>Chani is my secret weapon,” Villeneuve said about his changes to the character. “Frank Herbert was sad to realize that people saw the book as a celebration of Paul Atreides. He wanted to do a cautionary tale against messianic figures, a warning against blending religion and politics. I wrote the second movie trying to be more faithful to Frank Herbert’s intentions than to the book.”>“In the book, Chani is just a follower,” the director continued. “I came up with the idea of her being reluctant. She gives us the critical distance and perspective on Paul’s journey. I wanted to make sure the audience will understand that Paul becomes a dark figure, that his choices are exactly what Chani was afraid of. He becomes the colonizers the Fremen were fighting against. And then the movie becomes the cautionary tale Frank Herbert was wishing for
>>198592250flick was dogshit already forgotten dont care
So basically he had 0 faith in his audience to understand the point of the story without having a character say outright what the message of the movie is.
Shut up you french idiot
>>198592318Shut up you chud!
>>198592305Most understandable thing he did desu
>>198592250>"I think my interpretation is more accurate.">"So I made Chani an unattractive bitch who betrays Paul.">"I also didn't include Navigators, lol."Such vision.
>>198592250maybe pick a better and more attractive actress if thats your intentionnobody wants to be associated with that ugly mutt
>>198592250He isn’t wrong
>>198592250When the fuck did he colonized the fremen? It was either he was the messiah or they send him back to die in the desert
>>198592250maybe frank hackbert should have written his fucking book better then.MUH EVIL COLONIZERS N SHEET WE WUZ FREMEN!
It's a masterclass in masterpiece making.
>>198592696But everything goes to hell in the third book, so what is this about? At least Chani dies so there is something to look forward to I guess.
>>198592250>Blah, Blah I made her a Girl Boss Fuck off
>>198592794>At least Chani dies so there is something to look forward to I guess.>Villecuck: Chani is my secret weapon. Dude she is going to kill Paul in Part 3
>>198592250cutting chani's parts in the movie enhances the pacing a lot,and you dont have to see all the actors trying to tolerate her with an anoyed confused face.
>>198592250>He becomes the colonizers the Fremen were fighting against.Okay, but that doesn't come across in the movie whatsoever. He's basically just a gigachad hero who solves all their fucking problems and leads them to victory while she seethes in the background about nothing.
>>198592250>helps the fremen fight back against a bunch of degenerates>succeeds>"no no no, he is le bad because he is seen as a messiah! You don't get it?"I seriously don't get it, even if he turns bad in the next movie, this one doesn't make you feel that Paul is gonna become a bad guy, it's actually completely heroic imo. It just makes Chani look like a bitch.
>>198592894>Dude she is going to kill Paul in Part 3As it was written
>>198592250He really is a horse's ass.
>>198592696What did Paul do wrong though?What should Paul have done?Really don't even attempt to have arguments anymore, it's just buzzwords galore
>>198592696>One time, when Paul was 15, he claims he didn't want to become a despot, "lol">THEN, horrible trauma occurs regarding his family.>Paul changes his mind about what reality is and that he doesn't get to be a 15-year-old royalty worshipped immature child.>Paul actively chooses, with intense, fervent consideration, what leadership role is best for his family and humanity.>Over and over and over, for years and years, Paul (with outright magical ability to see the future, even generations ahead into the future) considers thousands, millions, billions of choices and selects his role. Repeatedly. With strong study.>"But I'm going to de-value Paul and those choices in the 3rd film and have him seek redemption, rofl. He regrets all that.">"Chani was morally correct and right for bitching and betraying him in my movies, btw."No.https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1713194701020069.webm
>>198593085>"But I'm going to de-value Paul and those choices in the 3rd film and have him seek redemption, rofl. He regrets all that."What did Frank Herbert mean by this you mean?
>>198593219he doesnt seek redemption anyway.thats a very bad way to put it.he searches for the timeline that gives him the most time with chani,and waits until the twins are born.then he gives up completely.
Paul just gave the Fremen what they wanted - revenge on imperial fucking shits, sex slaves and looting. Its his son who fucks them up and he's half Fremen anyway so whatever >To the cultural anthropologist, one of the most disheartening aspects of the Museum Fremen was their commercialization and cheapening of the society whose ways they were intended to preserve. While Leto forbade any selling within the Museum Fremen villages themselves, rings of vendors' stands sprang up circling the mock sietches; there one could buy plastic crysknives and maker hooks, clearly stamped with their planet of manufacture — Giedi Prime. Stuffed toys in the shape of sandworms, sietch models to be cut out and assembled, stillsuited dolls — all were available to the tourist desiring a souvenir but not worried much about its authenticity. In the surrounding shops, one could have his fortune told by a "Sayyadina" or see panoramic displays of scenes from the life of Paul Muad'Dib, eat baklava or drink "spiced" (cinnamon-flavored) coffee. Yet worst of all was the reenactment of Fremen ritual, such as the Ceremony of the Seed, or the consecration of the Water of Life, not annually as had been the case when the rites were meaningful, but on the hour before bleachers full of pilgrims.>The Museum Fremen contained the worst of two possibilities: they possessed neither a fun-loving spirit of make-believe nor a genuine reverence for the past: their villages were carnivals without gaiety and rituals without respect. Among the excesses and follies of Emperor Leto's long reign, the Museum Fremen must be counted one of the most degrading.
>>198593219Go talk to Twitter.
>>198592250Dune is a poorly written franchise and km tired of pretending it's not
>>198593058He completely removed the spacing guild from part 2, do they really have a chance to come back?Alia beyond the real Kwisatz Haderach makes no real sense since it was always supposed to be a man but they tried this shit with the Wheel of Time series as well.I don't get why these two movies are so popular, you have to read the books to get anything out of them, they don't make much sense on their own.
>>198593058Extremely predictable. This is 100% happening.I even see an Eren-type of rant with Paul begging Chani to kill himFuck
>>198593279>People profiting is evilorly
>>198593332They should need the SG so any conspiracy doesn't get prescience pwnd but who knows how it will go. Tleilaxu transsexual secret agents will probably be dropped which is a shame because Scytale is a cool character
>1970s>man writes book>it has themes>cost: a few years, $250 typewriter>result: endures for half a century (so far) and makes people want to spend trillions of dollars on adaptations of it>2020s>man makes 3rd movie adaptation of book so that people don't have to read book>excludes 60% of the content in the book, simplifies and "streamlines" the rest>mostly a visual spectacle for literal retards (average IQ of audience, calculated for by studio: literally 75-80~)>cost: trillions of dollars, 10 years of planning, billions of combined labor hours>result: forgotten in 3 years when the next adaptation of some other 70s book comes out
>>198592250>He becomes the colonizers the Fremen were fighting against. And then the movie becomes the cautionary tale Frank Herbert was wishing forIf Paul wasn't there with his prescience the Fremen would have been wiped out by the Harkonenn. Anyone would read Dune and didn't know Paul's "terrible purpose" was not a hero arc is beyond stupid. It's not a rational explanation for Messiah and it certainly isn't a rational explanation for Chani being a heretic. If a woman stood up in Mecca and said "Mohammad is bullshit" only a basedbean faggot would think she wouldn't be taken and thrown off the nearest roof.
>>198593574Chani was dating their messiah figure though, she could say whatever she wanted about the prophesy.
>>198593791They were all ready to wreck Paul when he said he could beat anyone. He wasn't their messiah at that point. LOL even she stood up like she was going to wreck him when he said that, what a fucking mess.
/tv/ was right about Penis being a HACK
>>198593532That's the magic of WB press tour
>>198593816This was right after she brought him back to life exactly according to the prophesy, which is what they were all praying about. And during that scene Paul gets the support of all the Fremen. He was basically their messiah.
>>198593907>And during that scene Paul gets the support of all the Fremen.Did you read what I posted?>They were all ready to wreck Paul when he said he could beat anyone. He wasn't their messiah at that point.>HE WASN'T THEIR MESSIAH AT THAT POINT.These are the most fanatical Fremen and she's running in spouting off her blasphemy.
>>198592305Bookreaders didn't understand the first book either so Herbert had to write Messiah to drive to point across
>>198592305>>198594074People not understanding Paul's choice is a poisoned chalice is just not believable. He repeatedly says 'terrible purpose' he repeatedly shows disdain for the murders that will be committed in his fathers name and he knows he cannot stop it.
>>198593974>These are the most fanatical Fremen and she's running in spouting off her blasphemy.fanatic fremen seem to work like a feminist liberal democracy somehow.
why is this movie so popular? i don't get itt. book reader
>>198594287There's nothing else out. And it's not that popular.
>>198594287My name is PAUL MUAD'DIB ATREIDES, DUKE OF ARRAKIS
>>198594341
>>198593085>"But I'm going to de-value Paul and those choices in the 3rd film and have him seek redemption, rofl. He regrets all that."Literally what happens in the third book. I'm not going to use twitter buzzwords like media literacy, I'm just going to call you a secondary and a retard.
>>198594429*second and third book, I should say.
>>198594135It was a poisoned chalice but ultimately he made the selfish (but understandable) decision to ascend to the throne and spark a galactic jihad rather than succumbing to the various plots on his own life. Paul absolutely COULD HAVE averted the galactic jihad, but not without sacrificing his own life, so he chose jihad despite being appalled by it.
>>198594135>People not understanding Paul's choice is a poisoned chalice is just not believableThe truth is that dune got too popular, Messiah was supposed to be part of Dune put his editor told him it would be too long or something>>198594429>LiterallyNo retard, that's not what happens in the book. Paul never seeks redemption,Paul seeks a way OUT
>>198594471Would it JUST have been his own life? Would Jessica survive? Would Chani and his son and the rest of the Fremen survive the Harkonnen?
>>198594495There is no redemption because it's already done, you can't bring billions of people back. But to imply he doesn't regret everything he did is fucking lunacy. He's horrified by it.
>>198592250>He becomes the colonizers the Fremen were fighting againstWhat? What does colonisation even mean to these people? Paul, Jessica and Duncan are the only 3 remaining Atriedes of significance on Arrakis. Jessica and Paul are culturally Fremen anyway, having been through all their rituals. Calling them colonisers is not much different from calling Obama and Rishi Sunak colonisers for being from outside the nations the led/lead
>>198592250>Paul colonized the fremenIf a culture was fabricated and synthetic to begin with, can it even be colonized?
>>198594471>Paul absolutely COULD HAVE averted the galactic jihad, but not without sacrificing his own life,Wrong. He saw that it was too late and it would happen without him. In fact it would probably have been worse and more out of control. There was the second path that led to "Hello, Grandfather" but this was never mentioned again after Paul first saw it and it seemed to no longer be an option.
>>198594581Yeah, what horseshit. Their whole "culture" revolves around the harshness of the desert. Yet their dream is to have a "green paradise".
>>198594522It probably wouldn't have been only Paul's life on the line, but even if the Harkonnens had killed everyone associated with House Atreides and all the Fremen on Arrakis, the death toll would still be far less than the death toll of Paul's galactic jihad. Ultimately though I always thought that Paul's decisions were based on rational self interest, not some sort of utilitarian calculation based on doing the least possible harm. I feel like that interpretation fits more with Frank Herbert's portrayal of Paul and Jessica as cynical manipulators using religion to get others to do their bidding while not actually believing in it themselves.
>b-but muh touchscreen float
>>198594471Is Chani anti-jihad? Is there any point during the movie where she is explicitly anti-war? Or is it that she's simply upset it wasn't a real fremen that led them to victory? Or maybe she's upset that it wasn't *her* who led them? Not like a "real fremen" exists anyway in the movie. Not only are they a racially ambiguous blob, but they are already clearly factionalized (Northern fremen vs the southern fremen). Not to even mention that Paul doesn't just meet but exceeds all expectations set for him in order to prove his validity as their true leader.
>>198594630That too, but their culture is largely a creation of the bene gesserit, done merely to support the possible eventuality they might need to be manipulated.The fremen are astroturf.
>>198592250I hate this buzzword, but I cant find a better one. Dunc 2 is dishonest
>>198594654I found this scene quite spatially confusing. The Fremen and Jamis' body is right beside the rock formation. The Harkonnen are seen right on top of Jamis body. One Harkonnen follows Paul and Jessica's trail right under the rocks. Then they cut to this shot with the thumper going off and they are far away from the rocks.
i watched this moviestuff happenedi felt no connection to anythingi did not care about any of the charactersit was absolutely shit
>>198592250shut the fuck up. hail muadib. we must secure the existence of our people and a future for fremen children
>>198592250>Paul was literally Alexander the Greatbased
>>198592250>more faithful to Frank Herbert’s intentions than to the bookSoundsLikeBullshit
>>198594074Th correct choice was to let Baron Harkonen win? Am I reading that right?
>>198592912>seethes in the background about nothing.Well in that sense it is an accurate portrayal of the people who drone on about muh colonization.
>>198594655No idea really. I thought her character was kind of a mess in the movie. She and Paul have zero chemistry on screen, and she seems to dislike him at every turn. Plus she's a literal Fremen-supremacist who's main complaint about overthrowing the Harkonnens is that the movement was led by a non-Fremen. If Fremen society were "white coded" she would have been the subject of ridicule by the movie but because Fremen are noble brown people they're allowed to have racist beliefs.
Dennis glorifies sandnigger behaviour.Dune fans are also fucking retarded and don’t know their own books or who wrote them. Pic related.The author (Frank Herbert) who wrote Dune was a homophobic pro-eugenicist breeding fetishist who was absolutely obsessed with procreation, to the point where he disowned his gay son (Bruce) for being “an evolutionary dead end”, while his other son (Brian) went on to butcher and rape his father’s legacy once he kicked the bucket. Frank also wouldn’t have his gay son at his wife’s deathbed.Did you disown the correct child Frank? Frank also for some reason assumed an all-male military was destined to devolve into gay sex, so the armies of the god-emperor consist of all-women. Because women would never rape or abuse power. Surely.The Bene Gesserit aren’t a good example of a “strong” female order either, since they’re terrified of the masculine ego behind closed doors, and worship the coming of a prophecized god-male who they fear they will be unable to even control.Why are Dune enthusiasts so stupid and ignorant of their own beloved setting?The Baron being a fat gay pedophile isn’t even problematic by the way. I’m gay and I’m not offended by it.
>>198593532Precisely. All of this "modern" retelling shit won't last, because modern audiences attention only last for a while. The book is timeless
>>198594655This is what ruins it. He wants her to be a different character entirely but she can't be so she just comes off confused and retarded. The only time she ever really explains her issue is when she complains that Paul isn't biologically Fremen (I guess we should assume she IS 100% Fremen in this version). But like you said, that means nothing in this version when the Fremen are a huge mix of people and cultures.Not to mention it makes her look so stupid. If she wants biological Fremen to rule the planet then she just needs to have his kids and let them take the throne after he's conquered the universe. She acts so fucking shocked and when he takes the Emperors throne, wtf did she think was gonna happen. He would just ask him and his army to leave?
>>198595104>he's bi-sexual and stuffand stuff. lol what a cop out.
>>198595061if you kill your enemies, they win.
>>198595061No and even in the movie that's not presented as what should happen. Paul wants to beat the Baron but without going to the south, which he knows will trigger a holy war.
>>198595138(I guess we should assume she IS 100% Fremen in this version)lol I realized this while watching Pt 2 as well. In the books Chani is the daughter of Kynes and so genetically would be considered half-Fremen at most. Definitely made her rece-conscious movie portrayal feel extra jarring. I'm pretty sure she has no origin story in the movie apart from being a "Northern" Fremen.
>>198595104>I’m gay
>>198595291Clearly he is lying to look better. No gay person would approve of the Baron.
>>198595104>Because women would never rape or abuse power. SurelyIn the next book Honored Matres are introduced dumbass
>>198594816They had to go out into the desert a bit to get a run at it.
>>198595104>homophobiche makes fun of homophobic duncan during god emperor lolis this a pasta or something you write like that deranged whore grimes who thinks she's the lady jessica made flesh
>>198595426Frank ate his own argument kek, or did he perhaps prove it?
>>198595491It’s well known that Frank hated his son for being homosexual
>>198595575It seems like Leto II was a naive virgin when it came to women. even if he was a God
>>198595616I wonder how different individual supreme beings would be, had they sat at the same table.
>>198595596cool. so that means his hate for his son didn't translate into his books
>>198595131The book is dogshit written by a hippie retard. The Lynch version was the best.
>>198595847No, it definitely did. All you have to do is google the anti-gay themes in Dune and threads on Reddit will pop up about it.
>>198595847>>198595652
>>198592696>Can literally see the future >Pussies out from his destined path>Son has to become a literal monster to save humanity from extinction
Denisse is a literal midwit lmaoWhy not just go the distance and make him wear a full nazi costume and wave a swastika if you think the audience is as retarded as yourself
>>198595847yeah,that harem of twinks that serve the baron and he rapes constantly was just unconected to anything.
>>198595920>>198595951idgaf what plebittors or some right wing fag like you think. i myself am gay (far gayer than you'll ever be) and didn't find anything homophobic about the series
>>198596151>omg all gays have to be saints or else you're homophobic
>>198592250i dont remember the last time i was genuinely bored the whole movie. wtf where they thinking. i know hollywood runs on nepotism for the chosen people but cmon these actors if you can call them that have as much character as a dishwashing rag. they must have used b-roll for part two
>>198592250>>198594135people celebrate paul because they're not presented an alternative. the alternative, based on the movies, is accepting subjugation by emps and the harkonnensvilleneuve, the hack, did nothing to alleviate this situation
>>198596339Exactly?What the fuck is Paul supposed to do? If they destroy the Harkonnens, there are other houses that will take their place and they will continue fighting forever because spice is literally the most valuable substance in that universe.And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the jihad, while terrible, necessary to ensure humanity's permanent survival?
>>198594654they fly now??
>>198596054
>>198592250Tell me about Dunewhy do they wear the nosepegs
>>198595987>Pussies out from his destined pathBeing a half worm for a millenia is something only a pre-born freak like Leto II would be willing to do
>>198592250>I wrote the second movie trying to be more faithful to Frank Herbert’s intentions than to the book.this is going to be the euphanism all these retarded liberal homosexual hollywood folk use to ruin all adaptions in the future.>"DuNe WaS NeVeR aXeTuaLLy AboUt PauL AnD MaN's StrUggLeS WiTh DeStinY. iT's ReaLLy AboUt ChAni bEiNg a BoSsBitCH GirLbOSs aNd HoW WhiTe PeopLe ArE EviL CoLoStOMiZers oR SoMe ShiT BrO!" -villeneuve
>>198594471>Paul absolutely COULD HAVE averted the galactic jihad, but not without sacrificing his own life, so he chose jihad despite being appalled by it.it was a catch 22. his only chance of stopping it was to become emperor. he saw the visions of the unstoppable galactic jihad happening in his father's name, not his name. he saw it as happening either way, but at least as emperor he could maybe control/direct/lessen it.
>>198597127Even if it were true that Herbert's intent was to be critical of Paul and his actions, the flaw would be Herbert's, given than Paul is the only real sympathetic character in the book and readers come away celebrating his success and revenge.Very similar to Starship Troopers and the endless screeching that audiences didn't pick up hard enough on the anti-fascist satire, when instead audiences correctly concluded that fascist militarism was strongly preferable to extinction by bug.
>>198592250chani was an obnoxious cunt in ↄunc. by far the worst part of the movie. total character assassination.
>>198597353>given than Paul is the only real sympathetic character in the book? Leto and Jessica were sympathetic too, Stilgar was too at the beginning. Even Chani was symphatetic since her love was supposed to keep him grounded and human and override the nightmarish thing he will do ,(but ofc in 2024 a woman cannot be loving to her partner, she HAS to be equal to him and slap him)
>>198592250Oh my God what a fucking cunt this hack is. In interviews Villeneuve said he was going to be faithful to the books. Just all bullshit. Your Dunc is so shit that it's already forgotten, you French faggot.
>>198592277FPBP with holy trips. Are you the Kwisatz Haderach?
>>198597577>JessicaI disagree to a point. Jessica is sympathetic, but Jessica is also the agent of a galactic control conspiracy, and she herself has low agency compared to Paul.>Letois sympathetic, but he's also dead, and what's more, the events reveal to Paul and the reader Leto's naivety in surviving space politics.>chaniAgree, but she also leverages her agency to support PaulPerhaps a better phrasing on my part is that there's no driving force in the book better suited to capture the reader's admiration and well wishes than Paul.
>>198596555Paul with his prescience "locks" the universe into that jihad. Granted, the alternatives are probably much worse but in the end, it's only Leto II's plan that will ensure humanity's really long term survival. Paul was too chickenshit to do what had to be done and wasn't aware of how much prescience fucks things up for everyone.
>>198594471>Paul absolutely COULD HAVE averted the galactic jihadNah, he sees early on that the Spacing Guild would both accept him and keep him supplied with spice but then he won't get revenge
>>198592250>that his choices are exactly what Chani was afraid of.His choices to defeat the absurdly evil oppressors of the Fremen, give the Fremen everything they've ever wanted and elevate his followers to their rightful place as rulers of the known universe? Is that what Chani is fighting against? The problem of Dune is so inherent in the work that it can't be fixed. It doesn't work as a warming against false prophets, because Paul is not a false prophet.
>>198592250Fremen are not native to Arrakis, they are native to earth and have colonized Arrakis. Many Fremen were white. Paul is olive skinned Greek.
>>198592250Why would Herbert build his story around the Arab Conquests and then shoehorn in some shit about colonization and some imagined disaster despite the real world result being a massive success for those people? No wonder Tolkien thought it was shit.
>>198592250>I wrote the second movie trying to be more faithful to Frank Herbert’s intentions than to the book.”This dishonest piece of shit. Reminder that they literally worked with BRIAN Herbert on the script.
>>198597769>tripsyou retarded or nah?
>>198592520thanks for the reddit spacing, kind stranger
>>198598325>His choices to defeat the absurdly evil oppressors of the Fremen, give the Fremen everything they've ever wanted and elevate his followers to their rightful place as rulers of the known universe?The last part is what Chani is not a fan of. No, she would rather not have the Fremen be a conquering army.
>>198592250Isn't the whole broader vision is that Paul becoming the Voice of the Outer World and Emperor was necessary as a prequisite to his son Leto II becoming God Emperor and putting humanity through the Golden Path and saving us all from extinction in the distant future?So ultimately if Paul hadn't done what he had done Humanity would have all died many millennia later, so the messianic worship was justified, in a sorta secular way.
>>198598734Literally everything he does makes it justifiable to worship him as a god to the Fremen. Like who fucking cares if it was an engineered psyop by the (((Bene Gesserit))), he fucking got results.
>>198592250This is why Lynch's dune is better, he made Paul an unambiguous good guy, even in the extended cut.
The fuck is Herbert on about the golden path was the only way for humanity not to go extinct
>>198599021I think Herbert may have gone a bit to far in some places
>>198592250it's obvious he rewrote the character because the actress wasn't capable of doing the intended part
>>198597880> Leto's naivety in surviving space politics.Ehh to me Leto was anything but naive, he had a solid plan with the fremen only Yueh betrayal is what fucked him up
>>198599111That's fair
>>198593084>what should he have doneLet his father and family go unavenged and become a desert dweller
>>198592250>LE HECKIN MEDIA LITERACYYeah I’m gonna avoid this garbage thanks for the heads up
>>198593050He knew their religion was fake and harnassed it to achieve his own ends
Imagine being Timothee Chalamet in that scene and having to be all like "damn, Zendaya, you fuckin' fine, all sexy with your tight body and horrific androgynous monster face. I would totally have sex with you, both my character and the real me." when all he really wants to do is paint x-box controllers in his dressing room. Like seriously imagine having to be Paul Muad'Dib and not only sit on that Shai-Hulud while Zendaya flaunts her disgusting stillsuit in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing her stretchmarks and leathery skin, and just sit there, take after take, hour after hour, while she perfected that dance. Not only having to tolerate her monstrous fucking visage but her haughty attitude as everyone on set tells her she's STILL GOT IT and DAMN, ZENDAYA LOOKS LIKE THAT?? because they're not the ones who have to sit there and watch her mannish fucking gremlin face contort into types of grimaces you didn't even know existed before that day. You've been fucking nothing but a healthy diet of nepo-babies and supermodels and later alleged Kardashians for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in New York City. You've never even seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on her dimpled stomach as she sucks it in to writhe it suggestively at you, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to get paid to sit there and revel in her "statuesque (for that is what she calls herself)" beauty, the beauty she worked so hard for with personal trainers in the previous months. And then Denis calls for another take, and you know you could kill every single person in this room before the studio security could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because you're the fucking Kwisatz Haderach. You're not going to lose your future franchise over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.
>>198600196Eventual death by genocide via harkonnens and spacers guild. Paul had no option to just live the quiet life.
>>198600248Nta, a serious takeaway from the book is the question of whether it really is fake, to what degree. The bene gesserit believe they have constructed culture and faith th benefit their plans. But the kwisatzch haderach is an anomaly in their plans. It's entirely plausible that the bene gesserit themselves are merely a cog in a broader spiritual wheel. This is why people say Paul is an actual messiah despite the contrivance.
>>198593574The Fremen were doing just fine against the Harkonnen. The war would have continued for another 600 years until the Fremen had enough water stockpiled to terraform the desert
>>198594074I thought it made perfect sense because it's not really about the colonizer shit it's about the believable way a religion gets formed with everyone (including the supposed messiah) swept up along the way unable to stop it.
>>198592305Considering reddit and 1/2 the retards out there seem to be fans of the Harkonnens and are calling Paul a "Villain" for getting retribution. Either these people are nuts, or its more proof of how soft Westerners have got. Someone can come and kill your family and friends, and if you seek revenge you are "Evil"
>>198600379Sietch Tabr and its cistern get bombed right in the movie. The Harkonnen could've destroyed every water reservoir if Feyd cared enough
>>198592250Slop
>>198600269Why does every 1/2 black girl in America have that angry resting bitch face 24/7?Rhianna is another one that does it. She can look quite pretty at times, then she screws her face up like a nigger and the nose starts flaring out and they look like monkeys.
>>198600573>Why does every 1/2 black girl in America have that angry resting bitch face 24/7?its the negro version of the thousand cock stare.
>>198595276No, her father Liet Kynes was half Fremen and basically the uncrowned king of them. This is why Paul and her being together is a big deal for the Fremen, she's a peoples princess shacked up with the Mahdi
>>198592250>my work is more true to the author's vision than the author's own actual writingsJesus the arrogance of this genuinely middling talented Francophone fuckwit is almost impressive. If only his filmmaking was equally so.
>>198592250>Franks vision of the book was to make Chani a contemptible bitch who undermines Paul constantly>I know better than the authorThe fucking arrogance
>>198600248It was literally embrace the religion or die. Paul had no other choice, the only reason the fremen accepted him was because was potential messiah
>>198597026The hardest choices require the strongest wills
Quick /tv/, which is more charismaticZendaya >>198592250or this friendly sea creature?
>>198601780That friendly sea creature
israelbros..... its over
>>198592250>He becomes the colonizers the Fremen were fighting against.>frees them from brutal tyranny and puts their desert world on the path to being a verdant utopiaColonisation sounds great
I really hope they make a foundation movie. Just ignore the fucking faggot tv show. To be fair they did ignore the lynch movie so it's possible.
>>198592250>more faithful to Frank Herbert’s intentions than to the bookI liked both movies, but the sheer arrogance of this comment lmao. All he did was dumb down and focus the book for movie format.>>198592250>“I came up with the idea of her being reluctant.“this is why I try to know as little as possible about movies other than a trailer and when it's coming out. Every time a director speaks it just ruins it a little.
>>198592250That's also precisely the reason part 2 was underwhelming. Sure it was a visual spectacle. The audio was great. But he fucked up the story. I had high hopes after part 1. But he did Dune dirty. Note: i don't give a shit about an author's intention. All that matters is what is written.
>>198601780that nigger killed steve irwin
>>198602267you either die a hero or you swim long enough to see yourself become the villain
>>198602267It was self defense
>>198595104>The Baron being a fat gay pedophile isn’t even problematic by the way. I’m gay and I’m not offended by it.
>>198594429No he doesn't. He knows what needs to be done and does it willingly, he only pussies out from becoming the God-Emperor of Wormkind.
>>198600464>Considering reddit and 1/2 the retards out there seem to be fans of the Harkonnens>these people are nutsHarkonnens are degenerate hedonists with no honour and tis why deep down many many people in the modern world identify with them more. It's not a surprise.
>>198602267I don't think she's ever been to Australia
>>198593058Lisan al gaib...
>>198592250>He wanted to do a cautionary tale against messianic figures, a warning against blending religion and politics.He clearly never read dune messiah
>>198600464>>198602952The Harkonnens were pansexual protectors of abortion rights before Paul Atchudlies ruined everything
>>198603037IT all makes sense now. The irony of them backing white skinhead dudes who have a Patriarchy.
Vladimir Harkonnen playing with baby Jessica is idiotic. Why would they ever meet?
>>198594135Thing is the book never made it clear if the purpose was actually terrible or if it was Paul just being fearful and not believing in himself, which is a common enough plot device in hero's journey stories. Internal conflict as something the hero must overcome.
>>198592250Chani would’ve been quite the boring character in the later movies if she just went along with paul, not enough tension. But this reasoning for it is retarded. I hope he’s just lying and the real reason is something like I said.
>>198603558Shes literally the last Fremen left not believing in Paul and she's his fucking partner.Terrible character. Hopefully that Sandworm ate her at the end and he goes and has Leto with the Emperors hot daughter.
>>198592250He's right. Most of of Frank's stuff about the downside of what Paul does is in Messiah, not Dune.Dune doesn't end in a way that leads into Messiah. It ends with Paul completing a heroes journey and dividing the spoils of his complete victory. Messiah awkwardly time jumps past all the actual bad Paul unleashes.
I have never been into Dune and haven't seen the originals or read the book. I have read LOTR and the Orphan's Call series and the Expanse and Hyperion and several sci fi short stories (Swarm for example, the inspiration for the overmind in SC). I've read Heinlein. I loved Starship Troopers and a lot of the OG Star Trek content after they got older. I liked The Phantom Menace and Rogue One and a lot of the Star Wars content that wasn't the movies which for the most part I thought were all shit after Attack of the Clones. Did not care for any of the OG trilogy unless Vader was in the scene. I like some NuTrek. SNW has some pretty great performers and sets and eps. Star Trek's Disovery's first two season are legitimately good. The third is ok. Everything after that is 0/10 unwatchable. I've seen some of the lower decks, didn't care for it. Picard is trash. Legate Damar is the best character in Star Trek.I honestly can't get into Dune. I just can't. I don't know what's wrong with me. I pirated both movies and it took me 3 days to get through the first and 3 days later I'm only about an hour into the second. I already read the wiki and after that and the movie here's what I don't understand. Isn't Paul's entire existence, to include his lineage and his upbringing, all specifically orchestrated by the Bene Gesserit? How are people calling him all this terrible shit when he genuinely is the victim? He was forced to kill before he'd even pillowed with a woman. The majority of the people he loved were killed. These movies are honestly way too fast paced to make me care or even remember a lot of it. I've fallen asleep trying to finish pretty much every night.
>>198603693>Dune doesn't end in a way that leads into Messiah. It ends with Paul completing a heroes journey and dividing the spoils of his completeYet 1/2 the people coming away from the movie are calling Paul evil. I guess if your family and friends are wiped out, you should go and hug the people who did it?
The Jihad was obviously monstrous but wasn't it and Leto's rule the best outcome for mankind?It forced mankind to innovate and spread across the universe.
>>198592250What? Paul literally did nothing wrong in Dunc tho
>>198603721Yes that's because the movie goes to effort to actually provoke that reaction.The furthest the book ever goes is thin things like Gurney mumbling to himself for a second before immediately snapping back to Yes M'Lord over the things Paul does once they're reunited.
>>198603698Not that weird to be into scifi in general and not into Dune - it's sort of one of a kind. Very different from all that other stuff.
>>198603693>It ends with Paul completing a heroes journey and dividing the spoils of his complete victory. That's villeneuve DUNC. The book beats you over the head with the jihad, the terrible purpose. There is no mention of that in Dunc
>>198592250>“Frank Herbert was sad to realize that people saw the book as a celebration of Paul Atreides. He wanted to do a cautionary tale against messianic figures, a warning against blending religion and politics.No shit, its pretty fucking obvious in the book that Herbert wasn't a fan of organized militant religion.>I wrote the second movie trying to be more faithful to Frank Herbert’s intentions than to the bookWell he failed because I'm pretty sure Frank Herbert didn't intend for proto-Twilight plot with Paul and Chani. Denis has jumped the shark.
>>198603721Yes because if you kill your enemies they win you dumbfuck uneducated chud kys
>>198603826No it doesn't you fucking idiot. The movie ends with the Great Houses telling Paul to go kick rocks, and he unleashes the Jihad on them for it.In the book the Great Houses are sent cowering back to their worlds at his command because the Guild knows his threat against the Spice isn't a bluff, and the rest is him literally spending a chapter talking with Jessica and Chani about how everything they now own is going to be divided up and who gets what. There's no Jihad there, and Messiah starts after the Jihad is over.
>>198593058Alia loves paul and is more gung ho about the jihad than he is. She's the sole reason I have faith that maybe, MAYBE, Paul won't be killed off with a happy ending of yas qween the queen of the fremen.>>198594655I am clearly biased against her, but if you divorce her gender and relationship to Paul then she simply comes across as a racial chauvenist. Or in less brutal terms to use a historical parallel, the Rashidun caliphate and to an extent Umayyads struggled with the question of Muhammad's message and Islam where some felt it was an arab faith and converts would always be secondclass citizens, and some felt it was a faith for everyone (if arabs might be first among equals). Chani is full on the former to a straight up chud-chauvenist degree. There's even a point in the film I remember, I think before riding the sand worm or after it, where she's both lovey dovey with Paul and also>You're just a white boy foreigner, you ain't Fremen and you never will be so you can't be our leader.I guess horseshoe theory because who the fuck could support that kind of bullshit except /pol/ or a woke nig. Like yeah, Mtumbu shows up in Vikinglands he'll never be biologically a viking, but if Mtumbu kills Grendel and Grendel's mom and the dragon and out-fights some great berserker and hits every note of a prophecy by Odin and is poised to kick Charlemange's teeth in and lead us on a great pagan crusade to wipe out Monotheism then I don't really give a shit that Mtumbu is a black ass nigguh, he's clearly Odin's chosen hero. And if I'm given meta knowledge by the author to know this was just a Jewish-gesserit conspiracy then I also have the meta knowledge the jewish gesserits are terrified of him.>>198598339They really just hate red heads for some reason.
>>198603721Going for revenge after all that would be expected of a normal person in Paul's situation, the difference is he's not normal, he can see the future and the factual consequences of his actions. He can see that it's not just the Harkonnen villains getting what's due but billions of innocent people will die because of him.There is a point in the book where he literally considers just kysing himself or becoming a hermit in the desert to avoid all that but then he goes ahead with the jihad anyway.So what does that say about him?
>>198603946I know this is either bait or you read only the wiki of Dune but you know the Jihad is inevitable right? The whole third part of the book tells you that. Or do you needed a character literally spelling that the Holy War Begins..oh wait that's what villecuck did because retarded monkeys like you
>>198604016>So what does that say about him?That Paul choose his life, the life of his mother and Chani? Because Paul said it will take no less than to kill himself and everyone else in the cave to stop the jihad. Re read the book retard
>>198604079Yes he chose to kill billions of people.
>>198604016In book 2 onwards he knows of the golden path. I don't think book 1 has that knowledge, but it's weird that Frank both added to it to deal with people lionizing Paul but also makes Paul more sympathetic as time goes on, less. I do think the first book mentions the jihad is an inevitability, the only time he could have avoided it is if he killed himself and his mom after the orthicopter crash (and odds are at that time he didn't have a full vision of things). Or that he'd kill every single man woman and child in the sietch he was in including himself.This is more head-canon on my part, but it is easy to imagine Paul saw flickers of the golden path perhaps even before the water of life, the water of life just made it all clear. But he still had to take time to comprehend visions of the future thousands to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years in the future. So his initial vision was just of his life and the jihad, then he began to understand the golden path.It's easy to judge him from the comfort of our seat. He's a fucking what, 14-15 year old boy? Suddenly forced to deal with the ego memories of EVERY ANCESTOR GOING BACK TO THE FIRST SAPIENT HOMINID. There by the grace of fucking god did he not become an abomination. You know how hard it is to concentrate with a lot of people talking in a room? Talking at you?https://news.legacyfamilytree.com/legacy_news/2016/08/how-many-ancestors-do-we-have.htmlGoing off the inverted pyramid theory you'd have 32768 ancestors circa 1640AD. That's 384 years. Now consider Dune is what, 10,000 AD or so? It's not so easy to judge some scrawny ass boy selfishly turned into a living god-weapon who has to deal with the ego ghosts of probably at least a million ancestors (male and female)
>>198604040Yeah and like Frank said people didn't walk away from it understanding that, because it was written as a standalone book where all that gets brushed aside by a "And they lived happily ever after" ending.Fucks sake, it's not even consistent, Paul sells Chani on the marriage of convenience because he intends to end the conflict and restore the galactic norms, and make peace with the Great Houses.Messiah doesn't even bother dealing with that, the Landsraad just loses all influence and stops mattering during the timeskip.
>>198603946>he skipped all the vision sequences you're retarded
>>198592250>Villeneuve admitting he dumbed the movie down for low iq casualsI always knew this cuckbecois was a hack
>>198594686Thats seriously the ending? staring at zendattas ugly fucking mug while she breathes heavily? Christ what a hack.
>>198592658
>>198604821>Thats seriously the ending?Sadly, no. They're making a DUNC3, which will be mostly bad fanfiction, considering that DUNC2 already diverged massively from its source material.
>>198592305This board alone proves that people really are too stupid to get basic things
>>198593050Exploiting other people’s religion for your own benefit when you become their messiah without actually giving a shit about the religion? Hmmmmmm….
>>198592696I was gonna ask when Paul killed his own family members like Michael but remembered the Harkkonens lel
>>198593058Imagine making up a problem to get angry about. This poster is retarded
>>198592250Paul didn't have a choice, he chose the best path available to him that wasn't the Golden Path since the Golden Path required the galaxy to burn and for him to rape babies to death in front of their mothers and then eat the babies and then eat the mothers tooIt wasn't a cautionary tale, really. It was a tale of the truth and how hard it is to do the right thing. The Kwisatz Haderach has to begin exterminating mankind, it's the only way to reach utopia, Paul couldn't bring himself to do it.>>198592696Nope, he's wrong. In order for there to be truly effective change in Dune like there is in the real world REQUIRES blood, more blood, more change. It's just where we are right now, and it's fucked up and horrible...but it's still true.
>>198592250Isn't the space princess irradiated with a deadly dose of gamma radiation?Didn't they drop giant ass fusion nukes near their makeshift castle?
>>198592250Chani realized in the book that the Fremen were going to be annihilated by either the Harkonnens or whoever the emperor chose to replace them and that the war was the only way for them to survive. Chani in the movie is just retarded.
>>198592250I don’t much agree with Villeneuve’s assessment of Paul. And honestly, I don’t think the movie he made agrees either.
>>198608809Book Chani is a doormat with little to no character.
>>198608821He made very bad and stupid movies.The spectacle at first was large with the first Dune for some reason but in retrospect its meh.
>>198603842>organized militant religionLike atheism of the 20th century on the state enforced level and then the new atheists and their reddit internet warriors?
>>198608519>The Kwisatz Haderach has to begin exterminating mankind, it's the only way to reach utopia, Paul couldn't bring himself to do it.This. Paul was a coward and his empathy damned all of humanity to hell.
>>198608860She was better that way.
>>198606167Real Chani looks like this, elfin and red-haired
>>198607752Yes, it's an allegory for how VIlleneuve/Brian exploit Dune fans' devotion to the original books by pretending to give a fuck.
>>198603375>Vladimir Harkonnen playing with baby Jessica is idiotic.anon. he is her father.
>>198608860Far more sympathetic than Villenueve "I'm mad all the time to serve as a directorial mouthpiece" Chani
>>198603698>I honestly can't get into Dune.because, as pointed out many times, the story of Dune is just... not that good. the "messsage" is convoluted and ambiguous and argued over. the characters are all two dimensional and they are all written with such... apathy? or lack of care from the narrator/author. you dont resonate with anyone in Dune like you do in star wars or lord of the rings. there is no frodo. no luke. no sam. no han. no leia. etc. the one character with any character. Paul is purposely obtuse and written as such an unrelatable character(who can relate to god king messiah of the universe?) at least Luke and Anakin were humanized in their stories even though they were also "chosen ones". dune is a cool setting, the world building is alright. thats all it had going for it and what made it translate into movies that - over and over again - remain meandering spectacles that jsut dont grab the audience at all the way star wars does.all the hype around the current films is astroturfed villenue adveritising. his blade runner movie was the same shit. inconsequential overhyped mishandled adaptations appropriated by someone who was just looking for a story, any story, to use as a basis to insert his favorite actors, make a lot of loud reverb noises, and pay pajeets to shit out boring bland lazy low effort cgi scene after cgi scene.
>>198608860>Book Chani is a doormat with little to no character.ya. she was just a plot device for paul to marry into the fremen society. she was never suppose to be "the second main character of dune" as villenue has painted her. imagine if in the lord of the rings films they made arwen into a main character who just doesnt trust anyone in the fellowship but ends up helping them and marrying aragorn anyways. it would have been retarded poorly thought out nonsense.and thats what villenue's chani is. retarded poorly thought out nonsense.
>>198601780Even pic rel is friendlier and better looking than Zoomeraya.
>>198609390Actually Chani was more of a plot device for Jessica, of all people. Jessica finally makes peace with being "only a concubine" which she struggled since the beginning of the book by relating to her in the end. It's important enough to be the very end of the book.>Jessica nodded, feeling suddenly old and tired. She looked at Chani. "And for the royal concubine?">"No title for me," Chani whispered. "Nothing. I beg of you.">Paul stared down into her eyes, remembering her suddenly as she had stood once with little Leto in her arms, their child now dead in this violence. "I swear to you now," he whispered, "that you'll need no title. That woman over there will be my wife and you but a concubine because this is a political thing and we must weld peace out of this moment, enlist the Great Houses of the Landsraad. We must obey the forms. Yet that princess shall have no more of me than my name. No child of mine nor touch nor softness of glance, nor instant of desire.">"So you say now," Chani said. She glanced across the room at the tall princess.>"Do you know so little of my son?" Jessica whispered. "See that princess standing there, so haughty and confident. They say she has pretensions of a literary nature. Let us hope she finds solace in such things; she'll have little else." A bitter laugh escaped Jessica. "Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine - never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine - history will call us wives."
>>198609610In retrospect can we call the Marxism of every socialist state, a Utopia?
>>198593084if you kill your enemies... they LE win....
