>filters shittersHave you bowed to Johan (PBUH) today yet?
VIC 1337
>>1737591>no no i want to heckin spread my country color, how dare you introduce markets and tangible goods production into the gameSeeing the boardgame map painter fags seethe at this has been hilarious. EU4 is such a dogshit fucking game, this is a million times better.
>>1737605Are you a moron? Resources aquasition is additional reason for conquest. By 1700 i will control all rubber... I mean, coal.
>>1737591vicky 4 is looking good
>>1737617Don't get ahead of yourself, the economy isn't that advanced. Wouldn't be surprised if Paper is as bad as it gets. No advanced inputs, either.
I kneel, master Johann.>>1737629God only knows how they will fuck this release up, but as of now, it feels like they’re going for the ”best of” compilation of gameplay mechanics. I’d rather take a somewhat simplified form of Vicky married with EU than whatever Vic 3 currently is.
>>1737637Oh, don't be such a baby. Raw material -> processed material -> advanced good is already complicated. If you start including methods of obtaining raw materials that include advanced good inputs, everything gets more tangled. That's the kind of complexity I want and appreciate from V3.Raw materials -> advanced goods, with little functional variation in methods is fine and dandy for a game, if the focus is elsewhere.
Venice bros, next diary will make our break our future
>>1737659>monopoly on trade in pepper with Ottoman EmpireWonder how that would work. I didn't see pepper anywhere as an input.
>>1737591what a fucking retard
>>1737663There's 70+ goods so there's a lot we haven't seen, but I highly doubt pepper specifically is one
>>1737674A few production methods too complicated for you bro?
>>1737697the player deciding how his country makes paper is retardedthis is worse than deciding which gun a plane should have attached to itare we supposed to play the sovereign or a 9 to 5 clerk looking at spreadsheets
>>1737701>are we supposed to play the sovereignwtf you dont play as the ruler in eu
>>1737701They added a way to automate it for brainlets dont worry.
>>1737701duhhh you're supposed to be playing as the "spirit of the nation" buddy (whatever the fuck that even means)
I want supply chains that make Factorio overhaul mods look basic.
>>1737629at least the game so far seems like a solid foundation for meiou
>>1737688My guy, pepper specifically is the reason Venice could afford to build their city out of marble. Pepper covers up the taste of spoiled meat, which in pre-refrigeration era was most of it. When people say "spices" during this period, they mean primarily pepper.
>>1737767>Pepper covers up the taste of spoiled meatBased retard.
>>1737794Okay, fine, that's just one theory. But it's better than the "for Helth" or the "for Status" ones.>However, when one considers the wretched victuals of 15th century Europe, it is easy to understand the extraordinary value placed on spices. Food was neither wholesome nor palatable. Cattle, slaughtered in October, were salted and kept until the following spring. Spices were believed to have a beneficial preservative action in meat. Potatoes were unknown and very few other vegetables could be obtained, either in or out of season. There were few lemons to flavor beverages, no sugar to sweeten them. Neither tea nor coffee nor chocolate was available. Spices, however, such as pepper, cinnamon, ginger, and cardamom, when mixed with the coarsest, dullest, even the most repulsive fare, could make it more palatable. Spices were used to camouflage bad flavors and odors, and it was also believed that their consumption would prevent illness.
>>1737807>the culinary conditions most of humanity had for most of civilised history are bad specifically in the context of medieval EuropeMay Allah smite whig historians and their works!
>>1737591>multiple resource recipesI FUCKING KNEEL
>>1737876I mean, have you ever had hardtack, or anything completely devoid of sugar?
>>1737876It's unfortunately true. The food in Europe was so bad they conquered the entire world to solve the problem.
>>1737887Hardtack is a military ration. They had sugar in medieval Europe, they just got it from beets and such rather than sugar cane.
>>1737891Hardtack isn't just a military ration, it is just a pastry convenient for military rations.
>>1737888I don't buy the cultural/class reasons for consuming spices, similar to Muslims avoiding pork, because pigs eat and roll in literal shit, and the dirty French then eat them, because abstaining from something isn't the same as spending several empires worth of money on something.>>1737891It's also most of what the sailors ate, because it's the one thing that would preserve.
>>1737893Lower classes did consume spices, but it was an extreme luxury. You'd save it for religious holidays.
>>1737591I've played vic 3 recently and this looks easiert. shitter
>>1737922Well, it kind of is. I don't think Johan is going to force you to make tools, so you can extract iron and coal, so you can make more tools, and then make steel, so you can make more tools, and then engines to feed into your infrastructure and produce transportation.
>>1737629Books and weapons are already confirmed to be in as goods so at least in some cases we are looking at a three step production chains
>>1737936I'll take anything as long as Johan doesn't make me siege level 8 forts for every province
>>1737942Vicky3 complexity doesn't really start until advanced goods become inputs for raw material extraction. And instead of a straight line of goods production, you have... more like a bicycle wheel. That's the REAL ticket.All Johan has to watch out for is buildings competing for the same resources and it fucking with the market, if you have automation on.
>>1737701historylet detected, Kings would constantly meddle in what you could make and how during the period that mercantilism was the main way of thinking (i.e the period the game is set in)there was even a king of sweden (Gustav Vasa) that would micromanage the entire economy of his country
>>1737942And, if you're wondering, I didn't mean Paper "badness" as in it's the most advanced it got, but how many options there is to produce something. Four or five being the most diversity, and only for limited few things, like clothing. Things like "Books" will likely always just require paper. Unless there's something going with Ink.
>>1737952I don't see ink being a thing. So yeah, either books only need paper or at most paper and a little bit of leather
>>1737629Even this is still 100x better than eu4
>>1737974On the other hand, EU4 had dyes. Which applies mostly to clothing, though. Black ink is mostly based on soot and other burning by-products. But then again, it's printing press time, which would require wood and metal machinery. Big hmmm.
>>1737591
>>1737591>4 different papers! so complex!The absolute state of paradrones.
If people are worried about it being to simple (desire being more interesting than eu4 by 100 times) what's stopping them from just adding more complexity overtime?Its still parashart they have to shit out bloated dlcs down the line somewhere
I like the simplicity of the system and how it is automated, that is perfect for a grand strategy game. Only reddit bugmen love going into a menu to adjust things every fucking tick.
>>1737891>They had sugar in medieval Europe, they just got it from beets and such rather than sugar cane.Nope. Beet sugar goes back to the 1750s. There were some earlier processes using beets but those were noticeably inferior to cne sugar. For the longest time sugar was considered merely a medicinal product and far too rare for simply using it as a sweetener, that only started to change after the canary islands and others were used for cultivation.
>>1737998>For the longest time sugar was considered merely a medicinal product and far too rare for simply using it as a sweetenerReally this is true of most modern luxuries. Unless it could be produced locally, you weren't going to consume it regularly. Not even if you were super rich. Didn't have the storage capacity, didn't have the production capacity.
>>1737997Simplicity and automation are what makes a strategy "grand", after all.
>>1738005Exactly. The focus of a Grand Strategy game is war and diplomacy after all so the economy being a simple simulation with automation elements allows you to focus on the things that matter rather then spending all day looking at a nested menu like the dogshit Victoria 3. Ultimately all Grand Strategy games are wargames first and foremost.
>>1738008You must be a very big fan of EU4 and HoI4, then?
>>1738010Yeah, they are a lot of fun. Adding a small amount of complexity to the economy is nice so long as it is restrained and sensible like what Tinto is doing in EU5.Pops, economy, trade. These things should be subordinate to the warfare and should never demand constant attention.
>>1738013Entire fucking genre is almost nothing but wargames, and you're upset about the one game that went against the grain.I'll make sure to tell Johan to punish blobbers.
>>1738018>"All of the Grand Strategy Wargames are wargames! WHY IS IT LIKE THIS! WAHHHHH WAHHHHH!"Geee nigga I have no idea. And please do punish blobbers, I want my world conquests to be difficult.
>>1738021Aggressive Expansion will be permanent, unless you're retaking your primary culture lands. There will be a hard cap on how much land you can govern, rebellions will be constant past it, with outer territories simple paying lip service, independent in all but name, or simply breaking away and there's nothing you can do about it. As the military challenge from outside decreases, your empire begins to rot, corruption becomes endemic, schemes, infighting and plots constant, and demands for stability greater, and if you're not careful, it'll simply collapse and dissolve.
>>1738023I'd win.
>>1738021I think "punish blobbers" is the wrong system. "More to manage" and "more complex mechanics for large empires" would be the better route. Because by "punishing blobbers" with mana caps or upkeep fines, you just encourage them to play in a very artificial manner that gives them what they want anyway.
>>1738029Paradox doesn't punish blobbers at all. Every single internal management mechanic gets gutted. That's why EU4 is fucking boring.
>>1738030They do with warscore nonsense.
>>1738032The blobber feels so entitled to map paint, any pushback is met with confused hostility, and any inconvenience is treated like a grievous injustice.
>>1738035Again, I say just give them more to manage. If they reach a certain size, congrats you just unlocked a bunch more plates to start spinning unless you want your empire to collapse. Like for example, let's go with Persia. At a certain size, it needs to start managing Satraps.
>>1738036That's what estates were supposed to be. How did that turn out?
>>1737922I struggle to see how anything can be easier than>look at goods deficit>build relevant factory>repeat
>>1737708do you think it takes any braincells to manually click on the one with the biggest green number? truly the peak of strategic gameplay
>>1738040Not every country is blessed with resource autarky.
>>1738043Oh sorry>Look at goods deficit>Click import good>repeatAnyone who argues that Victoria 3 is difficult rather then simply tedious is a reddit retard.
>>1738046Post your hours, then.
>>1738047I refunded it so the hours I have are from the negative review I posted.Valve understood that the game was utter dogshit and let me refund despite being 13 hours in.I also played around 12 hours of the leaked beta. The game they released was exactly the same as the leak.Sad.Post your hours now.
>>1738049Currently avoiding, waiting on the DLC to drop. My time disappears way too fast.
>>1737701>boardgamebab filteredkek
>>1738018CK3 is a an ERP game. Vic 3 is retarded and "the game that went against the grain", only HoI4 and EU4 are left as the war games and HoI is (was - it's getting better) more a WW2 simulator than a general war game. INB4 Slitherine - KYS. This war game "dominated" genre isn't very dominated at all.
>>1737591>game about imperialism and colonialism>start date 150 years earlierDOA
>>1738134The game is about reforming from feudalism.
>>1738134>>game about imperialism and colonialismthat's not what Project Caesar is about, you're confusing it with older paradox titles
>>1738141>reforming from feudalism.1444 start was sufficient for that>>1738145>that's not what Project Caesar is aboutapparently it's about jotard's obsession with MEIOU
>>1738153sorry meant to reply to >>1738151it's my first day on this sub
The early startdate is indeed still a concern, luckily Johan did not deny a new coming in the future.
>script to automate production methods monthly isn't that going to considerably slow down the game for an essentially useless feature? I'm pretty sure the Habsburg emperors didn't tell the miners in Tyrol how to extract the silver as long as they delivered it to their coffers.
>>1738179Well that's basically what automate doesProduction method changes to the most profitable which you can argue it was people would do anyway
>>1738188Remember when you got so upset over people liking EaW that you decided to claim that half the leaders in the mod have they/them pronouns?Remember when you got upset about people shitting on your weak-ass looking hands and German keyboard and claimed they were making rape fanfics about you?
>>1738194what
tranny is boiling again lol
When will they officially announce this? This looks promising but>paradox>johan
>>1738216>When will they officially announce this?When everyone has bought the last EUIV dlc
>>1738199>iphone filename
Did the devs talk about characters somewhere or not yet?
>>1737701Ok we make game just for you. You get map and paintbrush, every week you pick which province to color, everything else automated, okay?
I don't know if it's just people still trying to defend the turd known as Victoria 3 or if people really think clicking on the available option with the highest number to make flour is some deep revolutionary strategy gaming.
>>1738244It's a well-accepted opinion on the rest of 4chan that iPhone posters are third worlder tier at the very best.
>>1738244They can't afford iPhone
>>1738244>>1738264>ESL syntax>complaining about ESLsWhat?
>>1737591wait so you can only choose on method to make paper at a time?
>>1738134That's the Victoria series though
>>1737591this looks like a bloat mod lmao
is there a way we can support wiz and let him save face? it just sucks that johan is bending him over and making a vastly superior game to v3 in literally every single way.
>>1738335Buy Victoria 3 and all its dlcs, convince your friends and family to do the same, make posts on the internet in every Project Caesar game discussion about how Johan’s upcoming game has feature bloat
>>1738342If that's true, then why have I never seen a decent iPhone post? It's always something like>dogshit opinion>meme frog/memejak image>iphone filenameI don't think I've ever seen a good post with a visible iPhone filename-bearing image attached to it.
>>1738351true true
>>1738356I have, and nobody has ever given proof of this.
>>1738153reminder that this is robbie >>1737714why is he doing it lmao
>>1738351Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact the Obama (and presumably the Biden administration) gave out free iPhones to "disadvantaged communities" (niggers, in 2024 this likely refers to Venezuelan criminal gangs as well) and the fact the average non-ethnic minority iPhone user is bound to be some kind of sóy latte-slurping pretentious fuck who thinks he's god's gift to the earth. Like you!
where yall schizo sociopathic niggers comin from huh
>>1738372Can you please teach me your ability to be so blatantly dishonest? Cheers in advance
>>1738369And how do you know this Reddit post exists in the first place?
>>1738378It's just one very sad and mentally ill person
>>1738382See, you're doing it again. How do you do it? You lie as easily and often as the IDF's spokespeople.
>>1738335>vastly superior game to v3Hold your horses, anon. I want to see internal management.
I see it's another bad day for Robbie
>>1738397Aren't you the guy who would sperg out if anyone insulted his precious trannies? Why have you suddenly become all transphobic? Why is it no longer an ESL thing to hate trannies?
Who or what is Robbie and what's the deal with the autistic spergfest?
>>1738423boogeyman the troons are trying to associate all eu5 critical posts with
>>1738410I didn't say anything about Robbie.All I mentioned was someone who types in a very similar manner to you sperging out whenever he sees a heckin transphobia.>>1738423Robbie is an incredibly dedicated shitposter who has been plaguing /gsg/ for years, though he has now migrated to /vst/ (assuming it's still him and not a copycat).He always had an incredibly weird and oddly specific hate for Victoria 2 players. he is responsible for all sorts of weird anti-V2 memes, including pic related, portraying EU4 players as le black gigachads.It's unclear if he even plays grand strategy games or he is just an outsider who just happens to harbor an incredibly autistic hatred for the V2 playerbase.Posts of this style were always about V3 prior to the announcement of Project Caesar and his presence is non-existent in anything not related to Paradox games.When Victoria 3 released he noticed that the original Victoria 2 playerbase disliked it, so defending V3 or mocking those who criticize V3 was his agenda prior to Project Caesar.I believe he has been at it since 2017 or 2018, basically half a decade.He has also had his IP revealed at some point and unsurprisingly, it was an American one.
>>1738435And yet when Johan makes an official version of MEIOU you rally against him while whining about le medieval communism and mass migration.I'm starting to think you're a contrarian.
>>1738436well, he got banned from fucking pharao steam discussion threads kek
>>1738460>feels just like a bunch of busywork.really? switching the production every 100 years is too much work?
>>1738496>every 100 yearsAnd what makes you think its only every 100 years? And that's ignoring that each province, RGO and building has their own production methods with one choice being preferable depending on current circumstances.
>>1738500>And what makes you think its only every 100 years?we got 4 options for paper, game runs for 500 years>And that's ignoring that each province, RGO and building has their own production methods with one choice being preferable depending on current circumstances.doesnt seem like this game has MAPI or throughput systems so you only need to look out for shortages
>>1738519I'm not sure if those are really just better technologies for production, although I could be wrong. In the other hand of it is they could just as well be automated improvements or just basic productivity boni.And if it's just a "pick the most profitable spending on shortages" there eis little reason not to have it be automated either imo.
>>1738528>I'm not sure if those are really just better technologies for productionThey are, pulp wood is from the 18th century.>And if it's just a "pick the most profitable spending on shortages" there eis little reason not to have it be automated either imo.You can also switch to a less profitable option if you want to artificially increase demand for a good.
>>1738264Bloode what saar? Can they not do the needful and redeem Iphone?
>>1737591this is cool but if it's anything like the v3 Ui then im going to rope. >need to import goods to finish building>have to manually set good imports in 5 different instances to finish specific building>10 seconds later have to repeat the same for a different building>rinse and repeatit has to be really simple like i can click on the building and instantly spend ducats to import everything i need in order to preserver my sanity
>>1738436I think I may have triggered that by mentioning Taborites and Jan Žižka. Sorry.
>(dead)>(dead)>(dead)>(dead)>(dead)I see robbie at it again
https://youtu.be/11bay3ae9LU>normalfags are complaining about "complex" mechanics in the commentsit's over
>>1738544>im going to ropeYourself?
>>1738711That's what I'm going to rope mean yes.
>>1738711Based joke explainer.
>>1738786I thought it was going to be yet another cringe tirade threatening violence on devs/normies/trannies/whathaveyou, honestly.
>>1738167>a new coming in the futureHe outright told it's too complicated(due to population changes and number of provinces) to consider second start date when asked about it doe Nobody except for a few autists would play anything but first start date anyway
>>1737807>Food was neither wholesome nor palatableThey had fresh bread, cured meat and (depending on the season) quite a few high quality fruits and vegetables. You can store onions, apples, cheese, salted and smoked meat, etc. halfway until the next harvest in case of produce, and many years in case of meat and cheese. late winter to early spring would be really mean food wise, but you'd be eating somewhat well at least half of the year. Many vegetables can also be pickled for nigh indefinite shelf life. But yeah, hearty food sucks ass without pepper. But as long as there was salt, all was fine, preservation and basic seasoning wise>Cattle, slaughtered in October, were salted and kept until the following springAnd?>Spices were believed to have a beneficial preservative action in meat.Medieval bro science, but they aren't hurtful either. Sugar was considered a spice, and it definitely increases shelf life, so they were at least partially right>There were few lemons to flavor beveragesEver head of hops and other aromatic herbs? You don't need fucking lemonade to survive>no sugar to sweeten themBees make honey, you know>Neither tea nor coffee nor chocolate was available.Can't miss, what yer don't know. Although I would go insane without tea and tobacco. My childhood self, and by extension an adult growing up without those luxuries, would not.> Spices, however, such as pepper, cinnamon, ginger, and cardamom, when mixed with the coarsest, dullest, even the most repulsive fare, could make it more palatable.Spices were used by the urban middle and upper classes, who had access to meat and vegetables of good quality. They wouldn't be eating inpalatable swill in the first place. >Spices were used to camouflage bad flavors and odors, and it was also believed that their consumption would prevent illness.Some spices actually have health benefits concerning gut health and strengthening you immune system. Not exactly a massive boost, but again not wrong
>>1738861Basede ye olde /ck/ anonne
Are we going to have schizo meltdowns in every thread until eu v comes out?
>>1738878
>>1738878>Imperator failed for a reasonYeah none of which are embodied here and only one of which is still in the current version of imperator unchanged.
>>1738861Now get in the mind of a medieval serf, and don't act like any of that shit was available at a local grocery store. Don't forget to factor in bad harvests. Also no pesticides. Shit being tossed out into the street, to be eaten by pigs. Open air meat markets. Maybe look into how India's poor live to get into that vibe.
have they talked about diplomacy yet and if they're going to keep the dumb diplomatic relations cap?
>>1738878>modernWargame map-painting faggots are the old fanbase.>>1738887This is literally the first time I've seen someone complain about the cap.
>>1738888>The French court cannot have more than four royal marriages because we say sosorry I didn't enlighten you earlier
>>1738887being able to ally 75% of europe would be overpowered
>>1738889But you can, you just pay diplo mana for it?
>>1738893which thankfully won't exist
>>1738895There would have to be some kind of cap, still. Royal house members aren't infinite.
>>1738891No but having a opm vassal should not cost the same as having pu over Spain.
>>1738827Yeah for the launch, he also said on the forums that it could be a possibility for DLC.
>>1737591Looks like shit.t. 200+ hours in Vicky II and staunch Victoria 3 hater
>>1738897Not only that but also the diplomatic surroundings. Imagine country nowadays having an alliance with USA, Russia and China.Unless you are Mongolia, that is.
>>1738897yeah in the dozens
>>1738923>200+ hoursMight as well listen to somebody who only played paradox games on youtube
>>1738923normie get out
>>1737888>pop history
>>1739009Most of the EU fanbase at this point likely just wants EU5 to be EU4 with a new engine and more provinces. The people who wanted an in-depth simulation title were all alienated years ago.
>>1737591LMAO I warned at the star that eu iv fanbase was made of the dumbest most gamefied brainlet bloobers and anything adding small complexity to their slop would be sabotaged by staying on iv, johan is a retard appealing to the minority of imperator/vic 2 players, this game is DOA
>>1739009>I would much perfer if PDX abtracted the economy to the level that most rulers of the era understood:/
>>1739009Another hollywood "historian", most rulers were not gigantic dumb bufoons, in fact some were outright genius, those who actually did remarkable things even more, also you are not the king but the state, this is not ck3
>>1739015>just use full unitsJust shift the decimal 2 places to the right for everything. I'm a fucking burger and even burger education taught me to decimal.
>>1739009why do paratards feel the need to couch every single little fucking opinion they have with "muh historical accuracy"
>>1739027Because they want to pad their argument with more than their gut reaction.Their historical accuracy is often inaccurate as well. Some rulers were dumbshits but many did have an understanding of how things worked. Moreover you don't need to understand every bit of paper manufacturing to understand that if you have a glut of wood you don't need to bother with other production methods.
>>1738432the only funny /gsg/ poster, I kneel
>>1739011Hey, we got V3. So I'm happy.
>>1739018>Suzerain>but it's a grand stratI'd play that, too.
>>1739009>controversial opinionOutside of here it's not really that controversial from what I've seen, and that somewhat worries me regarding the development of this title. Hopefully Johan doesn't bend to whims of these people.
>>1739052luckily the forum users are pretty autistic
>>1739052until the game is released and you can play it, anything they say is just blowing smoke, so don't be surprised by more than a few "unfortunately we had to cut that (we never intended to actually deliver)" moments.
>>1739072I think it's a bit late to take a cleaver to the design document like this. Johan clearly has SOMETHING on his laptop. These diaries aren't just speculation or theorizing. Or features that can be cut down into abstraction to save on processing, like the "railway gauge" thing in HoI4.
>>1738827>Nobody except for a few autists would play anything but first start date anyway>muh centuries off gameplay>want to play during french wars of religion>want to play during thirty years' war>want to play during french revolution>can't because paraniggers are obsessed with playing only a first start datewhy are you subhumans like this?
>>1739101most of the complaining by retards in here will be fixed with mods
>>1739107later bookmarks still aren't fixed in eu4 though
>>1739101>can't because paraniggers are obsessed with playing only a first start datethats not true though you retarded trannythe only pdx game with multiple startdates is ck3 and its basically an even split between both dates in term of popularity
>>1739130>thats not true though you retarded tranny>the only pdx game with multiple startdates is ck3they literally stopped development of later e4 bookmarks because paratards are only playing 1444, you faggot
>>1739131no bookmark besides 1444 was ever properly supported lmaoeven the 1776 that has an achievement was always full of weird shiteu4 always had only one real bookmark same as hoi4 with the 1939 meme
>>1739131it was way too many. they made every day in history playable as a start date which is retarded. having just a few (and achievements enabled for later dates..) would make them viable options. A 1444 option seems like an obvious choice
>>1738134>NOOOO HAVING EXTRA 150 YEARS TO DO MORE IMPERIALISM AND COLONIALISM IS... LE BAD!1!!
>>1738962>Plays EU IV>Calls other people normieDon't you have another DLC to buy?
>>1739269EU4 is arguably the most popular paradox gsg but it’s still not a normie game, the average normie has never heard of this title and would think it’s an incredibly niche game for weird autists if you explained it to them.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HvcnwQ59ZAM
If this game fails they should Johan to Brazil next.
>>1738008>The focus of a Grand Strategy game is war and diplomacy after all so the economy being a simple simulation with automation elements allows you to focus on the things that matterCuckold mindset, unbefitting of someone sailing the world for flavour dust. Pic related
>>1739009I agree when it comes to production methods tbqh, I'm waiting to see how trading works however.
>>1739253>150 extra years for the ai to blobFantastic.If the game doens't have territorial fragmentation on sucession I'm going to travel to boomer island and kick Johan in the nuts.
>>1739358I hope coring requires time and there's no quick way to circumvent it.
>>1737591It already has a shitty map like ck3. The game is dead on arrival.
>>1739441>Boohoo there's impassable mountains and realistic borders instead of big flat squares
>>1739275True.I even doubt normies nowadays know what a CPU is.
>>1739441I don't think I've ever played a paradox game without a map mod since hoi3 or darkest hour. If they're smart they'll add different styles as a base option.
>>1739441The map looks fine. What don't you like about it?
>>1739508stop falling for shitty bait
>>1739508Going to make some Grossgermiyanidiums
>>1739508It looks too plasticky and unimmersive. They should go for a more realistic and gritty design rather than a pseudo-mobile look.
>>1739508the lines in the water
>>1739508not a fan of the watercolor style they adopted starting with imperator desu.
the map is one of the earliest things that will be modded, calm down retards
>>1739749And they apparently have an option to turn off the forced zoomed in 3d terrain
>>1739508What's wrong with a paper map without hideous, vomiting inducing bleedthrough of terrain?
Hmm guys, Johan promissed to take community feedback this time, what's the chance we may see them rolling back on complexity because of those tard's? autist bros we just keep taking L after L
>>1739749nobody has claimed otherwise
>>1739761What complexity? this is victoria lite, how dumb are eu tards? there's nothing remotely complex about it
>real life:>the duchy of Burgundy et. al spat out of France>every fucking hapsburg ever ruling as an archduke in his own right, with fiefs ranging from Austria Proper and Styria to two villages in Swabia and a bailiwick in Alsace>electoral saxony and God knows how many Albertine duchies of saxony>fucking Baden split into Baden-Baden and Baden Durlach>Europa Universalis>ai starts blobbing away to it's heart's content as soon as the game unpauses, without player intervention England is going to eat half of Scotland and the HRE look like the German mediatisation has already taken place 15 years into the game
>>1739768this game will have real warfare, maritine, diplomatic, supply and trade systems
>>1739760>vomiting inducing bleedthrough of terrainThat doesn't happen here.
>>1739768>how dumb are eu tardsDumbest fanbase of all pdx slop, even goi has more complexity than "use mana to press button and get instant cores and bonus lmao"
>>1739779So why can I see it on the other map and to a lesser degree the one in your post?
>>1739782>Dumbest fanbase of all pdx slopsecond dumbest after crusader kings fans who gobble up dlc that's just a collection of fart jokes
>>1739782LOL, viggers really wanna talk about modifiers? lmao your game is unseasoned food, dare you to try and understand trade and what all the modifiers in eu actually do, you literally just build liquor factories and the 5-1-5 army and call it complexity, shut the fuck up
>>1739792You're seeing something that doesn't exist. Johan already confirmed some time ago that there's no terrain bleedthrough in the political map mode
>>1739814Liquitoria sisters...our response??????
>>1739832build more factories
Is it true the start date will be 1337? That's probably means it's going to include some major railroading to get map in the 1800s to look kind of like it should. Or they gave up entirely.
It looks promising right now but I'm going to wait till I see if and how they change warfare and diplomacy before forming an opinion about it.
>>1739832Don't care, its OUR game now, cry me a river modifier/mana baby, you WILL build liquor factories and you WILL love it
>eu5 will have stockpiles, automatization and foreign investment at launch>meanwhile the "Economy" simulator will only get one of these features nearly 2 years after releasewizsisters.... its not fair....
>>1739855Yes, it's true.
>>1739856>change warfareI don't think they need to change it, during the time period single armies ducking it out on some battlefield was how warfare worked. No gay frontline and stuff like that
>>1739966it needs tons of changing. and by that I don't mean frontlines
>>1739855Why?
>>1737807Salted meat is excellent
>>1739855>That's probably means it's going to include some major railroading to get map in the 1800s to look kind of like it should.I have never played an EU game where the map looked anything like it's "supposed to" in the 1800s and I don't understand all the people who pretend that it did, or that 1337 sucks because something that almost never happened won't happen
>>1737888>>1737888they didn't solve it tho, they went out in search of spices but never used them
>>1740065Spices were used to mask rotten food in the middle ages, europeans distrusted any spiced food thanks to this old practice
>>1740075that's cope
>>1740119Yeah, using spice on food is indeed coping with their rotten state
>>1740135meanwhile, pasty white norwegians eat rotten fish from a can (and still don't season it)
Why are there shitskins in /vst/?
>>1740190Probably Indians who want to play out their fantasies of India being relevant and significant.
>>1740167>Northoids are barbaric subhumansWho would've guessed, not like the greeks and romans had already told us long ago
>>1740197
>>1740200S*rdinian never been considered human
>>1740200Cheese in general is disgusted. It's ALL rotten milk.
>>1740195>the jewel in the crown of the British Empire>the mythical land of Hindustan>the literal reason Europe went across the ocean and around Africa>and Americans are called Indians>insignificant???
>>1740242>Cheese in general is disgusted.go back to school Trayvon...
>>1740531>it's the damn tools again
>>1740531we really need to start cataloging all the different goods we know so far
>>1738884Previous poster here. You are right in that way. A bad harvest would mean eating moldy bread, disgusting beets and whatever the hell could be considered edible. I didn't say, "they would eat somewhat well for half the year" for no reason at all. At least there were relief measures by nobles (who didn't want their clients to die) and the clergy (who didn't want their parish to die) to alleviate some of the pain. The middle ages weren't the Irish potato famine, where soulless Anglo vermin, mind-raped my Malthus, would just let the micks die off or flee, while maintaining autisic laws about not shipping grain to Ireland
>cows>deer>salt>tools>leather>lumber>stone>paper>cloth>hemp>glass>naval supplies>weaponry>copper>tin>metalworks>books>marble>gold>beer>tar>clay
>>1740531>>1740568My dick is so fucking hard right now.
>>1739820>passable topographical features still visibleLol.
>>1740574What's this from?
>>1738134What a retard, glad you got filtered
>>1740197They both ate garum though
>>1740653anno 1800
>>1740531>over 70 resources>would you rather collect hides from cows or from deer?love meaningful choices in videogames :)
>>1740760I was gonna say something about situations where you can decide to get hides from deer and use your cattle for beef, but then remembered people should use every part of an animal they kill, so both methods should produce meat and hides.
>>1740760cows are renewable and more expensive
>>1737892It's a pastry designed specifically for military rations. Ordinary people weren't eating hardtack, they had proper breads made with yeast and flavoured with local herbs and spices (which did exist even in Europe - dill, rosemary, thyme, sage etc have never been hard to find).
>>1740760Presumably the cattle ranching and deer hunting industries will have very different inputs and outputs of their own.
fucking parashits everywhere
>>1740901oh uh, jotran isn't gonna like this one
>>1740531this is too abstract for my autism. what is 1.00 unit of cattle?
>>1740760like reforming into nonbinary sissycracy with a button :^)
>>1741078One cow
>>1741078Exactly one percent of 100 units of cattle.BTW read about Planck units my friend
>>1741078one thousand cows
>>1740531Assuming cattle (and I guess deer) also count as food, doesn't this mean in effect that your tanneries are costing you food production? Because it seems like the cow just gets converted entirely into leather and all the meat just disappears.Or do cattle ranches produces cows and food as separate distinct units? If that's the case I feel like it would make more sense for them to just produce hide instead of specifically "cow".
How do you think they'll prevent players from developing American or African tribes to advanced states? It would obviously be far too problematic to imply that they could've done so and just failed due to their own faults.
>>1741250I've discussed it before, but you basically give different continents different paths. For Americans you have Westernization as one option (Iroquois, Five Civilized Tribes), Relocation as another (Trail of Tears, Reservations, effectively a failure state), or Resistance (Sioux, Comanche). European colonies get their own paths separate from the European continent (stuff like Renaissance isn't really relevant in the colonies, and instead you get ideas like Independence or Representation, or otherwise).Early game in the Americas would be different, and basically you'd need to try to break the Bronze Age barrier.
>>1740926stop replying to yourself, you absolute failure of a human being
>>1740200This stuff is vile and banned in the rest of Italy, it's even hard to sell in Sardegna
>>1741250The main thing would be to give them as few tags as possible
>>1741200Could be that ranches and hunters already produce food and that icon refers to remains.
>>1741200>Assuming cattle (and I guess deer) also count as food, doesn't this mean in effect that your tanneries are costing you food production? Because it seems like the cow just gets converted entirely into leather and all the meat just disappears.If that's the case it probably won't be hard to mod in "hides" as a separate good that cattle ranches/deer hunting buildings produce in addition to meat
>>1741353"Less gameplay" never works for tribals. They need their own mechanics.
>>1741250Make them unplayable lmao. Even Victoria have the guts to do that, and it's 19th century. At this era you're not fighting humans there but mosquitoes and the mosquitoes are winning
>>1741595>Even Victoria have the guts to do thatJust so they could sell it as dlc later, but they fucked up so hard on core game mechanics that dlc's are focused on fixing that shit first
I'll be willing to bet the "become civilised" mechanic from imperator will be in for tribal tags, in an altered form
>>1741642Good, the AI never becomes civilised so only players will be able to uplift nigger tags.
>>1737807>Okay, fine, that's just one theory. But it's better than the "for Helth" or the "for Status" ones.How about "because it tasted good"?
>>1741698Yes, Europeans literally sailed off across the ocean into the unknown to marginally improve the taste of their already great tasting food, and some nicer feeling fabric.
>>1741753They weren't "sailing into the unknown" lol. Trade routes with the Far East were well established. Even after a muslim empire conquered Constantinople, Italians were more than willing to use the same routes and Columbus had to beg for funding a revisionist power that had something to gain from distrupting an existing order of trade routes.
>>1741256>break the bronze age barrier to advance independentlyI have to disagree. There is absolutely no way a bronze age state would independently develop iron working within decades or even centuries of the game starting. Not to mention, that even the most advanced nazive Ametican civilization, the Inca, while possesing knowlegde of bronze working, did not even use the wheel or have ridable animals. The distincition should be between bureaucratic states and tribal societies. Tribals should first need to reform into bueaucratic societies, through trade or being politically influenced by already settled states, be that a advanced native American power or a European colony. A bureaucratic/settles native Amrtican power should be able to adopt Western tech the way HPM handles it in Vicky 2, where trade with Westerners, wars against them (think of capturing Western craftsmen/weapons/tools) and domestic efforts like adopting Christianity, the Latin alphabet or utilizing already acquired Western technolgy should accelerate this process. At the end, you should be able to press some button and get access to the Eurasian tech tree, before that, you should only be able to access native American techs, like e.g. obsidian spiked clubs, maize agriculture or rudimentary metal working
>>1737717>>1740531Fuck off with this shit, I want to make meaningful choices on the Grand Strategy of my country, not micromanage what filling cabinets are used in government buildings.
>>1737807Bros really being putting all of europe with different climates and conditions on the same bag here as "medieval europe", what else could be expected when so many "historians" were funded by the Big Black Cock company
>>1741759Yup, Columbus got told to fuck off by the Portuguese crown since they already had access to the spices routes and were winning against the ottos
>>1738884>Medieval serf having access to pepper>In the middle of your implied famine, no lesslmao
>>1738030Internal management doesn't stop blobbing. Good AI does. That's why you don't see Grossgermaniums in MP.What internal management mechanics do is give the already bad AI more to deal with, which it can't handle as well as the player, letting player snowball even harder. See CIV 6 - adding extensive internal management mechanics actually made the game easier vs it's predecessors, because AI cannot handle it.
>>1741893luckily you're ain't in charge chuddie
>>1737876this do be them thurd worlders last and only cope hehehe. like ive seen this diaspora indian girl on shittok complaining about white ppl food whenever somebody asked her about indian scammer saaars
>>1741915Most irl blobs were stopped by internal issue or their bureaucracy being unable to cope with more land
>>1737611Hope they improve/expand on the "strategic resources" and "trading in bonus" thing that was in EU4, because it's all but irrelevant unless you're MQing>>1738046>Click import good>get embargoed>manually click off embargoed routes>Click import good again elsewhere>Get embargoed againrinse and repeat, I know that HOI4 deals with only 6 resources instead of howeverthefuckmany V3ki does, but I prefer their trade window when dealing with that shit.>>1739441As long as the game doesn't kick me into Terrain view when I zoom in, i'm gucchi>>1739775It's not paradox fault people despise partition>>1741256Can't wait to see retards sperg about the different paths being alt-history.>>1741250Make them unable to develop until *animals from the old world carried to New world event*, and gate advanced states behind either average or top development.
>>1740760Difference between having forests and having pastures
>>1738030game design philosophy shifted from>give the players a challenge that will keep them hooked on and playing our gameto >players don't like to lose, make sure the game doesn't have features they might find frustrating or they won't play our title
>>1741967Oh? How about you name a few? Are you one of those retards that think Rome was brought down due to degeneracy? Even if you are right EU is not real life - real countries are not ruled by dumb algoritm that can't properly play the game, except one that is ruled by a divine being with knowledge of history and which meta flowchart he needs to apply to any internal problem.More complex internal management = worse AI = easier to blob (all other things being equal)
>>1742057cont.You would have an argument if said that empires fall because internal mismanagement makes them more vurnable to external threats (multiple Chinese dynasties, Spain, etc.) but even that requires AI to be able to seize that opportunity.
>>1738030It tries to punish them by simply making blobbing more obnoxious, rather than actually challenging. Which makes me want to turn-off the game, rather than deal with the issues.
>>1742084>It tries to punish them by simply making blobbing more obnoxiousthey failed, since all of their efforts are easily circumvented
>>1737591>epic productionerionionon lol!real talk, inauguration diplomas and electoral capitulations should be a thing desulike, a pretty common thing in central Europe with elective monarchies was that a newly elected king would promise a bunch of stuff to the nobility
>>1742084cont. As it stands there are three ways to prevent blobbing:1.) Lower the skill ceiling for internal mangement so that there is less of a difference between players and AI.2.) Make AI better.These two will however never happen, since EU players are shitters who hate losing. So the only option is 3.) Get over your crippling social anxiety find some autists to play MP with.
>>1742149Some information should be hidden unless you're in debug modeLike when a rebellion is going to pop, the stats of your generals, etc. It's a bit silly that you can react precisely to things that haven't even happened yetThey could also take cues from theories like Strauss-Howe and Spengler
>>1742057Like everyone? Why do you think empires stopped when they were the top dog in their region? Simply because continuing growing wasn't sustainable by their administration bureaucracy and/or the costs would outweigh the benefits
>>1742120whats that tho
>>1742172>it was revealed to me in a dream>>1742167I agree. That won't stop blobbing, though.
>>1742172Also, see>>1742069
>>1742172>Why do you think empires stopped when they were the top dog in their region?Often when they butted up against equally powerful empires that they couldn't crack. Rome wanted to expand east into Persia but kept being repelled, and vice-versa. The rest of the land in Europe that they could have expanded to was functionally worthless in that time period and they had no interest regardless. Later European empires just kept blobbing all over the planet until they butted up against each other, and only collapsed thanks to the expenses of two consecutive German chimpouts.
>>1742206>I agree. That won't stop blobbing, though.Blobbing is kind of the way of the worldHonestly the way I'd try to deal with it is have a special kind of AE for great powers, making them likely to temporarily sell condots and give subsidies to nations you're at war with to try and force a stalemate. That's the closest to how it plays out in real life. Obviously becomes irrelevant once you're xbox huge but the point is to stop you getting there 80 years into the gameCorruption too. Such a major problem irl but in game its just a weird ass mechanic that nobody cares about
>>1742185ike when John of Luxembourg became king of Bohemia in 1310 he had to promise a bunch of privileges to the Czech estates, like:1) He would respect the jurisdiction of the land court and not intervene in its affairs (the land court was basically the court for the nobility which the nobility run itself)2) He would not collect taxes except in specified instances.3) He surrendered some of his right of escheat (Bohemian kings did this repeatedly by the way)4) He promised not to appoint foreigners into government office, only Bohemians/Moravians (depending on the land)
>>1742227Rome won multiple times against them but it was simply too far away to conquer it and integrate. If it was eu iv instead Rome would've simply clicked the core button and absorbe the parthians
I think people are looking too deep into this.I still believe that blobbing will be the main appeal of this game. Johan said that the economic aspect of the game makes peacetime more interesting, something that notoriously EU4 lacked.That to me doesn't sound like an eschewing of the warfare and blobbing aspect of the game
>>1742244>Rome won multiple times against themAnd lost multiple times as well.
>>1742250The Persian-Roman eternal feud that caused both of them to get raped by Muslims will always be a funny point in history
>>1742299The times they won they completely steamrolled them, Ctesiphon was sacked 5 times. Persians never got close until Byzantine times.
>>1742149And the MPfaggot finally reveals himself. No amount of AI improvements will save AI from an opponent that's twice their economy and military.
>>1742250Warfare is solved, and blobbing is boring. I WANT them to eschew it. I don't care what gaggle of retards they attracted before. They did if with Victoria 3, they can do it again.
>>1737701Historically speaking, choosing a writing medium for a kingdom was an enormous decision that could have far reaching consequences. One example is Spain, which had/inherited some of Europe's first paper mills. Not being restricted to vellum meant far more could be written down about all manner of things, providing the government with more information. Phillip II was a famous micromanager of his empire, enabled by cheap paper for the sending of orders and a class of officers, bureaucrats, and priests who could all read said orders, because books were not quite as rare for the preceding 300 years.
>>1742411MP is the only way to get anything resembling strategy from Paracucks. SP is just powerfantasy larping as your favourite country/religion/ideology.
>>1742457Then why not play Starcraft, Age of Empires 2 or even Chess?
>>1742411Why do you think player has twice the amount of economy than AI? Think retard-kun, think! It's because AI does not know how to play the game Paradox has made. There is no demand for good AI for it because Paradox players are shitters who only want win.
>>1742462Or maybe the player just checks what their opponent has got, and declares wars they know they can win. Crazy, isn't it?
>>1742459Because I find those less entertaining than Paradox MP. All of those are missing nation-building and diplomatic aspect (latter is the core appeal of Paradox MP).
>>1742466>diplomatic aspect>is the core appealThat's weird, I could've swore the mechanic exists only to interact with AI. Just having a text chat feature in multiplayer is so much deeper.
>>1742105It sure was succesfull at getting me to Alt+F4 out of annoyance though. So in a way, it did prevent me blobbing.
>>1742468Yeah, that's what I mean.
>>1742471And you will continue to enjoy features meant for single-player, claim NONE OF THEM, and be at the bottom of the priority list, behind modders.
>>1742473Lol, hate to be the one break it to you but all Johan games are balanced around his in-house MP games.Well, continue playing against bad AI for all you want. You won't get what you want unfortunately (internal mechanics that stop blobbing), since what you want is fundamentally incoherent until AI can match a human in internal management of the empire.>The MP balance is relevant for the game to work as a "play any nation in a vibrant world". Explaining why its important to a bunch of players is a bit like trying to explain algebra to 3 year olds.. " t. Johan Paradox
>>1739101I played later startdates, before they beacame obsolete. I think it was somewhere around the first(maybe second) general government rework. Not the one with reform points, but the one before that>>1739146They could at least maintain the 'bookmarks' on the left side, like when I look at them right now when starting a game, they only irritate/sadden me.>>1739137>Gaslighting
>>1742479AI can match, or even outpace humans in internal management. What AI can't do worth jack shit ever is trade(not the in-game meaning) based diplomacy, which is one of the reason that war score system is a fucking byzantine codex, and why there are so many 'systems' in place that are meant to simulate that, that become completely irrelevant when both sides are players.
Anons share your thoughts on this Idea: It should not be possible to conquer the world as Ryukyu. World conquest should only be possible by a few dozen starting countries if that. If you start out as ryukyu then you might be able to become emperor of china by the end of the game but gamey shit like WC by irrelevant minors should not be a thing in the game. This would be an entirely different philosophy than EU4 and closer to something like Victoria (never played)
>>1742507>AI can match human in internal managementYou might be not wrong, but first Paradox would implement it. Which they won't. Because players don't want that.
>>1742516cont.They can't even bring themselves to make AE/Infamy not decay in any of their games, even though realisticaly it shouldn't (or only very very slowly). That alone points to the fact they have no intention of ever making AI a serious threat. Which, again, they shouldn't. From a business perspective it would be a bad move - strategy game players really really really hate to lose.
>>1742512but the hecking map painter chievos!!
>>1742512The problem with the WC map painting philosophy is that it views map painting all wrong. Rather than trying to paint a map in a single color, you should be shooting for an interesting end game map where different outcomes across the globe are achieved. If you're playing as Ryukyu, maybe you can affect who is controlling the British islands - but that doesn't necessarily have to be you, and you don't necessarily have to contribute militarily either.Simple mechanics only produce simplistic results.
>>1742516>>1742525AE/infamy is unrealistic in the first place. I'm not going to be full-blown cynical with the "Power politics is the only thing that matters, and everyone should either gang up to fight a big enemy or tear apart a small one indiscriminately" , because despite it being the quintesence of a map game, fighting for territory wasn't all people and governments cared about constantly at that time.(Yes I recognize that you don't give a fuck and want the AI to be a threat instead of making sense, but fuck you I don't want a game where the whole world gangs up on you because it makes a better challenge for le map painter) But for the most part, while there may be some grudges held between specific people, for the most part states were very flexible with their allegiances and allies/enemies of convienience. What would be needed isn't to make some sort of bigger blocks to stall out the game, but for AI to have more occasion tto interfere with the player(and other AI) quickly, consequences be damned. DESU Truces, at least as they are implemented in the game, shouldn't be a thing, or at least should be way shorter, and immedietaly voided if the country in question starts any war.One example I'd say is if France for ex. invaded northern Italy, let's say Savoy, no one would wait for the war to end to get "angry" at France, in fact at the war ending whatever come out of it would more than likely bbe accepted as new order/status quo. The moment all of Pope, Emperor, Spanish King and English one would jump on France was the very beginning of the war, most truces and agreements be damned.Same with many Lithuanian and Polish wars with Muscovy/Russia started with one of the countries trying to conquer/vassalize an unrelated third-party.The only issue is that savyy player would make yourself beloved by every country that would/could be interested, and then conquer stuff with the world's full aproval, because AI is diplomatically dumb, and soft with its aims
>>1742579>One example I'd say is if France for ex. invaded northern Italy, let's say Savoy, no one would wait for the war to end to get "angry" at France, in fact at the war ending whatever come out of it would more than likely bbe accepted as new order/status quo. The moment all of Pope, Emperor, Spanish King and English one would jump on France was the very beginning of the war, most truces and agreements be damned.The issue here is that because there's no concept of limited wars you'd be getting unrealistically massive conflicts all the time. Spain intervening in the French invasion of Savoy shouldn't be Spain marching 50k men into Aquitaine but that's how it works in game.
>>1742588Well, you could curtail this somewhat with a better military system, but part of this does mean either moving away from toy soldiers - direct or no - into a more abstracted form of warfare (such as HoI4 air's "bases and missions" system) or having some kind of warfare escalation where the amount you can deploy is limited depending on your involvement (but at the same time, war goals against you are limited unless the war escalates).Even if it was a bases and missions system you'd still want some kind of limitation, but bases and missions puts inherent limits on deployment distance and such, where just having supply costs and the like do not.
>>1742512>It should not be possible to conquer the world as Ryukyusend me back in time i could do it
>>1742588Well, honestly that would be what would happen, eventually, just not at the start, just like a player would either commit all their forces at once to finish things decisively if there was a real danger to your country from that war, or just send one stack to maybe help out somewhere far away while you go back to doing what you doing, but the AI has no concept of "How much am I interested in the current conflict" (EU4 tries to simulate sth slightly overlapping with "war enthusiasm" but it's an orphaned mechanic that only matters for peacing out separately, not for AI cutting their losses while still in the war) , and Spain is doubly bad example heere (better would be England after they're no longer on mainland which is usually when France would look south, or HREmperor) Because they specifically have every reason to use all the forces they have to both fight over Italian dominance and when intervening specifically against neighbouring France.If it's gainst a rival neighbour the conflict should turn massive. When it's 3rd parties jumping in, they should do so with reserve(like any war involving Brandernurg and Saxony with either being "the instigator" would make them give 100% to fuck the other, because in essence the one intervening "uses" their rival disrupting the status quo to fuck them over with support and indemnity.Honestly any kind of war declaration or breaking the status quo internally should put a diplomatic flashing target on your back for everyone around you way more than it currently does, and way faster too.That should be a real trade-off between interfering early when you're seen as in the right, or intervening late, when they're already weakened by war (I sometimes think the CB system should be way weaker than it currently is, but stacking with each casus) 1/2
>>17426162/2 Right now most "you've fucked up internally" moments give you a -1stab which isn't even worth mentioning most of the time, while it should also give case for other countries to interfere with your country in a more hands on manner, but so far only very few specific flavor questlines allow that, like the Time of Troubles in Russia allows Poland/PLC to send troops to support a claimant once, and Castillan civil war lets either Aragon or Portugal interfere also. Unfortunately most events are like the "cardinal bribed", in that they present another player/ai an opportunity to either "attack" or not anotherr country, whereas imo there should be more both random and triggered events where you end up vulnerable to other country "decisions" or suffer a big cost not to.
>>1742512It shouldn't be impossible, it just shouldn't make any sense or be profitable, which is what the Control mechanic is for. You simply can't ever completely overcome the tyranny of distance. You can go for a WC just for game purposes but your nation will be in ruins, the estates will be seething, separatists will be claiming independence everywhere, and your treasury will always be empty. which makes complete sense. It has less to do with who you start as and more to do with "how do I even control all these people at once" (the answer is you don't)
>>1741250The Sahel states had a chance, but lost it due to the way things played out IRL. The others would need very precise and unrealistic circumstances to make up for a longstanding population density cap. Only workaround for Africans is a food production colony. As far as "advanced states" go, that's just a reflection of bureaucracy, which would be needlessly expensive for states with low population density.
>>1739814>5-1-5not even the correct meta template >you literally just build liquor factories>he actually fell for the civilian goods factory memelmfao. wouldnt expect any less from an EUtard.
>>1742512WC should be almost impossible for any tag
>>1742648With technology, investment in administration, and A LOT of use of puppets and proxies, you should be able to have an empire that spans... 15% of the world by game's end. Hard cap. Whiners about "mana" or "arbitrary caps" get fed their own teeth.
>>1742579AE, infamy exist as crutch for the AI. You could argue it's not realistic, but so are tons of other things about the AI, so if you single out this one I am going to presume you just want the game to be easier. The problem is you can just stop conquering for 10 years and poof! It's gone!>you just challenge for le map painterMap painting is when expanding becomes so trivial it becomes functionally equivavalent to painting the map in MS Paint. I hate how retards ran away with the word and took it to mean "any expansion past neat historical borders what'soever". Funny how I want to want make that harder and riskier and yet I am the map painter here.
>>1742782That's what "client states" are supposedly for.They come in too late to matter for a game, though, and there's not enough mechanical interaction with your vassals/etc. And no, I don't mean getting specific new mechanics like stealing generals or dev, I mean interacting with all the mechanics that are already there for any given country, but that you as a overlord should be able to strongly interact with, if not all of the time, and back in turn, your vassals should be able to weakly interact with yours. For example I believe proportional vassal dev (and autonomy) should interact with your "reform progress" the same way it interacts with the "Great Power" ranking, and rebels should actually be shared, not just displayed as shared. Likewise, "state effects" should be shared too. I know it would lead to complaints about "vassal AI fucking things up/not doing what the player wants it too" but that's actually better than players not caring about their vassals Ai at all outside of war.Also estates (Oh God the estates)
>>1742791I'm singling it out, because some retard said "AE should not decay", where AE is already gamey as fuck thing that's only there to impede progress, and what that would to is turn it into the situation in the vast majority of the TW games and some Civ versions, where after a point all the "diplomacy" in the game gets impossible, and you're playing war all the time, not because you chose/choose to, but because the game locked you out of half its mechanics.My main problem with AE, is that it punishes a player after a conquest, not during, but that's not AE's fault, but several mechanics built into EU4 to make sure neither the AI nor the player can really "jump and kill" each other, mostly because a competent player could go and kill half of europe before the AI realized what's happening, hence the bberaucracy between actions got prolonged to give AI time to react, instead of making the AI react faster
>>1742803Yes, Realm Divide is a great mechanic. And this doesn't affect unless you are already map painiting, so what's your problem, non-map-painter?
>>1742871cont.I really wish people would stop being delusional - they aren't le mega deep geopolitics and history simulators, they are 4X not too dofferent from Civ, except they are on a real world map instead of hexagonal board.
>>1742874*Paradox games aren't
>>1742457>SP is just powerfantasy larping as your favourite country/religion/ideology.He's just like me fr fr.
I do be like thatI do be playan', paintan' and genocidan' as the roman empireI do be deletan' the roaches from history both in-game and out-game
>>1742871>>1742874Realm Divide makes all Shogun playthroughs the same, there's usually no reason to play the game anymore after it happens, because it will mimic any other to a tee from that point on.It's not about waxing lyrical, but if you don't want your games do differ from playthrough to playthrough arcade or puzzle games might be more your alley.
>>1737701Just go and play Risk then?
I am curious about why people in the forums seem to hate mission trees so much. I understand if they complained about how the mission rewards got increasingly better over time and all that, but it doesn't seem like that's their main argument. They complain about railroading, how it will utterly ruin the sandbox, about how it is immersion-breaking, and how it makes nations without mission trees unplayable.But from what I've seen, the vast, vast majority of people actually like mission trees. So why is such a vocal minority screeching so loudly about how their perfect sandbox is ruined by having them in Project Caesar? Can't they understand that 'something I personally don't like =/= something bad'?Idk, call me smooth brained or a normie for liking mission trees, but it just feels like not having missions in Caesar would be a bad move. It is one of Eu4 and Hoi4's most popular features, and from my experience most people both in real life and in games actually do like to be railroaded and to have a narrative to follow or goal to reach.
The latest dev diary is gonna be posted soonYou guys excited?
>>1745094If you unironically like mission trees please kys
>>1745094they could just add an option to disable them, or even better bring back the EU3 mission system so each time you're free to pick the historical or sandboxy option.
>>1745098kinda it's the only reason i just got to this thread. so you guys can tell me the cool shit in it
>>1745094i like mission trees. it gives me something to aim for. structure. but people like sandbox, and mission trees force a certain meta - deviate from that meta and you're playing inefficiently. and that's a sucky feeling.
It's up:https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-10-1st-of-may-2024.1673745/
>>1745161>Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.>Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.>Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.>trade nodes with dynamic bordersLET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Where are the autists hiding? I need them to draw the complete borders of Europe based only upon the markets map. It's already been more than five minutes.Also, why do the flags look so ugly? Did they really think a wave effect was a good idea?
>>1745161dutchbros...
>>1745161>netherlands part of the london marketcringe>france is not just a big blobbased
>>1745172>>1745175You vill trade in London and you vill be happy
>>1745175>netherlands part of the london marketIt was though. The Anglo-Dutch will to textiles trade of the medieval period built (for the BBC) both countries.
>>1745161I find it hard to believe this is the rhe sequel to EU4 desu.
I can't wait to play portugal and marketblob all the way from lisbon to india
>>1745161look at that sweet sweet HRE bordergore...Also i notice an independent Wales which should be fun
>>1745179>will to textiles*wool to textiles
>>1745195>independent WalesIt isn'tTechnically north was owned by crown and south by marcher lords(norman-english) with welsh being only petty nobles in the Powys (middle of wales) which started last rebellion later onJohan supposedly didn't bother and merged everything into one vassal of England "due to performance issues"(meanwhile hrt the country gets full autism treatment)
>>1745221nobody gives a fuck about your trannyisland
>provinces dont need to be adjacent to the market center to tradeOUR RESPONSE WIZSISTERS?????
My knees fall once more
Are we about to witness the release of greatest GSG in history?
Why is this happeningWhy is EU5 a victoria2 sequel instead of victoria3 lol Paradox must be operating with some weird logic here
>>1745254Because Johan has embraced his redemption arc and I will remain forever kneeling.
>kyivpass
>>kyiv>pass
>>>kyiv>>pass
>>1745254Paradox is giving Johan one chance to make the game that the hardcore fans have been begging for all these years. It'll be the last time it happens because people will pirate it anyway and the casuals who normally buy their games and dlc will be too filtered to want to buy in as you can see:>>1738878>>1738879
>>1745267>>>>kyiv>>>pass
>>>>>kyiv>>>>pass
>>1745272blacks don't support ukraine albiet, they complain that the funding isn't going to them instead
>>1745268Holy mother of… i dont know what to say, do people want to paint map that much? When most of the things i do in a GS game are just starting wars to gain more territories I always think sth must be wrong
Why cant chuds accept the fact that nobody in the world want to join Russia side accept for a bunch of retards and rice eaters
>>1745273Sometimes more than just that.
What does Russia have to do with the english language?Kyiv looks like shit, it has always been Kiev. Nu-speak is legit cancer and anyone defending it needs to die.
it should be Kijevas desu
>>1745161i can;t believe nobody compiled the maps and made it into one big map yet, rare autism L
>>1745262broke: just making it kyiv because the modern ukrainian government says sobespoke: doing research on how it was actually spelt back then to make both modern hohols and ziggers seethe
>>1745193wont work like this
>>1745161>kyivfucking called it lmfao
Imagine being an anglocuck who has to change the way he speaks in order not to be against the current thing lmfao>it's BHARAT>it's KYIV>it's TURKIYE>it's MA'AM
must suck being an EOL
>>1745161>kievofficially confirmed pozzed, nobody play this globohomo slop
>>1745300Oh yeah, lets see how you do it irl tough guy, while not hiding behind the screen
>>1745290>doing research on how it was actually spelt back then to make both modern hohols and ziggers seetheIt was literally spelt Кїєв or Києв. Even hohol orthographic modernizations of old texts don't dispute thisAt best you can argue it could be Ky(j)ev depending on the actual value of и in those manuscripts (and that's unlikely considering it alternates with hohol i) but Keeeev is 100% current thing pandering
>>1745172>dutchwasn't made up yet during the time period
>>1745316When were Dutch people invented?
>>1745312see me do what?English isn't my 1st language, I don't have to follow the nu-speak
>>1745318the Dutch or Nederlander identity didn't coalesce until the 16th century, prior to that they had no centralised identity
>>1745316>>1745320modern """"historians"""" need to be culled
>>1745327you know nothing about dutch history, amerifatno historian would ever argue otherwise
>>1745335>you are wrong because... you're american
>>1745339yes, and?
>>1745335if you are european with that opinion you are literally a cuckoldpeople here knew exactly who they were even 1000 years ago
>>1745339you are both wrong and americanit was the result of a burgeoning national identity post-revolt, you never learned this in school (let alone much else due to american education)
>>1745344lmaookay tell me when angloids saw themselves as angloidsalso germans, french, italians and spanish please
>>1745343people living in modern-day netherlands never used the term "dutch" or "nederlander" as this was an identity only necessitated by the coalescence of a nation, they would use localised terms like frysian, brabander, etc as there was obviously no united netherlands back then
>>1745347>okay tell me when angloids saw themselves as angloids>also germans, french, italiansliterally the iron age>spanishsome of them haven't got the message to this day
>>1745349maybe you should look up what "dutch" means
>>1745350>literally the iron ageanon the people living in modern-day france back then were various tribes of gauls, some in the process of being assimilated into latin culture and identity, and the germanic tribe that would eventually lend their name to the eventual nation of france was still wandering around central europe at this time
>>1745352I'll do it for youhttps://www.etymonline.com/word/Dutch>used after c. 1600 in the narrower sense "Hollanders, residents of the Netherlands."
>>1745350Retarded american with no knowledge about nationalism
>>1745356so you just ignore the fact that this word was already in use for hundreds of years?
>>1745363That's what happens when your nation is only a couple hundred years old, did not exist prior to the rise of nation-states, and your education system is complete rubbish. They unironically think Romans were going around calling themselves Italians and the Gallic tribes were calling themselves Frenchmen.
nationalism was a step on the road toward globalism. nationalism was used by certain european elites to grow and centralize authority.
anon knows better than the diverse and intelligent paradox employees
>>1745369shite attempt at moving the goalpost, mutt
>>1745377nah you are the mutt
>>1745371>They unironically think Romans were going around calling themselves Italians and the Gallic tribes were calling themselves Frenchmen.romans did see themselves as italians, greeks saw themselves as greeks and germans saw themselves as germans though
I HOPE PDX ADD AS MANY WOKE ELEMENTS AS POSSIBLE, FUCKING VIGGERS YOU STOLE OUR GAME BECAUSE YOU WERE TOO COWARD TO MAKE V3 WHAT YOU WANTED, NOBODY WILL PLAY THIS SHIT, NO EU PLAYER EVER ASKED FOR THIS, DISGUSTING THIEVES HOPE YOUR SHIT EU VICTORIA CHOKES ON A BBC AND DIE WITH LESS THAN 1K PLAYERS
tranny seething again lol
It seems (national) creation myths are strong around here, and one of the most cliché feature of those myths is insisting that something always existed.Nationalism isn't due for a few centuries. For now, it's all about the inbred Germans.
>>1745161Bros, why did they exclude Iberia from the map? Is there something they aren't telling us? Did they delete portugal? Are there m-muslims in Iberia? They have shown all of Europe except for the westernmost tip of it, what's up with that? I want to see how Iberia looks in 1337, I only know how it looks like in the 1444 start date, I need to know the lore.
normal people >hey man have you seen the new formables in euv shit is SO cash
>>1745398This is Spanish lore.
>EU troons are already seething that their mana game is goneLMAO, get fucked mana baby
>>1745161>Venice instead of Venezia>But Kiev is replaced with KyivWhy do yurocucks simp so much for hoholistan
>>1745406That's the first time I've seen someone get mad at this game for being too much like Victoria.
>>1745420Bro, just go to any comment section from people covering it or even pdx foruns, the seething is growing with each economic diary, EU nibbas just want to press button and go home
>>1745425>pdx forums>Praise be JohanWell, they certainly don't show up in the dev diaries themselves.
>>1745417Ghiaccio, is that you?
>>1745425>Bro, just go to any comment section from people covering it or even pdx forunsI don't see anything on steam, pdx forums or even r*ddit. Most of the criticism and worries comes from here.
>>1745434Maybe youtube comments of some faggot EU4 e-celeb?
>>1745435Yeah, is mostly on youtube, there was some screenshots on the last thread from it
I'm... just going to change it to "kiev" in the loc file
Don't worry we just gonna change it to kiev, irl
>>1745460based
>>1745463Based, remember to also nuke poland once you're done in hoholistan
>>1745460>wefull support for russia saar
>>1745161When will they show actually relevant nations like America and Japan, nobody cares about europoors
>>1745481mindbroken weebmutt
>>1745483Cope, America is the protagonist of human history, everything humans ever did was only leading up to the point where the greatest country on earth would appear and inevitably dominate the world, also Japan is the cool former enemy turned friend sidekick to the protagonist
>>1745486I hate amerimutts so much
>>1745309obsessed robbie
>>1745161it's very encouraging how eu5 solves all the issues vic3's economy has discrete goods and actual shortages instead of buy/sell orders, smaller markets and more impactful transport costs, automation of trade and pms and to top it all off their production chains seem more indepth, too
>>1745417Easy vatnigger seethe generation.
game looks based as fuck, it seems king Johan is going full autism mode making the game he always wanted. Retards that dont like complexity can go hang themselves
>Kyiv is Kyiv because it's independent>conquer Kyiv as Muscovy/Russia, the province becomes Kiev>conquer Kyiv as Poland, the province becomes KiewThis is what is going to happen and all of this moaning will become forgotten by then
>>1745503Vatnigs will seethe anyways, everyone else will enjoy the dynamic names.
>>1745503There's no such thing as "ukranian" language, is literally made up, if poles were not so fixed on anti russian rhetoric and the war wasn't going on they would agree with me just like they did before it
>>1745512In fairness all "slavic" languages are just made-up garbage created by christian priests.
>>1745512there is no russian language either, its all a belarussian dialect
>>1745494Except there's no POP wealth, needs are fixed, there's no Standards of Living.>their production chains seem more indepth, tooThey aren't. They literally aren't.
All slavs are subhumans and angloids are even worse for staying in the way of the ubermensch trying to erradicate their plague from earth
>>1745538>pop wealth>standard of living>in the late middle ages and preindustrial eraIt would be almost static
Republic of Novgorod: Nordic AryansPrincipality of Muscovy: Mixed race Slavo-TatarsKeev/hohols: Khazar JewsI think we all know which nation should have unified Rus'
>>1745540If those mensch are so uber, why are subhumans capable of standing in their way?
>>1745543They didn't, other european races betrayed us and stood on our way, if it wasn't for them you wouldn't be here
>>1745541The point is the simulation is way, way simpler than in Vic3. So the "issues" aren't really solved, as they are simply dropped.And post Vic3 simulation would be even worse. God knows how one would simulate finance capital and deindustrialization.
>>17455441. They owe you their loyalty?2. Where's the uber, mensch?
>>1745544>invade every country you border>wtf why are they ganging up on me this is unfair :,(
>>1745540YOU LITERALLY INVENTED COMMUNISM GERMAN PIG "B-BUT, IT VAS ZE JEWWWS!" LITERAL COPE TO FLEE FROM RESPONSABILITY
>>1745550Not a single invasion wasn't unwarranted, France was pure payback, pooland was filled with subhuman slavs, jews and also stole our land, the rest was just cleaning the world from undesirables, anglo traitors had no reason to meddle and they still did
>>1745503I wanted to accuse you of schizophrenia but Prague is Praha and Cologne is Koln, but then none of the italian and byzantine cities are in their local name.
>>1745559No problem, italy was irrelevant as always
>>1745559>>1745560Could be just a work in progress. When did Buda get built? Pest looking lonely over there.
>>1745556Tell me how Belgium had it coming a second time after the germs blew their industry to smithereens the 1st time.Tell me how the Netherlands had it coming despite being neutral the 1st time.
>>1745567the german's lust for european blood is only matched by their record of losing european wars
>>1745567Two fake countries and cultures, "dutch" is just a german variation and belgium is a fake nation kept by anglos so they could enter the continent easily, both are just brainwashed germans, at least were, now they are more like morrocco
>>1745567belgium had it coming by having no right to existthe dutch had it coming by being jews
Johan-sama... I kneel.
>>1745575YIKES, Imperator never ending civil wars all over again
>>1745161anons, what goes on here?
>>1745578tax havens
>>1745578autarky
>>1745161>kyivsorry, dropped
>>1745349>>1745356dutch is literally just the english term for "Diets" you retardgo ahead and look up what that means
>>1745094>before mission cancer>make the friends i want, fabricate claims on my semi-randomized rivals and future targets, play the game normally, try different things>after mission cancer>build up army to forcelimit>this massive achievement grants me free claims over an entire subcontinent>same for the AI>they automatically enter the "hostile" stance because of the free claims>i am now railroaded into a certain playstyle of predetermined enemies and allies even if i never visit the mission tabbonus points for the fact that they doubled down on the mission system, locking countries into disasters unless you complete the mission treeso for certain countries such as mali, the game is literally unplayable unless you center your playthrough around the missions tabunfortunately this system was designed to appease the cancer of hoi4 genre tourists who thought that the "national focus" system was the best thing ever and wanted it copy-pasted in all paradox titles; paracuckolds naturally obliged
>>1745584it's even worse if you want to blob a certain unique way instead of the predetermined paradox way>so you don't want to blob all over europe as the roman empire but instead want to focus on colonizing the east? enjoy your maluses
>>1745094>most people like it therefore it's goodnpc
>>1745575why?
>>1745371>They unironically think Romans were going around calling themselves ItaliansThey... did though? Why are anti-nationalists so retarded?
>>1745094I hope you troon out and hang yourself, zoomie
>>1745503The question is: are they going to add an option for having all the places named by english toponyms and without localizaiton? I already know that if so, Kiev is going to be Kyiv too, because it was basically officially retconned in the west that for us is Kyiv e not Kiev and was always so. It's not about supporting Russia or Ukraine in the current war, it's that I despise following this silly mind games. We in the west feel like changing how we name a city is some kind of international smart move, and it's just cringe and silly.
>>1745611Even if english wikipedia is already retconned it is at least enough honest about the change of name, giving to it an historical context>Kyiv is the romanized official Ukrainian name for the city,[20][21] and it is used for legislative and official acts.[22] Kiev is the traditional English name for the city,[20][23][24] but because of its historical derivation from the Russian name, Kiev lost favor with many Western media outlets after the outbreak of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014 in conjunction with the KyivNotKiev campaign launched by Ukraine to change the way that international media were spelling the city's name.[25]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev
>>1745503With any luck it will be named nuclear wasteland soon
>>1745503It wasn't called Kyiv in Ruthenian/Ukrainian yet so that wouldn't make sense, they still just called it Kiev until the 1800s. Though the Poles renaming it to Kijow nice
>>1745094Because they make playthroughs samey.I don't want to have my every playthrough of Austria about being the emperor, but more than that I don't want every playthrough that I'm NOT doing as Austria, to Austria focus solely about being the Emperor and either suceeding or failing at that.That's why they should be toggle-able.
>they modelled the exact reasons why iberia explored for routes to india, the ottomans are going to gouge all of the europeons for access to silk and spicesI cant believe this game is real
>>1745161>next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!blobberbros we are so back
>>1745632it's not gonna actually be that good. for example i bet the ottomans will fail to grow very large in most games. but they might provide the groundwork for modders to be able to simulate that stuff better.
>>1738889Poly-gamy was frowned upon, anon
>>1745296>>1745300>>1745309>>1745315>>1745417>>1745581>>1745628>>1745613>>1745611HEHEHEHEHEHE
>>1745638Cute little janissary
A long time ago, the Italians called Kiev with the name Chiova
>>1745632Lies, because the ottomans are so weak in 1337. The chances of a single power securing the entire region and denying the west trade access is unlikely, meaning that in most games discovery and colonization of the new world wont even happen. Only way it will happen is with forced railroading, making the game shit or if no forced railroading then no colonization can occur because of GROßBYZANTIVM. eu5 is pointless due to failing to simulate this time period in either case.
>>1745641is that a ch like in "chuck" or like in "chemist"
>>1745315Kijów>>1745172>>1745316>>1745318>>1745320>>1745327>>1745335>>1745339>>1745341>>1745343>>1745344>>1745347>>1745349>>1745350>>1745352>>1745354>>1745356>>1745363>>1745369>>1745371>>1745377>>1745380>>1745385>>1745583Lesser Burgundian
>>1745642What are you talking about? Iberians starting exploring long before a single muslims power dominated the Eastern Mediterranean. They have nothing to do with each other.
>>1745638>oink oinkBased! Can't wait to form the Communist Social Democratic Cossack state of Kyiv and btfo the orcish Muscovite in Terra Universalis:5
>>1745644Chemist
>>1745649so the polish spelling with extra stepswhy are italians and poles so gay for each other?
>>1745648cry and weep all you want
>>1745635>>1745642ottomans will most definitely get a lucky nations type bonus and the byzantines will get a mali-tier disaster
>>1745635Another reason why there should be a 1453 start date
>>1745638Kijów is Polish! Niech Żyje Polska!
The Ottomans will most likely some events thst let them grow like other beyliks joining and the Gallipolli earthquake.The only thing I'm worried about is how hard Timur will rape them and if they can recover.
>>1745642The fall of Constantinople being responsible for colonization is a meme. The Portuguese were searching for a route to the orient well before then. Plus there’s no reason for the Ottomans to stop trading with the west for some retarded reason. That stupid theory never made sense.
>>1745771>never made senseWho. The FUCK. In the history of forever. EVER. Enjoyed dealing with middlemen?
bigger map
>>1745771before the ottomans europe was getting jewed by byzantium venice and genoa, portugal explored parts of africa just to find new markets. But it really wasnt until the ottoman empire conquered all avenues of the silk road that you get portugal and spain seriously investing into exploration
>>1745343Spaniards didn't exist in 1024, retard. Even today, the idea of Spanish as a unified culture or ethnicity is disputed, see Catalan and Basque separatist movements.
>>1745772The Byzantines were just as much of a middle man as the ottomans. Finding a route to the orient had nothing to do with the fall of their city but was an attempt by Western Europe to cut out that region altogether no matter who was in charge of it.
>>1745773AAAAAAAA NATIONAL ECONOMIC WATERS
>>1745559Johan subscribes to total shitalian death and total minor Ottoman speedbump death.
Will Johan save the Paradox race
>>1745773Where did the bigger map come from?
>>1745798x
>>1745792I love how the coast of brittany and normandy is in london's market.looks like they're the only sea tiles on the map that don't correspond to the coast
>>1745800there are british islands in the channel
>>1745800There's also the Adriatic coast which is all in Ragusa/Venice even when it borders Naples or Constantinople.
>>1745771finally a voice of reason. it's the white man spirit that was evolving in europe during the medieval ages and burst forth in the renaissance that explains the beginning of colonization.
>>1745778>But it really wasnt until the ottoman empire conquered all avenues of the silk roadBy the time the Ottos conquered Egypt (the biggest trading hub for spices), the Portuguese were already in India.
>>1745512>no such thing as "ukranian" language, is literally made upSo, same as every language ever?
>>1745347Generally the English identity is seen to have been formed around the rule of Alfred the Great so the late 800's, the true solidification of that identity though occurred throughout the Hundred Years war
>>1745773are there seriously going to be 200 nations between Italy and the hre?
>>1745611Anglos are peak retarded, not even about le kyiv but even with shitholes like turkey (read TURKIYE!!!)When is Italy going to be italia and japan nipponI'm trans if that matters
>>1745942>200 nations between Italy and the hre?>nationsNo>fiefs and statesYes
>>1745806>iberians>white
>>1745538The estates/elites have wealth, and I'm assuming the peasants would too in order to buy needed goods. I've seen Johan confirm that there are no "standards of living" or "wealth levels" that change pop needs in the latest tintotalk
>>1745094I currently playing Lübeck and enjoying the missions because they line up with what I wanted to do. The problem with them is that the rewards are so big it feels bad to ignore them but if you don't you end up with a very railroaded campaign for any country you pick.
>>1745915>Generally the English identity is seen to have been formed around the rule of Alfred the Great so the late 800Bede was talking about the English as a distinct people before that, and Gildas was talking about the Britons they conquered and displaced as a distinct people before that too
>>1745773>that absolutely shattered ireland ripe for the colonizing
>>1745773Was Castille really that centralised?
>>1746490Yeah, the Iberian states were pretty centralized since they were incorporating land directly back in from the Arabs. It’s not like other parts of Europe who had to enough time to sit around and fracture because of shitty inheritance laws
>>1746658Interesting how after like 1600 Spain became more notable for being one of the least centralised in Europe.
>>1746413The idea of England predates Alfred but he's the one that turned theory into reality. The word "Anglo-Saxon" is the hint. it was the merging of the Germanic tribes of Britain into one people >And the Britons before thatYes but I was talking about the modern English identity, the Britons were more the basis of the Welsh identity
>>1746490It had civil wars but it doesn't seem to me you can get away with represnting it as a collection of vassals
>>1746658interesting so that's why spain was so dominant for a few centuries.
>>1746901>The idea of England predates Alfred but he's the one that turned theory into realityThat's what I mean. The English were a people that Alfred united, not a people he invented
>>1747103i think that was also because they got a retarded amount of money from mines in the new world
>>1747158Certainly helped to some extend, especially with the lack of access to gold europe had due to the Muslim owned areas in the east. Long term those kind of tanked the market and caused huge amounts of inflation.
