is ray tracing just a meme that will be abandoned in the future?
>brings up larger storage requirements>ignores that every UE5 game is 50gb at minimum, even for something that looks like a 20gb UE4 game
It is a meme, but it's a meme that makes devs' jobs a lot easier, so it'll stay with us until we start injecting the graphics directly into out brains.
>>739184705>be /v/>cry about 120gb games>industry suggests alternative>shit your pants
I had to look at the thread myself, but wtf is he fucking smoking here? Yeah, UE4 had stutter, especially later in its life, but it's nothing up against the UE5 shader stutter, or UE5 itself running worse even for games running like-for-like settings (eg. Multiversus and Pavlov VR both got engine upgrades during their relevancy, and both had a performance hit despite looking the 'same' after, and neither used Lumen/Nanite).Two gens ago I didn't need the equivalent of a high end GPU to make my games not look like a blurry mess at 1080p.
>>739184705>larger storage requirementsIsn't this, in a game of give and take, the better resource to use in terms of availability for an average user?Isn't someone more likely to have "too much" storage compared to "too much" GPU power and memory?
>>73918497340gb is just uncompressed voice lines for 12 different languages
>>739184705Not really, actually we'll reach a point where every new game ONLY has raytracing by default. There are already quite a few games like that. Probably another console generation or two before it becomes the norm.
>>739184973People think that RT not multiple bakes inflates install sizes.
>>739184973>every gaytracing game is almost 200gigs
>>739184705Why is that even a question? Everyone knows that it's useless outside of posting meme screenshots. Anyone who fell for it are idiots.
>>739185134rtx on vs rtx off
>>739185134because it still needs baked lightning to support poorfags (like (You))
>>739185067No it isn't. Audio in UE5 games is highly compressed and decompressed at runtime. It only influences ram usage not storage. The real storage space devour are GI solutions that use pre-baked light maps to interpolate for dynamic lights. You have to have dozens of bake states for each room and each open space.
>>739184705>stable 30fps?>perfect!
>>739185134Doom dark ages despite being raytracing-only is actually lighter than the previous entry doom eternal for me, 83.37 vs 89.47 gigs
>>739185067I remember when titanfall did this, shit pissed me off
>>739185204Reach > elitism if your goal is to sell things.There is no "premium market" for video games, and you don't get "premium build quality" based on system requirements.
>>739185313Doom Eternal got severely bloated by the DLC. It launched at 46gb, which is less than what 2016 was.
>>739184973>baked lighting>1gb>mexican, russian, brazilian voices>50gb>4k textures that 5% of gamers can use>50gb
>>739184973>>industry suggests alternative
>>739185443>4k textures that 5% of gamers can useReally depends on how the textures are used, not the resolution. 4K environment would be easily visible at 1080p if the texel scale is at a level to actually warrant 5k environment textures (eg. 8x8 meter surface)
>engine developers create tools to make life easier and more optimized for game developers>game developers and artists somehow negate all performance gainsisn't it whacky
>>739185441You know what's kinda funny, I don't have the base game lmao I only bought the dlcs because I already pirated the base game, that must mean they just do a license check and nothing else
>>739184705Ray tracing is good only in motion due to its dynamic nature (which is also what makes it so computationally expensive), if you confront two static images of course baked lighting can look better.The question should rather be "how much raytracing is necessary and how much is overkill", since even, say, F.E.A.R. had dynamic lighting, but it was used so well that it can still look amazing for a 2008 game.
>>739184705>goymers see 250gb CoD and say HELL YEAH!
>>739184705>need another solution for dynamic objectsOK but old games like Thief, Deus Ex, or Max Payne 2 seemed to have this figured out. The levels had baked lighting but also had tons of dynamic physics objects that you could move or destroy. Moreso than new games actually.
>>739184705Baked lighting doesn't have any "extended processing times" for the users, only for the devs exporting shit. Imagine complaining about compile times.Also, it shouldn't require more storage because by definition, you are baking lighting into the textures.
>>739186312max payne2 was the first thing that came to my mind tooevery fucking prop had crazy physics on it, and it looks fucking great
>>739186312People like John genuinely think we're all retarded and don't remember the tons of games that had lots of dynamic interactive objects in the environment long before realtime raytracing was even a twinge in Jensen's ballsack.I have no idea why they keep trying to trot out this retarded talking point because anyone who actually plays games knows that it's retarded.
>>739186645>you are baking lighting into the textures.And retards like you can post here. No, moron, it's a giant, almost per-level(or per chunk of the level) texture that overlays final material in multiply mode
>>739184705>If anything in the world moves, it becomes a problem quickly.Brother has he PLAYED A FUCKING UE5 game? Dogshit TAA/Lumen causes blurring and artefacts all over the image
>>739186863>he's not pre-multiplying the textures togetherThe only retard here is you, why are you wasting storage doing that?
>>739184705Lumen is not even Ray tracing you retards
it's THE future
>>739186863>that overlays final material in multiply modeAnd retards like you can post here. It doesn't overlay the material, it's added to the ambient lighting term inside the shader.
Gay tracing will probably be great years from now.
Why can't he simply not engage in these conversations? It's as easy as not posting.John, listen, pal. If you wanna get into these arguments for no reason, just do it anonymously on 4chan. It's like a hack for having pointless conversations without ruining your reputation.
>>739184705>the lighting will change in dynamic scenes!!!Meanwhile every single 3d game ever made has LOD models that pop in and out of existence and sometimes glitch out and make flickering artifacts all over.
>>739187106But if he's anonymous, how will he stroke his ego?
>>739187004It does have support for actual raytracing, but most games don't use it
>>739184705Man, somebody sure is jelly that he can't use Ray/Path Tracing.
>>739187202Because it runs fucking worse for minimal games over the non-RT high preset, nor do you have the option to even use your RT cores to make the lower-precision versions of Lumen run faster instead so your CUDA cores can be put to use elsewhere.
>>739184705baked lighting involves devs doing actual work so no, RT is here to stay
I can appreciate that games should push graphics development forward. No issues with that concept.What I have an issue with is that graphics are so far ahead of everything else in game dev that the difference has become so overt as to be distracting.Games are functionally no different at all than they were in 2013. So maybe the money could be spent elsewhere for at least a little while is all I'm saying.
>>739184705john is going to get replaced by a jeet before retirement age with that attitude
>>739184705>if stuff moves aroundMost scenes are pathetically static these days, also baked lighting can pretty easily deal with moving objects for the most part, see Source engine. You don't really need crazy dynamic light and shadow tech in every scene, I would say you don't need more than like 2 dynamic lights per scene 95% of the time.
>>739186645Compile times are a big issue for devs.
>>739187263Absolutely nothing is preventing that from being baked instead of frying the user's GPU computing it every frame in real time.
>>739187281It does run worse but not by a lot in the most recent UE versions, the older versions which a lot of games are on hardware lumen was unusable performance wise.>>739187347>baked lighting involves devs doing actual work so nothe really not much more work compared to real time outside of bake times. For most devs with UE those bake times wouldn't be bad for those doing that if Epic fixed their goddamn gpu lightmapper.
Valve made this in 2004 and it runs on a toaster. Meanwhile the "RTX" version runs at 20 fps without DLSS and framegen on a 5090.
>>739184705
>>739184705>>739185134Not surprised the DF guys are doing apologetics for this, their whole job depends on advertising new hardware and new games. They also shill every single demakeslop that comes out
Even global illumination is a meme
I don't know why Lumen couldn't be used for runtime lightmap generation of 'good enough' quality, and only update them when required, rather than processing it every fucking frame.Even The Finals doesn't use Lumen and it's one of the few games that is the poster-child for the kind of needs that would justify it (environment conditions that are constantly changing)
>Storage requirementsThat should have been solved long ago by modular downloads. There is no reason I should be downloading textures for graphics settings I don't use and audio for languages I don't speak. And optionally, you should be able to download linear games level by level.
>>739184705did he realize after finishing his tweet with "if anything in the world moves, it becomes a problem quickly." also applies to raytracing because of ghosting / after images and that's why he followed up by crashing out? kekprobably not but amusing to consider
>>739185276I have the same cargo shorts
/v/'s contrarianism so predictable. I remember when there would be frequent threads askingabout Toy Story/pre rendered graphics and people dreaming of real time raytracing becoming reality.
>>739187696One of the reasons is that lumen doesn't resolve in one frame. Each frame only does a small part of the scene and they average it over many frames--like hundreds of frames. Its why lumen looks so grainy when you actually stare at shadows. But yes, in theory if nothing changes in the scene after a few seconds, they could optimize it to stop processing. I don't know why they don't.
>>739184705Let's ignore devs were able to perfectly do that and games were less 10gbI hate digital faggotry so much
>>739187823We wanted realtime raytracing in full (or at least half) resolution without all the noise.Not this ugly disgusting 1/8th res single RPP noisy bullshit with artifacts everywhere.
>>739187798He also forgets that game worlds are actually just static now. The world of dynamic objects, outside of things like half life alyx (an actually interestingly designed game that does things you don't see in other games), just don't exist anymore. Hell I remember DF praising Gears 5 because it pulled off really stable graphics and looked good at the expense of things not being very dynamic... That's the case for basically every game now anyway. There used to be games with novelty factors and reactive worlds and all that, but now games with fancy graphics are reserved for being a backdrop that exists statically while you walk from point a to point b.
>>739187823Most people know fuck all about this type of stuff.
>>739184973kek. And they will read this, not understand what you're on about, and keep on babyraging.
>>739187696>I don't know why Lumen couldn't be used for runtime lightmap generation of 'good enough' quality,I've thought the same thing multiple times.>Store all lighting data in a file and compute the lightmap behind a loading screen>do all the denoise filtering stuff and what not to speed up computation time>dispose lightmap when you are done with the levelyou get the benefit of ray tracing tied without having to store the lightmaps ahead of time plus you could let the end user determine the resolution based on their hardwareSurely someone must've tried this or at least written about it.
>>739187960>But what if you demolished a tower like you could in red faction! Then the shadows with all the baked in bounce lighting wouldn't make sense anymore!>Can you demolish all of the buildings like in red faction?>n- shut up!
>>739187926This. What we have right now really isn't good enough. there are too many caveats.
>>739184973Or they can simply optimize with their own created engine instead of using "their" unreal engine.
>>739184705>baked lightingNow poorfags will complain that they need another 200GB of storage space for the game in addition to it running like shit on their 10+ year old GPUs
>>739186312It's not that they "figured it out" because you can spot the limitations all over the place if you know where to look for them (especially with the lack of dynamic shadows) but they were very good at hiding the shortcomings of the rendering power and techniques at the time.Someone like John sounds like he'd throw a fucking fit if he turned out all the lights in a room in Thief 1 or 2 and saw light from the next room bleeding through the adjoining closed door, but anyone who gets deep enough into the game itself or dromed just accept it because seriously it's not a big deal as you're playing. It certainly isn't something that makes the player think that we need to kill 95% of the performance only to still look spotty and poorly sampled with AI reconstructed resolution and frames just to still be a playable game.But then this is DF, not actual gamers.
>>739186971got to be bait
>>739188196Yeah because Half-Life 2 is 200GB.
>>739188297no anon you don't understand half life 2 isn't an outrageously bloated empty world game with 300 hours of sloptent where most of the playtime is the video game equivalent of doomscrolling tiktok it's dated and obsolete and no one could play it nowadays and experience a positive emotion for even one second
>>739188190Yeah, /v/ will surely be lenient with games then taking even more extra years to come out on top of more obscure crash/compatability issues.
>>739188297HL2 is a 22 year old game with outdated graphics. What retarded point are you even trying to make?
>>739188456>muh """outdated""" graphicsmeanwhile this shit looks better than 90% of games
>>739188560lol lmao
>>739188297It will be when nVidia is done with it.
>>739185134Don't do my boy Paul dirty like this
>>739186839>I have no idea why they keep trying to trot out this retarded talking pointbecause they have an audience that regurgitates whatever shit opinion they spew out. they got BTFO so many times yet still keep retreading the same talking points>>739188203>But then this is DF, not actual gamers.currect take, they're more shills than reviewers since a reviewer should ideally remain somewhat objective
>>739184705>is ray tracing just a meme always has been>that will be abandoned in the future?nope because nudevs are retarded and can't do lights without RT.
>>739185259>audio is stealing my ram nowNIGGER STOP ITI NEED MY RAM
>>739188597cope
>>739188560Any modern AAA game would get ridiculed if it looked like that
>Its another DF hatethreadgetting the popcorn out for this.
>>739187618>Meanwhile the "RTX" version runs at 20 fps without DLSS and framegen on a 5090.not evn that but HL2 levels were not dynamic in any way, it's all mostly static environment with a few bigger props moving from time to timewhy waste teraflops of cumputing power if the lighting looks the damn same?
>>739184705Reminder this is the guy defending a dogshit tech that doesn't even give you the FUNDAMENTAL lighting features that deferred lighting already solved nearly 20 years ago.
>>739187651
>>739188794For small props you can just fake dynamic shadows. Raytracer heads are high on their own supply. They would rather destroy 90% of the framerate for a +5% visual gain.
>>739188456Games with non-outdated graphics aren't worth it. Graphical fidelity advancing past the best of 2005 was a mistake.
numbers
>>739184705>John linnemanlmaowhat the fuck does this retard know hes not a game dev, even that fagget from threat interactive hired people to thoroughly investigate shader and lighting performance with available tools on the internet, which these digital foundry fagget shills don't ever do.
>>739184705Are raytracing and pathtracing different? Because pathtracing looks amazing
>>739188936nvm i was years off jfc, im used to /s4s/ speed
>>739188785here comes the cope
>>739188885>They would rather destroy 90% of the framerate for a +5% visual gain.I would argue it's a visual loss because you need temporal reconstruction which BLURS the image, just to have a shadow render realistically
>>739188785>Any modern AAA game would get ridiculed if it looked like thatInteresting
>>739188885That does not look good you fag. >>739188957Yes. Simplified and somewhat incorrect, path tracing is more physical correct and way heavier.
>>739185042why do they always turn into a pissy passive aggressive child whenever they are mass opposed on a topic instead of trying to have a reasonable argument like an adult?
>>739185067and another 2gb is the credits
>>739184705not really, proponents claim it limits the graphic processing requirements to the number of pixels on your screen, but in fact it exponentially increases them by the number of light sources in the game as well, and if there's one thing gamers adore, it's all the pretty flashing lightspolygons are here to stay I'm afraid, they're just so much more efficient for any adding machine made of NAND gates to render
>>739189054zoomers don't know how to logically reason, only throw tantrums when told "no"
>>739189040Oh my bad, here's your Good Looking Gameâ„¢ with raytracing, sire
>>739187823good thing /v/ is one person, hold him accountable
>>739185603remember when developers used bump mapping instead of modelling every wrinkle and pore on the object? Those were the days
true words from mr. bespoke
>>739189218Kill yourself faggot. You can't read.
>>739185479>SSD requiredi feel like a caveman walking outside to discover i'm in central park
>>739185276That dude on the right looks homosexual as fuck.
>>739189176John Linneman isn't a zoomer.
>>739189320You can't see shiteyes
>>739185204Explain this then.
>>739189054Probably a high degree of autism.Also probably feels threatened since he has just enough information to talk about this kind of stuff but lacks a bunch of techinal knowledge and working experience with this tech that he is shit at defending it besides the usual talking points we've heard over the last 8 years.
>just enable motion blur
>make hardware raytracing>saarengine5 gives a software rendering option>performance tanks for no gain for both user and dev except it cuts dev time
>>739189305Normal mapping was the last innovation that game engines really needed. Everything else has been worst and cost too much money for minimal returns.
>>739189441truly depraved
>>739189218Looks better than HL. >>739189378Seriously kill yourself. Fucking poor brown fag.
>>739187658You seriously think they weren't paid by nvidia to shill their shit for years?They're STILL doing it, just look at the Forza video.
>>739189408every single asset needs a trillion verts and the game also needs an extra 10 gigs in PBR shaders because otherwise all that mossy stone would look wrong in raytracing. Meanwhile the game is linear, doesn't have a day night cycle, doesn't have shit to justify anything beyond HL2 style baking
>>739189515It's not Nvidia exclusive.
>>739189054People are so used to their bubbles where no disagreement is allowed that when they venture out of it they forget how to handle rejection.The dude's a spaz. People can't even run the fucking technology he's championing. AI, scalpers, crypto and COVID fucked up PC hardware prices forever. Nobody gives a fuck about a technology that only reasonably runs on a $1,800 GPU that can't be found for less than $4000 used.
>>739189320waiting for a screen of good game
>>739184705No, it allows devs to be lazy, it's unfortunately going to have more widespread adoption
>Storage is cheap as shit.>Can get a 10TB drive for like $300>poorfags still whine if a game uses more than 100GB.Nigga, get a job. Buy a new computer.
Cool, now let me turn off the light... yeah thought so.
>>739189338>SSD required>loading times as bad as 15 year old game on an 7200RPM HDD
>>739189589I never promised you a picture. Learn to read.
>>739189624>2026>storage is cheapanon.... did you just wake up from coma?
>>739189575Retard.
What's SOTA for real time raytracing these days? Last time I checked ReSTIR looked pretty promising
>>739189624>hard drivenigga...
>>739189498You're brown BECAUSE you prefer gaytracing slop over HL2 (white coded (literally white hands coded this) game). You are CIRCUMCISED. You can cry about your beloved slop till the cows come home, Valve still mogs your shit from 20 years in the past.
>>739189624Here's your (You).
>>739189734So PS5 has a Nvidia GPU or how is rt possible on it?
>>739187618RTX remix is so horribly optimized that I think it's on purpose, or the system they've made just sucks dicks.Dark Soul 2 is now path traced in the same way but it runs x5 better without using rtx remix.
>>739189624anon 300 was the price i was getting 24tb for before the ram shit and sure a HDD is fine for smaller games anything released by the fags relying on UE5 to do the work for them is going to take forever if it even works.
>>739189774No.
>>739189349and I didn't say it was only zoomers, eitherpretty much it's how all liberals have done things since Robespierre's French Revolution, which is why everything they take over turns into a reign of terror so horrible the survivors tried to return to monarchy FOUR FUCKING TIMES just to make the horror stop
>>739189710>>739189767>>739189782If you're not playing the game, why does it need to sit on fast expensive storage?
No one has ever been able to make a sound argument for why a videogame needs "better graphics" than what could be achieved on a PS2.
>>739189978I like how it looks, so it's more fun for me.
It's not a meme. It's better and it's easier to implement than custom lighting for every part of the game.The problem is that it was pushed too early because jewvidia couldn't find another reason to push tensor cores or make better cards the traditional way. In the future it'll be as naturally a part of GPUs and games as 3D is now.
>>739189978https://youtu.be/8Jn9Bx1pQucAnother nail in the coffin for graphicsfags. Literal PS2 game vs modern forzaslop
>>739184705Okay but how does it improve the gameplay?
>>739189916>10TB $380Wait WHAT? I got WD 24TB for $400 or something just two years ago.
he big sad
>>739189582>Nobody gives a fuck about a technology that only reasonably runs on a $1,800 GPU that can't be found for less than $4000 used.To top it off, what games even really benefit from the GPUs? I think anyone who's played games from a long enough timeline can see that, to put it lightly, there has been a decline that can't be explained with graphics, microtransaction, or even wokeshit. The stats came out that an insane amount of Steam users barely play any recent releases. Personally, I haven't felt satisfied with a new game since Metroid Dread. I'm currently on a retro-only sabbatical.People used to be aware of this like when Deus Ex: Invisible War came out or Bioware transitioned from making games like Baldur's Gate to games like Mass Effect. Now every new game that gets celebrated is also quickly forgotten after a month to a year. Coincidentally this is in an era where social media botting is rampant, so manufactured consensus is the norm, and hardware is more costly than in much of the 2010s, so the consumer's sunk cost is affecting their judgement.Because admitting that new games requiring that RTX card aren't as good as PS2 era games or earlier means facing the fact you got swindled for a premium and an inflated one at that if you're in the 2020s.
>>739190181Why does the Forza track seem so much shorter? They have to pause the playback multiple times for the GT side to catch up, while they only pause the GT side for Forza to catch up like once.
>>739190298AI is enshittifying everything at the moment. Not even HDDs are safe.
>>739189916I own a NAS for storage. It takes ages to write on a HDD and secondly you can't just freely swap huge amount of data on a SSD without shortening its lifespan.
>>739190308Then he should get off of twitter and all social media in generalshit isn't good for anyone's health
>>739190361It's missing at least half the track GT has
Rt was tough before 40xx, 50xx 1000€ gpusNow we can expect even some Path tracing modes prop up in next gen consolesthen only ones crying about it will be pc users I suppose
>>739190361Forza car is faster, probably upgraded in the game, probably a facet of arcade gameplay, gt4 is using more realistic power and speed values closer to irl
The only purpose ray tracing has is to sell nvidia cards.It's not a "leap forward" for anything except nvidia stock price
>>739189978I think lighting hasn't impressively improved since Doom 3 or facial animation since Half-Life 2. It's really a case of that image comparing 1997 vs 2007 vs 2017. I can't find it atm but it's fucking evergreen.
>>739190308How embarrasing.
>>739185042>Games are running better than the last two generations.Maybe thats true when you enable fake frames ans fake resolution.
>>739190308How hard is to just admit you're wrong.
>>739190485The fact we are already in the early stages of path tracing is kinda nuts to me.Like it makes sense as it's the better raytracing algorithm but man we still have issues with current raytracing implementations that we should work on before pathtracing.
>>739190627Pt is simpler version since you rely less on raster hacks and can move most of the lighting under one holistic system.Raster lighting requires manual labor to make work, pt much less, you just place light source on the level and it shoots rays that bounce and theres your lighting.
>>739190072An upscaled PS2 game has 1 million times better image clarity than a modern raytraced / DLSS / whatever game, while running 1 million times better, with lighting rendering good enough to create beautiful scenes and environments, and good enough models for either stylized or realistic characters, capable of emoting and whatever else you need.You genuinely gain nothing by bloating the "fidelity" of the visuals, specially when it comes with so many drawbacks to the image quality and performance that you might as well put your screen underwater facing a strobe light. When a modern game is hidden behind layers of post-processing, fake resolution and fake frames, I can confidently say that it looks far worse than a PS2 game.
>>739190389So developers should spend more time on their games because you're too lazy to transfer it to the right drive?
>>739185042>>739189054If you want to understand how John thinks you simply needs to imagine. His hobby is tech. He loves it. It is like crack for him when they announce something new. That is also why the DLSS5 worship video went out, I know he was not in it but he is the same with slightly different preferences. John also earn a disgusting amount of money.Now imagine you are this guy who can afford anything and wants tech to get pushed further and further because he is chasing the highs of his youth when there were leaps every year. But tech is stagnating because tech companies got lazy and poorfags are always whining they can't afford shit. He must be furious every day when something gets delayed and he has to put up an "its tricky" sad face while he is terrified he will die before the industry actually achieves something meaningful.He rather takes anything just to feel something is moving ahead.
>>739190519In many ways things have regressed, especially animations. I remember playing Rift Apart and thinking the PS2 Ratchet games had more expressive, natural, and more fluid feeling animations.
>>739185042Lol that feature some of the latest tech are running the worst they ever have. Ofc he thinks the opposite bro has a 5090 and always has had the top tier of card.
>>739190883John got addicted to the wrong drug and is chasing a high he'll never get. Lighting and texture fidelity have peaked. He needs to invest in voxel destruction or fluid physics or something. Digital molecular matter etc. All those promising directx physics demos of the past and such that went nowhere.
>>739190519I'd say a fair number of area's have improved visually but I think the number of people who really care are small.Like yeah it's "better" but most people don't spend a lot of time admiring individual parts or pixel hunting shit that they might care about for 2 seconds.
>>739191076>Lighting and texture fidelity have peakedTextures for sure, lighting has area's it can improve but most people care more about something looking "correct" rather then being physically correct.> He needs to invest in voxel destruction or fluid physics or something.Now this is the shit that should be worked on and people would actually enjoy
>>739190935>more expressiveI mean just look at the Sony mascots over time. People focus on how many of them a women but fuck just notice how many of them are simply human at all compared to PS1 and PS2 characters. Obviously, the advancing graphical fidelity has allowed for more intricate and more subtle facial animations, and thus human characters instead of cartoons or anthropomorphic animals, but this has only led to the cinematic presentation of games poorly imitating film, and live action film at that. What a sad indictment it is that modern video game cinematics since the 7th generation, despite literally being animated movies, are less expressive than actual animated movies.
>>739187263>muh heckerino godraysHere's RDR2 with the same shit also it has MSAA. Cope gaytracing redditor.
>>739189978You're not supposed to point that out, chud.
>>739190935>>739191406And with less imaginative designs.
>>739189978and they keep accidentally making arguments why they don't>but I WANT my girl protagonists to look like the lovechild of Shrek and Nicocado!
>>739190485consoles are literally the only thing holding technology back
>>739191406Non-humans + unrealistic is inherently seen as lesser.
>>739184705>Do nothing>Some literally who says I winToday is a good day.
>>739184705No. Its great high end tech that is too advanced for most current hardware. Hardware has to catch up. All the whining about it is from people who try to run it on systems that cant handle it
The AAA industry has relied on NVIDIA to drag their asses forward for 10 years, and now that NVIDIA has found another golden goose to leech off of instead, they have FUCKING NOTHING.
>>739189916nigga that's an HDD not an SSDare you retarded
Raytracing is like voice acting for me, great if you get it work properly but I dont give a fuck if it's not there. Give me baked lighting/dialogue boxes all day instead of wasting resources on making shit shiny
>>739191602We are cursed to walk this planet with a majority of tasteless retards.
>>739191602>i lack confidence and need validationhe will never be an artist
>>739191708>Games should go back to using old graphics.>Me? Go back to using perfectly acceptable but older forms of hardware? No fucking way.
>>739190865Whatever you say. Enjoy AAA gaming on your 10TB HDD.
>>739189978 PS3 was the perfect stopping point. Its enough horsepower to make any game genre a reality but not so far gone that games take 10 years to develop because they need to individually model the nosehairs on women.
>>739191562Most people cant do it at good fps on pcYou need close to parity with raster and path tracing perf which needs relatively massive die area for rt cores.
>>739191873Just move it to the SSD when you need it???SSDs are still 1TB for a cheap one. You need 7 installs of Indiana Jones at one time or something?
>>739191904based ps3 enjoyer with the correct opinion
>>739191469looks dated
>>739190865>So developers should spend more time on their gamesYes.
>>739192070contrarian for the sake of being contrarian
>>739186312They just didn't light dynamic objects or have them affect world lighting. Dynamic objects got a simple global lighting value and that was it. It worked because the baked lighting was simple and not true to life, so one more weirdly lit thing didn't stand out much.It looks quite odd with modern graphics though. In fact objects without baked lighting in a baked shadow is a favourite cherrypicked criticism in new game BAD! threads here.
>>739185479base game is 70gb and it's 40gb to install the optional HD texture pack.
>>739189176>>739189914
>>739192235It's a fact
>>739188560Doom 3 stencil shadows still rapes modern rtx faggotry hard, fuck creative labs.
>>739189916>10TB for $320grim grim grim grim grim
>>739192528this is medium settings on a ps4 or some shit.
>>739189559fuck sony and epic for forcing this garbage up everyone's throats
>>739192528You wanna see dated? Here's your UE5 with Goytracing that brings 5090s to its knees. ENJOY BRO!
>>739192767>>739192528Still the best looking open world game. Go ahead and your Crimson Desert where everything is super bright.
>>739184705Real time ray tracing is dead, nV already abandoned it for neural rendering.
>>739185276more like Top Gullet, am I right?
>>739192814I still can't believe goycattle paid 50 dollars for this and it doesn't even have real mods
>>739192767That's ultra. There's a reason people who glaze RDR2 always post the same few panoramas the game offers
>>739191684Reminds me, in fact, i am having flashbacks of 3dfx before its downfall, but is njudea.
>>739186185>>739184973Dunno which shill told you that, but shadows can be precomputed at runtime. No need to bog down the framerate by doing that every frame
>>739193137Your trees look like shit. That's not how they looked in my game
>>739193095They bought it and then barely played it.
>>739189914>ZOOMER ZOOMER ZOOMER>He isn't a zoomer>UHHHHHH I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS ONLY ZOOMERSRent. Free.
>>739184705The guy replying is right. Baked lighting only works for static objects. Must suck for him to have a crumb of 3D knowledge in a world full of grugbrains that just go "RAY TRACE BAD BAKE LIGHTING GOOD"
Shartrannies are really desperate to shill gaytracing out of le heckin contrarianism.Meanwhile xher shitty imageboard is as dead as /qa/
>but it is expensiveso what?tech has not yet come to a deadend, you can just wait for shit to get more powerful and then enjoy itray- and pathtracing is just a tech that allows for accurate illumination even if the world might be procgen or too large to be handcrafted accurately
>>739192767>>739192902hell yeah
>>739193472grok make the man's face more cartoonishly disgusted
>>739193420His argument is pointless because in modern games nothing fucking moves, there are no physics, nothing
>>739193240>>739192518in your head, not minewhich is why you're throwing a multipost tantrum right now
>>739193576Seems more like a modern games problem than a problem with the tech.If developers don't make games that justify the tech, then they should either stop using the tech, or start developing games that exploit the strengths of said tech.
>>739193621You're the one who brought them up in the first place.
>>739192902just go see by yourself nigga>>739192902if you're asking
>>739193721meant for >>739193198
>>739193721>>739193797No because I just uninstalled rdr2 to play forza 6 and I'm not reinstalling it to prove you wrong, I was at that area in the game and it doesn't look like that, my trees were denser and I had more rock tesselation on the ground
>>739193305Just like UE5 is just a tool but we see the kind of shit it produces, you can jump up and down screaming that it's the devs fucking up and not the engine but all those grugbrains see that shit with their own eyes while you are spouting fantasies
Big animated movies use ray tracing, it is the future, computers just aren't good enough yet for real time rt
>>739187263base SotFS looks better than that Nintendo Hire This Man mod
>>739193927UE5 is one engine of countless that all do some things better or worse.The only way you could compare it is if there were different methods of ray traced lighting peddled or personally developed by 10+ different companies and we were arguing over the one that did it the best.
just stopping light bleed is enoughthat makes a huge differenceshadows should be dark!
>>739193927It's also that Lumen isn't intended as a full on replacement for hardware raytracing, it's intended to be a bridge to support non-RT without having to make the developer go through and make two separate baked and real-time versions of their scene. As RT has got more advanced, it's been stretched to the point of running like shit, but people still throw non-RT cards at it and wonder why it runs badly.
>>739193721>muted colors>overwhelming brightness in some spots>shadow spam because quantity > qualityHere's another example what good art direction and baked lighting can do to modern games
>>739194065>Grug sees new dev yelling about fancy lighting>Grug sees ps3 era graphics while only getting 30 fps>Grug rejects fancy lightingSimple
>>739193989Yeah but that would require people to actually learn about something instead of crying on social media.Honestly it's impressive we can even do it in realtime without computers fucking exploding even if it's a lower quality.
>>73918726312 year old open world game you can run on a toaster faggot. have fun with your 20 fps quadrupled to 80 with frame gen.
>>739194290>Cryengine>Baked lighting
>>739193989Yeah, RT is adopted and pushed way too early. It's now "the gimmick" for people with more money than sense and stupid expensive computers.RT (or whatever form the same concept will take) will probably be baseline for a lot of games in the future, but that day isn't now.
>>739194415>Kingdom Come: Deliverance II relies heavily on pre-baked lighting and voxel-based global illumination (SVOGI) instead of hardware ray tracing. This design choice ensures the game runs smoothly and looks remarkably atmospheric, but it can lead to static shadows, occasional pop-in, or visual shimmering in specific environments.Dilate
>>739193713I answered a question, and here you are proving yourself completely incapable of logic tooif you still wonder why all your arguments sound like pissy passive aggressive children, it's because you are the pissy passive aggressive child having them, simple as
>>739194390Looks awful.
>>739187263my favorite meme is when nvidia slaves smuggly post with some attached images that do not look impressive at all.
>>739194690They look better on OLED, which you also don't have.
>>739194586I'm not passive aggressive at all though. I diagnose you with retarded nigger disease. The cure is killing yourself.
>>739184705I straight on don't give a shit if it exists or not. And it's supposed to be some selling point to make me pay $5,000 for a dumb video card. this industry is honestly dumber than dogshit.
>>739184705I think texture resolution and polygon count had a much more noticeable difference in graphic quality, lighting was never a big graphical issue that needed improving
>>739194749I have an OLED TV I dont use much.Another meme.
>>739194581SVOGI is a real time GI solutionIn Cryengine the only part that get's "baked" is scene voxilization which is used for lighting.Crytek dumped static lighting after Cryengine 1 and have focused on real time lighting starting with Crysis.
>>739194749NTA but I have an OLED and it still doesn't look impressive.
>>739194860>some HDR400 piece of shitI laugh.
>>7391948911,000 nits peak brightness, actually.
>>739194795lmaohere, have one more (You) for being so hilariously self-unaware
>>739189176>don't know how to logically reason, only throw tantrums when told "no"Sounds like the average /v/edditor i've been seeing post here for the last 10+ years
>>739184705Lumen is pure dogshit. Just look at NTE Lumen and Path tracing comparisons.
>>739194949Explain how I'm passive aggressive. Because I'm not.
>>739190361The GT one might be a 1:1 real life reconstruction, the Forza one obviously won't be that since then the whole city would have to be larger.
>>739184705I agree with John Linneman whoever the fuck that is. You can't compare static scenes. They can and will be nearly identical because you can ray trace the light and bake the output into the scene. Ray tracing is for moving objects, which the vast majority of games have. Show a video of objects moving around in the scene and see how the light interacts with them.
>>739194993again, if you're the only one it's happening to, maybe it's a (You) thing, not an everybody else thing
>>739184705It's cool that it allows the game to be dynamic. For example a game like Satisfactory (UE5 example) which lets you make your own fully custom buildings would benefit greatly from fully dynamic lighting since you could have good lighting inside the stuff you built, it's impossible to pre-bake lighting for player-made modifications to the environment.Of course in reality Satisfactory only supports software Lumen I believe and it looks incredibly blurry, grainy and outright incorrect many times, especially in low-light environments. Lumen is pretty fucking dogshit, I've seen much better hardware RT implementations in other games and those still have clear flaws. Still in theory proper, dynamic lighting is nice in terms of the gameplay opportunities dynamic environments can unlock, but in practice games are very static anyway so this doesn't matter much.I don't think RT will go away though, it's in current-gen consoles and next-gen consoles which are currently being made will certainly use something with even better RT capability. I don't see NVIDIA giving up their RT shit either, so if performance improves it's going to stick around.
>>739189914retard
>>739195282>made with mematic So yes i am the only non manchild on this site, glad I finally found substantial evidence for that
>>739194290literally just spewing random shit to criticize the game for the sake of ithere's the HDR screenshot if you want to see what the game actually looks like. Even though you’re probably viewing this on a 1080p 24" TN monitor anywayhttps://files.catbox.moe/kos2mn.jxr
>>739189978especially resolution is the greatest scam.
>>739184705>is raytracing a memeno it's a fundamental part of computer graphics, if you meant shitty implementations where we try to do full path tracing every frame and end up with games where it only works on a 5090 then yes its a meme>>739185134ray tracing does not make games gigantic, millions of 4k uncompressed textures do>>739186839there are techniques to approximate global illumination and support dynamic lighting too. It's not RTX or baked lighting with nothing inbetween. People push DLSS + RTX because they have a financial interest in it and it looks good. >>739187673there is baked global illumination in this image moron>>739194808global illumination is the holy grail of computer graphics, once again mirrors edge precalculated global illumination and then did O(1) lookups on it to achieve cheap global illumination but with static lighting.these threads make me so mad as a computer graphics dev. It's always filled with dumbasses making incorrect or oversimplified claims about computer graphics. Yes people are taking shortcuts with rtx garbage, no it's not useless and there isn't some panacea technique that everyone is too stupid to not use instead.
>>739191562man kill yourself already with that dogshit phrase.where has your epic technology obsession taken you?
>>739191904I would add like 4 gigs of ram, and 1tb SSD for convenience, but besides that I agree
>>739193305worked just fine for literal decades.
I fucking hate poorfags so much. They just play walking simulators so of course they don't understand how DYNAMIC lighting works.
>forward rendering>baked-in lighting>MSAA X16Yep, it's gaming time.
>>739195763nobody cares, faggot.
>>739184705>John "Bespoke Shitpatch" LinnemanI'm supposed to care what Mr. "Lock it at 59 if it drops one frame" Digital Foundary is supposed to say?
people who don't care about graphics and can't afford good graphics cards sure do have lots to say about video game rendering techniques
>>739184973Half the bloat is uncompressed audio and other shit that most players won't turn on (alternative languages). The fact Steam hasn't set alternate languages as optional downloads is crazy.
>>739196340>uncompressed audiolol no it isn't.
>>739185042Anything that runs UE5 at this point is "runs like shit" until proven otherwise for me.I think the only game that hasn't ran like complete dogshit is Tekken 8 and even THAT has it's issues if you aren't using a Solid State drive for a FUCKING FIGHTING GAME.
>>739184705>DF>acting retardedMany such cases
>>739196178>DirectX 9? Excellent!
>>739196225>I don't know what I'm talking about but I will spew my opinion loudly insteadvideo games are wasted on gamers.
>>739196370LOL yes, it is.Sony ports are notorious for this where you have 100GB of uncompressed audio for Japanese and other languages most people aren't going to touch.Even JRPG's now a days are bad at this because weebs want the Nip and nobody else cares and uses the English dub.
>>739195763>no it's a fundamental part of computer graphics, if you meant shitty implementations where we try to do full path tracing every frame and end up with games where it only works on a 5090 then yes its a memeSo you agree... memeTX is a meme?
>>739196171Figures the soulless consoomer would think this shit looks good lol
>>739194390looks like plasticand objects are basically floating off the ground from the lack of shading
>>739185042>games are running better than the last two generations>despite having a 400% increased computational cost
>>739196582Get off 4chan and get a job you smelly brownoid.
>>739196604Looks better than every rayslopped game actually
>>739189343How would you know?
>>739196683Good little goy
>>739196572my point was that raytracing is something that has existed in computer graphics since the 80s. It's like saying linear algebra is a meme. It's too expensive to do in real time unless your GPU is very expensive, you have to cheat and approximate things a lot to get usable framerates and visual quality. So I agree RTX is a meme, raytracing is not.
>>739189916do you think this is a cheep hard drive, retard?
>>739196505I know everything I need to know to call you a faggot who makes everything worse.Leap off a cliff.
>>739196505idk anon I didn't see any global illumination in God Hand and that's a better game than any with ray tracing I've ever seen
>>739190308>sadisn't he married, how the fuck is that possible?
>>739189441>Enable motion blur!>What do you mean Tokyo still drops frames!? MY BESPOKE PORTABLE!Like, I like the Deck but holy shit.
>>739196510>LOL yes, it is. 100gb of audio for japlol shut up . You're wrong. Game audio is mono. 100gb is like 300+ hours of uncompressed .wav you retard
>modern nu-dev no-skill dei-hires h1b-plants cant even match their studio's previous game's graphicswe are truly doomed
>>739184705>is ray tracing just a memeNoRace tracing is an algorithm used to solve the render equation.It's a computational tool used to simulate on a computer how light works in the real world.Now it may not be the best thing for computer games from a aesthetic or performance standpoint; but in terms of computer graphics its extremely important.
>>739197025I'd never play something on the deck that came out after 2013.
>>739196859You will also never see something like godhand again, because the tech arms race made game making so expensive that a risky passion project on that scale is not possible anymore.The industry is so fucked because of it.
>>739194290>baked lightingHow fucking stupid are you?
>>7391972492013 is a weird cut off point
>>739197268Maybe we'll get smaller (aka not AAA) projects similar to E33.
>>739195690
>>739197132Why does the yellow framed screenshot show a random out of bounds area compared to the other screenshots ?
>>739197371That's when the 8th gen started.
>>739197385E33 was already vastly more expensive than something like Godhand.
I'm playing Pragmata and the RT fizzling is so fucking bad, even screenspace reflection artifacting looks better.I don't understand how they fucked it up. Cyberpunk did it better half a decade ago.
>>739197421plenty of good games released since then that run well on deck
>>739197416Feel free to provide better shots that aren't closeups with raster point lights and heavy depth of field That view is unmissable fyi.
>>739189060using a video file instead of just rendering scrolling text is crazy, are there at least animations and shit during the credits?
>>739184973You were saying, shilltranny?
>>739197615And how many of those are actually good?
>>739197765plenty if you aren't a contrarian retard like (You)
>>739195763Hi John.Btw, what do you think about Unreal 5.8? They are promoting as a way to finally make games on the Switch 2 with proper framerate.
>>739185042>games are running way better than the last two generations
>>739197695lolno
>>739197808I think unreal engine sucks, my post wasn't a defense of rtx slop. Switch 2 is too weak for people to be using general purpose engines you have to work to squeeze the performance out of it.>>739197953this is so stupid. This could have been like 100kb with a textfile and simple shader.
>>739197953that credit length makes me want to throw up.the best games ever were made by like twenty guys in an office.
>>739184705Raytracing should be implemented in the development process, not in real time in the final product.
>>739185134His brain deflated SAD
>>739196171Cool blurry floor, feels like 240p. Also we had dynamic lights stupid jeet.
>>739197926He's not wrong there, you needed bleeding edge hardware to get 60FPS or more including monitors that supported it, but that was more due to limitations. Current games somehow just run worse on average even when they look like they would've been released 10 years ago.
>>739185276It's crazy how these guys obsess over computer graphics and yet none of them have computer graphics backgrounds.
>>739190308He just like me for real
>>739198147why would they need those?they are marketers.
>>739198097>Grey box like 3 objects in it.>Smudge low resolution shadow.>Single object relfection.Wow, if only we could scale this technology up somehow.
>>739197620Looks like you're also putting the graphics settings on low for your comparison. Real poorfaggot behaviour right there
>>739198097Look at what devs have to do to mimic 1% of raytracings power... and they don't even do it well...
raytracing works by projecting millions of simulated light paths through a recursive shading matrix, allowing the renderer to calculate how photons would theoretically bounce between reflective and refractive surfaces in a virtual environment. The system continuously resolves illumination data through spatial sampling and material interpolation, producing highly accurate shadows, reflections, and ambient light diffusion across the scene.
>>739198097>dynamic lightsYou do know the difference between dynamic lights and dynamic GI right?
>>739198204>Smudge low resolution shadowBut if the box says RTX ON on that smudge low res shadow, you'll think it's a good thing and call anyone poor for badmouthing it. Picrel. Now dilate.
>>739197926I think he meant on cucksoles, which is true. After all PC has no generations.
>>739196171>Blurry, with glitches and ghosting in motion + shitty ass framerate and frametimesGimme something that isn't a mess in motion.It looks okay in screenshots. But implementing it in every fucking game for the sake of just doing it is fucking stupid. Games like Forza or GT (or any racing game in general) don't need RT at all because it's a useless feature on a racing game. Literally more disadvantages than advantages.Fucking hell, I even saw old as fuck games like Doom and Duke Nukem 3d with forced raytracing just for the sake of adding it. Literally zero gains.Literally pic related all over again. Only a few children and inmature idiots like it to be implemented on everything.
>>739198439>the 20 year old game looks worse than the 6 year old game
>>739191469>Cope gaytracing redditor.>posts a redditcore game with heckin godraysEmbarassing.
>>739189441Motion blur does help low fps scenarios and can look genuinely good at high fps in rare cases (doom eternal)
>>739198316>if i blur the screen with postprocessing and DLSS it will somehow look bettersneed
>>739198316Still looks worse>>739198576The 20 years old game is using a RTX rendering created a few years ago. It's newer than the Source 2 rendering.Keep coping, faggot.
>>739198316lmao caught his ass. poorfaggots are so pathetic they resort to lying.
>>739197796Oof, sad answer. So how many of those play at 90fps on the deck at good settings without upscaling?
>>739198752>The 20 years old game is using a RTX renderingThe 20 year old game is using a modded in lighting done by a modders. Not a sold version of the game created by Valve.
>>739198697I dunno why, but despise using the same engine, I think that Doom 2016 have better graphics heck, I even prefer how Wolf TNO looks over TNC
>>739198868>Not a sold version of the game created by Valve.It is backed up by Nvidia and their engineers. It's a project funded literally by them.
>>739198697here you can add this one, fag
>>739198906are you a fish? why the fov set to 200 degrees?
>>739189338first time this happened to me was starfield, and it was a joke it required a SSD, it was just un-optomized slop,
>>739184705Digital Foundry hasn't been relevant since they started jerking off dlss5 to please Leather Jacket-sama.
>>739198967it's a mod. it's not even the full game. it's a small part of a level.
>>739187202i actually love how lumen does reflections in software mode, it's very old school with new school techniques. they take all the meshes on screen, and use screenspace reflections until the mesh is off screen, then they use these "voxel blobs" that represent the objects in a lower mesh density. it's a great trick.
>>739198861>he's such a simpleton he only plays AAA goyslopI figured as muchreply to confirm you are mentally retarded
>>739198968>RT>Strong as fuck light source from the candlesAt this point why even bother implementing "realistic lighting" if you're going to do that dumb ass shit.
>>739199056It is not a small part of a level. Is a whole level. And they want to implement it to the rest of the game.Just like they did with Portal 1 and Quake 2 RTX. It's a project backed up by Nvidia and Moddb.
>>739189343Congrats, your gaydar is working.
>>739189060>>739197695>>739197953Kek.I didn't even knew they would do this stupid shit. Besides 4k textures, what else could be cut back to reduce game size?
>>739187263>adds pathtracing>not a single material is set up for it>messages don't glowutter dogshit.
>30 years old engine with an update made 15 years ago can do a whole building reflecting the rest of the map yet a modern game with RTX can't even make a very small mirror without shitting itself while looking blurry as fucklmaojoke technology
>>739199124No, it isn't a full level at all. It's a mod created by RTX Remix tools. You've never even played it
>>739185067This really is fucking stupid, holy shit. Why would I want to download any other audio than english, and my native language (and the studio's native language if it was their ideal soundtrack).>>739189060>>739197953>2gb just for some simple tex at full HDThey really are fucking useless. I remember having these in a prerendered video with proper compression because you don't need much in that crap.
>>739198906>I think that Doom 2016 have better graphics heck, I even prefer how Wolf TNO looks over TNCIt's called art direction anon. These gaytracing retards have no idea what it is. They think photorealism is art kek. They will never know. Absolute subhuman brainrot jeets worshipping overused reflections and GI. SAR KASHMIR BELONGS TO PAKISTAN.
>>739199060Oh damn, what dev made that game you mentioned?
>>739199136Repeated and redundant stuff that they didn't bothered to clean up. Kinda like what happened to Helldivers 2. There's also proper compressed files. No need to install everything uncompressed.
>>739199569>You can't do an art with raytracingIdiocy.
>>739187263We had this since the beginning of time You dished out 1000$ for something like Division 2 that could run on a happy meal toy.
>>739190298I bought a 512gb mSD card a few years back for like 60 bucks, nowadays the exact same listing is 200
>>739199334Your not wrong but your comparing one of the most based games from one of the most based times to now. You are going to be upset.
>>739189782i bought that fucking western digital black for fucking 120 canadian pesos last year holy fuck.
if you have never rendered the sponza scene yourself sit down and close your mouth hole, real cg gods are speaking
All modern games look like astigmatism simulators to me. I miss the old games where everything looked clear and in focus.
>>739199782nvm, i'm fake and gay. that's 8tb.
>>739192060>just needlessly hasten the death of your SSD by constantly writing to ithow old are you, genuinely
>>739184705For better or worse, ray tracing is only going to become more and more common as hardware improves.If hardware shortages continue to worsen we may see a temporary shift back to rasterization though.
>can you tell the difference?!?!?!>both images are 110x110 thumbnailsBAN twitter screencap threads
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU NEED THE LATEST 3K 5090 WITH DLSS AND FRAME GEN TO GET PICTURE QUALITY LIKE THIS>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>739194390It ran like dogshit back then with lots of glitches but by the next gen GPU it was running perfectly, while today's RTX game still run like crap with lots of artifacts.
>>739185603>2006>games struggle to hit 60fps>2026>games struggle to hit 60fpsGames will struggle to hit 60fps for the rest of time because Nvidia will keep coming up with bullshit meme tech that exists for no other purpose than letting them keep selling graphics cards.
>>739184805That doesn't negate his argument because the base size would be the same in both examples.
>>739199885>If hardware shortages continue to worsen we may see a temporary shift back to rasterization though.They'll never shift back to raster. The point of raytracing is to cut down dev time. The point of UE5 is to automate games and cut down on skilled white man devs. They market it as >its better>its more realistic>muh heckerino real time lighting It's all bullshit. It's about minimum viable product. What's the last game you played that had limb damage? Last COD cost something like 500 million to make. Where did all that money go?
>>739200090your games aren't hitting 60fps because your PC is shit
>>739199721Love me some janky light bleeding through models. Path Tracing could never
>>739199569If graphical glitches like these were in games back then, everyone would complain and devs would even try to fix this shit.
>>739200173Games aren't hitting 60fps because Nvidia and Epic memed the entire industry into thinking fake frames and raytracing are in any way good or desirable.
>>739199721>>739200184is this game any good?
>>739200185What's going on here? Looks like PSX texture warping.
>>739200231What GPU do you have which is struggling to hit 60fps in modern games?
>>739184705I was thinking about upgrading from my 3070 but i don't see why i shouldn't go for the 9070 instead of the 5070. Is using DLSS that much of an improvement? Am i really losing that much shit because of it?
>>739184705Reminds me of when poorfags way back in the day claimed that anti-aliasing is a meme technology, because they couldn't afford the hardware.
>>739200151>skilled white man devsbaking lighting isn't a skill, retard
>>739200295>just buy more FPS from Mr. JensenNo. The solution to this isn't to keep buying more hardware, the solution is for the industry to stop adding complexity for complexity's sake. Advances in tech are no longer translating into better visuals.
>>739200283the Brazilian is running ray tracing on a RTX2060 and wondering why it looks like shit
>>739200184>1000$ more to still have light leakage.
>>739200364A lot of devs use DLSS as a crutch, it's not worth buying their shit games in the first place but still.
>>739200460>my pc is shit I know. That's why I said it. Why you have to pretend it's anything else is just sad/funny/retarded
The biggest problem with ray tracing is that the processing required increases exponentially depending on the lighting conditions.In an outdoor scene lit by the sun, you can get decent results almost instantly, but as soon as you enter a shaded area, things quickly spiral out of control and the result is pure visual garbage.
>>739200151Why the fuck are you using MGS2 as an example?>tiny levels>literal pac-man gameplay>braindead enemies>short as fuck when you deduct the cutscenes,>no actual stealth mechanics>flat textures
>>739185603my favorite part is even if they want to use these butt fuckingly huge 3d scans, ue5 literally has a built in lod generator, and i promise 99.99% of normies won't the know the difference between this 180k poly stump. and the 10k one. default settings by the way, i just hit "go to 10k lol".
>>739185042>>739184705he's the kind of guy who would shill ipv6newer =/= better
>>739200502I lost
>>739200431This, it's just the usual process of people crying about technologies they can't afford on their 5 year old laptops.
>>739189338>>739199007>shitpost on /v/ about politics instead of playing videogames>somehow end up blindsided by the decade+ old fact that spinning rust is slower than solid state memory
>>739200502you can use visibility probes to prevent lights from leaking in non path-tracing setups. >>739200575the talos example really hurts, the first game was on the serious sam engine, looked beautiful, and ran on toasters.
>>739200184>>739200502>imblying PT is the solution to allit still sucks and it's only going to get worse
>>739199714Retard, we had EIGHT years of raytracing and there's only ONE game that has an actual art direction with raytracing and that's Cyberpunk and that's because it started off with baked lighting. Everything else hyper fixates on photorealism. You don't get anything unique or stylish, you don't get any interpretation of reality, you just something bland that mirrors reality complete with post processing galore, blurriness and anti soul gas.
I have a 3080 and never turned on gaytracing for more 2 minutes at a time. From 100+ to maybe 60 fps but now it's low fps and just plays and looks worse.Nvidia should be sued for misleading advertising considering the 20-series is what was claimed is good enough for RTX but there is not a single game you can play on the 20-series with RTX without going below 60 fps. It would be like if a car company bragged about introducing 4wd but it limited the car to 20km/h in 4wd mode.
>>739197014>how the fuck is that possible?he's married
ray tracing only sucks for people who can't run it
>>739200565You are too low IQ for this conversation.
>>739200676>there's only ONE game that has an actual art directionOh so it's not actually impossible then. I see.
>>739200691>3080it's not a ray tracing gpu.
>>7392004714070ti, jeet
>>739184946>it's a meme that makes devs' jobs a lot easierIf that was true development costs would be going down, yet prices are rising for some reason
>>739200749The fuck does the RTX stand for then.
>>739200661What am I seeing here? Apart from the cars literally floating in the air, which is not caused by path tracing
>>739199830yea. the forced depth of field shit angers me.
>>739200283It's UE5 slop when using Lumen.Happens this shit too if you stay in one place for too long
ah, another rendition of the thread where all the shitskin thirdies gather and shit on the thing they will never get to experience because they can't afford it.
>>739200184>Path Tracing could neverYes it could.
I didn't read the thread but who gives a shit about lighting when it already peaked decades ago? I just played through the original Dead Space recently and the lighting was excellent. Start focusing on tech that makes games fun to play like realistic destruction physics so when can have cool Blast Corps types of games. Thanks for asking and reading.
>>739200907Play?
I wonder what other dumb shit will they come up with after path tracing
>>739200580>>braindead enemiesYou don't find any modern game that comes anywhere near MGS2 or FEAR levels of NPC AI
>>739200964whatever it is, you'll still be here seething and still shitskinned.
>>739200907it didn't peak, your standards just lowered
>>739200730You realize they threw RT into Cyberpunk at the last minute, right retard? It was in development since 2013 and RT didn't get announced until 2018ish around 1-2 years from release.
>>739200857"Me have more shiny rocks than you" is a low IQ third-world argument.
>>739200580Retarded zoomnigger
>>739200661I've seen comparisons in this game between RTX on and off, and deactivating it improves the shading in the maps overall because artists put effort in that>>739200841Actually, it is caused by pathtracing
>>739200185that is them fixing it. they have to lower lumen's ray count to accommodate ancient pcs. my 5080 doesn't get that in ue5 games, because i can increase lumen's bias and ray count. that being said, this would hardly be a problem if wages on planet earth weren't in the toilet, and crypto mining and ai didn't completely butt fuck every aspect of life. buying $1500 gpu shouldn't be the solution to fix ugly lighting.
>>739201039giving poor people access to the internet was a monumental mistake
>>739184705Nope. It looks good.
>>739189343and he's still more straight than you or your replies before mine
>>739200580>MGS2>AIThere's no intelligence to be found there, even given the tiny, short, cramped levels.
>>739200730>RT doesn't kill art direction, see there's ONE game where it looks nice in!
>>739200452Of course it is, tardy
>>739201107Do keyboards in your third-world shithole not ship with shift keys and punctuation keys, or did you just not get to that part of your ESL class?
>>739200857Soulless hylic shiteater
>>739200857that seems to be most of the tech threads on /v/
>>739200790From Nvidia's page itself. That anon is shitposting hard.
>>739200857Post PC specs
>>739184705>muh dynamic objectslike modern games even have those anymoreyou're lucky if you can shoot the bottles on the table and they break
>>739200260Yes. Almost forget its a ubisoft game.
>>739200907Tech companies think of video games as commercials for their engines/hardware. They just want to sell a product, there is no thought given to game design.
>>739200972They could've used those AI GPU cores to improve NPC behaviour and interactions...
>>739201071retard
>>739200841The lighting is flat in a lot of places
>>739184705it will never be dropped because it lowers the skill requirement for making graphics by offloading the cost to consumers (more demanding hardware processing).
>>739201349>MGS2>the ice cubes fucking meltTechbros will literally drain the entire grid to power a supercomputer that can simulate ice and water physics down to the atomic level to badly appropriate what a single ensouled Japanese salaryman coded for fun in 2001.
you can literally smell the brown emanating from this thread
>>739200995Literally (you) while asking for a loan and buy a 5090 to run badly optimized games (and RGB gay colors)
>>739194808I like how anti-RT fags cope by posting mirror's edge, as if low res, nearly monochromatic solid color textures look like "good lighting".
>>739201561better than being non existent
>>739201501sure thing, buddy
>>739201756wrong pic
>>739201712Looks objectively better than any soulless rayslopped dogshit, yes
>>739201756That fucking sucks
>>739201610>2000>hmm, when ice cubes are away from each other, they get hotter, quicker, thus melting>i'll simply make the ice cubes check distance from each other every 1 second to save cpu time, then have them scale down based on how far they are>2026>we've created nano-meltro tech that uses 11 ai cores, dlss, and nanite on ue5 to make ice cubes melt like in real life!>doesn't actually work half the time>naturally uses 2gbs of vram and doesn't ever flush memorythat'll be $99.99 plus tax, plus tip, plus tariff, plus fuck you.
pay up goyim
>>739201884nah they wouldn't bother in current year, they'll just make another formulaic open world slop game with a gigantic map with fuckall to do in it except clear generic enemy camps and solve the same puzzle 200 times and call it a day
>>739189060>>739197953>Hey Lilith Sparkledog, Jim from QC noticed you misspelled Shadbing Sahur's name in the credits, could you fix that real quick?>Sure boss, just let me render the credits again, I'll have it to you in an hour
>>739201701at least try to make your sentences not sound like they were written by an ESL brownoid next time.Don't worry man, maybe the day will come for you too when you'll get to experience cutting edge technology and not be a bitter, poor parasite.
vulkan and dx12 were a fucking mistake because so few game developers know how to do things like Asynchronous Compute.
>>739197268>but muh shitty brawler game nobody cared about until eceleb mcfaggot made a review calling it cool>>739200676>disingenuous bullshit
Ray Tracing is the future, but it shouldn't have been the present. The tech isn't there yet.Plus, while baked lighting does increase dev time and filesizes, the games from before real time GI was a thing were made much more quickly, looked good enough and were also much higher quality.As a consumer I find it hard to care that it's easier for devs to shit out low quality trash.
>>739187930he's right
I can't comprehend how "people" like to get buttfucked in the ass to buy expensive as fuck PC components. How can they be so financially inept? Paying premium prices for bad quality products AND being happy on how bad the game performs and how minimum the graphics fidelity they gain. And these kind of idiot adults vote, holy shit.No wonder the world is going to shit, with such fucking idiot adults everywhere.No wonder you're poor as fuck.Your granparents wouldn't spend this much money every year being a stupid manchild.
>>739201349lolIt's just that ray tracing adds new issues with the shadows of moving objects. Just look at how problematic it is with something as simple as a door opening, lol.Before, the problem was that the shadows of moving objects didn't have the same quality as those of static objects. Now it's exactly the same thing, but the problem manifests itself in a different way.
>>739202071>gigantic map with fuckall to do in it except clear generic enemy camps and solve the same puzzle 200 times and call it a dayi just want a large, handcrafted map, with enemy camps, the one single area you're allowed to craft a base near the center of the map, with other small bases being used as fast travel points you can travel to via large canon, and 8 good dungeons, suplemented with 30 ok to good smaller side dungeons, with 3 world bosses, 8 normal bosses, 3 reoccurring field bosses, with only one weapon, the humble sword, having 30 different models, and a main character who doesn't look any different when you change armor, like in old rpgs. i also want it made in exactly one year, if it's not too much trouble.
>>739201884Pretty much.Don't forget inclusion cores. If you don't like it, you're a CIS scum
>>739201826>buzzword soupConcession accepted.
>>739202207the tech is definitely there, it's just that there's a literal horde of poors impeding games from fully realizing it's implementation.
>>739184705>>739185042we threw out perfectly good looking tech for ray/path tracing, which typically looks worse and runs much, much worse despite requiring dedicated hardware and using all kinds of bullshit tech like lumen and dlss/fsr to try make it run better.maybe ray tracing still isn't ready for real time yet. just maybe
>>739201712>post1: lighting isnt that important, texture resolution and polygon count are>your reply: LOL? U THINK MIRRORS EDGE HAD GOOD LIGHTING?You're genuinely retarded. You can't even parse a basic 4chan post. You were probably seething so hard you couldn't think straight, that's why you replied to some shit from 2 hours ago.
>>739202385a gtx 1070 back in the day lasted you a decade. the 5070 is showing age, right now. it came out last year.
>>739199696With Helldivers I think the game was optimized for spinning rust to some degree. On spinning discs (optical or HDD) devs used to include multiple copies of assets such that they could be loaded sequentially, without forcing the reading mechanism to physically seek into a different position. This was done for load time / consistency. So for example if some asset was needed both in level 1 but also in level 5, it might be included multiple times such that both level 1 and level 5 could load that asset along with everything else they need without seeking. I think this might've originated with console optical discs, where the disc was fixed capacity so if you had extra space you might as well use it for something.Obviously on SSDs which have no physical mechanism that needs to seek in order to read from any block on the device, such optimization is useless and it just bloats game size for no reason. It's kind of wild to me that this sort of stuff was still being applied to modern PC games really.
>>739202102>I'll have it to you in an hourMore like in a week. They won't do it fast unless they're near the finish line.
Why do people call RT a tech advancement when games that use it all look worse than Crysis 3?
>>739202385Another self inflicted wound. Maybe if your game is so bloated that you need to sell 5 million to break even you shouldn't be pushing a bunch of crap mainstream hardware, consoles included, can't run.Wanna make something that pushes tech and can break even with only RTX 5070+ owners? Sounds great! We do need more of those.Instead what we get is mediocre looking trash that looks not only mediocre but also blurry as shit if you don't have 5070+ hardware.
>>739202123Keep getting mad. Deep down you know I'm right.You even have to use that stupid internet lingo because you can't even think properly.
>>739202626this isn't an argument against the tech, but against the games (which i fully agree with). Stop shitting on the tech, it's not the problem.
>>739202647you're a bitter, poor spic. Your opinion on tech is worthless my nigga.
>>739202828The tech, ray tracing, isn't the problem, the tech, console hardware is. I'm not saying RT as it's currently implemented isn't good enough, but it's too early to push on consoles as the baseline with half assed raster fallbacks.
>>739202942why are consoles even being considered here?
>>739202828The tech is actively detrimental to video games and does nothing to advance them as a medium. Thief, Doom 3, and Chronicles of Riddick make better use of lighting as a game mechanic than any game that forces RT.
>>739202385No man, that's poor optimization and poor quality control. Or even worse, being paid by GPU manufacturers to release unoptimized software so they can justify their powerful GPUs.Pic related is a generic enemy in Stranger Of Paradise FF in which you have to battle several of them at the same time. So, you'd have them, your allies and the enviroment so of course it's a heavy load on your PC. And modern developers add to this raytracing and pathtracing too, so any modern hardware would run like shit.
>>739203003>Thief, Doom 3, and Chronicles of Riddick make better use of lighting as a game mechanic than any game that forces RT.you're clearly just a nostalgiafaggot stuck in the past and you're so stupid you literally contradicted your own argument in your statement.
>>739202924Keep mad. You know I'm right.>>739203003After all these years and the forced implementation on consoles one would think that dynamic lights and shadows would have become part of the gameplay but that's nonexistant.
ITT>complete and total tracefaggot death
>>739203067Show me a game that uses RT as part of its design the same way Thief uses lighting as part of its design. Show me a game that uses RT that looks better (not just that's more technologically complex, those are not the same thing) than FEAR.
>almost 500 repliesthe girlies really got mad for this one huh
>>739185276So you'd prefer an unstable 60 or unlocked framerate?
>>739203167>Show me a game that uses RT that looks better than FEARL M A O
>>739202984Big games need console sales to break even, so they should be made with those specs in mind. That's why I think the push for RT happened too soon. We could have better base resolutions and framerates with games that look noticeably better if they weren't trying to push a paradigm shift mainstream hardware isn't ready for.
>>739203067Your shilling reeks of shit from bombay streets and curry.
>>739203225John is right thoIf you want 300GB games, be against RayTracing
It's so lazy today. Even static things like terrain aren't mapped for reflections. So you either have to have them in your camera view or they'll just disappear completely from the water as you pan the camera down thanks to screen space shit. Or enable RTX and lose half your FPS.It's just so infuriating. I've been watching Twilight Princess PC videos. There's the entire environment reflected in the water no matter what, back on the Wii, and some games nearly a decade before that.Not even a combo of mapped and screen space like some games did around ten years ago. It's either purely screen space, or purely ray-traced reflections. No in-between. It all comes down to pure laziness, in the end.
Start liking RTX or there will be dire consequences.
>>739203228What game is that?
>>739203394>If you want 300GB games, be against RayTracingmost tech literate brownoid on /v/
>>739203159As modern games continue to disappoint non-stop and cost an arm and a leg just to run, you'll only see more of it as consumers just can't bullshit themselves anymore.
>>739203580>another digitalfoundry dogwhistleI'm so sick and tired of this board. Can you leave them alone?
>>739186312>Moreso than new games actually.It really blows my mind how games have actually gone backwards in many ways over the years.
>>739192902FFXV is better with the update textures
>>739202280That pic is retarded. Luxury brands are so expensive as to price out the poor. The rich don't want to wear goyim clothes, so they are visibly different at a glance from the goyims.
>>739202491>hurr durr>shitty console port always glazed for its shitty lighting is acutally being glazed for its unimpressive polycount and low res textures
>>739187263Saaaaar
>>739200283That's what Lumen looks like. It's probably the "software" version as in it's not actually using hardware accelerated RT. It's slow to update, grainy and low quality and produces brighter and darker blotches like that on a lot of surfaces.UE5 dogshit in other words, it's not the textures.
>>739202280>PC components have risen in value over the past 2 years>can literally sell it for more than I bought it for>somehow this is a bad financial decisionlol stay poor
Lumen outsources the cost of development to the player's hardware. You pay extra money for your hardware so developers can afford spending less time optimizing.
>>739202193kys
>>739202498To be fair the 1000 series is literally one of the best GPU generations ever made while the 5000 cards are abysmal dogshit and among the very worst, only above generations which were literal rebrands of the same parts under different names. The 4000 series cards were a lot better, if you bought one of those on release you're probably still doing alright at this point and an upgrade to a 5000 card of the same tier is unwarranted.
>>7392051234 to 5 makes no sense at all, yeah. i went from the 1060, to the 3060 ti, to the 5080.
>>739202280I am almost 2 thousand dollars richer after buying a 5090 for MSRP last year. What great financial decisions have you made, kiddo?
>>739205123I missed the 1000 series so when prices dropped and the 4000 series came out I bought the 4090 as fast as I could. Every day when I see benchmarks of the 5000 series I'm glad I did. We'll see what gimmicks Nvidia has for the 6000 series.
>>739205254remember when jensen said the 5070 was just as good as the 4090? what a laugh.
>>739185042>run way betterPure cope and delusion.
