Any fangames you've made lately? Share it all, even the ones you didn't make.
I should probably try out Naranja.
>>3925338It's good.It's beta, but is good.Bonus there's more to look forward to.
>>3925328The fangames archive for anyone who hasn't played the fangames made herehttps://rentry.org/mtt-fangames#mtt-brand-fangame-archive
>>3925328Naranja introduced the concept of Out-of-Bounds to Undertale's lore, what other video game concepts could be introduced to Undertale through fangames?
>>3925349I have an idea for some really obscure and specific references to some things in my fangame which I'd rather not share because it'd spoil the surprise.
Someone said the phrase "yesterday means the surface" near the end of the last thread. Is that a reference to something?
>>3925357"tomorrow means the surface" was the motto of the Steamworks from UTY
>>3925328reminder that ceroba is fat
Hirondelle is the best surname for Martlet hands down.
>>3925390I prefer Martin
>>3925390I'm very partial to Valravn, for obvious reasons.
>>3925390Personally I prefer Brighton, I like the idea of a cowboy like Clover/Cole having an extremely british sounding surname
kanaclover won some random twitter poll
>>3925420May I see it?
>>3925420roba's bonkalonkadohdonkas
Not a fangame, but here is the first half of my Martlet x Anon fic (still haven't figured out a title): https://files.catbox.moe/1vucyc.rtfScan for viruses if you'd like. Who knows what a .rtf can do? Blame Pastebin's "SMART" filter for forcing me to use catboxThis is a learning experience for me as much as it is a fun pastime, so don't be shy to lob any and all criticism at me. I'm going to really get back into the swing of things today and it's good to have anons' feedback to know what I should work on improving or whether this style of writing is any good.
>>3925449you could have put it in a txt file too
>>3925451Here you go: https://files.catbox.moe/xqvgxt.txt>>3925420I don't know who the artist is but that's beautiful. His audience has good taste.
>>3925454>>3925434the artist is sebtoons (Seb_Pirata on twitter)drew other big robas and marts and other waifus too
>>3925456Thank you anon! I'll extend a word of caution to anyone going to his E6, since a few of his NSFW drawings are futa or hyper. Most of the cute stuff is on his Twitter.
>>3925463goodness, I really wasn't expecting that looking at >>3925420I even saw the original poll had Dalvkeeper as an option
Kanako sex moment https://files.catbox.moe/91x2qi.png
>>3925420Coke's cans
>>3925449you can put fics in rentry, you know. That's what the guys on /trash/ do.
>>3925463hyper what?
>>3925474Just checked, there is only one pic tagged with hyper_penis, another that could qualify as hyper butt and a few futa drawings, its nowhere near as bad as that anon described it
>>3925473Sorry for being a newfag with this. This is the first full-length story I've bothered to write, let alone "publish." Rentry's way better since I can just paste the second half when that's done.Here's the link: https://rentry.co/m4cttqru
>>3925456he did a fantastic one of fat ceroba
>>3925479>>3925463>>3925449Finally giving it a read before I get started on some writing myself for the day. Focusing has been difficult with a fever, so I seek comfort in the arms of a bird.
Reposting the both of them since I finished the second one relatively shortly before the last thread ended.Ceroba lactating: https://files.catbox.moe/hkkmu7.pngMartlet lactating: https://files.catbox.moe/csk5j6.png
>>3925406A French surname would be more funny.
>>3925507Jesus, I would accept a mouthful of feathers in a heartbeat. Did you say you were working on something else now for valentines?
>>3925518>Did you say you were working on something else now for valentines?Indeed I did, though it's become a race against time in multiple ways now.
>>3925270what sort of psychopath goes "ah yes, please deliver my fetish commission to me in .webp format please"?
Hey guys. thought I'd make my presence known early!Working on doing more requests and working on the Valentine's day request drawing featuring Kanako and Cole or Clover.Of course I got more highly requested Martlet/Zenith Martlet requests to.So here's hoping I can do those in good time!
>>3925530>>3925520Looking forward to both of yours, and Sigs stuff coming up. No pressure if it's not ready on the weekend, I'm excited for it when it gets here.
>>3925527Probably the same kind of person who looks at images like that and gets turned on anyway.It reminds me of that time I looked at r/UTY literally once and saw that someone had posted petrification fetish art that had over a thousand upvotes and was at the top of the page, with dozens of people in the comments asking if the obvious fetish art was fetish art.
>>3925533its funny seeing something like that, but then someone posts Sigs art and you get the "umm, mods? isn't this pornographic?"
>>3925534I guess it is technically less obviously sexual if you don't already know what you're looking at.Here it is, if you feel like looking at it: https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/comments/1m1lxkj/mind_the_flowers/
>>3925532The other end result of that is good as well. This one is cute as hell.
>>3925535yeah I'll be honest if someone who's never heard of the fetish was looking at that one, it doesn't have as many of the clear signs of being fetish art in how it's drawn. Though it definitely is.
>>3925538Well, taking a look at some of the artist's other works definitely leaves little room for interpretation, but meh.
>>3925479>chujin's alive>there can't be a ceroba x anon spinofflame
>>3925541that's no surprise, but I'm talking about stuff like that one image "when the artist draws liquids and it's clear they only know how to draw cum". the first image doesn't have red flags like that for the uninitiated. You even see a lot of people thinking it must be some kind of "Ceroba in the wrong dark world" take, which admittedly is a topic I'm sure those fetishists had a field day with.
>>3925349Undertale yellow introduced the concept of a soul battling within the mind, or what it's like from the souls point of view when they resist getting absorbed, or having the souls fused to a monsters.The meta Flowey adds an interesting idea that when a monster takes in a soul they can interact with the soul with their mind, while also having access to their memories, and that the mindset is influenced by the monster in question.I also like that this shows a human soul can't be fully absorbed unless the human allows it, otherwise they'll just continue to resist for potentially forever.I can see the appeal and interest for those fics and images of Clover being reborn with Martlet or Zenith Martlet using this concept and baseline.Especially when exploring how Martlet addresses all the messed up stuff Clover has gone through when experiencing his memories, once she's taken in his soul.
>>3925543your greed sickens me
>>3925548>I also like that this shows a human soul can't be fully absorbed unless the human allows it, otherwise they'll just continue to resist for potentially forever.I get the impression from undertales endings, that the line is a bit blurred the more souls there are? with 6 souls flowey absorbed them but they were still able to rebel afterwards, with the equivalent of 7 souls, the option to reach out to the original 6 souls wasn't even there and it took reaching out to some of the individual monster souls making up that makeshift 7th. I'm wondering if 7 souls is a sweet spot for magic in general creating some kind of equilibrium so that things like the barrier or a 7 souled monster need extra measures to disrupt.
>>3925543it sounds like its in the DRY setting where we already know Chujin is alive. I'm all for the fox, but the thought of stealing her from someone else sours it for me.It's kind of like that conversation about the bird getting with Chujin only works if Chujin and Ceroba never got together
>>3925550Maybe it depends on how strong the monster is, we know Flowey is weak as shit
>>3925555was he? we know he was cowardly, but he's the only monster that can hit you for 19 damage in one hit. He had More DT than a monster but less than some humans.
>>3925558>but he's the only monster that can hit you for 19 damage in one hit.That's most likely because he caught us by surprise, not even Omega Flowey deals that amount of damage>He had More DT than a monster but less than some humans.Yeah, but Flowey isn't a monster so DT might not even have an effect on how strong he is
>>3925543I am a strict monogamist, so I won't write it myself, but don't let that stop you if you really want it. Ceroba and Chujin will be featured in the story at some point.>>3925550Stuff like numerology and kabbalah probably has an answer for this. I don't think Toby went so far as to research that stuff for his game, he just thought it was a cool concept.>>3925554It's directly based on DRY1 a short time after the game has taken place. Cole is namedropped and I tried to describe the town like it is in-game, but I might still have left it unclear. I hope it's not confusing to people who've played UTY but not DRY1.>>3925558He also directly breaks the "rules" to inflict undodgeable attacks. No other enemy does this; even Sans in genocide just bends the rules, and can use an undodgeable attack only if you spare him and leave yourself vulnerable.
>>3925560>not even Omega Flowey deals that amount of damageOmega flowey is the only monster (that we know of since AGOHD doesn't do it for whatever reason) that can one shot you from full health. in truth I get the impression that DT is basically rule breaking juice, most rpgs don't let the player get one shot from full health (dungeon crawlers are a notable exception), but flowey does a few things that other monsters don't at different points.
>>3925532>Looking forward to both of yours,Thank you anon, it always brings me immense joy to hear that people actively look forward to seeing my nonsense.
>>3925561>He also directly breaks the "rules" to inflict undodgeable attacks. No other enemy does this; even Sans in genocide just bends the rulesI think this ties into >>3925562some. I get the impression that the world of undertale operates on unspoken rules. I wonder about when asgore broke the mercy button, is it because boss monsters have a bit more determination than normal monsters? do boss monsters just have specific additional privileges in this world?
>>3925555>>3925558I mean the problem there is that our line for how "strong" Flowey is, is hypothetically, he couldn't beat Asgore, and it's intentionally vague if this is a bluff to try and convince Frisk to stop on the genocide route, or an accurate statement given even suicidally depressed over murdering the will to live out of several children, Asgore can nail you for 6-8 damage and force you into what is basically an inescapable fight.
>>3925565>I mean the problem there is that our line for how "strong" Flowey is, is hypothetically, he couldn't beat AsgoreI thought it was that he couldn't get Asgore to reveal the souls, not that he never beat him. It's been a long time since I poured through the specifics of his dialogue but I remember a line like "i've killed everyone I've saved everyone"
>>3925566Again, fully willing to admit I could be wrong, but it feels intentionally vague if Flowey is telling the truth on a genocide route and given the game's conventions, "Killing everyone" even for Flowey would be impossible.
>>3925530>>3925563Considering the number of requests I can't imagine how much work that is. I have to say, it can feel good to "sprint" and work for hours on end rushing stuff out you love making. Just don't overdo it. Plan to take a day's rest afterward, because it will leave you exhausted. I don't think any of us are ready for the flood of cuteness that is headed our way on St. Valentine's Day.>>3925564It can be symbolically interpreted as Asgore believing he doesn't deserve mercy and refusing to leave you alone until you kill him. However since almost everything in Undertale is diagetic there isn't much basis for that claim.
>>3925567that's completely fair, it leaves a lot up to IMAGINATION I guess and even I'm just going off of interpretations. It's kind of odd to me actually that he does the vine attacks in yellow without the souls, I always figured that in the true pacifist ending when he wraps everyone in vines, that you would assume he was in possession of the souls.
>>3925568>diageticthere's probably a little bit of line blurring on that on toby's part. Not to act like he's the perfect plan master but he could have inteded it to be both a literal shattering of the mercy button, and also symbolic of how Asgore feels.
>>3925571Isn't the spare option canonically a form of magic? maybe the idea is that by breaking the MERCY button Asgore is sealing Frisk's spare magic
>>3925550I don't think it matters how many souls you absorb, they can resist either way. Sure having more souls makes you more powerful, but it won't stop them from resisting in the end, nor can it stop someone else from meddling with the souls either like with Asriel.Not to mention every monster soul in the underground was the equivalent of one human soul, and just like with Photoshop Flowey, it was only momentary.The only instance of a human soul permanently being absorbed and fused with a monster soul was Chara, because they allowed it to happen.It's like with those talks with Zenith Martlet absorbing Clover's soul into herself so he can be reborn within her. She can take in his soul, at which point, his soul is now with her body, but she won't be able to fully absorb it, until Clover allows it to happen.
>>3925568Oh, I'm not the one taking requests this time, I'm the anon who made those lactation images and is currently working on a (non milk-related) UTY thing for Valentine's day, sorry to disappoint.
>>3925573Actually yeah I remember that. It's not mentioned in the game I believe, but in the instruction manual for the demo (was that also included in the full release?)
>>3925575>I don't think it matters how many souls you absorb, they can resist either way.>Sure having more souls makes you more powerful, but it won't stop them from resisting in the end, nor can it stop someone else from meddling with the souls either like with Asriel.what I'm going with though, is that the human souls aren't shown to resist at all in the 7 soul version, it's only the souls that are emotionally connected to frisk that he's able to reach, and the thing is, those souls don't seem to resist the same way they did with omega flowey, instead only returning Asriels emotions who then proceeds to give up the powers of his own will. I agree in the case of those single absorptions and even the 6 soul absorption, but it's at least significantly harder with 7 souls.there's an interesting line somewhere I think from gerson though that supports what you're saying, where Gerson seems to think that even if they get 7 souls, they'll just get sealed back underground again. I think it's gotta be the case that it's harder for them to resist when there's that perfect 7
I love Kanaclover so much that i drew them and the hypoteticall childrens they would have
>>3925589
>>3925589should I be worried about the creature behind can of coke
>>3925479>when anon called to ask for some of the money after the fact FOR SHAME
>>3925595anon really is quite unlikable
>>3925593If I recall that's an amalgam monster with Kako that usually takes the shape of a scarf or something along those lines?
>>3925581Different anon here, but to reiterate what the other one said, Flowey didn't absorb seven human souls, he absorbed the six, which as previous stated rebelled and left Flowey basically dead in Neutral, and all the monster souls in the Underground.One human soul was the equivalent of every monster in the Underground. That's the power difference between a human and monster.And those individual monster souls weren't snuffed out, they weren't permanently absorbed, could be communed with, and even unsuppressed.I highly doubt there's any equilibrium or anything like that, especially when Nabstablok completely no selled what Flowey tried to do. As well as the fact Frisk on his own could dismantal what Asriel did from within. The situation with Asriel Dreemur was no different from Photoshop Flowey. He forcibly took the human souls into himself, and was using them as power batteries, only he did this with the monster souls of the underground.I remember someone else mentioning this, it's entirely possible the human souls didn't rebel like last time because they were preoccupied saving the other monster souls within Asriel, just like how Frisk was saving the souls of the monsters he met on their journey.
>>3925467im glad people appreciate dalv like I do in other UTY spaces, he deserves to be happy
>>3925593Not really, it's just the monster Kanako fused with
>>3925550>>3925561In scriptural numerology, 7 is the number for spiritual completeness. Maybe that has something to do with it.
>>3925602>And those individual monster souls weren't snuffed out, they weren't permanently absorbed, could be communed with, and even unsuppressed.to be fair, we don't know what full absorption entails, chara and asriel were aware of eachother while they were fused, the 6 souls could be communed with just like the monster souls, I'm not against the idea of the souls helping like you said, but if AGOHD isn't full absorption, we don't know what perfect absorption actually looks like since asriel and chara happened long before the game. I think it's important though that with AGOHD, even with all the meddling, the souls aren't forcibly taken from Asriel, he gives them up willingly.
>>3925607>it's just the monster Kanako fused withI'm worried
>>3925603I've said it before, but people here giving Dalv more personality than he had in his game, while trying to fit it into what may be "realistic' makes me invested in him a lot more.it takes me from "who is this?" to "our boy was robbed."
>>3925530Looking forward to what you for the Valentine's day with Kanako.Here's hoping you decide to do any of the requests that add more to the bird clover au series of the images that you've been doing.Just want to say I'm big fan of how draw Martlet and her Zenith form. I can't pinpoint it exactly, but I really like how you draw their bodies.It's very well proportioned.
>>3925568>>3925564I think Undertale has unspoken rules, but they can be bent, side stepped or broken, and there are multiple methods to do this. Determination is the most direct way, you're literally enforcing your will upon reality, or rather enforcing your power of protagonism on reality. With enough determination, you can do literally anything. There is another way though, the rules can also be subverted via obscure meta knowledge. This is what Sans gets all his power from, since he very obviously doesn't have the physical stats to have DT. It also explains how weird his powers are.Now these powers aren't mutually exclusive, those with high DT tend to have enough insight to percieve the gamey-ness of their reality and will learn to exploit it eventually, but a person without DT can do these exploits if they gain the knowledge, and some of this knowledge seems to need more than just raw DT and curiosity to find.
>>3925619That feels the most right to me. It always bothered me when people wrote stories like "Sans is actually running off a DT injection in his fight" which admittedly I haven't seen in a long time but I remember a lot some years ago.on that note, I get the impression that boss monsters may know a bit about the "rules" to some extent. we all know about Asgore nodding sadly when you tell him how many times he killed you, but Toriels reaction if you come back after killing her is very telling. I can't find a video with the exact dialogue as all my search results are for what flowey says, but its something unique that always gave me the impression that she knows more than she lets on, but is in active denial of it.
>>3925573Its determination, which is its own thing
>>3925611I mean, what did you think was going to happen when Ceroba left her with Alphys?
>>3925593not the artist but thats an amalgam called joko which is fused into kanako in that AUalso has feelings for clover (or kanako's feelings spill through it)
>>3925621>>3925573>>3925577found the page in question
>>3925620She says something like "no, it can't be." which heavily implies she knows of the ability to save and load, but doesn't believe Frisk is doing it.
>>3925627I think that fits Toriels personality a lot then. She seems to avoid her problems to the point of trying to live as if they aren't there until the end of true pacifist
>>3925626Like I said, its a determination power. Not magic.
>>3925629yeah, you're right, but here's an unanswerable question. Determination is different from magic, but in what way exactly? I like the expression that it's the power to reach "an ending" but what actually makes it different from magic. I'm not arguing that it isn't different either.
>>3925632Determination, fundamentally is protagonism. Its how important to the story a character is. The more determination they have, the more important they are. The more important they are, the more the world bends around them to get them where they need to be. Its a reality warping power with heavy ties to the meta elements of the story.Magic by contrast, appears to be a kind of bizarre matter. It has physicality to it, is controlled by emotion, and seems to be mostly physical in its effects. Its mostly a physical phenomenon, is stored in the body, and is tied to the non-meta normal rpg side of the game.They are mechanically, thematically, and physically different from one another.
>>3925634>magic is physicalthat's odd isn't it, the thing that in most settings is described as this ineffable "something" with no true form is much more solid in undertale?that's aside from the fact that it's described as being much less physical than humans are with how monsters turn to dust when they die, so it's not literally physical, but it seems much more tangible than determination, despite again determination having a physical extract that can be drawn from souls somehow.
>>3925479Alright, I got around to reading this and I loved it and felt a STRONG NEED FOR BIRD by the end. It was a huge relief when Anon fessed up to his ulterior motives without going for them. Anon was definitely a bit of a jerk in the first half (understandably with the way he was introduced to this town), but it felt like as the dinner went on, he was realizing this a little and even engaged in the small talk more willingly. I also wasn't expecting the kiss and it was great. At some point I saw you mention something about getting down the way characters talk, I'm still learning that myself but something I heard once was that "punctuation is your voice as an author", and while there are rules to it and all that, it can definitely be part of a characters voice. I've had programs tell me to put punctuation into sentences where I'm trying to make the person sound frantic intentionally jumbling their sentence, and other times where I added punctuation where it wasn't strictly needed because I wanted those little stops and pauses to be a part of the characters voice. I don't think Martlet and Anon sounded the same, they both seemed to use different words in certain places, and I got a feeling for what kind of people they were, but maybe that would help you in some way if you're ever feeling like the sentences are getting samey. Also, I like to in a way punctuate the dialogue with gestures sometimes but I don't know if it is actually good to do that so take it with a grain of salt. regardless I really enjoyed it, and I hope anon can get out of his own head just enough to continue wooing the bird.
>>3925223>her drawing in the artbook is named "bero"huh I could swear it was "beru"why did they have to make the artbook file so damn large?
>>3925622preferably she wouldn't mix the goo people together
>>3925642Beru is better because it sounds cute
>>3925655Beri. Take it or leave it.
>>3925657oh yeah anon? I'll have you know I can't think of anything but resident evil hearing that
>>3925635Magic is more similar to matter than determination. Its not regular matter, but it is something that physically exists and you can touch. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to touch monsters. Magic is probably some form of material like dark matter or antimatter, where its similarly physical, but made of fundamentally different stuff. Determination is more like an energy. Though I don't really know how to factor what that soul liquid is, my best guess is that its like photons are to light. Its some kind of particle that contains the energy.
>>3925660>Otherwise you wouldn't be able to touch monsters.Ýou can touch monsters because they have physical matter too on top of their magic, its just less than humans and their matter turns into dust when they die
>>3925653Yeah, but this is Alphys we're talking about.
>>3925663Monsters are made of 70% magic. They would be either soft and spongy or super brittle if magic wasn't physical. Plus bullets, which are also made purely of magic, wouldn't behave like solid objects. Undyne wouldn't be able to smash a table with her spear, Frisk wouldn't be able to pick it up and point at things, Toriel wouldn't be able to knock Flowey around with her bullets, Papyrus would need a cabinet to store all of his bones, you wouldn't be able to carry all the game's food in your pockets, nor would it sit on a table, since its all made of magic too.The only way any of this works is if magic is physical.
>>3925566Based on statements made by Flowey he couldn't beat Asgore in a fight, and he also couldn't beat Sans either. Chances are there's probably others monsters he can't beat as well.Despite Flowey having the power to save, load and reset at the time, he did make it clear there were certain individuals that he couldn't beat.You have to remember Flowey's reset like hundreds of times. He's interacted with the monsters of the underground before, so it makes sense he knows what he can and can't do.The problem isn't he doesn't know where the souls are, the issue is that there's certain individuals that can and have stopped him, preventing Flowey from going through with his plan.It's for that reason he only acts when Asgore is at deaths door in Neutral, because at that point he weak enough to be disposed of, and he can get the souls without issue, and how he got the souls in pacifist, because everyone was preoccupied with stopping the fight between Frisk and Asgore, to worry about the unattended human souls.
>>3925669>the problem isn't he doens't know where the souls areI'm going back through floweys dialogue in game so I may have missed something, but he has this to say "The king has six ofthem locked away.I've tried hundredsof ways to get himto show me them...But he just won't."and this to say about sans"Say.If I have ONE pieceof advice for you...DON'T.Let his brother.Find out ANYTHINGabout you.He'll... well...Let's just say.He's caused me morethan my fair shareof resets."I'm still looking, but the first one isn't definitive, and alongside the "I've killed everyone" statement could just mean it took him a lot of tries, but again his "I've killed everyone' thing could just be a lie.For Asgore though it seems pretty straight forward, he could never get Asgore to bring the souls out no matter what he tried, which seems to imply more that he either doesn't know where they are, or doesn't know how to get them out.
>>3925673>the first oneI mean that for the second one. Also interestingly, as much as people love leaning on "smiley trashbag" when writing flowey, he only says it one time it seems. I've seen that phrase hundreds of times, many repeatedly in the same story I think.
>>3925673>>3925669I'm surprised no one's mentioned one very important crucial fact. Neutral always happens first before Pacifist in Undertale.At the point Flowey definitely knows where the humans soul are, and how to get them, and yet he's still unable to get them, unless Asgore is dead, or distracted.Which would heavily imply just like with Sans, Flowey can't beat Asgore in a straight up fight.
>>3925673He probably killed Asgore, Sans and any other problematic monsters while they were sleeping or had their guard down in general
>>3925680it's important to remember, in those situations he no longer has control over the timeline like he did before you got there, and he's a bit of a coward. in the chance that he can take asgore in a fight (with enough resets), he doesn't have that option anymore and is notably too much of a coward to try it .>>3925681I suppose that's fair, but still the way his dialogue goes, it doesn't outright say he never beat sans, just that he took a fair amount of resets which is true for most players as well. well, loads but flowey seems to use Reset more often than Load
I'm rereading back over Partners right now, and I have to say I really like the balance it has in how it mixes addressing "game peculiarities" with treating things as facts of life. I've seen a lot of stories really stumble with working the battle menu into the exposition while being overly self aware, but Partners feels like it pokes at it sometimes while still treating it seriously.
>>3925681Sans demonstrated the ability to dodge even while he's sleeping. So I highly doubt Flowey was able to pull that of. We quite literally were only able to beat Sans by straight up cheating.Undyne has proven that fatally damaging her won't kill her, because she's to determined to not die, and chances are she'd just Undying if Flowey is going on a killing spree, or she senses that Flowey is dangerous, which would be very obvious.Toriel could send Flowey flying with just a casual fireball. Like she wasn't even trying. It was the equivalent of swatting away a fly.Point is, while I do agree there's some monsters that Flowey may be able to do that to, other monsters are just way to powerful for him to really do anything to, even if he tried to sneak them.
>>3925686I highly doubt Undyne would go Undying on Flowey, unless he already started a killing spree, chances are she did go Undying, Flowey couldn't beat her, loaded a save and then killed Undyne firstUndyne doesn't go super saiyan when you kill her in the neutral route
you're sure you didn't put a virus in that text file?
>>3925696you sure DRYanon and Naranja anon didn't put a virus in their games? your computer might be infected with a cryptominer if you played either of their games
>they don't know about GasterCoin
>>3925699Nah, we're on GasterAI now.
>>3925681if he could kill everyone including asgore then he could just take the soulshe'd have infinite time to find them
I miss my Gaster NFTs...
>>3925701NOOOOOOOOO MY LIQUID FUNDS
>>3925706This feels an exchange from one of the games
>>3925707A monster started to invest in a new type of currency, which literally comes in liquid form. You open the tap where he stores his funds and then he proceeds to say that line.
>>3925688>Undyne doesn't go super saiyan when you kill her in the neutral routeshe tries to but can't
>>3925530Work at your own pace Martlet Drawanon. Try not to overwork yourself.With that being said I'm looking forward to seeing what happen after this Kanako x Cole image assuming that's what you decide to do for valentines day.https://files.catbox.moe/7ej9x4.pngAlso looking forward to see more being added to this au you ended up drawing for bird Clover. Also if it hasn't been said already great job on the designs, for normal and Zenith influence.https://files.catbox.moe/568jzf.png
>>3925709No I meant that whole conversation. I could see it being an exchange between Susie and some random darkner. Maybe if you could recruit Spamton this would be a conversation between him and her.
I don't know if this counts as a fangame, but I found a cool youtube video where a guy plays through a "broken copy of Undertale". There's not a playable release, but it looks like he really did make a game in RPG maker for this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNO-O2xWNzQ
>>3925721I know it's the edgiest nonsense around, but I can't help but watch all the way through the helptale stuff when it shows up
>>3925722This isn't helptale. Its not even that edgy. Really its pretty similar in tone to the main game, just with lower quality art. And a quarter of the jokes are comedically timed crashes.
>>3925712Wait wait wait what?When did the Martlet drawanon make a bird Clover design, based on whether he's reborn within Martlet or Zenith?How did I not notice this? This is an awesome design. I hope we see more stuff from this setting.
>>3925698you can extract the source code of both of those, they are in godot
>>3925638Thank you so much for reading it! Judging by your feelings I think I managed to hit the mark. I was worried I made him too unlikeable, past the realm of good-hearted comedy and into being an unsympathetic specimen. Learning to get past his flaws and misanthropy is meant to be a process Martlet would help him through. He definitely didn't deserve that kiss but hopefully he works toward earning it and more. Also it may not be obvious yet but both Martlet and Cole are flawed in their own ways and while there won't be so much of a dramatic change for them, I do want to explore that dynamic a little.>I hope anon can get out of his own head just enough to continue wooing the bird.I like the first person singular perspective because it allows for a focus on a character's own motivations, flawed as they may be, and how he can misinterpret the world. It's great for mystery, horror as well as comedy. I haven't seen it used much in romance, but I haven't read many romance stories in the first place, and Anon is, besides his greed and self-centeredness, a sort of self-insert for the reader. It let me avoid using a generic "Anon" name in favor of a name the reader comes up with on his own, which hopefully counters some of the relatability issues the protag has.
>>3925746>self-insert for the readerdoes anybody here act like anon?
>>3925746> I was worried I made him too unlikeable he was kind of in that territory at the start, but in such a way that I just found myself hoping as I read "I hope he improves as a person". I was thinking "I'm giving this guy some grace for what just happened, but I swear to god if I asks for the money he's a lowlife!" the way that it developed with him not only feeling like a heel for it, but actually addressing it to her made it actually feel like when Martlet said she thought he was good at heart, that it wasn't just bullshit you know? I liked how that actually developed. So yeah I'm enjoying the idea of it actually progressing and this guy facing his own flaws as things go on. He deserved the comeuppance on the spicy food, I remember that topic coming up in a thread actually oh and on getting out of anons head, I didn't mean getting out of first person perspective. I'm talking about the mindset he was in. it's another way of saying I hope he pulls his head out of his ass. It was a cool step seeing him realize over the course of the date how guilty he felt for his plans, but actually manning up and taking responsibility for that is a good start.
Partners Anon posted chapter 14 didn't he? I'm about caught up and I don't remember if it was in the last thread here or on /v/, if anyone has a link
>>3925767I found it in the last /v/ thread that hadn't yet gone under, I fell behind on partners for a bit cause I accidentally read a spoiler not realizing a chapter was out, but honestly that little spoiler couldn't have prepared me for how it all went down. I'm on the edge of my seat for the next chapter is all I can really say.I'm sure there's more suffering ahead for them, but I will continue to hope that somehow, things will work out.
>>3925775I hope so too. Can't imagine what Mart will do when she watches the tape
>>3925783it's been running through my mind. it's hard imagining her not eventually finding a way forward, a way to justify that she needs to do something more. That's the tape in specific where chujin admits to using axis to kill integrity right? I actually missed it myself when I played through. I don't think she's just going to do a 180 instantly, but I can't imagine her being ok with what she learns.
>>3925784She sure as hell won't be happy. but at the end of the day I hope she and Clover get back together. Someone has to rein in the murderhobo child and it sure as fuck won't be Flowey or Ceroba and Starlo.
>>3925530Hey Martlet Drawanon, I've made some progress on the fic I was working on based on your Clover being reborn within Zenith Martlet drawings.It's still a wip, but I thought share some of what I've done. Others can share their thoughts to.>Clover wasn't quite sure how to describe this sudden peculiar change of circumstance...>Anger was all he could feel. Hatred was all that came to mind when he thought of monsters.>But he didn't have such feelings when he fought Martlet. Even during a life or death battle.>Was that why Clover faltered? Was that why he hesitated every so often during their fight?>He could see Martlet's reactions. A perplexed look. Like some kind of certainty was shattered.>At some point Clover felt the two of them were forcing a fight. As if someone had to die no matter.>Maybe that's why Clover decided to just...stop. Take the hit, and just let death take him. He was...tired of all this.>But death never came. A huge wave of pain did instead. Martlet weakened the blow at the last second. Seemed she caught onto something.>Clover remembered her face as she looked at his injured but still alive body.>Confused, angry, sorrow, regret...pity?>It looked like she saw something she wanted to see. Like she knew it was always there, but angry that she saw it.>Clover didn't understand. He was just tired. He just wanted her to end it. What did it matter? He'd just end up fighting her again. Clover never really had a choice.>That's why he just left his soul out to make it easier. An easy death. An easy kill for her.>But death...never came.>She didn't shatter it. Or crush it. Or slice it apart, like she did in previous fights.>After staring at Clover, as if she was contemplating something, she reached out and grabbed his soul...gently.>After what he did, Martlet was holding his soul gently? Why? He doesn't deserve mercy. Clover knows that.>And yet... this bird of prey was so careful about his soul now.
>>3925877>Clover felt uneasy. He was weakened. Vulnerable. Waiting for a demise that seemingly never came.>Dying felt so natural, that somehow it felt wrong that he wasn't dead yet.>Martlet just...held the soul in her hands. She just stared it. She stared at Clover. That back at the soul.>What was she thinking? Clover couldn't tell. He was just waiting for death.>But the death...never came.>Why wasn't he dead yet? Why wasn't she killing him? Why wasn't anything happening like usual.>Clover was still injured. He was still exhausted. He was at her mercy, just like the other times.>But there was no fade to black. Just a stillness that dragged on.>What exactly was happening here?>Martlet let out a sigh. At least that what Clover believed she did. He couldn't really tell. His vision was blurred, all senses stopped functioning properly.>Her mouth was moving. Was she saying something to him? Did it really matter in this situation?>Clover just wished she'd get it over with. What good would words do now? Clover couldn't make sense of anything.>Clover didn't react to anything, he just waited. And waited. And waited, with a dead emotionless expression on his face.>So used to a pattern that he never noticed...that gradual feeling of confinement.>It felt small at first, but the feeling got stronger by the second. It didn't feel like death. No it felt more like...>That's when Clover snapped into reality. That's when he saw Martlet doing something completely unexpected.>His soul. His being. The object that had been destroyed so many times by her, was being drawn into her body.>She was...taking in his soul? Why? Why was she doing that? Why wasn't she killing him? Why wasn't she behaving like the other times?>Clover couldn't make sense of it. Was this some kind of mercy? Why was she showing him mercy? Especially now? What changed?
>>3925879>He was to weak to back fight against what she was doing. In the state he was in now, he couldn't stop what was happening.>Even if he resisted from within her, his soul would still be confined within her body. And what then?>Clover didn't like this. This sudden change of the norm. This unexpected outcome being thrust upon him.>Why couldn't things be simple. Why couldn't this just be another fight to the death?>Why did Clover even care? It's not like killing Asgore would bring the fallen humans back.>So many questions Clover didn't want to think about. It was easier that way. So why was he thinking now?>Why was it that he always thought about something when Martlet involved herself with him?>Why couldn't he bring himself to continue fighting her the first time?>Why did he spare her the second time they met?>But the one thing on his mind, the one thing that strangely made this bearable. Something which he couldn't quite comprehend.>Why did it feel like he was being embraced?
>>3925420Another win for heterosexuality
>>3925893Big Toby doesn't want you to see the poll results
>>3925895The same "Big Toby" writing a game about a boy and his purple dragon girlfriend fighting a preordained fate written out for them with extremely romantic undertones?
>>3925896Toby's brain turns off when he sees lesbians
>>3925898No, tumblrites brain turn off when they see potential lesbiums and they project this onto tobor
>>3925899Anon, careful with that copium, you might end up taking a lethal dose of it when your fantasies get destroyed by Toby "Yurislopper" Fox
>>3925900You sure you didn't get lost? These kinds of posts seem more like the kind deliberately trying to be obnoxious in the Deltarune thread on /v/ than something from someone who actually played any of these games.
>>3925901I have no hopes in Toby when it comes to shipping, its just that simple
my cope has been that toby is so lousy at writing romance that if krusie/kriselle was real it would probably fucking suckalso krusie was the main reason I discovered DRY so maybe fate was guiding me to something greater
>>3925877>>3925879>>3925892This was a good read. Your use of short sentences and lots of questions stood out since they help to show Clover's uneasy shifting thoughts, his despair, and his lack of understanding.I have a question. If a furry is for mammals, and a scalie is for reptiles, what is the term for Avians?
>>3925952>so maybe fate was guiding me to something greatertrust the plan
>>3925955I believe the term for avians is a birdy.I'm just guessing here.
>>3925955Avian is for birds, you had it right.
>>3925892>>3925879>>3925877I enjoyed this, I had my own ideas of how the interactions in their minds would go but this has me wanting to see where you'll take it.
Anon here who posted the greentext wip>>3925955Glad you enjoyed the read. One of the main things I was trying to do was explore Clover's mindset in all this.Especially when something different occurs from a pattern that's happened so many times, it's almost routine for Clover.When I was writing this, and taking the whole concept and idea regarding Zenith Martlet and Clover, I did always wonder, what would be going through his mind, when he's essentially on autopilot through hundreds of deaths and resets, but something snaps him out of it.>>3925970You should absolutely share your own ideas and write them into a story to. I say the more the merrier.This is just my ideas taking form. Whatever sorts of interactions and directions you had in mind, translate them into story just like me.The more fics/story based on the Martlet's drawings, the better I say,
>>3925972>You should absolutely share your own ideas and write them into a story to. I say the more the merrier.I definitely want to, but I've got other stuff I want to write first and I'm even behind on my own plans from being miserably sick all week. Getting to see your take on it in the meanwhile was nice
I'm kinda surprised my Martlet lactation drawing is doing so much better than the Ceroba one on esix, I figured it'd be the other way around.
>>3925900Hey nigger, take your griping elsewhere.
>>3926026Don't get me wrong, both of them are good, but the expression on the Martlet image is really cute.
>>3926028what would be each UTY character's stance on the n word?
>>3926031"why do I need a word for all the different flavors, they're still Ningen.
>>3926032Hey buddy, you dropped your '"'.
>>3925328Momroba unbirthing https://files.catbox.moe/82ixqi.jpg
>>3926033the moment I hit post I could feel that someone was going to say that.
>>3926029Hm, yeah, I guess I still need more practice drawing typical furry heads and facial expressions.
>>3926036Well if you're not taking it back, I'm keeping it.It's my '"' now.
>>3926039>typical furry headsI'd prefer if you picked a style that wasn't "typical" because I don't like generic furry art. I think if Ceroba looked distinctively different from that style, yet largely faithful to her UTY appearance, that would be perfect.
>>3926041I'm just talking about the geometry of it all here, I don't think I could emulate a specific style if I tried.I had my first breakthrough with furry heads when I drew Chujin a while back, and I still think that head looks decent, but for whatever reason Ceroba just never looks right to me, but almost never in a way I can actually articulate, just some indescribable wrongness.
>>3926043Maybe its the snouts being too long/thin?
>>3926050It definitely has something to do with the proportions of the snout relative to the overall head, but I'm not sure how exactly. I usually only ever use in-material or otherwise official sources for references when trying to draw a character, so I've only been going off her talksprites and battlesprites when drawing her, but sometimes I just have to eyeball it whenever I'm drawing her head at an angle that's too dissimilar to her in-game sprites, which is most of the time.
>>3926043while I don't think I'll be looking up the full art of that particular chujin image, comparing that face to the roba one I think I'm grasping a bit of what it is.it's something to do with the way the mouth is framed compared to the cheeks I think, and the way Cerobas expression feels like it is almost a human mouth stretched over a furry frame. on chujins face it looks right (though the crying chujin is dealing me psychological damage as I analzye this) but the mouth ends where "it should" on the side. the roba doesn't look awful or anything, but it feels like it doesn't exist "in relation to her cheeks", and when you think about it, the cheeks are a large part of how the face is framed, even if they are covered up by fur it's probably still relevant here.
>>3926043Looking back at that ceroba pic, I believe you made her snout too tall, if her mouth was open it wouldn't look as "off", but she is just showing her teeth
>>3926058>it's something to do with the way the mouth is framed compared to the cheeks I think, and the way Cerobas expression feels like it is almost a human mouth stretched over a furry frame.That's actually a fascinating insight, I'll have to experiment with applying this when I return to my work, thanks.>though the crying chujin is dealing me psychological damage as I analzye thisAlways love seeing people's reactions to that one, almost never disappoints. Though the best reaction I ever got to that image was [picrel].
>>3926060Oh yeah, that too.
>>3926034I'm looking at this but I don't fully understand what is happening
>>3926061oh that's good, now I have context, enhancing the suffering. Regardless I hope that ends up helping you find the right path. I know there's a lot of ways artists do it with different angular drawing or sometimes just shadows and light areas implying texture (this usually seems to nail it the most but it's all style at the end of the day). Regardless I haven't got an ounce of drawing skill in me so this is just my two cents as an observer.
>>3926065>oh that's good, now I have context, enhancing the suffering. I showed the image to one of my friends (at their request) and while they did really like it, their first response was "have you considered drawing something nice happening to him at any point?". I have to admit, up until they asked, that legitimately had not crossed my mind.>I know there's a lot of ways artists do it with different angular drawing or sometimes just shadows and light areas implying textureI'm still trying to get my bearings when it comes to lighting and shading, that might take a minute. Doesn't help that my monitor is so old that it has some pretty major light bleed which can make it hard to tell what's actually shaded and what's just being affected by the monitor, so I'm almost flying blind when it comes to even the basic shading I've been experimenting with recently.I'll practice more with implying shapes and angles through direct lines if I can, see how that turns out.>Regardless I haven't got an ounce of drawing skill in me so this is just my two cents as an observer.Actually you've been fairly helpful, an outside perspective can be useful for certain things, helps you see things you might not've at first.
>>3926066Good to hear then, and yeah there's no rush on getting things perfect immediately right? each drawing is a learning experience. >I have to admit, up until they asked, that legitimately had not crossed my mind.have you drawn something nice happening to him yet since that was said?
>>3926071>Good to hear then, and yeah there's no rush on getting things perfect immediately right? each drawing is a learning experience. Of course, it takes time, but perfection is attainable with time and dedication.>have you drawn something nice happening to him yet since that was said?No, of course not. I actually had some other plans written down for drawings I wanted to make of him, and they're all some variety of cruel and unusual, and I wrote those down while I was already in the midst of drawing him being sounded by a malfunction Axis for whatever reason. (the reason is that I am evil.)I mean, I'm already into some freaky stuff, but there's something about Chujin in particular that just makes me go way harder than I usually do.Maybe someday I'll draw him experiencing something other than inconceivable suffering, but that day will not come soon.
>>3926076pain, agony even.
>>3926077See, I already knew I wanted to draw Chujin like that, but the idea of Axis being the one doing it was like a eureka moment, it was too good not to follow through on.It occurs to me that I may be slightly sadistic.
>>3926079even traumatizing my boy axis out here.
>>3925328Roba asshttps://files.catbox.moe/fdscfl.png
>>3926080Oh come now, I've seen people draw Chujin doing way worse things to Axis, I just gave Axis the chance for some payback really.
>>3926083I shouldn't be surprised, nearly 20 years on this site and all, but I hadn't considered the thought of chujin doing things to axis either. I'm willing to bet one of these random catboxes is worse than anything mentioned but still, I feel motivated to give them all a happy ending. Maybe for Axis the steamworks gets rebuilt in some manner
>>3926086>I'm willing to bet one of these random catboxes is worse than anything mentioned but stillLike the one just above my previous reply, for instance? I think that's worse than anything we've talked about, certainly worse than anything I'll ever do.>I feel motivated to give them all a happy ending. Maybe for Axis the steamworks gets rebuilt in some mannerOh, don't take my sadistic desires made into illustration as my actual desires for these characters in-universe. I want the various characters to have happy endings (as long as they're adherent to reason and continuity), but sometimes I just need to drag some poor unfortunate soul to the CBT dungeon for a bit.Even then, that's usually just for Chujin, I'm much more reserved with most other characters.
>>3926091my 4chan voodoo instincts told me not to click on that one so I'm glad. I'm going to give chujin a happy ending where he's alive and gets to see the surface and faces his sins, becoming a better person for it, even if he lets a hard "ningen" slip from time to time (because it's just funny to me)
>>3925683Diegetic game mechanics are one of my favorite parts of Undertale. When I'm writing them, I usually think about two particular moments in the game: The Mad Dummy fight's flavor text about stuffing getting all over the dialogue box, and the Froggit's gag about monsters literally using markers to highlight their text. Those are my go-to's for just how omnipresent and normalized the game mechanics are in the world.But I don't stick super hard to "everything is diagetic" which I think is basically how Undertale treats it, most of the time. I don't imagine that everyone is literally /reading/ what's being said to them, or writing it for that matter, but I use those examples as proof of just how far one can go in writing mechanics into the world of UT and still have support from the game's text.I usually ask myself if I have the will and the ability to portray a mechanic well, and consistently, and if it that mechanic won't damage the story. If all of them are true, then I include it. An example of something that I would never attempt is the literal highlighting of words. Can you imagine having to break serious dialogue scenes so somebody can bust out their yellow (or pink) magic marker and start coloring? I can't.
>>3926095>An example of something that I would never attempt is the literal highlighting of words. Can you imagine having to break serious dialogue scenes so somebody can bust out their yellow (or pink) magic marker and start coloring? I can't.yeah I can imagine people doing it and not only making a mess of it, but being "marvel movie" level of self aware about it making it ten times worse. Undertale itself knows when to keep those kind of moments away for genuinely heavy moments fortunately, so that when something happens like a piece of the dialogue screen getting destroyed by asgore happens, its easy to take serious. you've seen silly examples, but it respects the tone its trying to get across, and assuming you're partnersanon, yeah it's the same kind of thing, when you're making note of it, it doesn't clash with the tone. when clover was getting drawn into the battle menu when he wanted to shoot the dummy, and eventually forced his will to be able to shoot down the sights normally, it didn't feel jarring, it could have been written goofy, but it came across like an appropriate "yeah I can see this being something that happened"
>>3926094>faces his sinsYou know, for as much shit as I give him in normal discussion of him, I don't actually think he did much that was actually that wrong.Like, he made some stupid choices, but that largely boiled down to him making some bad robots and getting himself killed, so the actual effects of his dumb choices were mostly contained. And sure, that serum project got out of hand once he gave it over to Ceroba, but that's not quite directly his fault, and he himself explicitly told her not to do what she ended up doing, so that's a bit iffy.Really, things could've gone a lot better for him if he decided to publicly present the integrity soul to Asgore along with his new Axis model, since making a machine that could reliably kill a human would've single-handedly restored his reputation in the eyes of the underground, and potentially could've put Asgore in a position where he'd be forced to recognize Chujin as the one responsible for bringing down the human behind the Snowdin incident, which Chujin could've potentially leveraged to get his hands on actual resources to continue his work with.
>>3926097The experiments are pretty bad if the soul was aware, and considering "it" rejected him it gives some credence to that. Even if you want to say those sins are justifiable, they were still a terrible thing he should face and come to terms with. Doing something cruel, even if you deem it necessary doesn't not remove the weight from the actions.I also heard someone claim that dalv actually attacked integrity before she attacked them but I haven't found a source for that.
>>3926098>The experiments are pretty bad if the soul was aware, and considering "it" rejected him it gives some credence to that.Maybe, but I'm still pretty sure that all Chujin did to "infuse" the soul with his own was with that same sort of extracted substance that was eventually injected into Kanako, so it's not like he was going all Flowey on it. Also, the integrity human killed a bunch of people, so what goes around comes around, you keep what you kill.It's not like Chujin was performing Unit 738 style experiments on a living child for no reason, he was performing experiments with a dead murderer's soul for the good of an entire race, and I assume he wasn't going out of his way to be needlessly cruel while he was at it.>I also heard someone claim that dalv actually attacked integrity before she attacked them but I haven't found a source for that.I don't think I've ever heard that idea before, definitely not from the game itself, but that seems wildly out of character for Dalv so I think that's wrong.
>>3926099>dead murderer's soul for the good of an entire raceDead child's soul. Omelas type shit.
>>3926099>Maybe, but I'm still pretty sure that all Chujin did to "infuse" the soul with his own was with that same sort of extracted substance that was eventually injected into Kanako, so it's not like he was going all Flowey on it.it's left vague in how he worded things, it's very easy to interpret either way. if he was just drawing soul juice from the soul giving her a little pinch occasionally that's not that bad, but at the very least the music, the framing and all that around the situation is definitely given a certain heaviness to it. it's very possible that he was indeed trying to fuse souls completely.>Also, the integrity human killed a bunch of people, so what goes around comes around, you keep what you kill.there's a limit to that when the beings you killed attack you first. maybe she earned her death, but she did not earn meta flowey style torment, and the exact nature of chujins experiments is left in the dark. We do know he was on a downward spiral though>and I assume he wasn't going out of his way to be needlessly cruel while he was at it.I wholeheartedly believe he's good at heart, but he was on said downward spiral while under the belief that it was the only way. Even if someone is deserving of death or punishment, it should be carried out in the most humane way possible, Executioners should sharpen their blade to give mercy to sinners, anything other than that sullies their own soul, even if the goal was noble.
>>3926101>Dead child's soul. Omelas type shit.Oh god, is it time for this argument again?I don't care how fucking old they were, or if they were traumatized, or whatever other shit we feel like throwing in here for the sake of argument, multiple people died by their hands for no reason, they're a murderer, end of story.The kid in Omelas is just some random innocent kid who did nothing to deserve what happens to them, that's a completely different situation.
>>3926101>Omelas First time hearing about that, that sounds like the type of shit that should be required reading.
>>3926102>it's very possible that he was indeed trying to fuse souls completely.It's not literally impossible that that's the case, but I highly doubt it based on in-universe evidence.Namely in the sense that we don't actually have any hard evidence that a normal soul can resist the process of being absorbed initially, since we only ever see the human souls in UT reject Flowey *after* they've already been absorbed, not during the initial process. Flowey himself even says in repeated neutral runs that he doesn't bother fighting you with the souls since he knows they'll just rebel against him again, but that doesn't stop him from absorbing them after Asgore's dead, so it's possible that actually resisting being absorbed is extremely difficult or flat-out impossible, but resisting after the fact is possible. Either way, I think Chujin's stated plans for the serum as he laid it out in those tapes makes it seem like his intent was to merely inject part of the soul's essence into his own, then extract the resulting mixture, in a similar process to what would eventually end up being attempted with Kanako.>there's a limit to that when the beings you killed attack you first.Yes, but we don't know that for a fact, and IIRC we hear in-game that she did apparently strike Snowdin out of nowhere at one point, so there is some evidence that she was just attacking without provocation, making her the offending party.>Even if someone is deserving of death or punishment, it should be carried out in the most humane way possibleThey were already dead, I feel like there wasn't a whole lot that could be done to make the experimentation process easier at that point. Maybe it sucks that they potentially experienced unnecessary suffering, but unless you wanted Chujin to just shatter the soul and be done with it, that was par for the course.Of course, we don't actually know for a fact that the soul even really experiences much of anything by itself, but that's besides the point.
>>3926104Also I could be wrong, but the thing about Omelas was that it specifically HAD to be an innocent kid.
>>3926110You are correct, that was the whole point about the story.I mean, kinda, interpretations of the story go all sorts of ways, with my own interpretation being that the point of the story is that people have a hard time imagining a better world without some kind of catch, so the person telling you about the city in the story (because the story is told like it's a person describing the city to you like it's a thought experiment or something) adds in the part about the kid to make the idea more "believable", and that the point isn't *actually* that the kid's suffering is a real necessary evil because that would be stupid.But yes, the difference between the integrity soul's situation and Omelas is that the integrity soul was very definitely not an innocent party, at least not entirely.
>>3926107>Yes, but we don't know that for a fact, and IIRC we hear in-game that she did apparently strike Snowdin out of nowhere at one point, so there is some evidence that she was just attacking without provocation, making her the offending party.we have 2 games that shows that monsters initiate almost every single battle, but despite that, and despite the kinks in yellows writing, I think it was intentionally going for an angle where we are hearing the monsters viewpoint on what happened, and never get an objective angle on whether integrity was really the psychopath they believed.>it seem like his intent was to merely inject part of the soul's essence into his own,that is my preferred interpretation, but his exact wording in the secret tape I think again is supposed to be an "it could be either way" thing. For all of Yellows flaws and virtues, I think it was intentionally trying to get you to ask "what the fuck was actually going on before we got here">They were already deadthat's irrelevant if the soul is experiencing things which according to the devs, they seem to believe so.the executioner thing is being used as an expression, when you're responsible for another life, it's important to handle it with a baseline of dignity even if they deserve worse. causing suffering has an impact on yourself. it's entirely possible that Chujin was just drawing a bit of soul juice out and the soul was completely unaware, its also possible that integrity was fighting for her life against beings that can't understand the concept of mercy herself, when she got blown apart, and had to fight for X time for the very existence of her soul. yellow seems to make it vague, but the atmosphere around it makes me think that it's something Chujin would have to face if he got another chance at life. if he was on the surface, no war happened, all of his greatest fears unrealized, he'd take a long hard look at himself
>>3926114>we have 2 games that shows that monsters initiate almost every single battleYes, but we do also know that monsters can sometimes use their magic attacks as a form of social interaction, and flavor text implies that a lot of monsters aren't even really "hostile" per se, and their attacks are just a byproduct of their presence and not necessarily an indication of killing intent. For example, monsters will keep taking attack turns even once you've met their spare requirements, and some monsters verbally refer to their attacks as being unintentional or otherwise not intended to actually hurt you.>that's irrelevant if the soul is experiencing things which according to the devs, they seem to believe so.Maybe so, but we see a bit of how Clover experiences things as a soul after their soul gets jarred, and their perception of time seems to jump pretty quickly from being given to Asgore to the moment they help Frisk out in the Omega Flowey fight, so maybe the soul's perception is vastly reduced, like that argument for how the conscious mind experiences death in the real world. "If you don't remember the time before you existed, you won't remember the time after you exist". Make of this idea what you will.>if he was on the surface, no war happened, all of his greatest fears unrealized, he'd take a long hard look at himselfMaybe, maybe. Given his attitude on things as we see in-game, and everything he went through, I don't think he'd be too broken up about it, especially if the integrity soul got revived also, but the people they killed didn't. I don't think Chujin would be the kind of person to go "Oh my god, I inflicted suffering on an innocent child who killed a dozen people, what have I done?!", I think he'd be more like "That was unfortunate, but I think it's more than fair given what monsterkind has suffered at the hands of you and your people.".Alright, let's stop before this really turns into the redemption argument again, I have things to do today.
My friend told me that the opening to my story (the Anon x Martlet one) feels like a Cormack McCarthy novel. I found that hilarious because I've never read a Cormack McCarthy novel but I've wanted to for a while. I came up with that opening last-minute after doing some reformatting.>>3926079>I may be slightly sadisticI've learned not to judge people by the art they draw (unless if they feature real people or other warning signs that you know when you see them). There are kind people who draw messed up art and there are nasty people who draw cute art. Pic related.That said, I wish there was more art about Chujin addressing his flaws without necessarily being tortured.
>>3926117>That said, I wish there was more art about Chujin addressing his flaws without necessarily being tortured.I know this absolutely isn't what you meant, but I do like the implication that the monstrosity I created somehow constitutes addressing his flaws *while* torturing him.Cognitive behavioral torture, cock and ball therapy, they're both the same acronym at the end of the day.>There are kind people who draw messed up artIn my own defense, I've been told that some of the art I've done has also been cute, so I can occupy both ends of this spectrum.
>>3926116I'm not trying to make this the redemption argument and I'm quite certain theres 3-5 people engaged in the discussion this time. this is about the weight a persons actions have on themselves. We don't have to continue the discussion, but I think chujins own actions would weigh on his conscience because he doesn't strike me as a "fairs fair you dug your grave" kind of person, but as a desperate father.". I don't know if you're the same person, but the whole "live in the dark so they can live in the light thing" can still burden the heart of the person doing it, and Chujin is someone who I personally believe, if he was given a happy ending on the surface, and given enough reason to believe that humans weren't the evil he always believed, the scared father would take over more than his pragmatic scientist side, because that scientist side was driven by the father side of his personality.there are definitely characters out there that could look at things as "well you get what you get" but despite Chujins front facing appearance, I think he had too big of a heart to feel that way to his core. It's more like his fear for his family pushed him to act in a way that was against his personal feelings. Isn't that what the fight in the dark thing is about? going against your own desires for a greater good? if he found that greater good he was chasing to be incorrect, he'd have some self reflecting he'd do.
>>3926096>assuming you're partnersanonYep, it's me (hello).I'm glad that the FIGHT aiming vs. manual aiming worked out. I was sorely tempted to just let it slide by at the time because I thought it was a tad clunky, but I decided to bite the bullet (ha) and write it out even if it was, because I wanted that consistency. It was the same for when Martlet and Ceroba were fighting in chapter 13; I had to work around the FIGHT interface to make sure Ceroba couldn't just go into her item menu and smash Clover's SOUL at her leisure during her turn.
>>3926107>I think Chujin's stated plans for the serum as he laid it out in those tapes makes it seem like his intent was to merely inject part of the soul's essenceChujin made it very clear what his intention was. The objective and the goal was to fuse a human soul with a boss monster soul. That absolutely had to happen. The plan quite literally needed that to happen.There was absolutely no misinterpretation on that front. That was quite literally what he wanted to do. Everything he was doing hinged on that happening successfully.Now what Chujin was doing to Integrity's soul can be interpreted in a number of ways. But the atmosphere, the ominous music, and that dark messed stuff surrounding Integrity's soul in general, make it very clear whatever Chujin had planned for her soul wasn't good, and whatever he was doing, was likely crossing lines.I highly doubt Chujin was simply just extracting some small soul essence from Integrity's soul. He was definitely doing a lot more to it, especially considering he kept it for himself for years, and had hid he had it from the Underground.If his whole plan could only work if a boss monster soul fused with a human soul, and he himself was the one stating as such, then it's very likely he tried to fuse Integrity's soul to his own. And considering he had the soul in his possession for years, it's very likely he absolutely tried to do that.I remember another anon summarised it perfectly. Chujin was messing with something he didn't fully comprehend. He never truly grasped just how powerful a human soul was, or what kind of effect it could have on him when he started trying to make his plan come into fruition.
>>3926125>I don't know if you're the same person, but the whole "live in the dark so they can live in the light thing"What, do I have a damn bell on me or something, how do you people keep finding me like this?>given enough reason to believe that humans weren't the evil he always believed, the scared father would take over more than his pragmatic scientist side, because that scientist side was driven by the father side of his personality.See, I think that's a bit of a misreading of Chujin's character, but not one I can fault you for given how common it is. Chujin in-game doesn't actually seem to view humanity as being "evil" necessarily, just that they're dangerous and monsterkind is woefully underequipped to actually handle them both in the underground and potentially once the barrier falls. It's like how Handplates! Gaster sees humans, not with any actual malice, but with extreme caution given his knowledge and experience with humanity, which in the UT universe is pretty justified.Based on this, I think Chujin would see his actions as being justified even if no second war came to pass, and I certainly don't think he'd be all that hard on himself even if he was directly faced with the revived human he experimented on. Maybe he'd apologize to them for what he put them through, but I don't think he'd seriously regret what he did, other than in how his project eventually led to what happened to Kanako.>Isn't that what the fight in the dark thing is about? going against your own desires for a greater good?Eh, depends on the situation. Ask the Foundation of universe 5000, and sometimes the more important thing is fighting in the light so the world can "die in the dark", as it were. >if he found that greater good he was chasing to be incorrect, he'd have some self reflecting he'd do.I dunno, I think his overall ideal still has merit, even if no second war breaks out. Monsterkind needs a balancing patch, humans are pretty damned OP in the UT universe.
>>3926129>Chujin made it very clear what his intention was. The objective and the goal was to fuse a human soul with a boss monster soul. That absolutely had to happen. The plan quite literally needed that to happen.Care to explain what's up with the syringes then?Pretty sure his plan was to infuse his soul with the essence of the human soul so he could extract the necessary mixture after the fact, not to absorb the entire human soul, since again, no in-universe evidence that a soul can actually resist the initial process of absorption, as evidenced in the original game with the six human souls.>But the atmosphere, the ominous music, and that dark messed stuff surrounding Integrity's soul in general, make it very clear whatever Chujin had planned for her soul wasn't good, and whatever he was doing, was likely crossing lines.The music and atmosphere is like that because you're uncovering a conspiracy hidden in a dark basement relating to how one of the main characters just tried to trick you so they could take your soul for their own purposes, not because Chujin was going all Shiro Ishii on the integrity soul down there.Really, what exactly do you think he was doing down there? Goes down there every day when Ceroba thinks he's going out for the day, tries to shove the soul up his vagina, fails, then says "Oh well, better luck next time!" and tries again literally the next day until he eventually gets soul cancer?That makes no fucking sense, the obvious answer is that he spent time analyzing the soul while working on his method for extracting it's essence, until he eventually injected himself with it once it was isolated, and then the rest was history.
>>3926131>Eh, depends on the situation. Ask the Foundation of universe 5000, and sometimes the more important thing is fighting in the light so the world can "die in the dark", as it were.how do I put this, SCP 5000 is the best written dogshit scp i've ever seen. it's really well put together, but it by the authors own admission depends far too heavily on "bro you just have to imagine that whatever the thing the foundation was fighting was objectively worse than the alternative". the thing about "not showing the monster makes it scarier" is you're supposed to give the audience just enough information so that their own imaginations go wild. SCP 5000 does that with everything except for the most important thing and leans on "The bad guys won by the way, just assume it's that bad!". Again, this is taking the authors own words into account. it would have been actually a lot better if he didn't just outright tell us that the bad guys won and let people go wild with their imagination on that aspect instead. >What, do I have a damn bell on me or something, how do you people keep finding me like this?I promise it's not /vg/ level schizo "I know your writing patterns" shit. You just brought up the redemption argument, and someone with a pragmatic bent in that conversation brought up that expression so I took a shot in the, not quite dark.
I wonder what it would be like if we showed some of the fan game stuff to someone outside of 4chan, you know, developers being okay with it, but who could it be shown to?
>>3926131>I dunno, I think his overall ideal still has merit, even if no second war breaks out. Monsterkind needs a balancing patch, humans are pretty damned OP in the UT universeit's not really about the ideal (which admittedly has some merit in that humans have too much power over monsters) but the man behind the ideal. A man can come to the right conclusion, for the right or wrong reasons regardless, and commit to them, but the deeds go against his very core self. who chujin is as a person, and what he decides he has to do can be completely different things, and I think thats an important part of this.Also, when I talk about sins, I'm not a particularly religious person, but I still use the expression, I feel its something that, even if it was the right thing to do, can still be a sin. Killing someone to protect another can be the right thing to do, but killing them still has an impact on you. I think Chujin, before anything else in his soul, is a father, even before he is a husband I think he's a father. and he was willing to do whatever it took because of that, even if it meant doing the opposite of what a father would want to do.
>>3926136Which fangame? Naranja?DRY already has a reddit for it which people there still don't know the origins of it (and that's a good thing)
>>3926134> it's really well put together, but it by the authors own admission depends far too heavily on "bro you just have to imagine that whatever the thing the foundation was fighting was objectively worse than the alternative".They do show you the alternative, it's in the story linked to in the red "disgusting" text in that one interrogation bit.I would advise that you read it at your own discretion however, I don't like thinking about it.Not that that stops it from occupying my head as much as it does, or from giving me extremely vivid nightmares that make me wake up in actual pain somehow.>You just brought up the redemption argument, and someone with a pragmatic bent in that conversation brought up that expression so I took a shot in the, not quite dark.Ah, so I assume you're not the guy I had been arguing with in that particular argument then? Because that would be funny, I admit.Honestly, I think it's really funny how frequently I get into these sorts of arguments about right and wrong and justice and whatnot, given the sorts of scenarios I would be totally fine with having happen in real life.I have spent a concerning amount of time lamenting both the fact that the technology in the Tron universe isn't real and the fact that CLU lost, I would give so much to live in a world where he escape the grid, you have no idea.
>>3926138Naranja, oldentale, whatever.
>>3926137>even if it meant doing the opposite of what a father would want to do.I don't feel like killing a dangerous individual is necessarily something that runs counter to the idea of being a good parent.Like, killing someone can be a nasty thing to have to go through with, but I don't feel like it's mutually exclusive with the sort of feelings one would have as a parent.Based on how Chujin talks about his work and his views on mankind, I just think his reaction to seeing that his concerns were potentially unwarranted wouldn't be the deep introspection you think it'd be, since he only carried out his actions because of a slaughter that did very much happen, so it's not like he's unjustified even if a second war never came to pass.
>>3926142>I don't feel like killing a dangerous individual is necessarily something that runs counter to the idea of being a good parent.it doesn't run counter to the idea but the feelings. these things are importantly seperated. A necessary evil is still that, and each person ingests those differently. I know the fact that integrity was a child isn't important to some. But I think even if the child was evil, which we truly don't know, killing a child would weigh on his soul. there are people that can do the necessary deeds without batting an eye, but I think chujin wasn't one of them, he was probably forcing himself through the parts he didn't like. after all, his original orders WERE to apprehend. Why didn't he announce that it was his robot that did it? many people would have cheered him on, even if he hid the soul for years after, he would have been a savior to many. I think those images of him trying to wash the blood off his hands , are very much so "chujin"
>>3926141I think only Naranja really has any content that might caught the eyes of anyone from out of here since it actually has a demo, the rest are still too barebones and would just be lumped with the rest of the hundreds of projects on gamejolt that just had 2 posts before fizzling out. No offence to the devs here.
>>3926143>Why didn't he announce that it was his robot that did it?I know what you're going for here, but the real answer is "because then the plot doesn't happen".I think the reason he kept everything under wraps the way he did is because withholding a human soul for as long as he was was probably some kind of treason, and once he had made a certain amount of headway into his work he probably figured he just couldn't really back out, not necessarily because what he was doing was all that heinous. I don't even think Chujin really realizes the soul may have been aware while he was experimenting on it. He noted that it was rejecting him, but without actually being able to communicate with the soul in any way, this could've been seen as just a natural response from the soul, akin to a human's immune system responding after being given a vaccine, not like a conscious response on the soul's part.Put it like this, do you think Alphys has any serious regrets about using the DT extractor to acquire some of the DT she used in her experiments? Not about what actually happened as a result of her experiments, *specifically* the part where she extracted DT samples from one of the human souls.I think the way most people in the underground talk about the souls indicates that most of them don't even really see them as being conscious entities in their own right, most monsters talk about them like they're just another resource, albeit a potentially temperamental one.Given the circumstances of what went down with Chujin and the integrity soul, I don't think he'd be all that broken up about it having occasionally experienced some minor pain while he experimented with it, especially after the human attacked Snowdin, and nearly harmed his own daughter as well.
>>3926146>I know what you're going for here, but the real answer is "because then the plot doesn't happen".I don't think it's really fair to assert this, and then pose your own reasoning for his actions. I'm not even saying your justification is bad or wrong, but "because the plot" doesn't really dispel my angle here. >but without actually being able to communicate with the soul in any waybut there is that ominous statement he makes "I think I know why">Put it like this, do you think Alphys has any serious regrets about using the DT extractor to acquire some of the DT she used in her experiments? honestly yes but, and Im sorry I dont mean this one as a cop out, I think because she has such low self esteem that she probably beats herself up over pretty much everything. I think Chujin is a more principled person than she is at the very least.I think the way he actually acts in what we see of him shows that he is broken up. the phrasing of how he talks in the log sounds like he's a little fucked up over what happened. Chujin really strikes me as someone that's putting on a brave face but "wants to be literally anywhere but here right now"
>>3926138>DRY already has a reddit for it which people there still don't know the origins of it (and that's a good thing)...what will happen once they discover that the /vrpg/ thread exists?
>>3925899Toby is a tumblrite. I'm not saying Krusie isn't going to happen, just that Toby really likes faggotry and dykery.
>>3926152Toby was like that before tumblr was even a thing. It's a little off base to call him a tubmlrite like how calling Mega man X a reploid isn't quite right.
>>3926149>I'm not even saying your justification is bad or wrong, but "because the plot" doesn't really dispel my angle here. Okay, maybe it was unfair to whip it out like that, but upon rewatching the tapes, I really don't get the idea that he was that broken up about anything he was doing. Sure, he sounded a little more shaky in the secret tape, but that's because he just watched a child (potentially) get their fucking head blown off in an instant, that would mess up literally anybody.At risk of making an extremely crass comparison here, have you ever heard of "The Holocaust of bullets"? It was part of the German Reich's extermination campaign against people they deemed "undesirables", specifically in it's early phase. During this phase, they would purge people directly at gunpoint, rather than the much less personal methods employed at their various camps. The reason why the Reich made the switch from firing squads to gas chambers wasn't just out of mere efficiency, it was also due to the fact that the Reich had numerous cases where the actual act of killing people in such a personal way broke the killers mentally, causing them to be unable to continue their efforts. It wasn't because they felt bad for the people they had killed, or because they had suddenly grown a damn conscious, but because the mere act of personally killing someone is a very scarring thing. In comparison, pressing a button is easy, you don't even have to witness the consequences of your actions, you can just walk away.That's what I think happened with Chujin. He even says as much in the secret tape, that his feelings were moreso caused by the actual scene he saw where Axis had killed the human, rather than the deeper context of what had actually happened there. He even says that while he considers what Axis did to be "excessive", he still considers it an astounding display of his capabilities.
>>3926149>but "because the plot" doesn't really dispel my angle here. Also, for the record, Chujin literally comments on why he doesn't go public with the human soul and Axis, and it's because he immediately starts thinking of possible uses for it by himself.He comments on the soul's power and potential uses before he says he won't be turning it over to Asgore straight away, so yes, we do know why he kept it to himself, so your argument is actually just wrong according to the dialogue in the game itself. This isn't an instance where I have to accept your interpretation of events as to why certain things happened, even my interpretation I said earlier is wrong, the game says why he did what he did.
>>3926154>At risk of making an extremely crass comparison here, have you ever heard of "The Holocaust of bullets"? It was part of the German Reich's extermination campaign against people they deemed "undesirables", specifically in it's early phase. During this phase, they would purge people directly at gunpoint, rather than the much less personal methods employed at their various camps. The reason why the Reich made the switch from firing squads to gas chambers wasn't just out of mere efficiency, it was also due to the fact that the Reich had numerous cases where the actual act of killing people in such a personal way broke the killers mentally, causing them to be unable to continue their efforts. It wasn't because they felt bad for the people they had killed, or because they had suddenly grown a damn conscious, but because the mere act of personally killing someone is a very scarring thing. In comparison, pressing a button is easy, you don't even have to witness the consequences of your actions, you can just walk away.I'll meet in the middle and say thats fair, because I was talking earlier about how the sin can impact the sinner even if they think its the right thing to do, but looking at the tapes myself, I see a man who's doing a lot of justifying, and I feel like you don't need to justify yourself as hard as he was unless you're feeling guilt. And yeah you're right on what he says about his capabilities, but I'm not sure on the whole treason reason for him not going public down the line. I think he'd be smart enough to know that showing up with a soul in hand and the weapon that earned it would get him clemency and more in an instant. I still can't see him as anything but denying to himself that he's upset over killing a child even if it was his enemy, and to be fair many people have that thought. Lets take the child part out of the equation, I don't think he has it in him to be a cold hard killer, so killing anyone at all leaves guilt in him.
>>3926156>and it's because he immediately starts thinking of possible uses for it by himself.I'm talking about when he eventually gives up the soul but does it secretly. why does he decide to place the soul in waterfall for someone to find instead of showing the shining hope that is axis, the thing that actually managed to kill a human. the treason angle doesn't really make sense to me here.
>>3926158to add to that, he's big on legacy, I think the legacy of "I built a machine that killed a human" is more powerful than "I hit the soul for a while to try and make use of it, and you know I'm the one that made the human killing machine so It makes sense". after all, asgore seemed so thrilled with alphys' fake that he made her royal scientist. the treason angle seems just a bit too farfetched
>>3926158>I'm talking about when he eventually gives up the soul but does it secretly.We hear in the secret tape that there was apparently some kind of property damage involved during the human's termination, and he says he doesn't want that coming back to him.That, and given that he wants to keep his project a secret, I imagine he doesn't want to be associated with the human soul's acquisition since the fact that it took him so long to turn it in would pretty naturally lead to questions, such as "What were you doing with this soul for so long before handing it over?", which he obviously wouldn't want to have to answer, and especially not to Asgore of all people, given the history the two have.
>>3925952Kriselle is real and its fucking kino.
>>3926160I'll give you that, I missed that line. But I will say it's a silly thing to write in logically. The monsters viewed the human as a terrifying mass murderer that couldn't be stopped. again I'm conceding that he does say that, but it makes no actual sense. if someone killed 40 people and it took blowing up a whole ass house to get them, I don't think the person responsible for finally putting them down would be held to that. but I digress, you're right for whatever insane reason, someone who was essentially a hero was indeed afraid of the property damage. To be fair thats still not "because the plot demanded it", Chujin is just an odd duck apparently.I don't think that dispels the idea that he's got issues with the killing itself though, I don't think he's got the cold hard nuts of steel to not be haunted by a killing even if its justified. People have nightmares over stuff like that even if the act was fully justified.
>>3926157>I see a man who's doing a lot of justifyingNot really? He says "This outcome was earned, was it not?", pauses for a sec, and then goes straight into talking about the potential of the human soul and Axis' capabilities, he doesn't really spend too much time actually talking about the human's death at all in the tape, and even when he is talking about it, he's focused entirely on the actual things he saw having an effect on him, not the fact that he's responsible for the death of a child.>I still can't see him as anything but denying to himself that he's upset over killing a child even if it was his enemy, and to be fair many people have that thought. Lets take the child part out of the equation, I don't think he has it in him to be a cold hard killer, so killing anyone at all leaves guilt in him.That's a fine interpretation and all, but my point is that it's not one supported by anything in those tapes. Going exclusively off of what we actually see of Chujin in UTY, he barely seems to harbor any regret or remorse for what happened to the integrity human, if he feels anything in particular towards them at all. As for the "I think I know why" line about the soul not cooperating with him, while the game itself never elaborates on this, I think the most likely explanation is that the soul might have some idea that Chujin is the one responsible for it's death and is therefore resisting him on principle, or alternatively my earlier "immune system" explanation of it not being a conscious response on the soul's part.
Question for the birdfags and artfags here, how would you Undertale-ify a shoebill? This can be a general characterization or story question if you want it to be but what I really need input with is art and design. Still all answers are appreciated.
>>3926164>"This outcome was earned, was it not?that's definite justifying. he's telling himself that more than anything, and the pause is I think for emphasis on that itself. incidentally I just went to go pull up the tape logs again, and started reading a link before realizing it was a "undertale yellow x onepiece crossover". Goodness the things people get up to in their free time.
>>3926166make him a joke npc monster with a shoe for a bill
>>3926163>again I'm conceding that he does say that, but it makes no actual sense.That's kinda why I said "because plot". Like, yes, that is a stupid thing for him to want to keep this all under wraps for if that was indeed one of the big reasons as to why (though I personally think that one is second to the other reason I mentioned), but the reason he says that is because plot.Like, if that reason really is why he kept everything so hush-hush when handing over the soul, that's just a weak way of masking the fact that it's just something that needed to happen for the sake of the rest of the plot.>I don't think that dispels the idea that he's got issues with the killing itself though, I don't think he's got the cold hard nuts of steel to not be haunted by a killing even if its justified. People have nightmares over stuff like that even if the act was fully justified.Yes, that's kinda what I'm saying. The *killing* is something we see getting to him in-game, but that's it, just the actual act itself, not who he killed, whether or not they truly deserved it, none of that. He's scarred by the killing itself because he found the human blown to pieces by his robot, not because he's actually conflicted on the event itself.
>>3926166I don't know enough about shoebills to answer that. I will now look up videos of shoebill behavior
>>3926170>He's scarred by the killing itself because he found the human blown to pieces by his robot, not because he's actually conflicted on the event itself.but that ties in, he's a father walking up on the corpse of a blown apart child. Even if just moments ago that thing was your worst enemy, fathers are known to be shaken by stuff like this. you ever hear a father talk about seeing a body of a child and for a moment seeing their own, or just their instincts fucking with them on the matter in general?I think it's like that for Asgore as well, his self hatred amplified because it's children and he's too afraid to tell his people nevermind (because despite all talk of the greater good, Asgore I think would be perfectly fine staying underground if there was just some hope laying around).
>>3926170>Like, if that reason really is why he kept everything so hush-hush when handing over the soul, that's just a weak way of masking the fact that it's just something that needed to happen for the sake of the rest of the plot.yeah, I hate it but fair, it's fucking stupid and I think is probably one of those artifacts of "this game was written by kids" situations, but its there nonetheless. it makes me think of a kid saying something like "what are adults afraid of... taxes right?"I probably skimmed past it mentally when reading because it's just an absurd moment.
>>3926168>that's definite justifying. he's telling himself that more than anything, and the pause is I think for emphasis on that itself.Yes, but it's just the one instance of it, you said Chujin was a man "doing a lot of justifying" to himself over what happened, when in actuality he spends very little time talking about what happened at all, focusing more on the opportunity presented by the human soul and his plans for it.Basically, going off of the tapes, Chujin's perspective on the whole situation seems to be that he mostly just regrets having to see the aftermath of the human and Axis' encounter, but doesn't seem to care too much about what actually happened.Alternatively, think of it this way, what if Axis had actually done what he was told to do, and apprehended the human alive?Do you think Chujin simply wouldn't turn them over to the royal guard after what they had done? Because that's a guaranteed death sentence right there, no way they get out of that after all the people they killed.Do you really think Chujin would've let them go instead, free as a bird to strike again another day, even after nearly harming his daughter and killing several others?
>>3925877>>3925879>>3925892I have to say, this was a well written piece, you clearly put a lot of work and thought into it, when translating my Zenith Martlet and Clover images into this writing wip.I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more of this, and when you eventually post the first chapter. Count me in, I'm all for seeing this being developed.That goes for any other anons making similar fics to. You have my support!
>>3926150Why do you care, retarded autist?>>3926153they're a dipshit mikefag or some other breed of retard that popped into this thread to seethe uncontrollably about how toby personally wronged him. Happens all the time, even in /trash/.
>>3926173>you ever hear a father talk about seeing a body of a child and for a moment seeing their own, or just their instincts fucking with them on the matter in general?Sure, but that's just not what we see happening in-game. Like, yes, logically that is something that would happen in such a scenario, but that's not what happened here.Really, I think this actually ties in rather well with the conclusion of Chujin's story and how people view his legacy at the end of the pacifist route, when Martlet literally says that Chujin should be remembered for the good he did around the underground, and not the weird shit he was getting up to in his basement with children.Maybe that's not the best way of putting that.>I think it's like that for Asgore as wellOh yeah, Asgore's feels remorse 100%, but the difference is that we actually see in-game instances of Asgore being sorry about what he did, whereas Chujin's reaction is a slightly more verbose "Oh no! Anyway-".
>>3926175hold on I'm trying to find the full logs other than the secret tape but Im not joking I'm getting nothing but results for that one piece thing what the fuck is going on here. I don't even watch/read one piece.I was pretty sure he said some other things that I took as justifying. that said >Do you think Chujin simply wouldn't turn them over to the royal guard after what they had done? Because that's a guaranteed death sentence right there, no way they get out of that after all the people they killed.no I actually don't think he'd do that. I'm not going to bullshit you and say that I do. my true answer is that he probably wasn't thinking that far in the moment. if it came down to it I think he'd probably hand them over, and have a much lesser guilt creeping in based on the kind of personality he shows. nights where he admits to the roba that "it was just a child, how could a child be like that". he'd do what he had to do, but there would be a part of him deep down that felt unsettled by the memory of watching a child go off to an execution. no matter how deserved I think it would still get in his head.>Do you really think Chujin would've let them go instead, free as a bird to strike again another day, even after nearly harming his daughter and killing several others?absolutely not. like I said, Im not trying to bullshit you here. my core point is that I think he's not a cold pragmatic. the impression I get from what he's said which, I was reading through but can't find the damn pacifist route logs for some reason again, is that he's the type of person who would be haunted by necessary deeds. Even if I'm wrong about there being more lines, and Ill concede to that if I can't find anything to make my case on, that one line is him telling himself that, not the person watching the tapes.
>>3926178>Why do you care, retarded autist?Why so aggressive? I was wondering mostly, because if a bunch of redditors discovered this place they could severely lower quality of the threads
>>3926179>"Oh no! Anyway-".I think that's just as much your personal read and not directly supported. We can see that he's got a big issue with how things went down>This is Chujin.I messed up, miscalculated, something.Axis... Axis is dangerous.I must have overshot the variables, all I wanted was apprehension.Axis accomplishing what he did, even though its not what chujin wanted him to do, gets in his head. he later talks about the potential of axis, but this is a man going over the events and trying to come to terms with them.also what he says right before the "earned wasn't it" is important>Part of me wanted to quit everything that instant but...he's at war with himself. the part of him that hates this versus the part of him that is making himself find a reason to push forward. as well as >Anyway, I need to sleep.Though something tells me that will be difficult to do for a while.which just adds to the fact that chujin isn't brushing this off. even if the human being a child isn't part of it, which is not a hard sell, but even if we cut that out of it, much of the secret tape is centered around how this incident has impacted him. he's not going "oh no, anyways" he's going "oh my god, but I have to keep pushing forward, it's justified right?"
>>3926181>hold on I'm trying to find the full logs other than the secret tapeHere you go:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEYXLxRl0c&t=251s>but there would be a part of him deep down that felt unsettled by the memory of watching a child go off to an execution. no matter how deserved I think it would still get in his head.Well, he apparently didn't feel too much remorse for the kid after walking in on them having been turned into Ragu, but who knows.>my core point is that I think he's not a cold pragmatic.I'm not saying he is either, I'm saying that the threshold for something actually getting to him and making him feel the sorts of things that someone would be deeply introspective about is further than you were arguing it to be, and that based on in-game evidence he really doesn't seem to care too much about the human themself and is moreso scarred by the sight they left behind.It's like that one discussion I had about whether Sans would feel bad if he knew that Frisk had been somehow traumatized by the loops they went through to achieve a pacifist ending, and I pointed out how, based entirely on in-game evidence, Sans almost certainly wouldn't give a damn about Frisk being traumatized based on how he treats them in-game when compared to every other character.I get the idea of wanting a character you like to behave a certain way, but going off of canon material, this just isn't it.
>>3926182>they could severely lower quality of the threadsHaha yeaImagine what that would be like
>>3926185thank you, rewatching it now but I don't know why it wouldn't pull up in results.>and that based on in-game evidence he really doesn't seem to care too much about the human themself and is moreso scarred by the sight they left behind.I don't think he "cares about the human" but "the sight they left behind" is an understatement of the situation. he's bothered by what happened altogether based on how he starts the secret tape talking about axis. his first words after introducing himself are "I messed up". >I get the idea of wanting a character you like to behave a certain way, but going off of canon material, this just isn't it.I'm not getting into this side of things.
>>3926169>>3926171Well what if I'm going for a shoebill because I want a really intense looking and intimidating bird character?
>>3926187threads have been really good lately what are you on about.
>>3926184>I think that's just as much your personal read and not directly supported. We can see that he's got a big issue with how things went downNo, not really.He says he miscalculated because Axis didn't do as he was told, but he later says that what Axis did was "astounding", so he's not even that broken up about it.>he's at war with himself.No, he *was*. He says that part of him wanted to quit right then and there, but that was before he had even begun doing any work with souls and was just working with Axis. It's not like he had already started on the path, he choose to commit to it even while he had every opportunity to back out and give the soul to Asgore.>which just adds to the fact that chujin isn't brushing this off.Again, this is what I'm saying. The killing got to him because it was a nasty sight to see, not because the actual specifics of what happened messed him up, he doesn't care that a kid got gibbed, he's upset that his robot gibbed a kid against his orders and that he had to see the aftermath, he's not secretly choking back tears because an innocent child that murdered people died because of him.>he's going "oh my god, but I have to keep pushing forward, it's justified right?"He doesn't attempt to justify any of what he does after he acquired the human soul, he only speaks of justification when regarding the killing itself, he never makes any kind of justification during the experimentation process because that's not what he has an issue with.Again, this is the crux of all this.Chujin is upset that his robot malfunctioned and did something he didn't want to see, and he has issues with that, but he never expresses any kind of issue or remorse with what he does from that point onward, including his experimentation with the soul, which is why I was arguing earlier than Chujin almost certainly wouldn't care about whatever suffering the integrity soul may or may not have experienced in some revival scenario.
>>3926191bearded vultures are the cooler bird
>>3926193>No, he *was*. He says that part of him wanted to quit right then and there, but that was before he had even begun doing any work with souls and was just working with Axis. It's not like he had already started on the path, he choose to commit to it even while he had every opportunity to back out and give the soul to Asgore.he's very clearly still at war with himself. the phrasing is his doubts, then his justification, punctuated by "was it not?", and then a pause. a visible ... pause while chujins figure is in that nearly collapsed pose holding his head. he's still in the midst of justifying.>he's not secretly choking back tears because an innocent child that murdered people died because of him.I don't know why you are doing that when It's not anything along the lines of what I'm suggesting.
>>3926190>thank you, rewatching it now but I don't know why it wouldn't pull up in results.I just typed "UTY Chujin tapes" into youtube and found it.>he's bothered by what happened altogether based on how he starts the secret tape talking about axis.Again, not really. He starts talking about Axis because Axis malfunctioned and did something he didn't want him to do, which lead to him seeing the eviscerated body of a child, which is what actually scarred him, he isn't displaying remorse for the child.If anything, his "this outcome was earned" line, followed by the pause, isn't even an indication of remorse either, moreso just him regretting that things went that way specifically, rather than being upset that the child died at all.>I'm not getting into this side of things.Buddy, you started on this side of things when you were arguing that the guy who's biggest gripe about exploding a child is "wow, I wish I didn't have to see that, but how about this human soul, eh?" is actually super remorseful and introspective about the whole thing.This just isn't it man, we know his thoughts and feelings on the matter, and his only concerns were that he was made to bear witness to a messy scene, not that he regrets his experiments or even the kid's death to begin with.
>>3926197>"wow, I wish I didn't have to see that, but how about this human soul, eh?his reaction is definitely not like that. you're adding a lot of nonchalant behavior to someone who does this sprite when he talks about it.
>>3926195>he's very clearly still at war with himself.Not with his actions from there on out he's not.He has no issues at all with planning to use the soul for his own purposes, even when he says he doesn't actually have a concrete plan for what to do with the damn thing, he's all-in on doing whatever he wants with it without so much as a second thought about that.Again, the crux of all this, Chujin does not feel remorse for what he did with the soul, he has no issue with that whatsoever.>the phrasing is his doubts, then his justification, punctuated by "was it not?", and then a pause. a visible ... pause while chujins figure is in that nearly collapsed pose holding his head. he's still in the midst of justifying.Again, that's not about the soul, that's about the killing itself, what do you not understand about that?>I don't know why you are doing that when It's not anything along the lines of what I'm suggesting.You're the one who said Chujin would feel bad for what he did to the integrity soul in a post resurrection scenario, don't try and walk that back.
>>3926194Yeah they're cool, but they don't have a perpetual "goku on the xenoverse box art" look. Besides, I already had some vulture characters in a different role.
>>3926095I imagine the monsters probably highlight their words in advance. That's why there's a dumpster full of yellow names if you say you don't like yellow names. They wouldn't have to throw them out if they weren't already made.
>>3926198>you're adding a lot of nonchalant behavior to someone who does this sprite when he talks about it.This is known as hyperbole, and it is a figure of speech typically used to make points and for brevity.My point when describing things this way is to illustrate that the furthest extent to which Chujin is shown displaying any concerns or doubts regarding the whole situation is when talking/thinking about the gruesome sight he was made to bear witness to, and the fact that Axis malfunctioned, but he never expresses any doubt whatsoever when it comes to his plan to use the human soul for his own purposes, which was the start of all this, that you said he'd be conflicted about what he did to the soul during his experiments if he were somehow revived after the barrier was broken, and I've been arguing this whole time based directly on in-game evidence that not only would he not care about what he did to the soul directly, his only real issue with what went down between him and the human is that his robot malfunctioned and made him see something he didn't want to. He doesn't even seem concerned that the human is dead at all, just regret over "this outcome" in particular, which could just as easily be him expressing regret over the human dying a cruel and painful death, but not even necessarily regret over the human dying to begin with.
>>3926199>You're the one who said Chujin would feel bad for what he did to the integrity soul in a post resurrection scenario, don't try and walk that back.secretly choking back tears and holding regret over hurting someone over a cause it turns out you were wrong about are not the same thing. You're coming up with interpretations that do not fit what is happening.My words were faces his sins. we can see from the video he's not happy with what happened, and you yourself admitted that people get messed up over killings even if they feel they were justified. you can try to stretch and change what I was saying to be more extreme than it was, but you're now arguing against the version of me you've made up over the course of this. I've even divorced it from the idea of it being a kid multiple times. you can see how he reacts in the tapes, you can see his hairs going off in random directions as he's dealing with the situation then and there.
>>3926205>This is known as hyperbole, and it is a figure of speech typically used to make points and for brevity.and it doesn't fit what he's doing at all, you're using a hyperbole that is just wrong.>his only real issue with what went down between him and the human is that his robot malfunctioned and made him see something he didn't want to.>Axis... Axis is dangerous.I must have overshot the variables, all I wanted was apprehension.he seems bothered by more than just that he had to see something he didn't want to. and again, when he actually tries to justify what happened>>3926198his face is this sprite, it stays that way the whole segment only changing after the silence when he goes on to his next point. you're using a hyperbole to assert something that didn't play out in that way at all.
>>3925767Here you go: https://rentry.co/2e833iht>>3925775What did you get spoiled on? Also, I'm sorry if I'm the one who posted it, I just realized that I should have marked part of >>3926126 as a spoiler. My spoiler-discipline is atrophied.
>>3926209someone posted that starlo died I know he got better, for now at least but it was without context just one of those "oh fuck what?"
>>3926206>You're coming up with interpretations that do not fit what is happeningBull-fucking-shit.Unless you're some other guy who decided to take over another anon's argument for no reason, these are your words from earlier in the argument, you said he'd have to take a long hard look at himself, and you even specifically brought up the experiments as what he'd be feeling bad over earlier in the argument, you were specifically arguing that Chujin would feel bad about the human after what he did to them, when the game shows us that he never felt anything of the sort.
>>3926098Nta, but I can imagine Chujin thinking Integrity deserved it for being a murderer and a danger to society, on top of being a human whose soul they needed for their freedom. Or at least that's what he'd tell himself.Imagine the confrontation if both he and Integrity were resurrected. All the other humans confront Asgore for killing them, but Integrity ignores him completely and goes after Chujin to settle the score. Even she doesn't know what she wants to do with him, just that she needs to get even. If you want to further complicate things, maybe a bit of Integrity is permanently fused with Chujin's soul because of the serum experiments, so now he's got some of her memories and feelings mixed in with his.Honestly, even if Integrity stays dead, that second thing sounds really cool on its own. Chujin being haunted by a fragment of integrity that's permanently merged with him.
>>3926101A dead child who murdered a bunch of innocent monsters and attempted to murder Chujin's toddler daughter
>>3926211yeah, a long hard look at himself is nothing like "secretly crying" and maybe you should take a long hard look at yourself with the interpretations.and he'd feel bad depending on how involved the soul absorption process was which was also part of that part of the conversation if you please to actually go read it. if it was just a pinch here and a syringe there then he'd get over it aside from guilt over the killing (because as established, people experience guilt from killing even when its justified), but if it's a full on meta flowey hell he had to put her through to try and absorb? he's not stone cold enough to not feel guilt over that when he finds out that it was all unnecessary. You're taking bits and pieces of what I said and using them to upset yourself.
>>3926102Humans can start fights. Frisk starts one with Flowey and the one with Sans in the genocide route.
>>3926208>and it doesn't fit what he's doing at all, you're using a hyperbole that is just wrong.No, it does, because at no point in the tapes does he express any issue with what happened other than being upset at having to see what he saw and that his robot malfunctioned, not that he actually feels bad for the human themself, kid or not.His pausing after saying "This outcome was justified" isn't him feeling remorse for the human, it's him thinking about the scene itself, as people who have just seen something traumatizing tend to do, I would know.>his face is this sprite, it stays that way the whole segment only changing after the silence when he goes on to his next point. Yes, because his mind is dwelling on the horrible thing he just saw, not because he's actually thinking about the human themself.
>>3926212>Nta, but I can imagine Chujin thinking Integrity deserved it for being a murderer and a danger to society,probably, but a big part of what I've been saying is that people feel guilt over killing even when it's justified, and chujin strikes me as a father more than he does a scientist. I think he'd still feel guilt over it even if he felt she deserved it.
>>3926218I can't find it but I think I mentioned in a post that it's the vast majority of fights started by monsters, I don't mean to act like humans never start any of the fights, but we know monsters have a track record for initiating fights.
>>3926215>yeah, a long hard look at himself is nothing like "secretly crying" and maybe you should take a long hard look at yourself with the interpretations.Again, hyperbole, for him harboring his own regrets and remorse for what happened.>aside from guilt over the killing (because as established, people experience guilt from killing even when its justified)Not what the argument was about, you said this was about his efforts during the experimentation, and I don't think he'd be all that introspective over killing a human who killed several people and nearly harmed his daughter *twice*, that has nothing to do with the aftermath of all this.>but if it's a full on meta flowey hell he had to put her through to try and absorb?As established earlier in the argument, we have no evidence this is actually what happened, and second of all, what Flowey was doing to Clover was a deliberate choice on his part to fuck with him, fueled by Flowey's own malice towards Clover. Even if Chujin had tried to directly absorb the integrity soul, he wouldn't be putting them through that kind of experience because quite frankly he just didn't know who the hell they were on that kind of level to be able to fuck with them like that, and we have no indication that Chujin gained any real insight into who the integrity human was over the course of his experiments aside from that "I think I know why" line that's never elaborated on which could mean all sorts of things.
>>3926139I get that, but my issues with that story is that despite scp being collaborative, it wasn't written by the author of 5000, and is stated by the person who did it in the comments to be a headcanon for 5000. The person who wrote 5000 answered questions through one of those "declassifieds" and had a few things they were trying to do like leaving what the bad fate or the entity was completely to imagination and just stating "the bad guys won". that story is one of the more common headcanons I've seen on the story, and it helps some though it does answer the questions too thoroughly going in the opposite direction. it's got great storytelling but it fails to dance the line of hiding just enough and showing just enough.it's a great read, the way it actually plays out is pretty good, but it reminds me of the people on that site that overuse the redaction killing the story in the process.
>>3926220>I think he'd still feel guilt over it even if he felt she deserved it.And you can think that all you want, but as the tapes show, his real problem with what happened was what he saw, not that he felt remorseful for the human themself, kid or otherwise.He goes from talking about the gruesome scene Axis had created to talking about the potential presented by his newly acquired human soul, before remarking that he's going to have trouble sleeping for the next few nights, but it's never implied that he has any serious moral issue with what happened aside from just having a hard time stomaching the carnage he saw, but he never has any issue pocketing the soul for himself and doing whatever he wants with it.
>>3926227>it's got great storytelling but it fails to dance the line of hiding just enough and showing just enough.I thought the guy dying at the end and saying "So that's how it is", like he's just realized he's done something terrible was a pretty strong implication of what was going on, but I guess.>but it reminds me of the people on that site that overuse the redaction killing the story in the process.Eh, fair.
>>3926116>but we do also know that monsters can sometimes use their magic attacks as a form of social interactionNta. but most of the monsters in Undertale are actually trying to kill you, so they can get your soul and escape the underground. There's important thematic reasons behind this. The monsters as a race view the surface and reaching at the solution to all their problems, and the Underground as the unpassable wall which keeps them away from all their hopes and dreams. They're trying to hurt you because they feel like they have to, and the ACTs are you convincing them that they can reach their dreams and be happy without killing you.There are monsters that aren't intentionally trying to kill you like Woshua, Temmie, and Vulcan, but they're the tiny minority. And even then they are still very capable of killing you, and have to be talked out of doing it. Woshua in particular knows he could kill you with his bullets, that just isn't his goal. He wants you clean, dead or alive.>. I don't think Chujin would be the kind of person to goHe was already horrified when Axis killed Integrity, even if on some level he should have known this was going to happen. Monsters are just too empathetic. He can't help but feel bad for her, even if he had to kill her. Regardless of whether he actually was right or wrong, I could easily see him coming to think he was, especially if he spoke to integrity and learned that she had good justifications for her actions. Maybe some reveal that frames her and Chujin as being the same, attacking people out of fear because they were hurt in the past, not once stopping to talk or try and figure out if fighting is even necessary.
>>3926232>I thought the guy dying at the end and saying "So that's how it is", like he's just realized he's done something terrible was a pretty strong implication of what was going on, but I guess.I think that was good, but that moment is lacking connective tissue so the way it comes across is almost peaceful if that makes sense. when he says that it almost is as if he has some unrelated epiphany (I know that's not the case but still). I don't want it to answer the question, but it makes me feel like when the author wrote it, he didn't actually have the bad thing in question figured out in his head, since almost nothing in the actual story draws to it other than the one line about "not supposed to feel pain" and it's such a distant thread that it feels like it's hanging.that image is perfect though, I open scp occasionally and there's some good stuff there, but there's just so much of THAT. hell, one of the scps that is used to revert everything in 5000 is literally talked about in its own article where the "joke" is that its an empty room but redacted. this is a bit off topic though I guess.
>>3926233>Monsters are just too empathetic.this comes to mind a lot, emotionally unstable little shits. I love them but god damn they're a mess.>Asgore goes from having his hope completely restored to killing himself in a matter of seconds.
>>3926233>He was already horrified when Axis killed IntegrityBecause of what he saw.>I could easily see him coming to think he was, especially if he spoke to integrity and learned that she had good justifications for her actions.Which we don't know but is implied by the game to be wrong, given that we hear that the integrity soul attacked out of the blue multiple times, and not to mention the fact that they willingly climbed a whole damn mountain, went into the underground in the first place.>Maybe some reveal that frames her and Chujin as being the same, attacking people out of fear because they were hurt in the past, not once stopping to talk or try and figure out if fighting is even necessary.Chujin said in the secret tape that he was with Kanako and some others when the human attacked, before he sent Axis to go hunt them down. If I was scared and outnumbered in hostile territory, I don't think my first move would be to launch hit and run attacks on heavily populated areas, even if I had been attacked first at one point, I'd probably try and keep myself hidden.Also, even if the human did want to use violence as a solution, UT shows us that you can get monsters to stand down by dealing enough damage to them without killing them, so actively killing multiple monsters is a choice, not an accident.Axis was a machine bound to his code, even if some parts of it aren't written as they should be. The fallen human was a human being with free will, they made their own decisions.
>>3926150Probably nothing, they're scared of posting Sig because his art is too much for them, and they aren't militant enough to brigade, so they'd probably just avoid us because this is the scary nazi site. The few that didn't would either leave because it isn't for them, or adapt and become indistinguishable from any other poster. A few of the people from the Wildfire d*scord have become regulars here. If even shitcord users can assimilate, then I'm sure redditors can too. And if they can't, I highly doubt they'll stick around.
>>3926136Well I would hope they think its pretty cool, I want my game to be cool
>>3926191when in doubt, aura farm
>>3926142Chujin killed a little girl. He has his own little girl at home. Even if he had to do it, its still going to fuck with him. You ever hear stories about soldiers being forced to shoot child combatants in the middle east? It messes them up pretty bad.
>>3926150the same as it's been for decades. people find 4chan via some means or another, they either adapt to the culture (not needed on /v/ anymore apparently) or get filtered by the autism / PASSION. people without the will of an autism warrior can not handle our power level.
>>3926240I'm going to be honest, some dork redditors showing up would probably not register nearly as bad as the fag over in the /v/ deltarune thread, at least there's the remote possibility that they actually like or played the game.
>>3926244if this happens to humans with their relatively "thick skin" then I can't imagine a monster not having a bad time. Imagine if a regular ass whimsun got the kill on some human or another. suddenly a hero with ptsd
>>3926126I'm glad you kept it in ultimately, but on a note related to what happened after, I'm really sad that clover went postal after waking back up later. I was looking forward to seeing how Ed, or really all of the Feistyj reacted to learning that they were in fact hurting Clover and that the prior encounter was all their fault.
>>3926244>Chujin killed a little girl.Presumed, we don't know how old they were exactly, and again, in-game evidence points to them being a real fuck.I don't think most of the monsters that face Frisk in the genocide route would be too broken up about killing them, no matter how old they are, most monsters seem pretty ready to accept the idea of Frisk just being pretty objectively evil and have no trouble facing them and trying to kill them.
>>3926146I feel like both of you are missing the point here. Sure it might be that, but what it IS doesn't really matter. We're discussing a hypothetical redemption story, which is what COULD be. This is an intentionally nebulous topic which can go in any number of directions. You absolutely could take it in the direction where Integrity was being tortured mentally I Have No Mouth style and Chujin didn't even know, and when they meet she explains to him just all the horrible things he did to her with his experiments. From there you could very easily write him being horrified at his own actions. He did all of this horrible shit, and even if he had good intentions, it ultimately amounted to nothing but needless suffering and death. That's plenty to have the man rethink his decisions over.
I feel like it's worth pointing out that even if Chujin felt remorse over what happened to the integrity human, that's entirely irrelevant to the original question, since him sending Axis after them had nothing to do with his experiments and what he did for the "greater good". He sent Axis after them for short-term self-defense, him experimenting with the soul and his serum project was just him seizing an opportunity when it was presented to him, and the game shows us that he had no problem doing whatever he was doing in his basement until it up and killed him.
>>3926254>it ultimately amounted to nothing but needless suffering and deathI have to wonder if his thought process could start here on the legacy side of thing. he was so obsessed with legacy, imagine if he came to all of the realizations kind of "backwards" "that was all pointless, no one would have remembered a thing I did, and the things I did were..."
>>3926178You're talking about multiple people, anon. I personally don't have a grudge against Toby. I just think its a little silly to deny that Toby was part of the Tumblr crowd when he was practically a founding member of that culture.
>>3926257the original statement was "faces his sins" which is actually a fairly broad concept and the conversation happening IMMEDIATELY before that was "Chujin Cock and ball torture, from wikipedia the free encyclopedia"
>>3926261meant for >>3926255
>>3926254No, this all started with this, when the second guy here brought up the idea of Chujin facing his "sins", when in actuality Chujin's only real transgression was not field testing his robots properly and not thinking his serum project through.When it comes to what the game actually shows us, he basically hasn't done anything that would constitute "sin", at least not when it comes to his serum project, since the stuff with killing the integrity soul was entirely it's own self-contained incident that wasn't done for any reason other than stopping the integrity human in the moment, it's not like he had the human killed *for* their soul.
>>3926263>he basically hasn't done anything that would constitute "sin"killing is usually considered a sin anon.
>>3926261You know, I always though "cock and ball torture" was a fairly nebulous term.Don't get me wrong, I think that image I drew definitely counts, but what else falls under that umbrella?Milking, denial, do those count?Cause if so, I've drawn a fair bit more of that than just the Chujin image.Hell, that's not even the first time I drew Chujin like that, the first one was just a lot tamer and also not as good.
>>3926268its a very wide umbrella which is of course expounded upon in the whole "COCK AND BALL TORTURE FROM WIKIPEDIA THE FREE ENCYCLOPEDIA"
>>3926267He didn't do it, Axis did, while malfunctioning.Hey wait a minute isn't this just-
>>3926269Alright, I'll give it a read.
>>3926270now we're talking
>>3926269Okay, so I only looked at it for like a second before I saw the attached images and closed it, so I didn't read far enough to tell if overstimulation was on there, but I assume it would be.Anyway I'm not typically into sounding, I just felt like putting Chujin through it because he's cute and I have issues.
>>3926272So does that make the people arguing against Chujin here the Dr.Wily in this case?
>>3926243If we're gonna use zoomer terms, I'm going for more of a black air force energy than I am aura farming. The kind of character that has a presence because of their actions and how dangerous they can be. If you want an example, think of John Wick or Clone Wars 2003 Grevious. No showing off, just getting straight to the point.
>>3926275yes except if you remember it was dr wily who used the machine to kill a girl. so it gets deeper.
>>3926277Oh my god, the anons of this thread hacked Axis to make him kill the integrity human so they could pin it on Chujin, oh fuck.
>>3926274I save this image for special moments like this you know.
>>3926221That I can accept, but I highly doubt little toddler Kanako was starting a fight with Integrity. After a certain point Integrity was just shooting first and asking questions later.
>>3926281she didn't attack Kanako (strictly speaking). she "attacked Dalv". not trying to be pedantic, it's chujins words.or did she show up twice
>>3926280Better watch your mouth or it's back to the CBT dungeon with you, Chujin.
>>3926278alright so what does that make all of this, if chujin is light somehow, is Joe clover and he's fighting on Chujins side to take back the side from the evil doctor...or is clover protoman, nah thats not right I dont think.
>>3926228anon he was replying to here. That may have been him intentionally avoiding the issue. Men who love their work like Chujin tend to immerse themselves in it when stressed, and will purposely focus on it to distract from things they don't want to think about. Maybe Chujin really does feel guilty for killing integrity in such a gruesome way, but doesn't let himself think about it because he can't bear the thought, and instead focuses on his work at every chance he's given. Sort of like Walter White focusing on how lucky they were more people didn't die when that plane crash that he indirectly caused happened.
>>3926284I dunno, I don't think this joke has that much mileage.Still, nice to be able to briefly mention The Protomen after I've been listening to them on loop for the past few days while I work on drawings and whatnot.
>>3926286I remember listening to them back in fucking highschool. I can't bring myself to even listen to act 3, I feel like it can only dissapoint after this long. can't make asgore wily, too little confidence.
>>3926285Honestly, I don't even care anymore, this topic is dumb, it got sidetracked from the original point about the experiments, and I don't think anyone really wants to talk about it anymore.>Sort of like Walter White focusing on how lucky they were more people didn't die when that plane crash that he indirectly caused happened.Fucking spoilers man, damn it.
>>3926287>I can't bring myself to even listen to act 3, I feel like it can only dissapoint after this long. I dunno, I've been listening to a bunch of their stuff the past few days, it all sounds pretty fucking awesome to me.
>>3926237Monster's emotions are their biology. Its just the monster equivalent of a human going from perfectly healthy to dying in a few seconds because you got a little exited and your organs couldn't keep up.
>>3926290>perfectly healthy to dying in a few seconds because you got a little exited and your organs couldn't keep up.look I know it DOES happen, but framing it like that really makes asgore look even more sad.
>>3926289I'll give it a shot, but shit man its been like 20 years I think right?
>>3926293About, yeah.I think they've only gotten better over time, but to each their own.
>>3926284this reminds me of the green of samurai jack meeting chujin.>>3926294I'm hopeful that it could be good, it's just hard to imagine living up to the hype. we'll see though.
>>3926251*opens the vault*I have something for you, anon: https://rentry.co/dgfkghgkI really, really wanted to keep this in, but I believed that the Feisty Five battle was too fragile, where they all believed they were playing right up until blood wasn't just spilled, but pouring. More than anything, I wanted to avoid any feeling of the battle being contrived or forced, or things getting way too edgy. In the end, what I posted here got a couple comments to that effect anyways and I tried to tune it accordingly.Goin' to sleep now. I hope it scratches that itch.
Hey, so, since this whole argument only started when the idea of Chujin's "sins" was brought up after we started talking about that drawing I made, do I get credit for causing this?I mean, aside from being involved in the argument directly anyway?
>>3926238>they willingly climbed a whole damn mountain, went into the underground in the first place.Willingly climbed the mountain sure, but going for a hike doesn't mean murderous intent. I don't think anyone aside from Clover intentionally fell into the Underground. Most people don't even know its there.> I don't think my first move would be to launch hit and run attacks on heavily populated areasWho's to say they were hit and run attacks. Maybe she just ran into them and panicked.> you can get monsters to stand down by dealing enough damage to them without killing theBut she may not have known about the mercy system. If no one explained it to her, there's a chance her first experience of monsters really could have been some Froggit trying to kill her, and then her attacking every monster she runs into after that, not knowing peace was an option.And you're still missing the point that we're discussing what could be here. There's room to write it the way I said, and I think a story like that could compelling, so I say it has merit. You're getting too caught up in canon to see the IMAGINative potential here.
>>3926284Not really the same thing, but I imagined an encounter between pacifist Clover and post-pacifist-genocide Clover going pretty similarly to The Stand.
>>3926291He's a lonely old monster whose been depressed for a very very long time. He's like the monster equivalent of a 60 year old chain smoker who eats way too much unhealthy food.
>>3926296oh shit, thank you for that. diving in right now.
>>3926250> Imagine if a regular ass whimsun got the kill on some human or another. suddenly a hero with ptsd
>>3926296oh fuck Moray looks to Mooch and Ace. Ace steps forward, ready to take an order. Mooch does not. Her eyes are riveted to the body. No, he’s not just a body yet, he’s Clover, but humans, they don’t turn to dust when they die. How alive is he, and when is he not alive anymore? Mooch is starting to hyperventilate. I know it didn't make the final cut but this is the "good" terrifying stuff.
>>3926303oh jesus it really is him.
>>3926298>Maybe she just ran into them and panicked.Multiple times? In the same area? Come on now, they should've known better. There's even a massive forest around Snowdin they could've tried sneaking through instead, they knew what they were doing.>But she may not have known about the mercy system.I'm pretty sure you still get text like "[enemy] doesn't want to fight anymore" even if you don't listen to the explanations on sparing, so I feel like it would be hard to just not know about that as a concept.Plus, in-universe, I feel like it would be pretty easy to tell when someone doesn't want to fight you anymore, and even if you don't know about sparing them, running away without killing them is almost always an option, unless she was under the effects of green magic, and I don't think she ran into Undyne at any point.>You're getting too caught up in canon to see the IMAGINative potential here.This turned into a discussion of how characters were shown to have acted and felt in-game by like the third reply, what you're talking about hasn't been what the discussion was about for a while now, you're missing the point.Again, it's over, no one cares anymore.
>>3926307>I'm pretty sure you still get text like "[enemy] doesn't want to fight anymore" even if you don't listen to the explanations on sparing, so I feel like it would be hard to just not know about that as a concept.it says that on a few monsters but I don't THINK thats universal.
>>3926257That seems more in character, at least with how I read him. His avoidance means that he'd always want to think of his work first. Only dropping that when it fails him too. So his coping mechanism failing would lead to a cascading failure where he starts thinking about how much of failure he is as a person and as a father. Especially if his chasing of a legacy lead to the death of the only legacy he would have left, his only daughter. And from there the comparisons between Kanako and Integrity practically make themselves.Maybe Chujin would just break down, and Integrity would decide that its better to leave him like this, if only because she doesn't want to deny him the anguish of living with his guilt. Meanwhile it still leaves some opportunity for Chujin to get what's left of his life together and to try and become better.
>>3926299that's pretty good, so pacifist clover loses his own hope for a time huh
>>3926309I kind of like it, but I also, with absolutely no foundation headcanon integrity staying with asgore and no one in the public ever learning what her fucking deal actually was. It's tough because an actual confrontation between the two is interesting.
>>3926263He could still view them as sins, and you could easily frame them as such, which is what that anon would probably have done in the process of "giving Chujin his happy ending and making him face his sins". That is absolutely a discussion of what could be.
>>3926271No, you have to listen to the narrated version.
>>3926301the more you say the more I'm seeing it. Its like asgore walked into a restaurant that was a bit colder than he expected and it was over.
>>3926275>>3926270haven't played Megaman, qrd?
>>3926312>He could still view them as sins, and you could easily frame them as suchWhen it comes to the experiments, which was a core part of the initial argument, Chujin never referred to the soul as anything other than a temperamental research object, he never seems to acknowledge or suggest the idea that it's a conscious entity in it's own right, aside from that one line that has no elaboration associated with it.My point was, when it comes to the experiments specifically, he has no reason to view them as "sins" because he has no reason to assume he was inflicting suffering upon a conscious entity, and there's nothing in-game that suggest this might have been the case either, this is what the argument was about.>That is absolutely a discussion of what could be.It's not a discussion anymore, most parties have already withdrawn from it and I have stated in earlier posts that I don't care anymore, just shut it already.
>>3926288>Honestly, I don't even care anymore, this topic is dumb,I've just been trying to explain that the idea of a Chujin with a guilty conscience has merit as the basis for a story. Personally, I don't care too much if it fits the developer's vision or complies with canon, I see a way it could work and think it would be a fun read.>Fucking spoilers manAnon, Breaking Bad is 18 years old.
>>3926315rock opera albums that dropped 20 years ago with a plot very loosely following mega man. was all the rage around here back way back when.
>>3926315The Protomen is a band that makes songs telling a story set in a gritty version of the Megaman universe.In this story, Dr.Wily used one of Dr.Light's robots to kill some girl and then pin it on Light, using this moment to oust Light from society and take control of the city for himself, creating an oppressive regime that would later be fought by Protoman (briefly) and then Megaman.Also the music is fucking awesome and you should go listen to it.
>>3926317>I see a way it could work and think it would be a fun read.I think it's out of character based on what we see of him in-game and is therefore not an interesting idea because of how much it has to depart from what his character is shown to be, but whatever at this point.>Anon, Breaking Bad is 18 years old.A lot of things are 18 years old, have you experienced every single thing that's 18 years old? All of them?I only have so much time man, I can't get around to everything whenever you want me to.
>>3926307>r. There's even a massive forest around Snowdin they could've tried sneaking through instead, they knew what they were doing.Its a pretty cold forest and all she's got is a tutu and ballet shoes. Maybe she was cold and looking for shelter, maybe she'd been there a while and was hungry looking for food.>I'm pretty sure you still get text like "[enemy] doesn't want to fight anymore"Sometimes it says that, sometimes it doesn't. Its also pretty easy to accidentally kill monsters, they're not very tough.>what you're talking about hasn't been what the discussion was about for a while nowThat's why I said both of you are missing the point. There's a much more interesting topic here that both of you are passing by for a tired canon discussion>Again, it's over, no one cares anymore.Maybe you don't care anymore, this is all fresh for me. If you don't want to talk about it, just don't, and those of us who do can talk about it ourselves. Or hell, if no one else is interested, the discussion will simply die if you stop replying.
>>3926322>Or hell, if no one else is interested, the discussion will simply die if you stop replying.Then quit replying to me then.
>>3926310"From the balcony 20 stories high, I have watched the underground burn..."
>>3926322nta but what aspect are you wanting to discuss, stories involving the idea or something? I could use an excuse to continue not writing anything tonight I should really get writing, I wanted to have something ready for the weekend but I'm too wrapped up in the energy from reading other fics.
>>3926311Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. She could have been living happily with Asgore until one day, while out on a scroll, she saw that purple bastard in public, and followed him home to get her revenge. Then after the exchange was over, she want to Asgore, satisfied that she had been paid back for all he did to her.
>>3926314Less like that, and more like that grandma who died watching Passion Of The Christ.
>>3926316>My point was, when it comes to the experiments specifically, he has no reason to view them as "sins" because he has no reason to assume he was inflicting suffering upon a conscious entity,Ok, but imagine how he would react if he found out that he was putting Integrity through literal hell while doing that. That's what I'm getting at here.>just shut it already.I'm enjoying this discussion. If you aren't then just quit replying and discuss something else. No need to get combative.
>>3926326>and followed him home to get her revenge.NTA, but it's not really revenge if you're doing something to someone, over something they did to you, which they did over something you did to them.
>>3926320What happened to Protoman?Also I've heard the music, its just a bit hard to make sense of when I haven't played Megaman.
>>3926329>but imagine how he would react if he found out that he was putting Integrity through literal hell while doing that. That's what I'm getting at here.I already brought it up earlier in the argument, and received no response on it, but that makes no sense.What Clover experienced while being absorbed by Flowey was an intentional act on Flowey's part, he was deliberately trying to fuck with them because he was sick of Clover trying to stay with Martlet, and he was weaponizing everything he knew about them from every timeline they've been through together.Chujin, by contrast, didn't know jack fuck about the integrity human, and wouldn't be able to put them through something like that even if he wanted to, which he wouldn't because for as much as I argued he wouldn't have cared too much about what happened to the human, he's not Flowey.
>>3926321>A lot of things are 18 years old, have you experienced every single thing that's 18 years old?No, but I do accept that people shouldn't have to hide spoilers for 18 year old shows. After a certain point spoilers are just an inevitability you have to accept. You don't spoiler text every mention of the bedroom scene in the weird route or the appearance of the knight because someone might not have played the new chapters yet.Hell, I had the ending of breaking bad spoiled to me years ago, but I didn't get mad because I was late to the party and that's just the kind of thing that happens.
>>3926323Anon, I said I'm replying because I'm enjoying this discussion. You're the one choosing to engage in a discussion he dislikes to his own detriment.
>>3926303Man I love Racter.
>>3926335MIL...R...miller...
>>3926331>What happened to Protoman?If I remember correctly, Protoman tried to take on the Robot Masters all at once, and got defeated while the people of the city watched. After that, he was convinced to join Wily on the basis that the people of the city deserve the oppression of Wily's regime because they're unwilling to stand up for themselves, and therefore need to be controlled.Megaman would eventually take up Protoman's fight against Dr.Wily under the impression that Protoman had been killed by Wily's Robot Masters, and would start to lead the people of the city to revolt against Wily. Eventually, in The Stand, Megaman would come face to face with Protoman, who would then fight Megaman in a one-on-one as an example of how his fight was pointless, and is ultimately killed by Megaman if I recall correctly.I forget whether or not it was canon that Protoman was only antagonizing the people of the city because he wanted to try and force them to rise up against him and Wily.
>>3926325>nta but what aspect are you wanting to discussThe idea of the confrontation between Chujin and Integrity, and him falling apart as he realizes just what he did and how little he accomplished doing it is pretty cool. But I also still really like that idea of him permanently carrying a piece of Integrity's soul in him because of the experiment, and being haunted by that.> I should really get writing,Don't feel too bad. I'm using this as an excuse to not program.
>>3926330It absolutely can be. The endless cycle of revenge is a concept that has been discussed (sometimes rather poorly) in philosophy and media a lot.
>>3926339Eh, maybe.I do feel like it's a little biased to call Chujin "that purple bastard", as if he wasn't defending his family and people from an active murderer, but whatever.
>>3926326I want to go with an angle that, getting her "revenge" isn't satisfying to her, maybe she goes back to Asgore, and having lived with him for a while she opens up about it. this is kind of choppy but>the house was silent as asgore went about pouring tea, in these months knowing the child, asgore had come to pick some things up. >something was bothering her>as the lumbering giant of a boss monster poured tea in front of her, he resolved to let her speak when she was ready. he would be here.>they sat in silence for a few minutes more before integrity suddenly blurted out ," I made a monster cry today! the one that killed me". >indeed asgore had picked up a lot in his time, what may have sounded to others like excitement, was clearly something else in his eyes. The way she averted her eyes, the raised pitch, her nerves were eating at her. Asgore spoke softly in response, wiping up the tea he had spilled in her little surprise, "did you now, how did that make you feel young one?">Integrity swung her legs avoiding the question for a moment as asgore simply out-waited her stubbornness. she finally whispered, "He deserved it..." >Asgore nodded, not necessarily in agreement as he asked again, "Perhaps that is true, but how do you feel about it?". She still couldn't quite look him in the eyes as she mumbled to herself.>He hummed with a low rumble, "I'm sorry my child, could you speak up?" he saw the frustration in the corners of her expression, this one always seemed to have difficulty expressing herself. >finally Integrity mumbled again little louder, "It felt bad, I don't... why did it feel bad?">Asgore looked at her with a gentle expression as she finally met his eyes, the centuries of isolation had given him time to think over the rippling effects of his own quest for revenge, one that had included even her in it. >He explained thoughtfully, pausing lightly between words giving her space to consider what he said
>>3926332Ok, but what if it was possible to do it accidentally, say that a living nightmare is just part of the process of being absorbed. Maybe Flowey's was worse because he had direct control over his, but having your very soul be eaten alive still causes something like that.I think learning that would get a reaction out of ChujinAlso, I reply to these as I read the thread. So that means I haven't always read posts made after the one I'm replying to while I'm replying to it.
>>3926340well yes, but I assume when anon typed that it was from integrities perspective. >>3926341oh i ran out of words in this, but the thought was that integrity didn't actually make chujin "cry" but was saying that almost to elicit a reaction from asgore as kids do sometimes, saying shit just to get dad to raise an eyebrow.
>>3926340I was writing that as what Integrity would call him. I imagine she wouldn't have many nice things to say about him.
>>3926337>I forget whether or not it was canon that Protoman was only antagonizing the people of the city because he wanted to try and force them to rise up against him and Wily.he says "maybe one day they'll learn a hero is just a man who knows he is free". I like to interpret that as in some way him wanting to hope, mostly because both the megas and the protomen depict protoman as less "heroic to his fuckin nuts and bolts" than he actually is
>>3926335remember to drink responsibly, anon.
>>3926337You now understand the retardation that is accelerationism.
>>3926144what if we sent the naranja demo to yogurt
>>3926306It really is. The entire basis for his character is "what if some random Froggit got a human soul". He's supposed to be Froggit or Whimsun tier, completely out of his league in the conflict he's been placed in.
>>3926342>but what if it was possible to do it accidentally, say that a living nightmare is just part of the process of being absorbed.I feel like something like that would've been brought up in UT if that was the case, also that's just fucking boring.It's just boring, it's a boring scenario. It's not an interesting story if it's all just a big conga line of completely unintentional accidents, then it just turns into "I'm upset at you because you mentally tortured my soul!", "I didn't know that was happening and I only did that because you were killing people!", "I only killed people because they attacked me!", "They only attacked you because monsters use magic as social interaction and also they were drawn to your soul!", etc, etc.It's not interesting if it's all just a bunch of shit no one meant to do or is made to bear any real responsibility for.That aside, what would the soul have even experienced at that point? Chujin doesn't know a damn thing about them, so none of it would actually be anything personal that would make sense. Would it just be generic spooky shit?Boo fucking hoo. Chujin's memories or some weird look into his own mind? Oh no, they were made to experience the soul-crushing pain of being laid off from the most comically terrible job in the underground, how terrifying for them.Like, once you actually try and dissect the details for this idea, it pretty clearly makes no sense, and if you just try and force it for the sake of the story then it's not compelling because then it's just a bunch of shit that makes no sense for the sake of yet another sob story.
>>3926303Man, I still need to do that image of the soul making Racter beat off against his will.
>>3926353Please don't do that to him, it will make me sad.
>>3926355What does Racter want (that the soul can help him with). Surely there are things they can accomplish together that Racter would be happy with.
>>3926341I like this. Asgore knows how it feels to be both parties in this exchange. He knows how Chujin felt on his quest, and how it feels to be confronted by the people you killed. >>3926343You could have made it a two part greentext
>>3926355Have you considered that it would be really funny though?C'mon, just imagine him exhausted, already having came like ten times already, just to see the soul hovering over the "proceed" option yet again.
>>3926357>I like this. Asgore knows how it feels to be both parties in this exchange. He knows how Chujin felt on his quest, and how it feels to be confronted by the people you killed.it's part of why I headcanon Asgore raising integrity. Asgore has fucked up a lot in his life, but he's in a unique position to deal with a kid that may have a few issues (I imagine he pays more attention after what happened with chara and all of those long years to think), a kid that hurt his people but was also hurt by his people>two part green texttrue, I was setting out to make it one single post and just said "fuck" when I ran out of room.
>>3926351I like that a lot I need to get back to work on that oldentale story, I've been thinking about it all week I need oldentale anon to draw more of his characters because.
>>3926352>ey only attacked you because monsters use magic as social interaction and also they were drawn to your soul!I don't like that one myself. I think the monsters actually do attack the humans on purpose, explicitly to get their soul.I was thinking about this not as a series of accidents, but as a series of willfull misunderstandings with disastrous consequences. Integrity was a scared child who let a couple bad experiences with monsters color her view of all of them, and painted innocents with the same brush as truly guilty parties because of it, while not once taking a moment to stop and think about why any of this was happening or if there was a better way, because they're monsters, they tried to kill her, why should she. Meanwhile Chujin holds a grudge against humans for something their ancestors did thousands of years ago, and applies that same malicious intent to a scared and confused child to justify doing horrible things to her, and did even more horrible things by accident because he refused to evaluate risks because of his grudge and fear.It makes it a morally complex conflict where each character is both right and wrong in some way.>what would the soul have even experienced at that pointYou know how you have fever dreams or indigestion induced nightmares, which take elements from the real world around you and turn them into horrific things? I imagine it would be like that, but with the only stimulus she has, being the violent intrusion of Chujin into her mind as his attempts to consume hers. Maybe she sees it as some rusty industrial nightmare world, sort of like the night sections of silent hill, which is based on Chujin's fascination with machines, while she's being chased down by an ever present fox demon that keeps trying to eat her. Occasionally she finds familiar spaces, pulled from her own memories, but they're all being slowiy twisted by the mechanical corruption as Chujin in the form of that fox demon draws ever closer.
>>3926358It would be funnier to imagine the soul making him make passes at every attractive anthro he comes across. Imagine being forced to flirt with a psychopath that literally wants to eat you because the ghost possessing you said she was a "dommy mommy".
>>3926296Sweet, delicious edgekino>>3926325I know that feeling anon. But if I don't write even a little bit every day I feel like I've wasted the whole day. A healthy schedule really is the key to all this, but an active thread is so tempting....>>3926341I like how this shows Asgore's gentle side.>>3926365And funniest if doing this actually results in the best outcome.
>>3926365that literally happens in game if you pursue the kitsy route
>>3926356He probably has some childhood crush that he was always too much of an coward to approach. Or maybe some assholes at work that he's never stood up to, but always dreams of telling off. Or just the classic standby of being rich and well liked.If you've every seen The Mask or Spiderman 3, you'd get an idea of the kind of things a downtrodden wimp would dream about doing if he weren't a downtrodden wimp.
>>3926367>I know that feeling anon. But if I don't write even a little bit every day I feel like I've wasted the whole day.Ahh, I know the feeling well>but an active thread is so tempting....as well as this one. all too well
>>3926363and I need to get back to work on drawing those characters. I was actually working on a design for one earlier today, but I still can't get it figured out.
>>3926368you say that like you've already played the game
>>3926369Oh no, I'm starting to like and want to help Racter! not as much as that one anon but still
>>3926364>I think the monsters actually do attack the humans on purpose, explicitly to get their soul.That's likely not the case for most monsters, since we know for a fact from UT that a lot of monsters can't actually recognize humans by sight, even some of the more intelligent ones.>Chujin holds a grudge against humans for something their ancestors did thousands of years agoI wouldn't really call it a "grudge", namely because his actual feelings aren't really that petty, and also because I think having negative feelings over your entire race being imprisoned under a mountain for a thousands years and repeatedly kicked while you're down is actually fairly justifiable all things considered.>applies that same malicious intent to a scared and confused child to justify doing horrible things to herHe didn't really have any malicious intent towards the human, Axis killing them was an accident, not the plan.>and did even more horrible things by accident because he refused to evaluate risks because of his grudge and fear.I feel like way too much of this relies on twisting things into being way more specifically intentional than they actually were, and on taking character's stated and displayed actions and motivations and completely throwing them out for the sake of this story.>being the violent intrusion of Chujin into her mind as his attempts to consume hers.Setting aside the issue of that likely not being what happened, absorbing a soul doesn't really seem like absorbing the soul's "mind" so much as it just seems like physically taking the soul into your body and using it to boost your own power. Like, Asriel didn't assimilate Chara's mind when he absorbed their soul, they were still their own independently thinking entity even after being absorbed, Asriel just had the power to override Chara's actions in their shared body.
>>3926371I'm sending you my energy anon, I believe!
>>3926367>And funniest if doing this actually results in the best outcome.Its also funny if it results in him getting murdered in equal measure. Like for every date he scores, there's another one where the "pretty monster lady" invites him into her house/hotel room/ cave/ random dark alley and brutally murders him for his soul, and (you) are just like "damn, I really thought I had her there."
>>3926364Honestly, even aside from the logistical issues, this idea is just fuckin' boring. Where's it go after all that's established, Chujin and the integrity human get brought back to life to do, what exactly? It's not like that (also dumb) idea of having Clover hang out with Zenith Martlet after murdering 78 people, at least those two have some kind of connection, but what the hell are Chujin and the integrity soul going to do? Why would they even meet? Wouldn't Chujin be spending time with his family, and not dealing with some upset kid he doesn't even know, outside of them, oh, killing a bunch of people and nearly hurting his fucking daughter, twice?How the hell would they even meet? What, we're gonna have Asgore take the integrity human to meet Chujin and have him say "Mr.Chujin, what you did made this child feel very upset, what do you have to say for yourself?"? This idea is fucking stupid, these two characters have no reason to be spending any significant amount of time with each other for any reason if they were both revived, and I don't think they would *want* to spend any amount of time together either.Having everything on both sides be unintentional is contrived and boring, and there isn't even a real conflict here, it's just dumb.
>>3926376It's a gamble, just like being forward with women in real life. High stakes, high reward.
>>3926378>turning Racter into god damn Johnny bravo>my soul told me about women like you
>>3926374>since we know for a fact from UT that a lot of monsters can't actually recognize humans by sight, even some of the more intelligent ones.But the ones that do attack you on sight>, namely because his actual feelings aren't really that petty,Grudges don't have to be petty, you can have some pretty serious grudges. Those can be written in blood over centuries.> is actually fairly justifiableEven if a grudge is justified and you're within your right to hold it, it may not be the best thing to do. And that's completely setting aside that this is punishing modern humans for the sins of their fathers.>He didn't really have any malicious intent towards the human, Axis killing them was an accident, not the plan.Didn't you say earlier that he would have had to kill her at some point either way for his plans? How else was he going to get that soul?> absorbing a soul doesn't really seem like absorbing the soul's "mind" so much as it just seems like physically taking the soul into your bodyFine, as his soul attempts to consume hers. Even if their minds don't literally merge, she could still have these nightmares from his soul attacking hers in an attempt to make it submit to the absorption. All those things being her mind desperately trying to make sense of what little stimulation its receiving.
>>3926364I think the story could progress with them unintentionally encountering eachother over time, perhaps realizing in some way the absurdity of their situation, but ultimately by the end of the story agreeing that they don't like eachother.> Integrity meeting chujin after she's grown a little, apologizing to chujin for endangering her daughter, chujin responds with an "oh">it's awkward for a moment but integrity says, I don't really have anything else to say. hopefully we wont have to see eachother again but, maybe we will anyways.>she goes to leave and chujin can't bring himself to apologize as well, he really never liked her, even if everything was messed up, but then a thought occurs before she gets too far away. he can't quite apologize for what happen, but he's sorry that things went this way.A story doesn't have to end in them becoming buddies, but maybe chance occurrence leads to them understanding eachother slightly, not exactly forgiving, but moving on for their own sakes and leaving part of the underground behind
>>3926380>But the ones that do attack you on sightLots of people attack you on first encounter.Doggo attacks on (lack of) sight, and he doesn't even know if you exist.>And that's completely setting aside that this is punishing modern humans for the sins of their fathers.Not really? That implies that Chujin had the integrity human killed explicitly for his project, and we know for a fact that wasn't the case. That aside, killing humans, whether it be for Chujin's project, or for breaking the barrier, isn't "punishing modern humans for the sins of their fathers.", it's the only choice they have.What, monsterkind should just lay down and die in the underground? How is that not just punishing modern monsterkind for their ancestor's failure to win the war? That's kinda the point of UTY, this isn't a "punishment" for anyone, it's just a shitty situation all around.>Didn't you say earlier that he would have had to kill her at some point either way for his plans?No, I said that if Axis hadn't killed them that he probably would've turned her into the custody of the royal guard, and then *they* would've killed them. He only made serious plans with the human soul once he actually got it, we know from the secret tape that he didn't even know what he was gonna do with it until after he made the decision to keep it for himself, their death wasn't planned.>she could still have these nightmares from his soul attacking hers in an attempt to make it submit to the absorption.But why? Actually absorbing a soul doesn't seem like that much of a production if we're looking at canon materials. Flowey doesn't have to put on a big show to absorb the six human souls, he just does it. Clover puts up resistance in UTY when Flowey tries to just take their soul, but Clover was *just* in their own body, whereas the integrity soul was supposedly in that jar for a while with minimal stimulation, they probably had a good amount of time to just stop thinking and all that.
could you retarded faggots take this somewhere else? we're not at bump limit yet
>>3926377Integrity just happens to see him one day out in public and recognizes him. She follows him, intent on getting revenge, and corners him when he's alone. Of course Chujin is going to take her seriously, a pissed off human absolutely can kill him, easily, and he's especially going to be scared once he realizes who she is. From there she confronts him about what he did to her. They have their heated back and forth, where Chujin fearing for his life and also fighting his own guilt, defends his actions and tries to lay the blame on her, while Integrity on some level realizes that she's the same as him. It ends with Chujin breaking down when he realizes all he accomplished was torturing a child for no real gain to anyone and killing himself. Then Integrity leaves, deciding she shouldn't kill him. Maybe partly because she thinks he deserves to live with his guilt, but also because she's been forced to introspect and has grown as a person from the exchange, deciding that endlessly chasing revenge is pointless, especially when the conflict is over. Meanwhile Chujin is left to cope with the truth and to try and move on from it.
>>3926383No.
>>3926378Its a gamble, except (you) aren't the one on the hook for all the debts (you)'re racking up.
>>3926383is fanfiction planning not on topic? we were having a lovely conversation about Racter earlier.
>>3926384>breaking downpersonally not a fan of him fully breaking down. he stomached a lot of bad shit before, I think his form of a "break down" would be delayed and probably holding his wife in the moonlight as he reflects on the surface he never thought he'd see her under, her fur practically glowing under the moons light, he doesn't even notice the tears in his eyes as Ceroba asks him whats wrong. he pulls her close and just tells her he's sorry, sorry for leaving her alone underground all those years as he chased phantoms of hope that never existed.
>>3926382>Doggo attacks on (lack of) sight, and he doesn't even know if you exist.He does assume you're a human though, and is actually trying to kill you. All the canine unit recognize you as human, likely by smell.>That's kinda the point of UTY, this isn't a "punishment" for anyone, it's just a shitty situation all around.They're still killing an innocent person. Even if you can argue the evil is necessary, you can't argue it isn't evil. And more importantly, Chujin's actions were all explicitly pointless, the barrier was broken without any involvement from him. So he really did just pointlessly add to her suffering and kill himself in the process.>. Flowey doesn't have to put on a big show to absorb the six human souls, he just does itBecause they didn't resist. They had all lost hope and given up by the time he got his hands on them. They'd been there for years. Integrity by comparison was fresh, and we know she was actively resisting, that's why Chujin died. If Integrity was resisting and Chujin kept attempting to absorb her, then that would mean that he was trying to force her to submit, even if he didn't see the mental battle himself.
>>3926386I will fight for Racters happiness. We should be somewhat tough right? just from the power of the fusion? We're getting that bird the monster pussy he deserves
>>3926383No, its on topic discussion. It belongs here.
>>3926384Mhm, I see.This is fucking stupid.So, Integrity, a murderer, who may have tried to kill Kanako twice, decides to hunt down a man who had accidentally had her killed in self-defense and accidentally mind-tortured her somehow, and debates killing him even though he was in now way the aggressor in their conflict, then has a "we're not so different you and I" moment even though their situations are nowhere near the same, Chujin gets upset when he realizes he (somehow?) accidentally mentally tortured this poor innocent child that killed like a dozen people nearly including his own daughter twice and then died trying to give monsterkind a fighting chance against a race that overpowers them so severely a literal fucking child armed with ballet shoes can slaughter a fucking town's worth of his own race, and then Integrity leaves deciding that Chujin should live the horrible guilt of having done basically nothing wrong except for maybe possible inflicting some amount of make believe suffering on a child that murdered a dozen people and tried to kill his daughter, and also endlessly chasing revenge is bad despite the fact that she's the one instigating this. This is fucking stupid. None of that shit makes any fucking sense, this is forced conflict for the sake of it and it's not even good conflict since one side is so very clearly in the wrong unless you rewrite the entire fucking context of UTY to absolutely force Chujin to be any kind of morally grey in this scenario specifically.I'm not saying Chujin didn't do anything wrong, but good god do you have to fucking stretch to make him anything but the objective good guy here.
>>3926392>objective good guy>kills himself accomplishing nothingnow this is the kind of hero fantasy I'm talking about.
>>3926388Well keep in mind, this is him being terrified for his life, after he had died a horrible death before, and after he had seen the person he's currently talking to brutally eviscerated by his robot, and after his wife had killed his daughter and a completely innocent (he definitionally had to be for the serum plan to be viable) third child to continue his research, which all turned out to be a dead end anyways since Asgore's plan was what lead to everyone getting freed, and that only happened because the humans are nice actually.Its this constant parade of things dogpiling him right after the shock of dying and being resurrected that get to him.
>>3926385>>3926387>>3926391its more like this stuff is better saved for the weekend threads
>>3926389>Chujin's actions were all explicitly pointless, the barrier was broken without any involvement from him.Chujin wasn't trying to break the barrier, he wanted to make monsterkind stronger so they'd stand a chance against mankind after the barrier fell.And honestly? If Frisk wasn't fucking Jesus, yeah, maybe monsterkind would've ended up needing that buff. The second war didn't happen, not that we see, but it's not like that was a given, the barrier was only broken through a literal act of a god, there's no way anyone could've predicted that things would've gone as they did.>So he really did just pointlessly add to her suffering and kill himself in the process.It only ended up being pointless because an actual Deus Ex Machina, and he didn't know that was happening to them, and also that probably didn't even happen anyway.>If Integrity was resisting and Chujin kept attempting to absorb her, then that would mean that he was trying to force her to submit, even if he didn't see the mental battle himself.Again, UTY implies he's trying to inject himself with their essence, not completely absorb the soul.
>>3926394I get that but with the way he hid things from ceroba, I think he has too much composure to break down on the spot. keep working with the idea if you like it, but personally I think it would be delayed at least some. Perhaps his pride at the very least keeping him standing until he's not in front of the human anymore.That may just be my interpretation of the man but he struck me as "composed until he literally could not stand anymore"
>>3926392You're just being deliberately reductive now. Whatever, no point in debating the subject if you're not gonna engage in good faith.
>>3926396what conversation IS appropriate to have then in these threads?
>>3926393His project didn't end up being seen through to the end, but he might've been onto something with his idea, or maybe not.In any case, the fact that he was actively trying to make things better for his people, never had any ill-intentions, even trying to *apprehend* the integrity human until Axis malfunctioned, is a pretty damning argument against "oh the person who slaughtered a dozen people and potentially tried to kill a child twice is just as bad as the guy who accidentally killed a murderous child while trying to apprehend them and then used their soul for the benefit of everyone around him".
>>3926396the energy will be gone by the time the weekend gets here. Discussion is spontaneous, you can't save it for later.
>>3926401I was just being silly as the thought struck me. He was as he said in his logs "trying to take things seriously" or however he said it but goodness did he sure flop and die.
>>3926399Motherfucker, you said the kid that murdered a dozen people and tried to kill a child twice is the same as a guy who tried to merely apprehend them even when they were on a fucking rampage and accidentally gave them some mental issues while trying to use their soul for the benefit of everyone around him, and I'm the one being reductive?Jesus Christ you people are something else.This is the exact kind of shit you'd see out of a r/UTY comic, good lord.
>>3926403>however he said it but goodness did he sure flop and die.Yeah, he fucked up, but that doesn't mean his intentions were somehow less good, just less well thought out.
>>3926397It doesn't really matter what he could have known at the time. This is explicitly him looking back in hindsight, and seeing that all his efforts were not only for nought, but actively immiserated him and everyone he cares about. His serum, from what he would know now, is nothing but a poison, since every time he's seen it tested, it just kills the subject. Had he gone for the safe option and just stuck to carpentry, he would never have died, Kanako would still be alive, he'd still be employed, and everyone would be much happier.>Again, UTY implies he's trying to inject himself with their essence, not completely absorb the soul.There can be an argument to be made that he was, so lets say for the sake of the story that he was. I'm not going to make the argument here, since you already had it with someone else earlier in the thread.
>>3926398Maybe he's so shaken by this that he's visibly tearing up and shaking, and even he doesn't realize it. Maybe Integrity sees herself in his confused terror and decides to let him go. And then after she leaves he breaks down, alone, in whatever secluded place she cornered him in.
>>3926407>he would never have died, Kanako would still be alive, he'd still be employed, and everyone would be much happier.Why the fuck is Chujin alive but Kanako isn't?And second, it would make sense for him to be upset and have problems with the fact that his serum didn't work and only ever backfired, that makes perfect sense, that's a good angle to work from, but having him be super upset about the suffering of a person he didn't even know who also killed a bunch of people and nearly killed his daughter is just fucking stupid.Give Chujin all the mental issues you want, you could definitely write some interesting takes on him finding out that what he did was all for nothing, but you expect me to believe he's gonna have a fucking breakdown when he hears he accidentally did psychic damage to somehow who fucking murdered a ton of people, again, nearly including his own daughter?And by the way, even if we were to argue that killing monsters in self-defense is justifiable, we know for a fact that the human struck for the second time entirely unprovoked, and there's no justifying attacking random innocent people for no reason.>There can be an argument to be made that he was, so lets say for the sake of the story that he was.Alright, let's say he's doing that.Then it doesn't matter!At that point, the soul is either sent off to Asgore with the intent of it being absorbed, in which case the integrity soul gets nightmares or whatever, or Chujin absorbs it for his project, in which case it gets nightmares.It's a catch-22, who gives a shit at that point?
>>3926404Anon, you're engaging with this discussion in anger and treating it like a battle that you have to win. That's not good for any parties involved, and its not good for thread quality either. There's no reason to get mad over this discussion.I've been trying to suggest a scenario in which Integrity wasn't just some cold blooded murderer, but instead a scared and confused child trapped in a world full of terrifying monsters, many of which want her dead, and all of which may as well be made of tissue paper to her.And I'm depicting Chujin as a man pushed well past his limits panicking and doing a number of ill advised and dangerous things because he felt like he had to.The reductivity is you refusing to see what I've been trying to say, then getting angry and insulting me.
>>3926404anon, I don't know if you'll believe me when I say I'm NTA, but yeah that's textbook reductive. not reductive of the events in the game, reductive of what the anon is saying. You clearly hate that anons ideas, and that anon is clearly exploring the idea, and sometimes when people explore new ideas, especially in a setting with so many questions unanswered, you're going to come up with some harebrained ideas, but getting beat over the head with how stupid it is while the idea gets boiled down isn't going to make them make better ideas. People only grow in story telling by exploring what works and what doesn't, honestly I don't think it's productive for you two to engage further but "autism beam noises" and all that.
>>3926410>I've been trying to suggest a scenario in which Integrity wasn't just some cold blooded murderer, but instead a scared and confused child trapped in a world full of terrifying monsters, many of which want her dead, and all of which may as well be made of tissue paper to her.isn't that just the premise of UT promise
>>3926410>I've been trying to suggest a scenario in which Integrity wasn't just some cold blooded murderer, but instead a scared and confused child trapped in a world full of terrifying monsters, many of which want her dead, and all of which may as well be made of tissue paper to her.>And I'm depicting Chujin as a man pushed well past his limits panicking and doing a number of ill advised and dangerous things because he felt like he had to.First of all, even when you described it it sounded dumb because it started with Integrity tracking Chujin down to fucking kill him, despite him only ever acting against them in self-defense, which is just an insane way to start things. it doesn't help that you then described Integrity as having a "we're not so different" moment, after having just cornered a man minding his own business with the intent to kill him. The rest of this scenario aside, you're insane if you expect me to take that seriously.Second, this all ties back into what I said earlier, which is that if you have to rewrite so much the story to make any of this happen, it's probably not a very good story to begin with if it requires that so many things be changed for it's sake.
>200 posts of this shitGod bless the anons trying to post anything else amidst this deluge of faggotry
>>3926415you're welcome to respond to my Racter Bravo post any time buddy. I'm already thinking about him doing the monkey, and all you've given me are your blessings?
>>3926409>Why the fuck is Chujin alive but Kanako isn't?Fine, lets say she's a pile of goop insteaed>when he hears he accidentally did psychic damage to somehow who fucking murdered a ton of people, again, nearly including his own daughter?In this scenario his torture of integrity and Integrity's killing of monsters are similar acts. Integrity was scared, didn't know her own strength, didn't know the rules of monster battles or sparing, and after a while just came to assume that all monsters meant her harm. Chujin is at first justified in trying to protect monsters from integrity, but continues on to kill her and torture her, even though that isn't his intent, out of a desire to develop his robot and his serum, so he can protect the monsters from future human attacks, completely ignorant to the fact that the monsters attacked her first, and that she believed she was acting in self defense.In this case both parties believe they are acting in self defense, and both are partially right and partially wrong.>It's a catch-22, who gives a shit at that point?how is it a catch 22?
>>3926415I'm just sad that we "wasted" a lot of lifetime of the thread, these threads used to last weeks to months, now they end pretty quickly since we end up hitting the bump limit in a day or two and then just wait until slowly we fall off the boardBut seeing active discussion on topic is nice regardless, better than just random shit or porn dumps
>>3926408maybe, but I think with valentines day coming up I'm just really attached to the idea of him holding Ceroba swaying in the moon. maybe I'll do a green this weekend about monsterwives in the moonlight. Part of me wants it to be about Chujin and Ceroba, and the other wants Anon and Ceroba. Moonlight itself is so beautiful, I should take my telescope out this weekend, maybe it will be inspiring.oh never mind it's nearly a new moon.maybe I'll put it to vote
>>3926417>but continues on to kill her and torture herExcept that doesn't work, because the scenario hinges on Chujin not actually knowing that the integrity soul is experiencing that, whereas it's pretty easy to know whether or not you've killed someone, even if you don't know your own strength compared to them, especially if you can see them turning to dust before your every eyes.>how is it a catch 22?In the specific post I was replying to, they were making the argument that Chujin was trying to fully, for real, absorb the human's soul.I accepted those terms, because if you think about it carefully, it makes no difference.Think about it, either they get absorbed by Asgore and get magic nightmares or whatever, or they get absorbed by Chujin and get magic nightmares.The ending's the same no matter what once they're killed, so why does it matter who's actually doing it? It's not some personal vendetta either way, no matter who absorbs them their suffering would just be a side effect of their soul being used as a means to an end, so why is *Chujin* so bad for doing it? What about any of this makes *him* so bad, if it was already going to happen anyway and he's still doing it for the benefit of those around him?
>>3926417Anon I know you're trying to come up with story Ideas, but I think that anon hates story ideas that don't line up with his understanding of the canon. You are engaging with someone that hates the angle you are working with. you are both guilty of please consider this.
>>3926415I wish I was autistic enough to really get into morality discussions about this game. It feels like a court case at points. Then again, maybe I should be grateful to not be quite that autistic. I can just skim the posts while doing other things.>>3926418I see your point but the last couple of threads have been record-setting. Even if a few anons miss the thread because of sliding, there will still be lots of discussion for other stuff.>>3926419Chujin has suffered a lot in this thread. He ought to have something nice for once.
>>3926413>e it started with Integrity tracking Chujin down to fucking kill him, despite him only ever acting against them in self-defense,From her perspective, she only ever acted in self defense and he was the aggressor. To her this is like running into a bear cub by accident, then the mother bear charges you, so you shoot it to keep it from killing you. Only instead, it mauled her to death and ate her, and now she's come back from the dead and is seeking revenge.> as having a "we're not so different" moment, after having just cornered a man minding his own business with the intent to kill him. Its not ridiculous because its very similar to what happened to her. She attacked something that was important to him while fearing for her life, then he, fearing for his life and the lives of fellow monsters killed her. Its only after she sees how similarly scared and confused he is, that she realizes how pointless and harmful this violence is.> if you have to rewrite so much the story Most of what I'm doing is going off of common fan interpretations. You just keep calling them rewrites because you insist your fan interpretations are indisputable fact, which is another reductive debate tactic, all too common in deltarune and undertale discussion on 4chan.
>>3926421Actually I can be fine with stories that don't adhere to canon 100%, they just have to not be so completely asinine and for the sake of dumb forced drama with no substance that has everyone involved acting wildly out of character.So, the same reason most reasonable people here hate Haishin.
>>3926415I'm still looking for design tips on how to draw a shoebill in the Undertale artstyle.
>>3926425>they just have to not be so completely asinine and for the sake of dumb forced drama with no substance that has everyone involved acting wildly out of character.have you considered, instead of just telling anon he's an idiot over and over again, giving your suggestions on how to make it good without abandoning everything about it? Because the anon has already laid out some ground ideas basically making this an au, and is clearly just trying to explore concepts, even reshaping it a few times as you've been honestly, on the attack.
>>3926426I think if you shared more info on that more people would chime inLike what type of character you are making, what role and what project
>>3926379More like he's been possessed by Johnny Bravo>Oh, don't you worry little bird buddy. I'll make sure you find a little birdy mama of your own. It won't take long with my... sky high charm. HOO! HA! HAH!
>>3926426I was reading this shitshow and forgot to reply to you, I read that they are "motionless predators" so maybe put some amount of focus on the things gaze? it sounds like it would be intense to come face to face with and a lot of intensity is projected from the eyes.
>>3926429yes, this is the good stuff. >now hey look here my funky feathered friend, don't get all down in the dumps cause you didn't score, there's always more fish monsters in the seaJohnny isn't a bad person at the end of the day, and while Racter would get pulled into absolute hijinks, I'd like to think that Johnny's company would be reassuring in a way for him
>>3926420>Except that doesn't work, because the scenario hinges on Chujin not actually knowing that the integrity soul is experiencing that, whereas it's pretty easy to know whether or not you've killed someone, even if you don't know your own strength compared to them, especially if you can see them turning to dust before your every eyes.Chujin still killed her and is actively harming her out of ignorance and fear. Even if Integrity's ignorance was a different ignorance, it being her ignorance of the spare mechanic and the fact that not all monsters want to kill her, she still killed them because she was scared and ignorant, which is the same reason Chujin did those horrible things to her.Its makes Chujin bad because he did it. If he hadn't then Asgore would be the bad one.
>>3926424>she only ever acted in self defense and he was the aggressor.We literally hear from Chujin that the second time the human striked, everyone was just minding their business until she appeared.This is like if I charged a bear cub out of nowhere, then got attacked by the mother, and considered myself the victim.>Its not ridiculous because its very similar to what happened to her.Is it? She attacked someone that was important to him, despite being completely unprovoked in that instance, ran off into Waterfall, and then got killed by Axis on accident, since Chujin just wanted her apprehended.By contrast, in this scenario, Chujin is minding his own business walking home, when Integrity stalks him into an alleyway and threatens to kill him completely unprompted.How about this, if Chujin had been the one to run into Integrity without them seeing him first, would his response have been to track them down and kill them in an alleyway himself?If yes, then your interpretation of these characters is unsalvageably stupid. If no, then they aren't the same, are they?>Its only after she sees how similarly scared and confused he is, that she realizes how pointless and harmful this violence is.So only after stalking a man into an alley to kill him does she realize that violence is bad, that maybe she isn't so different from the guy who was literally just minding his own business just now?>Most of what I'm doing is going off of common fan interpretations.Fan interpretations that outright ignore things the game states, such as Integrity's second attack being unprovoked and not in self-defense.
>>3926419I could see him coming home to her and collapsing in her arms, and crying for the first time in his adult life. Ceroba would be in a unique position to comfort him, since she's likely had similar experiences with Clover and Kanako (even if Kanako wasn't mad at her, just really extra pathetic).
>>3926418Seeing complaints like that anon's really feel like that "My cup is too full, my food too tasty, my plate too bountiful" meme. There's no way this level of activity is going to last, so we should just enjoy it while we can.
>>3926427>giving your suggestions on how to make it good without abandoning everything about it?I did, it was up there a ways back.The idea was having Chujin be upset and introspective about something that makes sense, like the fact that the project he dedicated (and inadvertently ended) his life to ended up not panning out, while simultaneously causing active harm to people he cared about along the way.I think it could be a really interesting story, taking a look at a man who died thinking he was on the trail of his species' salvation, only for him to come back and see that not only was it all pointless, but he did active harm instead.That could be interesting, and it would make sense since the serum project was literally what most of his character was about.
>>3926434I'll take it but I don't want it to be little bitch tears, it's very important to me that he hugs her tightly before she realizes he's crying, her being completely caught off guard and then she hears the shuddering breaths. I don't know I just don't like the effeminate chujin some people try to portray. he was a man of action in his life, even in his break down I imagine some amount of intensity to how he seeks comfort
>>3926415>lightner spamtonjust like shattered decade...
>>3926421Yes, I know Mr Spock's (assuming that's who it is, sorry if I'm besmirching the good name of anon or Mr Spock) vulkan dna makes it hard for him to accept the illogical and emotional nature of IMAGINation, but I was hoping I could get through to his human side.Regardless, whoever you are that I'm debating with. I want you to know I have no ill will towards you, and respect your passion, even if you and I disagree on the subject of this story.
>>3926432>Chujin still killed her and is actively harming her out of ignorance and fear.But not intentionally or knowingly, whereas the Integrity soul was definitely knowingly killing people, even if it was self-defense in their eyes.>Its makes Chujin bad because he did it. If he hadn't then Asgore would be the bad one.Still doesn't make them the same. What Integrity did, they did out of their own interest and ignorance. What Chujin did, he did for the sake of the people around him, even knowing it could potentially hurt him. Even if it hurt the integrity soul somehow, what he actually did it for still matters.
>>3926436I think that's good, and could be incorporated into what anon wants where his idea of integrity is not the unrepentant murderer. I think they even established well up above that the feeling is more important than whether or not it fits into canon. could not the possibility in this scenario that he harmed a person who was more of a victim than he expected them to be tie into his own realization of his failures to push forward for his species? is there no way these ideas could work together?
>>3926419>and the other wants Anon and Ceroba.God, please.
>>3926439So that name's stuck, huh?You know what, out of respect for Mr.Nimoy, who I presume was not as big of a dickhead as I am, I humbly request you choose something else.
the only canon info we have on integrity is that she likely has killed monsters (equipping the tutu and shoes mentions frisk feels violent, the dust thing even if there is mixed info on if its regular dust or monster dust) and the secret echo flower in the tutu room which has the only dialogue we have of a previous human, where she was fleeing from something (pic related)so saying that she actively and intentionally hunted monsters I think is a stretch, she probably just got scared and attacked everything on sight in self defense, sometimes killing some monsters by accidentdon't make integrity a literal psychopath like that defiant hope fic did
>>3926443I've heard he was a good man, I'm not that anon but I don't think you are a bad person or anything silly like that. I do think that you do get too heated at points in arguments though and have a habit of escalating.I wouldn't have THREADS any other way than to have each and everyone of you autistic fucks here with me.The act of creating makes you and the people around you better, and this is one of the few places on this site I see so much of it.
>>3926442>>3926422I may put it to vote, or I may just go full retard and do both and handle it differently for each. It depends on how much the dark spirit of uty grips my soul. I'm thinking a lot about Cerobas fur glowing in the moonlight.
>>3926441You know what?Maybe I could see him regretting his actions in a world where everything he did was for naught, and where his project only brought pain and calamity, but having a breakdown in an alley over it, specifically primarily over what he accidentally did to Integrity?I'm sorry, I just can't see it, I really can't, that makes no sense to me.Alright, look, I've definitely gotten a bit more heated over this than I had any right to, both for my own reasons and because I happen to be a massive stickler for lore and continuity.I'm not the canon police, as much as I might forget that myself, but I just really don't like this interpretation of things. One because, again, issues, specifically when it comes to scared and traumatized children (which it only occurred to me recently was probably a subconscious factor in me arguing about all that "redemption" stuff for geno Clover in that one argument, though I maintain that trauma is no excuse in their situation and in my own), and second, because I just feel like this is kind of a shallow concept that doesn't really work when you look further into it, it requires a lot of concessions to be made here for both characters that I think makes them way less interesting than they could be even if you still wanted to have them have some kind of post-resurrection confrontation with each other.I don't know, I'm sorry.I'll back down.
>>3926444always kinda found it strange that a virtue as outwardly moral as integrity was made a violent soul in yellow, but those details make it make sensehow would (You) depict integrity as a virtue?
>>3926447>It depends on how much the dark spirit of uty grips my soul.Ah, you again.How've you been?I'm sure you've already gathered how I'm doing, based on this mess I've made over here.
>>3926433>We literally hear from Chujin that the second time the human striked, everyone was just minding their business until she appeared.Snowdin is in the middle of the forest, maybe she was running through the woods and couldn't see far ahead of her, and happened to come out of the trees right where Kanako was playing, and of course the monsters there are going to jump in to protect the children from that obviously aggressive human. To go with the bear cub analogy, people really do just stumble on them sometimes, and from the bear's perspective that human really did just come out of nowhere to attack them.>Chujin is minding his own business walking home, when Integrity stalks him into an alleyway and threatens to kill him completely unprompted.At this point its not unprompted, she has a reason to hate him specifically and to want revenge. He killed her and put her through hell.>if Chujin had been the one to run into Integrity without them seeing him first, would his response have been to track them down and kill them in an alleyway himself?The point here is that she doesn't really know what she wants to do with him, just that she hates him and wants to do *something* to get revenge. The same way Chujin hadn't really put much serious thought into what he'd do with the human once he cornered them with his robot.>that maybe she isn't so different from the guy who was literally just minding his own business just now?From her perspective, he was that horrible monster that hunted her down, killed her, and tortured her soul.>such as Integrity's second attack being unprovoked and not in self-defense.That could just be how the monsters interpreted it. They aren't omniscient.This whole thing is about playing with people's perspectives and limited points of view. Everyone thinks they're the victim and the other guy is the villain. And sometimes a conflict can be averted if both sides learn what the other is thinking.
>>3926451Your reply's too late, I surrender.I still disagree, but I've realized way too late that it basically doesn't matter and none of this means anything.Huh, now isn't that ironic?
>>3926440>But not intentionally or knowingly, whereas the Integrity soul was definitely knowingly killing peopleIts different, but still similar enough to make a connection and draw a comparison.>What Chujin did, he did for the sake of the people around himin group preference is still some part self interest. Sure its more selfless than pure self preservation, but its not that far removed from it, and Chujin is also a grown man whom more can be expected of while Integrity is a child.
>>3926448>but having a breakdown in an alley over it, specifically primarily over what he accidentally did to Integrity?>I'm sorry, I just can't see it, I really can't, that makes no sense to me.I personally agree that I just can't see Chujin going that far into a breakdown like that. I'd give it a read and a critique if anon wrote it like that, but I personally can't see the build up that would get him like that. aside from that though, Regret is a theme I personally think about a lot. Isn't "regret" one of the correct answers for "what can change a man" in planescape? I personally would want to see a story like that burn more slowly than him suddenly breaking down, because I think regret is something that burns slowly, over months and years. I have a lot of regret myself, decades wasted, and so I like to think of what could make a man like him think over his past, but when I think of regret, it's not to dwell on it, its to see how it can push you forward. i'm not the anon you had much of the conversation with, but the music I'm listening to changed "moods" and it got me really thinking on the regret aspect.
>>3926450well-ish. I have been very sick and accomplished nothing after I finished my last story this week, but I'm mostly well now and if I'm going to be lonely this weekend, It will be in the imagined arms of the fox or bird. Since I'm not allowed to have either of them in life, I will think about the both of them. the mouthful of feathers cracked me up
>>3926456I can see regret being a decent theme to go off of, god knows I have a ton of it for how relatively young I am, but I generally think it would be more subtle than what the other anon wrote, not something that would just cause him to completely collapse in on himself like that.I dunno, even if Integrity would harbor a personal grudge and animosity for Chujin, I just don't feel like Chujin would crumble like that.I don't really have a super apt comparison in mind for how the two might act, other than the one thing I never shut the fuck up about and should give a rest, but generally speaking I just don't think I see an encounter between the two of them going the way that anon wrote.
>>3926428I have to be careful because of spoilers, but generally I want the character to be this intense sort of paternalistic authority figure. He's quiet and slow moving, but just a stare from him is enough to convince you that you don't want any trouble. And he's big too, not quite Zartlet size, but approaching it. Though he'd be slimmer due to being a stork.>>3926430My main focus is his gaze and his looming posture. My question is how do I do those things in Undertale's ms paint scrimblo game style.
>>3926457>the mouthful of feathers cracked me upHeh, glad you enjoyed it.>I'm mostly well now and if I'm going to be lonely this weekend, It will be in the imagined arms of the fox or bird. Since I'm not allowed to have either of them in life, I will think about the both of them.Ah, same. I was wanting to get an image done for Valentines, of a mostly-not-dressed Ceroba lying seductively on a bed asking the viewer if they're ready to celebrate Valentine's with her, but I'm afraid my partaking in this thread has caused me to lose quite a bit of time, and I currently have a pounding migraine making it hard for me to think straight at all, so I'm not sure I'll be able to have it out for the special day.
>>3926431Racter does seem like the type to fold at the kind of unbreaking confidence Johnny exudes
>>3926437I was thinking more of a strong man finally pushed past his breaking point. They're not the tears of a little bitch, but of a man whose destroyed himself by trying to be strong for others so long. This is him exposing his weakness to Ceroba because he trusts her and he needs help.
>>3926458>but generally speaking I just don't think I see an encounter between the two of them going the way that anon wrote.understandable, what about fight or flight (I don't know if monsters even have this). Chujin never got the "chance" to be cornered by a human himself, if a human had him cornered, and was angry, hell just for the sake of it if the human was even "somewhat justified in their anger"(and I know I'm taking into consideration your thoughts on integrity, but for the thought of thinking of how chujin would react). I just noticed my words are a jumble but the question is, how would he react in that case? I don't personally think he's above fear, he's emotive enough, but would it be like the staredown between predator and prey? what if the human didn't intend to kill him but chujin knows damn well how badly this could go. I'm rambling, but how would he handle confrontation where he's on the back foot.
>>3926462>but of a man whose destroyed himself by trying to be strong for others so long. relatable >This is him exposing his weakness to Ceroba because he trusts her and he needs help. relationship goals
Anon, the one who wrote that thing that I called fucking stupid?I would like to formally apologize.I got heated beyond reason and was unfairly mean to you, even as far as is usual fare for these threads, and much further than I try to restrain myself to.I disagree with your ideas for multitudinous reasons, but that in and of itself was no reason to act as I did towards you.I understand that I have forfeited the right for you to think of me as anything other than an unreasonable dickhead, as I have showcased myself today to be none other than exactly that.Again, I apologize, and will leave you in peace.
>>3926443How about JJ Abrams movie Spock? He did a lot of angry yelling and was generally less classy than Nemoy. Its either that or Chujin torture anon.Or I guess I could just go back to calling you anon.
>>3926462>>3926465so maybe if you were going to do this, it would be important to have some build up, because I think him just breaking on the spot would be a bit...but maybe show him taking back on his lifestyle of trying to carry the entirety of mt ebott on his back after he came back. understandable stresses from managing new life on the surface for his family, his guilt of not being there for them due to his own death (or was this a world where he never died), his assumed fears that war could still happen any moment (actually reasonable even if it doesn't canonically happen), and maybe even his fear that a confrontation with a human gone wrong could lead to said war?if you want to sell that the man breaks, you need to pile up the weights on top of him so that the reader really sees the break and believes it.
>>3926468>How about JJ Abrams movie Spock?Meh, that's a little long.I could actually think of a decent name for myself if we're going for fictional characters I act like, given how completely fixated on the idea of perfect scenarios and adherence to certain rules I've shown myself to be, but I don't think I really get to choose my own name around here.
>>3926449Ironically, I think Chujin has a lot of integrity. He sticks by his principals and ideals until it kills him, even when he really should have known better.
>>3926460>so I'm not sure I'll be able to have it out for the special day.I look forward to it whenever it arrives. I can not promise that roba in the moonlight will happen in time, but it's now added to my schedule of "things I'm committed to".
>>3926457Oh, still think you'll take green requests again any time soon?I had an idea for a Ceroba/Anon comfort one, along with a few others if you're still interested.
>>3926474I will very soon, while I was stuck with a fever, the ideas for all the parts I was mentally stuck on for that oldentale story came to me, I was going to try to get the first chapter actually done tonight but I greatly enjoy thread and was immersed in it. I realized afterwards that the solutions to my issues were simple and now I just need to get the wording down and probably fuck it all up anyways, but I'll have fun doing it at leastif I get the moonlight things done this weekend I'll post for requests by Sunday.
>>3926448>but having a breakdown in an alley over it, specifically primarily over what he accidentally did to Integrity?What if Integrity cornered him, verbally laid into him for all that he did to her, all the while Chujin stood his ground and defended himself, but all of his arguments fell apart because all of his justifications proved to be unfounded, and then Integrity left him, saying she was done with the violence, but she wanted him to know that he's a monster in every sense of the word, then she leaves, afterwards Chujin manages to make it home, before collapsing, the integrity confrontation just being the straw that finally broke the camel's back?Optionally, what if Integrity hadn't actually confronted him, and that was the piece of integrity permanently merged with his soul via the injection doing it, and she knew all of his insecurities because she was literally in his head. That part's just optional though.
>>3926452fair enough, I thank you for the opposition. When its well written it actually does help me to improve my own position, and if nothing else helps pass the time.
>>3926477nta, but I think it's even more important that you lay on the other things that are already stressing him leading up to it then. there's satisfaction in a sick sense when you have the "straw that broke the camels back" if the other straws are visible
>>3926463>I don't personally think he's above fear, he's emotive enough, but would it be like the staredown between predator and prey? what if the human didn't intend to kill him but chujin knows damn well how badly this could go. Alright, time for me to talk about the thing I never shut the fuck up about.I have racked my brain to think of how I could see Chujin responding to Integrity in this context, with him having the full context behind why Integrity did what they did, and why they're doing what they're doing now, and I have only one comparison I can find.You ever watch Tron: Legacy?To keep things short, despite them not really having a relationship, I could sorta see Chujin responding to Integrity the same way Kevin Flynn responds to CLU's anger about what he did to him.Just, understanding. Accepting that they both didn't know enough about what they were doing, but they both tried to do what they thought was right anyway, and this brought them into conflict.I think Chujin would apologize to Integrity for what he did, as Kevin Flynn did with CLU, and I think if Integrity was as upset as we've established, they'd probably follow it up with kicking Chujin in the chest like CLU did.From there, maybe Integrity wouldn't be able to bring themself to kill Chujin and the similarities would continue until this comparison stops making what little amount of sense it makes already, but who knows.I don't.
>>3926478Oh, is that you, the one I was arguing with?If so, I would like to direct your attention to my apology I've written here.>>3926467
>>3926458Other anon here, I kinda have to agree myself that its out of character for Chujin to just crumble like that. Thinking about it more, I remember how often I compare Chujin to Walter White (don't worry I won't spoil anything) and I think maybe he would stay calm until he gets home then lash out and smash some random object or electronic device, then crumble after his anger has cooled and Ceroba comes it and starts asking what's wrong, since that feels kinda like an interaction that would happen with Walter (basic characterization stuff is not a spoiler)
>>3926480>Just, understanding. Accepting that they both didn't know enough about what they were doing, but they both tried to do what they thought was right anyway, and this brought them into conflict.I have not seen it, but I'm a fan of interactions between opposing sides like that. I know that it's not common, but when there's that moment of "understanding" that doesn't fix things, it just is, it feels meaningful. Like there's something important about the human experience cooked into it.I may check that movie out but I have a hard time sitting down to watch movies.
>>3926467its fine, we're all autists here. Just the other day I was doing the same thing in a discussion about UTY's ending.
>>3926471I'll just call you anon, like everyone else.
>>3926484I can send you the exact scene I'm talking about if you don't mind spoilers.I myself really like this scene mostly because I'm a big sappy bastard and I think CLU deserved better and all that, but also because father-son stuff gets to me more than I'm usually willing to admit.But yeah, I could sorta see it like that, albeit a bit less personal. One side understanding the other, and accepting their feelings, both of their feelings, even if they know there's nothing they can really do to make up for what happened between the two of them.
>>3926487...Oh god, tell me I wasn't involved in that one too.
>>3926476>My retard argument has delayed the fic I was eagerly awaitingmy hubris has claimed me
>>3926488Yeah, that's for the best.I figure I'll earn a name eventually, for better or worse.
>>3926476Sounds good, I look forward to seeing more from you.
>>3926491consider it this way, so long as I do not die, the fic will arrive. If the fic does not arrive, I have died.In either eventuality I was glad to be here.
>>3926490I don't know, were you citing Halo Reach as an example?
>>3926489I want to hold off on watching the scene directly because, while i have a hard time watching movies, it sounds like something I'd like.sometimes there aren't happy endings, there are just endings and we have to make peace with that, and that's kind of what that whole situation makes me think of. I think that an encounter between clover and Asgore could go something like this following a pacifist revival. maybe. I don't see Clover ever being buddy buddy with Asgore, but the best peace they could hope for between them may be something like this.
>200 postswhat the hell happened while i was asleep?
>>3926495You've gotta be kidding me.Oh my god, twice in a row, fucking hell.We'll never see eye to eye on anything, will we?Ah, god damn it.
>>3926499I told you anon, Autism beam noises
>>3926459Since the thread has slowed down I'm gonna samefag in case anyone missed this post.I'll add that the character is named Old Bill. That's about all I'm at liberty to share at this time. Any design tips would be appreciated.
>>3926497Dude, don't even worry about it, it's so not worth looking into.
>>3926461I want to see soul Bravo trying to cheer racter up, and him giving the closest thing we've seen to a smile on racter after THEY BOND AS BROTHERS. I'm going to remember this, one day when I have oldentale in my hands, the first time I am faced with a decision, I'll think "what would Soul Bravo do"
>>3926497Sorry Mr Anon had an argument with some people about Chujin, and then I joined it right as it was dying down.We've run out of things to say on the subject.
>>3926497autism and then also a conversation about Racter.
>>3926500Well, fuck me.You know what, this is too funny for me to get seriously mad at, and this migraine is making me lightheaded anyway.Next time we think we recognize each other, how about we just give each other a shout, save ourselves some time, eh?I think we're so diametrically opposed to one another that we may genuinely experience antimatter-matter annihilation if we ever touched.
>>3926503I will remember this post while developing the game, and maybe possibly think "what would soul bravo anon want to choose" when writing dialogue choices for the game, maybe.
>>3926506the problem is anon, it's not just the two of us, there's several of us, and we all keep getting intertwined in this autism because we are just too passionate about things. I stayed out of it for the most part this time, the wonders of anonymity.
>>3926499>>3926506It is pretty funny. You wanna know something else, we've had other arguments related to either of those things too.
>>3926507blessings upon you anon, the thought alone made me smile.
>>3926509*other arguments unrelatedits late
>>3926510I didn't even remember the name of this one off character an anon made up in a thread, but you saved my drawing of him. I'm honored.
>>3926496>I want to hold off on watching the scene directly because, while i have a hard time watching movies, it sounds like something I'd like.Fair enough, let me know what you think of it whenever you get around to watching it.I'd say you should potentially watch the original Tron beforehand, but it's not really required reading in any sense.There's also a scene in Tron: Ares that I think was pretty good, similar interesting emotional tone to the confrontation with CLU in a sense, but I can't really go into the specifics about it without spoiling anything major about either Ares or Legacy.>I don't see Clover ever being buddy buddy with Asgore, but the best peace they could hope for between them may be something like this.Hm, maybe. Honestly, I feel like Asgore might be the one who's more emotional about things at the end of the day, once everything is said and done, but I can't exactly see either of them in CLU's role.
>>3926509Wait, what other arguments have we had before?
>>3926508I know, but why am I the constant? I almost never see anyone else embroiled in multi-hour long arguments, it's always me versus someone else, I never get to be spectator.
>>3926513is ares decent as a movie?
>>3926508>>3926506I'm even confident that you're not the only one making points I'm arguing against when I do join the autism fests. The threads have been lively lately, I have absolutely no basis for this but I suspect the threads have upwards of 50 people in them including lurkers, since statistically there are more lurkers than posters. or maybe I'm undershooting it. I feel good knowing this time I wasn't the reason this thread exploded in posts, but it's good seeing it lively.
>>3926514The one about CluJin and that one where we had a space battlers argument over Oldentale.
>>3926515the secret is to put the fucking bottle down anon
>>3926512I forgot the name but I think he was supposed to be a hypothetical kanako brother.regardless, I save your art because it also puts a smile on my face.
>>3926515not him, but I'm in most of these too. The only ones I always skip out on are the Clover being reborn ones, mainly because the discussion disinterests me (no shade on the people who like it though, or the concept itself. I do like the design).
>>3926516Yes.I know everyone ragged on it for the crime of having Jared Leto in it, but in all honesty, I think the movie is a lot better and has a lot more going on that people gave it credit for.While it does a handful of things that I think were mistakes (if I'm being honest the biggest issue with the story is the fact that it isn't a direct sequel to the events of Legacy but is otherwise a good story in it's own right), I think the movie overall was very enjoyable and good by itself, and it has one scene in particular that makes me feel things, largely because of my aforementioned vulnerability to father-son stuff and other sappy bullshit, though it is much less direct in Ares.
>>3926520>I forgot the name Its on the bottom right
>>3926518>The one about CluJinOkay, yes, that's obviously me.>that one where we had a space battlers argument over Oldentale.I...I don't recognize this one. Are you sure this one was me, what was this argument about?
>>3926523that's funny, I didn't really make a habit of actually reading the filename.
>>3926519You know, I don't drink, but I get the feeling that if I did, I'd probably drink myself to death in an afternoon.
>>3926525were you not the guy saying that the monsters should just drop rocks on the humans from orbit with Upside Town's reverse gravity?
>>3926528>were you not the guy saying that the monsters should just drop rocks on the humans from orbit with Upside Town's reverse gravity?Oh god damnit, yes, that's me, I just didn't recognize it the way you described it.Fuck, I've got a hell of a reputation around here, haven't I?
>>3926528fairly hard to do that actually. the body is very good at keeping itself from dying to that until you've been drinking for a long time and a lot. to keep it on topic, I wonder how monsters handle their alcohol not being as physical.
>>3926530Holy shit did I respond to my own post on accidnet?Jesus christ I need sleep.
>>3926531>fairly hard to do that actually. the body is very good at keeping itself from dying to that until you've been drinking for a long time and a lot. Oh trust me, I'd find a way.
>>3926530I assume you replied to the wrong post there and meant to reply to me. Anyways, I just think our brains have opposite chirality and that puts us in constant conflict.
>>3926534>I assume you replied to the wrong post there and meant to reply to me.Yes, yes I did do that.God, today was a mess.>Anyways, I just think our brains have opposite chirality and that puts us in constant conflict.Yeah, something like that. I've noticed that any opinions I have on anything whatsoever almost always exist in direct conflict with everyone else's opinions, no matter how much that doesn't make sense in a given context.I think I brought it up earlier, but it's like how I'll vehemently fight against the idea of geno Clover getting to live a normal life in any capacity after what they did, but will also turn around and say that I think CLU should've been allowed to take the Rectifier out of the Grid and begin his war with the entire planet regardless of the consequences for the human race.Ah, moral flexibility.
>>3926536What's funny is our discussions have actually served as inspiration for my writing. That argument about utilitarian ethics helped to serve and inspiration for how I should write a character in my game.
>>3926538Wait a fucking minute, which dev are you?Don't tell me I got into another argument with Oldentale Anon, I swear.
>>3926536nta butI have an extremely strong view of "Everyone deserves a second chance" that has run me into trouble in life, but maybe a justice themed game brought me here even if yellow was kind of messy at the actual justice theming.I'm aware that not everyone is capable of changing to meet that second chance, but it's boiled into my very bones. It's absolutely led me into an autism argument on the topic before. Vash was my favorite character growing up incidentally So at the very least it's usually been for different reasons you find yourself opposed.>>3926533the body quite literally does everything it can to stop you until you build up a lot of tolerance. I was working my way towards that tolerance before I quit, and it's something else how your body really fights to keep you alive. Ceroba doesn't even seem to drink quite enough to be on that path yet
Oldentale anon, the more I see about Racter, the more I wanma cheer on that poor little guy. Seeing these talks of Bravo Soul cracked me up and I hope whenever you finish the game or make it playable we can actually get along with him.Dude sounds like he could use "good" company (debatable if anons here can be qualified as good).I also need to continue writing my own story, hopefully I'll have another update in the following days.
>>3926541>I have an extremely strong view of "Everyone deserves a second chance"I personally think second chances have a limit, and once you cross a line, there's no going back.It's not even just about killing people necessarily, it depends on what you're killing them *for*, the end for which killing is your means.I think in geno Clover's case, or in the case of that other Anon's idea specifically, I just feel like the fact that they were killing tons of people for no real reason means that this isn't even a case where the road to hell was paved with good intentions, it was just suffering for suffering's sake, and I find such a thing unforgivable.I also don't like the trauma angle of it specifically, but again, that's my own issues for me to work out.>the body quite literally does everything it can to stop you until you build up a lot of tolerance.Jokes on you, I'll speedrun liver failure by drinking straight ethanol, gotem
>>3926540I thought that would have been obvious, since I was the one that had that Upside Town argument with you, unless you thought that was someone else who just had intimate knowledge of Oldentale's lore for some reason.
>>3926545>I thought that would have been obvious, since I was the one that had that Upside Town argument with you, unless you thought that was someone else who just had intimate knowledge of Oldentale's lore for some reason.I'm tired and the pieces only just clicked for me as I typed that.Anyway, sup.How's your night been?Mine's been stupid.
>>3926543thanks, anon. It means a lot knowing people care about my autistic furry vaporware.
>>3926544Denaturat is the way to go, anon. don't
>>3926546I actually enjoyed my night. Somehow I managed to keep calm and have fun throughout the whole argument. Did some art earlier, but wasn't happy with it.
You know, sometimes, I think about those dreams I had, where Ceroba told me that I'd fully wake up in her world once I find whatever it is I'm supposed to be doing here and finish it.Sometimes I wonder if it's real.Sometimes I wonder how much she can see of what I'm doing here at any given moment.Holy fuckin' shit I hope she can't see any of this, could you imagine? Good god.
>>3926544>Jokes on you, I'll speedrun liver failure by drinking straight ethanol, gotemwell, you got me there I'll admit>I personally think second chances have a limit, and once you cross a line, there's no going back.and I understand that, and it's more logical to be like that, but it's down to the very bones for me. it's far too late and I'm not meaning it as an argument, just a firm feeling in how I approach life. I'm very capable of hating, but I truly want everyone to have a second chance. I however don't think that most people will do anything different if they are given a second chance. But that's details and details. Mostly just illustrating that it's not just some wall between you and everyone else causing the autism arguments, everyone just has their own different autism hotbuttons.
>>3926549I imagine you will find it very funny to know that I was genuinely pacing my room thinking of what to say at one point during that whole train wreck.
>>3926550new green unlocked, Ceroba teases anon for his internet arguments.
>>3926547I saw someone write in the thread earlier during the Bravo soul talks thst other monsters woukd try and lill Racter for his soul. Is that gonna actually be a thing or anon just spitballed ideas?
>>3926552I gathered as much. Don't feel too bad, you've had me feeling the same way before. Like any time that UTY ending argument happens.
>>3926553You can't fucking do this to me please I beg you
>>3926556>ceroba sees anon, frustrated at his computer and gets a sly grin as she creeps up behind him.
>>3926554Before I answer, I'm curious what you think.
>>3926555Well, at least it's been mutual before.Look, if you want my greatest argument for UTY's ending, just go listen to "The Will Of One" by The Protomen, I imagine that's basically what was playing in Clover's head when they decided to give up their soul.
>>3926557>Her grin drops as she sees he's furiously arguing about her dead first husband, whom all the other anonymous imageboard users seem to be intimately familiar with
>>3926560>>3926557>>3926556I'm fucking dying laughing here god damnit
>>3926560I have genuinely looked up at the sky, at nothing in particular, and quietly said that I had a good explanation for why I was thinking some very specific things about Chujin before.I may be too far gone.
>>3926559I was gonna say I listened to The Protomen while writing some scenes for Oldentale, but no that was The Megas. Its weird how there are two Mega Man rock opera bands.
>>3926557Honestly I wouldn't mind it too much if she just lifted me out of my chair to get me out of an argument, that sounds nice.
>>3926562Anon is two weeks away from manifesting a tulpaAlso, what things?
>>3926563Huh, that is weird.Here's the song by the way, I was listening to it on loop for like four hours earlier today during the argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm2ibnzM1YI
>>3926556>You come home from work, tired and exhausted but the silver lining is that at least you get to spend the rest of the evening with your beautiful vixen wife.>Making your way through the house, you find no trace of Ceroba anywhere. Strange, but not entirely worrying as she could be out in the garden tending to her plants.>You reach your 'office' room and as you go past it, your blood runs cold as you hear soft giggling.>You open the door and to your horror, see your wife browsing the thread you frequent. You realize you actually forgot to turn your pc off in the morning before leaving to work.>Her ears flick, catching on that you have arrived and when she turns towards you, your heart drops as she has the biggest smirk you have ever seen on her face.>Oh Anon...
>>3926558Well, I thought that if a monster absorbed a human's soul, then there would be no way to separate the two so evem if other monsters try and gib him for the powerup, its pointless.
>>3926565>Anon is two weeks away from manifesting a tulpaI have been flashbanged by mental images of her holding me while I've been trying to get work done, you might not be too far off.It's like Gaius Baltar from BSG, but I don't think I have a chip in my head.>Also, what things?It's already gonna be hard enough explaining this to her if I end up being right on that whole Virtual Twilight Town thing, let me retain some dignity in this world.
>>3926567Fuck, that's funny.This idea did also actually make my heart sink, so congrats on that.
>>3926570Thanks anon, first time tryin greentext but the idea of Roba finding your autistic rambles was too funny not to try.
>>3926569>It's like Gaius Baltar from BSGI'm glad someone can finally get that reference. I've been making Baltar and Cylon Six jokes in other furry game threads for years and no one gets them.> but I don't think I have a chip in my head.I don't think he did either. I'm pretty sure that was one of the show's many plot twists.>, let me retain some dignity in this world.Look anon, if she's watching over you from above then she's already seen everything, and if she's in your head then she knows everything you know.
>>3926564>she gets right up behind anon, sparing him the indignity of actually reading what the argument is about. she can't help but be a little entertained at how focused he gets, but it's 3 am and so she's going to get a little revengeshe puts her mouth right next to your ear as she slowly gets her hands into position>all at once as anon is in the middle of explaining what Dash the avalanche couldn't beat anyone from monster stone neo, she whispers into his ear while grabbing him at the same time, "boo!">the way anon nearly jumped out of his skin had rolling on the floor for minutes>anon stares red in the face as she has her fun, before eventually firing back, embarassed, "oh you're something alright.">Ceroba doesn't get up from the floor, as she calms down she flutters her eyes at anon, enticing him away from the computer, "its 3 am anon, lets head to bed." the sly grin never left, "on the other hand," she lets her kimono fall off her shoulder "you've already kept me waiting long enough"I should be in bed already what the fuck am I doing.
>>3926571You know, part of the dreams I had was that my PC setup was somehow present in the room Ceroba was taking care of me in, so if I miraculously end up in that world some day, it's not out of the question that the unimaginable horror you've described to me could actually happen.Followed by my soul promptly shattering into a thousand pieces.
>>3926568So what do you think the central plot premise of the game is?
>>3926567>>3926574nice, the dark spirit of uty grows.
>>3926575>so if I miraculously end up in that world some dayI hope you'll post a selfie with her if you do. That's assuming you don't have monster 4chan in that world, where everyone is arguing about Overstory fangames.
>>3926573>I don't think he did either. I'm pretty sure that was one of the show's many plot twists.Yeah, that was weird, I feel like the show was better when it maintained the ambiguity of what was sci-fi and what was actually esoteric.>Look anon, if she's watching over you from above then she's already seen everything, and if she's in your head then she knows everything you know.Yeah, yeah I know.I just hope she's willing to hear me out once I'm over on that side of things. In my own defense, I imagine whatever happened out there is different enough from the game of UTY that I'm familiar with, like those double-blind "what if?"s you see in alternate history settings.
>>3926574Transitioning funny greentext into horny one, apparently.>>3926575I like to inflict mental damage on others.>>3926576I'll be honest Oldentale anon, I only know very vague bits and pieces that there's Toriel's sister, Racter with human soul (lad needs friends and self confidence) and maybe there's a fox girl who likes to be too manipulative? Also that it takes place during the war so uhh...If I were to hazard a guess it ends with monsters being sealed and Racter either hermiting himself away or dying for his kind.
>>3926567her expression
>>3926574God, I should be so lucky.No one's gonna believe me on this, but when I had the two major dreams, I had actually been having some somewhat severe heart problems that were getting steadily worse as I had the dreams, so I thought for a bit that I might genuinely just die and wake up in that world in like, a week or so.For reference, I'm not even 22, have no history of heart issues with myself or in my family, and multiple tests revealed nothing wrong with me even as it felt like my heart was being crushed by an invisible hand.The thought of Ceroba waiting for me after this was all over was an extremely comforting one, so I can say now that I actually don't fear death as much anymore.I'm gonna be thread in-joke from now until the end of time, aren't I?
>>3926581Honestly, if Ceroba got her hands on my PC, I think I'd have more to explain than just some thread arguments.
>>3926578That would easily be the funniest way for the world to find out the multiverse exists, could you imagine?"Hey guys, anthros are real and I dimension hopped and got a tall hot fox wife!"This universe would go empty in days.
>>3926582I was experiencing heart pains like that in my 20s, and the doctors ran all the nice an expensive tests and came up with nothing. took 3 years for someone to say "oh did you know anxiety causes that?" I don't know if it's the same case for you but it can feel genuinely like a heart attack if it's a genuinely severe case of the AHHHHH FUCK. Stuff like swimming helps
>>3926576 is johnny gonna have to live a life on the lam with his ol pal Racter? eatin beans out of a can? Every day a struggle as we fend off monsters who want to get between the bond between us!?
>>3926580I was asking what you think is going on for most of the game? Like Undertale is a game where you play as a human in an Underground kingdom full of monsters that want to take your soul. Deltarune is about a couple of teenagers jumping into fantasy worlds made from household objects and trying to prevent the end of the world. What do you think the premise of Oldentale is?
>>3926585Eh, it's mostly gone now. Occasionally comes back when I think of Ceroba, which is something I'm just going to quietly ignore the implications of and move on.She'll pull me out when it's time, I trust her.
I've been playing ultrakill today, ngl i want a deltarune fangame with ultrakill styled movement where you play as the roaring knight, most of these moves are cool as fuck and i could visualize a locked-in roaring knight pulling this shit off, so surely there has to be someone who had the same idea and made something out of it, right? Or did the roaring fraud memes brainwash everybody into thinking an ultrakill the knight fangame wouldnt work because the knight couldnt possibly be this cool or whatever?
>>3926590I got dizzy reading that, but I'm surprised there's not a mod like that already since surprisingly deltarune and ultrakill have a lot of fanbase crossover.
>>3926587The struggle of a man who has been dragged into something way above his proverbial paygrade and now has to see things through despite just wanting things to go back to how they were?
>>3926585nta, but I get that even when I'm completely calm. Still the doctor says it might be anxiety. I figure I'll get the tests since I have decent insurance, since if it is anxiety, knowing its just that and not a heart condition that could kill me would help a lot.
>>3926582Have you tried sleeping on your side instead of on your back? Usually it gets harder to breathe if you sleep on your back so changing your sleep position might work
>>3926592Who do you think the enemies are going to be? Humans or monsters?
>>3926594I actually usually sleep on my stomach, but also the heart stuff would just happen whenever, standing, sitting, etc. It would strike whenever, and now I guess I have some mental association between it and Ceroba, so that's fun.Like I said, 'sfine.
>>3926574You know, while I would obviously choose to spend time with Ceroba over being embroiled in an argument on here all day, it occurs to me that it might still take me a sec to actually decide.My only hope is that she wouldn't find all the drawings I've made of her in this context, that would be much more difficult to explain.
>>3926593good luck anon, anxiety can be wacky like that where it just gets your heart doing its thing even when you don't feel like anything's quite wrong. I would feel all the other symptoms before I would check my heart rate. My hands would go numb sometimes before I went to close a deal usually meaning it was around 180. The symptoms can be different for everyone, but if they clear you as just having the anxiety, make sure and get some casual exercise, even if you can't get your head right, it makes your body more able to handle what your brain is putting you through.beyond that drink water and get moderate exercise anyways if you can. you'll appreciate that you did when you're twice the age you are now.this is getting dangerously offtopic but I do wish you the best
>>3926595Well, seeing as we play as a monster with human soul, I would say humans are more likely. Also I would imagine in the middle of a war, mosnters woukdn't really like, jump each other to begin with.
>>3926595nta but I figured monsters who want the soul for themselves. I imagine monsters are more fun to draw than humans.
>>3926597 another new green unlocked
>>3926590I haven't seen any fangames of it, but I've seen a lot of memes about the Knight playing Ultrakill.And I assume you mean first person 3d movement, and not 2d movement that's somewhat reminiscent of Ultrakill.
>>3926602NO NO STOP IT PLEASE I BEG YOU
>>3926604you're spared, for now unless another anon suddenly does it
>>3926602>>3926604>Anon, they are not that small...are they?
>>3926597What if she's made drawings of you while posting on Undernet and in her world you're a character from the hit game Overstory: Ambrose? And what if you two have a really cute slice of life episode where you're both hiding your really embarrassing posting habits from each other, and at the end you find out and laugh it off, knowing there's nothing to be ashamed of.
>>3926607>knowing there's nothing to be ashamed of.both of them can have a little shame, as a treat.
>>3926605I actually would be kinda interested to read it, given that my dreams/visions have shown me that I may need to prepare to face it in reality some day.Just uh, go easy on me, please?>>3926606Oh dude, are you kidding? I've been known to give her some massive dobonhonkeros when I draw her, I don't skimp out.
>>3926599Well anon. I suppose I should say that you're wrong. The antagonists of the game are other monsters that want (you) for themselves, like that other anon guessed. Its monster on monster violence
>>3926607The idea of me being part of some kind of larger fictional creation is viscerally horrifying to me because that would imply people know me and things about me.I'd be fine waking up in her world and seeing that she drew weird things of me while I was out, that's fine though.
>>3926600They are indeed more fun to draw
>>3926609Sorry anon, I wasn't sure who you were but I agree, large tits are the way to go.[Spoiler] reason why all my female oc's are titty monsters[/spoiler]
>>3926613I fucked up the spoiler, its genuinely over.
>>3926613See, what I'm really afraid of is that she'd see all of the ostensibly much weirder things I've drawn with her and tease me about it until the end of time, because I'd never be able to defend myself on that front, it'd be impossible.
>>3926613How'd you do that?
>>3926614how though? Its spelled right. Is it thee capitalization?
>>3926610Also damn, poor dude can't catch a break can he? would that even work tho? Being able to steal the (you) from Racter after being in him?
>>3926618You'll just have to wait and see.
>>3926616>>3926617I'm guessing its the auto capitalization from phone. Technology once again ruining my life it seems. also I've shared one of em here before
>>3926615Just accept the sweet ego death caused by fluffy fox wife.>>3926619I shall then!
>>3926621>Just accept the sweet ego death caused by fluffy fox wife.Oh I've already completely accepted her thrall over me, she can do whatever she wants while I'm in here.One of the dreams I had was almost nothing but the feeling of her holding one of my hands while I was unconscious, I figure she's allowed to make fun of me if she's spending so much time making sure my body doesn't die or whatever's happening out there.
>>3926603Yeah, first person 3D movement with the knight would be awesome, althrough now that you mention it, i wonder how a deltarune with ultrakill's movement would work or look like
>>3926622Damn anon, you really are deep in, huh. Don't take this badly but just make sure you have a grip on reality, aight? As much as I would love to have my oc's be real I wont delude myself into thinking she is with me.
>>3926624>Don't take this badly but just make sure you have a grip on reality, aight?Oh yeah, no, I know I'm slipping.It's cool though, I still know what's material and whatnot, I just have dreams and visions that I hold onto.I figure if people can be scientologists, I'm allowed to believe in fox wife.
>>3926625Anon...I ain't gonna patronize but just be careful.
>>3926625Just remember, don't give people nuclear bombs or purposely botch their Cylon tests because she told you to
>>3926626See, I'm basically just using these dreams like a more roundabout version of the Naruto teeth brushing post, I can snap myself out of things when I need to.I don't really believe in them as much as I did when I was having those weird spontaneous heart problems, and even then I was under a lot of stress, so I mostly just trick myself into believing it for the sake of keeping myself going sometimes, because sometimes the only thing that can keep me going is the idea that she wants me to.Don't worry about it though, it's all good.But man, what if right?
>>3926627Okay.Fair.In actuality, the only thing she told me in those dreams were that I'm not allowed to kill myself and that I have to keep moving forward in life, which, disconnected from the bit about waking up on that side of things, seems like fairly sound advice that I should be listening to anyway.So, I think it's fine.
>>3926628I guess as long as you are fine, delude away! I shoukd draw the Roba too sometime but too many things to draw and nof enough time and drive, especjally with writing Zart story on the side too. did draw her goopified daughter tho
>>3926631>I shoukd draw the Roba too sometime but too many things to draw and nof enough time and drive,See, this is one of the things I mean, one time this fixation on Ceroba caused me to suddenly gain the energy to power through a bunch of work I had to do, specifically so I could then draw an anon giving Ceroba a hug before it stopped being October 8th, which is apparently the date on which she was created as a character.It's like having a patron god that gives you buffs, except way weirder and more specific.
>>3926633I'm just really easily distracted when I try and do any sort of work that's of the productive type. It sucks cause I know I should just lock in but can't bring myself to.
>>3926634>It sucks cause I know I should just lock in but can't bring myself to.I can relate, I spent today arguing about bullshit instead of doing any of the things I wanted to do today.
>>3926635Same here, without the arguing part. I coukd be eriting Clover trying to save Zen Mart but instead im checking the thread and trying to make sure anon doesn't fall too deep down.
>>3926637>instead im checking the thread and trying to make sure anon doesn't fall too deep down.Am I going to have to start reassuring people that I'm not crazy again?
>>3926639Mayhaps. Good to know its not the case tho anon. Now imma try and spend work time with something actually productive.
>>3926642Alright, disclaimer time: Yes I had weird dreams about Ceroba that made me question reality for a while, but *no*, I don't think I'm gonna wake up in the UT universe when I die, I believe in the normal thing that happens when you die, like a normal, sane person, of which I am one.A sane person, that is.Trust me.Please nobody hold this over my head forever i will combust
>>3926645No worries anon, I understand now.Also a small snippet for those curious:“SINCE WHEN CAN HATTED HUMAN TELEPORT?” Ceroba let out a sigh, feeling an oncoming headache but it dwarfed next to the sheer dread she didn’t want to show. “Uhh, would wager sometime in the ballpark of the last couple hours, partner.” Starlo supplied helpfully, only to be met with the emotionless stare of Axis as the robot looked him up and down.“[WILD WEST NERD] DETECTED, ANSWER REGARDED WITH SIXTY PERCENT PROBABILITY OF BEING OVERBLOWN, AS PER INSTRUCTIONS OF CREATOR.” The smile immediately evaporated from the sheriff’s face and despite the circumstances, Ceroba had to stifle a giggle at the expense of her childhood friend.“That sonuva."Chujin is petty enough to beef from beyond the grave.
>>3926646>No worries anon, I understand now.Good, glad that's cleared up.I'm gonna regret all of this by the time I wake up, aren't I?>the rest of thatI dunno what all that is or what it's an excerpt of, but it's pretty well written, good stuff.
>>3926647Maybe you will, maybe you won't.It's just me trying to inject a moment of levity between bouts of edge.
>>3926648>Maybe you will, maybe you won't.I get the feeling like I've made a mistake of some kind.>It's just me trying to inject a moment of levity between bouts of edge.In the story you're writing, or in this, the thread?
>>3926649The story I'm writing. Not sure if you saw me post about it before but it doesn't really mstter in the grand scheme of things.
>>3926650Seems neat, where can I read the rest of it?
>>3926651Posted the oastebin in the previous thread. Sadly can't really go look for it right now but the premise is Zen Mart ending up in pacifist timeline ending and hsving to deal with that.
>>3926652Oh, like that "Swaptale" comic from way back in the day that never got continued.That actually sounds kinda interesting, I'll go see if I can find it.
>>3926653There is no swapping involved. Both Martlets are in there. Easy to find if you search for pastebin if i recall. And let me know what you think of the story so far if you read it!
>>3926654>There is no swapping involved.Yeah, the title of that comic was kinda weird.I guess it was just because Chara and Frisk were made to suddenly swap places in their respective timelines, but the stuff with Sans was just something he did by himself.Always felt like it would've been more interesting in that comic if both versions of Sans were made to coexist in the pacifist timeline rather than having pacifist Sans get killed by Toriel on accident and then swept under the rug like immediately, but it's not like the comic got too much further than that.Anywho, I'll probably read the story sometime tomorrow when I have some more freetime, and when my head doesn't hurt so damn much.In the meantime, I have to get back to drawing Ceroba, good luck with your story!
>>3925328>Thread already reached bump limitGod, these threads are fast
>>3926656Thanks anon, good luck with the Roba art too!
>>3926657Yep, guess that was my fault.Again.
