>Old Pokémon formula>This zone or Pokémon is blocked by a barrier until you unlock the new move after getting the gym badge.>New Pokémon formula>Pokémon levels actually limit the player and where they can go, and increase access to the world the more they progress.Why do we hate the open world again?
>>57206464you could literally skip the barriers at any time by jumping at the edge git gud
>>57206464That's great until the game gets easier when you go back into a low level area you missed and now you're higher leveled. Just have upward autoscaling to some degree and the game is perfect.
One accidental sequence break and you're so strong that you obliterate the rest of the campaign with no pushback whatsoever>This zone or Pokémon is blocked by a barrier until you unlock the new move after getting the gym badge.Literally when does this ever happen outside of Area Zero and the Elite Four HQ?>>57206734Do something like what they did in BotW where significant story beats increases an invisible progress level bar that makes stronger mobs spawn while not necessarily affecting every weak mob in the map.
>>57206734Bro? Your box?
>>57206464>Why do we hate the open world again?DSfags are fucking terrible at the games. Once you come to this realization, so many of their shitty takes suddenly make sense.
>>57206757>Literally when does this ever happen outside of Area Zero and the Elite Four HQ?OP means this is how it was in the older games, compared to how it is in the open world games.
>>57206765Fair enough. Although I prefer Gens 1 & 2's method of opening up the region slightly in the midgame over being free to explore the world from the get-go. The same issue arises though with beating the slightly stronger gym leaving you to obliterate the weaker one with no pushback.
>>57206464>Old Pokémon formula>Well designed>New Pokémon formula>Badly designedopen world isn't the problem, the game is
>>57206464open world games are dogshit and played out
>>57206775>here’s your well designed gameplay bro
>>57206781what's the problem with a funny dialogue?
>>57206757>One accidental sequence break and you're so strong that you obliterate the rest of the campaign with no pushback whatsoeverHow do you people imagine this actually happeningThe left and right both have a gradual progression into the 20-30 range, and even if you fully commit to one side you should recognize the level spike when you hit Larry or Atticus and realize you should probably cycle back around. The top section of the map is substantially stronger than everything else in the 40-50 range, along with the Earth Titan and the Psychic gym which are both obviously isolated.At worst you might overlevel three fights, if you were too stupid to just look at them on the map and read their description that tells you approximately how strong they are. All of the strongest fights are in isolated areas and/or on the edges of the map.
>>57206773>>57206775In Gen 2 the designated 7th Gym Leader is weaker than the 6th one.
>>57206802what's the problem with giving the player choice?
>>57206830do you think linearity is inherently a bad thing?
>>57206464I prefer the older formula
>>57206805>how stupid are you to explore in an open world game and defeat a boss ten levels higher than you instead of following the vaguely defined path?I really don't know what you want to hear, anon. If there was a specific path they wanted you to take then they shouldn't have given you the freedom to explore the region. Once you get surfing and the high jump you can easily make Paldea your bitch.
>>57206825Everyone acknowledges the Johto games are poorly designed
>>57206842this. people general refer to hoenn and sinnoh (maybe kanto)
>>57206835When the game has no difficulty (like the older games) and bad writing (like the older games) then yes. There’s literally no reason to make the game linear at that point.
>>57206842Truth nuke
>>57206837>If there was a specific path they wanted you to takeThere isn't. Nobody is arguing that there is except the autists claiming not fighting Katy first somehow ruined their experience and let them stomp the Level 60 full teams at the end of each path.
>>57206855>Nobody is arguing that there is except the autists claiming not fighting Katy first somehow ruined their experience and let them stomp the Level 60 full teams at the end of each path.Well I'm not one of those autists who think the freedom "ruined" my experience. I merely think that it would've been cool to go challenge Katy and she pulls out some level 60 lategame bugs. I don't think open world games are inherently bad. I just think ones that don't change significantly as you grow are no different from a linear game that's easy to sequence break in.
>>57206852Older games weren’t anything like that though. Your premise is fundamentally flawed.
>>57206464>old formula>game is balanced to prevent you from being overpowered past a certain point>each town and route is actually memorable >finding secret areas and talking to npcs grants you exclusive items, encouraging exploration >new formula>can just skip an area and return fully leveled up and overpowered, trivializing most areas>can easily catch fully evolved, including third stage and special evo, Pokémon easily and early on, making training pointless>most items, including evo and held items, can just be found scattered randomly in infinite quantities, making exploration pointless>not a single area is memorable due to basically none of it matteringThis is the fundamental problem with open world pokemon. Nothing fucking mattersModern Zelda too
>>57206929At least modern Zelda tries to implement a check to your lategame overpowered-ness in the form of mob spawns getting beefier as the story progresses.
>>57206929do you think something like genshin would work for pokemon?
>>57206734Just use different Pokémon? How is that a problem? You're supposed to use more than 6 mons. You know that, right?
>>57206952basically this>old games>use a team of 6>new games>use multiple teams
>>57206952Games are supposed to be balanced in a way that prevents the average player from abusing obvious meta strategies.
>>57206952Constantly hotswapping your team fucking sucks though, I barely got to use my starter in SV because it was frequently outleveling everything in the game even when I tried following the "suggested" route thanks to exp share and no level scaling. I had a """team""" of like 12-14 Pokemon, most of which being exp sponges because the game had absolutely no checks and balances at all. No idea how SV completely fucked it up when PLA seemed just fine in regards to enemy levels.
>>57206464I'd prefer The Forest's system, the first few days the encounters are few as you get familiar with the mechanics, as the days go by so does the level and difficulty of the enemies and as you explore more you face advanced enemies in caves and get better resources, but now these enemies roam freely around the peninsula.I think this could be implemented in an open world with horde Pokemon, powered up forms functioning as sub-bosses, and mixing it with story elements (like a villainous group releasing high level Pokemon at some point) in such a way that it feels organic that when you go back through an area there are new challenges.For example, near the starting town there is a forest full of Combee and low-level Teddiursa, a miniquest asks you to obtain honeycombs, some time later you have to return and now the forest is full of Ursaring due to the honey shortage, now the Tediursa had to evolve to compete for resources, in the final third you have a sidequest that asks you to catch a rare white basculin, since it is Basculin season this has attracted the oldest pokebears from the mountains and distant areas, being multiple Ursaluna of high level.
>>57206929>game is balanced to prevent you from being overpowered past a certain pointThe old games let you just skip gyms and you've always been able to just grind through anything. Anti-grinding mechanics weren't implemented until Gen V.>can just skip an area and return fully leveled up and overpowered, trivializing most areasHow do you get "fully leveled and overpowered" if you're not engaging with the content?If you're just grinding like a retard you have always been able to do that>can easily catch fully evolved, including third stage and special evo, Pokémon easily and early on, making training pointlessYou are completely talking out your ass holy shitScarlet and Violet are the first and only games in the series to enforce obedience on your own Pokémon. Even if you sequence break and catch something in a high level area (stupid and unlikely because overleveled Pokémon get big catch rate penalties) it won't listen to you until you actually get enough badges.These are also the first games where badge scaling is reasonable and you can't completely trivialize them by trading over Level 50 fully evolved Pokémon halfway through the game.Raids also scale with your badges, you get 3-Star raids max until you have six badges and you can't get 5-star or better (where the high-level evolved Pokémon start showing up) until the postgame.
>>57206781this is good actually
>>57207009>The old games let you just skip gyms Rarely. And it's not something most people did, since you had to think outside the box to do it.>If you're just grinding like a retard you have always been able to do thatYou'd be stuck grinding with low level Pokémon. Now you can grind in one are, then move onto a higher level area next, maybe even a whole quest.
>>57206464who wants more barebones empty botwslop clones
>>57206970>old games>use a team of 6Only people who are dogshit at the games do this.
>>57206464The only issue was that they didn’t scale the bosses with your boss progress. The map is good as is
>>57206883>Older games weren’t anything like that thoughYes they were.>>57206929>old formula>game is balancedNice lie.
>>57207149>The map is good as isIt's a barren wasteland. Not a single area is memorable
>>57207163Then why do I remember them?
>>57207104Scarlet and Violet have EXP scaling, like every game since Gen V except XYEven if you're grinding very high base EXP Pokémon like Chansey, you're going to be getting very low returns if you're 20 levels higher.Grinding raids is an option, except raids scale with your badges and low-tier Raids are even worse for EXP than just grinding wild Pokémon. And if you're going to cooperate with other people you might as well just trade a stronger Pokémon over, except that's also much more restricted than in any previous game.It is very obvious that you have not tried to play the game like this, and it's pretty embarrassing to make up things to complain about on here.
It is pretty interesting how sagefag, who constantly insists that it’s impossible to overlevel in gen 5 without grinding thanks to the curved exp, also perpetually bitches about gen 7+ overleveling you, despite gen 7+ having the exact same curved exp mechanics.
>>57206464the game sucks because I only have a smartphone so I can't play it
>>57207208you don't, you're just a contrarian faggot
>>57207281smartphones can play better looking games than SV
>>57206989What the hell are you talking about? There is no meta strategy in "use mons appropriate for the current level". That's literally just letting the player decide how difficult they want the game to be.>>57206991I dunno, I didn't think it was so bad. I just had like 2 teams of which I sometimes switched some members if they got too overleveled or underleveled, sometimes a mon is just not good enough and faints too much. Honestly the only thing I would change about EXP is giving fainted mons EXP as well cause otherwise your strong mons who win the battles get EXP even though they don't need it, and the weaker ones don't get shit even though they could really use a level up.
>>57207294>you don't,I do
Just a reminder that most of the retards in this thread are someone's childrens
>>57207415name 10 of them without looking on the wiki
>>57206761How does someone being bad at games mean they hate open worlds?And why do you think DSchads are bad at the games?
>>57207423The fuck are tou trying to say
>>57207447Poco Path, Los Platos, Mesagoza, Cortondo, Alfornada, Medali, Cascarrafa, Glaseado Mountain, Ruchbach Squad Base, Naranja/Uva Academy, Levincia
>>57206952>You're supposed to use more than 6 mons.Where in the game does it say to do this? Or did you just make this up and expect the world to follow your headcanon?
>>57208337It's inherent with how EXP share works.
>>57206734Yeah, this is my issue. It doesn't matter for generics, but I wish there were some level scaling for gym leaders. Maybe even give them different teams, too, depending on when you fought them.
Pokemon has always been shit and the only reason it's never been required to genuinely and meaningfully improve its formula is because its mediocrities were initially covered up by novelty at the time of Red and Green (151 unique monsters without palette swaps, multiplayer battling and trading on a handheld device) and then further masqueraded by Pokemon's very nature as an easily merchandisable concept, distracting everyone from the game's flaws with toys, trading cards, an anime and everything else, and all of it did such a good job that Pokemon, once it hit overseas, had no reason to give a fuck about criticism, because it had already cemented itself as a Forever Franchise due to the sheer marketing hype that built it up into a "sells 15 million units minimum guaranteed just because people saw the brand's extremely iconic logo on the box and associate that logo with fond childhood memories from simpler rose tinted times that weren't actually all that great".
>>57206464>Why do we hate the open world again?Because every single open world is the same, you play one, you played them all. It's formulaic and boring. It doesn't matter if it's a Pokemon skin, Medieval skin, or Gacha skin, they are all the same. Linear games ironically allow games to be more distinct from each other.
>>57206464>Pokémon levels actually limit the player and where they can goExcept, they don't. Oldfags like me exploit that shit. I explored nearly the entire region before I got my first badge. I even managed to scale the crater and gain access to the League early.
>>57208343Than why does it only go to 6 mons, and not all the mons in the box? Or better yet, fuck it, have an item that you can buy that gives EXP to a pokemon in the box, despite not being in the party? That's what they would do if you were right and not full of shit.
>>57206464God the Open World in SV was so lackluster
>>57206464The illusion of choice. Only one path/configuration is the most optimal.
>>57206464It's meant to encourage replayability, but people dont replay as much nowadays especially if that means losing pokemon you collected from trades and events.
>>57207447Sombreroute, tacoroute, burroute-o, nachoroute, routequila.
>>57207325But not emulate it
>>57206464>Pokémon levels actually limit the player and where they can goThey don't though now that there's no random encounters.
>>57206825>>57206842The irony is that such design issue is at play in Paldea too.If you wanted to challenge everything "in level order" you basically have to avoid all battles both wild and trainer at certain points because the curve is too close together.
