Yay, or nay?
>>3454177Incredibly overrated game, does not hold up in comparison to several of its contemporaries.
>>3454205>over ratedon't think it sold better than most Sierra games. as for /vr/ fanboyism, it's hardly talked about now.>>3454177cool immersive RPG like latter Ultimas but combat is ass. basically you need to get the Dragon Skin spell ASAP to survive most fights. other than that , you need to find the puzzlelocked chests to get decent equipment in early game to survive till the point you get said Dragon Skin spell. early 3D graphix is ugly.
>>3454177Its an incredibly flawed game due to trying to tie in conflicting design philophies of narrative versus freedom but there are far worse games from the period you could play, like daggerfall or dark sun.
>>3454177Good writing/worldbuilding, serviceable level design, repetitive combat, simple yet very grindy skill progression, aged graphics (arguably a good thing because "soulful"), intentionally includes tedious routines of adventuring life that very few other games ever bothered to implement.
>>345464813 is a very marriageable age for nobility. I don't know why this shocks people.
>>3454205>does not hold up in comparison to several of its contemporaries.Such as?
10/10 game. Lots of awesome writing and skippable side content. Perfect mix of linear and non linear. Highly recommended. They don't make em like they used to
>>3454205Why do zoomers always feel the need to compare everything.
>>3454912>Perfect mix of linear and non linear.i wished it was real "open-world" instead of blocked borders in every chapter of the game. but i guess memory limitations and such.
I remember when I first played it I thought it was ugly as sin. Hard Drivin' the RPG, with awkward digitized actors in bad costume. Good game marred by awful aesthetics, including the combat screen perspective.
>>3454177Very nice game and combat is great unless you are a retard.
>>3454263>basically you need to get the Dragon Skin spell ASAP to survive most fights. Combat requires a bit of prep, since you're almost always outnumbered. The good part is, most of the time you can spot the enemies in the distance, which allows you time to drink boost potions, coat weapons with boost oils, distribute stuff like powder bags, summoning items etc. >>3454265>Its an incredibly flawed game due to trying to tie in conflicting design philophies of narrative versus freedom This becomes noticeable when some of the stuff in the game is present for mostly narrative reasons, but doesn't work very well. Ex. the Nightfingers spell. It requires a specific focus (hanged man's hand) which is consumed per use. It can only remove loose inventory items, not equipped ones. So its usefulness is limited to stealing crossbow quarrels from enemies. The only reason it's in the game is because the focus item is a plot point in a sidequest. Same for the armor oils. Several of them are counterpoints of their equivalent weapon buff (ex. flameroot oil protects against frostbladed weapons), but you have no real way of figuring out whether an enemy is carrying an imbued weapon (or what type), so they're relatively useless, mechanically. >>3455011>i wished it was real "open-world" instead of blocked borders in every chapter of the game. but i guess memory limitations and such. There are some chapters where you have something like 70% of the map unlocked, with only the Northlands and Elvandar shut off. And it's actually pretty big, even with the occasional "several days of travel later" intermission for loading a particular area.
>>3454177Assessment is a fucking useless skill. It could've been good if they hadn't made it waste a combat turn.
Owyn > allLute playing money machine with broken op spells by the end
it's yea, you dipshit
>Midkemia, home
How do I get OP fast?
>>3456167You don't really get OP, since there's not much xp grinding involved. With a handful exceptions, enemies don't respawn inside a chapter. And, as far as I remember, there's only one explicit stat boost exploit (Fadamor's Formula potion + enchanted well), but that one comes pretty late in the story. It's more important to keep track of whether or not a particular skill was focused for training before reading a specific book, or requesting a lesson from a trainer. Focusing skills increases skill growth rate. Which can sometimes become a bit of an hassle, since you have to constantly focus/unfocus skills based on usage, to ensure optimal growth rate.
>>3454177I really like the pace and style of world exploration (dungeons suck though). The prose is a lot of fun and sparks your imagination and I ended up attached to owyn and gorathCombat is pretty bad, the rpg system is dumb, and completionism will make it a slog
>>3456167If you just rest somewhere for months your max hp goes up every few days. I dont think food is expensive enough to make it hard to get up enough money to do it. Eventually everyone will have like triple the hp the game thought you'd have at a given point. Don't actually do this it's boringThere is a shop with used armor in the northern central part of the map where you can get some used endgame armor you can easily repair and bless. Its expensive early but there's nothing better to spend it on. Weapons are a lower priority because you get skill and strength raises from hits, so one shotting things isn't much better than two shotting which will rapidly grow you to the point of one shotting with a cheap weapon instead
>>3456167You can buy Greatsword and Dragon Plate Armor (and get tier 3 blessing on each) as early as chapter 1 by going to the East (towards Highcastle) instead of directly to Krondor. Money should not be an issue as long as you're looting most of the encounters / cracking most of the wordlocks.You're not getting XP in this game, you have to grind skills directly, which for most of them is simple but boring. There's also "focus" system as mentioned by >>3456200 which lets you highligh one skill for +50% gain, that can speed up the process somewhat but you need to constantly switch between what is focused for optimal gain.
>>3456233>Eventually everyone will have like triple the hp the game thought you'd have at a given point. Don't actually do this it's boring Since stamina (and, if you run out of stamina, hitpoints) serve as mana for spells, by doing the sleep exploit you'll bloatmaxx your caster(s), basically turning them into artillery. You'll be constantly casting spells at max power (several spells have adjustable power settings).
>>3456282There's a spot where you can time-skip one week at a time. A view of a landscape and if you click into it you'll get a prompt that party wandered across a valley, found nothing, and got back, which took several daysThe first time I came across the place (and didn't know what it does) I got the party killed because they only had food for couple days so everyone died on the journey. Old games didn't mess around.
>>3456489That's Cutter's Gap, the mountain pass northwest of Highcastle.
>>3456228>(dungeons suck though) Eh, they're short enough that they don't overstay their welcome. >completionism will make it a slog It's not really *that* bad, you just need to keep an old-school written diary, since the game lacks an autolog (not much different from other similar games of the era).
>>3456282>party killed because they only had food for couple days so everyone died on the journey.you can just clone items by dropping some of them in a container on the floor. but that's cheating of cose.
The thread made me reinstall it and the writing is amazingly funThe only indie game I've played with truly fun writing was west of loathing, why does no one even try this anymore. Shouldn't it be relatively accessible for a small dev
>>3457257It's not like I couldn't afford to buy more food, I just didn't have much on me at the time and didn't expect the game to immediately send me on a death march for taking gander into the landscape.
If not for the dungeons I would've enjoyed it a lot moreBy the last few chapters my eyes were just glazing over the dialogue
>>3457272>The only indie game I've played with truly fun writing was west of loathing, why does no one even try this anymore.Sierra games were big /biz/ ,anon. not indie at all.
>>3457390>If not for the dungeons I would've enjoyed it a lot morebetter than LOL and EOTB dungeons, frankly thoughbeited.
>>3454177How to play BaK on modern systems, preferrably without downloading fuckhuge compilations like Exodos? Seems like whatever i do, DOSBox is too fast. Is there some recommended configuration for PCem?Also, how was Return to Krondor? It looks lore like a contemporary quest like an RPG.
>>3457407GOG version (which is bascially just pre-configured dosbox) works just fine.
>>3457407>Seems like whatever i do, DOSBox is too fast.Ctrl+F11
>>3457407>>3457415no matter which version, i think there's a sound bug in parts of Chapter 5 IIRC. you need to turn off the sound for that or the game will crash.
>>3457394Bak was basically written by one guy, Neal Hallford, although he was working from a corny 90s fantasy series as a baseline I guess. But the huge reams of dialog and weird asides and simple poetry etc was just a guy writing it over not that long a time
>>3457600Small teams cant really handle even a single full time writer, they are too intangible and tend to actually make development harder by needing extra work to meet their vision
>>3457709How many people do you think worked on Betrayal at Krondor?
>>3457746I imagine the answer is right here, if somebody can be bothered to watch the whole thing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LwIEeG0_ws
>>3457753Looks like a lot of people had more than one hat to wear. Games just didn't have very big teams back then.
>>3457746I'm talking about why modern indies don't just have one good writer's hand in everything like BaK does. But it's true that "big" publisher development from 1993 was not much different from modern indies, aside from publishers being much more important for the actual publishing as in negotiating with retailers and getting the physical boxes, manuals, and media made
>>3454177In played in 90s but didnt get far. Last year I played and finished it. Had to google some puzzles. Was fun, but dated af. A slog, but worth it. Also read some of the books.
>>3458279I'm finding the map exploration painful because it's so easy to get disoriented with so little variance in terrain. I have to reopen the map constantly. Its also annoying having no strafe and that you can only turn or move forward and not both at once. I'm sure this was all necessary to let people play on a 386 but it's roughA lot of the game is a joy though
>>3458309>Its also annoying having no strafe and that you can only turn or move forward and not both at once. I'm sure this was all necessary to let people play on a 386 but it's roughno, it's because they were using flight sim tech to make the game and planes don't strafe. plus, we were using 486s by the time of bak.
>>3458315Minimum system requirement was 386SX on mobygames, 486 in 1993 was limiting your audience to rich kids
The mid 90s style website for the betrayal at krondor help web that various people have hosted is insanely wonderfulCurrently at dimwood.net/krondor
>>3458316>rich kidslol, no, just middle class. anyone buying a computer to play games in the early 90s got a 486.
>>3457753Watched the thing, first part with team reunion is neat, it's nice to see people that actually have fond memories of being on a gamedev project, the rest is unfortunately just e-celebs plugging themselves and praising the game.Also there's apparently "spiritual successor" in development called Call of Saregnar, but heavens know when (if ever) it wiil be published.
>>3458325386 -> Pentium chads where we at? I remember my friend had a 486 and I was jealous but then we leapfrogged him. We skipped the Pentium 2 and went Pentium 3 next. Like a 166 MHz -> 800 MHz jump, crazy.
>>3457390I just did chapter 4 with owyn and gorath behind enemy lines and that had the black slayer dungeon directly into the moredhel dungeon, directly into moredhel territory with every single fight being five or six on two and annoyingly dangerous. Even with a fast forward toggle in dosbox it was damn painful.Cool writing though
>>3457766>>3457927it's not indie.
>>3458787>black slayer dungeon directly into the moredhel dungeon, directly into moredhel territory with every single fight being five or six on two and annoyingly dangerous.that's why you grind hard and try to loot every inch of Chapter 1, which is the largest fake-"open-world" part of the game. that and use Dragon Skin spell all the time.
>>3459193Its slow even if gorath oneshots peons and if they get the drop on you and fetters of rime gorath and rush down owyn you can die unless you have grinded to an insane degree
>>3459215i grinded a lot yes. but the last part of Chp 4, you're suppose to just disable some magic gem thing while avoiding everthing else, then run to the bridge. you don't need to fight everything.
>>3459224Nalars rib, I only found it when I'd cleared out a ton of the encounters it deletes already
>>3459193Don't grind that hard In chapter 1, nothing is gone in chapter 2 and james needs a lot more help than locklear
>>3459282*Specifically don't get the melee training in quaestor's view or lamut, locklear starts at like 70% melee accuracy and gets a big boost when he returns, James starts barely better than owyn and I believe gets no boost
>>3459286 >Specifically don't get the melee training in quaestor's view or lamut, locklear starts at like 70% melee accuracy and gets a big boost when he returnsAnd Devon(ius) in Eggley (if you take the inland route to Krondor in Chapter 1), but that depends on some dialogue timing with Isaac the turncoat (if you talk to him after you've killed a specific foe, you won't get the training option with Devon later). Though I'm not sure whether the Stranger's Festival sidequest is even active in Chapter 1.
>>3459337>if you talk to him after you've killed a specific foe, you won't get the training option with Devon later I wasn't clear on this one, you're supposed to repeatedly talk to him a few times *before* checking out a particular farmer's barn.
>>3454177Imagine being a Riftwar fan and your next two books were released as video games instead. This is 10+ books into the series.
>>3459345bak wasn't written by feist.
>>3459337I just blundered past this on my current playthrough despite knowing about italthough i always fail to finish bak replays when things like thst are fresh in my mind so its fine
>>3459345Does it matter at all to his plot? He never did anything with the characters afaik
>>3459383The videogame-only characters? Yeah OG author didn't care. The uber mage Pug, which is from the books and playable in BAK? He was in almost every book AFAIK.Also Pug is both an multi-isekaijin AND tenseijinhttps://midkemia.fandom.com/wiki/Magician%27s_End_(novel) [/novel]They could have made 10 games out of Pug bizarro adventures.
>>3459345also BAK was properly published as a real book. not sure about the sequel.https://midkemia.fandom.com/wiki/Krondor:_The_Betrayal
>>3459286>James starts barely better than owyn and I believe gets no boost>>3459282why? he's not the "real" MC.they're dark elf man, Pug and Owyn the toughest parts are also Chp 4 and 7 IIRC? the prison dungeon and the isekai alien crystals world. James isn't there.
>>3459535Feist always seems like such a cunt I figure he peeled out on the game original characters
>>3459537Locklear isn't either and gorath and owyn get it if you train in 1 or 2I fucked up and left all my chapter 1-3 books for petrus and locklear in chapter 5 in a box they could get to. Rip thifuls bird migrations
>>3459543Could not rather
>>3459543There's only one stash accessible in both chapters 1-3 and 5, and that's the row of wordlock chests near Northwarden. Though I have no idea whether their contents refresh between chapters. There are a few chests whose contents change in specific chapters.
>>3454691haha i appreciate the effort but you know you'll never get a response to a post like that, directed at that kind of poster
>>3459642I forgot chapter 6 was pretty open, where can I restash the books so patrus can read them in chapter 7?
>>3459849*Or whatever chapter it is when you go back to james's party
>>3459849In chapter 6 you can leave them in a wordlock chest in Dimwood; however, as I said, I don't know if any of them change contents in chapter 7.
>>3459921All I have to lose are a few books owyn and gorath already read, if they get overwritten it's the same as just not trying
>>3459922Turns out the place I stashed them in chapter 3 is not accessible in chapter 6, so I can't get them to leave them in dimwood. Fuck it, the jimmy party can speedrun their final chapter, patrus can just get KO'd in every fight
>>3460133Did you leave them in the North? Like around Eldpoint, Highcastle, or Wolfram? Yea, that was a mistake, those areas aren't accessible in any chapter beyond 3. Should've either left them around Northwarden (so they'd be directly accessible in chapter 5), or left them somewhere in the South, so Owyn/Gorath could have taken them to Dimwood in 6.
>PatrusI want to go back and play this now. Fear my blessed Galon Griefmaker
>>3460143Yeah. I had pretty poor inventories going into chapter 7 with locklear and patrus missing a lot of good book buffs. The six man goblin parties with all buffed weapons were pretty damn dangerous. I ended up looting a group's buffed weapons and using them against the next group, then swapping for their buffed weapons, repeat until the chapter ends. If I had been autistically prepared I'd have had two red blessed blades of lims kragma/griefmakers and an inventory full of weapon buffers and not needed to think of that
>>3460330Yea, Patrus suffers from having shitty stats, poor spell inventory (unless you deliberately leave scrolls in Northwarden area chests during chapter 3), and limited chance of improvement (chapter 5 is very small in terms of covered area, and chapter 7 is an absolute slog of near-continuous battles, with only 1 (one) shop in the entire region).
>>3460336I had run through the dimwood with owyn and gorath trying to get to my book chest and that cleared out a lot of encounters that would have killed patrus a few more times and drained down my restoratives, only the actual chapter 7 fights were left. I never got the dimwood shop open either
>>3460133>patrus can just get KO'd inIIRC dying actually "trains" your HP. the more you die, the faster your HP will increase.
>>3460828Takes a shitton of time and/or resources to get rid of the "near-death" debuff. You have reduced hp/stamina recovery as long as it's present.
