So is a large dex a good thing or bad thing?
>>57221438The second thing is only shill cope to defend the dexcut. No one ever said, not even the revisionists who will reply to this post.
>>57221438Good thing, always.
>>57221438>Gen 1 & 3 - Perfect>Gens 2, 4 & 5 - Poorly designed but not bloated>Gens 6+ - Bloated
>>57221438Like not having HMs, it's a good thing that DSfags straw grasp into pretending is a bad thing because they're disingenuous and have to shit on anything the newer games do so they can feel better about themselves.
The size of the Sinnoh Dex isn't bad, but there a-lot of mons you guys never use or care about.>Finneon>Chatot>Carnivine>Purugly>Stuntank>Bronzong>Chingling>Bonsly>Mime JrThen there is like Spiritomb or Vespiquen who are great by have insane unlock requirements so kids never see them on a normal playthrough.
>>57221438everybody uses the same 6 pokemon in swsh doeever
>>57221438The "dexbloat" conversations weren't a thing until Gen 8, which suggests people don't actually care about having a large dex and rather they care when the game dumps 50 Pokémon lines on you within a half hour, which I understand more.
>>57221438>Gen 1, 3 & 5 - Perfect>Gens 2 & 4 - Poorly designed but not bloated>Gens 6+ - Bloated
>>57221518blud thinks he’s on the team
>>57221438
>>57221472Why would you say they’re poorly designed?
>>57221438I think bigger dex is better, the bigger the better. I wince when seeing channers and redditors complaining that a romhack dex has too many mons. More mons = more replayability, more opportunities to use things you haven't before.
>>57221540He didn’t play them as a child
>>57221526Kek>>57221537Super kek
>>57221438Always good
>>57221438Theyre only a problem if theyre available early on. You should be forced to only use the new region pokemon in the 1st part of your playthrough and only get access to the others near the end game/post game
>>57221438It's different people complaining. Personally I like a smaller dex where you only get new Pokemon before post game (the Gen 1/Gen 5 model). There are others that like a large dex with a huge swath of Pokemon from all gens to choose from right from the start (the Gen 6, 7, 8. 9 model). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
>>57221540Gen 2 doesnt need to be explained if you played them but its a lot of Kanto, and a lot of repeating Pokemon over and over.Gen 4 because fire types and aforementioned lot of useless linesGen 5 because they have to keep populating routes with the same lines in an effort to make their “reboot” concept work.
>>57221557Gen 3 also has only Hoenn pokemon until after Roxanne, which feels like a good compromise
>>57221562>until gym 1That wasn’t a compromise, it was fear, which fortunately faded away with gen 5
>>57221562Something like that could definitely work, but I'm not sure how you could do that in an open world game. I guess if it was partially open, like PLA, and had the first zone or two be all new, then later ones added older Pokemon.
>>57221438>game with large dex>everyone injects>game with small dex>everyone injectsDoesn't seem to matter either way but trannies like >>57221493 keep bitching anyway.
Theres no such thing as bloated dex.
“dex bloat” is a problem that was invented completely out of thin air for genwarfags to circlejerk about
>>57221472this is objectively wrong. Gen 3's dex is horrible, and Gen 2's (crystal's) is not bad, if you're willing to put some elbow grease into it. The problem with Gen 2 is not the distribution but the fact that most mons have shit movepools making them annoying to use. Gen 4s is horrible and inexcusable. And the wide variety in dexs after 6 is the only redeemable quality from those games.
>>57221562If Gen 2 did this then it would get shit on for it
>>57221613lmao no, gen 2's dex is absolute dogshit and by far the worst>bro lets make a new type then only let the player get one of them through eevee before the postgame
>>57221613explain in-depth with examples
>The dex is bloated! >The dex cut is bad! No wonder the other boards keep making fun of you all the time
>>57221630>>57221622https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DJO_854H2NUjvSqQkpWp62U7LDINKoUqNrON6udbukA/edit?usp=sharingThis document shows all the Pokemon you can obtain before the E4 in each 3rd version game. Crystal has the most before Gen 6. Gen 3 and 4 having such dogshit availability is completely inexcusable. Especially in 3s case since they prevented tradebacks to the first two gens.
>>57221635i never transfer pokemon and the cut hasn't affected me at all, but i hate the cut only because I don't want Gamefreak cutting corners and being lazy dickheads while charging $60
>>57221438>"There are too many Pokémon in my Pokémon game!"Nobody actually believes this. They're just pretending to piss you off.
>>57221438I prefer having a bloated dex
>>57221503Keep trying to force your retarded raid lingo, underage dumbfuck. I'm sure it will catch on
>>57221642thats’s just showing me how dogshit the johto availability is lol>want murkrow?>no have pidgey on every route
>>57221642Crystal might technically have the most Pokémon but the amount of breeding, grinding and trading you'd have to do to accomplish that doesn't reflect a typical player's experience. And it's not even 10 more total Pokémon than Emerald and Platinum. The difference between it and Emerald can be accounted for with the Eeveelutions and Hitmons alone, nobody doing a normal playthrough is getting more than one of either of those even if you technically could breed more and spend hours waiting for a random phone call to get an evolution stone.
>>57221798>MUHH DARK TYPES
>>57221806>Pokemon are actually rare and hard to findThis is actually based
Yes the entire dex needs a redesign, including types, stats and the combat system. Everything.But it will never happen. So shut the fuck up and schlop the slop, loser
>>57221811>want a new fire type that isn’t your starter?>too bad, slugma and houndor are mia >better hope the odd egg gives you magby>have fun fucking with your time to get a hopefully get a fire stone behind a rng phonecall for growlithe
>>57221438Top>everyone who's played it has fond memories of the journey, have a good laugh about each other all having the same 5/6 slotsBottom>no sense of unity, nobody likes talking about the playthrough, nobody cares about your personal experience and special snowflake teamSeems to me like the secret formula is having an awe-inspiring but coherent dex with meaningful and satisfying choices even if few and far between.
>>57221816>rare and hard to findEevee and Tyrogue are given to you for free
>>57221501I mean this in a literal sense: Nobody cares.They may be dex filler but that's good for giving NPCs stuff to work with which, because you won't use yourself, never become stale.
>>57221837Tyrogue only if you go through exploring an optional dungeon. And there are a bunch of other hard to find mons besides them.
>>57221829Top>everyone agrees that the game gets stale because there's no fun mons to use. Bottom >Everyone has fun sharing their unique combinations of the mons available, and discussing the few times there are overlap. I swear this board is allergic to actually complaining about the things that matter. Large dexes are quite literally the only good thing about modern pokemon games.
>>57221438Region/Game identity isn't defined just by the dex, there are characters, story, locations, minigames etc
>>57221811>make new type >barely available in the game>HURR DIS GAME HAV GOOD AVAILABILITY BECAUSE IT SPAMS RATTATA AND PIDGEY ON EVERY ROUTE WITH LOTS OF DOGSHIT LIKE DUNSPARCE BEHIND 1% ENCOUNTER RATESkek
>>57221501I've used mr mime and bronzong before
This board is unsalvageable.
>>57221438Pokemon Legends Arceus convinced me you can have a smaller regional dex (only 242 total) without making the roster feel restrictive, so I'd say I'm more on the anti-big dex side.That game also rolls out Pokemon much more gradually, each little piece of the map is home to a couple lines, with a few being present throughout the whole area.
>>57221870Rare Pokémon are cool, but Johto has a ton of Pokémon that are unreasonable even if you know exactly where to look for them.Last time I played Crystal I wanted to use Teddiursa, which you can technically get before the first Gym, but it's exclusive to Dark Cave at a 5% encounter rate only in the Morning (4AM-10AM) AND if you do find one it has a 50% chance to fucking flee the battle like you're in the Safari Zone. You have a roughly 1/6 chance to catch one at full HP, they're only found at Level 2 so if you try to weaken it you're likely to accidentally kill it, and again it can just end the battle on a coin flip every turn and you have to hit the 1/20 chance to find it again in your limited window of time each day.There are also Phanpy on Route 46, which have exactly the same encounter and catch rates as Teddiursa. Both of these Pokémon are also fucking terrible, with barren movepools and late evolutions (by Johto standards), completely outclassed by the Geodudes you can find both locations at 10x the encounter rate with no bullshit and a type advantage against the first three Gyms. Even if you know they're there, why go through the trouble of seeking them out?At least their evolved forms are available much more commonly later, so you don't have to put yourself through this. But they're not available until after Claire's Gym, so you miss the entire experience of going through Johto with them, and at Level ~30 you have a lot of work to do if you want to use them for the Elite Four.Johto is full of Pokémon like this (some of them aren't even in Johto), many Johtomons are both more rare and harder to use than Kanto mons, if you even have the option to use them at all.
>>57221438Well, well, at least you could include Roserade.>>57221982Phanpy and Donphan are ruined by their shitty movepool but Teddiursa is an excellent mon in Crystal. It has a very high attack stat (80) for the early game, so its catch rate is tough, it is very strong but you never feel it broken. It can survive without problems until level 30 and it learns many TMs. It was one of my MVP recently.
>>57221933when I ran out of pokemon to catch aside from the genies and God I also just stopped playing the game
>>57221438A smaller dex is fine if there aren't so many shitmon in it.
>>57221876>everyone agrees that the game gets staleyou aren't meant to replay Pokemon games multiple times, *especially* as an "adult"
>>57221933i don't think a shitty catching simulator with its small dex spread thing across 5 hideous unity maps is a good argument.
>>57221982man, Johto sure is fucking garbage and the worst designed classic region
>>57221888Steel types aren’t much better. 2 trade evos, Forretress in headbutt trees, and Skarmory so hidden everyone assumes it’s from Hoenn.
>>57222102not every game has to be 100 hours of grinding and teambuilding to be good or fun
>>57221982Teddiursa is actually pretty good in game. Especially since you get headbutt so early. 1/6 ain't even that bad.
>>57221613Gen 2 has dogshit movepools AND dogshit distribution AND dogshit level balancing. I genuinely do not like replaying that game because of how bad it is to actually play.Gen 3 has much better variety, much better movepools, and it offers you more new/actually good Pokemon much sooner than gen 2. The gulf between those 2 gens shows that Gen 2 was just throwing shit at the wall without a plan and with Gen 3 they actually put some effort in.Gen 4 was better than 2 which is just sad for Gen 2.
>>57221438i have never, not ONCE had a problem with "too many pokemon lines" when actually playing, but i have had problems with continuously running into the same lines over and over.
smaller, tight dex has always been better, only contrarians disagree
>>57221438Playing through B2W2 on release was kind of a neat, new sort of experience, given the regional dex felt like twice the size of the usual. It's like Game Freak themselves went back to make a romhack based on BW and added a bunch of shit while writing a sequel story. The first few areas giving you babymons like Azurill, Riolu and Elekid/Magby was wild.Then came XY and it felt like the regional dex being ginormous was made into a feature in its own right with Central/Coastal/Mountain dexes. You really had to stay in one place for a while to exhaust all the species you could find without relying on a written guide. Almost overwhelming at times, and I'm a huge collecting nut who loves filling up the dex.I enjoyed how Sun/Moon made even individual patches of grass within the same area have distinct encounter rates, like earlygame Pichu being only in a few specific spots. That way Alola felt suitably small as a region made of a couple islands while maintaining a large variety of Pokemon (that last part in itself being for better or worse).With Paldea, I'm not sure what to think. The fucking raid dens are super convenient from a collecting standpoint, but immersion suffers far worse than with traditional random encounters. Sometimes certain Pokemon appear way outside their 'usual' range in the overworld which is kinda neat. 400 Pokemon is still a huge regional dex but I'm loathe to point that out when the games no longer include NatDex/compatibility with all existing species.
Large dex of new Pokemon introduced in the region gives you identity without every team being the same.
>>57222164I wasn't grinding or teambuildingI explore and catch pokemon because it's fun
>>57221501I’ve used everything here except the babies
A dexcut because they're thinking about what will make the game good could be good. For example cutting a mon because it doesn't fit the setting for whatever reason.A dexcut because:- they didn't hire enough people- they can't optimize their game- they split their teams between 2 games- they want to pressure people to rent Home- they want to pressure people to play Go, Unite, Mastersex etc- they want to pressure people to buy DLCand so on will never be a good thing, and if they weren't doing all of that, it would be far less controversial
>>57222216>bort doesn't like more pokemonA tale as old as time
I care more if they plan out the encounters wild Pokemon in a way that gives you fun or purposeful uses instead of throwing whatver the fuck. Basic examples >Gen 1 if you picked Charmander or Pikachu, Butterfree can sweep brock>Gen 1 if you walk ahead you can get an over leveled Dugrio to sweep Surge and it'll last you a while>Gen 1 you can get Chansy who walls Erika, Sabrina, Blaine, and most of the elite 4>Gen 1/2 Rock is incredibly weak but it resists the most common attacks>Gen 2 if you walk a tiny bit ahead Magnemite hard walls Morty and Team Rocket>Gen 3 Pickup from Zigzagoon gets you helpful items and you keep them aroundGen 6 just throws a bunch of high power sweepers at you with nothing to resist them and its boring. Ill never defend outright cuts, i just want a thoughtful mix.
>>57222444it's funny when people confuse being bad at the game for thoughtful game design
>>57222386That's not what he said at all
>>57222444I got a new respect for the kanto remakes when i actually went and finished FireRed for the first time.The gen 3 updates like abilties and new typings jsut kinda tacked on wholesale made things pretty nightmarish compared to how it originally was. Like I'm fairly certain Cubone being in Pokemon Tower was to have a Ground type to counter all the ghost/poisons but then those asshole have Levitate now eat shit. Or the first round of abilities are largely total cancer like effect spore, poison point, cute charm on every other trainer. its funny as fuck
>>57221506Reasonable take, and it's likely more of a balancing act than anyone in your average /vp/ thread will care to discuss in detail.On one hand front loading new spawns so you encounter 80% of everything within the first few gyms borders on overwhelming and makes the rest of the game feel boring since there's little new to discover. On the other hand, by the time people get to the end of the game people may be more reluctant to shake up their team composition if it's been solid up until that point. On the third hand also known as the penis, the new games dump so much exp on you that you pretty much have to shuffle your team around to avoid being over-leveled anyway.
>>57221444I've said that about X/Y thoughbeit.Even though it also ends up like that top because of all the gift pokemon.
>>57221444>The second thing is only shill cope to defend the dexcuthow does that make sense when it's only said about the gens that have a decut
>>57221822schlop schlop schlop
>>57221501nah I love purugly
>>57222454IDK what you're saying. I posted that well aware that you can just over level any starter to sweep through the game, I'm just describing that there is some amusing payoffs if you decide to detour in some of that earlier games
>>57222454What's your ball rank?
>>57222340we dont do nuance here
>>57221438Top is a shitty meme only projecting bad players believe Bottom is legitimate criticism
>>57222581> only said about the gens that have a decutthat's not the case though.
>>57224093>ITS THAT A TRAPINCH?>NOOOOOOOO IDENTITY LOOOOST
>>57224108Nobody would be talking about bloat if it was just Trapinch.
>IS THAT SOMETHING ELSE THAN A SHITTY RODENT AND A SHITTY BIRD?>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY IDENTIYTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY AIEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>57221438400 pokemon is a good selection. 150 was a good selection 300 was. Im all for more pokemon but people think this equates to a bad game are irrational and if thats the only reason they choose not to play one of the best games in the franchise over spainard shit is stupid.
>>57224129Whose the spaniard shit she talked about ?
>>57224135most people disown gen 8 and boast about gen 9 because its the current gen. where i loved gen 8 then i love gen 8 now and will stand that it is a better overall game in the franchise and i am drawing comparison.
>>57224137But whose the latinx shitted she talked bout ?
>>57224111Nobody talked about "bloat" prior to people needing to defend the dexcut.>>57224129> but people think this equates to a bad game are irrationalIsn't it irrational to think it makes the game better too?
>>57224172i already stated that.
>>57224172But all dexcut games are bloated. Bloat is about the regional dex, not not the amount of pokemon that are programmed into the game.
>>57224214>But all dexcut games are bloated.Not really, you just want to make the pro-cut side coherent. "Bloat" isn't a thing.also>programmed into
>>57224214>>57224217the problem isn't the "bloat", the problem is when each game shills the same popular mons, it makes the game feel less unique
>>57224217Bloat is when you can find 10 different mons on every route
>>57224223this is a good thing, what the fuck are you on.>No, give me less options for different playthroughs. I can't handle more.
>>57224223Which is only an issue because you need to defend having less mons available.I wonder if something related to that happened in the last few years. Maybe some policy change.
>>57224227Maybe it would become a good thing if they introduced 400 new pokemon in a gen, but as it stands, no.
>>57224233that would take years, for gen 5 they made around 400 designs, only for 156 of them to be approved, and to this it's still the largest dex. just don't spam the same 10 different mons in every game and im ok with it
>>57224233...ok and? You know the average player doesn't use every mon in every gen. If it's an old gen mon I haven't used much I'd still give it a shot. I don't know why anyone would think any different.
>>57224229You do realize a game could not have a dexut but also not be bloated? They did that in every game prior to Gen 6.
>>57224656Yes, I do realize a game can not have a made up defect.
>>57221438"I have too many options" is an insane fucking thing to say and I immediately disregard anyone who talks about "bloated" variety. It only makes sense if you're some kind of OCD perfectionist who needs to catch every single Pokemon on every single route the very first time you visit it.
>>57224704>try to find a specific pokemon>have to sift through a dozen other encounter slots first
>>57221541I agree with this. A big dex can be great if you balance the locations of mons right.
>>57221829I wish that I could properly articulate how weird and insane your first greentext is
>>57224709As opposed to>Try to find a specific pokemon >Oh whoops it's not actually in this gameTell me, which of the presented problems that we just listed is a temporary one, and which one can't be rectified at all?
>>57224709Not a problem in SV.
>>57224720Yes, that is better. Because I know which Pokemon are in which games and can choose which one I play depending on that fact.
>>57221438Meanwhile Johto is just Typhlosion/Feraligatr and 5 HM slaves.
>>57224754yeah, maybe if i were six
>>57224754thisnote how the johtranny above couldn't help but seethe
>>57224754>he needs HM slavesYou will cease posting until you turn 18 years of age.
>>57224754>choosing anything other than CHADorita
>>57224709>try to find a specific pokemon>geodude>geodude>zubat>geodude>zubat>zubat>WAIT SORRY we locked the pokekon you wanted to find to a retarded postgame gimmick where you need to wait the exact day for the pokemon to show up lmao>>57224778>y-you’re not terrible at these toddler games like me? y-you must be underage!what a bizarre cope
>>57224754Fake Yawnie has been on a roll lately
>>57221438>daipa thread
>>57221438a complete dex is the only right optionnever submit to dex cut apologists
>>57221438all those pokemon on top are still popular picks in sv kek
>>57224786You don't even train a full team, you're a toddler
>>57221438I think it's great. Really enjoy the variety of Pokémon in each area. Hopefully they build on the idea more. I like the special spots like nests and fruit trees that have pokemon do unique animations. Hope they do more of that. Give pokemon more purpose in their movements besides just walking back and forth. Like maybe if a bunch of Jigglypuff are together they sing and make every other Pokémon go to sleep including your Pokémon if you have one following you.
>>57224828>You don't even play the game poorly, you're a toddlerwhat a bizarre cope
>>57221438I unironically liked B/Ws way of doing things, they should have stuck to something like that and refined it. Limit the dex for the main game and then full dex for end game
>>57224950>make most of the game shittier for no reason!nah
>>57224971>no reasonMasuda: "I decided to make all of the Pokemon completely new, so that everyone would start on the same page, whether they were a longtime fan or completely new to the series."Sugimori: "This is the second generation of Pokemon games on the Nintendo DS hardware. So from the visual side, we were focusing on the issue of “how do we make a game feel fresh when it’s on familiar hardware?” One of the ways was to use entirely new Pokemon, instead of mixing new and [existing] Pokemon the way we did in previous installments. Creating an entirely new ecosystem of Pokemon allowed us to return to square one in terms of design. So we already have Pokemon based on dogs, and horses, and deer, for example. But now that we’ve discarded our past work, in a sense, we can go back to the animals that have inspired Pokemon and study them with fresh eyes, and create new and different things.”
>>57221501it has the worst type distribution honestly, doesnt help that most of the new mons are shitmons that you would encounter after already building a solid team with luxray, staraptor, roserade, floatzel, garchomp, gallade
>>57221438>uhm…. overrelying on existing mons to flesh out the regional dex is good, sweetie.Fuck X/Y>>57221613Kill yourself faggot, gen 2 has horrible mon availability. Gen 3’s is peak.
>>57225029>uhm…. overrelying on existing mons to flesh out the regional dex is good, sweetiethis but unironically
>>57224814the OP image has nothing to do with the dex cut, are you people fucking retarded?
>>57221438A smaller dex is okay when it's defined by brand new Pokemon, I didn't mind the tighter Unova dex at the time because everything was new and (mostly) usable.Trying to do the same tight regional dex when you're only introducing 70ish mons would be impossible basically, so you'd have to add old mons, and if I already have to use old mons then at least let me choose from a wide variety.
>>57225136>if I already have to use old mons then at least let me choose from a wide varietyretarded way to think about it a tighter dex can still benefit old pokemon. Pokemon like Skarmory or Slugma are associated with HoennSinnoh has two dozen pokemon with crossgen evos that it puts into its regional dex as if they're new,Even B2W2 give you baby pokemon early to give you access to different types and lines earlier than you normally do.Saying you should just dump as many old pokemon as possible in the game unless you want to do a reboot ignores how old pokemon used to be used.
>>57225013>galladethe only new pokemon you’d encounter after him that can be considered shitmons are carnivine and the babies retard
>>57221503name them
>>57225212starterdragapultcorviknight toxtricity grimmsnarl centiskortch
>>57221438kanto and hoenn have the perfect sizehoenn has the perfect ratio of new and old mons
Frankly, the marketing department's obsession with mass catching holds the series back. For gameplay purposes, a complete dex with limited catching opportunities is the most compelling option. Restrictions like this encourage trading, and make each player's team feel more unique.
>>57221444This. There is no reason to not have all the mons in a same game. Black/White did it well by separating all the not-gen 5 mons for the postgame, keeping the region unique while having all the mon available.
>>57225389lolmao
>>57221438The internet is a big place and not everyone agrees. This isn't someone being contradictory, you're just hearing two difference people complain.That said, bigger regional dex is better.
>>57225548how do i catch drowzee in Pokemon Black & White?
>>57221438I like the dexes that have around 200-300 Pokémon. I think that's the sweetspot.
>>57221501I've used most of those. Heck, Bronzong and Finneon are staples in my Sinnoh teams if I'm not using Empoleon.
