For those of you who backed it or somehow pirated it, what do you think? I'm about to do the Mine Dungeon from the Beta.
>>3460800>For those of you who backed itI just realised that backers have early access. I was going to wait until the full release date despite having the game on my Steam account, thanks OP. Just finished downloading it on my Deck, we'll see how it goes.>difficulty: Hard>everything else: OFF
>>3460800>>3460820Look at the catalog you stupid niggers. >>3454283
>>3460827I didn't see the name when searching via the Catalog, so my mistake.
>>3460827Do you want to be a janny?That's weird
>>3460827Generals aren't allowed so having multiple threads up for a game is in fact more rule-abiding than not.
>Just got markusPlease tell me he's good
>>3463618He's shit. Casters are all shit.
>>3460800I backed the game on KS and my copy is STILL being delivered, fucking embarassing.
>>3463659>fucking embarassing.What is embarassing is that there is a bug preventing you from getting a recruit in a game where the entire gimmick is recruiting tons of characters and endgame content is locked behind having all recruits. And that's not even getting into the faggotass translation.
>>3463669And even with that there general quality of the story is completely amateur.
So the english translation is shit apparently but how's the french one?
>>3463725If it is like the spanish, it uses the english TL as a base rather than the JP.
>>3463725I'm 7ish hours in with jp voices and the english translation lives up to the word trannylation. While the main meaning is most of the time kept the same, they take a LOT of fucking liberties. I only know a little japanese, but Even I could tell that everything is fucking paraphrased at best and not translated.
>>3463727>>3463738Yeah I saw the steam thread, I know it's spiritual successor to suikoden but they didn't need to replicate the shitty translation too.I guess i'll wait a while for bugs to be fixed before playing and hopefully they translated from jp to french directly
Is the shark racing game actually fucked up? Half the time you can only turn one direction which can be the opposite of what you want. I actually stopped and alternated pressing left and right and it still only turned one direction.
>>3460800switch update when?
>>3463947reminder that they tied encounter rate to your frameratei don't think they have the technical expertise to fix the Switch version tbqh
>>3463952lmao what the fuck, I played on my main pc on 60 and on my shitty laptop at 30 but didn't notice it. But I guess it's not something you'll notice unless you are specifically looking for it. The encounters in general are a pain especially when you are backtracking after getting chests and shit. Wish it had a system that actually shows the enemies on the map so you can avoid them if you want. I unironically got slightly jump scared on my first encounter, by the sudden loud sound and black screen out of nowhere lmao.
>>3463979although to be fair to them, they did just release a patch today to fix the major issues on other platforms
>>3463984>they did just release a patch todayNot according to steam updates.
>>3464080i got a ps5 update, maybe it hasn't hit PC yet
what the fuck is this, why am I suddenly playing as the fucking nigger woman shaniqua now?
are you that desperate for (you)s?
no, I am unironically racist
>>3464094kek do they actually force you to play as her?
>>3464105i mean shes on the cover of the box
>>3464094>>3464105>>3464107You do campaigns for the other two 'heroes', main hero is still Tir without bandanna
>>3460800 99% of the discourse around this game seems to be about the localization.The game itself I find to be totally forgettable. There's nothing it does great or even close to great, and it's very rough around the edges, like it's barely held together by duct-tape.Probably gonna shelve it in the hopes it will get patched to at least be decent someday.
>>3464109Most of the other "campaigns" amount to about a single dungeon. This ain't no trinity sight
>>3460800It’s kino
why are mexicans like this
>>3464175Duels suck so hard in this game
10 hours in and I'm thinking about dropping this. unavoidable enemy encounters every 10 seconds, meh story so far, goody two shoes MC that has been done a million times, other characters aren't bad, but not super likeable either. The character recruitment mechanic is so fucking stupid, the characters join a fucking war where they risk their lives for the most retarded reasons. "Oh you brought me 20 wood, you must be a super reliable guy so I am willing to join your cause of which I have never heard of and am also willing to give my life for it." I can deal with a shit story if the characters have good chemistry, but this is where the game shoots itself in the foot by having so many characters, since most of them say around 1 sentence per mission/quest. This creates these weird scenes where only the mandatory characters speak and everyone else just stands there like a retard, maybe if you're lucky, one of them mutters one sentence. I might pick it back up again later, but it didn't leave that much of a good first impression on me
>>3460800QUESTION: How do I get Lugo to taunt and counter every turn on autobattle? This is what I have him setup with but he only either uses a healing item or does a basic attack.
>>3464336you wait for them to patch it
>>3464336i haven't touched battle plan stuff because the descriptions don't make a lot of sense to me
>>3464336I figured it out. You set him to use defense command.
What does dexterity do? Does it increase chance to hit? Crit rate? Dodge rate?
>>3464352dex is hit chance and maybe other stuffcrit chance is the little clover icon at the bottom of the stat list i thinkdodge is maybe the boot icon, but that might just be turn speedi don't think anyone really knows for certain on any of these though
>>3464341Unicorn overlord this is not. Just mash the attack option.
Ok what the fuck is up with the mole boss? Is it a coin flip? Because I've literally lost fifteen coin flips in a row if that's what it is. I just cannot hit it.
>>3464505For me the mole boss only ever went right once, otherwise he went left every single time so I had Iugo continue going for the left book every time.
>>3464505it's a little hard to notice, but when he isn't changing sides he goes straight down from his jump. When he is switching sides, you can see him going slightly to the center.
>>3464505You can kill him even if you miss most of the books anyway. I got them right like twice and won
yep, I'm deleting this shit from my pc
>>3464766How about deleting yourself from the world? Would save your parents a lot of trouble.
>Localizers gonna localizeGame dropped. Yoshitaka Murayama would roll in his grave. What a shame.
>>3464766the guy who translated this, also translated this
>>3464793Lmao fuck off troon
>>3460820Dropped it to Normal after dealing with that angel plus the knight giant boss fight. Couldn't keep up with that stupid back line beam attack. Couldn't get good because fuck me, that beam kills off or nearly kills off the spell casters and healers.
>>3464880I pretty much had Yusuke charging and Gar doing his double slice with boosted attack carry the weight for damage plus the kangaroo faggot. Backline was Nowa hitting a bit. Nigger girl just healed up with incences and quality herbs
>>3464793what about my post made you so angry?
Is it just me or do mages in general just suck in this game? They die so fast I swear.
>>3464913They do.Lower HP count, few attacks are targeting resistances in general and they are not restricted to back line, resistance does not get pumped as high as defense, and magic is not as effective offense wise to have multiple casters killing mobs and bosses.
man I thought this game was highly anticipated, didn't expect this general to be this dead
>>3465099Sadly the game isn't good.
>>3465099anons are still posting in the other thread
>>3465099I am 11 hours in. Got the castle last night before going to bed. I am enjoying the game thus far. My only real issues are that 1. it is too easy, even on hard difficulty, and 2. I'm quite digging the execution of the visuals, namely the environments. They look too clean, too plastic and shiny. Doesn't feel like the lived in world of the Suikoden games.Story wise, I was worried from the marketing that it was going to be a rehash of the Riou and Jowy story of S2, but thankfully Eiyuden seems to be doing its own thing. There aren't really many parallels between Riou/Jowy and Nowa/Seign.
>>3465099Official release was today for most people, also the game is not great. Like, it's not horrible, but it's not exciting in most regards. Even Suiko 4 had a stronger plot hook with a rune that did not fuck around and people dying in the first few hours. Leage states against sudden invasion was handled better in Suiko 2. Being someone truly involved and invested in the fuckery that goes on was better in 3 and 5. Cosmolgy and conspiracies were better in 1 and 2. Only think that has hooked me in Eiyuden more than previous games is the minigames. And it does not have some great QoL or far more refiend combat. So it's Suiko 1-5 safe redux. Not bad, but not exciting.
I got my little sister.
>>3465116>Story wise, I was worried from the marketing that it was going to be a rehash of the Riou and Jowy story of S2,I wish. You don't even get that. There is absolutely ZERO drama or conflict in this games story. None.
>>3465117I said this in the other thread but Seign absolutely should have been the main character. He's someone battle his own country and family legacy. He's the one with a motivation based on someone he lost telling him to hold his ideals high even if it put him into conflict with his country. He and his posse have the history and a small bit of chemistry and a goal to restore their country from it's own corruption. He's the one who has seen Yaelu lose her parents even after he promises to help her. Nowa is some buttinski who doesn't lose anything and is motivated because MEDDLING IS FUN! Even when his own village gets burned down it's all okay and nobody is hurt.
>>3465289nowa lost mom&pop
>>3465308Off camera before the game started and he almost NEVER even brings them up outside of like ONE instance when someone asked him about his family and he didn't really care.
>>3461395
>>3465326These are not Generals, people just like to talk about these games, and at least they have decency to keep it contained at one thread at a time. Unlike Fallout or Elder Scrolls fandom.
>>3465326But how does this affect you personally?
>>3465336They're not generals in name only but personally I don't mind them for the same reason as you
>>3465336>and at least they have decency to keep it contained at one thread at a time. Unlike Fallout or Elder Scrolls fandom.*Ahem* >>3461395
>>3465354>>3465357
Haha, this game is pretty sussy
>>3465378
>>3465378>>3465382>Enemy leader of rebellion army can just walk up to an enemy soldier in the town he just had to flee Absolutely ZERO tension
>>3465388When you go up to people in captured towns, they seem pretty ambivalent to it all.
>>3465338Nothing against it personally. Just calling out the contradictory retardation. They ARE Generals and that's ok. They aren't allowed, but the rule's not enforced because the Mods like them and/or don't care.
>>3465392There's a part where a town gets overrun by zombies and you can walk up to the zombie and talk to it and Nowa just goes something like>Boy this is probably dangerousAnd then you can go into any shop in the town and it's like nothing happened
It's pretty fun. I enjoy swapping characters around a lot, although they wildly vary in terms of power levels. These two feel like a crutch with their SP based party buff heal.The only major issue i have with the story is that it's too pg-12. You have some backdrop about brutality happening in the background, but it's never explicit.Pleasantly surprised that the second lead is not Jowy the backstabber, in fact he's like a complete opposite of him and joins your cause 20 hours in.
>>3465388It was literally the same in previous games.
Is there any way to heal EVERYONE or do I need to switch my fucking party in the base and sleep on rotation?
>>3465492Everyone in your party? If it's early game, you can get Healing Incense from the guy in the Mines. Later on, I'm sure there are better ways.
>>3465503No, I mean literally in town or base. Even the base inn only heals current party
>>3465492The latterit's for this reason the innkeeper is actually kinda awful to deal with
>>3465472>It was literally the same in previous games.
>>3465512Inns are the sole way to heal in town.
Reminder that the guaranteed way to win the cooking competition (pre-patch) is to go with Miso Soup, Omelet, and a Fried Egg.
>RNG item shop items
>>3465622So far, it's only for that one recipe at the beginning, right?
>>3465627Like 5 recipes and 2(3?) plays for the theater. I constantly have to stop by treefolk to see if one refreshed.
>>3465620When's the patch due? I want to try and rush the cooking shit while it's easy because it's a pain to play.
>>3465654I believe for PS4/PS5, it's out already. The only version that doesn't have a patch yet is Switch.
>got the elf for the rooftop scenei'm in
>>3465673Rooftop scene? What's all this?
>>3465654This was posted an hour ago:
>>3465685a scene with one of your teammates before the final battleseems to based on whoever you talked to the most
>>3465692Like in the castle? How's that tally? I barely have reason to chat up anyone who's not a shop/inn. Do you have to pick TALK for the latter? Am I just gonna have to stand in front of someone i like and press X 10000 times?
>>3465694i think you can change it by mashing X at someone
>get Leene as a guest character>Her stats are mystifyingly shit. The fuck is this?I have this to "look forward to" as the final character? Hey somebody tell me the one you actually recruit is better
>>3465718i benched her for the moment
>>3465720Fuck. Well at least her slot selection is god tier. But if I level 1 NG+ with her she's literally going to be dead weight.Maybe not. Hey have you used CJ's gold digger ability? Does it have a different steal table that's different then regular enemies drop tables? I might go back and see the answer to that question. Since depending on that question she might actually be great
>>3465723i only ever tried it against bosses and never saw it actually steal anything so i don't know
>can directly use support abilitiesHuh. Has that always been like this?>>3465730I've never stolen either which is what worries me. I'll give it a hard core testing though. On another topic, have you ever inflicted an actual status ailment on a boss? Debuffs work fine but I haven't been able to poison or stun literally anything.
FINALLY finished that godawful beyblade mini game. You where not worth it Reid. You were not worth any of this. Now I just need to wrap up cooking. God this game is a gigantic disappointment.
How do you progress with the Kurtz storyline, anyway? I just beat the fish chef.
>>3465803A new chef shows up every 10-15 minutes. You literally just have to wait, and there are so many chefs. It's so booooooring.
>>3465736>I'll give it a hard core testing though.I'm back and also doneAcross a few hundred theftsThe rate is low but is seemingly impacted by things like the luck bangle.The drops only appear to be what is in the enemy loot tables.you don't seem to get things yo usteal as drops in said loot tables.The stealing chance is not very good. I wasn't able to steal a single item from enemies that have them but I was able to steal artifacts and rune just fine. I don't know if bosses apply. The one in the ruenbarrow that has those two great accessories in it's drops if you fight it with 2 limiters off didn't drop anything after over 100 thefts.In short. The chest drop doesn't actually matter as the drop pool is seemingly the exact same.
>find unidentified thing>identify it>it's a pocket watch thing>says it's just for selling, get 7500 for it, sell it>go to desert>oh hi buddy I need a pocket watch before I join you
>>3465851You can get another from the random battles on the desert boat.
>>3465783What tops did you use? I got stuck at Thudd. I'm guessing I need endgame tops.
>>3465854Oh it's in a treasure chest battle. I should add.
>>3465855https://suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=15192Pawn Demon, Azhdahag, and Earth Dragon. I did swap Pawn for Azure Dragon against Crash.
fuck this retarded minigame>know I'm losing>no surrender option so I can retry
>>3465886All the mini games suck
Is there a list of beigoma NPCs the you can duel? Not the major sidequest beats but the people in locations that you can challenge.
>>3465542>Seeing a stray dog and some SODs being the only occupants leftFuck,, it really got to me.
>can't skip the credits>can only fast forward x3 during the backers listdon't try and finish the game if you have something important to do soon, anons
>>3465099I was going to get it but the localisation made me hold off, people are already working on a translation patch so now I'll just wait for that.
>>3465971The localization is the least of the games problem, friend. The story, even accounting for the bad translation is absolutely hollow. There's NOTHING to any of this plot or these characters. The actual gameplay side of things is a mess too. It's just, and it really makes me sad to say this, it's just kind of bad all around.
>>3465983Can't be worse than Suikoden 4 and I still enjoyed that.
>>3465984You know what, I'm gonna say it. IT'S WORSE THAN SUIKODEN 4. In Suikoden 4 my character at least had agency. There was at least the True Rune of FUCK YOU and a conflict with some stakes and tension. There was conflict between characters even if they were shit heads. This has NOTHING! It's worse than bad. IT'S BORING!
Finished Iron chef. Celia is cooler than Reid but still not cool enough to have put up with this godawful mini game. But that's it. That's everyone. No I can move on and just end this nightmare.
>>3466003Celia at least doesn't require you to hunt for toys and NPCs to play tops with, the cooking minigame has the courtesy to come to you.
>>3466010I have to admitI liked the card game. I wish it had a story line proper
>>3466026>All cards sold in one spot>Don't have to chase people around the globeI don't think I much cared for it but at the very list it wasn't a gigantic waste of time.
>>3466010>>3466003Celia also isn't complete dogshit in combat. She's made out of paper but comes baked with a massive attack value and a good team attack whilst having enough speed to actually dodged something if you invest all of your runes to that.
>>3466040I've worked with Mio for a bulk of the game. I can probably find use for her.
>>3466056>workedHo
>>3466056complete mio genocide
>>3465989>Saying Eiyuden is even worse than Suikoden 4I never thought it could get that bad...
>>3466086I mean it. I'm not happy about it but I mean it.
>>3465673Does this mean you can make the big titty kunoichi fall for you
>>3466138Obviously not, you stupid retard
>that last minute pullAlright so what's the bad ending?
>>3465984>>3465989I hate to say it, but I agree with this anon. I was thinking it last night, actually - Suikoden 4 is a far more competent game than Eiyuden, and it was an awful game.
>>3465989>>3466198I greatly disagree, mostly because I was able to enjoy this somewhat while S4 bored me to death
I enjoyed my time with it for what it's worth. But my desire to immediately slide into NG+ has been a bit dampened due to the atrocious balance. I. actually have a metric fuckton to say about that topic. But it's not as if I'd be bringing new shit to the table. I don't know what their battle director (or whoever was in charge of stat growths and MP costs) was doing. Because it clearly wasn't their job that they were doing.
>doesn't show stat growth on level up
>>3466298It shows it slowly unless you press button to skip it
So the tutorial told me the game got elemental weaknesses feature, but how do I know which enemy got specific element?
>>3466305How can I even do a reasonable before/after comparison that way?
Are there any missable characters in the game?I'd rather not have to play with a guide open, but at the same time it would suck if I accidentally miss recruiting a character because I progressed the main story too far or something like that.
>>34663631, technically 2. It's kind of hard to miss a character in this.You're not going to start major event and suddenly get locked out of 4 or 5 party members
>>3466314It's in the base' library.Everything in this game takes too long trying to be drawn out story bullshit. Game makes this clear pretty early; you'll walk 10 steps in a dungeon and get a cutscene, over and over. Instead of a 2 second animation displaying damage numbers the war battles take forever and can be won by moving forward. The cooking thing is 3x as long as it should be. A lot of the non-combat areas are overly large for no purpose.Aire is the best support. The movement bonus is way faster than dash boots or even stacks with it a bit.Major annoyance was having people forced into your party and not being able to equip them; and the castle blacksmith lagging behind until the very end.
>>3466367Who are the missable characters?
>>3466372Aleior. If you miss that you can't get the last character Leene who joins automatically upon recruiting the others.Aleior themselves are missable because Marisa needs to be in your party to recruit them and she has an event that takes place over a short-ish period of time where you can't recruit it. And if you haven't recruited it by then, you're locked out of the both of themThough speaking of LeeneHas anybody found a way to build her. Preferably at around the level 50 level. The free slots make it seem like she can do anything but that stat line means she's as squishy as Faye is and her growths make her useless anywhere before level 80 unless I'm missing some secret.
>>3466370>It's in the base' library.Well that fucking stupid.Feels like I'm bringing dead weight characters in my team because of this shit.
The worst thing i can say about the game is that it's too PG-12 for its own good. It could really use a bit of old Suikoden edge. MC's village should've been burned to the ground to give him a real motivation to act against the Empire.Although i'm pleasantly surprised that Seign is not Jowy 2.0. He's like a polar opposite.
>>3466040It feels really bad when you get her immediately after both Hakugin and Lam, both of whom are equal to or better than her in all stats at all times. Evasionwise, not only do both of them have the SPD of a Celia who is 20 levels higher than them, they also have Expert Evasion and Dodge. Technically Celia having Defend instead of Dodge is a plus since she has survivability against undodgable attacks, but she's also far more fragile than both of them to start with so it about evens out.Her runes are all unlocked which is a plus, and two of them are All Runes which is a big plus, but Hakugin's Shadow Clone is a god tier mob clearer and Lam's Transform is a phenominal boss killer, and at the point you recruit Celia there isn't really any great rune to put on her to make up for the other 2's fixed runes. She has a Passive rune slot over Hakugin but she either plays catchup on SPD and still ends up slower, or she pumps PWR to walk in Lam's shadow.She has range disadvantage of S compared to Hakigin's M and Lam's L so she can't even hide in the back to make up for her glass.
do you really need to min max for hardmode? just did the astrea + slaosha enforcer fight and had to turtle out a shitton of turns with garr before astrea diedbackline just instantly died in about two turns and just focused on the enforcer with the frontlinejust found out that the encounter rate is bugged as shit too with the fps, my party was around lvl 24 and wasnt sure if it was some stupid anti-grind mechanic in hard mode
>>3466430i think if you have at least a couple good characters on your team to balance out the dumb ones then you're finealso i think they just patched the fps bug a couple days ago
>>3466434playing on the gaymepass version since i wasnt sure i was going to like the game that much and the updates are delayed for it even though its on pcthe free characters that they push on me to bring along just suck, i might have to just bring the ones that have good stat growth and decent movesetsidk why francesca still has 97 hp while mellore has 140 at the same level
>>3466441You can place forced characters on the convoy slot. Also 1.04 is out for piracy to fix some of the more egregious shit like recruitment bugs and refresh rate encounters
>that weird pause before the victory screen when you've killed all enemies in a random encounter
>>3466415t. dastard
>>3466430>focused enforcerI don't know if hard mode is different but in regular mode it dies when Astrea does. Later boss is the same though in the underground version I had to kill both.
Why did this level of narcissism ever become allowed? Can you imagine every product having the names of every person remotely involved in its production?
>>3466543That is completely standard with kickstarter projects anon
The music is fairly good, but it is Naruke and Sakurabe.
>>3466625here's a music rip from the game some anon posted the other day if you want ithttps://mega.nz/folder/DUFSETaI#P7mt7GZ5nMvehne0WWTvlQ#25 best song btw
I want to literally teleport carrie into a goblin cave
Why are there so many shit characters? Outside of Garr who just has infinite defence and takes 1 damage from everything, if a character doesn't have 7 rune slots they're trash. Most 7 rune slot characters not only have 7 fucking slots, but insane stats.Game needs some serious balancing.
>>3466649Yusuke is my friend, my alibi, my accessory to the crime.
>>3466649some characters didn't take their vitamins like faye
>>3466657Momo (a mage with 7 rune slots) would beat him in a purely physical fight though. I have no idea what the developers were thinking with Momo. A tranny who is probably the best mage in the game and if magic wasn't so shit would be the best character in the game too.Milana is another 7 rune slot character who just has insane stats across the board.There are some characters who have literally nothing about them that makes them worth using, with several being flat out useless and I'm not even including mages here because they're all useless anyway.
I'm wondering what the hidden room on floor three of the castle will be used for. I'm assuming it will be DLC related since I have 120 people recruited and the only upgrade I have left is the last play and there has been no change in the room since I first ran into it. I think it started be accessible after the level three upgrade of the castle, but it may have been around sooner and I just didn't notice. It's on the far right side of the third floor, you can interact with a statue there and it lets you into a room with a bar, round table, fancy looking couch, a scarecrow, and some other random things laying around.
>>3466659>12really
>>3466675that's the secret brothel if you only recruit female companions
>>3466663>There are some characters who have literally nothing about them that makes them worth using, with several being flat out useless and I'm not even including mages here because they're all useless anyway.This has always been the case for Suikoden games though
>>3466697No it hasn't. And not like this.
>>3466697There are always tiers in Suiko games, but the vast majority can be saved through a decent rune set-up or their slots, a unite attack or being avaialble early/mid point to fulfill the role. Characters outclassed from the moment you get them with nothing unique are rare.Something like Mio? Mages outclassing tanks for front row? Runes and magic being bottom feeding 80%? I do not remember that bullshit
Someone explain this shit to me. Something has to be wrong here, or some characters are literally useless.Two characters with no equipment, same role (short range physical attacker).Iugo has superior stats in every single area. Some significantly more so (99 more hp, 51 more dexterity, 61 more defence, 69 more magic defence).Both have the same amount of rune slots, Iugo only has 3 available, a generic 3 star slot that can fit anything, and 2 slots that can fit 2 star passives. His unique rune is a decent attack that does more damage based on SP when using it.Galdorfs slots are a 2 star slot that has to have a hammer skill, 2 passive slots (2 stars each) and a generic 2 star slot.You can also recruit Iugo at the very start of the game while Galdorf comes much later.Iugo has a hero attack too, though you have to use a pretty bad archer to access it.The only thing Galdorf has that Iugo doesn't is he can equip better body armor (not that it matters, Iugos natural defence is so much higher Galdorf will always have lower defence) and Galdorf using a hammer type weapon will break armor when attacking.This is just an example of how bad the balance in the game is, but Galdorf is comically bad. There are mages with better defensive stats that him.I will however admit Iugo seems to be one of the better characters in the game.
>>3466705day of the mio is comingtrust the plan
>>3466709some characters are straight up useless because of their stat growths. they are a collectible basically.
>>3466709and Gundorf has Charge Up as his Defend which both raises defense and skyrockets the damage of his next attack, while Iugo has Taunting Counter which doesn't raise his defense, may possibly draw aggro, and might let him counterGundorf is a diet Yusuke, until level 70+ where Yusuke's PWR stops rising and Gundorf gets a massive buff
Mio really needed a kind of special defend option. Maybe some kind of Iado based counter move.
>>3466705The Suikoden games rarely had totally useless characters. Fair enough if you compare at them at the end of the game plenty are useless, but you get someone like Tuta very early on and he exists to fill character slots early while Georg is one of the last characters you can recruit. Tuta has a use early in the game while Galdorf literally never does.>>3466717It's a shame Galdorf doesn't have the stats to make use of charge. He gets no unique attacks and the hammer attack is trash (50% chance to miss).
>>3466723I would rather use a team of all squirrels in S2 than some of these fuckle chucks.
>>3466723>Fair enough if you compare at them at the end of the game plenty are useless, but you get someone like Tuta very early on and he exists to fill character slots early while Georg is one of the last characters you can recruit. Tuta has a use early in the game while Galdorf literally never does.Exactly my point>being avaialble early/mid point to fulfill the role
>>3466728But Iugo fills the same role as Galdorf and is available like 10 hours earlier in the game. I'm pretty sure Iugo is the first optional character you can recruit he is available that early. You cannot get Galdorf until after you get your castle though.Even if we take Galdorf having charge/armor breaking into account. Yusuke is another character available early with charge and can break armor, and he has better stats than Galdorf until the very end of the game.
>>3466734Yes, Iugo with no Charge Up totally fills the Charge Up attacker role that Galdorf fills. Right.
>>3466709Iugo has been a mainstay of my party from the moment I grabbed him. His only real downside is not having a damage mitigating defense move. Hell, he's my backup healer right now thanks to that universal slot after I switched Nowa from a Water to the higher tier Earth rune. I agree with you though. There are a lot of characters who are laughably bad even if you're not comparing them to the S Tiers.
>>3466734Dude, I agree with you.This is a first of having such obvious discrepancy/absolutely no niche.What the fuck are you actually parsing?
>>3466736Yusuke fills the charge/armor break up role, and he has superior stats to Galdorf until level 70+ and Yusuke is one of the first optional characters you can recruit.>>3466738Iugo is at least statistically the 3rd best character in the game overall. He is literally that good if you look at his stats only.The only characters with better stats are the beasts who take up 2 character slots as well, so you could say Iugo is the best character in terms of raw stats.
I mean, he's right.
>>3466702>>3466705Antonio. Kessler. Lester. Kamandol. Griffith. Morgan. Mose/Moose/Mace. Warren.
>>3466743he was, in fact, in the right all along
>>3466745You know what would have nice? IF WE EVER EVEN ACTUALLY SAW SOME OF THIS SO CALLED UNFAIR TECHNOLOGY!! Because seriously after 40 hours I still don't know or care why primal lenses matter.
>>3466743>>3466745>2007: runeputers everyone can use
Best characters areNowa + SeignReynaFrancesca + FalwardLeene has 7 perfect runeslots but stats are on the low side.Garr.
>>3466758Francesca is good? I cannot keep her alive if anything can target the backline at all
>Nowa is a powerful physical powerhouse, reliable single target damage and anti armor, can shit out all enemies aoe, a ton of slots to stack STR or get high tier runes, easily in top 5 of the characters if not top 3>Seign can't decide whether he wants to be a tank, physical or magical attacker so he's kinda mediocre as all 3, but has good abilities and a great attack with Nowa>Marisa sucks ass because she's a magic centric character in this game
Does anything in the game even use petrify? I think about 2 bosses each use paralysis or poison and even then they barely matter.
>>3466764my team has gotten rock hard before but i don't remember what did it
>>3466764adult cockatrice
>>3466762Combo with Falward, 3 sp to heal everyone basically full and give attack buff for 3 rounds. I have Falward use Light 4 to give attack buff and regen in first round. Only use 70 mp for a boss.
>>3466763i don't feel like marisa really added much to the game tbqh
>>3466762She's bad on her own. She has an insane combo with Falward.Falward is a fucking magical cannon for some reason. He has a railgun in his wand or something.
>Last 5 egg races give accessories>requires breeding dozens of eggsHope those are good.
>>3466772Oh, won one with 2517 (823/934/685/75) stat egg.Shell Egg Stone - Reduces all dmg types except aberrant conditions.You want to breed the terrain adaptations together, they actually combine and improve. Think the eggs always have 1 hazard strength and weakness but only up to B ranks so far.
>>3466709Not going to entirely disagree here, but you can get Galdorf right after the first war, which is not -that- far into the game.>>3466771I was pissed when I had to swap her out for Carrie in the Old Town, but she really could've been made a bit stronger...
>>3466198Suikoden 4 was gameplay wise back to the 1 and 2 formula, and the ship battles were a neat version of the army battle. It's biggest issue was that going anywhere took forever, because the boat was slow, once you had been somewhere though, you got Vivi relatively early so you could travel back quickly, but that first trek was always murder.
>Get all the characters>LOL I'M LUCKY AND WACKY!! Fuck you game. Leene is not important. This does not make Leene important. Leene is a non character.
what's at the top of the mystery room tower?
>>3466808They could have written anything at all, and they went with this. Fascinating. What an awful game.
>>3466758Seign kinda sucks assLam is incredible with her transformation rune and shares top PWR stats along with Iugo and NilMomo, Mellore and Milana share the top MGC stats at 99
Remember how Suikoden had that one blind lady who acted as a sort of witness to destiny and was the series connection to a stronger mystical side of things? SURE WISH WE HAD ONE OF THOSE HERE!
>>3466821>Primal Lenses are important because...they just are, okay?!>Your village was burned down and you even caught the guy who orchestrated it early on...I guess we're still fighting that war, even though the war could've effectively ended with his confession.
>>3466770I honestly wonder why she was even included among main characters. Perrielle is significantly more important in a large scale of things.
>>3466823Seriously it's amazing how long that guy just stood around doing nothing before escaping and then proceeding to do nothing.
>>3466819Seign is unfocused. But he makes for a solid buffslut tank.
Yeah. Of course. The actually cool character is one of the last to join.
>>3466709It doesn't matter even if you don't compare against Iugo. I've leveled everybody in my game constantly to be within each other up until I got to the very last dungeonThe vast majority of the characters in the game are bad for the vast majority of the game. Leon never gets good until arguably post game where he's still bad but at least "usable"I can list the characters with just terrible growth off of the top of my mind, Lian, Mio, Mihlu, Pohl, fucking Lakian, arguably Alwe, Kallathor, fucking Perielle, Galdorf, Riufan, Faye (!), Jorhan, Leon, Reid, Dr. Croque, Wyler, and Aoi. That's not a small amount of characters. Kuroto at least gets better before the end of the game.Why the fuck does Mellore's unique actions have such terrible accuracy. I stacked literally every fucking stat on her and used every combination of accessory at nearly every phase of the game and she still will miss half the hits on her unique 60 MP spell and sometimes all the hits on her 4 fucking SP skill. Max dex/luck with glasses/dex/luck? You're still missing hits on enemies inside the first fucking dungeon at level fucking 30.The guest characters aren't worst. And why does like every character come with junk runes not scaled for their recruitment level plus tier 1 resistances. Why is that like this?Why is evasion the way that it is? The game plays it up like it's a third pillar to the def, m.def paradigm but enemies with high evasion can also have usable defenses and characters like Perrielle whose defensive action to increase her evasion is literally a fucking taunt has low defense, magic defense, AND fucking agility. Why?
>>3466830Seign is thrown into multiple boss fights that even when blessing himself with a defense buff he has to be healed literally every single turn if the boss is attacking him or he dies.There's a boss I remember doing with him where he couldn't EVEN attack because if he didn't defend the boss would hit him three times in a row without fail and he dies. This is a fucking short range attacker. Meanwhile Kohgen is literally never bad and the nanosecond you get access to armor accessories you can turn him into a literal fucking immortal.Runes already influence a character more than ay stats ever could, so why is this like this? Why are all the hero attacks as bad as they are? Why is MP virtually unusable in progression dungeon dives due to being able to get at most 3 usable aoes at all phases of the game before tapping out. Why do some characters like Hakugin and Isha just have better on demand aoe that can, at mid game, be used more efficiently than magic ever could? Why does a character like Zabi have nearly no defense? Why don't formations do anything? It'd be one thing if aggro manipulation from Iugo and Perrielle (if you're stupid enough to use her, you prick) was effective at what it does, but nearly every boss that CAN attack the backrow WILL attack the back row, and the ones that CAN attack based on logic (low health/defense) WILL attack the mage until they fucking die. And this would be a problem, except the good characters are so incomprehensibly MORE good that you can literally snooze through all the content in the game with them.What jokes does Faye encompass to justify being the worst character in the game?
>antagonist has perfectly valid motivations and makes main characters look like a bunch of screaming apesLove this episode
>>3466835>Perielle stats chimping out and undermining peace talks before the bad guy has a chance to do anything bad
>>3466832At least Aoi's stats spike up after like level 60
>>3466835But you see, they made him look comically evil so you have a reason to hate him! Just look at the portrait with the crazy eyes!
>>3466835>valid motivationsList literally any example of even a scene of classism based on rune access. Because I looked and I found nothing.It's not in the history books. I've read them all. Twice>empire expands and kills lots of people>beastryn get oppressed for literally no reason>they revolt>while they're revolting and the empire is killing more of them, the empire attacks the peaceful elves for oilThis is this games empire framing that somehow influenced the justification of comiting widescale slaughter and war crimes. All for the advancement of humans who were already advancing, to the exclusion of Beastryn who fought alongside humans with no desire or indication of further harm or issue. Nothing he's doing has a reason backed by even the smallest amount of logic.It's analogous if Steven Hawking instead of of advancing the sciences by using the sciences, decided to advance the sciences by widescale unsanctioned human experimentation. We already know monsters can be born with, bred with, or spontaneously develop runestones. So why the fuck is he slaughtering villages? And fuck it, I still would be okay but they give him multiple villianous breakdowns. Why can't a villain be affable until their own death? They all have to have panic attacks the second shit stops going there way. >>3466839Just in time for the last dungeon of the game A shame then about her runeslots.
It's better Perielle has shit stats because she is constantly unavailable.
So who is MC's waifu, Lian or Perri?The game kinda flip flops between them
Yaelu's village and people needed to be a bigger deal than they were. People born with magic in them for free? Okay sure. That could probably drive someone mad with jelly. Except we only see them in that one place and they're barely important afterwards. Like seriously you couldn't come up with some crazy lore about how their magic asses used to be super mega influential and maybe caused a calamity that forced them to hide away? Or anything that might be interesting?
>Hakugin mogs Lian while 5 levels lower and I have given no accessoryI understand why Mio runs away from sparring too.Sad
>>3466848I don't even think it's like the case of Isha where her entire lineage was the result of human experimentation done by a mad man. They were virtually isolationists that got their shit kicked in for no reason. Rising's story may have not been very good, but the characters had actual strong motivations. Even the mad scientist whose literal only motivation was science. Isha's father disappeared searching for a way to free Isha from her internal runestone. CJ is there to find a big treasure for a trial that exists just for her to find what she really cares about. Garoo is there under blackmail to secure help for his daughter. Everything has a reason to happen founded in reasonability.Even the initially hostile elder only does what he does to dissuade Isha because he wants her to live as a normal girl before she passes away.I don't get how somebody who wrote simple reasonable things that have reasonable justifications like that could write this game.>>3466852Hakugin just gets to be one of the best characters in the game for free.Lam is one of the strongest attackers to by the way. When given her self buff, combined with her high defenses and comically high crit rate, certain rune combinations lets her casually kill entire bosses with a single crit.The games balance is the one thing seriously preventing me from hitting NG+. I was really excited when I found out how it works.
I was about to pick this game up when I stumbled upon the translation steam thread and saw a few screenshots in this thread and on /v/. Is there a re-translation patch in the works?
>>3466853I didn't play rising. CJ mentioned something about extending Isha's life when she signed up and I was like WAIT WHAT!? But my major point wasn't that they needed to do exactly what I said but that HH just omits so much important information that it's impossible to care even when something actually DOES happen. It's insane how lacking in motivation everyone is. Even when Nowa does confess why he meddles it's too little too late and just feels like fluff rather than a motivation.
>>3466856No. There's some AI shit but it's not going to be good enough. The translation in this game is good 70% of the time but the changes they make are retarded and you'll notice them even if you're playing in english with english dub. "Why the fuck does this read so poorly. Why the fuck is Liam THIS fucking annoying". "What the fuck is Carla saying?" "Why the fuck is Nowa shifting from constant surprise to calling men Prime Slabs of Beef". You'll also see a lot of idioms, sayings, and references to mostly burger culture, nursery rhymes, and memes. "Accept no substitutes", dumb out of character wordplay from characters that read terrible, whatever they did to Dijkstra, and some noteworthy things that aren't like the worst thing but still reads like complete shit.Marisa has a method of speaking but somebody randomly decided to punch her up with medieval speak. Poorly "'t'was adult dragon we be toast" We sure would have been, Marisa. We sure would have been.
Fuck rare drops and sparklestones
>>3466860The most baffling translation decision I've seen thus far is this shit, which doesn't even make any sense in the context it was used.
>>3466777Lol, fuck. After winning the accessory, the prize is now 'Accessory Lotto (18 Accessories)'.Keep in mind you can't just rerun these you have maybe 3 attempts after hours of breeding.
>>3466865What does even inherit? Since it seems like the play is just to get a perfect bird and then just use that as the foundation of racing after getting perfect skills.
>>3466864At a certain point I stopped screencapping the retarded reads.I don't know who the editor of this game was but he's an idiot.
>>3464324I mean, that's how Suikoden was. You got the important people who had some tie to the story, and a bunch of randos who joined you for sometimes decent reasons, sometimes because they were bloodthirsty lunatics and figured your side was good, or because you brought them a box of soap. At least the randos in this do get lines during scenes, I just got done with the village burning, and Yusuke, Iugo, the lion headed martial artist, and the magical girl have all had things to say during story scenes. Nothing huge, but they actually seem to exist, as opposed to standing next to the hero while everything goes down.
>>3466825Eiyuden was created with two main characters in mind, Nowa and Seign.Marisa got promoted to "main character" status shortly after the kickstarter ended. Almost entirely due to positive reception her design got.It's pretty damn obvious when you play the game, Marisa matters about as much as Garr and Mio do in the grand scheme of things.
I get that they were going for the grassroots totally normal guy approach for Nowa, but fuck me, 10 hours into this game, and I've gotten a new appreciation for the series standard of Suikoden MCs having this super special plot doohickey that turns them into goddamn demigods forced upon them.It actually helps tie them into the overarching plot far better and makes them play with more explicit stakes by actively involving them due to them being turned into a person of importance (they are the host of a true rune whether they like it or not). And gameplay wise, it makes the MC stand out from the others better too.Nowa really is a jackass that gets caught in the middle of things for no real reason or discernible motivations, and there's nothing unique about his gameplay aside from him just having better stats than most people.
>>3466875He get's to ride a dragon later so there's thatBut thee actual recruiting of Chandra kind of makes no sense. A new aspect just gets randomly imprinted into the world.
>>3466861Are you in the Dappled Forest?
>>3466856literally the first mod on nexus removes the chud line, the Mio gender line, and a lot of Lian's shitty retranslations and rick and morty reference
>>3466874Even Seign feels kind of like an afterthought at times. Which is all the more disappointing when his father is perhaps the single most pivotal reason the war ends.
>>3466881Sort of. Melridge does literally everything. The reason his father even has that information is due to Melridge sending out Valentin to get it into his hands. From the half of the game to the end, Melridge does literally everything and you're just the muscle doing the grunt work.
>>3466883The strategist being god isn't uncommon even in Suikoden but even then it was the MC who had the heavy plot connections. Even Mary Sue Zhuge Liang Lucretia didn't get in the way that it was the Prince who carried much of the plot. Seign is ultimately still the one with actual connections to major plot players and elements.
>>3466880soulless
>>3460800Can you still rename characters like in Suikoden? At least the main character?
>>3466880>rick and morty referenceAre fags still pushing that rub a dub dub is a rick and morty thing instead of a reference to a nursery rhyme Rub-a-dub-dub,Three men in a tub,And who do you think they be?The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker,And all of them out to sea. that was also previously used for shitpost translations of いただきます in anime as >Rub a dub dub, thanks for the grubbecause they're newfags and ESL retards? It was a retarded "localization" choice that was made and should never have happened, but the misattribution to some fag cartoon is just as faggy.
Hello I am king of the elves. It feels like there should have been a really interest episode or series of events in which you gain my friendship and allegiance but that might be engaging so I shall join you because someone did something off screen.
>>3466869You can hatch B rank from champion eggs.They all have 1 obstacle strength and weakness.Maybe 25% have a terrain adaptivity (it has a letter).Stats all cap at 1000. Balanced feeding doesn't actually waste points if it hits 1000, the points are still used in the other stats.Pretty sure stats are Acceleration, top speed, stamina and obstacle handling.They all have 9 max races and 6 feedings.After each race you can feed the egg and give it a selected stat bonus.You can breed 2 eggs that have 0 feedings remainingTwo same rank parents give a next rank offspring.Terrain adaptivity of parents combines and upgrades ranks.Obstacles are still just 1 random strength and weakness; parents don't matter.Stats are better than parent's before they were fed, and feeding seems to give more stats but that is probably purely from rank.
>>3466894Also you only inherit 1 skill at a time ever.
>>3466864Are we really regressing back to working designs level of garbage translations? I'll pass on this game until a fan re-translation patch comes out a few years from now.
>>3466894>Two same rank parents give a next rank offspring.Piss. I knew it was something like that.Max is S then, right? So 5 for an S plus an additional 1 everytime you want to make another.That's not that bad all things consideredThat means you could theoretically get there from C's if you're insane enough to spend the 2+ hours just racing
>>3466897The thing about working designs was that even if the pop culture shit was shit, they were still (usually) better than everybody else and they had taste enough to know what to bring over.There's no excuse now, because these translations are being compared against people who are actually good at their job now as opposed to shit like the rampant engrish in FFT.
Why did they turn Ymir into that passive aggressive asshole from accounting for the English dub/dialogue?He's a beleaguered bureaucrat sure, and he does insert snide comments here and there, but he's still a consummate professional in the Japanese dialogue. The English dialogue adds way more sarcasm, sass, insults and general unprofessionalism to him.He's supposed to be a no-fun-allowed desk jockey that's tired of everyone's shit, not the guy that actively makes it a point to be hated by everyone and get fired from his behaviour.
>>3466890That still makes it retarded.
>>3466879Yes. Took 28 encounters
>>3466856I refunded this game not even 10 minutes ago. The translation mod on nexus removes the most blatant stuff like the "chud" line and the rick and morty reference, but there's still a lot of terrible shit like >>3466864. Shame too because I was really looking forward to the game.
>>3466898The better feed is tied behind base upgrades.
>>3466903Yes, it does. I'm not arguing that it doesn't, just that the fags who keep going on about some garbage American cartoon instead of the general shitty and retarded localization choices are retards as well.
god the english script is shit, I can't stand Lian.I'm unironically playing with jp va and script but my reading speed isn't fast enough for some of the party convos bottom right
I heard the translators they got were some freelancers in Japan or whatever yeah?Some of these lines are genuinely crabstick tier at times
>>3466914Lead translator is Brian Gray, who's also notable for fucking up the Gunvolt translation to the point where the game had to be retranslated in its entirety. I'm not sure how he wasn't blacklisted from the industry for that.
>>3466917>Brian GrayAnother name added to the list. Thanks anon.
Seriously. Am I actually getting more emotional investment out of our tank breaking down than anything that has happened to an actual character?
why the fuck did they give euma a woman VA in eng, he sounds so different.just found out from watching a streamer play in en
Is there a list or something with the location of the primordial gear? I need it for reasons.
>>3466949Only primordial gear I've gotten are from Leene coming with a primordial scarf equipped in her head slot and there being a primordial robe in the last room of the undead castle when you can go to it as Nowa
>>3466954Sieg's dungeon has one, Elroad has one, I've looked in a few areas but haven't found one in snowpeak pass but I don't doubt there's one there too probably. Den of Dunes apparently has one, which probably means Chelonian Goliah, MIGHT has oneI'm looking for the regular armor and a shield. I know they must exist.They better.
A POWERFUL MONSTER IS AHEADGod this annoys me so much.Let me get the upgrade materials for my shit.
>Dr Beyblade has had a secret underground lab in the final dungeon this whole time and thinks now on my way to the end boss is when I want to play tops.
>>3466842>beastryn get oppressed for literally no reasonFurries do not exist, why should I give a single fuck about them?
>>3466959Pretty sure I got some from the underground boss rush.
>>3466890>>3466880>instead of a reference to a nursery rhymeIt isn't a reference to a rick and morty line. It is a translator in-joke, a reference to "rub a dub dub thanks for the grub." Still inexcusable but you have to specific about these things.
>>3466917A BIG ENDER ADAPT NAMED ZONDA
>>3466975>Note: Furries do not actually oppressed in any meaningful capacity and it's all mouth serviceI really have to wonder if that one dude's furry hate boner was something the dub added to make him seem like more of a bad guy.
>>3466973why would the final boss not be in the final dungeon
Glad they didn't lock a character behind the egg racing thing or I would go insane.
Top rewards for egg racing:Eggfoot Stone - 25 attack/magicMach Egg Stone - 30 speed, moderately increases evasionOdd Egg Stone - Increases critical hit rate and damage rangeFrost Egg Stone - Greatly increases resistance to all conditionsShell Egg Stone - Reduces all dmg types except for aberrant conditionsNot remotely worth doing. Stats cap out at 3000 total so S rank combined with fresh B will still cap out.
>>3466808>Fake Odessa doesn't die unless you fuck upgoddamnit
AlrightSomebody help me understand some thingsWhy does Leene have a shield? Even at max she's got untenably low base defense (and buff runes aren't multiplicative) and despite her rune availability her statline makes pumping 2-3 into a single offensive stat compulsory.I've been running through a hell of a lot of rune and gear combinations and I still don't get it.Am I not understanding how shield armor works? In practice she's still getting two tapped by bosses physical attacks. I thought I'd augment that with dodge but at 500 agility with all the evasion I can stuff into her she still gets hitA lotSomebody help me out here.
Just beat the game. It was bad. It was bad and I still don't understand why anything happened or was important! Why was the primal lens important? What did it do that other lens don't beyond some vague sense of power?Why was Narungarde important? Who was she working with and what for? You fight her in the end dungeon and just deuces? Are they trying to make her the next Yuber? Because Yuber at least did shit. What was Nil? Marisa mentions she found her in the barrows but it didn't pay off? Robots are just a thing evidently?
So many major events were lacking paying off or anything to give an emotional connection. The villains felt useless and anemic and weren't a threat at all. Now was still completely uninteresting as a main character with no personal connection of motivation? Why was Leene so damn important beyond showing up in a couple scenes and screaming LOL LUCKY! Am I supposed to think this is cute? Am I supposed to like Leene? Why wouldn't I be out trying to find her if she's my sister!? Why wasn't Seign's family focused on? I beat the game! I spent like 50 hours on it. Stuff happened but it doesn't feel like it really did! Why did the Dux even want power beyond saying it's not fair. Was he lacking in magical power? Did someone he cared for die from it? Did he ever witness magical oppression and is broken in a way that he became what he hated like he was Magneto or something?
>>3467027i think shields only reduce certain types of damagealso her base defense/magic defense at 99 is>130/130vs nowa>361/281i don't think 8 rune slots stacked with defense runes would save her
Good lord do the backer credits just go on
>>3467037There were robots and golems in the barrows in Rising so Nil made some sense to me, though I would have liked more backstory for her
>>3467037>What was Nil?a roomba
>>3467043I mean yeah, she's obviously a golem of some kind but you'd think a rune golem joining you on your quest to reclaim and fight over a primal lens rune might have more to add to the story than>You are my friend Marisa run robot hug dot exe
Are there any plans for them to update the translation? I can pick it up for 30$ but I don't want to support the "chud" crap and the other garbage in this localization.
>>3467106They haven't acknowledged the translation issues yet. Yetee fucked up the physical release of the game and R&B Studios has been busy apologizing to backers about that, so it'll probably be a while. I imagine their inbox is flooded at the moment.
>>3467041I know. I've been running through it. As Evasion literally might as well not function and cover mechanics are inconsistent as best and outright useless at worse, I don't know where her shield is meant to come in. You can run her as like a glass cannon and I'm doing that but it's rune intensive and more than a few units can serve in that function, better, without killing their defensive stats to do it. To the only exception that if you absolutely go all in she can hit absolutely outrageous peaks if buffed by another ally andActually fuck it, I'll just do that.Alright. I just did thatUnless I overlevel the final boss she's not going to be good enough to use because of her god awful statlines. And revolving the entire team around a glass cannon is woefully inadequate when compared to taking units that don't suffer this issue instead and do the same to vastly more damage, some of which are nigh immortal.An odd feeling, but this is probably enough for me to quit for now until they push a balance patch.
I finished the game and just noticed somethingthere's still a ??? listing in my boss list
Mio is actually pretty good late game, iai strike hits in the thousands
>>3467135Late game.Or post game.
>>3467021Perrielle's death scene is probably the best scene in the game, because something happens with actual consequence. Shame you're locked into the bad ending for it. Kind of reminds me of Suikoden V in a way... with Roy's death being one of the games better scenes, which also locks you into the bad ending.
>>3467037Marisa's DLC will probably at least "answer" the Nil thing, since it takes place before HH.Just don't expect a "good answer" however. Expect absolutely nothing. In fact be pleasantly surprised if the DLC ever actually comes out.
>>3467178Suikoden 5 at least had a lot of other scenes to make up for that one. Arshtat and Ferid's deaths are ones you can see a mile away and they still hurt like the dickens. Not to mention Sialeeds. In fact even just getting kicked out of your home gives the game a thousand times more pathos and agency and needing to rescue your sister was just extra personal motivation. This game is just..nothing. Perrielle really should have gotten Odessa'd.
>>3467210V really refined the "doomed hometown" trope to its best execution. I know that some people shit on V for huur duurrr super long intro/tutorial. But the length and immersion in the opening part is the whole goddamn point. You legitimately get attached to the hometown and parents of MC, because you're allowed to spend quite a bit of time with them and see them as fully fleshed out characters. So that when shit hit the fan and the whole kingdom saving adventure begins, you actually are on the same wavelength with MC because you truly give a shit about what he lost.
>>3467249Yeah, it did a good job of selling why you should care about this conflict without just aping Suikoden 2.
>>3467252Its not my favourite in overall conflict (I think the FILTHY FILTHY GODWINS are actually one of the sillier main villains in a Suikoden game), but I think V has my favourite MC in terms of overall stakes and personal involvement in the plot. And thats saying a lot since he technically didn't have any main rivals or personal enemies to push him along. Guy really just wanted to save his sister, bring peace to his kingdom and fuck his cute killer child soldier childhood friend.
>>3467249Even the far more brief introduction to part 1 went miles to establish something to latch onto. You understood Gremio's worry and Phan's loyalty issues. You didn't spend long with Ted but you understood he was your bro so when he asked what he did of you it felt like a big deal. In 2 you understood you friendship with Jowy and Nanami and even when you where hanging with the mercs you got to see a different side than the one you were used to. Fuck EVEN FUCKING 4 did a better job of setting up your friendships. Even Snowe, shit head that he was, was a better character than literally everyone in your party here. And I can't believe I wrote that sentence. But your relationship with Snowe is well define, has stakes and affects the plot in drastic ways.
If Lian was more like Nanami or Lyon, would you have likes her better?
>>3467263Don't you dare mention that whore Lian's name in the same sentence as those wonderful ladies.
>>3467256>>3467257I have to ask, how bad is Nowa exactly?
>>3467268start is pretty rough because you are just thrown in as him. overall he's not bad it just feels like he's kinda thrust into everything, right person in the right place at the right time.
>>3467268Generally inoffensive. He's a dumb himbo kind of nice guy.In a vacuum, there is nothing necessarily wrong with him. His main problem is his personal frienships with other characters and general importance to the stakes of the plot. From start till the end, he's really just kinda there.
>>3467268He's by all regular accounts a decent fellow, he's just pointless. There's nothing that ties him to the plot or makes him special. He's by his own account a meddler but suddenly we're supposed to accept him as the leader of the rebellion because Perielle says to. I don't really mind a hero who's altruistic simply because that's his nature but he doesn't have an purpose. He has no personal stakes in the war. No plot stakes. No true runs. He wasn't hurt by the war. Nobody he cares about was hurt by the war. He didn't promise anyone who died to carry out their legacy. Despite not being a silent protagonists he still feels more static than all the other heroes. I've already mentioned in detail several times why I feel like Seign would have been a better choice of a hero but Nowa like much everything else is just.... hollow.
>>3467269>>3467271>>3467273It beats me how Murayama fucked up this hard with him, this is more crushing to me than the localization shit.
>>3467274That's the thing. For as much as people go on about the translation the actual problem with the story is much deeper. The plot itself isn't actually there to poorly translate so you basically just get a bunch of wacky fluff dialogue as you go.
>>3467276Everything seems half-baked to me, I would compare it to an alien's attempt to make a Suikoden based on what some people say about it without going deeper into how it all worked together.
On some level I feel like I understand the desire to have a more "common" protagonist considering we've done nobles, royalty and sons of famous generals. But then you realize there's sort of reason for that to be the case. Being someone less common but younger does give the potential for development and growth while still being able to function as a rallying symbol. But even then it would still be possible to have the hero be a normal person if he at least had SOMETHING. A true rune would be the perfect connection. It's not just the symbol but it gives him a tie to the conflict. It gives it a conflict. The old games were as just about the true runes as much as they were the actual political side of things. But even if that wasn't in the cards then at least let there be something, anything that gives him a personal motivation. The Flame Champion in 3 is a more engaging character and he's not actually in the game.
>>3467288They should've killed off Nowa's sister. At least that gives him a reason to give a shit and be there.
>>3467257>Even Snowe, shit head that he was, was a better character than literally everyone in your party here. And I can't believe I wrote that sentence. But your relationship with Snowe is well define, has stakes and affects the plot in drastic ways.I have extremely difficult time believing that, anon.
>>3467290Snowe was a downright bitchboy, but it's clear why he's a bitchboy and why he ends up changing at the end.>>3467288This isn't exactly about the protagonist, but replaying Suikoden 2 and seeing Jowy's reaction and comments to the atrocities you witness did a lot to make the story work for me.
>>3467273I just realized.>Prince inherented all the Falenan beautiful sex genes and got that flowing pale hair>Lym, the actual inheritor of the throne, got Ferid's barbarian genes and was a plain looking gremlinMaybe the Queendom should've turned into a Kingdom that generation.
>>3467289Hell if she died early on then you could go ahead and have the complete recruitment reward be her getting resurrected Gremio style. Have the whole town massacre matter. >>3467290Snowe had a consistent and well defined character and arc. He was a stupid retard backstabbing fuckwad, but he was a stupid retard backstabbing fuckwad intentionally by the writers. That's an arc. That's a personality. He's a dumb nepotism baby in over his head and it messes everything up for everyone and by recruiting the 108 and forgiving him you're playing into the themes of the Rune of Punishment (And Forgiveness.)
>>3467295There's concept art of Lym with hair like yours and her mother but given her Ferid's color does add a bit more variety. >>3467292>This isn't exactly about the protagonist, but replaying Suikoden 2 and seeing Jowy's reaction and comments to the atrocities you witness did a lot to make the story work for me.Everything about and with Pilika was heart wrenching.
>>3467131i think i found the answer to my question
>>3467299Yeah, and Suikoden 2 had a way with being incredibly brutal. I understood why Jowy did what he did, truly.>TFW you go to buy something and you can see Toto Village being a blackened pile of rubble well before you reach the village
>>3467297>Rune of Punishment was actually in truth, the Rune of Atonement.>Unlocking its true power needs you to have gone through all sorts of miserable shit, but still maintain the strength of heart to rise above it all and be the bigger man to all those that wronged you.IV was wonky in a lot of things, but this was kino. Makes me wonder about the repercussions though. The RoP is probably the true rune that has the highest kill count. And now he can use that power without drawbacks. He's gonna be a person of interest for lots of major powers now. Plus, he actually has plenty of reason to want to stay the host since him dying would set the rune free once more, back into its Punishment phase too to cause a mass sacrifice cycle again. Makes me think he just became a pseudo immortal recluse after the events of IV for the sake of the world.
Man playing this so close to Unicorn Overlord. I remember in those threads the regular consensus was that Alain was pretty bland. And I don't think that's a wrong statement, but as is germane to the topic at hand he that actually had a purpose in his game. It was his cause. His kingdom. His dead parent. His friends felt more genuine to him and while not terribly exciting he was pretty functional.
>>3467308>Makes me think he just became a pseudo immortal recluse after the events of IV for the sake of the world.Well if you import a save you actually can recruit him in Tactics. Which was pretty cool. He's hilariously overpowered. For the time being he seems pretty content to chill on that island he was original exiled too but is quick to help out. I like to think he got with that cute elf that was sweet on him.
Finally finished that stupid faggot Reid's line and recruited him. Some random furnigger in my HQ that I needed to beat to challenge Crash was harder than him. Pathetic. Fuck this entire minigame.
>>3467301guess you're not allowed to use tard teams for this fight
An update for people who probably don't careIt's not that evasion doesn't work, it does, it's that a significant amount of attacks in the game are "skills" even if they look like regular attacks, and a lot of those "skills" bypass evasion outright.The only thing you're avoiding naturally are regular attacks and there's a surprisingly small number of those amongst most bosses and a good deal of enemies. In other words, if you want to use Perrielle before end game, you absolute buffoon, you would have to wait until you got an ability to raise all of her resistances to help soak the damage she's going to receive that will completely bypass her evasion and primary function. So basically only after you got CJ and can farm the super golem.Taunt also seemingly doesn't work anywhere near strong enough to matter. You're more likely to get bosses to attack you by using taunt one turn and then having that character cast an aoe heal the next turn.In regards to Leene, if you dump literally all possible damage you can stack enough SP conversions to give her 240 defense and magic at the cost of not pumping (and therefore having absolutely terrible attack). Whilst getting her attack to a usable level without just having raw levels isn't possible without overleveling.For stealing, item drops are ONLY enemy drop pools. I have stolen from literally every single enemy I was able to (excluding bosses) and have only ever gotten items that enemy can drop. It's harder to steal an item that it is to just equip the luck accessory and have it drop normally.For squishier characters, unless you can pump their defenses to the attribute of tanky characters they can and will just die to a single turn of pressure. Bosses that can double aoe can outright slaughter all of them at once.>>3467321Oof. Given it also has 3 attacks in a row, using the spell that stops damage once won't save you.
>>3467325I have used nearly every single hero attack a dozen or so times and the vast majority feel useless. As in actually useless. They should probably be doing damage relative to their stats and then a modifier on top given the resources but it feels like they're doing a fraction of their combined totals which then gets a modifier. Some attacks are awkward. The support cavalry charge you can call in consistently does 0 damage twice with 2 of it's hits and I don't understand why that is. Mellore can use the best glasses in the game for accuracy with dex/mag/speed/luck turbo pumped and STILL miss hits in her unique skills against vastly inferior enemies so I'm pretty sure the accuracy formula for those are just broken.I went ahead and went through the majority of all drop tables as well. You can get some tier 2 spells early, but there's no saving bad units early on. There's no hidden fight you can do, gear you can buy, runes you can equip, or spells you can use to salvage characters that only get saved by levels. The stat curve actually is just that important. There's no system mastery you can flex to get around that.Hmm. This bugs me a bit more than it really should.
>>3467335I'm still not sure if hero unites are doing one flat sum or a multiple hits. Like say you use Nowa and Lian's. She hits and the number 200 or whatever pops up and when Now hits you see another 250. Does that mean it did 200+250 or just 250. I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass just for an example, mind. I forget what my last usage's actual damage values were.
>>3467339The latter.Also I talk about stat curves and you can look them up but they do not save every character, not even close. At the point that Rune's start to even attempt to bring characters in line Rune slots start to matter more. So while Carrie does get her unique SP skills that are all too fucking expensive for what they are she has only 2 slots for customization, has next to no health, and her only defensive action is dodge which might as well not even fucking exist.Then there's the perma shits that take a roster slot but will NEVER be good like Corque, Reid, and FayeAnd just now I've fully parsed why it bugs me. It's not that there are bad characters. Suikoden isn't rare for those. It's just how MANY characters are bad, how bad they are, how long they're bad, and how little you have to control that. For all that they were promised to be, runes do fucking nothing for most of the game. There are characters whose only rune slot for 40 levels is a 2 rarity weapon slot which means they literally can't put anything else there at all. Magic being incomprehensibly balanced is one of the things I can't believe made it to release. And from what I've read (and later saw because I didn't believe what I was reading) backers told them beforehand that the balance was THIS bad and is STILL shipped this way. Even the barest amount of playtesting by the battle planner would have revealed any of these points of contentions well before they even went gold. What the hell happened?Damn it. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that this might be one of the worst balanced RPGs I've played in the last decade. And believe you me I'm really fucking scraping my noggin thinking of replacements without crossing genres.I finally know what I'm feeling. I now see what that anon was talking about. It's like when we finally got off the fucking boat in Berserk only to realize that Miura lost nearly all of his narrative prose and the sharp edge that made his stories compelling.
>>3467355Even magic ITEMS are horrible. I don't know if they scale with stats at all but I used a Lvl 5 Fire Rune shard I picked up somewhere I wasn't paying attention to and it was just slightly weaker than a non critical regular attack. > It's like when we finally got off the fucking boat in Berserk only to realize that Miura lost nearly all of his narrative prose and the sharp edge that made his stories compelling.What a depressing yet apt metaphor.
>>3467276Rewritten "translations" are almost never a problem of the story, it's a problem that chiefly concerns characterization.
>>3467365Perhaps, but the thing is that they're not really changing moments of characters in situations where they're being insightful or dramatic. Lian isn't breaking situations where characters need to introspective. There's no moment of pathos being deflated by an inane retranslation. There simply just aren't any character moments. Most of the story plays out like>Boy that Dux sure is bad we better stop him. And then the Dux does something impotent and non threatening and our party is>Boy we sure showed that Dux. Nobody has to face the killer of their village/loved ones. Nobody has to deal with a friends betrayal. Nobody questions their loyalty except maybe like two guys who get about a minute of screen time in the 2nd to last war battle. See what I mean. Be it either plot or characterization there needs to be an actual moment where some one does something to reflect that.
>>3467360The damage I can live with. The healing ones have a quirk where they're slower than using a regular item despite taking more space and healing less. And I don't know why that's the way that it is. I can get it for an offensive ability. But Healing Wave tanking action speed to the point where even my fastest character can, boss depending, be nuked to after the bosses turn, thus removing the point of even trying to heal incoming damage? That fucking sucks.
>>3467292The problem wasn't that he was a bitchboy. The issue is that post-exile, the plot becomes barebones that Snowe finally realizing that he is a bitchboy kinda ended having a meh payoff.
>>3467422It was perhaps imperfect but it at least had an arc. You confront him multiple times. You see him put in positions he can't handle fuck up and there are consequences. By the time you finally recruit him he went from a Retard with small power to a retard with lots of power to a retard destroyed by his own retardation to finally a retard who's sorry he was a retard. And please do keep in mind that nobody is really saying any of this was especially GOOD we're just point out that the basic attempt minimum is there. Which is more than we can say of Eiyuden. Suikoden IV got a bad grade on the assignment. Eiyuden didn't even turn the assignment in.
I wish Dux were more ruthless but maybe it was just that hard to top a villain who isn't afraid of razing villages and slaughtering people like pigs.
>>3467432You're never gonna top Luca in terms of animal brutality but there were a lot of ways they could have gone.
You know, localization is such an easy racket.>This guy is a cook>Run script thought MTL, just add random food references to whatever point was made.Poor Kurtz
>>3467443>Poor KurtzHe gets his waifu double pregnant. Though they also seem to kind of forget part way through the cooking story that his first kid is dead but hey they said cute couple pet names to each other.
>>3467443I didn't run through those in Japanese because I was busy skipping themSo there is still an off chance that the shit puns were true to the original script in the way the bakugan one was
>>3467451Believe me, they are not.>よろしくお願いします>Music to my stomach
>>3467455What the actual fuckFuck me, this team fucking sucks.
>>3467458Like, they take generic greetings and switch them to 'what would this profession make a pun/reference about' most of the time.Some like Yugioh and Beyblade guys have the references themselves.But you have the 'cool cook' who speaks mostly formal like exclaim 'holy bologna'
Huh, there's a bad end route for this? How do I avoid/get it? Is it having all recruitable characters before a certain point of the story like in Suikoden 1?
>>3467464Just recruit all characters, yeah. 119 to get the 120thOnly 1 is misable, apparently
Are people...mostly just doomposting or not comparing between the glowing reviews and these threads?
>>3467470It's got a "mostly positive" 77% rating on steam, which isn't amazingMost of the reviews are citing the bad localization though, I do think the game itself is pretty good just not perfect
>>3460800Why is the translation so shitty?I just started playing and am already noticing stuff like "ganbatte" being omitted and translated as "jingle jingle" or ユンカース being a fucking French name (Janquis) when it's supposed to be German (Junkers).
I havent even left the starting town after the prologue and am already having trouble picking who to use. Which party members are useless?
>>3467482low defense = useless
>>3467482Yusuke and Iugo will be your bros for the longest, Yusuke especially. Magic in this game sucks, don't bother but if you really have to the Doctor is your best bet early on.
>>3467482Take Yusuke in and don't look back.
>>3467482Yusuke and Wolf boy frontline are the safest bets for a loooong time.
This game fucking sucks lmfao
What the fuck is that painting lmao
>>3467485>really want to keep francesca for her combo with the doctor>enemy sneezes in her general direction and she dieskek
this will be hard for you to unsee but the enemy designs were all made by vore-artists, it also explains all the focus on food and favorite foods/cooking
>>3467532Was there a kickstarter tier for having a painting in the game?Real question - Does underpowered magic and useless team attacks make this game bad enough not to play and enjoy? Should you wait for a fan balance patch or just play the game?
Moving the text box around is really fucking annoying for actually reading it.
>>3467532>>3467592Yeah, it's a kickstarter backer. If I remember correctly, you can talk to the painting and see the backer's actual name.
Lan is so obscenely broken, what the fuck lmao
>>3467690>Within 30 mins of wandering around after getting the Hasshin mission, I can have Garr, Yusuke, Lam and Hakugin in the partySudden powerlevel boost
If you think this was bad you should try the new SaGa. At least they are consistently the worst games ever created.
>>3467722I like both.
>>3467482Mages and low defense characters are shit. I was this anon here >>3464880 because I wanted to use mages and wizards so I just said "fuck it, I'll drop it to normal" and regretted doing that because I still ended up benching mages and wizards anyway on normal because physical attackers with decent defense are still great (looking at you Lian and Mio).
I wish the game was less silly.I'm fine with humor, but not if it's added in a poor way by adding a quirky autist like Lian.
>>3467828To be fair, Nanami was also like that in Suikoden 2 and Lian did remind me of her. Nanami however did realize that S2 MC ended up getting pushed with responsibilities that are way too much for a kid plus she didn't really wanna see S2 MC/Riou and Jowy fight to the death.
>>3467828at least she completed the transformation into nanami by the end
>after crab boss fight>saw something sparckling in room>accidentaly pick plot item and teleport>do boss again quickly>pick sparckling item>harlan's underwearFuck you
God I hate Euma so much and I wish I could fuck Perry in front of him and force him to watch like the pathetic cuck bitch he is
>>3467592>>3467472It's because most people are shit eaters like this guy >>3467472They don't care that the story is terribly written (setting aside localization) or that the combat system is broken.I'm guessing as far as story is concerned, as long as none of the characters they self insert as does anything uncool/cowardly, acts annoying/is a jerk, or does something particularly morally wrong without clearly indicating they are a bad person several times then they figure it's good enough for them because they aren't really paying attention anyway.Combat is passable for them as long as it doesn't require them to look any from whatever other content they are consuming while playing the game, it's pretty typical for jrpg combat to be braindead and magic to become useless compared to attacking in the late game (at least this is the trend for older ones). Somewhat rare for a modern rpg to be this broken as EC from the start though, but I'll admit most jrpgs I've played lately are at least 5-8 years old.
Whoops meant quote >>3467470 for>>3467908Shiteater = >>3467472 "pretty good".
Nowa would feel like a much better character if they gave you the ability to respond to people. when you get your castle you should have the ability to just adopt the mantle of the commander and just say "its mine now Perry can't have it back" or be able to constantly say "temporary commander" every time someone calls you commander.Every response but the first one feels like its the wrong answer like the ability to choose between top or bottom was an after thought.
>Get some underground area in the castle>Try it out>First fight gives all my characters +20 levelsOops. Now I'm mid 60s and will probably stomp the rest of the game.
>>3467961i did that and can confirm you get very little exp from main story fights the rest of the gamethat's actually where the one piece of post game content is. I don't know why they let you unlock it so early.
>>3467967Even worse is I already recruited the character who passively trains characters you're not using, so now they're all level 50+ as well.
why is Mio so fucking SHIT ? her normal attack literally do less damage than Francesca's or any other mage for that matter.
>>3467690The more funny thing is that there's never a period of time where she falls off due until like post game where Rune's can make other characters better at alpha striking.>>3468006Because of her stat growth curve. She catches up at like level 70This character that is in your party at the start of the game has to wait until after the game is over to be usefulI'd have been pretty sad if Charna was also bad until post game.
>>3467470The glowing reviews quite frankly depress and vex me. I know people are desperate for a suikoden but this is just insane. I've looked over the reddit and it's the biggest den of sycophancy and blind fanboyism I've seen.
>>3467592>Does underpowered magic and useless team attacks make this game bad enough not to play and enjoy?No. But combined with the poor story, bad mini games, retarded translation and lack of any endearing character whatsoever then yes.
>>3468036...I like the minigames.But yeah.
>>3468006>>3468031I don't quite understand why they made some characters have really late stat growth considering the last bit of unique content in the game seems to be at level 80
>>3465472You literally forced away from the cities in Suikoden 1 because you are a fugitive
>>3467908Does the game have any over the top skill with cut-in and shit?
>>3466904It's counter-intuitive, but you could've gotten the Lucky Badge from the Seaside Cavern, then tried for the Sparklestone item.
>>3466889You can't rename characters, everyone has their assigned name already. When you get to the Castle, you get a random selection of names to cycle through as opposed to putting in a custom name.
>>3468081With cut-ins? No.Mellore, Carrie, and Momo have a magical girl thingOne of the shark has like a jaw's parody for an attackMost of the other ones are rather visually unspectacular.The full mage combo is also visually interesting.
>>3467339>>3467355Some people and myself brought this up in the Discord and it went on deaf ears. To this day, if you have Nowa and Lian in the back row, you are absolutely NOT using their Hero combo attack, despite both of them being M.
>>3468081>>3468096https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YrSI1CRN24
>>3468032Remember Anon, most people who got access to this invested their money into it ahead of time, so there's going to be a bit of sunk cost fallacy going on.>>3467889No idea what this does, but I thought that the sparkling item would be the letter and turns out that it wasn't.
>>3468102>Remember Anon, most people who got access to this invested their money into it ahead of time, so there's going to be a bit of sunk cost fallacy going on.I was a baker and that's all the more reason I'm unhappy.
>>3468103Same here, I'm going around trying to grab characters before proceeding with the next part of the game and it feels like this easily needed another six months to a year in the oven at least.
>>34681017 minutes and nothing really impressive is pretty girm especially for a game delayed for 2 years
>>3468081Sharkbro has a flashy animation where he swims under the sand before attacking the enemyIt even replaces the battle theme with the usual "incoming shark" music
>>3468104I don't really get how game design works. I'm sure it's complicated. But the KS was announced almost four years ago and over funded almost instantly. I really have to ask what was even going on with the development.
Why did they advertise the black girl as a main character? She has less relevancy than at least 2 other female characters. Maybe 3.Also really fucking shit gameplay wise. She's basically a buff monkey and there are buff monkeys that can deal damage too.
>>3468112Given that she's on the cover, you would think that she would've showed up earlier in the game, but clearly some American thought that having a black character on the front would boost sales or something.
>>3468143>>3468112I see her in every fucking thumbnail
I have to say, after Unicorn Overlord this is painful to play. I don't remember how the quality of life was in the original games, but i distinctly remember menuing being snappy as fuck in Suiko2. Here it feels all menus have artificial lag.
>>3468112>Why did they advertise the black girl as a main characterThe same reason like many things. Marketing. Average person think she'll be an important character but she's actually pretty minor
>>3468151>after Unicorn Overlord tthat game was boring as shit
>>3468112She has the issues literally every character with "balanced" STR/MAG has. You need to use an elemental buff (ideally wind) to have her do damage. But that elemental buff is usable 2-10 times (depending on how far you're grinding) before you run out of juice. Which to be fair is far more than Leon has at nearly every point in the game, and Leon doesn't EVEN get a good enough attack for his troubles.Aleior semi suffers from this too but at least has workable strength and defenses. It's team combo with her also sucks in comparison to Charna's with Nowa where theirs bypasses armor as well as having a decent multiplayer making using it actually worthwhile. A rarity for team attacks. Her defenses are quite bad but that's not a unique thing.Some aspects about her character were kind of lackluster>"I don't care if we all die, we have to defend our town"Honestly. That kind of passion could be accepted if the writing/translation and framing were better. But I'd be lying if I said if they were going to use anybody as a Guardian for 1 of our 3, I'd have rather it been Wayve or Zantetsuken stand-in>>3468151The menus DO have artificial lag. This and Rise of Ronin stupidly put menu transition time for no reason and I don't know how that got settled on. Even internal playtesting would show how miserable that is. Have you leveled up every weapon? I have, it takes forever. Have you ever had to identify 20+ artifacts from 15 minutes in a dungeon? I have, it takes forever. Have you ever had to throw away 20+ artifacts from 15 minutes in a dungeon? I have, it takes forever. Then there's the basic things like switching to battle plan, checking on what runes you've unlocked, and other things that take more time than they should and start to fucking add up.I'm serious. Any playtesting at all should have revealed these issues. This particular aspect above all else is awful.
>>3468161I'm about to finish the cooking minigame and i just turned auto fire button for my controller and left the game idle for 10 minutes because of how fucking slow the text transitions and all pointless animations are.
>>3468112I brought it up before but I was wondering if at any point in development they were considering doing a S3 style trinity sight system. Where you'd get to play the other heroes in more depth. Like you'd get to see more of Seign in his home town on his own missions or stuff with Marissa in the barrows doing guardian shit like how they discovered Nil.
>>3468154that made me avoid the game instead, tired of them piushing that shit
>>3468154The thing is even if she is MINOR the game does want us to think she's important. She gets the solo mission against not-Neclord and even in the final dungeon she's tagging along getting into the group duel and screaming like she matters.
>>3468171pushing what?
>>3468112Not the first time ive seen a non important character on the front cover of the art. she has nice design they probably just wanted to show it off
>>3468178There's a difference between being in a group collage and being one of the focal characters
>>3468171Don't be an idiot.
>>3468182come on dude lilina is front and center likes shes relevant at all
>>3468186>Default love interest for heroIs at least something than the all of nothing Marisa has.
>>3468189Thats not Cecilia
>>3468170In general, it feels like a lot of story got on the chopping block. I expected at least a second duel with Seign before he joins. Instead he just.. backstabs his own only making his next mission more dangerous.
>>3468193Yea the duel with Seign was really well done and I expected like a Joel thing where we are on opposing sides for most of the game.Then bam
>>3468193It just feels strange because despite the story feeling like it's missing huge chunks, it's also still kind of a long game. Not so massive but still long enough to where there was plenty of time to explore more crucial events.
>get to pivotal scene>game freezesSwitch version is irredeemable trash
>>3468216why didnt you wait for the update?
>>3468220Why didn't they make a game that works!?
>>3468220>>3468224The real question is why did I change my backer copy from PC to Switch.
>>3468170This game desperately needed S3's system. It is hard to care about any of the characters from the other two team. I think they really fucked up doing the story like this and didn't use S3's system. Beating the game just feels meh.
>>3468224we do not live in an ideal world its smart to wait for that first patch especially on a switch port
Speaking of switch patches. Did Bloodstained's switch port ever become worthwhile?
>>3468234I mean its playable but still no reason to play it on switch if you have any other option
>>3468220To switch 2?
>Euma actually thinks Perrielle would visit your room in the middle of the nightWhy is he such a cuck?
>>3468250He has no interest in her, both of them are stating they are not particularly closeYou, on the other hand, has been in Perri's sights 3 minutes into the game
>>3468256I'd fuck the shit out of Perry
Speaking of Perry>Does her heroic sacrifice>Villain just lets her walk out the front doorI laughed for like 10 minutes at how dumb that entire sequence was
>>3468282Why did they make this E10? What sucks is that there are fragments of an awesome story here, but it's gotten muddled.
>>3468282I mean, he wasn't wrong, she didn't achieve anything after that, it was all Nowa.
>>3468282It was so bizarre. Like they had a perfect chance to set up a nice moment of genuine sincerity show she's committed to her stance and give the hero motivation. >>3468285Suikoden 1 was KA and Odessa still got murdered.
>>3468288>and give the hero motivationThe razing of his village for disinfo is good enough, no reason he should feel particularly bad about the random noblewoman that is crushing on him.
>>3468285If you want to get it PG then have him throw her in jail or something.So baffling
>>3468292>The razing of his village for disinfo is good enoughNo one died so whatever
>>3468296deaths doesn't make everything better, there's enough motivation for the MC to want to stand up.
>>3468292>The razing of his village for disinfo is good enough,It might have been if the village actually suffered some consequences from it. >>3468298Death doesn't make things better but a lack of death often makes things feel like they're not real. Like nothings at stake. This game feels neutered and safe like they were terrified to do anything that might make people feel uncomfortable.
>Your loyal retainer, bodyguard, butler and dadmom gets devoured by man eating spoors.>Rated Kids to Adults.
>>3468285so the kids can enjoy it :^)
Lenses are such a ridiculous downgrade compared to runes it's fucking impressive
>>3468282I was sure I misunderstood the scene when I first got to it because the idea of the villain just letting her go like that seemed too stupid to possibly be real.
>>3468310Like seriously it makes ZERO sense. Even if you wanted to chicken out of killing her for real why not let the villain take her prisoner. Maybe everyone thinks she's dead, maybe anything. It's just so dumb.
>>3468305The only interesting boss fight in the entire game.
>Oh did you want a cool mysterious sexy sorceress rune mistress like in Suikoden?>too bad have some retarded faggot with a shitty name.
>>3468326At least there's Cassandra. No idea why Viki had to become a tsundere though.
>>3468323>threw her cup and 1hko'd IshaOne of the few kino moments in this game.
>>3468327I feel like Cassandra was meant to be the EC version of Leona from 2 but while Leona had some plot relevance early on to feel like she kind of mattered Cassandra and her storage sidekick had less focus than regular shopkeeps.
>>3468327Cassandra is a light in the darkness at how much the dumb teleport lines make me chuckle
>>3468326Lame for the all attempts at aping Suikoden we couldn't get not (proper) Jeane, but I guess it would be considered "too risky" now
>>3468333So many of the regular recruits were just really lame.
Elektra is one of the coolest battle units but she's one of the last units you get so what's the fucking point man
>>3468342I would have liked to use her in my team but by the time you get her the game is over and I don't feel like building her up. At that point I just threw on all my enemy repel shit and sped through the final dungeon.
Me and my buff waifu. I think this scene is triggered with the character you fought most battles together.
>>3468344That may be a factor But I've manipulated it multiple times by talking to random party members ~100 times.>>3468342Ironically she's one of the better characters for NG+ because unlike the majority of the cast her stat growths don't fucking suck.
>>3468342Yes. I was really disappointed about that too. The coolest characters, like Elektra and Lakian, join very late.
>>3468344It's who you talk to the most at the fort. You can literally just spend a few minutes talking to who you like.
I think the localization nailed some things that wouldn't work with a direct translation. When Nowa meets Gieran, he says "ore no namae wa Nowa!," (I think?) which is translated as "Nowa!", and for what I understand "ore" is really rude way to introduce yourself. But yeah, if translated directly, it would just be "My name is Nowa!" which wouldn't work with the tone of the introduction
>>3468347>Ironically she's one of the better characters for NG+Yeah I will not being a NG+ or any new or additional play through at all.
>>3468344I think it might be the character you talked/interact the most, because I got Sumire.
>>3468350I'm not 100% sure that is right either, I got stuck with Gocteau and I never use the talk option with him and talked to Lian multiple times per visit to the castle.
>>3468350I barely talked to her though. That's weird.
>>3468353I mean yeah I understand that. I'm just saying, at least she has that going for her.I'm not NG+ing this either. I've been right before the final dungeon for awhile comprehensively exploring the content, potential (limited) character customization, and minigames. If I'm going to parse my thoughts of pain points in need of improvement. It's going to require me to be thorough.
>>3468351"Ore" isn't that rude. It's just considered more masculine than the boyish "boku" and less formal than "watashi"/"watakushi". You wouldn't use "ore" in a business setting, but it's fine in the context Nowa uses it.
>>3468347>>3468361>>3468353What carriers over to NG+ anyway?
Everyone keeps bringing up Odessa.I prefer that leader of Muse, Matilda(?).Bitch had some fight in her.
I'm at the end and I can't bring myself to even bother beating it after my game crashed trying to accept the final assault. Instead I've been jerking off to thoughts and hatefucking Perry.
>>3468391Her name was Annabelle, actually.
>>3468391Viktor lost two gfs, feel bad for him.
>>3468310I thought so too. >Oh she's just walking herself to her jail cellOr whatever.But nope, just chilling in another town with her butler and bodyguard.>>3468317I think the whole point was that "she's just a pampered noble woman, she can't do anything." That Aldric thought so little of her that she wasn't even worth keeping as a hostage.It's just so poorly done it's laughable.Keep her prisoner, make her be a puppet ruler, pump and dump her. Don't just let the person that said "Hey, I'm gonna raise a resistance army and get revenge, you cool with that?" walk free.
>>3467321i slightly adjusted my tard team and discovered a cheese method
This took a very large amount of time and brought me no pleasure>>3468366Characters, teleportation, moneyAnd then either all the items, gear, equipment, or none of themCastle progress and building materials are completely reset
>>3468391Either one is really effective but Perri had more shades of Odessa. At least in so far as specifically asking the player to carry on her will. Annabelle (Matilda was the name of the night's country) was a good character but she was more an inciting incident than an impact on the player directly. >>3468398Odessa was Flik's girl. He even named his sword after her. As is the custom of his village.
Man, Flik and Viktor were good characters. I miss them.
>>3468404>Odessa was Flik's girl. He even named his sword after her. As is the custom of his village.I'm not talking about Odessa. I'm talking about Daisy and Anabelle.
>>3468406>DaisyOh right her. My bad. >>3468403>This took a very large amount of time and brought me no pleasureI didn't even attempt it. There's no pay off. Thank fuck there's no recruits tied to it. Beigoma was bad enough.
>>3468405Never thought much of Flik, but Viktor is a damn good character.Legit one of my favorite characters in any media.
>>3468405When I think of Suikoden characters those two are always at the top
>>3468410Yes, I'm also very fond of him. His interactions with the Star Dragon Sword are superb.
>>3468412Man just another shining example of why Suikoden's vampire arc was so much better.
>>3468410That's usual, Flik had to be the cool one so only Viktor could have a bunch of scenes where he could be a butt-monkey which let us see several sides of him to make him more human and interesting.Flik would be more interesting if he was less of a cool hero type after he stoped being a rival, maybe even have him move on from Odessa while feeling guilty about it( He could still avoid Nina with all of his being, they could have another character be his new love interest).
>>3468415Yes, it was really better in Suikoden II. The only good thing in Eyuden's zombie arc was Markus. But the Yarnaan involvement was lackluster, Tinto had way more tension.
>>3468305what is this?
All this does is remind me how much I like talking about Suikoden.Konami needs to get off their asses and get the remasters out. All the new "Eiyuden fans" (if such a thing exists) need to see what the real deal is like.
>>3468418>>3468410I like Flik. He's the more serious between the two but in 1 he had more of a hot headed streak and it was nice to see someone who didn't just immediately accept you as the leader. In 2 he didn't get as much time to shine but you did get some moments to show he's still torn up about Odessa. Though it would be nice to see him finally have moved on. Not necessarily find someone else but at least stop hurting as much.
>>3468391For me it's Queen Arshtat>That's it...Top Ten Scenes in Gaming
so is suikoden actually that good or is it another sotn, fe7 kinda thing where its overrated?
>>3468423>All this does is remind me how much I like talking about Suikoden.Seriously. I remember the first forums I used to hang out on were all based on Suikoden. And speculating about the world and the history was just good fun. >Konami needs to get off their asses and get the remasters out. I thought they were supposed to be out by now. I actually remember back then thinking it was kind of a dick move to delay them for the EC release. My did hindsight recolor that opinion.
>>3468426it's actually good.
>>3468426>SoTN >overratedback to the shadows with you
>>3468426If you're just gonna act like anything with a lot of nostalgia and praise behind it is overrated you're never gonna enjoy anything.
>>3468423I almost want to assume (and HOPE) Konami knows that they can't fuck up the remasters which is why they delayed it.
>items in a shop refer to stats as lower case words ("strength", etc) except the DEX stat (referred to as "DEX")>tempered armor says it's made out of wood>armors have descriptions that just restate the armor's name (bronze armor says something like "an armor made of bronze" - no shit)>interacting with the weird statue of a girl with an umbrella in the main city results in Nowa saying some nonsense filler text>some animals have names that begin with a lowercase letterGoddamn they didn't proofread this at all did they? I tried it on gamepass but if I bought this amateur piece of shit I would absolutely refund it.
is this character in the game somewhere?she's in the game files
>>3468430No I give old games a fair chance, but yes a lot of nostalgia does tend to blind people
>>3468432>some animals have names that begin with a lowercase letterThose are the pets of kickstarter backers, and they asked for their names to be rendered like that. There are a bunch of weirdly formatted names of randos dying in war for the same reason.But yeah, it's a pretty sloppy game.
>>3468433I have zero idea who that is.
>>3468433Cut character perhaps? I don't think she's actually in the game proper. I don't recognize her
>>3468433Secret Harmonian you only get if you play the game en espanol
>>3468432what are you a language arts professor
>Be "Barbarian" who conquered the arena and married the crazy hot crazy queen>Got two awesome kids who you get on great with>More or less adopt cute future body guard and hunt down and destroy assassin academy that hurt those kids>The only thing keep your crazy queen in check is how much she craves your dick Ferid was the best.
>>3468433Seign's mom? kek
>>3468437>>3468433>Don't get cool ray gun chickOh but I sure am glad they managed to make sure we got fucking Reid .
>>3468433also another mask guy
>>3468440They should have had a happier ending, great parents
>>3468408>There's no pay off.I saw the accessories and thought I could use the egg one to raise Leene to something approaching reasonable defense if I also used Runes to augment her statsIt does not. It's actually less protection than the elemental/physical SymbolsIt's actually just outright terrible.I'm almost tempted either spend the time to learn or pay another to rebalance stats and growths myself.
>>3468443Same group as fox face?
and a dead countess portrait
Just so you know the Suikogaiden games have been translated for some time now. There really just visual novels but a lot of fans may have overlooked them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HwoIekBxzQ&list=RD1HwoIekBxzQ&start_radio=1
>>3468447possibly formerly alive
>>3468426Suikoden as a whole is a mixed bag but the series start off really strong with 1 & 2.
>>3468445To be more specific, magic attacks happen to everybody. But targeted physical attacks aren't out of the running. So I had assumed that if I could raise resistances high enough then combined with her S shield she'd be able to successfully soak a hit when an enemy used a physical skill and hit her anyways. Provided I could get the damage to sub 100 in a random encounter, using her as anything other than a glass cannon (and ONLY in post game) would be workable....As you can see. Those dreams were swiftly dashed.
>>3468449>>3468447It did seem like the vampire probably had more story in the planning phase but you don't get him saying or doing anything about her till it's literally his boss fight.
>>3468433One of the DLCs is suppose to have a new character, might be her.>>3468443 or him>>3468447>>3468449Might be used in the Markus DLC.. maybe?
>>3468451Not so lucky now, are ya?
>>3468454All this DLC is just gonna be shit SHOULD have been in the base game isn't it? And people wonder why I'm a nostalgia whore.
>>3468458Seems like it, its probably one of those cases >Planned for base game>Deadline shit>Cut out from base game>Resell as DLC
some other people
>>3468462Well the kid is probably the Emperor's Son who they made such a big deal about. I bet the dude with the crown is the Emperor.
I just got to the split-route path, is the seign story long or required in any way because I don't like playing the B-team without my go-fast ring (or aire)
>>3468463there's this other guy
>>3468464It's one dungeon and a boss rush.
>>3468464>requiredyes>longnot so much
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5JnlNtx_mM
>>3468456The thing is that her stats in regards to crits in dodging are greatThe issue is that crits requires high base values to be worthwhile and dodging is a crapshoot in a game where nearly every single skill including "skills" that are just regular attacks completely bypass 100% of evasion.I've been coping a lot but there'd be more dignity and admitting to myself that there's no secret combo I'm missing.
>>3468464The dungeon layout is rather simple, also you can spar with the soldier dude next to the one that take you into the lab for some comfy & faster exp grinding.
>>3468458For Seign and Marisa, it's obvious shit that was cut for time.Markus they had a proper backer vote for it and everything, so it should technically be "new">>3468462Crown dude looks really familiar... like I remember seeing him in a early kickstarter update or something. I'll have to go check when I have the time.
possible cut boss unless it's a rare enemy in the game somewhere
>>3468475Cut true final boss, Fox Face's real form.
I'll admit. I didn't see this coming
>>3468484pointless shit added just to appeal to modern JRPG retards who need all the waifus to praise the earth they walk on.
>>3468479But seriously you were all expecting her to be some kind of major deal. Secret manipulator and mastermind right? Instead of her actually being a big ol pile of nothing.
>>3468489I was mostly expecting her to be Aldric's evil magic waifu at first
>>3468492I was expecting Melridge to be the real bad guy who was just using everyone.
>>3468494That's pretty stupid of you.
>>3468489She seems to be a Yuber-like character. If the game has a sequel, we might get more information on her masked group.
>>3468439Doesn't take one to notice this sloppy shit. I wasn't even looking for mistakes, they just came out of nowhere and slapped me across the face like a dingdong schlupping out of an interdimensional glory hole.
I hate it when kikestarter faggotry is added into games, it's immersion breaking every single time and doesn't add anything except for the one faggot who backed and finds his Cumfart pet in the game. Just add their name to the credits or something.
>>3468532sounds like soul to me
>>3468580I don't mind if it's somewhere unobtrusive and out of the way. And not>First scene in the game is literally a painting of some backer mug.
>>3468303Suikoden was fairly barebones, but just making animations for this scene spoke volumes for the soul it had.
>>3468605S1 is a bit basic compared to the later entries but it's remarkably well paced and does deliver on the fundamentals. Something this game lacked entirely.
>>3468613Agreed, I like Suikoden 2 more but I'll admit the pacing goes to fuck in a lot of places while Suikoden is steady to the end.
>LUCKY GIRL DEFLECTION!!! xddMan I already didn't care for the writing in this game but that was just really fucking stupid. Then there's Perry acting tsundere and pretending like she wasn't about to take an arrow for Nowa. Fuck you.
>>3468632Wouldn't want to commit to something that might seem actually emotional now would we.
I beat the game without finding the blacksmith.also I don't think momo is cute
>>3468615For whatever pacing problems 2 had, and I think there were a few, it at least treated what you were doing like it was important.
>>3468656That's the most important thing, yeah. There was a point to everything and the emotional weight mattered...unlike here.
>>3468651I refuse to use Momo because I hate homosexuals.
>>3468699I mean he's a mage so it's not like you're missing out.
>>3468722Momo's actually great. Not just because of being able to use his magic stat for regular attacks and as a result hitting like a truck, his last unique skill gives him an insane power boost based on his already inflated MP stats and makes magic actually worthwhile for the stupid amounts of damage he's capable of putting out.he's the only mage in the game that's like this
Why is magic even fucked in the first place?Is it poor balancing or a coding fuckup?
Why the FUCK is the castle escape unvoiced? Of all fucking things?
>>3468733>The ending is a complete ripoff of Suikoden 1 ending's without the seeming sacrifice of Viktor and Flik to get you to safety.
>unskippable creditsDeplorable.
>>3468733The game isn't finished.
>>3468753Sure, but I'm finished with it. Thank you for the ride bros, thank you for letting me vent, I'm never touching this piece of shit ever again and I'm going to try and forget it exists. Fuck the DLC, what a waste of potential.
>>3468771Likewise. If nothing else I'm glad I bumped this game up on my queue so I could play when others were also being let down and voice my feelings. I don't think I could have taken it if I couldn't share my frustration. If I'm thankful for any one thing it's reminding me how much I like Suikoden and why. I don't know when the remasters are expected out but I really feel in the mood for a series replay.
>>3468771My point of contention is with the balance. The game looks pretty and sounds decent but plays like shit.
>>3468796Good gameplay can often make up for a bad story. A good story can often make us put up with poor gameplay. This had neither. About the only half decent thing I can say about the game is about the music and even it didn't really leave that strong an impression outside maybe a couple tunes.
>>3468798I liked the dungeon designs, I thought they were well done.
>>3468440To be fair, chick only became crazy because of that thing on her forehead.
>>3468807>When your dick is stronger than an ancient relic that's one of the fundamental forces of the universe. I reiterate, Ferid is the best.
The manga version of Suikoden 3 is a pretty fun read. You may like it you haven't read it yet.
>>3468809Where can I read it online?
>>3468810Because I feel we need to help each other in these times https://mangadex.org/title/1c842052-23d8-45f7-a3eb-6bfc5e8ad4de/gensou-suikoden-iii-unmei-no-keishousha
>>3468811Every time I think about Suikoden 3 I'm reminded we'll never go to Harmonia and punch in Hikusaak's face.
>>3468812Yeah, I liked 5 a lot and even Tactics a good bit too but it is a shame we went in the opposite direction over what they were setting up with 3. It feels like it could have been a real war to end all wars.
>>3468802The early dungeons were alright. Two of the late dungeons were also great.The proving grounds and the mine shaft were great. I was so excited early on because I thought that if the early mines had this much quality and length the later ones would as well.Then towards the end Vliashnu was visually stellar and Harganthia was like an actual dungeon again.Everything in the middle were short dungeons with bad "puzzles", unthreatening enemies, and even worse bosses.That the Duke's castle is as boring as it was is a sin. The last gasp of life was the library. Comparing Castle Gardhaven or w/e the fuck it's called to something like the Earth Relief Center in Metal Max Returns or really just half of the SNES roster is like a one-sided stomp. They clearly ran out of time towards the end of development.
>>3468816>The last gasp of life was the library.Oh god that had me ripping my hair out. It wasn't like it was complex or anything. It was just annoying. And even with a repel charm it had way too many encounters.
Nerthus was such a dogshit boss.It's not difficult, but making a gimmick based on guessing is so lame. They could have at least added some kind of tell you have to figure out or something.
>>3468895I actually kind of figured out that it seems to switch sides everytime it gets successfully hit. At least alternating everytime once you do get a hit seems to work for me
Cooking contest makes me despise minigames in JRPGs all over again just like i did two decades ago.Fuck that shit, i want it gone. FF16 was right in that regard.
>>3468895Yup, that boss in the beta was the first sign that this game wasn't going to be great.Having one of the first major bosses be a RNG guessing game is fucking stupid.
>>3468967I'm glad I got past it last night and never have to do it again. I guess the idea was that you'd do it multiple times (pre-patch) and then have it so that each course would at least give you one 5 score, but thankfully, at least it wasn't tied to plot progression.
>>3468796>balanceThis really is the most baffling thing.For example. Holy fuck is Ivy trash, and she's a required party member so you'd think that SOMEONE play-testing the fucking thing would've brought it up.This isn't a Krin in Suikoden 1 situation, Ivy is supposed to be this strong girl with robot arms, she should be hitting like a fucking truck, but she hits like a damn wet noodle, the shy girl with long sleeves hits harder than she does!
>>3468344Story wise only Liam and Perrielle make senseLiam tries to troll you by pretending to be your GF and is generally clingy while Perrielle makes several not so subtle hints about wanting to get fucked silly.
Finally got past the Hishahn arc, do I immediately do Seign's stuff or stick with Nowa for now?
>>3469140>I could really use a personal touch, NowaShe craves his cock.
>>3469156You do share bags between the two squadsm so you could prepare some equipment (like take off dash boots for Seign to wear). But you have to do both eventually
>>3469160>literally blurts it out that Nowa reminds her of her father>clearly has massive daddy issues
>>3469170Ah, good to know! While waiting for a reply here, I decided to give Lam and Hakugin a try. So cool that Hakugin comes with Poison and with Mio in the party, you can see how bad she is by comparison.
>>3469184I expect non-MC characters to get outclassed, but not someone in your starting group to get outclassed this badly.
>>3469192this game is a serious case of>character gets good 99 levels in
>>3469184It's funny how worse Lian is compared to guys like Kongen
>>3469170Do Nowa first, and make sure you fill your bag with all-party heals, stat foods, and have the dash boots for Seign to wear.Seigns party is mostly trash, so Seign (and Hildi) will be doing a ton of the heavy lifting for everyone else.
I just can't get past how DULL and flat all the recruits are. It's been stated and it's not really wrong to say the Suikoden SoDs are all pretty 1 dimensional but even with their 1 dimension they at least all largely felt like they belonged in the world. Even the weirder ones. The recruits here have no focus. No ties to anything. They all feel like people just got complete freedom to make any character they wanted regardless of what it felt like. They felt like outcasts and weirdos but still natural because the world was also better defined. Here it's just LOL MAGICAL GIRL MAGICAL JUSTICE WACKY HAMMER!!
>>3469417Also, did they change Isha's VA from Rising? I just got to the desert town in the game and it's crazy how trivial the boss right before it was - expected to have to try it like three times, but won on the first try.
>>3469417It's even worse with Mellore because she was a decent character in Rising; a local girl that read a book and thought she was a Magical Girl, then caused all sorts of trouble because of it.Here she just sorta exists for her little side quest, then she just sits around your HQ. None of the people that apparently cared about her in Rising even interact with her.But that's a problem with all the characters that were in Rising in general, outside of CJ, Isha, and Garoo (and one line from Garoo to Hurstwine) these characters have apparently never met each other ever. Why bother with Rising at all if they were going to treat it like such a nothing event?
I'm just done with Seign's laboratory visit, and honestly i wonder whether i should even push to the ending. This is just dreadfully dull. Minigames are atrocious too. The balance between characters is non-existent and ui/combat speed is getting on my nerves.And i refuse to belive this toothless story is written by the same man who did Suko1 and 2.
>>3469480After Alliance Alive I'm not surprised at all.Whatever Murayama had he lost a long time ago.I'd tell you to just finish the game since you made it past that awful Shark part, but the story never gets any better... and arguably only gets worse. So many (important) things just happen off screen it's insane.
The only based tranny. He saved me in the Endless Mode. Is there any point proceeding further than level 26? I got the Mark of a Hero already.
>>3469485>After Alliance Alive I'm not surprised at all.I thought Alliance Alive was alright if quaint. It at least gives you decent stakes. >30 minutes in the game your girlfriend loses her vision do to a curse. You're oppressors actually feel oppressive. Go stop the demons.Boom. I'm in. Which is more than I can say for all of this. I kept expecting Yaelu's villagers to make some important difference but no they just scamper off and Yaelu spends the rest of the game being thirsty.
>>3469494I question why you would even bother getting that far at all. I don't know what this mark of the hero does but I promise you whatever it does do isn't worth it.
>>3469494i haven't seen anyone go that farkeep going for science
>>3469485>awful Shark partYeah what the fuck was thatThe sole dungeon in that region is an optional content and the minigame is a fucking war crime
>>3469507Thankfully the stupid boat race is easy but it just begs the question of why have it at all. These mini games exist not because they're fun but because they want to trick retards. They're dull and padding.
>>3469509I despise most JRPG minigames so this game is like a personal insult for me in particular.
>>3469511There's just no purpose to them. It's busy work. Nostalgia aside did anyone even really like the mini games in 2? Don't lie and tell me you you were into that rope climbing shit.
>>3469516I hated them two decades ago and i still hate them nowI also hate most FF minigames and i despised hot and cold in particular because it was a massive time sinkThe fact a shitload of redditors cried about having no minigames in FF16 is so puzzling because for me it was literally the best aspect of the game
>>3469519The worst part is all these mini games do detract focus from making a solid complete game. Maybe it wouldn't have made the story better but it would have been attention to focus on hammering out other things. But no we get to have a stupid boat race you'll do only once.
MP is a gigantic downgrade to Suikoden styled vancian casting. Is it even possible to make offensive mages good in this game?
>>3469507And story-wise it makes no fucking sense.>hey these sharks don't have any beef with the empire, and the empire doesn't care about them in the slightest, but this random mercenary we hired said they like to fight so... go from a alliance!It'd be like Riou going to fucking Duck Village to get their support in Suikoden II.
>>3469542The sad part is it's still the closest portion of the game to follow the suikoden formula.>The empire is a threat to everyone but we need allies>Goes to visit group of ____ to get their supportBut where Suikoden would have you earn their trust in a more meaningful way or have you prove to them that they're more affected by the coming war than they realize they just sign up for the kick ass hype war because you won a boat race and it's fun for them. Like what if literally anybody got to them first? They'd just as easily turn on you. Those are trust worth allies. Even the klingons have more a sense of logic to their warrior culture than this.
>>3469542Well, Chapell dislikes non-humans, so at least they have one less concern with Dux out. But I felt it was really forced as well. The Kobold / Wingers alliance in Suikoden II was much better developed.
>>3469556The Godwins hated the non humans too and the plot actually reflected this. the beavers were forced to build their damns for them under the threat of violence. The Dux's men hating the non humans feels tacked on. There's only one or two mentions of their hate and I still say it was something the english dub probably added for all it matted. There was no furries in need of rescue. No rush to save them from the armies of the empire. No prisoners of war. You don't need to go full Hitler but do something.
>>3469549>Garoo could have banded the Shi'arcs against Farthead because it's in all of their best interests to have a mutual defense for demihumans>Bernard could have been the one to convince the Shi'arcs because he's a desert dweller like them and his mercs just fought against the Empire>Hell, the Quinn sidequest could have been repurposed to be the reason why the Shi'arcs join Nowa after he shows his bravery and strength and protects the Shi'arcs from Oyasuminasai>lolno just do our shitty racing minigame and even if you suck we'll join
>>3469572They could have done literally anything and it would have been better. Fuck why not have the empire trying to recruit the shiarcs too, thus creating a sense of tension if you can win them over as well as a threat that you may have to fight a stronger force if you lose. You then find/prove that the empire hates non humans and plans to betray them, maybe rescue an influential person's kid or some shit for good measure and then you have your allies.
I don't think there was enough racism in the game, or any real animosity shown from the Empire's side. We were chasing ghosts through the entire game it felt like.
>>3469582Even Aldric's motivation is stupid. He was just salty he couldn't use rune lenses when he was a child, so he became obsessed over them once he got into power. This pales in contrast to someone like Luca Blight, who witnessed the rape of his mother by enemy soldiers when he was a kid.
>>3469603They don't even really delve into Luca's past history in the actual game of Suikoden 2. But even then you understood he hates the weakness of his father and the weakness of the city states and cowardly weak politicians in general. Even Jowy kind of echos this when he turns on you all. It's not Luca himself that's the problem alone. It's the kind of world that would allow someone like him to be created in the first place. Insofar as the main game is concerned Luca's motives and disgust of weakness are simple but you understand them in a completely realistic way.
>>3469582If we had actually spent any time with Yaelu's village before the genocide, it would've meant a lot more than "oh her brothers arm got blasted off, I hate youuuuu... I think"But no, show nothing, skip ahead two months, have everything happen off screen!
>>3469614Remember Alma Kinan village from 3?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbvfyzDSfH4A hidden village detached from the world filled with people with ties to the mystical side of the plot? That'd have been nice to get here. Milu himself becoming a combination of technology and mysticism is actually a pretty interesting concept in and of itself. The forgotten people learn the benefits of technology while the modern world rediscovers the awe of the magical.
>>3469485I thought Alliance Alive was good enough.Badr was a decent enough stepping stone boss, the racism is quite literally everywhere even if it's not THAT severe (outside of torture) for obvious reasons.Grossa was a memorable enough "villain" and his totalitarian views really did indeed up being all that kept daemons in lineKuwalsa had enough lore that explains both him as a person and his megalomania reasons for being the way he was, as well as his impressive body countIt wasn't like good, good. But it was still good enough to enjoy despite it's flaws.Also now that I think on it, that game had a higher body count, too. It also portrayed defeatism in a surprisingly realistic way. The average person wants nothing more than to go through their life with no attention drawn to them. Racism was pretty rampant too, least of all because humans actually were just inferior in that setting when compared to immortals who all have super powers.Slurs were also better now that I think on it. "Son of an ape" hits a bit harder than fucking "be-tailed" lmao.The fight transition times (there not being any) is obviously the best way to do combat as well, the menus were snappy, the loading was minimal, and water devil dens (at max chain anyways) were legitimately challengingEven the lore had more depth, with multiple major players being responsible before Kuwalsa cleaned house and stole research and literally created the state the world was in today.>>3469532Not in the early game. Shit costs too fucking much. Even in the late game you can't use MP outside of boss battles. The game has MP costs of a game that restores MP after every encounter but then doesn't do that.
>>3469637It's basic level story telling. Fundamental stuff. But it's there and it works. Villain threat established. Heroes motivation established. Conflict established. Reasons are tangible and backed with in game events rather than mouth piece justifications.
>>3465971A strict literal translation will more often than not do fairly well on basic meanings but there is so much more to language and translation than a copy and replace like people seem to think. A literal translation or AI model will more often than not produce absolute gibberish on anything more complicated than the most basic of sentences and will lose any and all undertones or subtle cultural differences that are important to actually understanding the meaning. One example is the classic "I cant get married anymore" line that crops up. Many english speaking people will see that and not know what it means or just see it as a really odd way to phrase something so NOT translating it literally is the objectively correct choice. Something like "I feel dirty/defiled." or just a generic statement about being embarassed or mad at whatever caused it keeps the intent behind the line and overall meaning of it while also making it more readable to the audience. THAT is what localization is. Its not some kind of sabotage of the source material or inept work that a lot of random online think it is. Its just how things work when you have to translate across language and culture barriers. tl;dr it is impossible to do a 1:1 translation without major changes.
>>3469691Considering someone on the internet still has to explain shit anyway, might as well make it 1:1.
>>3469691>tl;dr it is impossible to do a 1:1 translation without major changes.Yeah perhaps but that's also not a justification for the opposite extreme. You may have to change to convey the intent but the intent shouldn't ever be retarded meme talk. I'm happy to admit that translation is a complex process but you gotta see this isn't better.
>>3469691>I cant get married anymorePerfectly understandable to any English speaker.
>>3469691You're not incorrect. However this isn't a comparison between something like Muramasa and Muramasa Rebirth where both are translating the same thing with the same meaning and Rebirth reads better because of the flavor added (and is the version Hashimoto liked more)This is the case of the translation being accurate a good amount of the time. But then some retard editing the script decides to make stupid wording choices that stick out like a sore thumb and constantly take you out of the world whilst injecting more than a few fucking bad jokes in places where there are literally fucking NONE. There is more urban lingo and general "zoomer" nomenclature in this game than I get discussing sports with literal warehouse workers. So while things like the theater is, for the most part, adequately localized and reads well. Things like the main story beats and the majority of the recruitment quests are plagued with the "finessed" touch of an idiot who thinks they can write better than they can and their incessant use of legitimately childish wordplay I'm not a fucking language professor. I'm an idiot online. So shit sticking out to me like the technically correct but still visually repulsive "Hmm? No wonder he walks so genteel." You look at this sentence and even if you don't spot what's wrong with it from a technical sense, your mind realizes it.Pic related would be mild and forgettable if it wasn't nonstop throughout the script.
You know what's another downside to all this anons? This is more on anime but a lot of people learned a nice amount of Japanese through subtitles but now they don't even remotely match up so it makes it a bit of a deterrent now.
>>3469700Nobody learned dick from subtitles.
>>3469713I did
>>3469715No you didn't.
>>3469713keikaku means plan
>>3469582I feel like game writers are too scared of writing conflicts in general even though they're the best way to progress a story and develop characters.
>>3469728Say whatever you want about Jowy but his difference in opinion and actions compared to the hero was a big part of what made Suikoden 2 effective.
>>3469728to be fair, I think this is more of an issue in general with modern writers, too many of are not writing proper conflicts anymore
>>3469731It's why I don't bother with RPGs any more, they're not capable of making a story I'd remember for even a few weeks.
>>3469603>Even Aldric's motivation is stupid. He was just salty he couldn't use rune lenses when he was a child, so he became obsessed over them once he got into power.A major issue here is that if the idea was supposed to be that not everyone could use runes the game did a pretty shit job at establishing it. Like I know not all my characters in the game had access to the same rune slots but I think it was easier to assume that was for mechanical reasons over narrative. I don't remember at any point there being a scene where someone needed magic but couldn't use it nor do I recall an instance of the magically gifted being treated any better than a rando with a sword. >>3469730>>3469731>>3469734It's just astounding how defanged people have become. We're afraid to show the bad guy doing bad things because that might make someone uncomfortable? That's the point. You were meant to feel bad whenever Luca Blight burned down a village or you saw the corruption of Scarlet Moon.
>>3469738Things like Teta being shot and Toto being burned to the ground meant something to us back then, it showed us how the protagonist failed and how they never wanted it to happen again. Why would I care if no one else does?
>>3469417Suikoden always had weirdos, but they typically specifically had wacky retard containment zones in their world. For example in V, there was a town of pretentious renaissance artist larpers. In a vacuum, they're so out of place in the world yes. But then you realize that there is explicitly a town where those kind of nutjobs congregate. And in-universe, the people treat it as some kind of looney retard containment zone they try avoiding if they can.Mellore would've had a better place and more organic place in the world if there was some kind of magical research town filled with a bunch of eccentrics. And generally, the world in Eiyuden is mostly underdeveloped.
>Dr. Beyblade says one of the Evil Bladers is hiding out in my town>Except he's not, he's fucking around in Lam's villagethanks for the wonderful translation game
>>3469740it gives the world, its character and story a sense of consequences and permanence. Something that was there is gone now. Maybe you knew it well, maybe you didn't, maybe it was full of jerks but it's gone. It's a mark of tragedy on the setting and it makes things feel realer. >Mellore would've had a better place and more organic place in the world if there was some kind of magical research town filled with a bunch of eccentrics. And generally, the world in Eiyuden is mostly underdeveloped.Right? Why is there no stuff like this. We need to understand why lenses matter (they don't) so we try to find people who know about these kinds of things. Maybe we get someone smart as a story recruit and while there we find other magical weirdos. Give me a reason to believe your character can exist in this world beyond LOL IT'S FANTASY SO ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN! And for that matter the beast and non human races are too mixed. I'm not saying you need full segregation but give the bull people a home and origin. Where are the kobold people from? Give places to the world that your people have attachment too. Can we seriously not get a Gar backstory? Is he an exile? A wanderer did something happen to make him leave? Maybe his village was destroyed by the empire years ago. These are things you can expand on.
>>3469749That was what Suikoden was about to me, yeah. My engagement with the setting and how it changed made the game to me, all that and even just thinking about why the major players did what they did is gone.
>>3469749They could've had a chance to make a charming little story arc that's also a love letter to magical girls in general for Mellore too.That book she read a long time ago? They could've made it so that an actual magician dude from the theoretical magic town just wrote it for shits and giggles. And when you finally meet that person, they could make them go: "Oh shit, I wrote that thing as a joke. Someone actually made that nonsense work?"They could've had a cute little "a righteous heart that believes is the real magic all along" plot there.
I just don't like how Eiyuden tells you all the nasty shit happened off screen when Suikoden at least shows you happens from a different perspective
>>3469755Seriously. You have the connection between her and Momo right there but what do we get OMG CUTE! NEEDS TO BE CUTE! The game has the same problem so much modern media has were everything is reduced to its loudest most hyper exaggerated form to a point of self aware annoyance.
Will EC2 be a Suikoden 2, 3, or 4 level of quality
>>3469764I don't trust it to be of any quality.
>>3469764Its gonna be vaporware
>>3469764It'll be Suikoden 6 qualityie: It'll never be madeWhatever chance this series had died with Murayama and it's lackluster rushed release. If you actually like the world/characters enjoy the DLC and move on. There will never be another Eiyuden game.
>>3469768>There will never be another Eiyuden gamehttps://www.gematsu.com/2024/04/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes-sequel-plannedI'm not backing this shit anymore though.
>>3469772I wouldn't read too much into that. Retard interviewers always ask really dumb loaded questions. >Do you have plans for a sequelWill never be met with a hard no. But yeah after this trash fire I'm out. I fell into the nostalgia trap of a few kickstarters and it never went well. It didn't always go AWFUL. I didn't back Mighty Number 9. So we're not that bad off but all the same.
>>3469772>planned>planned>plannedI'm planning on getting up at a reasonable time tomorrow and eating a nice breakfast, doesn't mean it's going to happen.
>Plays are complete shitpostsYou know what, this partially redeems the game for me. I no longer care about the shitty minigames when- WHAT'S THIS?! MANDIE GETS UP ON STAGE WITH A STEEL CHAIR! THE AUDIENCE GASPS IN SHOCK! NOBODY EXPECTED MANDIE TO CRASH THIS PLAY WITH NO SURVIVORS! HE SWINGS THE CHAIR... SWINGING... KI-TAAAH! HE HITS! MANDIE IS YOUR CHAMPION OF WRESTLEPLAYNIA MCDLXXXVIII!
>>3469807I remember the S3 plays also being silly fun
>>3469849S3 was also a good game
So many people have just lost the ability to take things seriously and sincerely that any time any thing might be getting heavy it needs to be met with quips or shallow references. Even in mundane situations it still doesn't come off as genuine because the people doing the translation honestly have no idea how to communicate.
>>3469855Is it actually a translation issue or is it the original writing? I'm a dekinai, so I can't tell.
>>3469884The JP text is pretty straightforward and you know, characters talk like normal people.A lot of the translation has a habit of punching up the dialogue to have people do more quips or be more snarky. Some characters turn into outright assholes too because of this. And in some cases, in the pursuit to make the dialogue more colorful and act like better writers than the Japanese ones, the """improved""" dialogue actually end up being completely wrong contextually from the original Japanese too.Even ignoring the obviously politically charged changes, even some of the more mundane ones just reek of the translators thinking that they're more clever or creative than they really are.
>>3469884The original is written more 'normally" from what I could gather. That said however the story itself is still fundamentally lacking in even the original script. Even if we had a better translation I doubt the game would be much better. It's just another frustration for the pile.
>>3469886The fucker who translated Kurtz and cooking battles pisses me off the most
>People asking critics to be nice about criticism because Murayama passed awayHis death is one thing, but this game really deserved all the vitriol it's getting.
>>3469914I do feel a bit bad picking on the game because of his passing, and I will always hold fondness for the older games, but it's just not good. I don't think calling this came out is dismissive of the works he did in the past but to forgive a bad game simply because of it in spite of it's own qualities is unfair to everyone. Art is something that exists after all artists deaths we cannot call everything good because it's creators are gone. And it's honestly patronizing and disrespectful to the artist as well.
I understanding wanting to like the game, but I can't understand how people can sit there on places like reddit and act with such blind sycophancy. It's like the very idea of disliking something current is alien to them.
>>3469918>>3469921Yeah, there's a fine line between harassing the devs and panning the game because it's not good. At least one thing came out of this, we can all see that Suikoden died well before Murayama did.
>>3469922I am starting to wonder how many other people were strong influences on the series as we know it now. Not to sound dismissive of him or anything, he was certainly a major factor and the prime story guy, but you often realize well after the fact that how much of things was born out of limitations, rewrites, other eyes and minds on hand and what else can really change things during development. I think kick starter in general has taught us that it takes more than an auteur at the helm.
>>3469926Maybe age had a factor too but if I was forced to write an essay about what I thought has led to RPG stories being so toothless these days my primary factor would be the sentiment that things can be changed or fixed. Back then you only had one attempt to get the story out so you wanted to make the best damned story but people are too lax these days and the results show. It doesn't help either that a project that got funded is very different from the game you made before the story you wanted to make.
>>3469926>>3469929You also have to realize that these crowdfunded games are often cases of too many cooks trying to please all sorts of different people while still cooking in the same goddamn pot. Simply put, there's a lot more factors at play here compared to a conventional in-house development, and that can muddle the final output.Not to suck off Murayama, but I'm willing to bet that there's probably a lot of things in his original vision that probably got muddled and lost along the way in development. I mean, the released product is uh, not very good. And that's what we're gonna judge. But there's probably more at play in regards to what made it turn out this way aside from "Murayama is going senile lmao".
>>3469939That might have been why my initial excitement for Eiyuden died quickly and I never bothered to keep updated, deep down I must have realized that Murayama alone wouldn't have been enough and a fully paid project carries its own set of problems.
>>3469939No script survives five minutes with production. But I'd still imagine that crowd funding provides generally more freedom than the usual song and dance of development and publishing. I mean I don't know how it works really but I understand that's kind of the big point of it. You have an idea get people to back it and develop it. Of course I imagine that also invites with it a lot of its own problems. The need to keep certain promises for example. Like for an easy example the kick starter might have to promise a castle full of mini games. The kick starter would then be pretty required to put them in regardless of their quality just to say they did. A big publisher or in house director/producer might just tell you to cut certain shit right out if it wasn't working and redirect that funding elsewhere. Also one problem I keep hearing about, and I again don't understand business so do correct, but I hear a common problem is that these things get too much money. And I think understand it because if plan for let's just use one million and suddenly get three you actually have to find uses for that extra two. Which isn't as easy as it sounds because it's really not just a case of hiring more programmers or whatever. That extra money might go too far and depending how you use it also not far enough.
Having a button for speeding up combat would've been nice
>>3469947I don't know that I'd say I lost interest over the development years. At least not for this game specifically so much as just kind of getting a bit tired of things in general. I've seen a lot of kick starters turn out pretty mediocre despite how much people get excited for the idea of spiritual successors, and I'll be honest I got excited for a few of them myself but the nostalgia just didn't grip me anymore. I like my old games but kickstarter just hasn't proven itself to be the savior everyone thought it would be. On the whole I'm just kind of tired of a lot of things. Maybe it's my age, maybe it's being an adult in general but while I still like gaming I can't be that fanboy I used to be.
>Just done with Seign's story bitchrist Ivy literally did nothing, she missed half the time she attacked and the other half, did 30 damage each, truly a worthless character and i thought Mio was bad.
>>3469955Growing older, I just realized the trials those people faced when hardware was more limited and the general climate of gaming along with the need to prove themselves made a big difference. There's nothing bad with wanting to believe things can be the same but the reality is that the same man really doesn't cross the river twice.
>>3469961I think I've come to a similar conclusion. Between all the kickstarters and retro game throw back indy titles I think it really does show that something are and should always remain a product of when they were made. So many of the games we still love were made, not to be nostalgic, but just to be the best game they can make with the tools and time they have. Many of them knocked it out of the park. Sometimes they didn't. Some times they whiffed completely. But it feels like nostalgia has become a curse in a way. New games lack a visual and aesthetic identity of their own because they're too busy shouting HEY REMEMBER DUCKTALES or MEGA MAN OR SUIKODEN or whatever. Games that try and force a retro pixel look aren't recapturing the magic, they're using the love of that style as a crutch and an excuse. We're not trying to make new games that capture the same emotions we had for are old games then but with new games now and push the boundaries of creativity. We're crippled by the illusion that nostalgia is just automatically better. Suikoden wasn't better than this because it had pixel art, and sprites and 2d graphics because even the 3d suikodens are better than this. They were better because they were trying to be something different and unique and special. This is just a call back to something we've seen done. and done better and done more original. You know what I want to see? I want to see a beloved creative come out and say he wants to make something NEW. Not something that's a throw back. Or an homage or a spiritual successor. I want one of the directors or creatives to come up with a completely new idea. Use your previous titles as clout if you need to because you earned it. But don't say I want to make a NOT-BELOVED FRANCHISE say I want to a new franchise you'll love.
>>3469964>A crutch and an excuseHit the nail, those things simply don't have the soul the of the past because you knew people in their past tried their damndest with the sprites and it shows, Suikoden 1 and 2 are still incredibly beautiful. This entire topic is interesting to me for personal reasons and I'm happy at least to see that some people understand it the same way I get it: Those days are gone and you can't revive a dead memory but you can cherish it and bring it back in a way not reminiscent of a zombie.
>>3469970It is refreshing to see fans out there still feel so passionately about this subject. I mean even if this game was a let down it's actually exciting to rediscover my passion for the series that spawned it. The series is long and over and it's may better that way but it really goes to show how games use to be able to capture people so tightly. Even if they still have the short comings from the limitations of their release they were still able to dig themselves so deeply into our imaginations and hearts that it's not really a wonder why so many kickstarters get funded within hours. Old stories are wonderful to relive. I just worry that future generations won't have a nostalgia of their own. And this isn't just a game problem. Look at how much western media in general is based around toys from the 80s. Just food for thought.
I'm just gonna say it. The game peaked at the duel with Seign. Infact that was probably the only actual great part of the entire game.Rest of the game was pretty bland and nothing was really interesting or even felt engaging.
>>3469973Yeah, it's an interesting topic for me because I've long been dwelling on a story that tackles subjects such as memories and how it shapes everything we experience. Part of that topic entails thinking hard about why worse technology and graphics created great stories and how better technology seemingly did the opposite, and part of my answer involves the nature of availability and the permissiveness of knowing you get another chance: Shipping a game out with warts and all and shipping a game lovingly backed and funded by people who want to love it are such different beasts to begin with, and the more you focus on what you have (Graphics to tell the story etc.) the less you think about whether you've addressed all that you don't have.
>>3469982Big agree. The scene was serious, there was tension in the escape, we didn't know the game was going to wuss out of literally everything so there was potential that things might actually develop in an interesting way and both Nowa and Seign had justification for their potential clash and Seign himself had a decent bit of inner conflict.
>>3469985Nowa refusing to surrender was literally the only time in the entire game he felt like a real character and not just a yes man.It was also the only part of the game where it felt like there were real stakes involved. Everything else either didn't feel very serious, or was resolved quickly and without any lasting impact.The protags of Suikoden 1 and 2 felt like they had more character even though they're silent protags.
>>3469987This is not a knock against you but more in general towards people who just blindly insist that silent protagonists are mere self-inserts, as with voiced protagonists this depends on how they're used and how they're used in the story. Someone like Nowa who has no real stake in the story could never be as powerful as McDohl picking up all that's left of Gremio or Riou waiting for Jowy without knowing that he's already joined Highland. Ramza was a fucking fantastic protagonist BTW.
>>3469991I never thought of them as self inserts. It's just their actions alone, without a single word portray better character development than Nowa even though he talks throughout the game (to be fair, he mostly just says "i'll help" so he could have been a silent protag anyway).
>>3469984Yeah, I've thought about it a lot too. One thought that keeps coming to my mind was that how the old games despite being generally less cinematic or more simple still manage to be more endearing. I think a lot of it is how they tended to focus on important things and emotions more. We weren't given an avalanche of information or told what to feel in such extreme degree. It just let us latch onto things normally because we understand why what was happening was important. In a way I feel like old games were a lot closer to books than they were movies or tv shows. New games though tend to be more cinematic and there seems to be a need to over explain or over emote. Heck even as something as simple as newer games having voice acting can color our opinions on things. >Shipping a game out with warts and all and shipping a game lovingly backed and funded by people who want to love it are such different beasts to begin with, This is also an important thing to consider too. Like you said, people who backed this game WANTED to love it. If a major company released a game we might feel gypped if it turns out bad but we don't feel responsible. In a way we're the producers of the game. Or some equivalent title I don't know. But when when fund a game rather than buying it I think we're putting in a different kind of expectation. I imagine many backers have already decided their opinion before the game was even released.
>>3469991I actually agree with you but I also don't think being a "self insert" negates a silent protagonist from also being a character. Because the way the stories are told the characters in the game very much ARE characters. The story is just framed so that you're experiencing the emotions and feelings the way a character on TV might all while controlling the action. I do think it might be nice if they could emote a bit more. The Prince in 5 especially felt pretty lively but at no point do I ever feel like I was being TALKED AT because of being a silent character. Honestly and not to sound to crazy person or headcanonny. I don't think I ever imagined the silent protagonist as being silent. I mean he was in the literal sense but when I thought of the games I didn't picture them as literal mutes. I just knew that's the way the games where made. But as far as the relationships were concerned they did have personalities conversations and emotions with t heir friends family and enemies. We just didn't see it because video games.
Actually that wants me to bring up another thought. The idea that video game stories are told the same way as other stories. Which I think is erroneous. I feel like video game stories are kind of something you're meant to treat differently. Parse a different way. We're not simply watching a story we're driving it. Engaging with it. So it shouldn't be explored as just a simple Character A says something and Character B replies. If you walk up to someone in your castle and press X and get them to chat at you, you're not being mute. X is your hello. The buttons and gameplay are in effect your words. If you have your 6 dudes in a row and you get in a fight the actual imagined fight it's trying to convey isn't you taking turns bopping each other. Taking turns and choosing commands is just an abstract way of showing a battle that might happen in an story. So why should conversations and personalities be different. Games are not movies, tv shows or books. What you do and how you do it needs to be conveyed through mechanics. And that counts the story. If a game story grips you and you're sitting there on your couch going OH IM GONNA GET YOU LUCA BLIGHT that's not Riou being silent. That's you saying it through the game.
>>3470001I'd say the Prince (I vaguely remember whose canon name being Frey or something like that) is hardly a "self-insert" at all despite being mute because he's the most defined of all the Suikoden protagonists. He's the goddamn prince of a nation and already has tons of established relationships off the bat. There are tons of character dynamics that work only precisely because he's fucking royalty. And in contrast to the more restrained depictions of the main protagonist due to the limitations of the older games, V was technically the most advanced game, and it shows as Frey was a really expressive fellow. He doesn't speak a goddamn word, but from his character animations and expressions, you see that he's quite a chill and goofy fellow. And they take advantage of this quite well too since you clearly see him get a distraught and despair filled look in his face for the spoilerific shit the fan moments in V's story.
>>3470001Fun fact about the prince that is never really mentioned. His weapon is insane, it is easily the most technically difficult weapon to use in any of the Suikoden games and the way he wields it is the sort of thing only a few people with decades of training could do.Most people learning to use a weapon like this end up with serious hand injuries including broken fingers and knuckles.Kind of crazy how he just effortlessly uses it and it's never really mentioned by anyone how skilled he actually is.
>>3470009yeah, tri section staffs are pretty neat. Honestly in general I did always appreciate how many protags in this series weren't sword users. A few still do but it's neat all the same.>>3470008I'd say both Riou and Tyr have plenty going on too. The Prince might be the highest station but the other two were hardly nobodies though I will grant that the prince was able to take advantage of the more advanced hardware. But they both had a lot of friends and family too. The McDohl house was full up and Riou had Jowy and Nanami. But this is actually a good example of what we meant earlier when 5 was able to take the classic formula and actually evolve it to make the prince more expressive. Hell even with their sprite limitations they had a few moments that stand out. The death of Gremio immediately springs to mind
>>3470017It's why I don't get the memes about silent protagonists, they're as good or bad as the products of the games they're in and Suikoden made good use of them.
>>3470034I feel like a lot of gamers, especially as time goes on, have an awful bad habit of taking things too literally. There's just been an absolutely staggering lack of imagination as of late to where people can't even separate mechanics from the narrative anymore. Like how you don't DIE in asscree, you become DESYNCHED FROM THE SIMULATION. Stuff like that. It goes beyond the whole "why not use a phoenix down on you know who" thing which honestly started as kind of a joke but as time goes on people just stopped getting it or that the answer to so much of this was "because it's a video game."
>>3470039That's why I've been introducing my much younger friend to these games because it's hard for me to explain why are they so much better story-wise. We both bitch about 'modern' stories all the time though so it's fun to dissect what old stories did right that newer ones are clearly just aping if not completely butchering it with a thousand cuts just like how a little off here and there in Eiyuden turns it into a terrible joke of a Suikoden.
It's funny how Chrono is a better protagonist than many modern jrpg MCs
>>3470045It honestly doesn't take a lot to make a character engaging and memorable. So many games these days take way too long to say so very little.
>>3470049It's interesting to me how much bloat has come and that people live longer lives too. Certainly an interesting topic and I wonder if there's any correlation between lifespans and a general need to overextend products.
>>3470039> "why not use a phoenix down on you know who"It revives incapacitation. Not actual fucking dead people.It's frustrating really. For all the people that loves being smartasses and picking apart fiction, you'd think that their pedantic asses would've thought: "Hey, if methods to bring back people to life are an actual thing, why aren't more dead people running around? Actually, why the fuck is death still even a thing?". It's because Phoenix Down doesn't bring dead people back ya self-fellating idjits. For all their love of overthinking things, they don't actually get down and think about things.
>>3470055People like those are the worst, they're the reasons fiction sucks these days because they want only to read the stories they write.
I can't believe they burned my home that I spent like 2 minutes in...
Thoughts on Jowy? Thought I'd ask since we talked a lot about how off the mark conflict was in Eiyuden.
>stealth sectionAh yes, just what a game that isn't on a good track needed.
>>3466864What the actual fuck?
......
>>3470142I hope you picked correctly to get the thing
>>3469886I hate this world
>>3470081>go back to the burned down village>house interior still looked as good as newI can't take this shit seriously.
>>3470232>not that there's anything wrong with that
>>3470232>Even changed his expression
I kept restarting to win the duel with Seign on the bridge, and I swear I picked the right options, but I kept losing at the final part because I don't have enough HP to withstand his attacks with counters.Is it just down to RNG and I have to hope he gives more openings to attack instead of having to counter earlier in the duel so I don't get chip damaged? It doesn't help that there's no good checkpoint for the duel and you have to replay the slow as fuck army battles every time.
>just encountered Markushow am i supposed to take him seriously ? is he just a shit neclord wannabe or is he actually more serious in JP ?
>>3470303He's goofy all the way through.
>>3470134Want to know the worst part? The original line is, "If you're happy, then I'm glad."The context is that Nowa gave him a rune that he thinks he might be able to use to make levitating boots.
Why did they translate aniki as cousin
>>3470310Man, I don't know. It's the one translation that probably should have been just kept as brother and would have been understood by anybody except maybe Gen Z divorced from history, 90s lingo, southern dialect, and religion as a symbol of endearment and not literally being identified as a relative.
>>3460800Twelve hours in : mediocre game in every aspect. I'll forget I played it in a few months.
>>3470298Yeah, this is pretty much impossible on Hard unless you purposely level grind beforehand
>>3470310>>3470325The aniki in this context is in the hierarchical Yakuza/Gang context. You saved his ass, so he now looks up to you and is willing to be your loyal bitch.That's the time "Boss" would've been actually a good choice for translation.
>>3469807Quite a few gems tucked away in it.Plays are really fun, maybe not quite as good as the Suikoden III ones, but still a enjoyable time.Shame (almost) all the play scripts are locked to shop rare finds.
>>3470083Jowy is an engaging character with strong motivations and a defined personality and goal that gives weight to the story.>>3470170It's clobbering time?
I'm surprised how bad this game turned out to be. It's actually bad in - every - area, quite impressive honestly. I can't remember the last time I played an RPG like this as I tend to avoid those.
>>3470669Chained Echoes was just as bad but also had an offensively dogshit story with literal blacked cuckolding in it
>>3470672At least Chained echoes was entertainingly badThis is just boring bad, the worst kind of bad
>>3470437>locked to shop rare finds.What idiot decided on that.
>>3470672And just like this people seemed to pretend Chained Echoes was good because nostalgia blindness.
>>3470673Sea of Stars thenJust offensively fucking boring
>>3470694This is what happens when fiction is written by people with no understanding of conflict.
>>3470694More like Sea of Mid
is it just me or is this game kinda hard. I'm not gaming over or anything but i just beat the woods rune barrows and the lady and the knight was just doing nonstop 80-90 damage on my back row. I didnt have a strength rune and obviously that'd help but what else are you supposed to do here?
>>3470780It's not hard, it's just not very good at given you the resources you need so there's a rough patch or two. Once you get access to a more reliable group or better single heals it becomes cake.
>>3470780Its got shit balance issues, you'll be stomping stuff in the endgame anyway
Outside the shit story, it's still fun recruiting and upgrading the castle. I like that bosses aren't complete jokes for once. I hate that Momo is the only viable mage, I wanted to fucking use Markus. What the fuck were they thinking with his HP?
are there any magical swordsmans? ive got a fuck ton of doods and none can use magic runes.
>>3470800You get Seign, a faggy looking brown kid you'll bench, and a black guy.
So, is the game any good? From the general feel of this thread, it looks like it's mediocre at best.
>>3470819It scratches the Suikoden character collecting itch, but has worse writing than 1-5. Yes, even 4.
>>3470799>Outside the shit story, it's still fun recruiting and upgrading the castle.It was at first until you actually had to start farming materials for features you won't use. Frankly it's way of trying to make the castle building more exciting is just a lot of busy work to do the same things were already doing just by having the castle rank up at recruitment benchmarks. >>3470824>>3470819I wouldn't even say it scratches the recruitment itch because the recruits you're collecting just aren't very interesting, cool or likable.
>>3470819Even Suikoden 4 has more merit to it then Eiyuuden.Yes. Even 4 is better
>>3470824I had a feeling it'd be like that. A shame, because the story was a big part of what made suikoden good.>>3470826>>3470827Does the game have at least *some* redeeming qualities? Quite frankly I've never played suikoden 4, and I didn't really like 5.
>>3470819It has the same problem as Sea of Stars. The characters don't care about what's happening and the game doesn't take itself seriously, so why should I feel invested? It's like watching a comedy show than watching a story unfold, especially when characters do a Benny Hill run while escaping a threat.
>>3470829>Does the game have at least *some* redeeming qualities?I really want to find SOMETHING nice to say about it but there's just nothing it really excels at or does even remotely interesting. It even feels like it goes out of it's way to stop anything interesting or engaging from happening.
>>3470832>>3470833Fuck, are there any JRPGs that you guys would recommend for a Suikoden fan? I haven't played anything a while.
>>3470829>Does the game have at least *some* redeeming qualities?Without going into more personal subjective stuff? No. Not really. Plot sucks, characters suck, battle system sucks and is literally broken....
>>3470834Sadly no, suikoden was a unique gem. Maybe play Vandal Hearts if you haven't? It's not nearly the same thing but it was also an early konami PS1 rpg that gets a bit political. I just like it.
>>3470836looks cool, reminds me of final fantasy tactics
>>3470819It's alright, but there are a lot of very noticeable flaws. Magic is absolute dogshit, a ton of characters are extremely underpowered rather than merely being plainly outclassed like in other Suikodens, most of the minigames are tedious, physical rune "options" are limited to a single rune for a good portion of the game and some characters literally can't use anything better because their rune slots are too weak to handle higher level runes, the Unites are 80% terrible where they end up being worse than using the 2 characters regular attacks, the army battles are both bad and way too long because they need to write out an entire log of every generic NPC who 'dies' (which are all kickstarter names).The Rune Lens system is interesting but held back by how bad a lot of the runes are, having MP and SP for magic and skills would be neat if magic wasn't pathetically weak while also being overcosted, the castle itself alternates between tedious to upgrade because you need to farm the new materials, and incredibly simple to max basically everything out because of passive resource gains, rare items randomly being stocked in shops is FUCKING SHIT, the economy gets completely broken by your castle giving you free money periodically.Duels feel worse than mainline Suikoden duels because you only have Attack and Counter options and it's really hard to tell whether you've chosen right or not. There's a forced segment where you use a party of 6 characters that you've never had in your party before and 2 of them are DOGSHIT bad.Being able to open the map and teleport anywhere you've been before is a nice QOL instead of needing to Blinking Mirror back home and then talk to Viki every time you want to go anywhere.The game's leitmotif is one of my favorite ones in recent memory:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQsToGNvhrkhearing the various versions during pivotal moments of the story is probably my favorite aspect of Eiyuden.
They had Ivy, a totallynotloli shorty tomboy who had goddamn power armor arms. And she's fucking shit in gameplay. Some mages unironically, hit harder than her, the fucking character that has hydraulic fisting death machines grafted to her arm.I will never forgive Eiyuden for this.
>>3470829Sharks are cool to use, the theatre, no guide needed to recruit everyone, the first duel. I also liked the war battle where everything collapses for the Dux. Also, the strategist is pretty cool, too bad he's stuck in a boring war.
>>34708442? All of them suck.
>Forced to use Perry as support in final dungeon
>>3470672>>3470681Chained Echoes had an alright combat system, pretty good music, but a half-assed story. Sea of Stars had a good combat system, okay music, meh story.This has...something?
>>3470859Seign is good, Valentin and Hildi are fine, even Yaelu is solid at that point if you temper her weapon she'll lead your team in damage. It's just Ivy and Pohl who are trash
>>3470298I know I should probably just move on, but I'm too stubborn to take the loss because it's technically possible to win the duel, I've restarted dozens of times but I kept losing the final Break attack despite being able to counter 3 times to build up more tension.Whoever designed the Break attack success being tied to RNG should be fired.
>>3470862she didn't have the lock next to her name
>>3470887Your HP is too low. You take damage from the final Break. If you have HP after the Break you win, if you don't have HP you lose.
What is it with translators and their need to insert meme garbage into games? Is it some sort of power trip or do they hope to attain some kind of "fame"?It's not an rpg, but the same thing happened to the Touhou Mystia game until the translator got called out for his faggotry.
This game full of ugly bastards is secretly the second best Suikoden.
>>3470897I'm not sure if that's what's happening, already tried doing it with 2 counters while having more HP before but I still kept losing, but I guess I'll try again.On Youtube there's a video with someone winning the duel and they did it with lower tension and barely any HP..
Why am I getting fucking recipes in the final dungeon?
>>3470901They believe they're being creative and making it better.
>>3470917It's not worth the effort. Fuck this is the only thing close to tension and drama in the game so just enjoy that. You don't get anything for it.
>>3470055>It revives incapacitation. Not actual fucking dead people.where is that ever stated?
>>3470986Galuf's flame has flickered out
>>3470942Well, I finally did it, now I can continue with the game.Still salty that Break attacks are tied to RNG, hopefully nothing like this happens again later in the game.
>>3471013All the other duels are pretty easy. Even, or maybe especially, the final one that ends the story.
>>3470903I still need to play that game. It's been in my bucket list for so long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhNCbGDE4GI>unique animations (severely lacking in this game)>actually get to see the slaughter happen>can't return to the town like nothing happenedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I0mipMCLgo>king's assassination is shown to you
>>3471015They're still all really boring
>>3471041well. They don't outright say it but they definitely allude to the rape thing more than I remembered.
>>3467540I thought this was a joke until I met literal voring penis plants what the fuck
>>3471041>You're too late to save Toto>You try to get help, only to be forced to watch this massacre happening in front of you>You almost fucking die at Viktor's fortLuca Blight was a real menace and the game made sure you never forgot it.
>>3471328He did get killed by hundreds but killed thousands. He was sublime. He was the true face of evil.
>>3471531Don't know if it's just me, but I find it even scarier that Luca had a short moment wondering if he'd die before going on a rampage again.
>>3471531>You kill the greatest menace your land has known and yet with those words he made it all feel hollow
