https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/tim-sweeney-on-the-future-of-games-ai-and-whether-valve-will-ever-join-forces-with-epic-its-now-clear-that-nobodys-going-to-end-up-with-an-absolute-monopoly/>It's unfortunate that so many developers now are put into this position. If you want to launch a game, and get it as widely publicized as possible, you've got to put it on Steam so people can wish list it, and if you want to play it on Steam, then you have to get this Scarlet Letter of AI attached to your product, and now there is a hater community trying to kill the game.>I think it's really irresponsible of Valve. They shouldn't do it, because it makes it much, much, much harder for a game developer to have a chance of success. You have to choose from either not using tools that can make you way more productive, and probably failing due to competition that does. He's right, you know.
>>741854840Sweeney would sell you a pig in a poke if he could. Can't trust this guy.
>>741854840>He's wrong, you know.Ftfy.
>>741854840>*hides your AI slop game*nothing personnel Timmy
>>741854840come on, this guy is so buttblasted by the fat yacht man that Gabe could post the full cure to cancer for free and Timmy would rush to post>this is very irresponsible of Newell, why wouldn't he think of the pharma companies?
>>741855237NOOO YOU BLOODY FACKIN REDEEM THE AISLOP BENCHODE
>>741854840Yeah he's right. Valve is pro-consumer and prevents devs from trying to lie to me. That's why the industry seethes and moans about steam and hires shills to defame valve
>>741854840>Scarlet Letter of AIoh no someone made a thread on the forums, we're ruined!
>>741854840>You have to choose from either not using tools that can make you way more productive, and probably failing due to competition that doesHow does the competition succeed if>there is a hater community trying to kill the gameUnless I'm misreading this it just seems contradictory. You're telling me that if you use AI people will try to kill your game, but if you don't people will magically not do the same to competitors that use AI?
>>741854840>Timmy Seethney
>>741855237I will finally be able to browse demos again?
>>741855029spbp
>>741854840I can't wait for the day when Tim is walking about Gabe on a hot day, and Gabe bends over to pick up some litter on the sidewalk, and he lets out a noxious fart. And then Tim's face peels off from the fumes.
>allows consumers to make their own decisions with transparency of informationThe audacity
More transparency is better, they should also force devs to show who funded them and if the game contains political messaging
>>741854840>it's unfortunateFor whom? Not for me, that's for sure.Faggot.
>it's so harmful to force people to disclose if they're putting shit in the food they're selling. Don't they know how much it hurts peoples chance of selling their food products if they have to have a big warning that the food has shit in it?
>>741854840A true contrarian.
>>741854840>Scarlet Letter of AINow there's an idea...
>>741854840>hater communityChuds have too much power.
>>741855427New devs don't have an army of glazers. Look at silk song. A mid game that got glazed to the moon. Or Mina the hollower. New devs are being fettered by the industry at large at the moment because of the big companies getting a bloody nose this year.
>>741854840Why does Steam live RENT FUCKING FREE in this man's head???
>>741854840Sweeney is spiritually Indian.
>>741855925It's like his entire personality revolves around doing the opposite of gabe who never thinks about him at all
>>741855925>Why does Steam live RENT FUCKING FREE in this man's head???Take a wild guess.
>>741855925Because, like Apple and Google, it is a monopoly that harms developers.
>>741854840if everyone loved AI this wouldn't be an issue, as a small community wouldn't affect sales
>>741855434beat me to itdoes this nigger ever stop talking about steam
>>741854840It will never get through this braindead retards head that the consumer matters more than the developer>BUT AI DISCLOSURE IS LE BAD FOR THE DEVELOPER???Ok? But it's good for me? Fuck do I care about the developer?Same shit with his 30% cut garbage>B-BUT ITS LE BAD FOR DEVELOPEROk? I don't care?
>They shouldn't do it, because it makes it much, much, much harder for a game developer to have a chance of success. You have to choose from either not using tools that can make you way more productive, and probably failing due to competition that does.Depends entirely on the context of how it's utilized. If it's using AI to streamline daily managerial and housekeeping tasks that eat up time and slow down workflow. Then who gives a fuck, literally every industry is on board with that. But I have no doubt in my mind that Timmy is 100% talking about how AI should be used in every facet of product design
Nobody will miss Tim Swiney when he dies. All he fucking does is seethe and shit his pants over everything Steam does, because he can't get his jealousy in check. What an annoying faggot. Go work on your garbage store instead, retard
Just use AI that's good enough that no one can tell and then don't disclose it.
I would personally finance another yacht for Gabe and go into debt, ruining my credit score, before even considering giving a penny to tim sweeney.
>>741856029>Because, like Apple and Google, it is a monopoly that harms developers.
steam has ai disclosures because of customer demand, something sweeney wouldn't know anything about
>>741856029It's not a monopoli though. There is barely any barrier to entry in making a shop. Every big company did it.all of them failed though because everyone sucks compare to steam.
>>741854840Ok Timmy maybe you could use AI to make your storefront not garbage. Right?
what if there were tiers to the ai disclosure like steam deck ratings?like>only used AI for promotional material (yellow)>only used AI for localization(green)>used AI for vibe coding (red)
>>741854840A good morning to you sir.
>>741854840>consumers hate AI art>should we stop making AI art?>No.>We should simply be permitted to lie about its inclusion so that we do not suffer any consequences from doing a thing our customers don't want us to doimagine this in any other situationImagine building contractors determined it was cheaper to use cotton candy instead of insulation when building homes and demanded the ability to lie to their customers about whether they were installing proper fiberglass insulation or sugar floss in people's attics. People would fucking shoot them.
Reminder that xbox and ps5 both take 30% cuts and are far closer to being monopolies than steam is simply by being two closed ecosystems which steam is not and has never been
Do you think Tim would whine and fard and shid himself every day if Epic had a monopoly on digital distribution? I doubt it.
>>741854840Sweeney is only having a melty because it's too late to take out all the AI slop from Unreal Engine games, which means all games made using that engine will need AI disclosure on their Steam page.
>>741854840>Informing your customers is wrong!Wow now I really want to use Epic.
If they didn't disclose it their refund server would be working 24/7
>>741856468It could theoretically work for first two but not the last one, you can't verifiably prove a game contains AI generated code unless you actually look into the code itself. Unless you can spot AI code through graphics itself but I doubt that's possible.
>>741856545At least both Microsoft and Sony have the decency to subsidize their hardware unlike Valve.
>>741855925>faggot journalist asks Sweeney a question about Valve>he answers it>WOAH STEAM IS RENT FREE IN HIS HEAD XXXDDDD
>>741856613just an examplevalve would be the ones to decide what is and isn't ai slop i spose
>>741854840Tim Sweeney is a spiteful mutant
>>741854840when i look at his face i always giggle like a school girl i just cant hate him no matter what he says. i wish i could see tim sweeneys silly face everyday
>>741854840"I don't want my own inadequacies to be showcased on the product page"-Timothey SwindlerWhy the fuck do we care about what this guy thinks? Oh right, we dont.
>>741854840>truth and feedback is badfuck offtotal transparency on everything, especially governmentThese fucking communists with their overreach piss me off
He really does have a face and overall demeanor that just exudes, greasy schmuck.
>>741856651Ur right, he also never wrote multiple steam seethe tweets on xitter.
>>741854840So he's saying that EGS doesn't disclaim it's AI games?Sween y dies it again, he shows how he despises the actual customer.
>>741856632?Microsoft and Sony subsidize their consoles solely because it is a closed ecosystem. They make more than enough money to recoup the losses by limiting your purchasing choices and charging you for online functionality
>>741856849he's just a socially stunted autist hence why his rationale is so retarded
>Tim Sweeney on allergen information:>It's unfortunate that so many food companies now are put in this position. If you want to put it on store shelves then you have to get this scarlet letter of contains peanuts and shellfish attached to your product, and now there is a hater community trying to kill your food.
>>741856939Let's not pretend failed normalfags like sweeny could ever measure up to the actual autist and wizards here. He's beneath the average anon.
>>741857035ai is not going to kill you and devs use it anyway and when they get caught they say its left over assets from development that they were going to replace. developers shouldn't be punished by crazy people for using modern tools
what if a game has a toggle for whether to use AI-voiced dialogue or not? does the game still get AI tag on steam?
will all games made with unreal E6 be forced to use an AI tag on steam?
>>741857319the files contain AI generated content.and was made using ai generated tools.so yes.
Reminder that Tim is our friend, he fights for freedom. The app store monopolies were broken thanks to him.
>>741857224Why should customers pay money for a dev pushing AI button? I can press AI button back home for free.
why is this nigger with a failing business telling anyone else what to do?
This retard seriously needs to shut up with his turbo L takes. If I don't want to pay money for AI slop then I have that right no matter whether he thinks it's fair or not. Put your AI slop on EGS, you don't have to disclose AI use there.
>>741857394Waiting for him to break up Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo monopolies next. Chop chop remote chewin' doggy!
>>741857394why does he want to kill all games
>>741857492>failing businessFortnite is literally more popular than any game on Steam.
Starsector is hugely popular and it comes from buying through his janky website Devs pick steam because they're lazy
If AI didn't matter, then the filter wouldn't matter either. Luddites won.
>>741857120this nigger climbed a tree during an interview and collects rocks
>>741854840Actually Steam is way ahead of the curve in realizing how bad it is for people to not know when something they're looking at is made with AI or not. Only AI-generated assets actually require a disclaimer, devs are free to use assistive tools as much as they want. It's purely a matter of transparency and it's up to the user what comes after that. Tim says it's irresponsible but really it's due diligence on a level that Google and the likes won't reach for a long time.
>>741857717Forced autism
>>741857742>Actually Steam is way ahead of the curve in realizing how bad it is for people to not know when something they're looking at is made with AI or not.Nah, Valve is just covering their asses from future copyright lawsuits and disputes.
>>741857571and they're still losing money despite the revenue that brings incurious, huh?if you take fortnite away timmy's lemonade stand is solidly in the redand he wants steam to become just like the part in the red that makes no fucking money
>>741857492remember when he was caring so much about developers he was slaving them in crunch while collecting billions off fortnite
>>741854840He's wrong because we still have to get distinctions on how much people make use of AI to write their projects.There are literal low IQ retards that delegates the entire project to it in order to shit out products fast.Then there are actual programmers that just see it as a tool to further increase what they already know.Now imagine which kind is flooding the market with products of questionable quality.
They're literally not releasing GTA 6 for PC on launch because of this and people still think Tim Sweeney is in the wrong.
>>741855925He's livid that he came too late to the PC industry because Valve came first.Doesn't matter that there was a time with Fortnite when he was swimming in literal infinite money.
>>741858286rockstar used to have their own launcher (who the fuck knows if they still do because what kind of retard plays rockstar games lmao), they wouldnt have to use steam lil timmie
>>741854840>you cant tell the consumer there's plastic in their rice! It's unethical! Think of the poor Chinese rice farmer struggling to make a livingFuck off
>>741854840NOOOO DONT FILTER MY AI SLOP ENGINE
Gaben is just letting them see how the lion's share of video games are already made with AI tools. Devs are lazy slackers and they've been cheating, they're just crying that some retard could use Claude to pump out slop that ends up indistinguishable from verified Quality Ubislop Product.
>>741854840>don't want to see a game with "woke">check for relevant tags to filter out>don't want to see ai slop>filter it out>this is badFuck off Timmy.
>>741857717ostentatious autism. Anon jacked off to tile patterns. Let's see sweenbean even come close to measuring up to his betters.
>>741858286what the fuck are you talking about
>>741858286Oh...OH NYOOO nyot GTA VI!?
>>741858594Most games have been in development for longer than AI has been a tool for the purpose of developing video games.
>>741858768GTA 6 is full of AI generated assets that they don't want to declare publicly
>>741858286GTA 6 is delayed on PC like all rockstar games are because data has shown their fans will buy the game twice. It has nothing to do with AI
>>741855237Enjoy seeing zero games when "ai slop" in future games will become mainstream, there are already triple A devs starting to use it, let alone indies People are going to seethe for a bit and then just lay down and take it up the ass like they normally do when something happens that they don't like
>>741859139Not playing new video games is an option on PC. You have too many games to play anyway.
>>741859139>People are going to seethe for a bit and then just lay down and take it up the ass like they normally doExcept game prices in PC have lowered and people play older games instead of buying new ones. There is a price ceiling for video gaming in general after which consumers will simply opt out entirely and go back to drinking booze at bars because its now cheaper than video games.
>>741858331He didn't came late, he actively ignored it and pretend consoles were the futureThen steam started making the big bucks and now feels entitled to a cut of the action without putting an ounce of effort
Yes I agree with him and he's correct.Valve is basically giving more ammo and fuel to the histrionic haters,when the reality is that game devs have use AI-assisted (computer assisted) tools in one form or another for many years, even before LLMs.
>>741859578>Well achkchually CTRL+F was AI all along, take that luddites!When the AI bubble pops the threads of laughing at you poop golems will be legendary.
>>741854840I do not really care about AI, but I do care about content categorization and archival. Those autists tagging the broken red lamp in the background of a gangbang on booru sites are the true heroes, that's the aspergic level of detail I want for tags than can be used for discovery, blacklisting and archival alike.
>>741859578>if i get endlessly reductive everything is AI!Great argument sir! Many Izzat for you!
>>741859740>>741859969So you're saying a dev using AI generated textures is grounds to completely dismiss the game, am I understanding that correctly?Because this has been happening for years now.
>>741859578You're the one giving me ammo, I can see you trying to force AI products down my throat and doing your best to avoid me knowing AI was involved and it makes me think you're evil.Devs can use all the AI tools they want, they can even make entire games with 0 human input if they want. I want to know about it before I give them money, rather than finding out afterwards and having to ask for a refund.
>>741859139there's more games made before the first LLM was created than I could realistically play in a lifetime, I'll be fine
>>741858594most people won't disclose AI though, especially coding. every mainstream game uses AI to some capacity so if people will ever start being truthful, vast majority games will just be blurred for you. right now it "punishes" only those who are actually honest about it
>>741860126Don't bother arguing with steam glazers. They aren't solo devs and never will understand that sometimes a person wants to make a video game and doesn't have 6 years and 100 million budget. I find it ironic that valve has a caveat where disclosure of AI code isn't a condition. I only used tripod 3d for low poly skeletal mesh and textures. Learning to code everything from scratch in two years. No claude use whatsoever. But to the anti ai fags I'm a lazybones.
>>741859139>least AI brainraped tranimal poster
>>741860467>But to the anti ai fags I'm a lazybones.Yes. Exactly. And even to the non-anti-ai fags, you're still a lazy piece of shit.
>>741860254A completely hysteric and wrong view of what LLM tools are, you probably think they press a button and a finished game comes out and the humans had no touch in doing any of parts of the whole game besides putting it on game store to sell.
>>741859139>Enjoy seeing zero games when "ai slop" in future games will become mainstreamWhere's the bad part?
>>741860467Nobody will play your game
>>741857571CS2 has a higher player count. Besides the layoffs happened literally because Fortnite's popularity is declining.
>>741857394He looks like s&box sausage people
>>741860584try that again in english please
>>741860584Ok, retard. How about you explain how it's wrong instead of jerking yourself off here despite being completely clueless? Are you saying that there's no way to make a framework that spits out an entire game, assets included, with AI? Fucking luddite retard.I don't give a fucking rats arse whether humans were involved or not, I want to know if AI was used or not. Yes? No? What did it do? It's my business if I'm to give you money.RETARD.
>>741856376>customer demand, something sweeney wouldn't know anything aboutkek
Tim is the same guy who let straight up scam NFT games onto his store of course he will be pissed that devs can't hide their AI use to deceive customers.
>AI IS LIKE... HECKIN LE BAD??? [dilates furiously]Honestly listen to yourselves. You're quite literally on the same team as troons. And for what? Because machines bad? Computers bad? You know you're using a computer RIGHT NOW, right?
>>741854840I've never seen someone so envious of Gaben. Like this Unc is so obsessed about Gaben on Twitter.
>>741860858>Are you saying that there's no way to make a framework that spits out an entire game, assets included, with AI?at that point there's enough effort put into it that you can't say person is using AI to not put any effort into the game.>I want to know if AI was used or not. Yes? No? answer is always yes already. it's not if, but how much.
>>741861121If you can't be fucked to do the work I'm just not going to buy your game. How is this any different from anons saying they won't buy woke shit because they don't want to see it in their games?
>>741861121>le troons out of nowhererent free
>>741861172I DO NOT CARE HOW MUCH EFFORT YOU PUT INTO THE GAME. RETARD. You can put in 0 effort, you can put in infinite effort. I'll still choose to buy it based on whatever aesthetic preferences I have and there's nothing you can do about it.>answer is always yes already. it's not if, but how much.Did you miss the part about "what did it do?" That's just as important as yes or no. I WANT TO KNOW. Do you understand? I WANT TO KNOW. Now shut the fuck up, luddite. I don't want to talk someone this dull.
>>741860858Why does that matter now but it didn't matter when devs use photos as textures instead of creating them from scratch?It didn't matter when they used regular autocomplete during coding, it didn't matter when they copied solutions straight from stackoverflow, it didn't matter when they used store bought assets or reused assets, it didn't matter when their composers remixed or straight up stole older, obscure songs, it still didn't matter, you happily bought and didn't demand to know any of these practices but now all of a sudden you have your panties in a twist over a new boogeyman because you've told you need to hate it.
>>741861376Because it's relevant to my aesthetic preferences, subhuman troglodyte.
You will only have these kind of games anymore. Timmy is a loser though even if he sees the future. His criticism of Valve is stupid too.The dystopia is one of your own making btw
why cry about this when steam doesn't even have a filter for AI? they obviously don't really care or there would be one
>>741861121Insulting a possible consumer of your work never works, it's not a rocket science to understand that to many people usage of AI implies you are cheaping out and singaling that you are not as involved in the creative process of your work as you are making out yourself to be. It doesn't matter that end process is "the same", you didn't actually make it, it's just regurgitated points of data that didn't consist of your thought process but full automation.
>>741855925Fortnite making him billions weekly isn't enough. To him, there should be one gaming billionaire: him. It's like a child throwing a tantrum in a public place simply because the other kid had the toy he wanted.
>>741861365>Did you miss the part about "what did it do?" That's just as important as yes or no. I WANT TO KNOW. Do you understand? I WANT TO KNOW. Now shut the fuck up, luddite. I don't want to talk someone this dull.which the steam disclosure doesn't address. because it pretends any devs avoid using AI during development.>>741861461then don't buy if you don't like aethetics, you can't tell AI art apart from regular art if it isn't obvious. you're just the idiot who will argue gogh is AI slop if someone tells you it's AI
>>741854840Fuck Tim Sweeney and Epic.His fucking company funded two lobbying firms that lobbied against Stop Killing Games.Meanwhile Steam did NOT do any of that shit.
Are there any Steam games generated entirely by AI?
>>741854840>They shouldn't do it, because it makes it much, much, much harder for a game developer to have a chance of successGood. There's no reason there should be 1000 new games released every single day. We have enough games.
>>741861667Oh no the Steam AI disclosure is not perfect! You're literally advocating for not having it at all, fucktard. Please comprehend your own argument first.Also, look up what the word aesthetic means ESL. You clearly don't understand that word.
>>741861770>You're literally advocating for not having it at all, fucktardyes? everyone uses AI, so why would you give people option to lie about it with a filter?
More transparency isn't bad thing. Customers can use it to find out if they are taking a risk on something generic made in a few hours by Claude. Also, tranny/lbgt terrorist groups have been a thing for awhile now. AI sects will be similarly ineffective.
>>741861376I absolutely would like to know if the game I'm considering buying was made by stealing stackoverflow/open source code, old/obscure music or photos as textures. Devs have been sued multiple times over stolen assets and license abuse. Your false equivalence doesn't stand, devs will absolutely hide AI involvement if they can, as they hid the above when they could.
>>741854840sweeney is a goblin
>>741861921>stealing stackoverflow/open source codethe absolute state of luddites
>>741861879If someone lies and gets found out then I can blacklist them as a developer and even their publisher as I have done with 2K games already (For different reasons).RETARD.I want this information, Steam provides me this information and there are multiple different options to handling liars which don't even need to involve Steam. Eat shit.
>>741854840Hey cool stuff man why don't you make a better product or something
>>741862087Do you know what a license is? You aren't allowed to use code, even if it's online to view, unless you comply with the license the code was published under. It's literally illegal
Steam doesn't care about Ai code.
>>741854840This. Is extremely irresponsible and discriminatory. Its like adding a filter option for games with black people in them
>>741862094and steam specifically excludes lots of that information already. so you'll be seething at people who are honest about AI usage despite everyone using it.
>>741862213The trans community remains mindbroken
The reality is that the cat's out of the bag, the algorithms to create LLMs are now known and in the open. Only compute is required which is currently the limiting factor. So even if all data centers were destroyed that still wouldn't stop LLMs from being used going forward, your average gaymen PC can be used to train LLMs and diffusion models.Information data is available and can be trained upon. This will be our future now, whether we like it or not. That's the beast of technology.If you're an artist and don't want your art being trained then you should never make your art visible in a public manner. But after all, isn't the purpose of art to be shown and shared?>>741862260>code all my game with LLMs>pay artists to make the art and UINobody will ever know you used AI and retarded antis will still buy it. Their position is untenable.
>>741862213>copying line of code from stackoverflow is illegalabsolute state.
>this tofu is real meat>we need to lie to the consumer >they can't tell the difference
>>741855824Someone post the blockchain gaming post. That’s always good for a laugh.
>>741854840>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING says fortnite slop producer who kept kids buying subscriptions and shop items through dark patterns and was forced by a court to change it
>just lie and say you never used any AI>if they catch you, just tell them its a placeholder and then update itGet fucked antis
>>741854840Timmy, didn't you lay off 1/3 of your employees not so long ago?
>>741862404>food analogy
>>741862328I ALREADY BUY GAMES THAT DISCLOSE AI USAGE YOU SUBHUMAN FUCKTARD. That doesn't mean anything. If I don't like how AI is used or don't want it to be used at all then that's up to me to choose as I please.You can't just keep saying "but .. but there are some AI usage scenarios which Steam doesn't require disclosing.." (such as AI coding assistant use) and expect me to take your absolutely brain dead argument seriously when the alternative you propose is OBJECTIVELY worse and a complete trash solution. You suck.
fuck this nerd.
>>741854840if there wasn't any disclosure this fag would be seething about the lack of it
>>741861307>can't be fucked to do the workBut the mere act of making the game at all is more work than (You) ever did. AI is just a tool making the process more streamlined. If you're playing a VN and all the character sprites are all AI, then sure, that's lazy. But if youre playing a different game and it looks like a perfectly regular game, and then someone tells you it used AI, why the drama?
>>741856613If you check the credits and it’s mostly jeets, that works well enough for guessing as to whether or not you’re getting AI vibe-coded spaghetti.
>>741855925He's blown an obscene amount of money on exclusives and free games to try luring people into Epic's roach motel and nothing's worked. Borderlands 3 alone was allegedly $145 million
>>741859139Gaymen industry is dead in the water if AI taking all of the hardware anyway
Anti AI fags are so fucking retarded.If AI content was so obvious and low quality, then why you need the dev to tell you its using AI? Just look the game and see if its AI generated
>>741862357>If you're an artist and don't want your art being trainedThing is that when AI bubble pops and everyone switches to using homebrew LLMs instead, then its much easier to sue them for copyright infringement because they obviously trained their own personal AI model with your stuff without permission when they generate similar results. AI art is public domain so right now people using big AI models can't get sued by big corpos. But the AI companies can, Disney already sued Midjourney and has been threatening chinese AI art companies to drop all the Disney-themed prompts.
Customers deserve transparency more than devs deserve sales.
>AAA games will use AI without issues and keep selling bigger and bigger numbers as the AI tools help make video games faster and easier>indie devs, the ones that would benefit the most from using AI would kneecap themselves because they dont want to face the ire of AI haters>Indie gaming will die while AAA devs will thriveThe future is bright, all indie devs should die.
>>741854840Why do AI fags seethe about this? If AI dominance is inevitable then why do you give a fuck if there's a disclosure?
>>741862654AAA devs need all the help they can get with their hundred billion dollar games constantly bombing these days.
>>741862606
>>741862441>forcing Ai users to hire artistsSounds good.
>>741855013fpbp.Never trust Sweeney.
>>741854840Well shit, how did we even sell games before AI?
>>741859139the games released in the 90s alone would be enough to last me for a lifetime. I do not care if every new game becomes AI slop, I'd simply not play them
>>741857394>Tim is our friendI'm not installing Windows and I'm not buying Fortnite skins. Now chew on the remote, Timmy.
>>741862503>I ALREADY BUY GAMES THAT DISCLOSE AI USAGE YOU SUBHUMAN FUCKTARD. nevermind, you're based>>741862615artists didn't ask other artists if they can train themselves on it either. they just call it "inspiration" instead of stealing and that makes it fine.
>>741854840Tim Sweeney is a fool.There's a huge risk associated with AI, which is that it gives scammers the opportunity to deceive your consumers.In the past, it was relatively easy to dismiss a game as "low-budget" or "low-effort" just by looking at it. Today, that's no longer possible. For example, you can generate a "fake" visual novel in two days, using AI-generated sprites and text, and on a store like Steam, it will look 100% legitimate, with the professional quality typically associated with high costs and high professional standards.Hiding the fact that AI was used is EXTREMELY ANTI-CONSUMER. Someone who buys a game like the one in my example and discovers it's just a small and meaningless trash generated by algorithms will feel cheated by the store that sold it to them.No one who truly cares about their customers can tolerate something like this, but guess what... Tim Sweeney can't see things from the consumer's perspective. He's physically incapable of it. Notice that EVERY time he says something, it's from the developer's point of view, that is, the guy who's trying to sell you something, and not from the consumer's point of view.
>>741862615You know you can train LLMs on your own work right?You can use your own voice and art to train LLMs.Everyone is acting like people that use AI are robbing and raping every artist on God's blue Earth.
>>741861307Woke studios aren't lazy. The funnel billions into games that aren't fun and solely exist to send a message at a financial loss. It's called propaganda. Solo devs can't pay another mouth to feed for some skeletal meshes and animations. Elements of which the industry insists on putting up as n a pedestal as the defining criterion of soul in games because real dev talent culture has withered and n the vine. It's no wonder video games keep becoming more like movies/walking simulators.
>>741862719It's just market consolidation, the market will get smaller with less AAA games but in return they'll make more money and sell more.
>>741858286Good. I wish GTA 6 wasn’t being released on anything.
>>741861921>stealing >open source code>stealing open source code>OPEN SOURCE code
>>741862654>Faster and easierThat's the issue? That not enough games are coming out fast enough? It's the opposite. The industry is bloated with trash. Oversaturated. So AI use should drive game prices down right? Since they make it so much easier?
>>741862791They'll have to make the games good first. Unless they sell on console exclusively, those guys will probably buy and trash.
>>741854840>Tim Sweeney: Well, it's not a PR question, it's just a question of adoption of tools, because there's nothing like a prompt-to-game solution on the horizon that anybody expects will work.This actually does work, but only on a small shitty scale. The kinda game that a person makes in 24 hours in a gamejam, can be generated in one prompt with the frontier AI.
>>741862262why shouldn't that should be a filter tho
>>741862874It's very likely possible to build a harness that can spit out a full game of much bigger proportions than that. I'm sure someone will make one eventually, to flood Steam with 1000 games a day like is happening to youtube now.
>>741862765Today you can look up the artists who worked on it. Ai users self report all the time. They aren't trying to hide it like the shills want you to believe.
>>741859139>enjoy not eating shit when shit eating becomes mainstreamis this genuinely how the brain of a zoomer works?
>>741862087>>741862851look up what a GPL license doesyou can in fact steal it and it's illegalif you want to take open source code you can't just put it in closed source shit
>>741862851Depends on the license
sweeney will never win due to his natural hate of the customer.
>>741862784>You know you can train LLMs on your own work right?And why would I ever do that? If I want a copy paste of my old work I push CTRL+C on my keyboard.
>>741862851Do you think that just because something is not locked you're free to steal it? Literal nigger behavior. Of course it tracks for AItards
>>741855925Because he is a fucking loser who wants steam’s billions but is legitimately too stupid to see how to make a good storefront. Like they didn’t have a fucking cart for YEARS
>>741862851This is why "open source" is a shitty term. Most free loicenses are "share alike," so if you're not sharing the code they spit back out alike, then it's "like" stealing but not really.This is why you steal cuck licensed code and churn it back out as GPL3, by the way. Welcome to the commons, dumbass.
>>741859139you're rattled
>>741862543>>741862786>think of le innocent solo devs!I'm sorry faggots but how is this shit any different from when steam greenlight was a thing and these le innocent solo devs were throwing together stock assets and a weeks worth of programming to make shovelware? The use case of AI I see with my own fucking eyes isn't to help the little guy to keep up its to enable the bottom of the barrel game devs nobody would buy from anyways to spam storefronts with garbage.
>>741863051that's indeed the only based way to do iti can't imagine anyone genuinely working under permissive licences
>>741855685this
>>741863074>think of le innocent solo devs!I literally never said that lol. You really only see what you want to see, huh. That's how you never lose arguments, I guess.
>>741863074Making games is a skill, it takes time and effort to get good. You're mad that indie solo devs arent producing masterpieces on their first go. Every indie dev has to make trash before they get good and it doesnt really matter the way they get there to me.
Buy good games. Don't buy bad games. Simple.The use of AI is a non-issue and it's just people wanting to attach themselves to a cause and be "le heckin' good human" retardation.
>>741854840>informing customers about what they're going to purchase is irresponsibleDidn't expect anything else from tim swiney.
The good indie dev would benefit by not getting drowned in an ocean of AI slop
>>741863216Guess what, those devs can disclose their game is trash and we can all just not buy the trash.
>>741861121>Because machines bad? Computers bad?actually because laziness bad and lack of creativity bad, especially when you're designing something you intend to sell
>>741858331Epic is older than Valve
>>741861121>AI IS LIKE... HECKING LE GOOD??? [shits in street]Honestly listen to yourselves. You're quite literally on the same team as indians. And for what? Because creativity bad? Games Bad? You know you're using a computer RIGHT NOW, right?
>>741859139The only games releasing today without AI disclosure are games that are lying about using AI.
>>741855925you say this on a board that has made daily seethe threads about Tim for the past 6+ years and most of them are from VaIvedrones
>>741863228Funny then, how your post attempts to attach itself to a cause and be "le above it all human" retardation.
>>741863074Now are you just saying that any game that uses ai is altogether, inherently a horrible product. At least admit that It's a purity spiral fren. If a solo dev uses ai for skeletal mesh assets, or learned blender/ pays a "3d artist" but the result is the same? Then the only difference is that a 3 year solo dev game with no budget is now a 4 year game with a thousands dollar budget.
>>741863228>Use of corner-cutting tool does not affect the quality of the game.
>>741863387>I-I'm not seething you're seething okay tim
>>741863362Or maybe they don't use AI generated assets. You can buy literally every asset under the sun from unity and UE5 asset stores and those assets were available even 10 years ago before AI generating them became a thing. Even the most lazy developer on the planet doesn't need to use AI.
>>741854840The AI label is completely stupid because AI tools are literally a part of Photoshop now and anyone who uses AI poorly and gets caught deserves it.
>>741863492The entire place and Internet is making fun of your latest big failure, but sure seethe more about something Timmy said a long time ago and make 100 more threads about it
>>741855237I don't see this setting in the search, is this fake? :(
>>741863252Those devs don't release on steam. Steam has shit on the game scene more than anyone else but allowing grifts like heartbound and clicker games to exist. They widened the indie/aaa quality divide more than any company in gaming history
>>741863387>you need to be a valve drone to hate Timmy tencentlollmao even
>>741863492I remember that thread lmao
>>741863492i wonder what you have to do to get banned from ebin chink store, on steam you have to sell your account or do chargebacks or something
>>741863514Do you sell those assets because you're not doing a very good shilling here?
>>741863612>Searching for posts that contain ‘Timmy tencent’. 3499 results found.Jesus
>>741863595I really don't think Steam has anything to do with AAA games becoming this bad.
I'm guessing nobody will buy this game now we know it used the devil's tool called "AI".
>>741863341>as indians.Tim Sweeney is Indian? I still laughed albeit. Well played
>>741863514You cannot not use AI anymore, its in every tool. If you Photoshop you use AI. What about the source code? No one codes without AI anymore
>>741863679>EGS marketer calling someone else a shillThat's fucked, dude.
>>741863690all me btw
>>741863216>You're mad that indie solo devs arent producing masterpieces on their first go15th time's the charm!
>>741863757Ok, write that in the AI disclosure then. The fuck are you explaining this to me for? I'm not gonna write it for you.
>>741854840When will this man learn that in order to actually be successful in the video game industry you have to make video games? You cannot sue and talk your way into having a hit.
>>741862784>AI fags that use AI to make content they can’t make will train AI on content they madewat
>>741863448>Now are you just saying that any game that uses ai is altogether, inherently a horrible product.>At least admit that It's a purity spiral frenIts a purity spiral to use pattern recognition to see that these AI games are largely not worth your time and apply that to other games that use AI? My point here being that this hypothetical "good AI games" have yet to exist. Its nothing but pure garbage being dumped onto storefronts in massive quantities. People correctly use their pattern recognition and throw AI into the same corner of their mind as tags like gacha and don't buy them.
>>741854840>You have to choose from either not using tools that can make you way more productive, and probably failing due to competition that does.The competition that does has to deal with the same "scarlet letter" that you do. Did he really not see the contradiction?
>>741854840>stop having transparency!!Nigger I not only want an AI disclosure, I want a funding disclosure and an early life wikipedia section for every dev that worked on it publicly available. If my privacy is going to get raped for installing modern games it ought to go both ways.
>>741864043Do you know that scene from Euphoria with the anus to mouth pipes?
>>741854840If Tim spent the same time he does bitching about Valve on his own store then maybe it would have half the features and customers as steam lol.
>>741859139>enjoyI will
>>741863703I meant that they lowered the quality bar to zero on both sides by not aggregating anything. So the effects are, thousands of indie games drowning in a crabs in a bucket system of shovelware where no customers can see them, versus 100 aaa/aa games with marketing budgets dominating the platform. Nothing has stifled ingenuity in vidya more than steam.
>>741863514>Even the most lazy developer on the planet doesn't need to use AI.I'm speechless. Alright boys, pack it up. We can't use this incredible cost-cutting, time saving tool that keeps improving every day because some asshole said we already have other tools from 10 years ago. It's over!
>>741863721AI for concept art is possibly the dumbest use of it.
>>741862606If its so good and high quality, why are you afraid of disclosing it?
>>741854840Hes right though. If trannies have to force AI disclosures because they're butthurt. Then they shouldn't whine if we also had Sweet Baby disclosures
>AI is the future tranny>but don't you ever, never ever ever, make devs disclose that it was used
>>741862975Anon they ate tide pods for internet cred. There are no lows zoomers won’t sink to for peer approval.
>>741864242https://youtu.be/HtZtmtiX3Bo?si=tUPA7AlktuBIJrsH
>>741864096I only remember this one
Every non-FOSS these days contains code generated by an LLM, never mind video games. But people only care about superficial things like AI art. Cattle the lot of you
>>741854840AI means making games is easier and thus Steam will be flooded with slop, making sales of these "games" unlikely. what a dumbass argument. same goes for the apps on phones - more apps are being created but less people are using them.
>>741864224The reason AAA games are so shit is because you still buy them no matter how shit they are or how expensive they get. Most of them sell gangbusters on console, so even if Valve didn't allow AAA games unless they meet certain quality standards, they'd still be just as bad and Valve would just lose customers to consoles.All the shit indie games get 0 reviews so they are petty irrelevant since that affords you 0 visibility on Steam.>>741864398That's the one.
>>741864301This is what I don't get with that mentality.If there was nothing wrong with using AI, then categorizing games would be a non issue. Hell, over time, the "AI" tag could even become useless (if all of this AI hype actually works out) since virtually any developer will use it one way or another.Why the fuck is he even concerned about it?
>>741864242You can use it but people have a right to know you used it and not support you.
>>741864080this. exactly this. and TOS presented in full with every single individual point that can result in lost access to a licensed copy needs to be signed off individually before money changes hands.
>>741864258So we're just using leftist argument methods now, are we? Just constantly pretending to be retarded? Forgetting there's already a blind stigma against AI like Tim Sweeney clearly says IN THE VERY FIRST POST of this thread?
>>741864412>he thinks FOSS is free of AI generated code
>>741864224>Nothing has stifled ingenuity in vidya more than steam.everything you are shitting on steam for has been the norm in mobile games for a decade and a half
>>741864412
>>741864519Who gives a shit.
>>741864465Because its primary use case is fraud and Tim loves fraud. His store front is filled with NFT games designed to scam you.
>>741863757I used pirated photoshop and the AI functions don't work on the illegal version. Checkmate, fruitcup.
>>741864096Nope.
I long for the longhouse
>>741864458>That's the one.Oh fucking hell, I honestly didn't know that the hentai was called that, too, since I only ever saved the webm of that scene.For some reason I thought you meant the HBO show and was already thinking "wait, wat" in the back of my head, lel.
>>741854840when is EGS launching their $100 pay to publish model?And no, UEFN is not comparable
>>741864679Here you go >>741864398That's what AI usage looks like.
>>741864519>Using retarded amerimutt directionbrained arguing when confronted AIjeets are truly tiresome and predictable creatures. Next it'll be comparisons to the carriage or photography or perhaps spamming of the word luddite
>>741864412Yeah and even FOSS contains LLM code often, they're just more careful about making it too obvious. I don't love AI as a matter of principle, but are we going to start putting an AI label on everything now? Might as well drop it and judge things on a case by case basis. I do endorse the AI tag on youtube though because there are channels that are nothing but AI slop. It's alright to use AI for graphics and effects if it looks good, but if the entire voiceover and script is AI, fuck off.
>>741859139>enjoy seeing zero future gamesThat means I can finally find old gems I missed, I can't wait!
>>741864519Why would there be a stigma if its so good?
>>741854840God Timmy is such an attention starved faggot lol
>>741863783I don't pick sides. I'm a solo dev launching their first game and call it as I see it. Disclosure of a I. use is a discrimination tactic to keep a boot on indie devs. But they say is to catch bigger companies from being lazy. Guess what? For the last decade the "art director" passes their mood boards and sketches to an "art out sourcing director" who then pays Indians 10 cents to produce the assets. Solo devs can't afford to do this. Which means anti AI use in games is inherently anti competitive discrimination against devs with less money. I don't want steam to survive because of this. It's not like there are a bunch of epic dents compared to the other side of the argument. When I launch my unreal engine game on steam, I lose 35 percent of the net profit. If I publish the same for unreal engine game on epic's store, I only lose 12 percent of the net. I could price my game to be more on steam but that defeats my goal al to make games affordable. Also having zero budget and learning unreal engine for two years while making some unique and fun is not lazy. I been living off of rice and beans for a month trying to crunch it out.
>>741864242Go ahead, use it, but disclose it or enjoy getting banned and losing your 5$ in earnings your slop got
>>741864667>I used pirated photoshop and the AI functions don't work on the illegal version.I have a pre-AI pirated copy of PS but now that I know this, I feel better that I don't have to bother with pirating a newer version. I actually WANTED the AI generative fill/eraser tools. But I ain't paying a sheckel to adobe for it
>>741864923i'd love if underrail had ai voiceover
>>741864965I genuinely don't give a shit. Sorry.
>>741863584>is this fake?It's coming™no but really it's a web browser extension, look it up
>>741864965I. Do not. Care. You are not entitled to my money no matter how hard you worked at your game with AI or without AI.Either sell your game on EGS or some other platform that doesn't require disclosure or disclose it on Steam and have me decide whether I want to buy it or not based on what you wrote in the AI disclosure blurb.
>>741864519>Forgetting there's already a blind stigma against AIWho do you think is to blame for that?It is not a blind stigma when people were literally fired and replaced with bots.Sure the individual as always is horrendously retarded when it comes to be informed about a topic, so for your average joe AI = literally every piece of software with some form of decision-making involved. People are ostracizing old games that used AI for enemies (NOT neural network) simply because the game states the enemies are using AI.Both parties are to blame in this shitshow.We need a narrower kind of AI tags were a user can disclose "how much" AI was involved with videogames, because as of now the tag includes literal slopfest made by jeets that just prompted EVERYTHING, to a professional that just uses it as a tool to enhance productivity.
>>741864579>>741864960More leftist arguments>>741864872Actual 4chan argument
*crickets*
>>741854840Hes right. If GTA6 used AI (it does) people would look the other way. If a single indie Dev used it, psychos would try to burn down his house. Why should AI be only a tool of the already rich and powerful?
>>741865162"Who gives a shit" isn't an argument leftoid.
>>741865162But surely if its so good the stigma wouldn't harm sales, infact if its so good surely people will turn around on it, right?
>>741857224>ai is not going to kill youlmaoeven before ai, there was the Therac-25 incident that they taught about in every basic comp sci class.
>>741865403The goyi- gamers don't need to know. Stop being so entitled.
>>741855237>>741859139
>>741865130I'm still disclosing my ai use in my marketing either way. I have nothing to hide in that regard. I have stuck through it and made something I'm proud of. And valve isn't getting a goddam cent. Even if it means i only sell one copy instead of 100 0000. It's about how deeply I care about the culture of pc games.
>>741865134I meant tags that narrows down how AI was used
>>741854840>LEAVE THE DEVELOPERS ALONEHow does this benefit me as potential customer.
>>741864965You'll disclose your use of AI so that I can have a superior user experience and you'll like it, faggot.
>>741865367This. GTA 6 has used AI, it's a 100% certainty. Will they be required to disclosed this? And if they do will people still buy it?
>>741864519Talking of leftist arguments, a stigma against AI like there's a stigma against black people comitting crime? Is that also an unfair stigma?
>>741865515You can do whatever you want. Like I said. Whatever works for you, dude.
>>741865020It would be fine if an indie game has AI voice acting that isn't too obvious or too inconsistent. It would be dumb to criticize it just because it's AI generated.
>>741865537Kek my favorite (you) of the day. Thanks fren.
>>741854840Instead of screeching about steam all day on xitter like some obsessed schizo you can find here, why can't he focus on fixing his own meme store?
>>741865505The algorithm in question is from the 19th century.
>>741865616Anon... people ARE dumb.People will treat those two cases in the same way:>I used AI to speed error checks in the code and for small algorithm that could be automatized>I used AI for the title, the story, the gameplay, the graphics, the code, the sound, engine, commands pricing and marketing.
On Steam, you have to disclose Ai use when players interact with it while they play. It's a yes or no question on the Steamworks survey. There is no wiggle room for lies.You are free to use Ai to write code.
>>741866003People won't treat those two cases exactly the same, but even if they did that's their choice to make.
>>741865616If the dev used AI in one place, then its only safe and logical to assume he used AI everywhere.
>>741864965Not buying your AI jeet game.
>>741862751But why don't you want to play new games, anon? Only poorfags play old games nowadays.
>>741866113Then Timmy is yet again actnigas an idiotcolor me surprised.
>>741866003I'm using AI to learn enginedev and actually finish it this time, and then I'll do the rest of the game by myself. People will treat this case the same way. I say: filtered.
>>741854840god I hate decels.
>>741866293The truth is that using ai to code is the way of the jeet. That's why corporate boot lickers cling to the purity of assets and art as the defining notion of what makes a good game. It's why game are turning more like bro movies. I used a website for skeletal meshes anon. Every piece of code, level design, everything else I created without any llm tools or guidance. And yet I am the jeet.
>>741866574>People will treat this case the same way.well, not actually. I'm sure you can use AI to write code without disclosing it as long as users wouldn't interact in a meaningful way with it, as >>741866113 said.
>>741866641>using ai to code is the way of the jeetit depends on how much you use it to code, anon.Jeets are infamous for using it for literally everything and not putting an ounce of thought into what they're doing.If you actually knows what you're doing and not delegate to the AI every piece of code you write it'll be fine.AI is legitimately useful for grinding through the error-prone parts of protocol implementation and documentation diving, but you still need to know what you're doing.
>>741854840Go on, put it on your game...
>>741864465https://www.404media.co/the-tokenpocalypse-is-here-companies-are-scrambling-to-stop-spending-so-much-on-ai/AI is turning out to not be that useful and it is actually really expensive to run.
>>741854840I like this man. He gives me the games that have been sitting in my steam wishlist for years for free.
>>741854840Tim Sweeney doesn't miss a chance to be on the side of evil and greed, does he
>>741867080I absolutely respect these facts. I just stand on a position that I understand is not the status quo. I was just pointing out how I feel about not having to disclose ai for code but having to for assets. For me I longed for a better "feeling" game when it comes to tactile use of hand eye coordination. I'm also fatigued by there being mostly third person, open world walking simulators with drip fed serotonin from +.5 percent gear drops. When starfield launched I was so disappointed that I decided no one will make a game for me if I don't do it myself. That and the collapse of Canada meant I needed the pivot out of being a chef and plant roots in an industry that the my government can't destroy. I'm glad that I did but it is thankless work. I'm not saying that Im entitled to people buying my game. I just want to see steam collapse sooner. And without using a.i. assets for some skeletal meshes to chew on and learn animation and game design with, I would never have succeeded in my goal. I'm not trying to defend my opinions so much as trying to get anons to see the bigger picture. The one where if you cared about quality and content of your vidya, then steam is ruining it for everyone.
>>741854840if you use AI correctly you wouldn't need a disclosure because nobody would be able to tell you used it
>>741862087>>741862851most well-informed aijeet
challenge: make an argument that directly addresses what tim sweeneys says about scarlet letters on steam
>>741857394>Reminder that Tim is our friend,How the fuck can you look at this mutt face and not immediately get a fight or flight reflex? He's the perfect mix of ugly and evil.
>>741867965Scarlett letter is an allegorical reference to the discrimination of people. Saying you have to disclose how many black people worked on the game is the same, contextually.
>>741854840the perpetual victim timmy and his dogshit opinions strike againwhy does anyone still listen to what this fraud has to say?its always something negative about valve EVERY SINGLE TIME
>>741867965yeah an emotional "argument" really warrants a well-reasoned response, aditya
>>741854840>using AI makes people hate your game>but somehow, if you don’t use AI, you “fail due to competition that does”sounds like great logic.
>>741866168And it's fine if the developer used AI everywhere. It depends on how extensively the dev used it everywhere. If literally the whole game was AI-generated, it's probably a total piece of shit.
Devs will just lie about not using AI and theres nothing you can do about it.
>>741868425>uses AI to detect your AIslopnothing personnell
>>741868425Shouldn't have to answer the question in the first place.
>>741854840I think AI as a technology is awesome, I hate the big AI corporations and what elites want it for and never thought I'd be considering China the good guys, a lot of the hate AI itself gets is hypocritical and retarded, and people have a right to know what's in a game or how it was made even if I think most are being reactionary midwits about it.It's complicated.
>>741868525The code isn't open source you'll never know
>just eat the bleached chicken and lab grown steaks
Tim Sweeney is a massive cunt
>>741861921holy shit you're so retarded it hurts
>>741859139I haven't played AAA games in over a decade.>>741854840>More productive>Does the virtual equivalent of picking up a random clump of garbage and trying to sell it.
>>741868631a customer has a right to know whether you're relying on inherently unprofitable companies to create your product, which indicates that nothing in your early-access shit will get fixed when the bubble pops
>>741868641Why is china the good guys
>>741854840NOOOOO AIEEE DON'T REVEAL INFO ABOUT THE GAME ON THE STORE PAGE THE CUSTOMERS SHOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS AAAAAAAAAH REVIEWS THAT AREN'T A LITERAL CHECKBOX OF "THIS IS FUN!" I'M GOING INSANE
>>741868641wouldn't be this bad if the average westerner, both normal and billionaire, wasn't so retarded tbdesu
>>741868902Do you rely on a fork or just chose not to eat with your hands?
>>741869198valve should turn those boxes red just for shits and giggles
>>741868902it's only two more weeks until it pops so it doesn't matter.
>>741869303jeets eat with their hands and they love ai as it subsitutes their meager brains
>>741854840Just don't tell anyone you used AI? If they can tell you used it then it probably sucks anyway. If you use it for code which gets compiled to a binary, there's absolutely no way anyone is going to know (even if it's buggy garbage code they'll just assume that you, like nearly all indie devs, are just an illiterate retard programmer)
>>741868973They're open sourcing damn near everything for everyone and undercutting all the major western corporations. Shit would be a lot worse without them and a massive amount of power would be collected purely in the hands of select elites.
>>741869387do they do it before or after they shit rent-free in your brain?
>>741855237will this "hide" Expedition 33?
>>741869484Based
>>741867917>And without using a.i. assets for some skeletal meshes to chew on and learn animation and game design with, I would never have succeeded in my goalSee, anon this is the core difference. I think it's worth pointing out how much this differs from what the average jeet is doing nowadays.There IS a difference in using it to learn and further your knowledge on something vs using to make money fast pls redeem my game.For what it's worth I see what you mean.Hell, i'm using it too at work to speed up tiring tasks that would require me pin-pointing what the fuck is happening on spaghetti code.>steam is ruining it for everyone.it's not really their fault people cannot differentiate between my two previous use cases. If anything, devs are free to put how much they used AI in their products, AND you can just outright say "no" if you never used for anything that the user would interact with in a meaningful way.
>>741869326kek, yellow-black striped would be better for DRMs
Tim only cares about saying things that the bots will react to BTW
>>741867965wow a lot of people are utterly failing the challengemaybe they should use AI tools to help them out a bit
Timmy is just butthurt that every Unreal Engine 6 game will require an AI disclosure since its entire foundation is built on slop.
>>741855013We certainly won't need to have an AI disclosure for ue6 games, because we'll know anyway.
>>741869924tim didn't make an argument
>>741869708Thanks anon. Glad to have real , non reactionary discourse. Have a blessed day.
>>741869590It only works on games that have written AI disclosure text on store page
>>741868902>when the bubble popsNothing will pop the bubble except AI progress slamming into a massive technological wall.
Congrauations to Epic for finally adding User Reviews to Epic.This is something that Steam has had for over 13 years.
>>741855237this is hinduphobic
>sell 10k copies on Steam with a 30% tip + taxLe bad.>sell 200 copies on Epic with 10% tip + taxLe good.
I'm not a snailcat, I blow through tokens like a nigger on crack, but who cares?Some people do not want to play games with AI assets or code in them for whatever reason. So? What's an actual argument against letting them? Just one.
>>741867847>yacht statue: zeroyou probably mixed him up with some fat guy called gabe which is selling you plastic boxes at $1000.
>>741854840>Known AI shill: "actually, telling people you used AI is a bad thing!"Huh huh, okay.
>tfw you'll never play thick fortnite Chun Li on SteamOS because the founders hate each other's gutswe gamers ARE the most abused minority after all
>>741870802weren't they hiring people to expand linux compatbility for easy anti cheat?
>>741870802>the founders hate each other's gutsI don't think Gabe Newell has ever acknowledge Tim Sweeney. This "rivalry" is a one-way street.
>>741870659he have no yacht saar HAHAHA
>>741855685You have to excuse Timmy, he's fully in China's pocket now, and transparency is a big no-no there (which is also why they can't depict ghosts in media)
>>741870659nice try but tim epic sides with microsoft over linuxhe's objectively vile
>>741856632A ps5 is 900 bucks now, dude.
Go away Tim, the best part of UT were community maps/mods, the art and music. The gameplay you just copied from Tribes. Cliffy B is overrated too.But even then you had to cancel UT4 to work on Fortnite which the zoom zooms are aging out of and alpha is all about Roblox. And even Amazon is flooded with AI slop books now, it's not "more productive", it's just cheap.
Blood Rain will use AI.
>>741854840Its pretty telling that him and other publishers want to hide thr disclosure. Its almost as if they know that sane people dont want a product that used the theft nexus machine and burned down 20 hectares of rain forest and drain 20 aquifers to generate a shitty wall texture.
>>741871610>>741871127you have been subverted by steam satan. I pity you. mister Tim is giving free games to children, he is saving our planet from deforestation and is fighting greedy corporate jews to protect your customer rights. he's basically a jesus and santa clause in one person.
>>741872315he's supporting greedy corporate jews by siding against linux and defending consoles
>>741872315Get AI to formulate this as correct English sentences.
>>741871019yeah smth like that, but it might be baiteasy anti cheat is not the issue, Elden Ring and many other MP games use it and aren't blocked on linux, it's on the devs to enable it
>>741872524heterosexual people don't use linux.
>>741872543made you reply. you lost.
>>741872848so you think all of the world's infrastructure is gay yet you still use it?what a curious misdirect, you know not supporting linux and shilling consoles is indefensible so you pivot to a preschool insult
>>741873231a straight person would never write something like that. thanks for confirming my statement.
>>741873550thanks for acknowledging that timmy's indefensiblei could more reason out of a hood nigger than you
>>741859139>Enjoy seeing zero games when "ai slop" in future games will become mainstreamIs this supposed to be a bad thing?
>>741854840Is Tim Sweeny the most pathetic big name in the videogame industry?Like, there might be other who are more greedy, retarded or even evil, but I can't think of no one who is more pathetic than someone who is at the head of one of the most successful companies in the industry that lets a fat american live rent free in his head 24/7 and spend his days on social media seething about it.
>>741873612get more reason*
>>741854840I don't care what your favorite youtuber said
>>741868648i thought AI could do everything but it can't detect other AI?what if we gave it 2 more weeks?
>>741857035I specifically entered this thread to find this picture, thank you.
timmy is a virtue signalling cryptokike that doesn't care about any of the pretentious shit he spouts
>>741857035Is there a hater community actively trying to ruin companies that make food containing peanuts?
>>741854840Where's your SweenMachine if you're so great
He's right, not using AI will mainly fuck over small devsAnd AI is absolutely not lazier than photogrammetry and facescanning, yet nobody harasses AAA companies if they used it, how is having debra wilson face for the 100 time is better than generating a unique character?
>>741854840>this'll kill people by making them compete with others that use AIWon't their competition have to label their games as using AI, thus disadvantaging them?
>>741856468>>used AI for vibe coding (red)kek, no programmer gives a shit about AI and no consumer gives a shit about AI codethe entire AI ethics debate is on the art side
>>741862654>AAA games will use AI without issues and keep selling bigger and bigger numberskek, no one tell him about black ops 7 which is the poster child of the performance of AI in AAA video game development
>>741873635The dude has some massive insecurity where he wants to be a popular cool guy loved by everyone but the more he puts himself out there the more it hurts his image.
>>741876380I give a shit becuse any time anyone in my org uses it I have to then spend days making it not shit.It's worse than stack overflow ever was.t. Principal Software Engineer.
>>741875934No one buys Debra wilson games. Not a real dichotomy.
>>741877028can't stop me nerd, I'll never write a line of boilerplate again
>>741877130I can, and I do, lol.Denial of slop PRs gives me great pleasure.
>>741876380Trust me bro. AI has hit the music plugin devs harder than even Vidya and it is super noticable. Every fucking new plugin is less stable and used way more CPU for no fuckin reason. Complete enshittification if you allow it.
>>741877113Nobody harasses the devs and call for boycotts because of her inclusion, and again i'm talking about calling AI lazy while being completely fine with photogrammetry and facescanning.
>>741877326Not a real dichotomy. People shit on the "make it an actor but uglier" slop all the time.
>>741854840>informing customers is le bad actuallyFuck off, Tim
The goal is to prepare for the fully automated Ai generated game development pipeline that is on the horizon.The human Ai devs of today will soon complain that they can't compete with the robot Ai devs of tomorrow that shit out ten thousand games per day.
>>741877326Also learn what a boycott is, retard. If I refuse to buy something I otherwise would then that counts as a boycott. However, people simply have no interest in buying AI slop to begin with. It's dogshit slop bowl product that people never asked for.
>>741877459it is, and your argument is the proof you're saying that it's ugly not lazy your problem is the result not the method, with AI people problem is the method not the result, AAA studios can afford scanning textures, faces, they can afford to outsource all the assets, solo/indie devs cannot.For example i want to have lots of armor/outfits to make exploration and boss rewards meaningful, i already created the code for them, but if i want to make the 3d assets it would take me months
>>741863721The rule remains the same. If the gameplay is great, it won’t sink it. Especially since none of the assets allegedly made it into the game.
>>741878016If you think AI sloppa isn't ugly you need to get your eyes checked.
>>741877973If you have standards that exclude buying a superior product at a discount because your fee fees are hurt, you are boycotting something.
>>741878161>Superior productHoly fucking cope
>>741878226"If" is a conditional binary.
>>741854840Who cares what opposite-man thinks? He'll just take whichever the opposite stance is of anything Gaben says.
>>741878128>>741878226Then you don't need an AI disclaimer right? it's so obvious that it's ugly right?
>>741878415This
>>741859139fine by me
>>741859139If your game wasn't worth the effort to make, it's not worth the effort to play.
>>741878415That isn't an argument not to have one anyway, though. You are so reddit brained lmao.
>>741861121>Honestly listen to yourselves. You're quite literally on the same team as troons.Yeah man. The troons are right on this one.
>>741854840>people don't like AI>people don't want to buy AIsweeny is retarded yet again, you can't just force people to buy AI slop, he mentions how you can only keep up with AI but didn't he JUST STATE that having AI ruins the chances of your game selling?
>>741878538Just admit that's it's a mental illness you have, it's not about laziness because you're okay with photogrammetry, facescanning, outsourcing, it's not about the result because you need a disclaimer to tell if it's used or not
>>741878718But it would be really good for Timmy's bottom line if you DID buy his AI garbage.
>>741854840Tim couldn’t glow harder if he tried desu.
>>741878718Chance of selling on steam. Which my game is already zero chance since I don't want to contribute to valve.
>>741854840>"Ummm transparency is le bad, ackschually."Yeah, well, I'm gonna redeem the card regardless, and you're not gonna stop me.
>>741878415If it’s not a scarlet letter then disclosure surely wouldn’t make a difference.
>>741870802If your gaming PC is Linux, then you've already accepted that you chose privacy over playing the latest goyslop with malware anticheats
>>741878792All you do is le ebin strawman. Has AI code made anything better or is literally everything less stable and responsive now than it was half a decade ago?
gaben is a dwarf, sweeney is a goblin.hello epic marketer sar!
how long until there's a prompt inside the box, instead of a code?
>>741879021We're talking about art, you don't need to disclose you're using AI code at all because everybody uses it, and yes AI coding is great i was able to make a script in 10 mins for something i needed that i searched the internet for years without finding a solution, i was also able to code the c++ parts of my game in a day and it's working perfectly fine
>>741859139Funny how the only defense AIsloppers have the is the narrative that everyone else is already of with it.
>>741876748He does remind me a bit of Elon Musk.
>>741879565I see. You are fully hooked into the slop machine and divorced from reality. I see now why this makes you emotional.
Which one are you?>uninformed opinions mixed with intense pride>pretending to be retarded
>>741879565>it's working perfectly finebut does it work efficiently? I can see it being helpful to let AI suggest how to solve minor obstacles, but if the whole structure is AI generated, it's garbage for sure
>>741880094it's not like it's a lot it's like 500 lines, maybe it could be done better and simpler but i simply don't want to touch c++ at all, all the things i wanted are working exactly as expected and 0 bugs
>>741880574And consumers just don't wanna touch your game at all. Lmao.
>>741880574Seriously imagine this with anything else, though. "Yeah that part of your food could have probably been made better but I didn't wanna do it. I don't really know what's in it but I didn't see any bugs yet."
>>741854840It's not like the "people" shitting themselves to death over AI can even tell it apart, so that requirement is just hot air.
>>741879979Indifference mixed with desire to see anti-AI troons suffer.
>>741881036Most industrial processes work like that already moron. No game dev bother's doing C level optimization.
>>741881036>food analogy
>>741881248The people operating most industrial processes do in fact know what the fuck is happening. In the real world when something goes wrong it cost a shitload of money. It isn't like coding where you get a million do overs. You are the moron divorced from reality.
>>741880574scale this up to AAA and you get shit like MH Wilds, but no one can deny that AI is a massive help, if you're short on manpower or just need something working without the necessary knowledge to code it
>>741881319I picked that because bugs is funny for both you could say the same shit about fixing a car etc.
>>741881036is the taste good enough for what i paid for? yes? then who the fuck cares, and as i said i tested every single thing and it doesn't have a single problem, maybe a more experienced c++ programmer could have made it 25-50% more efficent to gain like 0.5 more fps but is that worth the months of me learning c++ or hiring someone? nope
>>741881449Have you ever heard of a game engine dimwit?
>>741881557Your game isn't worth the time I would spend earning the money to buy it then. Simple as.
>>741881557Don't bother luddites are REALLY dumb. The average game engine doesn't even support things like esoteric data structs which is how you'd optimize c++.
>>741881806Strictly speaking that's true since your life is worthless lol.
>>741854840i hate his fag remote munching smug face
There's nothing wrong at all with using LLMs for the coding part of a video game, these aren't mission critical programs, especially in your average indie single-player game, why should anyone care?Besides out of resentment or some stupid idea of things being "handcrafted", most people bitching about it can't even understand the code and it's not like they'll ever get to see it.I do agree that it's shitty to use AI art or voice work and most of the time you can tell right away, but just because a game used "AI" is not immediate grounds to dismiss it whole like all the troons want.
>>741881484MH wilds is $70 my game will be like $15 max there's a huge difference in expectations, and i will never release it if it doesn't work at 60 fps fsr quality on something like gtx 1650, it's pretty simple if it's buggy and the performance doesn't match the graphic quality then you absolutely shouldn't buy it
>>741882031So your game is worth less than nothing? Great own retard.
>>741882076just slap on the disclosure and let the users decide if they care or not
>>741882076With Ai voice acting you could do neat things like have the player character be voiced but unique for each playthrough.
>>741882076>I do agree that it's shitty to use AI artWhy? why should i waste months making 3d outfits instead of generating them?
>>741882165You didn't say your time is worth more moron. How fucking stupid are you XDDD
>>741882307Because that's the only way to create with intent, to ensure the things you make look that way for a reason.Without intent, without reasons for why things are the way they are, you can only make meaningless slop.
>>741882368You said my entire life is worth nothing so any amount of time I would have to spend to buy your dogshit slopped together game would inherently be worth less than that. So unless you are claiming I am not able to make 15 dollars then yes your game is worth less than nothing LOL.
>>741882467>Uses digital painting tools>Uses auto gradientsHypocrite moron.
>>741882076Luckily the ai disclosure has you declare exactly what you used ai for.
>>741882545Exactly you are not able to make 15 dollars now that nobody wants to buy your furry diaper porn anymore XD
>>741882467Yeah bro there's a huge amount of intent in the outsourcing studios in india
>>741882550All you do is make false dichotomy, strawman, and lie. The ai slopper really has no excuse for being a lazy faggot.
>>741882550Only AI fags pretend to be so stupid they can't tell the difference between making something with tools, or telling the tools to make the whole thing.>>741882645That's a separate problem.
>me listening to anti-ai fags
>>741882550using tools is not the same as letting AI design details on its own
>>741882250Luddites will mald over it anyways since they can't tell AI apart from non AI.
>>741882639That is some very bizarre projection. Why are you thinking about furry diaper porn?
>>741882703very true saar !
>>741882727>letting AI design details on its ownit doesn't do this
>>741859139Really? Then why are zoom zooms going back to retro?
>>741882658>>741882698>>741882727>I-i-it's just a tool when I use it. Prompting, controlnets, inpainting, etc. somehow isn't using tools.
>>741882853because new games just fucking suck ass regardless of the use of generative ai or not
>>741882749Oh you're definitely one of those twitter artists mad that they lost their income XD
>>741882902Weird how AI was supposed to make people more creative and productive but it only produces.... slopSlop so bad that it leads gamers to go back decades for games.Hope you enjoy playing your AI game with bots and no real players because who needs real players when you could just simulate a fake online playerbase?
>>741883039You are way off. I find AI sloppa disgusting and I hate that everything I use is slower and shittier now as a result.
>>741883041Holy delusion.
>>741854840>ai slop can't succeed on steam and therefore will lose to other ai slop on steam what did he mean by this?
>>741882698It's the exact problem, solo/indie devs can't afford to outsource to create assets to be able to compete with AAA studios and the fact that AAA studios don't get punished for outsourcing but indie devs get punished for using AI to try to compete is the problem, you aren't standing up to the big guy by punishing AI they all can afford outsourcing it's only the small guys that get punished for trying to compete and create anything other than pixelslop.>but muh artistsGuess what those artists can use ai to code all the dream games they want.
>>741883134Stop lying I know you get turned on by things being shitty XD
>>741883183Hey retard, a massive percentage of the best selling games recently have been indie. How are they being punished exactly?
>>741883183>solo/indie devs can't afford to outsource to create assets to be able to compete with AAA studiosWhy the fuck would anyone expect indies to compete with AAA studios, that's retardedLet the AAA studios make saar slop and produce something creative instead.
>>741883041>Weird how AI was supposed to make people more creative and productive but it only produces.... slopno, the games were slop before ai was even on the scene, the games have been slop made by overpaid non-gamer npcs -- who are effectively human-based generative ai -- for at least a decade now.ai gen is a tool, if you want actual art or at least some tasteful smut you have to still put human effort in
>>741857224>ai is not going to kill youyou don't know that
>>741882894using machine learning tools is fine. using deep learning tools is not (for creative tasks). hope that clears it up for you
>>741883234You have no justification for being a lazy tasteless retard.
>>741883353Holy shit you're so stupid. Deep learning just refers to neural nets which is 99% of machine learning.
>>741883041>Hope you enjoy playing your AI game with bots and no real playersfinding 210 people to play UT99 with me is way harder than setting initialbots=210 in the ini file
>>741883412Cope and dilate you got replaced by clankers XD
>>741883450lol, no
>>741883550A robot will literally never replace my job lol.
>>741882550>Changing the size and color of your digital brush and using the zoom tool to carefully paint the details on a face = Grok, draw the rest of the fucking owl for meDumb jeet
>>741883275>>741883312>Friend/streamerslop>Mental illness pixelslopI want to make something that's actually good to play while also having AAA qualities to it, i don't want to rely on garbage shit like fomo or memes
>>741883550i have come here to chew bubblegum and fuck robots and i am all out of gum
>>741883450>for creative tasksConveniently ignored in the reply
>>741883658You're not gonna do that with AI either, because no one with the drive to make a good game wastes their time on 4chan.
>>741883658>Every other indie is streamer slop only my non-existent game is goodYeah you are fucking delusional.
>>741883581What you became a prostitute after the twitter commissions dried up? XD>>741883592Mad that not only are you replaced by clankers you're also replaced by hindoos?
>>741857571when was last time valve had to lay off employees?
>>741883732Luddites don't deserve good faith replies.
>>741883732my car's ecu has a neural net algorithm it uses to determine proper fuel mapping on the fly and if i creatively modify this algorithm to improve the car's performance then i am using genai for a creative task to make my car faster
>>741883790What causes this delusion that AI is going to take everyone else's jobs? Is it just that they can't imagine a job that isn't sitting behind a computer with no real world consequences?
>>741883785Show me 10 solo made games in the last year that sold more than 50k copies that isn't friend/streamerslop or a mental illnessslop
>>741883665Could use a style lora.
>>741882746as is their rightif the market is cool with AI stuff, then the people against it will be too few in number to stop itthat's the free market
>>741883943Not everyone's just your's because you drew diaper furry porn on twitter XD
>>741864965the consumer does not care https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik3deWOVCHI&nor should they ever, it's your problem. not his
>>741883943that's exactly it, there are a bunch of useless keypusher jobs out there that are being threatened by ai but only because the human keyboard drones refuse to learn how to use the tool. their managers do, however, and soon find out that halfd their workforce can be replaced with claude. they're also finding out computers are just as much lazy incompetent lying assholes as the people who make them
>>741883943this website is full of people who can't find jobs because their sector stopped hiring local talent years ago. as any decent marketing firm would know, if they weren't the questionably competent lowest bidder see, decent marketing firms do this thing called 'research'
>>741884009Are you illiterate? The point is the market is going to accept AI because it's not realistic to tell apart AI and non AI games.
>>741883980>Oh yeah name arbitrary amount in arbitrary amount of timeSolo games take a long time to make in case you haven't noticed. There are plenty of good solo games, though. Mortal sin, balatro, CULTIC, inscryption, buckshot roulette all better games than yours will be.
>>741884546Before that shithead deflects I want to applaud you for making a really good list. Fuck that loser.
>>741883982that white robot's "style" is actually controlnetted photographs of my actual car. this one uses screenshots of a car from an old racing game. i try to use as few loras as possible.
>>741883943probably the companies advertising AI with "it can accomplish the same amount of work as X employees!"but to your other point, jobs are not infiniteif an industry gets wiped out by AI or outsourcing, those people have to find some other industry to lifeboat towhich can a) overfill that lifeboat industry harming the people working there by lowering wages, and b) be difficult in the first place when you spent your entire career building your skills for a specialized position
>>741884453which is why the label exists to keep customers informed, yes
>>741884701That's interesting, I thought you were prompting catgirl murder drones from a checkpoint.
>>741884784What makes you think those labels are accurate idiot?
I think he's right that it's irresponsible in that it only punishes people being honest. If it was Valve doing the searching and branding I'd be more positive about it.Expedition 33 right now has zero AI disclosure and they were caught red handed with it.>It was patched out!So that should be said in the AI disclosure section. Used in early stages and removed, with anything missed being patched out. That's how AI disclosure is supposed to work. They're not doing it, everyone knows they used it, they say in interviews they used it, still not on the page, and there's no consequence for it.It's an incentive to be dihonest and nothing else if there's zero penalty for lying.
>>741855013>>741855237>>741855925
>>741884919why would they not be, unless a company is trying to hide their AI use?
>>741858286if this prevents GTA 6 ever being released on PC, I'll nominate Gaben for World Presidente
>>741858286you say that like it's some great loss
>>741884840yeah nah, no real loras at all, i've got some anti-slop negatives in there, but the rest is just controlnet multi-input with like 10 pics of the car in various lighting and angles, and a very descriptive prompt. i've made some of my friends' cars too.it's pretty neat when it's all set up right, but it takes a lot of actual work and most of what i generate is flawed in some way requiring manual correction in krita.
>>741861121Why should I pay money for something an AI shit out? It's worthless.
Use of AI in your game development should hard-lock your game price to $10 with no option of ever going higher.
>>741859139don't threaten me with a good time
>>741862763computers aren't people anon
>>741859139I will enjoy seeing zero in that case because I don't want to fucking buy that shit man, what don't you get? I have enough to never buy ever again if I chose, I just have some faith that there will still be a few creatives with skill instead of asking a machine to make it for them.
