>there was a time where this was the biggest eSport in the world
>>748104743What does the Korean numbers look like compared to BW these days?
>there was a time when this was the best RTS in the world>it still is
n00bs
>>748106413villager and archer pathing still retarded? shant be playing
>>748104743brood war is better
>>748104743sc2 was always worse than broodwar
>>748106641hell yeah brother
>>748106698kek post the video where it looks like he has wittle hands :D I laugh everytime
>>748106413>Better than the scale, macro, and attention requisite status of SupCom FA(F).
>>748106698>>748106725Toad traced the round curves of Peach's chest danglers with his tiny fingers. He's. Needing. Her. Round. Breasts. He thought that Peach was a D cup, but she was actually a B cup. It only felt that way because his hands were almost as small as Artosis's.
>>748106413>you only get to play 1 raceunbelievably boring
>>748106815
>>748106962mario and luigi were finally alone. Even though they were brothers, and even though they were plumbers…. They were still lovers. Mario opened up the front of his bath robe and Luigi pulled his foreskin over the tip of Mario’s penis. They docked like lovers do. They docked like brothers do. They docked like plumbers do
>>748107494with subs, sound, and opponents povhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8wJW3_VK9I
>>748107494kek outplayed go make dinner instead of trying to play with the big boys
>>748107494lolWatching starcraft is much more fun than playing it. Shit is stressful.
>>748107638average protoss monkey enjoying life at the expense of terran GODSlove to see it
>>748106698Did anything happen after this incident? It really feels like it would have been the breaking point where he quit videogames, tossed his PC in the trash and spent the next several years living in Japan or some shit.
>>748107790well he does live in canada now
>>748104743Thank god for automatic gatheringSC2 was way better than broodwar
>>748107494why did the mine do it
>>748107010GAY
ngl when I saw the MC vs Idra match at Blizzcon a few days ago I got some biggie feels
>>748107956it targeted the front zealot instead of the back zealot
>>748107494thats my gf, i was teaching her sc at the time. I told her every time she lost, she had to suck my dick till i cum and she had to swallow it.
>>748107494that's my wifelove his cock many time
>>748107638
>>748104743where did it all go wrong? Was SC2 *that* bad?
>>748108360nah, the game was just too hard for the average retard, so most people just migrated to Mobas because it was infinitely easier.
>>748106815>>748107010
>>748108360It's not new anymore so people default to better games like BW or AoE2.
esports and consoles killed RTS
>>748108728Retarded devs and publishers killed RTS.
Starcraft 2 cured me out of compfagging.
>>748108871Every other genre but RTS is still alive. RTS games cannot be played on consoles(they tried but it failed every time), let that sink in.
>>748108360No, SC2 was great.. well... The campaign was... Well, the campaign mission design was great, the story was kinda shit in WoL, and then went pants on head retarded after thatAnd the multiplayer was kinda shit too, the engine and pathing were really good, which unfortunately meant that giant deathball armies were really easy to control, which meant that a single doomdrop could mean game ending damage could be done in mere seconds, so games were simultaneously really turtle-ey and really volatile at the same time, which was frustrating to play and not really fun to watch>you now remember broodlord infestor>you now remember the sentry>you now remember the swarm host
>>748104743>there was a time where sports had no e
>>748106542>>748106698>protoss out of ASLAt least I got my protoss fix at Blizzcon when Tasteless bullied Artosis with reavers and dark templars
>>748106604Lmao they're never fixing pathing. It's better than it used to be though. Villagers in particular are much less retarded.
>>748107494Holy fucking kek.
>>748105113Koreans mostly play SC1
>>748104743Is RTS just tower defense?
>>748108360apm metagame bullshit
>>748107956Mine hates the terran commander more than they hate protossThis is known
>>748108964PC makes almost as much as all consoles combined. I blame mediocre RTS like AOE being shallow and a bad introduction to the genre, not that many RTS are good enough for a massively popular genre.
>>748107494I'm not super big into BW but why the mine didnt zoom in at highspeed and fuck the Zelot. The mines are slower in multiplayer or something?
>>748109515That's a somewhat recent thing. Beforehand PC was seen as a pirate platform where nobody buys games, most companies just moved to consoles and PC was only getting shitty ports. It was only after Steam became popular PC experienced a renaissance, and even then most publishers still want the console audience.
>>748109515Nobody wants to make a game for the 50% when you can sell to 100%. Only exceptions are first party games and games paid for by said first party.
>>748108992If the SC IP isn't fun to play with normal pathing, maybe it just isn't really fun to play. It starts with castability being really hard to convey importance and meaning, people not getting into all the alien names and matchups. And it doesn't extend well into much storyworth because it's just small maps micro and repetitive tasks.Play SupCom FAF. At least the castability is strong with all of the basic unit types like subs, frigates, destroyers, and cruisers; and how much is going on leads to a lot of variety to talk about and keep fresh from map to map. Air, land, and sea, here we gooo!
>>748109919>Only exceptions are first party games and games paid for by said first party.Isn't that proving the point? A lot of exclusive games exist. COD should be exclusive if the law parties weren't retarded.Anyway, I think an RTS will be like top 3 once people are all playing games together. Quality is objective, and almost no other genre gives that edge of your seat intensity as a good RTS.
>>748104743Why did he rage quit?
>>748110475He was trying to spread out the workers across mineral patches and failed and put them all on the same patch. Therefore he would have been behind a little bit in resource collection.
>>748109629The pathing is just kinda fucked, the mine was trying to attack the front zealot and the back zealot kept blocking it
>>748110259SupCom is just boring compared to SC
>>748110829So do something besides eco every game.
>>748108360Sc2 is still the best game on the market for modernizations and great pathing and mechanicsImo it's biggest shortcoming to entry is the fact that the speed it plays at disallows alot of strats for a lot of peopleHell even at the top level the APM demand is so high more elaborate shit>Like the baneling mineIs actively avoided outside of "the pro is feeling good that day"Tl;Dr game is too fast for most people
>>748110259I think you're undervaluing pathingSc2 literally is the only game with good pathing, if only because it set an impossible standard for pathing that no other game.has come close to since
>>748107494I DON'T CARE SHE'S CUTE
>>748110829I don't really get that. How can a small-map, micro-heavy game be more engaging than the scale and macro of SupCom? You've got vastly more room to maneuver, multiple fronts, land, air, and naval warfare, a much deeper economy, strategic zoom, experimentals, artillery, nukes, TML, shields, drops, commander and SACU upgrades, and an enormous variety of units and weapons. SC has its strengths, but calling SupCom boring seems strange when there's just so much more happening at once.
>>748110417>A lot of exclusive games existWho is gonna pay for exclusivity of PC games?
>>748110583>A little bitEarly game mining has exponential effects on standard matches
>>748106542How did he lose his vespian gas line?
>>748111396>4 minutes on the clockHe probably hadn't built it yet
>>748111276>Naval warfareAh yes a system that has been good in every single RTS game ever, and not literally dogshit in everything but rise of nations
>come home from school>map hack in brood war all day>still loseThose were the days
>>748111185Does SupCom have bad pathing or something?>>748111335Do consoles usually pay for exclusive games?
>>748111884>Does SupCom have bad pathing or something?Theres pathing and then there's StarCraftIt's literally the only reason why zerglings stand a chance in hell in sc2 is their uncanny ability to reacquire and reepath to targetI don't see any melee units in supcom, which also happens to run like .25 speed
>>748111276>how can an [engaging mechanic] heavy game be more engaging than [examples of less engaging mechanics]?
>>748110583No you fucking retard he just misclicked and missed the minerals completely so he ragequit.
>>748111824>watching replay>my dropships skirt the edge of the map>mysteriously the enemy player takes all his dragoons to the perfect position to intercept my drop before it can get there >wow that guy was really in my headyounger me was a little naive
>>748106807You people are genuinely the most insecure fanbase of any RTS
>>748111185BAR's pathing is better if you consider how much more it has to take into account. SC2 maps and movement are a lot simpler.
>>748111884>Do consoles usually pay for exclusive games?Absolutely, there are records of sony paying devs to make their games exclusive, at least for a year or so, I believe Rockstar got paid as well.But it depends, back in the days developers had to pretty much beg to get their games to be released on consoles because it was the main vidya market(they still pay for dev kits up to this day lol).
>>748106413You're not wrong.
>>748104743no, starcraft 2 was never the biggest. it was always playing second fiddle to Starcraft.
>>748112247It's not insecurity, it's the fact that you faggots existing literally fucked up SupCom 2.
>>748108557More people play SC2 than either of those
>>748112373The one with Spawn in it, I hope.
>>748112249>SC2 maps and movement are a lot simplerAnd that's a good thing, but you only think it's simpler because it's more responsive/user friendlyCompare that to literally every game on the market with mixed ranged/melee and you realize just how much is running under the hood
>>748112439No, I think it's simpler because it objectively is.
>>748112306Not exactly sc2's fault>Be Korean at the top of your game>Have to do compulsive military service to be an scv for 2-4 years>Come back rusty as fuckNo I'm not sure how serral did it
>>748112313>supcomfag literally has so many holes in his brain that he’s mad his retarded devs tried to copy a more successful game and failed yeah totally not insecure at all
>>748106413i wish they'd buff handcannoneers, but instead they nerf bohemians...
>>748112538>No I think thing because I'm wrongLolWhen I think of the budget of the games, the way melee pathing works, and the big names behind it all I can say is supcom's speed is slow, it's units all balanced around fighting in featureless valleysAnd oh it has no arcadeAlmost Every RTS experience remade in sc2 arcade is better than its original Supcom would literally be better if it stole sc2's pathing
>>748106807Sheesh that visual clarity
>>748112794I said BAR, not SupCom. SupCom 2 is the game with comparable pathfinding to SC2.
>>748106413Nah, they've ruined it with the DLC and constant tinkering. The game is almost unrecognisable thanks to civilisation bloat.
>>748112885Again, no game has comparable pathing to sc2Also when I look at BAR it's not that I think it's a bad gameBut at its scale it would be more visually appealing as an ant RTS
>>748112894And that's a good thing, it needed a logic update>You're fucked for moving in formation>Borderline zero modernizations in unit control and recognition like minimal readabilityYou fucking name itI'm happy an old game is getting modern support though
>>748112013>which also happens to run like .25 speedYou mean compared to SC? Dodge APM is still like 1-2 per second. It's not a huge difference.>>748112041APM for the sake of APM on repeat isn't meaningful gameplay. The greater momentary storyworth of SupCom leads to better memorability and enjoyability. Stimulation is the #1 correlative of intelligence.>>748112247Not an argument.>>748112257You have to admit it's rare.
>>748112846It looks like it has edited gamma. The game is really visually appealing for how old it is.
>>748113367>You have to admit it's rare.It really is not, especially if you consider that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are pretty much in full control of most companies making exclusive games. If you were a developer, wouldn't you want your game to be available on every platform that can run it? UNLESS, UNLESS! Someone paid you not to release your game on PC.
>>748108360Mechanically-wise some things were great like cliff climbing/jumping for certain units. Not to mention the pathfinding was perfect. Only minus is the APM is greater than in Brood War and it scared off any casual player that would want to get into multiplayer. Hence why they released Coop Commanders in the first place.Campaign was both fantastic and horrible at the same time.Fantastic due to the gameplay and mechanisms for each faction (not to mention most mission designs), but horrible due to how they butchered the lore and gave people shit campaign stories for everyone ending it with a even more horrible prologue. All to redeem Kerrigan despite the fact what shit she did during Brood War, what she did during WoL and what she even did in HoTS.And instead of fixing their mess like pulling off a XCOM2 and cleanly retconning it, they instead did the laziest and lamest thing by doing a new game and setting it decades after SCII.And let me tell you. StarCraft will never be good again as a setting as long as StarCraft II is still canon.
>>748107494>>748107638i can hear artosis screaming in my mind's eye this is the funniest clip ever conceived
>>748113367>APM for the sake of APM on repeat isn't meaningful gameplayYou don't realize this was only because big slow dopey units would collide with each other, have zero repathing logic. And "forget" what you told them to do, necessitating what you think is "APM for apm's sake"All the while being the reason why certain movement tech exists?
>>748112962Sure it does.
>>748113543Some people genuinely forget FF7R was exclusive to PlayStation for 1 year, then epic games for another year
>>748113893FF XVI as well
>>748113835No it wasn't
>>748113893people forget sony paid for monster hunter world, and then iceborne, to be timed console exclusive, after they were initially announced to be simultaneous multiplatform release
>>748113981>Order 8x3 hydralisks down a hallway/narrow wall zone>Genuinely lose like 10 along the way unless I reorder themYes it is, air units are only fucking op in SC because they aren't janky to command
>>748114092No, I mean that wasn't the only APM for APM's sake in Starcraft. Of course SC1's pathfinding sucked, all RTS games had bad pathfinding then.
>>748114067Is it that they forget or that they are so bizarrely confident in their lack of information
>>748108360SC2 suffered from the retail WoW effect where the playerbase became obsessed with the idea that dealing with sticks in your wheels is the true test of how good you are at riding a bicycle
>>748114145Right, I'm telling supcomtard "APM for apm's sake" is myth perpetuated from people who never touched StarCraft or cant comprehend that professional Korean players actually have a method to their madness
SC2 is ass and an abomination to the genre.
>>748114153And how exactly does StarCraft 2 fall into that categoryGameplay wise every other redefined RTS is just the same jank, but it's diehard fans just put up with it
>>748113835Good pathing doesn't make SC not a repetitive task game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGwZaioGh58
dragoons fucked up shape/size causing pathing issues is sovl
>>748104743this is what happens when normies get into a hobby. then the hobby deteriorates as normies become the target demographic to harvest profits from
discussing rts on /v/ is a trap.
>>748114376>Repetitive taskYou can take a term like gameplay loop and replace it with what you used it doesn't change the fact that it's tied to fundamental game mechanicsAka "something you can get good at"If you don't like it go find a Mario party thread Literally no game out there worth getting good at doesn't have "repetitive tasks"
>>748114489>jew>shapeshifts into a mexican
>>748113543>>748113893Timed exclusivity isn't the gotcha you think it is. The point is people publish to whatever platform they can. That doesn't make PC exclusivity some ignorable niche. PC income is huge. There's enough to go around if people will make and advertise an objectively top-level game. Again, RTS intensity is almost unmatched. It's objectively enjoyable.
Zerg is shit and gets shit on easily in sc2 because their units are weak and no early anti-air units to make because they decided to replace hydralisks with roaches and make hydralisks take up 2 supply and the hydralisk den requiring a lair. imo, Zerg in sc2 needs to have their supply limit to 300 or 1000 so they can be much better in the late game.
>>748114497The usual suspects usually come out to play even on /vst/This is the least /pol/ thread I've been in in a while though so maybe the good thing about RTS is it has so little mass appeal maybe the agenda bots even avoid it
>>748114634But PC isn't some ignorable niche, I usually bring it up to express how annoyed I am at companies like sony who have no gaems and companies like epic who have dog shit platforms
>>748114661>Zerg is shit and gets shit on easily in sc2Zerg is shit for literally everyone but the one person who the entire fucking race is balanced around because literally one person knows how to play zergThat and zerg having a remarkable amount of busy work so it's probably not even gun for most people who can't digest a screen of information in .75 secThat and cool guys like dark retiring due to compulsive military service
>>748114448>dragoons fucked up shape/size causing pathing issues is sovlThat's false.It's a variable speed.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24134OFfvFII can't blame you though, since it's the kind of myth that Artosis and Tasteless repeat as well.It was fun seeing the early seasons of ASL, when they both got the miss chance mechanic wrong, then like 6 seasons in Artosis would finally learn in and be able toe correct Tasteless.I don't know more starcraft in general than them though, I for some reason thought Hydralisks took 2 supplies into like 10 seasons of ASL, despite mass hydra was my favorite thing to do in starcraft
>>748114553SupCom has normal gameplay and some of the highest variety:depth without being 300 APM.
>>748106807Nobody but autists cares about watching various geometric shapes shoot lasers at each from orbit.
>>748114749the irony being all broodwar players are insanely political and spam chat channels with the most schizo shit
>>748115094>That's falseThe only reason I'm gonna say it's not false (effectively) is because in coop commanders high volumes of dragoons are constantly highly limiting to their own DPS at range, it's just that they don't give up on finding a target quite as easily as they do in sc
>>748115143>Game is bad because high APMNumbnuts high APM only exists because high end gamers realize they can do more in the time they're givenMost people arent paid to play sc2, most people run at 30-100 APM, and the game is still fun even at that, and even I'm at arcadeHigh APM is not a requirement, God forbid a game should reward itAlso serral, consistent best player, easily has 100-200 apm less than the next best player on average
>>748115168You're wrong about the unit:icon parallel not being immersive. You can tell what units are up to a pretty high zoom. Nobody restricts 1 or 2 screens to full map zoom.
>>748115227Oh well even sc2 has its barrens equivalentHell even HotS lmaoThere are genuinely people who make an account just to be mentally illIf they think they have a platform people will spout
>>748113367>micro is apm for the sake of apmopinion discarded
>>748115446yeah you're right, it's not a starcraft thing, it seems to just me an "old game that people are still playing thing" (it happens in diablo 2 as well I'm told). All the schizos left in the games because they have no where else to go (similar to 4chan, but it seems less serious here
>>748115168>abstractions badNo I think it's autists who wouldn't have fun with that because they can't follow the abstraction.
>supcomfaggot still trying to convince innocent people that his trash is something more than garbage console wank
>>748115394If I wanted to watch counters slowly bumping against each other I'd play Hearts of Iron. If I play RTS I want to watch cool battles between cool models. Supcom being just gay-ass soulless robots doesn't really help the situation.
>>748115394>Zoom out in sc2I know what a marine sounds like, I know what a stalker sounds like, I know what a zergling sounds like, and I know what they all look like on the attack>Big blob of muzzle flashes moving as a unit>Big semi liquid mass smoothly pouring over and overwhelming something else>Big staccato mass shooting twin lasers occasionally blinkingSupcom>Little blocky dots that occasionally blow up or shoot lasers
>>748112756nobody CARES about hand FAGoneers
>>748115535>But it seems less serious hereNo we just happen to have as many people ignoring the bait as do that reply to it
>>748115602They can’t help themselves. They’re similar to Paradoxfags who think that “more” makes the game deep or something
>>748115743>Crimson desert shilling, supcom drooling, and paradox shillingArr took same
>>748108360See>>748108437SC2 and its community was just garbage.When the hype died down, because nobody cared about APM spam, you got threads like>why did RTS die???Even though there are bunch of games with an active playerbase>>748108964There are fun console RTS games around.Also fps games suck on console but those work fine
>>748104743The world? It never was. Quake and 1.6 were always larger. This is pure Korean slop
>>748108437>average retardthat would be subhumans like you, stop projecting
>>748115918you're retarded and wrong about everything you just said
>>748115918Consoles are only fine if they have absurd bullet magnetism (destiny) or reward spray and pray/move and shoot (halo)Otherwise they are not fine>Play a coop aiming game like aliens fire team elite or vermintide>Behold people who aim like tanks and drift way past their intended target>Behold the friendly fireFor RTS to work on consoles it needs to be made competently for consolesAnd frankly I can't think of one outside of pikmin
>>748116030>Quake and 1.6 were always largerlol
>>748116030I've never seen quake played on a beach to a full live audiencePeak SC was an insane spectator sport
Play a weel rts.
>>748111735>everything but rise of nationsBased.
>>748116286How about the fact that the most beloved supcom map is setons clutchA literal one lane, narrow tug of war map
>>748116341No thanks, already played MOBAs.
>>748116335I hesitate to bring it up because then I remind myself the talent behind it went to phone games because that's where the money isHe wasn't wrong, but that was no way to goIt's like will wright leaving the industry
>>748106815OH. MY. GOD.
>>748116154>Consoles are only fine if they have absurd bullet magnetism (destiny) or reward spray and pray/move and shoot (halo)Did you miss the part where I said they suck on console?They're fine as in "they're doing well". Pikmin is a good example, it's a different way to do RTS
>>748115657i care
>>748115387That doesn't make small maps micro not competitive or vastly outshined by more scale, better economy, and overall more strategy.>>748115485Does SC2 sometimes convert a strategic decision into an unnecessarily high number of mechanical inputs? SC2 has a higher mechanical execution ceiling. That doesn't automatically mean it has a higher strategic ceiling. SupCom might ask you to make fewer commands per individual engagement, but those commands are competing against decisions happening across the entire map.>>748115625>>748115630>If I wanted to watch counters slowly bumping against each other I'd play Hearts of Iron. If I play RTS I want to watch cool battles between cool models.You can do that in SupCom. The battle is very readable, and you're going to get more out of SCFA than other RTS games. The scale isn't matched.>Supcom being just gay-ass soulless robots doesn't really help the situation.What a retarded argument. Battles won't have infantry in the future, and infantry would lose to tech.
>>748116717Well I was more pushing the notion that they don't do particularly good or badThey're just good when they play to the strengths of consoles (smart use of two sticks)Or good when they play to the strengths of keyboards (high volume of actions on kb, high precision on mouse)
>>748116286Retard.>>748116341I don't like Seton's, but you can't say it lacks strategy completely because of a one-lane landbridge. Air still wins games. Navy still massively rewards winning the lane.
I enhoyed halo wars on console. I had a lot of fun, especially when playing 2v2 with a friend.I played cpt cutter because odst drop was funny to spam and he played sir forge for big tanks. When everyone is shit at a game you get into some really silly and dramatic moments.
>>748116810Nigga no one with a brain thinks Supreme Commander has a higher strategic ceiling give it a rest
>>748116810>More strategyTheres a lot of cheese in StarCraft, and a lot of it can be cleaned by scouting and proper information digestion Owing to sc2's clear readability>Muh small mapsThere are large and small maps dictated by rush distance and walls, and the very need to expand and escalate opens up bases for more angles of attackYou're pretending like supcom 2 is better because you're selling it's early game like being a clusterfuck is a good thing
>>748108728>and consoles killed RTSC&C1, Red Alert and WCII sold perfectly fine on the PS1.
>>748116956I do and so should you.
>>748116810>an unnecessarily high number of mechanical inputs?High input enables elaborate strategy, and many players have had excellent 1 game runs and then mentally burnt out because newsflash, high APM, high complexity moves can't be maintained for extended time in any competitive game>decisions happening across the entire mapAll game current SC2 is about outgrowing your opponentThis makes for a game designed around indecisive battles (because pros don't overcommit) and so the one true gain you can get is on successful raids on resource lines, and baiting defenders into over-defending and losing their critical mass is it's own decisive winIt's an elegantly simple system of economy, harassment, and large mid game skirmishes depending on the MO>The scale isn't matchedYour obsession with size and dearth of features is bizarre, like just because a game has more shit in it, doesn't magically make it good, just good for people who like more shit
>>748106815Damn it...LMAO!!!
>>748104743Why do you have SC2 with really crappy graphics, it.looked like 1 but it couldn't be because it's 2 and I am extremely pissed off at you for making not know which one is which... I fucking hate you.
>>748107682she played against another woman doe
>>748117547Iirc the original sc2 does in fact look different from LOTV and that clip is definitely very old
>>748117459>High input enables elaborate strategyNo, it turns it into a gay action game.
>>748111106I play on Slow and have a blast.
>>748104743they tried to force sc2 as an esport before it was even released lmao
>>748117392Totally meaningless. SupCom is on the level of a Relic game in terms of “depth”.
>>748117742Nah.
>>748112604Sc2 died in korea because of huge matchfixing scandal that ruined esport scene and reputation of sc2 in korea permanently
>>748117658>supcomtard admits the peak of strategy to him is spamming samey units and attack moving them
>>748117860I accept your concession
>>748104743Why don't they patch the game to have the workers spread out automatically at the start? I hate how rts games have so much unnecessary micro.
>>748116956"Strategic ceiling" isn't measured by how fast you can stutter-step. SupCom has more fronts, larger maps, land/air/naval warfare, streaming eco, reclaim, experimental units, strategic weapons, drops, and far more simultaneous decisions. You can prefer SC2, but "no one with a brain" isn't an argument.If your argument is "SC2 has higher APM, therefore higher strategy," you've already confused mechanical ceiling with strategic ceiling. SupCom gives you an entire war to manage instead of one fight at a time.>>748117126I didn't say anything about SupCom 2.>>748117459>>748117742>just because a game has more shit in it, doesn't magically make it goodIt's not about "more shit" for the sake of it. It's about how those systems interact. More fronts, terrain, economy, unit types, and strategic options create more possible decisions and interactions. Complexity alone doesn't equal depth, but pretending the number of meaningful interactions is irrelevant is just as silly.
>>748117894qrd?
>>748117658While I like that classic CnC has a scatter button for avoiding infantry crushes, the kinds of techniques people have developed for splitting against banelings, disruptor blasts, and telegraphed AoE is pure skill, and if you can't appreciate that then I'm sorry, I'm sure your slow mo missiles and your slow mo trickle of slow mo units will do wonders for spectators suffering from insomnia
>>748118126>SupCom 2BAR is so unashamedly an supcom 2 clone you'd have to be wilfully acting obtusely just to hit me with the "nuh uh"
>>748118126>SupCom has more fronts, larger maps, land/air/naval warfare, streaming eco, reclaim, experimental units, strategic weapons, drops, and far more simultaneous decisions.>you see it has more “stuff” therefore you make more decisionsliteral peanut brain
>>748118074I think they've actually done that so they auto start mining when match starts
>>748118126>I didn't say anything about SupCom 2.considering you replied to me replying to someone using the same rhetoric to explain why supcom 2 is better, it stands to reason that i can only assume we were talking about Supcom 2follow the chain or dont reply lmao people will still think youre samefagging
supcomfag can't you just admit it's a different genre and fuck offstop shitting up my thread
>>748118074>>748118429its been proven that movement tech exists for you to move the workers to the mineral line manually, then click on the mineral field to avoid inherent decelerationIF you could in theory do this for all your workers and had someone microing ALL your workers manually you WOULD see more minerals per workeriirc theres also been math done to show even the first workers you have doing this has small but signficant ripples for the rest of the gameHell Clem (terran number 1) has been seen doing this early game while waiting for his first barracks to build or his first reaper to get across the map, its just small but meaningful stuff to do to warm up/ramp up your APMsTHAT SAID fuck it up and the cost is>you literally have 0 income from 100% of your workers at the start of the game when you dont want to lose any workers, let alone have them not mining" so the cost of fucking up is immense
Mogs DoW2 and it's ~3 unit limit.
>>748118839holy unit icons>lets have dogshit readability in a genre that hinges on readability
>>748117993I hope you don't think SupCom is only A-move. Units have highly different ranges (kite micro), speed and turret rotation rates (circle strafing), etc.>>748118198Nobody's saying splitting against AoE doesn't take skill. The point is that mechanical execution isn't the same thing as strategic depth. SupCom's slower projectiles and units don't remove skill -- they give you a different skill ceiling, where positioning, prediction, range, formations, firing arcs, and multitasking across multiple fronts matter.>>748118268I didn't mention BAR either.>>748118323The whole discussion is meaningful APM vs. momentary storyworth. SupCom is more fun to play and talk about.
>>748118545It’s at the point where I’d genuinely rather talk about World in Conflict or something
>>748118504>considering you replied to me replying to someone using the same rhetoric to explain why supcom 2 is better, it stands to reason that i can only assume we were talking about Supcom 2I'm guessing you're >>748115630? You brought up SupCom 2 when the predecessor was obviously talking about SupCom FA.
>>748119116That's pretty much every modern RTS as far as I know
>>748118545>>748119171ive watched SC2 players dabble in BARthe same people who push SUPCOM2 twitch chat like they post here, its insane how desperate they are to defend their game>>748119226>you were talking about po-tah-to when he was talking about potatoit doesnt fucking matter, i hear the same defense for both games vs starcraft>it has more shit and more strategy and deeper stuff>>748119278talentless hacks who dont playtest their games, classicand i fucking loved Relic's old games>The Outfit>Impossible Creaturesyou name it, jesus fuck that company
>>748119341>and i fucking loved Relic's old gamesYou can say that about every modern vidya company
>>748119116What's wrong with the icons?
>>74812023040k has very iconic guns and characters in the sense that I can tell at a glance what they are, and more relevantly what their role isif i have to open anon's image, and lean in just to figure out what im looking at, and i STILL cant see what the fuck im looking at for at least half of those models, they fucked up with the unit cardsIve attached an example which isnt that good but design wise>all the helmeted space marine heads are in the same spot>beaky you learn with gamerplay is melee assault>helmeted guy is basic line infantry>helmet with blue gun is heavy anti armorsimple shit like thatgo back to the DoWIII>where the FUCK is the scout head in the portrait
>>748118268BAR predates SupCom 2 by years. Predates SupCom 1 too.
>>748108360it definitely wasn't good
>>748120690The big 40K pro couldn't recognize 3 servitors, 3 scouts with their sniper rifles in the image, 4 lascannons, 5 tactical marines with glowing plasma, 2 heavy bolters, whirlwind (only one where you might have an argument), assault marine squad with beakie and jump pack, and predator annihilators with obvious dual lascannons?Weird.
>>748121209no, desaturated portraits against desaturated color palette is in fact, not good at a glancealso>missing the pointclassic
>>748121356Your point is that you've 'learned from gameplay' what the icons are in DoW2, and you haven't in DoW3, which actually has a unit type icon which is much more convenient at a glance. Have yourself tested for autism.
>>748107790Specifically what incident was this?
>>748104743Skill floor was too high for normal gamers. LoL solves that and stole the crown
>>748104743move on unc.
>>748108360RTS as a genre was already on its way out when SC2 released. It was still popular in 2010, but especially after league got popular, RTS games just died. Now that it's been 15+ years, everyone who was mechanically okay with RTS games has either settled into their niches like AoE or has become so comfortable with ASSFAGGOTS that the idea of switching from controlling one guy with multiple abilities to a bunch of guys with different abilities is just too much for their brains to handle. This is not helped by the average LoL player being abused as a child, having the IQ of a 3 year old and the temperament of someone on steroids and PCP.
>>748121209the point of any strategy game's unit icons is to be able to glance at them and instantly understand which is whichthose are blurry and the colors are far too similarTWW3 had the same issue on launch
I waited for eleven fucking years for Starcraft II and I don't think I've ever played through it more than once. What a fucking travesty.
>>748118839>Bashes DoWII>By posting so far the worst DoW game
>>748123114We all were in the end disappointed with the end results.And Metzen didn't wanted to course-correct.
>>748118839Dawn of war 2 is superior and i hate 3, and 4 will be mshe-u primarshit.
>>748123114moment 1 was jim boo-hooing over a picture of kerrigan. i knew i was in for a rough ride.i did not expect just how rough hots and lotv would be. didn't even play lotv until a couple years ago when it was on sale for cheapo
>>748123114I played through WoL twice, hard then brutal, and HotS once. I never bothered with lotv, I would be willing to play the campaign once but it would cost me the price of the full game due to their>only available as a complete package with no discountpricing, so i don't.
>>748107010DOCK WITH MELIKE PLUMBERS DO
>>748116915>When everyone is shit at a game you get into some really silly and dramatic momentsthat's pretty much the only time when any RTS is fun for me. when people don't know the meta yet and it's a lot of just messing around and throwing shit at the wallhalo wars really was the best for that. I wish HW2 wasn't so dogshit
>>748116915>When everyone is shit at a game you get into some really silly and dramatic moments.me and my friends playing battle for middle earth 2 at the internet cafe.such a goddamn mess but oh so fun
>>748123325>>748123114I remember waiting a few days after launch.The editor user agreement gave me pause, but told myself that customs would still be good and the rest of the game fine.The missions and upgrade systems in the campaign of WoL was fine, but the difficulty was undertuned. Even on brutal as a first timer I didn't use any of my credits until the final mission.As an RTS I didn't like it.The UMS scene was worse than I had expected, since there was no proper way for your games to be seen. You could sit with 7/10 people in a lobby, but that specific map hadn't been played within the last hour, so it was at the bottom of the list for everyone, good luck finding it on page 54 of custom games, behind a hundred empty lobbies.The last time I gave blizz money.
>>748118171The world champ zerg player was a bitch and killed the game for $60kZerg players are just a bunch of niggers
>>748123178DoW2 - Moba with a few support units and no base buildingDoW3 - RTSSimple as.
>>748115387>God forbid a game should reward itYeah, a strategy game really shouldn't.
The biggest issue with Starcraft 2 was that they launched the game with the default game speed in Multiplayer set to Faster.It was too fucking fast. DPS was way too fucking high. Shit was over in a split second and it wasn't humany possible to micro well enough to stop it even at the absolute top level.At my best i was SHIT at SC2 and I was still playing at >250 APM. It was insane.
>>748124171The worst part was the forced latency, it killed all fine control based UMS. I was big into the SotiS scene, SC2 dota, and the largest factor that drove the in house scene away to Dota 2 and LoL was the latency.
I think one of the problems is that RTS fans are incredibly demanding.They wouldn't really accept anything worse than DoW while the average consoomer would choke on Vulverine slop and ask for more.
>>748126034I think there's potential for more campaign focused rts, but expectations need to be tempered and the devs need to be clear they're not trying to make another epic esports.
>>748121790Artosis got cheesed during a SC match or something like that and had a catastrophic meltdown on stream
Starcraft died under its own success, back in the late 90s everyone played casual Starcraft while gookclickers were left in the corner.By SC2 only gookclickers remained and casual RTS players were shut out by both the gookclickers and late 00s Blizzard themselves.
>>748126264You're going to have to be more specific, that's literally every Artosis stream.
>>748126207There certainly is but most campaign focused people will compare new games to once again the mastodons of the genre like WC3, SC1, DoW, CnC and I don't think it's easy to make something of this caliber for the modern developers.Hell, even Relic is incapable of making DoW 1 again.
>>748108360Too much focus on ladder, and custom games never got all that popular since the editor was incredibly complex, Blizzard wanted total control over anything created with it, and regular game dev tools were becoming more commonplace (so why bother making a mod for some other game when you could make a fully-original game and sell it?)
>>748119341>it has more shit and more strategy and deeper stuffHave you even played SCFA at a high competence level?
>>748125098real strategy games like chess are turn basedgames like starcraft are games of skill and games like supcom are for midwits
>>748117547Low graphics SC2 looks really different to that, I think it's just really low "bitrate" in the gif for want of a better word
>>748104743It was the best of times too
>>748114153bet you dont know anything about either game. Your WoW retail gripes probably have something to do with gay characters, when the audience is like 30+ and only care about instanced content. SC2 suffered audience loss because mobas are easier and less stressful, blizzard killing the competitive home grown scene, heart of the swarm being terrible with the swarm hosts etc. The final version of the game now is actually such a good RTS that noone can make a better one. If you want RTS its SC2, and age of empires and that's it.
RTT >RTS
>>748108360Playing multiplayer RTS is just not enjoyable.
>>748128615MOBAs have less mentally retarded pacing, more like.
>>748126329link a meltdown as severe as the one being discussed
>>748127581Retard.>>748128615LMAO.>Sheep for 10 minutes.>Base build and villager boom for 10-30 minutes.>Start-stop micro.>RPS.>Tiny maps.>No full map zoom.
>>748104743legit thought that was Factorio from the thumbnail
>>748107494ALLAHU SNACKBAR
>>748109134that sounds funny is there a vod?
>no Goliath, Firebat, Science Vessel, Vulture, Valkyrie and Wraith for Terran>no Lurker, Scourge and Devourer for Zerg>no Arbiter, Dragoons, Reaver, Corsair, Dark Archon and Scout for Protoss
>>748104743>>there was a time where this was the biggest eSport in the worldit still is
God I hated SC2. Something about the first game was more approachable somehow. I member frantically clicking like a mad cunt to build the perfect anything and it wasn't worth the stress. Rewarding when you completely obliterate your enemy I guess. Those early AI 'toss mirror matches also turned me off the game for good. Seeing pure stalker micro rape their supposed counter: immortals, made me realize this is a game for true spazztards and AI.
They fucking KILLED the custom game scene.Fuck blizzard forever, they deserve hell.
I tried looking through the cinematics of Lotv.Absolutely unbearable, just complete Marvelslop. How the fuck did Blizzard get away with the whole>Corruption and>We must unite against a common foeFor almost every fucking game they have?
>>748106542>Mini
Korea Time happening in 7 hours, please look forward to some hot & sexy ZvT featuring the pro players Shine and Rush.
>>748131167>We must unite against a common foeIt's funny how common this was used in WarCraft 3 through WoW.
>>748130734https://www.youtube.com/live/rvGdUfDoCoY?t=21074sGame starts at this timestamp 5:51:16intro starts at 5:41:19with Smix interviewing them before the gameit's a 2vs2 TTvPPIdra and Tod casting
>>748131568This ro8 sucks ass. Hell, this ASL and the last five ASLs have been shit. I'm so tired of zergs winning because mapmakers are retarded.
>>748104743
>>748124214>Zerg players are just a bunch of niggersThat sounds about right.
ITT: People racing to prove in what way, exactly, RTS is the most toxic and tryhard genre that died for a reason
>>748118839DoW1>2>3 and I can only assume that 4 will continue the trend
>>748109629>why the mine didnt zoomDO NOT REDEEEEEEEEM
I think it's funny that supreme commander autist/bar autist (are they different people?) keeps saying how strategic his game is but if you ask him what kind of strategies he uses in game he will say shit like "going air" or "going econ" which makes you wonder if the game is actually retarded or if he just doesn't know how to explain it.>>748131751did flash finally retire? the last asl I watched was the one where he lost to soulkey I think.
>>748131927How is a single player genre toxic?
>>748132267flash has retired at least five or six times by nowhe'll be back and probably try to shill another rugpull crypto in the meanwhile
>>748104743koreans have such shit taste
>>748132306>single player genreAh, trying that new-age "manifestation" thing I seeGood on you, keep going
>>748132267Econ and air are legitimate roles that communicate what you're going to do but only matter in the context of team matches. Nutriments Nigger is incapable of explaining himself because he doesn't understand people.
95% of RTS players will never, EVER touch multiplayer no matter how much effort you put into it. The fact devs still talk about e-sports at all shows how deeply PvP culture had poisoned the genre and this is exactly why all new RTSes fail. Do not give undeserved resources and respect to a niche that the vast majority of your buyers will never touch or care—otherwise the genre will have deserved its utter death.Don't let /v/ sweatcucks speak for the fanbase just because they're more tryhard at pointless apm spam due to literal autism. THEY HAVE NO SAY IN THIS. They are the smallest niche of an already niche genre.Multiplayer game design is anti-RTS. Developers purposefully avoid cool units, mechanics and campaigns which are the heart and soul of RTS for the sake of le balance. The delusional elitist comptards have been killing RTS for too long.>Blizzard say 80% of players left after finishing the campaign, and the vast majority of the remaining 20% play arcade and co-op>HerA says 99% of AOE2 players don't touch multiplayer>Ashes of Singularity devs literally say only 2% of all players have ever CLICKED on the multiplayer buttonYou may SEETHE, you may COPE, but RTS is a SINGLE PLAYER ONLY genre.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghc2-jRkoN4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XehNK7UpZschttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKMrTgmivEk
>>748132503Manifest my dick down your throat hahahaha you big gay
Didn't you need an insane amount of macro/micro paired with an APM that would speedrun you getting carpal tunnel in by the time you hit 30.
>>748132686Holy spelling errors forgive me I've been drinking.
>>748115168AUTISM IS MY SUPERPOWERSO IS MY MAZOR
>>748132612Yeah bro totally look at this chart I found!
>>748132612Anon are you possibly under the age of 20?That's just every single genre, you have a 80-20 ish split of casuals to hardcore gamers, thing is that companies really rely on the hardcore gamers to bring more casuals into the game through streaming, e-sports and related news, and similar media. You're just telling us that it is indeed a videogame genre.
>>748133230Pretty cool, still a single player genre
>>748106807>>748112247>>748112846>>748115168superior game coming through
>>748133230I see you are supporting his position with another chart of well documented data.
>>748133334Is that that absolute garbage BAR game that never gets talked about outside of these specific threads?
>>748105113really low
>>74813345615 os 5 chev detected
>>748133321>casualsYou misspelled "normal players", but that's okay, you're an oldfag after all, m i rite?
>>748133491>you're an oldfag after allNo, when it comes to 4chan I've only really started frequenting it around 2020, so I'm quite newHowever, casuals is just the colloquial term people use to refer to normal players, yes. You have such an intricate understanding of synonyms, proud of ya champ
>>748133571>However, casuals is just the colloquial term people use to refer to normal players, yes. You have such an intricate understanding of synonyms, proud of ya champSee, that's the funny thing. If someone plays TF2 and doesn't touch comp he's a casual even if he's played it for thousands of hours.I think your terms are simply retarded.
>>748133647>I think your terms are simply retarded.That's okay, we use language to communicate and it doesn't matter what you - one person - think about specific words or terms. They still have that meaning whether or not you approve
>>748132593I think SoTL even did another proper overview on it in AoE 2 and most players playing live were always playing campaign. The custom game and single-player/co-op scenes were and are the bread and butter of RTS. It's no wonder that the most fun I've had in them lately was with the chronicles campaign in AoE 2, and it's plenty tough in the hardest difficulty too.
why are the steam achievement stats so fucked up for aoe2? according to those barely anyone who owns the game actually beats the campaigns.
>>748134129Because nobody who actually pays for RTS plays the campaigns. The people itt wanking about campaigns don't actually play RTS.
>>748134198>Because nobody who actually pays for RTS plays the campaigns.xDD
>>748134129The cheevo stats are fucked up for any game, and there are many distinct campaigns for AoE 2 with so, so many pre-and-post DE expansions.For example, The DLC campaign achievements count in those players that don't even own the DLC.
>>748131568Oh shit there isn't a few weeks off? I thought the round of 16 just finished
>>748104743Oh look, its a thread where the 10 fans of the 4 RTS games people ever talk about fight.
>>748134237For example, this is the achievement for beating the Alexander DLC campaign. It's a single-player campaign, so there's no reason to NOT beat it if you buy it, as it's 90% of the content. It says 0,5% as it's being reflected towards everyone who ever owned the base game.The achievements didn't also work very well on release, and even now I have completed campaigns that don't give achievement credit, as I did them before the fix. However, I wouldn't use achievement metrics even if they were 100% accurate. They are pretty shit for every game in existence, and it's common to see shit like 50% of players barely beat the first boss of a game 1 hour in.
>>748134198Pretty sure its because the campaign is hot ass.
>>748134249There are only two week-long breaks in ASL;First: Between the ro24 and ro16, andSecond: Between semifinals and grand finals.
>>748134340>people fight in the war room
>>748126336And what did those games have, I wonder, that made them so unapproachable by devs 20 years later? What did they do that can't be done today?
Campaign onlys are right that a campaign is the most important part of an RTSBUTThe types of things campaign onlys actually want in terms of faction, unit, and mission design are atrocious and utterly antithetical to good game design
>>748134647>utterly antithetical to good game designOh, this will be good I bet. Go on, I'm all ears, what is good game design?
The Starcraft games had both good campaigns and multiplayer
>>748131568Fucking love Shine so much. The observer casually dropping in and doing quite well in tournaments is like if the ball boy ran onto the field and just started hitting dingers.
>>748134647>terms of faction, unit, and mission design are atrociouswhy does that matter to multiplayer? especially 'mission design' kek
>>748134727Not having absurd faction or unit bloat for starters. Having missions that actually present interesting problems to solve instead of build and destroy slop is another.All you need to do is look at the most popular mods for any RTS to see this is how your average “I only play against medium CPUs” would want games to be designed.
>>748118268bar is balance annihilation which is just total annihilation remade in a new engine >>748112962they managed to make an engine that can handle 150 players in a rts game the level of strategy in a regular 8v8 game cannot be achieved in any other rts simply because other strategy games have lower player count
>>748134924>Having missions that actually present interesting problems to solve instead of build and destroy slop is another.You mean that thing RTSfags have always wanted? Oh no, how daring.
>>748134924>All you need to do is look at the most popular mods for any RTS to see this is how your average “I only play against medium CPUs” would want games to be designed.Popular mod campaigns are usually designed for players who are looking for a challenge. Don't know what you're talking about kek.
>>748135020The vast majority of gamers just want to turtle for fifteen minutes, stare at their dudes, and then stomp with a giant deathwave
ITT: the same bitch and moans about esport for the 924753056 time
>>748135326>The vast majority of gamers just want tok buddy :D
>>748134924>most popular mods for any RTSAren't those usually focused on MP autists and have ballbusting difficulty, like Mental Omega and such?
starcraft is clunky thats why you need so much actions per minute to get the edge over your opponentthe actions you need to perform per minute to take a unit to its full potential is why starcraft is such a high apm rts, its because the players have to fight the clunkiness of the units having to micromanage a unit formations by performing single actions on each unit on screenand there's no zoom so you cant just zoom out and select everything you have to have hotkeys for every group you make to reach that group quicklyaoe2 takes too long to reach the fun zone, going through the ages just takes too much time even if high level players will start the aggression in the first 3 minutes, but its not really fun you're stuck with shit units and having to fiddle with the units like in starcraft just to have a proper formation, they finally added zoom to the remake but the other problems remaintotal annihilation remakes will have you fight from the first 90 seconds of a match and the pressure will be only released if you managed to stabilise the front after the first skirmishes
>WAAAHH WAAAAHH you need to be faster than your opponent to WIN!!!!!welcome to video games, bozzo.
>>748135357This is hardly new information, there's got to be twenty post mortems of cnc4 that point to exactly this being a major problem, iirc Chris Taylor spoke about it
you're not being faster when you're spamming hotkeys you're just making up for the game's lack of polish
>>748135832>cnc4No such thing, why do you have to make shit up?
>>748135879Unit control is a skill, it's something you can measurably do better or worse than another person, speed is one aspect of that
>>748135909kek
You should apply the same logic to fps, racing game or fighting game lmao.
>>748106413>RTSLiterally nobody plays them except a few boomers who grew up on this game
>>748108360>Balance got so utterly fucked that only terran is being playedYes, for all its faults the BW remaster never touched the race balance
>>748135832>Chris TaylorOh yeah, Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander were famous for their memorable campaigns.
