>>55812748You haven't see gen 10 yet
>>55812756Every Pokemon will have 600+ BST
>>55812756There will be a new tier under ZU.Ledian still remains unusable.
>>55812748excluding ubers/uubers which are banlists first and tiers second, it seems like the distribution is mostly OU/UU or PU/ZU with the mid tiers (RU/NU) having a combined population of 12, which is the same as UU and ZUso I guess most paldea mons are either overtuned or undertunedalso it'd be nice if there's images of current tier standings for mons of other gens for comparison
>>55812748No, Just because Game Freak made Gen 9 pokemon to thrive instead of forcing them to be KANTOOO's doormats, doesn't mean they are overtuned.
>>55812748>fanfic garbage
>>55812822>it seems like the distribution is mostly OU/UUImportant to note that "its distributed mostly in OU" means a lot less when the gen almost completely swept the previous OU metagame out the place
>>55812822Well its not great
>>55812756By Gen 11 Mewtwo will be OU, and it won't be exceptionally viable since Solgaleo, Dialga, and Magearna will keep it in check.
>>55812748Ogerpon is going to have two forms Uber in natdex.
>>55812977by gen 30 they'll have ran out of letters to use for tier namesyour favorite pokemon is probably going to be in one of the numbered tiers instead of the superior, lettered ones
>>55812964>arbok>not viablewho let that happen? it has a ton of tools now, that's just sad
>>55813438>who let that happenGame Freak
stop using flutter mane against me right fucking now
>>55813206Tier A-Z with Tiers 1-5 reserved for the true shitmons. Landorus is in tier 1.
>>55813438Doesn't really matter how good your movepool is when you have 60/69/79 bulk.
>>55812748Mew is in NU. I'd say yes.
>>55812748Lokix beating the PU allegations Best early game Bug ever
>>55812977Reverse power creep in the future is entirely possible due to the nature of dexit
wtf is Munkidori doing in NU
>>55813614i mean with alolan muk and klefki around it's not sweeping or anything. there are so many better mons in NU, you have mew, infernape, krookodile, fucking raikou and swampert, slowbro, sylveon... even in gen 8 a lot of these guys were UU and slowbro was OU...
>>55812748keep in mind that a lot of the lower tier ones are there because omgon banned their special moves. houndstone, orthworm, cyclizar, pawmot, and rabsca could just as easily be UUbers
>>55812748Hey OU can you please PLEASE take Cornerstone or at least give back Moth. It's not fair.
>>55813659lmao I forgot about that holy shit lol. Gen 9 is fucking insane.
>>55813659Rabsca would be awful even with Revival Blessing.
>>55812964What? Why the hell was Dugtrio banned from OU?I knew those drug-addled Smogon mods were out of their minds and ban anything and everything for no reason, which is why I quit playing their version of the game once I got a Switch and access to Battle Stadium, but.
>>55813911You think? Doesn't it get 2 revives with a Leppa Berry? That could be so problematic late game, they just bring back their 2 biggest threats
>>55814107Arena Trap/Shadow Tag makes Stall unbearable>Dugtrio traps and KOs you're wallbreaker>welcome to sixty turns of switching
>>55814159And that's one ability out of a possible four, so they banned the entire Pokemon?That picture doesn't say that Arena Trap is banned (which I already knew), but that Dugtrio is too strong for OU. How did that happen?
>>55813584It's a video game. They can do whatever they want. They could give Magikarp BST of 600 and make Mew, Mewtwo, and Kadabra your three starters and make them all evolve into Kangashkan at level 10.
>>55814242Sorry, I forgot to put this in the post but there’s a * in the image, because Dugtrio isn’t banned, just arena trap. But because Dugtrio would be in not viable without arena trap, and because its the only fully evolved Mon with arena trap, it felt disingenuous to put it so low.
>>55813659Revival blessing isn’t banned, even in zu. Rabsca is just that bad
>>55814242The didn't, only arena trap is banned. Dug is ZU and has been for the past three gens.
>>55812964Mew being NU is goddamn crazy. The speedcreep + psychic getting worse almost every game has been rough.
>>55813438>>55813467movepool isn't everything when stats and abilities matter toootherwise smeargle would be useful for more than just a suicide lead
>>55813438Arbok is a great example of a pokemon that has practically everything it could want except stats. Been in dire need of an evolution for a while.
>>55816471every time shaun the vorefag posts something involving that mon its evolution gets delayed a week
>>55816471Some Pokemon are victimized by Game Freak one way or another. Some more than others like Meganium (which gets way too much shit and hate from the community for Game Freak's bullshit).>>55816498That's Seviper.
>>55813438Arbok has a lower BST than Piloswine, Granbull, Cherrim, fucking SEAKING, and even early game bugs/birds like Lokix, Noctowl, Masquerain, Swellow, and Xatu. Hell, before it got +10 Attack in X/Y, it had a lower BST than Charmeleon. It's got a good ability, a good movepool, and a workable typing, but its stats are so dogshit as to not make it worth using ever. I say this as a huge Poison type fan who even ran Arbok competitively in Gen 5 and 6. Not even Coil and Glare can save Arbok.
>>55813519>Best early game Bug ever
>>55813911>even withIt still has it. Revival Blessing is too slow to be good in the current meta. Gen 9 is the most hyper offense meta ever, even Gen 5 seems slow by comparison.
>>55815510It's not just speed creep (though that's exceptionally bad since Garchomp is considered slow now), but power creep in general. Mew is also held back by being monotype Psychic, one of the worst monotypes in the game next to Bug, Normal, Ice, and Grass, and having a dogshit ability.
>>55816580Signaturecreep is a real bad problem too, ever since Galar most Pokemon usually wind up with a signature move and/or ability so absurdly good that it escslates their viability to unfathomable degrees.Garganacl's just another stereotypical pure rock on its own, sure, but then you get Purifying Salts and Salt Cure involved and the motherfucker has an extremely useful niche in status effect denial, durability against Ghosts, and Salt Cure opens up anti-Steel and anti-Water strategies. Recover's huge too of course, but it owes its power to that ability and freedom to scare off two types that would love to STAB it without consequence.Old Pokemon meanwhile are left to rot unless they get an evolution built off of them, never knowing those kinds of luxuries and being nonviable unless they have extremely good stats, an old reliable ability and solid coverage.
>>55816716Minecraft won
>>55816716>Old Pokemon meanwhile are left to rot unless they get an evolution built off of them, never knowing those kinds of luxuries and being nonviable unless they have extremely good stats, an old reliable ability and solid coverage.And some of those Pokemon are excessively shitted on and singled out for flaws they share with other Pokemon (that get a free pass because nostalgia popularity points).
>>55816716This is what I think the root of the problem is, modern pokemon almost all have gimmicks, but their gimmicks almost never come with a downside of having worse stats, so even if they didn't have the gimmick, they'd still be comparable to other pokemon
>>55816817Yup. As long as no ordinary Pokemon dares to cross the Arcanine BST Threshold, they can be as batshit broken as they want with no recognizable detriment. Meanwhile when they made powerhouses pre-Galar you had shit like Slaking's Truant or Archeops' Defeatist.
>>55812748No shit.The amount of ridiculous over the top fanfic romhack ten abilities in one abilities Gen 9 Pokemon got is obscene.With everyone and their mom getting signature moves that are three moves in one too.And then there's the copious amount of minmaxing.Minecraft salt is a prime example of this. If you'd shown that to anyone before Gen 9 came out they'd have told you to go back to your fanfic romhacks and that your shitty OP fakemon would never fly in an actual game.
>>55816888Meanwhile Pokemon like Meganium barely get scraps and are a laughing stock.It's fucking bullshit.
>>55816900I really wonder why GF decided to go full power creep this gen.You can tell they tried to fight against it in Gen 7 and in Gen 8 there's barely anything notable outside the DLC and even the ones outside the DLC like Dracovish and Rillaboom were accidents that GF never foresaw rather than being made broken as shit on purpose.
>>55816939It's especially funny how they thought the Hero Wolves were too egregious to go on without a nerf (mostly Zacian, but Zamazenta got fucked too for consistency), but then they go right ahead and introduce the Paradox Cyclizars, who are basically TWO Zacians all on their own with the added benefit of being able to run a held item to further increase their bullshit outputs, and all of their power and merits are tied to perpetual mechanics such as Super Effectiveness, Weather and Terrain rather than a generational gimmick like Dynamax.
>>55816971>Nerfs the dogs>Nerfs Calyrex Ice a little>Calyrex Ghost is untouchedFucking bullshit man.
>>55816996Ghost needs a massive cucking and buckbreaking.
>>55816996It's insane how many broken ghost types there have been since they removed pursuit and they STILL WON'T FUCKING BRING IT BACK
>>55817042Meanwhile Rock suffers.
>>55817049Rock's only suffering if it's not named Garganacl, who singlehandedly carries the entire goddamned type.Coincidentally, this is primarily because of its signature ability that makes it harder for ghosts to harass it.
>>55816548Didn’t get Speed Boost in its debut Gen
>>55817060Don’t forget Glimmora and Iron Boulder
>>55817042yeah it’s amazing how game freak balances around the actual game and not a clown fanfic format
>>55817251Yeah man because Pursuit was SO broken in doubles it needed to be wiped out for the sake of balance.Fuckmunch.
>>55817251Shadow Rider Calyrex is currently completely and utterly dominating VGC Doubles because there are no viable normal types so long as Urshifu's around, meaning you have no particularly safe options to contend against getting spammed by Astral Barrage and Surging Strikes.
>>55816900Meganium counters Minecraft Salt though
>>55817220>Iron BUUlderShitmon
>55817402>anything that isn't at the highest usage tier or banned from it is le shitmon
>>55817285That sounds so fucking cancer lol. Omgon really spoils us rotten heheh, they even got rid of shadow rider from ubers lmao
>>55817484Correct. Erect.
>>55817285>Shadow Rider Calyrex is currently completely and utterly dominating VGC Doubles because there are no viable normal types so long as Urshifu's aroundCalyrex is currently being "potentialmon"ed because it's had good but not overbearing success in early tourneys. It is early though, so who knows how it'll shake out.
>>55818081Based Jimothy Cool doing more to repair Smogon's image than Verlisify has ever managed to damage it. >Jimothy gets 100k views per video>Verlisify can't even get 10k anymoreFanfic meta WON
>>55818105Hahaa, and, might I add...HAAH
>>55818113Only thing I can see hampering its success is if people start pairing Flutter Mane + Koraidon. It'd form a Rock - Paper - Scissors meta where Miraidon + Iron Bundle counters Koraidon + Flutter Mane which counters Calyrex-S which beats everything else.
>>55818116How about W?Would you make me a sandwich?
>>55818121Don't forget the TR matchup surprisingly really bad for it. It matches up poorly into the premier setter in Farig because buttbuddy #1 Incin can't Fake Out, is threatened by Fake Out from some Farig partners itself, and rarely threatens to OHKO it with Knock, and buttbuddy #2 Mienshao just can't meaningfully hinder it any sense and is in turn threatened by +1 (off of Throat Spray Hyper Voice) Psychics.
>>55818129People will probably adapt by bringing Urshifu-S and going for the OHKO on Farigiraf. You can get away with running standard Choice Band Urshitfu because Farigiraf cannot afford to Tera without risking getting blown up by Calyrex. Even the most common defensive support spread gets OHKO'd by Urshitfu.>156+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 244 HP / 132 Def Farigiraf on a critical hit: 336-396 (148.6 - 175.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>>55818154I feel like Running Banded Urshifu in a meta where it'll be consistently outsped and attacked on it's weaker Defensive side more than ever (Miraidon, Calyrex itself, Flutter Mane having an ability without having to give up it's item slot due to Koraidon, the inevitable surge of Bundle that comes from both it having an items slot now courtesy of Mirai and being the ultimate speed control, etc) is going to be really risky. Though I guess that is the kinda thing you have to do when building around your restricted, given you could arguably have made the same case against Mienshao before it showed up solely to polish the cock of that Spectrier he's riding and do nothing else.
>>55818182Hey, it's still Urshifu. It might die to Miraidon and Koraidon, but it still punishes protect and is a good check on PsySpam. It also doesn't get its signature move neutered by Koraidon switching in even if it doesn't exactly like the matchup otherwise. Plus, it plays really nicely with Tailwind Tornadus, and I don't think Tornadus is going to lose relevance in Reg F and beyond. It managed to be relevant even in late Sword and Shield with 2 restricteds (including unnerfed Zacian)
>>55818261>>55818182I should also mention that Urshifu-S itself is a pretty good anti-Calyrex tech since it can survive and burst down both Calyrex forms.>252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 124 HP / 108 SpD Urshifu: 78-92 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO>252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 124 HP / 44 Def Urshifu: 127-151 (66.4 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO>156+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Calyrex-Ice on a critical hit: 212-252 (102.4 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKOI don't even need to post the Shadow Rider calc since we all know it's dying in a single Wicked Blow.
>>55813614people don't really know how to use it. its actually a great stallbreaker
>>55818274I doubt you'll ever get a raw Wicked blow off on an untera'd Caly. You're probably more likely to run into Caly Shadow that's already a fairy type or something.
>>55817251>GameFreak Balances around VGC mythFlutter Mane existsCalyrex-S existsDynamax existedMega Kang existedPrimals existedUrshifu existsEvasion existsMoody existsPrecipice Blades/Origin Pulse are still less accurate than Glacial Lance/Astral Barrage despite having same BP, targeting, and having no additional effects.There still exists hundreds of Pokemon that will never see the light of regular viability and usage because GameFreak simply refuses to buff them significantly and if they do it is while introducing more broken shit.Heavy Duty-Boots was created despite hazards having 0 affect on VGC or BSS.Gengar itself being nerfed solely to have its ability match the model.Stone Axe and Ceaseless Edge created despite only being useful in Singles.Etc.TRUTH is GameFreak doesn’t balance for shit.>B-but thing isn’t banned tho!!Only reason why shit isn’t banned is because VGC players have 0 input in tiering. Otherwise it’d be extremely similar to Smogon doubles if not basically identical with rules.
>>55820194>Flutter Mane exists>Calyrex-S exists>Dynamax existed>Mega Kang existed>Primals existed>Urshifu exists>Evasion exists>Moody existsall of these things are balanced if you actually know how to play the game.>Heavy Duty-Boots was created despite hazards having 0 affect on VGC or BSS.People use hazards in BSS.>Stone Axe and Ceaseless Edge created despite only being useful in Singles.Don't conflate singles with the clown 6v6 format.
>>55812748Absolutely, though I think part of it is that it has a lot of "Legendaries" in the Paradoxes.
>>55820197>all of these things are balanced if you actually know how to play the gameNo lmao.VGC players constantly complain about that shit too. It’s only a fringe amount of retards who can barely beat their friend’s ingame teams who think they’re fine
>>55820212>VGC players constantly complain about that shit tooNope.
>>55815510Ummm actually sweatie psychic is a good type!!!!111
>>55820247It is
>>55820249In Gen 1 maybe. After being beaten by the nerf stick for 20 years it's one of the worst types.
>>55820214https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P59ICVSwpMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1PT_pvVwmshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUzsSOvewmYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgbRPTF7Ai4https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-2024-regulation-g-metagame-discussion.3737377/post-10003465https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc-2024-regulation-g-metagame-discussion.3737377/post-10092889>inb4 “DOESN’T COUNT DOESN’T COUNT DOESN’T COUNT PLAY THE GAME PLAY THE GAME CAMPAIGNSHITTER!!”
>>55820269That tierlist putting Zacian on the same tier as Calyrex-S is enough to completely disregard it.
>out of all the pseudos, Smogon got filtered by the Ice type oneHow embarrassing
>>55820285Yup as predicted>”DOESN’T COUNT DOESN’T COUNT DOESN’T”
>>55820332I'm not even the guy you were arguing with (which is why I didn't bother with the rest of your post btw), Zacian just isn't a top dog heh anymore.
>>55820320Broken ability
>>55812748Yeah and they did that so that more of the new mons would show up at VGC to showcase how strong and better the current gen pokemon are compared to previous ones and they'll do the same thing for the next gen with even more grossly overpowered and overtuned pokemon
>>55820406>burn immunity is broken now
>>55820471As a 600bst ice/dragon physical attacker? Yes
>>55820489>the only way to deal with a physical attacker is burnskill issue
>>55812756What if gen 10 is nothing but old pokemon with retooled stats, types, abilities, and movepools so that they're all overturned too?I'm torn of whether I'd love that or not
>>55812748I was a Veluza believer
>>55820540It's one of the most reliable. That's how you win against Kingambit, for example. Baxcalibur had few reliable counters other than just sitting on it with an Unaware 'mon, and even then you couldn't really use Clodsire since Clod would die to Icicle Spear unless it Terastallized. That basically meant that you had to run either Dondozo or Skeledirge on every team, and Bax could still win the 1v1 vs Skeledirge with a lucky crit.
>>55821446It was okay before the DLC increased powecreep severely. Garchomp went from a very viable OU Pokemon to UU within 2 DLC waves. As it stands, its stats are too dogshit to make use of Fillet Away. At the very least it should have more SpA so it can be unpredictable. Even if its stats are underwhelming, the surprise factor of being able to go full physical, full special, or mixed would lead to it being able to overwhelm opponents like a scuffed version of Iron Valiant or Dragapult.
>>55820662I dunno if I'd trust modern Game Freak. They'd give Golduck some ability that summons Rain and Psychic terrain at the same time or some shit.
>>55816498>>55816514>they don't know that Arbok evolves into Seviper.
>>55822543Is this true
Yeah
>>55812748Get 10 will be even more bullshit
>>55824721>But power creep isn't real!
>>55820662Power creep infests every franchise and buries it every single time. Pokemon/League/Dota/Tekken/Yugioh/MTG it don't fucking matter
>>55822030>That's how you win against Kingambit, for example.I'm surprised burns are even happening in OU with Gholdengo AND Garganacl fucking around with their total immunity to status effects. That's TWO criteria you need to get rid of before you can start consciously burn fishing with Scald or risking Will-O-Miss.
>>55824894Or well, not total immunity in Dengo's case, but you still get the idea of what you have to put up with first.
Yes they are
Garchomp and Tyranitar had their time in OU. It's time to let things go anon.
>>55812748>be Pecharunt>worst 600 spread of all time>no moves>worthless gimmick ability>remain UU anyways because people have too much self respect to use ToxapexHilarious if you ask me
>>55820194keep in mind that for every shitter who parrots "lol fanfic format, i only play OFFICIAL stuff like vgc", you can remind them that fucking phione and manaphy and meloetta are still banned despite being able to be obtained in-game, not through events, and iron leaves isn't banned despite being tied to a limited time event.also smogon, as many clowns as they have, have actually payed out more money than vgc ever has
Are Galarian/Hisuian Pokemon overtuned? (I included a tier between PU and ZU because they just dropped yesterday and will likely push some of the current ZU mons into unviability)
>>55812748Tinkaton and Flutter Mane are great the rest suck desu
>>55812964>not in gameLMAO, feel good seeing fossilfags get btfo
>>55812748They wanted to make the new pokemon all good and not shitmons. Can't blame em. I think they did well. There are a lot of guys who you wouldn't think are good but they still have some niche in a higher tier.
>>55825979isnt zarude RUBL?
>>55826023I just included BLs with the tier above them since that is the lowest tier they can be used. >>55825979Also forgot that Frosmoth was ZUBL so put it in the tier above
>>55826011>feel good seeing fossilfags get btfoWho hurt you to be like this?
>>55825979>the worst galar starter is inceleonand everything is right in the world
>>55826011>>not in game>LMAO, feel good seeing fossilfags get btfo
RIP to Alola without Tapus and UBs
>>55826065hey at least Duskanroc is king of NU
This is so sad
>>55812748And I will always love youNo matter where you areWhat went wrong
>>55826108You know people will say this is a good thing for the sake of contrarianism. May these people have nothing but spite against them.>>55826011And may fossil Pokemon get something nice for once to generate seethe from you shitposters as well.
>>55826065are there even any viable hail setters in PU or is snowslash cursed to be in a tier where it can't make use of its one ability
>>55826108poor smogonbirdgot the gen 3 tier list?
>>55826223>Doesn't even run Gale Wings anymore Ouch
>>55826216Abomasnow is there I think
>>55826140getting the plass treatment instead of getting a real Pokémon game is indeed loosing
A lot of the fat was pruned off from Unova making it pretty balanced throughout.*Gothitelle was including with Uubers because its the only fully evolved Shadow Tag user and Shadow Tag is banned
>>55826274Where are you getting usage %s to know who dropped and not? I thought they didn't release them this month since they're no longer doing monthly shifts
>>55826286https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-zu-stage-8-hoopa-gangnam-style.3742431/“In agreement with official tier leaders, ZU has been allowed to conduct full drops for this month”
>>55812756This, those mons are going to be on ultra crack, I can feel it
>>55812748>delibird (but it's water type) in uberswhat the fuck? someone please explain
>>55827667
>>55812964I demand a Kanto* format that allows any regional form and cross evo/prevo from kantomons with the current gen gimmick(s) not only kanto classics
>>55812964gen1 and 2 pokemon need buffs urgently they needed them 3 gens ago, now, after a gen that powercreep the whole gen8 meta mons oldermons are literally unusable with very, very few niches
>>55816716old nerfed pokemon need their tools back to be viable again.Gengar, Talonflame and Aegislash to name a few may be welcome additions if they had their abilities/signature move back as they were
>>55816867>Archeops' Defeatista decade later and I still wonder who asked for this or who even came up with this shit
>>55828555Back then you weren't allowed to have over 555 BST without downsides, unless you were a legendary Arcanine used to be the highest BST non-legendary without a crippling ability
>>55816939>Gen 8 there's barely anything notableNegro Gen 8 was the start of this bullshit. Poke-Sif was fucking overpowered as shit and Dracovish + G Darmanatan are some of the most cancerous pokemon to have ever existed in the games.
>>55828619I unironically miss niggalarian Darmanitan
>>55812748the entire top row of OU except maybe Garganacl could (should) be banned without repercussions, amazing
>>55816716Thats why they should add more unique moves to old mons.Fact that Jiggly line still dont have Lullaby move (80proc acc hits all on field) move is really stupid.Or Give Wrap a boost it should use new mechanisms like dropping speed for target on turns its active.Marowak bonemerang should hit flying types SE. Many old abilities needs upgrades as well.Keen eye should also RAISE accuracy +10procStuff like Poison point and Magma armor should grant 40proc trigger so they wpuld be more viable
>>55816900Meganium is actually usefull.Have you seen Carnivine moveset?
>>55812748Does it matter? Half of those Pokemon won't contribute to the next generation's metagame, so if new Pokemon are introduced in SV only to be removed in the next game, it's not really going to cause that much of an issue later on.
>>55829737Power creep is out of control
>>55826140It is a good thing. Gen 6 ruined Pokemon with all of its shitty additions.
>>55812748>We're getting Megas on top of theseThis meta is beyond fucked
>>55816366>abilitiesArbok's abilities are great, with one of them (Intimidate) being arguably the best in the game, and another (Shed Skin) complimenting it's niche very well. It's literally just the stats that hold it back.
>>55833330I don't think there will be megas in gen 9, the PLA exclusives weren't transferrable in gen 8, so if we follow the same pattern, there will be megas in gen 10.
>>55812748Houndstone is AG.
