What vidya stories feature complex morality?
The truth is that God is like a software developer. What would you care about the feelings of the bots you made?
>>741648338Kick Demiurge in the nuts.
>>741648504if i made the bots capable of feeling emotion then yes, i would care about their feelings.
>>741648338this, except instead of the gay "ants you walk on" thought process, it's because "god" wouldn't think on a normal human singular brain kind of way leading it to essentially be absent
>>741648338>complex>easily defeated with two wordsDid you think SOMA was deep?
>>741648338All you need to do is have two morality axis, good and bad, so you can do loads of good and loads of bad without one cancelling out the other. But the only game that has something like that is new vegas, and even then only for the reputation system, not the karma system.
>>741648504then he is not all powerful and there is no reason to follow his systemif your AI gained sentience and you simply punished it for not doing what you wanted then the AI has committed no moral error
>>741649181which two words?
>>741648338>Then why is there evilBecause mankind is evil, literally the entire doctrine of original sin explains this. Alas, people just ignore original sin.Calvinist theology perfectly explains all of thisPsalm 51:5 - Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,and in sin did my mother conceive me.Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart is deceitful above all things,and desperately sick;who can understand it?Sin causes deathRomans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinnedRomans 5:19 - For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.Christ came into the world to save mankind from his own sins.
>>741649750>create fundamentally evil beings>torture them for being evilis god retarded?
>>741649750>Because mankind is evilcould god have made a world where mankind isnt evil?
>>741648338This part is a fallacy and the most dishonest part of this image. The point of free will is to chose good which if there's no evil then there's also no value.
>>741649750>Christ came into the world to save mankind from his own sins.What about all the people who existed before christ was born. We're talking 100x more time passing if you believe scientific evidence, or at least 6x more based on the bible, before the birth of christ compared to after. They are simply punished for being created and having no way out of the system? God sounds like a retarded nigger.
>>741648338>dismantles your argument and builds your character
>>741648338>your creator would rather give you free will and guidelines to give a good life and punishment for people who stray rather than make outright a bunch of thoughtless automatons?>HE SUCKS!
>>741649991>The point of free will is to chose goodso it's a test?
>>741649658deez nuts
>>741649991>make people suffer because there's no value otherwise
>>741649658He probably means free will, which definitely explains why kids are born with cancer and animal suffering. Oh no, wait, it doesn’t…
>>741649991sounds like a test to me.a test that an all knowing being would know the answer to.
>>741650118No>>741650285Yes>>741650328No
>>741650390>you have to suffer because... uh... I SAID SO!!!
>>741649843>>741649859Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Mankind was not created evilGenesis 2:16-17 - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”Genesis 3:6 - So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.Man(adam) disobeys GodGenesis 3:17-19 - And to Adam he said,“Because you have listened to the voice of your wifeand have eaten of the treeof which I commanded you,‘You shall not eat of it,’cursed is the ground because of you;in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;and you shall eat the plants of the field.By the sweat of your faceyou shall eat bread,till you return to the ground,for out of it you were taken;for you are dust,and to dust you shall return.”The subsequent curse for the disobedience. I omitted the temptation that satan had done, you can read that part yourself.
>>741648338All other religions knew to make their gods somewhat limited, but jews in their stupidity wrote their one as an allpowerful allknowing alleverything being not realising how it'd break whatever morality they imparted on it.
>>741650449can't appreciate the rainbow without a little rain. Without contrast good things aren't good. If everything is good, nothing is.
>>741650453why would god create adam if god knew that he was going to disobey him and then god was going to have infinite people he would have to torture in the future. seems kind of retarded or evil or something
>>741649859Meaningless drivel>why didnt God le do this?This is the same as asking if God can microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself cannot eat it. It's childspeak. Nonsense.Feel free to pretend like it's some big gotcha though
>>741648338an omnipotent being wouldn't be bound by the semantics of language
>>741650453why would god create a garden with "the very bad tree that makes me torture you if you eat from it"? is he stupid?
>>741648338counterargument, god is just having a lulz watching humanity struggle
>>741650554>yeah the contradiction is painfully obvious but uhhh dont talk about it please
>>741650309Sounds like free will to me.
>>741650651Case and point
>>741649991>The point of free will is to chose good which if there's no evil then there's also no value.why did god make it that way?
>>741650523I can very much appreciate being fed without being hungry, or being alive and healthy without being sick and injured. That nonsense that good cannot exist without evil makes no sense. Evil doesn't improve good, just makes everything worse.
>>741650538Would you rather be friends with a robot or a real person? Do you really have free will if you can't choose to go and do something else?
>>741650554>This is the same as asking if God can microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself cannot eat itWait, can he?
>>741650554the answer to that is "and then obviously he eats it because he's an all powerful god"whats the answer to "an all loving and all powerful god cant make a non-evil humanity"?
>>741650791i dont see how i could be friends with a person that i knew was going to betray me and cause enormous amounts of suffering but maybe god just has brain damage or something
>>741650607>>741650791
>>741649991epicurefags never have an answer for this. when you ask them if there is no evil is there then good either? *crickets*
>>741648504no, God had a son: whereas software developers are unlikeable soulless husks who pull their floppy useless penises to AGP sissy hypno porn.
>>741648338>evil existsflawed premise, there is no such thing as objective good/evilreject your antiquated morality systems and embrace postmodernism
>>741650852The only possible option is that his love is way different than our definition of it, or as christcucks would say, "God works in mysterious ways".
>>741650523This is an argument from what we are now.If the Abrahamic God were all-powerful, he could've made the human mind in such a way that it could enjoy the good without reference to a contrasting suffering. It's only due to homeostasis and hedonic adaptation that you think otherwise. A being that created the universe wouldn't need to be bound by this rule when creating humans. If they couldn't create humans without this design flaw, then they are limited and not all-powerful. They chose to create the necessity of suffering.
>>741650870>Get created by God>Do what he doesn't want me to do after being explicitly warned of the consequences>WTF?!?!?! I DID THE THING AND NOW GOD BETRAYED ME?!?!!??
>>741650990This image is arguing against Christian morality on its own terms you dipshit midwit.
>>741650884If there is no evil then everything is good. >But how do you define-There's no reason to define good, it's the default, everything is good.
>>741651019>god creates a guy>god knows he will betray him>god gets betrayed>WOOOOOOW HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW
If you probe a christian long enough you will find out most of them believe he's just a tulpa skydaddy, even if they won't outright say it. Few of them believe he actual physically walked the earth these days, he's just an useful supernatural archetype for a lot of people, which is fair enough
>>741650736See>>741650523 he made it that was because contrast is necessary. >>741650789It does but you're too retarded to understand it. You wouldn't appreciate good without evil but because you're a retard you aren't even aware of it.>>741651007Again, a dishonest argument. It's not a design flaw. It's a feature. Good cannot fundamentally exist without something to contrast it as good is only good with a point of reference. Remove the point of reference and you remove the existence of good as a concept.
>>741651138so god is bound by the rules of logic?
>>741651138I wouldn't like something because i don't dislike something else? That's some wretched logic there.
>>741648504>Bro, God is just a PROGRAMMER, bro!
>>741651138sounds like you're arguing in favor of god not being all powerful.thats heresy, bub. off to the deepest pits of hell for you!
Why is God simultaneously infallible and not beholden to things like human logic or time because he is the ultimate being yet also appears to make illogical, human-like mistakes and have human-like emotion? It just seems kind of odd he can see into the past and future, knowing all that is and will be, and yet he's surprised when the entities he made in his image were tricked by another entity (that I guess he didn't) and took no measures to ensure that never happened despite absolutely knowing it would because he's infallible.
>>741651105thanks but I didn't ask
>>741651121no, because to be good you must do what is opposite of evil, and therefore if there is no evil there is no good.you just want to live in a paradoxical world where your bad decisions have no consequences. ETERNALLY.
>>741651129Not to mention, most of them are just golems for kikes.
>>741651138>Good cannot fundamentally exist without something to contrast itA nice rape-free neighborhood cannot exist without a horrible rapeful one existing somewhere else?
>>741651138I'm sure those infants born in crippling pain with genetic defects or burned alive in horrible pogroms really came to learn the necessity of suffering as a baseline reference for "the good". It's definitely not antiquated post-hoc cope capitalizing on the worst of the human condition to ram social conditioning down each other's throats.
>>741651125>Guy has a bunch of kids with his smoking hot wife>Get promised that God is going to redeem mankind through a promised child that will redeem mankind from his sins and restore humanity to union with God, and even have your descendants adopted as his own children.>God appears as a man in the flesh, gets tortured by his own people, and bears all of the sins of mankind from all time>The future of mankind lives in eternal glory as an immortal and royal priesthood
>>741651370rape can only exist if consent does
>>741648338The paradox is resolved when you let go of your need for God to be good. The only only god is Lord Moloch, the insane demon god who hates everything good.
>>741651591Consent can only exist if rape does?
>>741651643yes anon. i'm glad you figured it out
>god makes a prideful angel that he knows will trick humans>god makes humans that he knows will get tricked by a prideful angel>god makes the tree of evil and malice that he knows the prideful angel will use the trick the humans>the prideful angel tricks the humans using the tree of evil and malice>"WOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW HOW COULD I HAVE KNOWN?"
>>741651523tfw your friend makes you torture millions of people but its okay because in the future you will stop torturing some of them
>>741648504That's not the God that Christians want you to believe in.
>>741648338For all the attempts to tear christianity down there's never anything that explains why/how atheism could be a good thing
>>741651370>rapeful
>>741651709This doesn't make any sense. If consent existed then it would exist. It does not somehow "demand" rape exist as a concept or material reality. We would not be consciously aware of consent but that doesn't imply it does not exist. Plenty exists in the universe or on Earth and it doesn't demand some diametric concept.
>>741651268The problem is that you don't understand those stories.The old testament is called the Torah, which means "Teachings."They aren't literal depictions of historical events, they're plays, poems, and stories that are meant to teach a subject matter in an understandable way.Retarded fundies and atheists are ironically total equals when it comes down to having a retarded, literalist interpretation of those events.God did not literally hold court with Satan and then torture a guy named Job who actually existed. That story was just a play to illustrate the folly of presuming God's will. Believing it is or is supposed to be a historical account is just as retarded as believing Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar is a historical account.In short, it doesn't make sense to you because you're clinging to the most retarded perspective possible. Of course things don't make sense when you choose a viewpoint that's nonsensical from the outset.
i still don't understand why christians have an explanation for everything until they don't, in which case the answer is then 'god works in mysterious ways'. if god works in mysterious ways, then how did you have any explanations for anything at all? by that logic, all your theology and rationalization is just human guesswork and wishful thinking
>>741651618Why would you pray to an objectively evil god who doesn't care about you at all?
>>741651808its good because its one less pillar of control for the world's elite to manipulate you with.>buh liberals are atheist and they've done horrible things!those 'people' simply replaced a god-following religion with a billionaire-following one.
>>741651858>Jesus and God and stuff arent real, they are just metaphors to reinforce human behavior
>>741651852but the concept of rape does require a dichotomy. thats how its constructed.you're the only trying to apply universal laws to mortal constructs
>>741650309Your cells have free will too. As do the bacteria."Infinite love" means everything is permissible, nothing is prevented or encouraged.
>>741651709Expect we theorize concepts that don't physically exist all the time.A world where everyone only had consensual sex could 100% think of the concept of the non-consensual without requiring that it ever occur to anyone. We don't physically need a phenomenon to imagine its negation, just like we don't truly need a retarded good/evil dichotomy to value something.
>>741648338>exists purely to maintain order.>doesn't give a shit if you consider her evil>will put you in saw traps if you actually worship her.
>>741651967>peaceful consensual sex could not exist unless rape also did
>>741651858Then why are the people who supposedly follow the Torah the most evil people on the planet?
>>741651946It's not all or nothing, dipshit.Again, your problems always come down to you being wilfully obtuse and unable to comprehend what people are saying.Here's another example, try not to drool on yourself: Jack has two apples. He eats one, and then buys two more. How many apples does Jack have?The answer isn't "Jack literally exists," nor is it "Jack isn't real, this is all a hypothetical story," it's "Jack has three apples."You're supposed to LEARN. The point of the story is to TEACH.
>>741648338>Evil existsnoAlso no game has complex morality
>>741651858>its all just a story, its not real!ok good glad we could clear that up.
>>741652107you keep adding things and are diluting the statement. focus only on the statement
>>741652107>>741652072>>741651967>>741651852>>741651709>>741651591>>741651370The crux of Christianity seems to be>You need to worship God because theres evil and it will take you if you dont surrender to God (God also made that evil for some raisin)
>>741652061Tell me rocks have free will.Unless you're misquoting Spinoza here, this shit is certifiably retarded.
>>741651943Lord Moloch doesn't ask you to pray to Him. You serve Him by committing evil deeds for their own sake and actively striving to be your worst possible self, because seeing humans willingly debase themselves in His name amuses Him deeply. Look at it this way: it literally doesn't matter whether you're good or bad, because Lord Moloch is going to torture your soul forever after you die either way, so you might as well have fun while you can, right?
>>741652072in a world where consent didn't exist there would be nothing but sex
>>741652168>Jesus and God and stuff arent real, they are just metaphors to reinforce human behavior
>>741650309Not to mention that free will is already addressed in that image.
>>741652297>The apples aren't real, they're just metaphors to reinforce human behaviorDone talking to you. Keep insisting on being a retard.
>>741652215why does moloch require humans to debase themselves to derive amusement? that seems awfully tedious and unreliable. could He not amuse himself with his divine powers, or cause Himself to be amused without requiring the actions of lower beings?
>>741648504If your bot had enough intelligence and consciousness to a point it would be like a son to you
>>741652339Yes per your own logic the apples are metaphors to reinforce human behavior.>Jack has two apples. He eats one, and then buys two more. How many apples does Jack have?>The answer isn't "Jack literally exists," nor is it "Jack isn't real, this is all a hypothetical story," it's "Jack has three apples.">You're supposed to LEARN. The point of the story is to TEACH.This overtly implies Jack and the apples aren't real. Dismissing the entire Bible, God, Jesus, etc. as "merely existing to teach" implies they're as imaginary as Jack and his apples. Whatever behavior you believe the aesop you believe with reinforce is irrelevant.
>>741648338>>741652170Xenogears
>>741648338Because free will. Next question.
>>741651945>its good because its one less pillar of control for the world's elite to manipulate you with.From what I can tell it correlates heavily with cults of personality and people get manipulated anyway, like in soviet countries, and both China and North Korea are currently a state-atheism country
>>741652517per the flow chart the next question is "could god have created a universe with free-will but without evil"
>>741652061free will, along with choice, is an illusion. once you realize life is basically an invisible maze - one interconnected to everyone else's - you'll start seeing the "choices" you make as merely the twists and turns in the maze. if you've ever wondered why something just seems "impossible" or alternatively when something seems "just right", it's the maze of life interacting with your intuition.
>>741650118>so it's a test?No, and yes. You have two paths now, Anon. You either follow God, or you don't. You either live forever under His light, or you live in eternal darkness without His presence. You and your free will will lead you. In the end, it's your choice. After all, it seems you are happier living away from God. That's what hell is. An eternity away from God.
>>741650453How is eternal and infinite pain and suffering a fair punishment for eating an apple?
>>741652517>gives you a golfball size tumor in your frontal lobe that causes you to murder a bunch of peopleoops haha sorry uhhh have fun in hell I guess
>>741652643does god already know what choice I'll make? if so what's the point of the whole exercise?
>>741652681It was a really nice apple.
>>741650554>>why didnt God le do this? Why indeed. He's supposed to be all loving. You'd think an all loving god wouldn't create a world with suffering. Christcucks STILL have no answer to this.
>>741652595>"could god have created a universe with free-will but without evil"Yes, but He didn't. God created god and evil. Everything terrible and horrible on this earth and in heaven were created by God. You are here, on this earth, for a reason. This earth was designed like this for a reason. Most people think it's a filter. God tells you to trust Him. This life is passing. So short this mortal life is.
/v/ is so brown it's falling for the most retarded bait images imaginable.
>>741652792The answer tends to be that suffering is the fault of humans, which leads back to why God allows suffering, which leads back to free will.
>>741652718>does god already know what choice I'll make?Yes. God exists outside time and space, because God created time and space.>if so what's the point of the whole exercise?To experience existence.
>>741652808doesn't sound like a particularly loving god
>>741652168>>741652339i get what you're saying, but once you say>this story about god isnt realthen you compromise the integrity of the rest of it.where does it start? where does it end?is the great flood real? is jesus real? is god himself real?using your apple example suppose we have a book called>stories about jack and his applesthe second you say>this story about jack eating apples on page 4 isnt realyou call into question all of the other stories.if page 4's story isnt real then why should i believe the rest of it is real?
>>741652681He was saving that apple for the kids
>>741650523Could god create humans who can appreciate the ranbow without a little rain?
>>741652895All evil invented by God is made by the hands of humans. God is only watching. If all humanity decided to stop doing evil, evil would disappear that instant. Man chooses evil.
>>741652889would god not be able to create people who experience existence without the presence suffering or evil?
>>741652808Why the hell is God using the world to filter people he made, whose outcomes he already knows, to get them to some other life he could already spawn them in?
>>741652964if i make a machine that kills people, i am still responsible for those people being dead.
The real issue is moral choices, most games don't let you make moral choices. If you don't like something in many games, say the canned options you're given, the game effectively halts.
>>741652994Yes, but He didn't. >>741652995Because they still have to earn it to prove it. You have to experience evil and suffering to know not to do evil by your own hands.
>>741652619This is true but also if you use determinism as an excuse for inaction you are a massive pussy living in Sartrean bad faith.We are still actors actively choosing, even if the choice is fated by all of the churning flux. The choice to chalk up a failure to fate is still a choice, and we are still a causer even if we ourselves are caused.
>>741648338Whether or not God exists is irrelevant, for I have seen his creations and have judged him unworthy of my worship.
religion is low iq btw.
>>741653051>Yes, but He didn't.so he's evil then
>>741652889>born into a warzone>born into slavery>born into poverty>born crippled>aborted>died from birth complicationsWhat an experience.
>>741652883the Christian religion thrives on people feeling guilt. as it is false, don't fall for it. suffering is an entirely human concept since we are the only ones in the animal kingdom that are aware of our own demise.suffering comes from a couple of things:1) holding onto the false notions of a soul or "self"2) attempting to reconcile the fact that religion says we are special but the universe does not appear to "care" (for lack of a better word)accepting your own irrelevance in the universe will ironically make you happier than trying to find meaning through the falsities of religious doctrine (which are only meant to control you)
>>741650117Read the image again. Try to focus on the bottom left this time.
>>741653009>if i make a machine that kills people, i am still responsible for those people being dead.No. I don't blame the rock that killed Abel for his murder.>>741653090God is everything. God invented evil. God is pure good. Your human mind is thinking binary. God is everything, including you.
>>741652459>why does moloch require humans to debase themselves to derive amusement?Because He's unapologetically sadistic, and the fun He has watching us inflict pointless suffering on each other is the only reason He doesn't just destroy the entire world. If we ever start to bore Him, it's lights out for all of us.
>>741653079>We are still actors actively choosingone could easily argue that we have no choice but must take responsibility anyways since things can only go one way in our lives
>>741653051He made people. He made evil. He knows what the things he did will do. Why is he trying to make the people he made prove that they wont do something he made when he can just not make the damn thing and already knows what the results will be?
networks are GROWN not BUILTGod grew this plane of existenceHe didn't build italso, evil doesn't existjust weakness
>>741653094Now you know in your next life not to do war against your fellow man. Else evil will eternally tempt you due your ignorance.
>>741652995So they earn that place? If people were just made and thrown into hell or heaven, there would be no justifiable reason. If you let them live and wait a little (it's very little time in god's pov) they get enough proof to see why they belong in heaven or hell.
>>741653159Is God rape?
i also don't understand why extreme evil needs to exist. even if i accept at face value the argument that the dichotomy between good and evil must exist, why must abject evil exist? we only need one yardstick by which to start measuring good, so why not just have mild evil?
>>741653159>god invented evil>god is pure goodwhy did god invent evil if he's good?
>>741653159if you accept that god is evil i dont know why you even feel the need to argue the point but okay glad we sorted that out
>>741648338Astlibra
>>741648338There is no evil in this world.
>>741653232Yes, and we are the raped, we shall rape back the demiurge when time comes
>>741653159>God is everything. God invented evil. God is pure good. Your human mind is thinking binary. God is everything, including you.It's insane what religious people talk like without providing even a slight hint of evidence.
>>741652681God is perfectly just and holy, any violation of his laws results in getting the consequences. Nobody breaks the law and the doesn't suffer the consequences in a good nation. How would God be just if he didn't punish you for breaking his laws and commandments? Any judge who just lets a criminal go free without punishment is not a good judge.
>>741653159The rock is not alive nor did it make itself. Your example is flawed.
>>741653159If God is everything then God is nothing.
>>741653247good and evil do not exist and morals are merely the opinion of the society we live in at the time (often enforced by laws or other punishments)
>>741650828yea then he makes the janny eat it
>>741653228What is this supposed to mean?
>>741648338you can just tell that this was made by some 13 year old girl
>>741653207is He not awesomely and divinely powerful? could He not warp reality such that He could satisfy his sadism without being subservient to the whims of humans? could He not avoid the risk of boredom entirely by cutting the pointless humans out of the equation?
>>741653353kinda sounds like god set up the whole system just so that he could torture people
>>741648338>What vidya stories feature complex morality?Nuclear Option.Should I nuke first or should I nuke faster?
>>741649750sin and evil are not the same thing you stupid pretentious mentally retarded moron
The problem of theodicy does not arise if one admits that God is a neutral and impersonal entity, who does not want to be worshipped or prayed to, but simply exists, the God of Spinoza
>>741653353God knew when placing the forbidden fruit that it would be eaten. Sounds like entrapment to me.
>>741649750>mankind is evilNo we aren't, original sin is retarded.>Calvinist theologyCompletely evil and unChristian.The god of Calvinism is more evil than the worst demon.
>>741653215Yes. But too many use this for spiritual bypassing, or to limit their decision space. "It was fated that I rule" is the slogan of basically every unopposed tyrant for centuries. The Bagavadgita uses the same lesson to reinforce the necessity of a civil war and the caste system. We are both entirely determined and freer than we realize or would like to admit.
>>741653232Under God's eyes you are nothing more than an ape raping another. Her suffering is passing. It goes away, while your sin is eternal.>>741653297God uses evil for good. Open your mind.>>741653364God created that rock. No, I do not blame you for creating a gun. I blame the person using the gun in the name of evil.>>741653454How do you really know the true horrors of war if you haven't experience it? Let's say you are born in a world without war, yet you have free will. Let's say in this world you have the power to make war, to profit tremendously. A person who experienced war will never start one. One that ignores the true horrors of war might the tempted to start one, after all, he will not experience it at all.
>>741653229So it's just punishment for punishment sake. Sure, God could just not create evil and thus remove any need for hell or trials, even if trials are unrequired since he knows the outcome anyway, but i can see how an unnecessary existance filled with unnecessary evil he himself made to screw over his own creations is more fun.
>>741651252Does this post imply that yearly seasons arnt in a repeating cycle and the greater cosmos doesn't work in predictable and set patterns/orbits?
Imagine unironically discussing theology on 4chan.
>>741653375This doesn't make sense.
>>741653676>A person who experienced war will never start one.Hitler fought in WWI and still started WWII.
>>741653618We are all guilty of everything, every human being is part of the game, just as a single gas particle cannot say "it is not my fault if the pressure in the container is this high"
>>741653770He did it to protect his people. War was coming to him already. It's not the same. In the world of my example war was never coming, because there is only peace.
>>7416499911. Will there be free will in heaven?2. Will there be evil in heaven?If you answered yes to 1. but no to 2. then you must agree that free will is possible without evil and therefore free will cannot be used to explain the existence of evil.
>>741653676>A person who experienced war will never start onelol you fucking retard
What is the point of forcing yourself to believe in Christianity? is it just fear of nothing after death? if you are born in the west you usually already have western morality which is the only good part of religion, something that brings people together, i don't get why christcucks need circlejerk this hard over their modified jewish belief system that serves as a somewhat decent set of rules for society
Hey God I know you created a flawless perfect realm and stuff but why did you introduce evil to it?>You did thatOh. Well you know everything and can do anything. Why didn't you make a "me" who wouldn't do whatever I did?>To teach you a lessonOh. Couldn't you have made a "me" who already knows that lesson? And all lessons?>You would not be free if I did thatOh. Is that actually better? In theory if I was never free and had no concept of that, I couldn't do evil and there'd be no evil. As it stands you invented evil by proxy of creating something capable of enacting it.>If you were not free you would not truly embody my imageOh. So we're both capable of evil?>No, evil was your doingApparently so, but I also apparently performed evil because I was made in your image. You mention it's imperative I have freedom because you do. Does this not imply freedom and evil are inexorably linked? >Well,Also doesn't it imply you and evil are inexorably linked, like I am? And since I was made in your image? And in order to do that I must be exactly the way I am right now?>I work in mysterious ways>*pops your head open like a grape*>Now go to Hell
>>741653618If mankind isn't evil then we don't need Jesus to save us, and Jesus died that death on the cross for nothing. You're spitting in the face of God, repent.
>>741653676A rock has several uses. A gun's only use is killing. Your example is flawed again.
>>741648338complex morality doesn't even exist in real life
>>741653880Well, Anon. Those people go to hell (away from God's next world). God show both the guy that start wars and the guy that didn't how shit war was. If the guy still choses war then he's a shit human being and belongs in hell.
>>741653752If everything's bright pink then bright pink ceases to be an unique color and just becomes the way stuff looks like as even the concept of color loses its meaning. Same with God.
>>741653676>Under God's eyes you are nothing more than an ape raping another. Her suffering is passing. It goes away, while your sin is eternalI'm not sure I understand how sin can be dismissed in that way while also simultaneously determining whether or not a soul is eternally damned.
>>741650453honestly if the run had such a big fuck up so early god should've just reset and tried for a new pb
>>741653978this god character sounds like he really likes creating people just to torture them
>>741653676What use would i have for knowing the horrors of war if war and the evil you somehow think comfortable people wuld cause never existed?
>>741654006>What is the flood
>>741653635maybe it is fated? who can say otherwise? if you detach yourself from what is "good" or "bad" then the actions we take are just things that compel us to do other actions, or some unknown actions by others that compel us also. yes, some of these actions lead to horrible things, but these are often cancelled out by better things later on.an example would be WW2 itself. millions died in Europe but if it had not of happened, the USA would not have become a superpower and maybe the internet itself would not exist (it was the US military that invented the early versions of it), among many other things that make our lives better everyday.now, the US is objectively speaking a "bad" nation, but so what? what dominant country in history hasn't done terrible things? violence is just a much a part of our evolution as anything else.
>>741653882death is terrifying. simple as.
remember when christians would constantly point to pascal's wager as if its not the most retarded argument possible?what happened to that?
>>741653689Anon, you are on 4chan and I can guarantee you everybody in this thread is a layman in terms of theological thought and philosophy. And it's very clear you just came here to win an argument and feel smarter/smugger at confirming your beliefs/trolling chuds on /v/.If you honestly wanted to engage with these questions, you'd go read what philosophers/priests say about the concept of evil.
>>741653921You are just arguing for the sake or arguing, and I will not be part of your nonsense. >>741654003Like I said. A rapists will rape again, thus he's not trustful enough to go to heaven. A raped girl will be reborn and her suffering erased.>>741654028People torture people. If man choses to stop torturing people forever, torture would disappear that very moment.
>>741654109is hell not torture?
>>741654053Because in heave you still have free will, and warmongers are not welcomed there. If you have felt and seen the suffering of war, yet you still start one for your own selfish reason, then you are not to be trusted with your free will in heaven.
Hello guys, God here! I just do what i want lol
>>741654109>A raped girl will be reborn and her suffering erasedWhat's there to guarantee she won't just be reborn as a victim again and again, getting eternally raped as thanks for being a good person?
>>741653353Any sane, rational concept of justice requires the pu ishment to be proportional to the crime, there is no crime that warrants infinite punishment
>>741654109>suffering only matters in the context of God judging sin (and does not matter otherwise)I think you may be taking the "cattle goyim" Torah stuff too literally.
>>741654174No. Hell is just the eternal absent of God. It's the place God puts those He wishes to ignore forever. He just won't help you ever again. You will forever be free and by yourself. The issue is, others around you will be free and themselves as well.
>>741653586such an idea of god is completely and utterly pointless, being neither useful to society to compel good behavior nor to the curious and inquiring mind because it is still unfalsifiable. you might as well just say 'let's not think about it' and it would be about as useful or purposeful
>>741654109These humans sure are an evil bunch. It'd sure be nice to be an all powerful being that could, say, create humans that are never evil and make a purely good world with my all powerful powers not limited by human logic.
>>741654226What is repentance?
>>741654028misotheism
>>741654275this is heresy and im afraid you are going to be torture in hell for it
If only you fags directly a fraction of this energy to combating Islam.
>>741654183You do not have free will in heaven, for my heaven is your hell therefore the only way heaven can exists as heaven at all is if there is absolutely no free will there.Don't even need to be evil to make your heaven another persons hell. Maybe I just really enjoy dogs and some other person hates dogs due to past trauma. One of us is gonna be disappointed.
>>741654215>What's there to guarantee she won't just be reborn... Trust in God. Faith. >>741654316He can. Now He's filtering the ones using their free will for good, and those for evil.>>741654341You haven't picked a Bible in your life.
>>741653921>A gun's only use is killing.the old colts were designed to be as loud as possible to scare off natives.
>>741654367islamists don't even pretend their shit is coherent
>>741654275>It's the place God puts those He wishes to ignore foreverIt's impossible for God to do that, since God is infinite love and mercy, he loves all of his creations, even the devil. For God to give up on his creations would be for God to not love them anymore, going against his nature.
>>741654183If i have free will, but there's a set of actions i am not allowed to make, then why not just remove free will and make those actions impossible?
>>741654371>You do not have free will in heavenYeah, I forgot you went there already. Free will is God's gift to humanity, and what God's gives can never be taken by anyone.
>>741654384faith is worthless in the world of material.god has had infinite time and infinite power to fix the problem, and yet he hasnt.
>>741654367islam is a dirt religion that only spreads because rich people stuff their mudniggers on boats and then play the victim if nations don't accept a bunch of mudniggers into their country.
>>741654384I've seen what God gets up to. That fucker created childhood leukemia and Martin Shkreli. I have no faith in God to be doing good things.
>>741654431You are allowed to make any action you want. God just doesn't want to exists close to a sinner. You can do all the evil you want, just away from God.>>741654479This material world is passing and meaningless.
>>741654307Exactly, in fact the point is believing that man can determine himself, without having the guarantee that he is doing good, it remains a personal position, is man capable of that? It is not a question that can be answered
>>741653353True, but the punishment for eating an apple without permission would be something like a $5 fine or 15 minutes in jail. Not eternal suffering.
>>741654528if its meaningless, then why do my actions here send me to hell forever?
>>741654384>he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
>>741654426God has no limits, mortal. There is nothing God can not do. If God wants to ignore you forever, forever you will be ignored.>>741654521Are you sure leukemia isn't man made? All these chemicals, drugs, alcohol, so much shit the human consumes daily.
>>741654528Seems like God just wants something to bother himself with, as he could just make humans that never sin. But then he woudln't have anyone to punish.
>>741654539The story of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit never really happened, it was ancient Israelites copying Sumerian creation myths, where the gods also created Humans to tend to their gardens.
>>741654587and this is why you should pay your taxes and give half of your cows to the local noble in the next month to avoid the public lynching which sends you to hell
>>741654621are you saying that man can create something that is not within god's design?
>>741654572The world is meaningless, because it's passing. Your actions are eternal. What you do here on earth reflects what you would do in heaven. >>741654632Maybe. God is eternal, so he can do whatever He wants to pass the time. That small you and I are compared to God.
>>741654528>This material world is passing and meaningless.Then why don't you die and go to a world that has meaning?
>>741654528How do you know all that?
>>741654528I beseech you, my brothers, remain faithful to the earth, and do not believe those who speak to you of otherworldly hopes! Poison-mixers are they, whether they know it or not.
Free will doesn't exist you retards. It would directly go against the law of causality.
>>741654621>God has no limitsThen you think God can commit evil?
>>741654694>are you saying that man can create something that is not within god's design?You can jump off a cliff if you want. God did not made your body able to survive that, but you can do it.
>>741654674It all happened and everyone in Genesis lived for hundreds of years. The genome of man was closer to perfection back then.
>>741654713>What you do here on earth reflects what you would do in heaven.but god already knows the answer to that, so why bother with the test?
>>741654790so jumping off a cliff isn't in god's design?
>>741654713>God is eternal, so he can do whatever He wants to pass the time. That small you and I are compared to God.Sounds like this God fellow has way too much power and too little care. Much like a tyrant. Therefore, the good action would be to depose the tyrant.
>>741648338>atheists calling God "evil"
>>741654765Can, but why would He? >>741654803It would be unfair otherwise. >>741654850Free will, Anon.
>>741654790why did he do that? i think a world where you can jump off cliffs like in a bouncy castle would seem a lot more positive than a world without
>>741648338Epicurus was a retarded faggot and every ruler and intellectual loved him because only real niggas like Plato get killed for saying some real shit.
>>741648338What video game is this
>>741654910So you're saying something as basic as jumping off a cliff is something god didn't account for or recognize would happen?
>>741654910how is it unfair? couldnt god just define things so that its not unfair?hell, couldnt god could create people that fit his rules in the first place.
Didst Thou not often say then, 'I will make you free'? But now Thou hast seen these 'free' men... Didst Thou know that they would at last reject even Thy freedom and would say that 'it is better to be enslaved than to be free'? ... Thou didst crave for a love which should be free, won by Thee, and not based on the servile awe of a slave before a power that has terrified him once and for all.
>>741654910>It would be unfair otherwiseUnfair to whom? The test was made by him and applied to several people made by him that live under circunstances completely preventable by him.
>>741654869>Sounds like this God fellow has way too much power and too little care. Much like a tyrant. Therefore, the good action would be to depose the tyrant.Go for it. It would be easier for an ant to defeat the sun. >>741654952What? Anon, if you jump off a cliff is because:1- You understand it would result on your death2- You do it anyway for whatever reason.God won't save you from your own stupidity, you know?
>>741654905morality is based on subjective terms and in my subjective opinion you are a nigger.
>People still believe fate and free will are mutually exclusiveYou niggas need to read Oedipus Rex
>>741655086but why did he make it so that jumping off a cliff results in your death? could he not have made humans with flight, for example?
>>741654910>but why would He? God created man, man can do evil.I don't know about theology but legally this is a pretty clear case. If you deliberately create a serial killer out of a person then you are just as much responsible for the killings as the killer himself.
>>741655093Morality is objective, and objectively speaking God is the Truth
>>741655040>how is it unfair?Because why skip the test at all? Why are arguing a non-point. Like, let me see if I understand you. Why watch an anime if you already know the ending? I'm trying to understand you.
>>741654972beyond good and evil (2003)
>>741654910>everything anyone could ever or will ever do is part of god's design>but uh f-free w-willthis is a display of shockingly low IQ anon.
>>741655086>It would be easier for an ant to defeat the sun.Standing agaisnt evil is the good choice.
>>741654905but killing brown babies is a good thing
>>741655184Yes, but He didn't. >>741655185Your logic doesn't logic. That's like blaming a gun maker for every man killed by his guns.
>>741655201>Why watch an anime if you already know the ending?because i want to watch it for my own amusement.are you saying that got tortures us in the mortal realm for his own personal amusement?
>>741648338shadow the hedgehog
>>741655201People watch animes for entertainment. Are you suggesting humanity is entertainment for God?
>>741655284so why didn't he?
>>741655086>yes god is evil but he's like superduper strong so ya gotta kneel
>>741655112What if even that will was predetermined in advance?Human beings, as created primordial organisms, have no such thing as free will... They are merely being kept alive in an incomplete state, 'as it is' and 'so that it happens'...
>Epicurus>Literal hedonistic faggot>Argued only the material world exists>Argued life should be about minimizing pain instead of seeking truth
>God is bound by the limits of our concepts of logic and reason>therefore if it doesn't make sense to me he can't exist>therefore i am God
>>741655284God didn't just create guns, he created gunmen.
>>741655237You don't even have a point. >>741655323Man tortures man. God suffers by this. He's not entertained, but free will. >>741655331Why else would have God created humanity if not for his own amusement? Why do *you* do anything at all? For your survival and amusement.
Why do religiontards get so upset at atheists anyways? What does it matter to them if someone else doesn't believe in supernatural shit?
>>741655284
>>741655430>Why else would have God created humanity if not for his own amusement?vile apostasy. repent sinner
>>741655430the point is three times now you've fallen into the "god is not all knowing" trap with something as basic as asserting "jumping off a cliff" is not part of god's design.
>>741655430Couldn't God just Total Recall the experience of humanity into himself to save all the trouble of the actual suffering?
It feels really weird seeing grown adults debating so intensely about shit that was blatantly made up and features power creep to gain advantages over other religions.>nuh-uh MY god also knows everything and can do everything at the same time!>>741655445Everyone is emotionally attached to the things they are conditioned to believe in from a young age. Asking them to question it is asking them to attack themselves. Being snide and insulting just furthers their defensiveness against you.
>>741655339Ask Him. >>741655389God created evil. There is a difference. Ahh but I'm tired of this thread already. It's boring now. You are just going to keep this up intentionally never reaching an agreement.
>>741655395Think of it this way:God makes you a maze and you must get to the end of it, there are multiple paths that get you to the end, it's entirely up to YOU what to do during the maze, what turns you make, if you ever move at all, etc.In Oedipus Rex, it's not that Oedipus was FORCED by Apollo to do what he did, he was never forced to unknowingly kill his own father at the crossroads thus fulfill the prophecy, he killed the man because Oedipus WOULD kill someone by his own free will if they disrespected him, because that's just who he is as a person.
>>741655597getting refuted by actual bible passages as a christcuck must be exhausting lol
>>741655597>creating evil is different from being evil ah shit i said something stupid i'm leavingok
>>741655430You understand you just asserted that God knowingly allows suffering because he's a sadist, right?
>>741655597>Ask Him.how? is this the 'we just don't know' argument again?
>>741655430>Why do *you* do anything at all? For your survival and amusement.By that logic, God operates the same way as humans, which means we can judge him as one would a fellow man. Considering god made everything, knows everything and allows everything evil to happen despite being able to stop it without any difficulty or undesired outcome, then God can only be judged as the world's greatest criminal and therefore not only should he not be obeyed, but also punished.
>>741655639ackshually there is only one path and its telepathically texting his wife's son and saying you bros.
>ITT: People who have never read a Greek classic talk about Philosophy like high school girlsYou niggers need to die.
>>741648338What a good bait thread. Let me contribute, fellow redditirs.
>>741655423seeking the truth as in reading the ancient jewish book? or are you implying i should be star gazing? we are full of questions here
Seeing 4chan go from mocking religion to being full of unironic bible thumpers because they oppose the left wing bullshit infesting media for the past decade and a half by association is surreal.
>>741648338Rance>look at underwear>rape
>>741655741have you ever considered that we might be living in a cave?
>>741655807>ask mathematician if he believes in god>he spews some shit you won't understand>yay he believes in godi mean its either that, lie, or get crucified/excommunicated.
>>741655741A religion that can not be understood by common men is nothing but a scam by its priests to keep power for themselves. This was seen historically in the catholic church for example, and today in various cults.
>>741655423Epicurus wasn't hedonistic in the modern, uncontrolled sense of the word. Assertion that nothing beyond the material world exists remains sensible until proof of such existence is provided. Truth can be sought while also avoiding pain, but avoiding pain is paramount, and anyone who tries to argue against this is lying both to others and themselves. Nothing else matters but the pain when you are enduring a shattered femur.
>>741653471Oh, He's going to destroy everything eventually. Ultimately, the void needs only Lord Moloch.
>>741655876its more that more and more low IQ people are on the site than ever, and they'll believe shit like child leukemia is free will.
>>741655430>Man tortures man. God suffers by thisif it causes him so much pain then why does he not stop it?>He's not entertainedok but i dont watch the anime purely because of free will.if i know that the anime im going to watch sucks ass, then im going to stop watching it once i confirm that it does indeed suck ass.so, if god is not ok with the current state of the world, he is all powerful, AND he loves us, then is it not his moral obligation to fix it?>but free will.if god is all powerful then he can very easily create a world with free will and without the things that cause him pain.we literally had free will in the garden of edin before eating the apple of "hey these things are BAD and EVIL by the way" god could have very easily just not made that apple.
>>741655862Yes, Jesus is the Truth. It's why He says He's the "Word" (Logos). As in He is the Truth, the Principle, Reason itself.
>>741655807>actually pain doesn't even existbased desu
>>741656030At last i truly see! thank you for enlightening me
>>741655973>Nothing else matters but the pain when you are enduring a shattered femur.plenty of people have decided something other than the pain matters when injured. we usually call this heroism.
>>741655931But anon! (a+b^n)/n = x. Therefore, God Exists
>>741648338>evil existsAccording to who? Humans?
>>741655639this makes no sense. is oedipus someone who COULD do something that would not fulfil the prophecy? apparently not, because you claim he WOULD do it, because that's his apparently inviolable nature. there is therefore no maze, but an inevitable straight line, unable to be diverged due to the way god made the man. but if he COULD do it, then the prophecy is nothing but a sham, because a prophecy is only a prophecy if it is inviolable
>>741656012bruh god is a sadist and a masochist at the same time.
the Garden of Eden always boggled my mind>God has to make Eve from Adam's rib because...?>God provides paradise but, for some reason, provides a way to ruin paradise as well, knowing full well ahead of time that Eve is going to bite the apple>even if he didn't know, and Eve still chose to bite it by her own free will, why the fuck punish her for simple curiosity to such an extreme degree?>and beyond that, why punish all their offspring for eternity?
>>741655970Nigger have you ever met a normie who wasn't braindead? What good would it be for everyone to be as versed as a priest? Look at what happened AFTER everyone could read the Bible, cults EVERYWHERE, we need the Catholic Church rooted in tradition in order to actually make sense of the Bible. The Word of God is essentially anti-normie. It saves normies souls, but it doesn't expect normies to try to understand it.
>>741655807>We only say we hate God because we associate him with pain and suffering>But because you think about God and acknowledge him as the one responsible for everything you therefore don't actually hate God because he's also responsible for pleasure. This is Y**H propaganda. Fucking KILL him.
>>741656218It makes sense when you realize God never intended for Adam and Eve to stay in paradise.
>>741656218originally there was a whole hierarchy of angels and demigods in the torah and one day they decided to just erase all of that but keep the stories
>>741656218it is all an allegory according to the christiannot the part about god existing though, because reasons, that part is just arbitrarily real
>>741656182You are a dumb fucking retarded nigger, holy shit.Just fucking read this instead of being a dumb nigger, please.https://www.jstor.org/stable/642354
evil doesn't exist, or at least not by how it is defined by humansour only preception of evil comes from our own flawed senses and ignorant minds
>>741656218>God has to make Eve from Adam's rib because...?because the old testament is proto-occult kino
>>741655931christians love to point to historic scientists and figures believing in god, but conveniently ignore that back then unless you coated all the research you did in a layer of religion you'd just be burned at the stake for being a demonic satan following witch.
>>741656116There are very, very few actual cases of someone fighting through crippling pain to accomplish another goal or being at all concerned about other things because terrible pain is crippling, and acts of heroism that overcome this don't somehow refute the notion that avoiding pain is a higher priority than seeking truth. Nobody would sensibly argue that even the slightest hints of suffering are all terrible, otherwise you'd get ridiculous attitudes like wiping your ass is bad because you will be bored while doing it, but prioritizing truth above all else no matter what opens the route for causing suffering to be seen as justified if it's in service of (alleged) truth.
>>741656331i've already read that and my post is a repost of a repudiation of that easily-dismantled nonsense
>>741656312>i created lifeforms to defy me and they defied me now i am upset how can this be happening
>>741656364>rapes and murders someonedont mind me, im not evil, its only YOUR perception of evil that makes you think im evil!
>>741656406>u--uh yeah I r-r-r-read thatSorry you're black and can't understand anything.
>>741656364So better sense or more wisdom would make torture acceptable?
>>741656405>There are very, very few actual cases of [heroism]that's why its celebrated, rather than expected.
>>741656364suffering of sentient beings is pretty evil to me.
>>741656364If objective morality doesn't exist then one of the concepts that Christianity is built on is wrong.
>>741656238So God wrote down all these rules, then expects everyone to follow them, but for some reason he wrote them down in a super confusing and hard to read manner so now nobody is sure what the rules are and there are multiple competing factions of self-proclaimed rule experts?God sounds like a fucking moron, especially considering he saw all this coming.
>>741656495Certainly, but heroism is usually about self sacrifice and achieving a greater good at the cost to ones self, not truth seeking, and it doesn't counter the notion that avoiding pain is the highest natural priority.
>>741656556
>>741648338>Another off-topic religious debate thread where jews and atheists will yell "Christcuck!" to dismiss anyone who tries to say anything meaningful
>>741656470dodds does not understand that free will cannot exist without the capacity to make other choices. he makes up a strawman of what free will is and attacks people who have a different, correct understanding of it
>>741656553Why can't we simply accept a universal concept of morality based on shared experiences that are known to be common between organisms such as ourselves? I feel like we already pretty much do that with common sense attitudes of right and wrong, don't hit people because you don't want to be hit etc. but philosophers are always so anal about objective vs. subjective morality.
>>741656629I think the bible needs a remake with better pacing and QOLs like a better prose
>>741656660Free Will is not absolute and it exists within fate, that is the most truthful position. And you're a dumb monkey nigger
>>741656617>avoiding pain is the highest natural priority.ackshually reproduction is the highest natural priority.
>>741656719All Gospels have perfect pacing, no fluff at all, and each serves a different purpose of showing Jesus's life.
>>741656686Because if morality isn't objective like it is claimed in the bible via the concept of sin then the bible is objectively wrong.
>>741656724>Free Will is not absolute and it exists within fateyou have simply restated your position. we are still waiting for the explanation as to how
>>741656813the concept of sin isn't in the bible. oops.
>>741656719Can we restore the cut content as post game and also canonize Dante's Inferno as DLC?
Jesus: "Love your neighbor as your brother!"Christfags itt: Fuck you for having a different opinion
I wish I could read minds because I'd love to know if religious people honestly, truly believe in the existence of their deities deep down inside or if they are lying.
>>741648338I wonder if any of the anti-christians ITT have anything negative to say about Judaism or Islam?
>>741656874Dante's Inferno as the first DLC wave and Milton's Paradise as the second
>>741656846>If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
>>741656821>implying you'd understand
hey christfags, isn't using the name of your deity to troll and get the moral high-ground on a mongolian basket weaving forum kinda sacrilegious?
>>741656986>If they're gayYes>If they're a white womanNo
>>741656821he doesn't have an explanation. this is as far as he can articulate the concept. He can't map out the idea that even if the only thing the all knowing all powerful god did, was be the spark that made the big bang, then he would already know literally everything that could and would ever happen. and if he's infallible, then nothing can happen that he didn't already know would happen. He'll gibber something about "yeah just cuz he knew it would happen doesn't mean it wasn't your choice" while completely missing the point. He'll compare it to you rolling a ball down a hill or something, still missing his own point, etc.
>>741656986They're equally as retarded as Christianity, this isn't even a question.
>>741657000so what's sin? where's it defined in the bible?
>>741656629>The Bible is very easy to understandNo such thing as The Bible. There are many books claiming to be the holy bible and scripture of God, but seeing as how many differences exist in the content, the language, the translations, the specific choice of words, even broadly what content it contains, it can not be said there is a truly universally agreed upon singular Bible which people can then interpret for themselves.This also brings up the rather interesting question of "If there an infinite variants of the Bible, and only one of them is correct, how do you know you're reading the correct one?" as for all we know the only correct version might be long lost by now.
>>741657218>Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness
>>741648338>allowing evil to exist temporarily is evilWhy? This is a fundamental assumption of the image that isn't justified.
>>741656629once had a christian tell me>you're not allowed to interpret the bible on your own, if a priest doesnt do it for you then you'll just come to your own self serving conclusion!and i still think about that sometimes.would the all powerful god NOT make his holy texts easy to understand for the common man so that he can read it and say "alright that makes sense"
>>741657268so sin is breaking the law? which law?
>>741657195Then why is christianity the only one you bitch and moan about?
>>741651268frog sex
>>741657329Because we live in the first world you retarded fruit, Christianity is the most popular religion.
>>741648338
>>741657320have you ever heard of the ten commandments
>>741654970Plato wrote the Republic which inspired every authoritarian shithole to ever exist.
>>741657329the money stealing kikes and exploding sand monkeys arent the ones intruding into my hobby and screaming>IF YOU DONT FOLLOW MY SAND NIGGER RELIGION MADE BY THE MONEY STEALING KIKES 2000 YEARS AGO THEN YOU'RE OBJECTIVELY EVIL!!!
>>741657462so commandments are laws? since when?
>>741654905Killing babies reduces suffering in the world.
>>741648338Did Epicurus really posit that "to test us" and Satan are the only possible reasons why evil would exist?
>>741657536>and screamingwhile screaming*
>>741656901The most jaded and carnal christians in the world aren't acting like Christ? Who would have thought?
>>741657329christianity is the reason trump is worshiping israel. jews convinced christians that giving them their own desert shithole will bring jesus back. without christianity and its "god's chosen people" horseshit, jews and shitskins are irrelevant.
>>741657391>Because we live in the first world you retarded fruitHave you taken a look at europe lately? lots of mudslimes invading here recently.and judaism is the religion that western leaders bow down to.>Christianity is the most popular religion.Islam is almost just as popular.So to reiterate, why is christianity the only one you criticize?
>>741657708no one considers Europe "the first world" anymore. We're back to old world, first world, and third world.
>>741657590unfortunately you are going to hell for denying that god's word is law
>>741657665Why would anyone want Jesus back? Isn't that like end of the world stuff?
>>741657665Christian here, I say the Jews can fuck off. Everyone other christian in my group gave me looks for saying it. Let Israel fend for itself and send all the jews to Israel, everyone wins that way.
>>741657850where is it defined that god's word is law? and which of god's words? as that nigga contradicts himself a lot, ya know mostly due to originally being dozens of different entities before some rabbi decided they should just have one god.
>>741654802>This is what Christians actually believe
>>741657904anon its part of your endtimes prophecy that jews are god's chosen people and anyone who stands against them stands against him.
>>741657864yes, nobody really talks about it but the reason christian missionaries exist is because they believe that everyone earth must know about jesus before he can return and do the apocalypse
>>741657971>Atheists actually believe in evolutionI'm laughing.
>>741654905Morality is subjective. According to Christian morality god is evil outside of the fact that he is a god. Might makes right.
>>741657864Christians are deranged cultists anon, what did you expect?
>>741657748Ah, so you're just a dumb amerimutt
>>741657307Evil isn't a necessary element to introduce in your creation if you're an omnipotent, omniscient being. Introducing evil to your creation if you don't need to is evil.Temporarily allowing evil to exist doesn't really mean much either because you can never really make up for tormenting someone.
>>741657995I never said I stand against Israel. Non-interference isn't going against them. Also, all the jews need to be in Israel, as it is their promised land where they belong.
>>741658067you're brown.
>>741651252this post is retarded, the buddhists said the last part first
>>741658037Evolution and Abiogenesis are objective fact, retard. One of the most strongly supported scientific theories on the planet bar none. The burden of proof is on you.>inb4 muh fossil recordsAccounted for. Fuck off.
>>741648338Nice videogame thread, dipshit.I don't believe in god, spirituality or any of that shit. I don't even agree with agnostics who say "well there's no way to know!" because they only apply that perspective to god and the afterlife rather than everything else they actually believe. If I told you I'm Arnold Schwarzenegger with no evidence but "dude trust me" then you'd rightfully dismiss me without any doubt until your mind. What makes god so different?
>>741658112>Non-interference isn't going against themyeah, it is. your endtimes prophecy is literally good (jews) vs evil (everyone else). there's no middle ground or fence sitting.
>>741656986>Judaism>IslamI got plenty to criticize about them in practice. But I actually know Christianity which is why I can tear apart the actual underlying believes as well.
>374 replies>completely off topic religion thread>people aren't being publicly permabanned for this>the thread is still up hours later4chan is dead
>>741657308The parables that Jesus tells are incredibly easy to understand, as is the gospel message. The rest of the Bible is harder to understand, but you don't need 100% correct theology in order to be saved according to Christianity. The pharisees understood the scriptures better than anyone, yet they failed to see their God standing in front of them. Meanwhile the thief on the cross repented in his final moment and was saved. The Philippian jailer converted without knowing anything about the scriptures at all.
>>741648338False premise:the flow chart
>>741658213I choose to believe God instead of science.
>>741657708Because:Christianity is the most popular religion within the first world.It has higher levels of representation in various forms of mediaThe Pope and the institution of the catholic church are widely recognised and actively promote themselvesHas many sects such as Mormonism, Protestantism, Baptism; Satanism and similar cults are just derivatives. It is the one religion most people on this site are familiar with personally and thus more likely to criticise.
>>741657864Because they WANT the world to end.There is a literally a insane doomsday cult working with the government whose stated goal is to revive their dark lord to wipe out human civilization and end the world and they are accomplishing this by killing people. This is normal.
>>741658270>okay we don't say he's all knowing, all powerful, and all-lovingso why call him god?
>>741658112your prophecy literally requires israel to exist
>>741657307>I could stop this child from being killed with literally no cost to myself, but I won't>implying that doesn't make me evil according to any morality worth its shit
>>741657864>>741658027>>741658347>story where the church is actually evilUUUUGGGGGHHHHH another SLOP game made by another SHIT writer.whoever made this shit should be crucified.
>>741658364What part of what I said says that Israel should not exist? Israel should have all of its promised land. I just don't want to be apart of their snobbish assholery.
>>741658432what color is the child
>>741650523>If everything is good, nothing is.this implies that "nothing being good" isn't the desirable outcome here. if you cant have good without bad why create either?
which god was epicurus talking about? zeus?
>>741658467in advocating for non-interference you are directly advocating for israel to stop existing
>>741658476Fair.
>>741655973>Assertion that nothing beyond the material world exists remains sensible until proof of such existence is provided??? Bro, your laws of logic, knowledge, information, mathematics, transcendentals? You and all other epicurean fedora tipping atheists need to read Aristotle’s book on metaphysics, this shit’s been figured out over 2000 years ago.
>>741658081Congratulations, you just made three declarative moral statements without any philosophical justifications.
>>741658435Catholic church is honestly weird and I find it impossible to morally judge. Evangelicals are literally comedically evil. There is no over the top comparison that doesn't suit them.
>>741651138>he made it that was because contrast is necessary.WHY is it necessary why cant any of you christcucks answer that
>>741658264>4chan is dead because>uhhhh>it acts like a normal imageboardwanna complain about the site being dead, go into one of the 4 billion identical shill threads with the same exact posts being made in every one
>>741658347i like the part where before some presbyterian or whatever came up with the rapture after reading numbers for too long (ever) people thought they'd be revived in their restored flesh when the endtimes came, and buried bodies facing east, because that's the direction jesus would come from.
>>741658558I'm advocating for Israel to stand up for themselves and rely on God instead. Israel doesn't need me.
>>741658542the jewish god
>>741655931>>741656045>>741656287Once you understand God correctly, as the necessary order of nature itself, the emotional framework of blame and resentment no longer applies. Do you blame the thorn of a rose for stinging you as you pluck the rose from the dirt, or do you blame yourself for mishandling the flower?
>>741658264religion debate thread isnt really the worst of it because at least its all meaninglessthe actual proof this board is dead is all of the porn and pedo threads that get spammed and not deleted for hoursnot to mention the actual cancer politics threads where people are blatantly advertising sloptubers
>>741658264meanwhile every single ban i've taken this year has been from a thread thats completely ontopic. really makes ya think.
>>741658681Moloch?
>blatant off-topic thread>still up almost an hour and a half later
>>741648338Why not just say that god is extremely powerful but not perfect? What is it with Abrahamics and their obsession with self-insert Mary Sues?
>>741658686>Do you blame the thorn of a rose for stinging you as you pluck the rose from the dirt, or do you blame yourself for mishandling the flower?I would rather roses don't exist.
>>741658617the reason other christcucks look at you weird is because they understand that they are obligated to do everything they can to ensure the existence of israel because it's a precondition for the apocalypse. you are essentially telling them that you don't actually care about the religion you're pretending to share with them.
>>741658686>>741658686>the emotional framework of blame and resentmentis it in the room with you right now?
>>741657260>appeal to majorityIf every single human being on earth thought that 2+2=4 it would not make it so. Truth exists regardless of human fallibility.
>>741658081How would you know if you aren't and never have been an omnipotent being? How can you speak for something you've never been and never will be if you know nothing of it?
>>741658576The Catholic church is not weird, it's transparently satanic and evil.
>>741658760There is no obligation for me to help them militarily. I'll give them the gospel, not military aid.
>>741658809Eh. I can't look at the state of Europe post reformation and be like "Yeah, clearly the catholic church was the issue". It was basically the only thing stopping Europeans from descending into mindless violence.
>>741658686so you fags are just buddhists dressed in jesus skinsuits
>>741658852yes there literally is
>>741658852your holy scriptures quite literally demand you side with israel or you are evil.
>>741658686>Once you understand God correctly, as the necessary order of nature itselfThen Christianity isn't a real religion and God is just the personification of the world's irrationality.
>>741658686>Do you blame the thorn of a rose for stinging you as you pluck the rose from the dirt, or do you blame yourself for mishandling the flower?This is just the free will argument all over again. Plenty of people in the history of the world have died without committing any sin defined in the Bible, and yet it's somehow their fault?>b-but muh original sinWhat a fucking copout. You got me, all those babies who lived for less than a day totally deserved to die.
>>741658752Replace the rose with a lilly and think about it now. >>741658767>is it in the room with you right now?It's God. God is always present. But so is the devil.
>>741658738>I prayed to God as much as I could and my crops still withered! What gives?>Well it just happens that God is not perfect and fucks up sometimes. God says he's sorry about your crops.>That's it! I am no longer worshiping this god! I'll go without or find a new god, and then teach my kids to do the same.Repeat for a few thousand years until either everyone hates God or they've found a new set of gods to pray to instead. It has happened to other gods before.
>>741658568Please define the following words so I ascertain if it's even possible to form a justification you will accept:>fundamental>assumption>temporary>justified>evil>good>omnipotent>omniscient>god>necessary>moral>philosophical
>>741658830>it has to be simple or it isn't trueThis is your mind when christcucking.
>>741658935did you know you can choose to die at any point? you don't need to do anything to yourself physically, you can actively make yourself die just by choosing to do via free will.
>>741649658Ligma balls
>>741658901>>741658919Where does is that said in the bible? Saving their souls is better. Saving them from homosexuality is better than giving them arms and ammunition or fighting their wars for them.
>>741658901>>741658919lmao wait i have no idea about christanity are you guys just memeing to win a 4chan debate or is this real christcuck lore?
>>741658760Christians have existed for 2000 years and only in the past 100 have some using the same moniker pushed for the nation state of Israel, you’ve been fooled by them because you want to be fooled.
>>741650309If free will is real God isn't all knowing. If he knows it all, its all preordained, like a book. You're a character in the book, you think you're acting with your free will in the scope of being a character, but anyone outside the book can see you're on rails.
>>741658992I don't think lilies stab you.
>>741658992You weren't talking about god there, you were talking about a strawman that christfags fall back on where every atheist is just an angry rebellious teenager who hates their parents (god).
The fact this is reaching bump limit is sad
>>741659025you should've read the image
>>741648504if he doesn't care about humanity then why worship him
>>741658803I know the definition of the prefix "omni".
bump it to death This off topic shit needs to go.
>>741659057>>741659048its all in revelations anon
>>741659031>those babies just chose to dieIs that what you're trying to say here? We're born with the concept of survival embedded into us, that much is true, but death? I didn't understand what death was until years after my grandpa died when I was 6. Maybe when you're finally cognizant of it, sure, but not as a small child. And that means there is no fucking way all of the people who died without sin chose to die.
bump
>>741659151>he said while contributing to the bump limit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,society
>>741658919The bible says you have to side with the 1948 established secular nation state of Israel? If I changed my name to Jesus would all Christians have to worship me, you fucking ignorant dog.
why is he like this?
>>741652889>To experience existence.Why?
Secularists won.
>>741658613>4chan is dead because>uhhhh>it acts like a normal imageboardCorrect, you absolute fucking retard.
>>741648338Persona 5 but just the additional Royal storyline. Dr. Maruki had some legit reasoning behind what he did and theres a true moral dilemma there.That royal addition legit salvaged the story for me.
>>741659253Anon, i'm dead serious, you can choose to die and you quite literally will. Try it out.
>>741659252I haven't read revelation...
>>741659294yet EVERY one of those age demographics thinks things that society is getting worse than they ever have, maybe usual for older gens but the youngest gens sharing the sentiment is atypical
>>741659048>>741659057>And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”) And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
>>741659328Ah, you're trolling me. Well fuck, you got me good.
>>741658920>>741658935>and yet it's somehow their fault?I don't believe in the Bible. At least not fully. A baby's death is natural. So is the fact that a drunk might swerve, crash and decapitate everyone on the sidewalk in the process. Every atheist argument boils down to "bad things happen, thus God is bad". If the death of babies were to be removed, you'd whine about cancer. If cancer were to be removed, you'd whine about another illness. And so on it would go until you removed anything bad/negative in this world. Yet, such a place exists. It is called heaven.
>>741659291bro... le free will... yes the creature that transcends biology needs it, now stop asking questions and give another billion to israel
>the nigger paradox
>>741659362>man society is getting worse every year>yeah its because we no longer lie to children so they'll worship a dead jew nailed to a stick>...
what if god is mostly good but he likes to do a little bit of trolling?
>>741659389This doesn't involve me. I'll be long gone.
>>741659446god is not gonna like this post bro...
>>741659390>he thinks free will isn't that powerfulwhy do you doubt your god given gift?
>>741658725I got a warning the other day for telling some retard spamming "WHOS THIS BOOMER AHH UNC DIDDY GUY" in the Bobby Prince thread that his mother should've gotten the abortion for "inciting a flame war".
>>741659446eckshuallually everyone gets revivified for judgement day
>>741649991logic does not apply to an all powerful god. if he is constrained by any rules whatsoever he is by definition not all powerful.
>>741659484He's gonna win anyway. Why bother with anything? Just some casual evangelical stuff to some guys and live a chill life. I just want to chill.
>>741659401>I don't believe in the BibleBut you believe in god and heaven? Do you just pick and choose what to believe to help you sleep at night? There's plenty of uncomfortable truths in the world that are hard to accept, but I'm not just gonna not believe in them because it makes me feel better. You know what, keep living how you wanna live I can't tell you otherwise. Just know that you're lying to yourself and putting your head in the sand.
>>741659435how autistic are you that you think the point of the bible is if it's real or not? the actually important parts of spirituality are in the moral shit and community you dumb faggotbut also you fags that dont think ANY of the spirtual shit is real on ANY level indicates how little you've tried to actually engage with it past just debate, just spend 2 months doing actual meditations and your entire worldview would shift
>>741659596>So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.you are going to hell I'm afraid
>>741659436<"I am that I am.
>>741659629>picking and choosing which parts of the bibble you take seriouslythis just creates an easy out.
>>741659401>Every atheist argument boils down to [Strawmaning]That's just a commonly made argument because its easier to make and argue for since it operates under the hypothetical that god is real, it's not the only argument against god. Another would be that there's practically zero evidence for god's existence. Or that God is contradictoryOr that the bible can't actually be the word of godOr that the bible itself is backwards and only accounts for the values of a single civilization.Or that the bible is contradicted by history
>yeah dude we dont need god we can just create a scientific morality based on reason>*creates the most morally repugnant civilization in human history*
>>741659652This is assuming that I haven't asked God for salvation.
>>741659781denying god is an unforgiveable sin
>>741659629here's all the characteristics of people that lead to a functional society.but they're all bad because this is white supremacy or something and its racist to expect or even ask non-whites to behave this way.
>>741659768>the most morally repugnant civilization in human historythats still religion, it just replaces god with jews.
>>741648338Reminder that Christianity was a Jewish psyop to wreck the Roman Empire by spreading loser slave morality everywhere.All that ayo gibs me dat I deserve everything for nothing cause I suffered more than you mentality still ruining the West? Pure Christian
>>741659608>But you believe in god and heaven? Do you just pick and choose what to believe to help you sleep at nightNTA but God’s existence can be proven beyond all reasonable doubt from reason alone. Plato proved this, Aristotle reinforced it, and Socrates died for it, you are not smarter than these men.
>>741659812Sinning against the Holy Ghost is, actually.
>>741659768>yeah dude we dont need godThe concept of civilization has existed far longer than the concept of abrahamic god.
>>741659531my most recent ban was for me calling out a blatant avatarfag and spammerthe avatarfag was allowed to continue while i got hit with a three day for "posting off topic trash"it was an on topic thread.meanwhile not a single person in this thread is going to get banned.
>>741651138>You wouldn't appreciate good without evil but because you're a retard you aren't even aware of it.Have you experienced Ozempic or other GLP-1 drugs? You can clearly experience the pleasure of being fed without gluttony and feel 0 hunger. But god decided that you must feel hunger and crawl in pain like an african child.So its clearly possible to make it like 1 (fed) and 0 (no need to feed) instead of 1 (fed) and -1 (hungry).
>Just trust the science Bro...We wuz pond scum and lightning strikes n shiet...
>>741659872it's blasphemy against the holy ghost, lacking reverence for god is blasphemy, so im afraid in not being prepared for Armageddon as god commanded you have committed an unforgiveable sin and are going to hell for eternity. unfortunate
>>741659864>god exists because reasons>these men are smarter than you and believed in godThat's appealing to authority. If their arguments are so good, they should stand on their own without you needing to say who came up with them. Tell me then, through reason, why god is real. I'll give you extra credit if you prove the Christian god specifically is real.
>>741659608>Just know that you're lying to yourself How would you know? Have you experienced the other side? The one after death? No? Then we're both left in uncertainty. It's just that, one of us is in a win-win situation, whilst the other is bound for a win-lose option. t. Pascal's triangle or something or other..
>>741648338Jews don't have this problem btw
>>741659727"an easy out" is what you call it if you're just looking to argue, but yeah most people dont actually hold EVERY value from the bible up 100% of the time in their day to day lives, we're humans not fucking machines regulated by the rules of a book we just read. take what works and leave what doesn't, the moral lessons and community and meaning that religion are obviously valuable to society. that ISN'T TO SAY that EVERY religion or EVERY idea from religion is important, muslims are actually insane and so are mormons and jehova witness'christans/catholics are relatively sane in comparison but obviously still have some stupid shit going on within them but just crossing it all out because you don't know how to meditate is retarded
>end of the threadWATCH OUT CHRISTIANS!i posted BIG BOOBS!!!that means you're now feeling BANNED THOUGHTS and need to go cry to your priest about it and beg god for forgiveness or else YOU'LL BURN IN HELL FOREVER!!!!!
>>741660008We'll see.
>>741660154BASED
Almost bump limit, nice job mods! Really earning your $0 an hour paycheck right there!
>>741660180sinning with the expectation that god will forgive you later is also not allowed so you're going to double hell actually
>>741659878the abrahamic god was just the solution to the pagan human sacrifice problem. all paganism leads back to human sacrifice, and all "atheism" just leads to pagan idolatrywhat you expect:>we are rational agents, we don't need a sky daddy to tell us how to be goodwhat you get:>tomahawking that school was justified because they did not believe in my personal political ideology (baal)
>>741660154You're thinking of Puritanism which is a spin off of Protestantism
>>741655916Yes, I am a hikkineet
>>741648504>Dreaming of a past I may have never had>Everything was false and planned>Aching, just a wind-up toy designed to feel>But the tears are real
>>741659752It is well known that the bible has been written/rewritten dozens of times and that an original may or may not exist in a vault in the Vatican (maybe)Thus, I've clearly said that I only partially believe in the revelations of the bible. As there is some text left in there that is not wholly corrupted. But my belief in God is far more complex than the Bibles.
>>741659917There was a guy who was spamming the same disingenuous RE4 Remake webm for weeks while calling it the "Godmake", and the very first time he uploaded it, it had a blatant watermark from an Indian video site on it. Every single time he posted it afterwards it was cropped to hide it, and when I posted the original and linked to the post pointing this out, I would always get a 3 day all boards for "troll posts".
>>741660076>how do you know?Every experience throughout your entire life would show up on a brain scan. Your meditation that god is real, a near death out of body experience, everything. When you die, there is nothing there and no evidence that your thoughts in your brain have gone anywhere either. All your memories, beliefs and experiences are rotting in your skull when you are buried. Show me evidence that there is actually a clone of your brain that shows up somewhere and I'll believe you, but until then, I'm going with the rational conclusion that nothing fucking happens.
>>741660335>the abrahamic god was [actual babble]Japan exists.
>>741660097doubt is natural anon. reasons to doubt, like the bible being full of quite literal bullshit, means trying to use it as a foundation upon which to build anything is self-defeating.
>Judaistic sect added moral dualism FOR WHATEVER REASONWhy did they do it?
>>741660076>Pascal's WagerRelies on the premise that either god is real or isn't real when the truth could be an infinite number of things. What if god actually got cucked out of ruling the universe and its Satan instead? What if following the Bible and Christianity outs you on hell, while not believing in him at all like I'm doing puts you in heaven?
>>741660335>not believing in gods leads to believing in godsHuh.Also, the jews designated specific people as sacrifices to their god during their conquests.
we did it r/christianity! another heckin problematic batch of infidels epicly owned till bump limit!
>>741660335and lets see modern day abrahamic religion has evolved into,>a genuine doomsday cult thats actively working towards the apocalypse>a self serving conquest religion that praises raping children and animals>a group of psychopaths that genuinely believe the world is owed to them and if you say "no, earn your own crap" then you're literally hitler.sure is a major step up from human sacrifice!
>>741660652>>741660076You better be praying to Zeus daily too, because what IF he's real?
>>741660040You expect me to rewrite Aristotle’s book on Metaphysics or Plato’s description on the Eternal Logos in a 4chan post? This is the highest level philosophical question that humanity has ever discovered, if you are honestly looking for the truth I would recommend the aforementioned as well as Thomas Aquinas’ 5 ways. I’m not here to win an argument or denigrate you, just here to show you that many people write off one of humanities greatest philosophical questions too quickly.
>>741659401>Yet, such a place exists. It is called heaven.And the dude doesn't let us live there until we act like fags and tapdance for him. It seems he isn't as good as they says he is. He could have created us already on heaven.
>>741660335"ritual human sacrifice," where it existed, and it definitely was not ubiquitous, was a holdover from being nomadic hunter-gatherers, where population needed to be controlled or the tribe would starve. When tribes successfully transitioned to stable food supplies, they no longer needed to sacrifice humans to ensure the food wasn't depleted. Some realized this, some continued the practice simply because it was traditional.
Actual bump limit for a totally off topic thread. Fucking incredible.
>>741660652Did you live a life of virtue and goodness? Yes or no? Were you a stuck up asshole that completely attributed all of what happened to yourself or did you thank and pray to God sincerely, at least once in your life? Yes or no? There's levels to this shit, but it all brings you back to square one.
>>741660606>any fictional writing EVER being fictional means that there is absolutely zero value to be taken from it
>>741660781>I can't respond because I'm not Plato!whatever. I'm not gonna a bother wasting my time with that shit then if all you have to reccomend it with are vibes alone. Saying that god can be proved with reason is one hell of a claim that got me kind of excited, but if you're just gonna say "read about it" rather than actually give me an argument, I'm not gonna bother.
>>741652643Man what the fuck is it with reddit christians?I don't know a single christian in real life who is into the whole prester LARP thing.Is it an american thing?
>>741660076>>741660652the biggest problem is that pascal's wager only works in a vacuum.>erm you should worship god because what if you're wrong? you go to hell!ok then, what if god DOESNT want people to worship him? what if some dead religion was right? what if those flying spaghetti monster shitposters were correct?what if, what if, what if. you're never going to convince anyone off of what ifs because that can be applied to ANYTHING else.
>>741660904Mods have abandoned this board years ago
>>741660943If you're just going to pick and choose, why keep the bullshit around at all?
>>741660760He's not real. Follow a chart of the origin of religions. Then examine the stories and theories of all the world's religions. You will, with time, see that there is a clear chronology/hierarchy amongst world religions.
>>741661031>if you don't believe in my skydaddy you're a baby!
>>741661031i like how all the meanings had to be swapped with something different to make this work.
>>741661048you're picking and choosing what parts of my post to engage with every reply
>>741660820I seem to remember the part where he did, but someone messed up. Don't you?
>>741661031>Evil is like Candy
>>741661078>follow a chart in the origins of religionGreat now I'm a muslim, thanks asshole.
>>741661167I'm calling you on your bullshit anon. explaining why your premise is faulty. you're upset because you can't convert me or some shit by appealing to pragmatism.
>>741661194>Arab offshoot of a roman offshoot of a hebrew offshoot of a sumerian sect>Origin of religionI'm pretty sure I'm missing a few in between as well.
>>741661031if you say my mommy isn't all-powerful she is going to torture you for eternity
>>741660939>implyingI could flip all the questions in this post to be if you were gay or retarded in your life and it would be just as credible as your assumption that virtue and goodness would land you in heaven.
>>741661029But what if, anything? What if, you study the religions and start realizing that there are unifying symbols among all of them? What if you dig a little deeper instead of philosophizing on empty words?
>>741661170>but someone messed upWhat, you mean the garden of eden? He messed it up himself by putting the apple there and by making a fallible man. Two goddamn mistakes, I guess he isn't all powerful...
>>741661324god, i wish that were me
>>741661031And this still doesn't work lmao Mommy isn't all powerful, she can't make a child that doesn't need to be disciplined.
Daily reminder.
>>741661194If you read the Muslim scripture, you would just be a Christian or Jew whose spiritual practices are not corrupted.
>>741661351>yeah bro just worship EVERY religion because they have similar symbols!what point are you trying to make here?
>>741661503>top threads>none in auto-sage
>>741661337So we're arguing that heaven is where bad people go? I feel like most atheists were told to pray once in their lives and they were so lazy to do so that they began to create the wide and complex philosophies of how and why they should not bother with prayer or God.
>>741661154>>741661159>>741661171>>741661324>>741661459Struck a nerve, huh?
>>741661503kek, i should start playing elin again
>>741648338godcucks will never have an answer to this.to be religious you either have to be so extraordinarily retarded that you can't see how flawed the world is or you are mentally weak and use religion to cope with your own mortality or to fit in with your religious peers/family.
>>741661654it used to only be neglected children who interpreted all response as angry. now its one and a half generations.
>>741661654>yeah bro, god not fixing the problem of evil is EXACTLY the same as a parent not giving a baby candy
>>741661654Don't try to hide behind DBposting to cover up for how retarded your attempt to reframe the OP was.
>>741661365>by making a fallible manWhere does God argue that his creation was insufficient? Again, there's levels to this shit.
>>741661296>you're upset because you can't convert me or some shitthis is what happens when you no longer think you can learn anything, your interoperation of their statements is based fully on assumptions that not even you have formed in any coherent way im not trying to convert you. the closest i've gotten to any kind of "converting" is suggesting meditation. are you going to argue now that meditation isn't scientifically backed? lmao
>>741661635>So we're arguing that heaven is where bad people go?No, I'm arguing that heaven existing in general is an assumption which you cannot prove as fact. If we just bullshit around what comes after death, anything goes because of the lack of evidence.
>>741661761I know there is nothing for me to learn from the bible anon. I've read it.
>>741661654>actually god isnt all-powerful, ownedfuark...
>>741661017I don’t know where you’re at in your knowledge of metaphysics so if make a presupposition that you don’t agree with/understand I would just be rambling. But let’s start, do the laws of logic exist?
>>741661737>Where does God argue that his creation was insufficient?Well, you said "oh there was a perfect place with no evil, but man ruined it with his free will". Man didn't ruin it since he could still be in the garden of eden even after eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, its on God himself for banishing Adam.
Jiren is stronger than your skydaddy, now KNEEL.
Good thread. Until next time /v/!
>>741661826picking and choosing again what to engage withnotice how you want to keep arguing the invalidity of christian theology despite no one responding back attempting to validate it? what's your perspective on meditation? is it bullshit?
>>741661170so why would god create adam if he knew that he was going to do the original sin
>>741661031>be born as a baby with an excruciating incurable genetic illness>"shouldnt have eaten the metaphorical candy bro. death builds character."
This site is so embarassing when it comes to things like this.
>>741661867I don't believe that a preposition is either true or false in a binary sense, but other than that the other two sound good.
>>741661964>be full of shit>get called on it>noooo you have to call me on all my shitthe point is everything you think can be learned from the bible was not invented by the bible. I noticed how you didn't acknowledge >>741659832 at all. As that's critical race theory taking everything that leads to a healthy and functional civilization and saying its bad.
>>741661956>>741662094>christcuck loses all thread>has to resort to posting reddit atheistslol
>>741661920If I give you the ability to touch an electric fence, but tell you it is a big no no. Then you proceed to touch it. It is my fault? You were given a choice. You chose. The choice had consequences. Thus, God made another choice. Which led to billions of choices. Yet, the first chouce was validated simply by the fact that it did, in fact, mean a lot. And it was made by man.
>>741661928JIREN FUARKING LOST.
>get before>start posting fedoraEverytime. It's like clockwork.Well I wouldn't wanna be a dork like these guys so I guess I believe in god now.
>consneeds and breaks out the fedora folderKWAB
>>741662185You're quoting 2 different anons. We just had the same idea.
>>741661956>>741662094Dawkins won. Hitchens won. Militant Atheism won. Religion is steadily on the decline.
>>741662209He TANKED that.
>>741662009>be baby>born in excruciating pain>only know a cold, harsh, and sterile hospital for your few weeks on earth.>there is no mama, there is no papa, simply masked men hovering over you from time to time>die and pop into heaven>upgraded to mature comprehension and thinking>"uh yeah sorry about all that pain and suffering bro, its just like, free will. im an all powerful god but there's nothing i could do about it. but hey im all loving so thats nice!">suddenly filled with immeasurable wrath>pop into hell because thats a sinthis is good and holy according to christians.
>>741662138>still doesnt engage in the one question ive repeated every postfuck i thought you were a real human at first but alas just like the off topic politics threads im starting to suspect you're just an indian just trying to argue endlessly i imagine the meditation shit is a touchy subject, namaste, may you be better than this
>>741662193So God can't create a fence that doesn't electrify me? The problem here is that you want to affirm that he wants to test your free will while affirming he is omniscient. If he has the foreknowledge of your decisions, you don't have free will, and he could simply have made you in a way that you don't need to pass through these tests and performs exactly how he wants.
>>741662261doesnt change the fact that you lost all thread and has to resort to reddit atheists.
>>741662335>He TA-KABOOM!
>>741662276Bet that's what they were saying during Weimar. Guess the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion were true after all. Only a few more steps for the Zionist before their Antichrist arrives.
>>741662349Except I have. At the onset. The bible is full of shit. as in there is a lot of shit in it. The things it cribbed from other religions are better served, described, and explained by those religions. The bible is useless.
>God is against human sacrificeAnd what was Jesus all about? Apart from him, there's multiple instances of war captures being dedicated to him.An example would be the fall of Jericho and how all but Rahab and her household were dedicated to god.>Joshua 6:17 NRSVUE>The city and all that is in it shall be devoted to the Lord for destruction. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall live because she hid the messengers we sent.
>>741662209>>741661928Dark Slash mogs him
>I HATE EVIL>*creates evil*god works in mysterious ways...
>>741662413I didn't lose. We just had a conversation. What do you mean lose? I don't feel like I miss anything. We just exchanged ideas and now part in peace. Onky way one of us could lose is if Pascal's wager was trie after aĺl. But let's hope it is not.
>>741662645see >>741661029
>>741662349I'll even go a step further and say the bible is worse than useless because due to how much abject bullshit it is in it, it taints anything that might be useful in it, even concepts that are proven that it stole from other sources.Whining that I don't talk with you about meditation doesn't change this, it just makes you look butthurt that your premise is just flatly rejected.
>>741662564He's just like me.
ENTER
>>741662697That's what I was implying. You reddit types should know better with all that intelligence and what not.
>>741662821S-Spencer sama!? I kneel! I squeal! My SkyWizard isn't real!
>>741662881>UR REDDIT!i accept your concession
>>741648338https://jumpshare.com/share/07QF8XQwqHQxzP6Wg0r0!!!FACT!!!
>>741662821>
>>741648338>Could God have created a universe without free-will but without evil>Yes>Then why didn't he?>Free willThis makes atheists really mad for some reason.
>>741662557>And what was Jesus all aboutNot a sacrifice to God, any basic Christian will tell you he died for us not God, and it wasn’t a good thing until it was redeemed by the resurrection.>Apart from him, there's multiple instances of war captures being dedicated to himDedication in this instance means according to the command. The destruction of canaan wasn’t ceremonial, it was pragmatic.
>>741663528so he's not all loving, then?
