I still think about it sometimes.
Do you even have a soul yourself? Looking inward before looking outward. Infidel.
If vs13 was release how it is, then it would've had the same fate as KH3 being an overhyped game that's average at best
>>737698327It's astounding that so much of the work done under Nomura was thrown out for the final release and every new decision sucks. I guess that's what happens when you replace the original director with the director of 3rd Birthday.
>>737698554Actual definition of failing upwards. Why does it pay to be incompetent?
Let's be real, neither Nomura nor SE has what it takes to make the game not shit to begin with. The XV project was just too ambitious for their own good.
>>737698734It pays when you're the guy who can push out a product on time and under budget, apparently.
>>737698798The eternal plight of the "auteur". Overbudget, and overtime. Only a few seem to not have that issue, like Clint Eastwood.
>>737698767This is still the blueprint for the best FF game ever.Take the action combat that they have now, plop it into Gothic Neo-Tokyo at night, and let the dream come to life again.
>>737698767Neither was likely to make the perfect game, but Kingdom Hearts Final Fantasy Edition is still much more appealing than FF15.
can someone please explain to me the whole XIII versus question? I know it has been repruposed to XV but for what I know Nomura held a grudge because of that (?) and some ideas went used for KHIII (?), which references a non-existing game (Verus Rex?) which is in a way what Nomura wanted for XIII versus?Never played a FF, just got to know this by lurking.
>>737698327Sometimes I still dream about playing a true RE2make the way Mikami remade RE1 or the Hook Man version of RE4.
>>737698519>implies OP is soulless>calls him an infidel>im-fucking-plying
>>737699036That's all true. Nomura was working on a project that was supposed to accompany Final Fantasy 13, but with his own sensibilities. That appealed to a lot of people, but it was always on the backburner while he worked on other shit. Square Enix had failure after failure in that time and didn't even have an engine to run the game on. They considered this their last hope, changed the name so it would be the new numbered FF, and eventually replaced Nomura with someone else. That alone pissed off Nomura, and his replacement got rid of tons of work that was already done, resulting in a game much worse than what Nomura worked on. He's not likely to just make Versus 13 now, but KH3 has a bunch of shit that looks like it would fit in Versus 13, including the Verum Rex (True King) trailer.
If only you knew what we lost
>>737698327Fuck you. I like XV. In fact, I still have it installed since I was replaying it over the course of the past few weeks. Kinda forgot I was replaying it. Thanks for reminding me.
>>737699036I don't know exactly what Nomura felt after his project got canned but i guess it's safe to assume he was pissed after working it for years (what little was done anyway, his team kept getting repurposed to fix XIII and XIV)When Noctis got added to that arcade Dissidia game there was an alt-costume for the Versus costume and Nomura commented something like "wait so we can talk about that game now?" when someone else said the word "Versus"And then we have KH3 where he introduces this character whose name is literally Noctis in japanese, lives in basically modern day japan and had a scene that recreated one of Versus' trailer shot for shot, absolute madmen stuffApparently Verum Rex was supposed to be its own game or a KH spinoff or whatever, but between making it or making KH4 Nomura opted for KH4 because he didn't want Sora to stay dead for too long
>>737698327Nomura + Nojima is the only force capable of saving Square-Enix.
>>737699987>Apparently Verum Rex was supposed to be its own game or a KH spinoff or whatever, but between making it or making KH4 Nomura opted for KH4 because he didn't want Sora to stay dead for too longDon't quote me on this, but I've been researching Nomura, Square Enix, Disney, and Versus XIII, and I have reason to suspect Disney and SE are at odds with each other. There is a possibility that Nomura killed Sora because he really doesn't want to do Kingdom Hearts anymore, but with the influence of Disney and the way things are at Square Enix he's basically tied to it. Which seems like an incredibly frustrating situation to be in. Look at the story of SoP too.
>>737700296Nah i don't buy that, KH3 somehow manages to generate more questions than answers, to the detriment of the game, baiting sequel like nobody's business and even Sora's death is undone in the secret movie before the DLC was even out
>>737698327Stella to Lunafreya gotta be one of the biggest downgrades of all time. Imagine going from a potentially interesting love interest, already a rarity in FF, to arguably the most bland of them all.
>>737700043>>737700296SoP is such a Nomura thing, despite the game being made by another team.
XV has to be the most lifeless and empty feeling final fantasy of all.
>>737700512For me, it's King Regis
>>737699439>>737699987thanks anons. Just to clarify, what is the consensus on Nomura? I heard that KHIII was somewhat underwhelming and for what I understood he was involved in FFVII remake being weird in terms of plot
>>737700628>>737700512It's the whole thing. Romeo + Juliet mixed with Japan's Yakuza & Jet Li's The One is a crazy as fuck combo.
>>737700669>for what I understood he was involved in FFVII remake being weird in terms of plotThe main problem with the FFVII remake is that they're trying to add the lore created by the spin-off games back into the original game.
>>737698327Has Nomura ever talked about what his original plot for Versus 13 was?
>>737700669>>737700739Knowing that FF8 was made because they had so many ideas for FF7 that they weren't able to work into the game (characters like Edea, Fujin, and Raijin were supposed to be for FF7), that i feel all the new strangeness in the remake is more them trying to do their ideal FF7 now that they've the budget and time. So because of that you've things like a Sephiroth from the future trying to achieve singularity or whatever the fuck.
>>737700568It's a Nomura project in everything but credit. He probably should have the directing credit, but with the politics of his situation I can understand why he only takes the character designer credit. >>737700451These games are torn between Nomura and co.'s vision and ability as devs and insane and out of touch demands from Disney. If you know the history of the company too, there are elements of KH3 that seem like they're meant to be an insult to SE. I'd put money on Nomura having wished KH3 would be the last KH game and tired to kill off Sora, and Disney ultimately said no.
>>737700669From what i remember yeah, it was Nomura's idea to make VII Remake a pseudo-sequel instead of a regular remake, not sure if he's the one who created the time jannies or if it was NojimaAs for KH3 different people find it underwhelming for different reasons, mostly it's either about the gameplay not being on par with 2 or the story that is a nothing burger for the majority of the game, i have my gripes with KH3 but i liked the DLC data-org battles so much that i'm willing to see what that team i cooking for KH4, but when it comes to the story they lost me That whole Versus XIII deal is fascinating to me and i thought it would be a great plotline to chase after since it has none of the usual KH baggage, but then they showed that trailer and the mobile game chick and MoM is involved in that whole mess so i immediatly lost interest
>>737700296I think Nomura's already have a plan to avoid copyright issues with Disney and make sure they don't mess with Verum Rex. Technically, Disney owns all the OCs in KH, there's no exception for Yozora but they don't own any of the Final Fantasy characters. Yozora is somewhere in between. If Nomura actually ties KH lore to connect Yozora to his own version of Noctis without Disney's involvement, it could work, but it would still feel incredibly retarded regardless of how he did it.
>>737700669Consensus is a funny thing. The normalfag horde completely ignores developer statements and their roles on any given project, and really just make shit up about famous names on any game.
>>737700669Nomura's cool.
>>737701018There is no way anything tied to Disney will be able to resemble anything like Versus XIII's true intentions.
>>737700971>only takes the character designer credit.?Producer is the most senior credit one can have on a game, even more so than director.
I like her stupid hat
>>737701240wtf is that dialogue lolso fucking chuuni
>>737701350I know rightIsn't it great?
>>737701240AND NOWTHE END IS NEAR
>>737701297what does the dark souls firekeeper have to do with ff15
>>737701240Producer to me implies funding the project, and usually not being creatively involved.But I guess I'm getting that impression from the film industry. And I guess "Creative Producer" does imply involvement. My point is, anyway, it's his game.
>>737701174I don't know about that, he basically wrote a high school shooting story and that somehow slipped past Disney before.
>>737701564They're both from dogshit games
>>737700669There is no consensus. There's a dichotomy where he's either a genius visionary and nothing is his fault or he's a completely clown that doesn't know how to get a game out the door because he's an incompetent ideas guy.
>>737701727In Japan producer can mean you're just a money man, it also often means you're the director++, and this can be the case even in Japanese film.
>>737701727Producer in Japan and producer in the states are very different things, i believe Harada goes over it on his show
>>737701789He's arguably slipped worse past Disney. But Versus XIII wouldn't have needed to slip anything past Disney. If you take my meaning.
>>737701883>>737701896Interesting
>>737700992>it was Nomura's idea to make VII Remake a pseudo-sequel instead of a regular remake, not sure if he's the one who created the time jannies or if it was NojimaComplete opposite actually.Nomura was the one that wanted conviced them to tone it down into a hidden sequel, instead of just outright making FF7 2.
>>737702020Wanted a straight remake*
>>737700669He's generally considered belts and zippers man, mostly because of his work on PS2 games, so some character designs just scream "Nomura did this." As an actual director, there's no consensus. Kingdom Hearts is incredibly successful and that's considered his brainchild, so he must be doing something right. There's a big split on whether his successes are good games or bad ones that still found an audience.
>>737702202If you're just looking at their gameplay, the Kingdom Hearts games are objectively good games. And then if you look at Nomura's involvement in non-Kingdom Hearts titles, he's been involved with most of Squaresoft/Square Enix's most beloved Final Fantasy games.
>>737700512Stella's design is insanely generic.
>>737702567He isn't good at keeping his games alive at all. Both TWEWY and Parasite Eve are now dead IPs. KH only stays afloat because of the Disney name.
>>737702767How the fuck is this supposed to be a criticism
>>737702767KH is keeping Disney alive. Popularity polls for the series consistently show KH original characters dominate the mouse.
>>737702950Yeah, but the majority of casuals are attached to the series because of Disney, which is why you see so many streamers drop it after KH2. Most don't actually care about the story.
>>737702767Sorry, butI'm not comparing Nomura to Kubrick, but to me that's like saying "Kubrick was really bad at keeping his movies alive. He only ever made one of A Clockwork Orange, Full Metal Jacket, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Dr. Strangelove, Eyes Wide Shut, Barry Lyndon, Paths of Glory, The Shining etc. etc. He never made any sequels so he's bad at keeping his movies alive."Parasite Eve and TWEWY are to my knowledge considered among some of Squaresoft/Square Enix's most beloved non-FF titles. And despite game dev being a much more collaborative team effort than filmmaking, where in film you could have one big ego director you could point to as clearly the driving visionary, but in games it's generally more a team effort, Nomura's name shows up a lot. In fact, I get the impression he's remarkably humble and under-credited to boot.
>>737702705You say that as if Luna's isn't. And even then mind we had Tifa, Tifa 2 (Rina) and Tifa 3 (Garnet), neverminding Remake/Rebirth giving us a dozen Tifas.
>>737703268How do you know most just don't want to play handheld games?
>>737703510You forgot Gaia, made for an expansion of FFXIV, and that now he even added to the new Dissidia mobile game.
>>737703634Gaia is a whole other can of worms
Just a reminder that Paine. Full stop.
>>737703779I count 13 belts, not nearly on Lulu's level
>>737703886I'm not looking at the belts
>>737704054Well you should of
>>737704115You're probably right actually.
>>737703779Is Paine the female Squall/Leon?
>>737704956Design-wise? Absolutely.
>>737704956>>737705104Wait, isn't Gaia?
>>737698327His Roen outfit was an improvement for "running around civilian areas" but he definitely should have changed into the Sasuke get-up mid-game.Losing the Yakuza/Mafia-As-King bit is the most egregious casualty (other than Stella).I'm glad it's okay to say Prompto's new hair suck nowadays.
>>737698767Fuck, what was the bottom left supposed to be? That's stunning, I've never seen it before.>inb4 ai
>>737699036Every trailer Nomura has ever been involved in has meta commentary on the development situation, so just watch those.
>>737705493Looks like the top of the party building in Kingsglaive
>>737698327The ultimate blackpill is that >1) it was Tetsuya Nomura, and his track record is not good>2) it was part of a trilogy, and trilogies are the opposite of Final Fantasythe reality is that XV is probably better than Versus XIII was going to be, but Versus XIII left its trilogy DNA (true) on XV, even though XV might not "technically" be part of a trilogy.
>>737700669There was apparently no chance of actually remaking FFVII verbatim because of content issues and the fact that it's so huge that it would take several games to cover everything and many of the original creators have retired/are going to retire/can't work in HD. So they approached it from the outset with the idea that it was going to be a tribute to VII and all the spin-offs, which necessarily involves running down most of the story, but also responding to fan expectations. Remake is actually great because it pretty much stays in lock step with fans' "I know what's about to happen here" by having Aerith have secret future knowledge and winking at the audience over and over.Some people didn't like it, I thought it was perfect. And the number one thing any VII fan wishes for is the option to save Aerith, so they had to start setting that up, and the only way to do that AND justice to the original moment is to imply that there's parallel timelines so that Cloud can both save her and fail to save her at the same time. Unfortunately, Rebirth did a TLJ and fumbled the baton pass and made everything actually weird instead just autist-ragebait weird. But you never hear about it because the muh cuhrazy twitch addicts will insist that the only thing that matters is that the battle system is better (which it isn't but they'll insist that).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEGP4Redu5E is lengthy but quite good.
>>737705684Damn, that'd be really blackpilling if it were anywhere near true.
>>737701727You're thinking of Hollywood producers. Production is basically, "We make this thing happen." In capitalist hellscape America, that generally means "make sure the money is going where it needs to get this thing made." In games, and even more so Japanese games, it's, "Coordinate all of the moving parts, often including disambiguating creative ambiguities, of which there might be smaller or greater amounts depending on the project."
>>737702705It's not. It's understated but very well-considered.
The original Stella, like most girls Nomura love to design, has that Gothic Lolita thing going for her.
>>737703886>13My man is obsessed.
>>737705684Is that the Finno-Korean hyperwar graph?
>>737706578NTAI'm in full agreement. Stella's design is understated but great, but the real loss is that her character in Versus XIII would have been anything but generic, and a very active/integral part of the story. Her role in the story would have made her iconic if not her design.Lunafreya on the other hand is such a non-character. That's the real shame.
>>737706682>Missing Link was supposed to come out last year, 13th anniversary of 3DIt's real.
Reminderhttps://youtu.be/KHrhe2M07m4
>>737706391It's true. Nomura was a good character designer, he is terrible at directing games. They all turn into Kingdom Hearts, which is to say that they are needlessly convoluted with absolutely zero substance behind them because Nomura doesn't understand "deep" and he doesn't truly understand the fundamental concept behind "twists" or "reveals", so he instead does asspulls completely out of left field that don't make any sense at all and usually occur in a long winded infodump to sort of "retcon" it into making sense because it does not actually make any sense at all. And as far as trilogies go, everyone knows that Final Fantasy declined. The only contention is whether X was the last good game or whether XII was the last good game. XII was the last game before Final Fantasy turned into a series of trilogies, and it is much better than XIII was, so I think the divide is pretty clear. Trilogies are the death of Final Fantasy. This began with FNC (which includes XV, formerly Versus XIII) and continues on with the VII Remake. We need Square Enix to start deporting illegal trilogies to Make Final Fantasy Great Again.
>>737698327Nomuratard fucks up everything. What a fucking cretin
>>737707536>It's true. Nomura was a good character designer, he is terrible at directing games.Yea I guess I'd believe this if it weren't for the long list of great games he's brought to completion as director.Won't be reading the rest of your post. I'm just not interested.
Nomura-san, a man denied his dream.https://youtu.be/5xrgOJMcZTA
>>737707293Thanks for shilling your unfunny youtube channel.
>>737707747Ah, you're a Nomura cultist. Naruhodo.
>>737698327So how exactly was ff versus 13 going to play like?
>>737707830Wouldn't even call myself a Nomura fanboy. Does it frustrate you that I find him more interesting than (You)
>>737707836There's gameplay footage in the Versus XIII trailers.
>>737707907>Wouldn't even call myself a Nomura fanboy.A Nomura cultist, of course, would not refer to himself as a Nomura cultist.
Anyone hear a little fly buzzing? >737708025
What about this KH4 trailer? https://youtu.be/lvTA95QRKxEWill he turn KH4 into a stealth Versus XIII game?
>>737702567I love a lot of Kingdom Hearts games. I also see flaws even in the ones I like. I'd love more games in that vein, but I also see why some people don't like them.
>>737705684>XV is probably better than Versus XIII was going to beThere were two publicly released demos, in this case of 15, but Nomura directed them. They both play way better than the released FF15. It's common to believe that FF15 never would've been finished under Nomura, but he's directed a ton of finished games already. If you can get Kingdom Hearts 3 out, you can get Final Fantasy 15 out.
>>737708581I mean sure, but that goes for everything.
>>737699439What was the actual work they got rid of and what was Nomura’s plan for the game?I don’t really understand what it was about the game that caused people to be so hyped, and mad when it was changed, was it just the original story premise seemed interesting?I think it would’ve been bad anyway
>>737708551No. The content planned for Versus XIII would have been hard "M" rated. Stranger of Paradise is laughably tame compared to what he was planning.
>>737708779>They both play way better than the released FF15I will acknowledge that Duscae did look and "play" (you hold square instead of circle) like 1-5% better than released XV. The playroom thing you can't say one way or the other. Neither of these things are the completed game though. Holding square instead of circle in a game with better shadows doesn't say anything about the story or anything else in the game, and I doubt it was directed by Nomura anyway because it released so closely to the actual release date and Nomura had been long gone at that point. The fact is that Tabata's frankensteins hodgepodge of Nomura's Versus XIII abortion likely turned out better than Versus XIII was ever going to be. It saddens me to say this, because I was the biggest Versus XIII/XV fan before it released. I played all the demos, I bought 2 collector's editions with the action figure, I preordered the deluxe edition from Gamestop for the side scroller, and I bought the XV edition PS4. It's time to look at Nomura's other work and face the music. If Nomura was ever able to complete Versus XIII, it probably would have been worse than XV. I'm able to see this truth now.
>>737709081You can check for yourself below. Including gameplay trailers.https://youtu.be/w0SSeBcWpJc
>>737709281I can easily conclude otherwise, simply by looking at the Kingdom Hearts series as a whole for comparison’s sake.Meanwhile Tabata has what to his credit? XIV?
>>737709337This is heavily scripted smoke and mirrors, built in the new engine. It doesn't reflect the actual gameplay Nomura built. You want the stuff in the actual Versus XIII trailers for that. >>737709281>Tabata's frankensteins hodgepodge of Nomura's Versus XIII abortion likely turned out better than Versus XIII was ever going to be. Haha.No.
>>737709598>This is heavily scripted smoke and mirrors, built in the new engine. It doesn't reflect the actual gameplay Nomura built.I'm not arguing otherwise, i'm just showing the reason why people got so disappointed when FFXV finally came out and was nothing like it.
>>737709598>This is heavily scripted smoke and mirrors,Was referring to the screenshot. Didn't realize this was a trailer compilation. The stuff in the 2011 trailer is what Nomura had actually worked on.
>>737709281Episode Duscae specifically had equipping weapons into different slots to use them only at certain times. That immediately made Noctis' ability to manifest a weapon out of thin air matter because he would pull out a new weapon the moment you pressed attack even while using another. There are tons of very specific gameplay considerations sort of like DMC3 jump cancel air combos that are probably too specific to go into, but the released FF15 removed all of them in favor of pretending the PS4 controller was a cell phone touch screen where you'd hold Attack and watch cool animations.
>>737709532>Meanwhile Tabata has what to his credit? XIV?As far as I know, he has not worked on XIV. He did do Type-0 though, which was the best FNC game and is also the only game part of a Final Fantasy trilogy which does not have a 4chan schizo attached to it. I do not believe this is a coincidence. >>737709598>Haha.>No.Probably, yeah. I know for a fact that I spent more money being hype for XV than any of you cultists. If I can finally come to terms with the most likely case, then so can you. >>737709779I played Duscae, anon. You don't need to explain it to me. I already said that I will admit that Duscae demo's gameplay and graphics are like 1-5% better than XV's. I also doubt it was directed by Nomura because it released so closely to XV's actual release and Nomura was long gone by then. Either way, that has nothing to do with the broader game, which Nomura was unable to complete. I'm talking about the entire game, story and all. As much as it pains me to admit, Tabata's XV is likely a better game than Nomura's Versus XIII would have been.
>>737709993>Probably, yeah. I know for a fact that I spent more money being hype for XV than any of you cultists. If I can finally come to terms with the most likely case, then so can you.>"cultists" out of nowhereAh you just have some kind of hate boner. Maybe you're some kind of Disney employee.
>>737710103I have no "hate boner" and I haven't watched a Disney movie since... Tangled? I've just been able to come to terms with reality.
>>737710243The reality is, Versus XIII's story sounded incredible. What we were shown of its gameplay looked great. And Disney seems to have a grudge against Square Enix and Nomura, to the extent that they'd have dedicated shitposters who'd try to control public opinion about the aforementioned on obscure indonesian basket weaving forums.
>>737710783>The reality is, Versus XIII's story sounded incredible. What we were shown of its gameplay looked great.And the thing is, I agree completely. >"[schizo babble]"Not gonna comment.
>>737711306If you agree with me completely, then you necessarily retract all your previous assertions that Final Fantasy XV is better than what Versus XIII would have been. In which case you admit you've just been making an ass of yourself for no real reason.
Whenever someone calls someone else a schizo for speaking against people in power, there's like a 2/3 chance they're covering their own ass, every time.
>>737711461>If you agree with me completely, then you necessarily retract all your previous assertions that Final Fantasy XV is better than what Versus XIII would have been.No, anon, that's not true at all. Perhaps this situation is too nuanced for you to comprehend. >>The reality is, Versus XIII's story sounded incredible. What we were shown of its gameplay looked great.Correct. That's why I was so hyped about it ever since the first trailer. That's why I spent probably ~$1000 on preordering XV shit. I wasn't really aware of game devs and their importance to a project back then. I was extremely disappointed with XV when it came out. Still am, if I'm being honest, even after they made it a lot better. However, the sad reality is that Versus XIII was a pipe dream, and all other pieces of Nomura work has generally been trash that is held together with mediocre gameplay. The reality is that Versus XIII was never going to be Nomura's magnum opus, it was always just going to be more Kingdom Hearts, because that's what Nomura always is. It's always just more Kingdom Hearts. Even Final Fantasy VII is Kingdom Hearts now thanks to Nomura. Tabata's XV is most likely a better game than Nomura's Versus XIII was ever going to be, and that's just the sad truth.
Why does he always show up in these threads. I don't understand what he gets out of it.
versus would have been one of nomuras worst games shit woulda sat nicely between the dumpster fires that were recom and bbs
>>737709281>The fact is that Tabata's frankensteins hodgepodge of Nomura's Versus XIII abortion likely turned out better than Versus XIII was ever going to be.No, and please go away.
>>737711781Nah. Stranger of Paradise exists anon.
>>737711810The likelyhood that he's on Disney's payroll is very high.
>>737711591I don’t get why that guy is calling everyone a schizo. People are simply pointing out the reasons why they wanted, or still care about, Versus, mainly because the trailers and demo made the game’s story and gameplay look interesting.Hell, it’s not that big of a deal. Looking at the Versus trailers and comparing them to some of the gameplay from KH, it’s clear Nomura wanted to seamlessly bridge cinematics with gameplay, creating moments where the player feels in control of these operatic, over-the-top scenes. Think Squall punching that Galbadian soldier in FF8 or Sora taking on 1,000 Heartless in KH2.
>>737711897>No, and please go away.I'm only here because you're being schizo and you keep replying to me while trying to tell me that I'm a Disney employee for some reason. I'm just a Final Fantasy fan who thought Versus XIII was going to be the greatest game of all time. I was extremely disappointed with XV, and I clung to the Versus XIII ghost for a long time, but I am able to see now that the true reality (based on more Nomura work) is that XV (now, perhaps not on release) was a better game than Versus XIII was ever going to be. I can see that now and recognize it as the truth. Additionally, they were both doomed from the start, because trilogies are the bane and downfall of Final Fantasy. We cannot restore Final Fantasy to its former glory until trilogies are behind us. >>737711912Stranger of Paradise isn't actually "Nomura", it's Team Ninja.
>>737711978>I don’t get why that guy is calling everyone a schizo.It's because people are catching on to Disney being a sour element in all of this. It's highly likely it's bad faith shitposting to try to control the narrative for Disney's sake.
>>737712136>Stranger of Paradise isn't actually "Nomura", it's Team Ninja.No. No that's just an outright falsehood.
I'm>>737705493>>737706193>>737706501>>737706682>>737711810and>>737711897Take your meds.
>>737698327>I still think about it sometimes.>sometimesalways
Remember when the Type-0 remaster ended on a sequel hook?
>>737711978>I don’t get why that guy is calling everyone a schizo.see: >>737711306Someone began melting down at me, doing schizo babble about Disney and insinuating that I'm a "dedicated shitposter" when I'm not. And now he's samefagging or something, agreeing with himself that I'm a Disney employee. I'm calling him a schizo because he is schizophrenic. >>737712307>No that's just an outright falsehood.It's true, anon. Stranger of Paradise is basically Final Fantasy Nioh. I guess you don't play enough video games to know that. Team Ninja loves Final Fantasy. They did fantastic, passionate work with Opera Omnia, also alongside Nomura. But Nomura's role in Opera Omnia was really just nailing the characters. For example, he had the final say on which voice actor became the canon VA for characters who had never been voiced before. Nomura is attached to Opera Omnia, through Dissidia, but it was actually a Team Ninja game, just like SoP is a Team Ninja game, not a Nomura game.
i've tried to play XV several times but the early chapters are just so boring
>>737712512It's entirely within reason that someone as relentless, schizo, and such a straight up lying-ass as you is on corporate payroll.
>>737712512People call out Nomura when they see SoP not just because of the designs, but also due to the story elements and overall style. While FF1 focuses on time travel and time loops, SoP almost feels like it could be straight out of FF8.In fact, I’d say FF8 broke Nomura. Almost everything that followed with heavy Nomura involvement feels like a rehash of FF8. The protagonists all feeling like another take on River Phoenix is a big sign of this. Take Noctis in FFXV and the entire opening using "Stand By Me".
>>737712789People "call out Nomura" when they see SoP because it's his project, which he was involved with on every aspect short of actually programming it.
Can I get the TLDR of what versus 15 was supposed to be
>>737712736This is why I keep calling you a schizo anon. I'm not "relentless", I'm not "straight up lying-ass", and I'm definitely not "schizo" either. You're the one who keeps trying to tell me I'm on Disney payroll, like what the fuck? That's the weirded schizo babble I've ever been accused of in 20 years of 4chan (though to be fair, 99% of the schizophrenia has happened in the past 5-7 years)>>737712789That's fine. I'm just letting you and whoever know that Stranger of Paradise is a Team Ninja game with Nomura's name on it, same as Opera Omnia was. And actually, in a sort of ironic way I guess, Team Ninja seems to have a lot of favoritism towards Type-0, a Tabata game. >>737712937XV was supposed to be Versus XIII. Just watch any of the trailers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6At_bb1PNU
>>737713057Take your meds Schizo
>>737712937No.
>>737709993>I played Duscae, anon. You don't need to explain it to me.I wanted to go over fun parts of the demos that weren't in the finished game. Combat was just better in those.
>>737712937The closest you'll get is playing Stranger of Paradise, reading the story leak email, and MGSV and Death Stranding which borrowed elements from the planned story. Namely the issue of hallucinations in MGSV, and sensing the spirits of the dead and the Extinction Entity in Death Stranding.
>>737698554>I guess that's what happens when you replace the original director with the director of 3rd Birthday.they replaced Nomura with Nomura?
>>737713753>Namely the issue of hallucinations in MGSVNot just that. There was the whole "slowly becoming the devil" issue in MGSV
>>737713753>>737713905The fuck are you guys on about?
>>737709081We don't know a lot about what was planned. There are things like characters, stealing vehicles and scenes that just we're in the final game. The cast was apparently in a death worship cult, which is why they wear all black and live in the city of Insomnia (suggesting death is rest). The trailers also showed off action combat that looked like Kingdom Hearts, along with a lot of other things that just weren't in the final game.
>>737698554>It's astounding that so much of the work done under Nomura was thrown out for the final release and every new decision sucks.I will remind everyone once again that we don't actually know that ever new decision sucks. For all we know, the Tabata decisions were better than the Nomura decisions, because Versus XIII isn't actually a game, and every single other piece of media that Nomura touches (ex: FFVII) always turns into Kingdom Hearts. The overwhelming majority of evidence points to Versus XIII just being yet another Kingdom Hearts.
>>737714075You keep mentioning Kingdom Hearts as a bad thing. I don't know why.
>>737712493
>>737714139>I don't know why.I already explained it: >>737707536 >>737707830You said you wont read it though.
>>737713797Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
>>737713958Frankly, I don't want to get into itSuffice to sayThey shamelessly used some of Nomura's story outlines for this trailerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNM6o9um1dcSpoilers for Stranger of Paradise, but a central plot point is the ritual sacrifice of Jack's love interestYou look at that game, what happens in it, and the reasons why and it seems like a glimpse of what Versus XIII was aiming to be. Squares well with the leaks.
>>737714393>They shamelessly used some of Nomura's story outlines for this trailerOh right I remember that trailer. That got me really hyped for XV. Shame none of what it was implying actually ended up in the game.
>>737709081Originally Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Agito XIII (later Type-0), and Final Fantasy Versus XIII (later XV), would share a foundational creation myth written by scenario writer Kazushige Nojima. The overarching mythos is fundamentally a story about absent gods, cursed humans, and the realm of the dead.The Maker: A supreme god named Bhunivelze killed his mother, Mwynn, sending her to the Unseen Realm (the afterlife).The fal'Cie: To find the door to the Unseen Realm and rescue/destroy his mother, Bhunivelze created demigods called the fal'Cie.The Goddess Etro: One of these demigods, Etro, was created in the exact image of Mwynn. Disgusted by this, Bhunivelze gave Etro no powers. Heartbroken, Etro killed herself to join Mwynn in the Unseen Realm. Her spilled blood created humanity.The Curse (l'Cie): The fal'Cie cannot act against their programming, so they brand humans (creating l'Cie) to do their dirty work. If a human completes their assigned "Focus," they turn to crystal to live eternally. If they fail, they mutate into mindless monsters called Cie'th.While FFXIII leaned heavily into the sci-fi elements of that mythos, Tetsuya Nomura’s Versus XIII was meant to be the dark, grounded, modern interpretation. It was pitched with the tagline: "A fantasy based on reality."
>>737698327Versus XIII is the embodiment of the Potential Man meme in video game form. That and Sonic 06, but a modder is actually fixing that game.
>>737709081>I think it would’ve been bad anywayThat's the most likely reality, yes. I've come to terms with it now. It seems other people have not yet reached enlightenment, as it were.
>>737714515>While FFXIII leaned heavily into the sci-fi elements of that mythos, Tetsuya Nomura’s Versus XIII was meant to be the dark, grounded, modern interpretation. It was pitched with the tagline: "A fantasy based on reality."There was also the political commentary angle. What Nomura was doing was arguably politically risky, and is probably the primary reason the game doesn't exist as intended. "A fantasy based on reality" was not just referring to its modern setting.
>>737714626I hope you kill yourself and your "enlightened doomerism" disappears with you.
>>737698327They look the same.
>>737714515Here are the most significant aborted ideas and concepts that gave those early Versus XIII trailers their distinct, darker soul:In the original lore, the Kingdom of Lucis worshipped Etro, the goddess of death from the Fabula Nova Crystallis mythos. This is why Noctis and his retinue wear all black, it is the attire of a kingdom that reveres the Shinigami (Reaper). Lucis was viewed by the rest of the world as a grim, unsettling nation.The original dynamic of the Lucian royal court was heavily inspired by Japanese Yakuza films and mafia tropes. King Regis and his council operated like a modern crime syndicate protecting their turf. The tone was far more cynical, political, and violent than the road-trip brotherhood vibe of FFXV.Both Noctis and Stella survived near-death experiences as children. Because of this, they were "blessed" by Etro with the ability to see a literal light descending from the sky when people were about to die. Their shared trauma and unique sight were meant to be the core of their emotional connection.The devastating invasion of the capital city by the Niflheim Empire, which happens entirely off-screen in FFXV and was relegated to the CGI movie Kingsglaive, was originally the playable opening act of Versus XIII. After attending a tense peace-treaty party Noctis was supposed to fight his way out of the collapsing city and eventually clash with Stella as the city burned around them.This is the most famous casualty of the rewrite. Stella was originally the female lead. Unlike FFXV's Lunafreya (who is a distant, supportive oracle), Stella was designed to be a foil and unwilling enemy to Noctis. They shared a tragic, star-crossed dynamic where political allegiances forced them to draw swords against each other, despite having a deep mutual understanding. Shuuni Romeo and Juliet.
>>737714712I wont, but thank you for your kind words of encouragement, benevolent and well-adjusted anon.
>>737714772>Shuuni Romeo and Juliet.goddamnit we were robbed
>>737714826Get back to me when you're dead!
>>737714848>>737714772Don't forget Midsummer Night's Dream
>>737714249You're speaking nonsense. I love that Kingdom Hearts nonsense. Inject that shit into my veins. I don't even care that the concept of the Kingdom of Hearts changed with each release.
>>737714515>>737714772And the reality is: >none of this happened>XIII was trash>Type-0 was the best FNC game and was made by Tabata>no follow through anywhere>boy band road trip XV was probably better than whatever Versus XIII was going to beShoulda, coulda, woulda - but wasn't.
>>737714772>>737714848>>737714990When you realize that Nomura is a fan of that Romeo and Juliet movie with Leo DiCaprio and possibly other movies from the same director everything start to make sense. He has that same gay ass art sensibility.
>>737715184Was, in my heart.And Stranger of Paradise is one of the best action games I've ever played, so there's that.
>>737715301>He has that same gay ass art sensibility.Gotta love your chronic reddit insincerity anon. Really elevates public discourse when we pretend liking Shakespeare is gay (pejorative).
Gothic Shinjuku would've been a cool setting. KH4/Verum Rex just looks like regular Shinjuku
>>737715184>XIII was trashit had bad direction but very strong elements. >>Type-0 was the best FNC game and was made by Tabatait was decent at best. it was inexcusably grindy. I don't think Tabata was a good director, especially with his idiotic idea to implement mobile game elements to console games.
>>737715517>it was decent at best.I know. Which was good enough to make it the best FNC.
>>737715731XIII is better
>>737715442NTA, but have you seen the modern Romeo and Juliet? I watched it in school and everyone made fun of it, even the teacher. It's gotta be campy on purpose.
To say that SoP have almost no Nomura influence is crazy. Tetsuya Nomura was the creative producer and character designer, and Kazushige Nojima wrote the story. When they partnered with Team Ninja, they finally had an outlet to release the pent-up, mature-rated aggression they had been designing years prior.While SoP is technically a prequel to the original 1987 Final Fantasy I, Nojima wrote its lore to mirror the cynical FFXIII mythos almost perfectly. In FFXIII, the fal'Cie were aloof demigods branding humans to do their dirty work. In SoP, the Lufenians are an aloof, highly advanced dimensional civilization treating the world of Cornelia like a giant petri dish, manipulating memories and resetting timelines to maintain "balance." Just like the l'Cie who turn into crystal monsters (Cie'th) when they fail their focus, Jack and his party are stripped of their memories and forced into a continuous, agonizing loop of violence by higher powers until they physically mutate into the villains of FF1 (Fiends/Chaos).Just as the original Kingdom of Lucis worshipped the Goddess of Death, Jack's ultimate realization is that the only way to save Cornelia from the manipulative "gods" (the Lufenians) is to embrace ultimate darkness. He intentionally becomes the ultimate villain, Chaos, to sever the Lufenians' connection to the world. It is a deeply cynical ending where the only path to salvation is through supreme villainy.
>>737715830I think I did but it's been ages. I'm not exactly one to turn away from campy though. I'll take Lynch's Dune over Villenuve's any day.
>>737715184>Type-0 was the best FNC game and was made by Tabata"Best FNC game" isn't a big achievement. I would still rather play FF15, even though it pissed me off constantly, because it's a lot closer to a game I would like than Type-0.
>>737715731>the best FNC.that doesn't mean anything. it was a bland game. yes XIII had a 15 hour intro and that was bad, but overall it had more interesting parts.
>>737715978>I'm not exactly one to turn away from campy though.Yeah that's fine, but you're disparaging "chronic reddit insincerity" anon for taking a bit of a stab at the Leo DiCaprio Romeo and Juliet movie where everyone drives cars and has guns with words like "sword" on them while pretty much verbatim reciting the original Shakespearean dialogue that the actors clearly cannot comprehend. Just trying to put what you're angry about into perspective.
>>737715998>>737716039Correct, best FNC game doesn't really mean a lot. Type-0 was still the best one though, which is sad.
>>737715914>It is a deeply cynical ending where the only path to salvation is through supreme villainy.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQzdAsjWGPg
>>737716128Can you try to phrase what you're saying in a way that doesn't make you sound like a redditor who's afraid of sincerity?
>>737716251I'm not the guy who brought the movie up, anon. I just think you're acting butthurt about nothing while spewing out inaccurate descriptors for no real reason other than to signify that you're angry and that you wish for your enemy to be branded by the group as someone who does not belong. >t. been on 4chan since 2006
>>737715442What the >>737715830 & >>737716128 said. There is being a fan of Shakespeare, and there being a fan of that director's take on Romeo and Juliet. The movies from that director is a very particular style of gay.https://youtu.be/s_BnBGbxaig
>>737716329You cannot comprehend the power of my butthurt>>737716336Is this supposed to look bad?
>>737716336>Exit Music (for a Film) by Radiohead used in the Leo DiCaprio Romeo and Juliet adsI completely forgot about that. How "meta".
>>737716571Not only that, Radiohead made it for that movie.
>>737716618I did not know that. That's better than them taking it and using it for that movie. Strange though.
>>737716662That is the definition of that movie.
I'll take 00's "strange" over whatever the fuck we've got going on these days.
>>737698917Any idiot who's vagally creative can make a Blueprint for "The Best game ever". Actually making it is the hard part. Even with a million dollars worth of funding and several hundreds of dipshit devs behind you, it's still a herculean task.If your actually smart, you don't try to make the best thing ever made, You make the best thing you know you can and you push yourself when you think it's appropriate.
>>737698327I don't but man did I have fun mind breaking xv-kun back in the day.It's a shame Versus was fucking gutted, the story they had set up seemed pretty cool. XV on the other hand...
>>737716185>Type-0 was still the best one thoughyou keep repeating that but no. it was bland. it was a 7 like XIII. but XIII had higher highs.
>>737716984>you keep repeating that but no.Okay. >XIII had higher highsNo.
>>737716662>>737716618Radiohead actually made two musics for that movie.https://youtu.be/TzwJI0WYLVkThey've never done that before or since.
>>737717154I remember liking that song a lot when I had my Radiohead phase in high school. Had no idea it was made for that movie.
>>737698327I have that game in my library but never opened it
>>737717257That movie had a stellar OSTThe fact it inspired FF8 so much, and possibly more, is hilarious.
>>737707836like KH
Still rewatch it sometimes.I even tuned in to the livestream where this trailer was first shown. I was so excited for the game bros...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIx9VJWSl8
>>737698554What so much work? It was only, ever, a tech demo.
>>737698327Luna is infinitely hotter than Stella.
>>737698767In what way? It was just emos fighting in Tokyo. Hardly ambitious.
>>737717354>I was so excited for the game bros...I wish we could go back to when we were naive and thought the world was large and that video games were the future. Now everything seems so small and you can immediately place all video games into one of like 3 categories because they keep being copies of each other.
>>737717354This and TLG both got fucked up by corporate fuckers
>>737698327About how fucking shit it would be? It's story sounded even shittier than the FFXIII we got, and the FFXV we got, and those were both trash. "So, see, the world is divided into 2, a world of the living and dead, but if you have a near death experience you can see dead people and take their power from them and be a super hero!"Typical Nomura weeb trash, that is somehow more weeb trash than the average weeb trash SE has been attempting to appeal to since X.
>>737698327The reality is that Nomura's versus XIII wasn't gonna be that much better than what we actually got. It was in development hell partially because of his own fault and autism, he kept changing shit over and over and over. Square Enix is the fucking wortst, I don't think anyone beats them in terms of dev hell and extremely long development times. They're unbeatable in that department, and it's completely their own fault.
>>737717547It's not like this would've been an innovative, boundary-pushing groundbreaking experience either. They were basically selling the idea of Kingdom Hearts gameplay but for grown ups, and that was all my 20 year old self wanted back then.Of course this was all back when Square Enix could still be afforded the benefit of the doubt (somehow). I wouldn't even trust them to deliver the most obvious homerun ever nowadays so it's not like I'd still want any of their output, but it's still tragic.
>>737714772does kingslaive retain some of the original tone of this?
>>737718012nta and I didn't read his post but nohell I can't even remember that shitty movie except that it was completely pointless to watch
>>737717871The reality is it's time for you to shut the fuck up, schizo.
>>737717857What's it like being a man with no taste?
>>737698327I thought Luna was a massive upgrade. I think she's one of the prettiest Final Fantasy girls.
>>737718012They teased at it with >>737714393, but no.
>>737698327OBLIGATORYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KyyecVembI
>>737718737She looks like she's painfully boring in bed. Which also summarizes my feelings about FFXV.
>>737718737Luna is a very pretty princess, but that's it. Even in the game itself, she appears so little, and does so little, she becomes a non-entity. Meanwhile Stella was a fuck-me-at-bathroom-stall goth-like romantic figure that would actually be important.
>>737717871We have no clue if the (kino) aesthetics and themes he was evoking on the trailers would've manifested on a good storytelling or setting.But there's a reason to believe that at least it would've been fun to play. And it's as simple as: the game was being developed by the Tokyo Team (or former "Square Product Development Division 1"). The team was behind every mainline Final Fantasy game from 7 onwards, and on the action rpg department they were the team behind The World Ends with You 1, Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 (the latter especially having a tight fun replayable combat system that still holds up to this day). The last footage they publicly showed already showed promise. For the record, Divison 1 was completely butched in 2013 because of internal reestructuring and its members were split across various units so the team would never work together on a single project ever again.Meanwhile, the second Tabata the hack took control of the project he took a shit on the gameplay part and made it a game where "you hold a button and something awesome happens!" (interview from 2014)Thanks, Tabata, you truly saved gaming.
>>737718875>She looks like she's painfully boring in bedThose feet look fun, though.
>>737719068Yea. I can't believe I'm writing this, but you're looking at her as an object.
Reminder Yozora is Square IP and KH is the Trojan horse for Nomura's final masterpiece
>>737719012>We have no clue if the (kino) aesthetics and themes he was evoking on the trailers would've manifested on a good storytelling or setting.We have Stranger of Paradise. I think it's safe to assume, if he were allowed to cook...
game needed more lightning
You know, looking at these trailers, i am almost, almost... inclined to believe that bullshit R=U fanfic. Nojima and Nomua seems to like the idea of the hero killing the heroine. Kind of sus.
>>737719289They just like Shakespeare.
The idea of a royal family inspired by Yakuza mobsters that wear all black and worship death is just too cool. I hope one day Nomura can do something with that.
>>737719289>i am almost, almost... inclined to believe that bullshit R=U fanficYou, completely unironically, need to bend over backwards while ignoring a veritable mountain of evidence in order to claim that Rinoa is not Ultimecia. And the one (1) single, solitary piece of evidence that Rinoa is *not* Ultimecia is that Kitase said one time that R =/= U... which he later rescinded and explained that he doesn't actually know because he didn't write that part, it's just that it's not something he picked up on if it is real.
It really is a tragicomedy of game development. Tabata essentially took the "Fabula Nova Crystallis" concept, which was originally meant to be separate, complete games sharing a mythos, and mutated it into the Final Fantasy XV Universe, where a single narrative was shattered into a dozen pieces of required homework across different media.The way Square Enix tried to patch the sinking ship of FFXV’s narrative with disconnected spin-offs is one of the most infamous examples of fragmented storytelling in gaming history. To get the actual, complete Day-1 story of Final Fantasy XV, a player had to consume:Kingslave. So instead of letting you play through the devastating invasion of your own kingdom, which was the original plan for Versus XIII, they carved it out and turned it into a CGI movie. You start the game on a road trip, completely disconnected from the political tension and the fall of Insomnia, because all the dramatic heavy lifting was outsourced to an external film.And if you wanted to know why Noctis, Prompto, Ignis, and Gladiolus actually cared about each other, you had to go watch a five-episode anime series on YouTube (Brotherhood). Without it, you are just dropped into a car with three guys who seem like they are just there to nag you about your posture and driving.This is where the attempts to "improve" the game became painfully obvious during a playthrough. The developers actively created gaping narrative holes just to sell the patches later:Episode Gladiolus: Gladio randomly gets angry, leaves the party for a while, and comes back with a new scar.Episode Ignis: The most egregious one. A massive, world-altering battle happens off-screen in Altissia, and Ignis returns permanently blinded. If you only played the base game, you had absolutely no idea how it happened or what he sacrificed.Episode Prompto: He gets knocked off a train, disappears, and you find out later he had an entire metal-gear-style espionage adventure in the snow.
>>737699036The tldr is Nomuras team who made kh2 were god tier. They wanted to make ff versus 13 but core members of the team kept getting fucked by square and taken to other dog shit projects. Dream team disbanded and it took so long they scrapped it. Thats why no kh3 for so long and it felt different because Osaka team took over which is not the kh2 dream team. Just a dumb executive choice.
>>737720054The funniest (and saddest) part of their attempt to fix the game is how it ended. They announced a second wave of DLC called The Dawn of the Future (Episodes Ardyn, Aranea, Lunafreya, and Noctis) intended to give the game a "golden ending" where everyone fights the gods and lives. Because dear God we had a somewhat sad ending like originally intended. But then when Hajime Tabata left the project they canceled the DLCs (except Ardyn) and published the rest of the scripts as a standalone novel. So, to get the "true" finalized vision of FFXV's expanded universe, fans had to read a book about canceled video game expansions.
>>737720119>So, to get the "true" finalized vision of FFXV's expanded universe, fans had to read a book about canceled video game expansions.This really all stems from Squaresoft and Square Enix both trying to "force" every new Final Fantasy to recapture Final Fantasy VII's success, which is now finally seeming to have been milked to death. This all can be traced back to the VII Compilation. Everything wrong with Final Fantasy can be traced back to the VII Compilation.
>>737699036Nomura pitches a doomed project in the dogshit FFXIII universe, unexpectedly, it's doomed to fail. Nomura jumps ship and appoints Tabata as the captain of the sinking ship to take the full blame. Retards still tout "OH WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN" Just like 3rd Birthday
>>737720054That menu-driven approach completely shatters the immersion and the narrative momentum of the main campaign.If you are playing the game naturally and reach the chapter where Gladio suddenly leaves the party, you essentially have to save your game, back out to the title screen, boot up "Episode Gladiolus" from a separate menu, play a two-hour standalone campaign, and then load your original save file just to pretend it all happened seamlessly. It is an incredibly clunky way to experience a story.
>>737698327Still more soulful than everything Square sharted out since, including KH3
>>737698554The work was either thrown out or not complete under Nomura's direction. According to Ferarri, direction on the game changed rapidly
>>737720682That happened because each of the character episodes was essentially built as a standalone testbed for entirely different genres of gameplay. Episode Prompto turned the game into a third-person over-the-shoulder shooter. Episode Ignis introduced a grappling hook and high-speed elemental dagger combat. Episode Gladiolus played more like a heavy hack-and-slash game with a parry meter. The developers literally couldn't slot those heavily modified mechanics seamlessly into the middle of the base game's code at the time without breaking it.The DLCs were also developed by separate, smaller teams while the main team was still trying to patch the base game. They were built as isolated modules because that was the only way they could hit their release schedules.And... some of the DLCs, specifically Episode Ignis, actually contain massive spoilers for the end of the entire game. If a new player seamlessly transitioned into it during Chapter 9, the ending of the game would be entirely ruined for them.Now why they did it that way is anyone's guess.
Tfw went from best jrpg since ff7 to hold circle to shill cup noodle
