>>3459472
have you tried playing any jrpgs other than final fantasy

>>3459474
Of course I have, what in the post implies I haven't?

>>3459476
If the average Final Fantasy player is "mush-brained," then perhaps the answer is to look outside Final Fantasy. Like Dragon Quest 8 came out the year prior. (its good because level-5 made it) Then the year of its release we get Suikoden 5, Valkyrie Profile 2, tales of abyss... I mean is ff12 better than any of this?

>>3459472
12 gets boring because despite the gambit system being there, you really don’t have to move out of (If hp<40% Then Cure, if Status then Esuna, (Attack or Basic spell depending on character)) for everything. Regular story bosses are barely any better (where you cast bubble/shell/protect/haste before you enter the fight and then it’s the same), so the only times you actually use the system are with the Esper fights and maybe a third of the hunts, if that.

My problem with 12 is you spend 90% of your time just walking around fields not thinking and that gets incredibly tedious after a while.
Even something that’s a lot simpler as a game - let’s say FF4 - at least you’re constantly doing stuff. Sure you might just be pressing the attack button or going into 2 menus to hit Fira, but at least it’s you doing that - there’s minute to minute, second-to-second engagement that FF12 removes on purpose for most of its runtime.

It’s a pretty game, and it sounds great, but that’s every final fantasy.

>>3459485
>I mean is ff12 better than any of this?
Yes?
>>3459490
I think 2x really improved on this aspect of the game but even then, I disagree in that 90% of your time is spent walking around not really engaged. Some of the areas you retread are tedious for sure, I got extremely tired of the areas near Dalmasca about 40 hours in, but I find this is an issue with every non-linear RPG that lacks some sort of scaling. Perfect world you'd see some scaling and enemy changes in the early areas, but I don't know how possible that would've been on the PS2, and even if it was I think it would remove some of the charm of having to avoid some of the monsters that roam the early areas/accidentally walking into an area you are underleveled for if everything just matched you step for step as the game went on.
The rest of the series, for example- like FF4- you are eventually just mindlessly blowing through fights at some point until you reach the ending. Whether that is automated or not never mattered for me, and the re-releases went so far as to add a form of autobattle, which is essentially the same thing as the gambits but significantly less involved.
The best solution I think would be to have more nuance for each enemy type and require the player to set up gambits semi-individually for particular areas of the map/enemy sets, but then you run into the same problem as the scaling methodology as to how feasible that actually is from a development perspective. Yeah it would be neat if every enemy was as dangerous as some of the bosses can be, but what game actually does that?

>>3459498
>Yes?
How? I think its lazy and masturbatory to only compare games within their own series. I think if we're to learn why FF12 is ignored today we need only to look at the releases surrounding it. Unless this is a mere bait thread of course.

>>3459542
>I think its lazy and masturbatory to only compare games within their own series. I think if we're to learn why FF12 is ignored today we need only to look at the releases surrounding it.
...not really? The primary audience for Final Fantasy games is, naturally, Final Fantasy fans. The deeper mechanics don't appeal to Final Fantasy fans, as stated in the OP, and the Final Fantasy aesthetics don't appeal to non-Final Fantasy fans. All things considered, outside of the artstyle, the game is much closer to a CRPG than a JRPG in most aspects. Do you think that the aesthetics of the game appeal to WRPG players?
That's why all of Matsuno's games are "ignored" today and didn't sell particularly well on release (outside of Tactics). They strike an odd balance between technical and mechanical depth and Japanese aesthetics that is a huge aversion point for the majority of the consumer base, both then and now. They'll always be niche because by nature all the games he made are niche in their very conception.

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>>3459553
>...not really? The primary audience for Final Fantasy games is, naturally, Final Fantasy fans.
Then what merit is there for the game? Either it stands on its own and has value, or it fails as a Final Fantasy game and doesn't. I don't like the idea that something can have value purely within its own IP, feels like brand name bootlicking.
>Do you think that the aesthetics of the game appeal to WRPG players?
No, I think FF12 looks like an MMO, both in its aesthetics and level design/gameplay, which was my primary aversion to it, because I had recently bounced off the original release of FF14 when I tried it (and never went back, thank god) and when I tried FF12 it just felt like more of that. Rogue Galaxy is probably the closest thing to a western aesthetic JRPG in that time period, I remember liking that game when it came out and not really caring about FF.

>>3459559
>I don't like the idea that something can have value purely within its own IP,
>No, I think FF12 looks like an MMO, both in its aesthetics and level design/gameplay,
lmfao
>>3459559
>Rogue Galaxy is probably the closest thing to a western aesthetic
okay?
Dude what are you rambling about

>>3459570
>lmfao
wdym "lmfao"? its near identical to ff14. did you never play ff14?

>>3459472
Being the best Final Fantasy game ever wrought by Hume ingenuity, and the people who hate it are literally brainless trodolytes irreconcilably burdened with malformed prefrontal cortices. It is for this reason that its detractors have come to be known by the name "tasteless normie trash," of the genus "degenerata retardicus." This strain is hunted in the RPG and Retro plains of the seventeenth strata of the dimensional rift known as 4chan.

Be they foul degenerates of the lowest possible order, deprived of God's light, upon their passing by violence or illness, they are fated to be banished to the void of everlasting non-existence, retroactively erased from the fabric of the empyrean.

Indeed, Final Fantasy XII perturbs and unnerves and divides even today, a fact that one should not grieve nor strive to change, for it is precisely this quality that bestows upon it its timeless sublimity, and allows those only with the most refined and impeccable taste to accrue together into the radiant and rumored immortal flan known as the "Matsuno Ball Sucker."

>>3459581
seething?

>>3459581
Kek, is this a pasta?

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>>3459575
>wdym "lmfao"? its near identical to ff14. did you never play ff14?
Just because 14 likes to adopt Matsuno settings like Vagrant Story, 12 and Tactics Ogre doesn't mean it actually resembles it beyond anything but the surface level. Most people mistake 12 for having MMO combat because of auto attack features but it's fundamentally different than the typical MMO-style cool-down rotation gameplay as it doesn't even feature those things at all

>>3459602
I just really like the bestiary.

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did you know ff12 has a fishing mini-game? to get the 2nd fishing rod you have to solve some kit williams level riddles

>>3459607
>ust because 14 likes to adopt Matsuno settings like Vagrant Story, 12 and Tactics Ogre
No, 12 literally has FF14 style maps. They are exactly the same. They even have the same markers for map transitions.

>>3459735
not only would this literally be reversed since 12 is older than 14, but it's also an extremely surface level comparison.

>>3459472
>the game is bad because instead of me mashing attack every battle, you can just set it up to automate it
FFfags are retarded

>>3459735
Wow anon, the devs of XII must've gone forward in time to steal the maps from XIV

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>>3459761
But its quite similar to FF11 as well. The reason the comparison happens is because it has a weak plot padded out with hundreds of fetch quests that take you across a series of open, empty maps. The developers were big time fans of western MMOs. (people like to say square enix devs like tabletop and were inspired by it, but they don't, they like western mmos, especially matsuno) You can even see the MMO influence bleed through in the UI design.

>monogatari faggot is retarded
No way

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>>3459472
12 has all that shit but still manages to be more braindead/autoplay than the other FF games which are also braindead post-3 (post 4 if the Japanese version)

>singleplayer MMO enthusiast loves singleplayer MMO
shocking news

>>3459498
>The rest of the series, for example- like FF4- you are eventually just mindlessly blowing through fights at some point until you reach the ending.
I like XII, and generally don't care for IV, but you are being massively disingenuous.

>>3459472
Yeah I dropped it when I had to run around town yelling that I was Captain Basch

>>3459920
>i dropped a 40+ hour JRPG because there's a 1 minute section where you have to walk around town
I see the genius of XII detractors

>>3459472

I believe FF fans hate it because the game is the definition of wasted potential. It could have absolutely been the best one but it´s not. This is evidenced by the game actually becoming better through re-releases over the years. IZS and Zodiac age are huge improvements over the original game but the plot and characters still need, to this day, more work.

Certainly once you accept Ashe, Basch and Balthier as the only relevant characters this aspect also somewhat improves but you know, those relationships still need to be more fleshed out. The Esper stories also need a lot of work, every Esper should have as detailed a story as Belias, a reason to re-join the fight against the Ocuria and to be part of the story. This would also give meaning to visiting and reacting to tons of cool designed areas.

Like for example, shouldn´t Ashe and Basch react to visiting the Necrohol of Nabudis? Nabudis is where Rasler (Ashe´s husband/ Basch friend) died. It´s kind of their whole personal reason to rebel so it really would make sense to be a story related area and not just another hunt ground for MMORPG tier quests. There should be some great secret there, Resler´s ghost, something...

You have to understand FF VII had a great story, VIII had a great story, IX had a great story and even X story was fantastic, not to mention tactics so expecting a great story from XII was a given at the time and you can see the makings of that story in there, you can see the game we were meant to have and will never get. It really kind of pisses you off.

New FF games all kept the worst aspects of the game too... ditched the RPG elements and the story telling in favor of random questing and passively advancing plots. Seriously, the player has no agency in advancing narratives in these games since XII. That´s just terrible design.

>>3459472
>it is only "hated" by Final Fantasy fans because it is simply too much of an RPG.
Holy shit, really? Moviegame fans dislike something that vaguely resembles an RPG? Never woulda guessed...

My faves are 5, 7, Tactics, and 10. I quit playing the series after 10, and prefer CRPGs. Will I like 12?

>>3459986
You might, if you can get over the MC and the combat it can be fun, and there's a lot to keep you occupied. At a certain point though I just stopped caring about the story/characters and quit.

>>3459490
I agree with this. Amazing dungeons and world building, terrible combat. IZJS was the best version, TZA removed alot of what made that compelling. FF13 has better combat, unironically.

>>3460078
>Amazing dungeons
Whoa there, lets not get carried away. FF12 does not have good dungeons. No one said that.

>>3459614
12 is one of my favourites and seems like it will always hold up the best long term, I've played it probably a dozen times and I have never done the fishing. I've done everything else. I think in the EZ mode remakes it is even more pointless because you get the weapon from the other mode gauntlet thing?

Retards play the ez mode remakes catered to them then claim the games are all mindless spamming attack.

My memories of my first playthrough managing gambits:
- got fucked hard in the sky mines when Larsa bails, had to run from the lizard guys missing their entry
- Mimics you have to focus on draining electricity, boss
- Demon Wall had to leave for later
- Demon Wall
- Flying hunt
- enemies using oil and fire
- dragon that uses all the status effects
- Cuchelain; did this way earlier than I should have, absolute clusterfuck
- other espers
- mom? Bomb
- just trying to explore nabudis
- the 5 onion boss; couldn't hit these and they leveled to 99, ended up throwing rust motes that I had not used entire game
- the group of antlions for that hunt

That's just what I remember from 20 fucking years ago. HP<40% won't do jack shit; you have to manage mp between 3 characters and who is healing solo or group or you're just going to be looping healing while boss kills you.

>>3460083
It does though.
- huge
- traps
- illusory walls
- interactable objects that change paths
- shortcuts
- teleporters
- revisits opening new sections
- interconnected to the world
- FAT FUCKING LOOT
- hidden bosses
- the odd actual maze

I don't think you can say any game has purely better dungeons with a straight face. Even something like Strange Journey has obvious flaws 12 doesn't like aesthetic and being a square grid.

>>3460118
Strange journey has nice dungeons but they arent integrated into the world the way they are in 11/12

>>3459490
If it's tedious to just run around and kill stuff and explore, then turn off the gambit system.
>but that's even more tedious
Less tedious than running around and mashing A or X in older FF games. World encounters can be harrowing in XII, like most RPGs, if you don't go out of your way to game the system and stay underleveled. Switch up weapon types.
>>3459542
I love Dragon Quest VIII more than FFXII but XII is objectively a better game and I'm just clouded by nostalgia. Tales of the Abyss is a fun action game but not much of an RPG, and most of the sidequests are extremely missable whereas the best FFXII has to offer like hunts and espers will always be there.
>>3459559
>comparing FFXIV to XII
Good lord. If you spent more than 15 minutes in XIV you'd see that it's just WoW style collect X bear asses except they casualized it so you collect 2 or 3 bear asses which is then followed by a 30 minute fucking cutscene, and you do this for 100+ hours, whereas in FFXII you can go huge stretches without story or cutscenes and explore 50% of the entire world if you unlock it early enough. They're so incomparable I don't know what could possibly go through your mind to make you think they aren't.

I don't think you should be allowed to breed (or even breathe for that matter).

>>3460118
No, FF12 has long linear hallways you run down while automatically dispatching monsters with gambits. It has none of that. The dungeons aren't even uniquely designed.

Look at this:
https://youtu.be/trlvkCgeQi0?si=H5d0Ul2Wpom2u4Vj
Its just running down identically textured hallways fighting monsters. I mean holy shit, is this how low the bar is for squeenix fans?

>>3459910
It's not like a MMO, end this meme

>>3460118
Correct
>>3460284
You are nitpicking one place and are completely incorrect

>>3460324
>You are nitpicking one place
That's the most well constructed dungeon in the game, I was being generous. If you have a counterexample then post it.

Incredible art and music.
Gameplay is odd, but works well if you consider the game mostly as a delivery vehicle for the world and the "vibe."
Unusually absorbing for me. Hated gambits at first until I gave them some thought and realized that turn based games are ultimately shallow anyway. Automating routine tasks wasn't that big of a deal in the long run because I still got the excitement of leveling up / gear just like every other jrpg, just minus the tedium of having to press attack 200 times per battle.
Extremely comfy.

>>3459915
>but you are being massively disingenuous.
How? It's true, objectively. Unless you specifically seek out the endgame optional fights SOME of the other mainline games have you quite literally are blowing through the game past like, hour 20. Especially the games where the combat system is fundamentally broken, like VIII.

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>>3460111
nice trips, i don't play trial mode but the fishing is still completely useless albeit sort of fun. I played the game on ps2 when it came out back in the day and your list reminded me how I got incredibly filtered by this asshole back in the day because I was a stupid kid and didn't know you could cut through the feywood and avoid it completely lol

>I've been playing through this game and I've begun to realize, after hearing so much about it for years, it is only "hated" by Final Fantasy fans because it is simply too much of an RPG. Too many secrets, too many dungeons, too many gameplay options, too many ways to build characters, etc
Well yeah, it's the same reason they hate II, V & XI.
Same recycled complaints appear every time, the FF fanbase has whole sects who started with VII, X, XIII and now XV discussing what they think of the games.
You learn to filter out the meaningless drivel from people who only want 1 type of FF game and move on.

XII's alright but it's rough around the edges due to its development hell, IJS & the remaster help fix a lot of that and it's a lot better an experience now than it was at launch.
Dungeon Encounters was a nice indie but I'd like to see Ito try his hand at a battle system again.

>>3461337
>XII's alright but it's rough around the edges due to its development hell, IJS & the remaster help fix a lot of that and it's a lot better an experience now than it was at launch.
I'm not sure how much of it was actual "development hell" as much as the rough edges come from the change in leadership, and the fact the people who picked up the directors chair weren't seasoned directors. 5 years sounded like a lot back then, but it was more or less just a hallmark of what was to come, and if there's anything XII does objectively well it is having a plethora of content to do.
>Dungeon Encounters was a nice indie but I'd like to see Ito try his hand at a battle system again.
Hear hear, although if we are being honest that's probably never going to happen. I guess unless they let the remaster guys make an actual Ivalice game like they were talking about back in 2017.

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>>3461339
>and the fact the people who picked up the directors chair weren't seasoned directors.
>Ito
>Kawazu
>unseasoned

>>3461125
ha
I was so overleveled by then that I think I 1-shot it with quickenings
I definitely 1-shot the gold judge boss

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>>3461339
>Hiroyuki Ito
>Fucking Akitoshi Kawazu
>Unseasoned
Kawazu has the biggest portfolio of ANY director at Square and he was and still is the last OG veteran in the company, Ito was the man who created ATB back in the days with FF4 and worked on the vast majority of the series after that.
FFXII's problems were deeply rooted in the project being handled horribly from the very start due to the team being made up of two opposing factions that were the old Playonline team that developed FFXI and Matsuno's FFT team, neither of which could agree on what to do, which resulted in the game being largely unfocused and stuck in development for so long, and of course Matsuno bailing at the very end because he had a mental breakdown and could no longer stand whatever the fuck was going on inside the company.
Kawazu immediately saw the writing on the wall when he was called to salvage the game and looked at what they were doing, he was reportedly very frustrated by this and the fact that it was way too late for him or Ito to actually make any big and much needed changes to the game, he lamented being forced to stick to Matsuno's plans and being stuck with a directionless mess with fundamental design problems, this is all stuff he openly talked about in interviews.

And in hindsight, it's probably why he went on to produce other Ivalice related games like Revenant Wings, to somewhat redeem FF12 and salvage the universe a bit, he also fixed Van's design and gave him a game where he could be the protagonist he was meant to be, which is amusing since he didn't even like Van and only begrudgingly kept him in because the suits forced him to and it was way too late.

>>3461342
>>3461360
Kawazu took over the producer role and Ito had one director's credit before XII, which is dubiously attributed at best because it isn't like IX was completed without hitches either. Skilled developers undoubtedly but that isn't transferable completely to other positions, and if you are pretending like it is you are a fucking idiot.

>>3461362
>Ito had one director's credit before XII, which is dubiously attributed at best bec
Anon this is why you should step away from Mobygames and wikipedia entries...

>>3461366
Oh what FFVI? Again, dubiously attributed. And equally, let us not pretend like any of the games produced by Kawazu were of overly respectable quality, nor forget that Minagawa was also promoted in the aftermath of Matsuno's departure for some unidentifiable reason, another developer who had little to no experience in the director's chair.
Kawazu being upset because the project was geared in a way he disagreed with is whatever, but pretending like having 3 dudes, 1 of which was primarily a game system designer, the other an artist, and the last a dude who produced his best games under Miyamoto and has never hit that height again somehow had nothing at all to do with the fact the game released without polish and clearly missing portions, and in turn received re-releases in which Ito significantly changed design elements, something that totally isn't indicative of some meddling at some point in the process post the departure of Matsuno.

>>3461360
Matsuno's breakdown is interesting because while the game had been in development hell over programming issues, the Quest team were being poached and leaving for gooch & MW while Matsuno was refusing to go into work.
So you had a team losing staff with a director MIA and Ito chipping away at getting gambits to actually work on the PS2.
The drama doesn't end there either, because while all this is going on CT is being worked on and SE demo it at a PS3 event showing it with FF7. All while the game is still unreleased.

>And in hindsight, it's probably why he went on to produce other Ivalice related games
Yup. Kawazu's return to the FF franchise in the 2000's was interesting. While everything was going to shit everywhere else FF still had Ishii, Tanaka, Kawazu & Tokita involved.

>>3461371
*is retarded.

>>3461373
Yes, you certainly are.

>>3461375
>no argument
Okay, sure anon. It's all le Matsuno's fault and totally has nothing to do with the failings of the rest of the people involved that had 3 long ass years to do whatever they felt like doing.

>>3461377
Anon it's time to admit that Yoshinori Kitase's role as director on VI is dubious at best.
Man wasn't even a systems designer, just some dude who showed up to write FF V, the game about an evil tree!

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>>3461371
>dubiously attributed
>another developer who had little to no experience in the director's chair.
>1 of which was primarily a game system designer, the other an artist
You are now acutely aware that Takai did not direct XVI. His credits are dubiously attributed, he has little to no experience in the director's chair having only directed The Last Remnant some shitty SaGalike and was just an Artist on Final Fantasy V.

>>3461371
Nigger are you seriously shitting on the man who created the first handheld RPG in history, which was also Square's first million seller game?
Saying Kawazu's games aren't good is ridiculous, games like SaGa 1 or Romancing SaGa 2 alone are considered seminal to the genre and the influence they had is still seen to this day, and that's without mentioning the first two FF of course.
>something that totally isn't indicative of some meddling at some point in the process post the departure of Matsuno.
Or maybe it was Ito actually fixing things he was forced to push through because again, they had no fucking time due to the development history being a mess since before Matsuno left, what does Ito have to do with any of that?
I seriously hope you're not implying Matsuno is some kind of martyr in this situation, because FFXII bears all of the marks of his previous games, especially in how rushed and poorly designed core gameplay elements are, look at Vagrant Story and you'll see the same shit, clear as day, in fact the development history for both XII and VS is, unsurprisingly, very similar, both are extremely rushed and unfinished projects with serious gameplay issues.

>>3461379
I am a dedicated Kitase hater but quite honestly everyone before VIII was just getting wrangled by Sakaguchi regardless, Ito probably less so because he primarily focused on systems design for the majority of his career. What we have of development documentation of the SNES titles basically implies that that is all he ever did, you have Nomura being brought up as a creator for certain characters or Sakaguchi's involvement in VII's development but Ito is never mentioned in that capacity.
Especially back then, roles were essentially entirely flexible and I imagine his position as game design lead for not just combat but other implemented systems (which would later be brought to IX) warranted a directors credit in the mind of the team.
My point here is is that he's never been an overly creative dude and it is pretty easy to tell that that is the case when literally every non-systems design credit he has is footnoted with another person, whether it be Kitase, Minagawa, or Sakaguchi.

>>3461383
>but quite honestly everyone before VIII was just getting wrangled by Sakaguchi regardless
It was the exact opposite, but whatever you say...

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>>3461382
>Nigger are you seriously shitting on the man who created the first handheld RPG in history, which was also Square's first million seller game?
No, I am not shitting on your surrogate father's abilities as a developer, I'm shitting on his ability as a producer. Wow, look at this absolutely glowing resume!

>>3461381
nah you can smell XIV's shitty game design all over XVI

>>3461383
>>3461389
>anon suddenly realises that Square has had an incredibly fluid design staff working on FF throughout the decades
Wait until he catches on to the other overlaps in battle & system planners haha..
>nah you can smell XIV's shitty game design all over XVI
Wait until you find out about the staff involved in the XIII, XV and 7R games haha..

>>3461388
>Look at this absolutely glowing resume!
Well, he was assigned to handle the Ivalice IP after wrangling the remaining quest & XI teams along with his other babby CC.
Kitase and Hashimoto could have blocked it and got one of the many other talented producers they had working at the time to do it instead.
He even found time in between the Ivalice games and the CC games to do The Last Remnant which was the best non-cavia title SE managed to shit out on a 7th gen platform.

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>>3459559
I used to describe ff12 to new people as "a single-player MMO", but I never meant it in a bad way, was just trying to be accurate
its my favorite ff in terms of gameplay

>>3461392
Even his non-Ivalice titles are middling at best and it isn't like TLR was up against stiff competition what with the Crystal Tools shitshow.

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>>3461388
I don't get it, am I supposed to feel bad about something?
He took it upon himself to clean Matsuno's mess and give the Ivalice Alliance universe a home, he worked on CC as much as he could and also kept his own brainchild series floating despite being given no budget to work with, and he never once sold out either, that's honestly a pretty good resume if you ask me.
Hell, even TLR with all its issues ended up being the only notable big console game of that generation for Square, none of those were abhorrent failures like FFXIII or the OG XIV, I honestly don't see what's wrong with that list outside of Dawn of Mana, which he only supervised.

>>3459485
I've been trying to get through DQVIII, and yes I'd say FFXII is better. It's wastes less of my time with inane errands and character development is simply more interesting with the board than investing your points into a weapon type and then the bottom to unlock other abilities.

>>3461398
>He took it upon himself
Dude you can hop off his dick he hasn't made a decent game since the 90s.

>>3461402
>It's wastes less of my time with inane errands
But almost all of ff12 is inane errands.

>>3461442
No? Basically everything you do comes with some kind of interesting content, even the "inane errands" of the game have at least some type of layering and interaction to them. Probably the worst of the worst is the "I am Captain Basch!" section and even that has a layer to it.

>>3461449
>Basically everything you do comes with some kind of interesting content
Like what lol, it's like a mmo quest where you get some flavor text in a dialogue window before collecting 5 bear asses.

>>3461463
You've never played the game I guess.

>>3461464
clearly
pretty sure he's just trolling

>>3461464
Clearly I am the only one on the thread who has which is why you get offended when asked to talk about it.

>>3461469
Yeah

>>3461470
No, you're being a disingenuous cunt.

>Ivalice has all kinds of crazy magical creatures and species
>Party is entirely humans and one human with slut bunny ears

>>3461360
In other words 12 was Matsuno's game but he left it unpolished. Just as Stellafag said

>>3459472
Well yes, people expected something more than western RPG with all its faggotry but without strongest points (meaningful choices, good writing, world that's actually dark and grim).

People expected emotional story that focuses on individual characters and blends many different fantasy and scifi elements into an unique combination because that was FF was doing sińce like forever at this point.

>>3461554
I'm honestly shocked there was no Bangaa party member despite being able to recruit them in Tactics Advance

>>3461606
Wait, people actually play FF for the shitty character drama?

>>3461600
>Stellafag
Who?

>>3461617
>asking who is Stellafag in a fucking FF12 thread
You are just as bad as Barry. Please die

>>3461617
You triggered her

>>3461616
Always did. Only newfriends play for generic open world or badly made cinematic custcenes.

>>3461606
Xfags are so embarrassing

>Put it in the same setting as FFT
>XII's Ivalice has zero resemblance to anything in Tactics' Ivalice
For what purpose?

>>3462153
its the ancient civilization that existed before fft
the one with all the airships and guns and shit

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>>3462153
The Ocurria wiped out civilization.

I still don't know who Stellafag is.

>>3461436
Your opinions are worth less than nothing.
>>3461600
Very much so, which is the usual problem with Matsuno that you can find in every single game he made.

You guys are making me wanna replay the game again, but I wish the game at least had a boss rush mode. There are so many job/equipment/gambit combinations but the endgame gets real easy once you have everything.

Also it's been a while since I played it last time, recommend me some fun job combos?

>>3462345
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Zodiac Age has a boss rush or at least something similar.

>>3459472
>Too many secrets
lol
in the final dungeon of ff12 i broke a fake wall and fought through a corridor that lead to a dead end that contained a jar with 7 gil in it. ff12 is one of the worst games ever made in this regard, exploring is a bigger waste of time in 12 than in any other ff due to its worthless randomly generated loot.
>too many ways to build your characters
you mean one objectively best way to build them (sword and shield)?
>too many dungeons
that all look the fucking same, are all straight lines, and all contain horrible monster variety (literally a total of about 12 monster models recolored and rescaled over 9000 times)?
ff12 is one of the worst games i've ever played rpg or no

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>>3462326
>nooooooooo stop criticizing
my surrogate nip father who hasn't made a decent game in 20 years!!!!!
you aren't serious

>>3462381
Mentally ill.

>>3462381
>in the final dungeon of ff12 i broke a fake wall and fought through a corridor that lead to a dead end that contained a jar with 7 gil in it
He lacks the information

>>3462153
>put it in the same setting as Vagrant Story
>XII's Ivalice has zero resemblance to anything in VS's Ivalice
wow it's almost like they answer that question in the game

>>3462384
He made lots of great games to this day whether you like it or not, Re:UniverSe alone has been printing money for nearly six years.
But yeah, I'm sure the opinions of a mentally ill nobody who's literally obsessed with shitting on a man he knows nothing about mean a lot.
Get a grip, retard, you're the one who's clearly obsessed here.

>>3463056
okay so you are serious, perfect
didn't know they let slobbering SPED kids use PCs

>>3463061
>>3462384
>>3461436
Shut the fuck up

>>3463061
It's quite miserable how the only thing you can do is insulting strangers over the internet because they called you out on your fanfiction and gratuitous slander.
Humour me then, what's a good game since Kawazu or Ito apparently never made one?

>>3463068
>wahhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhh
And you still can't even read, that's the kicker. You are so blinded by autistic rage because someone dared to say that he can't into the producer role because he's never produced a decent game that you've been on a 3 day apeout apparently under the belief someone said he was a poor developer. Get help soon.

>>3463072
You're not talking to one person, the only one who needs help here is you

>>3463074
uhuh, sure

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>>3463075
Yes, now answer my question, what's a good game to you since you're so wise and totally not a mentally ill subhuman?

>>3463077
Romancing SaGa 2

>>3463081
Nice one, but you're not fooling anyone, retard

>>3463084
>n-n-no you can't have consistent opinions that make me look like the retarded ape that I am
kek

>>3463086
What consistent opinions?
Romancing SaGa 2 is good but games like Minstrel Song or SSG are bad despite being more of the same?
Retard.

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>>3463087
>Minstrel Song
>SSG
>the same as Romancing SaGa 2
jfc you are actually pathetic

>>3463088
Yes, they're the same exact level of quality if you actually care about this series.
In fact SSG manages to have an even more complex campaign design, both have much better battle mechanics as well, not to mention more of everything, nobody who likes RS2 dislikes games like MS or SSG because they deliver the same exact level of quality and things people like this series for.
Again, you do not care about those games, which I doubt you ever even played since you're not even making any arguments about them, you're only here to insult people, for some reason I don't even want to know.

>>3463095
I'm not insulting anyone beyond Kawazu's ability to produce games and categorically denying that the travesty of a development cycle called Final Fantasy XII was some product of solely Matsuno's hubris. Trying to whitewash the the mess that resulted from the takeover of Minagawa, Ito, and yes, Kawazu, because you'd like Kawazu's record to be spotless for some reason, a reason I don't want to know, is mentally retarded. From Final Fantasy XII onward he's produced nothing but middling games that are shadows of previous work, which, ironically enough, is likely because he's no longer directing the games or intimately involved with the development process. SSG's successful elaboration on the SaGa formula in design is almost certainly because of Kawazu's involvement on the ground floor, it is just a shame the rest of the game sucks.

>>3463098
>I'm not insulting anyone
You sure are considering you're blaming Kawazu of ruining FFXII when he was called to salvage it barely a year before the game was released, and he explicitly said time and again that even if he wanted to change stuff he couldn't do that.
So yes, you have to accept that what you got with FFXII was at the very least 90% out of Matsuno's bag, which is on par with the rest of his games, he always choked hard and never managed to deliver a finished, polished game since the very first Ogre Battle.
>because you'd like Kawazu's record to be spotless for some reason
No? I sure as hell won't defend a fucking terrible game like Code Age Commanders, but I also won't go around saying he didn't make a good game for 20+ years because that's patently false.
>he's produced nothing but middling games that are shadows of previous work
Minstrel Song is hailed as one of the best entries in the series and is an exceptional game, the DS remakes of SaGa 2 and 3 are fantastic and an example on how to handle remakes in general.
SSG, despite suffering from zero budget, is a very good game and an extremely competent RPG, and EB is looking to be even better.
Crystal Chronicles are all good, casual games for kids, the only one that sucks is Crystal Bearers because of the forced wagglan bullshit but that's on Nintendo forcing that shit in the first place.
Even TLR, which he didn't really have much of an input on outside of writing the basic scenario, is a pretty okay game all in all.
>it is just a shame the rest of the game sucks.
Only the graphics and enemy variety suck, the rest of the game is very well done, the writing is on point, the gameplay is there, the music is as good as it's ever been.

Again, all you're doing flinging extremely vague insults that mean nothing, you're the reason this board is unbrowsable.

The mindbroken Kawazu hater woke up from his tendies coma again but still missed the II & EG thread.
Amazing. Truly the man doth miss.

>>3461617
>Stellafag
It's extremely telling that he wants to play Legend of Mana and Unlimited Saga before even so much as touching FFVIII and IX. The guy loves his systems.

>>3463432
>Legend of Mana
>Unlimited Saga
Are these games good? Why on earth would someone like Stellafag play them? Nomura fags don't usually go for that sort of genre.

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Well anons, looks like I still have FF12 on my switch. After digging it out of the closet and spending an hour or so getting it to boot (the joycons were draining the battery faster than it could charge, remember when nintendo hardware was awful chinkshit?) I guess I'll be offering some direct insight on the game over the coming days on my spare time.

>>3463111
As someone who has never touched the SaGa games how would you describe Kawazu anon?

>>3463432
He was going to play Chrono Cross anon...

>>3463432
>It's extremely telling that he wants to play Legend of Mana and Unlimited Saga before even so much as touching FFVIII and IX
Sounds like they have good taste then, IX is fucking overrated garbage

>>3463440
Wait, you know who Stellafag is?

>>3463440
He did say he's only playing those games because he wanted to gauge the sort of stuff Hiroshi Takai was known for. Stellafag was doing a lap of directors and he was probably doing LoM, Unlimited and Last Remnant, but playing LoM before VIII and IX was pretty weird.

>>3463443
You can't still be asking this question.

>>3459472
what is it with v/vrpg people and making up shit that fits their narrative. like no one ever said that.
most people that dislike it do so because it doesnt "feel" final fantasy. story especially but also the world.
gameplay wise its the best FF until that point. the world is fun to explore, gambit system is cool, meaningful and nice secrets, mob hunt was also fun. its a great game, but story is and characters are shit

>>3463640
very accurate summary

>>3463640
the story and characters ( even v and p ) are fine
the gameplay is mid as fuck. FF5 had better combat and FF13 had better combat.

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>>3463640
>but story is and characters are shit
it has the best story and characters in FF. Most VII babies thought that FF was shounen fantasy manga they weren't prepared for Matsuno Ivalice political kino

>>3463648
>FF13 had better combat

>>3463438
So bad news, after an hour and a half of cutscenes, walking around a city that is indeed ripped straight from an MMO which is packed with uninteresting NPCs, then going into a big empty desert to do MMO "bounty hunt" fetch quests, so far this is one of the worst RPGs I have ever played. Not looking good.

>>3463640
>gameplay wise its the best FF until that point. the world is fun to explore, gambit system is cool, meaningful and nice secrets, mob hunt was also fun
I'm playing it and it has none of this so far!

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>>3463440
>Sounds like they have good taste then, IX is fucking overrated garbage
You know, I don't really think so, because within the first 2 minutes of FF9 I'm straight into playing the game and having direct control over it rather than watching a movie, get to a city full of colorful characters to talk to with several mini games, (and get introduced to and control THREE seperate characters) and fight a boss. Compared to FF12 it is gold. It's seriously annoying how retarded Square Enix fans are on this site, FF14 really poisoned the well and brought in a bunch of complete retards. Your opinions are completely retarded and totally disconnected from any form of qualitative objectivity. You're a shit person and should feel bad.

>this Vaan was added in at the last minute meme still exists even though the Ultimania and Matsuno says otherwise
>And even Kawazu's comment about him is more along the lines of Vaan is a little younger than I'm used to

>>3463740
Who even cares about this schizo shit? I don't see this mentioned anywhere in the thread. Take your meds and focus, retard.

>>3460284
>>3460405
You're a fucking retard if you think Giruvegan is the most well constructed dungeon in 12.

>>3463745
Which dungeon is it then? Because they're all basically the same. You seem to be doing everything other than actually discussing your shit game. Either speak up or take a hike.

>>3463748
>Great Crystal is the same as Giruvegan
>Giruvegan is the same as the waterways
Have you actually played the game?

>>3463753
Answer the question, you shit eating faggot. I am playing it AGAIN, right now.

>>3463760
I literally gave you two examples of better dungeons than the one you praised dumbfuck.

>>3463761
>I literally gave you two examples
HOW are they better? Because they have more long hallways full of the same enemies over and over with a treasure chest at the end that has 3 gil in it?

Absolute schizo thread.

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>>3463705
Damn, it sounds like you should play the game more, at least get to the first boss or something.
XII starts slow, until you get fran, balt and some gambits going the intro is pretty dragged out. By the time you get Basch you should be cookin' and having some fun.

The opening IS slow but imma let you in on a little MMOgem here. Both XI & XIV take longer than XIV to open up and show the real game to you or even get their main plots in motion.

>>3463764
Your peak dungeon is a straight-line.
The two that I mentioned off the top of my head aren't straight lines because they have actual puzzles for you to solve and have more content than what's mandatory to clear the game.

>>3463729
IX opens up slow too compared to classic FF's like III or V, it takes a good while before you're allowed to explore freely and just do your own shit.

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I always assumed that the Rasler Ghost was an illusion created by the Occuria.
I was spoiled by the knowledge that Occuria were originally going to be mindflayers. So I never questioned that kind of telepathy.

But I did question why Vaan could see it. Why would the Occuria show him anything?

But now I know it wasn't the Occuira at all. It was the nethicite itself. It's not really explained in Tactics or FF12. But it is explained in FF14. The Auracite, as they call it, absorbs and amplifies desire.
Of course we 'see' the nethicite absorbing magicks, and equipping it reduces the character's MP to 0. But what you don't see is the emotional and psychological energy, or impetus, behind the action which it absorbs as well.

The Goddess Nethicite absorbed Vaan's desire for payback when he picked it up in the treasury vault. As well as Ashe's grief.
So when Ashe and Vaan are discussing what they saw at the Garif Village, Vaan should have just said something like "That wasn't Rassler. That was my emotion. It's engraved in the stone now, but not in me. It shows us what we want even after we don't want it any more, and I don't want that anymore."

Telling Ashe that she didn't feel that strongly for Rasler when he was alive. He was a nice guy, but it was a political marriage. The stone, in a feedback loop, has piled these small feelings into an obsession that was never real.

Do people actually find XII hard? I would say part of it's issue is how exceedingly simple it is to play, the lore is kind of interesting but that's really it.

>>3463823
>IX opens up slow too compared to classic FF's like III or V
Not really? Like FF12 needs to give you a tutorial on how to move the camera and open doors, its pretty weird. Its true that FF5 throws into the typical overworld exploration immediately, (sort of) but thats not the end all be all of gameplay. Like there is more gameplay variety packed into the first hour of FF9 alone than FF5 in its entirety.

>>3463906
That's a much cooler take than what I had assumed. I thought they were implying that Vaan and Ashe were distant blood relatives in some fashion (the pauper / street rat secret prince trope,) but the stone makes more thematic sense.

Each version actually made the game worse. The original character progression led to most players taking the path of least resistance but also allowed for customization and alternate styles on replays. IZJS basically told the playerbase they were playing wrong and made you have jobs, but at least forced the players hand somewhat it that they had to pick only half the jobs at most. Zodiac Age is the same but now there's less actual choice since you can just get all 12 jobs through dual jobbing and it just encouraged finding the most minmaxed combos.

>>3463909
Meh it has some moments depending on the version and depending on how many sidequests you went after. Doing the sidequests made the main game easy but there were some tough sidequests. Not doing any sidequests made the main game tricky at times and is probably the best way to play a first playthrough. This seems to be a problem universal to FF and most RPGs actually. The Hunts varied wildly in how hard they were. You never knew if it was an easy hunt to track down, and tough but rewarding once you figured it out, or a "literally needs a guide" to spawn hunt.

Storywise, it felt half-baked. Like it needed anther draft and another half of a game to tell the story it wanted to tell.

>>3464037
Nah IX is slow as molasses when it comes to starting up. Same issues as you see in XII desu.
And I say that as a fan of Ito and Komoto.

>>3459485
DQ games are fucking trash

>>3459485
I mean when you talk about years the PS2 to PS3 era in an entire fucking block was filled with good games you could play to death.
But as is normal for FF fans you just single in on them being the only thing worth playing. I mean, look at it this way, despite FF VII being huge and the hype for the remake tech demo that came before XII nobody gave a single fuck about VII: shart of cerberus, even less so than the games you listed.

>>3464174
>Nah IX is slow as molasses when it comes to starting up
Anon, I just played 9, I am now playing 12. The pacing of 9 is entirely consistent throughout and I gave specific examples of how they differ.

>>3463705
Now I am in the waterways and nothing has improved. The main story quests also seem to be formatted like MMO quests, even the branching paths in the dungeons aren't interesting, (often times you can just visually look down a hallway and see there is nothing in it, then continue on, not that there is any downside to walking around aimlessly down empty hallways, as encounters aren't dynamic) and gambits are an incredibly stupid mechanic that seem to be painfully aware of how much combat in square games is tied to a single macro level decision, at best, which is repeated ad infinitum, rather than the elaborate AI scripts in Deadfire for example. How can anyone defend this?

>>3464868
I recommend dropping it as it does not improve. I also tried it and made it a little further before giving up on it. It is a singleplayer MMO and it does not even have good art to help its case.

I've been playing the struggle for freedom mod and it's pretty good at ramping up the difficulty, I've had more close calls than I did in the original which is cool
the best mod is the one where you can force your party to always keep their weapons drawn instead of putting them away 2 seconds after battle which was the most annoying part of the game for me

I wish there was more thought put into character interactions, especially between the main villain and the party, not sure why they didn't think to do that

>>3459472
it's my favorite final fantasy, and the final actual good game in the series
i'm glad you are enjoying it anon, there is so much to fucking do and the gambits system is so underrated

To start, I actually like XII a lot.
>Too many secrets
Wut. Did you play FFIX?
>Too many dungeons
Are there? There weren't that many, but they were all very long. Remember that ancient desert castle/temple/whatever? That shit was so boring and took forever.
>too many gameplay options and ways to build characters,
What the fuck are you talking about? FFI, II, III, V, VII, VIII, T, TA, and X have much more customization and more play styles.
I'm glad you like the game but, dude, no, not for those reasons. Just say you enjoyed it.

>>3465075
dude yes, there are a shit ton of secrets in ff12, like every time i tell people about the fishing mini game I get responses like "wait what"
there's also secrets regarding the lore, such as why the occuria were forced to leave giruvegan

>>3464868
>still hasn't beat the intro
This anon has PACE, that 1:12 is around the corner.

>>3465075
>Wut. Did you play FFIX?
Barely any in comparison to XII, what did you mean by this?

>>3464868
Incredibly moronic post

The ridorana cataracht is the hole left over from when the occuria moved giruvegan to another plane.

>>3463111
nta but I do think it is hilarious you are basically doing the same thing as him but in reverse and you don't even have half the self awareness needed to realize that

>>3464868
The first visit to the waterways is still the intro

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>>3464868
I've rescued Ashe and dungeons continue to be long hallways with fodder in them and chests that contain 10 gil, which you run down to trigger bad cutscenes of characters standing around delivering deadpan lines to each other about politics and maybe there's briefly an airship flying around. Everything remotely threatening just dies to quickenings. Not sure what the appeal here is.

>>3467992
>dungeons continue to be long hallways with fodder
So... Final Fantasy.
Hunts are where most of the challenge is if you're playing Zodiac Age version

>>3459472
There's a bunch of problems with 12
The characters are the worst of any FF game, because they basically don't exist. Vaan and Penelo have literally zero personality. I couldn't tell you a single thing about either of them.
Combat is basically 'control one person let AI handle the others' where you can unlock basic programming for the AI, retarded.
The aesthetic, the world, the story, everything is so damn generic, nothing and nowhere and no-one stands out at all
Quickenings, which are basically this game's version of Limit Breaks, are totally ass-backward retarded, you just press buttons fast to chain them over and over. Wanna deal good damage? Yeah just spend 15 minutes looping short cutscenes bro it'll be fine
License Board is horribly basic, it's like the Sphere Grid only worse.
>It does have some pros though
funnily enough I would class your reasons it's hated as the good things about it - loads of optional content and big dungeons, lots of unique enemies with marks etc. Also despite breaking with convention I actually liked the way you just got into combat with wandering monsters, mostly because it allowed me to take on things way before I should, what I call Midgar Zolom syndrome and I LOVE that shit.
Unfortunately everything else is just awful. 50 million HP mark is the opposite of fun, and I loved fighting Penance in FFX (Zanmato is for pussies though, fight it properly dammit)

>>3467992
DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNN BRO YOU GOT PAST THE INTO FUCKIN' GZ BRO
GET IN THE BATHROOM STALL BRO I'LL JERK YOU OFF IN CELEBRATION
2 more hours and you'll surely get it.

>>3468652
>The characters are the worst of any FF game, because they basically don't exist. Vaan and Penelo have literally zero personality. I couldn't tell you a single thing about either of them.
>Combat is basically 'control one person let AI handle the others' where you can unlock basic programming for the AI, retarded.
>The aesthetic, the world, the story, everything is so damn generic, nothing and nowhere and no-one stands out at all
>Quickenings, which are basically this game's version of Limit Breaks, are totally ass-backward retarded, you just press buttons fast to chain them over and over. Wanna deal good damage? Yeah just spend 15 minutes looping short cutscenes bro it'll be fine
>License Board is horribly basic, it's like the Sphere Grid only worse.
all this is wrong thoughever

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>>3467992
I've gotten my first esper and this is really starting to wear on me now. Everything about this game is so bad and boring. It doesn't have a single redeeming quality. Haven't played an FF game in a while and this is seriously making me question if Final Fantasy has just always been shit. Is FF the worst JRPG franchise ever? I really can't believe how bad this game is, its incredible how much it sucks.

>>3469186
don't play it
you clearly dont like FF

>>3469191
>you clearly dont like FF
But I like lots of other JRPGs. Why is square enix so shit? People seem to be really, really dedicated to making people believe otherwise if all the square enix spam is anything to go by, so why are the games so shit and why, when I play them, do people just have no answer and tell me to play something else? Is FF for people who don't like JRPGs?

>>3469210
I dunno
I liked FFs from 7 through 12, more or less
I didnt play any other jrpgs that I can think of

>>3469220
>I didnt play any other jrpgs that I can think of
Well there you have it.

>>3469220
>I liked FFs from 7 through
At the very least, you were supposed to go back and play 4/5/6 and Chrono Trigger after starting out with 7.

>>3469230
>>3469186
there are better games and better jrpgs than final fantasy xii
final fantasy xii is a good game

I believe both of these points, you think in black and white only, like a true simpleton. keep playing ffxii, a game you passionately hate enough to blog about it on an anonymous image board, it makes me laugh

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>>3469242
>go back and play 4/5/6
I think this is misleading, as these games are terrible too. Really every Square Enix game is super awful. Like look at the retards jerking off SaGa when essentially all the actual RPG bits that make these games feel like an adventure have been stripped from the game. Star Ocean, SaGa, Kingdom Hearts, all games for idiots, all games built on top of a mountain of shit because Square forgot how to make an RPG and got popular for all the wrong reasons.
>>3469244
There are many, many 9/10 JRPGs and these are typically very long games, no point in playing a sub-5/10 one.

>>3469186
I like XII, I got it on release and have beaten it twice, but a lot of it is a slog of endless automated battles. If you don't like it that's fine, but as I'm sure you know it isn't a normal Final Fantasy. We will never get things like glorious FF V to X again.

>>3469280
>I'm sure you know it isn't a normal Final Fantasy
Its final fantasy deconstructed, underneath the snow boarding mini games and train suplexes you'll find FF12, poorly written political drama and combat that can be fully automated with 2 commands.

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>>3459472
why would it be hated
it's the last good final fantasy game where they created something with a resemblance of coherence
why do people on these boards constantly clickbait for free

FF13 is popular for being hated on
everyone knows the reason why video games declined because developers rather want to make movies but they have no talent for that
they hate their own medium I guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs_A9tORxJY

if people move around like in real life and are stuck on the overworld just like in real life then how are you supposed to create any gameplay
this shit costs way too much money and is in the way
and you know the saying if something is in the way...

>>3469315
>it's the last good final fantasy game
There's nothing good about it. If FF12 is the standard for good then all FF games are terrible.

>>3459490
just making the game harder solves all the issues people attribute to the gambit system
It is simply under utilized by it's own game

>>3469352
>just making the game harder
There is no way to make FF games harder. They are mechanically flawed. At best you can make them more tedious.

>>3459472
Here is what I liked:
>characters look good
>beeing able to make rules and auto fight
>changing your jobs and how you want and how you like
>fun secrets and bazar
>hunting mission that ends in fighting one super boss with some story tidbits
>having secret summons
>dungeons beeing actually bigger than they appear

Here is what I didn't like
>although fixed in zodiac (not open certain item boxes or you won't get the zodiac spear)
>not beeing able to save sets of commands to swap them out
>story is nonesensical after the half (and even then is not even that fun, oh no my husbando died I am so sad and walk with le skimpy minirock)
>character arcs kinda meh
>bazar will reset everytime you buy something
>ps2 limitations in terms of UI even when leveling up and changing jobs, takes 30 min for just clicking "yes I want it"
>invisible treasures with possibility to spawn of 5%
>treasures with possibility to spawn of 1%, where sometimes even magic is limited to this

>>3469280
>. We will never get things like glorious FF V to X again.
FFX is really not that good

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>>3469250
>Star Ocean, SaGa, Kingdom Hearts, all games for idiots
I would actually like to hear your list of JRPGs that are apparently not for idiots. It also seems incredibly moronic to include Star Ocean considering it was basically a different company for the majority of its lifespan. I also always considered the holy unrighteous hate it gets as a litmus test to see who actually likes JRPG and has a good judge of what's important which is to say you're demonstrating the opposite.

>>3469186
>Haven't played an FF game in a while and this is seriously making me question if Final Fantasy has just always been shit. Is FF the worst JRPG franchise ever?
Yes. There's very few good FF games depending on what you're looking for.
XII, X-2, XI, V & II are the interesting ones but if you're not into it post ATB then yeah, you're probably not going to enjoy it unless you get into the story.

>>3469531
>XII, X-2, XI, V & II are the interesting ones
But anon, I'm playing 12 right now and there's nothing interesting about this.

>>3469550
Then it's just not for you innit bruv

>>3469555
Eating shit isn't for me either, I fail to see what that has to do with anything. Look how far up his own ass OP is, this game has none of the things he claims it does. I'm playing it RIGHT NOW and its all lies.

>>3469550
>>3469557
Yeah we can see all your faggy blog posts,
> this game has none of the things he claims it does. I'm playing it RIGHT NOW and its all lies.
It literally does, you're just fucking retarded

>>3469557
I guess take it up with OP then.
idk I reread his post, I don't care much for the dungeons in XII, they're alright but nothing special.
I like the hunts and I like character building in IZJ and gambits.
It's one of the better Ivalice games, better than FFT & FFTA imo but RW and Bozja beat it for me.

idk what to tell you, you're playing it and not enjoying it. If you've got nothing better to do play it, write a review and get it out of your system. If you really hate it then drop it.

>>3468713
Nice argument kek

>>3469242
I said "liked", not "played"
ive played all the mainlines up to 13, at least a little bit

>>3469331
we like terrible games, they're great
the good games you like are shit

>>3469558
>It literally does
Where, retard?

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>>3469664
The game was notorious for some of the bat shit insane secrets like how to get the Zodiac Spear, the secret invisible strongest bow weapon or the extremely rare unique enemies that appear in zones.
The build variety is self explanatory to anyone who has played the game with the lisence board system, and the game has a lot of weird tactics for taking on some of the optional challenges
https://youtu.be/aq5dIvAs32E?si=MQkJ3GP9kBiTzM09
>Hurry durr I played and rushed through the first few dungeons OP is lying
You're just a dishonest lazy elitist cunt

>>3469692
>the extremely rare unique enemies that appear in zones
lol no, see its perfect that you brought this up. This isn't a secret, its the game trying to emulate rare spawns in MMOs, through a system that rewards mindless grinding. (in a game that doesn't even require grinding, no less) Like if a dev wanted to encourage someone to explore environments they'd have lots of cool puzzles and hidden treasures in their dungeons, or if they wanted to encourage talking to NPCs they'd have lots of varied and interesting dialogue interactions, but everything FF12 does is in service of capturing that feeling of the MMO grind, like kill 20 wolves to get a super wolf to spawn and then steal from him, and repeat that loop in over and over.
>The build variety is self explanatory
No its not lol, the battle system is incredibly streamlined and "builds" reflect that. There isn't any particular synergies outside of mashing two classes together and building on something incredibly basic like ironing out class weakness until everyone is a generic spellsword, and its not like seperate characters synergize with each other.

>>3469531
>final fantasy's most ardent defenders don't even like the best games of the series
Figures.

Quickenings are the single most retarded version of 'limit breaks' from any FF game
Change my mind

>>3469771
The post lists the best games in the series.

>>3469859
If it wasn't for FF7, the FF franchise would be less popular than Dragon Quest.

>>3469792
yeah I didnt like em
about halfway through I decided to pretend they didnt exist

>>3469876
Good, fuck popularity.
Stellar games are what matter.

>>3469883
Let me rephrase:
If it wasn't for FF7, the franchise wouldn't be very popular because everything else is subpar. It would be less popular that Dragon Quest is now, it would be just another JRPG franchise lost in the mix.

>>3469859
6 and 9 are the only ones worth playing.

>>3470103
9 is my favorite due to story and characters, but 6 is poopoo and I dont get why everybody likes it
12 is where its at in terms of gameplay and looks

>>3470352
>12 is where its at in terms of gameplay
But 12 has the worst gameplay in the series. By a lot.

>>3470358
no, ur rong

>>3470358
also the worst characters, by a mile

>>3470508
I wont say the worst in the series
but they're definitely a lot worse than they could have been

>>3470510
Name one remotely interesting thing about Penelo.

>>3470675
she's emotionally-aware and kind of the glue between various people
despite being some commoner street urchin, she gets along with and influences powerful important people like ashe and larsa
also she has the nicest rear to look at

>>3470682
>generic trait asspull
>cliche stereotype asspull
>ass asspull

>>3470691
>low quality bait

>>3470714
bet you can't find another person who remotely cares about Penelo
inb4 samefagging commences

>>3470732
she's the most likeable of them

>>3470750
That's the most damning indictment of FF12 I've ever heard.
The FF12 cast was so bad it made me like Balthier through process of elimination.

>>3470770
you know what I literally never do?
go into threads about games I don't like

>>3470770
>outing yourself as a homosexual EVEN MORE

>>3470802
>>3470815
bwahahaha butthurt samefag schizo sperg
it's ok anon I'll leave you alone now, to your virtual circlejerk of one.

>>3470770
>The FF12 cast was so bad it made me like Balthier through process of elimination.
One of the reasons why 12's cast gets so shat on by FF fans is because they wanted overtly quirky fun shounen archetypes and they got very interesting and deeply human realistic characters instead. I don't even think one is naturally worse than the other but the different style that 12 goes for has merit even if it's not going to be a crowd-pleaser

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>>3469186
>clearly just faux blogposting so he can eventually just devolve into shilling his favorite slop
this board is dead

>>3470861
No, they went too far the other way, and we got deeply empty and boring characters with zero personality. A character being 'realistic' doesn't make them interesting or deep - I love my mum anon but I wouldn't want her in my party in a fucking fantasy game because it would be boring as hell. Most people are boring. Besides I'm playing a FANTASY game, why do I want "deeply human realistic" characters?
On top of all that, you know what real people have that FF12 characters didn't? They have PERSONALITIES. I can only assume people who like the characters in FF12 have severe autism and literally can't tell the difference between people and robots, which is what the cast might as well be.
Actually comparing them to robots is quite apt, as gambits mean you literally program them to fight for you using a basic algorithm.

>>3470992
>I love my mum anon but I wouldn't want her in my party in a fucking fantasy game
Anon... This sounds like kino of the highest order, what are you saying?!

>>3470815
>>3470851
samefag

>>3470992
I just dont know what the fuck they were thinking with the cast
>han solo the nobleman genius son of tony stark and ex-darth vader, but he's not the main character
>knight of a fallen kingdom, tough strong fighter guy james hetfield lookalike, sworn to protect the kingdom and the princess, but he's not the main character
>sexy chewbacca
>stronk female princess who dont need no man (actually needs 3, and misses the 4th)
>sweet but tough blonde street urchin orphan girl; gets along with everybody
>blonde twink airhead street urchin orphan thief; now HERES our main character!
>quick! shoehorn him into the story! our japanese audience needs a young european-looking twink to identify with!
>like 12 other races they could have used; nope, 5 humans and a playboy bunny
>oh wait! there are guests who sometimes join the party for a while!
>they're all human too

I mean really, there should have at least been a banga.

>>3471153
>I mean really, there should have at least been a banga.
I don't particularly get the obsession with having non-humanoid party members. They are almost always lame, or complete afterthoughts, or have insufferable fanbases like IXs cast that make me hate them retroactively even if they aren't bad characters in a vacuum. They aren't interesting by the sole virtue of being nonhuman and are aesthetically worse off for it so it is mostly a lose-lose no matter what you do. Other races work infinitely better as background characters than they ever will as party members. And god forbid I have to sit through another story about le fantasy racism, I swear to God I will nuke Japan again.

>>3471528
>or have insufferable fanbases like IXs cast that make me hate them
>people liking things makes me hate it!
npc

>>3471609
Hate to break it to you anon but you are likely one of those aforementioned insufferable people
I hope you get well soon

>>3471662
somebody is insufferable

>>3471662
you are insufferable

>>3471153
While I question most of your descriptions, giving characters backgrounds doesn't give them personalities.

>>3459472
>Too many secrets, too many dungeons, too many gameplay options, too many ways to build characters
It's because it's a brainless autobattler with a shit story and it's only fun side content is hunts, which almost all suck. Even Yiazmat is a total joke that requires little strategy.

>>3470802
OP insults people that don't like his favorite
I wouldn't go into a thread that announces it's going to be a circlejerk general for a game I don't like, just don't say I suck in the op, that's all it takes

>>3472462
>>3472428
You both suck

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>>3470981
>faux
Nothing "faux" about it, game is legitimately a huge piece of shit thats not interesting or fun at all.

>>3459485
VP2 mogs them all.

>>3463906
>But now I know it wasn't the Occuira at all. It was the nethicite itself.
This is wrong. Rasler's ghost transforms in Gerun and speaks with his voice. Stop making shit up and pretending it is canon.

>>3459472
It's also tragically rushed. Goddamn I wanted the game to last longer but the second you get to the Archades lab the pacing suddenly accelerates and never slows down, it came at the cost of that third country (no, not the dead one) that was important never actually mattering.

>>3472654
anon you are still fake blogposting regardless of how you feel about the game, now shill your slop and fuck off.

>>3472745
We've hit the point where actually playing games is "fake" and repeatedly making shitty threads and replying to yourself is "real". Cool.

>>3463906
>Vaan should have just said something like "That wasn't Rassler. That was my emotion. It's engraved in the stone now, but not in me. It shows us what we want even after we don't want it any more, and I don't want that anymore."
lol this is embarrassing and shitty enough to get you a job as a writer for modern video games

>>3472948
I literally can't remember a single line of dialogue from any character throughout the entire game, because they're so dull their dialogue just sounds like the adults from Charlie Brown.

>>3472898
I honestly don't know how blog posting isn't a violation of rules

>>3473003
IM BASCH VON RONSENBERG OF DALMASCA

>>3472898
>schizophrenia
clocked

>>3459472
Too many ways to build characters? Do you realize the game (the final edition) gives you exactly one way of building your character? All you do is choose a job.

>>3473008
Because its playing video games.

>>3473113
This board is for video game discussion, not being an annoying attention whore

The new take on combat was actually pretty good but the leveling through the invisible tile set thing was dumb. Why can't I see the path I want to take my characters down? Also, the characters were so boring and monotone. Just bad English voice acting? A decent game, but I traded my copy.

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>>3473248
>Why can't I see the path I want to take my characters down?

Every time one of you schizos tries to go on a one man propaganda campaign to rehab the media that was your childhood autism sink it just makes it more likely I won't replay it eventually in a spirit of finding something to like

>>3473477
Good shit, now stay the fuck away from Final Fantasy II and XI fucko.

>>3473521
Guess you can stop making threads every day then.

>>3473527
I'd never need to make an FF thread.
If I were to make an FF II thread it would require 13 straight back to back posts and this board's too dead for yet another SE/Bethesda thread filling the catalog.

>>3473477
even better

>>3471153
Anyone who bothered to use more than 5% of their brain to pay attention to what happened in 12 would know that Ashe is the MC of the overall narrative and you're merely controlling an onlooker to her story. Which mind you needs people like Vaan and Penelo to exist because they help to ground her by reminding her that these are the people that she's fighting for and that being Queen isn't about personal vendettas and being obsessed with revenge.
By the way, Basch and his archetype generally end up as mentors not the MC. SE didn't need to force Matsuno to not make Basch MC because he already wrote similar characters in FFT and TO.

>Vaan - Zidane from IX, his tail cut off and he's been lobotomised
>Penelo - Selphie from VIII, but without the charm, looks, or likability
>Ashe - All the worst parts of Garnet from IX and Yuna from X, mashed together into some kind of bland gruel
>Basch - Ultra-generic noble knight, the definition of one-dimensional character with no humour or personality
>Balthier - The only one with character, shame they don't do anything with it
>Fran - Bunny ears is not a personality

>>3473797
>Comparing XII characters to trash from IX
Kindly fuck off