I want to know the opinion of those who have read them. It is actually a very interesting book that deals with meditation, techniques to imagine and concentrate and then materialize the subtle into something dense.Has anyone tried what Master Franz says and at what level are they?
No. Stupidly dangerous for someone who doesn’t know what they’re dealing with.
>>38226575Any books you would recommend then?
>>38226575This. Quieting your mind is hella dangerous. Would not recommend.
>>38226655Ascent of Mount Carmel
>>38226676I can imagine that by quieting the mind, you can come into contact with entities that are often not good to us. Or is it for another reason?
Nah this shit is the real deal. That's why you're being trolled. Although it's called "initiation" inferring it as some sort of introduction into hermetics, I'd still recommend getting familiar with the fundamentals of hermetics and occult or you may not get a complete understanding of what Franz is trying to express here. It's definitely a good book if you're curious and willing to put in some diligent work! You may reap enormous benefits. You may even want to stop browsing 4chan
Level 1 describes basic but incredible things. It tells you to exercise, to meditate for 5 minutes a day, to bathe often. Tips that are basic but many people forget. Just by doing that you will notice an improvement in your day to day life.
>>38226676Why would it be dangerous? Controlling our thought processes and strive for more control of emotions cannot be a bad thing
>>38226883Are you the anon from the Robert Bruce thread on level 2 from IIH? I've wondered about trying it even though there's always some risk. But from what I read it seems very practical and harmless
This board is obviously made up of children>>38226925He was trolling
>>38226720You're more likely to be influenced by entities manipulating your emotions and subconscious if you don't practice meditation, which purpose is to be in control of and know your mind.
>>38226491it's easy in a sense that the instructions for practice are very clearly outlinedit's difficult in a sense that it's easy to be so rigorous with yourself that you won't progress beyond step 1 too quickly. after all, he says you should be able to enter vacancy of mind for 10 minutes, while it's difficult to even reach this state for a few seconds at the beginningif you're experienced in regards to practicing any skill, you might be able to accurately measure your progress. if you have experience in meditation, even betterI found ceremonial magic to be easier to start with. you just do the practices and you don't worry about the result, you just give it your all. even if it means you're very sleepy and can't focus enough, you just do it and you can feel it changing you. the emotional response you receive makes it easier to persevere. IIH seems much more intellectual and emotionally dryanother example is the elemental purification. in IIH, you are supposed to figure out your impurities and later work on getting rid of them by autosuggestion. in ceremonial magic they just come to your attention on their own and resolve almost as easily if you persevere in your practiceso all in all it depends what type of person you are and what do you find easier
>>38226491Establish a daily practice and get to studying both the practice and the theory behind it. Making the practice a routine will go a long way.
>>38231447>ceremonial magicwhat's a good intro
>>38231480my favourite beginner book is Damien Echols' High Magiconce you have a practice of LBRP daily start doing your own research on magic
IIH is the best for an actual practicioner. I would ignore some of the timelines he throws out though. For example Soul Mirror is a lifetime exercise. You aren't going to unfuck yourself and be perfect in a couple weeks. Get it started before you move on and make sure you work it every day, but you can move on before you finish. My stack I've been working for 15 years>Bible>Bardon IIH>Prometheus Rising>Advanced Magick for Beginners
>>38231698The soul mirror is a simple but effective technique to know oneself. I intend to practice it until my last days. By the way, whose last book is it? It's a somewhat generic name kek
>>38231786Alan Chapman. It's kind of like a simplified Liber Null & Psychonaut.
>>38226768>I'd still recommend getting familiar with the fundamentals of hermetics and the occultMight you happen to have book recommendations?
>>38231447Uggh...Ceremonial magic is assss at purification. 90% of those who dabble in ceremonial magic have a retrogradation of spiritual development, because they consort with demons that impart them with demonic states of mind aka "shells from hell".The 10% who improve their spiritual purity only do so on account of the practices that are decided NOT from ceremonial magic.Calling demons to fulfill your desires is the complete opposite of purification. Its a high speed lane to hell, and adopting mindspaces of hell.
>>38226491The Republic
>>38233802I totally agree. Ceremonial magic harms your spiritual development.>>38233974Plato?
eat 1 pound of gold cap shrooms that you blend into orange juice and leave in the fridge over night before taking.play some music and have a sober friend watch you and help keep you safe.after you can start a new age life blog and get sponsored by "Better Help" on youtube and spend the next 11 years shroomed out and learning stuff.or just smoke hash and jerk off instead.
>>38226491I would recommend picrel instead. If you aren't interested in reading a bunch of books and just want a practice, try The One Year Manual by Israel Regardie.
>>38226491Bardon is the one author that took eastern energetic practices and implemented their elements and dynamics into western occultism, i'm talking about his magnetic and electric fluids, which are described the same way as qyin qi and yang qi are described in taoist practices.The one thing i don't like about Bardon is the fact he didn't bring the eastern channel systems, instead his way of clearing blockages and opening channels is through discrete, passive meditative exercises and specific actions (like washing with a dry cloth every day). But overall, i think Bardon is way easier to understand if you have a taoist background already, but even without that i think he's the best author to study when it comes to developing practical applications of magic and pursuing tangible results.Other western models focus too much on introspective and organizing frameworks, everything is expressed through visualization, oracle tools and analogical symbolism, everything is mental. Bardon is different because of the introduction of the magnetic and electric fluids from the east into his model, which opens a door to more practical, physical effects.
>>38234564Israel's book looks interesting, I will take a look at it since it is short, thank you very much.
>>38234564>>38234605>Israelno thanks
>>38234564Have you tried his one year manual? Have always wondered about that little practical book of his and how doable and rewarding could it be. Does it involve invocations or just practical exercices?So far only read some excerpts of the tree of life.
>>38231590>Praying to the demiurge for energy
>>38235288Here's the table of contents to give you an idea of what it looks like. The intention is to give you a spiritual experience within twelve months. Not guaranteed, of course, but worse case scenario is you come out equipped better for whatever route you take in your practice.
>>38226491The practices described are the sort of abstract mental focus needed to make magic work. I didn't really follow his techniques except the one where you try to expand your consciousness while submerged within water, and that gave interesting results.
>>38226491A good supplement to it is Unlocking the Keys to Magic. Interviews with about ten adepts of Bardon's system.Rawn Clark's "A Bardon Companion" is also good.Don't forget to pray regularly for protection, guidance, and grace. You need some help from the divine when you work regularly with hermetic magic. Traditionally hermetic mages in Europe have been devout Christians as well.
>>38233802Christard/Jewtard nonsense.
>>38233802ceremonial magic is an umbrella term for a large variety of practices. what you're describing is evocation magic dealing with demons. you can do evocation magic dealing with other entities. you can do no evocations at allsummoning demons deals with obtaining information and / or getting some practical results. there are other branches of magic that deal exclusively with self-purificationbut you are right in saying that people who go straight to demonic evocations are shit at purification. they are usually not looking for spiritual development in the first place
>>38226491 I’m a faggot and it’s not my list below but it’s a comprehensive beginner book list. Bardon’s book is on here. It’s alright but kind of advanced. Damien Echols High Magick might be the best beginner book. I recommend you get an audio version of it narrated by him so you know what to do during a ritual. The list - knock yourself out:>Modern Magick: Twelve Lessons in the High Magickal Arts by Donald Michael Kraig>Learning Ritual Magic: Fundamental Theory and Practice for the Solitary Apprentice by John Michael Greer>Monsters: An Investigator's Guide to Magical Beings by John Michael Greer>Encyclopedia of Natural Magick by John Michael Greer>Simplified Qabala Magic by Ted Andrews>The Healer's Manual: A Beginner's Guide to Energy Healing for Yourself and Others by Ted Andrews>Chi Gung: Chinese Healing, Energy and Natural Magick by L.V. Carnie>Angels: Companions in Magick by Silver Ravenwolf>The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle>Initiation into Hermetics by Franz Bardon>The Golden Dawn by Israel Regardie>The Middle Pillar by Israel Regardie>A Garden of Pomegranates: An Outline of the Qabalah by Israel Regardie>Healing Energy, Prayer, and Relaxation by Israel Regardie>78 Degrees of Wisdom: A Tarot Journey to Self-Awareness by Rachael Pollock>The Book of the Law by Aleister Crowley>777 and Other Qabalistic Writings of Aleister Crowley: Including Gematria & Sepher Sephiroth by Aleister Crowley>Magick in Theory and Practice by Aleister Crowley>Liber Null & Psychonaut: An Introduction to Chaos Magic by Peter J. Carroll>Promethea Book 1 by Alan Moore>Promethea Book 2 by Alan Moore>Promethea Book 3 by Alan Moore>High Magick by Damien Echols>Angels & Archangels: A Magician's Guide by Damien Echols>The Kybalion>Abramelin The Mage>Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune
>>38236373To follow up on my original post - Robert Bartlett’s Real Alchemy is what got me down this rabbit hole in the first place. I highly recommend reading it if you haven’t already.
>>38236373pretty good listhowever, to get the most out of reading anything magic related, you should practice lbrp daily. somehow it makes you understand more than you would just reading without any experience with practicehigh magic is a very good book for the beginner, if not the best. also I highly recommend watching Damien's lectures on YouTube. he tends to ramble, but he presents a lot of concepts in very approachable manner
>>38235732>except the one where you try to expand your consciousness while submerged within water, and that gave interesting results.Can you share your results with us? I have also heard of people who submerge themselves in salt water in order to float better and not feel any stimulation.
>>38235732Bardon doesn't outright say it, but all his "exercises" have as a goal one of three things, developing a sense for the electric and magnetic fluid, cleaning and opening the body's pathways for them to flow freely, or help harmonize the electric with the magnetic fluid.The way Bardon approaches developing a sense for the magnetic and electric fluids, and harmonizing them is through the four classical elements, water and earth form the magnetic fluid (yin qi in taoism), fire and air form the electric fluid (yang qi in taoism). He attributes these elements to different sensations and body parts, by engaging regularly in the exercises that have to do with water and earth you eventually develop a sense for the magnetic fluid which is literally a parallel of yin qi, it feels the same, a cold, pulling fluid like sensation in your body that you can generate and move around. And by engaging regularly with the exercises that have to do with the fire and air elements you develop a sense for the electric fluid, which is a parallel for yang qi, a warm or hot, stimulating and tingling fluid that you can generate and move around. He also uses different points in the body as energy centers and main channels, which happen to match the taoist dantians and the main governing and conception meridians in the spine and front of the body.Bardon doesn't expose his framework fully, he expects people to just follow the exercises and eventually develop the intended results, but it's easier and quicker if you have a clear understanding of the framework and in-detail understanding of how each exercise really works.
>>38237836And to add some more, the electric and magnetic fluids are central, without them there is no "magic", this is made clear by how he explains the dynamics behind the evocation process:>“When evoking, one must balance the electric and magnetic fluids to ensure the desired entity is attracted and controlled. The electric fluid must be utilized to project and command, while the magnetic fluid is used to attract and bind. This balance is crucial for the successful evocation and interaction with entities.” ("The Practice of Magical Evocation", Chapter 9, Preparatory Work)
>>38237836Have you been able to experience these electric or magnetic flows in your body? If I hold my palms facing each other for a few minutes, then I feel as if they are repelling magnets. I don't know if Bardon was referring to that.
>>38238350Developing a sense for the magnetic and electric fluids isn't really the hard part, i did that through qi gong before i even studied Bardon. The vast majority of people can learn how to sense the electric fluid within minutes with the right instructions, it's the magnetic that gives people some trouble because it's subtler and it's not as consciously engaged with as the electric, but regardless of that, developing the sense doesn't take long. After you have developed the sense you then naturally figure out how to move them around, even if haphazardly at first.The problem is clearing and opening channels/pathways and the harmonization or merging of the fluids. This requires a lot more time of consistent practice, and in western occult models the process is even slower because western methods are predominantly meditative so you don't physically engage with the channels like in eastern practices (yoga, qi gong...). Western occultism manages the clearing and opening of channels in a passive, discrete way with meditative and ritual practices through symbolic elements, for example hermetic qabalah clears and opens the governing and conception channels through middle pillar meditations, but the channels aren't really mentioned, people tend to not know what they're really doing with the middle pillar meditation and other meditative rituals. On the other hand eastern practices physically stimulate the channels by stressing the fascia and sinews of the body with physical exercises, which results in almost explosive results when compared to the west.>If I hold my palms facing each other for a few minutes, then I feel as if they are repelling magnets.This isn't enough sadly and Bardon wasn't referring to this. It's easier if you focus your awareness in your lower abdomen where most of the fascia of the body is, since the fascia is the highest physical conductor of the fluids it's better to start practicing in that area.
>>38238440So do you recommend doing Yoga to cleanse the impurities in the chakras? Any book or guide to start with this?
>>38238599You can stick to Bardon's itinerary since it's already organized and presented efficiently, then complement it with basic, consistent qi gong, mastering the wuji posture is more than enough a complement to Bardon's system.This in my opinion is the "easiest" or rather most efficient way of getting results. The problem people have with Bardon's model is they don't truly understand how the framework operates with each of its parts. They halfassedly practice the exercises, skip some of them or don't know when to stop because they don't know what they're truly trying to achieve with them. You know that now, and also i'm not versed in yoga so i can't really recommend it.
>>38238648I'll add, without access to a master, Damo Mitchel has a pretty detailed and comprehensive guide to the wuji posture, describing all the nuances of how you need to position the body. It's in his "comprehensive guide to daoist neigong" book, don't try to just copy the posture from videos somewhere, there are nuances that can't be observed in videos, Damo Mitchel does a good job of going through the whole posture.
Why is he talking about the desert demon in the intro?
>>38236907We think a lot alike. That’s essentially what I would recommend too. I started on the lbrp and lirp and have started doing the middle pillar ritual. I also do an alchemical visualization exercise that he recommends in one of his YouTube videos.
>>38239769His paradigm was mainly based on hermeticism and esoteric christianity, although his praxis was highly influenced by the east. His understanding of the concept of God was by no means similar to that of a regular christian, you can see that by how he explains the use of the magic circle.
Bump
>>38236907>>38239788If you decide to stick to hermetic qabalah i'd recommend doing the lbrp and the ritual of the hexagram as the main body of practice. Some people stick only to lbrp and this is good for some general health benefits and cultivation of "shen", which in turn provides more psychic acuity. However the two elements most essential for magic are represented by binah and hod (magnetism) and chokmah and netzach (electricity), and the most efficient way of cultivating them is through consistent practice of the ritual of the hexagram. Lbrp is the harmonizer and the cleaner of pathways, but on its own won't take you very far.
>>38243169What does LBRP means?
>>38234531fuck the united states of america, spiritual traitors
>>38226676Solitude is where the danger is at. Luckily, it is for the insane alone.
>>38243202Lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram.
I am a Catholic Christian. I have read some occult stuff like Bardon's book and generally I don't find it wrong. Meditating and feeling the magnetism and electricity in your body is something I am willing to practice, however when in some books they ask to perform prayers to the sun god and other gods or do strange rituals, then it gets a little weird for me. Is there any Christian Catholic who can give me his experience in the occult?
>>38243391A ritual shouldn't be "strange" if you understand its mechanisms, and you can only perform a ritual when you understand its mechanisms. As for theological aspects in magic, they're just a proxy, if you're uncomfortable with praying or interacting with any specific theological figure, you can simply change it for a christian figure, as long as the new figure retains the symbolic attributes of the old one.
>>38243418Eso sería basicamente sincretismo. Estarías adorando a otras entidades bajo el nombre de Dios, eso sería peor
>>38243445All traditions are syncretic, why do you think the underlying framework for magic is the same in every tradition? They've passed that framework around and modified on top of it to adhere to different endemic elements that later on turned into their own traditions.And i don't think that communing with a christian figure would be considered a sin if you're a christian.
>>38243445>>38243391As an example, a sun god could be easily replaced by Jesus, giving Jesus's symbolic attributions with the Sun, in fact the sephiroth most attributed to Jesus in hermetic qabalah is Tiphareth which represents the Sun.
>>38243445Anon was so offended that he started speaking Spanish kekAll gods are the same, just pray and expand your limits, don't be so closed.
>>38243169as for the hexagram it really depends. in thelema you would be instructed to do it since the beginning, along with some other ritualsin traditional golden dawn, however, the hexagram ritual was used only after the neophyte has been thoroughly purified, along with other rituals, in order to put back together what you have separated and purified along the way. it was considered to be adept-level ritualif you're just starting out, I think it's more important to do not do too much in order not to get discouraged. after all, if you're just starting out and you're not even sure if that stuff works, or you just believe it intellectually but don't have an experience of it, it might be easier to stick to just the lesser pentagram rituals. I would even venture to say that doing the lbrp once a day is enough, at least until you really feel it working and you want to do more. too much severity at the beginning can be discouraging
>>38243683Ultimately it'll depend on the person, lbrp and hexagram are complementary in the development of the necessary tools for magic, and it takes a long time to develop them so i'd generally recommend doing both regularly and consistently. I'm looking at it from an underlying framework, not necessarily one from hermetic qabalah, Bardon's hermeticism, taoism or buddhism. The overarching mechanisms behind "magic" in all of these come down to the master of these two negative/positive forces, their harmonization and the cleansing of the body, which is pretty much the cleaning and opening of pathways.If i was talking to a specific individual i knew, and they were just dabbling in it out of curiosity, then probably i'd worry about the shelf life of their dedication and interest, and would only tell them to practice the lbrp regularly. Otherwise i just assume people are looking for the best path even if it burns, mastering something isn't supposed to be enjoyable if you want to be efficient.
>>38245593I am interested in the lbrp, is there a specific book that you recommend to start with this practice?
>>38246189For the only purpose of learning the lbrp, i'd recommend reading the lbrp parts of "Modern Magick" by Donald Michael Kraig and "The Golden Dawn" by Israel Regardie. You're free to explore other resources, i just consider these two combined to offer what is needed to understand and perform the ritual.
>>38246237I'd also like to add that you're better off looking at these rituals as something you need to perfect and master as a regular, consistent practice. When people who are new to this hear the word "ritual" they have this preconceived idea about it being something you do when you need something or maybe once a month. This is not the case, you need to treat it like you treat a posture in qigong and yoga, you practice it every day.
>>38226491>Bardon died from pancreatitis on 10 July 1958 while in the custody of police>15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.His spiritual ability should have been high enough to notice his disease before being too late or even cure it himself. The fact that he died at only 49 shows that we wasn't as apt as some people claim he was. Also some will say he chose to die a natural death but that's just coping. No one has that power and choses to die at that ageI'm sorry anon but you should only read his book for new ideas and inspiration. It's not something to be taken as a school book.
>>38247294Jesus died younger and he apparently had marvel super powers, i don't wanna hear this type of reasoning from a christian.
>>38246189You can also find examples of the ritual on YouTube. I think Lifting the Lamp does an example.
>>38246189Liber O is a good source for the LBRP and other forms of the same pentagram based ritual. Also the Hexagram ones too. The LBRP also has a hexagram in it, but it is essentially to make the whole thing a ceremonial Seal of Solomon.
>>38247294>Bardon died from pancreatitis on 10 July 1958 while in the custody of policeHis health was compromised by the torture he suffered from the Nazis. Then the Communists arrested him on specious charges and I don't think they treated him any better than the Nazis. I also don't know how much value the report of a doctor who risked ending up in Siberia if he disobeyed orders has.
>>38226491It's like the Pikhail of occultism. I have it, read it, and would recommend. Basically the first half is pointing out the occult all around us, and going into things like the elements, and how they relate to the body (Fire with the mouth, air is throat, water in the guts etc). Much like Pikhail starts out with a story in the first half a sort of "origin" to give the reader bulding blocks to understand. Context, etc. The second half is allll rituals. Literally techniques, and applicable uses of magic. Meditation. Visualization, breathing, even washing your face, etc.Where with Pihkail he goes over allll the different drugs he synthesized, their effects, how he made them, what he felt etc. That's why I call it the "Pikhail of occultism" recommend both books honestly.>>38226575Don't listen to this tard. You always have control over yourself, and what you do. YOU have to give control away in order for anything to do bad to or through you. And that's on you. Know that? And you're golden like the rule.
>>38226491I started reading. What does he mean by "the first tarot card"?
>>38248352Nigger read the very next sentence for fucks sake. >"The first card, or first page of this book introduces the Magician, who represents the mastery of the elements and offers the key to the first arcanum"So lets break that down. The magician, unlike the fool which is card zero is the INITIATED individual. You know? What the book is trying to do? You, the fool, are trying to become master of the elements! (The physical world basically.) If you're not familiar with the story of the tarot cards it's symbolically the life path of an individual in a way. We start off as fools, (Some stay there) but some strive to learn, and use the tools in their environment to make their lives better. Hence, the Magician. The practicioner of said tools at their disposal. Read first, then meditate, then ask questions!
>>38248463Interesting what you say about the tarot, I thought the cards were just representations of the archetypes and not as a succession of images as a story. Is there a book I can read to learn more about this?
>>38248352What >>38248463 says. Each of the major arcana of the tarot represents a part of initiation and the journey into self actualization and knowledge of the occult.
>>38249260I think Franz goes over that in the book. Honestly, you can just look it up online to get the gist. Tarot is a divination tool as well as a sort of story representing the student as they go through initiation, and life itself. The major arcanas can represent individuals the student comes across changing their perspective, or maybe the student itself. Basically ending with the world arcana i believe in which the student essentially becomes aware of the whole everything, person, etc is all interconnected, and also finding their place within the world itself so to speak. I'm sure an online resource can give you a better idea. Just search tarot major arcana story meaning etc.
>>38249374Here. Took my own advice.https://lizroberta.com/2020/10/28/how-tarot-cards-work-the-fools-journey-story-of-the-major-arcana/amp/This goes over the story pretty well enough.
>>38248463Thanks. Just didn't understand that the tarot cards had an actual order to then. Meditate on not being a dick.
>>38249385Not him, thanks for sharing this
>>38249460Oh, sorry, did you want me to make airplane noises while I spoon feed you? Nothing worse than a lazy student. I'm sure your pursuits will go well! Especially since the answer to your question was a few sentences down the very same page. :^)>>38249501No problem.
>>38249700Nah. You answered the question by stating that there's an order to tarot and that it tells a story. That's all you had to say. Do less.
>>38249869I'll refrain from taking your own advice since you can't even be bothered to read a single full page of a book. Sure that's working out for you.
>>38249894I read the page. Already onto the elements. Just asked for the context, which you gave. Thanks, fool.
>>38248463Mexican finger?
>>38247294Working with the spiritual energies and forces can take its toll on the physical body. Healers and similar also take damage working with negative entities and forces.
>>38226925you don't know what you're talking about. quieting your mind means detaching yourself from outside stimuli for a longer period. it's staring into the abyss and waiting for something to stare back.
>>38250434Nah, probably just bad lighting.
>>38251322Isn't the purpose of life to fulfill our potential? To strive for more control of our lives, to fortify our will or allow me to rephrase it, to not be controlled by external stimuli so we're not brainless robots?So why quieting the mind should be dangerous, if we're be able to focus our intent at will instead of having it drifting away in the mishmash of thoughts, how can something constructive like that be risky?
>>38243391Read Dion Fortune.
Since we are already here, let me ask something:Every single credible book, like initiation into hermetics, Energy work, psionics, etc. They openly talk about healing, and creating constructs. They talk about creating constructs that can increase temperature. But each one of them, refrains to talk about using it for offense, like cloaking your fist into an fire construct and using it for offense. I would be fine, if they openly states that you can't use these for manipulating real world phenomenon, like fire balls. But they just never talk about it at all. They never deny it, nor they accept. Why???
>>38257719You can create fireballs without magic. Fireballs from your arse.
>>38226883Why bathe often? How often? I unironically don't like having water touch me.
>>38257719Because they present a framework, and fire balls or assaulting people don't fulfill any task in said framework, it's as simple as that. There are plenty testimonies of Bardon affecting the environment physically with magic, and these testimonies should be considered flawed since they're given by his son and his students when he was alive, except for the fact that if you cross reference these physical effects Bardon was displaying with magic, they match the effects displayed by other unrelated figures in different models, which in my opinion boosts the credibility of these testimonies despite being from his son and students.As a cross referenced example for Bardon i'll use John Chang. The foundation of Bardon's magic was based on his magnetic and electric fluids, which is the same as the foundation for John Chang with yin qi and yang qi, both of them displayed similar effects, except Bardon called it magic and expressed it through a more western model, and John Chang called it neigong and expressed it as simply qi manipulation.
>>38226491No it isn't
>>38254498i didn't say you shouldn't do it. i just said to be careful. especially nowadays when we are so used to being blasted by external stimuli literally every minute of the day.
>>38236373Echols is a child murdering satanist. Avoid that energy, its deception.
>>38226491Franz Bardon is interesting, but avoid anything that promotes sexual magic.
>>38257903>le antisemitism maymayOpinion discarded
>>38249374https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=se_RIzPfAHY&list=PLOLZGV4LJmVIFEVVLZ0F-rBunW1oy1vnEWatch this for tarot overview.The THC interview is good as well.https://www.thehighersidechats.com/robert-bonomo-tarot-archetypes-banking-alchemy-marketing-magic/?highlight=tarot
>>38237836Might be the best post in the thread.
Where do you get the full Bardon tarot?
>>38258264I wasn't asking about tarot in general. But, I appreciate the link. I'll take a look while I'm pooping again.>>38258725Thanks for pointing that one out. That was a very insightful post, and had missed that. Makes a hell of alot of sense.
>>38259443>I'll take a look while I'm pooping again.Man, how elegant it’s been
>just spend 5 years of your life doing basic exercises before doing any real magick, brohonestly, there is better ways to begin
>>38260852Time estimations are pointless, everyone starts at a different place because the attributes honed by practice are already honed to some degree just by living, and everyone lives differently when it comes down to the nuances and the subtle.>doing basic exercises before doing any real magicDefine what you understand by "magic", because the vast majority of people will in fact have to go through some formative framework in order to perform real magic. There is no real magic without "basic exercises", the only exception to this are the very few unicorns that have natural proficiency due to living a certain type of life, possessing certain genetics or both.
>>38260852Mastering the basics is the foundation of greatness.
>>38248108>His health was compromised by the torture he suffered from the Nazis.These stories are almost certainly fabricated by him because he was seeking favor from the Czech communists.>The NHATZEEES tortured me because I wouldn't help them win the war with magic!Bullshit.
>>38258087>>le antisemitism maymay>Opinion discarded
>>38226491Start with Agrippa and an academic introduction like Hanegraaf. You can get results with the 19th century stuff but it's not going to give you the most accurate picture of what the philosophy and practice was like before recently.
>>38233707The Corpus Hermeticum for Hermeticism lol. Don't expect to figure out much of anything in the occult if you're not willing to read tough, boring or old books and put a lot of hours into research like that. Even the modern writers will be referencing that stuff and using blinds that can send you down a dead end if you don't know what they're doing so there's not really any alternative to reading it.
>>38226491is it bad to read this book before actually putting the stuff in it into practice? it's just so interesting to read that i can't resist reading ahead of the step i'm at
>>38263024There's no problem reading it, you can even read the other two books, i think the second one on evocation is specially important. If it helps you form the framework of the author it will make the practice smoother. What you shouldn't do is skip exercises once you're practicing.
>>38262141>another meme that stopped being funny 10 years agoDamn, you really showed me
I agree with the guys pushing for starting the lbrp first and then incorporating the hexagram ritual and then adding the middle pillar ritual to your daily ritual routine. If you do those three rituals for a year or more…. Well you would be better than me kek. Although I agree with it I find doing those three consistently is a lot of labor and leaves me feeling exhausted. Much like working out. I combined exercise and a healthy diet to this routine and it did help make my life better but I have to say that I couldn’t do the rituals consistently and thus saw limited “gains” both spirituality and materially. Consistency is the key.
>>38258264>>38259979I watched the video while pooping this morning. It didn't really say much of anything at all honestly. Just some word salad with some references to tarot throw in. I give it 2/10.>Over hour long podcast interview involving the same guy, and just goes over the history/evolution of tarot over time.I'm good. If I'm going to actively listen to something for that long it needs to be worth my time.i gave it about 8 minutes before it was clear to me nothing all thatvuseful would be said. Unless you have specific moments/timeslots. Another 3/10 from me. Not very impressed by this Robert Bonomo so far.
>>38262881>You may even want to stop browsing 4chanIf that's your post, what was meant by that? Do you have a Pastebin of resources you've consulted over the years?
>>38266752It's not my post and no I don't have a pastebin. I agree with him about 4chan and diligent work though. Taking too seriously what you find online is going to mislead you because there are a lot of retards who don't know what they're talking about according to any framework and a lot of the people who do know what they're talking about are using very historically recent frameworks that can work and be interesting but are not necessarily going to teach you anything about older subjects. And you really need to break out of the spoonfeed me mindset to get anywhere with occultism. If you are treating ritual like a cooking recipe where you're finding some book people tell you is good and following it without understanding the symbolism then you're putting your psychic and spiritual health in the hands of people you have no reason to trust, and you might as well go to church if that's what you're after. Even if you do find the right books, a lot of it will be coded or will take a lot of work to figure out for other reasons. Which isn't to say that I'm at that level yet or that you should get stuck on reading forever or that experimentation is bad or that Bardon will fuck you up. It's just to say you shouldn't be bringing that follower mentality with you into the occult. Historically something you see a lot is expectations that someone coming to this sort of subject is going to have mastered 'secular' subjects like philosophy or the natural sciences or that he's going to be so many years old and done this and that (like marriage for instance). And with some allowances for modern times and people wanting to try stuff out before they've mastered all the theory behind it I don't think that's a bad approach. You want to be intellectual very well-rounded, mentally and emotionally stable, and a critical thinker before you start practicing.
Bardon is the real deal. It's the most complete self development system ever to exist.There's a book called Frabato the magician, written by his secretary, that goes into some details of his life. He was tasked by God to write this book because apparently the souls who'd died were complaining that they never had any access to true spiritual development. It also talks about him battling an evil black lodge that tried to kill him with a device called a Tepaphone. The path itself is very dry. The goal is spiritual equanimity, and balance. Everything else is add-ons. The only danger at the beginning is being unbalanced, then evoking the elements. There's lots of warnings against it, focus on cultivating virtue and being good and loving, and you'll be fine. Success requires full dedication. Your life has to revolve around the work, everything else, whether its your job, ur family etc, its all secondary to the work. Only then, will you find success. The mysteries protect itself.
>>38263937>>another meme that stopped being funny 10 years ago>Damn, you really showed me
>>38262141>>38258087Wait until you find out the guy who drew that cartoon was a satanist lol.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_BougasIf you were on doublech, you might remember that a slicker version (the one here >>38257903) started circulating in 2015, anons were paranoid about telemetry, and Bougas popped out of the woodwork to confirm that it was him.
>>38269630Oh yeah, and if it's not obvious the significance of that is that there was hardcore shilling going on in 2015-16 to astroturf support for the Trump campaign. That's largely what the function of both the alt right and Q was.If you are still thinking in terms of simple left vs right then you're ngmi, it's way weirder.
>>38263937NTA but memes don't need to be funny but simply accurate.
>>38268940What do you mean by the only danger being evoking the lements while being unbalanced?Isn't the purpose itself of Bardon's practical system to balance yourself? Another question would be how and in which steps does he start teaching evocations, for which purposes and how dangerous can it be as many imply without really justifying why?
>>38267120In my opinion it is almost mandatory if one wants to seriously start a western occult practice to study the framework of hatha and raja yoga or a taoist cultivation praxis . There are many reasons for this and it's not about eastern practices being better.Most of the western occult models have derived their energetic framework from the east and they usually hide it with heavy layers of esotericism that help hide and tie in together the eastern bits within the western model. The problem with this is the practitioner starts thinking "why am i imagining this light in this place", "how is this red sphere i'm visualizing supposed to affect me?"..etc. People who have a master will turn to the master, but having a master is extremely uncommon in western practices, so they keep poking around getting lost in the thick layers of esoteric cover up and taking random right and wrong turns that usually end up in unproductive practice or the abandonment of the practice.If you study an energetic eastern framework first, you can lift the whole esoteric blanket and understand why you are doing what you are doing in your western model, and because of this it is easy to actually start understanding too what the esoteric layers are really representing and covering up, it's a win win situation and it also speeds up the practice and prevents frustration and abandonment.
>>38269671>it is almost mandatory if one wants to seriously start a western occult practice to study the framework of hatha and raja yoga or a taoist cultivation praxisDisagree because this stuff was not a major part of the Western esoteric tradition before the 1800s. There was possibly some Indian influence on Plato, Platonists themselves said so and it is possible since there was trade. So in a very old and indirect way sure. Unironically Greek philosophy and the Bible are going to be more relevant if you are reading and adapting medieval and early modern stuff but people don't want to hear that because of exoticism and rebelliousness.
>>38248196>>38231447>>38231459>>38231698>>382378361. How far did you get in mastering the first difficult exercising (concentrating on a single thought in your mind for 10 minutes without any mental interruptions)? - Like how long can you last.2. What did you concentrate on and how did you do the exerciser?3. How long did it take to get to your current duration?
>>38269698If you want to deal with the esotericism of a model sure, but to clearly understand in a practical manner how the fundamental energetic framework works you need to turn to yoga or taoist cultivation/TCM. In western models you work with the energy framework indirectly, like i said, because there's a thick esoteric wall enveloping it. You can spend years trying to decipher the energetic framework of the model by tapping the wall, or you can study an eastern energetic framework for a couple weeks to get a comprehensive peek of what's behind the wall and immediately understand the intent behind the practice and how the esoteric elements tie in.Nowadays it's not efficient to rely on others to help you navigate the model, people have turned grifters or delusional through assumption after assumption of the esoteric elements and their dynamics, they basically have gone retarded by bumping their head on the wall trying to open a hole in it. Study an eastern framework first and save yourself all kinds of trouble in your western practice.
>>38269771That's not the point of the first exercise. The point of the first exercise is to maintain awareness separated from the flow of imagination, your "train of thought", usually awareness is submerged in it. The exercise wants you to pull your awareness back and just observe the flow of thoughts in front of you without getting sucked in.A lot of people have trouble with this first exercise because they don't get exactly what it means or how it should feel, but it's a foundational skill so it's one of the most important. When you close your eyes and observe the black of the eyelids you can easily notice your awareness, "the observer", you need to keep this awareness always present and sturdy while you observe thoughts, that's the exercise. Usually awareness gets sucked in into the thoughts and becomes characters in it, it gets lost in the vortex of imagination, that's what you're trying to avoid.
>>38269895>That's not the point of the first exerciseI said the "first DIFFUCULT exercise", not the first one. The first one is observation of thoughts, I've already done that, that one wasn't hard, in fact when I just try to observe by thoughts nothing happens, my mind is almost blank, but when I try to focus on a single thought I will get interruptions every now and then.You aren't really addressing the exercise I asked about.
>>38269967That's just shamatha, the fuel of shamatha is attention and attention is atrophied in most people, there's no way around it other than to just practice daily. Using a kasina like a black dot on a sheet of paper or a candle flame is the easiest way to train attention.Achieving 10 minutes of shamatha or single pointed concentration becomes way easier if you're applying the observer state to it, which is why is the first exercise of all.
>>38269994>>38269771>1. how long can you last?>3. How long did it take to get to your current duration?
>>38270015With the observer state there is no limit to how long you can last other than physiological limiters like sleep, urination, etc. The moment you understand how to switch in and out of the observer state you get to do this. When i was raw dogging single pointed concentration in buddhist fashion i'd say it took me about a couple months to manage a full minute of uninterrupted attention on the object of meditation. The moment you apply the observer state to it it just runs on automatic, all you have to do is to center awareness to prevent it from getting sucked back in into the mess, it tries to move constantly so you just get used to giving awareness little nudges to keep it in place without losing your attention and concentration on the object.
>>38226676Haha nigga afraid of his own thoughts
>>38269800Suggest a book for understanding the chakra based framework
>>38271724Dharana Darshan. If you're gonna study a framework you should explore more than one book though. In my opinion taoist cultivation practices are superior when it comes to the engagement with the energetic system, so i took that route.
>>38271742Nevermind then, can you suggest something that would give me an intermediate level understanding of the chinese framework? Short reads preferred but anything's fine
>>38271751Well, i could give a list, but if i need to shave it down as much as possible and the objective is to understand the energetic framework then i'd suggest "secret of the golden flower" and "the yellow emperor", but you will probably hate reading these so you can just go with western authors like damo mitchel, he has a general comprehensive introduction to neigong "comprehensive guide to daoist neigong" which is quite practical and gives one of the best guides on the wuji posture which is like the taoist equivalent of the lbrp but in posture format. Just as long as you're studying the framework keep the first two books around even if you don't read them fully or you just peruse them.
>>38269667Yes, the purpose is to balance yourself. Step 3/4 is when you start working directly with the elements, and you should have made good progress with your black mirror, and done the techniques used to get rid of those traits.The idea is that once you start working with the elements a lot of your negative traits naturally fall off. However, if you're really unbalanced, havent done the self introspection, then the negatives of each element is amplified. for example, if you are an angry person, then when you work with fire that anger will get much more intense, and knock you further out of balance. That's the main danger. Again, bardon has put many warnings
>>38226491It was one of my first. It's very good but ignore all the shit where it talks about muh hermetic polarity and all that. It's not the text for it.Focus on the breathing stuff and the mental control. Most important.
>>38226707I used to live in a place called mount carmel. What’s it about anon?
>do breathing meditation stuff on the bus>Go on escalator and there's a guy Infront of me >I get the idea that I'd try imagine I touch him on the upper right arm.>He then turns his to look on his right shoulder and then behind at me as if he noticed something touching him.
>>38271775Thanks anon, I'll add those to my low priority reading list. I started with the chakra book however and I'm liking it so far.
>>38236296>there are other branches of magic that deal exclusively with self-purificationWhich ones?
>>38273061Never knew the full lyric just the magnets part because of the meme. Crazy shit.
>>38273222For example the entirety of the Golden Dawn teachings, which is a basis for a majority of ceremonial practices that are in use in present day.the Golden Dawn taught nothing but self-purification and spiritual development in the outer order. it is only people who come to it now that tend to jump ahead of themselves since they have the material that's been published for some time now, but that's not the traditional waybased on these teachings you have books like 'Self-initiation' by the Ciceros that gives clear instructions as to the traditional order and way of workless traditional but still based on these teachings you have books like 'Modern Magic'something that goes in an entirely new direction, but is still focused on spiritual progress is Damien Echols' 'angels and archangels'. it is his own creation, but seems to be working for people and it's a nice new approach instead of just repeating all that was said beforeJohn Michael Greer in his book on geomancy gives a method of working and development using a combination of scrying, divination, meditation and ritual magic based entirely on geomantic figures. He also has a course in self-development based on sacred geometry, but I'm not familiar with ityou can also use evocation as a method of spiritual development. you can use books like Arbatel to your advantage and evoke spirits to give you guidance and instructions. you can do the same with archangels
>>38273222>>38274075and how could I forget the Abramelin book, which is basically a system in and of itself
>>38274075How would you rate what Bardon proposes as a system for purely self purification and development? I don't really feel that comfortable making evocations to dubious entities, whether they come from Bardon, Arbatel, Abramelin etc. What about Regardie's books, do they present a system like Bardon's or the latter is more objective and practical for spiritual development?
>>38269604>posts another meme that stopped being funny 10 years ago
>>38271775Hello do you have any book recommendations for learning tarot?
I started doing these exercises. First thing that happens is that I get a power outage. Is this normal?
>>38274086No proof the Abramelin even works. There's not even anons larping about having completed it.
>>38278259there's no proof that magic works other than your own experience
>>38276510Regardie's books are almost pure Golden Dawn (he published 'the Golden Dawn's after all). his '12 steps' book is a dumbed-down version that has similar aim that the outer order, but without as much ritual. he was a proponent of the opinion that you don't REALLY have to do the elemental purification work, just go for union with your higher self straight away. he did recommend psychotherapy though if we compare Bardon with GD method, they have similar (if not the same) goal, but different methods. Bardon uses almost exclusively meditative methods, GD focuses more on symbolic action (ritual). both have you traverse elemental realms to purify yourself; Bardon uses scrying/astral projecting into the elemental realm, GD has you invoke elemental energies into your aura. Bardon has you meditate and write down your faults and then ascribe them to the elements, while working the GD method your faults will come to light on their own and you will be forced to work on them. the ultimate goal of both is to first purify yourself, then contact and finally become one with you higher selfI don't believe any method to be more objective or subjective than the other. these terms don't really apply from the perspective of spiritual experienceas to entities - Bardon does have a whole book dedicated to evocation, while GD, having their method to evoke spirits, don't really require you to do so at any point in time if you don't really want to. their method is more concentrated on invoking the powers into yourself. in both cases you will be very advanced before you even attempt evocation so I wouldn't really worry about it at this point
>>38278285What people don't understand is that magic is not democratic or scientific, so it doesn't have to work for everyone, the important thing is that it works for you.
>>38278285>>38278896This is post modern nonsense. The important thing is not that 'it works for you' that's how people confuse the mystical with The Secret™ vision board placebo manifestation garbage. The important thing is that it's true. If it's true, it's real, if it's not, it's not. Truth is not 'proof' as proven means justified as the only possibility and you can't justify truth as the only possibility because truth is what justifies things as possibilities. The mystical is not illogical, you can't 'prove' logic but if you're not sarkical beyond hope you can recognize it when you see it.
>>38278285>>38278896There are consistent frameworks for magic so it's not entirely a subjective experience.The problem with this is there are three groups, the group that respects the frameworks and understands the importance of fundamentals, the group that thinks magic is some sort of glorified LoA that you can whip out on a whim as long as you believe in it, and the exoteric group that completely ignores the frameworks and fundamentals and think drawing a sigil on the ground or chanting some words they don't understand is going to turn the cosmic laws upside down in their basement.The vast majority of people belong to the last two groups. The frameworks of magic are a science, applying the "creative" part without these frameworks amounts to nothing.
>>38278943Whenever someone describes three kinds of people, it's always platonists, aristotelians, and epicureans, in that order.
>>38264678Ur cool.
>>38276964Not that anon, but what do.you want to learn about tarot
>>38278961>>38278937This kind of 4chan posting, with the thoughtful reaction images, is so pure. Brings me back to 2008
>>38278937>>38278943of course, truth has an existence separate from your experience of it. it also has existence apart from proof of any kindeven if you obtain verifiable results with magic, what proof is it for someone who doesn't believe it? one can always rationalize, say this is a coincidence etc. thus I believe the only way to be absolutely certain about whether magic does indeed work is to do it yourself and experience it's effects on you and your surroundings. this is just the same as with any experience; you can believe that the food on the menu in the restaurant is great, but then you can taste it and really verify this truth for yourself beyond any doubt. of course with this argument we could start an entirely new discussion about the food not having taste in itself, but only the potential of taste that is realized when it comes into contact with our taste buds and so on and so on, but this is the case with almost everythingtl;drtruth is there, the only way we can really know it is to experience it ourselves
>>38226491Before this thread is archived, I want to thank all the participants.
>>38279163This is exactly the attitude that is required for the Bardon path. You are actively encouraged to be skeptical, question what is written, and only accept truth when you yourself experienc and know it to be true.Even the elementals, are ultimately just a very useful framework as opposed to ultimate truth
>>38278943>the group that thinks magic is some sort of glorified LoA that you can whip out on a whim as long as you believe in it>The frameworks of magic are a science, applying the "creative" part without these frameworks amounts to nothing.>you can't do magic unless you suck off rich fuckers in some masonic lodge. magic doesn't work unless you use what it says in that book from the 3th century BC. nooo bro you can't just feel what is right you have to do as this anonymous writer (whom is probably a fraud anyways) says.you are no better than the worst kind of protestants.go kill yourself for gatekeeping magic
>>38279369yes, I believe it's the approach that is required with all of magical practices. it is very easy to deceive oneself if you start believing something without actually experiencing it. even Crowley warned against it
>>38279413Exactly. I mean, technically at the start you sort of have to blindly believe certain things, but still actively looking for proof through experience.Bardon path is popular precisely because it requires the least blind belief initially. At least, thats my understanding.
>>38279415well maybe, but on the other hand IIH describes some pretty crazy abilities that it claims you can work your way up to. that is, if you read the whole book before jumping into practice. the GD never really describes any abilities you can posses, it has you doing exercises without really telling you what to expect (expect maybe really broad strokes). I like this approach, it teaches you to do the work without expecting anything, an essential skill in magical practice
Recently got this book and in the very first chapter it says that in the tarot, the symbol of the sword relates to the element of fire and the one of wands to the element of air. But other (more commomplace) sources say the contrary, who is right?
>>38278442Thank you for the extensive reply.I've lurked into western esotericism for a while now, and I did my research into what it exists and digitally saved probably 90% of the books from all authors mentioned in this thread so far. Why did I do it? Mostly for the sake of it and to publish them on archive.org.Now I've personally never put any of the systems and practices in action mostly due to fear. Mostly due to stories I've read, and to what I've been personally told about people that got into really deep trouble while trying to contact or evoke spirits / entities. Thus my concern for evocations. Is it unfounded? Probably and even if I rationalise that and it's probably unhelpful to think that way it still feels like there's something in the background telling me not to do it. My main objective would be striving for more self control, to be able to react more positively to all external stimuli and at least try to own some of the emotions instead of helplessly being owned by them. Or as you summed up, to purify oneself.Your reply was very helpful for I need to decide a system I can engage with. And as you said, there's no method more objective or subjective than the other but the info you've provided is helpful. I suppose I'll start with Bardon but any more input would be appreciated (even though you've already said it all)
>>38279640Why does it matter? It's all symbolism that you can just use as a visual device? It makes sense in his model that the sword is the fire element of destruction and the wand the wind element of motion. Don't get caught up in the details.
>>38279984>It's all symbolism that you can just use as a visual device? It makes sense in his model that the sword is the fire element of destruction and the wand the wind element of motionactive and passive destruction of the 4 elements and the existence of the 5th element?
>>38279933yeah we tend to overthink things, that's what we're taught to doin my opinion there's no other way than to start. you don't have to continue with a given system if you feel you don't want to, so there's no need to wait for anything and no reason to be afraid of commitmentmy suggestion would be to start doing the LBRP once a day regardless of what path you choose. this will work on it's own and bring you more understanding. it takes around 7m to do and can be done regardless of the path you choose to follow
>>38280019Right. But it's all symbolic. So as long as you're consistent I don't think it matters if it's a sword or a rock.
>>38279385>gatekeeping magicYou're hopeless. Maybe i should've added a fourth group, the retarded victim.
>>38280441nta, magic has so far felt very gatekept. its written in another language
>>38280594There are underlying frameworks connecting every tradition's magical praxis, and these frameworks are all accessible through mainstream channels such as your local Barnes & Noble or Google, so the only thing gatekeeping magic is one's laziness and nearsightedness.
>>38278943What occult books would you recommend for practice (not looking for books that are mostly focused on theory and you don't practice).Leave out Initiation Into Hermetics, that one is obvious, everybody knows about that one. I'm looking for ones I haven't read yet.
>>38281014Kabbalah Magic
>>38281032By who? (that title seems really generic, like a lot of books might have that as their title).
>>38279385>Learning is gatekeeping, truth is feeling, education is fraudI know what kind of person you are.
>>38279055Thanks anon, I've been here a while.
>>38280441>You're hopeless. Maybe i should've added a fourth group, the retarded victim.depressing honestly. watching so many anons succumb to their worst fears. you fear being strong and trusting yourself. you prefer to place all your faith in exterior frameworks. but that's just you babe. not everyone needs to be told what to do. some can just read a book and practice what matters to them.>>38280594>nta, magic has so far felt very gatekept. its written in another languagenot that big of a problem, the problem however is the continuity of magical tradition. i for one love solomonic magic. but guess what? the book that i have, the pentacles that are in it, they aren't the same ones Solomon used if he even used any. it's all a big larp by somewhat apt magicians (since all the stuff there worked perfectly for me). if solomon even wrote that book it 100% would be in some private collection. that's what >>38280441 doesn't understand. the frameworks he is using aren't the original ones. they have either been lost in translation or are being gatekept somewhere in the fucking vatican.>>38280730>There are underlying frameworks connecting every tradition's magical praxis, and these frameworks are all accessible through mainstream channels such as your local Barnes & Noble or Google, so the only thing gatekeeping magic is one's laziness and nearsightedness.as i said above you can't trust the authenticity of the framework. if i were presented the original manuscript of solomon's key written in ancient hebraic you can be damn sure i would start studying hebrew right this second. but let's be honest it's all a somewhat big larp. some powerful magician thinks he's got everything covered, writes a book, faggots 300 years later think his book is the goddam book of mormon
>>38281085>Kabbalah, Magic & the Great Work of Self Transformation: A Complete Course—Lyam Thomas ChristopherGolden Dawn elemental grade system adapted for solo practice.
>>38281094>>Learning is gatekeeping, truth is feeling, education is fraud>I know what kind of person you are.the fuck did you say to me little shit?!?you are now putting words in my own mouth that i didn't say? where i'm from we have a saying "whoever puts shit in other peoples mouths shall eat it himself". you are trying to spout some orwellian bullshit when that has nothing to do with what i said.i very clearly said that magic has to be experienced by you in your own way not what some fag wrote 300 years ago. and now you are claiming truth is feeling. you fucker how do you know if your mom loves you? because you feel it go fuck yourself.you are lucky i've got some composure after my national team lost at the euro's today otherwise i would have cursed you right here right now.
>>38281014Modern Magic - Donald Michael KraigCircles of Power - John Michael GreerSelf-initation into the Golden Dawn tradition - CicerosHigh Magic - Damien EcholsKabalah for health and wellness - Mark Stavish
>>38281110>you prefer to place all your faith in exterior frameworks. but that's just you babe. not everyone needs to be told what to do. >i for one love solomonic magic. but guess what? the book that i have, the pentacles that are in it, they aren't the same ones Solomon used if he even used any. it's all a big larp by somewhat apt magicians (since all the stuff there worked perfectly for me). if solomon even wrote that book it 100% would be in some private collection. that's what >>38280441 doesn't understand. the frameworks he is using aren't the original ones. they have either been lost in translation or are being gatekept somewhere in the fucking vatican.It's like you really want to get into science, but really hate acknowledging reality. And, to ease this cognitive dissonance, you rationalize that nobody else acknowledges reality either by saying that all the other scientists aren't really working with reality because they don't have an authentic copy of the first book on physics ever written any more than you do. It's all relative because you're both reading a book with 'physics' on it and just because they believe physics are real and actually get things done while you don't and don't is irrelevant, and your rocket ship will be ready any day now.>>38281135>you fucker how do you know if your mom loves you? because you feel it go fuck yourselfOh, really? I know because mine told me herself. I know it's true and don't have to guess from vibes and my own base perceptions filtered through my biases, you mundane reprobate.
>>38281118Thanks, I'll check that out too, but do you know of any that are more "neutral". Golden Dawn stuff tends to have a heavy Christian leaning and I'm not trying to invoke any angels, christian entities, or any entities period at the beginning of my practice.>>38281136Will look into it. You can address the question above too if you want, it applies to some of your recommendations.
>>38281158>https://medium.com/forbidden-realms/meditation-versus-ritual-1c59067c5fc9Maybe check this article out by the same author. You might need to make an account to read it, idk. A condensed version of the work in the book is laid out without any religious imagery attached.That said, you don't need to be a Christian to use GD work—but you do have to be ok with using some names and symbols.
>>38281158>>38281198>https://medium.com/forbidden-realms/meditations-darkest-secret-c8f3bb7a1ca0Wrong article, sorry. This is the one I meant to link.
>>38281014This is going in circles, you don't need practice, you need to understand the frameworks first, what the practice is trying to do will be lost on you without understanding the frameworks, or rather you won't be able to practice adequately.Golden Dawn, Bardon's hermeticism, buddhist models, hindu models, taoist cultivation models, traditional witchcraft, they all use the same frameworks. As i said several times in the thread, you're better off starting with studying taoist cultivation models to directly understand the energetic framework and then you can move onto anything you want and you won't get stuck in any esoteric pits. Understand qi, its elemental components and the meridian system, then you will understand Bardon's fluids and energy centers, you will understand the hindu's prana, chandra, surya and their nadis, you will understand witchcraft's primal craft and their use of classical elements, you will understand hermetic qabalah's Jachin and Boaz, in short you will understand what most people don't understand when they simply head straight to these systems, and that's the most important fundamental framework, the one that defines practice and most people can't comprehend because they can't get past the esoteric forms of each model, this is why you enter through taoism which doesn't conceal the energetic framework.
>>38281158magic is a western system, and western symbolism prevails. if you're not comfortable, maybe it's worth looking into some eastern traditions like tantra, yoga, qi gong and so on. unfortunately I don't know any practical books about this. if you want to dip your toes into eastern thought, I highly recommend Rene Guenon and his books on eastern mysticism. also highly valuable but sometimes overlooked books on the subject are 'doctrine of awakening' and 'yoga of power' by Julius Evolaif you want to use a psychological model, I recommend Roberto Assagioli's 'Psychosynthesis'
>>38281204>you're better off starting with studying taoist cultivation modelsKnow any good resources?
>>38281204not true, it is a perfectly valid approach to start practicing without understanding. it works anyway and you start understanding more through the practice. you can always learn along the way
>>38281204Understanding does not equal capability, and I'm not looking to just stroke myself off about how knowledgeable I am, I want real occult abilities that I can literally use in real life, and if that is even possible you won't get it from merely understanding, you need practical skills from training.Also, you said this is going in circles, lets cut the circle short and get straight to the point.1. What do you do for a living?2. What practical occult abilities do you have? I don't mean "I saw a vision" or "I felt some energy", that's all vague subjective unprovable nonsense. I mean what can you do to affect physical and observable reality in some way (I don't mean shooting fireballs from your hand either as even if that's possible it's unfair for me to expect that).>>38281203>>38281209Thanks.
>>38281219Feel free to approach it however you want, if you develop disruptive, unproductive or even harmful habits because of unguided and/or misconstrued fundamentals or just a complete lack of them, then you're on your own.>>38281211Comprehensive readings>the web that has no weaver: understanding chinese medicine by Ted Kaptchuk>the root of chinese qigong by Yang Jwing-Ming>a manual of acupuncture by Peter Deadman and Mazin Al-Khafaji (the point here isn't acupuncture, but their representation of the meridians)>a comprehensive guide to daoist neigong by Damo MitchellThen you have the hard to swallow classics>tao te ching by Laozi>the yellow emperor's classic of medicine (Huangdi Neijing)>the secret of the golden flower>the book of balance and harmony>Understanding Reality: The Wu Zhen Pian>The Inner Teachings of Taoism by Chang Po-tuanThese aren't necessary if you just want a base understanding of the energetic framework, but they provide thorough nuance and are the cornerstones of taoist literature.
>>38281287Anon, relative to the common person, I have read a lot of Daoist material. Much of it is highly esoteric (e.g. it sounds lime this totally made up sentence "enter the autumn path and directly go to the jade temple wherein shall be the pearl and take this pearl and return it to the light of the red moon). And there are like 50k energy points, 100k channels. In the end it seemed like ancient advertisement to confuse ppl persuading them "something is wrong" so they'd go pay a chinese medicine guru, who supposedly had deep esoteric knowledge and could sort thru the hyper complex crap, for help. Tcm appears ultra scammy to me. But i do agree with your point that understanding basics of oriental energy teachings can accelerate a person's journey on western occultism. That's been my personal experience. But i have to say tcm and oriental energy 'magic' really disappointed me, eventually. I am a westerner, and live in a western country. I have seen plenty of fellow westerners engage in the oriental path and its destroyed many of them. Dion fortune stated, a 100 yrs ago, that the oriental path is impractical at best, and dangerous at worst, for westerners living in a western society, and based on my life experience i agree with her. I think orientalism became hyper complex and if a westerner wants to gain power from it they must cut it down, reduce it, simplify it, take that knowledge and then move into a sysyem of western occultism
>>38281241Psychic abilities of the caliber you're seeking rely on internal work, also known as internal alchemy, and internal alchemy runs on the underlying energetic framework all models use. If you don't experiment with the mixing of chemicals without proper knowledge first, i don't see why you would blindly want to experiment with the mixing of your internal energies. This is what people are trying to do every time they ignore the fundamentals and head straight for the practice. And no, i have never said once you should give up practice and become an arm chair occultist, i'm just telling people to get their priorities straight, for their own sake, i'm not getting anything out of this.>1. What do you do for a living?>2. What practical occult abilities do you have? I don't mean "I saw a vision" or "I felt some energy", that's all vague subjective unprovable nonsense. I mean what can you do to affect physical and observable reality in some way (I don't mean shooting fireballs from your hand either as even if that's possible it's unfair for me to expect that).You're not getting any of that, you either try to understand what i'm saying or you don't, i'm not gonna shove it down anyone's throat. And no one's going to send their curriculum to you as a means of boosting their credibility if they're just trying to help.
>>38281355As i said, i just recommend the cultivation models as an entry point to the rest of models, western models included. The eastern traditions, specially the taoist models engage directly with physical energy frameworks and mishaps have physical consequences, western models are just as dangerous because they use the same framework, they just engage with most subtle layers with it, their mental health when a mishap happens is the one to suffer the brunt of the blow. But in any case, incorrect western practice will also have lesser physical consequences because the layers and the energetic framework aren't isolated elements.It's all dangerous.
Most western people get filtered out by the the first stage of 'solve' this is when simultaneously structure is removed and an exoansion beyond the personal psychological construct is experienced and on top of that the 'natural' energies of light and dark, hot and cold, dry and wet, masculine and feminine, are allowed to flow chaotically which is the point where plenty of people enter into 'psychosis' or experience 'abreaction'. In eastern systems the seeker is guided thru this via 2 generic methods: ritual 'demon' purification or hyper austere 'pure witnessing' of the zen kind. In the west ppl will get sent to psychiatrists instead and then drugged up. Wrangling transpersonal energies and powers is eztremely difficult, often painful. If someone can possess such powers they must also have an extremely strong personal reason for it, a very powerful WHY, and often enough such people are not the kind of people who are safe to be around
>>38281357>You're not getting any of thatLmao, as expected.In other words, like every single other time I asked these questions to someone like you (though the other people were more honest) - "I'm just another wage slave with no tangible and useful abilities that could improve my life"You are in no position to be telling others how to do magic when you yourself can't really use it.>you either try to understand what i'm saying or you don'tNo, you are either wrong about what you are saying or you are right, and without anything to indicate that you are right, there's no reason for anyone else you alter their own path to suit your belief system.Your mindset is ridiculous, it's like a Christian trying to convert a Muslim, and when the Muslim asks - "What about your life indicates that your religion is a better choice" you respond with "You're not getting any of that, just take words as gospel and STFU" lol.You are insane, the only people who will follow your words are the desperate or those who never had a path they were on to begin with (newcomers looking for a start).The conversation was never going in circles, I tried to cut clear through all of the vagueness and you don't want to do that, by "circles" you actually mean nobody is just blindly taking your word as gospel.Good bye and good luck.
>>38281394Oh, you're that buddhist/taoist thread bomber everyone hates.>No, you are either wrong about what you are saying or you are right, and without anything to indicate that you are right, there's no reason for anyone else you alter their own pathThis is what i said, so you're absolutely right, i don't know why you're writing so much. Sort out your frustrations.
>>38281382Indeed.But the GD and others also promoted avoidance of sex magick/blsck magick. Even Crowley, in perhaps strange irony, talked about the 'Black brothers' who almost fully aligned to the inner light but 'fell' to worldly lusts instead.I think western occultism did have some safeguards put in place but the gloves are totally off now, and anything goes.I personally am aware of one international cult that uses sex and blood magick Ive enjoyed reading your posts. Whats your age and whats your daily practice look like? Have any personal rituals you created yourself? And are you a soloworker or do you do groupwork too?
>>38281394Some of us know what its like to fire the magick bullet, we just aren't holding the gun yet, so to speak. The occult path is extremely demanding and isolating, so most ppl get filtered out.
>>38281287>>a manual of acupuncture by Peter Deadman and Mazin Al-Khafaji (the point here isn't acupuncture, but their representation of the meridians)Are there any more affordable alternatives to this one?
>so many threads on here about magic and powers So why can’t we just have a new /OMG/ or /PG/? I like this subject but some of this should be condensed into one general thread.
>>38281416>Some of us know what its like to fire the magick bulletThe word you forgot is THINK, some of you THINK you know what it's like to fire the bullet. If you don't have the gun yet then you've never fired it.I don't think people realize just how much your mind can play tricks on you and control your body, make you feel things that aren't real, make you obey "rules" that aren't actually rules.For example, I've used self hypnosis on myself. Induced Eye Catalepsy to where I could not physically open my eyes no matter what unless I said a specific word, and it was a weird experience as I literally could not open my eyes no matter what (by physically trying).If your brain can do crazy shit like that, you really think it can't make you "feel energy" or other phenomena.The problem is that too many people in the occult space have low standards and don't do proper testing to see if something REALLY happened.Too many people are desperate to FEEL special rather than working towards actually BEING special.>>38281402>i don't know why you're writing so muchI had a lot to say, when I don't my responses are shorter.
>>38281405I'm in my mid 30s, started studying western occultism in my mid teens through physical translations i could find in my country. When i learned english i started syncretizing every model i came across into my paradigm and started unearthing the fundamental frameworks that can be seen as patterns when you study several models from different traditions. My daily practice is pretty tame compared to a decade ago or so, i used to do the lbrp for 12 hours straight on the weekends and combine qigong postures with vipassana throughout the week, usually from around 6 pm to 10pm~12am, i thought i needed to suffer through it in an exaggerated manner if i wanted to develop anything, i don't regret it although i would have "adjusted" it if i had to go through it again.My current daily practice consists of my personal short, repeatable rituals to cover my essentials, which are maintaining a responsive qi, clean channels and clashing my yin qi with my yang qi because every time i do it i experience a burst of highly concentrated qi that harmonized my whole system, similar to a flash version of the lbrp. Then i practices some standard rituals if i feel the need or the want for it, but not regularly.I do have my own rituals, usually modifications of standard ones that i find could use the help of elements from a different model. And yes, i've always been solo.
>>38281494None of what i experienced had anything to do with my conscious thought. I was young and had very little desire to be special. I wasn't practicing anything occult. Had never read anything occult. But I hadmany moments where the bullet fired. Finally, acter a decade of hell, i cracked open some occult books and began to read things that were explaining my reality, and this stuff was written a century ago.The grand game is that once a person obtains the gun they, generally speaking, have zero desire to use it. So the for all the talk of occult powers it is largely emanating from uncontrolled/immature egos. Clearly I agree with many of your points. I just affirm that occult powers absolutrly exist. Just the occultist who has such powers realizes that the entirely of reality is "occult powers" and generally speaking they are thus so satisfied with the eternal mystery, and living as the inner light in totality, that they have very little reason to utilize occult powers. I say this as a worm who has not yet become the eagle, on 4chan of all places. But isn't it ironic that the Great Work removes 'specialness'? You'd have to be crazy to be on this Path. Most people will choose wordliness and develop their own special 'occult' powers, like how a C.E.O. of a large multi-nat can generate huge impacts in the world simply via his words which are empowered by the identity he posseses which exists as a simultaneous construct in the minds of a sufficient amount of people, who are all in collective agreement of that manufactured reality, thus endearing this guy with demi-god like powers.>>38281510Did you do lbrp for 12 hrs because it felt good, or was it to be better than someone else, or simply you thought more suffering meant bigger rewards? Thats a big achievement and is impressive. That stuff you do with wi sounds like a potent 'system-reset'. Did you develop that to help you navigate society?
>>38281564Qi* not wiDo you practice any semen retention? I am having a lot of fun with that. It's been my most difficult challenge for the past 5 years. I did 1.5 years of solo isolation meditation and the general outcome was "there is a much greater power than me" and basically everything came down to sex energy and semen retention, for me.
>>38281564>Did you do lbrp for 12 hrs because it felt goodI'm surprised you asked that specifically, because yes, that was pretty much the reason. I initially started doing lbrp for one hour, but after half an hour or so if i remember correctly i lost track of time and ended up doing it for 2 hours. The effects felt so great and the experience was so tangible and transformative i decided to just practice it without time limit from that moment on. I encourage anyone to practice the lbrp for a few hours straight, back to back, 2,3 or 4 hours, at least once, then you'll understand why i did it for 12 hours.My qi workings are just based off of your run of the mill neigong, i have been reckless with it in the past, i've had accidents and i've learned to only do what i'm sure i can afford to do, and the affording comes with understanding of frameworks, in this case the channels mainly.
>>38281110>they have either been lost in translation or are being gatekept somewhere in the fucking vatican.sad that is the case for so many of the native tribes to the americas right now and of the druids
>>38281622Yeah i had to ask as I recently started doing the lbrp and each time inconclude the ritual I experience great joy and bliss. This made me realize i could possibly do lbro for several hours and feel amazing That is interesting about the neigong. Thanks for your replies and answers. I notice i still have a palpable aversion to chinese energy work, despite the fact I am constantly trying to improve my semen retention practice. Perhaps its just a stage of the path i am in. I do lots of energy circulation all during the day and night, so I am not totally against energy cultivation at all. I think maybe i dislike how intensely chinese energy study attempts to be so medical. I'd rather cultivate inner light than obsess and worry over if my 16th meridian is blocked and whether that will give me warts, a headache, or a boil. I dont mean to sound dismissive as its an ancient practice. I just struggle to move past how this chinese energy stuff seems to be so heavily associsted with old lady ailments. Just sharing my thoughts as they come right now. >>38281655Unfortunately they got rekt. Especially the druids.
>>38281564>generally speaking they are thus so satisfied with the eternal mystery, and living as the inner light in totality, that they have very little reason to utilize occult powers.Everybody knows this is bullshit said by every person ever who has no abilities. It's just funny that the people who say this have nothing in their life that affirms their abilities, and yet all of these wealthy elites that are part of secret occult societies (e.g. skull and bones, etc) are clearly dominating everyone else in life, which just lends one to believe that they do in fact have occult powers.The powerless are always saying that nobody with power would use it, and yet when you look at reality it seems like those in power do in fact use it, and the powerless have to work for them for scraps.I don't buy that nonsense, never will, observable reality contradicts this belief.It's funny how people keep parroting this lie you said and yet the elites that rule over all of us are clearly occultists.I think I'll take their actions for it, rather than take your word for it.Pic related - Bohemian Grove ceremony.The membership includes a lot of elites and well connected people, including American presidents.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bohemian_Club_membersIDK, maybe I'm crazy, but maybe the occultists who rule over the random poster on 4chan know more about what occultists would do with magic than the random poster who is subject to their rule. >But I hadmany moments where the bullet firedThe only people who are this vague are those doing it on purpose because they know they are saying BS.You are just spewing vague pointless statements, this doesn't mean anything. Either say specifically what the bullet is or don't say anything at all lol.Or you could save yourself the time and copy and paste some text from this website:https://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
>>38281156i feel humbledthank you anon it all fell in place now. i kinda get what you are saying and i 100% agree with you. how would you proceed?normally i would go with something modern like bardon's book which i know to be authentic since it's so recent or the golden dawn. but what about solomonic magic? the book is fake. it doesn't a take to genius to understand you can't have a grimoire 3000 years old the same as it was written. but why does it work then? isn't it the faith i have that it works? that it just clicks right with me? that's why i argued like that with you. i just can't get it. why does it work when it's fake? does it work just because a lot of people believe it, so it works like an egregore of sorts?>Oh, really? I know because mine told me herself. I know it's true and don't have to guess from vibes and my own base perceptions filtered through my biases, you mundane reprobate.yeah you're right wrong argument.
>>38281709I dont think you understand that Ultimate Power is simplistic, not complex. Yes elites exist and they rule complex systems but its arguable if they ever truly experience bliss. They will experience comfort and euphoria but the cruel twist of fate is that the brain requires more and more input to generate the same euphoria over time, and all material comforts become normalized, so even a trillionaire can experience the same boredom and dissatisfaction that a lower clasd person can. Ergo, materialism and wordly power are of a lesser Power compared to ultimate Power which is transcendent and immanent and impossible to truly be described. You are associating occultic power with wordly power which ironically is a limitation of real occultic power. It's like a self castration. The entire point of occultism is to transcend wordly limitations, embody the inner light, and become twice born, thus experiencing full liberation from the banal bullshit that condemns even ultra rich and powerful people to misery and depression. Evidently, your focus is on wordly power. You only have to study hypnotism and attachment theory to understand 99 percent of wordly power. Gurdjieff already covered this years ago. This is base level stuff for occultism however if people choose to get stuck there that is their choice. I am absolutely aware that wordly power is massively important. I am also simultaneously aware of the non-experience, where the space-time construct collapses upon itself and Total Bliss is realized. I am trying to hold both which is a challenge. I probably havent answered anything to your satisfaction.
>>38281110> that's what >>38280441 (You) doesn't understand. the frameworks he is using aren't the original ones. they have either been lost in translation or are being gatekept somewhere in the fucking vatican.You're lost. The Vatican gatekeeps knowledge derived from universal frameworks, you're not losing the frameworks for not being able to access the Vatican archives, they're present everywhere. If you decide to "ride the vibes" with no base knowledge your magic is called "confirmation bias" and is not magic at all. "I made it rain with my ritual, i swear it was me" I'm tired of seeing this.
>>38281798>your magic is called "confirmation bias" and is not magic at all. "I made it rain with my ritual, i swear it was me" I'm tired of seeing this.i absolutely don't think like this. what i meant is that each magical practice has it's own framework so there is no reason not to create your own. test and see what works and what doesn't what goes together. i was arguing against being simple minded and only following what one book had to say.the only way i'm going to believe i made it rain with my ritual is if in 5 minutes from the ritual the clear sky turns dark grey and it rains like in a tropical storm. any ritual that i do whose result can be a simple coincidence i rule out as being just that. i am not obsessed with believing i'm special. i know i am special since i'm conscious. energy work is essential since you need it to power up any ritual or spell. inner workings are very important without them you are unbalanced
>>38281775>but its arguable if they ever truly experience blissYeah, this sounds like a coping mechanism. You set up this vague, subjective, unverifiable "reward" for your path and then say that the people who don't follow it and clearly have other benefits are "missing out".Sorry, sounds like a scammer trying to sell something.Who gets to decide what is "bliss" for others. I don't think you realize that when everything you say is subjective you can't then argue that someone else is missing out on this subjective thing. Because they could literally just be experiencing their own version of it.However they can in fact say that you are objectively missing out on how amazing your life could be if you were wealthy.That's the difference between subjective and objective. Objectivity is undeniable. We all need to eat, we all need to drink, we all need to sleep, etc. Money helps with all of these things. The value of money in this modern era is objective and undeniable, your "bliss" isn't.Be specific and stop wasting time and words.>You are associating occultic power with wordly power which ironically is a limitation of real occultic power.You conveniently have power that can't be demonstrated and can't benefit you tangibly in your current life?Now apply this logic to a financial investment and tell me if you would invest your money with someone trying to sell you this kind of deal lol.You don't have any power period, it's in your head, that's the point.Testing your power in a worldly way isn't about the worldly things, it's about testing to see whether or not you are delusional so that you'll KNOW (not BELIEVE) that you are actually capable of magic.People like you are too content with simply believing, so you don't really care about doing any testing at all. Like I said, you feel special enough with your own delusions so it doesn't matter to you if it's real or not.1/2
>>38281775>thus experiencing full liberation from the banal bullshit that condemns even ultra rich and powerful people to misery and depression. More of this cope lol. Have you ever considered that doctrine like this was spread by the elites on purpose so that most people would feel content in their real life failures, and feel smug and fulfilled with being ruled?Have you ever considered that this is a psyop?The elites are the ones that decide what information is even available to be read and disseminated.>I probably havent answered anything to your satisfaction.You weren't trying to answer to begin with or else your first response would have simply stated what the "bullet" was instead of vaguely saying "bullet". Your responses are just about proselytizing your naive belief system which only encourages passivity and submission.Now I'll end it here, I've said enough.
>>38226575>>38226676>quieting the mind is hella dangerousSo these two fucking glownigger kikes need to be gassed right now. Do NOT fucking listen to them. You dumb fucking monkey, quieting the mind is how you achieve manifestation, lowering anxiety, basically most of the ills holding you back. And these fucking brown monkeys want you not to do it???? How obvious of an evil shill are these two jeets. You both need to kys or fucking crawl into an oven for the good of humanity.
>>38281869>each magical practice has it's own framework so there is no reason not to create your own. test and see what works and what doesn't what goes together.NTA you were talking to but:1. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. That sounds like a lot of wasted effort, trial and error, etc, for something that will likely result in an inferior and less effective system of magic. Unless you are some natural born genius chosen by the universe (which every schizo poster on 4chan thinks they are).2. They don't all have different frameworks, they have variations that all operate within the same framework. It's like a car powered by electricity, and one powered by gasoline. They are all subject to the same laws of physics, the same chemical laws, etc. They are merely utilizing the same framework of these laws in different ways to achieve the same effect.
>>38281883The subject-object duality is transcended via occultism. Ur ignoring the point that even ultra wealthy people experience the same ennui that lower class people do. Buddha exalted this by announcing attachments are the first error and primary cause of self-generated suffering. Yes we all need to eat, sleep, shit. But subjectively we do those objective things to differing degrees. You are attempting to 'fix' the world seeking answers in the occult. Pretty much every eisdom teacher has said this:The world is fucked and unfixableYou can only 'fix' yourselfNow your reply will be: that is just copeAnd i won't argue against you. Occultism gave me power to glimpse beyond the material realm. Ergo, releasing me from lots of bullshit that causes tremendous neurosis and suffering in billions of people. I am still on the path. Who I was once is basically a completely different person to who i am now. (I was once an addict to multiple substances, i was chaotic, etc). Worldly power exists in people's minds. Notice that worldly power is backed by violence. The threat of vience exists in the mind. >>38281902Ive considered everything you have said. Yes, everything could be a psyop to maintain a slave race. But I urge you to look at the stars, gaze at the cosmos, and ponder the mystery of BEING. Go an meditate in semi solitude for a year and a half like i did. Be a practitioner, take action, DO something. You can argue with me but what have you actually DONE? what have you EXPERIENCED?I am trying to transmit to you things which you are closed off to. You have a very high focus on wordly power. Which I understand. Its frustrating to be a slave. And you hate the power structures. Wouldnt you love to be the one at the top, with all the power and control? Wouldnt that feel so good?
Finally, violence is a serious threat. Torture etc. All of that is real. The cope is real, too. It is why ancient sages called it "the wheel" and they wanted to get off the wheel. The person who fights against the tyrant becomes the next tyrant, the next person who fights against that tyrant, becomes the next one, and so on and so forth. The wheel rolls on. Generally, the idea is that once an occultist reaches a point of power they either are 'corrupted' by the power and become tyrants or they cease interest in 'changing' the world as it would re-introduce them into the wheel of action/karma, cause and effect.And generally they also see the pattern that one person's liberator is another person's dictator. Most ppl want to end this bullshit.
>>38281929i'm sorry for not being specific enough i think i'm just tired.>1. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. That sounds like a lot of wasted effort, trial and error, etc, for something that will likely result in an inferior and less effective system of magic.i'm not trying to reinvent the wheel i'm trying to adapt a standard wheel to work for me. you are not going to use standard slim wheels for racing right? you are going to use thick ones. but you are not going to use thick wheels when you want to save fuel.>2. They don't all have different frameworks, they have variations that all operate within the same frameworkyes that's what i meant.
>>38281952>Ur ignoring the point that even ultra wealthy people experience the same ennui that lower class people do.You are ignoring the point that:1. This is not quantifiable but I'm pretty sure they experience it way less2. Even if they experience it, their lives are still objectively better lol.The millionaire cries because his yacht got destroyed in an accident and the poor wage slave cries because his car got totaled in an accident. They might both experience the same level of sadness if their brains were analyzed using neurological devices, but guess what, one of them OBJECTIVELY has more to cry about and OBJECTIVELY has it worse than the other.Rich people get depressed sometimes too, big whoop, their lives are still better.Really think about this logically, if everybody is going to get depressed anyways, wouldn't you rather be depressed with better, more convenient, and less stressful living circumstances? lolThis isn't rocket science.Would you rather be suicidal, alone and homeless or suicidal with a stable job and loving family that cares about you?You are really speaking like this is complicated and it's simple as hell.>But I urge you to look at the stars, gaze at the cosmosNah i'll leave that the people like you who want to skip steps, I can do that shit in my astral state when I'm dead.The funny thing about people like you is that in a material world you say - "forget about the material world, focus on the spiritual world that comes after".Have you ever considered that there are people just like you in the "spirit world" that are saying the same thing about some hypothetical world that comes after - "forget about the spirit world, focus on the X world that comes after".On and on it goes, people that keep lying to themselves and coping with - "I'll win in the next world, let the misguided win in this one".Not considering that the entire point is to excel in every world that you are in and then transcend to the next one.
>>38282025I am going to practice being fully on board with you and your world view. I agree any existential philosophic spiritual system that promotes passivity and submissiveness and slavery via cope needs to be eradicated. The powers that be need to be absolutely destroyed, even if it causes worldwide chaos and suffering, even if it throws us all back to the 'dark ages', we must do this to liberate ourselves, become the victors, and prove that we are functional and successful in this material world. Now, what next anon?
>>38282047>The powers that be need to be absolutely destroyedWho said anything about that.>I am going to practice being fully on board with you and your world view.Except you aren't, you are just propping up a strawman so that you could come back with some kinda of attempt of a "gotcha" with lines like this:>Now, what next anon?My world view is really simple.If you can actually use magic (which you clearly can't), how about you PERSONALLY not be a wage slave, not be at the mercy of others, not live a pathetic life.Never said anything about "fighting the power" or anything like that.The way of the universe is that in order for someone to "win" others must "lose". There's always a chain of events in every "win" in your life where someone else "lost" as a result of that (we just choose not to think about it everyday).If you got the woman of your dreams, you stole the woman of another man's dreams.If you got that promotion at work you always wanted, you took that promotion from someone else who wanted it.All these computers and smartphones we get to conveniently enjoy, there's some poor people in Africa being exploited to unsafely mine various metals used in these devices, and there's some poor people in China being exploited to assemble these devices.In order for us to get ANY win, someone has to take a loss.Carnivores and omnivores can only exist if herbivores exist to be eaten.Welcome to reality. The best way to fight this system would be to kill every human on the planet and then yourself, because anything outside of that results in someone else being made to lose so that another person wins.My world view is simple.If I'm working my ass off to gain abilities that allow me to win, I'm going to choose to fucking win. If not, then there's no reason to waste my time and effort gaining the abilities.Common sense.Either play to win or simply don't play, be a spectator.
>>38282129That is good. First step to gaining abilities is semen retention. Add on to this consistent ritual practice of lbrp. Then begin summoning entities to grant you powers. At this point it is imperative to be able to practice detachment/passive awareness so you can sit with the voices of the entities and possibly interact with them if so desired. Eventually, you'll need to engage in blood and sex magick with a willing participant, preferably a lover. This will impart you with tremendous charisma which unlocks the next step: harvesting of spirits. At this point it's time to start a cult. Now moving forward, by utilizing mind control over many spirits you are capable of putting their full material weight into material outcomes. OSHO did this with the development of the commune 'Rajneeshpuram' in America. He had young westerners happily doing manual labour in the heat for 8 to 10 hours a day. His followers constantly saw him in his astral form when he visited them at night. Now, once your commune is set up the next step is to logically challenge the greater power structure (this is likely to be the Gov). This is where Osho failed, he attempted to ensge in politics but he did not win over the spirits of the locals. Then the US gov stepped in and poisoned Osho with radioactive material. Osho never shot fireballs from his hands but he did have crowds of 50k ppl dripping off his every word. With the collective might of his followers he built several communes. I am not sure if this is magical from your pov though. We may need to define magic, power, magical power etc.
>>38282129You can achieve total success in all aspects of life (eudaemonia) AND not dominate others (fire imbalance) on the way to that. Ultimately, you lack imagination.
>The items missing in Bardon's system are a viable method of body training and breath retention.Found in the comments of new Foolish Fish video on IIH. Can someone explain this?
Are you really getting advice from a guy that looks like this?
>>38282285That's a good point, i'm going to shame one of my college professors for being sick and having a shit fashion sense. Thanks anon.
>>38282185>Ultimately, you lack imagination.Now go ahead and tell me how you get a woman without another man who wants her losing out?Do you have the ability to magically clone women?Also notice I never said anything vague like "dominate", I was very specific about using the term "loss" and gave examples.Someone has to lose for you to win, end of story.>>38282178>That is good.>First step to gaining abilities is semen retention. Add on to this consistent ritual practice of lbrp. Then begin summoning entities to grant you powersLMAO, you are insane, good luck with this gamble of yours. First you spout the semen retention nonsense, but the worse part is that your system involves jumping straight to summoning entities lol. I can only wish you luck. You just sound like someone that will end up being possessed, cursed, or killed.
>>38282315Your standard for spiritual leaders should be higher than for college professors. Especially if said spiritual leader claims to be able to cure illnesses and levitate.
>>38282334You're right.
>>38282317Are you Bahai
>>38282317>end of story.As i said, no imagination
>>38282285You mean an absolute PIMP? FUCK YEAH
>>38282334The skeptic is doubtful, but investigates further to separate truth from lies, the fool is doubtful, and moves on.Bardon's story on his appearance is well-documented. His spirit possessed the body at 17 years, taking on all its karma in the process. He was given the task to make the books, and once that was done, he paid off all the karmic debt through illness and death
>>38280044Where would you get the info for LBRP? I suppose I should look what Regardie or Cicero write about it, I guess it's in his tree of life book but I'm not sure.This is the most useful and interesting thread here on /x i've seen this year so far
>>38282857Forget this question, I've seen you answered it before to another anon where you recommended Regardie's book "the Golden Dawn".Regarding an introduction to the TCM framework, any specific acupuncture books?
>>38257719Bardon implies that this can be done. At more advanced levels he says that the magician is able to control the four basic elements at will. The problem lies in the fact that he strongly advocates love and self-respect as the magician's guide. He urges that when you gain these powers you should not use them to make money, surprise your acquaintances or harm anyone.
>>38279286This is one of the best threads I have read in the last few months here
>>38281696What do you mean by energy cultivation anon? Do you mean doing the lbrp? Be specific please.
>>38281470Petition to revive /pg/!
>>38281383>PsychosisThis happened to me and 2 years later getting back into meditation and the occult, been following bardon for a few months now. Could you elaborate on the pure witnessing? Haven't heard about that
Lots of great stuff in this thread. Surprising on this board honestly.Could anyone elaborate on all the "love and compassion" being the one true way stuff? Why are these emotions so praised and hatred/anger bad, from a spiritual POV?
Does anyone know anything about the Shem operation? שֵׁם הַמְּפֹרָשׁ
I have a lot of magical power within me. I am a recently awakened 11. I have a problem, I have a lot of persistent mental illness and so my concentration levels are really bad. How can a schizo or manic gain the focus to do actual magick and create a meaningful life for themselves?
>>38226491If you want to become a Jew like Madonna, do this.This is Kabbalah horseshit, simple Jewish mysticism that works just as good as "scrying" (it doesn't).
>>38283304I do semen retention, and it provides me with immense energy, enough to keep me awake at night, I circulate this energy through my physical system. I direct it so certain areas. I harness it in energy centres. And use it to purify, expand, potentiate my etheric body. Sometimes i will charge tools for ceremony and ritual use. On top of that I also collect all my dispersed energy and conscious call it back in and then I purify it. I also, at times, choose not to speak, nor to gaze, in order to conserve and cultivate my energy.
>>38284063From the perspective of ultimate reality its easy to hate from the individual limited consciousness. But the ultimate reality can only be compassionate and loving as it has everything, it lacks nothing. Ergo, ppl mimic this in order to be godly. Love and compassion are also useful for social wellbeing, but too much van turn a virtue into a vice. This is why one of the two pillars is severity. >>38284391By choosing to do difficult things. The magickal path requires immense will-force and disipline. No bitching or whining allowed.
>>38284918It doesn't work but you're terrified of it. Makes sense.
>>38282712>Bardon's story on his appearance is well-documented. His spirit possessed the body at 17 years, taking on all its karma in the process. He was given the task to make the books, and once that was done, he paid off all the karmic debt through illness and deathwait what? you can't just say that and leaveyou mean he was a spirit that possessed a random kids body? or that he became aware of himself when he was 17? also why would a spirit with its own karma choose to take on another's? although interesting take on the mission to make the books. any resources about bardon's personal life?
>>38285967Yes, supposedly the father prayed his son will be a magician, and god granted this wish. The spirit of Bardon then possessed the boy essentially, taking on the karma of the body. All of it is explained in the book "Frabato the magician". It's written as a novel (not a great piece of fiction but interesting nonetheless) but a lot of it really happened, there is for example tale of him battling a black lodge that really existed.Also have heard adepts can contact Bardon directly too
