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L- LANDA - AIRM - MECHS
Haven't shared this in a while. Instant Action, a pickup play friendly scenario pack, for spicing up your normal games at the FLGS with scenarios that aren't "let's kill each other" but also don't take special setup. Bring a list with BV matched to your opponent, select a scenario, and go.
>>92618911I've got a custom mech I'd envision as a Rasalhague Dominion replacement for the Hatchetman.Note that the XL is a Clan XL.
>>92619857More of a replacement for the Nightsky, isn't it?
>>92619876The design is intended as a direct upgrade over a number of clan-tech modified Hatchetmen which were pressed into service in 3070 and in the 3071 Combine-Dominion war. Increasing it's speed, armor, and firepower. The lack of an ejection system due to issues with the casting of the armored cowl was seen as an acceptable tradeoff by the surviving pilots of the hatchetmen as well as the Ghost Bear Toumen now added to the KungesArme Stars.Similarly, it's targeting systems inability to aim well at long range was seen as an acceptable tradeoff as the medium-range was still double the range of the long-range of the HsLasers added to the Hatchetmen.
>>92619892>>92619876(Forgot to add: It's also intended to be 100% domestically produced, which is why they didn't just modify a Nightsky and purchase the production rights. Also why it's got Non-Standard parts.)
>>92619585It promotes inbreeding, and so must occur.
I've been a big fan of Battletech/Mechwarrior ever since I picked up a copy of Legend of the Jade Phoenix I saw at Barnes & Noble back in the early 2000s, and I've finally decided to get actually get some models and actually play the tabletop after all these years (megamek doesn't really count.)There's a couple of mechs I really like from novels/vidya, and I was wondering which faction would be the best fit for most of them, here's a list:FirestarterJavelinRavenPantherWolverineCicadaTrebuchetKintaroQuickdrawOstrocOstsolThunderboltVictorBattlemasterStalkerHatamoto-Chi
>>92619982That's a pretty broad selection. Most stuff in there is generic, with the Panther, Quickdraw, and Hatamoto-Chi being Kuritan themed.
>>92619765Really love this for pickup games, only scenario I'm wary about is "running retreat" as it seems like the recon player would just try to hide in a corner and then sprint across the map with minimal interaction.
>>92619982Pretty broad. Most stuff there I could see being Kuritan, with the main outlier being the Raven (and maybe the Thud, but thats a bit more generic) suggesting the Cappies. Javelin is also more FedSuns but I imagine that's super common salvage for the Dracs.
Wanted to give a thank you to the mech list anon from a few threads ago. Battletech at game night went well. Two guys particularly liked it, and their getting the AGoAC boxes this weekend. Game night was only two hours, and with me having to explain things we only got three rounds of combat in. Commando lost a side torso, and the Victor started taking internals after getting cross fired by the Zeus and Griffin. The Vindicator took some head bonks and got sand blasted by the Commando, but was able to get up and take of its torso. The Charger charged the Crusader, and they started a brawl with the Wasp joining in. Then we called it quits. Over all, really happy with how it went.
Reposting my Urbies to give the thread some momentum!
>>92620634>>92619994Does Kurita go in for combined arms? I'd like to eventually add tanks/infantry once I have a better grasp on the rules. I really like the idea of field guns and slow long range tanks to supplement my more mobile mechs.
>>92621051Needs a green Annihilator, for reasons.
>>92621199Every faction technically has combined arms, but the amount of attention they give to it varies.Traditionally, the FWL was the big combined arms faction. The Dracs of course use tanks and infantry, but mainly as expendable mooks. It's only after Teddy comes into power that they start to give it more attention.Also with the Dracs it heavily depends on the unit. More "modern" units like the Ryuken are very big on using infantry and tanks and specialize in combined arms. In the other direction, a lot of the most conservative Galedon Regular units used tanks out of tradition. However, many other units just dont see the point if its not mechs.
So I like a lot of Clan Wolf mechs, and want to make a Clan Wolf force as an OpFor.The problem is, I do like having some lore to go on, and Clan Wolf seems to be one of the more boring clans, especially post-Refusal War. Does anyone know any interesting things/units/other stuff I could look into? The one thing that did catch my attention was the Wolf Watch supposedly being one of the best, and I do like sneaky shit. Basically, what makes Clan Wolf more distinct than Jade Falcon post Refusal?
What do you think was going through the creators of Battletech's minds when they thought ''yes, people will be interested to know how much heat their weapons caused, this is peak gameplay."
>>92621500You could look in to Clan Wolf-in-Exile, though having them as an OpFor may not work if you normally roll Lyran.
>>92621565Clan Wolf-in-Exile and worse, Wolf's Dragoons seem just like even more generic "good guy factions", but it's worth a look.Clan Wolf-in-Exile would be more fun if there was more detail on the various sub-states of the Lyran commonwealth. Like, what makes the ARDC special? Are they noticeably more like, Irish?
>>92621544A stroke of genius.
>>92621544heat is just stamina in reverse
>>92619765After having played it at my FLGS the other day, I feel like High Risk Extraction should require the Destroy player to spend their entire movement phase in the agent hex rather than just starting there. Puts some risk to it and doesn't make it as easy to have something like a phoenix hawk just bounce from target hex to target hex unimpeded.
Now I only need Mercenary's Handbook 3055 (and maybe The Falcon and the Wolf).
Is TSM like ferro fiberous in that the extra crits are just there for slot filling. Or if you somehow get crit on all 6 TSM locations do you lose it?
>>92619750I approve this message, thanks for planting the flag and overriding a Capellan thread, anon.Remember Everyone:>AirMech Mode Fixes: +2/+3 modifiers, Turn Mode Optional>ASF Mode Fixes: +2 Safe ThrustEffective starting point for de-janking the rules.
Tell me about dropships on the tabletop.
Anyone seen the new Helios concept art up behind scroggins paywall?
>>92621967Rules are fine. LAMs don't exist for main line combat use. They are scouts extrodanaire and the best coin unit money can buy.
>>92621999il get it for you one moment
>>92622014Nah, They're for scouting AND raiding.AirMech Mode needs a fix to the modifiers or the Turn Mode issue at least. It's overtly restrictive.And ASF Mode is missing the +2 Safe Thrust every ASF gets. THey''ll still be subpart in their individual points compared to their counterparts anyway, so the +2 Safe Thrust does not make it anywhere NEAR comparable still.
>>92621999>>92622053here you go
>>92622068Thanks.I hate it.
>>92622076honestly i went to look at the TR 3060 and wasn't all that impressed with the og either
>>92622068
>>92622102Flying Debris' version looks a lot better
>>92622102>>92622121This one too.I fucking hate the constant fucking with the mech cockpits. Mechs that had separate windows getting just a singular window and mechs that used to have a large bubble getting a ton of tiny windows.Change for the sake of change is no good.
>>92622068i think i like the new one more
>>92622068The helios was always ugly and awkward looking, so this is at worse.... but this is still pretty disappointing.The most glaring part of the Helios was those awkward and stupid arms, but I was hoping some creativity in reworking those, instead of the lowest effort option.And then the parts of the Helios that ARE good, like the cockpit and those "flares" at the bottom of the torso are absolutely ruined.
>>92622158It just doesn't look like the same mech anymore.
>>92622161imo the accordion flares dont look good to me
>>92622169id wait for a render first desu
>>92622068NGL I can't hate anything that has hex arranged SRM launchers. It looks much improved over the TRO: 3060 version.
>>92622068I think i'll just go look for this stl instead
>>92622142bit confused on this one as the og art doesn't have the segmented cockpit either but the FD one does and the iwm one does
>>92622235as long as all 3 models are an option go nuts
>>92622250Are you actually blind? It literally has the segmented cockpit in the picture you posted (and the OG mini, despite how otherwise shitty it looks)
>>92622259Hmm. Now that you mention it, it is a bit strange to be missing the Y truss. It'd be nice if they made the cockpit visor bigger to accommodate that.
>>92622235JuodasVarnas stuff are always topnotch...
>>92622259480p monitor at work so yeah
>>92622068Looks fine, dunno what you nitpicky cunts crying about.
>>92622285everyone has a preference its no biggie
>>92622056>Nah, They're for scouting AND raiding.... and rescuing girls who fall from the sky.
>>92622315her cousin is such a dork
If you had a choice of BT star nations to isekai to, which one would it be? You will HAVE to be a mech pilot at least part-time.
>>92622315This too. I've even got my own lance prepped for such rescue purposes...
>>92622285didn't you get the memo?>OLD GOOD>NEW BAD
>>92622472>You will HAVE to be a mech pilot at least part-time.Well for many that would put me in at least minor social standing. Can I choose the specific part and timeframe?
>>92622472Is that even a question?
>>92622285Shimmy just has a bad art style, that's all.
>>92622472Stupidly rich scion of a minor noble house in the Lyran Commonwealth playing the game of thrones. Obviously as a wealthy heir I have a posting to a prestigious unit as at least a Hauphtman where my leutnants and senior NCOs despair of ever getting me to understand the importance of soldiering. Meanwhile I have yet been able to find a command console so my chauffeur can drive my Zeus during manuevers.
>>92622472Outside of the memes, it sounds like a good place to live.
>>92621963TSM cannot be crit. Re-roll any crits against a TSM slot.
>>92622558The Helios has always looked like crap
>>92622597>TSM cannot be crit. Re-roll any crits against a TSM slot. Listen, and understand! That TSM mech is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until you are dead
>>92622472suicide is badass
>>92622662Only if you take the enemy with you.
>>92622472I guess the trick is being a mech pilot somewhere that it's important, but not so important you're getting yeeted into the worst of the succession wars. so that implies Periphery, but you don't want to go so far Periphery that you're getting rapined by pirates or starving to death.I'd say probably some place like Rim Commonality in FWL? Far away from hostile borders, but enough piracy that they need mech pilots, but still with enough industry and development that you're the one fucking the pirates rather than the other way around. Magistracy of Canopus is another good choice dependent on the era. They do put extra effort into making sure their mechwarriors don't die. And since they're a flipped around feminist society, you would get that delicious victim gravy train, where whenever you do anything wrong you can complain you're being discriminated against for being a man.
>>92622472clan jade falcon i will burn bright or just burn
Thoughts on the Cudgel?
>>92622799Not particularly, no.
What do people think of backporting modern mech designs into dead-end prototypes or one offs? I've played a little with creating a succwars (or even primitive) Uziel for laughs, but I get the feeling that some designs just can't be made acceptably with old tech.If you were to try and make an introtech Uziel, how would you do it?
>>92622924going to take a crack at this
>>92622924I don't know. Either a 6/9/6 warcrimes mobile or a 5/8/5 baby Warhammer. I would give it a go, but I am at work.
>>92622924weapon downgrades, armor decreases, smaller engine, etc.you just take the original mech and cut corners until it fits.
>>92623105I mean it looks like an uziel variant to me. 5/8/4 sucks hard. Didn't feel comfortable shaving a ton of armor?
>>92623004Trying to do an introtech Rakshasa would be such cancer. Go 4/6 to have guns. Go 5/8 and choose garbage guns or garbage ammo.
>>92623004Why is there no shimseen Rakshasa still? Too busy memeing urbanmechs?
>>92622924
>>92622068Looks decent enough that I won't be embarrassed to field one or two in my St. Ives Lancers.
>>92623193Yup. There there's an introtech Uziel. So when do these get retconned in?
>>92622924>If you were to try and make an introtech Uziel, how would you do it?grogtech so it has to suck on purpose: 3 guns (still add an additional 2 MGs for flavor), 4/6 base, no armor, not enough heatsinks for it's "main" armament of 2 peeps and an SRM2 thrown in to "round out it's weapons profile"
>>92623266One-off star league prototype the lyrans found on a trash asteroid and reverse engineered in the 3060's with some modern improvements
I'd like to change my mind, but it seems like 75% of BT fans I meet for gaem both online and IRL don't really understand the universe or lore. I don't mean in a 40k DURR IT WAS SATIRE way, I mean they actually don't grasp what the setting even is. They think it's some far future gundam-like thing. IT isn't that at all. This ain't your youtube recordings of exosquad or the MW tv show. This is way more dramatic and interesting.
>>92623404im the only one at my lgs that knows anything about factions
>>92623404Mechwarrior TV show?
>>92623411Who was the leader of the Federated Suns in 2912? (Do not look this up)
>>92623418He means BattleTech (1994)
>>92623404I mean I started meeting the locals recently and they're pretty variable and strange. One guy was all but bragging about how clever he was for breaking a badly thought out tournament running on tonnage by taking a star of 5 of the same overturned clan mechs and I had to restrain myself from calling him boring to his face.The others seemed more lore knowledgeable, but I'm pretty sure they were both some kind of demo team or former demoteam, with one of them actually talking about his lances and stars in terms of their era and faction and the other knowing his chassis collection pretty well (though he called my Uziel an Owens or something a few times by accident). Nice enough dude though, wanted to offload some of his collection and while I have a feeling he was just handing out ones he didn't like, I still got an Atlas and an Archer out of it, so it'd be rude to complain.
>>92623411oh yeah? then name every nation unique to battletech
>>92623423Hasek Davion? I forget the first name. Haseks kinda fell out of the lore. Not the guy you asked tho
>>92623478Alphabetically? I'll do it right here off my head:Aapdag Association
>>92623478Uhh... Sugma Reaches.
>>92623478There is no one that can and that's a good thing.
>>92623546I will be powerful enoughsome day
>>92623583You don't have enough autism for it. I can sense it.
Anybody ever use the war dog?
>>92619693It has been 13 (thirteen) threads since MadCat Clan Fag has refused to answer my BatChall
>>92623624Yes.
>>92623642You missed too many threads. Your gonna need to explain for the newkids.
>>92623624I really really like this fat spaceman. Can I pilot him?
>>92623666On Solaris you can get a used one cheap.
>>92622753>complain you're being discriminated against for being a man.Except for the part where they go "yeah, so?" and continue to bend you over.
>>92623878All periphery hicks are scum anyways. Of course they buttfuck their cousins.
>>92623657I don't think I missed one, did I?
>>92623920Yeah. It's kewl though, I think clanners have proved their superiority to the dezgra
>>92621997They're an absolute brick of a unit that's nigh-unkillable, but aerospace ranges are wonky as fuck when engaging ground targets (even when the dropship itself is grounded) so you end up with shit like LRMs that only shoot 20 hexes. We did it in a campaign scenario once where enemy forces were attacking our resupply and refit FOB, and so we just kept our dropships on the ground to act as fire support anchors to the rest of our mechs, many of which were only half-fixed.
>>92623423>>92623478YOU MISUNDERSTAND the dude shows up with a hulk themed lance and the shows up with a lakers lance
>>92623642I'm rooting for you BatChall Anon. I hope he replies one day.
>>92623207Torso looks waaaay too squat and the gauss rifle is stupid bigThat Emperor looks fucking great though
>>92623936I have brought great dishonoru...>>92624052It's more that I want to shame him at this point.>>92624087Yes, that was the issue. Specifically the one who was saying that a MadCat would beat the IS lance every time.
>>92624052He already replied, saying that my and NEA's games were proof of his point and that he wouldn't bother to respond further. He's a lily-livered coward, the son of an honorless dog and a dilettante who is unwilling to get his hands dirty to try and prove his point for fear of failure undermining him.
>>92623478Is this a trick question? Battletech nations are just Earth nations smooshed together.Except its only the nations that midwit midwesterners can remember exist, which is why the setting is so meme-y.
>>92624226which earth nations do you smoosh together to get the muskegon coalition
>>92624298native americans
>>92623969>They're an absolute brick of a unit that's nigh-unkillableGet hit by a single lbx pellet. Lawn dart check. Fail cuz fat. Die.
>>92624177It's very disappointing. I ceded him the terrain, not only because that's how batchalls work. But because I knew he would need that large a handicap to have a prayer of beating me.
>>92624226Read the question.
>>92624298Michiganders.
>>92624308That's why you keep them on the ground. Can't fall out of the sky if you aren't flying.
>>92622473Paint your minis.
Besides GM, are there any other modern companies which are still around in the 32st century?
>>92624641Boeing, somehow
>>92624226>Except its only the nations that midwit midwesterners can remember existI don't think any of them would be able to tell me what Hansa is referring to in European history.
>>92624641Nissan, Lockheed.
>>92624641Apple Computers (Interstellar)
>>92624693I love this bit because its classic Macintosh era apple carried hundred of years into the future rather than smart phone era apple.
>>92619765It's been a while since I browsed this thread, may you please drop the latest version of your campaign system, pretty please
>>92624641>Topps >Boeing >Nissan>Harley Davidson>Lockheed>John Deere >Caterpillar >Browning
>>92623642What does this mean? I only check /tg/ every other month or so.
>>92624709>in battletechs timeline Steve Wozniak took over apple instead of Steve Jobs so it continued to improve on the mac
>>92624709>Apple Computers Interstellar is an ancient company with a recorded history that began in the twentieth century. Since its inception, the company has produced high quality items that are always a bit ahead of its rivals. Predictions from the 80's are a fun thing.
>>92624785Don't worry about it, hahaBut if you had to put money down, do you think a Mad Cat w/ Clan appropriate piloting and gunnery could beat a typical 4th SuccWar lance 8/10 times?
>>92623969Common DropShips have less armor and firepower than a Lyran scout lance. While not easy to crack they are well within the abilities of a company. Given they pay-off of killing the bad guy's transport, supplies, and repair bays, well worth the effort. What is really funny is they take half an hour to cold launch, so if you can sit outside their weapon range you have eternity to pink them to death.
Why do people acclaim Catalyst as the reason why the game is popular today when in most likely it was a combination of fans on Youtube and the 2 video games that where released in 2018 and 2021?
>>92623478Easy. The Clan Jade Falcon Occupation Zone and a bunch of space that will soon be part of the Clan Jade Falcon Occupation Zone.
>>92624657Actually yeah, lots of Germans in the Midwest, hence Lyrans too. Lots of Scandihoovians too, hence Rasalhague. Then they vaguely understood that Japan was evil because it was stealing their car manufacturing, and also Commies were bad, hence the evil Asian faction. Davion was the good guy generically American/British faction for all the WWII nerds to beat up on the evil Asians.Then they realized their setting was pretty bland, so they did a speedrun trying to name other countries and threw them all into the FWL.
>>92625106>dies
>>92625078In 2018 new people were getting into the game, but they always had a hard time knowing where to start and where to get minis that didn't look like they were sculpted in the '80s. (IWM had a lot of decent ones by then, but only for the later eras and starting there is a nightmare.) The newer eras were pretty dead, and I'll argue that a setting can't remain interesting forever if it's frozen in time. Now we have starter boxes that aren't embarrassing, and they're found at bookstores. The AGoAC box is the best thing to happen to the game in decades. Alpha Strike might end up being even more important.Between the recguides and upcoming IlClan-era plastics, we'll soon have more people playing in the current era. I can't wait - it'll be like in the '90s when stuff felt like it was actually happening.
>>92624641Lockheed, Ford, Nissan, and Krupp, just off the top of my head. There are more, but I'd have to go looking.
>>92625187>Alpha Strike might end up being even more important.Valk is that you? I thought you got kicked out
>>92625187>Alpha Strike might end up being even more important.Bait post or literally retarded.
>>92625230Hell no.I just see more players latching onto Alpha Strike. There's been a general trend of wanting wargames and board games to be shorter.
>>92624992Do I think ~2500BV worth of clan mech could beat ~5,000BV worth of IS mechs?Yes.Madcat U, underwater map vs randomly rolled 5k worth of IS mechs.
>>92625239My lgs has a dedicated alpha strike day. It does not have a dedicated btech day. One of these games has more players and spends more money than the other.
>>92625242It's also more tournament-friendly, like what the Wolfnet guys are doing, and tournaments are good publicity at cons and in game stores.
>>92625042Dude I don't know what dropship stats you're looking at, but each individual facing on a Union has 180 armor, and the attacker still needs to roll locations so it's no guarantee that focused fire from a single direction all goes to that location. Despite one of our Unions being focused fire by an enemy Thumper from off-map as well as taking several turns of conventional fire from numerous units, none of the facings ever even went below 100. The engines were hot, and the plan was to lift it to orbit if it looked to be getting too chewed up, but that never proved necessary because we were able to win the fight before that. We kept the Leopard, Gazelle and Fury rolling around on their little wheels so that they could try and get into the fight, but mostly to keep them from being arty-bait.The only real threat was the Thumper because it wasn't something we could respond to very easily since we lack arty of our own (one of the players doesn't like it and throws a fit if its ever suggested we get some) to provide counter-battery fire, but once we won the fight, we dispatched a lance of our scouts to chase it off, and it fled before they got there, so the Union was fine.
>>92625256I'm gonna be honest your full of shit.
>>92625273Look it up yourself. The war room. Memphis TN. It's on the website.
>>92625273Not him but my store owner also tries to push AS for unclear reasons. No Quarter Con at DGM, you can look it up too
What kinds of mechs and vees are usually used in stuff like recovery and salvaging operations? Specifically for the dracs
>>92625288huh. so they do. Although I feel it's a bit disingenous to say that you have a dedicated game day when you're competing with MTG and Star Wars for table space.
>>92625269NTA, but what era are you playing in? Cause an immobile dropship on the ground with only 3 locations on a side is going to have a far tighter groupings than a mech. Unless you are playing Succ Wars, where the standard PPC is the best long range weapon you have, Gauss Rifles, ER energy weapons, and sufficient missile fire will start carving up a dropship faster than you thought. It's gets even easier if you have Vees, an LRM Carrier or Schrek will start grinding it down quick. It's not easy per say, but it's easier than you think it would be.
>>92625413That's... completely normal at FLGS's.
>>92624778Forgot Krupp.
>>92625375Probably all that cousin fucking.
>>92625413And 40kids. I'll give you one guess why we have only 3 btech players and a herd of alpha strike players.
>>92625536>John Deere actually made it?I will now buy an armed agro mech for this scheme.
>>92625746They have kids and can't spend 4 hours at a time?
>>92625187Go stare at a mirror.
>>92625187One store doesn't represent the whole.In Utah the majority of people who play BT is classic with people playing Alpha in a blue moon when they want to do regiment vs regiment style combat.
>>92625728That's more of a Tyler thing
>>92625906>UtahYou have piqued my interest sir. I just moved to Utah recently and have been trying to find some battletech to play.
>>92625973I believe they majority of the time they just meet up and play. I think one store has a miscellaneous Miniatures gaming where 3/4 of the time they do Battletech.
>>92625269A Union has about 650 points of armor. About 2 Atlases. For a 3000 ton object it isn't much.
>>92621500Here's a thought on this - I know all the big Clan Wolf front line mechs.But what second line mechs are iconic to them? For other clans I kinda know - the JennerIIC for the Nova Cats, Matador and vapour eagle for Steel Viper, Piranha for the Sharks, Kodiak for the Bears. What fun second line mechs does Wolf have access to, if any?
>>92626088Before the invasion I can only think of the Orion IIC. Afterward, the Pack Hunter (if CW-in-exile counts), Lobo, Tundra Wolf, and Blood Reaper come to mind but I think there are quite a few more.
>>92626088What era?The Linebacker is a worse Timby, brought about by shortages in manufacturing. Otherwise, this is their RAT circa 3072. You might want to talk a look at the Crusader clans book too, it breaks out first line vs second line RATs
>>92626275I hate the linebacker so much, never used it but I always get it confused with the linesman (apocryphal capellan mech which served as inspo for the mauler)
>>92626275Thanks that is useful. I did quickly check on the Crusader book, but most of what I saw was fairly standard stuff - Shadowhawk IICs and Griffin IIcs, plus Locust IICs. Did clan wolf have any special attachment to these, or are they just common clanner second lines?One interesting thing I also see is the Naga, being an Omni that keeps popping up in Wolf Second line forces. I'm guessing that's because its an artillery mech? Another one I hadn't realized is the Glass Spider seems more popular than the Rifleman IIC - its not a mech I have a lot of experience with. How does it compare with the Rifleman?
>>92622602Just because the Helios looks bad doesn't negate the fact that Shimmy's art is shit, Shimmy's a talentless hack at best, and Shimmy sucks as a human being and his inevitable death will only improve the human race.
>>92626372I'll be real dude, I don't know shit about clan red dog. Not my faction you know? I'm personally not a fan of the Naga since it feels like a clan Longbow, which I don't like either. You want arty as Clans? Bring some Hueys. Don't care much for the Glass Spider either. It's a dual gauss boat. Deadly but very lame.
Civil war era. I need recommendations for mechs for a solaris team turned mercenaries
>>92626481Pick whatever you want but make sure you're running Thunderbolt missiles they're hilarious when your opponent forget to bring AMS (everyone does)
>>92626497What are the rules for Tbolts against AMS? Does your missile just go poof?
>>92626539Yes
>>9262653950/50 chance to go poof.
are there people who actually like comstar and/or WoB?
>>92620634>>92621500picrel made me think if there are mech owners, both in setting and irl, put pinup girls decal on their mech. bonus point for anime ones
>>92626372Hard to fight honorably in an artillery mech. The Wolves were practical enough to sometimes use it in front-line units, but it made even more sense in garrison use.I don't know about the popularity of the Glass Spider vs. the Rifleman IIC, but the Glass Spider 2 (a pulse laser version) was built by Clan Wolf and the Rifleman IIC wasn't. They'd still have some by trade or trial, but not as many. The Rifleman IIC is better armed, but it's painfully slow and Clan Wolf isn't usually into that. Never mind that they developed the equally-slow Dire Wolf (then lost it, then regained production rights from the Smoke Jags).
>>92626539>Does your missile just go poof?Incredibly gay.
>>92625388Salvage industrialmechs, battlemech recovery vehicles, the Tonbo.
I'm looking up the tiger tank, it has an ice engine and zero heat sinks. So does this thing just get hot and have no way to cool off? Or am I missing something?
>>92626662ICE-equipped Conventional vehicles don't produce heat from Ballistic or Missile weapons. For energy weapons, they're required to include enough heat sinks to completely sink all the fire from their energy weapons. It means a medium laser(3 heat) weighs 4 tons instead of 1 for tanks.It's why most tanks rely on ammo based weapons.
>>92626662ICE vees dont need sinks.
>>92626662Tanks don't generate heat from non-energy weapons, so an ICE tank with only ballistics and missiles will have no heat sinks and not need any
>>92626638>counters are gayyou sound like a faggot who always picks rock, then cries when I picked paper
It's Friday, /btg/Did you do your besht?
>>92619750I think future games will reinvigorate interest in LAMs. Mostly due to the Ace Combat and derivatives becoming more mainstream
>>92622472Scorpion Empire
>>92619982>Panther *>Hatamoto-Chi *Kurita near-exclusive>JavelinVery common in FedSuns, rare elsewhere>RavenNear-exclusive to Capellans until after the 4th Succession war: FS captures some. >Cicada *Universal but rare outside FWL >KintaroRare everywhere, more common in FedSuns and Kurita.>Quickdraw *Universal with a slight lean towards Kurita, who still have a working factory.>Ostroc >Ostsol *Universal and uncommon.>Wolverine *>Thunderbolt Universal and common.>Victor *Capellan and Federated Suns>Firestarter >BattlemasterUniversal: Lyrans have more than anyone else.>Trebuchet *More common among Capellans, FWL, and Dracs (Whitworth is more common for the Lyrans, Suns uses more Dervishes and Valkyries but has some of both)>Stalker *Most common Assault 'Mech in the Sphere.Overall the list looks like the kind of thing you'd see near the border between the FedSuns and Combine near Earth in around 3045. You could very easily split it out into a pair of Kurita/Combine and FedSuns/FedCom lists; the ones with an asterisk would go to the Kuritas. Osts could easily go to either.
>>92620815I'm glad to hear it, long may the boxcars swing in your favor.
>>92626740yes
>>92626740I been wandering through this land, just doing the best I canbeen replaying the New Vegas Bounties series and it's got me kinda wanting to do a fronc stronc lance
>>92622472I'd go full romaboo
>>92626043>eggshells armed with sledgehammersDon't think too hard about the tonnage of armor vs tonnage of ship. that way lies madness. If you had ships armored at a similar ratio as a WW2 battleship or something, those three people who still play Aerospace would need 27 years to chew through a single facing on a McKenna.It's also only 3k BV, and has nifty capabilities like being able to make secondary targets without penalty due to the crew size, as well as being a stationary spotter 15 levels tall for all your LRM boats, also without penalty. This was especially helpful as we got attacked in the middle of our repair cycle, so several mechs had unrepaired damage from previous fights. In our case, it proved tough enough to tank all the fire directed at it until we won.>>926254273 sides, top and bottom. Each of which has 180 armor, slightly less on the top and bottom. It's 3051 in a universe without clans because our GM is that much of a grog, we're the 3rd Battalion, Falcons Regiment of the Silver Hawks Irregulars and we just finished invading Callison. That particular mission was our 3rd after our first mission had us being the tip of the spear, pirate point jumping in to secure the deep space radar array, and our 2nd had us rescuing a sibling battallion that hadn't done NEARLY so well fighting the 12th Lyran Guards RCT as we had. (no PC powers and custom mechs for them) We had air support in the form of the Callison Defenders (returning to their homeworld for the 1st time in 25 years or something), but for most missions, including this one, their job was just flying CAP to keep enemy ASF assets from bombing us again. (It took literal real world years to put my Wolverine back together last time the enemy ASF got thru) I'll just link my GM's website, it has most of the campaign details, although the TO&E isn't accurate anymore since we started using megamek to track our maint cycles.http://www.ci-n.com/~jcampbel/rpgs/battletech/campaigns/
>>92626740Hard to say.I went to my job and did it this week. Also joined a Lancer campaign and am prepping for the magical girl one that starts next week, but the RPG campaign I'm running, I've had no ideas for, so I delayed till a later weekend. Plus I'm prepping for the new map campaignStuff is starting to come together for Instant Action v4 though
>>92626807Thanks for the breakdown.
>>92626762LAMs are dead friend.To complicated and not actually any good.
>>92626740i think so im exceedingly pleased how much i have improved in the last 6 months
>>92626942The ruleset is trash, but the concept is coming back. That or just outright aircraft getting a glowup, but I doubt it since that conflicts too hard with the mechs.
>>92626959Nice, that's a hell of a difference
How bad was Shrapnel 16?
Let me tell you something, I do not like instances like this where a mech is described, I try to build it, and then it doesn't end up working (not enough space for the heat sinks in this case)
>>92626996Did you try pulling the armor to make weight or is it a slot violation?
>>92626942>not actually any good.And?
>>92627015Disregard my stupid question, substitute another stupid question: Is the 18 doubles counting engine sinks?
>>92627024Engine sinks are always counted.
>>92627024>>92626996you can do it, but you have to reshuffle the positions of some of the weapons
>>92627015Yeah it's crits
how does CASE II work?
>>92626996yeah, it comes out a bit goofy you have to do something like this:
>>92627063Badly
>>92625266>It's also more tournament-friendly,That is a BAD thing. You do understand that, right?
>>92627074How will Bottom Anon get his femboy BloodName if there's no tournaments for him to enter?Haven't you ever thought about protecting our precious femboy?
>>92627090Fun news on that front, look what bottom won at adepticon
>>92626740Got at least two other dudes hooked on BT, so now I can get hopefully get games more often.
>>92625413My lgs has an Alpha strike group as well, about a dozen out of which 8 of us show up once a month for a game. The game needs house rules to really be worth playing in my opinion. Some kind of variable damage system, ammo types. The group has been slowly moving through the late Clan Invasion era, well be in 3062 next meetup.
>>92626991I don't think anybody read it besides the pearl clutchers.
>>92626968yeah no idea why i tried a sky scheme as my first paint attempt
>>92627170I don't think I've ever seen anyone use accusations of pearl clutching to defend something that wasn't bad
>>92626991No idea, I only look at the record sheets.
>>92627074Tournament mentality ruined 40k, but I've seen the Alpha Strike tournaments that WolfNet Radio organizes and they have good attitudes. They're gonna be fine.But it's more about AS being good for pickup games and not necessarily tournament play. Shorter games, more mechs so an early lucky shot doesn't determine the battle, and the mechs are oversimplified so you don't have to be as careful when selecting opposing forces. AS works fine if you play mechs from different eras against each other. In classic you'd better have someone experienced think it through or someone's going to feel like they never had a chance. I also think units other than mechs and tanks work better in Alpha Strike.
>>92624121>Torso looks waaaay too squat and the gauss rifle is stupid big>That Emperor looks fucking great thoughThey're using volumetrics to keep their 'Mechs in scale, and while they do have a little wiggle room it only goes so far.
BOO
>>92625266>more tournament-friendlyThat's literally antithetical to what Battletech was designed to be
what should I do with 1/3~half of the minis in agoac box that i don't really like, other than trading/ebaying?
>>92627327way too fat
>>92626991When I was flipping through the Jackalope section, I saw a Jade Falcon pilot who had faced prejudice and I was immediately worried about what the next couple of words would be. Luckily it's just the expected prejudices a traditional clan has against freebirths.
>>92621908Is this worth playing? Is there any (worthwhile) integration into the main 'mech game?
>>92627327not fat enough
>>92626481Black Knight, Marauder II, vulture, mad cat. I have done this and can give you the full customizations
>>92619857Only problem I have is the difficulties in heat management.
>>92627408Huh? Yes. The best game ever is the worth playing.
>>92627380Damn, I was hoping it was because she was a clanner
>>92627350Save them until a use comes up or trade them to someone for minis you do want.
>>92627350Could always use them as test models, keep them around if for parts if you feel like kit bashing or use them as debris in basing.
That one image people use for SAFE with the anime character grabbing their tit, what show was that from again?
>>92626740Setting up my garden, afterwards I hope to BTech once again
>>92627627Gunsmith Cats.
>>92627627Desert Rose no Pico
>>92627627Desert Rose: Snow Apocalypse Characters name is Irene Sanders
>>92627327That's disgusting.It's also really fucking funny because that goes far beyond the normal scale and it's styrofoam mechs, this is fully into "inflatable metal balloon" territory.
>>92627627>>92627704No, it from Desert Rose
>>92627740Styrofoam mechs was never true. Light mechs and modern fighter jets are almost identical in weight and surface area.
>>92625536>I thought it was the other way around, he was claiming there was NO WAY a Mad Cat could beat a generic Inner Sphere lance, only for a couple of people including NEA to playtest it and conclude a good MechCommander could pull it off at least half of the time.That was the original post, I batchalled someone who disagreed for the honor of the Inner Sphere.
>>92624785Retard who guzzles Clanner sperm things that a MadCat could beat a Warhammer, Phawk, Shawk, and Stinger almost every time. I batchall him. He refuses to answer me, and continues to mock me in threads. I have kept posting this to notify those of his dishonor and dezgra nature
>>92627862It's also canon lore, first novel encounter had Phelan taken down by a Mad/Cat that had just singlehandedly fucked up a pirate lance.
>>92626568Of course brother. Join us, for the Glory of Blessed Blake.
>>92627880Using clanner plot armor as actual evidence is stupid. If you disagree, download the newest version of MegaMek and let's fucking duke it out.
>>92626568Are you really asking that HERE of all places?Ave Blake
>>92627932This is /tg/ not /vg/
>>92627944What are you gonna do, fly him to your fuckin' house to play battletech?If you're a cowardly surat just admit it.
>>92626568yeswhy wouldn't there be
>>92627962>are you going to fly himIf anon is issuing chllenges he can't handle, that's his problem.A key ingredient in issuing a batchall is you can only bid force that you actually have, lol.
>>92627944how is it that LITERALLY EVERY FUCKING CLANNER IN THIS GENERAL IS A PUSSY ASS BITCH. I have more fucking respect for FedRat dogs than I do the likes of you. I piss in your general direction>Verification not required.
>>92627990You're in tabletop gaming, bid tabletop forces or fuck outta here, dishonorable freebirth.
>>92627982Go buy a car already.
>>92628018Anon can either walk his talk, or tuck tail and stfu.
>>92628026Dont you have teenagers on /soc/ to groom?
>>92627971Too bad half this stuff is ass on the tabletop. Looks neato at least
>>92628015It's fucking a MadCat Prime, against a Warhammer, Pixie, SHawk, and Stinger, have you not been paying attention? I'm taking IS. Nut up or shut up you vatgrown mutant.
>>92628044Can you even show up to the table though?
>>92628044>incestdo clanners have concept of blood-related (outside of bloodname or something), siblings and family anyway? other than the bears
as a noob i wonder why people actively hate fedcom. is that a meme? backlash from them being pushed as the mc faction in the past? (or so i heard, them being space america or something)
>>92628015Here's the background fluff in case you missed the last 20 threads.A couple namefags fought it IRL and documented it, and the Madcat won something like 3/4 and the 4th was a tie, but so far, the OG Clanner faggot never accepted the batchall.
>>92628065It's more of a matter that trueborn have to consequence for incest. Their Warriors are sterile, genetically prefect, vat grown clones.
>>92628084>accepted the batchall.One party sets the bar for forces, the other determines location, you don't get to pick both.Honorless freebirth scum don't get treated by clan customs unless they understand them and hold to them.
>>92628091>Warriors are sterile,Incorrect, they're on birth control, see the daughter of Aidan Pryde
>>92628107Wasn't Malvina chemically sterilised?
>>92628100>spreging out about rules lawyering of how a batchall works instead of just accepting the fightYeah, we got us a gen-u-ine Clanner tuberat here boys.
>>92628081Pure contrarianism sprinkled with mostly fake grognardism. The last time they were the uncomplicated protagonist "plot armor" faction was before 9/11. They broke up in a really absurd conflict where lots of stuff was running on plot fiat to ensure maximum damage to the non straight up evil people in the setting.
>>92628081They realize there are superior options
>>92628123No, she stopped taking birth control, and either way Aidan had active sperm or else it wouldn't have happened, so wether she stopped treatment or reversed her own sterility, it is not universally true that trueborns are sterile.Also it's canon that Elementals who are reduced in caste have freebirth children all the time, both male and female Elementals at that.
>>92628081Fedcom is kinda boring. Generic western and central european flair with nothing making them stand out from the thousand other "space knight" societies in sci fi.Admittedly the other factions aren't much more interesting.
>>92628081>backlash from them being pushed as the mc faction in the past? Yes. But over 20 IRL years agk>(or so i heard, them being space america or something)They aren't and never have been. People just like be contrary assholes. FASA deliberately made none of the factions Space America - or, rather, Space America existed in the backstory but is long gone by Current Year.
>>92628126If you can't show up to the field of battle, you lose by default.
>>92628126You have no honorClanner>NOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU CAN'T ALSO CHOOSE THE LOCATION YOU ONLY BID FORCES THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS YOU CANNOT YOU CAN'T NOOOSpheroid>Bet.Periphery Enjoyer>WHAT?? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF LIGHT INFANTRY AND SRM CARRIERS
>>92628081Feds are feds. Don't need more reason than that.
>>92628065Yes. In fact, Blood Houses form the foundation of all Clan politics.
Man, why are all the cool Jackalopes factionlocked? I don't mind raiding the CC to get a Tepoztēcatl, but most of the rest are fucking RotS and then get yiffed.
>>92628188I thought blood houses are just collections of blood-named warriors modeled on a knightly order. You need to be of the lineage to apply but the only 'real' members are the blood named people.
>>92628215No, they're like noble houses. All of them are descended from the same founder and are related.Politically, you're always supposed to protect and support your family first and to obey the House leader.
>>92626589Yes. a couple of the decal companies sell sheets of pinups, and you can also get them as waterslides for nail art. In-universe, the Lyran Sixth Guards (the Saucy Sixth) have a pinup as their unit emblem as well as a rep for putting them on their 'Mechs. One of the many things Greenberg's Godzillas do is pinups, alongside sponsorship decals and literal actual 'Mech cosplay.>>92626740Yep. Been a rough week but at least I got some BT reading in. >>92626568I'm a GM. An unapologetic badguy faction that does spooky shit, pilots a mix of great and incredibly fucking stupid 'Mechs, and has a simple but technically challenging color scheme is absolutely delightful. Also I grew up huffing Dune.
>>92626568In my experience there's three types of Blakist enjoyers.>Classic Comstar enjoyersThese guys tend to like the mystic, pre-3050 Comstar who were basically The Foundation But Sinister. Robes, mercenary proxies, complex plots and schemes, manipulating the balance of power throughout the succession wars, etc. These guys are most likely to be story-oriented BT enjoyers, GMs and novel readers.>ComGuard enjoyersThese guys tend to have come into liking the ComGuard via the Battle of Tukayyid, which is, admittedly, pretty cool. They like large scale combat, the clanbuster mechs, the cool recent art, and facing down the Clans on their own terms on an even footing. Pic related, I'm not one of them but I understand why they chose this path.>Word of Blake enjoyersThese guys like weird fucking mechs, weird tech, crazy batshit stuff, and just being unapologetic villains who do not play by the rules of the larger setting. Many of them were into the Jihad as Jihad stuff was coming out, others are new to the game but have found they like this crazy shit.
>>92627317I'm not talking about the size/volume, but the proportions.Torso is too squat, too squished, not vertical enough
>>92628274>>92628321>GMwhat does GM stands for?
>>92628321Love the Comguard angle, cool white mechs and a Star League inheritor without being incestuous furries that also take the mary sue card away from the incestuous furries, also enjoyable while taking a hard pass on the weird religious shit.
>>92628349General Motors
>>92628289>You will never take a Jade Falcon elemental prisoner and slowly convince her that love is more valuable than honor, eventually getting married and spending your golden years in Lyran Alliance with your children. Its over like never before anons...
>>92628349Good morning.
>>92628358the battle between lyrans and falcons is the purest for of love in this setting
>>92628349Guten Morgen
>>92628367Nein, ist guten nacht.
>>92628289All you have to do is get a contract alongside Raging Horde. It's an entire mercenary cluster exclusively made up of Battle Armor troops. Sure, there's a lot of inner sphere troopers, but all the elementals are already ex-clanners doing things that real clanners never would. Some of them have to be available.
>>92628377hope your hips are strong
>>92628349Gay Married
>>92628349Gay Master
wonder why there isn't amazon themed clan centered around elementals. missed opportunity
>>92628349Game Maker
>>92628349Game master
>>92628438wait, there's tabletop rpg version or something?
>>92628449There's like five of them. And I think a Traveller hack. Or at least there should be, nothing in BT's space is out of Traveller's wheelhouse except maybe the mechs themselves.
>>92628366>the battle between lyrans and falcons is the purest for of love in this settingTruth. One of our drawfags needs to recreate this, only it's a Zeus and Summoner trading shots, and the pilots faces are 50% hate, 50% lust.
>>92628449Yeah, Battletech has two. "A Time Of War" is very complex and detailed, "Mechwarrior Destiny" is more rules light.Some groups also just do Battletech: Total Warfare as a Players Vs Enemy type game with a GM producing scenarios and controlling the enemies.
>>92628321I like all three. Praise Blake/Focht!
>>92628081They're boring, and factions that get pushed and also happen to be boring get the most hate, clan wolf is a perfect example of the same effect to a greater extent.
>>92628444Definitely true, but i used this magical skill learned in grade school called context clues to pick the most appropriate answer.
>>92628555Yeah but Civil War was the last interesting era imo, so they get a pass. Theres redeeming qualities about the Jihad but was handled poorly
>>92628555Not saying they're not boring - but could you really argue any of the other Successor States are more interesting?You can maybe make an argument for FWL, but that's only if you deep dive. The only non-boring faction when the game started was most likely Comstar.
>>92628449There is, but GM also applies to tabletop games. When you have a large game and/or a campaign, it's often good to have one person take point for coordinating things; this person may or may not also play.Word of Blake was fun because they were basically a villain faction, and for a while it was very reasonable for every OPFOR to be WoB. So GMs got to run "NPCs" that they were able to develop and detail.
>>92627944Get captured and experimented upon by Capellans. Fucker there are some vidya that are honorary /tg/, and having such a pussy cop out just shows you are new or cowardly.
>>92628081I've actually been coming around to them more - from the stance of a "Lyran patriot," I should clarify. Just attempting to weld two separate states together is in of itself interesting and it's a shame how little Battletech has explored that since. Both sides benefited, but also set up their own respective downfalls. And it was great for the setting as a whole to create roughly two sides that could share tech and mech designs, make things less regional.On that note, I love Katherine and what she represents. Undermining a theoretical meritocracy by collaborating with die-hard Lyrans or those skipped over when privilege stopped being a ticket to success, trying to foster Steiner patriotism when she was from the FedSuns half. The self-interested hypocrisy is hilarious, and the idea of a politically radicalizing state where you're suddenly shoved out for not being loyalist enough is interesting.
>>92628469You can't depict too much lust on a blue board but I hope this captures the essence of your request
>>92628685i wonder how things would have turned out if 1) katherine was appointrd as heir in first place or 2) victor fucked her into his bitch
From the mind of the anon that brought you "Bronze Age Star League," I am proud to present "Super Mackio Bros"
>>92628722Brilliant. But I kind of want them without the Gausses ready to explode just looking at each other, those mechs are cute.
>>92628438You utter fugazi
>>92628377>5 trinaries of battle armorChrist, that's a lot of snu snu.
>>92628685I've weirdly started to like the FedSuns more, when I considered them the most boring to start. But I feel like its a curve everyone goes through. When you're a kid, you like the FedSuns because they're the good guys. Then you grow older and become a Taurian or a Drac because you see the FedSuns are hypocritical and evil.Then you realize EVERYONE is hypocritical and evil, and you better appreciate the FedSuns muddling their way through a universe filled with asshole retards who want to kill them. And it makes the insane shit Hanse pulled off seem even more impressive. The FedSuns and Lyrans may have been replaced by the Cappies and Clan Wolf as favourites. But no one has ever gotten as fucked up in setting as the Cappies were in the 4th Succession Wars. That's a helluva lotta freedom, my Lyran frenemy.
>>92628722It's only gay if ammo cannisters touch.
>>92628746Ghost Bears did it first.
>>92628753>the FedSuns are hypocritical and evil.People like to say this a lot, but it isn't particularly true.The FedSuns does have strong civil rights, especially compared to the Capellans and Dracs.>b-b-but the outback!Every Great House ignores their poor worlds, especially near the Periphery.
>look at the characters in MW5 clans>no enhanced imaging tattoos How do they expect me to play this?
>>92628742Alas, I did not draw a version without the gausses and it would be tricky to remove them now. I appreciate the compliment, though.May I offer you a superior Lyran scout mech instead?>>92628782To be fair, the FedSuns have civil rights like America has civil rights. You can do whatever you want, but that just means everyone is one accident away from being fucked because nobody is going to help them.At least the Lyrans invest in their people somewhat.
>>92628791I thought the Smoke Jags didn't go for EI that much?
>>92628722Was thinking more it cut to the pilots faces in the cockpits, but this is way funnier. >Lord have mercy, my Gauss rifle is about to crit!
>>92628808kekI figured, but that would have been compositionally more complicated than I tend to go for on MSPaint, and I couldn't resist the gauss CNB.Wiser comedians than me have recognized that there is nothing inherently funnier than a dick joke.
>>92628795>You can do whatever you want, but that just means everyone is one accident away from being fucked because nobody is going to help them.Show me where it says that the FedSuns has an unusually bad social safety net.
>>92628753The fedcom civil war was a hack job.Also all states as a rule act in aggregate as amoral sociopaths, so it is nice IMHO when you have to pic your '' good'' guys.Then there is also the fact that even amoral sociopathic systems there are degrees of asshattery. Davions try to be on the shallow end of that. Marks are too busy herding cats to care where they end up but as a rule are in the same neighbourhood. On the other end you have the dracs and chappies where the system demands an autocratic and it will make the Kurita or Liao into one or go down the family tree until they find one.And lyran don't care as long as the money is rolling.
>>92628795Yeah, but the Lyrans also actively perform terrorism on their own people.The FedSuns and the FWL are the most "free" factions, but approach it in different ways. The FedSuns have the best "baseline" of how bad they'll let shit get before the government interferes. The FWL puts way more power into local governments, which can be either better than the FedSuns, or worse depending. >>92628782The FedSuns have also been the faction least likely to warcrime throughout history. Probably goes with that "baseline" of what's acceptable.The biggest historical mistake the FedSuns ever made I'd argue is joining the Star League. That's led to irreparable damage with Taurian relations to this day. But at the time, it seemed like the best way to put a stop to constant Drac warfare. Which makes it so hilarious that later Davions were so dedicated to things like a New Star League or the Republic of the Sphere. The FedSuns have always been at its best when keeping the fuck away from shit like that.
>>92628791is the second one from right a guy or strong independent woman?>wonder if tranny is a thing in the clans
>>92628798The Smoke Jaguars are actually called out as being major users (alongside the Falcons), of the Invading Clans.
>>92628836>Which makes it so hilarious that later Davions were so dedicated to things like a New Star League or the Republic of the Sphere. The FedSuns have always been at its best when keeping the fuck away from shit like that.I guess they're just idealistic.Wasn't the First Prince also the only one of the Successor Lords who wanted to keep the Star League together after the Amaris War?
>>92628795>To be fair, the FedSuns have civil rights like America has civil rights. You can do whatever you want, but that just means everyone is one accident away from being fucked because nobody is going to help themThat is a good thing. The trade off for not getting state help but whatever private charity help available is that the state has comensurately less rights to demand shit from the citizenry, as if they do it is seen as the overreach that it is.
>>92628830Like everywhere? I'm a Fedsuns kinda guy, and this is a pretty big part of their identity, that the Outback stinks because there's no guarantee of any form of investment.What's a bit more interesting is that if you dig into it, you notice the big difference between the FedSuns and the Lyrans or FWL - the Davions are actually, out of those states, the most anti-corporate, and willing to slap a corporation upside the head if it breaks their freedom rules. I think its a deliberate backed in cynicism of the setting that this results in less economic growth for the FedSuns as a whole compared to the Lyrans or FWL.
>>92628834>And lyran don't care as long as the money is rolling.That's kind of a meme. As far as I can tell, the wealthy of the Commonwealth don't particularly wield much political power; in the LC, it's just kind of a toss-up whether you get a nice Katrina or a shit Katrina.>>92628836>Yeah, but the Lyrans also actively perform terrorism on their own people.Well, you're certainly not wrong there. It's a very strange nation.>The FedSuns have the best "baseline" of how bad they'll let shit get before the government interferes.Not really. After they conquered the Sarna march, they literally just let us rot. Recall that Zurich only even had a hospital because Kai privately funded one with his Solaris money.
>>92628846The FedSuns are definitely the most idealistic, which is their greatest strength and weakness. On one hand, this is why they're so much less likely to warcrime than other factions. On the other hand, it keeps them signing onto things that will only end in disaster.
>>92628838>wonder if tranny is a thing in the clansThe general consensus is that it isn't. The Clans don't waste resources on stupid things like mental health, so they wouldn't give a shit about the 41%. If you can't deal with what you have, you're too weak to live anyway.The Clans also like everyone to fit into neat little boxes, and they don't really give a shit about self-expression or identity or anything like that.The counterarguments are that the Clans have divorced sex from reproduction, and sometimes use men as "genemothers" and women as "genefathers", so to some extent they shouldn't care about gender at all.
>>92628349Tournaments, and their consequences, were an unmitigated disaster for wargaming. Game Master, the dude who actually runs campaigns. It's my job to pick OPFOR (opposing forces), set up scenarios, track ongoing plot threads, and generally keep people interested and engaged enough to continue playing.>>92628449BattleTech was originally intended to be a campaign game, which makes it struggle a bit in pick-up fights.There are extremely extensive campaign rules -- four sets of them, in fact -- for BattleTech. They have different levels of complexity. I prefer an older, medium-complexity one where players have to scrounge up parts and ammunition, as well as keep a reasonable payroll of technicians and ground crew, pay for interstellar transport, etc. I don't include really granular bullshit like maintaining individual components, having to customize engines for a particular chassis, or paying for exact amounts of fuel and food, which is the most complex current campaign level. Chaos Campaign is free on the main website. It's the simplest and abstracts almost all the repair and customization to a simple "warchest" of points. You can get bonus warchest points by doing objectives in missions, it's good for new GMs and players. There are many different RPG systems, each of which interfaces with the actual wargame differently. I prefer MechWarrior 3rd Edition for my campaigns, because it's a lot less headache-inducing than A Time of War, it's not fundamentally broken/90% homebrew in later eras like MW1e and MW2e are, and it integrates very well with the tabletop wargame in a way that Destiny absolutely does not. If nitty-gritty wargaming campaigns seem like too much work, you can also run a simple series of "historical" scenarios, which are linked together. These tend to be a lot of fun when you have a couple-four players but not a way to get everyone together all at the same time.
>>92628836>The FedSuns have the best "baseline" of how bad they'll let shit get before the government interferes.Except in the outback, where they won't even remember they have planets until one of them is actively on fire. No infrastructure? Yawn. No education. Who cares? No economy? So what? No government presence at all so the planet's official government is listed as "anarchy"? Kinda embarrassing, don't tell anyone.The only thing that has seem to made the Davions sit up and pay a modicum of attention was a big chunk of it seceding. And even then, their response was to just garrison some of the remaining outback and let things fall where they may.
>>92628852>Like everywhere?Where, specifically? Which books? I don't remember seeing it in either House book.And yes, the Outback is mentioned as being poor and shitty, but again that's true of all of the Houses.
>>92628855Well remember one flaw of the FedSuns - that good baseline I mentioned didn't apply to active military zones. This is where Hanse really fucked up. St. Ives should have been the model - breaking up the Cappies into harmless smaller states, rather than trying to turn it all into a march. But I guess he wanted those clear spaceways for his later war with the Dracs. Have to wonder how history would have played out if he'd tackled the Dracs first.
>>92628838If you can't tolerate trans women, you should probably stay away from modern BT products. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just that it's the reality that if you're that bothered by it, it's best for your own mental health if you stay away.>>92628851Whatever works for you. If I had the choice, I'd happily give up a portion of freedoms I can't afford to pursue for the guarantee of healthcare, but I get that's not a universal opinion.
>>92628869To clarify, by "baseline" I'm referring to civil rights, not developmental or economic. As in, as a citizen of the FedSuns, you have, on average, the best civil rights in the Inner Sphere when it comes to legal issues. (The FWL varies from better than this to worse).This isn't really something that gets brought up much in the setting though since its all about the economy of giant robots. But if you were in universe say, suing a noble or a corporation, you'd want to be in the FedSuns.
>>92628870>And yes, the Outback is mentioned as being poor and shitty, but again that's true of all of the Houses.I feel like I hear that about the FedSuns a lot more than I hear that about the LC or the FWL.>>92628873Most of the Sarna march wasn't an "active" military zone by any means, though. Hanse failed to grasp the most basic of all rules of conquest -- if you don't take care of the people you conquered, you're gonna have rebellions. And, what do you know, he did.And FWIW, the Capellan March had the same complaints about him in the 3020s, including planets that were traditionally Fed and planets conquered in the 3rd SuccWar.
>>92628892The problem is that it's the kind of "civil right" that's basically meaningless if you can't stop subsistence farming for the length of time it takes to take advantage of it. Memes about real-world countries aside, negative rights are not the ultimate be-all virtue of statebuilding. Some positive rights really help raise the average QOL.This is why the Taurians have so many fans. Sure, you have to do military service, but everyone gets educated. I think it's likely that one of the reasons the Taurians haven't been entirely conquered is because the average Taurian is healthier and more motivated than the average Fed.
>>92628895>I feel like I hear that about the FedSuns a lot more than I hear that about the LC or the FWL.You do. No other state has it that bad. The fedsuns outback is literally worse than a lot of the periphery in terms of economy and education, although it's less likely to deal with pirates, since there is a military presence sometimes and they're so broke that there's nothing to steal anyway. If you go out to the Rim Commonality, they make stuff, they buy and sell stuff, they have roads and hospitals and schools and factories. If you go out to the fedsuns outback, there's a pretty good chance the spaceport is just a patch of dirt with a sign that reads "spaceport" and there's a not insignificant chance that the only two buildings with power on the entire planet are an HPG staffed by two acolytes and a bored mercenary security guard and the power plant that feeds it.
The carpet keeps eating parts
>>92628895You hear about the outback more because writers and fans are lazy hacks that love to harp on the muh hypocrisy stuff. Meanwhile some sources have the combine kicking girls out of school at twelve and having racehorse tier medicine for their lower classes but since they're expected to be evil that's not a big deal.
>>92628838tqbh, I can't see the Clans being overly supportive of Transgender people, especially among the Trueborn. If the whole Trueborn thing is building a better human, then you've essentially reinvented the "God placed you in the correct body" argument, only instead of God it's Bill from the science caste who you can literally go down and see, and he can pull out the paper work saying "Brad, trueborn, bloodhouse Ward, male. Aff, you're in the right body." And what are you going to do, say he made a mistake? Suggest your body, forged from the genetic legacy of the Clans finest warriors, is somehow inadequate? That seems like a good way to get busted down to labor caste at best, and face repeated Trials of Grievance at worst. If anything, I could see more bigoted Trueborn using the existence of gender dysphoria as a reason freeborn are inferior. "Look, some of the filthy freeborn know not in which body they belonging! The treachery of unregulated genetics could lead us all to ruin, were it not for the stewardship of the Trueborn, free from such random pitfalls." Freeborn might be allowed socially to transition, but then you ask the question of "do we spend resources on this Freeborn to fix the condition/transition them?" So you run into another roadblock. The only arguments I've ever heard for it is that Clans don't care about sexual orientation, and they will sometimes call men genemothers, and vise versa for women. The latter doesn't hold much water, as calling a man a mother doesn't equate to accepting that he would transition, and the Clan would probably call the genemother by male pronouns with him continuing to be male in all senses. The latter opens up a whole can of worms as to what being trans actually is (sexual preference or true identity) which is far too politispergy for a Battletech thread.
>>92628855The Lyrans in general kind of just seem like the "it just works" of the states. Book even says the Archon rarely gets involved and just lets the bureaucracy do its job and really it seems like more issues arise when the Archon tries to do more. Also provably if the Archon has davion in their name than things don't work out well see things getting a lot better as soon as Adam was in charge.
>>92628919If you look at the map, you realize that the FedSuns Outback IS the Periphery. As in, there are a lot of parts of it that are as far out as a lot of places in the Concordat or Magistracy. Most successor states just go "lol see you" and ditch places that far out, but the FedSuns seems to want at least nominal membership out there. So the rest of that part of the Periphery is absolutely that bad, but the FedSuns is the only portion you ever get to see. Like, it was implied that the parts of the periphery that the Outworlds Alliance ditched were that bad if not worse too. Like check out where Filtvelt is on the map. Then compare to where the Rim Commonality is.
>>92628954But battletech is for everyone
>>92628909>Sure, you have to do military service, but everyone gets educated.I find in general people are far less against compulsory civil service if the benefits are worth it. Taurians have some of the best social services in the sphere and you know that everyone worked for it in the way the could.
>>92628954>and the Clan would probably call the genemother by male pronouns with him continuing to be male in all sensesFor a man go be a genemother, his DNA is spliced into an egg (instead of being left in a sperm). That's it. There's nothing else even remotely female about him, and he'll probably go on to be genefather go others.
>>92628738That's amazing. Urbie Toad next? Or maybe a Whitworth.
>>92628753I dislike the federated suns because they have the least pronounced identity of any great house and they're basically untouched for almost the entirety of the setting's history. yeah, they say bad things happen to them, but this most recent invasion by the DC is the first negative event of actual consequence to happen to them IF the results actually stick and aren't rolled back to the way things were before.
>>92628959>the Archon rarely gets involved and just lets the bureaucracy do its job and really it seems like more issues arise when the Archon tries to do more.Pretty accurate. To be honest, the whole "Lyran generals are incompetent" meme sorta falls apart when you look at their track record. The meme should be "Lyran generals are actually really good, and then some overpaid politician on the Homefront bungles it, and undoes all the militaries hard work." Between letting the Hogs form their own country, (bad!)Katrina's whole reign, (bad!)Melissa's botched invasions and financial decisions, the Lyran's worst enemies seem to be on Tharkad.
>>92628962Holy shit if you compare the outback to the outworlds wastes, the outback has it way better. At least in the outback you get regular jumpship traffic to send letters and you do not get a pirate band every so often to come and take over before being bombed by some outworlds, drac or davion antipiracy action who then leaves, and in two years a new pirate band comes, flattens a building or two to show they mean business and are the new bosses.
>>92628615Civil War era was interesting if you were a FedCom player. Now to be fair, after being pushed for the majority of BattleTech history a lot of players were fans. But the FedCom Civil War sucked the air out of every other plot line in the game. Heck, there were no other plot lines. It was how the Civil War obliquely effected your chosen faction. The best everyone else got was mention in FM Updates shorter than 20 Year Update.
>>92628974I wonder what's going on now that the state has withdrawn from most of the former Concordat. It's too interesting a place for how little attention it's gotten.>>92628081It's easy mode. Two states join up to form a bully megastate that goes on a rampage. Who's going to root for that? Also they get a ridiculous proportion of the new mechs at the time.
>>92629030>Between letting the Hogs form their own countryIsn't that one more on the Dracs and Comstar?
>>92629053>Isn't that one more on the Dracs and Deac owned Comstar?Remember, focht sold ComStar to the dracs so he can play prussian army with the ComGuards
>>92629051No Tiepolo? Sad. Dude was pretty ok for a Primus
>>92628954I feel like this is just you injecting your view of things into it. You could just as easily say that, since the clans don't discriminate based on sex/gender in their warrior castes, they wouldn't see the transition as taking anything away from the "perfectly engineered warrior" -- no more than getting bionic enhancements does.Shit, we know for a fact that at least some clan scientists cloned a great warrior and intentionally flipped the sex of the baby because they didn't think it made a difference to the qualities they were looking for. The fact they cloned instead of sibko'd was a bigger deal to everyone involved than the fact the messed with the sex.Clanners don't care about our ways of thinking; the whole point (and the whole fun, IMO) of the clanners is getting to have aliens in human bodies. Anything that intuitively makes sense must be thrown out the window.>>92628974You don't have to preach to me, I'm the choir. My birth country has mandatory service.>>92629009I think I'm saving my Urbie for an Urbie/Jaegar transformation combo. But actually, Toad is an interesting idea. Hmmm... I'll definitely sleep on that one.
>>92629051Those Mariks are the most 80s thing I've ever seen.>I wonder what's going on now that the state has withdrawn from most of the former Concordat. It's too interesting a place for how little attention it's gotten.I'd love a Tamar Rising but for the opposite corner of the map. Let's see what's happening in these chaotic marches.
>>92629024The Federated Suns/unity/loyalist faction basically losing the civil war despite military victories seems like a pretty negative event to me. Most of the Capellan wank involves them styling on Davions, even when they really shouldn't be able to.
>>92629051>>92629108If I recall correctly, a lot of those ex-taurian worlds are going to be very heavily armed, since it's mentioned that worlds declaring independence and taking whole battalions or more of mechs with them was quite common in the 3090s-3120s.Also, given that the insane retardation of the junta was the overwhelming cause for worlds fucking off, it would be interesting to see how many would immediately return to the fold now that the taurians have their shit back together
>>92629092Really I think there is a legit question on if the clans would even see it crop up within their society. Mainly because I'm not sure if we've actually nailed down the specific physical or environmental conditions that lead to gender dysphoria. I'd actually wonder if gender rolls really play much of a roll at all in their society since we know that they seem to have no concept of separating the sexes. I can't imagine it will ever be fully explored by the series especially in the current environment but it's interesting to think about.
>>92629122they have been in a comfortable position from basically the day the were formed to the end of the republic, the DC taking new avalon is so far the only case of them seeing a significant territorial loss that could do lasting damage to the state and hasn't been immediately rolled back yet.
>>92629145I definitely agree that it would be interesting to explore. There's a real question about the extent to which dysphoria does or doesn't have to do with gender roles.Personally, I believe the Clans lacking (warrior caste, at least) gender roles will probably make warriors identifying as trans rarer but not zero, but as you said, the science is still up in the air on that one.
I stole them back from the carpet
>>92629164??? The FedSuns have been nearly fucked by the Dracs at multiple points in their history. They joined the Star League in order to get Hegemony help against the Dracs, and then nearly died to the Dracs when the succ wars started if not for Kentares. The FedSuns have consistently portrayed being forced into constant defensive war in order to maintain their, admittedly large borders. Hanse Davion's expansion of the realm was a massive deviation from this. And since Battletech has been a thing, the 4th succession war was the only real highpoint for the FedSuns. After that they bungled '39, lost the Lyran Half of the FedCom, suffered massive material losses during the Civil War, had more significant material losses due to the March Lords fucking around, and lost the Pleiades to the Taurians.Then they lost a ton of planets to grab Victoria, only to lose that too. Then got dunked on by Liao and Kurita in short order. Yeah, the FedSuns have been good at eventually struggling back to territorial integrity, but that's hardly comfortable.
>>92628962It's Interesting, the FedSuns has always been the biggest state...But it always had a pretty thin corridor of worlds closest to earth, esp when compared to Lyrans or Cappies. 4th Succession and FedCom make much more sense in that context.
>>92629223>nearlyyeah, not a single territorial loss of their home turf has stuck for their entire history, the recent drac offensive is the only one that hasn't been instantly deleted.kurita and steiner got a giant chunk bitten out of each of them by the clans, steiner's especially fucked right now. the FWL effectively didn't exist for a while, they didn't get much better afterwards. the cappies spent a large portion of history being beaten up and dismantled, the writers pull a billion victories out of thin air and they're still not back to what they originally were.the federated suns are the only ones that went through the hundreds of years between the creation of the great houses to the end of the republic unscathed.
>>92629305You seem like you are a chatbot that has been given a directive to argue something, not an actual human reading and comprehending what other people say.
have there been any 'global/grand campaign' for battletech, like (sorry for mentioning) 40k's 13th black crusade or whfb's storm of chaos?
>>92629321There have been experiments with doing that sort of thing but like GW's efforts it often devolved into the writers getting attached to a pre-written outcome and massaging the odds or outright ignoring actual outcomes.
>>92629321canon gencon events for operation Bulldog and for the Jihad. There may be more that I'm unaware of.
>>92629321>>92629336CGL has generally concluded it's a bad idea because leaving the outcome of your story up to what's basically chance turns out to not be a great idea.NEA nuked the Kell Hounds with an urbie at one of the canon events.
>>92629313you seem to be ignoring the point.the writers can say that the federated suns have had horrible material losses or whatever other bullshit, but they've lost absolutely nothing substantial. it doesn't matter how many "near disasters" they've had, nothing actually bad happened to them.they were larger and controlled more originally capellan territory at the end of the end of the republic than at the beginning of the first succession war. they're the only great house to go the overwhelming majority of history without permanently losing a significant portion of their original territories.they have won without end just by being the only great house to never be grievously wounded.
>>92628615There was a significant period of IRL time where if you weren't a fan of a faction directly involved in that specific event then you got absolutely nothing at all other than how the author's pet's actions effected your guys.. Not even the usual lack of focus when shifted out of the spotlight, but the Fartcom Civil War genuinely took up all available hands and shafted everyone else in favour of a hackneyed rise and fall.The Fedcom Civil War was a marvel comicbook event.
Police mechs!Captcha: SRM H
>>92629351I'm absolutely convinced that literal random chance would have made a better story than everything that happened after jihad, a fucking chat bot could come up with better writing.
>>92629420>police hunchbackThat's pretty hardcore.
>>92629507Those AC20 bean bag rounds will fuck you up
>>92627408The big part of integration is having a real character slotted inside your mech. Otherwise if you are not interested in running a campaign with an emphasis on player characters themselves (wether they are Mechwarriors, techs, pilots or whatnot) then it's not "worthwhile".
>>92629321>have there been any 'global/grand campaign' for battletech, like (sorry for mentioning) 40k's 13th black crusade or whfb's storm of chaos?BattleTech did canon, or canon-advising, battles at GenCon for most of its early career. FASA kept a fairly tight rein on those, so they'd only affect a limited area. They also published periodic news updates in several different magazines (mostly BattleTechnology) as a way of advancing the plot going into the 4th Succession War and Clan Invasion, with tie-in scenarios at conventions. FASA backed off the whole canon thing later on. With the exception of Bryan Nystul, lulzy motherfucker that he is, fighting a Trial of Grievance over the canonicity of the cartoon series. He used his position as Line Developer to create a horrible murderbot to defend his position. Then when he won he declared the cartoon canon... as a propaganda cartoon from the Lyran Commonwealth.FanPro/CGL tried to do more canon battles for the Jihad. That didn't work out well, because they wanted each scenario to end in a certain way before they started playing. It turns out that a bunch of faction-whoring autists who refuse to work together as the "good guys" go up against a tightly-oiled team of experienced old fucks who don't mind playing the bad guys, the bad guys win. Hard. A lot. Even when Catalyst tried valiantly to load the dice. Then they tried a naval canon game. That also had to be decanonized because they wanted a particular result. This time the person pushing the scenario's design document didn't understand how busted the aerospace rules were and fucked up BAD at cheating. More recently they've shifted to doing a different style of worldwide events. These are just special scenarios set in a particular time period, with some unique maps and props. You can still find a couple of them online. The Gen Con and other convention games are only tied into the game plot rather than advising it, which is.. much smarter.
>>92629451The Jihad was written to explain the previously-written garbage developed for Mechwarrior: Dark Age (the clickytech game). Very little care went into the initial Dark Age setting, imo. Rumor has it that when CGL got the license, they were required not to retcon any of the MW:DA stuff. So they've slowly tried to explain how we got there and then slowly moved the setting back to familiar territory. It could've gone better. They have a decent excuse for the Jihad - it was back when bookstores were dying but ebooks weren't big yet, so books were just a hard sell. Better to focus on sourcebooks sold in game stores.
>>92629653>Rumor has it that when CGL got the license, they were required not to retcon any of the MW:DA stuff.Not a rumor, that's been very explicitly stated by multiple line developers. They also didn't have the novel rights back yet, which made things a little spicy in that department. It's the whole reason Shrapnel and their officially-sponsored fanfic webstie even exist.
>>92629612>Then when he won he declared the cartoon canon... as a propaganda cartoon from the Lyran Commonwealth.Which is the funniest possible way of handling it, and I salute him.
>>92627116bottom already posted a few times
>>92629030>Lyran generals are incompetent"That's not the meme. It was always "social generals are incompetent".
>>92627880It wasn't a single madcat.
Hi there, I'm just starting to get into Battletech as a cheap alternative to GW miniatures games + it's something for my brother-in-law and I to do together. I was planning to paint up and generally aim for a Rasalhague vibe for my mechs (I am aware there's no rules or limits on that kind of thing) but something struck me last night. There's a bunch of references to individual characters or mercenary companies with themes associated with Native American and Mexican culture stuff, but are there any explicit factions that have that as well? Idk how to put it but something about Comanche warriors in Jenners and Cicadas running rough-shod around bigger heavier mechs makes my dick hard.
>>92630208single madcats in your area
>>92630214clan nova cat is the faction with the most native american flavor
>>92630214Trinity Worlds in the Free Worlds League.
>>92630230>Clanners>Anything but a faint dusting of flavor on their Kerensky Cult
>>92630214Like the others have said, the Trinity Worlds - Camacho's Caballeros if you need a specific unit - and Clan Nova Cat fit the bill. You can, of course, make up your own force to fit it as well
I just picked up the beginner box and I'm kind of disappointed by the scale of the mechs. I've always thought that battletech used larger models, to put it in 40k terms I thought a mech would be almost the size of a sentinel, not the same size as basic infantry.
>>92630392It's a 6mm scale game dude
>>92630398Like I said, I'm new to the tabletop side of Battletech. I just figured that for a wargame where there's probably only 2-10 models on the table for most games, it would use larger models.
>>92630392you could try to commission someone to 3D print some models if you just want some big ones to paint and look at
>>92630392>I've always thought that battletech used larger modelsPlay N-scale or Big Scale then. Nobody is stopping you. You just have to provide pretty much all the minis to your group.
>>92630409>where there's probably only 2-10 models on the table for most gamesI don't mean to sound rude or harsh but did you look into this game at all before buying the box? Like have you seen the mapsheets this game is played on? If the mechs were bigger than the mapsheets would have to be bigger. Like >>92630411 and >>92630412 said, you can always try and get bigger models printed
>>92630409For AS I'm sure the scale seems unusual, but for the practical purposes of playing on a hex grid I promise you the scale is actually really nice. When your perspective gets acclimated to it and you see things like buildings and vehicles at scale I think you'll come to like it better.
Quick question to tourneyfags: do organizers allow swapping out your ammo and missiles for special ones or are you shit out of luck and it's all about MLs?
>>92630459They historically do that, but remember it alters the BV so you have to take that into account if you're loading tandems in your old COM-2D for a Civil War game or whatnot.
>>92630466But special munitions don't have a special BV cost? They just change how many shots you carry per ton, usually half of how much you get with regular ammo.
>>92630392>Company that made DnD minis made their giant robot game in roughly the same mini size for their spincasters.You don't say...
>>92630475>But special munitions don't have a special BV cost?Just checked megamek and you're right. Fuck, I swore it used to be an adjustment. Might be a house rule from my old group.
>>92630214I'd look at Hussars as well. They're fast-as-fuck and have long enough ranged weaponry to be able to fuck with people from a relatively safe distance and kite them for eternity.Also, like >>92630277 and >>92630231said, Trinity Worlds. But also: there's a lot of space in the periphery. A few world that aren't important enough on their own to be mapped by ComStar for the Great Houses isn't an unusual thing.
>>92626762I mostly want them back because of weebshit too but if the wobbies couldn't get it done I don't think we'll ever see 'em again
>>92621676 Clan Wolf is probably the most "plot armored" faction in the game. And they're not well liked for that reason, especially in Ilclan era. They tend to coast on people liking their Refusal War version, even tho the current Clan Wolf is basicaly wearing the name like a flesh suit. Dragoons and WiE have both taken their lumps in the lore, meanwhile every time something happens to Wolf it's either all according to keikaku, or their adversaries become painfully retarded or out of character so Wolf can win.
>>92630392>Mindless CONSOOMer gets surprised product he bought isn't what he imaginedI've got this pig I'd like to sell you... I've just got it covered in a blanket so nobody else can see how great a pig it is.
new thread>>92630973
