worlder with nothing of value to say.this thread proves my claim.
>>733133895In just my first few runs I've learned several elemental reactions that create emergent gameplay Fire spreads across grassWet targets grow grass tiles into tall grass when walking over themWet targets and water conduct electricityWet targets get frozen instead of slowed from ice magicBeing poisoned counts as Wet
>>733135620So level ups and injuries and items only help health strength and range then?
Unironically this is a better game than Mewgenics.
>>733136570I mean you can just engage with that they say instead of derailing the thread with shitposts
>>733129997
>>733136819its a shitpost thread.do as the romans do.
>>733135395The skills they learn pass down, so breeding experienced cats is still a good idea anyways. That way you can start getting kittens with innate class skills. Think of an adventure as another way to seperate the wheat from the chaff, if they survive to the end their genes aren't complete dogshit
>>733134508His post is likely AI-generated too. You don't even see him arguing with people in the thread. He just dropped his AIshit on the board and left. That's just how this site is now.
>>733136879how new are you, faggot?
>>733136946>no dude 4chinz was always a jeet shitting ground xDHow about you get the fuck off my board, cunt?
>>733136946Look, another AI post.
>>733136492they are brown.
>>733136879GPTzero returns the op and first reply as 100% ai generated, so yeah.
>>733136972>immediately retorts to /r9k/ slangso you are a newfaggot, thanks for confirming it. OP not interacting with the thread has been a staple for well over 15 years at this point, especially for flamewar threads
>>733137003>>733136985>>733136879>>733134508and here you are giving the thread (You)'s, fucking zoomers
>>733137025Delusional jeetfaggot.>>733137065>(You)'sGo back to plebbit.
>>733137025>/r9k/ slangAre you so desperate to fit in that you will brazenly lie? This image is older than you are.
>>733137141I can also go on the archive and look for old reaction images, anon. Either way, your conduct alone proves you're a newfaggot
>>733129997>AIslop image and textDidnt read
don't care I'm having fun also you're inbred
>>733137025actual indian
>>733137118keep on bumping a thread you pretend to hate. We all know you love the shitflinging
>>733135240There's no mitigating a random event changing the weather to infested and bricking your necromancer.
>autistic anime longposter is back>still raving about Knights in the Nightmare>AI slop pic now instead of anime>>733075059man this guy is having a breakdown huh
>>00733137118>>00733137246(You)
>>733137267>implying I'm bumpingNewfaggot retard.
>>733137308the guy made a thread, left, and you fags are all bumping it. He'll likely do the same again tomorrow and you retards will keep on falling for the bait
>>733137332you sage when the thread is just about to die, otherwise, you'll just get someone else to bump it for you.It's funny seeing you newfaggots discover that saging is still interacting with the thread
>>733137209>newfag cant read image datesThanks for confirming. Now get the fuck off my board
>>733137414How many imaginary rules are you jeets going to conjure up?
Love me the desert theme song. Alley is good too, same with junkyard and sewers. Also Guillotina's theme. Trampy limping and swirling around taking dumps, spitting, drinking and then throwing the bottle on my cats and falling over to sleep is funny
>>733137435>muh metadatacan be faked, you have the unix timestamp right there. I don't believe any word that comes out of your newfaggot mouth
>>733137440how more often are you going to engage with a thread you pretend to hate? I thought these sorts of threads are ruining /v/? Why not make high-quality threads of your own and bump those?
>>733129997>>733130020you've been running around trying to shill your shitty special game. Your game sucks, Mewgenics is good, simple as.
>>733137532And what exactly are you trying to accomplish then by having this petty argument with me? I pointed out that the post was also AI-generated expecting people to simply agree and leave it at that but for some reason people got deeply offended by that. Very curious.
>>733137638I'm saying none of you faggots ever do anything to improve the board quality. You enter bait threads, bitch and moan, but never, ever make a thread of your own. Not to mention, you specifically choose to engage with these shit threads every single time
>>733137686Well, congrats, backseat janny. You turned my one post into several posts of "no u"s.
>>733132025nta but I would never call a game from 2008 old or retro
>>733133717Into the Breach is boring as fuck and I'm tired of pretending otherwise
mucho texto lolnot reading any of that shit, or watching your video
>>733131150>>733130020>>733129997This, I like Mewgenics and KitN for widly different reasons
>>733137495>makes excuses after minutes googling on how to do itLol, fuck off my board newfag
>>733135054THREE LITTLE TURDS (TURDS, TURDS, TURDS!) PERCHED UP BY YOUR DOORSTEPAND MY ADVICE WOULD BE THAT YOU DON'T TAKE ONE MORE STEP (WATCH OUT!)JUST BEFORE YOU GOT HEREWELL EVERYTHING WAS THE SAMEYOU'RE JUST ANOTHER NUMBERNUMBER TWO IS YOUR NAME!
>>733138043>my boardnot even that guy but this is prime cringe, genuinely kys, you wannabe janny
>>733129997Why do you dislike all the Borderlands games?
Too rng
>>733129997>born too late for golden age 4chan, born just in time for shitposting to be outsourced to AIdamn
>>733132756Bloated with what?
>>733133717>complaining about statsIm not buying skyrim Todd.
Not enough RNG
>>733129997yeah congrats now you understand why all the games that are popular now are popular. People don't want challenge. Never did. They want new stuff. That's fucking it. You can ofc make new stuff with challenge, but that's harder to nail
Somewhere beyond the moonSomewhere beyond the moonSomewhere beyond the moonSo high, so high, so high
>>733130216If you look at the archives you'll note that spacing out posts was common and unremarkable until 2016, when retardditors flooded the site and latched onto bitching about longtime habits as shiboleths to try and pretend they'd always been hereParagraphs are not a marxist invention
>AI bloated shitposting now I've seen it all
I'm not reading any of that
Ok but what do you think about the fact my asshole is really red and itchy and I keep trying to pop what I think is a pimple around the rim of it but it hurts too much to accomplish
>>733138261imagine an LLM trained exclusively on pre-2016 4chan
>>733129997Did you seriously use fucking AI to make OC in an OP post?Whatever you have to say is irrelevant, because you are incapable of using MsPaint: you're an outsider and deserve only to be tossed into the trash.
>AI shitpostmeow
>>733130706>No O^Nwhat the fuck do you want?
>>733134867And based on some data that I found recently, coupled with personal real data, younger and inexperienced players prefer the random aspect of games, but seasoned players/enthusiasts don't really like it. Tells you a lot.
>>733140216source
>>733131806I have yet to play a game with an anime artstyle that was genuinely above a 7/10 and trust me I tried many timesYou will not trick me yet again sir
