I feel like this phenomenon happens in rpgs way more than in TV or film. Why? Anyone else noticed this?
Nerds that have chosen to define themselves in terms of the media they like, and so it becomes an extension of the self. You’ll notice this a lot with the “not an RPG” cliche because the logic goes “I am a person who likes RPGs, and I did not like this, therefore, it is not an RPG”. You’ll virtually never see someone state that “although I admit that it is an rpg, I disliked it and did not care for it, although I can understand why someone else who likes different things than I do might enjoy it more than I did” or similar. Basically, autists with stunted emotional development.>verification not required
>>3482288For example?
>>3482288I'm slightly confused. I'd this about how characters are presented in canon vs fan canon? I can't remember any case like this. Or is this about fans of canon vs fans of fan canon? Would make more sense then, but the presentation seems off. Or is this about something else entirely?
>>3482309>>3482308Caius from Morrowind Just some questgiver, doesn't have much dialogue that's unique to him, most of it is copy pasted from other NPCs, what's there paints a not very animated and by the number picture of "guy doing his job without much enthusiasm" and that's basically it, but some guy at Bethesda thought it'd be funny to put a c pipe on a table and now he's le smoker guy, such a whacky memorable character who loves to smoke, hes such a goofball this smoke guy, always smoking haha
>>3482316Oh, that old sugartooth.
>NOOOOO STOP HAVING IMAGINATION Fuck off.
>>3482316This is a very poor example.>Just some questgiverHe's the ranking Blades agent on the island, you're told to report to him upon starting the game. He personally shepherds you through half of the main quest, giving you advice (including "you're a level 1 scrub. Go join a guild, go level up, go explore, get some experience, come back when you're ready for some real work" which is quite refreshing compared to most cRPGs) and access to his personal network of contacts and trainers. He gradually introduces you, via your main quest assignments, to the history of the province, the relationship between the Dunmer and the Empire, and gradually building up through the Nerevarine prophecies and their relevance to you.>doesn't have much dialogue that's unique to him, most of it is copy pasted from other NPCsI don't feel like opening up the construction kit but I'd wager he has possibly the most unique dialogue in the game.>what's there paints a not very animated and by the number picture of "guy doing his job without much enthusiasm"Nonsense. He's a spymaster and the ranking agent of the area, and he's clearly knowledgeable and educated, and shares both with you as part of your duties and introduction to the main quest.>but some guy at Bethesda thought it'd be funny to put a c pipe on a tableIt's part of his character, he's been immersed in a foreign culture for so long that he's partially gone native and picked up a vice. It's mentioned as a negative quality when he's describing why he's being recalled to the Imperial Province. He's the mentor in the hero's journey, and then you're all grown up and complete your journey on your own.For an actual example, contrast BG1 Minsc with BG3 Minsc.
>>3482332This anon is a good case study for the phenomena. Basically what happens, especially with boomer games that ultimately give fuck all proper characterization, is that the player will put an undeserved faith into the author and attribute random and not fully intentional aspects of the game as some deeply and richly laid out storytelling. On the one had, its actually kind of beutiful expression of players own creativity in making the world work even when the author just threw it together. On the other, it does promote insanely stupid "MUH OLD GAME HAS SOVL" naratives like "Irenicus is da most impactful villain evar!"
>>3482374>Irenicus is da most impactful villain evarI've never heard anyone say that because cRPG fans have very little consensus. More commonly people overpraise Kefka. I do agree with the sentiment that some nerds tend to fill in gaps in media and are far too fond of franchises in general.
>>3482316>I'm just an old man with a skooma problem. [before you give him your papers]>Internal politics. Some concern about my sugar. I thought about refusing the recall. But they have members of my family back in the capital. [when he leaves]He also has unique dialog for pretty much every subject you can talk with him about, it's just easy to overlook because it isn't overly personal but in the Morrowind explanatory style, the game doesn't indicate what's generic or not, and because other groups of NPCs will give statements similar to his.
>lmao barrels
>>3482288It happens with Dark Souls for example, which gives so little information it begs the player to fill in the gaps. There's the story about the creator reading books as a kid, not understanding them fully, and him wanting the player to experience that.Basically it allows anyone to come up with shit, and can end up being more engaging and personal. Pretty neat.
>>3482288Are you just talking about flanderization? Because that’s more of a thing with tv
>>3482308Sonic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUslMXFVvNcSonic Games? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy0SzDy6CWISonic Fans? https://youtu.be/pRR6XeY2BgM?t=5Sonic Thread? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCTtkA8Z1L8
>>3482483>RPG
>>3482316Why is every Morrowind NPC shirtless? I have no idea how volcanos work, is Morrowind really warm or something?
it's even worse when a game tries to do this in the game like a running joke. or in the sequel where they tune into 11 with it.
>>3482514There’s a running gag of Nord barbarians who have been bewitched by a foul sorceress and left paralyzed in the wilderness without their clothes. Then in an expansion there’s a shirtless Nord who is offended at the implication, he’s simply sweating due to thick blood in the heat
>>3482515>or in the sequel where they tune into 11 with it.Don Quixote pt. 2
>>3482316>>3482288I find this extremely true with old rpgs where your party members only speak in events for 2 seconds then follow you like drones, dragon quest before party chat and all mother games come to mind.But it gets even weirder when people not just exaggerate one quirk but straight up make up bullshit that never happens or is referenced in the games.I legitimate don't know how people can say any Mother game has deep or good characters when they barely say anything once they join your party or how dragon quest 4 had the best characters in the series (even before party chat was introduced this was still a common opinion)I don't understand how or why people get so attached to this literally nothing characters.There is also the Pokemon protagonists which all have the same personality >I'm a good guy and I like Pokemon :)Except Red and Selene, the former being silent like the games and the latter made into a dumb girl because of memes
>>3482533>Chicken-tan restricted to grid movement even in her rush to the bedThat's clever
autism thread
>>3482533People get attached to these nothing characters, thats why
>>3482374>This anon is a good case study for the phenomenaNah, Morrowind is just fresh in my mind from replaying it recently for the first time in a long time. I will concede that the anon I was replying to does have a point in that people do play up the "lmao skooma addict lel XD so zany" for memes, it is part of his character (and I think it's important to illustrate the 'undercover Imperial official isolated in a backwater province for years, goes native and picks up an unsavory vice' element of his character), but it really is just a couple lines of dialogue and noting the pipe in his room.Aside from that, most of his other points were inaccurate and unfair, as I noted in my response. His role in the story is precisely that of the mentor. He shepherds and guides you, and he's the liason between the outside world and the fucked up culture of the dunmer. Pretty much any aspect of local culture he will give you detailed info on, the factions, the politics, the religion, the history, practices and traditions, etc. His role is to step by step immerse you gradually and get you up to speed on WTF is going on and how you're involved. I still think that it's quite cleverly done.>On the other, it does promote insanely stupid "MUH OLD GAME HAS SOVL" naratives like "Irenicus is da most impactful villain evar!"I love BG1 and 2, and I will readily admit that a huge part of Irenicus's appeal is the voice actor (RIP) fucking nailed it, and had a lot of memorable lines with good delivery. Objectively speaking, I think Sarevok is probably superior as an antagonist and villain.
>>3482316I played the game once and it's not just a haha so funny random drug pipe on the house but not just the guy tells you he has a skooma problem but also the townsfolk mention he is a bum
>>3482686Meant to add, Caius will even give you advice on morally ambiguous questlines that many players, blindly following orders, fucked up, like the Fighter's Guild questline. I'm pretty sure Caius vouches for the dude in Ald-Ruhn who's the former guildmaster and says you can trust his judgement, when the questline diverges and you have the choice to end up a Camonna Tong stooge or not
>>3482308did someone say pancakes?
>>3482374This anon is a good example of University-educated illiteracy. Awareness of the intellectual trappings of academic historicization without any reading comprehension to apply it.
>>3482288Hyperfixation is a common trait among the autistic.
>>3482533She is the best Nu-pokemon protag by a mileYou used to have a bit of differentiation between the girls cause they'd show up in the anime and get some characterization that way (May, Dawn, and Serena all are distinct enough characters from each other and the blank slates) but since they stopped doing that and never used the boys they're back to being empty. >>3482691That's not really the same thing. It's just a meme associated with the character. No one - scratch that. very few people because I can't rule out the actual insane schizos actually think he's some kind of IHOP fanatic or something.
>>3482691No, we said cabbages
>>3482686>backwater provinceBalmora is an important trading city run by one of the most influential political houses on Tamriel.
>>3482691Modern Persona characters were all exactly as vacuous and one note as the OP image implies.
>>3483026>Balmora is an important trading city run by one of the most influential political houses on Tamriel.Balmora, sure, but I was speaking of the island of Vvardenfell in general. It’s a backwater compared to mainland Morrowind (or the rest of the Empire in general) because it was largely unsettled until relatively recently, it was basically a religious/wildlife preserve ran by the temple. It’s very much a frontier district. Look at how the Legion is only recruiting in Gnisis for example
This really has nothing to do with RPGs at all, does it? It's more about talking to people online.
>>3483102yes. now let me rant about my parasocial relationship with the internet
>>3482288Humans have imaginations. Put a drawing of a dragon with sword lodged in his butthole in front of the average person and their first thought will be "how did he get that sword lodged in his butthole?" The question leads to the imagination, which contains all possible answers.There was actually something charming about head canons in the past. I remember growing up in a small neighborhood and each kid had their own perception of the whys and hows of various characters and worlds from rpgs. Some wrote fan fiction, others drew scenes that never happened. It's just normal to imagine that characters have traits and stories beyond those that are depicted.The internet changed things because the internet is fundamentally a distillation machine that amplifies trends. While locally fans might have certain head canons, when they get online and start sharing them, those head canons spread faster and in a more destructive way. They become like cultural blackholes and begin to color the perception of everyone.The reason the internet differs so much from irl head canons of the past is that the vocal minority makes more noise. 100 people might not think a character is obsessed with bread while 10 do. If those 10 people are highly prolific posters, they will make it seem like EVERYONE thinks that character loves bread when really the vast majority just doesn't care, or has an entirely different perception that they don't care to voice.Before the internet, we had letters. A comedian once said "sane people don't write letters." This applies to the internet. Sane people don't leave comments. It requires a kind of madness to want to participate in internet discourse, just like it required a kind of madness to write letters to game devs. The internet by its nature distorts and amplifies until the original signal is lost.
>>3483295>The internet by its nature distortsHalf the shit people talk about here sounds like complete nonsense, and it's confusing until I remember that some people spend A LOT of time online.
>>3483295>Sane people don't leave comments.The silent masses nodding along aren't any more sane, that's the scary part of humanity. That which lurks within, it's why love is difficult for people who haven't accept their own ugliness.
>>3482288you are just sheltered and unable to see that everyone is obsessed with something. Football and car lovers are also gigantic territorial unfun nerds.
>>3483308I think the silent mass only tends to nod along dispassionately because it's expected. These are like the people you see at concerts who aren't vibing that deeply with the music, but who glance around, see that everyone else is, and start bobbing their heads awkwardly like "yeah, man, I might as well get into this I suppose, why not?" After the show, though, they return to baseline. If you ask them if they would see the band again, they'll be like "eh." I think this type of person characterizes the silent mass more than anything. I think most people have a take or leave it attitude, and when push comes to shove, won't fight hard for any particular stance. That job falls to the outliers. It's part of the 80/20 rule.It's the same with commenters and upvoters on places like youtube and reddit. They don't care passionately enough to comment themselves, so their expression of support doesn't come from a place of genuine passion or agreement, just surface level acknowledgment. I always see thumbs ups as representations of just "some dude" that sees something cool and goes "neat stuff," then forgets about it and gets on with life.Comments on the internet are almost always written by extremists when compared to normies. The internet is a social and cultural coliseum of sorts. The audience watches silently and participates as witnesses, but no individual audience member has the same drive for violence as those on the sand. The paradox is that the events in the battle arena get codified into the audience's minds because the spectacle resonates more strongly than the mundane. In the case of head canons, the spectators can actually lose their own beliefs or modify them to fit the extremes they've just witnessed. It's why the internet is a double edged sword, allowing for complete exchange of knowledge, but at the cost of individuality and autonomy.I'm no different. I wrote this shit about the internet because I have extreme views about the internet.
I thinks it's a case of narrative conservation of detail. If the devs thought it was important enough to put a model and texture a bong and porn magazine on the couch of a character's room along with a pair of unwashed trousers, the viewer automatically assumes that they prioritized those things specifically because they are significant representations of the character. Fans run wild with it and the character becomes increasingly stereotyped as a unwashed porn addicted stoner. And maybe he is to some degree, but the echo chamber effect causes everyone to forget that his nuances. His thematic arc might have actually been about overcoming death and tragedy and becoming a messianic space fighter pilot, but that's a harder idea to bottle and sell, so the internet just uses "dirty stoner porn guy" as a shorthand.
>>3482308the king himself
>>3482316he outright states he's hooked on in, retard
Ulysses from New Vegas.>BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL BEAR AND BULL
>>3482316I was prepping to agree with you that this guy is a retard >>3482332 but I actually checked here https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Caius_Cosades and it turns out that Caius does have a lot of dialogue, and he even mentions being a drug addict in addition to the fact that other characters also refer to him as a drug addict.The motherfucker just presents himself so blandly I feel like the vast majority of people don't actually read what the fuck he's saying because he has the charisma of a baked potato.
>>3483890>I feel like the vast majority of people don't actually readMaybe you don't. I did.
>>3482288It's pretty bad with translators. In various games characters have had 80% of their dialogue re-written to be flanderized versions of the 20% they decided to leave in.
>>3482288I feel like it's the opposite, players reading more intelligent writing and motivations into shallow gimmick characters
>>3482514The guy with you at the start is a prisoner in the hull of a boat in the tropics and caius is a spy posing as a penniless crackheadAnd I guess vivec is a god that doesn't want to wear a shirtCan't think of any other significant shirtless people
>>3482686These people play morrowind for 20 minutes without fixing the text size so they can't actually read anything and then just assume anyone that has engaged with the game is lying about what is in it
>>3483931>caius is a spy posing as a penniless crackheadPosing?
>>3483988Its a hobby ok
>>3483344Nah, there's no so thing as a normalfag, just an extremely large variance in intelligence among homo sapiens. You get these people drunk and have a personality that opens them up and they spill their weird ass opinions the same as anyone else. The internet isn't a coliseum, it's a panopticon.
>>3482288Because devs go along with it, just look at ff7 remake, this piece of trash is designed for these kind of people
>>3484056Which is why fanservice is the death of creativity. I fucking loathe it.
>>3486126>FF7: Funny bit were Red is walking around disguised as a soldier and nobody notices. it doesn't draw attention, but all your characters being in disguise and scattered through the ship gives a bit of life and humor to the voyage before shit hits the fan.>FF7r: OMG RED IN A SOLDIER COSTUME! LOOK AT HIM MOON WALK!! REMEMBER THE OLD GAME IT'S SO FUNNEH!!!
>>3482332>For an actual example, contrast BG1 Minsc with BG3 Minsc.Minsc was always a dumb comic relief character. It's exactly why they brought him back for BG3.
>>3486154He was a sillier character to be sure, and certainly comic relief but there are degrees. Characters get a joke or a shtick and they take it too far. Some of the comic books even got really ridiculous.
>>3486159>Some of the comic books even got really ridiculous.This is part of the reason I can't take it serious when people get mad at BG3 for fucking the lore. WOTC already fucked the lore in all holes before BG3 was made with the dogshit official novelization and sequel comics.
>>3483350There's also the case of people wanting to Prove They Are A True Fan by sticking to 'lore' and 'canon' when they write fanfic, and sometimes haven't actually got that much real detail to work with when they try, obviously maximised more in an episodic environment. So they go with visible and obvious hooks that they can hang their I'm A Fan hat on, and then meme magic does the rest.You then also have times when meme magic becomes more fan-accepted than actual canon, but that's a whole other post.
>>3486165>This is part of the reason I can't take it serious when people get mad at BG3 for fucking the lore. WOTC already fucked the lore in all holes before BG3 was made with the dogshit official novelization and sequel comics.Both being true doesn’t negate each being true separately. Simply means that we must be precise about who did what. WotC didn’t rape Balduran’s corpse, for instance, although you do have a point overall.
>>3482299You sound like a jarpigger so post discarded
>>3483069Most of Cyrodiil is boring as shit. They have the Imperial city, most of which was of Ayleid origin. Most of the cool places on Tamriel are of non-Cyro design. Romaboos need to get off their high horses and stop pretending their fantasy r*mans are the be all end all of civilization.
there's no consuming skooma "once or twice". once you're in, you're married to the pipe. don't do drugs, kids
>>3487647>pig>>>/ck/
>>3491910
>>3482316Jesus what a retarded post>>3483890>oh, I was wrong? it's the game's fault for not shoving it down my throat like my boyfriend's cock
>>3482514It is hot. It's also very dusty so people wrap up the bottom of their pants sometimes like Caius has
>>3492072>oh, I was wrong? it's the game's faultMany people lack the maturity to simply admit being wrong, and it's hard to let go of the misconceptions.>the game wasn't as boring as i thought? well i didn't know that because i thought the game is boring!
>>3486165>This is part of the reason I can't take it serious when people get mad at BG3 for fucking the loreI certainly think people are right to be upset about it. It not being a new problem doesn't mean it's not a problem. Every new thing has a chance to correct where stuff went to far. Instead they always double down.
>>3482308
