>The year of our lord 2020+20+5+1>Still no game inspired by Atlas ShruggedWhy is this?
We did though.
>>739929616Dig Dug
They went to Atlas and asked them to adapt the work into an rpgThey shrugged
>>739929616bioshock
>>739929896Kek
No one reads that shit lol
>>739929896Atlas is a Him you troon
>>739930092*Shrugs
>>739929616Just watch Megalopolis.
But why did Atlas shrug
>>739930263Dunno
>Surely the masses will agree with my idea that only a select few chosen people matter and the rest are retarded cattle and buy my bookWhat was Rand thinking?
>>739929616Bioshock wears its inspiration on its sleeve lolyou literally fight a guy named Atlas who looks like a statue at the end
Probably because it sucks and is terrible.
>>739929616Wasnt Atlas Shrugged about some stupid fucking railroad company struggleYou dont want a game based on that shit.
>>739930384Everyone believes this, they just swap which people fit what role
>>739930392where's his penorwhy isn't he shrugging
>>739929616Let me tell you something. If someone tells you that ayn rand is their favourite, anything by her, they are fucking insane.Her works are the laughing stock of any politics department except for sociopaths who think they would benefit from her systems.
https://youtu.be/_j56IiLqZ9U?si=z3PAmOZCUAZ3WVSr
>>739929616What would the game even be
None of you have read atlas shrugged. You maybe watched a breadtuber bitch about it, but they also did not read atlas shrugged. I have read it
>>739930384She just think it is pretty neat
>>739930608cracks me up every time
>never read atlas shrugged>atlas is the god holding up the earth, right?>so if he shrugged the whole earth would move>it's a novel about an eartquake?
>>739930695I haven't, gimme the QRD.
>>739930583This is what NPCs actually think
>>739930187This movie is so retarded.
>>739930828The whole book is about the govt over regulating the people who get things done, saying "they're resourceful, they'll figure out how to be productive still". This leads to all the top people saying fuck you and moving to not Wakanda and letting the rest of the world go to shit. There's a whole mystery plot where all the top people disappear with the message "who is john galt?". Turns out john galt is the guy organizing not wakanda. I find the premise fine, it's not wrong in it's arguments, the problem is the book is 1000 pages of extremely small text and basically repeats the same arguments 20 times in a row to make sure you really understand what she wanted to say
Bioshock is trying to make fun of ayn rand and thats why the game series is for pseuds
It's crazy the lengths people go to shit on it. Like I think Mein Kampf or whatever doesn't get people nearly as worked up as this.
>>739930092Atlus the company, you retard
say what you want but the first like 200 pages or so are kino, if she stopped the book after the first successful train journey it would be remembered as a modern classic
>>739931138>I think Mein Kampf or whatever doesn't get people nearly as worked up as this.Hitler keeps getting proven right about the juice.
>>739930384Well shit tons of people did in fact buy her book
>>739929616Enthusiastic Objectivist here but what would an AS game even be about and play like?
>>739931138>Like I think Mein Kampf or whatever doesn't get people nearly as worked up as this.There's a reason for that.
>>739931138It is genuinely shit, in the sense that it straddles an awkward line between fantasy softcore porn novel and economic treatise. Her first work, the fountainhead, is happy to just be the proto-50 shades about the ultimate man in modern society and how he is so successful that he cuckolds his best friend while also stealing all of his business contracts and somehow managing to be portrayed as a persevering victim of unfair cruelty by the man whose life he ruins. Atlas attempted to be a half-hearted attempt at a similar narrative as trapping for an actual economic treatise, but the combination of the two elements serves to weaken both.
Anthem is Rand's best work because it's actually a tolerable length and still gives the reader something to think about. The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged land the points they're trying to make but holy fuck they could have been 1/5 the length that they are. The whole 'brevity is the soul of wit' thing is overused, and often not applicable even to lengthy works, but the length of Rand's books does not meaningfully enhance their quality, it detracts from it. The Brothers Karamazov - for example - earns its length and uses all of it, nothing is wasted or retread. She's a good writer, she just needed to be told "reel it in" by somebody.
>>739931138It's actually threatening to socialists and collectivists in general unlike weaker lolbertismMore philosophically intergrated and original.
>>739930529Nobody outright says itSocialists say they would lead the fight in freeing masses from capitalism, Fascists say their nation is the chosen nation and that fascists would fight to liberate their country, Liberatarians and Anarchists say we are just freeing you from government tyranny etc.Nobody except idk, Elon Musk says in your face that you're retarded cattle
>>739930695I read it and its fucking dogshit. Hundreds of pages sucking off her self insert and hammering her childish world-view into your head with no subtlety. Has less literary value than an eroge vn.I have no problem reading things that I disagree with but not when its terribly written.
>>739931353>fantasy softcore porn novelMildly upon mildly upon mildly softcore porn which is to say you are just dishonestly exagerating the matter.
>>739931138>It's crazy the lengths people go to shit on it.It destroyed an entire generation of commie liberals who thought they were the chosen one.
Listening to the central big speech of the novel on youtube inspired me to read the big proper.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxFdA-HHskAbsolutely incredible speech.D'Anconia's and Rearden's are great too.
>>739930392Inspiration implies a certain level of respect. Bioshock maliciously builds up a strawman just to tear it down which is completely unnecessary because it's a meme ideology already.
>>739931569fountainhead is very, very clearly just rand jilling off to the most dominant most successful most alpha male who tames entire courtrooms with his masculine aura and his deep charismatic voice and the smell of the pheromones coming off his ballsack
>>739930263
>>739931412>weaker lolbertismI'm sorry randroid, but I'm simply not accepting your intellectual ""property"" """rights"""
>>739930975Imagine if one day Elon Musk, Sam Altman, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg , Peter Thiel and George Soros disappeared from Planet Earth, the horror
>>739930695>you didn't read a required high school bookUh, yeah, sure, ok pal. It's just you
>>739930263it's a big burden
Galt's Gulch is real though, it's called the state of Israel
>>739931816I wouldn't be surprised if she's openly admitted as much. As retarded as I find the notion of a man getting off scott free for blowing up a building for absurdly petty reasons I'm pretty sure she has said that her works are supposed to be her romantic ideals and not realistic.
>>739931986I've seen Moby Dick, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Old man and the Sea, Hatchet, To Kill a Mocking Birds but never Atlas Shrugged be on the recommended reading list but never Atlas Shrugged
ayn rand is like crack to midwit rightoids. they just can't help themselves.
>>739931986zoomers don't even read books, they changed the curriculum to de-emphasize books and instead they just read 3 page passages max. Also, I don't believe your school forced you to read one of the longest novels ever written
>>739931952See, the issue with many people like you is that you simply lack the capability of seeing second order consequences, let alone third and fourth order. Thankfully, there is a big enough minority of people that do have this ability, so you get to eat every day, have a roof on your head, and even say stupid shit online.
>>739931986This has to be bait. I can't think of a single state that would have her as required reading.
>>739932124Shalom Rabbi
>>739931952Why did you include George Soros
>>739930761Makes sense
>>739931776Indeed. Bioshock's main concept is that a society of pretentious elites would be corrupt and end in disaster. Except Rapture is a whole isolated civilization, which is not Rand's vision: Galt's Gulch was just a sort of vacation resort for the strikers, they don't spend all of their time there, they mostly hide in plain sight out in the world. And even then it took a whole borderline supernatural drug to destroy Rapture. So it truly sucks at saying "here's why Rand's ideas don't work".
>>739930263the idea is that rich people who are siphoning money from every paycheck you get are actually holding up society and if you be a bad goy and act up they'll just leave an bad stuff will happen because ???? like ayn rand seriously thought that the money lending class was more important than the people who are actually doing hard work extracting resources and turning them into procucts because she was bitter about her userous jewish banking family being expelled from communist russia
>>739932325Fontaine and Ryan's conflict would have destroyed rapture with or without plasmids I thinkHuman beings are simply built the need the guidance of a king, true lolbertarianism is against our natureRyan saw himself as king and wasn't going to let that end
>>739932434>are siphoning money from every paycheck you getAre they doing this with magic? Because as far as I know, they GIVE you your paycheck, unless you are your own boss, in which case the government takes a cut and nobody else.
>>739932549Posted from Tel Aviv btw
>>739932124America is retarded and gives companies and banks more power than they deserve. Meanwhile China kicked the CEO out from Ali Baba and no one gives a fuck
>>739932549they lobby the government for tax breaks and handouts, drawing money from public services into their own pocketsit's not a secret it's extremely pervasive
>>739932451>Ryan saw himself as king and wasn't going to let that endThat's the whole issue though. He was a hypocrite who desperately wanted to be the Randian Ubermensch but lacked the perspective and understanding to actually see it through. At best Bioshock works as a character study of Ryan but I don't think it works as an actual critique of Objectivism beyond the trite humans are flawed and no ideology can fully overcome that.
>>739932434>rich people who are siphoning money from every paycheckThe entire point of a business is to introduce a stable source of income at the cost of a cap on your earning potential. If you have a problem with this, start your own business and deal with all the bullshit that comes along with running your own affairs.This is coming from someone who's been in both wage slave, management and owner positions.
>>739929616https://vocaroo.com/17xHlc2gJ9Tr
>>739932434I actually read Atlas Shrugged and this anon is incorrect. The book has several unflattering portrayals of the "useless rich", especially gossipy socialites who don't produce anything. The book praises industrialists, engineers, factory workers, maintenance men. Trains good, bureaucratic weasels bad. The roads must roll.
>>739932758That's not what anon meant, he meant he wants to get paid more just becauseIf your criticism is that companies should not get public handouts, and strong anti lobbying is better, then not only I agree, Rand would too.You will not find a randian defending the government taking your money to gift it to some business or the other, their argument is precisely that the government should have no such power in the first place.
>>739932826>it works as an actual critique of Objectivism beyond the trite humans are flawed and no ideology can fully overcome that.That's the whole point I think, the same critique can be leveled at Marxism too
>>739929616No one wants a game about a bunch of delusional rich idiots holding long-winded speeches at each other and sucking their own dicks.
>>739932885I think companies should be subject to the whims of labor unions. They are fully reliant on their workforce after all. A union is the only thing deciding that industrial capitalism moves in the direction of human wants and needs.
>>739932434Started reading Atlas Shrugged and was frankly amused by the bad faith interpretation of communism in that chapter where the family of the steel company CEO's ridiculed him for being full of himself for no apparent reason other than that he's too selfish. It is clear that Ayn Rand has several biases against communist government.
>>739933001Only if those unions are financed by their members and, likewise, not getting government handouts or favours (which also happens). In this case, I can also agree, workers have the right to freely negotiate their wages, hours, etc etc.
>>739933029She based that particular part on a real life factory occurance and also the national psychology of Sweden at the time. She reacted to the poor sod beamoaning it saying, I paraphrase, "I hold that that is the evilest kind of national psychology ever described".
>>739929616Ayn Rand was a shit writer, economically retarded, and at the end of her life was a hypocrite.
>>739933230Is this real?
>>739932124That faggot Peter Thiel is fleeing to argentina and he literally groomed the vice president
>>739933230Based, we need a weg vidya like this
>>739933267No, there was no broadcasting company that was insane enough to give her air time when she was alive.
As per usual, Mises mogs
>>739933179Alright but it doesn't make the writing any better.
>>739930263Just wasn't feeling it that day
>>739933375Based
>>739933230>and at the end of her life was a hypocriteShe (begrudgingly) PAID her taxes, she was as entitled to that healthcare and benefits as any taxpayer would.
>>739933179What Swedes did you interview about this as she was never in Sweden?
>>739933375Holy based
>>739929616it made me never want to read again
>>739929616If Altas Shrugged sucks, recommend me a good fiction book which serves as an economic treatise.
>>739929616Reminder than her real last name was Rosenbaum and that invalidates everything she has ever said.
>>739933518She wrote a play inspired by a controversial Swede industrialist.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_January_16thhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_Kreuger
You know, I kind of like that the government forbids companies from dumping toxic waste into rivers and lakes. I just think that private profits should be gained at the cost of the public.
>>739932124There is absolutely no positive outcome in allowing a handful of essentially randomly picked people hoard 99.9% of the world's resources to themselves. Sorry, but billionaires are a cancer to humanity and should be executed on sight.
>>739933808They're progressing humanity in a meaningful way which would never occur when wealth is distributed to the dregs of society who would squander it on useless ventures.
>>739933808>There is absolutely no positive outcomeActually there is: my amazon package is coming to my door today.>hoard 99.9% of the world's resourcesAn absolute memeAll their wealth is company shares, and they aren't hoarding anything, they are investing, selling and moving around. That's why the company grows and makes profits, by doing the opposite of hoarding resources.
>>739930092the rpg company is a group of people retard
>>739930975>I find the premise fine, it's not wrong in it's argumentsIt's wrong in that it pretends the "important people" are the people doing none of the actual work. In reality if the CEOs of every company fucked off, the world would shrug, replace them with randos and lose absolutely nothing at all.
>>739933913>Actually there is: my amazon package is coming to my door today.Jeff Bezos does not need to be alive or even have ever existed for that to happen.Everything in the world would run BETTER without the absolutely cartoonish wealth disparity that only empowers the worthless.
>>739931138It’s because the libertarian/anarchist ideology is genuinely fucking retarded for everyone who isn’t part of the wealthiest families. It sounds fine in theory, until you actually start applying the ideas to the real world.The “fittest” billionaires aren’t gigachads. They are Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Bill Gates.The “free” market isn’t free. Your options are just a different flavor of bullshit that’s owned by a small group of people you don’t know.Those “stupid and weak” poor people are working long hours at laborous jobs and managing to live off poverty wages somehow.Hard work doesn’t get rewarded. Companies just dangle promotions above your head and then give them to friends and family. And tje entire hiring process is just vibes based with 0 merit.Supply & Demand are often ignored by companies who jack up prices and control scarcity.etc.They expect you to live in a van while CEO buys his 10th sports car, then call it “prosperity”, and all because they got up set over taxes (unless they can it rent or subcription) and consumer/employee rights.
>>739934005Funny because the actual worthless folk are those waving their fists at the productive, industrious capitalists while contributing nothing else.
It's not a good book
>>739934005That's not entirely correct. There is a chance that the company will simply be taken away by the government, and if your government is corrupt enough the quality of service will suffer with time, leading to the packages being delivered months later or not at all. In order to have an incentive to provide people with acceptable levels of service someone has to profit from it while not being able to outright take away anything they want from you. That's where CEOs come in.
>>739934005>or even have ever existed for that to happen.Oh, you would have invented amazon instead? Why didn't you, then?>Everything in the world would run BETTER without the absolutely cartoonish wealth disparityWould it? Really? Mind you, I think there would be less wealth disparity with LESS government, because they would not have patent laws (Which to be fair, Rand is in favor of, unlike actual libertarians) and handouts to hide behind, but don't worry bro, one more regulation and it will all be fixed!>>739934041>The “fittest” billionaires aren’t gigachads>The “free” market isn’t free.>Supply & Demand are often ignoredYes anon, we live in a world where the government has distorted the natural functions of the market so much that it's not free anymore, and supply and demand get fucked. This is a problem, and your solution would be to fuck them even more. The libertarian solution would be to unfuck them.
>>739929616Bioshock is a parody of Atlas Shrugged.
>>739929616One of the worst books I never finished. The ideas are fun and reading the synopsis was enjoyable but fuck me ann rand is a horse shit writer. The best thing about this shutty book was bioshock.
>>739934236>and if your government is corrupt enough the quality of service will sufferThe quality of service will INHERENTLY suffer, because something run by the government won't operate under supply and demand, and instead will operate on the whims and budgets of bureaucrats
>>739934287Yes it is.
>>739934041> The “free” market isn’t free.Because your retarded gooberment hampers the market with regulations> Those “stupid and weak” poor people are working long hours at laborous jobs and managing to live off poverty wages somehow. Libertarians do not think that laborers are "stupid and weak", and you will never be part of the global working class as a bourgeois westoid. You are getting dekulakized in a revolution.> Supply & Demand are often ignored by companies who jack up prices and control scarcity.Start the competing busness. Who is stopping you? (Hint: starts with a 'g')> They expect you to live in a van while CEO buys his 10th sports carWhy do you think you deserve more?
>>739929616>>The year of our lord 2020+20+5+1 I guess we'll see in 20y
>And then, he made a speech in mondovision>the whole planet was so impressed by it everybody kneel. It's this clever, this powerful, this mindblowing.>the speech was basically "we are more intelligent than you so you don't deserve us suck my cock">ha! We got you now! You have to govern us! You have to give orders! The whole planet is your slave! You are our master now now NOW! PLEASE WE ARE BEGGING YOU, GIVE US ORDERS!>...n-n-n-n-no? We are going to tie you to this electric chair, and you will govern us!!!>noooo, the electric chair just broke!!! How are we going to fix an electric chair???? This is obviously beyond our intelligence!!!!!>eh..... me..... the intelligent MAN.... not the author's barely veiled fetish.... already know how to fix the electric chair...... because I'm intelligent and you are dumdumdimdumb!You can tell a woman wrote this book.
>>739930761Atlas actually holds up the sky, so it's a prequel to Chicken Little
>>739933962That's subjective. This book was written in the 60s, not today, she did not write it about Elon Musk or Bezos so you're opinion on them is irrelevant. Did Henry Ford produce change? Did Rockefeller produce change? Did Thomas Edison and Nikolai Tesla produce change? Those are the people she had in mind.
>>739930552where i come from, "shrugging" means forcing your cock and balls to invert themselves
>>739934769Where the fuck do you come from
>>739934793he comes from junior high school
>>739934339>The US Postal Service set the basic price of mail at an accessible level for literal centuries, prevented monopolistic markets from forming, and never has to worry about supply or demand because it's value is not extrinsic like short sighted apes always attempt to force a profit from>>739934236>>739934248> Oh no, we cannot force people to mortgage their homes to send letters to their family who is in dire need, clearly society is functioning at the whims of a cabal of EVIL GOVERNMENT CRONIES and this is not true, natural, free range, organic, pesticide free, pure capitalismThis is your brain on ideology kidspurity of concept is for idiot tech ceos and professional fart sniffers>>739934428
>>739933640>inspired byso it was bullshit
>>739933913>my amazon package is coming to my door today.Bread and circuses. You are the perfect goy.
>>739930928Filtered.
What happens to the world if Atlas Sharted his pants?
>>739934916>The US Postal Service set the basic price of mail at an accessible level for literal centuries, prevented monopolistic markets from forming, and never has to worry about supply or demand because it's value is not extrinsic like short sighted apes always attempt to force a profit fromEvery single inefficiency committed by the US Postal Service came at a cost in every other part of the economy, as it is funded with taxpayer money (it currently has a net -9 billions). Of course, you, not being a "short sighted ape" did not even begin to consider that this is 9 billions that every year are destroyed somewhere else, and that thousands will lose their livelyhoods over second order consequences of you burning billions on a public service the private sector could have covered Also>prevented monopolistic markets from formingNo shit, they are allowed to operate on a loss because they can steal the missing money from the private economy, THEY are the monopolistic market every other private has to contend with, dumbass.
>>739934991>Bread and circusesThose were paid by the state for people like you, actually, who want gibs instead of freedom.But I was merely proving you wrong on "no positive outcome".What's wrong with a service delivering me bread or circuses? Don't pretend to live an austere life without consumerism, you are on a virtual toy board on 4chan.
>>739931776There so much Ayn Rand in there that saying it's not inspired because it doesn't agree with it is insane. Levine's understanding of Rand is full of holes and mistakes, but saying "chasing human perfection is unhealthy" was a valid rebuttal.
>>739933913>speedy delivery is impossible without the 1%Here's your (you)
>>739934793Idaho
So likeMeme answer would be bioshockFinancial answer, maybe recettear? Any of the shop keeper games where you can tell people who are trying to ripp you off to go fuck themselves Self made man stuff would be like satisfactory and factorio. Just doing it all on your ownHell dont starve also fall under that, striping the world for resources and surviving
>>739935439>impossibleI didn't say thatBut it will cost more, be less efficient and flexible, less innovative, and will be done at the expense of other sectors of the economy if public.This is objective btw, especially the last part is quite literally 2+2=4 tier of true.
>>739935160I’m of the opinion that it’s only non-Americans who use the term “goy” on this board seeing as how it’s only the non-Americans who seem to lack self-awareness.
The fundamental question is whether the state serves the people or if the people serve the state.
>>739930384When you think about it, it's actually a secularization of judaism.
I don't even know what this book is about.
>>739935723The book is about Atlas Shrugging
>>739935106>doesn't understand the difference between a local monopoly(extortion) built on exploiting a lack of infrastructure ( which has only ever been effectively extended through public subsidy in the history of the fucking human race) and a public monopoly in which competition is allowed to exist, nor obstructed, but must contend with a competitive force within the market that is structured to use its subsidy for the public in the manner that best serves the citizens which provided it not gonna make it, hit the library lil bro>muh efficiency live is not a wheel of fractions rolling down a hill into a totality of value for all to enjoy. Some components will always be inefficient because they do no exist in a vacuum, and must make allowances for the context that allows them to exist in the first place. None of your capital economy would exist to derive shares from without a non-shareholding class no matter how much you seethe and cope about it lmao, and not only would it not exist without them, it wouldn't exist without a world in which the capitalist class had not exists for thousands of years to obstruct and sabotage its own growth in the search for number go up dopamine
>>739935758¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>>739935654What is "the people"? You and me probably fundamentally disagree on a lot of things, the state, for example.Thus, the state can never serve us both, it can either serve your faction or mine. The state cannot serve "the people", because "the people" implies some common consciousness or goal that does not exist, people have different ideas and want different things. You can only arbitrarily decide that your faction is the right one to choose "the common good" for everyone else.Thus, it can ONLY be the other way around, the people serve the state. It can be no other way, it's inherent and implicit in statism.
Atlas here AMA
>>739935801but then who are these people serving the state?
Can anyone make a fake quote from Atlas Shrugged where John Galt tells people to send 5 billion dollars to Israel
>>739935787>local monopoly(extortion)What are taxes, pray tell?Am I allowed not to pay them? It's ironic saying "hit the library" after such a massive blunder. Any intelligent person pro public would be careful not to mention extortion in this argument, lmao. A public service IS extortion, retard.>in the manner that best serves the citizens And how would it do that, it cannot even know what serves the citizens, because its budget comes from the government who only has some vague representatives of said citizens, who disagree with each other. It doesn't come directly from the consumer. So it's not clear to me why this method would "serve the citizens" any better. At all. Because you said so? Because you pinky promise?
>>739935894IndividualsThe state taxes every individual individually, punishes them individually in courtrooms, etc etc.And it can come after collectives of individuals it hates, like opposing factions.
>>739930384retarded cattle doesn't read books
>>7399296161, rand accepted social security checks before she died. The "historical sources" love to imply that some random friend pressured or cajoled her into it, but that's fucking bullshit and you all know it. 2, the kikes get help from the government constantly while everyone gets the big fat fucking finger. They say it's because the kike's companies are too important to the economy and that the entire economy would fail if they let them fail, but why did you allow them to grow that large and become a threat to you, to begin with? 3, the kikes are dishonest fucking bastards, they all know damn well that they support each other to the point where it borders on pure insanity, like they are the fucking borg or something, while the stupid arrogant hedonistic europeans("whites") don't. The kikes then constantly use the stupid moronic whites own arrogance against them and suck up their failing companies for little to nothing. So while the kikes keep to themselves and support each other, they are constantly telling the whites "don't collectivise, that's commie crap, don't suppport each other, that's socialist bullshit, be individuals, goy, fuck what your neighbor or people think. The entire world is your oyster, goy, go on lad, go grab that oyster right by the pussy..."
>>739935801one day every person in this nation will control their own destiny. A nation of the truly free, dammit. A nation of action, not words, ruled by strength, not committee! Where the law changes to suit the individual, not the other way around.Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the people.
>>739935832How big is yo dick, no homo
>>739936073>the kikes get help from the government constantly while everyone gets the big fat fucking finger. They say it's because the kike's companies are too important to the economy and that the entire economy would fail if they let them failRandian are against this, and yes the economy would collapse but quickly recoverIt's a boom bust cycle>Government invests in naturally booming sector so they can make the economy "even larger">Now the booming is not natural anymore, a bubble forms of stuff that wouldn't exist if not for gibs>Government wants to win the next elections, so instead of letting it pop and cause a small crisis they shove more money into it>Bubble now becomes a megabubble of businesses that would have never risen in the first place This process goes on for years and years until someone in the government is presented with a choice: print to hyperinflation or let the bubble burst. Obviously, they let the bubble burst, and that's when you get the great depression, or the subprime crisis of 2008
>>739929616We are living in a late-stage socialist society and leftists are incapable of creating art or engaging with opposing ideas
ZZhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-NQWJn-AHw&t=6553s
>>739935936NTA but I have these egghead “statisticians” who tell me all the data about everything and since the data is wholly reliable and unbiased, it makes better decisions than any individual ever could.
>>739936408Not only is the data not wholly reliable and unbiased, but most importantly>it makes better decisions than any individual ever couldI urge you look up the "economic calculation problem". No matter how much "data" you have, only in a market of individual that data can be effectively used for efficiency. In a void, that data becomes meaningless.
>>739935936I'm nooticing we're choosing to not address the matters of infrastructure and subsidies because that would be the exact answer for the hypotheticals you askalso "wwwaaah, I'm being provided a service at a reasonably affordable rate! Help! Help oh god, the tyranny of this! I can't stand it, oh god, help me, I'm supposed to be a consoomer not a citizen! Please, won't someone think of the market!"That first and last time you will ever hear that sentence is when you read that allowed to yourself, your notions are cartoonishly circular and further no point except a vague contrarianism to things that are good for people even if they are technically legally obligated to pay for those things indirectly. Its an intellectual dead end, because the line between direct and indirect payment is philosophical, and lends itself generously to no outcome in particular. The methods you object to, which is taxation to provide a service that you may end up not using is at the end of the day unimportant. For society to function and flourish, a perspective has to be taken of more than one market, one price point, one cost, or one cynical school of thinking. Your can foretell doom and cast doubts about who is really being served, but at the end of the day your own lack of depth in thinking is the only thing you managed to state clearly
>>739936314I don't like lolberatarians but i appreciate how consistent they are with their political views
>>739929616Looks like Bioshock
>>739936492>implying anyone has time to extract hidden truths behind the numbers Life is short and trends are fleeting. Gotta build new roads while the heart’s still beating.
>>739932184Why wouldn't they include George Soros?
>>739936519>also "wwwaaah, I'm being provided a service at a reasonably affordable rate!So, you admit it's extortion (which is what you were accusing the private sector of), and your defense of this is just pretending its just silly how I'm pointing out how your views have no logical consistency?
>still no game based on Martha Gellhorn travels with myselfWhy is this
>>739936258Lol you kikes never fail to disappoint. Death is too good for you.
Fuck off, retard.
>>739936793>Hunter S. Thompson if he girl Fund it
>>739936656Because he's not a CEO and has never even pretended to build any kind of product. Are you a retard? DURRRRRRRRRR HURRRRRRRRRR
>>739936657>His pants fill with piss and shit, brain starts melting out through his ear holds if you point out the infrastructure thinghahahahahahahahaahaaaaaafuckin libertarians, every goddamn time
>>739936948No need to twist in your panties for old George. Guess CEO's are bad but the investors are good, right?
>>739936981I am just trying to understand your position, I'm not having any issue.Your argument, as exposed here >>739936519>things that are good for people even if they are technically legally obligated Is that "extortion is not inherently bad, it's bad when the private does it because it's not good for people. but good if its good for people"You, however, refuse to state how do you define what is "good". Why its "good" that the government builds infrastructure, or sends mail, or offers healthcare rather than the private sector? Your original argument was "extorsion" but we already established you are pro extorsion if you think the cause is good. So what is the line you draw between public and private that makes one okay and the other not okay?You keep laughing and mocking and sperging out but you are yet to make a single coherent argument here. It's just "its good, because I say so", repeated in every post.
>>739937237FWIW, not that anon and I mostly agree with you, but wouldn't you say there are still some legitimate uses to the government? At least in the Adam Smith sense of "free market = a market where new competitors are free to enter", where you need a government to bust naturally forming trusts and keep the market free. This, I think, is partly what the other anon is getting at. (For my part, I think it's also nice that our government gives us one singular legal system; I think Ancapistan might end up ironically having a lot more bureaucracy just from all the mediation that'd have to occur between different parties' interpretations of, say, contract law.)
>>739933550Literally the only time I've ever heard of this book. Is it popular in American schools or something?
>>739937370>but wouldn't you say there are still some legitimate uses to the government?I am not an ancap, I'd say on a practical level, a limited government is preferable to no governmentI merely saw that anon based his criticism of the private on "extortion" yet refused to acknowledge that would invalidate his own position too. He must find some other angle to criticize capitalism from.>I think Ancapistan might end up ironically having a lot more bureaucracy just from all the mediationIt absolutely would, ancaps are constantly fighting each other over the correct natural law.
>>739929616What ayn retard
>>739937237>why is it good that the government builds infrastructure or sends mail or offers health carewe come to the crux of your false modesty here. You have deliberately stepped around thousands of years of history and hundreds of examples in which you are proven wrong in the immediate and over the course of just pre-modern industry to champion this position. The answer is that laisse-faire economy failed in every instance it was attempted, it was overcome by more complicated and dynamic models of thought because it is outdated, outmoded, and operates on static principles such as "taxes are bad and you should only have currency to buy my products should I choose to sell them to you" and though you may object to that statement on the basis of the interference of government, it is still the truth. It ate itself every time it tried to provide a coherent answer to questions as complicated as " how do we get a fifteen ton train from New York to Sacremento without 100 years of catastrophic failure and self-destructive behavior". How should you be treated when you ask asinine things like " what is good?" as if that were a serious objection to the existence of a publicly owned competitor in a market that once again, has intrinsic value not tied to currency or interest rates. This is also true for all of the things I stated. Having a road paved is more than access to new markets for profit. Willfully misinterpreting every answer you receive as some sort of authoritarian power play is the crippling weakness of your ideal. It smacks of victimhood and a moral conceit, no reasoning will ever satisfy to part you from the imagined exceptionalism of you or your weird fetishized version of the private sector that conveniently requires that it not be challenged by its public equivalent in order to function
>>739937917That's a big long post to say nothing anon. A big paragraph with attempts at more sophisticated language constructs to say that the other person's opinions are wrong because they ... le are
>>739932325>it took a whole borderline supernatural drug to destroy Rapturewhich is kinda ironic because iirc it took a borderline supernatural engine to make Galt's Gulch work
>>739933906>squander it on useless venturesLike flying private jets to Epstein's island? For every billionaire there are thousands of similar sociopaths ready to take their place.Factory workers and CEOs are just as replaceable.
>>739938137He's right tho, I'm sure of it.tl;dr laissez-faire bad
>>739938137>I can't provide a reasonable statement to how I expect the world to function without public assistance in building roads, trains, canals, or bridges so I will dither like a cockwaffle and spout shitty hypotheticals instead of making a statementbetter one wasted post than four you bitchmade windbag
>>739929616Bioshock 1+2also>bro trust me bro Peter Thiel and Elon Musk are opressed by commies (Donny Trump)I fail to understand how people treat it as a philosophy book - it is plainly speaking retarded
>>739937917>The answer is that laisse-faire economy failed in every instance it was attemptedLol?It's quite literally the opposite, taxation and regulations keep failing. Every year they pile up and up, and fail and fail, and retards like you are COMPLETELY blind to it as you are proving right now.Government patents have made healthcare prices go nuclear by granting monopolies, for example, and in the EU public healthcare is in open collapse. But no, you say, one more regulation, one more state company, one more spending, and then it will all be fixed!>has intrinsic value not tied to currency or interest ratesIt's obvious you do not even understand what currency really is, but even fouler of a crime is to speak of "intrinsic value". EVEN WITH STATE CURRENCY a banana has NO INTRINSIC VALUE if I don't want to buy it. This is irrefutable, if don't want the banana, it has no value.So at the very core of your post is a FUNDAMENTAL error: you do not even understand what value is.>conveniently requires that it not be challenged by its public equivalentThis is the stupidest point you could make, it's quite obvious why: a public equivalent can just rob the people trough taxes to finance itself, thus it cannot be outcompeted. It can make the competition illegal too. Of course the free market cannot allow a violent actor, such as the public service, to compete.And this is just on a practical level of retardation, on a conceptual level, the idea of collective property is nonsense, but that is a lot of effort for a 4chan post.
>>739938327This isn't a youtuber debate, I don't care if you think your audience likes your little quips. You convinced me of nothing and I'm letting you know
>>739929616bioshockalso the book shits on communists, and compare leftists to parasites, so I like it
>>739938327>I can't provide a reasonable statement to how I expect the world to function without public assistance in building roads, trains, canals, or bridgesAre you under the impression a central authority is absolutely needed for these things? Not only have privates done all of those things, but smaller stateless collectives too, like a village of people voluntarily (no state coercion), paving the roads near them. These things have been happening for thousands of yearsIf the state started to wipe your ass, would you ask me "HOW DO YOU EXPECT SOCIETY TO WIPE ITS ASS WITHOUT THE STATE!?!?!" as well?
>>739938457>bioshocklollmao
>>739938457Yas qween gonna spend all my company scrip tonite!!!
>>739938380>>739938413>Bananas don't matter unless I SAY they matterthis is pathetic, truly guys
>>739929616I don't get how you could make an Atlas Shrugged game that isn't a point-and-click TellTale style game? Saying "Atlas Shrugged game" doesn't denote any gameplay mechanics besides some emphasis on story telling. No, Bioshock is not "Atlas Shrugged".
>>739938595ok
Isn't objectivism retarded? I know nothing about it outside of it's being about selfish to the max
>>739938686dumb rat, shut up
>>739938380To specify the point on currency: money does not require state backing to exist. The reason states used gold to make coins back in the past, and not pieces of paper, was so the coins could be used even in absence of a state since gold was a precious metal.So a merchant could go outside the roman empire, and still trade his gold coins for wares (they found roman coins in india, where those coins had no state backing!), with no state backing needed. It was also meant to outlive the state: a change in administration would change the value of newly minted coins with less gold, but not of old coins. It was a system completely separate than the statePaper FIAT money backed by a central bank is a relatively modern statist scheme to make the economy completely dependent on the state: now that the currency is just paper that only has value because of the state, all citizens are forced to support the state, as a collapse of the state would lead them to abject poverty as their pieces of paper fizzle into nothing
>>739938686It's the result of a personal blog of a coping woman
>>739938686its foundational text is a fictional story involving a motor that can generate infinite energy from nothing
>>739938595Anon the only way you can force me to buy a banana is with violenceA banana only has as much value as the buyer and the seller believe it hasWhy does a transaction go forth if I buy an hotdog for 4 bucks? Because I value the hotdog more than my 4 bucks, and inversely the seller values my 4 bucks more than the hotdog. Were this not the be the case, the transaction would not happen. The value only depends on the agreement of 2 indipendent actors.
>>739938686No, it's the only good philosophy out there.
>>739938825woah... a fictional story has a fictional invention?!and if you think the key part of the story "le infinite energy from nothing" - you didn't understand it
>>739938686It's "retarded" to typical 4chan incel chuds who refuse to take responsibility for their lives who have no aspirations and feel the need to constantly blame others.
>>739938686>I know nothing about it outside of it's being about selfish to the maxNo, one of the many conclusions it reaches is that selfishsm can and should be a virtue and is unjustly frowned upon, but the interesting part of objectivism are the premises that lead to this conclusion. In that regard, ancaps with natural law have more consistent premises than objectivists, but both make decent points on different topics.
>>739938705
>>739938905>Being evil is goodGenuine meme ideology.
>>739939069Classic tard response.
>>739939121Do you enjoy being evil? Do you think Epstein is based?
What I don't understand about lolcucks seething about the government ruining their based and pure capitalism is that the government is effectively blameless. The people that make up the government are just that. People. At the end of they day when a corporation offers to give them shit loads of money to start batting in their corner, they will.The reason the government intervenes in the free market is because the free market lobbies the government so that it does precisely that. Corporate and foreign interests ruined capitalism, capitalists ruined capitalism, they just paid the government to do it. Capitalism decided to genocide the native worker and import slave labour. Capitalism decided to lobby for laws preventing you from complaining about it. Capitalism wants you to own nothing and eat bugs. Every shit heel decision is being pushed by international capitalism, investors, lenders, firms, corporates. The government is just the judicial vector being exploited to enact the will of international finance.
>>739939179Yes he does
>>739935654the state comprises institutions that are often immutable, but people as biological beings are not. The people serves the state in the same way they serve the machines.
>>739929616Rimworld?
>>739939208Objectivism is largely just a massive no true scotsman argument.
>>739936258>Obviously, they let the bubble burstI guess the state bails never happened
>>739930187Starring:>Adam Driver as Yanderedev
>>739939208>lolcucksRand isn't/wasn't a libertarian or "lolcuck">At the end of they day when a corporation offers to give them shit loads of money to start batting in their corner, they will.You have it backwards. You seem to politicians change their mind for money, instead of thinking businesses go to politicians who support them.>The reason the government intervenes in the free market is because the free market lobbies the government so that it does precisely that. Didn't read her book.>orporate and foreign interests ruined capitalism, capitalists ruined capitalism, they just paid the government to do it. Capitalism decided to genocide the native worker and import slave labour. Capitalism decided to lobby for laws preventing you from complaining about it. Capitalism wants you to own nothing and eat bugs. Every shit heel decision is being pushed by international capitalism, investors, lenders, firms, corporates. Didn't read.>The government is just the judicial vector being exploited to enact the will of international finance.tarded idea
>>739939389Yeah these are unserious retards wasting their lived debating what people should be doing rather than discussing what they actually are doing.
>>739939389except to the degree we can see Capitalism in any sector of any economy in any country - we see it perform betterbecause logically to the degree people are free, they are free to succeedthis isn't a "no true scotsman argument" because being a scotsman is an irrelevant or invalid concept to begin with
>>739939474I don't know what the fuck you're talking about don't reply to me ever again.
>>739938686>Isn't this thing that I know nothing about retarded>Hey look at me signalling I'm a good guy because this bad thing is retarded, what no I admit I know nothing about it.
>>739929616we did though
>>739939446I don't give a fuck about some kikess' fan fiction, I'm talking about what happens in reality. It's financial interest groups that drive government, be they domestic globalists or foreign states exerting top or bottom down economic pressures. It's capitalists that lobby for government intervention, because it's cheaper and easier to use regulatory bodies to kill competition than it is to legitimately compete.
>>739939069You are retarded for thinking selfish = evilIn philosophical terms, selfish is any action you take for yourself, altruist is any action you take exclusively for others. If you were to take altruism as a moral absolute, you would never do anything for yourself, leading to your death by starvation in a week. An altruist collective would devolve all their resources into saving animals and plants, thus starving in a week. As such, pure altruism is an ideology of death.A degree of selfish is INHERENT to human life, you cannot live human life without it, to call it evil is to consider humanity evil (in which case kill youself and reduce the problem by 1). A society that appreciates both to a degree flourishes. A society that shames every selfish act and praises every selfless one, is doomed to disaster.>>739939402Can you read? I said:>Government wants to win the next elections, so instead of letting it pop and cause a small crisis they shove more money into itThose are the state bails, I even said it happens several times before the pop. The pop only happens when the bubble is so big it cannot be bailed without hyperinflation.
>>739930392Not just any statue either, but the statue of Atlas in Midtown Manhattan.
>Wtites a schizo rambling novel>2026 people are still mindbroken over the book and it's still getting read and discussedAyn Rand won
>>739939521nigger
You can't mention Ayn Rand today because she triggers midwits. A midwit's natural habitat is dismissing things they haven't read. A midwit is someone smart enough to have absorbed the "consensus" opinions of others, but not smart enough to question where those opinions came from or whether they hold up. The response is almost scripted. "Oh, Rand? That's just a philosophy for edgy teenagers." "Nobody serious takes Objectivism seriously." "She's basically just selfish people's intellectual cover." - no arguments, just regurgitated.
>>739939389No, it's a response to communists believing in group thinkAyn grew up in a leftist society and was sick of seeing how retarded they are
>>739939491>except to the degree we can see Capitalism in any sector of any economy in any country - we see it perform betterNo, we do not. Profit motive has been consistently shown to decrease quality and sustainability long term. And no amount of profit changes the fact that capitalism in practise requires state intervention. Objectivism is capitalist "True communism has never been tried".
>>739939580There is no ethical labor under socialism, commie. Business do what they can to survive.
Only people who are unironic libertarians are either grifters or people without two brain cells to rub together.
>>739939580That's wrong you fucking retard. That's the fucking problem and whole point.>>739939594It wasn't even schizo people just can't cope with english literature anymore because they're so used to trannies and being mind raped by rick and morty.
>>739939623>Rand was born Alisa Zinovyevna Rosenbaum on February 2, 1905, into a Jewish bourgeois family living in Saint Petersburgactually it's just the natural state of a jew
>>739939580Actually it's the exact opposite, capitalists want less regulation and more competitionAnd Adam Smith was white, it was communism that was founded by jews
>>739932887Conveniently that's the exact plot of Bioshock 2!
>>739939643Libertarians aren't Objectivists. The fact you think they are proves you don't know enough.
>>739939583>a degree of selfish is inherentDas right, and the reason why Epstein is the good guy
>>739939643she hated lolberts thougheverbeit>>739939635the difference is we can see to the degree what happens when we approach "real capitalism" and "true socialism", one gives success and wealth, the other mass murder here's actually a good video on it by a former commie - https://youtu.be/i2Y3PGX3oe4?si=CDp0yr2rFbOFQ94U
>>739939663You didn't make an argument. Karl Marx was also jewish and you worship him
>>739939701kill yourself
>>739939690Epstein was a Democrat and leftist who pushed for woke culture and transgenderism
Rand's philosophy is fundamentally about the individual's capacity to think independently, to use reason without deferring to authority or collective opinion. And the primary mechanism by which people reject her is by deferring to authority and collective opinion. Which is ironic when people are proving her point while dismissing it.
>>739939735
>>739939720Did I touch a nerve there, rabbi?Karl Marx was jewish, as were all the backers of communism at the time
>>739939735I'm a selfish queer and I WILL push for mandatory gender reassignment surgery
>>739939768kill yourself jew puppet
>>739939690>>739939720>>739939764Why do leftists get so angry when you point out epstein was a Democrat?
>>739933029>It is clear that Ayn Rand has several biases against communist government.Of course she did, she grew up under communism and saw how it worked first hand. Most escapes and survivors of communism are like that.
Feels good seeing some people actually defend Rand. The world needs her ideas, and we don't all gotta be pathetic retards. She's genuinely one of the best self-help writers out there.
>>739939764He also has photos with Fidel Castro, and Trump is anything BUT a libertarian icon. He cut like 0.5% of the budget and called it a day, then passed a bill increasing it again.You know who was never on the island and described as "dangerous" by Epstein? You guessed it, libertarian candidate Ron Paul
>>739939809the fact that you think leftists have anything to do with democrats at all shows you're completely clueless
>>739939809>leftistsKek
>>739939583>If you were to take altruism as a moral absolute, you would never do anything for yourself, leading to your death by starvation in a week.A society where altruism is inherent for all people is one in which everybody takes care of each other. Selfishness is unnecessary. Even if that is practically impossible, as a ideological goal it's perfectly fine. >As such, pure altruism is an ideology of death.Any pure ideology is the ideology of death. That is why they have to be controlled by knowledge and reason. Like say the understanding that plants are not humans. >A society that shames every selfish act and praises every selfless one, is doomed to disaster.No? Because the correct understanding of selfishness is that it's a inherent sin. It's something you have to do to survive but that neither makes it desirable or good. If you praise the act you are fundamentally undermining the concept of morality and thus any sense of a society.
>le true capitalism>le true objectivismi'm tired, bros.
>>739939828It's a bit sad people can't engage Rand because they're automatically turned off by her politics.>>739939860saying shit doesn't make it so, half your sentences are incoherent
>>739939754>And the primary mechanism by which people reject her is by deferring to authority and collective opinion.No? The primary argument people use to dismiss her claim is actual knowledge. Right wingers tend to on average be able to not perceive reality. Ayn Rand was no exception in that.
>>739939894>saying shit doesn't make it so, half your sentences are incoherentyou are not capable of higher level thought
>>739939894>saying shit doesn't make it so, half your sentences are incoherentNothing I said is even remotely complicated. If you are genuinly this stupid you shouldn't be engaging in this conversation, period.
Ayn retard. Atlas sharted.
>>739939860>A society where altruism is inherent for all people is one in which everybody takes care of each otherThen they are gifting things among each other, but now they have to share it with THE REST OF THE WORLD, because else they are not being altruistic, they are selfishly holding resources.An altruistic society is one where if a man asks to fuck your wife you should not deny him, it would be a selfish protection of your reproduction and lineage. Do you understand the issue? You need to be selfish sometimes, you need to say "nope, my wife is mine, you can't fuck her."An altruistic society is one where if you see a nigger stabbing people you cannot harm him, because that would harm someone else, you need to show the other cheek and get stabbed hoping the others have time to escape. It's sicked, twisted, unnatural, and wrong. Selfishsm is necessary, you need it.
>>739939809>leftist>democratchoose one
>>739939664>>739939649>Amazon/Meta/Musk/OpenAI wants more competition and less regulationYou corpo boot licking faggots are so thoroughly and completely mindbroken that it's pointless even talking to you. You can look at instances such as Open AI begging for regulation back when they were ahead of the game a few years ago and it just goes straight into the 'ideologically inconsistent' trash bin. Or Tesla lobbying for emission regulations in the UK, or pushing tarrifs to block foreign competition in the domestic EV market. Or any number of these multi-billion dollar corporations lobbying to pay 0 federal tax on profits and other such bullshit, all while exporting jobs and sucking nations dry of their wealth.
>>739932124God you people are awful
>>739939958>>739939930it's clear you aren't capable of intelligent conversation
>>739939981>it's not real leftismFallacy
>>739940002lol shitlib is fucking mad (and economically/intellectually illiterate)
>>739940043https://test.mensa.no/home/test/ensolve this and come back to us, don't bother responding if you're under 120
>>739939981corporations are creations of leftism thougheverbeit
>>739939924>Right wingers tend to on average be able to not perceive realityLeft wing philosophy outright rejects reality, it has no axiom of objectivity or stance against contradiction, so this is an hilarious take.>>739940002You are right, but anon is also right. When he says "capitalists" he means, people who ideologically support capitalism as a sytem. This is not the same as "capitalists" as in "those who who hold the capital", the businessmen. The buisnessman follows no idelogy, and wants to regulate because it helps him crush competition.
>>739940068>>739940095>braindead
>>739940068>gets his dopamine from "acting" retarded online
>>739939981communist retarded detected>NOOOO DEMS AREN'T REAL LEFTISTS
>>739940002Leftists are the ones defending billionaire corporations and hedgefunds though, and that has nothing to do with your original claimAnd bootlicker is a term used against communists, your no u's are getting more pathetic.
>>739940002see >>739940095
A is AExistence existsThis kills 99% of philosophersAyn Rand won
>>739940118holy shit I didn't realize it was still american hourscan you retards just go to sleep so this board can have some decent discussion
>/v/ is full of communist incelsWhat happened?
>>739940116>>739940115No true scotsman is a fallacy you low IQ bootlicking faggots
>>739940147Leftist philosphers unironically, genuinely, actually have no response to this because their whole ideology comes from schizobabbles Hegel wrote as a prank 200 years ago
>>739940143>>739940146lmao keep repeating the same lie maybe it'll become true eventually
>>739940168Its the weekend, leftists come here to shill their retarded world view. They will lose and blame /pol/ then go back to discord
>>739940190More accurately it's based on the analytic-synthetic dichotomy (known as "distinction" to them) where they essentially divide logic and facts, Rand solved this but Academia would rather everyone die than admit this.
>>739940182>doesn't even understand what that fallacys is all aboutthat's gaslighting you're doing you retarded faggot
>>739940182Hopeless niggerfaggot
>the only argument LOLbertarians have is "BUT WHAT ABOUT AMAZON??" Kekaroo
>>739939979>but now they have to share it with THE REST OF THE WORLD, because else they are not being altruisticOkay? That's a issue of borders, not of ideology. >An altruistic society is one where if a man asks to fuck your wife you should not deny himAn truely altruistic society is one where the concept of marriage most likely just wouldn't exist. The question of reproduction as a need being handled in terms of wife and husband is largely a product of selfishness. >Do you understand the issue?I do. Which is why I pointed out: >Even if that is practically impossible, as a ideological goal it's perfectly fine.The most sensible path forward when taking knowledge and reason into consideration is to threat it as a necessary sin. You have to do the bad thing, if not to survive then certainly to not go crazy. But doing the bad thing should still be treated as bad. Guilt should be felt, reflection should be had, but the individual should still be able to move forward. >An altruistic society is one where if you see a nigger stabbing people you cannot harm him, because that would harm someone else, you need to show the other cheek and get stabbed hoping the others have time to escape.An altruistic society is one where racism just doesn't exist. So it's mostly a moot point.
>>739940168Social democracy failed the people, but they all blame capitalism. So the right became as socialist as the left.
>>739938759There’s absolutely zero archeological or anthropological proof to what you are saying - there’s not a single historical occurence of barter being a main method of trading in any civilization - the argument that commodity money arose as a way to replace barter and the evil statist gubbermint ruined it with fiat is bullshit - we as humanity started as gift and debt economies and then fiat money was invented as tokens/IOU from temples/palaces/kings or whatever ruling/clerical class there was to pay soldiers and other enforcers for their labour, fiat money is not modern at all.Before you try to refute my argument try to provide me with a single example of a historical society with barter as main mode of trade and purely commodity money replacing it
>>739940241communists*they can't shut the fuck up about amazon, they keep calling it a monopoly
>>739940101>You are right, but anon is also right. When he says "capitalists" he means, people who ideologically support capitalism as a sytem. This is not the same as "capitalists" as in "those who who hold the capital", the businessmen. The buisnessman follows no idelogy, and wants to regulate because it helps him crush competition."capitalists" in that sense, are equal to "communists" then. Neither system either purport produces anything remotely structurally aligned to their ideology.
>>739940101>Left wing philosophy outright rejects realityNope. Right wing philosophy does. >it has no axiom of objectivity or stance against contradiction,? It does both. Meanwhile most right wing ideology proudly rejects the concept of truth.
>>739940168TRUMP RUINED THE ECONOMY YOU FUCKING FAGGOT HE IS ONE OF THE ELITE IN ATLAS SHRUGGED AND HE MADE YOUR LIFE WORSE
>if I say this dog is a cat it'll become true eventually
>>739940101Threadly reminder that right wingers are statistically and factually less intelligent than nearly everyone else in the world
>>739940270Capitalists believe in the free market, communists want big government to have complete controlThats why we call commies "bootlickers"
>>739940043>>739940085his silence is deafening
>>739940357Subjectivity.
I seriously recommend this book. A self-help book that actually integrates philosophy, step by step, on how to be a better person, intellectually, and practically.
>>739940407>>739940325>left wing media claims bootlickers are more intelligent than right wingers>no sourceLeftists have lower IQs, the lowest IQ group in America is most likely to vote Democrat
>>739940407No they're not.
>>739940325proof that leftists are bugmen that cannot read
>>739940461>>739940467Right wingers are statistically less intelligent than everyone else Sorry facts don't care about your feelings
>>739940407>they're unironically claiming dems=leftistsYep, pic checks out
>>739940461>the lowest IQ group in America is most likely to vote DemocratThe lowest IQ group is republican voters.
>>739940474>>739940467That guy is a jewish leftist that spams the same cherrypicked images every day anonsHe's also admitted to being ugly irl on a /co/ thread where he was spamming those images
>>739940423And yet they're both a pack of retards playing make believe. And if you think these 'Capitalists' wouldn't drop to their knees to lick Palantir boot you have another thing coming.
>>739940494Actually the lowest IQ group in America is most likely to vote Democrat
>>739940512>He's also admitted to being ugly irl on a /co/ thread where he was spamming those imagesLeftists usually are incredibly ugly so this is of no surprise to me.
>>739940558The lowest IQ group ARE republicans.
>>739940531OK but bootlickers are still communists, this weird no u doesn't make sense
>>739932434this is applying modern capitalist society (not that capitalist) retroactively to ayn rand's idealistic story
