People say that Robb was a warg, but I don't remember any scenes that imply or show that he was one.

>>23316022
He literally had a depression post 4 days before that one about how some singer died.

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How is George going to fit all these POVs into one book? The far right column is what it is going to take, and I am just not convinced that George can do the the story he needs to do in that many chapters.

>>23318368

>Tyrion winds up as Daenerys Hand once she claims the Iron Throne he does a good job but people despise him because of his appearance essentially mirroring Bloodraven a little along with him being a Lannister after the whole stuff with Cersei and Tommen
>At some point Tyrion has his tongue cut out because he pissed off the wrong person or maybe Cersei does it before she dies as a big fuck you middle finger moment for causing her downfall
>Tyrion is the only one to bear witness to Daenerys finally snapping and having a BURN THEM ALL Mad King Aerys moment
>suddenly has an epiphany which is essentially an did I fuck up things even worse? type of moment in trying to restore the Targaryen dynasty because it would just be repeating stuff over and over again without no end and decides to strangle her to death which results in him having his hands injured by being pierced onto the swords of the Iron Thron
>Tyrion is sent to the wall where his last chapter is taking a piss reflecting on what happened before going off to do duties for the new Lord Commander Jorah Mormont

Thoughts? I think this is how Tyrion's legacy will end

>>23317953
I can and I will judge fem-coomers for shipping Sansa and the Hound. Shit is gross.

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I've recently finished the series and I have to say I enjoyed the chapters in and around Meereen for the most part

>>23318440
There's no really direct evidence for it, but the main one people talk about is Grey Wind discovering the goat track that Robb uses to circumvent the Golden Tooth so he can sneak up on Stafford Lannister at Oxcross.
Also, Jeyne says something to Catelyn about how Robb would stare silently at his maps as if in a trance and not even answer her when she spoke to him. That probably just means he was deep in thought, but it could be that he was warging.
Also I think GRRM said all the Stark children were wargs in an interview, but I don't know where he said that.

>>23318769
>There's no really direct evidence for it,
His last words were "Grey Wind." Jon's last word was "Ghost."

fat pink masts jutting into myrish swamps until her cunt became the world and under the table a bitch-hound thumped her tail as pups suckled on her bulging dugs while nuncle broke his fast on black bread, bacon burned black, and mulled wine while around him the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit and in the privy the princess cursed as she shat but the more arbor gold she guzzled the more she shat until she was shitting brown water while she dreamed of riding her silver and nuncle smirked and bit into a lemoncake while capon-grease dripped down his chin onto the nipples of his breastplate and the boiled leather of his jerkin for did the princess not know words are wind and winter is coming and a lannister always pays her debts and you know nothing jon snow and dark wings bring dark tidings and oh my sweet summer child this is nothing but a mummers farce and she could be fucking lancel and asha and moonboy for all nuncle knows before sticking them with the pointy end but where do whores go and the night is dark and full of terrors but nuncle is the blood of the dragon while the princess is merely a girl of five and ten who knows little of the ways of manhoods and the north remembers and if they look back they are lost and what is dead may never die and fear cuts deeper than swords. Har! Heh. HODOR

>>23318848
That's circumstantial evidence

>>23318862
Yeah sometimes writers just accidentally put words into their books

How come two years pass between book 1 and book 2 but then time barely passes between book 2 and 5? Pretty sure Jon is still canonically 16.

>>23318937
>How come two years pass between book 1 and book 2
two years don't pass

>>23318937
the entirety of the books span about 3 years

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>>23318481
You have no sense of romance.

>>23319645
this shit is retarded bro

It's funny how so much of the ASOIAF art has le epic dark souls knights, when when half of all the knights in the series are described of having gaudily painted armour in bright colours like a Hot Wheels car.

>>23318464
He’s not. He needs four more books, or at least four books’ worth of content. One to wrap up all the shit started in Feast and Dance (and therefore wrapping up the second act) - and THEN a Game-Clash-Storm amount of pages for Act 3 (which starts with Dany reaching Westeros). Winds and Dream alone will have to each be twice the length of any of the previous novels, and will in effect have to be four books.

He knows this, which is why he lost motivation and stopped writing.

>>23318440
Is there any point in discussing this? Even without warging their control over the wolves was supernatural, so the potential for Sansa and Robb to warg was always there.
>>23318473
People didn't despise Bloodraven because of his looks retard;
GRRM would never deprive us (and himself) of Tyrion's dialogue, the imp loses his head before he loses his tongue;
The Targaryen are born crazy, they don't become crazy;
Tyrion kills Dany in the throne room and doesn't get his head off?
>>23318481
Its a good ship tho, seeing the hound mellow out would've been funny

>>23317953 <-- pedophile
>>23319645 <-- pedophile
>>23320260 <-- pedophile

>>23320260
we could still have Tyrion's quips in the form of him thinking about them while someone talks to him

>>23318481
I wonder how many shipfags forget Sandor holding a sword and dagger to Sansa's throat multiple times when he visited her in her room at King's Landing?

Has anybody else here ever met Martin? I met him briefly at a book signing in the 00s before the HBO show made him a household name. He was about 5'6 and 300lbs so looked like a ball of fat. He was friendly and likable but I definitely got a creeper from him. Has he ever been accused of anything?

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While reading AFFC, I kept getting whiplash regarding Cersei's true feelings towards Jaime. In her POV chapters, she seems to flip-flop between loving him above all else, and disliking him and manipulating him for her own aims. Am I stupid, or is Cersei stupid?

>>23321825
She's conflicted because Jaime is different after going off to war

>>23321825
>is Cersei stupid?
very.

but her main issue is she kind of uses him like he's just an external part of her to get what she wants, which is something she's been accustomed to doing due to how close the two of them were growing up and how emotionally in tune with each other they are. manipulating him is like second nature to her, and jaime was always aware of this but it's never really been something that he minded because he's always been so in love with her. but like other anon said, after jaime gets back from all the shit he's gone through she doesn't really recognize him as the same person but still falls back into old habits on top of wanting the old him back, likely out of genuine love and familiarity. but jaime is finally questioning his attachment to her, so it's the first time their goals and desires aren't fully aligned, so her manipulations aren't as effective as they used to be and jaime is no longer blinded by his emotional attachment to her, and the two of them are experiencing the frustrations caused by that disconnect.

i think she does genuinely love him, but him not falling prey to her manipulations like he used to gets interpreted in her schizo mind as him not loving her, and so she gets pissed at him because if he did love her she thinks he should just do what she says.

So Jaime is currently at the Twins, having just burned Cersei's letter. What's his next move?

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>>23320962
Forget? Have you ever met a woman before? They love that shit.

>>23322553
Having an audience with Lady Stoneheart
Do they make it out alive? I think he and Podrick do, Brienne however...

>>23322099
This one hurts. It still blows my mind how George went from "just a little bit more and it can come out this year :)" in 2016 and here we are 8 years later...

>>23322152
Jaime throwing Cersei's letter into the fireplace was one of the most satisfying moments for me in the series

>>23322585
Kek Georgie getting redpilled in real time.

>>23318464
No Jon chapters. Jon gets resurrected in the middle of the book and Melisandre is the wall PoV, or maybe Jon gets resurrected in the epilogue and is the PoV for that.

There's so many PoV's in Meereen they'll probably all blend together for a single story with Tyrion making the bulk of it.

not so sure about the rest but I think some PoVs will have to die from the 4 major battles we're about to see.

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were there more pics like these for the other povs?

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>>23318440
>People say
George said it.
>>23318937
>Jon is still canonically 16.
It's pretty wild that he's still only the fifth youngest LC ever.

>>23322860
Imagine a threesome with Arianne and Melisandre. One with your whole nuts in her mouth and the other with your cock deep down her throat

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>>23322860
yeah there are a shit ton of asoiaf wojacks they mostly originate and get posted to reddit on r/darkwingsdankmemes

>>23318440
All the Starks are wargs, they just need help opening their third eye. Bloodraven opens Bran's and the darkness of Winterfell's crypts opens it fully. Arya begins seeing through cats when she's blinded so the Starks probably need to lose their sight to begin conscious warging.

>>23318464
If Jon gets any chapters it'd be the last. Any perspective involving him would be enhanced for not understanding what his deal is post revive.

>>23323700
Imagine thinking Criston did anything wrong

>>23320962
>He's a monster but he's MY monster
That's the entire appeal of the Hound. He's the beauty and the beast trope.

>>23321825
Cersei loves Jaime but is disgusted when he doesn't go along with her bullshit. It's a very unhealthy relationship.

>>23323775
I fucking love Victarion. He's so fun to read

>>23324060
One of the only good POVs introduced in Feast/Dance

>>23324060
>I have no luck with wives

>>23322685
same. absolutely love that moment. maybe it's weird to say you're proud of a fictional character, but i honestly felt that for jaime when he did that.

>>23321825
Cersei is a BPD whore, unironically the perfect perspective on most modern women. Ruining her own life but pretending she's hard done by.

>>23322837
>No Jon chapters
I could definitely see that. It would change a lot, but it would 100% make sense and I hope George does it.
>There's so many PoV's in Meereen they'll probably all blend together for a single story with Tyrion making the bulk of it.
We already have 2 chapters of Tyrion doing nothing, its not looking good so far in Meereen.

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Another extremely interesting blog post from George...

>>23318368
It's impossible for me to read his name as anything other than George Rartin Rartin Martin

>>23318852
Sunset
>>23322099
we're getting the book soon, no later than 2026

>>23323556
based. I'd have it with Melisandre on my balls and Arianne with the dick

>>23325064
We're never gonna get Winds, are we anons?

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>>23318368
this picture of an other
cause it's just a human with blue eyes kek

>>23325561
It's coming out in December

>>23324890
She unironically has multiple symptoms of BPD.

>>23325650
Two more weeks

>>23318464
>How is George going to fit all these POVs into one book?
By not writing the book.

>>23320962
>I wonder how many shipfags forget Sandor holding a sword and dagger to Sansa's throat
Silly boy, that makes it even hotter.

>>23320962
I'm sure they think it's hot. Same way the Hound and 3953984 other men want to fuck 12-year old Sansa. Seriously what is up with that? If you're going to claim she looks older, might as well make her older.

>>23326249
>Same way the Hound and 3953984 other men want to fuck 12-year old Sansa.
Been a fan for over a decade now and have never seen or heard any of the male fans talk about wanting to fuck any of the underage characters. Not even Dany, who has been sexually active in the books since age 13. Also George has said it was a mistake to make the characters so young. He had initially planned the story out differently to include a time skip but plans fell through.

>>23325561
>>23325650
>>23325714
any update on TWOW since January? I've abandoned myself from any social media or rarely visit /lit/ this year.

>>23326376
It's okay, Preston is writing it for us

>>23326383
>Preston
literally who?

Is George's legacy cooked if this shit remains unfinished? Or can this series stand on its own as is?

>>23326979
Said it before but I strongly believe this is the best fantasy series ever written even in its unfinished state. Nothing old or new compares and I think it will be a very long time before something else comes along that's as good or better.

I don't care if it gets finished, but unless George dies in some horrific car or plane accident then I don't see it not being finished. People can make all the jokes they want but it's clear he is working on Winds and he's got another 10-15 years before he's probably too old to work on Spring.

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>>23326975
>Still, though a name can change, blood can't. And The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring were A Dance With Dragon's only trueborn successors. Until they weren't. On his deathbed, George the Unfinished forever earnt his epithet by canonizing all fanfiction, from the lowly erotic AO3 slop to the great schizo theorycrafts of noble YouTubers, including Preston Jacobs and David Lightbringer. Fittingly, George's last act was to thrust himself into the fandom and feed and seed chaos.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCsx_OFEYH6sosqM6P4zrwHbScfFGlR0M

>>23327024
And The Winds of Winter is probably the most complicated of all the books. He needs to get everyone in one place, once that's done A Dream of Spring is just closing it all out and will probably be easy and cathartic for him to write, and will come much faster than Winds.

>>23326374
Men in the books, anon. And whatever plans GRRM originally had do not matter and neither do his regrets. He wrote what he wrote knowing fully well what he was doing.

>>23326979
Legacytards are just Tolkienfags getting uppity because HotD is getting more acclaim than Rings of Power and people are a lot more excited about it than new Tolkien adaptations.
Berserk already had a legacy before Miura died and GoT alone has had a massive influence on "mediaval fantasy" as it is depicted in popular American culture and got people who didn't like fantasy to tune in. Even putting aside GoT, which is almost impossible since that show defined television in the 2010's, shit like Elden Ring is a pretty good example of how GRRM's writing and influence is farther than his critics like to admit.
Dude isn't the second coming of chrsit but when people talk about "legacy" 9 times out of 10 they're talking out of their ass and don't bring it up to actually talk about how he's going to or had influenced the depiction of fantasy, they're just doing it to rag on him for not finishing the books and to try and boost Tolkien up.

>>23327137
>people care more about HotD than Rings of Power

That’s because George is involved with HotD and apart from the nigger Velayrons it’s still faithful to the material.

Rings of power is a complete bastardization of Tolkien made by corpo kikes.

Also HotD will never be on the same cultural level as GoT was back in its day and not finishing the books will undoubtedly hurt his legacy especially since the show ended in shit.

>>23326376
No. We got literally no updates.

>>23327095
>>23327024
It kinda shocked me to find out that he wrote the entirety of A Storm of Swords in 9 months. 90's gurm was built different

>>23327120
You morality fags are so annoying. It's not real, it's a story. If it was up to you all art would look like episodes of My Little Pony. Every time I see someone accusing a writer of being, racist, sexist, homophobic, pedophilic, with zero evidence, I think the person pointing the finger is actually guilty of what they're accusing others of.

>>23327319
The point isn't that they're unjustified in being pissed at Rings of Power, its that they're projecting that onto ASOIAF.
His legacy might be hurt but its undoubtedly still going to stand on its own. The only people that say his legacy would be ruined are the people that either haven't read the books at all or have spent more time seething about WoW than they have reading.

>>23327120
Sansa's character is defined by her status as a "great beauty" of Westeros. If GRRM wanted to hammer this point home, he really had two options. He could describe Sansa's developing body at-length and in detail. Or he could have all of the men in her life lust after her. It makes sense that George chose the latter, since he already was having to dodge the pedo accusation. Even then, AFFC mentions that Sansa's boobs are growing and no longer fit her clothes.

>>23327050
i tried giving his fanfic a go some time ago, put on the playlist and laid down in bed with eyes closed
listen to amazing fucking chapter, can't wait ti hear the next and next lines. okay next one. meh kinda boring... damn... really boring..... this part doesn't even make sense... what is this?
I check, the boring one was one of his, the amazing one was a sample chapter. shucks but the quality drop is too apparent for me

>>23327024
i agree with this wholeheartedly, thanks for putting my thoughts to words anon

>>23327847
I personally really enjoyed a lot of his fanfic chapters, but of course they're never going to be on par with GRRMs writing

Canonically, which ASOIAF character has the biggest cock? Hardmode: No Cleganes, Hodor, or Duncan the Tall.

>>23328220
There is someone literally called the longinch.

>>23328220
Nimble Dick

>>23328220
Podrick Payne

>>23328220
Canonically? Mushroom

>>23328220
Wun Wun

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>>23329027
or so he says

>>23326376
Nope. Still believe that the only way we get TWOW is after GRRM's death.

>>23327024
>People can make all the jokes they want but it's clear he is working on Winds and he's got another 10-15 years before he's probably too old to work on Spring.
Lol cope

some of you have deluded yourselves into forgetting that dying in your 70s is like the most normal thing ever

>>23330120
Especially when fat. Have you ever met a fat 85 year old?

>>23319899
>He needs four more books
to do what you think he's going to do - but what if he has something else in mind?

>>23320260
>the imp loses his head before he loses his tongue;
Maybe but plenty of hints are dropped. And what if he finds another way of talking?
>writing letters
>telepathy
>speaking thru a dragon he controls wtih his mind

>>23321825
>is Cersei stupid
No. She's intemperate, reckless, selfish, obtuse, etc, etc, but she's not stupid.

>>23325236
now you've done it

>>23330219
She's all of those things and stupid, her chapters are pure comedy, she just makes blunder after blunder, misread after misread. Really shows how society and her father failed her, they did not educate this woman. Tyrion and Jamie got educated because they were to inherit their family seat, Cersei was trained to be pretty and bear children, and she knows it, but still tries to make plays and they repeatedly blow up in her face.

>>23330241
Speaking of pure comedy; here's a friendly reminder that Cersei wore a Rhaegar cosplay to Robert's funeral.

>>23330261
Rhaegar, the only man Cersei has ever actually liked.

>>23327024
If you actually believe that fat bastard has anything more than 5 years left in him you are delusional.

>>23330241
Filtered. Tyrion makes as many blunders, but Tyrion's blunders are hidden from the reader, while Cersei's blunders are known - and, just in case the reader doesn't clock that, multiple characters assess her as stupid, and, since she's unlikeable, we accept those claims.
But she's no dumber than most of the characters, and in particular, no dumber than Tyrion.

Don't like the Dornish

>>23330261
>“The queen wore a high-collared black silk gown, with a hundred dark red rubies sewn into her bodice, covering her from neck to bosom.They were cut in the shape of teardrops, as if the queen were weeping blood."

what the fuck is wrong with this woman

>>23330532
I like Oberyn and House Dayne history/lore but everyone else is pretty bad.

>>23330532
Always thought it was bullshit how only they successfully resisted Aegon's conquest.

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Human's love a narrative. Love something fake when the truth is staring them in the eye. Take for instance Game of Thrones. More people know about GoT than the War of the Roses. The plot is familiar with them. A real historical event is not. What about the Accursed Kings books? Half 1/3 of you read those? What I'm saying is that the Holocaust never happened.

>>23330706
Did you know that according to Jojen Reed by night all cloaks are black, therefore the Night's Watch will comprise of all of humanity when the long night comes?

>>23330695
If by "resisted" you mean they ran and harassed them until they left, then yes. You have to remember that as rhoynar they did have experience eluding the dragonlords, so bothering the targaryen until they leave tracks.

>>23330532
not racist
just don't like em
simple as

>>23318368
From Fire & blood :
> If the author's tale is true (parts of it strain credulity), during the course of her life she found herself a handmaid to a queen, the paramour of a young knight a camp follower in the Disputed Lands of Essos, a serving wench in Myr, a mummer in Tyrosh, the plaything of a corsair queen in the Basilisk Isles, a slave in Old Volantis (where she was tattooed, pierced and ringed), the handmaid of a Qartheen warlock, and finally the mistress of a pleasure house in Lys
I'll read this fat fuck's books about supposedly being in a medieval Europe inspired somewhat low fantasy world and he'll just hit you with shit like this out of the blue and still expect you to take his stuff seriously
Like all the likeable characters have modern sensibilities hidden under the surface and they're all just deep down crying out for modern liberalism and the honorable/likeable characters are never hit with the cases and questions the unlikeable characters are like with women's issues for example
It's especially jarring in F&B
Is GRRM retarded

>>23331811
What am I supposed to be angry about here?

>>23331822
I meant to post the part about a Kingsguard in Jaeherys' tourney being a woman and a random woman commanding an army in one of the rebellions Maegor had to deal with

>>23331811
You're stupid and your bait weak, the only cause being championed by anyone in all of the books is "slavery bad"

>>23331842
Based speedreader

Hold Riverrun, nothing more

What do we think of Margaery and House Tyrell in general?

>>23332506
>Margaery
just a pawn of her house with no real free will
>House Tyrell
overambitious for their own good, but that's their whole shtick innit

How much most Targaryens are described as being attractive and healthy despite being super inbred? Is it le magic.

>>23332784
How come*

>>23332784
>Is it le magic.
Yes. Valyrians used to mate man with beast. Not too crazy to think they genetically tweaked and engineered themselves to better control dragons. That's why they get so many reptilian featured stillborns.

>>23332880
Not valyrians, just the dragonlords. They were proficient in blood magic and mixed their blood with that of dragons, which is why they pop lizard babies every now and then. And then there is the whole dragon binding thing with the horns that george never explained and i mean the why, since they already control their dragons fairly well without any of that... maybe they used it for wild dragons since those exist too... idk

>>23332506
>House Tyrell
Upstarts
>Margaery
Politically adroit but clearly not making it to the end of the series

>>23331842
you put that in quotes as if you'd like to be a slave

>>23332506
The show made the Tyrells out to be very sexually open and engaged. Reading the books, I did not get that vibe at all. Sure, Loras is gay, but that's about it. All the stuff about Margaery is just fabrications or delusions by Cersei. Is there subtext in the books I'm missing?

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>>23333915

>>23334335
I understand that the show does not matter. I just wonder where D&D got the idea that the Tyrells were more sexual than the other noble houses are.
Also, whether or not Margaery is actually a virgin or not will be a plot point in TWoW.

>>23334548
It's not like that I the books at all. I did not watch the show so I'm guessing they made it like that in the show as an easier way to give Cersei's accusations a bit more meat, and simply because it's HBO and they like their shows to be 20% porn.

>>23334548
I recently rewatched the first 3 seasons (the supposed good ones) and the amount of sex scenes in them is honestly baffling. What's more every single one of them, unnecessary. From the start those guys set out to only use the books as a very vague blueprint, don't let GRRM saying he was "involved" in the show fool you, he likely had little to no saying in it and it shows.

>>23334548
They pulled it out of their asses. As the show goes on it becomes clearer that they didn't want the characters to be too hard to relate to.

>>23335034
>So in the asoiaf universe every single god exists
It's essentially implied but GRRM deliberately leaves a lot of breadcrumbs for you to follow. Every one of those religions could be right and wrong (the many faced god depicts this, where one god is really every single aspect of magic and the world). I'm also certain that the one religion that is 100% confirmed is the old gods.

I'm not sure whether George ever planned to give a definitive answer to that but I pretty much always assumed the fire god cult was the one closest to the "truth" aside from the old gods of the north, since they consistently make the most miracles happen, consistently can tell the future and Melisandre knows about the threat of the Others.

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>>23334849
>>23334853
>>23335015
What's the deal with Dance implying that Margaery isn't innocent?

>>23335194
Huh. Interesting. I never noticed that. It could just be Mace taking precautions because of the crazy shit that had just gone down on King's Landing, like he's expecting some bullshit to go down

>Aegon III dies at age 30 from pneumonia
Was it the pneumonia that got him or the depression?

>>23335194
I almost forgot Kevan's chapter entirely. I think it's more likely that Mace is preparing to break her out in case the sparrows make the wrong decision.
>>23335411
Both. When you're depressed enough your body slows down. You stop healing as fast and sickness hits you harder. Lack of eating does the rest.

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>>23318368

>>23332506
I want to meet Willas, he seems based af

>>23333915
No. Cersei's chapters are a great example of unreliable narrator. Sure, Margery is a young girl at court who might get enamored with the singers and poets, but there's no evidence of anything. It's not even certain she laid with Renly.

>>23335194
Because she lied about other stuff and the high sparrow could've condemned her for that. Mace, and by Mace i mean Oleanna, knows his daughter is no saint so he stays in king's landing until she's safe.

>>23330300
Did Cersei ever like Robert in the books? I haven't read them in ages (only planning to do reread when fat man announces Winds is complete and ready to be published, so most likely never), but in show she says to Ned she liked Robert at first, but that quickly died out when she found out Robert couldn't get over Lyanna.

>>23336148
I don't fully remember, but I do know that she liked him enough to get pregnant by him initially. If she hated him so even then, she would have used whatever technique she did for her next 3 kids to make Robert unsuspecting of cheating
Their first kid died soon after birth, after that they became more distant I think
The fact that she didn't get rid of the pregnancy to me implies that she gave a chance to Robert before returning to her brother, and had their kid survived perhaps she never would have went back to Jamie

>>23336172
She did get rid of the pregnancy in the books. She gave birth to Robert's child only in show, in books she and Jaime preformed abortion when she found out she was pregnant with Robert's child, this I remember. Getting pregnant to someone, doesn't necessarily mean she likes him. Take Genna Lannister for example. She hates her husband, but gave him four children.

>>23335194
I remember the books making it pretty clear there's nothing going on with Margaery or the Tyrells, at least sex wise . The only things I can recall are vague portions about Loras and Renly, and like one or two of Margaery's handmaids with two of the Kingsguards .

>>23336148
I only remember her saying she liked him during the first day of their marriage. He said something stupid about Lyanna on their wedding night and she hated him ever since. It's also part of the reason she turns on Sansa so quickly. One more pretty stark girl coming to haunt her family.

>>23336263
I 'member

Robbie mumbled the name of the other chick while railing BPDsei on the wedding night. lol lmao What a goof!

>>23332506

>Margaery Tyrell
Thinks she's hot shit and is going to play everyone like a fiddle but will get steamrolled into oblivion because of her over confidence. She's not making it out alive

>House Tyrell in general
They are essentially what the current Lannisters want to be

>>23336148
No. Jaime is closest she ever gets to loving someone. With both Rhaegar and Robert it was the same thing, she merely adored the idea of being queen.

>>23336957
>Thinks she's hot shit and is going to play everyone like a fiddle but will get steamrolled into oblivion because of her over confidence. She's not making it out alive
Cersei get off the computer

>>23336985
Cersei's defining character trait is narcissism. Her relationship with Jaime is probably one of the most toxic in the series. She's essentially in love with the male version of herself. The books emphasize how the twins looked identical as kids, and even as adults, they are both similarly beautiful. When Jaime comes back to King's Landing looking physically different and with a new personality that doesn't match Cersei's, she falls out of love in him.

>>23336957
>Thinks she's hot shit and is going to play everyone like a fiddle
I'm not saying you're wrong, but what moves has she really made? Being nice to Tommen is hardly some grand conspiracy or power play.
Remember that most of our information on Margaery comes from Cersei, who is probably the most biased POV in the series.

You guys think JonxArya is still endgame?

>>23336148
she liked Robert about 1 day, the only night he ever made her wet was their wedding night

books
>legendary warrior, almost inhumanly gigantic
>tortured by becoming a chickenshit bureaucrat after being a titanic demigod

show
>not too short fat man
>tortured by being bored normal guy. fat

>>23337991
>almost inhumanly gigantic
He's just 6'6 lil bro.

>>23328220
The three eyed raven is basically a continent sized gonad.

>>23338392
you mean three eyed crow

>>23338486
Yeah but raven sounds cooler.

>>23337953
Yes but not in the way you would think

>>23322589
Do you guys think Jaime and Brienne will end up married or at least with a baby?

>>23338566
What? Are you implying that Arya uses her faceless-men powers to become a man, and Jon gets resurrected by Melisandre into a woman's body? Which of course would mean that Arya could fuck Jon. Is that what you are implying?

>>23337922
Its not that black and white tho since it wasn't merely in appearance that he changed. Jaime's 360 would've shocked most, specially so those closest to him and Cersei didn't know how to deal with that.

>>23338587
Not a chance. Jaime is Cerseisexual.

>>23338589
Lmao no

>>23338595
No he loves how pure Brienne is and wants to be held in her strong arms and kissed

>>23338601
Oh... So what were you implying?

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>>23338587
>>23338606
The scene in ASoS where Jaime and Brienne were in the bath was pretty relatable. Specifically when Jaime saw Brienne's canonically huge pubic bush, and was disgusted at himself for getting so aroused.

>>23338608
Without elaborating further i'll simply tell you that the Jon/Arya relationship is important for the endgame. I'll let you marinate on that.

>>23338641
Yeah, I am sure you have insider info LMAO.

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>>23337953
Doesn't seem like it.

>>23339006
I never made the Arya/Ygritte connection myself. I believed it was more of an opedipus thing towards Catelyn, the mother he never had. Same with Melisandre. But we can't ignore that George keeps the connection between Arya and Jon alive in the later books. Maybe he'll twist this and go for Sansa at the end like the show was trying to do.

>>23339006
The public outline wouldnt even be an issue if he just released the books. Fuck him for getting pissy.

Are Hightower, Dayne and Stark the three oldest houses?

>>23339676
Why is George keeping Dayne house words hidden? Because they reveal too much plot if told now?

>>23339759
>George provided us house words for the Daynes a few years ago, but he noted at that time that he wasn't particularly happy with it and would likely replace them if he came up with something better. So we haven't published them. Presumably it'll show up in the books at some point. - Elio Garcia

>>23339676
The Dayne are probably the oldest house of unbroken lineage, while city of hightower is the oldest in the country. The Hightower themselves are as old as every other great house in westeros (Stark, Lannister, Arryn, Baratheon, etc). It needs to be noted however, that as direct descendants of Hugor of the Hill in the andalos, the Arryns might be older than the rest.

>>23322837
I agree that Jon won't (shouldn't) have any chapters. I also think Melisandre might have maybe 1 chapter in the whole book and Arya will eventually be the PoV on the Wall (after she hears about "Arya Stark" escaping Winterfell and fleeing to the Wall, the mutiny, etc.)
It'll also just be cooler to hear about what happens at the Wall from third-hand accounts. Sailors or whatever.
>The Night's Watch let a bunch of Wildlings through the Wall and surprise surprise, they slaughtered all of them and have now taken over.
Several chapters later.
>Yeah the Wildlings are led by some God-King called the White Wolf or Azor Ahai or some bullshit.
Several chapters later.
>Turns out this White Wolf is Jon Snow. He defected and betrayed the Night's Watch. Fucking bastards can't be trusted.
And then we just have to piece together what actually happened from that, i.e. that the Wildlings chimped out after Jon's assassination, Melisandre resurrected him and started an Azor Ahai cult worshipping him, and now he's leading the Wildlings.
If/when Arya arrives we actually get the real story, that he was the one betrayed, that he lived as a wolf, and now he's just trying to make the best of the situation by using what men he has to prepare for the Others.
Alternatively it could be sick if we get Jon's resurrection first hand, but there are hints that it isn't really him but a wight controlled by Melisandre. Like if Ghost hates him now, he thinks Jeyne Poole as Arya (because Mel would), etc.
Either way, no Jon chapters makes the most sense.

never read anything by grrm. is it fantasy/genre slop or actually worth reading?

Guys, I miss ASOIAF so fucking much. It's the only fantasy series that I know of that isn't YA slop. Or is there anything else I'm missing?

>>23341215
ASoIaF is one of the very few fantasy series that avoids genre fiction

>>23341215
ASOIAF is easily my favorite and no other author I've read compares to George's style or character work, I don't think calling him the American Tolkien is egregious either. It had a pretty heavy focus on history/historical realism and George enjoys leaving lots of things unsaid or implied which has caused the massive amount of ASOIAF theorizing.

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For me it's Myrmadora Haen.

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Anyone else put off by the mentality that GRRM wanted to kill off Ned because it’d be a twist?

Like I’m fine with Ned dying, I just feel like we were robbed of an interesting character because he wanted to subvert expectations.

>>23341527
It feels like Martin decided Ned would die before writing and it improves other characters. His character wouldn't work outside of the first book either.
>ned lives
>no king in the north
>no joffrey psycho reveal
>internal monologue would eventually spoil mysteries

>>23341527
It’s the major catalyst for nearly all the major plot points, so I don’t think it’s just to subvert our expectations. It makes Robb king in the north, exposes Joffrey’s secret leading to Stannis and Renly’s claim, and the instability/absent northmen makes Balon rebel too

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So what's this about?

>>23341836
No clue, but some people think it was Old Nan, who is secretly Nettles and Leaf leaving Winterfell with her Dragon. George really needs to write those remaining books, these theories are getting ridiculous.

>>23341836
I remember scratching my head when I read that part too. In the end I came to the conclusion that Summer/Bran saw it due to the smoke making their vision clouded. It could have been a vision of the future through the ash, where a dragon will rain fire around Winterfell, perhaps alluding to a battle against the others at the end. And as quickly as it appeared, the snake was gone, which makes me think it really wasn't there in truth.

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Went from thinking Jon is meh to cool to lame (once my friend told me r+l=j) to hating him for being a Cinderella to thinking he is awesome

Is it more appropriate to label the story a low fantasy or a high fantasy genre? There IS a lot of magic even if it’s not as high as in LotR. Is it still low fantasy but a border case?

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>>23341960
I also went through a "Robb is better phase" before I finally accepted I was being contrarian

>>23341963
i really don't like how "low-fantasy" is defined
if you write something that has absolutely no magic, but it's set on a different world than Earth, it's still considered low-fantasy, because the separate world is by its nature fantastical. the only difference is if it features futuristic technology in which case it shifts into being scifi or even sci-fantasy which makes even less sense
if asoiaf had no magic whatsoever, it'd still be "low-fantasy", it's just be in the subgroup of "no-magic low-fantasy"

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>>23341963

>>23341972
robb is also goated with the sauce thoughever
GRRM said he regretted not making him a POV - and i agree

>>23341358
what did he mean by this

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>>23341960
You now remember him beefing with an 8 year old girl on sight for no reason.

>>23341963
It's very subtle sci-fi

>>23341963
Escalating fantasy

>>23337953
if jon fucks a sister it won't be arya

>>23342075
Ironically enough, I think the word insipid is used one other time in the story and it's Cersei referring to Lyanna.

>>23342075
It's pretty easy to see that he's envious and hurt at having to sit out on the festivities, separate from his family, so he's lashing out. If you noticed, he also insults Robb, not just Myrcella.

>>23342119
Jon fucking either Sansa or Arya really depends how much his death and resurrection changes him. Right now, I don't see him doing that even when he finds out about his parentage. While fucking your first cousin is ok and not considered incest in Westeros, Jon might still see them as his sisters and couldn't do it. And even though he is Targaryen and fucking your sister was never a problem for them, he was raised as a Stark.

https://thejonsacompendium.wordpress.com/

Now this is peak autism.

>>23342218
This is a misinterpretation of Jon's character and the reason he became the boring "I dun wantit" dude of the show. Jon is a lot less a slave of honor and tradition than people make him out to be. He's a good person, but he goes against traditional methods to achieve his goals a lot of times. He stays with the Night's Watch not only because it was his duty but because it was the right thing to do.

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>>23342119
>>23342218
>Jon fucking either Sansa or Arya really depends how much his death and resurrection changes him
Prefacing to say I don't support Jon banging any of his sisters, but this is an interesting thought experiment. I think George has done a decent job of potentially setting Sansa and Jon up as a couple. We already know he originally planned or said he had planned for Jon, Arya, and Tyrion to be a thing. Sansa is still married to Tyrion, so if he comes back to Westeros "technically" the original plan of a love triangle is still there if Sansa and Jon become interested in each other. Jon will be missing and still grieving Ygritte, so we know he's got a thing for red heads. Jon will get out of his vows, abandoning his position in the night's watch, possibly returning to Winterfell as Robb's heir. He will have the support of the Northern lords, and most of the Night's Watch ofc, as a former Lord Commander. He will fight in more wars, resurrected Jon will be more aggressive and possibly more somber. Ice cold, with a giant dire wolf, a Valyrian blade (with a wolf's head pommel) to replace the lost Stark one, battled hardened and scarred with long dark hair. he will be a true king of winter. We know Sansa has a type, she like gruff chivalry, matured from her initial fairy tale or song brand of chivalry that she prized as a younger girl. She now knows that all that glitters is not gold, and The Hound has awakened something in her for darker moodier men. She's learning political acumen from Petyr. She is now living life as a bastard (one with dark hair too), something she previously looked down on Jon for. Neither Jon or Sansa were particularly close, so they might not have the strongest feelings of being siblings.
Jon looks like "Ice", a Stark, but is actually "fire", a Targaryen prince. Sansa is "kissed by fire" on account of her red hair, but is actually "Ice", a stark princess due to Robb being crowned as king in the north. Even ghost has ice and fire coloring with his white fur and red eyes. He will be the new symbol of house Star, along with Longclaw, Jon's Sword. Once Sansa makes it back to the north she will wash the dye from her hair. She will meet Jon in the God's Wood (this girl loves to pray), he will be cleaning Longclaw in one of the pools, just like Ned cleaned Ice, he will look like Ned and also talk like Ned. They will speak, they wills scheme (thanks to Petyr's training), Jon will be the muscle, Sansa the brains. Jon being all muscly and mean, but still polite and chivalrous and commanding will make her go sploosh in her small clothes. Jon will be horny for red hair, and desperate for someone to trust. Howland Reed will let the Northern Lords know that Jon is actually a Targaryen and a Stark. They will rally even harder. Bran will somehow approve of the budding romance and do some Old God's magic bullshit to spur them on with divine favor. Boom new Ned and Cat. A song of Ice and Fire.

>>23341836
Just fire and smoke. Summer basically just saw a flame or plume that might have looked a little bit like a dragon for a split-second, his wolf instincts for seeing a threat kicked in, but then it was gone. Sort of like how people see faces in absolutely everything, but through the eyes of an already very on-edge direwolf who doesn't fully comprehend non-natural processes ("man-scales", etc.).
Still a weird choice from GRRM to put that into a book where actual dragons literally exist though, because it leads to people theorising about dragon eggs in the crypts or a dragon that was heating the hot springs or whatever the fuck else schizo shit people have come up with to explain a "dragon" in Winterfell.

>>23342320
OK, now I'm on board.

I wonder how Daenerys will interact with Jon when she knows he's a Targaryan too.

>>23342320 (You)
Had a few additional thoughts. Jon's new personality will come from Ghost obviously since he's warging into Ghost, until he's revived. He will be mostly silent and angry. Ned was "The Quiet Wolf", Jon will just be taking his place. Jon also has the support of the wildings, along with the Northern houses and Night's Watch, emphasizing again that he will be a true King of the North. What does Old God magic bullshit look like? Jon and Sansa will be speaking under a weirwood tree, it's cold so they are standing closer together, they're dancing around their feelings, they are looking for a sign, tree Bran decides to help them out by making leaves fall and blow all around them, he makes the crows caw loudly and angrily whenever they move apart. Blood read leaves and snow are blessing them, the crows finally shut up once they are close enough, they kiss. It's super romantic, George loves it.
>>23342239
There's probably a lot more stuff linked in this blog, anon posted.

>>23342493
I think Daenerys, after her slave freeing escapades in Essos and learning about how to rule there, she will be okay with splitting the Kingdom between North and South. Made easier because Jon is both a Targ and Stark, he may even warg into a dragon to make the whole thing easier. The Riverlands will go to the North, so they will gain a bit of territory and make up for Rickard Stark's "southron ambitions".

"So — A DANCE WITH DRAGONS, then THE WINDS OF WINTER, then A DREAM OF SPRING. Shouldn’t take me long (hah)."
2006

any day now....

Would you rather run into a Mormont or an Umber in the Wolfswood?

>>23342805
women are breaking up with their boyfriends over this question

>>23342805
Mormonts seem more trustworthy

>>23342773
>people born then are legally allowed to post on this site
jesus...

>>23342942
Kek
>>23342805
Mormont, just on the off-chance that it's a muscular tomboy who still looks good in a dress.
I miss Dacey Mormont so much bros. May the Freys burn in all Seven Hells for killing her.

>>23342239
If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a hundred times, Jonsa is a mental illness.

>>23342239
i read through this at the behest of >>23342504 and it actually makes a lot of sense. I suggest people give the observations a chance. Based on what was said on that blog i'd really enjoy jonsa being canon. it'd add a lot to the story for me

>>23343166
>>23343173
the duality of man

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George has good taste.

>>23341215
ASOIAF is inarguably the best non-tolkien fantasy series, take that for what you will. and frankly i think it rivals lord of the rings anyway.

>>23343227
The tension is there in a second read.

>Jon
>Targaryen
How loathsome that i should share a board with such dimwits

>>23343375
R + L = D

>>23341527
Ned dying is frankly on the same level as Mufasa's death in The Lion King or the removal of parents from the pictures in most children's stories.

Ned got his just deserts for killing Gared. No two ways about it.

>>23343375
Cope. D&D had to answer who Jon's mother was to get the show and they made R+L=J show canon, so it's pretty much 100% at this point.
N+A=J is cooler though, agreed.

>>23343439
Dany being at the tower of joy makes sense with Ned being OBSESSED with protecting her while he's Hand. His first move when Robert dies isn't to secure Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. No, it's to call off the assassins sent for Dany. I understand not wanting to kill innocent little girls, but he's going the extra mile here.

Viserys lying to her because a daughter comes before an uncle(or more likely, an older brother always comes before his sister) also makes sense. Unless there was a babyswap for Dany and the likely stillborn that Rhaella gave birth to after fleeing KL.

>>23343727
>outting yourself as a secondary
embarrassing

>>23341527
Ned was always supposed to die. In other stories Ned would've just been a non pov character who's death in the beginning would kick off the story but GRRM decided to give him a full arc before killing him.

>>23342320
Damn... this pretty much sold me on this shit. Not just jumping on the bandwagon but I remember I did feel an odd thing between Jon and Sansa. Particularly with how Sansa remembers Jon in particular after not having thought about him in a long time when she finds out that Jon became Lord Commander. I wouldn't say I felt any "tension" per say but there was something there that I couldn't quite put my finger on, especially on my second read through of ASOIAF. Interesting stuff and would unironically be much better than the Jon + Dany thing.

The only thing that kinda kills my hope for this is that supposedly George gave D&D pretty much the most important story beats and that although D&D fucked up the build and everything around it, they were still staying true to GRRM's bullet points. Very interesting, tho

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>>23318368
>>23338590
>Jaime's 360

This is a fine analysis of Jaime's character arc, and of Martin's considerable, although often underrecognized skill as a writer:

The Redemption of Jaime Lannister
https://atseajournal.com/asoiaf/essays/jaimes_redemption.html

>>23343727
>N+A=J
If only Tyrion had mentioned Lemore's purple eyes, but alas. She is most likely just the mother of one of the sand snakes or something.

>>23344136
Nah, it wouldn't have the same impact if Ashara was alive somehow

R+L=J theorists have never been able to explain why Ashara kills herself.

>>23344198
In love with her brother.

>>23344207
Lol, that's not a bad idea.

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>>23338618
>>23344069
Jaime just wants to kiss Brienne

>>23344198
Its a fun schizo theory. But it only makes sense if you're a secondary who sees Jon as THE main character or if you ignore huge chunks of the books.

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>>23344215

The Stark Barristan was talking about was Brandon.

>>23344198
If I had to guess, because Brandon died and Ned still had to leave her for MUH GLORIOUS SOUTHRON AMBITIONS

>>23344254
How is it schizo? I thought it was accepted now

I don't appreciate the character's making fun of Tommen's weight in the books.

>>23344465
Well, what I don't appreciate Sansa is saying she would rather marry Tyrion (someone she hates and is disgusted by), instead of Robert Arryn.

>>23344267
Brienne is way taller and muscular than Jaime. That's what makes it hot.

>>23342504
>>23342320
>>23342239
Cringe

>>23325652
can confirm. exwife was bpd. show jaime's ending wanted to kill myself.

>>23327137
real Tolkienfags don't want any adaptation for Middle Earth you dimwit

>>23344423
>I thought it was accepted now
Its just a very old theory that gained traction because the show ran with it. But like i've said it disregards too much lore, mainly everything concerned with the Daynes and Eddard. It boils down to "Ned wouldn't have a bastard therefore Jon can only be Rhaegar and Lyanna's" In a more meta sense, i don't think GRRM would make Jon AA and another secret targaryen (bastard or not) and between the two, he 100% is Azor.

>>23344667
I keep hearing about BPD women, and I think I know the basics of bi-polar disorder, but what is so bad about dating/marrying a BPD woman.

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>>23344715
just imagine your wife is cersei in current year.

>complaining about everything
>nothing is ever her fault
>somehow everything always goes bad and it gets worse
>always jealous of other people's lives and success
>repulsively active sex drive

let me add this as well

>cheating whore

>>23344705
Azor Ahoi is Stannis, and Azor Ahoi is the bad guy that causes the others to breach the wall. Imagine thinking George would write a pro-human sacrifice story.

>>23326376
There was a cryptic blog post from GRRM about #dreams and a picture of a blue rose, to which autists quickly took that to mean it's a reference to Dany's dream of a blue rose and that #dreams actually meant A Dream of Spring. Other than that, not even a fart

>>23327024
Nice try, George

>>23344737
Damn, sounds like they are practically succubi. They draw you in with the sex, then they devour you.

>>23342320
What is it with English redheaded actresses hitting the wall at turbo speed? Sophie Turner was so fucking hot. The redhead from the Harry Potter movies also hit the wall pretty hard at like 25. Just an observation

>>23344806
Wrong, Ser Pounce is the one to breach the wall and he then, will have done nothing wrong. Imagine thinking George would write a pro-human story.

>>23344198
>ned begs ashara to tell them where arthur went
>tells them because the war is already over
>gets her brother and his companions killed
>self brans

>>23342320
based
jonsacels run this general

>>23344715
>bi-polar disorder
BPD is not bipolar disorder, bipolar disorder is just strong mood swings. it's not much fun to be around but it's whatever. BPD is officially borderline personality disorder, but really what it actually stands for is bad person disorder. though i don't think cersei has it, she's just a cunt.

>>23344867
Sounds too based for George.

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>"Rhaenys and Visenya were Aegon's wives as well as his sisters. You have no brothers, but you can take husbands. And I tell you truly, Daenerys, there is no man in the world who will ever be half so true to you as me."
Rereading it now, Jorah never stood a chance.

>>23342320
Good post anon! You're also missing the real politic of why cousins married, to keep power in the family and consildate more powers. Littlefinger wants to kill sweetrobin or at least remove him from power and have sansa marry to have her being the wife of the ruler of the vale. Then you kill her husband and shes free to marry again while keeping the Vale. Also being the niece of the last woman ruler makes the vale lords support her as the North and the Vale join forces. Why is this so important? Because the Vale has survived the war so far unscathed. The food and men of the vale will be needed by the Northern alliance (North and riverlands) after the wall comes down (Thanks Euron) as Winter comes. To feed the people since the riverlands farmland has all be raided, burnt and taken and bodies to help fight the Others. Also Westerosi lords will want to align to deal with the sudden Golden Company invasion and the return of a Targ king, and then Dany comes with dragons.

>>23319725
True, however, half of the other half of the knights and soldiers depicted wear armor of sinister designs (Sandor Clegane, Victarion, The Boltons), not to mention the gritty, rusty, mismatched gear worn by the mercenaries and outlaws in the books.

>>23344198
Because she literarily doesn't mean anything. Tower of Joy is several orders of magnitude more important mystery to resolve than why did a random skank killed herself.

>>23345111
>Jorah never stood a chance
On multiple fronts. He tried to have her killed until he got scared/horny for her after seeing the dragons hatch. He's not her type. He had terrible timing with his proposal, she was still grieving Drogo, and she was still young and inexperienced to the queen business. Current Danny that's marrying for political gain (under her own volition and not being forced) but is also keeping paramours (both men and women) would have been more malleable to the idea. Also Jorah is lying to himself, he would have not accepted her taking a second husband, courting and fucking another man right in front of his eye, this man would have been seething, he would have done something stupid. Also it's really presumptuous of him to assume or imply he would be a dragon rider, he would have ended up fried like Quentyn Martell. Even if Barristan had not snitched, once they landed in Westeros Varys or someone on the small council would have told Dany about Jorah's role in her planned assassination. He was always doomed to fail.

>>23345409
Speaking of Jorah does anyone else find it weird that he was selling slavers to a passing Lys slaver ship that was off the coast of mormont island? Literally the other side of the continent from their normal trade routes. Think theres some bullshit about him being caught slaving so he could be turned into a westerosi information agent in Essos

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>>23345111
Jorah the Andal? More like Jorah the Incel, am I right?

>>23345504
>Jorah the Andal
Why he never cared to educate Dothraki about different people and cultures of Westeros and how he is not an Andal but of First Men?

>>23344705
>i don't think GRRM would make Jon AA and another secret targaryen
TPTWP is supposed to be from the line of Aerys and Rhaella and GRRM uses AA and TPTWP interchangeably in interviews so they're most likely the same person.

So, it's obvious Littlefinger and Varys work together, right?

>>23345446
To be fair, he'd need to take slaves throughout Westeros in order to get there, and it'd be less of a risk to try it at home rather than crossing the continent

>>23345546
I mean hes been there for years, he probably tried and then gave up.
>>23345635
Yes but how did they get there to begin with? I suspect his marriage to Lynesse played a part in setting him up as a fall guy

>>23345546
>WE WUZ FIRST MEN
Everyone in westeros is of andal stock

>mfw seeing all the oc × Jaime on ao3
Why do women like the crazy sister fucker so much?

>>23345765
I can fix him

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>>23345741
>andal stock
Eww.

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Hightower my beloved

>>23345896
>margaery's hightower mom has silver hair
>jorah's hightower wife looked like danaerys
>jaehaerys mistook alicent for saera
>daemon's daughter married and had children with a hightower
they're basically pseudo valyrians at this point

>>23345892
Posting the mountain clans should not be allowed, i can scarcely jest with knees so weak after reading this excerpt. But jokes aside, these lords all have keeps, family names and are clad in steel, they all kneel. If you wanna find a "first men" in modern westeros you need to go further north.

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>>23345896

>>23345625
How is it obvious? It looked a lot of the times that they were working at odds with each other, and even more so with Varys's monologue in the ADWD epilogue

>>23345111
Jorah the fucking simp

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Is Fire and Blood worth reading?

>>23347294
Yeah, it's good.

>>23346230
It looks like they're at odds and I don't doubt they sometimes disagree but everything they do works out in the other's favor. It's interesting how Vale started to move just as Aegon's army arrived. But the biggest hint is the conversation Ned and Littlefinger had in his office, of which Varys knew everything about. The simplest explanation is often the right one, so if Ned didn't tell him it stands to reason that Littlefinger did.

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And then Prince Aegon spoke. "Then put your hopes on me," he said. "Daenerys is Prince Rhaegar's sister, but I am Rhaegar's son. I am the only dragon that you need."

Griff put a black-gloved hand upon Prince Aegon's shoulder. "Spoken boldly," he said, "but think what you are saying."

"I have," the lad insisted. "Why should I go running to my aunt as if I were a beggar? My claim is better than her own. Let her come to me … in Westeros."

>>23347566
>I am Rhaegar's son
Press x to doubt

>Conelith Hill states that GRRM confirmed that his book character is ultimately good

Yeah, Aegon is legit.
Blackfyre supporters in shambles.

>>23347628
>be Varys
>be extremely anti-slavery and anti-magic
>be on the Team bankrolled by the biggest slaver in Pentos and dragon enthusiast

Either Varys is fucking retarded, or he is a fucking liar

>>23345765
jamie rocks

>>23347628
>Aegon is legit
...imately a blackfyre, yes. And soon the black dragon will sit the throne.
>>23347702
All of westeros is anti-slavery and he isn't anti-magic. He is merely wary of mages as one should.

If the blackfyres got legitimized, why do they still carry their bastard name(blackfyre)? why don't they also call themselves targaryen as they are legally? it'd give them more legitimacy. seems like a strange decision even if it's just a pride thing

>>23348417
Wasn't his bastard name Daemon Waters? The name Blackfyre is just as legitimate as Baratheon.

>>23318368
Writing is hard.
This was maybe my answer to D&D, whom as much I admired them, I do quibble with.
Game of Thrones had a very Hollywoodian philosophy.
If its showrunner had any talent, the show would prosper, even without source material.
We look at real-life examples and it isn't that simple.
D&D can say Arya was a bad-ass who solved all her issues by murdering them in cold blood.
But D&D doesn't ask questions like was murdering the entire Frey lineage moral? Doesn't glorifying avenging undermine the entire theme of the early seasons?
But the vast majority of Burling Bar cheered for it, so it must have been the right call.

>>23348660
that was his name yes, but then he got legitimized as a targaryen which would make his name daemon targaryen, but instead he took the new name blackfyre as if he was the founder of some bastard-dynasty but he wasn't, he was a legitimate targaryen by that point. this is why i don't understand the decision. distancing himself from the targaryen family by founding his own branch only hurts his legitimacy instead of doubling down on being a targaryen and pushing his claim

>>23318481
Putting myself in their position, I understand why women like the Hound and ship him with Sansa.
>hard exterior
>vulnerable, sensitive core
>only shows it to perspective girls
>still mean to them though
If the Hound was handsome (and some readers will imagine the boys handsome) he'd be the ultimate "I can fix him fantasy"

>>23348858
Half the realm declared for him so it's not like he was hurting for legitimacy. Besides, I don't think any of the Great Bastards changed their name after getting legitimized. Bloodraven and Bittersteel still had the Rivers name and Shiera was still Seastar. Also, his whole campaign was "The King Who Bore The Sword" so the name Blackfyre helped rather than diminished his PR if anything.

>>23348417
Daemon changed his name when he received the sword and he was already known as the black dragon. The rebellion doesn't happen until much later when he sees Daeron had no intention of ever giving their sister to him