It's because people on the western internet pushed the you have to grind by attacking your own guys meme which is totally unecessary and can even make the game harder.
Now Final Fantasy Tactics on the other hand really favors grinding by throwing rocks.

>>10858618
Why do you care about western opinions on FFII, we didn't even get it.

it's a perfectly serviceable game by itself and a substantial improvement over FF1 in a lot of ways
the west didn't even see it until after FF4 and even 7 so of course 2's innovations are undervalued

>>10858658
2nded.
Im sad it wasnt released here.. it wouldnt have sold well to any but super geeky nerds.. but i was a super geeky nerd :(

>>10858618
Game sold worse than both FF1 and FF3 meaning that people didn't like the game back then. Is not revisionism is the truth.
>inb4 people is stupid
People buying a game dictates if a game is successful or not, not reviews from the "pros".

>>10858701
It sold more than FF1

It's a highly experimental game that didn't really succeed at said experiments. There's a reason why FF3 was a return to form, and every FF for a good long while was them iterating on the formula FF1 established. Meanwhile FF2's mechanics lead to a largely forgotten spinoff franchise.

>>10858701
It didn't though, they went to the basic formula in FF3 because people apparently complained about the new system or some shit.

>>10858618
I don't think it's "revisionism" to think an old game sucks

>>10858618
if you make this thread again I'll post a picture of my flaccid cock and you will regret your words & deeds

>>10859142
What if OP likes cock, anon?

>>10858618
Famitsu is a piece of shit
The Japanese IGN who are obsessed with Jarpigs

They gave Mega Man X 27/40
They should have commited sudoku after that
Piece of shit casuals who love grinding for 30 minutes every day after work and cannot handle a game that takes skill

>>10859080
Torishima told Sakaguchi that FF sucked when Sakaguchi wanted to advertize FF4 on V-Jump and was turned down
Torishima told him to do better because he wanted FF to be a rival for DQ
https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/April_4,_2016_-_Denfa_Minico_Kazuhiko_Torishima_Interview.html

>>10858618
>and Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (which scored 36/40
OH NO OOT SISTERS!

>>10859549
>torishima
This guy is known for lying one to many times, he stated that DQ was an RPG because HE liked them and told Horii to make one so they can advertise it on Jump, not a single time in the history of Horii and Nakamura (chunsoft) interviews this is mentioned, the most we can take from interviews is that Torishima was the reason why Toriyama joined the dev team and that he was the representative of Jump when Enix and Jump made the deal to advertise the game on Jump, whenever people interview this guy it seems that he always put himself on the center of the universe for whatever reason.

>>10859558
Lol, you seriously think that OoT Chads don't adore AoL and the innovations that the game brought to the series? OoT takes more from AoL than any of the other games up til that point did. The N64 and and NES games are each respectively great in their own right.

>>10858618
>4 literally whos who literally work at a Nintendo magazine and stand to gain by pushing Nintendo titles and 3rd party studios gave it a high rating
whoa, I love game journalists now!

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At this point I must have played about 75% of all RPGs on Famicom and NES, and FF2 is one of my favourites.

I'm not surprised it got an award for best story. The game really pushed jRPG narrative forward in a way few or no other did on the system, except perhaps until DQ4 but that was much later, and so many things people know the FF franchise for originated from this title.
First, the plot isn't your average heroic - fantasy, save the princess, kill the demon who stands on the side of Bad while (You) the prophecized Hero stands on the side of Good. No, the story is more mature and complex, it is mainly a more realistic war story between 2 factions and the fantasy elements take a step back and mostly being used as tools of wars rather than being the point, or an end, in themselves. There is a Bad guy, but he's bad through his actions and decisions, not because "he's just Bad". I dare you to find another Famicom RPG with story like this except perhaps Lagrange Point which again came out much later and even then the story isn't as developed. FF6 and FF8 would have a very similar premise, on top of the fact that the protags are teenagers/young adults.
Then if you look at it into more details, you have the friend who betrays you but comes back to your side or the death of many party members, which are things that later FFs would re-use too.
There is also the Key Word system which put the player into the shoes of the characters and makes him an active member in dialogue rather than just being a spectator.

The game really was ahead of its time in the story department

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>>10858691
> it wouldnt have sold well to any but super geeky nerds.. but i was a super geeky nerd :(

It would have sold at least as well as FF1. FF1 and all the GB FFs were constantly in the "top" ranking lists in magazines at the time and remained for YEARS, and not just in Nintendo Power. Even as far back as early '91, it made no doubt in Square of US that they would release the game. Then later that year they completely changed their marketing strategies to focus on the SNES and to try and broaden their market by making the games easier with Mystic Quest. This was actually a ballsy countercurrent move because at the time the west was still all about "challenge" (as evidenced by this pic), but we all know how the reception for Mystic Quest ended up being. The irony is that they were correct that the market would eventually turn out that way, it's just that they were too early. Had they released FF2 and waited a couple more years before trying to appeal to casuals I believe it would have worked out better for them.

>>10858618
Journalists like thighs don’t mean much, but people in general completely ignore the nes trilogy. They will say good things about 1 because it was the first FF, and bad things about 2 because it was unorthodox in many things, while ignoring 3 since there is nothing controversial to say.

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FF2 sold 50% more than FF1 on FC.
Then FF3 would manage to sell twice as much as FF2, but there are two things that worked in FF3's favour: it had marketing that rivalled even that of DQs and for a long time Famitsu would talk about it being upcoming almost every single issue, (similarly to DQ4 though not for as long). Also FF3 came out right after DQ4, or rather, right when players would be done with DQ4 and would want more, and the hype for Famicom RPGs was at its maximum.

>>10859770
>There is also the Key Word system

What? I had no idea that FF had ever actually done something like this. This kind of thing should be a standard for all RPGs in general, of course you should be able to inquire about things and initiate item trading by your own choice.

>>10858618
>Wow so its literally hated only due to e-celeb revisionism

Less that specifically and more a lack of access combined with second hand misinformation.

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>>10859840
>you are now obligated to attempt every keyword on every npc you meet just in case

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>>10859941
>every time a story progressing event occurs you must backtrack to every NPC you still have access to and try every keyword on them
>twice in case the dialogue doesn't repeat
>during both day and night

>>10859943
>I paid for this game so I'm going to get every line of dialogue I'm entitled to!
based

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>>10858618
From the moment emulators opened FF2j up to the west it was immediately regarded as a bad game. I'm sorry that your gaslighting revisionism campaign is going so poorly.

>>10859941
>>10859943
This is exactly why Zelda is better than RPGs.

Nobody plays Zelda by going up to every NPC and playing every song in front of them and wearing every mask in every possible situation first off, but stuff like that can and does lead to a much greater pallet of interactions because it's well incorporated into the game and you generally only want to try this stuff out if you have a reason to (because there are just so many possible variations of interactions that it would just take too long to exhaustively check everything). JRPGfags are fucked by the format of their games and what they expect from them, so I sort of don't blame you for not wanting this stuff in games where secrets are mostly going to involve completely random shit and grinding through possibilities instead of rewards for exploring and paying attention to cleverly hidden clues.

>>10859953
Yeah it's bad, but the remade versions were somewhat a bit more playable. The first version I played and kind of enjoyed was the Gameboy Advance remake as part of the FF1&2 GBA game. I was still forced to do the "attack your own dudes in a fight with weak enemies that can't kill you" method of powering up at points.

>>10859953
>I'm sorry that your gaslighting revisionism campaign is going so poorly.
Low T male comment.

>>10860524
You're really bad at this.

>>10860539
Lower T male comment, probably post a Nancy Peolosi clapping gif next.

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>>10860547

>>10858618
Its just that the kind of spergs that would play a fan translated rom 20 years ago were the same kind of people that would play morrowind by hopping in a corner for 40 hours. and since no one else has played it, or played it for 10 minutes and bounced mostly because it's a late 80s NES rpg more than anything unique to it, their opinion proliferated

>>10858618
No it's hated because if you play it, it sucks. Well the gameplay does anyway. The story is sick.
Do any of the later revisions change the game in a meaningful way or make it better to play? I almost really like FF2 despite how every dungeon is the same mean trick and how the combat sucks.

>>10859770
this. FF2 is an incredible game.

>>10860593
*incredibly bad

Gameplay is objectively a failed experiment. I'm sure it sold well though because 1) it had nice box art 2) it was a sequel to a known good game in an era overflowing with shit-to-mediocre games and 3) that was the height of the batshit insane high fantasy sci-fi crossover story craze which FF2 catered to.

>>10860596
look i know you got filtered by the incredibly easy to understand mechanics but its not my fault you are retarded.

>>10860781
>attacks his own party over and over for skillups
>WHATS THE MATTER YOU FILTERED BY THIS ENTHRALLING GAMEPLAY?

>The Japanese equivalent of IGN gave this game a great score
>this means the game is great

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One thing of note regarding westerners opinion on this game, or at the very least the Famicom version.... They didn't get the manual.

Here is the manual in a format that can be translated with google translate

http://setsumei.html.xdomain.jp/famicom/finalfantasy2/finalfantasy2.html

Note how it explains in details how the growth system works, advises to not go for a "red mage" type character, and notes that certain actions WILL lower certain stats.
You weren't supposed to find that out the hard way.

>>10860805
anon, people didn't hate it because they didn't understand it, they hated it because they understood it just fine

>>10860794
see
>>10858631

>>10860794
You don't actually need to do boring things that don't help you beat the game
I can deduct a point or so for a game not effectively communicating to players not to hit themselves in the head with a hammer for no gain, but it isn't some 2/10 sin against game design

In this game, the higher your HP is, the worst you've played. Having 3k+ HP is a badge of shame and you did it to yourself it's even worse.

One anon suggested the game should have capped HP at 999, and I agree it would have made the game better in the sense that it would at least have prevented idiots to keep doing useless things for hours on end. There is literally nothing that warrants having more than 999 HP, I've beaten the game with HP in between 500 and 800.

With that said it was also the first Famicom RPG I know of which allowed such crazy higher HP and dmg values which probably felt awesome for players at the time.

>>10860794
you dont have to do that at all what is with you dimwits using that excuse

>>10860808
That's wrong though. A complain I've often seen from people who actually played the game and aren't just shitposting is finding out the hard way that certain armors can decrease certain stats, but the manual explains that.

>>10860808
Hardly.
Many of the people who bitch the loudest about FF2 are the ones that either think your stat ups/downs are totally random, or that you can _only_ raise your HP by attacking yourself, and other completely unnecessary strats.
I'm not saying FF2 is without fault, its got plenty and is really a proto-SaGa game where it was much better refined. But FF2 is still a great game in it's own right.

There are some legitimately stupid things about FFII's system outside the stop hitting yourself meme, like how you should always be naked with a shield to increase your agility (what) because damage reduction just makes your characters lazy sissies and the hilarious effectiveness of bare fists.

>>10860995
You don't have to be naked to increase agility; and I don't know what's stupid about the system. It seems quite logical and realistic to me.

>>10861003
Armor reduces your evasion which gives you less agility increases. Light armor doesn't reduce it a ton but fixed defense just means getting less HP and less opportunity to use Cure anyways.

On that note, the old versions of FFII only caring about net MP/HP change at the end of battle for leveling is a technical limitation but blatantly shitty.

>>10859802
>it had marketing that rivalled even that of DQs and for a long time Famitsu would talk about it being upcoming almost every single issue, (similarly to DQ4 though not for as long)
DQ3 had a year of hype in the magazines before its release.

Why do people seethe so hard that others can find enjoyment in this game? Its got the best story of any famicom RPG sure some of the mechanics are a little esoteric but is still easy enough to figure out if you have half a brain. Gotta be autists obsessed with having the "objectively" best taste. Just cringe dudes, you don't like it nobody cares you dont need to have a meltdown and throw a fit when other people do.

>>10860931
>>10860940
Make it less obvious, anon.

>>10859537
Nigga pls. Mega Man X is absolutely a 27/40 kind of game. Tryhard bullshit nigga with the robot animals going crazy n shit

>>10860551
only weak men use "yikes".

>>10861241
yikes

>>10861205
Literally everything is noted in the instruction book.
See >>10860805 you retard

>>10861369
Anon, I think your reading comprehension might be compromised by your low IQ.

>>10861234
>Tryhard bullshit nigga with the robot animals going crazy n shit

a white person typed this

>>10858631
I played it the first time a few years ago. Just went in blind and played it how I always play games. Big guy had an axe. Hero had a sword. Girl was healer. Beat it pretty reasonably without any real grinding other than fucking around at one point trying to figure out how weapon leveling worked.
Fun game. I like how big the dungeons are.

>>10859770
Are you that guy who posts the screenshot graphs and was working on every Famicom RPG?
If so, did you ever play any of the Ultimas. FF2 keyword system reminds me a lot of a more console friendly version of Ultima 4's conversation system. I never played any console port of Ultima though.

>>10861405
Who do you think is using 4chan? lol

This thread has made me really want to play FFII, thanks all who know what they're talking about.

>desperately attempts to gaslight one last time

>>10862245
I don't know who you're talking to, but if you're referring to me in >>10862241 I can assure you I'm not on the same continent as these other people you think you're arguing with.

>>10861369
I think he's implying we're the same person.
When you're a victim of meme opinions, every person who doesn't share said opinion is the same person. Always.

>>10858618
I really wish FF2 had been released in North America because it might have actually got a better reception. It's still one of my favorite FF games, but I love Saga.

>>10858618
>OLD ECELEB RIGHT
>NEW ECELEB WRONG

i applaud it for what it tried to do, the limitations of the time really just hampered it.
The emperor is a really neat villain and i like a lot of the music as an in-between to nobuo starting out in 1 and starting to solidify his style in III.
i do think it's funny that each new version of the game makes it just a little bit easier.
the PR version makes it so that no matter what, you get guaranteed HP every so many battles.

>>10864627
You can turn that off in the console version and although the patch notes are vague as fuck about it, I imagine the PC version now since they basically updated them to console parity a couple months ago. PR FFII was just really bad at launch, it took until that console update to get rid of soft locking if you ended a battle by healing undead to death.

>>10864640
it had problems yeah.
the worst for me personally was that no matter what, status effects based on physical attacks landed 100%, so if you ran into more than one malborl or couerl late game, you were basically fucked if you didn't just escape.

>>10858618
Famitsu is no longer respected in japan anymore anyways. They’ve fucked up so many times and lost face to the Japanese public and their corruption involvement with Kojima pretty much sealed the deal. Tons of other Japanese owned gaming sites have taken their thunder

>>10864650
>That one trapped chest encounter in Cyclone with 6 or so Couerls
Fortunately Hourglasses exist

>>10858618
It's hated due to almost every system being broken.