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Thread for discussing coffee and coffee adjacent topics

Best brewer and breakfast (3B's) edition

If you're new or confused, start here: https://pastebin.com/UEzwuyLz

If you're old and confused, make any Irish Palestine support youtubes?

Previous thread: >>20419128
>>
>>20436866
The Gourmet has spoken. We must listen.
>>
>>20436878
Goffee helps me too well with intestinal transit.
It reminds me of shitting urine.
>>
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>>20436878
Look at that subtle off-white chrome. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my God, it even has a cwassant...
>>
>>20436878
I fucking love Coffee. It is the only thing I can enjoy without much second thought of what might happen if I indulge.
>>
>>20436878
>3B's
not to be mistaken with the 3C's
>>
>>20437061
>Coffee
>Cig
>Cunt
>>
>>20437128
Cwassant. That's a french man.
>>
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>>20432343
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>>20436878
My mocca pod broke so i decided to use my simple brewing device i bought last year without using it once.
>>
>>20437161
Tastes burnt compared to the other roast.
Not bad just less natural flavors more toasted.
>>
It looks the same in the pic but it was quite a bit darker roast.
I'll try darker next.
>>
>>20437128
All a man needs in the morning
>>
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Cobbee.
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>>20437610
Beautiful as always
>>
>>20437780
Thank you anon. Have a great day.
>>
>>20436878
Da fuq is that spout?
>>
>>20437610
>I don't guzzle down entire chocolate bars, just entire chocolate bunnies
>>
>>20436878
I brought my first ever coffe grinder for 10$, such a life changer, i dont need to buy grinded coffee anymore (they're expensive af here)
any good coffee brands recommendations? I can pay up for more expensive beans since i dont drink that much coffee, so a bag would last me around 2 months either way
>>
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Magical beans, tasted like great coffee, with black chocolate notes mixed with some orange and a twist of almond puff pastry.
Fucking heavenly i tell you.
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>>20437915
The magic goff in question.
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>>20437883
>The special short
spout has been designed so as to "cut
off" the drips (A), thus eliminating a
typical nuisance of ordinary Coffee
Makers (B) (fig. 9).

Richard Sapper was visionary.
>>
>>20438040
Looks like shit anon. Try again.
>>
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>>20438081
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
>>
Anybody do the AeroPress thing? Been using one for a while since I like strong small coffees and was sick of paying out the ass for Nespresso, but only just tried that "Ultimate Aeropress Recipe" thing and was surprised at how well it worked compared to the default method from the press's instructions, made really smooth coffee with no bitterness.
>>
>>20438102
Are you not worried brewing your hot coffee in plastic every day?
It has loads of iterations with different plastics which makes me wary.
>>
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Bought some beans from ‘co.
I have a feeling they won’t be up to snuff for making espresso but they should work fine for iced coffee.
>>
>>20438119
Not him, but the brew time is so short that any potential plastic leaching would be negligible to non-existant. There's already far worse stuff being added to the water by the time it comes out of your tap and even if you filter it there will be trace amounts left over. Even a lot of stainless steel cookware can leach metals like nickel and cadmium, and glass can be fragile. So it's not like the alternatives are perfect. The reality is that your lifestyle choices are infinitely more important to your health than what you decide to brew your coffee in.
>>
>>20438165
>Avoiding plastics isn't a lifestyle choice
Well okay then.
>>
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Light roasted up some Harambé sguèguedekéké La concha detu Padre. Incredible notes of citron, lime and grapefruit are present.
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>>20438552
My endgame grinder made the tomato notes come thru like never before. Spro for aficionados only.
>>
>>20438119
There were legit concerns with old models, but the current ones are made of polypropylene, which is very heat resistant and doesn't have BPAs or anything. As the other anon says the brew times are also very quick so there isn't much opportunity for anything to leach.
>>
>>20438562
Yucky acid :( For me its choccy milkgoff with hazelnuts :)
>>
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>>20438592
>old ones poisened you
>new ones are totes safe
>>
>>20438592
Turns out the polypropylene ones poisoned you too, like the last 6 revisions. New ones are Totally Safe® Tritan.
>>
>>20437905
check the pastebin
i recommend s&w if youre in the states
also if you take that long to drink a bag, id tape over the little vent in the bag after about a week to keep it fresher
>>
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>>20437610
w2c that mug
>>20437915
the fuck is black chocolate
>>
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I was weary, and covfefe was there for me.
>>
>>20439075
Goffveve is always there for you.
>>
>>20439075
Grimfefe.
>>
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Cappuccino vs cafe latte? What we having?
>>
>>20436878
Are coffee pods really leaching plastics into the coffee?
>>
>>20439832
E.S.E. Pods are paper, Nespresso is aluminium, CoffeeB is coffeballs.
You're safe ther is no plastic.
>>
>>20439976
ther isn’t?
>>
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I am in awe at how superior this lil nigga is compared to the low-tier countertop automatic machine I used to have last year, that was about the same price. How consistent it is compared to it, how much better the coffee tastes. Yes, I know for coffeeheads it's not breaking news that cheap espresso machines are trash but there's always an element of doubt when you get into a hobby that seems weirdly expensive. "Am I falling for a meme?" you ask yourself.

But surprisingly, no, after an initial period of adjusting grind settings and settling on a technique, this thing is miles ahead of a cheap automatic machine.

I do have a question about my experience with it, just to check if I'm doing something wrong or if this is an experience everyone has. Since getting into specialty coffee, I've had espresso at two different roasters and I find their coffee has no noticeable character, flavor notes, or acidity. It's not overextracted, it's not bitter, but it's just sort of there. No undesirable characteristics but nothing that makes it interesting to taste, and absolutely no acidity whatsoever. So am I just training my tastebuds to enjoy underextracted coffee with the Picopresso or is coffeeshops dialing in their espresso to have a bit of a higher extraction a thing.
>>
>>20440050
brewing coffee is not a hobby
>>
>>20440062
I am 10000% sure I didn't ask
>>
>>20440066
irregardless, it's not a hobby.
>>
>>20440073
that's okay
>>
>>20440045
You chose this one?
>>
>>20439832
nestle wouldn't sell pods if they were harmful for the consumer
>>
>>20440085
weren't*
>>
I like to order from SW Coffee which was recommended to me from here. Their coffees are crazy good, and their prices are also the best (IMO). Relatively cheap for such banging coffee. Is there any other good/best places to order from online; or do you have a personal favorite? I'm in the US
>>
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Left my moka pot without washing it for a few days. Now it has a few small black spots in the bottom chamber. It's an aluminium Moka Express, so it's either aluminium oxide or mould.

Tried giving it a wipe with soap (yep) and it's not coming off. Internet recommends white vinegar, lemon juice, or bleach. Before I make a mistake, what would you guys suggest?

(For what it's worth I have made coffee with it since, and it's fine. So probably just aesthetic.)
>>
>>20440050
>So am I just training my tastebuds to enjoy underextracted coffee with the Picopresso or is coffeeshops dialing in their espresso to have a bit of a higher extraction a thing.
Have you tried their beans at home and got more acidic results or are you trying different beans to what you've drunk at their cafes?
>>
>>20440121
One time it was the same beans I picked up later, yes. And i've had a v60 at one of the roasters and that was very very similar to what I get at home in terms of flavor with my v60. Only the espressos have been different.
>>
>>20440114
i just kinda ignore it, it's definitely not mold cause, you know, boiling water would kill it immediately
>>
>>20440045
I stayed in a place that had a huge gold one of these. The coffee tasted good. I think they're so pretty but are they actually worth the price?
>>
>>20440133
So firstly coffee is very subjective and there's quite a big window of wiggle room for "I prefer it this way," vs "I prefer it that way." But by the nature of the Picopresso being hard to maintain temperature through an extraction it's easy to make something more acidic than perhaps the roaster intends you to taste it. You can try and adjust your grind or dose or try some other variables but if you like what you're getting out of it I wouldn't overthink it too much. The Picopresso is a pretty rad little tool, I think. I sometimes take one on work trips.
>>
>>20438628
>phtalate
yikes
>>
>>20440114
toothbrush and elbow grease, the internet is taking the piss on you
>bleach
>aluminium
lol
>>
>>20440082
I'm saving for one
>>20440141
>are they actually worth the price?
They last forever and don't depreciate in value at all. I've never seen a second hand one for more than a 30% reduction on new price.
>>
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>>20440139
Yeah that image I found it's clumps of something, could be mould or rust. Peeked into mine with a light and magnifying glass: it's tiny flecks plus a larger spot that turned out to be a fucking hole. Oh well.

>>20440188
I wouldn't risk bleach tbqh, but then again I have no idea what would happen. I've done the water + vinegar rinse with my old one, worked fine (and it's probably a bit more food-safe).
>>
>>20440239
>but then again I have no idea what would happen
its trivial to google the ingredients of a cleaning product and its material compatibility with what you want to clean
some oven cleaner could do the job, some other oven cleaner would eat your pot. depends what they put into it
>>
>>20438852
>the fuck is black chocolate
It's a super-dutch processed type of chocolate that's jet black in color, it's famously used in making Oreos
>>
>>20437239
Maybe you're just a bitter person
>>
>>20440270
>its trivial to google the ingredients of a cleaning product and its material compatibility with what you want to clean
It is but as we've established, the internet just makes shit up. At least 4chan has taught me how to make cool crystals.
>>
>>20438852
mug is from micasa
black chocolate is not ruby, white or milk chocolate and has between 43 % and 99 % cocoa
>>
For me, it's the Amarena Fabbri pitted Amarena wild cherries in syrup, the best sweetener, and only $20/lb
>>
>>20440100
ive not found any specialty roasters in the states with prices comparable to S&W, presumably due to the nature of their business model compared to larger roasters that are more concerned with profit margins
>>20440050
in my experience even third wave roasters and cafes often serve somewhat boring, probably washed coffee that doesnt have drastically defining characteristics unless you ask them to serve you something funky
>>20440360
so, dark chocolate
>>
>>20440966
lunchtime rowdies chocolate
>>
>>20438191
I mean shit like exercise and diet. No point worrying about the harmful effects of microplastics if you're eating junk food every day.
>>
What's the best way to make iced coffee? Variables being how easy it is to make and taste.

I think it's french press because of how dead simple it is to make a big batch and stick it in your fridge overnight and I can't tell a difference between iced pourover and iced french press
>>
>>20441005
Micro plastics lining your gi tract fucks with nutrient uptake.
>>
>>20441014
>I can't tell a difference between iced pourover and iced french press
taste harder
>>
>>20440977
Scholarship recipients chocolate
>>
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>>20438852
For me its the mischief.
>>
satan makes my coffee. its true too, thats pretty funny. sometimes he fucks up, but he always puts 444 in the order number to warn me. he never lets me have 666 in the order number, i'm not sure why. but hes done 888 a few times and whoah, let me tell you. that was fire AF.
>>
>>20441740
lol i did see some guy ahead in line who had 4444 in his order code. i was so fucking scared buddy, i wanted to warn him. but, if you tell people that, i'm pretty sure they would commit you lol.
>>
I have this crazy scheme to open a gym but have a full service coffee shop in the front to monetize the space during off hours
and I'll lean all the techniques before hand, but what do I /need/ at a minimum to be a legitimate local cafe contender?
>>
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aeropress bros!
sw's brazil daterra summer solstice
24g/120ml @ 84c pressed into 100g of ice. purdy gud. the lemon note changed to berries.
>>
>>20441739
As a Frugalist, this machine makes me butthurt
>>
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>>20436878
is filter coffee based?
>>
>>20442730
based on what?
(the answer is yes)
>>
Really like my zp6. What's the next step?
>>
>>20443000
>What's the next step?
brew coffee
>>
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>>20440966
See >>20440275
Black cocoa looks like this
it's not just "dark"
>>
>>20443205
except that's not what the anon who originally used the term "black chocolate" described. he said "black chocolate is not ruby, white or milk chocolate and has between 43 % and 99 % cocoa"
so he probably just meant dark chocolate. if i had to guess it's an esl thing, dark chocolate is "black chocolate" in my language too
>>
>>20443210
honey cool it with the racist remarks. it's called gifted athletes chocolate.
>>
>>20443215
and these are called niglets in my language
>>
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>>20443221
>Negırçe
>not using perfectly acceptable 'juveniles' term
racist much? you want to go to prison?
>>
>>20443230
how did you come up with that spelling? that's the way to write it phonetically in turkish but only a bulgarian turk would know that and what are the odds i'm speaking to a bulgarian turk right now
>>
>>20443210
The color's not from cocoa content, it's from the double Dutch process that raises the ph of the chocolate
Ruby chocolate is the opposite of this and utilizes and acid-wash process to achieve its color
>>
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>>20443244
>what are the odds i'm speaking to a bulgarian turk right now
none
>>
>>20443271
take a look at this image, tell me what you think
>>20443273
wow you get better google image search results than me and i'm in this fucking country
>>
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>>20443277
>you get better google image search results than me
are you logged in your account? it also autocompleted with 'bulgaristan kekleri' keywords, just searching the pic with google lens gives garbage results
>>
>>20443277
>Black cocoa powder is simply a cocoa powder that has been heavily dutched or alkalised.
But I guess this is something only communists know about, huh, Langley boy?
>>
>>20443000
"better" dripper/filters, "better" coffee, water chemistry. Sky is the limit.
https://proudmarycoffee.com/collections/deluxe
https://roguewavecoffee.ca/collections/limited-roast/limited-roast
https://hydrangea.coffee/
>>
>>20443361
Shill me better dripper, I've only ever used v60 one
>>
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>>20443382
Different flow makes different coffee. Simple as. Stuff like the v60 and kalita wave are classic cone/flat brewers but we've got access to different shit now. I like my origami. If I was in the market for a new dripper I'd be looking at the sworks, kurasu flo, orea, timemore b75, or april on the flat side. Probably something like a taster's coffee CT62, loveramics, hakka life, or even one of the limited sandstone v60s for cones.
https://sworksdesign.com/Bottomless-Dripper-p605203046
https://www.variabrewing.com/collections/flo/products/flo-varia-x-kurasu
https://coffeeronin.ca/collections/brewers
>>
>>20443414
Orea looks interesting, might buy one. Or some april brewer
>>
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>>20443434
Orea v4 is cool. Comes in two different tapers and with swappable bottoms like the varia flo. You can use it with flat or cone papers like the origami , but they want you to buy a tool for shaping filters on top. The open bottom porcelain looks interesting too. Tiny thermal mass so it'll brew hot. Lets the center of the paper sag a bit like using flats in an origami. I've been using april papers with mine to do that.
https://usa-shop.orea.uk/products/orea-brewer-porcelain-pre-order-ships-within-april-24?variant=48037550915861
>>
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What is the drink I am making called?
I make espresso and then just add milk. The milk is just from the fridge so the whole drink is cold, which is how I have come to like it; but I don't know what you call this. It is not a latte because if I order a latte I do not get this drink, it is not a flat white because flat whites do not taste the same. Is this cafe au lait? I don't live in France, so I wouldn't know. I just want to know what the fuck you call this drink so I can tell the Starbucks woman and get a drink I actually want.
>>
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Consider this.
>>
>>20443000
Taste test different waters.
I suggest you do it BEFORE you drink coffee.
>>
>>20443414
what are the taste differences between conical and flat bottom drippers?
>>
>>20443540
I'm actually pretty happy with volvic. It's pretty cheap here in france too
>>
>>20436878
What if i put fruit juice in my coffee?
>>
>>20443611
Its hard to put into words. I've only gone through like 30-40 april filters and a shitload of cafecs/harios/konos. In my limited experience it seems like flats are easier to get a great cup out of, but the flavor is a little more rounded and samey? Not exactly muted, it just seems like cones "add" more, different flavor with the varied side flow and deeper bed depth. But its harder to dial in for that difference in flavor if that makes sense. Most of the time I use a lilydrip which kind of splits the difference. Makes a cone act a little more like a flat with the shallower bed.
>>
>>20443679
i suspect yoour coffee willl taste fruity
>>20443504
consider it considered
>>20443496
just ask for a drip coffee with milk
>>
>>20440073
irregardless isnt a word, and if it is its the exact same thing as saying "regardless" which actually is a word
>>
>>20441014
well because my house is like mentally ill and i live with my grandmother and dad, I'm not allowed to use the perfectly good coffee machine we have in storage because itll take up space on the counter. Instead, our barista express is used solely as a coffee grinder (and milk foamer the once every two months i decide to make a latte lol). I want to make a big batch of iced coffee, but the only way thats possible for me is if i use the pourover. I think we have a french press but the grinds are so obnoxious to clean, but maybe once for a big batch might be okay.
>>
>>20436935
not sure if you're joking but damn that do be a sexxo moca pot
>>
>>20437905
lavazza super crema is awesome and not just for espresso. has great chocolatey aroma
>>
>>20437894
the bunny is hollow. bars are solid and therefore more chocolate
>>
>>20437610
theobromine poisining speedrun?
>>
>>20444657
Dogs can't drink coffee so why are you feeding your dog coffee?
>>
>>20444661
it's a free country and he likes it okay
>>
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should i make a cheeky late afternoon goff?
0-4 yes 5-9 no
>>
>>20444960
gofff kingg
>>
>>20444960
Xi Jinping approved
>>
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>>20444960
mmmm goffee (:
>>
>>20444992
Anon never said he was using Yunnan beans
>>
>>20445617
it was a washed ethiopian :3
>>
New to coldbrewing. I have 75g of coffee in 1L of water. Will i need to dilute it?
>>
>>20445639
Probably not. It's all personal preference. Taste it, dilute it if it tastes too strong, leave it be otherwise.
>>
How much ground coffee does it take to make one cup in a french press? I read it takes 3 tablespoons but that sounds like too many.
>>
>>20444555
absolutely serious. the Alessi 9090 designed by Richard Sapper, the designer who gave us thinkpads, is a damn sexxo moca pot as you put it.
for more of his designs checkout
https://richardsapperdesign.com/richards-products/
>>
>>20444425
>i suspect yoour coffee willl taste fruity
Yes but what are the implications?
>>
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What a none answer. Guess im a pioneer
>>
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Gonna start roasting my own beans soon. Anyone got any tips for roasting dark roast? Once you hear the second pop, how much longer do you roast it? I can't find a very concrete answer online.
>>
>>20444524
irregardless of your wrong opinion, irregardless is a word.
>>
>>20445983
why does it know the slang "based"? Have you trained it with 4chan threads?
>>
>>20446151
oh you sweet innocent child
>>
>>20445893
wow that's awesome, thanks for the link and details. I may have to try to find myself one.
>>
>>
>>20446151
based
>>
Okay, /ctg/, I need your advice. My coffee maker died, so I'm in the market for a new brewing apparatus. What do you recommend as my next purchase: v60, aeropress, french press, or should I just get another drip coffee maker (and if so, which one)?
>>
>>20446194
Alessi 9090 is a no brainer
>>
>>20446205
>Alessi 9090
looks like a meme
>>
>>20438132
It's been a few days now.
6/10
definitely not good enough for espresso but it's fine for making 'good enough' iced coffee
At $15 for 2.5 lbs I don't think I can complain too much, especially because my usual beans are in the $25-50/lb range
>>
>>20446225
It's the number 2 choice for homosexual schizos.
>>20446194
Hario switch will cover everything you listed.
>>
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>>20445887
french press needs kind of a lot of coffee to make a good cup, more than other methods generally
>>20445982
>Yes but what are the implications?
that you are a fruity fruit boy
>>20446019
home roasting can be very trial-and-error, and it can be diifficult to find exact answers to specific questions like that because of how many little factors affect the final roast
but for an example, i did a french roast the other day by letting the roast develop for two minutes and thirty seconds at a pretty high heat after the first crack
what kind of roaster are you looking at?
>>20446194
get a v60 and a moka pot
>>
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>>20446713
>that you are a fruity fruit boy
Yea i love fruit
>>
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New washed ecuadorian beans bros.

>In the heart of the Andean Chocó, one of the planet's 7 biodiversity hotspots, the Las Tolas plantation is the result of a project built on passion and a quest for excellence. Located in the foothills of the Andes at an altitude of 1700m, the plantation has been managed since 2004 by Arnaud Causse. He has planted coffee trees outside the traditional production areas, where the terroir enjoys a unique environment.

>Grown on deep soil whose composition has been enriched by volcanic eruptions, several varieties of coffee trees are present:
>A 6-hectare plot planted with Pacamara and Bourbon.
>A 4-hectare plot planted solely with Bourbon.
>A 12-hectare plot made up of a blend of coffee varieties such as Caturra, Catuai, Galapagos, Kenya and Java.

>Under the shade of aliziers, banana and mango trees, the cherries ripen slowly and in the best possible conditions to bring out their full aromatic potential after roasting. The plantation also provides a habitat for a large number of animals. Every year, at harvest time, the people living near the plantation come to pick the most beautiful cherries with the greatest care.

>The cherries are then placed in water baths to extract the coffee beans. After this first stage, the "parchment" coffees are immersed in water to ensure fermentation. After fermentation, the parchment coffees are dried naturally, i.e. in the sunlight. This stage also preserves the aromatic quality.

Really light roasted for filter, pulled a ristretto because why not, the cuppa has indeed citrus notes like grapefruit i'd say. Not the acidity you get with underextraction. It's not unpleasant, but can't say it's what i look for in a little black cuppa. Will have to brew it as a filter coffee to see if it's more enjoyable to me.
Body is rather thin and aftertaste fades quickly makes for a delicate sensorial adventure.
>>
>>20446492
>>20446713
thanks for the input, anons.
>>
>>20446762
im sure you do
>>20446924
are you into photography as well as coffee? you always take so many pictures
its neat but just seems like a bit of a hassle unless youre into it
>>
>>20436878
>If you're old and confused, make any Irish Palestine support youtubes?
>>20438607
am I having a stroke? do these grammatically mean something or what? send a medic.
>>
>>20438628
>Totally Safe® Tritan
all of them are as long as your coffee water isn't in long term contact with the material.
Tritan's only real failing is when exposed to UV rays.
>>
>>20446974
>seems like a bit of a hassle
The total time is less than 5 minutes between taking pictures, making the montage and writing the text. I know the bar is low these days, but i'm not exactly effortposting, the process is pretty streamlined.
>>
>>20442730
filter is really the only way I can drink coffee. some do better without paper filtration, but it's very rare. those same ones I usually make tea style with a reusable finum basket as well.
>>
>>20447021
i wouldnt even know how to assemble the collage so i suppose it just seems like a lot of effort to me
i do appreciate your posts, though
>>
>>20447043
I use GIMP with G'MIC, it's super easy it does all the work for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM42vx22gwg
>>
>>20446993
The plastic actually repairs itself after every use automagically. I've been using one daily for a decade and its yet to come in long term contact with boiling water and abrasive, acidic coffee grounds.
>>
>>20447072
neat, thanks
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are you all ready for the new hario kinu i mean kino
>>
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SPEAKING OF KINO
ITS UP
https://youtu.be/j-Hu4hF5PTM
>>
>>20447695
any idea how much theyll ask for it?
>>20447709
fat
>>
>>20447738
>any idea how much theyll ask for it?
this site has it for NT4,980 and the googles tells me its $150 freedom dollars
https://www.muzhan-coffee.com/products/2024041901
>>
>>20447759
seems a might steep for hario
>>
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The nbn man will be here soon to put a dish(?) on the roof and ask me questions I can't answer! Time for covfefe! Ask me about my biscuit c:
>>
>>20448063
did you make it yourself
>>
>>20448100
No I bought it from "Iron Pot Bakery". It's gingerbread and it's GOOD
>>
>>20448248
im happy for you, anon
>>
What is the best coffee bean to eat? Like just eating coffee beans and not coffee.
>>
>>20448546
No idea what the beans were but a place I lived in California had a small chain called Human Bean and their chocolate coffee beans were the nicest I'd ever had
>>
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I buy one of these every morning. It keeps me alive. I know nothing about coffee. How difficult is it to replicate/improve on this sort of drink at home, and is it cheaper than buying cans? ty in advance for advice, insults, pagan curses.
>>
>>20446713
I didn't want to go all out as I'm just dipping my toes to start. I bought a basket and have been using my portable burner outside since the flakes go everywhere and the house starts to have that intense popcorn smell.

https://a.co/d/iN7cNXy
>>
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>>20448546
Dark chocolated-coated coffee beans are my fave. Mmmm. The caffiene fix two different ways...
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Goffee time this morning :DDDD
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>>20444657
Worry not anon, that's a hollow milk chocolate biscuit & rice crisp, for exxtra crunch, Easter bunny. It's possible but genuinely difficult for a human to get theobromine poisining.
Theobromine is nothing to be afraid of.
>The theobromine LD50 is about 1 g/kg in humans
t. Fearlessly enjoying a sweet honduran trinitario with some fleur de sel.
>>
>>20448828
Cold brew is extremely easy to make. Just get some coffee and some filtered water and mix in a mason jar and leave for 24 hours. Good ratio is 1:8 coffee to water. If you really want the "mocha latte" flavor go at some milk with an immersion blender, and add some chocolate syrup.
>>
>>20439828
Cortado
>>
>>20449384
It's just starbees at this point...
>>
Is this bad?
>>
>>20446194
French press is easiest/least effort for a daily driver being robust to a wide range of grinder quality, same with aeropress but that's a little more involved (and paper filtered rather than metal).
V60 needs a better grinder than either of these.
Moka pots are fun and cute if you like milk drinks
Croissant and americano for my breakfast today, with a sumo citrus on the side. Feeling good and just took a massive coffee shit.
>>
Opinions on decaf? I quit coffee recently and I feel significantly better, however I do miss the taste and the ritual of it.
>>
>>20449602
most decaf is garbage but good decaf is great.
I wish I could find good decaf...
>>
>>20449467
You're sweet. Though i don't know what starbees means.
>>
>>20449602
Decaf is great but remember it still has some caffeine in it.
>>
>>20449650
You know exactly what it means fudgeguzzler.
>>
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>>20449712
I don't but i searched it on the interwebs.
Google's first answer is reddit posts about Starbucks, so i'll presume that's what you means. It's so nice of you but i'd assume Starbucks' baristas latte art is much more skilled than mine. It's really not a popular coffee choice around here though so can't tell.
Anyway decaf is great for some milk drawings trainings late in the day without impaired sleep hygiene.
Here's another one of my attempts at a heart accompanied by some bittersweet suprême authentic black chocolate.
Have a nice day fudgeguzzler (truth be told, neither do i know what this means, weird vernacular teacher).
>>
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>>20449021
intriguing. please do share your results when you can. looks fun truth be told but id be worried about the chaff (what you called flakes) burning in the closed chamber
>>20449185
what are you enjoying today anon? for me its a dry proccess from Kenya, fucking fantastic
>>20449517
its not good...
>>20449602
did you quit caffeine entirely? SWP decaf is excellent and 99.9% decaf
>>
>>20449786
What's the ratio of coffee to milk and chocolate?
>>
>>20449835
Locally roasted coffee (Philly), a light roast ethiopian, my solid favorite
>>
>>20449069
why is her pinkie toenail yellowgreen
>>
>>20449860
love a good ethiopian
ive got some dry processed ethiopian beans arriving later today, cant wait to get into them (:
>>
>>20449850
That's a 2dl cuppa so 3cl espresso, 1.55dl milk, 1 square chocolate.
>>
>>20450286
I think you just like milk and chocolate. There are simpler ways.
>>
>>20438607
I miss him bros, the worst president of a better time
>>
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>>20450350
The milk drinks are afternoon decafs.
I slacked this year and have just started drinking them since the beggining of the month.
Gotta train those drawing skills amirite?
Here's a pic from this morning's Las Tolas ecuadorian light roast. Pulled it as a café crème (no milk in case you are wondering). It's has more place to express it's flavours, though it seems the coffee zigs when you expect it to zag you know?
Tomorrow morning i'll try it as a coffee filter, either coffee chronicler's supertasters french press, or Kasuya's switch recipe. Maybe you can help, which one would you pick?
>>
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>>20450350
As for milk and chocolate, i've got this amazing grand cru hot chocolate from Philippe Pascoët, 64% cocoa.
It's bussin fr fr as the youngins say. But it's out of scope of this general's, though rest reassured i also drink plenty of hot choccos.
>>
>>20450374
Gritty immersion or a switch recipe from a guy who specializes in jap dark roast. Both great options for a light roast.
>>
>>20450374
just do a high temp, high agitation, high extraction v60 a la brian quan
>>
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>>20450813
>>
>>20450350
Anon should look into Caribbean chocolate tea
It's pure cocoa beans roasted dark at high temps like espresso, spiced with vanilla, cinnamon, nutmeg, and bay leaf
>>
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>>20449835
I've done it before with like medium roast. It comes out fine, I eventually got better as I did more batches and all the beans came out more evenly cooked.
I roasted the beans inside once in my apartment and learned that it needs to be done outside shortly after.
>>
Jarrah is my guilty pleasure
>>
>>20436878
So, question: I usually drink highly three cups a day of brewed coffee (no it isn't decaf). I woke up earlier than usual only to remember I forgot to buy more and realized I was out of my usual coffee and tried my friend's instant Starbucks packet coffee instead. Now, I've never done meth, but I can only imagine this is as close as I can probably get... fast foward 48 hours and I do not feel the need to even close my eyes, let alone lay down. What the fuck is in these packets?
>>
>>20451011
It's what my tamper handle is made out of.
>>
>>20450836
>2013 harvest
Old pic?
>>
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I drink 3-4 milky coffees a day, effectively 1-2 pints of milk. Not lactose intolerant but chugging milk hurts my gut.

Tried oat/coconut/etc. alternatives and they didn't have this issue, but unfortunately proper milk is fucking delicious. What are those Lactofree milks like? Do they just taste like ordinary milk, but with no/less lactose? Don't mind if they're not as sweet.
>>
>>20451653
no clue but have you tried cream?
>>
>>20451658
I have yeah and it's lush obviously. Maybe too heavy.

I make moka pot coffee so the rest of the mug has to contain something. I don't mind black coffee made other ways, but I don't get how people just water it down with hot water. Maybe diluted cream would be good or maybe that's just back at 'might as well have milk'.
>>
>>20436878
i wish i had the spare cash for that fancy ass moka pot in the OP
that thing looks fuckin awesome
>>
>>20451683
you can have my moka for free
>>
>>20449517
You need to spray that fucker with Goo Gone
>>
I'm trying to use the Hoffman method with my Aeropress but the 200g of water completely drips through during the first 15-20 seconds of the bloom phase. I've tried 4 times now. What am I doing wrong?
>>
>>20451842
Show grinding
>>
>>20451842
You pulling back on the piston a little to create a vacuum?
>>
>>20451647
No I pulled it out of the Disney vault.
>>
>>20451674
just make good coffee in your moka pot so you dont need to dilute it with garbage
im drinking a little cup of washed moka from sulawesi right now and its fucking delectable
>>
>>20451674
This is one reason why I got a six cup moka. Brews just under 200g of coffee for me to enjoy in a 200ml cup. The basket fits a maximum of 30g ground coffee, but the taste improves dramatically when it's under-filled. These days I'm using 20g – 25g ground coffee per brew. Not as strong as regular moka, but far superior in taste. This is the only reliable way I've found to avoid that astringent taste that seems to be characteristic of moka coffee.
>>
how much coffee do you guys drink daily?
i brew between 50 and 70 grams on most days but im thinking about cutting back for health reasons
>>
>>20452601
26g
>>
>>20452601
18-30 g
>>
>decide to check out the roasters in the nearest hipster town
>one guy uses an antique wood fired roaster
>takes the opportunity to add a paragraph about how often third wave light roast espresso was acidic garbage in the middle of one of his coffee's descriptions
My beans arrived today, I'll be giving them a look when I'm back home on Friday morning.
>>
>>20452601
16.5g x (up to) 4. I use the same dose for 1cup filter and espresso.
>>
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mmmm starbug bullshit

4oz blonde roast cold brew
4oz whole milk
1 tbsp heavy cream
1 tbsp honey
2 tbsp sugar
1 tbsp cocoa powder
dash of cinnamon
>>
>>20452616
>>20452610
>>20452752
is that all the caffeine you consume in a day?
i also drink a bit of tea in the afternoons but i try to keep it to a minimum, just a cup or two
>>
>>20453150
I mix it up with some nice /tea/s as well. Just got in some f r e s h chinese greens but I usually sip on puer.
>>
>>20453150
I get three cups out of one dose of black tea. The second steep is the best in my opinion.
>>
>>20453075
The no cream and sugar canned ones are good. I don't know how they sell these though.
>>
Steel or aluminium moka bros? What size?!
>>
>>20453259
>stale coffee
:/
>"aged" tea
:O
>>
>>20453478
Relevant K I N O
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3W4JEdUHNU
>>
>>20453463
How much moka coffee would you like to drink in one sitting? Will this be for one person or two?
>>
>>20453478
>He doesn't drink tea pressed into cakes stored in questionable high humidity conditions for long periods of time.
Pleb. The mycotoxins is what allows you to achieve Cha Qi.
>>
>>20453538
Idk. A lot. Like 30g of coffee in one sitting I guess. I am permanently single so I don't care what others need.
Also I need to be able to use filters.
>>
>>20453432
i just use one bag with a larger amount of water in a 20z thermos
>>20453571
the three cup is generally considered big enough for one but that only does 20g, makes like 70-90 mls depending on how you do it
i dont have any experience with ss vs alu but ive heard the ss ones taste funny
either can take an aeropress filter
>>20453478
different things are different, what a shocker
>>
>>20453571
6 cup stainless steel Bialetti Venus. Funnel fits 30g of ground coffee, and 6 cup model fits aeropress filters perfectly so no need to mess around cutting your own filters. I recommend underfilling the basket (20g –28g instead of the full 30g) for better flavour.
>>
>>20453669
>i dont have any experience with ss vs alu but ive heard the ss ones taste funny
No funny taste from my stainless steel moka.
>either can take an aeropress filter
The aeropress filter will cover the gasket in the Bialetti 3 cup models (58mm funnel diameter). This could lead to leaks and coffee wastage. If you want a 3 cup moka with the ability to use aeropress filters go with Giannini 3 cup (63mm funnel diameter) otherwise go with Bialetti 6 cup (65mm funnel diameter).
>>
>>20453686
>The aeropress filter will cover the gasket in the Bialetti 3 cup models (58mm funnel diameter). This could lead to leaks and coffee wastage.
ive never had an issue using filters with mine but thats of course entirely anecdotal
>>
>>20453686
Every gianinni that has been posted here has been defective.
>>
>>20453689
It happened to me. That's why I'm advising you.
>>
>>20453767
i believe you, dont worry
thanks for correcting my ill-informed advice, i dont want to misinform folks
>>
How often do you guys make a frankenbag of beans? Like you save the last 10-20 grams of your bag[s] and add them all to one single bag to a have mix of them all. I do it pretty often and right now the brew is pretty nice. Kind of fruity and buttery for lack of a better term.
>>
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I was very disappointed with yesterday's filtered coffee, which tasted like water flavoured coffee. It again reinforces the idea that filter coffee is not for me.

Today I used the Las Tolas in the Bialetti and frankly it wasn't bad. Admittedly the roast is not my favourite, but the body of the coffee in the mouth was not unpleasant and resembled a coffee.
>>
>>20454168
I mix the last few beans with the new bag so every bag.
>>
>>20454301
Might not be a good photo but your shit looks weak dawg. Looks watery as hell for a moka brew. Should try a finer grind with more beans overall to get a more espresso-like brew. Or better yet should just get an espresso maker, manual or otherwise. Filter and espresso, and others, all offer different tastes/etc and maybe you just only like darker or thicker coffee like espressos.
>>
wtf mokafrà stops drinking goffee and less than two (2) months later this is happening in Milano
goffee must be bad for you?
>>>/wsg/5534529
>>
>>20454434
Tfw someone badmouths your Giannina.
>>
>>20452601
30g max + some tea
>>
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>>20454168
i try to avoid in general because im interested in origin characteristics but sometimes ill mix old and new of the exact same bean if i have it
>>20454434
lol
>>20454301
when you say filter here, are you talking about filtered moka? moka can be finnicky
anyway i decided to measure my own to make sure i wasnt talking out of my ass yesterday and here we have it, more than 90mls
damn tasty cup of natural kenyan, too
>>
>>20454434
He dropped coffee for his true passion. Jamming things up his ass with the Italian proud boys.
>>
>>20454417
>maybe you just only like darker or thicker coffee like espressos.
yeah nobodyi know drinks filter coffee, must have something to do, although the light roast is not bad as espresso or moka, but would not be my first choice.

>>20454434
LOL.

>>20454976
No it was the coffee chronicler's supertaster french press. Fine grind, boiling water, agitate well, wait 1min, agitate to break the crust, wait another minute and plunge with paper filter on plunger.
Tbh i never tried filtered mokapot and also almost never use it. As an espresso it's also not bad, not the taste profile i'm used to though.
>>
>>20436878
is the Alessi 9090 a meme?
>>
>>20455566
It's a moka brewer. They're all memes.
>>
>>20455499
Have you tried low ratio immersion brews, like French press or Hario switch? Try a 1:12 French press brew. Grind a little finer than pour over, stir vigorously after adding the hot water, and let it steep for 15 minutes or longer. If you don't have a French press, you can accomplish the same thing in any heat-safe pot or vessel, all the grinds should settle after 15 minutes.
>>
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>>20455753
>15 minutes or longer
>>
>>20455783
Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot you're such a busy man, what with posting on the food and cooking forum and all. Please accept my most humble apologies for wasting your precious time. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive this egregious error. I will try to advise you more appropriately next time.
>>
>>20455566
no
>>
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>>20455566
i can only assume nobody here owns one or they wouldve posted about it by now
so well never know
>>20455753
>15 mins
sounds like filter kaapi
ive been thinking about trying to make something like that using my cafetiere, with the grounds on top of the filter and the coffee collecting below
>>20455499
if i were you, i wouldnt rule out filter coffee categorically based on one brew using such a, shall we say, creative technique
but thats mostly because filter coffee refers largely to percolation rather than immersion brewing
>>
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Is there a better combo than coffee and muffin
>>
>>20456200
It's gonna spill. Just coffee will do. Don't need any thing else.
>>
>>20455983
>sounds like filter kaapi
Yes, that's the idea. Something similar in taste to filter pourover, but closer in thickness to moka coffee.
>>
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>>20456213
it's a packaged deal?
>>
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>>20455983
I should've specified 'filtered french press' same as moka pot and espresso are both percolation brewing but are not filter coffee.
Anyways i came to the same conclusion when i drank a percolated filter coffee brewed by Emi Fukahori at MAME. And every other time i try it, but that doesn't mean i won't drink it.
I like to change brewing methods from time to time as i enjoy coffee diversity as you get more reference points to compare and enjoy your preferred cupa. Things would get boring otherwise, at least for myself.
For me, it's the expresso. Quick, tiny and delicious.
>>
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>>20457175
i get you
trying new things is one of the greatest joys of coffee [:
for me its pour over, i love the level of control it provides to tweak things once you know what you want
i like to start my day with a moka, though, and thats what im drinking right now, using a french roasted robusta from Guatemala
its my first time trying robusta and im surprised at how much body it has and how intense the umami is, which is kinda weird to say for coffee
the flavor reminds me of black garlic oil, curiously enough
>>20457153
>>20456200
anyone got any good muffin recipes to share?
>>
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I’m curious how a latte would look and taste made with this
>>
>>20457967
Revolting
>>
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>>20457967
You dont want to know how they make this. Pic maybe related, but maybe not.
>>
whats the best single group head home espresso machine I can buy?
>>
>>20459471
Whats your budget? DE1? Sanremo You? Slayer? KvdW Speedster? Manument?
>>
>Light roast (by Japanese standards) Peru
>Hario Mugen
>300/20 ratio
>2 min draw down
>100 degrees water
Best cup I've ever drunk so far. I couldn't get the regular V60 to work with a regular electric kettle.
>>
>>20457967
its literally just vanilla milk so honestly i dont think it will taste that bad.
i tried some of that the other day and its not too bad. not really a big milk drinker though. we only bought it since we were gonna have a may 4th party.
>>
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How to make good coffee

Have finely ground dark roast.

Turkish/Bosnian method - gives slight burnt taste
Heat up brass/coper cezve and separately heat up water to close to boiling
Pour 1 mound tea spoon of coffee into cezve per serving (and sugar if you have to ruin it) and shake it to absorb heat.
If you like oaky burnt taste put it back on stove for a second or two.
Pour hot water into cezve and mix it with tea spoon
Put it back on stove till it rises right to the top
Scoop the cream of the top with spoon and pour it into fildžan.
Pour rest of the coffee into fildžan slowly so that grounds remain in cezve

Rest of balkan method.

Pour water into cezve
Put it on heat to start boiling, remove it.
If cezve is more than half full pour some of the water in separate mug.
Pour 1 mounded tea spoon of coffee into cezve per serving (about 1/2-1dL). Mix it
Put back on heat to rise, remove it before it spills over.
Wait 10-15 seconds and put it back on heat up to 3 times for stronger flavor if you wish
Pour it into cup
>>
>>20460035
milk and literally just vanilla don't just magically turn goyslop blue
>>
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>>20460044
You don't have natural blue milk?
>>
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>>20457769
>muffin recipes
I like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVx0oamyxLQ
>>
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>>20459929
you in Japan fellow pour over chad? they like their shit dark over there, right? how do you like the Mugen?
>>20460043
always wanted to try this stuff, ill have to look for a Turkish restaurant near me next time i want to go out so i can get a taste for it
>>20460179
looks easy and delicious, i will try it
ty anon

im trying out these abaca v60 filters, they are very quick
really brought out the acid in my Kenyan natural [:
>>
ExDos washed ethiopian and a blueberry muffin. Simple as.
>>
>>20460943
>you in Japan fellow pour over chad?
Not anymore, fellow pour over enjoyer. I visiting some coffee shops where they served pour over. Also one where they had french press on the menu.
A lot of small coffee shops are popping up compared to last year that specialize in pour over.
>they like their shit dark over there, right?
I think they just don't like the acidity so most coffee is dark roast or medium roast from South America. Ethiopian or Kenyan coffee is rare and actual light roast coffee simply doesn't exist.
>how do you like the Mugen?
It's perfect if you like single pour recipes. The same recipe on a V60 results in watery coffee because of the spiral ribs.
>>
I regret getting the Profitec GO because no one mentioned the solenoid valve on this machine is shit and your pucks will always be muddy and a nightmare to knock out and clean. My coffee experience always gets ruined by the wet turd that plops out of the portafilter and that I have to clean under the sink because only 60% or something of the puck is knocked out. Everyone with a Profitec GO reports this issue. I hate YouTube reviewers.
I wish I stuck to pour overs.
>>
>>20461357
ok but how does the espresso taste? wired boomer has a video on dosing by volume
>>
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>>20461428
Good espresso doesn't actually taste all that good. it's way to bitter and strong but that's ok since its something like 0,25dl of fluid.

Whole point of espresso is to be made in under 30 seconds and to be just thrown down the throat, It has more caffeine and other chemicals that activate your taste buds than a mug of filter coffee so all you get is an overload.
>>
>>20461428
Tastes alright but I think I just don't like espresso itself too much. Makes amazing milk drinks however. I make a flat white with 160ml milk and it makes me wish I went with a heat exchanger or something instead.
>>
>>20461499
I have to mention that the reason I say I figured out I probably don't like espresso too much is that even the best espressos I've ever tasted, taste 10x better as an Americano or something. A shot of espresso on its own always has a sort of unique bitterness that I guess people just call "a strong taste".
>>
>>20461517
>>20461517
were you not aware of this before buying the 'chine? does it have a good resale value? you live and learn maybe you can find a 'chine that suits you more
>>
>>20461530
I'll tell you what I thought, I thought that the only way to emulate the thick and void-black big cups of coffee I'd get from cafes is with an espresso machine. I'd enjoy my medium and medium-light roast brews on my V60 but I started to get really bored of the tea-like body and acidity with pour overs. Suddenly, I figure out methods (like the center pour method) to use medium-dark roasted beans (on the verge of oiliness) to brew a coffee without any sourness or bitterness and my god, I never knew you can get such an Americano-like taste with actual body and just the right amount oils passing through the filter from a V60.
Basically, I tried too hard to chase that traditional type of a cup of coffee that I went down a rabbit-hole that I regret because I had the equipment all along. Now I realize the best use of an espresso machine in my opinion is to make milk drinks, because that's the unique thing it can offer as no other coffee brewing method gives you a base so concentrated to use with milk. I can already get the mugs of black coffee that I want from pour overs.

Idk how to figure out what resale value it has. I never sold anything like it before lmao. Good time to figure that out I guess.
>>
>>20461484
Just say you don't know what you're talking about and move on.
>>
>>20461570
look on facebook marketplace, your country's ebay or caraigslist. set a price you're willing to "loose" as if you had "rented" the 'chine during the time you used it.
do you make multiple milk drinks in one go?
it all comes down to personal preferences maybe going thru the hassle of reselling is not worth it and you're chasing the dragon and might be happy with the GO down the road.
>>
>>20461571
Actually i never made an espresso. Just drank it so you could say I don't know what I'm talking about. But I sure as hell know how it tastes when it's made properly and I know a bit about it's history.
>>
>>20461606
>when it's made properly
and prepared by wagies with a cheap roasty cafe costcutter blend.
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>>20436878
I don’t actually like the taste of the onyx coffee lab coffee
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>>20461621
Well, whatever makes you feel better. Power of imagination is endless.
>>
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>>20461606
>I know a bit about it's history
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>>20461484
>It has more caffeine (...) than a mug of filter coffee
No.
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>>20461643
I've had Mcdonalds I know how burgers taste when made properly.
>>20461631
Just pulled the first shot of a new batch of natty ethiopian. Oops all berries. I can brighten it up a bit by coarsening up and hitting a bit faster flow, or tweaking my water a bit.
>>
>>20461600
Yeah I’ll use it for a while longer and see. I only make 1-2 milk drinks at a time and it seems perfectly fine for that (aside from the annoying puck problem)
>>
>>20461727
>aside from the annoying puck problem
try what he suggests in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyGJXRlexmc
>>
>>20461793
No.
>>
>>20461793
>explaining solenoids with Rabbi Chuck Schumer
>>
>>20461793
Will do. Thanks.
I know nothing will fully fix the problem but it's worth trying to reduce it.
>>
>>20461139
>I think they just don't like the acidity
i wonder if thats partially because of the negative connotations associated with acidity, the same way some people take great pains to avoid bitterness when both are to a degree an unavoidable aspect of the flavor of coffee
>It's perfect if you like single pour recipes
thats practically all i do, maybe ill get one someday
what kinda papes do you use with it?
>>
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>>20436878
I'm trying to buy a French Press for a good friend, but not sure what to look for. Any suggestions?
>>
>>20462098
Bodum
>>
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>>20462099
I will take a look! Have a Pepe for your help!
>>
>>20462098
French Presses are very easy to make and cheap, it's what makes them a common suggestion for newcomers looking to get more into coffee.

Only recommendation beyond brands I can make is, if you get a glass one look for double-walled construction for thermal retention and durability.
>>
thoughts on maracaturra ?
>>
>>20462330
Its no maragogipe.
>>
>>20461870
>i wonder if thats partially because of the negative connotations associated with acidity, the same way some people take great pains to avoid bitterness when both are to a degree an unavoidable aspect of the flavor of coffee
I think back in the day only boomers visited coffee shops as a means of socializing. Since they didn't like anything remotely acidic, shops stocked only dark roast coffee. Now that more coffee shops are opening and catering to a wider audience, I expect more interesting coffee to come from Japan.
Or Asians just have a different taste palette.
>what kinda papes do you use with it?
I've only tried the white Hario ones. They're cheap, available and just work.
>>
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>>20457769
>trying new things is one of the greatest joys of coffee [:
Exactly so much variety out there it's wild.
>how much body it has
I tried robusta as espresso and ristretto only but never had a coffee with so much body. The spoon would hold on top of the coffee
>>
>>20437061
Café
Clope
Caca
>>
>>20463763
>Croissant
Ladies don't caca
>>
>>20463177
Does it honestly taste good? I swear I feel like people kid themselves when they say an espresso shot is "tasty", let alone one made with ROBUSTA beans... Espresso is enjoyable but not because of its taste in my opinion.
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>>20463934
>I swear I feel like people kid themselves when they say an espresso shot is "tasty"
Why?
>>
>>20462330
>maracaturra
Big Bean for Big Boys
>>
>>20464237
projection. inability to grasp people experience the world differently than they do.
>>
NEW
>>20464291
>>20464291
>>20464291
>>
>>20464290
I’ve tasted espresso from like a hundred different cafes now and even the best one wasn’t nearly as good as a good V60 brew. It just seems like filter coffee is the superior way of getting flavor out of your coffee while espresso is just for body, using interesting tiny cups, and a quick caffeine shot.

>>20464290
>talks about projection while demonstrating retardedly major projection
Ironic. Did you even think about what you wrote before posting it?
>>
>>20464306
>from like a hundred different cafes
Citation needed.
>>
>>20464306
>I’ve tasted espresso from like a hundred different cafes now and even the best one wasn’t nearly as good as a good V60 brew.
>inability to grasp people experience the world differently than they do.
>zoomer's reading comprehension is fucked
pottery
>>
>>20464380
>>20464380
>"you have le inability to grasp how people experience the world differently than you do!!"
>cannot for the life of him grasp why some people don't find espresso tasty
>>
>>20464405
If I had 100 shitty steaks and one decent hamberder, I'd probably say steaks suck too.



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