Band music editionhttps://youtu.be/LiwaPnNb_oQ>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious: >>121551276
Not music
>>121572866>lust-provoking imagelifeforce vampire
how do people rate mahler among symphonists? like is he considered one of the very best ever? i'm pretty uninformed but his symphonies seem to continually engage like few other composers
>>121572866thank you tranime sister
>>121572907top-tieramong the regulars in this general? top-top-tier
>>121572929well who would be widely considered to outrank him besides beethoven?
Is this classical and where can I find more like it?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOWc6muojm4
>>121573002No one. That was just my way of saying no one dislikes him here.
>>121573011not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
>>121573001>i don’t know, have you actually heard any of them? they don’t even exist in the same universeBeethoven's late string quartets >> Brahms' sq's > Beethoven's other sq'sjust imo
>>121573038it’s ok, not all of us can have correct opinions.
>can't write a truly original melody that isn't meandering except when he adopts orientalism >leaves in every idea he comes up with as if to pad the movement in his long journey back to the home key>endless sequences>can't write a good coda to save his life>basically just synthesizes Schubert with Wagnerwhy is this guy so hailed as a master?
>>121573087comically stupid
Giving Celibidache's Bruckner 7 a try after seeing another anon recommend his Bruckner a few days ago. Have only heard Jochum's otherwise.
>>121573002Mozart
>>121573093incredibly foul
>>121573091properly pestilent
Bach and before
>>121573113You can't only just listen to the great stuff, sometimes you gotta listen to the bad too in order to know how the two are distinguished. Not to say that it will be bad, but you get my point.
>>121573091>>121573113>>121573122your presence in these threads is always offputting and no one finds it humorous
>>121573122totally retarded>>121573139it will be bad.
>>121573087because he just is okay?
>>121573124utterly pathetic>>121573150massive crybaby
>>121573156mosquito membrane
Ives and after.
>>121572866why are her yes so big?no socks in school why?who ears that kind of uniform? is she from a rich elite school?why is her face so devoided of expressions?
>>121573023It's got violins and orchestras n shiet.The algorithm heard my call:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LULjLi_jiFY
>>121573177nonsense as always>>121573137>>121573182thank you RYMsister>>121573184not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/a/ instead, tranime sister?>>121573189not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
>>121573156>it will be bad.btw, if you or whoever know and can answer, which of these two Jochum sets is better?
>>121573247probably dresden, but both are good
>>121573269Thanks.
>>121572907His music is easy to get into, but also easy to grow out of.
>>121573173just stating a fact. go eat some acid and radically change your personality, your presence is very tiresome in what could be one of the few decent generals on this board
>>121573370brainfried druggie
>>121573370He adds character and is often helpful. Just consider his insults (compulsive) banter and don't take them to heart.
>>121573406please leave the pillhead alone, he only hurts himself in his intoxicated rage.
now playing>>121573414lmaoacid doesn't come in a pill!
>>121573422Astoundingly fetid
>>121573447What, the Slavonic Dances themselves or the recording? Or, noting the capital A, are you just saying that in jest?
feet
>>121573585thank you pornbrained coomer
>>121573585Listen to Holst's band suites and imagine Kumiko playing the euphonium solo barefoot.
>>121573422This would be great to listen to while driving or out on a walk or hanging out with friends playing in the background, but to actually listen to directly it's kinda boring. I know, I know, >Dances so I should have expected it. Gonna listen to Karajan's Schumann 4 instead. I'll finish up the rest, aka op. 72, next time I leave the house.
>>121573642thank you pornbrained tranime sister
>>121572866>“Mozart’s music and Mozart’s orchestra are a perfect match. An equally perfect balance exists between Palestrina’s choir and Palestrina’s counterpoint, and I find a similar correspondence between Chopin’s piano and some of his etudes and preludes. I don’t care for the lady's Chopin, however. There is too much of the Parisian salon in that; but he has given us many things that are above the salon.”
Is Fidelio even worth watching?
>>121573768thank you wagnersister
>>121572907Mahler is alright but he lacked the hallmark of a truly great composer: having a natural skill for advanced counterpoint. The finale of his fifth symphony is commendable however you can tell that unlike some of his contemporaries like Reger and Sibelius, contrapuntal thinking did not come naturally to him, and he had to struggle at it.
How's the Bernstein Sibelius 5 & 7? Also looking into the Sakari 6 & 7.
>>121573937bernstein manages the impressive feat of sucking more cock than sibelius
>>121573945Yes, the Sibelius 2 was awful. But I wanna try at least one more symphony before writing off his entirely, and another anon rec'd the 7th.
>>121573937>>121573945>>1215739604, 6, and 7 are the best. I don't give a shit about the others.
>>121573991Dope, thanks. Any specific recording?
>>121574012try this one for starters:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW4jqGL3BAk
>>121574051Thanks anon. I also added Blomstedt's Complete Symphonies with the SF Symphony. I'll listen once this 7th completes.
>>121574051in my opinion Sibelius' 4th symphony is one of the greatest symphonies ever written. The opening four notes hits you like cold mist (as it should. Its mode is aeolian and the vector m2s3t2 of those first four tones is saturated by the characteristically hazy whole tone).
>>121574148nonsensical pseudotheoretical bullshit
>>121573382>>121573414hey i'm not doing it. but when you become so pathological, that's the kind of length one must go in rejiggering
>>121573912Name one Sibelius fugotto , lol
How funny, I came across two different BBC orchestras recordings that are very quiet.This Stokowski's Bach arrangement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Z7rWVaYTQcompared tohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BsjF1bywuIAnd this one of Sukhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azUPe3eP-A8compared tohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wajQfFtNkIIs this common?
>>121573201i'm actually trashing on that pic
>>121574148>Vector m2s3t2 What? Now you're just showing off!
>>121573912well thanks for your response, and not to out-autism you, but bach IS counterpoint and renders everything else virtually meaningless by comparison. no one else came close (no one even tried) so why have the conversation?
>>121574182thank you brainfried druggie>>121574225not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/a/ instead, tranime sister?
These Poulenc concertos are so good
>>121574245Proof this is a bot, it hasn't even properly identified the type of post it's responding to; anime never entered the picture.
>>121574167>primary colors are bullshit.ok, retard.>>121574186listen to the sixth symphony. He had a great command of modal/renaissance polyphony.
>>121574273wrong post, was intended for >>121574214
>>121574288moronic faux-synesthesic schizophrenia
>>121574306you should read Howard Hanson's textbook on intervals.intervals are basically the textures of music. fifths are empty, tritones are dramatic, minor seconds are piercing, and so on.
>>121574533absolute contrived bullshit
The 7th was whatever (maybe it was Bernstein) but this Sibelius 6 so far is bomb.
>>121574613bombed like a b-movie, maybe
>>121574547>noooo, how dare you! don't explain how things work. I want everything to remain a mystery!fuck you nigger.Example of The Perfect Fifth (p):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HbBURnt9f4&t=1906Example of The Tritone (t2):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cLh7bRY-RkExample of The Minor Second (d):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj3kkdwiGdA
>>121574671complete and utter rubbish
>>121574533>>121574671I should've spent more time learning music when I was younger. This all sounds intriguing but I don't understand a lick.
>autist anon doesn't know or care for music theory in addition to not liking Brahms's string quartetslmao
>>121574739because it’s all contrived pseudotheoretical bullshit invented by a wannabe scriabincel>>121574744how incredibly embarrassing
>>121574228my point still stands because a symphony in addition to suggesting scale should also be active from all points of view.
one-line negative anon is clinically depressed
>>121574713>>121574757>squares and circles are social constructs.
>>121574841presumptuous hokey>>121574865nonsense as always
>>121574757Oh is that what he's been talking about? I actually am familiar with that from when I was obsessed with Scriabin years ago and read a biography about him and his whole music theory -- in which case, still intriguing but definitely whacky lol (I guess I should've gotten the clue when you said 'feux-synesthesic' before)
>>121574893it's ok if you're musically illiterate. I won't judge.
>>121574932laughably retarded
will I be converted to a HIPster sister? I do love their cantatas.
>>121574979it's not. interval vectors have meanings in the same way that certain shapes and colors have meanings. e.g. triangles denote sharpness, ovals denote smoothness, red is passionate, etc. the following piece uses the vector mnd: (C, C#, and E for example)https://vocaroo.com/17v2ubdfkQnZto me this vector has a very eerie quality like that of the Phrygian mode.
>>121575343Anonychords
>>12157538401234578T (677673) sounds American because it's a projection of the triad pns.
>>121574267Yeah Poulenc is great! I love his concertos, this is my favorite recording of his two piano concerto, his organ concerto is amazing as well
>>121573087you aren't European. you wouldn't understand.
>>121572866what are your thoughts on Hanson's symphonies?no. 6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNWGCGRBgA8
looks like I scared everyone off. it's funny how you snobs fuck off the moment someone with any real expertise shows up.
Counterpoint fucking sucks cock
What is the most degenerate piece of music you have ever listened to? For me its Gurrelieder, whenever I listen to this particular piece I start envisioning ponies and muppet dolls trying to sexually violate me.
>>121576855https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlUttl1CEOw>blocks your path.
>>121577014something by Henry Cowell probably.
Debussy is one of the greats, the last two minutes of this piece are incrediblehttps://youtu.be/jAxAWRfhc-w?si=IPEX7kiwGELxc2BG
has anyone here checked Havergal Brian's other symphonies. no. 10. is a masterpiece.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-SodiKVMmAIt begins with a tragic dotted march motif in C-minor. this triad when subsequently repeated to outline a chromatic scale brings the music into C#-minor in which the second subject is presented. the effect of this music is like walking along cliff edges in a storm. The closing theme with its distant modal modulation from F# Mixolydian to C Dorian feels symbolic of one's loneliness in an endless cosmos. The symphony viewed as a whole is in fact a giant half-cadence from C-minor to G-minor, leading into the 11th symphony...
>>121577014Mahler 6 conducted by Barbirolli
bump
You get used to it, though. Your brain does the translating. I don't even see the modes and vectors anymore. All I see is clouds, fields, and mountains. Hey uh, you want a drink?
Holy shit!https://youtu.be/S-r73OeVXs0?si=BKKHpCt-pWUwn3F1
>>121578604https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KHvgLKAiIY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI875LK7QZw
https://vocaroo.com/1jTTMuUXg6S5what springs to mind when you here this?
https://vocaroo.com/1gVPcXksggaGwhat about this one?
>>121578937*hear*
>>121573768Perfect observation as always from Wagner.
>>121575343>>121575419>>121576473actual contrived gibberish, please keep wasting your time believing this>>121577638>>121578351>>121578937>>121578999>>121579057hilariously pathetic and lonely
>>121572866https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOXMym9VMBM
>>121579174thank you wagnersister
>>121579175music theory is descriptive and your dismissal of it makes you look like an idiot.
>>121579207thank you pathetic loner
>>121574225Can someone explain this?
>>121579244the delusional ramblings of an isolated mind>>121579246thank you pathetic loner
>>121574979Negative claims about you are NEVER retarded. You are a complete psycho. You have earned 0 credibility, so it wouldn't be surprising if you were a rapist who hates classical music.
>>121579292thank you pathetic loner
>>121579244gladly. There are six intervals in music:p (perfect fifths and perfect fourths)m (major thirds)n (minor thirds)s (major seconds)d (minor seconds)t2 (tritones, they have a double valence)Howard Hanson devised a method of writing down the interval content for any given group of tones. for an example we will look at the group C, D, E, and F.This group of tones contains one P, one M, one N, two Ss, and one d. We can therefore write down its interval content or vector as pmns2d.
>>121579303thank you pathetic loner
>>121579303in addition to this analysis, the group C, D, E, and F has four melodic modes:on C = Mixolydianon D = Aeolianon E = Phrygianon F = Ionian
>>121579344thank you pathetic loner
>>121577083Reger is the worst tho
>>121572907He's second rate. Behind Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Bruckner, etc.
>>121579353chromatic sludge is an acquired taste.
>>121579360laughably incorrect
>>121579384thank you pathetic loner
>>121578937Debussy>>121578999Schoenberg
>>121579367I love Schoenberg though. Reger is like classical vaporwave
>>121579392nonsensical reaching>>121579413not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
>>121579392the first example was Dorian in the vector p2s2. it's a sonority not typically found outside of impressionist and pastoral music.the second example is dominated by minor seconds and tritones. it's a sonority commonly found in early 12-tone/expressionist pieces.
>>121579500thank you pathetic loner
>>121579506you contribute nothing to this thread.
>>121579513neither do you pathetic loner
>>121579520fuck off and kill yourself.
>>121579530thank you pathetic loner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdUeKYf438g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QwyLjN41mU
>>121572866My favourite western composer is maynard james keenan. https://youtu.be/cjXSZyn3ssI?si=vnF-c-QZTsMmh4Wfhttps://youtu.be/cjXSZyn3ssI?si=vnF-c-QZTsMmh4Wf
>>121580043not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
>>121579500Yeah I knew that already, thanks professor
>>121580043Piss off!
>>121580447humorously miserable
on the topic of you guys arguing about Brahms' string ensemble works last night, this might be my new favorite recording of them, at least taken altogether overall>>121575516I'll check that one out. I listened to the piano concerto and piano concerto for 2 hands and both were great, gonna listen to the organ concerto later.
>>121580512it is a wonder with such divine masterpieces as the string quintets, the piano quintet, and above all, the clarinet quintet, that anyone even bothers to listen to his meager efforts at succeeding beethoven’s quartets.
>>121575516o didn't notice it came with the Shostakovich piano concerto no 1, I love that too.
>>121580542Yes, I agree the string quartets are the weakest of those bunch, and probably are 'only' good-to-great, certainly not masterpieces. Hell, the piano quartets are better! But I still enjoy listening to them from time to time.
>>121580447I've been playing around with the vector p5m6n6s4d5t4 lately. https://vocaroo.com/1lwK5fu6jK86I haven't noticed it much outside of Strauss' tone poems.
>>121580575hence the worst set of quartets from any major composer (save shostakovich who doesn’t even deserve to be a major composer). hardly a controversial statement. >>121580578thank you pathetic loner.
>121580595>(you)
>>121580512Why do people regard Brahms as a difficult composer?
>>121580595I wasn't one of the ones arguing with you on it :) I did, however, think you were referring to all of the string ensemble works at first, so was a bit baffled until I read the back-and-forth lol. You got a favorite complete recording of them? I'm listening to the clarinet quintet rn actually and, again, the one on this Amadeus release is perfect.
>>121580608thank you pathetic loner>>121580621wagnerianism is a chronic disease
>>121580578Nobody is going to adopt this obscure system, just use set theory.
>>121580631>You got a favorite complete recording of them?you already posted it.
>>121580621Brahms couldn't help himself from using asymmetric phrases and other complicated rhythmic techniques.
>>121580640let the pathetic loner wallow in his own self-imposed misery, he has nothing else going for him.
>>121580641Ayy, seems my taste is developing nicely.
>>121580640Hanson invented set theory. show some fucking respect.
>>121580647>>121580661thank you pathetic loner
>>121580649ywnbaw, tranny.
>>121580708thank you pathetic loner
>>121580512At the risk of sounding stupid and uncultured, can someone tell me what the hell this album cover is supposed to be? Steps up to the concert hall?
>>121580661Typically we use 0-6 and t and e these days
>>121580782some nonsense that some piss label marketing intern came up with, much like pic related
>>121580784the pathetic loner wouldn’t know what standard practice is; he doesn’t interact with other people, after all.
>>121580575>Hell, the piano quartets are betterWhat's that supposed to mean? Brahms piano quartets are top-notch chamber music.
>>121580794kekI guess I understand the whole 'art reaching the end of reality, dissolving space and time' vibe but that doesn't apply to that work or Tchaikovsky at all lol
>>121580784the older method just looks better. In an ideal world we would all write in shorthand, but it looks like shit.
>>121580826Just an intensifier to illustrate that the string quartets are truly at the bottom of the list (actually I need to listen to the sextets more); I adore the piano quartets.
>>121580815tie your neck to a fan, tranny.
>>121580835delusional nonsense>>121580847thank you pathetic loner
you merely adopted standard practice. I was born into it. molded by it.
>>121580900thank you delusional pathetic loner
/classical/ is fast nowwhat happened
>>121581509pathetic loner started shitting up the thread with his delusional garbage
>>1215807840-9* typo
>>121581509parsnip plumber
>>121579303The perfect fourth is also a tritone
>>121582225literal lunacy
>>121574273op pic i was trashing.
Let's start the day with... Karajan's Tchaikovsky 4
>karajan conducting russian composersyikes
>>121582922His Pathetique for EMI is extraordinary, and so are his recordings of Prokofiev 5 and Shostakovich 10 for DG. Basically, you're just full of shit.
>>121582922You guys will eventually drive me insane to the point of no longer being able to comfortably enjoy classical music, I swear. "Am I wasting my time listening to this recording instead of another? Is this actually bad?" through my head all damn day.
>>121580512Is this collection further proof string ensembles were better in the 50s and 60s?
>>121582986Do you know where you are??
>>121583075lol fairThe difference is, compared to say /lit/ and literature and philosophy, I never studied music and only seriously got into listening to classical music until somewhat recently, so I assume, comparatively in this general, I know pretty much nothing and anyone with a strong opinion must be right. Recording X is shit and Y is good? X gets deleted and Y added to the library. Unless I have a strong opinion myself but there are only a handful of recordings and musicians and conductors that I do.
>>121583115This place is contrarian central. This is where people who get btfo'd on serious music forums spout their asinine bullshit. They'll post over and over that Sibelius is the worst composer in the world and they think it makes them sound smart. Don't let anyone tell you what to enjoy in music for G-d's sake!
>>121583177>sibeliusthe worst composer in the world
>>121583177Good point, you're right. On the last part though, I will say that the reason I care and take other's opinions to heart isn't to be cool or fit in, but rather time is the most precious resource one has these days, so I'm just trying to best make use of my time by only listening to the best recordings, y'know? But yeah, maybe I should keep a second tab up to lurk on TC or something.
>>121583177>>121583231Oh, and of course, beyond time maximization, to experience great art in its best form through the best means, aka a good recording. Cultivating taste. And to do that I gotta take input from others.
>>121583190That 2nd symphony truly was bad. The 6th and his string quartet are good though and his violin concerto is da bomb.
>>121583270all garbage
>>121583270>Sibelius 6My fav too
>>121583294What do you think of the Amadeus SQ recording for Beethoven's cycle?>>121583353Yeah, it's the kind of symphony I like. More grounded, robust melodies and not so drawn-out 'soundscapes.' There's certainly a better way of wording that but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.
>>121583270His string quartet is devoid of anything original. The 6th is nice though.
>>121583413True. It was a nice listen is all, but you're right, wouldn't put it on a list of recommended or top string quartets.
now playingWanted to try someone contemporary, a change of pace from my usual Grumiaux and not one of the other usuals of Szeryng, Milstein, Menuhin, etc.
>>121583378mediocre. much better exists.>>121583455horrid album cover
>>121583517>mediocre. much better exists.Alright thanks, I'll stick with my Borodin, and sometimes Barylli for the late quartets. Oh, Vegh too.>>121583517>horrid album coverlol yeah. I added a bunch of her (Ibragimova) recordings after I heard her Brahms and none of them are good except for this one. A shame because her interpretations are quite good! I'm liking the 'softer,' more feminine Bach, especially since all I really know is the masculine variety, and Hahn... don't really care for hers anymore.
>>121583604>vague quartetfoul
>>121583810I'll take that to mean the Borodin and Barylli are good :)
>>121583810>>121583861and lol the last couple of times I've listened to their recordings, your 'vague' comment was the first thought that popped into mind and I found myself extra focused on clarity and precision and consistency in their playing
>>121572866Whe I listen to the classical musics, I chirp and balk like a strange cat, I pump the oboes into my ears and then I get this big infectious toothy grin which covers my whole body in a thick layer of teeth. I love Back, Brahms, all the classical guys. That is the life for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM0Nu_WkfRQ
my left year got fucked at some point recently and I can no longer hear any bass with it. Listening to music has begun driving me insane because it feels so bad now. How did Beethoven do it when he went deaf?
>>121583861>borodinbarely mediocre>baryllihisster pisster, but not terrible.
>>121583981-_-Oh, forgot: the latest one I added and plan to try is the Budapest. If you don't like that one either then I give up lol
>>121584006stop going for quartets starting with the letter B. budapest is good but better still exists.
>>121583972He became an alcoholic
>>121583942Meds on the basis you thought this was funny and pasta material.
>>121584006start going for quartets starting with the letter B (Busch)
>>121584101thank you hisster sister
>>121584019lmao didn't even notice that hahaI used to love the Lindsay, they were my introduction to the late quartets but, if my recollection is correct, they're a little too sterile and stern for my taste. Last try: how about the Alban Berg's? I think that covers all my go-to's that I've also heard recommended for Beethoven's cycle. I tried the Juilliard the other week for one of the earlier string quartets and didn't really care for it.>>121584101:p
>>121584119>alban bergsubpar>juilliarddecent in the late quartets, but similarly sterile overall
>>121584133Why are you leaving listening to this turkey? He hates almost everything. He regards Aurrau as a bad pianist.
>>121584119Busch Quartet op. 131 will change your life.ABQ are perfectly fine but the other anon will say they are "mid". Go for it though... their Heiliger Dankgesang IS IT!
>>121584158insanely retarded>>121584159completely moronic
>>121584133>but similarly sterile overallI appreciate the confirmation in that I can trust my perception and resulting opinions on pieces. Well, unless you're gonna tell me the answer I'll just try the Budapest this week and stick with either them or the Borodin.Oh, one more usual I forget: Quartetto Italiano? I've only heard their Schubert and Mozart, which are both excellent.>>121584159I will take you up on it. You read my mind, actually, I was gonna listen to the 15th once this Brandenburg Concerto no. 2 finished.
>>121584169>italianogood middle quartets, lacking everything else.
>>121584169Kolisch
>>121584158He's given me good recs before. If you have any suggestions and opinions of your own on the matter, I'd be happy to hear it.
>>121584119>they're a little too sterile and stern for my tasteThat's the opposite of the Lindsays. Their style is mannered and sentimental.
>>121584188not that Anon but I only ever heard the Lindsays in Mozart's quartets and quintets but God did I not like them
>>121584183tell us a single good rec he has given and no, Klemperer's Mass in B Minor isn't one of them.
>>121584188It's been almost a decade so if I was off, my bad. I just know it ain't for me.>>121584179Can't find it.>>121584178O I forgot one: Takacs? I love their Bartok and Haydn. If not, I'm gonna listen to the Alban Berg or Busch 15th like the other anon suggested.
>>121584237laughably stupid>>121584241>takacsfantastic. expect the same quality of beethoven interpretation that you would from their bartok, they were made in the same time period.
>>121584237There's been a handful but really, the fact that me and him agree on the sublimity and perfection of the Amadeus Brahms (>>121580512) is what makes me trust his string ensemble tastes, at least to where his and my intuitions and preferences probably align.Again, anyone else is welcome to help if they want too, I'll listen to anyone.>>121584253Ahh there we go. I had them on the mind but refrained because I really had only heard acclaim for their Bartok so didn't know how they were otherwise.
>>121584237Also, if I remember correctly, he actually suggested Richter and Jochum for Bach and the Mass in B minor.
aaand here we goooo, now playing
>>121584253>Takacs better than Borodin at Beethovennow I KNOW for a fact you're deliberately trolling this poor Anon.
>>121584398haha don't worry I'm not gonna delete the Borodin Beethoven collection
>>121584398simply mentally retarded
>>121584360cool, just make sure to check all the other ensembles you mentioned later so you know first-hand not to trust what he says next time
>>121584421humorously dumb
>>121584412it is good practice to keep subpar recordings to remind us how good the great ones actually are.
Anyway, thanks for the recommendation and indulging in my questioning, my dogged quest to find the recording on which to spend my time. And to all others who participated in the discussion.>>121584421For sure. Funnily enough, of all the ones I mentioned, the Takacs might be the only one I haven't listened to for Beethoven, hiaha.
Ah, I found it at least through sheer power of the will. As for the general, nice job NONE OF YOU!https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqQ_KGGOqI&t=80
>>121584483Hey, that's my line! I agree :p>>121584421Also, are you implying the Takacs will be bad? lol. Or did you just mean to not 'blindly' and 'uncritically' trust?
>>121584509he is implying that he has a learning disability, and he is correct.
>>121584413That was three words, sis
>>121584509no, the Takacs are fine. I just find them sterile when compared to most other ones, and think the idea of them being superior to any of them is utterly insane.
>>121584522and op 132 has 5 movements.
>>121584528If you don't mind me asking, what's your preferred recording?>>121584516lol
>>121584528the only sterility is in your brain (and your testicles). >>121584541a bad sounding one, clearly.
>>121584169I love the Quartetto Italiano. They're pretty and songful.
>>121584580yes, but pretty and songful is not enough to comprehend the late quartets, and that is where they fail.
>>121584580Ooo they're actually the only other one I mentioned whose Beethoven I haven't heard (again, I love their Schubert and Mozart). I'll give them a listen. >>121584550lol I mean you wouldn't want me to just copy your tastes 1:1 anyway I'd imagine. Or maybe you do!
>>121584609i do not care, i mostly intend on laughing at the retarded arrau fanboy.
>>121584624I like Arrau for Liszt :( He's the one that I first fell in love with for L.'s music
>>121584640disgustingly slow and lacking in any sort of beauty of tone.
>>121584663Well, looking at my library now, these days I really like Bolet for the complete works, and then for individual recordings I have Berman, Korstick, Szidon, Duchable, Kempff, and Richter. Oh I have a Katin recital too.But Arrau is still good. Certainly no longer my favorite or even one of my go-to's anymore is my point with the list (Liszt!) spam.
>>121584541for Beethoven my favorites are the Borodin and Bartok Quartets. Bartok in particularly for no. 14 for that maddening finale, probably the quickest on record (that is played this well anyway). I quite like Cleveland Quartet's Grosse Fugue as well.
>>121584749all total dogshit, surprise surprise
>>121584580added, anon.>>121584749Never heard any from the Bartok and Cleveland quartets. Thanks for the recommendation. The 14th is my favorite piece of music so I'll look for and add that Bartok Quartet recording if I can find it.
>>121584749Couldn't find anything from the Bartok Quartet. The Cleveland Q has some great reviews on Amazon, particularly this excerpt from one:>interpretively the quartet seems primarily interested in showing you beethoven rather than their own virtuosity. i own the complete cycles by Amadeus, Tokyo, Takács, Italian and Emerson, and i do not place any of those above Cleveland, if many are peer. each quartet is played in the manner it is due, the late quartets have weight and the early quartets have verve. the rasumovskys are majestic. the harp and serioso are splendid. it's all terrific.I'll add their complete SQ recording, thanks.
>>121584814i’d sooner take a toddler’s opinion on beethoven seriously than i would some asshole on amazon, and least of all some idiot who thinks that the plodding, dragged out, torturous mess that is the cleveland quartet’s grosse fuge is any good.
>>121584826lol I mean I'm not just looking at their five star rating and seeing their statement of approval and immediately taking it as gospel, I'm reading through their reasoning and comparisons then determining if they seem to know what they're talking about and have a sufficient frame of reference.And, again, this is how I go about cultivating taste and a refined palate. After all, you've listened or at least tried out a ton of recordings, and that's how you learned, ye?
>>121584910i mostly find it laughable that this pathetic ditty of an op 131 recordinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tvW7-QKcqwis somehow being put on a pedestal by a living breathing example of the dunning kruger effect. when beethoven marked this monumental movement simply as “allegro” i did not imagine he had it in mind for a bunch of out of tune morons to turn it into a glorified scherzo.
>>121584760indeed it is very surprising any human being would hold your opinion
>>121584826their Grosse fugue is about 16 minutes, that's hardly a slow interpretation
>>121584954it is not surprising at all that you are mentally retarded, it was already made clear when you died on the hill of claudio arrau being anything approaching an intelligent interpreter of music. no wonder every recording you exalt sounds like a child deliberately bastardizing the piece they’ve chosen to defile.
>>121584910You're trying to request good faith and civility from someone who has spend the best part of five years posting the same two word responses to anyone who disagrees with him.
>>121584976I never said a single thing about Arrau on this general.Somehow it didn't cross your mind that there are multiple people shitting on you at once I guess
>>121584971amazing how they manage to make so little happen in 16 very long minutes, and with a piece where the entire world ends and begins all over too. with recordings like this one, it is no wonder so many people think that the grosse fuge is completely incomprehensible—they’re listening to performers that don’t comprehend it themselves. >>121584987comically pathetic>>121584992futile cope
>>121584953O you found it. Yeah that playing and pacing... definitely not to my taste. I'm still gonna give the Cleveland Quartet a try though.>>121584987He certainly is steadfast and aggressive in his opinions but hey, he helps me out and as I've said before, I'm willing to learn from anyone, and I appreciate whomever it may be giving me their time and effort.
>>121584971>>121585007also, >hardly a slow interpretation. let's see>juilliard: 14:45>vegh: 15:42 >alban berg: 15:37>amadeus: 15:24>petersen: 15:20>talich: 15:41>takacs: 14:34>mosaiques: 15:54>casals: 15:48>suske: 15:37really, the only recordings that are as slow or slower are: >budapest: 16:33 in mono and 16:50 in stereo>tokyo: 15:59 in analog and 16:18 in digitaland god forbid, >italiano: 18:51simply put, it is very clear that the average length of a grosse fuge recording is in the ballpark of 15:30, making anything above 16:00 slow, and that includes the horribly intoned dogshit that is the cleveland quartet. maybe if they took less pointless deliberated ritardandos at completely nonsensical points in the score their interpretation might be somewhat average in length, if not still on the slow side. >>121585043i wouldn't bother, but it doesn't hurt to entertain fools every once in a while. one simply has to remind themselves not to overindulge, lest the abyss stares back and one becomes a fool too.
>>121584953regardless of what you think of the playing, and addressing specifically that it is absurd that Beethoven would have had this in mind when marking the piece allegro: Beethoven notoriously asked for much much faster tempos than people assume from his markings. Virtually every time he indicated a metronome mark it was faster than the wording would lead you to believe (naming something andante then asking for a speed more akin to an allegretto for instance). Most conductirs can't even get orchestras to play the 9th at the speed his markings request for God's sake.So yes, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that this is what he had in mind, because past experience leads us to believe late Beethoven should nearly always be played faster than the words imply.
>>121585116>average 15:30>making 16:00 slowno, that would make 18:00 slow. 16:00 is hardly above the average length.
now playing. Kovacevich is so good!>>121585116Watching others argue is one of the best ways to learn on the internet and in life, so I am more than happy to spectate, lol. The Takacs Beethoven 15 was excellent, by the way, thanks again.
>>121585043>he certainly is steadfast and aggressiveunderstatement of the century. "insecure man with anger issues lashing out online" would be closer to accurate.
>>121585217>Beethoven notoriously asked for much much faster tempos than people assume from his markings.and yet you still somehow find it acceptable for the cleveland quartet to take 16 minutes in the grosse fuge, also for the most part marked allegro or allegro molto. how convenient that your interpretative philosophy on beethoven is dependent on whose absolute garbage you're defending at that very moment! >So yes, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that this is what he had in mindthe piece is marked allegro, not "turn it into an out of tune scherzo", so i believe this to be unlikely. >>121585245a variance of 10 seconds is massive in a recording of any piece. how laughable it is that someone so insensitive to tempo dares to complain about "sterility". >>121585246kovacevich is good. katchen is better.
>>121585268"you're not as smart as you think you are" appears to be the most accurate description for you.
>>121572866cute feet
>>121585336thank you tranime porn addict sister
>>121585278>kovacevich is good. katchen is better.ooo I've got his and Suk's recording of the Brahms violin sonatas; very good! Added his 'Works for Solo Piano' recording, thanks. After I finish listening to half of the 16 Waltzes, op. 39 by Kovacevich I'll check out Katchen for the other half, and then his Variations on Handel, op. 24 as I was gonna listen to that already. Thanks. Eternally on the hunt for the best Brahms recordings!
>>121585398Seconding the Katchen for Brahms.
>>121585278>and yet you still somehow find it acceptable for the cleveland quartet to take 16 minutes in the grosse fugeyes? my entire post was pointing out that playing any given Beethoven movement faster than indicated falls within the realm of possibility and validity, and that those interpretations shouldn't be ruled out by their tempo alone, not that every movement should always be played fast every time and, again, I don't even find a 16:00 Grosse Fugue to be slow in the first place.>a variance of 10 seconds is massive in a recording of any piecehahaha Jesus. Sure dude, a 23:00 recording and a 23:10 recording must always have vastly different tempo choices.
Damn these waltzes are very good. Were these actually meant to be performed in a salon or some other public event space and to be danced along with?>>121585455Thanks :)
>>121585336Just imagine Kumiko has to play the euphonium solo in Holst's band suite No. 2 but a terrible melon soda accident has rendered her shoes and socks unwearable! She's going to have to perform without them! Everyone in the hall is going to be looking at her bare feet while she plays the solo! How humiliating!https://youtu.be/SkSTxyMWefs
>>121585542Should be illegal! As Islamist countries enforce the burka/niqab, so too should the world enforce covering of lewd cute feet. Also, rub one out already, anon, sheesh.
>>121585468>my entire post was pointing out that playing any given Beethoven movement faster than indicated falls within the realm of possibility and validity, and that those interpretations shouldn't be ruled out by their tempo alonea pathetic excuse that effectively translates to "it only counts as too fast (or too slow) if i say so, because beethoven is unpredictable!" expecting a spineless worm like you to have consistency of opinion was clearly too much to ask for. >Sure dude, a 23:00 recording and a 23:10 recording must always have vastly different tempo choices.correct. no wonder you're stupid enough to use the "but beethoven's tempo markings were faster than current performance practice!" excuse; you're completely deaf to fundamental differences in tempo. it also explains how a pianist as plodding and turgid as arrau is acceptable to you. at last, all is clear.
>>121585542>>121585589thank you tranime porn addict sisters
Asuka - MozartMisato - BeethovenRei - Bach
>>121585789thank you tranime sister
I'm on a real Brahms kick, and I feel like listening to a work that, much like the Beethoven 15th sq, is so spiritually moving and thunderously explosive I cannot listen to it too frequently for fear my soul may escape my worldly existence to become one with the divine made available to me through its beauty: the 4th symphony.The Kleiber recording is the definitive one, ye?
>>121584253takacs lowkey sucks on Beethoven
>>121585836I've tried a lot but haven't found any better.
>>121585836kleiber is good, markevitch and van beinum are also good if not slightly better. >>121585837thank you retarded zoomer
>>121585855>>121585870The question then becomes who for the first three, assuming the first two are worth listening to (I've only heard the 1st one time and it was okay -- could have just been the recording)? I have an Abbado collection for Brahms symphonies and orchestral choral music, and I think back in the day I used to love either Szell or Solti for the 3rd, I can't quite remember. Thoughts?
>>121585932>abbadoreally not great>szellunfortunately quite weak>soltikindly don’t.
>>121585932Van Beinum is consistent as a cycle albeit not all stereo and I prefer Kleiber's 4th. Walter does a good energetic 3rd. For the 2nd oddly enough I also like Haitink (with the Concertgebouw, his later recording is not good).
the "people" who conspicuously and at length defend one-line negative anon as if he's ackshually insightful are obviously also one-line negative anon
>>121586016i fail to see what you see in haitink’s brahms, it is merely ok. >>121586019thank you schizo sister
>>121582922I don't like the Karajan blend sound, but I've got to give credit where credit is due, he's actually good at the Russian repertoire.
>>121585980>>121586016lol. Thanks, went with Van Beinum. I hate having to add recordings from these smaller, weird record labels because you can't ever be sure of the mastering and if they paid for the rights of the best recordings or a throwaway one but the Decca release only has the 1st and 3rd on it. This one is also all Concertgebouw whereas the Decca one is LPO for the 3rd, so another aspect that makes me nervous. Ah fuck it, I'll add both so I can have the LPO 3rd.
>>121586019You're welcome to be as helpful and conversational with good bits of knowledge as he is.
>>121586184Obliged to mention Klemperer's Brahms cycle too, which I am not too fond of but is favoured by many. I do like his 2nd a lot, but overall prefer Walter between them.
>>121586184whatever you do, avoid any recording with that little boy portrait like the plague, the masterings on all his pirate releases have been butchered beyond recognition.
>>121586225ooo okay thanks. In which case I'll delete that pictured recording because I added it mainly for the 2nd, and add Haitink's complete Brahms and look for Walter's to fill in for that, and keep the Decca Van Beinum 1&3 (also added the Decca piano concerto no. 1 and Overtures by him).>>121586236lol alright, noted. Also, look at this cover, sheesh.
had to endure a Mozart piano concert played on a Steinway to enjoy music by Papa Haydn in the second part. It doesn't have to be a fortepiano, but why not use another piano for a change. looks like only Andras Schiff with his Bösendorfer and Angela Hewitt with her Fazioli are autistic enough to take their own pianos with them.
>>121586203I run this place, practically
>>121586398hilariously embarrassing, schizo sister
>>121586203this is what i mean. obviously the one-line depressed anon samefagging
>>121586461
>>121586261Oh yes, how could I forget. Monteux also has an excellent Brahms 2. I'm not sure Monteux made a bad recording.
Yuja Wang edition next please. Thanks.
>>121586461really just a poor showing, schizo sister>>121586490his 9th is on the weaker side, and some of the works he recorded more than once have an obviously superior version.
new>>121586511>>121586511>>121586511
>>121586490Anon, there's only so many hours in the day and days in the weeks to listen to these multitudes of recordings! Alright I'll add his too.
>>121585891>>121585891>>121585891new thread
>>121586470Nice photoshop
>>121586589You really are a schizo sister!
Okay now this is some serious BS. I guess I'm not getting through the next hundred plus numbers anytime soon.
>>121586631Post it in the new thread. And lol damn, you really are going through Mozart's oeuvre one-by-one until completion, huh?
>>121586470decent shop but haha. i already knew you probably thought i was the "i run this place" guy too, you're just projecting. now you're in shambles
>>121586656O_o...what? Anyway I'm here to talk about music.
