So, why do we hate this again /v/...?He's right, games should stop being killed so nonchalantly. What's the deal???
retards don't understand all it's proposing is providing self-hosting once a live-service game goes down
>>736958939They understand, they're simply shills It's a "leftist pretends to not understand to make discourse impossible" thing.
>>736958642>So, why do we hate this again /v/...?what the fuck are you talking about? /v/ supported it so much the corporate bootlickers started derailing the threads with cp
Americans love the taste of boots.
No smart person is against this
>>736960058So that's why they get along on twitter...
>>736958642Everyone against SKG falls into one of three categories.1. Unironic Shills and Corporate Bootlickers2. Contrarians just to be spiteful because they hate the popular thing and because they hate a subgroup that is supporting SKG (Lefties, Reddit, Commies bla bla)3. Legit Morons that don't understand what SKG is, or what SKG wants and supports. They think it's just a petition or believe the goals of SKG are 1:1 to become law or they believe it aplies retroactive or forces devs to run servers forever or to hand out proprietary code.Forget 1 and 2, they're not gonna be swayed by reason. Group 3 is the one you can maybe reach if you explain it without belittling or insulting their ego.
>>736958939And that's why I'm not supporting it. It doesn't fix the problem.
>>736958939Not even that. The way to sunset your game in a perfect SKG scenario is entirely up to the publisher and developer. Providing binaries and tools to self host is one way, but the goal would be to keep the game in a playable state. If they can achieve this with a final patch that lets it work in singleplayer, offline - or maybe with peer 2 peer instances or maybe just with a LAN mode or by making it entirely open source or anything else is entirely open.SKG isn't specifically asking for a law that explicitely demands working server software.
>>736958642>entire movement based on one unpopular game getting delisted>SKG passing won't prevent games from being delisted anywayNot joining your cult.
>>736960815every game gets delisted eventually retard unless you're still buying mint copies of super mario 64 at the store this just keeps them playable after the fact
>>736960115I am against this. Stupid gacha and multiplayer addicts need to suffer.
>>736958642Its a waste of time for everyone involved. I simply do not care.
>>736960951Are you a 1 pretending or just a spiteful 2?>>736960609
There are many people on the Internet who don't stand for anything and just say whatever will give them the most notification pips.
>>736958642idk man. I'm just thankful to Ross that Piratesoftware is seen as the clown he always was. It's borderline unhealthy how much I enjoyed his downfall
>>736958642It helps keep shifty gaas games aliveHelps strengthen the globalist EU powers to keep Basically signals to governments and global governments that gamers can not control themselves from buying shifty gaas games and need a nanny to help themMore regulation in media always helps monopolies and giant corporations, this is an undeniable truth and all good intentions of liberals trying to keep shifty corporations in check always empower them because they have the money to lobby and write those regulations in their favor.
>>736960058If you think Burgers love licking corporate boots, you should see Japs
>>736961128>With no intervention, things will simply work out as they should and nobody will use the complete lack of guardrails to consolidate increasing amounts of uncontestable power whether or not it's for everyone's best interestI don't know how anyone can even pretend to believe this unless they're actively being paid
We hate it because these retards didn't escalate it to "Stop Killing Software". It would've been so sweet to witness Total Adobe Death.
>>736961128>bootlickers>bootlickers but japanesebasedjak.webp
>>736961936You can just pirate after effects DOE
>>736962054You can pirate The Crew 1 too, making it work offline is about as much work as it is to crack Adobe software.
>>736958642If your game doesn't have a singleplayer component it isn't worth playing or preserving.
>>736961267>>736961970No arguments. Just typical more regulation = good.Ubisoft was backed and funded by government agencies and was going to go bankrupt with the free market. Now you trust an organization that funded Dustborn and is pushing online IDs to save you from purchasing shitty games but I'm the bootlicker.
>>736961936Expanding scope can happen, you take small policy wins and then use them to argue the wider ones later, otherwise you're fighting a much larger battle as your very first one.
>>736962473>more regulation = good.Yes.>b-b-but muh online IDWho the fuck here is supporting online IDs? Are you a child? Are you incapable of distinguishing two separate arguments? Do you really believe that because governments have made shitty decisions before that we shouldn't ever use the power of government to enforce basic standards to make life better?
>>736958642Why are these threads removed from /v/, how is this NOT vidya related while Asmon threads are never deleted?
>>736962139If a game can't be installed from an isolated medium, can't be independently maintained and can't be kept in internet quarantine, then it is just as vulnerable to having core features disabled as live service slop, and these are conditions that fewer and fewer games (even console games) can fulfill.Companies already push patches to disable independently available multiplayer features or drop support for even singleplayer features, trying to frame the debate as just being about GaaS slop is a distraction.For more overt examples of how this bullshittery can spiral, you just need to look at online connected smarthome devices where the original company is acquired by private equity, allowing that private equity to push patches to disable features without continued payment, and any continued unofficial support gets bombarded with C&Ds. There is nothing preventing similar things from affecting games or other software.Ideally SKG can grow to cover the breadth of software, not just games, but lobbies against right to repair would obviously be more focused on shutting it down if that were the case.
>>736962953I believe in regulation. I don't think products or services should kill you or be scams but there are already legal means of dealing with that. But you buy a shitty gaas game and now we need to put a magnifying glass over it with the biggest nannystates writing the law.
>>736963145>but there are already legal means of dealing with that.Yeah, and that's what we're using.>But you buy a shitty gaas game and now we need to put a magnifying glass over itYes.
>>736958642You should just shut up, turn your brain off, and play whatever you're ordered to play. It's time for the cattle to stop pretending that they're people and accept their lot in life as corporate slaves.
>>736963145i think modern gaas make people spend money and then "go oops haha sorry we can't put any of the work into providing any kind of offline mode because that doesn't directly make money! thanks for the money ggs" and that isn't acceptable, either self-regulate like the ESRB (you won't) or enjoy a regulatory body making sure you put modest effort into an end-of-life plan so your customers aren't forced to reverse engineer your software to continue enjoying the thing they paid for
>>736958642BECAUSE I WILL BE A CEO ONE DAY AND THIS MIGHT BOTHER ME!
>>736963124This doesn't affect me or the games I play so I kinda don't care.
>>736961103Why is Ross hitting Notim Portant from the game Hatred?
>>736961936Adobe sells subscriptions with a clear end date, it would be outside the scope of the movement regardless.
>>736962054You know the nice thing about legality? The government doesn't come to beat your ass because companies starts crying you're stealing from them, and give one less excuse for the government to push intrusive laws by being unable to claim they're doing it to save companies from the evil haxx0r 4channel stealing their bytes.
>>736963170I mean like class action and civil suits. Of course no one would ever go through this method since the judge will throw it out immediately so let's just have the government which funded Ubisoft to begin with take care of us.
>>736962473>and was going to go bankrupt with the free marketWith the free market it wouldn't have gone bankrupt because it'd just have booted all its competition out of the race by simply having more money, and forced you to buy its slop if you wanted to play video games.Congratulation, you just created an alternate universe where video game just became even shittier.
Reminder that it doesnt cost AAA companies if you pirate and reverse engineer in the bedroom
>>736958642Legislation to implement it is a mess and directly infringes on copyright rights for code and games, as well as imposing either extra burden on developers or forcing them to give up materialAs much as the intentions behind is good it's something companies should approach of their own volition as an industry to be truly effective
When is the public shit happening? I want to see the vidya industry's live response.
>>736958642/v/ support it.There is however a massive shill campaign against it from big studios who are ass-blasted that they can't take the customers hostage of their own poor business decisions.And burger posters worship corporations harder than they worship negroids and kikes, and will be hysterical at anything that big companies dislike, no matter what.
>>736960951>>No smart person is against this>"I am against this"We know Anon, we know...
>>736963801you know who ELSE pirates and reverse engineers in the bedroom
>>736958642>So, why do we hate this again /v/...?What's up with the history revisionism?/v/ does not hate SKG
>>736963751With the free market publishers would not be able to use IP as capital, stripping the reputation from talented individuals and using it to bolster their advertising and brand.Large publishers would be completely defunct.>But they'd just rip smaller people off and drive them out of businessThey already do that, it's just that they now have copyright, patents and trademark lawsuits with which they can harangue smaller companies that can't afford indefinite legal fees.>>736963868Copyright infringes on freedom of speech and SKG does not infringe on copyright to begin with or impose any extra burden that has not been wilingly accepted in the first place>>736964285 Dentists don't want you to know this simple trick, but if you can pirate and reverse engineer an appropriate cavity with an impression mold, then you were 90% of the way to having sex anyway.
>>736963349>This doesn't affect me or the games I playYet...
SKG hate is a mix of>bait that should be ignored>genuine corporate interns dispatched to protect their bosses>retarded amerimutts who have no idea what it's like to live in a country that enforces consumer rights>faggots dreaming of making it rich from their own always online live service slop.>indians who worship amerimutt companies hoping they'll get hired>actual retards who don't even know that it's like to play on a dedicated serverThat last point is especially stupid considering I saw some faggot crying that if you play on a player-hosted servers you will get hacked and infected with viruses
>>736960815>getting delistedIt's not because people can't buy the game.It's because people who already bought the game can't play it anymore.
>>736963145Regulation is worthless if it isn't enforced. Taking away the product I paid for without reimbursing me is theft. SKG wants sellers to actually be accountable for breaking laws that are already in place, but aren't enforced because the current year exploits the sellers use weren't a thing in softwares infancy. The movement is a wake up call to the powers that be.
>>736961936>It would've been so sweet to witness Total Adobe Death.Half the point is to have this potential law eventually spread to other places and protect other digital goods.Adobe would likely be fine though, since they managed to ruin everything and kill off all their original software in the move to a subscription based service a while ago.There's no way they can enforce whatever this new deal might be retroactively.
>>736958642Corporate interests.
>>736958642>So, why do we hate this again /v/...?We don't. /v/ as a whole is 100% in favor of fucking Ubisoft in the ass. There's a couple (as in literally 2) contrarians pretending otherwise and that's it.
>>736966181>200 subs literally-who tries to use arguments that out him as a know-nothingA classic.
>>736965002You will get hacked and infected with viruses though
>>736958939This cannibalizes sales of newer products. You fucking commie!>>736959159>the corporate bootlickers started derailing the threads with cpNo, that was you commies victimizing yourselves you filthy scum!>>736960609Why do you hate freedom and capitalism? Let companies own their games!
Even the japs are against SKG movementTheir Redditor brain got goywashed by this "YOU VILL NOT OWN ANYTHING AND YOU VILL BE HAPPY" MKultra shit and it shows
>>736966595I'm pretty sure there's not a single jap who likes サ終 so you can suck my dick
>>736958642We dont hate it at allhttps://2025.vidyagaemawards.com/winnersIt won the "most pointless controversy" in the 2025's /v/gas. The awards all all about shitting on pirate software and any corporate bootlicker that was against it. SKG has my full support.
>>736960609It is SKG supporters that don’t understand that what your initiative wants and what gets passed as law and what unintended consequences that result are two completely different things. SKG would kill gaming should it be passed and then you retards would still refuse to take any responsibility because of the ”but this isn’t what I wanted to happen” excuse.
>>736961103I thought that wow thing was the main factor and this was just a side factor.
>>736958642Because it's a pointless circlejerk of an excuse to talk about e-celeb bullshit under the guise of actual video game discussion. And like any online petition, it's 100% worthless digital toilet paper that will be unceremoniously discarded by the recipient and not make a bit of difference in the long run.
>>736966734>It is SKG supporters that don’t understand that what your initiative wants and what gets passed as law The initiative doesn't specify exact legislation.>SKG would kill gaming should it be passedSee above>then you retards would still refuse to take any responsibilityResponsibility for what?>”but this isn’t what I wanted to happen”You don't always get what you want. This is why the legislators meet with both the Industry and SKG.
>>736966873>Because it's a pointless circlejerk of an excuse to talk about e-celeb bullshit under the guise of actual video game discussionThis. I think the core effort of the whole thing is fine, but a huge amount of the original threads were just people gossiping over that one pirate guy and the other e-celebs that were involved.
>>736963751Every word you said is the complete opposite of reality.Enjoy your EU-funded Dustborns!
>>736966734>SKG would kill gaming should it be passedi already signed you don't have to sell it to me more. Gaming that can't exist without scam behavior should just disappear.
>>736966734just stop putting up services and pretending they're games. either>tell people it's a subscription with an end dateor>don't bake a killswitch into the game. let people host their own servers (like terraria, warcraft 3, diablo II, etc.)or>don't make the game rely on servers. release an offline patchthe only reason you kikes oppose SKG is because you'll become unable to scam people via lootboxes and microtransactions (because the goyim will be able to unlock all the skins with a mod)
>You shouldn't be asking the government to do things, they might do something you DON'T want them to do insteadI saw this argument a lot, it seems dishonestIts ignoring that the government already independently does stuff we don't like without us asking, and that the other side is already pressuring them to do things we don't want
>>736966873>>736966952So you're just spiteful contrarians that hate the e-celeb sub group supporting it? Yeah this seems about right.
>>736966918>The initiative doesn't specify exact legislation.So? My point is that it doesn’t matter because you’ll end up worse off. It has already been explained to death why SKG risks killing gaming whilst not solving any problem.>You don't always get what you want. This is why the legislators meet with both the Industry and SKG.And here is where the problem lies. They have more money than you, and better relationship with the EU than you, and can offer individuals better paid positions after their political carreer than you can. They can very easily explain to the EU why SKG as written would hurt the industry, but a ”compromise” solution could be ”benificial” to both parties where said ”compromise” would be full of loopholes for them, but raise the bar of entry for indie developers massively even if said indie devs aren’t even making GaaS or even online games at all.
>>736967172I literally said the actual goal of the campaign was fine. I just don't want to see e-celeb shit here.
>>736967213So your solution is let them roll over you you'll never win. Amazing.
>>736967213>killing gamingit won't kill the single-player games I play, so get fucked shlomostop turning games into services
>>736966968It is the non-scam gaming that will be hurt, moron. >>736967037You won’t get any of that through SKG, moron.
Commies aren't human; they're superhuman.
>>736958642Devs should be allowed to kill their games. I see nothing wrong with this, as long as the terms are made clear.
>>736967079How is it dishonest? Sounds like you agree with it.
>>736967304>legislation specifically targets subscriptions passed off as goodsthere's no way that can hurt genuine games
>>736967402No? The point is that not putting any pressure on the government to go the way you want only helps people who don't agree with that direction
>>736967559But you already conceded that they won't do what you want, because they already don't do what you want.
>>736967403>ok, mr. go- I mean consumer. we have heard your pleas. starting from today, our games will no longer be goods. they will become services with an expiry date>we hope you enjoy our new offerings you stupi- I mean valued customerHappy?
>>736967605Why would that make me happy?
>>736967672That's what SKG will cause
>>736966659Nips are outraged right now because someone made a server for Nier Reincarnation which went EoS a year ago. They're basically saying running an unofficial server is theft and morally wrong, even if all official servers have been shut down
>>736960609I would add in a 4th category, programmers and designers who are mad they might have to pratice something ethical for once, many of these people just want pure "optimization" ie they dont actually care about the human aspect or they just want to make profits, again dont care about humans
>>736967605>I can now make an informed decision to not buy a game because it's going to become unplayable in a few months>less people buy the game because they can see the expiration date>company makes less money from always online games and is therefore incentivized to make less of thoseSounds great
>>736967775not a single jap likesend of servicenot a single one
>>736967767Prove it.Otherwise I have no reason to believe you.
>>736967832The moldman literally said that one of the ways to avoid getting fined is to label your game a subscription service with an EoS date
>>736967213>My point is that it doesn’t matter because you’ll end up worse off.Explain why you retard. Not your anecdotes and feelings, point out what and why.>It has already been explained to death why SKG risks killing gaming whilst not solving any problem.You're saying this meaningles phrase because you're unable to put an argument into your own words. Try making sentences you low IQ individual. I know exactly how you faggots work, you haven't spend 5 minutes reading anything from SKG you just mindlessly rephrase some irrelevant video or article that you will link next. Use your words, moron.>And here is where the problem lies. They have more money than you, and better relationship with the EU than you, and can offer individuals better paid positions after their political carreer than you can.Meaningless defeatist bullshit in the face of the EU regulating unfair corporate practices in the face of consumer protection for decades already. Even if it were true, the open ended demands of SKG would help finding neutral ground in that scenario instead of facing downright rejection.>could be ”benificial” to both parties where said ”compromise” would be full of loopholes for themPast regulation had the same issues, that's a general and perpetual issue with law. Regulations in the past has shown this and quickly got adjusted by the EU to meet initial intentions. This isn't a problem, you still got your foot into the door.>raise the bar of entry for indie developers massivelyHow so?>even if said indie devs aren’t even making GaaS or even online games at allHow would they be affected at all then?
>>736966734Type 3.I'd say you should learn self-awareness, but honestly I think You really need to learn how to read first
>>736967903>Baseless claims that prove nothingI asked for proof, where is it?
>>736967830Yet they defend publishers who do it when people create private servers to play the game after EoS
>>736967981SKG FAQ, commie tranny
>>736967604No? I never said that. 'The government does things you don't want' is not the same as saying 'it ONLY does things you don't want'
>>736968023>I'm just gonna post unrelated shit>cherrypicked comments tooshow me one pic of japs celebrating that the game they dumped millions of yen on got shut down
>>736968051>Proves nothing>TwiceOk...
>>736968051Link the exact part and quote it you low IQ lying retard. It's not in the ECI.
>>736968060>No? I never said that.Here's where you said it.>>736967079>the government already independently does stuff we don't like without us asking>>736968060>The government does things you don't want' is not the same as saying 'it ONLY does things you don't want'Ok? I never said or implied otherwise.
>>736958642I don't get how people who are crying to the government to protect them from the results of their own purchasing decisions are so quick to call their opponents bootlickers.
>>736967830Japs are literally spineless cucks who get trained to never stand up for themselves and lick the boots of those above them, though.
>>736968208I think jewish companies need to be held accountable for being lazy jews, but I also feel no pity for retards that buy GAAS slop.
>>736968208No, we are asking the European goverment to do its job once again and slap companies for violating customer rights. Fags like you would bitch and moan about Steam adding 2 hour refunds too I bet. Something you now take for granted.
>>736967213>It has already been explained to death why SKG risks killing gaming whilst not solving any problem.ok, well you haven't explained it or pointed to anything that has. saying "my position was explained elsewhere" is just a lame attempt to try and not have to actually make an argument. if it's been explained elsewhere, if it's been explained to death like you said, then it should be pretty easy to just list out the reasons; you shouldn't even have to think about it.
>>736968370>violating customer rightsWhich rights were violated?
>>736958642This is just gonna turn every major developer to adopt their own Game Pass. The games will be free but you will own 14 subscriptions and be happy.
>>736967605That would still be a win for the effort, if just because it would thrust the existence of this liability into the face of shitloads more normies>wtf, the game will stop working one day? Why??One thing that became quite clear during the height was just how many people aren't even aware of this issue at all
>>736968419The right to own what you paid for.
>>736968181The government does do thing we want, how much and often is up for debate but it happens and only when pressured to do it in the right directionDon't ask, don't get
>>736968458Normal people know what games as a service are
>>736968523You paid for a live service game and that's what you got
>>736968419>taking away a product people legally paid for and making it unusable forever is not a violation of consumer rightsInb4 you will compare this to food or one-time cheap services.
>>736968523That's not a right.>>736968526Or, according to your own words >"do ask, don't get"
>>736968530They don't think far enough ahead about technical realities to realize the noose live-server dependencies represents though
>>736968574You still haven't named which rights were violated, and in which countries.Why not? It should be easy to prove.
>>736968574>games can't be services because they just can't okay
>>736968582Everyone knows what buying things as a service means. Everything on computers is a service now. The difference is they don't care, not that they don't understand
>>736968370>we are asking the European goverment toYeah that's my issue with it. Like the EU wasn't authoritarian enough already you assholes and low-rent Diedrich Bader had to come up with another area they could make their business. If you don't like when always online games go offline and you have nothing left then don't fucking buy them and eventually it'll stop happening.
>>736968674Again, we found out during the movement that's not the case. Lots of people didn't know and now do care
>>736968208>I can't believe there's governments doing things to protect consumers from unfair, abusive business practicesDid you know they also protect you from things like exorbitant pricing, discrimination, price-fixing, selling defective goods, contracts that are disadvantageous to you, waiving of rights, unfair contract terminations, unfair deadlines, unfair contractual penalties, unfair contract renewals, making it difficult to cancel subscriptions, and the deliberate withholding or hoarding of replacement parts?Among a lot of other things.
>>736968565>You paid for a live service gameI didn't, though. I paid for software, and EU defines software as a good. The ToS can call it whatever it wants, that doesn't mean it overrides EU law.
>>736968208>buy car, pay it in full>get phone call from manufacturer, tells me it's tied to a service agreement and that it's not optional>find out from mechanic that car works just fine even without internet if you bypass the manufacturer's lock>company rep comes to repossess car after car's "service term" expires>this is reasonable according to corporate shillsyou're jewish
>>736958939Retards don't understand that this ask is lightyears away from simple and implementing it runs up against copyright laws and basic property rights.Why do people not like SKG? Simple: it's a bunch of illiterate morons like Mossman taking all the PR and sentiment and engagement that could be used to force old always-online checks in totally local games out, and wasting it on a dumbass fever dream of forcing developers to build and release standalone servers for free.Everyone involved in this is a idiot and the "supporters" are just people seeing how well they like being in a cult
>>736968729Yeah I'm sure software as a service is a hard concept to understand it's not like everyone pays for a Netflix subscription
>>736968815The EU doesn't say software can't be a service
>>736968825wanna know why live-service games exist? to force the goyim to move on and start the game from scratch every 2-3 years for the privilege of "rebuying" everything they were told they ownedthis is what people are protesting
>>736958642>So, why do we hate this again /v/...?Because channers are contrarians.
It's extremely funny when two supporters of SKG in the same thread insist it's two completely different things.It's an end to SaaS entirely! No wait it's just no online drm checks! No wait they need to release all their microservices! No wait it has to be a discrete exe! No wait it's just a disclaimer on the store page! No wait....It's almost like you're a bunch of gullible children projecting what you think is best or most reasonable onto a petition you don't understand
>>736968907>live-service games invented sequels
>>736968821Maybe read the fine print next time before blowing your money. It's not that hard to avoid scams.
None of the opposition is real, it's either bait or genuine interference
>>736968860That would make it a subscription and if it's a subscription then it needs a clearly labeled expiration date.
>>736968574>>736968626>10 minutes later>Still nothingThanks for confirming you couldn't do it. Concession accepted.
>>736967605>>736967605>average consumer>opens steam>sees that the "Buy" button is now "Rent">alternatively the store proactively shows that the game will be unplayable in X years>"What?! This sucks!">buys a different gameThere's absolutely no way this wouldn't play out as described.
>>736968815What's wrong with your The Crew client? Did they sneak in and remove it from your pc? You don't still have it?>>736968821For your analogy to work this practice would have to have been commonplace over the last 40 years. This car thing as it is would come as a surprise to consumers. Online games have ended service and disappeared for as long as games have been online.
>>736958939>retards don't understand all it's proposing is providing self-hosting once a live-service game goes downBeing able to self-host is fucking awesome though. It's something all online multiplayer games should do.
>>736968978So we've gone from "the right to own what you paid for" to "it needs an expiration date"
>>736968419>Directive 93/13/EEC>Clauses in End User License Agreements (EULAs) that allow publishers to unilaterally terminate access "at any time, for any reason" without reasonable notice may be considered "unfair".>Unfair Commercial Practices DirectiveConsumers often have a "reasonable expectation of ownership" after purchase. Depriving them of a product they paid for can be seen as an unfair practice.>EU 2019/770Covers digital goods (this includes licenses, subscriptions) and is one of the directives SKG tries to clearly append due to not explicitly stating minimum terms for games.>Consumer Rights Directive>When a game is shut down, consumers lose access to virtual items and currencies they purchased.Your Argumentation is ofc. dishonest. SKG aims to append these defined rights on a niche not explicitly covered in the way they already aim for in other digital goods. Their intentions are pretty clear following existing rights tho.
>>736968970>just spend 5 hours researching before you commit to any monetary transaction if you don't want to get scammed bro, it's entirely reasonable :^)
>>736969009>Being able to self-host is fucking awesome though.eh not reallymultiplayer games live and die by their communitybeing able to host a game for friends isn't that important
>>736968907>I'm mad! We should abridge propert rights to appease my tantrums!No.>But they keep wiping my progress when the new game comes out!Then stop playing them.
>>736969037>Directive 93/13/EECNot a right.>Unfair Commercial Practices DirectiveNot a right.>EU 2019/770Not a right.>Consumer Rights DirectiveYou haven't said what part of this directive they have violated.Don't be scared.
>>736966567>This cannibalizes sales of newer products. You fucking commie!I know that you're memeing but LOL it's actually the opposite. You can see it with DRM free games. The older game keeps the playerbase alive and unless the new game is a massive fuckup the new game sells more than the older game did since it already has an install base of people.>look at The Witcher series>look at the Divinity:Original Sin series
>>736969001>For your analogy to work this practice would have to have been commonplace over the last 40 years.>pretending that it's normal to steal people's moneyjesus christ you're one shameless kike, I'll give you that
>>736968978How are publishers supposed to know the future of a game that hasn't yet gone to the market? Are you guys actually industry plants trying to get people to accept sequels to live service games?
>>736969038>It takes 5 hours to find out if a game is an always online, gaas piece of shit.Maybe if you're retarded.
>>736968993You're delusional m8There would be literally no changeNo one fucking cares that games are licensesThey always have veeny
>>736969049Its the difference between a game being playable for the rest of eternity or briefly for a short time and then something that only exists in videos and screenshots forever
>>736969123Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I literally did.
>>736969129>jesus christ you're one shameless kikeI'm not the one pretending to be scared and confused when an online game shut down.
>>736969179most games arent worth being playable for eternity
>>736958642>What's the deal???Nothing. This is a perfectly reasonable demand. I spent money on this game, I should be able to play it whenever I want. I should be able to host a private LAN server. All arguments against it always boil down to>NOOOO THINK OF THE POOR CORPORATIONS!!!!
>>736969184So what part of the right did they violate?Answer the question.
>>736969001>The CrewThey rendered it unsuable, ie: destroyed it. Intentionally even. That's destruction of property.>>736969010>hurr i'm a brown retard that stinks of curryIt's either owning the product you paid for, or be informed ahead of purchase that there is an expiration date and exactly when that date it.
>Le jew demands you point out exactly what line of legalese makes what he's doing wrong that literally everyone can clearly see is jewish as fuck or else you can't call it wrong
>>736969037>Openly admitting no rights as written have been breached and SKG is attempting to expand those definitions Great! Now that we've established that no laws have been broken or rights denied we can move forward:Your ask would violate the property rights of developers, place an extreme and undue burden on the entire software industry, and has no clear benefit to a majority of consumers.It is a stupid ask, one a literal child might make, despite attempts at pretention.We hear your request and deny it.
>>736968984You do realize Ubisoft is being sued right now for violating customer rights?The average anon doesn't know the law, but it's not the average anon suing them.I don't have to cite anything, I'm not a lawyer. The people suing ubisoft, are, in fact, lawyers, however.
>>736969250I thought this movement was about destroying games as a service
>too scared to prove himself right
>>736969250>They rendered it unsuable, ie: destroyed it. Intentionally even. That's destruction of property.They destroyed your client for the Crew? How did they get access to your files?
>>736969250>That's destruction of property Whose property was it?Think hard.No, the answer is not "yours."
>>736969308Maybe read the FAQ next time.
>>736969302Retarded cops sued Afroman for showing everyone how retarded they were. Did the act of suing him mean their case had merit?
pirate won, the movement is deader than his stream
>>736969302Which ones? Post a link.>I don't have to cite anythingThen we don't have to believe you. Thanks for conceding.
>>736969314>Did they destroy your CLIENT for the game?!Nice try kike
>>736969132That's their problem. If they want to put a timelimit on a game then a potential consumer should be informed when exactly that timelimit expires. Or, and hear me out because this is going to blow your mind, they could drop the gaas cancer and go back to making new games worth buying instead of making trash they can't sell without breaking the law to remove competition first.
>>736969285It was the literal unquestioned norm 20 years ago that every multiplayer came with by default standard, oh such a burden
>>736969308See >>736968930It's whatever that individual anon thinks is most reasonable or expedient for his argument
>>736967605>live service games have to announce their shutdown date on packaging and storepages>along with a warning that access to all in game purchases, subscriptions and virtual currency will disappear on that date>and a warning that it could be shutdown at any time prior to end of service with no warning>all in big, consumer scaring font>if they commit to providing self hosting servers/an offline patch on expiry they don't have to display the warningThat would make me very happy, thanks for asking.
>>736969362I didIt's very unclear what exactly they aim to doWhat they usually say is "all games need an end-of-life plan" or "games as a service shouldn't exist" which is entirely unreasonable to "GaaS should have a clearly defined expirations date" which is reasonable
>>736968825>lightyears away from simple and implementing it runs up against copyright laws and basic property rightsthis has been done for games since DOOM in the 90s btw
>>736969408>breaking the lawWhat law is being broken? In which country?
>>736969136>just ignore the other 499 pages of legalese, they're probably full of poetry anyway
>>736969240In Detail:>The Right to Goods in Conformity with the Contract>The Right to Pre-Contractual Information>The Right to Protection from Unfair Contract TermsBut you know that. All of these directives are the legal frameworks under which your basic consumer rights can be argued for in alignment with basic contract rights. I'm sure you will dismiss that in a single statement tho because you're arguing in bad faith.I stated before that SKG aims to clarify and strengthen this position.
>>736969378Your crying won't make the lawsuit any less real.
>>736960692Lol ferrets
>stop trying to do anything, nothing might happen!>just wait bro, it'll get better eventually, we just have to hit rock bottom first
>>736969410Oh but hey would you look at that, software development didn't freeze in time 20 years ago!Too bad, dipshit.>>736969440>Oh god I'm so retarded please rape my faceWhat year is it?
>>736969383What is it you think you're buying? Ubisoft probably paid about 14 million to develop the crew. If you didn't pay them a similar amount you probably weren't buying all of the crew, all of the files, all of the hardware it's running on but instead you probably bought a client that allowed you to access their game online.
>>736969439>It's very unclear what exactly they aim to doNo, it's really not. You and retards like >>736968930 want to pretend it is so you can dismiss it entirelyAlso>all games need an end-of-life plan>completely unreasonableAnd this is why you're losing. You will not convince customers to side with you on this side of the argument, it just doesnt make any sense to say an offline mode is "completely unreasonable".
>>736969476>The Right to Goods in Conformity with the ContractQuote the exact part they violated, or we can't move on.Go ahead.
>>736958642I'm just pretending because I'm getting paid by a lobbying group.
>>736969361That copy of the game is actually my property. Which they destroyed, by rendering it unable to execute it's intended purpose.No, the intended purpose isn't just booting the game.
>>736969408>Or, and hear me out because this is going to blow your mind, they could drop the gaas cancer and go back to making new games worth buyingYou know that the reason they don't do this is retards like you buy the GAAS games, right? Maybe you should stop if you don't want them to exist.
>>736969540I literally just gave an example of 3 conflicting answers that have been posted in this very threadWhich one is correct?
>>736969476You already admitted it doesn't violate any of those, which is why you're trying yo expand their definitions (in a very stupid way)>>736969495More like>Stop throwing time and money and loyalty to retards that were doomed to failure from the startIf Mossman weren't such a stubborn moron we might have a chance at always online checks getting removed when the auth server dies.Instead we get nothing.
>>736968825It is simple, because studios simply won't be using software that goes against the law, meaning that the software that goes against the law will have to change their terms or go out of business. This law is a big man with a big stick saying "stop stealing from your customers or get beaten to death". Like all other laws against theft. This is a good thing.
>>736969520>What is it you think you're buying?What they're advertising. >Ok and what are they advertising?Answering that question is one part of the lawsuit.Again, nice try, kike. But Im better at this than you are.
>>736969576>That copy of the game is actually my propertyNo, you just paid a licence to access it.You don't own it, just like all digital goods.
>>736969520You're buying a digital good. Under current law "digital content must be fit for the purpose for which it was sold." In terms of licenses, the unfair contract terms directive protects you from clauses in EULAs that create a significant imbalance in rights too. We're not in america.
>>736969049Yeah, and self-hosting lets the community keep the game alive once the bean counters at the publisher decide that they can make $500 more per year by turning the servers off.
>>736969626>software as a service is stealing from your customerswhat's your IQ
>>736969606>3 conflicting answersConflicting how? All of them are essentially>Games should have an offline mode so they're playable after EoSWhere's the conflict?
>>736969576Your client would still try to access their servers if you booted it up.
>>736966781>guy telling you that you only managed to open the jar because he loosened it up Well, the clown survived the main factor, but lost 80% of his audience and 95% of his reputation due to the side factor.
>>736969673>Games should have an offline mode so they're playable after EoSIs not>Games should have a clearly labeled expiration date
>>736969653>Under current law "digital content must be fit for the purpose for which it was sold."Which countries law is that? Where did you get the quote from? Link your source.
>>736969626>It's simple, we'll just narrowly restrict all software development in a way that utterly collapses the industry overnight!>All for the sake of whining browns and children obsessed with terrible video games that don't understand what copyright islollmaoGrow up
>>736969653No, America has the right to free speech, bootlicker
>>736969578No. Even though the last 5 magic beans I bought were fake, I'm still gonna buy another and complain about it. After all, it's not like I have any agency in what I buy.
>>736961128>Helps strengthen the globalist EU powers to keepIt's nice when the globalist EU is forcing companies to not fuck me over for once. They are doing a lot of great consumer protection stuff, and it would be retarded to reject the good because they are also a western government that does western government things. >More regulation in media always helps monopolies and giant corporations,Yeah, the smartphone market is only the way it is, because the EU forced them to allow side loading of apps and use reasonable chargers. Australia forcing online game stores to allow refunds was also very bad.How does the boot taste, disgusting ancap corpo slave?
>>736969542I just did, you quoted it.If you want an explanation for the argument you can make with the directive; It's that a game that is or was sold as a purchase to you, was later disabled and no longer conforms to what was sold and promised to you. Eg. The consumer can't access core functionality which breaks the conformity with the contract.
>>736969458Stealing. All of them.
>>736969724>>Games should have an offline mode so they're playable after EoS>And If this is not possible for some reason>that game should have a clearly labeled expiration dateAs explained by >>736969250Again, completely consistent with SKG and the faq. No contradictions anywhere.What's wrong, shill? Is this the best you can do?
>>736961936Yeah, very rude that they are focusing on something that can win, rather than asking for free ponies for everyone on top of that. The fuck do you think is going to happen once killing games becomes illegal? Free ponies is what's gonna happen. Sorry about your photoshop.
>>736969797>No links>No sourcesI accept your concession. Thanks for confirming you have no sources, because you made that "law" up.>>736969806What was stolen? Be specific please.
>>736969515Jewish bullshit development didn't stop you meanIt's not 'development' for software to start tossing in remote kill switches
>>736969610>You already admitted it doesn't violate any of thoseNo I said it's an unchallenged legal battlefield that was never challenged because it doesn't explicitly adapts to games. But even if I agreed with you, SKG still aims to change it. So there's very little merit to interpretation of the current law.The goal is to append it if it doesn't violate current law. The argument can be made based on the intentions of existing law tho.
>>736968825Begone shill, we will own our games and we will be happy
>>736969834Now we have even more positionsGames must have an EoL plan or an expiration dateGames must have an EoL plan but if this isn't possible they can have an expiration dateSome of these positions are reasonable and some aren't, you aren't clear about which one it actually is
>>736969629good morning sirThat argument only works in burgerland. Not the EU.>>736969687Which it can't reach. Because that's how they destroyed it.
> I went to your restaurant once and now you owe me your pasta recipeCan we not?...
>>736966873>>736966952Anon, it's too late for the "just give up, it's pointless" style of attacks. It already happened and is well underway. You've lost. Your crying was for nothing. You will get rights even if you'd rather be a slave.
>>736969797Anon you already admitted you need to expand the definitions to make any of these games in violation That means they are not in violation What part of that is too hard for you?You cannot argue legality after admitting no legal standard was broken. You have to argue why changing the law would be a good thing.So far arguments against involve the fact that it would fundamentally violate the basics of copyright law and IP ownership when it comes to software, it would be a massive and undue burden on developers of all sizes, it needlessly and narrowly limits the ways software can be developed, and would have a deeply chilling effect on that sector of the economy.So far arguments for are "I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT GIMME GIMME GIMME"Gee I wonder who legislature will side with
>>736967604>>736967402>>736968181based dishonesty maxer maliciously pretending to not understand what's being said
>>736969728https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32019L0770This is european union law. Because it is a directive it's required to be turned into national law by all EU Member States. And has been in full effect across the bloc since 2021. Name a country and I can probably source precise national law for you.
>>736958642nothing will happen because gaymers are a minority in the broad consumer market, and that minority has no principles and will keep buying games that do this shit, everyone else sees this and laughs since gaymen are so weak on their stated principles that they still buy from these evil companies that wants to fuck them over, again and again, instead they cry to some supranational entity to protect them from their retardation, it's pathetic really
>>736969864>What was stolen? Be specific please.Core functionality of the product I bought, intentionally rendering it unable to perform it's intended function.
>>736969910I live in the EU. We still have licenses for digital goods, we don't own them.Why do you think otherwise?
>>736968208It's because you are licking the boot while >we are getting some big retard to beat up the guy wearing the boots. Simple. >>736968565No, I paid to own the game. Some retarded lawyer working for that company might have done a gay raindance to claim that I didn't, but I'm not a bootlicker, so I don't give a fuck what that scoundrel is dreaming up. He's trying to steal from me and I'm saying no.
If the bullshit isn't illegal, then we want it to BE illegaldo you get that pedant jew retardsLawyers will figure out the actual bullshit of it all 'oh you can't have this jewish practice fucked off because you can't explain everything in perfect legalse' piss off
>>736969873>Elastic microservices and licensed middleware is just a killswitch!This is why SKG is doomed You're all fucking retarded and even some boomer politician can tell
>>736970034Ignorance is not an excuse, you can't say "I thought I was buying X" when you were never buying X and nobody told you you were buying X
>>736967775they're outraged that somebody is distributing the game without consent of the license holder.not that the game is now available again.it's the fact that a law is being broken and it's being done so against the wishes of the license holder for the game that's causing the outrage there. if it was perfectly legal, or if the Nier Reicarnation development team/publisher had to provide some way to access the game through legal means indefinitely then this obviously wouldn't be a problem.
>>736970004Cool, thanks for the link.Now please show me the part where it says "digital content must be fit for the purpose for which it was sold."Thanks.
>>736969864You need a link and source for basic contract law? Sure... which country? Or do you want the EU directive regarding digital goods? Be more specific.
>>736969909SKG "fans" have no idea what position it takes, but you can bet that if they articulate a reasonable one (like a warning on the store page) it's wrong.
>>736969132Exactly, that's why those publishers need to have an end of life plan to make sure that their customers can keep using the good they paid for after the publisher no longer wants to host the servers themselves. There is a reason why you can still play all of your games from the 90s. The reason is that killing games isn't something that comes natural, but something that needs modern technology to be artificially induced. SKG isn't asking for devs to do more, it's asking for them to do less - to not add a killswitch to their product.
>>736969909>Games must have an EoL plan or an expiration date>Games must have an EoL plan but if this isn't possible they MUST have an expiration dateboth of these are the same thing you lying retard. >Some of these positions are reasonable and some aren'tWrong on both fronts. It's one position and it's perfectly reasonable as I stated earlier, it just doesnt make any sense to say an offline mode is "completely unreasonable".Or will you move the goalpost and say putting a "PLAYABLE UNTIL" sticker on the game is unreasonable instead and make a bigger fool of yourself?
>>736970018>I live in the EUNo you don't. Be careful when you pull a pic from the drive to prove otherwise. One of your colleagues might have used it before :^)
>>736970093The ones you quoted in this post.>>736969476Thanks!
>>736970123>both of these are the same thing you lying retard.No they aren't. In the first case the developer can choose, in the later case they cannot choose and can only choose one if they can't choose the other
>>736970037>>736970034Is this how you fucking idiot kids think the world works You get mad, hire a goon, and suddenly the law works the way you want it to?Apropos of nothing: did you know the average IQ of an Indian poster is around 80? Just something to chew on.
>>736970096and stop samefagging your pilpul you hooknosed rat
>>736969912A food analogy like that really isn't applicable here. You're paying for the meal and service for that specific meal.Something more apt would be:>buy a car>car runs perfectly fine without any outside help>company that made the car goes bankrupt and comes to your house to take out the car's engine so it can no longer run>you weren't told this would happen when buying the car (or if you were it was extremely vague with no designated expiration date even though you clearly bought a product and not a service)
>>736970127>No you don'tYes, I do.
>>736968717Were you also against Australians asking their governments to enforce their right for a refunds on software retailers? >If you don't like when always online games go offline and you have nothing left then don't fucking buy themI will buy them, I will refund them if I don't like them and if keep the game I will own it and I will be happy. Sorry that offends you. Laws are there to guarantee that having nice things is possible. Being able to boot up Diablo 1 and play it right now is a nice thing and there is no reason why what is true for Diablo 1 shouldn't be true for modern games.
>>736958642It's called "Social proof" all of these companies have dedicated viral marketing teams that they just gave prompts for this. >>736960058These agencies are usually Indian. >>736960815Delisted =/= Getting shut downWe have hundreds of examples of them remotely breaking people's games, and hundreds of examples of them delisting games without breaking them. >>736968825>It's lightyears away from implementing>Ignore that we literally hadn't invented a way to kill games until the late 90s, and have done it countless times since then. We don't even have many companies older than 2022 that haven't done it. It's literally harder from a technical standpoint to kill games.
>>736970179The average iq of a Muslim is 60.Inbred freaks is why.
>>736970091"In addition to complying with any subjective requirement for conformity, the digital content or digital service shall: (a) be fit for the purposes for which digital content or digital services of the same type would normally be used..."
>>736970159>and can only choose one if they can't choose the otherwhich they always can since the "other" option you're referring to is adding an offline mode.They are the same. And the reason you're trying to argue this point is because your "unreasonable demand" line doesnt work in any context
>>736970148Sure which country?
>>736970179Do you know what lobbying is retard? Big squillionare corpos already do such things, 'I'll pay you to apply pressure until the law changes to be the way we want'Oh but fuck forbid normies do it too, then its just plain wrong
>>736970004Interesting, even if it's not a national law.> Remedies for lack of conformity> In the case of a lack of conformity, the consumer shall be entitled to have the digital content or digital service brought into conformity, to receive a proportionate reduction in the price, or to terminate the contract> digital service brought into conformity, unless this would be impossible or would impose costs on the trader that would be disproportionateSo the servers are down and therefore you get to terminate your contract. Problem solved? No one is taking disproportionate expenses to give you an offline version, that's for sure.
>>736970286first option is "choose X or Y"second option is "do X, only if you can't do X can you do Y"These are fundamentally different
>>736968429What's more likely, every major publisher setting billions of dollars on fire risking their entire existence, or them simple firing the people who are responsible for making sure the game doesn't work without their central server? >>736968930>It's an end to SaaS entirely! Nobody actually thinks that outside of schizoid retards who are against it. SKG is very clear in what it is and isn't.
>>736970250>40 years ago software was different!It sure was, champ, now get back in the classroom it's coloring time. Please don't eat the crayons today.
>>736970337Sure, a full refund at the end of service would be fair. No issue there. I'm with you.
>>736969912>I went to the restaurant once and the waiter stole my food after I took the first bite >tells me their 900 page ToS allows him to do that and I'm not getting my money back Sorry, anon. But once I'm in charge that waiter, restaurant owner and you are all in the same one-person jail cell.
>>736970270Thanks.Now tell me what is violating that law exactly, and how.Be sure to relate it back to the exact phrase you quoted, so we can confirm it's accurate.>>736970321You tell me, you quoted them.Or are yoy admitting you made them up now?
>>736970270>Purchases of the same typeLmao you just made his argument for him you illiterate motherfucker >>736970330>DURR THAT'S CALLED LOBBYINGholy shit, kid, don't hurt yourself stretching that hard
>>736970121>the inability to foresee the future is why they need a plan which would require the ability to foresee the future Come on, anon.>>736970245Yeah because I liked flash sales but don't really give a fuck about aussies other than generic approval
>>736970353>SKG is very clear in what it is and isn't.lollmaoEven Mossman's shit is self-contradictoryThis is a movement for people with very low IQs and very lonely people that need to feel like they're part of something, -anything-It genuinely makes me sad that people are this stupid and angry and lonely.
>>736970343>only if you can't do X can you do Y You omitted the part where X is always available. Funny, isnt it? You went from claiming "3 conflicting answers" to arguing pedantics about two that mean the same thing. So much for that prompt.
>>736970006>nothing will happenOther times when nothing happened: >Forced Apple to use USB-C on iPhones.>Forced Apple to open up iOS to third-party storefronts.>Forced Apple to open up iOS to sideloading apps.>Forced Apple to drop the restrictions on in-program payments having to go through the Apple Store.>Forced Apple to drop the commission on transactions not going through the Apple Store.>Forced Apple to offer browser choice.>Forced Google to offer browser choice.>orced Google to be clear about their privacy policies.>Forced Google to stop connecting data about users across multiple services.>Forced Google to drop the restrictions on in-program payments having to go through the Play Store.>Forced Google to drop the commission on transactions not going through the Play Store.>Forced Meta to be clear about their privacy policies.>Forced Meta to stop connecting data about users across multiple services.>Forced Meta to not be able to press tracking ads on users under the legal grounds of 'legitimate interest' or 'necessity of contract'>Forced Microsoft to offer browser choice.>Forced Microsoft to loosen their hold over Windows Update and when it installs updates.>Forced Microsoft to respect users' browser choice and not try to weasel in Edge everywhere.>Forced Microsoft to make Edge uninstallable.>Forced Microsoft to turn down the level of telemetry sent by Windows.The EU has a long history of forcing companies to be a bit more reasonable towards their customers. I understand that in certain parts of the world this sounds like something straight out of a fairy tale. But consumer rights are real and can be enforced. You are fighting against your own interests by repeating corporate propaganda about how not getting fucked over is communism. Winners understand their strength and use it to get what they want. Winners don't care about a billionaire crying how that isn't fair.
>>736970185Or even more realistically>company requires your car to connect to its servers before it starts up to collect data>company decides to brick your car because it's too "old" or "unsafe" or some other bullshit reason
>>736970521If X is always available then why would Y be listed as an option? In that case it's just "do X" and if X is unreasonable which it is then this premise is unreasonableYou're failing at basic logic here, not very good if you want to discuss the lawIt's unreasonable to force developers to make their game in a certain way when a less intrusive option exists - clearly labelled expiration date or a refund
>>736970449>Now tell me what is violating that law exactly, and how. Product is terminated and doesn't have the core functionality it had when I purchased it. Aka broke contract conformity. >complying with any subjective requirement for conformity>You tell me, you quoted them.Or are yoy admitting you made them up now? I, in fact, don't know the exact wording of every national law in the bloc regarding an EU directive that has to be made into national law by the entire bloc. Just name a country or are you saying any country is fine? That makes it easy for me, sure.
>>736970606>>736970606>If X is always available then why would Y be listed as an option?So your rat bastard kike lawyers cant use "lack of alternative options" as an excuse to weasel their way out of the lawsuit.
>we need daddy government to save our games!!!I would beat this dude to death if I got the chance
>>736970542Anon if you think this has anything remotely to do with valid right-to-repair movements you're even dumber than I thought and I thought you were DUUUUMB.You're not a farmer wrestling with a tractor needed to grow crops for the country because John Deere locked you out, you're a pathetic child begging video game developers to stop using modern software stacks entirely.I'm sorry, this is not a moral crusade. If you want to go on a moral crusade there are so so many valid ones to fight right now. This isn't one of them.
>>736970620>Product is terminated and doesn't have the core functionality it had when I purchased itIn what way? Be specific. You are dealing with the law, you have to be as autistic as me to continue.Thanks for confirming your "quotes" were made up earlier, btw. We can put that discussion to bed now.
>>736970423>Buy a game that clearly states it's an online only game.>Game has a big "internet required" sticker.>Spend money on it and act surprised when it shuts down and can't play it anymore.Game companies are scum for allowing these kinds of games, but let's not pretend that the people buying them are victims that were tricked with a very fine print. People want slop, will buy slop and no matter how many times that slop gets taken away, they'll still buy more. They're just as much of a problem as the game companies.
>>736970595Any analogy involving a physical object is immediately retardedYou are retardedSoftware is a recipe. A set of replicable instructions. Not a car.
>>736970697So we're back to EoL plan or if that isn't possible expiration datewhich is both unenforceable (how do you prove an EoL plan isn't possible?) and unreasonable because expiration dates and refunds are the most reasonable option for everyone involved, don't force devs to make games in a certain way, don't hand out a game that doesn't really work as an "EoL plan" to consumers, just consumers who know what they're buying
>>736970726Where on my receipt or the box does it tell me when the game is going to shut down if it's a service?
>>736970449>>736970620I chose Germany because they're the biggest country. >The Right to Goods in Conformity with the Contracthttps://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__327e.html>The Right to Pre-Contractual Informationhttps://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__312d.html>The Right to Protection from Unfair Contract Termshttps://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__305.htmlhttps://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.htmlhttps://www.trans-lex.org/600100Do you also want something in regard to a specific directive?
>>736969610>Stop throwing time and money and loyaltyWeird non-sequitur. Who's "throwing time and money and loyalty" toward anybody here, or even suggesting such a thing?
>>736970719Anon what are you doingThe quote they gave didn't say it had to fulfill its core function frever or whatever the fuck It said it had to have the same function as similar productsBy his definition the fact that all games with privately held server code eventually stop working means it meets the standard and there's no violation.
>>736970835Anon are you completely lost?What thread do you think you're in right now?
>>736970825Quote the exact part of each link that prove your claim right. Thanks.Also you still haven't answered this.>>736970719>In what way? Be specific.
>>736960609What about people who (correctly) think that bottom of the barrel GAAS garbage isn't worth saving, and that the time, money, and effort being squandered in your retarded excuse for a movement would be better spend doing literally anything else.
>>736970542Okay anon, have fun with your usb-c still in 20 years when asia has moved past it.
>>736970819The big label that says "internet required". That is a big indication that the game will eventually be shut down and you will never be able to play it again. That right there is the key to knowing if you should waste your money or not.
>>736970719I don't know how to make it even clearer than product doesn't do what it promised to do when you bought it. If you don't want to engage in this discussion or just want to ignore the quotes, information or dismiss everything maliciously you can just stop.
>>736970797>So we're back to EoL plan or if that isn't possible expiration dateThat was ALWAYS the position retard, see >which is both unenforceable (how do you prove an EoL plan isn't possible?) How do you prove an offline mode isnt possible? >and unreasonable because expiration dates and refunds are the most reasonable optionSo it's unreasonable because you say giving the money they earned back is more reasonable?>don't force devs to make games in a certain wayAdding an offline mode is forcing devs to make games a certain way?For an armchair lawyer defending corporations you're terrible at-no wait, I guess that's to be expected.
>>736970913This practice affects every game with a live-server dependency, not just trash like Concord and such
>>736970949>Adding an offline mode is forcing devs to make games a certain way?Yes. The least intrusive way to do things is to let developers make anything they want, but they have to clearly tell you what you're buying so you can choose if you want to buy it or not. Maximum freedom for both sides. If an online game shuts down prematurely or unexpectedly, they can offer a refund (which is what happens already afaik like with flops like Concord)
>>736970945>Dodges the question>AgainIf you are refusing to participate in the discussion, this is where you lose.Want to keep going? Or do you give up?
>>736958642Because over the past 10 years, 4chan has had an influx of shitter twitter jeets that genuinely bought into the memes and--for a myriad of reasons, most of which gay--made their whole hobby into hating video games and wanting to see them all go down in flames.The problem is that it's very easy to point out that the behavior is beyond faggy and strange when you could instead get your jollies playing the actually good video games out there. As such, they've gone on a crusade trying to shit on everything harder and change the context so that their faggotry isn't easily deflated anymore. Indie games are fun and great and varied? No, actually we'll try to paint all of them as just being depression quests and deckbuilding roguelikes. Modding and sourceports heavily extend the gameplay of older games? No, can't have that, so uh, actually every modder on the planet is trannies and using any of the mods or patches or updates is trannies, stop using them!! SKG then is another problem to them, as a common source of joy for them is performatively whining about the lack of private hosting for games and taking glee in the idea of a game going away forever if it loses centralized service. Not only would this be taken away by SKG, but if they try to go "well it's still publicly dead" they're easily deflated by "you just need to get 7 other people if you want to play, that's nothing, what kind of loser are you?" As such, it becomes important to lie as much about SKG as possible, or failing that, frame it as being gay or some shit
I think SKG's strongest argument is with single player games that have online-only DRM check for whatever reason. Heroes 6 comes to mind to this, you can't even play the game with DLC now, it's a mess. I think publishers do have a reasonable argument when it comes to ambitious online-only games. If they allow players to run their own infrastructure, who would be legally liable for customer data protection and moderation?Licensing stuff like music could also become problematic. I think legislators would have to build a whole legal framework around SKG to make it work.It also says nothing about delisting games, just that whatever games you have remain in a somewhat playable state.
>>736970386>40 years ago we were lightyears ahead of where we are nowNo you idiot, people are still able to do it. It isn't lost technology. Companies that aren't trying to boost sales of their next product by bricking their old products can do it just fine. We have not technologically regressed, they're doing it on purpose as a deliberate sales tactic.
When did people just completely stop understanding the absolute basics of how software worksEven dudebro mountain dew dorito master chief gamers understood things like servers and clients and online services.iPad babies were a mistake.You kids literally think of software like a magic spell
>>736971026I feel like music licenses are a war nobody will ever win. The music industry is so massively jewish that not a single person can win against them, not even other jews.
>>736970978Yes online games have always ended service. Stop fucking crying about it like it's something new and move the fuck on.org
>>736970774That logic only makes sense if you're a cucknow kill yourself pajeet
>>736971070Anon this post is for you: >>736971094Maybe don't comment on software logistics when you clearly have never once opened an IDE
>>736970912>Quote the exact part of each link that prove your claim right.Each of these in its entirety lays down legal principles in regard to these very fundamental contract laws. There's nothing for me to condense here unless you narrowly specify.I believe my selection of legal text is very accurate for each of them. Feel free to make your own argument or point out inaccuracies.>Also you still haven't answered this. >>736970719 # >In what way? Be specificSorry anon, same response. You can't just dismiss information you asked for and keep asking for more elemental definition. We reached the bottom, either you pick up something and make your own argument in the contrary to the information provided or there's nothing left to do. See my reply above.
>>736971158>No quotesThen you lose. I accept your concession.Why are you so afraid of doing this? I don't get it.
>>736970904A thread about a consumer rights movement. I've answered your question, now answer mine.
>>736970930That doesn't tell me anything about when the game service shuts down. If it's a service then I need to know how long the service will last as a paying customer.If it's not a service but instead a normal product then why is there a service-related killswitch?
>>736971121No? There are plenty of multiplayer-first games from yesteryear whose devs no longer even exist yet still can be played over the internet fine, private server functions literally used to be the norm that no on even thought about
>>736970913>What about people who (correctly) think that bottom of the barrel GAAS garbage isn't worth savingI'm sure they'd understand that anything that makes GAAS shit less attractive of a prospect for companies seems like a win to me.
>>736971020>>736971195Anon, the fact that you're going on about winning and losing alone shows how bad your intentions are interacting with the information provided. I called the bad faith argumentation out before but thanks for downright admitting to it.I'm actually not that invested the same level you are in winning anything here. I'm here to reply if you want to go on about something specific or want more information to popular EU directives. Let me know.
>>736958642I think these guys are morons for doing this at a time where the best example-case they have is The Crew lead by a guy who can't groom himself.
>>736971019>Yes, adding an option to let you play the game locally with files you've downloaded already is "forcing the devs to make games a certain way"Because you say so? I dont see anything to back this narrative. Guess we're not done yet>If an online game shuts down prematurely or unexpectedly, they can offer a refund Does that include the money they made from MTX while the game was alive? Be specific
>>736958642"we" don't hate it, its indian paid posters that hate it.
>>736971329>Loses>Replies again>STILL can't prove his own claims true with legal quotes>And on top of all that, he dodged my question. Again.Reply again, this is fucking hilarious!
>>736969731>in a way that utterly collapses the industry overnight!Its not gonna do that, but it would be great if it did.
>>736969426>That would make me very happyOf course it would you SKGtranny
>>736971094>>736971151Why do you think running a server is some kind of black magic. Its stupid simple. You can run your own WoW server right now if you want. I've done it before.
>>736971346>I don't understand how making a game run all of its logic locally is different from running logic on a separate server or services That's because you're stupid.
>>736971271Some online games not ending service doesn't mean that other online games have always kept going. It has always been the case that online games can disappear ever since games went online.
>>736971346>>Yes, adding an option to let you play the game locally with files you've downloaded already is "forcing the devs to make games a certain way"For games that depend on servers yeah it is>Does that include the money they made from MTX while the game was alive? Be specificEverything you paid for
>>736971564Some? Most, bro. The online games from before this practice came about that we literally can't play anymore are the rare exception (some MMOs?)The 'its just not possible' opposition angle is built on gaslighting
>>736971220There is no way for them to know when exactly the game will be shut down. Anything could happen at any point and the game could be shut down in a month or it could last for years. And until someone enforces them to incorporate a way to play without that connection, you're at their mercy. Buying an always online game is a total gamble and it's up to you to decide if you want to trust it or not.
>>736971514>No U!You tried.I'd explain things like kubernetes clusters and licensed microservices to you but you can't afford my consulting fee.>Force people not to use those by law! Limit development to thirty year old frameworks!No.
>>736971531>game run ALL of its logic locally >running logic on a separate server or servicesI'm loving this victory lap.Be clear, kike. Do you mean ALL of its logic on a separate server (ie always online games that dont install files locally), or SOME of the logic that can be replicated client-side? Because your memetext is comparing two very different things.
>>736971650>For games that depend on servers yeah it isLet the players host their own local servers then. Problem solved.
>>736971662Games like Age of Empires II, Diablo II and Warcraft III are simply not possible anymore. It's a lost art. Just embrace the cloud.
>>736971361The irony, of course, is that none of its supporters are Americans.Everyone supporting this is BR or Indian or SEAWhich explains why the average poster in support of SKG talks like someone that was repeatedly struck about the head.
>>736971151You fucking retard, they didn't "understand" that, because they can all literally go play Halo online right now, you absolute dingus. I can hop onto a fresh install of Halo CE, on a windows XP machine, and begin playing right now. I could have went, and played Halo 3 right now, but they literally patched it to break it when they released the "Master Chief Collection"They broke their existing products to force people to buy the new products.
>>736971669Then it's a good thing SKG is moving forward so we hopefully get a proper solution for these paradoxical services.
>Oh bro, the remote kill switch we installed in the product is just SO COMPLEX, its really not reasonable of you to ask us to just give you what you need to remove it
>>736971684>A game running all of its logic on a separate server and a game running some of its logic on a separate server are very different!lol no they aren't Not functionally and not for this argument You're a moron and an ESL
>>736971736You've solved the problem by forcing developers to make their game in a specific wayRefunds and guarantees solve this problem without limiting hte creative freedom of developers, and a refund is actually better than just having a server app dumped on you and saying "here host your own instance"
>>736971749>No u pajeet! No u dumb!Kek
>>736971749You mean other than the face of the movement?
>>736970726>Game has a big "internet required" sticker.>have internet>can't play the gameUh-huh.
>>736971749Lmao wowCase in point: >>736971752Fucking embarrassing Brown dunning-kruger victims everywhere
>>736971821>letting players host their own servers is forcing developers to make their game in a specific wayHow? >better than just having a server app dumped on you and saying "here host your own instance"Why?
>>736971821Obviously game companies aren't going to want to undo the entire profit of the game they sold to millions of people by a refundAnd realistically not every person interested in playing the game beyond its EOS needs to know how and bother to setup all the server shit, it only takes a few tech-knowledged fans to run it for everyone else
>>736971662It's not that it isn't possible, it's that when you act shocked and wail, "how can this be!" we know you're full of shit. And it ain't that fucking rare, this page is only scratching the surface. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Inactive_massively_multiplayer_online_games
>>736958642>I LOVE HAVING THE GOVERNMENT REGULATE EVERYTHINGthis is how people sound that supports stop killing gamesit's a retarded idea and people are only looking at it from the perspective of a "gamer"
>>736958642>Retards complaining that their cancerware globohomo putrid shit doesn't work anymore, and they want government daddy to help them play that slop forever.Yeah, I don't like those people, they are faggots.If a company applies bad practices, then don't even buy their games anymore,buy from gog, support indies, etcIt is not that fucking complicated,but I guess weak people just want the government involved in everything....which is pathetic
>>736971783>Then it's a good thing SKG is moving forwardI agree. But until these companies have a real boot up their ass, it's up to the consumer to make reasonable decisions and do a little bit of research.
>>736971852Mossman (nice face, a literal retard that struggles to wash and can't figure out how to play piss easy games) lives in Poland.
>>736971818>>A game running NONE of its logic locally and a game running some of its logic locally are not different at all!Why are you shills like this? Do corporations actually pay you for this incompetence?
>>736971908It's saying you have to make an offline mode for your gameDumping a server on players does not guarantee that the players are actually going to set it up and run them as well as the game developers are, imagine buying a game and you have to go through a bunch of third party shit just to play it because the dev dropped support and left it up to the community>>736971926>Obviously game companies aren't going to want to undo the entire profit of the game they sold to millions of people by a refundSo? Who cares what they want?
>>736971981>EVERYTHINGJust the part where I don't get to play the game I paid for, thanks.>>736972014>lives in Poland.But is American. And what's with the personal attack? Do you know the guy? Seems pretty beside-the-point.
>>736972041I accept your concession pendejon
>>736971992>game you like gets new installment>it's live service shit so it will disappear within a few years and you'll never be able to play it ever againthis is unacceptablehell, it doesn't even make sense from a business standpoint since your franchise now has an unplayable iteration that new fans will be barred from checking out
>>736971992100% people should support developers that do the right thing; not get the government involved because they can't stop themselves from making a bad decision
>>736971992Do you buy lightbulbs?
>>736972056>So?So there won't be any more video games if no studios can make money.
>>736970726That's the whole point of the petition you fucking retard. It's allowing people to host their own servers so they can continue to play the game after official support ends. How are people still unable to understand such a basic premise? Do you fuck ferrets, too?
>>736972076>The person that conceived and wrote the demands and text of the petition being a literal 70-IQ downie is besides the pointIt's pretty relevant to the content of the petition being idiotic, anon.It's ok, I know that kind of connection is hard for someone like you to make.
>>736972112You know that game refunds exist already right?
>>736972154Can you refund a game you have 4,000 hours in just because the servers closed?I don't think you can.
>>736972113>Rebuild your game and refactor your server architecture into a single x86 binary! For free!lol no>We'll make the government force you!You'll try lolYou'll failEspecially considering your legal argument was made by the kind of person that can't read a single line item description
>>736972237Obviously refunds should only exist in reasonable circumstances, like if the game closes down prematurely in a few months
Quick question: do any of you kids behind this actually watch Ross's dungeon?I get the feeling there would be fewer supporters if they'd had more actual exposure to Ross and his...special mind.
>>736972148Content of the petition seems fine to me. And again, beside the point. The petition passed and the issue is already beyond the point where the support of anybody here matters. You could tell me the petition was penned by a literal dog and it wouldn't be relevant.
>>736972056>It's saying you have to make an offline mode for your gameYes.....? see >>736969834Are you stalling by repeating the obvious or just this slow? >Dumping a server on players does not guarantee that the players are actually going to set it up and run themThat's completely irrelevant. The devs must provide this option. What the players do with it is up to them.Or are you trying to argue >If the imaginary players in my head wont use it, then the players dont need it! like the kike you are?
>>736972301He's a moronic sperg but you'll notice is the people supporting this are also moronic spergs so he's in good company
>>736972276How do we define "prematurely" in this context? I don't think we can.
>>736972313I'm saying that forcing developers to make games the way you want them to be made is badThey should be able to make whatever they want, they should clearly communicate to you what you're buying and if you don't want it you can choose not to buy itMaximum freedom for the developers and consumers, this is how creativity thrives
>>736972343The law can define it
>corporate shills are completely out of narratives >all they can do now is shitpost about RossYou love to see the armchair lawyering turn into namecalling. Beautiful.
>>736972365>I'm saying that forcing developers to make games the way you want them to be made is badI don't think forcing developers to make their games playable is a bad thing.
>>736972113I understand the petition and am not against it at all. My point is that companies shutting down games isn't some secretive, shady thing that will blindside everyone. It's blatantly clear what games will eventually get shut down, with no guarantee of a private server, and whoever buys the game needs to be aware of that. If I dump $100 into something like Fortnite and it ends up shutting down in 5 years with no way to play, it's my fault for trusting a game like that. There is currently nothing in place stopping studios from doing this, so it's up to the customer to avoid getting gypped.
>>736972365I would be perfectly fine with GaaS games existing if there's a clearly defined expiration date that shows how long you're guaranteed service for the game.
>>736972301Yes he's my favorite 'content creator', if only he could manage more than one dungeon every half yearIt's criminal how little exposure he has for how long he's been at it
>>736972447It is
>>736972389How? Tell me.Or are you admitting you have no answers?
>>736972365Live service has no impact on the actual game though. Neither is shutting a live service a function of the game itself or a form of creativity. It's entirely a business decision.
>>736970709>right to repair x is valid, but right to repair y is not???saar pls do not the shooting of the foot good morning
>>736972365What 'creativity' is impaired by saying you can't make a game with a remote kill switch left installedThink the arts will survive without that particular avenue
>>736970919>it's better to get raped by Apple because some day asia will move past the rape-prevention deviceyou are incredibly retarded. I'd rather have a length of time in between when I'm not getting raped at all, even if that time will eventually come to an end.
>>736972487How? They just decide like they do for everything. You know there's all sorts of laws about warranties and shit they have 1-year, 2-year, 4-year guarantees? They just make up a figure
>>736972496>Live service has no impact on the actual game thoughIf it has no impact, why force them to keep it open?>>736972526You can never have a game like Curiosity again.Or that Vlambeer game about extinction.
>>736972484Well I'm convinced.
>>736972365>I'm saying that forcing developers to make games the way you want them to be made is badForcing them ....how? I've been asking this question since >>736970949>Adding an offline mode is forcing devs to make games a certain way?And your only answer to that has bren "because I say so" which isnt going to fly
>>736972551So you have no answers.Thanks for confirming this fact.
>>736972526Of course they'll survive. You're just a moron if you think saying "No you can't make this thing" is ever GOOD for the arts. All you should be required to do is communicate what you're selling so the consumer can make an informed decision. The government should not be outlawing things just because you personally dislike them, that's insane>>736972496How you run your business and how you develope the game are two parts of the same thing
>>736972593You are forcing them to add an offline mode to the game. I don't understand the question
>>736972561>why force them to keep it open?That's the neat thing, you disingenuous shill. Offline mode and locally hosted servers dont require them to. The corpprations can do other things and the players can run it themselves
>>736972593Are you forcing then to add an offline mode, in a game that otherwise wouldn't have one? >YesThen you are changing how they develop their product, forcibly, with the law.Understand?
>>736972595Are you fucking retarded?How did they decide that the jail sentence for murder is X amount of years? They just make it up. That's how the law works, it's arbitrary
>>736972154>>736972237>>736972276I tried refunding GTA5 with 250 hours played because they changed their anticheat software so that I cannot play the game on linux anymore.Steam told me to ask rockstar and rockstar told me to ask steam.In the end, no refund.I played the game on linux just fine before they for some reason decided to steal the game from me.
>>736972665>Nobody is being forced to stay open So you're not forcing devs to add an offline mode who otherwise wouldn't?I think that's a lie.
>>736972664>You are forcing them to add an offline mode to the gamesee >>736971346We're not going to get anywhere if you keep arguing in circles, which I guess is your goal now since you have literally nothing left to defend your position with
>>736972694I don't know why you're getting so upset.You admitted you have no answers. Why are you crying now?
>>736970726But I do have internet. If "internet required" actually means something else, then the sticker should say that instead. Surely corporate wouldn't try to intentionally mislead customers by withholding crucial information.
>>736972753You're asking a completely baffling self-evident questionIt's like you're asking me how is it round just because it's a circle
>>736972737>who otherwise wouldn't?Why wouldnt they? The live service has no impact on the actual game, remember?
>>736972689There are no games where an offline version doesn't exist, if only because the game developers themselves need a local offline version to test it during development. Name one, if you dare.
>>736972753see>>736972689
>>736972779I gave you the answer, you do not understand the answer because apparently you have absolutely no understanding of how the law works
>>736972819They don't have "offline versions", they host their own internal servers
>>736958642>make online game requiring server>release it, it flops, go out of business>I now have some faggot EU bureaucrat rinsing me for more money I don't have because two people can't play an online game so they can use the money to import more muslims and make it lawful for trannies to go in women's toiletsI absolutely despise the modern world
>>736972846Your answer was admitting you have no answer.Stop crying.>>736972819You made the claim, burden of proof is yours.
>>736972086it's a video game so the government getting involved is laughable. I believe in archiving and fan projects to reviving things but regulations shouldn't be used for pointless and mundane things like entertainment
>>736972737Not amongst already released games. They're grandfathered in. New games have to abide by new rules so there's no "otherwise wouldn't".
>>736972689>>736972835>in a game that otherwise wouldn't have one?see >>736972818It's on you to prove the "offline mode" is something that doesnt exist in a game that's designed to be installed and run locally.Come on shill, give me a show.
>>736972905No I gave you the answer, you decided the answer wasn't real because you're retarded
>>736972915>New games have to abide by new rulesSo you're forcing new games to be developed a certain way (so they are always open, by legal force).That's shitty.
>>736972883it really is just another regulation that supports big companies and punishes small creators
>>736972936They don't have offline modes, that would require extra work, they host internal servers and connect to those instead
All we're going to get is "always online" sticker on the box. The best-case scenario is that the government will force developers to release a documented API after EOS, but nobody will be willing to spend their time writing an actual game server.But a lot of e-celebs will get popular talking about it.
>>736972908>regulations shouldn't be used for pointless and mundane things like entertainmentthere are already regulations for them like age ratings
>>736972982They're already developed a certain way, for example they can't infringe someone else's IP.
>>736958642>If a game doesn't make any money, and the dev doesn't want to work on it anymore, the dev should be required to free the copyright of everything, art, assets, music, and give the game to me if he is not using it ;)This is the most zoomer entitled idea I've ever seen
>>736958642>What's the deal???You're "speaking" with bots and paid shills, every time you see someone shit on this, it's 99.99% sure it's either a bot or he's getting paid to say those things.
>>736972936>It's on you to proveSure, after you prove this claim. You made it first so it's only fair.>>736972819>There are no games where an offline version doesn't existGo ahead. Prove this claim, then I'll prove mine. Just like a real debate adults would have.
>>736972878Mate, there needs to be a separation of network and local so developers can identify and squash bugs caused by network issues. That means there needs to be a way to play it without connecting to a network, from a development standpoint.>>736972905>You made the claim, burden of proof is yours.Obviously, I can't prove it as a rule. But I'm telling you it's pretty damn unlikely for a game to be developed without being able to run it offline, if only because that makes absolutely no sense for a game's development pipeline for there to be no way to run it without being connected to a network.
>>736971749Ah, back to the Goebbels tactics. If that was true then none of the ~1.7 million signatures would've been valid because it's only euros that can sign.
>>736972947Reply again if you're still mad.>>736973040So you concede the point? Great. Thanks for admitting i was right.
>>736973019>The best-case scenario is that the government will force developers to release a documented API after EOS, but nobody will be willing to spend their time writing an actual game server.That's still better than what we have now.Imagine dismissing a cure for cancer as useless and stupid just because it might make your stomach upset or some other side effect.>>736973041retard
Funniest part of SKG has been all the gaas developers pretending that peer to peer and private hosting is some eldritch lost tech.
>>736973009>they host internal servers and connect to those insteadIf all the files are installed and run locally, then yes they can be run offline and on local servers.Try again, shill. >>736973057>Sure, after you prove this claim. You made it first so it's only fair.My proof is your own agreement >>736972561>If it has no impact, why force them to keep it open?
>>736973082>Mate, there needs to be a separation of network and local so developers can identify and squash bugs caused by network issues. That means there needs to be a way to play it without connecting to a network, from a development standpoint.No, you can host a server on LAN or even your own PC so that's not really an issue
Why would small game development studios make online-only games that they couldn't support in the first place?
>>736973082>I can't prove itThen I accept your concession. Thanks for confirming you couldn't prove your own claims true.
>>736969127>unless the new game is a massive fuckupSee, that's what they fear. This is precisely why sometimes companies delist old games in favor of the remastered.
>>736973143You don't understand what you're talking about, you're out of your depth
>>736973128>cure for cancerthe lack of testosterone in men is such a massive catastrophe, you really are just a bunch of melodramatic crybabies
>>736973115I'm not sure what you want to be right about though? That it's more work for them? Yes suck it. If you can't sell without being a scammer, please don't join the games industry.
>>736972112Don't threaten me with a good time. If they need to kill their selfcompetition to sell anything, they're only making dogshit and the world will be better off without it.
>>736973143>"My proof is <unrelated claim with absolutely zero proof or sources attached to it>."This is the exact moment and reason you lost. Thanks for confirming you have no evidence to support your own claims.
>>736972461>you must guarantee me service!>but also, service is sustained by customer adherenceI swear to god this skg thing is fueled by kids that never worked a day on their life and don't grasp how a business operates
>>736973082>That means there needs to be a way to play it without connecting to a network, from a development standpoint.nta, these are done by using mock microservices. Either run locally or in a controlled environment. Simple servers no longer exist in live-service gaming. Devs probably don't even run all the services needed for the game to work in production.
>>736973162anon, don't bully the corpo shills they will be very very upset>>736973220Alright, but getting the API to make my own server is still better than what we have now
>>736973297It's fuelled by incoherent misplaced rageGame developers bad, we must punish them, even if what we're suggesting makes absolutely no sense
>>736973248><unrelated claim with absolutely zero proof or sources attached to it>."You know I cited your post there, right? You're in such a hurry to disengage that you scored a nice self-goal there
>>736973227I was right that it does, in-fact, change how game developers make games, despite your incorrect objections.
>>736972730It's no longer the product you bough. Keep pestering them and make sure you talk to an actual human. People got refunds for skullgirls after the censorship bullshit, but it generally took a few tries.
>>736973362>People got refunds for <tiny indie game> so they will get a refund for <literally the biggest game on the planet>How are people this stupid?
>>736973354>He's still replying.You already lost.>I-i-it's your own post!!!And? My own posts don't prove you're incorrect claims true. Why do you think they would?
>>736973159>No, you can host a server on LAN or even your own PC so that's not really an issueYes, a version that doesn't need to connect to a network to play. Functionally, an offline version. Isn't that the whole point here? If you're saying even games that literally cannot run without being connected to a network can run on LAN then that just means publishers CAN provide support for these online games indefinitely.>>736973170I can't prove that we need oxygen to breathe either. You can chose not to believe me, that's entirely up to you, all I can do is lead the horse to the water.
>>736973128>retardHow? He's right
>>736973128>That's still better than what we have now.True, but API is not the only thing that matters. And it will most probably be useless as any documentation ever.
>>736972737lmao what a retarded attempt to wriggle out of losing the argument
This thread reeks of mumbai curry, shit, and matzah ball
>>736973431Running it on LAN or localhost is still running it on a networkYes they can provide these tools to you, for live service games it's going to be outside the technical capacity of a normal person to set up though
>>736973431>Admits he has no proof>Again.I know.
>be small independent grassroots DIY developer creating my dream open world MMO survival extraction shooter gaas live service game out of my basement>On the day I release my game GTA6 shadowdrops and my game goes completely unnoticed>Can't afford to keep it online so have to shut it down>Suddenly SKG death squads bust through my door and kidnap me without reading my Miranda rights>Tied up, gagged and thrown before the Council of Ross in Luxembourg>Be sentenced to death by dismemberment in Luxembourg Square for not keeping my game perpetually onlineThanks SKG
>>736973425>completely irrelevant non argument
>>736973427>You already lostBecause you say so. Yeah yeah, you've been screamign that for a while now.>My own posts don't prove you're incorrect claims trueWhen why would you agree with something that's incorrect? Seems like backpedalling to me
>>736973507>Yes they can provide these tools to you, for live service games it's going to be outside the technical capacity of a normal person to set up thoughSounds good, deal.
>>736973518A glorious future.
>>736972076We already have one King, imitators need not apply.
>>736973518>for not keeping my game perpetually online>this lie againKek 400 posts later and we're back to the same bullshit. It's almost like a corporate bot
>>736972883>>736972991>Guys we just can't figure out how to do it a 16 year old was able to do it but we just can't okay?>The game is simultaneously worthless, but immeasurably valuable so I can't just let players run their own servers >I should have no obligation when I take millions of dollars from customers Only companies like Ubisoft can afford to put stuff like this in their game. Concord received 400 million dollars, and had Sony's multi billion dollar backing. They can figure out technology we had in the 1980s that indie developers are still having no problem implementing today. You can't just steal everyone's money, run off, and go "No refunds" this isn't India.
>>736973518>suddenly a scenario that could only happen in burgerlandWeird flex, but okay. good morning sir
>>736968825>this ask is lightyears away from simpleIt's easy as fuck you moron. Amateur game devs have literally reverse engineered MMOs and other live service games to host them themselves. For free. The devs would have an exponentially easier time of making it that way in the first place. You're fucking stupid.
>>736973586No it's really not a good deal to have an entire live service framework that you have no idea how to set up dumped on you if you want to play a video game
>>736973518Now THAT'S something I'd sign a petition for.
>>736973615It's a joke mocking corporate bootlickers and the narrative they are trying to sell this time, anon.
>>736973548>>You already lost>"yeah yeah"I'm glad you agree.I accept your final admission of defeat.Feel free to reply again if you're still butthurt and mad tho.
>>736973507It doesn't need to be inside the technical capacity for a normal person to set up. That anon is trying to argue that making it so developers need to provide a way to access the game in perpetuity would mean forcing them to make games the way you want them. I'm saying that isn't the case, because all games are already developed with the ability to do that anyway. It would be "forcing" devs to do something they're already doing.
>>736973518>be small independent grassroots DIY developer creating my dream open world MMO survival extraction shooter gaas live service game out of my basement>because I know about SKG and because it doesn't apply retroactively I can plan ahead and have an eol plan for my game>can't afford to keep it online so have to shut it down>publish my server binaries because I'm independent and planned for this>customer is happy, my dream game is preserved forever and develops a small enthusiast community giving me leverage for my next market entrythanks SKG!
>>736973654It's a better deal than having no deal.
>>736973654>No it's really not a good deal to get the tools to do it yourselfAre you against modding too?
>>736973586They're not going to give you their code to their auth servers, retard.
>>736973697It's not so much that you're forcing devs to change they way they develop the game it's that you're forcing them to use a particular business model you agree withYou're saying "you can't use the limited GaaS business model, you have to provide me with a way to play your game without this"
>>736973615Point me to the post that explains how is that a lie please if you don't want to type it
>>736973750A refund is a better deal
>>736973654But I can do it and did this before. Are you retarded and think they got some secret tech unavailable to me?
>>736973781>forcing them to use a particular business model you agree withYes, they are being forced not to rugpull people for the products they've paid for, anymore. It's a tragedy, I know, but they will just have to live with it.>>736973819Not if you like the game and want to keep playing it.
>>736969285>Your ask would violate the property rights of developersThen their rights will be amended.>place an extreme and undue burden on the entire software industryIncorrect. It's a minor inconvenience at best.>and has no clear benefit to a majority of consumersIrrelevant. Most laws have no clear benefit to the majority.>WeYou're not a "we", you're a corpo bootlicking cuck with no authority who has been left behind. SKG is winning, you lost the moment you sided against your own consumer interests. Slit your fat gut open you pathetic faggot.
>>736973781>you have to provide me with a way to play your game without this"Which they can. Some do. Especially after EoS when the live service stops making money. Why not all of them?You're trying to argue against a strawman position for SKG again.
Epstein was right about people. Absolute cattle. Just slap a happy title over a movement like "No Child Left Behind" or "The Patriot Act" and it's hard for the sheep to realize they are being herded into their doom. After all who doesn't want to support "Stop Killing Game" pushed by the same grifters who want you to die for Israel, want you to support techno plutocracy and globalism.The slippery slope of government regulatory bodies interfering with any form of media is already well documented but time and time again, the same well wishing liberal minds always go down the same path thinking it'll end up different.EA and Epic Gaming bought up a whole bunch of studios, so why didn't the government step in and stop them? Surely that worked out for them and they now control the market completely? Ubisoft employed awful business practices and are now on the verge of collapse? Surely this government-backed corporation funded by EU members need some form of regulation to keep them in line? What? It's failing without government intervention? Impossible!Everything in my tiny brain tells me I need the unelected members of a globalist government to tell me how to game and purchase my games.
>>736973852As someone else pointed out a live service game is not just a simple server app you run on your computer
>>736973781No part of this stops games as a service from existing. All it does is make it so the consumer can still play the game they paid for after end of service. Or, at least, be clearly told exactly how long they have left to play the game before purchasing.
>>736958642>So, why do we hate this again /v/...?we? who is we, regular 4chan anons?the only "people" that hate this are corporate paid shills that spam these threads with premade arguments, nothing more
>>736973775That's cool. They can strip that part out. Since they had a 5 year grace period following the 3-4 years it took to turn the directive into national law they surely planned ahead for their products going forward and made that feature easy to remove or modular.
>>736973856>Yes, they are being forced not to rugpull people for the products they've paid forThere are ways you can do this without taking away their ability to do GaaS, like a guaranteed period of service >>736973874>Why not all of them?Because you are removing the freedom of people to conduct their business as they wishIf they aren't being dishonest they should be allowed to use whatever business model they want. If it sucks, people won't buy it
>>736973856It's not a rugpull when you know it's coming.
>>736973907If you're required to give out an offline mode then your game is no longer a service
>>736969515>Oh but hey would you look at that, software development didn't freeze in time 20 years ago!correct, nocoder troony, now its even easier to do everything given you have a library and framework for everything
>>736973819So you think I should get a refund for a game even tho I played it for 4000 hours? Why?
>>736973895Neither are mmos. It never stopped individual people from hosting a mmo if they want to.
>>736973895I'm well aware you retard. We got IAAS nowadays and I have the same access to the same hardware and services as any other publisher and developer on this planet. Since I worked 3 years in the backend at Ubisoft after graduating University in Paris I have the skillset and will gladly self host. All cool. Deal.
>>736974038I think if a game service ends unexpectedly or before a reasonable amount of time has passed you should get a refundNot if you've put 4000 hours in
>>736974057Most people don't have the experience you do genius
>>736973082>That means there needs to be a way to play it without connecting to a network, from a development standpointNo, dipshit, it means a test environment >>736973431What do you think LAN stands for
>>736974009And it's not a service anymore when it's terminated. What point exactly are you trying to make here? Are you pretending to be retarded in order to make discourse impossible? Or are you going to ask for the definition of a "service' next?>>736973987None of them do that, GAAS games never specify for how long exactly they will run, with the sole exception being subscription fee games.
>>736973907>Or, at least, be clearly told exactly how long they have left to play the game before purchasing.Oh okay, you only want everyone to have a clone of Sydney Sweeny and a flying car with nuclear fusion everywhere for free energy. At least you're not asking for things which would be impossible to provide because of things like the nature of how time works.
>>736974076So when's the cut off? Pick an arbitrary amount of hours for arguments sake.
>>736974115Services end when you stop paying for themIf you pay once and you have it forever it's not a service
>>736973980>like a guaranteed period of serviceWhy would you be entitled to know any business runtime operations?>Enters restaurant>Hello sir, welcome, we have enough money to be open untill January of 2027, do you want to eat here? Let me get you a menu!I hate fucking kids and their entitlement in this cozy world that makes them more retarded and entitled
>>736974102Is that supposed to be an argument against availability of it at the death of a game? That some people might find it difficult to set up? Well, thankfully we have educated volunteers that can streamline it for them. Free of charge too.
>>736960609I'm of the group that knows government action is atrociously slow at best, generally useless at most, or downright antagonistic at worst.And that the best way to "Stop Killing Games" is to not buy these shitty cashgrab GAAS slop in the first place, so they realize that it isn't profitable and go back. But people are too big of consumers to NOT buy something.
so how will developers provide the funding to enable this perpetual "playable state" if the game is for example multiplayer only? at best the supporters of this initiative should pay to keep the services up, ohh... wait, you won't do that? sucks to be a braindead gibsmedat commie, I guess, next time read the fine print before buying lmao
>>736973980>the freedom to conduct their business as they wishBut....they've chosen to stop conducting that business. That's what EoS fucking means. End of Service.>If it sucks, people won't buy itPicrel. Here's how Gaas actually works. Peddle that "vote with your wallet" meme to some cuck on reddit instead
>>736974076Not him but 4k hours is only around 6 months.
>>736974130I'd say a GaaS game has to run for 2 years at least and give 2 months notice after that before ceasing operations
>>736973630>making a browser game running on Javascript and using a MySQL server for storage is apparently "scamming" >can't just make a quick buck on a limited time productand you call us the bootlickers. This is why the European Union is failing.
>>736974157But I paid once and The Crew is gone now. You are pretending to be retarded to make discourse impossible. Kill yourself.>>736974163Kill yourself nigger.
>>736973961Not really, they can't. Authentication is a major part of the server-client communication. You need to replace it with another, and since it can be shared across multiple games of the same publisher, it will not be part of the EOS release.Making modern online shit run fully independently is not easy, and no law will be both specific and generic enough at the same time to make it work.
>>736974102So? Technically they provided everything necessary to fix and keep the product running. Sounds good. Deal. Can we agree on this? You shouldn't have any argument against this arrangement since it will also easen the burden on the industry.
>>736974194I asked for hours, not months. I thought you could read?Try again please.
>>736974163This is a really dumb analogy. You go to a restaurant, you pay, you eat, you leaveThat's how how you play games or games-as-a-service>>736974189Choosing when you stop conducting business is part of conducting business. Yes, whales drive GaaS games. How is that a problem? If you aren't a dengerate gacha whale then don't play gacha games, what the fuck are you complaining about
>>736974009I suppose. Access to the online component is, but I guess from a definition standpoint this would technically kill GAAS. You got me there.>>736974112Yes, test environments are what I was referring to. Duh?LANs don't need an internet connection, which was the point.>>736974115>And it's not a service anymore when it's terminated. What point exactly are you trying to make here? Are you pretending to be retarded in order to make discourse impossible? Or are you going to ask for the definition of a "service' next?Relax, think he's just pointing out that it would make it harder to sell games based on ephemerality. FOMO, basically.
>>736974115>And it's not a service anymore when it's terminated.If it's terminated, both parties of the transaction (seller and customer) end their business relationship.Because you are not giving them money, and they are not giving you a service.You want to not give money and still get a service.You want an unilateral business transaction in which the seller gives you thing, and you give them nothingIf this is understood no law will ever pass that accepts this framing
>>736974182>next time read the fine print beforehow about next time you read the thread before making an argument
>>736974269It shouldn't have anything to do with how many hours you played
>>736974240Yeah sure buddy and they got a decade to change their integration of it for all products going forward to comply with an eol plan. This isn't an issue for products going forward. You are arguing on hypothetical limitations for products currently.Stop being retarded please. Law isn't applied retroactive in the EU.
>>736974297The business relationship is terminated unilaterally, if your product that I paid for acts as a service and has a remote killswitch installed into it that can be triggered at your leisure, taking my money and leaving me with nothing. Save your fucking polemics for some other gullible cunt. Kill yourself.
>>736974314Not what you said here>>736974076>"...or before a reasonable amount of time has passed you should get a refund"What is the reasonable amount of time, in hours, according to you?There's really no need to be afraid, this isn't a trap.
>>736974240>Not really, they can'tLmfao>oh no lads I programmed myself into a corner pls forgive me judge for breaking the SKG clause that passed five years ago how could I have seen this coming
>>736970085Kys jew>>736971195You lost.
Here is an easy curveball you can use against any opponents of the movement. If they say that all government regulation is bad, then demand the complete removal of copyright law, since its a government granted monopoly on an idea. They have no recourse and anything they try to counter with, is an argument that can be used against them.
>>736974390I said time passed not hours played
>>736974361Authentication is laughably easy to spoof anyway, he's a brain damaged shill and all he has to argue with are strawmen and concern trolling.
>>736974401>If they say that all government regulation is badnobody is dumb enough to say that though
>>736974276>You go to a restaurant, you payNo, that assumes I'll choose to pay there after the fact.If you stop me at the door and tell me your business running expectancy, that's a factor that you introduce that may change my mind.You want that factor in videogames.You are removing the factor from my analogy and calling it a dumb analogy, you just made my point for me.That's exactly what I was talking about kids being retarded and entitled, yes
>>736974401Kek and checkmate. Not bad.
>>736974401strawman argument
>>736974115>None of them do that, GAAS games neveI didn't say you know when it's coming, I said you know it's coming. And you damn well know, no matter how dumb you try to play.
>>736967787this
>>736974419>He thinks hours aren't a measurement of timeYou are so retarded it's unreal.
>>736958642If the people that buy your game have to buy it just because it's a copy / they're unable to use the previous interchangeable clone / not on the game's unique merits / etc., then the game deserves to sell poorly.
>>736974276>Choosing when you stop conducting business is part of conducting business.And what part of SKG stops them from making that choice? End the service. Let the gamecontinue running offline without service. Simple.>How is that a problem? Notice how you shifted from Gaas to gacha mid-post because you subconsciously realized how retarded you sound?
If you can't stop printer manufacturer BS, Adobe suite shenanigans and every other proprietary scheme you can't change shit that skg wants, I'm not joining your cult
>>736974450I have literally no idea what you're talking about
>>736974401>here's a counterargument to an argument nobody makes!this amebabrained retard lol
>>736974489You sound really mad about something and not interested in having a geniune discussion
>>736958642We hate it because it's communist garbage. It's that simple. Putting any type of restriction on freedom is a slippery slope.
>>736968825>Retards don't understand that this ask is lightyears away from simple and implementing it runs up against copyright laws and basic property rights.Are you actually suggesting dedicated servers are literally impossible?
>>736974515Gacha is an example. It's GaaS. If you let players keep the game forever it's not a service. Services end, that's what makes them a service and not a product. You pay and you get the service and at some point it runs out and you don't have it anymore
>>736974430Absolutely, anon. But I wouldn't put it past against some obscure developer to integrate some retarded authentication or account management so deeply into a project that removing it would require an economically unfeasable amount of work.Hence just pointing out that projects going forward can be simply designed around this "challenge" is sufficient without engaging on his retarded level.
>>736974445>>736974467>>736974557Ahhhh, there we go. Literally just proved my point. If not all government regulation is bad, then you cant say that skg would be bad. Thanks for playing.>the amebabrained*amoebabrainedftfy
>>736974606Legally lightyears away retard, you are part of problem
>>736974591"thou shalt not kill" lead to this....
>>736974564>You sound madI'm not. I just noticed you are extremely low IQ and posted about it.You can't help being a retard, I'm not upset at you.>genuine discussionYou're the one refusing to answer my questions. Not the other way around.Want to answer my question finally? I'd love for you to participate in the discussion, but you keep acting cowardly and afraid and I don't know why.I'm not trying to trick you, or "get you". I want you to answer my question, for arguments sake. Pick an arbitrary number in hours, or I'll pick one for you.
>>736974662>black or white fallacy
>>736974430Authentication is just the easiest example I could give. My point is, I fully expect "Somebody run the servers" movement to be created next. Nobody in SKG has a clue what they want and what they're going to get.
>>736974686You read "time passed" and got "hours played"
>>736974591This. I also hate copyright law.>>736974687Fallacy fallacy. You cant condemn a possible legislation without proof of it being bad.
The fact that shilling this commie movement doesn't result in an instant permaban proves that this website has gone down the sjw tranny shitter. The internet should have never left the West.
>>736974752Saying "if you think this government regulation is bad you must think all government regulation is bad" is the dumbest strawman I've read in the thread so far
>>736974367>that can be triggered at your leisureIf my only leisure is "not enough money to support the service" that's a widely accepted reason to stop the relationship. "T-the dev is evil and can shut the game because of huh politics!" that's a wishful thinking on your part.The onus is on you to provide those examples, examples that the "killswitch" was ever used even if the business operation was running as expected.If you provide those examples, yes you may have a case then.If the killswitch was ever used in businesses that were no longer sustainable, the existance of the killswitch alone doesn't guarante your entitlement and kiddy tantrums
>>736974618>Gacha is an example. It's GaaS. We're talking about GaaS in general. Stay on topic atleast until the thread dies.>Services end, that's what makes them a service and not a product. IAPs are the service.>You pay and you get the service and at some point it runs out and you don't have it anymoreOk, so the service ends. The ingame shop is disabled. The IAPs are gone.What does any of this have to do with the GAME, retard? GAME is still here. GAME can still be played, even without buying any IAPs and opening the ingame shop. So why shouldnt it be playable offline, after both of those are gone?
>>736974743>He didn't pick a number in hours >AgainOkay retard.You know how steam games are padded and front loaded ever since the 2-hour-refund period was greenlit?That'll get worse, under your 2-year refund window proposal. That is all.
>>736974521lol yes, no shit lol
>>736974303ok, redditor, take your meds
>>736974839IAPs can be the service, but they don't have to beThe service can be access to the game itself
>>736974606Yes he's saying it's absolutely impossible to strip licensed feature sets and plugins from server binaries and they absolutely can't adapt to a legislative change even tho we had this exact issue in the past as early as the 2000's with Valve doing exactly that to publish dedicated server software.>>736974696No it's just the most "valid sounding" example you have because you couldn't name an unreplaceable plugin or any other licensed code or features used in any modern live service game's server binaries or scripts by name.Especially when the product would be designed from the beginning to comply with an SKG conform eos plan.>>736974775>>736960609#2
>>736974775This. What kind of commie gives the government the power to enforce a monopoly on ideas? Copyright is communist cancer.>>736974803Why cant people demand that the government do something for them? Either get rid of it all, or stop complaining about people using the government for their own ends. You cant have it both ways.
>>736974857I know you're struggling to understand this but I'm not talking about how many hours you've played the game, I'm talking about how long the game has been available before it gets shut down for everyoneIt has nothing to do with how many hours you've played
>>736974926>black or white fallacy
>>736974940You really aren't very good at reading, are you?I said years, like (you) proposed. Not hours.Do try to keep up.
>>736974902>The service can be access to the game itselfIt's not. And even if it were, those games can still be sold to be played offline so that service isnt affected by SKG either. Retard
>>736974985Not an argument. Youve failed to explain how skg would make games worse, other than overexaggerated what-if scenarios.
>>736975026Years and hours are both ways to measure time, there's no reason to make a distinction between them
>>736975032If a game shuts down the game is a service. Games DO shut down to try to get you to buy the sequel
>>736974920You know well they're going to spend triple the money on lawyers just to make sure their software complies with the law, but the released servers are still unusable. Just settle for a guaranteed minimal length of service and don't try to push software architecture into a law. That's your best way to succeed.
>>736974926>Why cant people demand that the government do something for them? Either get rid of it all, or stop complaining about people using the government for their own ends. You cant have it both ways.Because the EU is authoritarian enough as it is, thank you very much. Can you not envision that a government which pokes its nose into every little thing will one day mess with something that involves you in a way you won't like?
>>736975072I didn't.Try reading.>>736974857
>>736975118>If a game shuts down the game is a serviceExcept it doesnt the IAPs shut down. Game is fine.>Games DO shut down to try to get you to buy the sequelNo they dont. They just stop you from being able to play them. They kill those old games to push corporate interests at the expense of gamers that spent money on those games. We should stop that, wouldnt you agree?
>>736974606He's saying that these regulations aren't going to be put in place for another decade or so. Like all forms of large-scale government action. You will, at best, have 5 to 10 years of it being deliberated over, then some years of them planning it out, and then some more years of them actually putting it in place.At which point, the industry would have already moved on from it. Like with lootboxes.
>>736975228You're so angry you aren't making any sense, I don't even know what point you're trying to make
>>736975202They already do that with copyright law, which you so fervently defend. >no making backups>no romhacks>no breaking decryption>just being able to resell a used game, or even rent it, had to be enforced by the supreme court>rentals are illegal in japanThe anti-skg trannies sure are quiet about this.
>>736975156>>736975262>demoralizingThread's about to die and you're trying this"it's all pointless!" meme? Till the last post huh?
>>736975236You're just rephrasing what I said. They shut down the game to get you to buy the new one. I don't think this should be regulated, so long as it is communicated clearly that this can happen and when it will happen. I think if you don't like the business model you should not buy the game
>>736975202Have you considered all the ways governments poke their noses into every little things in ways you do like?
>>736975070mandatory extra work for the devs can translate to lower quality of content/impact on price
>>736975323What? I'm not saying it's pointless, I'm saying that it'll take much longer than you'd think it will. Even shit like GDPR or the phone charger thing took a decade or more from initial proposal to implementation.What I'M saying is, if you actually care about this movement then you shouldn't solely rely on government action that progresses at a glacial pace, but also take matters into your own fucking hands. Stop buying these kinds of games, get everyone else to stop buying them. Make this shit unprofitable for them so they DON'T KEEP DOING IT.
>>736975309As far as I know, backups and romhacks are allowed in EU.
>>736975156They can spend 10x the amount on lawyers and I don't care. Why did you think that's even an argument?
>>736975467Yeah and none of them involve them protecting me from my own shitty purchasing decisions. I'm not going to complain if the government helps people that were blindsided by something they could have never seen coming when they bought something. I take offense when faggots run crying to them over something they got themselves into. No t wanting the government to protect you from yourself does not mean I don't think the government should protect anyone, it means people who dive in to the deep end when they can't swim should be left to drown.
>>736975496Liveservice model with mtx and gamepasses on top of the always online components are extra work as well so if they made a non-live service they could make games with lower budgets.
>>736975383>They shut down the game to get you to buy the new one. No, they remove your access to it. Game's fine.>I don't think this should be regulatedNice of you to finally let the mask drop. Not like it wasnt obvious this whole time, but still.>I think if you don't like the business model you should not buy the gameAnd there's the "vote with your wallet" spiel again.
>>736975647I'm just seeing seethe here and not any argumentsVote with your wallet is how the free market worksDon't like it go try make communism work again
>>736975631>The chiken farmer can sell fish instead!That's fine but not an argument against what I said
>>736975309>no making backups>no breaking decryptionAllowed in the EU for personal use copies. Varies a bit on national level.>just being able to resell a used game, or even rent itExplicitly allowed in the EU (for physical games)>>736975549Unsure about romhacks, probably not if you publish them but definitely for your own use.
>>736975528>Im not saying it's pointless. Im saying it'll take so long you shouldnt bother with it.Demoralizing again.>Stop buying these kinds of games, get everyone else to stop buying them. Make this shit unprofitable for them so they DON'T KEEP DOING ITShut the FUCK up you fucking mongoloid. Do you know why Gaas is so popular? It's BECAUSE the majority dont decide if a game profitable or not, a depressed wageslave rolling for his waifu does, see >>736974189.
>>736975551Because the point of the movement is to make things better for the customer? Or is it just a tantrum?
>>736975719>Vote with your wallet is how the free market works>>>736974276>Yes, whales drive GaaS games. How is that a problem?No wonder you waited this long to drop the facade. You brown corposlaves are simply repugnant
>>736975875How do those things contradict each other?Whales are voting with their walletsThey find immense value in this shit
>>736975794>I don't WANT to make an effort! I just want to CONSOOMYou deserve all of this, you fucking consumerist cuck.
>>736975719>Vote with your wallet is how the free market worksHAHAHAAHHAAHAHHA
>>736975865Limited time access is better for the customer instead of permanent playability? Is that really your stance?
>>736975865Yep, I agree on the first part. Glad we came to the same conclusion.
OPEN SOURCE YOUR SERVER BACKEND NOW!
>>736975621>Yeah and none of them involve them protecting me from my own shitty purchasing decisions.Damn, that's a serious lack of knowledge. There are tons or regulations on basically everything you can purchase that are saving you from your own "shitty purchasing decisions".
>>736975935>Whales are voting with their wallets>Their vote means far more than your vote>and there's no problem with that>>736975992>How dare you have a problem.with a consuner spending money to.overwrite your vote? YOU COMMIE CONSUMERIST KEK! PUT IN EFFORT! SPEND MORE MONEY!!!The more of you browns I see, the more it disgusts me. No wonder the jews love you, you're the perfect slaves
>>736975719you are talking to far left indoctrinated 20 year old collage children.so you are arguing with a brick wall basically
>>736969738As long as Trump doesn't sue you over it.
>>736976013Permanent playability is a pipe dream. Laws telling a company how to design software have always failed. Enforcing a minimal time requirement for a service is something that everybody has experience with. A 2-year warranty exists, is easy to comprehend, and companies have already adjusted to it.
>>736976135What's the problem with money being used to represent value exactly? If rich people want some shit game made just for them, this shouldn't be allowed to happen because some poor person doesn't like it? Even though the poor person doesn't have to buy the game at all?
>>736976194>Permanent playability is a pipe dream. And there's the demoralizing again>Laws telling a company how to design software have always failed.>how to designExcept they dont. Locally installed games can and should run offline and/or with local servers as they have always done until now. Get new material for the next thread, shill.
>>736976194>Permanent playability is a pipe dreami can take out a copy of master of orion 2, a 30 year old game, from my shelf right now, install it and playactaully i don't even need to do that because i have a copy of it on my external hdd, i can just install thatno explain to the class how is this a pipe dream
>>736976210>What's the problem with 2-6% deciding the direction of the entire gaming industry?What repulsive slave-like thinking.
>>736976210>If rich people want some shit game made just for them, this shouldn't be allowed to happen because some poor person doesn't like it?Don't open the game to other people then. You can't force regulations on a product that's not generally available to the public.
>>736976380>only gacha games exist
>>736976194>Permanent playability is a pipe dream.Why>Laws telling a company how to design software have always failed.No they haven't. Name a specific EU law you are talking about.>Enforcing a minimal time requirement for a service is something that everybody has experience with.Sure, even that would be better than what we have right now. It will also get a foot in the door and open the way for further regulation I'm on board with that before we get nothing out of SKG. But games aren't strictly a service - so I don't know how that will fix anything in the eyes of the EU and existing laws. >A 2-year warranty exists, is easy to comprehend,Statutory warranty should apply to games for sure. The issue here is that there's a reversal of the burden of proof after 1 year and it doesn't apply to digital goods.>And companies have already adjusted to it.This affects vendors of physical games and only for defects with the physical good not the game itself.
>>736976425>ignore how GaaS is creeping into everything now
>>736976524The vast majority of games are not whale-driven spendathonsThe game industry is not being held hostage by a small group of incredibly wealthy consumers who like microtransactions
>>736976643Why does the majority of AAA games contain ungodly amounts of microtransactions then?
>>736976845Most AAA games contain a mild amount of microtransactionsIf microtransactions and GaaS were outlawed they'd just be the same shitty games without the microtransactions
>>736976296>>736976303>>736976435Permanent playability of live service games is a pipe dream. It's a direct contradiction to its business model. They have a thousand small reasons they can use to convince the lawmakers, and you have one - you bought something you knew would eventually end. Especially when a game doesn't even have enough audience to keep it online for a reasonable time.>No they haven't. Name a specific EU law you are talking about.Arguably not SW exclusive, but the law requiring USB-C as a standardized power interface for phones is an example of how unfinished law solves nothing. It got solved, but no thanks to the law.
