Why do boomer unc games always become so shitty the further you get in them? This game and Gothic are big ones. Have they even played them all the way through?
Hot take but this game has no replay value. Once you've beaten the game once (and at most maybe ONE more time for a Malkavian run), it's too janky to want to play again. Modders had to add a sewers skip for that reason.
>>742091867ISOLATED
>>742091867i only made it through the intro, some of the worst writing ive ever sat through, the rpg mechanics suck, the combat is a joke tooposterchild for "uncslop"
>>742092869>some of the worst writing ive ever sat throughok ill bite, what are the top 5 best writings in videogames?
>>742092869wait til you hear this faggot tells me his "top 5 games"
>>742092940>sure here's a list>HAHA THOSE ARE ALL DOGSHIT!not falling for it unc, go rewatch whatever garbage jos wheadon and other hollywood faggots shat out for you back in the 90s
>>742091867Unc slop sucks a bag of dicks. Uncs prop up this garbage as a humiliation ritual on the rest of society to try and see just how much they can get away with. If you're willing to accept the lie that VTM has any artistic worth, you will accept literally anything, you've already lost
>>742092940Every Obsidian game for instanceUndertale + DeltaruneDisco Elysium
>>742091867you and everyone agreeing with you in this thread is a 40 year old man larping as a teenager.
>>742092869>worst writing ive ever sat throughNo it's notSuch a stupid statement, that and the atmosphere are the only reason to play this game.
>>742093216exactly, there is no reason to play this "game", glad we agree
>>742093247I just told you two reasons, fuck off with your faggy hateboner
>>742093204No im 23 and i got tricked into wasting 7 hours setting up and playing this dogshit by some 30yr old i play games with, never listening to anything he recommends ever again
>>742092521>+1 Humanity
>>742093295I feel sorry for the 30 year old that puts up with you
>>742093065holy shit imagine coping THIS fucking hard lmao
>>742093295im a zoomer and I think you're just a gay faggot
>>742091867You're 100% right but these old faggots on this board will never admit to any of it. They'll play their crusty old shit forever because they're jaded, cynical, and think they are the only authority on quality.This game massively flopped on release because it was dogshit btw. You can throw 50 well-known hollywood jew writers in a room and give them total creative freedom and THIS is what they come up with. Evil can truly never create, only destroy.
Its so pathetic to watch people using this emberassing slang just to try and bait people for attention. I wish mods did their volunteer work for once in a while.
>>742091867please stop using negrobabble
>>742093507Mods stopped caring once they removed the IP counter
>>742092869tpbpI made it to the weird house on the cliff and gave up because it was such a boring slog. The big titty bitch did not make up for the horrendous gameplay.
most of them are LITERALLY unfinished and rushed out before they can make a satisfying latter halfpic related. also see other "masterpiece" games like KOTOR 2 and Xenogears
>>742092521ALONE AND APART
>>742093065If you had good taste, there's no reason you wouldn't list them.You don't, because you already know your taste is dogshit.You have lost, and in such a cowardly way.
>>742092227This game has a ton of replay value, the sewers are pretty late into the game and literally everything else is incredibly fun. Grout's manor is rather late into the game and it's an unforgettable level >>742093860Planescape's last part isn't as good as the first ones but it's very very very far from being as rushed as Xenogears's or Thief TDP. It remains a consistently good title
Can unc explain how the save system is supposed to work in these old games? Why can you just save anywhere and circumvent all challenge?
>742094036>unc who likes jos whedon writing thinks he has tasteyou aren't worth the (you), please go back and jack off to your "dark but tell a joke every 5 minutes" with the other marvelslop enjoyers
>>742094261NTA but unless you can give counterexamples you simply lost
>>742094261Whedon made Firefly and Serenity which that alone is orders of magnitude more artistically relevant than this trash unc slop generic crpg game. Why didn't you reply to that guy btw? You quoted him, but removed a meme arrow as to avoid quoting him directly. But everyone can see what you're doing. Why are you the way that you are?
>>742091867>>742092869>>742093065>>742093489>>742093095you didnt even play the gameyou watched the santa monica tutorial zonethats like reading the first page of crime and punishment and calling dostoevsky a hackfucking embarrassing nigger behaviorthe intro is literally the worst part of the game by a wide margin, every vtmb enjoyer will tell you the same thing, the game opens up the second you hit downtownthe asylum quest alone has more soul than 90% of the rpgs released in the last 15 yearsits a troika game, the same guys who made arcanum, mechanical jank is the price of admissionnobody plays vtmb for the combat you retardsyou play it for the dialogue trees, the writing of ocampo before he got eaten alive by the industryyour combat complains are irrelevantdeus ex combat, fallout 1 combat, planescape torment combat, etcnobody with functioning taste judges these games on their combatyou judge them on the writing and the atmosphere and the choicesvtmb has actual fucking ideas, actual themes about identity and predation and humanity bleeding out of you the entire >uncslop framework is a zoomer cope, you nigger faggots invented this word because you have the attention span of a gnat and cant sit through anything that doesnt hand you a dopamine drip every 30 secondselden ring brain rotyou play a game for 20 minutes, decide the combat doesnt slap, and youre outthen you go on twitter and call it slop so your equally retarded mutual friends can heart your postvtmb came out in 2004it was made by a studio that died making itthe lead writer poured his soul into hollywood and chinatown and the giovanni mansion and didn't even play ityou wouldnt know good writing if it crawled up your urethra and laid eggsyou are the exact demographic this medium got ruined for
>>742094261Based
>>742094480>words words wordsYour game sucks ass if its not interesting within the first 3 hours. Cope.
>>742094480Well I played it for the combat as a Tremere and it was quite fun because the abilities look and feel good. Good combat isn't necessarily complex and skill based, it can be aesthetically rich
>>742094551>>words words wordszoomoid attention span point proven like clockwork, lol, thanks for playing
>>742094480>vtmb came out in 2004>it was made by a studio that died making itGood.
>unc seething
>>742094607and yet it remains a cult classic 22 years later, in 2030 people will still talk about it, remember it fondly, and replay it, and you will keep coping and seething about this fact forever and ever
>>742094598Whatever helps you sleep at night unc. Maybe try another playthrough of this slop, it sure put me to bed.
>>742094670>>742094598
>>742091867I get what you mean with Bloodlines, but I never felt that way with Gothic.
>>742094667No one talks about this game outside of v which is objectively dying. Not even any vg threads that used to have it do so any more. Cult classics are almost always slop because some fags have mental illness and just keep copy pasting phrases from the work for 30 years.
>>742091867Why do 20+ year olds try to use "slang" for people half their age?
>>742093204Tsar bomba level truke
>>742092869TPBP
>>742094761You can't even speak english, retard
>>742094667>uncs picked some crappy old game to circlejerk each other off and pretend they're intellectual and interesting to each otherYou ok bro
>>742094885no cap
Disgraceful behavior. A zoomer with a brain would look upon these posts with secondhand embarrassment.
>>742093204>>74209486919 yo. here. Yeah, I do not cosign these posts
>>742094965>didn't say no cap, unc, sheesh, bussin or anything elselarping
>>742094480>the lead writer poured his soul into hollywood and chinatown and the giovanni mansion and didn't even play itNot surprised because all those areas sucked. You ever hear of playtesting?
>>742094761quality doesnt evaporate because zoomers stopped tweeting about itthe cultural memory of vidya has the half life of a fruit fly now, anything older than 2019 is invisible to the average consoomervg threads are a popularity contest for whatever gacha or live service is currently milking pajeets and chinese teenagers"no general thread = bad game" is genuinely one of the most retarded metricsalso youre conflating the fanbase with the workit has nothing to do with whether the underlying writing is goodyou cant judge art by its worst fans, thats a midwit filter and you fell straight through itstop pretending you have opinions
>>742095004You ok bro?
>>742095043You aren't talking like a zoomer.
>>742095009All these areas were good
>>742095065You ok vro?
>>742095015Your argument was the game had cultural impact. I said it had none, no one knows about this game outside v and its own reddit page nor did it influence any later series of any quality. Nice try to strawman me. Sorry but your favorite game is trash, got no recognition because it was trash, made no impact and will be forgotten once you terminally online millenials die out.
>>742095196No one here actually believes you're under 35 btw
>>742095196Post 3x3
>its THIS easy to BTFO zoomoids and make them SEETHEfucking lmaoyou zoomoids genuinely have nothingyour entire personality is ironic detachment and consoomer brainyou cant love anything sincerely because loving something sincerely means you can be made fun of for itso you preempt it by calling everything slop, uncslop, etcits copeits the most transparent fucking cope ive ever seenyoure terrified of being caught caring about anything
>Uncs fell for the hollywood writer psyop episode 45Sad, many such cases, no wonder we keep giving 6 bazillion to israel every year
I firmly believe no zoomer says "unc" and anyone who does it is some 30+ year old who trying to mock what they think a generation does.
A lot of older games are very front-loaded quality wise and the reality is that most fans do not play them all the way through. They primarily fixate on the opening hours of these games. A good example would be Deus Ex. Deus Ex rapidly declines in quality once you reach Hong Kong. Almost all the things people praise about the game are from the opening couple of hours.Is is interesting to note that Bloodlines 2 has the opposite problem. It improves in quality the more you play. It's kind of obvious that they didn't have the money to retool the opening hours of the game, but they did have the resources to rework the last few hours in a way that would create an emotionally satisfying finale. But the tradeoff is that Bloodlines 2 has a very disjointed and slow opening 2-3 hours, and this isn't great for first impressions.Bloodlines 1, like Deus Ex 1, benefits from having a strong opening hour even if the game basically goes to complete shit and never recovers.
>>742091867>Why do boomer unc games always become so shitty the further you get in them?VTMB only gets shitty in the last quarter, after you finish chinatown and move on to the last missionsconsidering things in perspective, it's actually a good run>>742092521YESI was fortunate enough to play the game when such "indie" and "niche" clubs were alive, and not overrun by faggots etc., and when I arrived at that place in the game I was transfixedreally cool moment and will probably guarantee the game's survival for 10000 years
>>742095436Even after Hong Kong the game remains really fucking good and it's only at Area 51 where it shits the bed
>>742095196and yet it remains a cult classic, no matter how big of a hissy fit you throwparadox bought white wolf partially on the strength of the vtmb cultthe disco elysium devs, whether you like the game or not, cited it as a direct influenceswery cited itavellone cited itthe entire immersive sim revival of the last decade owes something to itevery single dialogueheavy choice based rpg made after 2004 is downstream of either fallout, planescape, or vtmbyou genuinely dont know what youre talking about, you havent played the games it influenced because you havent played anythingit got no early recognition because activision pulled the plug, troika died, and it released the same week as half life 2the development history is public recordalso lol at the zoomer threatening me with the death of memoryas if your generation isnt the one that forgot what happened last tuesdayas if youre not the cohort that needs subway surfers playing in the corner of a tiktok to absorb a 30 second clip of breaking badand youre lecturing me about cultural longevityyou, the demographic with the cultural footprint of a fart in a hurricaneyour "canon" is fortnite skins and marvel phase 4 and whatever streamer drama happened last weekin 20 years no one will remember a single fucking thing your generation produced because your generation didnt produce anything, you just consumed and reposted
>>742091867Because budget runs part-way into development. Thing is, these games were aimed at enthusiasts who would overlook problems if the overall package or niche appeal was strong enough. Nowadays everything has to cast a wide net to get everyone possible playing the game.
Budget issues
>>742095503>it got no early recognition because activision pulled the plug, troika died, and it released the same week as half life 2People underestimate just how badly the game bombed. Like 72k copies sold while it mattered to Troika.
>>742095249what do you expect from a demographic that's known nothing but fortnite and games as service?
>living in a corner apartment, above a business, next to an abandoned by quiet beach, was considered bumming>today people would pay thousands of dollars in rent for such a placeI'm trying to suppress my hate for Gen X right now
>>742094480the jank is too high mang. seriously, why not make a vn if it's going to be unplayable. >i-it's only the entire gameplay that sucks
>>742095707but*
>>742092869FATMAN TRUKE
>>742095739>seriously, why not make a vn if it's going to be unplayableyou say that but that's exactly what happened with the licence. bloodlines 2 turned out the way it did and the rest are VNs and interactive fiction.
>>742092869>>742094480My problem is that the writing of VTMB1 is actually very smarmy and one-note and nobody feels like an actual person. Do I prefer the pulpier style of VTMB1 over VTMB2? Absolutely. But the character writing itself is not actually very good. The characters are paper thin, and the game equates infodumping exposition at you (you are a complete non-character) for writing depth. There's a kind of childishness to the game as a whole. I do really like VTMB1, but fans have created this version of the game that really doesn't line up with the reality.>you play it for the dialogue treesThe dialogue trees are not anything special. You just pick one of two options and the character rants at you for three minutes. The atmosphere is peak. I love the music. I love the art direction. I love the sense of place. But the story is terrible and the writing is overall kind of weak.If they ever remaster VTMB1 it is going to cause incredible whiplash as fans play it for the first time and discover how flawed it is.
>>742091867No one plays this shit. They just watch it on youtube becauese the gameplay is ass. Its not a generational thing either, the games story and atmosphere are simply not worth the clearly rushed and later on outright abandoned gameplay elements.
>>742095438>VTMB only gets shitty in the last quarter, after you finish chinatown and move on to the last missionsNo, the problems with VTMB begin basically with the first boss fight. The first genuinely bad section is the sabbat warehouse. By the time you reach downtown the game is in freefall quality-wise.
>>742095925VTMB2 was such an awful shit-sandwich I quit 4 hours in. Fuckin lesbians.In contrast I didn't even want to play VTMB but it sucked me in and there I was playing a computer, game like a retard, one week straight.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyQtOghqwAlink unrelated uwu
>>742095925You have this mistaken notion that fans of BL1 aren't ware of its faults.
>>742095482I can't agree there. Hong Kong is a slog. Paris is dreadful. The game runs out of steam and runs out of tricks and the illusion of a reactive world begins to fall apart. I've finished Deus Ex 1 multiple times. I do really like the game. But the moment you hit Hong Kong it's this deep sinking feeling.
>>742096394>Hong Kong is a slog>Paris is dreadfulNigga whatMaybe it's just not your kind of game
>>742095503>>742095645People seem to gloss over that every single Troika game fucking sucked. People act like Bloodlines 1's problems were unique to it. Every Troika game was made by retards who had never heard of project management and had no idea how to build a combat system. It's the damning peak of "stop letting game studios be run by designers and assign some goddamn cynical business people to keep them in line".
>>742096240Depends on your character. I played a Toreador with no any useful skills (lol) and boss fights were a breeze... maybe except the cemetery I accidentally wondered into at low level, and that fucking shark jump-scare that I only won by luck.Even if quality diminishes, it stays well above 99% of games made after it.
>>742095436>Bloodlines 2 has the opposite problem. It improves in quality the more you play>Bloodlines 1, like Deus Ex 1, benefits from having a strong opening hour even if the game basically goes to complete shit and never recovers.nigga please tell me what drugs r u on so i can never take them
>>742095925I'm tempted to think the problem is Mitsoda because the cancelled version of Bloodlines 2 had absolutely terrible writing where every character talked like a smug Redditor. The quality of the writing set off massive alarm bells for Paradox which was partially why they fired Mitsoda.
>>742096343They're in denial about the magnitude of its faults. It's very common with older cult classic games for fans to get very... selective about how much they'll admit the game fucking sucks.
>>742095991It's better than Arcanum at least
>summer>imagine u r in high school and wake up at 4AM so u can play Deus Ex for 2 hours before going to school>summer>imagine u r in university and u'r gf gives u a blowjob while u'r playing VTMB because that's the only chance of interaction she has with you for the next few weeksI was there, and it's close to Heavenback then games were "better than life," not shittier (like any game after HL2)
>>742096527Because it was rewritten late in development by a new writer/director, the third act of Bloodlines 2 is absolutely exceptional, and far higher quality than the rest of the game narratively as the rewritten plot threads converge and the truth of what Fabien has done reveals itself. They had a very limited budget and they sank it into the last 2 hours of the game. This is the complete inverse of how games like Bloodlines 1 and Deus Ex 1 were written where the first hours are completely front-loaded quality-wise and the finale is a complete afterthought. It's fairly rare for a game to dramatically improve in terms of writing quality, your choices having an impact and stuff like that in the last few hours. Usually it's the complete, total inverse where the writing quality drops off in the second half and it all feels way less polished.With VTMB1, the last half of the game has increasingly terrible writing and mechanically it goes to complete shit.
>>742097169>the third act of Bloodlines 2 is absolutely exceptionalcan u recommend any savegames or mods that take me there? because I won't eat the shit served up (in either timeline lol) by that gameupon seeing how shitty it is, I set as my objective to at least unlock all three costumes for Ventru, which I was playing... and unsuprisingly they looked more shitty than the DLC detective outfit u get from the startI trust no person working on that piece of shit
>let's get actual vampires work on the sequel to the vampire game>it's shit>what did we do wr-ACK
>>742091867SWAT 4's last level is pretty good. It has a good combination of open areas and enclosed corridors.
>>742097596>this nigga actually played SWAT4 to the end
>>742097747The Stetchkov Syndicate too. Of all of the shittiest levels in SWAT 4, the Children of Taronne had to be the worst.
>>742091867>Why do boomer unc games always become so shitty the further you get in them?not an issue in project nortubel
>>742097817I hope the FBI hire you as counselor or smth because we regular niggers only play the first 3-4 missions over and over again like retards
>>742097324It's not that kind of game. The climax of the story is the culmination of everything that has brought you to that point. Jumping out the window into the sunlight because you have faith that Fabien will do something, anything to save you. That said, it is kinda of jarring how oddly constructed the game is as a result of the rewrites because it's like 3 different games stitched together back to back.
i like the gameplay in vtmb. gangrel protean kind of sucks and maybe 2-3 of the final combat areas are a bit too unbalanced but otherwise i enjoy playing it.for a lot of people who come here to talk about how it's the worst game they ever played it's always sad to see them go on to mention how they put no points into combat stats or had no idea how melee actually worked and they just button mashed the entire time.
>>742097904>The climax of the story is the culmination of everything that has brought you to that point.anon the point of the game is making you want to go towards that pointand VTMB2 ain't itit's a world not even a Canadian would frolick in
>>742091867>Gothicfuck you, sleeper temple is quinoa - I will admit that the main plot is railroaded after your join a camp, but the world and exploration are still top tier
>>742097904Problem with the entire sunlight part is it MASSIVELY glosses over the vampire lore in Masquerade. Vampires are supposed to be comatose during the day with only massive surges of willpower getting to move and in tabletop mechanics that's on per-turn basis. Talking or complex actions are out the question. Looking back Redemption fumbled the same situation even worse.
>>742097920>i like the gameplay in vtmb. gangrel protean kind of sucks and maybe 2-3 of the final combat areas are a bit too unbalanced but otherwise i enjoy playing it.yeah the magic of VTMB is that you can larp as a right wing, a left wing, your profession, your childhood, your whatever... it doesn't judge you, but it serves enough material for you to chew and judge (either the world or the developers, doesn't count, it's high quality chew-stuff)this is what they didn't get when making VTMB2... being human... ironically
>>742097904The fact there's no option to side with Safia is extremely annoying. I know they were working under extreme scope limitations, but Safia flat-out says that she would prefer to work with you because she has grown fond of you. (It's almost certainly a blood bond caused by her fucking around with potions made from your blood to give herself superpowers.) Phyre being this die-hard sabbat hater who refuses to compromise in any way was a trait that the writers regretted because it railroads the story, and they primarily had money to do Fabien rewrites, not Phyre rewrites.
>>742097920The combat really is piss easy, it just gets janky sometimes. Also ming is a godawful bullet sponge, there's no fixing that.
>>742091867
>>742098061To be fair, Safia is AFAIK staying awake during the day using thinblood alchemy. This is doable in v5. She's actually incredibly doped up on various potions to give herself various abilities she doesn't have naturally, and the DLC explores this a little bit more. Also, despite being bug-nuts crazy Safia does actually seem to be a relatively high humanity vampire. A lot of her problems sorta stem from going crazy because she was so high humanity in the 20s and she lost everything. But the fact Ryong, who is a 90s vampire, is able to open her eyes and speak to Safia is really a stretch.
>>742097920>>742098591The problem is that the combat is never fun in any way. It's not about being difficult. It's about being un-fun. It's boring.>>742098108VTMB2 inherited some really weird narrative baggage where they decided early on that the game was going to be about vampires as an allegory for the mega wealthy and thus utterly devoid of conventional human interactions. For most of development they had no romance, they had no concept of friendship between the characters because of the belief that vampires cannot actually have friends.Now this is not exactly misaligned with VTM. The tabletop does portray elders and powerful vampires as being disconnected from the human experience and from traditional interactions, but this does not really work in a videogame. It produces a kind of sterility that you also find in VTM Swansong where the characters just interact with each other in this very flat, business-like style.
>>742098591it's practically the CP2077 philosophy, pistol and blade being top optionswhich is retarded but that's what we get>t. finished Far Cry 3 with MP5, an fair game actualy
>>742098773nigga that ain't an excuse for vtmb2 being an absolute piece of shit (even if the setting and characters were actually cool)at the end of the day u have the game in ur handsand its shitthat's itnot complicated
>>742098913Bloodlines 2 does have excellent writing, excellent gameplay, and fantastic music, atmosphere, art direction, all that stuff. It's almost laughable how much it mogs the other WoD games mechanically.
>vtmb2 shill is still here
>>742101628Frankly, I'm not a fan of v5 VTM writing in general, and I think a lot of people are not prepared for how much it's going to infect the tone of that new CRPG they announced. I think v5's world building and approach to vampires is a problem in and of itself, and it's VTM without the goth and punk elements that made VTM interesting to begin with.
>>742093095Holy fuck you are dumb. I pity you
>>742098913In my experience a lot of people who hate VTMB2 basically just hate it because it refuses to be an RPG and they kind of assumed it would be an RPG.
>>742103496Its named after a rpg its based off a table top rpg faggot how can people not expect it to be a fucking rpg they should of listened to the room and changed to name. But then they'd had to refund people who pre ordered it.
>>742103496Yeah and also it sucks.
>>742091867On god these uncs are completely delulu its why after all these 3 years of hardcore intense retro gaming the only good franchise trilogy is Risen
>>742103672Because of the budget and scope problems, the devs told Paradox that they probably shouldn't call it Bloodlines 2 because this would create the impression the game was an RPG when really what they were making was a linear action game with some dialogue choices. Paradox felt they knew better.
>>742104506I'm playing it currently. I got it during the Steam sale, and it seems like a very decent game, and while I think the pacing is kind of weird I really don't see any particular reason why people got assmad about it. It is absolutely a better game than the first Bloodlines, and it's not even a contest. This is better written, has better characters, better everything, really. It's just not an RPG. And I can't fault the game for wonky pacing when the original has even worse pacing and an entire second half that just sucks.
>>742091867>Why do boomer unc games always become so shitty the further you get in them?Because before the vidya industry was bigger than the film industry, game budgets were smaller than movie budgets, fag.
>>742093295>7 hours setting up and playing this dogshitDid you not get the katana and the fire axe in the first hub, anon?
>boomer unc games
>>742095739>the jank is too highliterally just get the katana and the fire axe and the gameplay becomes devil may cry
>>742095196>no one knows about this game outside v aI first played this game when I was 12 back in 2014 long before I ever heard of 4chan or reddit. Stop trying so hard to fit in you insufferable newfag.
Yukie > Jeanette > Samantha > Heather > Therese > Susan > DamselPisha = Flamethrower
>>742093860Annah is sex though
>>742091867>he opened it and is malding on 4chink nowsucks to be you OP.
>>742091867the only part i dislike is the chinese lady boss fight. i had fun with literally figuratively mtaphorically hypotheiteitically eveyrhting else
>>742091867Boomers had no attention spans. They were too busy watching MTV and playing Snake on their phones to finish their games.
>>742093489>You're 100% right but these old faggots on this board will never admit to any of it. They'll play their crusty old shit forever because they're jaded, cynical, and think they are the only authority on quality.how can you understand good game design if you don't expose yourself to different experiences? if the only things you play are modern games, your opinion is worthless to me, and you should fuck off to reddit. if you haven't spent a few thousand hours on games made between '85-'05 you have no place posting on /v/ or commenting on shitty modern vidya made by and for retards like you.
>>742091867VTMB is choiceslop>AHHHH I'm chooooooosing! what build should I do this time? >malkavian? nosferatu? putting all my points into "stealth" that the devs forgot to playtest?>which characters should I spare or kill? which waifu should I choose? >what do you mean the entire 2nd half of the game is a linear combat slog where 50% of all possible builds are invalidated? git gud! should've read a walkthrough before you made wrong choices!
>>742108302There's not that many choices. Yes, unless you have Obfuscate, you should put points in stealth, there's no choice there. There's also no determining waifus, what are you even on about, and no "who to kill" that I can think of. Also both melee and ranged are viable for endgame.Really the only choice is clan.
patiently waiting for the demon the fallen game
>>742094064>Grout's manor is rather late into the game and it's an unforgettable level>Grout's manor>rather lateI think you might have played a different game
>>742095817didn't they just announce a CRPG like two weeks ago?also that Hunter game
>>742108856tbf it feels late if you do all the downtown sidequests before you bother with the dane. In that case you do two full hubs before grouts manor.
