Welcome to Open OSR. This is a seperate thread is for open discussions of OSR, OSR-adjacent and retro games. You can talk about all OSR (Pre Wotc D&D, & retroclones) & OSR-adjacent (Mork Borg, Shadowcity etc) games without distinction here.There is a general for those who only want to talk about "first decade" D&D. If that is your preference, you can find that here >>98735990 As always, report and ignore any trollingPrevious thread: >>98747984Thread Question:How many players usually die per session at your table? How lethal do you make your games?
Don't forget to use smart filters. Even just two simple ones hid more than 80% of the troll posts in the last thread.
>>98776634>How many players usually die per session at your table?I get maybe two deaths a year, and I run games pretty regularly.It used to happen a lot more often, but I've grown soft ever since my grandchildren started playing.
>>98776634I've found that one of the best rememdies for problems at the table or such is best handeled with a succinct social contract.It helps to constrain many issues before they arise.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i3sV-j0OEM
>>98776634What's the optimal page count for a game?B/X is only about 70 pages, AD&D1e is about 300, and then there's stuff like the Black Hack which is only 20 pages.
>>98776722OSRIC 1.0 compressed 1e to just around sixty pages. That's stripped down without any flavor, just rules. 2.0 expanded to 400 pages, but I don't think that was all that neccesary. I think somewhere between there is good.
>>98776634>How many players usually die per session at your table? How lethal do you make your games?I don't think I've seen a PC die.A few followers though. They're like canaries. They signal when things are getting too dangerous.
I haven't had a player die since the mid 2010s, the resulting ambulance call, police investigation and court cases really made it not worth it.Characters on the other hand.I play ACKS so a fair few at lower levels, but they get funnelled at higher levels.
>>98776643>these simple filters hide 80% or more of posts ITTkek
>>98774876>overwhelming number of options in the JJ. My steak is too butteryYeah, I wish ACKS proficiencies and custom powers were at least organised by type (combat, magic, and so on) rather than just brutally alphabetically. It makes for a bit of a daunting read.
>>98777362There was no real conversation on anything last thread after you remove ACKS lol
>>98776634>How many players usually die per session at your table? I have made it a rule not to kill players, let alone doing it on a per-session basis.>How lethal do you make your games?Since I don't run railroading theatre kid dogshit but real OSR (that is, first decade D&D played the Gygaxian way, not hickmanntardery like "AD&D" 2e), I'm not the one who makes games lethal, players are, through their choices.
>>98777072You've been playing ACKS since the mid 2010s? That's a lot of ACKS!
>>98777690>I have made it a rule not to kill playersLet's be real, you didn't make that rule, you just complied with the rules of the government like a coward
>>98777678Out of pure interest someone should screencap the last thread using those filters, just to show how absolutely cucked Fish is at this point.
>>98777895Nah, it's not reason that he's after, but attention. Just let him brew in his desperation without giving him any heed.
>>98777709More than that, I'm afraid I might get banned on reddit and RPGnet. Nice quads by the way.
>>98776643Add "gygaxian"
>Having failed to tout his purity spiral, appealing to the mods to ban topics or shitposting discussions to death; Fishfag is now reduced to filtering anything he doesn't like so he can pretend it doesn't exist and that he 'won'He truly has the soul of a reddit mod.Or rather, whatever reddit mods have in the place of a soul.
>>98778052My only problem with fishfag filtering ACKS is that he doesn't.
>>98776634>Shadowcity>Guy makes an RPG>Happens to share the name with a Girls-who-Fuck-Monsters book seriesThis probably happens pretty often.
Having looked over the Monstrous Manual for 2nd edition and trying my hand at creating an encounter table and stocking a dungeon, I have reached a conclusion.Wizards of the Coast does it better than TSR.Not in terms of monster ecology, society, combat tactics, and so on. No. The Monstrous Manual is fantastic as a sort of compendium of information about monsters.But Wizards of the Coast has been consistently better at giving me stats when I need a monster to be able to do something *right now*, and don't want to rely on DM fiat or have to consult other books.Firstly: Saving throws right in the statblock, rather than needing to consult a separate table in a separate book.Secondly: Pregenerated average hit points.But thirdly and most importantly: ability scores and skill proficiencies.OSR is built around the idea that not every encounter is going to be a combat encounter, fine, I 100% encourage that. But that opens you wide up to having to answer questions and do things you never anticipated. And it is just so damn useful to have things like Constitution, Wisdom, ranks in Insight, and so on to help when that happens, rather than needing to make shit up on the spot.
>>98777694I mean the game in which a player died was Traveller, but sure.
>>98778297>Firstly: Saving throws right in the statblock, rather than needing to consult a separate table in a separate book.Fair, but saving throws function a lot different than they do in WotC editions, where they're effectively three extra defenses. They should be coming up more rarely, and not ten times each battle. >Secondly: Pregenerated average hit points.If you know that a d8 averages out to 4.5, you've got most of your averages right there. Having someone else do the math for you is slightly more convenient, but 5-9-14-18-23-27-32-36 (or just add 5 and then 4 etc.) is about all that you really need to remember.>And it is just so damn useful to have things like Constitution, Wisdom, ranks in Insight, and so on to help when that happens, rather than needing to make shit up on the spot.Intelligence (and occasionally Morale) should cover most of what a DM needs, though the creature's entry is likely going to explain things in a much more nuanced way than just providing their flat stats. This does come at the cost of having to read paragraphs instead of having a quick reference, but I think one of the strengths of OSR games is that the games don't try to treat monsters as just a sack of stats, to help players also not think that way. I would say generally statblocks improved over time, but I wouldn't say they've done so unilaterally. One HUGE cost is just how overly complex later edition statblocks got. In some extreme examples, some statblocks couldn't even fit on one page.
>>98778297>I've been reading 2e>and I decided that what I really like is 3elmaoboth of those games are off-topic ITT though so maybe take your blog post to /3eg/?
>>98778297>Having looked over the Monstrous Manual for 2nd edition and trying my hand at creating an encounter table and stocking a dungeon, I have reached a conclusion.>Wizards of the Coast does it better than TSR.2e is utter dogshit. It's unfair to compare the best of WotC with the worst of TSR.Also it's an odd point to place the line at. The distinction that matters is between first decade D&D on the one hand and 2e/WotC on the other.
>>98778493>I've been reading 2e>and I decided that what I really like is 3eI mean, if the choice is between those two I can't blame him for preferring 3e to the dogshit edition.He should try to read real D&D though. And until he does, yeah, this discussion belongs on /3eg/.
>>98778297>Wizards of the Coast does it better than TSR.It's a mixed bag. What I would really like is for monsters to have two blocks, with combat data in one and non-combat data in the other.
>>98778493>>98778546>>98778549Please call everyone F*shfag when you're spamming/trolling/samefagging.
>>98776634>How many players usually die per session at your table?My lawyer has instructed to me not to answer.
>>98778493So first off, 2e is not off-topic according to the OP, since 2e is in fact "Pre Wotc D&D".Second, this has actually led to me sitting down and deciding I'm going to just make the AD&D 3rd Edition that TSR might have made if it could've benefitted from having learned all the lessons of the past 50-odd years. I'm pulling in material from 1st through 5th editions.Not to kickstart or something, just for my own table. And yes, I know about the "Without Number" series of games, but they don't quite fit what I'm looking for.
>>98778546>2e is utter dogshit. It's unfair to compare the best of WotC with the worst of TSR.I mean, as I understand it, monsters didn't have the things I mentioned in 1e either, so the complaint stands even if I compare to the Red Box or whatever your gold standard is.2e's High-Level Campaigns splat toyed with the idea of giving monsters a proper stat line, but the idea that monsters should have Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma just like players was a 3e innovation as far as I'm aware (although plenty of non-D&D games, like Vampire, had already been doing it for some time in their own systems).
>>98778567That guy's a weird troll. He's going to keep malding in this thread for dozens of posts because of his severe autism. You never have to reply to him, and probably shouldn't.>I'm going to just make the AD&D 3rd Edition that TSR might have made if it could've benefitted from having learned all the lessons of the past 50-odd yearsIt's funny, because Trent Foster described the K&KA's purpose as developing the hypothetical "What if Gygax was the one who made the next version of 1e," which becomes even funnier when you see the Dangerous Journeys game Gygax made after leaving TSR and how Gygax had by then embraced a completely different gaming philosophy than the one he had started 1e with.I think these sort of thought experiments are interesting, but "Old game, just improved" is always the more practical approach.
>>98778444>but 5-9-14-18-23-27-32-36 (or just add 5 and then 4 etc.) is about all that you really need to remember.I am reminded of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.Indy: "Well don't you *remember?*"Dad: "I wrote it down in my diary so I wouldn't *have* to remember."I'm not even saying it's hard to remember, just that a lot of little "it's not that hard but someone did it for you anyway" adds up over time. Like, I was surprised at the amount of work I needed to do just to make a readable Adult Red Dragon statblock, flipping between multiple pages of the Monstrous Manual for attacks, speed, size, saves, spells known, and so on, then going to a different book for saving throws.3e has a similar problem, but at least they didn't ask me to memorize my 6.5 times tables. And 5e's decision to just print wholly independent stat blocks rather than a table, was a good one.
>>98778567First, according to the OP this is an OSR thread, so yes, 2e is off topic as it's not an OSR game. If the subject was "OSR thread" but the OP text said "OSR is all games before 2000" that would also be a case of the OP text just being bizarre and inaccurate, so you can safely disregard that.Secondly, >I'm going to just make the AD&D 3rd Edition that TSR might have madehas already been done.
>>98778607>has already been done.Yes, but not to my personal satisfaction. Come on, we all make a heartbreaker sooner or later. At least I'm not claiming it'll be the next big thing.
>>98778596>I'm not even saying it's hard to remember, just that a lot of little "it's not that hard but someone did it for you anyway" adds up over time.Yeah, I feel that.Old dice notation is a particularly annoyance.3-12? Is that 1d10+2 or 3d4?
>>98778615Don't feed that troll.
>>98778588>his severe autism.I think he's just pure trolling. No other reason to go into a thread that uses a defintion you disagree with just to try and argue about it.> Gygax had by then embraced a completely different gaming philosophy than the one he had started 1e with.1e is such a weird outlier. Gygax did a whole lot of trying to circle back to OD&D with his later games and ended up just running OD&D at cons in his last years.
>>98778639I think that's more to do with no wanting Gygax to run DJ/LA/C&C.It's one thing to say "I played D&D with Gary Gygax!" and another to say "I played... danger journeys... with Gary Gygax...."
>>98778639>trolling trolling trolling shut the fuck up with your "round earth"!!!>we just use a different definition of the earth where it's flat!!!!!!>roundoids go home reeeeee
>>98778567>I'm going to just make the AD&D 3rd Edition that TSR might have made It's called Castles & Crusades, Troll Lord Games beat you to it.
>>98778862C&C wasn't "What if TSR made 3e" but more "What if 3e was repurposed to try and play TSR adventures." Almost the inverse in methodology, though I guess you'd end with some sorta hybrid either way.
>>98778567You're confused.The OP says OSR, and 2e is not OSR.So it's off topic
>>98778572>the idea that monsters should have Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and CharismaIs retarded
>>98778588>because of his severe autismlmao fishfag with the no u comeback again
>>98778862>Castles & Crusadesugh
>>98778616>3-12? Is that 1d10+2 or 3d4?>same notation>even the same average result>completely different distributionThe question thus becomes "Which is superior"?
>>98778918>I'm more than one personYou're not even one person, fishfag, since you're a subhuman
>>98778918just add "2e is not OSR" to the filter
>He's adding more filtersJust add ' ' to your filter list and have done with it why don't you?
>>98778023>>98778947Great suggestions.
>>98778297ACKS II solved the problem. It has better, more complete stat blocks than *any* D&D edition.
>>98778947>>98778989>I have no arguments, so I'll just stick my head in the sandI accept your concession.
>>98778999>But it has only "F3" in the saving throw.
>>98778999>>98779046That's actually a valid criticism, Macris should have used the OSE SRD format here, there's even space for that.So in this case>Save P12 D13 B14 I15 S16 (3)So agree it could be improved further, but it's still the best stat block ever conceived.
>>98778999>Story in the bottom left is of a guy fucking a ghoul.I guess you could say he had ghoul fever.
>>98778965Let the man cook. It's only going to get funnier and funnier as he filters literally every post including his own.
>>98779070lmao I had missed thatbased mockery of Islam is based
>>98779073Again, the problem is that he doesn't actually apply the filters he claims he does, given he keeps malding non-stop.The thread would be great if he did, though.
>>98779046Wait, is that game making you have to go and constantly look things up on a table in a completely different part of the book?I wonder if that's not one of the most common complaints about an objectively terrible game system made by people who clearly don't actually play games.
>You have to go look up the table >:(3+ years on and he's still salty about charts.Meanwhile everyone else has printed off a copy of the saves as a quick ref and moved on with their lives.
>>98779093Yeah, it's almost universal in OSR systems (first decade, Gygaxian D&D).I expected better of Macris. If I were on Discord I'd tell him. Fishfag, since you're constantly lurking and malding in the ACKS discord, would you mind telling him yourself?
>>98778989>"macris">"Foegyg"There's probably a few more, but those first two are already doing most of the legwork.
>>98779087>he keeps malding non-stopWell, I mean, this IS /maldgen/. Realistically, I don't know what you were expecting.
>>987785965e has really benefited from being popular in an era with significantly more modern technology. When I used to run it, prepping a dungeon using online tools took minutes.Sites like Donjon do help out when I'm prepping AD&D stuff, but it's still a process.
>>98779156>maldgenPlease, someone snipe the next one and call it that./saltminenon/ is also acceptable
>>98779159>5elmao very osr thanks for the on-topic discussion
>>98779046>>98779056I mean I get the criticism but 'saves as a third level fighter' is a very common way of doing things for gygaxian dnd and BECMI which is what ACKS is trying to emulate.
>>98779211No reason not to make improvements.
>>98779211If you're making big changes throughout the system, it's kind of telling if the sacred cows you decide to keep are the ones that obviously slow the game down and have had a solution figured out decades ago, and the changes you introduce also further slow that game down.You can't use the "it's traditional" cope if you're ruining the game everywhere else.
>>98779244To be fair, taking a well-documented, significantly-playtested, decades-old system and somehow succeeding in making it worse in every aspect takes an impressive level of fuck-uppery.It's absolutely no wonder that the kind of cringefags that make up its entire remaining "community" are universally braindead fags who think volume can make up for them having not even basic intelligence.They're like the goblins of OSR. Little troll guys who gather together and stink a place up. The whole reason they got banned from so many places.
>>98778657Gygax is on record for saying OD&D was his favorite to run.
>>98779046It has all the problems the first guy listed. It didn't solve anything.
>>98779306>totally filtering ACKS>also malding over it every time it's mentioned>t. fishfag
>>98778925I know, the name itself is extremely problematic for the modern, cosmopolitan, person of color, leftist.
>>98779468>But it wasn't banned on rpgnet and plebbit.>Proving Macris is worse than Hitler.
>>98779306ACKS lives more rent free in this scaly abhuman's head than anything has ever done in anyone's head before, holy shit. Macris fully colonized this nibba's cognition to the point that even when he tries to filter it out he can't stop seething about it non-stop, hell of a feat. Add it to the list of Macris' achievements I guess.
>>98778557Goblins still should have that light sensitivity penalty.
>>98779624To steal from another thread >>98714133 it really is remarkable how a simple story of fishing can break a mans spirit so completely.
>>98779624quick, add "subhuman" and "abhuman" to your filters that you're totally using, fishfag
>>98778297Trying to use 2nd ed to generate encounters, especially dungeon encounters, is an exercise in frustration. No shit you'd reach such a conclusion.>Okay guys, time to roll the one of maybe two random dungeon encounters you're likely to get for the entire dungeon as you race through here at 10x the exploration speed of 1st ed, combined with a 2/3rds decrease in encounter frequency.>Shit, there's no tables in the 2nd ed DMG to roll any encounters on at all.>Well, I'll just grab the Monstrous binder. It had encounter tables.>Pic related.>The fuck am I supposed to do with that? Okay, guys, you encounter "Skeleton". How many skeletons? How the fuck should I know? Maybe the book explains somewhere else?>"NO. APPEARING indicates an average encounter size for a wilderness encounter. The DM should alter this to fit the circumstances as the need arises. **This should not be used for dungeon encounters.**">I love this edition, which is literally the same as 1st edition, as its defenders love to chant.
>>98779764>The fuck am I supposed to do with that?Not playing the worse D&D-branded edition ever published would be a step in the right direction, Anon. Ditch that crap and play the real AD&D.
>>98779764>>98779814(The other Anon, of course.)
>>98779764Kek, it really is such absolute shit. Incredible that anybody could ever have claimed that 2e was old-school.
>>98776634Congrats on excising the butthurt from your OP. Good on you, carry on>>98779764Holy fuck that's terrible, lol.Anyway, I'm out, have fun, Open OSR people
>>98778297>Wizards of the Coast does it better than TSR.Wizards do a lot of things better than TSR. That might sound almost like blasphemy in a thread dedicated to pre-WotC games, but you gotta give credit where it's due. But, a good amount of the progress wasn't exactly internal. A lot of the best ideas that found there way into 3e/4e/5e originated in other games and with the benefit of decades of hindsight, advances in technology, higher player count, and much more money to throw at the game.If you dropped 5e back in 1974 (with a few cultural changes to better fit the time period), no one would have looked twice at OD&D. People would probably have gone insane and might have even started worshiping 5e. That's kind of why the OSR is important, because there's a lot of good stuff that's easy to be overshadowed by "modern" games.Also, TSR beats WotC in regards to quality merch.
>>98780331OSR being pre-WOTC doesn't mean it has to be anti-WOTC.
>>98780391OSR isn't pre-WotC D&D, though. It doesn't make any sense, given that "AD&D" 2e is closer to 3e than it is to the real AD&D.
>>98780391I think it needed to be a little, at least back in the days when the main goal of OSR was to try and get WotC to reprint the pre-3e stuff or circumvent WotC's lockdown on it. It was at minimal critical of WotC's policies, and most of the early OSR discussion on Dragonsfoot had people terrified of WotC's lawyers and trying to make sure they wouldn't get sued or shut down.That's water under the bridge at this point though. WotC never did anything to stop the OSR, and eventually did make all the pre-3e stuff available, either as PDF or POD. Most of the whole system/edition warring business has really gotten tiresome over the decades and the hobby as a whole has largely grown past it and matured. Kind of like how the Sega vs. Nintendo or Sony vs. Nintendo business seems pretty childish and very corporate-induced in retrospect.You kind of have to be a particular kind of loser to get hung up on that stuff. You can enjoy a system without killing yourself over people playing other games.
>>98776667You're not raising them right.
>>98780451>without killing yourself over people playing other games.Funny you should say that. The only one who has problems with people playing other games here is a certain piscine subhuman, who has a literal autistic meltdown every single time the best RPG since 1981 is mentioned.
>>98780451>back in the days when the main goal of OSR was to try and get WotC to reprint the pre-3e stufflmao this never happened, you deranged schizowhen are you going to stop pushing this insane revisionist history?
>>98780451>I think it needed to be a little, at least back in the days when the main goal of OSR was to try and get WotC to reprint the pre-3e stuff or circumvent WotC's lockdown on it. It was at minimal critical of WotC's policies, and most of the early OSR discussion on Dragonsfoot had people terrified of WotC's lawyers and trying to make sure they wouldn't get sued or shut down.According to Trent Foster, he was using the phrase OSR to refer to not just WotC and D&D, but all pre-2000 games and to try to get other publishers to renew their interest in older games/editions.
>>98780837The "main" goal was still D&D though, on account of it being by far the most popular. Also, as a side note, Trent Foster didn't actually coin the phrase "old school revival". Someone who went digging around in Dragonsfoot for the first usage and told him he had coined it in 2004, but the concept of a "revival" was in pretty common usage around then and he was even beaten to the punch by someone saying "old skool AD&D revival" in 2003. The guy talking about that revival in a thread about Trokia (a retroclone of Advanced Fighting Fantasy, rather than D&D) is interesting though, because it does lend itself to what Foster was saying about the Old School Revival originally being about generating interest in 20th century games in general.
>>98780837According to the Quick Primer for Old School Gaming, it was mostly a response to 3e.
>>98780331>exciting 3D dragon headWhoa momma.
>>98780837>>98780913>>98781002>literally all non-ACKS posting ITT is just this one kanigher spouting the makebelieve backstory to his fake OSR definition>but it's not a thread for malding about /osrg/, I swear!!!
>>98776643The amount that this has improved these threads is amazing.
>>98779159I'm betting 95% of AD&D could be run by a computer.Baldur's Gate isn't even that far off.
>>98781321Not without general AI
>>98781337That's needed for that final 5%.If the DM computer specifically limited the game to be as anti-fluff/pro-crunch it could be, it could get pretty far.
>>98781405Dude, about 80% of AD&D involves creativity and interpretation.
>>98781504People have been trying to capture D&D in a computer since at least 1976.Creativity and interpretation have always been a big part of those games too.
>>98781648>People have been trying to capture D&D in a computer since at least 1976.And doing a shit job at it. And Zork isn't a good example, it wasn't intended to recreate D&D
>>98781669Zork (1977) was based on Colossal Cave Adventure which came out in 1976, which drew inspiration from D&D. >And doing a shit job at it.True, but Zork's total file size was not far from that .jpg I posted and could run on a computer with lower specs than a child's musical toothbrush. Even just a few years later there was Wizardry in 1981, which was only about twice the size but a significantly better experience.Given the time and resources and the general better understanding of all the components involved, an automated AD&D clone could probably go much further than people even thought it could just five years ago.
>>98781739Go ask an AI to DM for you, you'll see how very far we still have to go.
>>98781817Chat AIs have issues with persistence and are not really designed to be DMs, but they can do a surprisingly good job at small aspects of it.A more dedicated program though?
>>98781817Don't forget how fast AI video advanced.Long way to go, but this shit has got more money being thrown at it than all the money ever spent on NASA projects combined.
Someone NooSaaR-Pill me on Into the Odd
>>98781863>>98781886Okay, fine. You guys go sit on your hands and wait for future AI to run games for you, meanwhile I'm gonna play actual games now with actual human beings like I've been doing. It's seriously not hard to do.
>>98781944Very Lite-game. Wandering monsters and dungeon exploration, but it is really stripped down mechanically while trying to build up its flavor which is mostly just a chaotic dreamy mush.I think I like Mythic Bastionland better. They're similar, but MB feels more focused thanks to its Knight theme.
>>98781944It's not very D&D-like in terms of mechanics. Kind of like a ground-up approach towards making something between OD&D and Stalker.
>>98781948To be fair, he's probably a 2etard; it'll be impossible for him to find other human beings who want to endure his dogshit fave. AI is really his only option.
>>98782009>I think I like Mythic Bastionland better.They all feel pretentious.
>>98781739>Zork (1977) was basedThat it is.https://www.ifiction.org/games/playz.php?cat=&game=3&mode=html
>>98780837>GURPS is OSRLMAO kill yourself fishfag
>>98781002According to Melan, the Simulacron guy, the Pope of OSRG, and Old School Swiss Pedobear, 2e was never OSR and you're a filthy subhuman, fishfag.
>>98781739>>98781817>>98781863>>98781886>>98782322>Open OSR, talk about OSR games>Any%>Difficulty: Impossible.
>>98781648I think trying to capture D&D truly in computer form is impossible, even with LLM. Because ultimately A computer will always have limits, and the human imagination does not.>>98781002Yes, the OSR was created largely as a response to the Silver Age of D&D (3.X) and the whole new generation/new breed of dnd players that appeared with entirely different mindsets and goals.>>98780071Cease faggotry, the OP was changed only because it wouldn't stay up otherwise and i'd happily change it back in a heartbeat.
>>98782954You're hallucinating: The mindsets and goals of 2e and 3e are identical, though.Not that you'd know the difference, since you aren't even able to create a B/X character sheet that isn't chock full of errors.
>>98782954I think it's pretty funny that the troll spent dozens of thread complaining about the OP as triggering him somehow by correctly identifying the /osrg/ as hijacked and corrupted, and that was his reason for trolling these threads, but when the OP is now about as neutral as can be he might actually be trolling harder. His behavior in general is basically just an endless display that he has doomed himself to powerlessly trolling forever.
>>98783406>correctly identifying the /osrg/ as hijacked and corruptedGo tell the mods, quick!
>>98782954>the OP was changed only because it wouldn't stay up otherwise and i'd happily change it back in a heartbeatYou should try going to IRC and telling the mods all about this!
>>98782009I like how when you roll the 1d6 for a wandering monster, on a 1 it's the monster, but on a 2 you instead get some sign that there's a monster nearby, like hearing it in the distance or finding some sort of tracks or markings.It's a neat little idea that fits in a lot of games.
>>98781944First edition is quite good, started in /osrg/ amusingly enough. The reprint is not the worst of the >make money reprinting a thing again and the extra material is actually useful. Its the only good ultralight. Character generation is very fast but is still a bit too light on items if you want players to think about inventory. Combat is fast but you'll have to decide if tpks all the time is something you want to deal with for rolling under str or passing out when damaged seeing as everyone starts with D6 HP and 3d6 Str and is taking damage automatically every round unless it doesn't makes sense. You also have to have a good functional understanding of dynamic combat as war rather than arena sport otherwise again, damage every round gets fucked up fast. Armour is very powerful, especially AC2. Rolling under stats as saves is alright but the follow up advice from blogs and the worse but nicer books of >don't use roll under stat for skills you idiots is required. The Mythic followups are trash entirely based on vibes and where a lot of the indie storygaming interest in creative story exercises and genre fiction replaced the idea of being able to use osr material easily to explore dungeons.
>>98783625>damage every round gets fucked up fast.That really helps make it feels so narrative-focused. Something about auto-hits just makes everything feel... inevitable.>The Mythic followups are trash entirely based on vibesThey feel more like what the designer was going for. ItO sometimes feels like a half-step that might as well have committed itself to just being... vibey.
>>98778929By convention, if it's given as XdY it should be considered X number of dice of Y/X size if that works out. Sometimes you'll see something like 2-14 but unless the book told you to go out and buy d7s they probably meant 1d8+1d6, but that's kind of sloppy on their end.Personally, I'd much rather have XdY and let me figure out the range if I need to rather than X-Y and having to run a division to get the dice size even if I know how.
>>98780331The 5e core (d20(a/d) +/-mods vs Target) is phenomenally good.It's all the crap they buried it under that's the problem.
>>98782738Of course he can't do it, he doesn't even know what it is!
>>98783625>First edition is quite good, started in /osrg/ amusingly enough.That's funny but also sad.
>>98783406>correctly identifying the /osrg/ as hijacked and corruptedlmao, squeal harder, piggie
>>98783836>The 5e core (d20(a/d) +/-mods vs Target) is phenomenally good.The basic idea of having a core resolution mechanic is pretty great, though it's also one of the biggest differences between old school and modern games. I think relying on a mechanic too much brings the players too far away from thinking within the game world.There should be a happy midpoint, but I think that midpoint can be reached in old school games too.
>>98783625>ItO first edition started in /osrg/produce your proof
>>98785748Should be able to go find it in the archives. There's another pdf that has a lot of kludgy rules for making guns, it was neat to see him shift to lighter and lighter builds over time then go too far with all the shit over the last 5+ years. >>98783518This was from necropraxis, who also was from /osrg/. Everyone forgets that the overloaded encounter table and spore should also mean the next encounter is automatically whatever the spoor roll was. Don't tell your players, let them figure it out. >>98783664... you....'re.... du...m...b
>>98785748The anon is probably full of shit, but this appears to be the first mention of the game in /osrg/, after it was available as a PDF:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/38800384/#q38849110
>>98786084>post literal evidence >must be full of shit lol here you go! Even has the automatically deal melee damage instead of rolling to attack. https://files.catbox.moe/ecftlg.pdfYou can really tell he came in from the pbta/forge crowd with ACTIVATION of KEYWORD to GAMEDO.
what changed between hackmaster 4e and 5e? Is it any good?
>>98786190You need to establish that the evidence came from the crime scene.
>>98786374Nah, I was there so I already know. If you're worried about it you need to go look.
>>98786238Hackmaster was never that good, it just had a brief window where it was one of the only games of its vague type in print.HM5e is an attempt to try to be a serious game that uses non-D&D mechanics and is about as much fun as the KotDT comic was, which is to say it's confusing how anyone was supposed to like it in the first place.
Is this the anti thread?
>>98786756It's all in the OP. It's the thread that follows the more common definition of OSR (Pre Wotc D&D & retroclones), alongside OSR-adjacent games. It's meant to be more open and trying to get away from the system-warring and other weird business that happens in the other thread. If you just want to argue about what the OSR means, you can go to the other thread.
What is the best one shot prompt to have GPT generate a dungeon level?
>>98786945You're better off using donjon.https://donjon.bin.sh/adnd/dungeon/
>>98786945"Make me a seven room dungeon level, and fill it with monster women in various stages of undressing themselves."
>>98786945I just tried:>Give me a quick dungeon floor, written in a classic adventure style, which will really test how clever the players are while being entertaining and enjoyable. Include a potential love interest and an exciting and unique treasure.And it produced probably the worst dungeon floor I've ever encountered. The intro didn't start out too badly, up until I thought about it for more than ten seconds and realized it was nonsensical.The first room is a puzzle room with a puzzle so dumb that it's hard to even qualify it as a puzzle. It's very likely the players would even solve it by accident.
>>98787180I added the bit about a potential love interest just to see what it would generate, and it produced Mara, an incomprehensible young woman who->makes an excellent potential love interest because she is genuinely useful: she'll argue with the party, save them from a trap, and occasionally make terrible decisions of her own.
>>98787206The "exciting and unique treasure" fundamentally breaks the laws of logic alongside any economy it happens to be placed into. I'm actually surprised by how bad it is. I guess it might be able to handle stocking a dungeon with random monsters and traps, but asking it for puzzles or for something even mildly clever will lead to just pure nonsense.
>>98785992>>98786190>>98786374>completely unsubstantiated claims>nooooo it's evidence!!!!I guess this is about what I should expect from the resident genius of /maldgen/ tb h
>>98787275whoops, misclick there on the last post, meant to link >>98786471
>>98786756Yes, it is. As you can see, >>98786807 is hard at work pushing his revisionist horseshit ITT and trying to get people to spam up /osrg/
>>98787275>>98787279>so mad you can't even a post lol
>>98787180>knocking on the door is particularly cleverOh, ChatGPT, sometimes you're so dumb it's cute.
1/3
>>987873732/3
>>987873783/2
>>987873843/3*
You all isekai'ed and end up in the Inn of the Welcome Wench, what do you do?
>>98787388
>>98787388Use every isekai trick I know.Start the industrial revolution, advance both micro- and macro-economics, bed every fair maiden, and introduce Rock and Roll.
>>98787373>He's got a lot to kick about!What the fuck does that even mean.
>>98786807I'm sorry, but you're wrong, 2e isn't OSR.
>>98779764>How the fuck should I know? Maybe the book explains somewhere else?3d10 for humans, 2d10 for Animals, 1d6 for Monsters . It's in the Manual.
>>98787702See. Well it's actually 1-6 for monsters, but deciding that via rolling a d6 seems pretty reasonable.
>>98787509I don't know. I just like the fact someone back in '81 tried to fix Monks. Its not the best fix, but its probably better than any other OSR era Monk.
>>98787742Yes, the 1st edition monk was pretty terrible. I think I had a player try and play one once, just once.
>>98787702>>98787713No.The Manual actually makes the problem worse: not only does it still have the pictured note, which originally appeared in the Compendiums, it still lacks the dungeon encounter number information cut from the 2nd ed DMG and not included in the Monstrous Compendiums. On top of this, it removes the encounter tables altogether, leaving only the summoning tables. So, you don't even have the incomplete Compendium dungeon tables any longer. The pretty pictures conceal the fact that when it comes to actually playing the game, it's a worse product than the already insufficient binder sheets. Of course, 2nd ed players were generally doing new-school storytelling with fixed encounters rather than bothering with random ones, which might derail the precious plot, so no one left playing by then noticed the lack.2nd ed went all of its sad life without having a single formal means of rolling a random dungeon encounter from start to finish, showing just how old-school it really was (not in the least).
>>98787702I don't think you're talking to a sane person who knows anything at all. I think he's got an preset idea and will perform mental gymnastics in order to reach it.
>>98787909Good job responding to the guy who was told that the numbers were specifically noted as not applying to dungeon encounters and then responded by ... posting the same numbers for his answer. Yes, the guy who actually read the books is the real problem.What a thread full of real game players.
>>98787993Any time you actually want to post the very definitely real procedure that totally exists instead of flailing about ineffectually in a sad attempt to distract from the failures of the game you don't even play, feel free. In the land of objective reality, you can't roll up a random dungeon encounter in 2nd ed by the rules, as demonstrated by the screenshots provided. Unlike the actually old-school 1st edition.Post evidence to the contrary or concede the point, fishfag.
>>98787378>Moral: you can't karate-chop an iron golemIs there anything either monk could do against one?
>>98787885>The pretty picturesI for one can't still wrap my head around the idea that anybody likes the 2e monster art.You're roughly about everything else, of course.
>>98787909>I don't think you're talking to a sane person who knows anything at all.Fishfag's understanding of 2e matches his understanding of B/X, see >>98783458His obsession with games he literally knows nothing about is psychopathologically fascinating.
>>98787491>Start the industrial revolutionyou fool, there was no carboniferous in dnd so no hydrocarbons to burn.
>>98787702>>98787713Absolutely nipplebrained retard. Anon *already pointed out* that in 2e "No. Appearing" is explicitly not to be used in the dungeon, you epsilon drone.
>>98788552You've gotten tangled up in the reply chain there, my man. Fishfag is the guy you're replying to.
>>98788540I'm pretty sure to a fairy tale huffing post-bowdlerization plotfag DiTerlizzi's art is great. It has a cozy noblebright feel which is obviously entirely wrong for sword & sorcery but ideal if you came to D&D via Brian Froud or Dragonlance (as indeed the majority of 2etards did). The other artist (I think there was only one? Very uniform art besides TD anyway) is indeed absolutely wretched and has no redeeming features; that subpar-1980s-comic art style is abominable.
>>98787238I mean, it needs to be slightly tweaked but I think the bones are solid."Ask to enter, but don't speak a word" and the solution is just to knock on the door hard enough to activate an internal mechanism sounds like an awesome puzzle and actually has a neat idea behind (a door that can be opened by anyone but only loudly would actually have sensible use instead of being nonsense or busy work and a door that opens by itself when you knock on it could be a very cool "haunted house" touch.As far as the treasure goes, I think it might be perfect: it's powerful, it's stupid, any actual attempt to use it would be ill--advised and *wildly* chaotic and once it's resurfaced dozens of factions would want to get their hands on it for wildly different reasons.Honestly, both of those are better suited to actual play at an actual table than a whole lot of commercial stuff I've read.
>>98788951>Fishfag is the guyfishfag is not a guy, it's a subhuman ichthyoid hybrid.
>>98788960>I'm pretty sure to a fairy tale huffing post-bowdlerization plotfag DiTerlizzi's art is great. It has a cozy noblebright feel which is obviously entirely wrong for sword & sorcery but ideal if you came to D&D via Brian Froud or Dragonlance (as indeed the majority of 2etards did).Thanks for putting words to my feelings, Anon.
>>98788868In theory you could do it with charcoal - the limitation in the real world is you'd run out of trees fairly quickly but with magic (plant growth and similar spells) you might be able to create a sustainable charcoal industry at scale.
>>98789063>As far as the treasure goes, I think it might be perfect: it's powerful, it's stupid, any actual attempt to use it would be ill--advised and *wildly* chaoticIt's hard for it to make any sense.You give someone the coin, and they believe they were given 10,000 coins... but how long could someone believe that? The innkeeper might have a wife, and when her husband tries to explain to her that the people who stayed over last night gave him 10k coins in payment, the first thing she'll want to see is the 10k coins that don't exist. Either he'd immediately realize he had been tricked, effectively making the coin the equivalent of a bad check and a way to get everyone in the land to want to murder you, or he'd steadfastly refuse to accept he doesn't actually have the 10k coins while his wife would be begging him to come to his senses and eventually locking him in an asylum.A coin that comes back after it's spent is a very old idea, but this business about it even being able to trick a dragon into exchanging its entire hoard for it is so hard to wrap my head around how it could possibly work. Would the dragon just never realize he no longer has a hoard? Would he refuse to listen to anyone that explained that his hoard chamber was empty? Or would the dragon immediately realize what had happened and then you would have a very angry dragon as an enemy?
>>98789178No, he'd think that a group of adventurers gave him 10,000 coins and then someone stole it overnight, probably the adventurers. At first, that's going to sound like a bunch of adventurers just pulled a cruel prank (which will probably sour the town on adventurers in the future unless something is done, but a single incident will fade quickly.)But when it happens two or three times, people are going to start to notice and get pissed. Larger factions are going to get involved. Somewhere someone's making small marks on a map and seeing if they seem to be trending in any one direction.But yeah, if somebody pulled the stunt on a dragon? You'd have a dragon 100% convinced that the nearest town stole their hoard out from under them, which then equals ashes of an innocent town full of dead people and at least some of those factions are upgrading from "investigation" to "vengeance."This isn't a nice find for the players to use regularly, like a +1 shield, it's the MacGuffin opening to one of those "normal person ends up with roll of microfilm that could topple a whole government" or "bag of mob money causes chaos wherever it goes," something like Heat or No Country for Old Men.On something like this, don't think "Excalibur" think "being the master of the Elder Wand generally sucks."(An earlier, much angrier reply conflated this and another post together and responded to tone not present in the actual post being replied to. This anon regrets the error and formally disavows that post.)
>>98789103Well, the "guy". I was using it loosely, Anon.
>>98789288>At first, that's going to sound like a bunch of adventurers just pulled a cruel prankIt's going to sound like a crime, the kind of crime where word spreads quickly and all inns and businesses in the region rapidly hear about it.It's the kind of item players would use without really understanding (because it's fairly nonsensical), and the logical ramifications wouldn't be the start of some epic adventure but the players pursued by an angry mob or worse.The example where a king would be willing to sell someone his castle is where things get downright silly. The exchange of a deed over a castle would involve and impact hundreds of people and ordinarily the exchange of thousands or even millions of gold, and the amount of mental gymnastics the king would have to perform for such a long span of time in the face of hundreds of people questioning him would probably result in the enchantment failing or the king going completely insane.There's ways to make the item "work", but it definitely needs to be revised into a form that doesn't make it either completely useless (the enchantment breaks when an impossible paradox presents itself, ie. almost immediately) or perhaps one of the most evil items of all time (it rearranges a person's entire brain in order to make it possible to continue to believe that the transaction occurred and that all their friends and loved ones are lying and so on).
>>98788868It's a world with magic.Putting a fire elemental in a cage would solve most fuel issues.
IS AD&D 2e A DEAD EDITION?>ForumsThere's many forums dedicated mostly or exclusively to OD&D and/or AD&D 1e (Dragonsfoot, K&KA, odd74), but literally ZERO dedicated to AD&D 2e. AD&D 2e only gets some discussion because it's lumped together with AD&D 1e on some forums, and because Dragonsfoot created a separate subforum for it as containment.>Retroclones and derivative gamesFar too many extremely popular retroclones derivatives of B/X, OD&D, and AD&D to list them all. OSE, Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, Swords & Wizardry, LotFP, Dragonslayer....There's only one AD&2e retroclone, For Gold and Glory, and it is only a Gold Bestseller on DTRPG. That's fewer that 1,000 copies sold since 2015, less than 100 a year!>Dungeons and modulesThe situation here is even more grim. Tons of modules for B/X, OD&D, AD&D, and their retroclones: Khosura, Xyntillan, Barrowmaze, Archaia, Highfell, Dwarrowdeep, Arden Vul, Carcosa, Gunderholfen, Rappan Athuk, Stonehell, Ynn, Stygian Library, Dwimmermount, a dozen Necrotic Gnome ones, Illmire, Veins of the Earth, Anomalous Subsurface Environment...But there's practically NOTHING published for AD&D 2e or For Gold & Glory. >ConclusionAD&D 2e is a dead edition. Little to no discussions about it, only one very poorly selling retroclone, virtually no adventures and modules. This is a hard, undeniable fact.>But why?There is only one possible explanation: No reason to play AD&D 2e since 3e came out. OD&D, B/X, and AD&D all have enthusiastic fanbases because they enable a style of play that is impossible to do with later editions. AD&D 2e, on the other hand focuses on the exact same style as WotC editions story arc / story goals / railroading, but it is extremely poorly designed, so people who want to play that way have all switched to 3e, 5e, or PF.Added tags so the filtering trolls don't see this post: ACKS fishfag.
>>98787206>she's lying-but not maliciouslyThat latter part is a refreshing change of pace.
>>98789797If any of that is true, games like ACKS would be deader than dead, since they couldn't even get 2k backers. Don"t throw stones when your house is made of shit.You're also lying out your ass about several things, like the 2e subforum being a containment board when it was added at the same time as the OD&D board and has seen about the same amount of activity, and DF doesn't have or need containment boards of any kind.2e is also just as or even more popular than 1e on the AD&D subreddit, is discussed frequently on enworld/rpg.net/discord/roll20/etc., and even its individual settings maintain there own sizable fandoms.The reason 2e has so few retroclones is because it wasn't annout-of-print archaic mess like the previous editions that required heavy formatting and restructuring and even then still confuses people; it's written in clear language and was given a special edition reprinting and continues to sell well on DricethruRPG.I understand you're a retarded troll, but you've tried this before and you remain wrong on so many levels that by the time you justify why you think 2e is actually dead you'll only have confirmed ACKS is even deader.
>>98789935>falling for the most obvious troll bait>even when he pulled a "don't look at me" reverse psychology when all he wants is attentionWhy.Let's leave it at that.
>>98788130Evade/Run away.
>>98789935>replied within twenty minutes>totally filtering those words thoughLMAO you're full of shit
>>98790283It just hides the posts. You can unhide them at will, and hovering over them also reveals their contents.Anyone can see you continue to post, filtering just makes it much easier to ignore you.
>>98789935>B-but what about ACKS then?Nice deflection. You literally have no counterargument. You're only capable of throwing an autistic meltdown about ACKS, that wasn't even discussed but only tagged to keep trolls away.I accept your concession.
>>98790298>I totally filter posts>Also I read all of themlmao
>>98790298It also helps out because he does this gay thing where he always makes three posts instead of just one and samefags like a gay bitch.
>>98789941You just commented on TWO posts that say "ACKS". Weren't YOU filtering that word?
>>98789935>2e is also just as or even more popular than 1e on the AD&D subreddit>It has one third of the postsIt's totally more popular though.lmao your capacity to deny reality is extraordinaire, le fichefague
>>98789935>If any of that is true, games like ACKS would be deader than dead, since they couldn't even get 2k backers.For Gold & Glory has fewer than 1k copies sold on DTRPGLMAO if ACKS is dead then FG&G is deader than that, fishfag.
>>98790315>he does this gay thingRich, coming from a tourist from RPGnet
>>98790315It's funny how you can tell when he's furious.
>>98790365Again with the broken theory of mind I see
>>98787180Try Claude.
>>98787180Probably at least another decade before AI DMs are a serious consideration.
>>98790317You're not suggesting that the slope-browed sea dweller is *lying* like he does literally all the time, are you? Surely that kind of pathetic ploy must be beneath even the nonexistent dignity of the anadromous abhuman.
>>98789935>reddit>redditredditredditredditDo I even need to tell you where you ought to return to?Also, Anon didn't even mention ACKS except in his filtertripping at the end. Why are you arguing as though he's comparing ACKS to 2e?>>98790333ACKS II has also existed for considerably less time than FG&G. IIRC ACKS I sold over 5k units on DTRPG, a more directly comparable statistic than the backer numbers for the expanded edition.
>>98787180Better than the last dungeon my DM built and ran the group through. The whole last session was just a generic by-the-numbers adventure that couldn't possibly have been more boring. It felt like he had followed some youtube guide on a formula of how to make a dungeon.>>98787206That's at least interesting. Why is she lying? Why is she named after the Indian demon that is the Lord of Evil and Deceit?And is a giant penis in the SMT games?
>>98786238A lot. They're basically completely different games, mechanically and tonally.I don't think they're very good.
>>98793402Yeah, it doesn't make sense to play Hackmaster when there's ACKS.
>>98794365More like hACKSmaster, amirite?
>>987862384e is basically an amalgamation of Adnd 1e and 2e with a good dosage of homebrew on top. 5e is dnd coded but a very different system.Not compatible with the previous edition but very osr themed. It was really unpopular for it's smugness most of all and it's holier than thou attitude, where it reinforced the "one true way to play games", getting stuck up on 3d6 down the line and other such oldschoolisms while using a hodgepodge of different resolution mechanics for different things like skill checks.It feels like the marriage of Rolemaster or Harnmaster and Adnd.It theoretically solves most of the issues i have with dnd but the game is something of a hassle at the table, unless you are all familiar with it and the players are invested in a complicated system.It does have the best combat system of any dnd game i ve played though. Having it's own unique setting that feels like someone married Harnmaster to dnd and incompatible with most of the familiar dnd stuff in it's races and class combinations didn't help either.>>98794365I know this is trolling but they couldnt be more different games.ACKS tries to make a fresh B/X clone all about scaling into a wargame and address the author's problems with the system adding feats from 3e and changing cleave for example (to make it far worse imo), and going for overly elaborate and procedural details, with most of the focus going to running the world meanwhile Hackmaster is Adnd+ for people that saw Adnd and thought this didnt go far enough from the source and it's mostly player coded and it's all about a more realistic dnd in a more realistic early medieval setting.It also has one of the best monster manuals out there with monster ecologies, habits etc for every entry
>>98786238Both are great for swords & sorcery & pixie fairies.
>>98794483>It also has one of the best monster manuals out there with monster ecologies, habits etc for every entryI agree, ACKS has by far the best monster manual.
>>98794951at least you made me laugh so i give you that anon.I was obviously talking about Hacklopedia, the monster manual of Hackmaster 5e. Acks doesnt even have a monster manual anon, it's just a segment on the big core book. Have you even read the book you ve been touting? What it has is fairly barebones. It does it's job for a bx hack but its nothing to write home about.ACKS 2 does have one massively expanded but we are talking about the 1st edition all this time.
>>98781863Every LLM keeps making up bullshit infinitely unless restrained.First tell it to design (map out) a full location, several traps, loot chests and wandering monsters. (Of course you must not read this and spoil yourself.)Then start playing infinite Zork.
>>98795080>ACKS 2 does have one massively expanded but we are talking about the 1st edition all this time.Obviously I was talking about the current edition. It's the best one because of the information it contains, specifically the parts about magical components and ecology. And the reworked treasures are absolutely top-notch, they allow you to run three completely different campaign styles (classic, gritty, and heroic) using the same letter codes. Plus all the additional information about commercial value of monsters, battle ratings for mass combat, age, and so on. Nobody has ever managed to publish something so complete.
To the guy falseflagging:We get it. ACKS shills are dumb and obnoxious and talk like fags.You don't have to beat that dead horse.
>>98795278Totally filtering ACKS posts, eh, fishfag?
>>98795654>>98795654He's not fishfag. I'm fishfag. I don't filter posts and I'm actually okay with ACKS posting. ACKS is OSR after all.That's not to say I encourage ACKS posting, but I've become philosophical about it. Being OP is like being the DM. You can't control what posters post any more than you can control how players play. Or at least you shouldn't control how players play. That would be railroading.Anyway, just wanted you to know how I see it. Thanks for posting in the thread. It's always interesting to read what you wrote.
>>98797781>I'm Fishfag, a guy defined by his massive terrible ACKS melty>I'm actually okay with ACKS postingMy man.........
>>98797781>ACKS is OSR after all.It's not really. It's barely even a game, more of just a scam of trying to sell an incredibly mediocre heartbreaker under the OSR tag, despite it going against most of the pillars of the OSR, with it even deliberately going as far against "rulings over rules" as it possibly can.The manner in which its shills act has managed to get them cast out of just about every other place that OSR games are discussed, largely because the main reason they play it instead of countless superior games is because Macris spends most of his time on twitter marketing it as the chud answer to people who don't like how woke 5e is. They're politically motivated, but will deny it as soon as they see people start tying cancel nooses. Neece? Whatever.I don't think people would have a problem with ACKS if it was ever fairly discussed, but the shills try to promote a game that is incredibly inherently unappealing (by its nature of being a bloated, AI-laden and uninspired heartbreaker with rules that make the game less fun rather than more, which could only appeal to the tiniest demographic, basically only the most soulless, rules-oriented and fun-hating people) as the greatest game of all time everyone should be playing. It's that kind of activity that makes anyone who looks into the game and then compare it to the praise the shills give it instantly realize "oh fuck, these guys are shills, and they're utterly shameless."It's why they keep getting banned, and why they're so desperate to turn 4chan into the last place they can still try to shill their product.
>>98797955Now THIS is fishracing! The salt is unmistakable, the briny stench of having been pickled in the ocean for a lifetime.
>>98797955>ACKS if it was ever fairly discussed,We've even seen that before, when instead of the game being ignored as it usually is, the ACKShill decided he wanted /tg/ to discuss it.Around the time the ACKShill had his famous meltdown in the /3eg/ when he was there trying to shamelessly promote ACKS during its last kickstarter, he was actually seen trying to shill the game in other threads (including in the /5eg/ where his posts were almost immediately deleted).And, people tore up his asshole. "Fairly" discussed, ACKS is a bad game, and the criticisms laid against it made the ACKShill so mad, that's probably when he personally swore to act like a cancer on this board in revenge for how thoroughly the game was torn apart.It wasn't even the low-hanging fruit, like the bad writing, bad art, bad setting, bad community, and bad "promotional practices", just people looking at the overly complicated rules and explaining how and why they were objectively bad.There's a good reason the game has largely died, even beyond its efforts to promote itself backfiring tremendously. It's a game made by someone aping what Mentzer did with BECMI, adding rules on top of B/X but with little regard for how they actually function during games. It has embarassingly low quality rules that ACKShill somehow hopes people won't immediately notice are a bloated mess, when that's the only way a sane person could describe them.Even just combat feels terrible thanks to very stupid ideas like individual initiative rolled every round, and it gets laughable when you look at the procedures for mass combat, which are a contender for the worst rules ever written by the nature of how unneccesarily repetitive, nonsensical, and cripplingly boring they are.Fairly discussed, it's shat upon. Which is largely the reason the ACKShill chooses to instead shriek and troll and try to divert the discussion to be about his fishfag in the face of people just honestly saying "it's a bad game."
>>98797955Well, there might be some truth to what you are saying. But I've always tended to just skip ACKS posts and that seemed fine. I'm not sure how I would even prevent ACKS posting from happening. Raise a stink every time someone mentions ACKS? Given the psychology of 4chan, that would probably backfire. Anons would start posting about ACKS just to irritate me. It's bad enough that I've been saddled with the name Fishfag, which my own daughter has started using incidentally instead of calling me Daddy.
>>98798107To be fair, a lot of games are bad. Most games don't appeal to most people. And, people are allowed to like those games. That's a motivation for some people to set up generals, so they can quietly discuss games that might otherwise be ridiculed.ACKS, quietly existing, isn't much of an issue. It's not great and has lots of problems and even its general design philosophy is deeply flawed and results in that excessive and ever-present bloat, but there's arguably worse games. It's really just the shills that are a problem.
