If I can smell the desperation all the way from here, to any woman coming in contact with you it's probably 10x worse.
Stop being spiritually indian and putting pussy on a pedestal.

>>34569739
Why can't I be Indian in how I behave?? Why can't I be a fucking shameless pig who asks girls out constantly and never gets discouraged? I swear those guys, with their 67 iq, they probably get way more girls than I ever have or will, while I'm over here fucking dying.

I've gotten better with desperation, I really did. I don't think women feel it during our interactions or on the date anymore.
It seems like where I falter is after the date - I ask when should we do the next one? And that's when I get the full day of silence, followed by "you're a great guy but no"
Do I just not ask? That can't be right. If you like me and you had such a great time then surely you'll say yes??

I'll provide more context because I feel like it's fair -
I LITERALLY WENT ON A DATE FOR 5 HOURS YESTERDAY AND SHE HAD SO MUCH FUN AND DURING THE DATE AND AT THE THE OF THE DATE KEPT MAKING SUGGESTIONS OF THINGS WE WILL DO AND THE DATE WAS SO GREAT, AND NOW SHE'S BEEN GHOSTING ME ALL DAY AND I CAN JUST FEEL THE REJECTION TEXT COMING IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS AND I'M SO FUCKING TIRED OF IT ;((( I'M SO FUCKING TIRED OF IT MAN. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU HAVING SO MUCH FUN AND THEN REJECTING ME??

Also she EXCHANGED NUMBERS AFTER THE DATE INDICATING SHE WANTS TO KEEP IN CONTACT AND NOW SHE'S FUCKING GONE.
I HATE THIS SO MUCH, I REALLY REALLY WANT SOMETHING TO WORK OUT FOR ONCE, I'M SO TIRED OF REJECTION, I'M SO TIRED OF BEING ALONE, GETTING GHOSTED, GETTING IGNORED,I FEEL SO FUCKING WORTHLESS AND IT'S BECAUSE I'M BEING TREATED LIKE I'M WORTHLESS AND FACING REJECTION AFTER REJECTION AND IT'S JUST LEARNED HELPLESSNESS AT THIS POINT, I'M TRYING MY BEST TO RESIST IT BUT WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO THINK AND FEEL ABOUT MYSELF WHEN LITERALLY ALL OF MY EXPERIENCES ARE NEGATIVE???!?!???

>>34569777
>Why can't I be Indian in how I behave??
You can if you want to. Look where that got you. I I I, me, me me. Literally just breathe and relax.
Absolutely wasted digits too, fucking hell.

>>34569804
Yes I I I me me me because I'm fucking alone and I've been trying. I've been fucking trying so hard. I LIVED to get a relationship and nothing is fucking happening. Nothing is fucking happening and I don't exist to pay taxes, I exist to have love, and I have no fucking love. Life is worthless without love

>>34569813
You're supposed to be a man. That means you MAKE the fun. If you can't, then why should women bother being with you? How would they know that you're worth being around if you can't even function as a human being without a woman around?
It's like trying to get people to invest in your business and saying
>I don't have any plans or ideas or anything for that matter, but if you give me money I can make something happen
If you can't see how retarded that is, then I can't help you.

>>34569734
There is no point. This is the society women wanted. Where only the top 10-20% of men get any play. Get redpilled and stand by.

>>34569836
>just give up and sit in the proverbial cuck chair
>don't even bother trying because there is no point

>>34569839
No, the point is that we don’t have to live in this society.

>>34569832
I reject your made up take on gender roles. Try again.

>>34569832
I have a life dude, I invested in hobbies, I'm a skilled singer, I act in theater shows, I sew my own clothes, I dance professionally, I play a fuckload of TTRPG's with friends, I regularly attend clubs at school, I dress well, I take care of my looks, I've lost and still losing weight in the last year which is why I'm getting attention on apps now at all. on paper I'm good, I'm fun to talk to, everyone's my friend, dates go well, we have awesome conversations, do awesome fun creative things together, and I treat them really well and make them feel heard and seen, despite all this I just CAN'T FIND ONE WHO STICKS AROUND PAST FIRST DATE!!! AND IDK WHAT THE FUCK TO DO, IT MAKES ME WANT TO RESCIND EVERYTHING I'M DOING AND JUST GO DIE IN A HOLE.
THAT'S THE FUCKING ISSUE, THAT I'M DOING ALL THESE THINGS AND HAVE A LIFE FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, BUT WHAT IS IT ALL FUCKING WORTH IF I COME BACK TO AN EMPTY HOME, NO HUGS, NO I LOVE YOU, NO ONE WHO THINKS ABOUT ME, NO ONE TO SLEEP WITH AT NIGHT. NO ONE TO THINK ABOUT. AND WHO THINKS ABOUT ME.
FRIENDS AREN'T THE SAME. I HAVE FRIENDS, BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME AS A GOOD WOMAN AND I'M SO TIRED OF BEING WITHOUT HER.

>>34569734
>I genuinely, sincerely, don't see the point in doing anything without having that woman in my life.
Then you don't deserve to have a woman in your life.

>>34569852
Having hobbies doesn't make you a fun or exciting person by default. Like I said, you're worshiping pussy and you need to stop doing that. If you're life's quality and value is entirely contingent on having a woman in it, then logically, the woman that *would* be in it is the only thing of value. So why would a woman ever get with a man that has no value?
>>34569851
I don't need to try anything. I'm not the one that has trouble getting with women. If you don't want my advice then feel free to do whatever, it's your life anon.

>>34569852
i do absolutely none of this and still got a girlfriend btw :)

>>34569929
>If you don't want my advice then feel free to do whatever, it's your life anon.
That's someone else it's not OP, I am OP and I'm open for advice

I understand your point, I agree with it fully, but like I wrote - I can't get away from this. I tried, I really did try. I try all the time every single method but it's all a lie and I'm hiding it. I'm hiding the real meaning of my life which comes from a significant other, I can't hide it, I can't roleplay that that's not the central thing that I'm missing to make me feel like my life is worth anything. All these hobbies do nothing to me romantically, they are fun, I grow as a person, I get friends, I become healthier in all aspects, and still - with all of this. I want to end myself because I need a woman.i can't be without a woman anymore IT'S BEEN 2 YEARS, IT'S BEEN 2 LONG LOOONG YEARS OF TRYING, I WANT TO DIE!!! I WANT TO FUCKING DIE!!!!!

>>34569734
post physique

>>34569777
>5hr date

did you kiss her or atleast hold her hand? if not, then you friendzoned yourself. 5hrs is insane for a date with nothing physical. Tyrone and Chad can get physical within minutes

>>34569851
that is why you fail. it's not made up if it's what women respond to. you need to read No More Mr Nice Guy

>>34569734
There are a couple of hints in your messages as to what your problems are:
>I'm in a foreign country where I don't speak the language
This is the most obvious problem, in my opinion. How are you communicating with your dates? Are you using google translate or something? Do they speak English? Are you speaking a very shitty version of the local language? If the women dating you have twenty options, they're probably not going to go with someone thats 5x harder to speak with than any other random guy.
>>34569852
>I've lost and still losing weight in the last year
How close are you to your goal weight? The way you phrase this makes it sound like you're still not ~22BMI.
>I just CAN'T FIND ONE WHO STICKS AROUND PAST FIRST DATE!!!
To me, this indicates something about your personality or mannerisms put women off you. Your post makes it sound like you're having a mental breakdown, so I'm going to assume you don't speak like this normally, but if you do that's probably it.
>AND NOW SHE'S BEEN GHOSTING ME ALL DAY AND I CAN JUST FEEL THE REJECTION TEXT COMING IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS AND I'M SO FUCKING TIRED OF IT
If I understand this right: She hasn't spoken to you in one day and you feel like she's ghosting you? It's not that unusual for people to be away from their phone for one day. If you're freaking out this hard after like, ten hours without a response, that would indicate to me you're kind of clingy.

>>34569957
>I tried, I really did try. I try all the time every single method but it's all a lie and I'm hiding it
Clearly you didn't. I'm tired of talking in circles. You need to let go of the mentality that literally your entire life is worthless if there's no woman involved, because it then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and you end up mindcucking yourself.
If it were truly the case that the only thing missing in your life was a woman, then you wouldn't be throwing such a hissy fit and just go get one. If your life were truly that great, rich, and fun, and you couldn't help but exude vitality and virility then don't you think women would be attracted to that naturally?
The only reason guys like you cling to the idea of pussy this much is because you have no other purpose in your life so you will lay the entire burden of expectations and purpose on the women you meet and dedicate their entire lives to them because you literally have nothing else. Women don't want to have to live up to that kind of pressure.
Like I said, stop putting pussy on a pedestal and start living a life that is fulfilling independent of women and they will come naturally.

>>34569734
Visit your local parish priest and request confession, if these people lived whole lives in poverty, chastity and obedience, even a scrap of it could transfer to you.
There's more to life than seeking a partner :)

>>34569813
>I LIVED to get a relationship and nothing is fucking happening
That's the reason why. Someone whose entire purpose and personality is nothing more than wanting a relationship is not somebody that anyone wants to be in a relationship with. Be your own man first, develop a genuine sense of self, and maybe you will be interesting enough to attract somebody. But as it is now, your attitude makes you an anchor around somebody's neck and not an asset. No one wants to introduce a clingy person who's going to depend on them for validation into their life.

>>34569990
>>34570006
Thank you both (or one guy?) for your response, I'll try my best to respond to what you asked and to points you made that I want to respond to.

First, you're right, I don't normally behave this way, I'm just very hurt cuz I've had 4 dates this month and another one tomorrow, and I kept myself very composed the entire time, and it's just rejection after rejection.
About the girl yesterday - we held each other on the dock watching the sun set over the water, it was freaking lovely. She kept talking about food we'll make for each other and how she really wants to come visit me in my city next, but last time I had this silence after a date - the girl just took a day to "process" and came back with a "you're an amazing guy, but I didn't feel a spark plus you don't speak Dutch which is a problem for me".
I date them in English, I'm in the process of learning Dutch but these things take time. I'm being discriminated against and honestly it's fair it makes sense, Dutch girls want Dutch guys or at least ones that speak the language, but it's just killing me that I live here now, and the pool for me is so small. Dating is already so hard, now imagine being an expat on top of all of this? I sometimes get dismissed early when the girl realizes I speak English mainly.

A year ago my BMI was 36.7. It's now 29.8. I know there's a way to go cuz a year ago I had ZERO matches & now I have some.
I know that women on dating apps are shallow, and in general they're way more shallow than us, but I can't make this process any faster. I'm losing 1.5kg a month, that's the limit you should be losing at. At this rate I'll be normal weight in about 10 months, but I don't want to let this stop me from looking for a girl.
The girls really enjoy the dates, genuinely I'm a fun guy to be with and I manage my desperation/expectations and I learn from date to date how I shouldn't get attached so quick on account of knowing that there will be more girls. But it still hurts
1/2

2/2

About finding purpose - I can't help it man. I agree with you, 1000%, but I cannot help this desire in me. My mom was bpd, she both loved me and hated me, I need a woman in my life. You can say I have mommy issues but not in the way that I want to fuck my mom, but in the way that when I was being brought up - the same hand that caressed me is the one that struck me, not physically most of the time, but psychological torture basically. From my own mother. And berating. I've since gotten away from her and rebuilt a decent relationship from afar, and did self growth. I'm now as independent as I can be, but emotionally - I can't hold on for long on my own especially living alone. I need, any woman, to just fill this position in my heart of caring for me. Without her - every activity I do, work, hobbies, friends - I have this thing in my head, bothering me, "something is missing" , something is missing. "You're distracting yourself". I crash out sometimes walking back home. I just don't want to be home. I feel so bad alone, at home. I just want to be with people 24/7, I seriously can't take this loneliness anymore. It used to be so much better two years ago, but now, after being alone for so long, I've gone fucking insane. I'm REALLY trying to keep myself together, to get away from learned helplessness and not let any setback make me give up, but boy these recent experiences are really testing me.&I'm becoming increasingly more frustrated and increasingly closer to having a complete avoidant burnout where I just go back to being a neet and potentially kill myself.
Feel free to disagree with me, but I don't think there's something wrong in a human who wants to dedicate himself to his partner. So many women do this, and their relationships are successful. I want to be that man, who focuses on his partner first, while still having a life don't be ridiculous. I had that with my ex, but that's over now, and I'm alone for 2 years. Things are really freaking grim for me.

>>34570061
(We were two different guys, this is the first responding)
>I date them in English, I'm in the process of learning Dutch but these things take time. I'm being discriminated against and honestly it's fair it makes sense, Dutch girls want Dutch guys or at least ones that speak the language, but it's just killing me that I live here now
Oh, you're in the Netherlands? Being in a foreign country always makes dating more difficult, but that's probably one of the easier ones, given how many people there pick up English when they're super young. If you stick to people with a high level of English fluency, you'll be fine.
>A year ago my BMI was 36.7. It's now 29.8.
This is actually very good news for your future dating prospects. I think most people would consider 29.8 obese, so if you've managed to set up 4 dates in 1 month with a BMI of 29.8 you must have a lot going for you personality and energy wise.

If I were you, I would take a 6-12 month break from dating until your BMI is ~22. Focus on maintaining your hobbies and social circle. You might not realize it now, because you just lost a ton of weight and probably look the best you have in a while, but people still notice that stuff until you get into the low 20s.

Good luck, anon. I believe in you.

>>34570074
Anyone can find an abiding sense of purpose, it just takes continuous effort. The only thing that can keep you away from it is telling yourself that you can't do it. Purpose relates back to your self and your conduct, two things which are always within your control. Purpose cannot come from relationships or circumstances, because those two things are never within a person's control.

I also had an abusive mother, and I'm happier than I've ever been after living 5 years in near complete solitude. That isn't to say that I think you should isolate yourself, but just to give you an idea of what's possible if you put your mind to it. No set of circumstances can keep you away from happiness, and once you've found happiness it becomes so much easier to maintain your motivation for further improvements. Happiness makes you a more attractive person, as well, because it makes it clear that you have goodness you want to share with others, rather than only wanting to receive goodness from others.

>>34569977
>Tyrone and Chad can get physical within minutes
Not everyone is Tyrone and Chad.

>>34570074
>I cannot help this desire in me
No one can, that's the whole point. I'm not asking you to stifle your desire for women. Just your expectations and outlook.
>I don't think there's something wrong in a human who wants to dedicate himself to his partner
Yes there is, that's what I've been trying to tell you. You need to find a reason to live and do whatever you like to do that's not for another person, because otherwise you're creating a mountain of expectations for women whether you want to admit it to yourself or not. You said it yourself, you feel like your life isn't worth living if you don't have a gf. So you're basically expecting them to be the answer to all of your life's problems and their presence is magically supposed to improve every facet of your life.
But that's not how it works. Women are still humans, they have their own flaws and weaknesses, even more so than men actually. They don't want to bear the burden of having to give your life meaning. They have their own life to worry about.
>So many women do this, and their relationships are successful.
Because they're women, not men. It's Yin and Yang, not Yin and Yin. Women are the receptive, passive, submissive ones that will attach themselves to a man with drive, resilience, and vision. You and the woman can't both be sitting back and expect things to magically improve by themselves with no one at the driver's seat. Waiting for prince charming to come and swoop you off your feet and make your life better is feminine, and you're not a woman.
That's why I'm saying, go find purpose first and build yourself up in a way that makes your life worth living independent of women and spread that energy outwards and project yourself onto the world as opposed to expecting women to fix your self proclaimed worthless existence.

>>34569777
holy cling, you had a great date and you're moaning that she isn't straight up in your DMs within 24 hours? this is why, you're scaring them off. you're trying too hard and as another anon said, it comes across as desperate. calm the fuck down.
you're comparing dating with how things were with a gf of five years. relationships aren't like that at the start, you seem to have forgotten that.

>>34570152
Thanks man. You'd think that with such high fluency in English itd be easy right? But actually no. Every Dutch person is like "forgive my English it's bad" *proceeds to speak in native level English better than some actual native English speakers*
But I'll tell you something that has repeatedly proven it to me so many times that its basically factual for me now - yes they are comfortable with English, they'll be great coworkers, friends. But for their most personal thing - a partner, the absolute majority of them are mega judgy. Like mega. And understandably so they want me to get along with their family or whatever, so this is actually hard here too.

And thank you dude, I have a good face, unique style definitely. In BMI terms I'm on that line between overweight and obese (at 85kg I'm overweight, at 86 I'm obese, I'm currently 86), but yes this is the Netherlands, being healthy BMI is baseline. Being fit is expected.
Thank you dude. I appreciate the support and the careful read on me, I'm really trying, it just really hit me hard tonight.
I don't know about taking a break, I did that until 2 months ago and I regretted it. I had nothing for 10 months thinking "I'm gonna do the irl thing and get a girl irl!" And then I was too pussy to do anything and constantly overthinking and the little bit I did do resulted in rejection, I was so invested in 2 girls and it ruined me when I got played with and rejected by both, I much prefer the turnover rate of dating apps because I don't have to waste time before I ask and it's also easier to not have to guess if they're single and stuff.
Again, thank you man. I'll try my best, thank you for your support

>>34570175
I appreciate the words man. You're right, and I do try, I try to have healthy habits and set goals that are within my control, but yeah the relationship desire is always there, I'm constantly fighting it, and it's easy for me to conflate my desire for it with my purpose. I try to help it but sometimes I can't like tonight. I have to remind myself that there are things within my control that I can work on, and that a happier person is better in general, but it's just so hard to stay happy when I want it so bad and I try and I face so much bullshit. It's especially hard when I know that if I was a girl I'd have a bf by now.
But thank you dude. I'll try to recover from this crash out, I just feel awful.

>>34569734
desperation gives me the ick

>>34570186
I appreciate it dude, very much. But that being said, I... Do in fact have every aspect of my life improve just knowing that I have a gf. I don't expect her to improve everything, the fact that she's there gives me peace. I was with my ex for 5 years and that gave me so much peace, she had a good time too. So I know myself, I know I can have a girl and calm down, I'm aware that I shouldn't put my happiness on them, but it would also be tone deaf for me to say that a large part of my happiness isn't dependent on them, it is. I know to thread the line and be careful to not make them my world, because my ex cheated on me ruthlessly and absolutely destroyed me, so I'm not as stupid as before, but I still need a girl. My main lesson from that is that I'll be more careful to always continue to cultivate friendships and be attractive even while having a gf and not become complacent and get fat alongside my girl like I did with my ex. It was so comfy she porked up and took me along with her. But the difference is I'm a dude in a foreign country and she's a thicc beautiful chick in her own country. And she cheated. So. Yeah. Thank you for your words but I really feel like I need this, I know that unironically it should be hidden or at least not be as intense, but I need it first. I just need to have a stable relationship with a woman again, then I can calm for real. Until then I don't find that much joy in my current pursuits, I love what I do but I need a partner, that's what I really need. So it feels meaningless without a partner

>>34570251
I think I did so well during the date.
I think it's the after that might put them off, like, asking for another date.
But it's so stupid, if she likes me, surely she wants to plan another date right? I just don't like things being vague. But yeah dude I don't know. It's just, yeah. I know. You're right it's only been 24 hours, but previous recent experience taught me that silence after date = bad, and I just have this feeling that in this period of silence, detachment occurs, back we go into being meaningless, and there won't be another meeting.
I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, I guess we'll see.


And yes you're right, the beginning of a relationship is different from a 5 year long one. But there's one thing I didn't tell you - I never did dating before. I found both my long term girlfriends online, and both were explosive (started sexual nearly immediately) and so I never dated. Not IRL, not online. It just came to me. Maybe it's a bit of a bipolar runoff from my mom, but I attach SUPER fast and super hard and it doesn't mean that I can't form long term connections, quite the opposite - I'm very loyal and I crave and give stability and loyalty and attention to my partner. But yeah. It's weird for me to learn this dating thing. A period of growth or non-attachment or slow attachment seems to happen here, and it's sometimes too much on my heart because yeah I do want a gf already, I've worked on it - a lot. Me from a year ago wouldn't even be able to take the fact that a girl isn't replying in general, let alone not replying after a seemingly successful date. So I've made strides but yeah I'm not perfect I really have trouble regulating my heart, I'm also being realistic to be fair. Not answering me is troubling. And soon I'll be receiving the "I had a nice time but I don't wish to continue" text. I can feel it. I hope I'm wrong.

>>34570307
It may help to keep in mind that if you were a woman, you'd have a new set of obstacles to deal with. Women are more impulsive, less introspective, and have a harder time judging worth than men do. You may easily find a relationship if you were a woman, but who's to say it would be a good one? What if you fell for an abuser, or a cheater, as many women do? What if your current desire for a relationship were replaced with a desire for "excitement", which caused you to fall deep into a reckless lifestyle filled with shallow flings and low class men? If you were a woman it stands to reason that many things about you would change, including your desires and your aptitude for reason. Personally, I wouldn't trade away a single ounce of what I've gained from introspection for the sake of external convenience or wealth, and I think under the calm light of reflection you'd feel the same way. Thoughts like these every day go a long way towards helping you stay grateful for what you have, and gratitude plays a large role in happiness and inner peace.

I know you can do it if you try, anon, and I hope you feel better tomorrow.

>>34570366
Thank you, I genuinely appreciate the wise words. I know you're right, but sometimes these thoughts do come into my mind. I'd make an awful women, I'd fuck everyone. And everything. But sometimes sitting here alone in my bed I think, fuck. At least they have something to do, they have SOME toy to play with, a way to improve in interpersonal relationships, someone to talk back, to toy with a little bit. Value that is assigned to them through the other person.
I'd be a retard if I didn't notice this. Women have value assigned to them thanks to men, it's real value. I wish I had that.
But again, I'm not a woman and yeah I'm wiser, but sometimes I'm just like, fuck. I just want SOMETHING to happen. When chuds say "nothing ever happens", it can be solved by trying to make something happen instead of crying about it, and I went for it and still it's not working, again and again. And that's why at it's core I understand the core message of nothing ever happens, it makes me happy when any girl matches with me and we start having a nice chat. It's like life was brought back to me, the ability to breathe. But being beholden to dating apps is awful so, I think I should continue to do both - have a life, and have the dating apps. Just sometimes like tonight, I feel like I'm not making any progress and it hurts like a bitch. But yeah enough complaining and repeating myself, you read all of this already, thanks a lot for the kind words and I'll try to get better, really will try. Tomorrow I have another date with a new girl, she's a self proclaimed witch who studies astrology. Zero idea how that will go.

>>34570340
You're not getting it. If your life was so great women wouldn't be rejecting you. If your life was so great you wouldn't want to kill yourself or start a thread on 4chan whining about it. So it's obviously not that great. Shit even, if you will. So why would women want to date a man whose life is this worthless? Seriously ask yourself that.
>I just need to have a stable relationship with a woman again, then I can calm for real.
>the fact that she's there gives me peace
Truth is, you don't want a relationship as much as you want security. You want a lucky charm you can look at and remind yourself that everything is ok. It's not. Time is ticking and you're on a mongolian basket weaving forum complaining about not getting laid. Why would any self-respecting woman put up with that? Why would a woman want to date a man who will kill himself if she breaks up with him? Why would a woman want to date a man whose entire mood entirely depends on her? Why would women want to take on that kind of pressure ON TOP of having to worry about their own emotional well being. That is feminine faggot behavior and very likely why you got cheated on, to be blunt.
A man being emotionally dependent on them is miserable to deal with for women and the complete and utter despair that oozes out of you they, along with every other anon ITT, can sense from a mile away. I understand why women reject you now, talking to you is exhausting, you're like an energy vampire.
WOMEN are supposed to be taken care of and be able to rely on the MAN for emotional support not the other way around. But since you are so insistent on continuing to chase and worship pussy because you NEEEEEEEEEEED ITTTTTTTT like a baby who needs it's pacifier, keep doing it. See how that goes for you. Can't say I didn't try to help you.

>>34570405
>Women have value assigned to them thanks to men, it's real value. I wish I had that.
That may be real social value, but it's important to remember that there's a class of value that goes far beyond the social and extends into the eternal. For example, the value of a man's honesty doesn't change just because no one believes him. Honesty is valuable everywhere and for all time. No one assigned honesty to him, which means no one can take it away. He was the one who chose honesty, just as he also has the power to choose integrity, compassion, generosity, justice, and patience. Not only does he have the power to choose them, but he also has the power to love them, and he becomes happy insofar as he both chooses and loves them, because in choosing and loving he ensures that he's never separated from what he loves and values most.

Good luck with the date tomorrow, hopefully she doesn't cast any spells on you.

>>34570340
>waaaa my life is nothing without women waaa
Ok, why should women want to be a part of it then?

>>34570434
I appreciate it, you can say it's feminine and energy vampire and all that, but it's who I am. And it's worked for me in my past relationships, I was healthy, happy. There's a pot for every lid. I still have good qualities of a man, I still take care, I still protect, I wouldn't kill myself over being broken up with. But I'm on an Azerbaijani butter churning forum laying everything out in the open because I've been all in on dating recently. I'm 30 and it's my first time dating IRL. I'm dealing with a lot and I literally don't have anyone to vent this to. Every rejection and every success I experience largely by myself.
I can't share things so openly with my irl friends as I do here. Of course I still tell them, and they tell me useful advice, but they don't know just how much it affects me. You guys all know because there's no reason for me to hide anything here, it's an anonymous forum, so I'm being the ugly cry form of me, laying it out bare - I WANT a girl, I NEED a girl, it is my number one goal in life. I'm functioning, but I'm not happy. People can't tell because I'm obfuscating, like an autistic person that's masking, it's awful. No one will help me but myself, but at least here you guys know how much I'm suffering truly, and I can get some help
So thanks for telling me, I do keep your perspective in mind too even if I disagree with certain parts

>>34570442
>Good luck with the date tomorrow, hopefully she doesn't cast any spells on you.
Thank you, I hope so. I'm making her potato salad with cream cheese and we're doing a forest picnic with some chill music infront of a pond with birds in a nature reserve, so she better be nice to me.

About everything else -
You're right and it's beautiful. I just sometimes feel like I'm too nice and I hate feeling this way because giving is not conditional to receiving, you give because you love, not because you expect something. But after so long I do get frustrated feeling like my kindness is falling on deaf ears, I do love to make my friends happy. But they're all married, with kids, or in a relationship already. And I just know, because I had a relationship before - that when you have a partner... Friends feel much more meaningful. But yeah, won't yap too much about it. Thank you mate and I'll try to do good tomorrow

>>34570453
Because I'm a cool guy who has a huge heart and super attentive and caring and nice to hang out with. Just because I feel empty without a woman doesn't mean my life on paper isn't good. It's good, but I feel like shit. Come on man, use your brains. Some celebrities are on top of the world and still end up killing themselves, you don't know what's happening with a person inside.i feel empty without a girl, like there's a wall and no one's talking back anymore. Especially difficult when I used to live with my ex for 4 years straight.

>>34570462
>And it's worked for me in my past relationships
Oh yeah, how'd those work out?
>>34570491
>Just because I feel empty without a woman doesn't mean my life on paper isn't good
>my life is hollow and meaningless, but that doesn't mean it's not good
Not even the anon you were talking to, but holy shit, how little self awareness do you have? Some people just can't and don't want to be helped, they just want to be coddled. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it I guess.

>>34569734
I've been dealing with constant rejection on Instagram, and I think the biggest problem is trying to find something meaningful through social media instead of outside of it. Online, people overanalyze everything, how to behave, how to improve your looks, what to choose in a relationship, and so on.
I think it's way better to spend more time outside and become more social, picking up hobbies, or doing activities that naturally put you in regular contact with women. Random hobbies probably won't help much, but something consistent might. Say you start going to Jiu Jitsu and there's a girl there who trains too. You both show up regularly, so the chances of her getting to know you indirectly are much higher than sending a random “hi” on Instagram and trying to force a conversation out of nowhere.
You're 30 already, and I'm 23, but I'm getting older too, and I already know the question you're asking: “Where am I supposed to meet women?” Honestly, one of my backup plans, if everything else fails, is to engage more with coworkers or even enroll in some random subject at university. I might not care much about the class itself, but being there would keep me in regular contact with a group of people, which naturally increases the chances of meeting women.
I think the key factors here are exposure and consistency. The odds of a girl choosing to date an old friend, coworker, classmate, or someone she's known for a while are much higher than the odds of her replying to a random DM and building a relationship from that. I think both you and I have been directing our energy toward the wrong place.

>>34570434
>>34570453
NTA but then what's the point? You've got to be walking on sunshine, THEN you go out and look for a completely superfluous girlfriend? Why bother?
The truth is that men need women and women need men. It's normal to feel a little lonely if you're single. If perfecting your life was required before dating, nobody would do it, and it looks like this mindset is getting more popular.

>>34570591
That's always how it worked. That's why back then you had to ask for permission from the girl's family to marry her, which was only given to you once it was determined that you were an accomplished man able to provide for her.
>You've got to be walking on sunshine, THEN you go out and look for a completely superfluous girlfriend? Why bother?
because you want to have a family and children
It doesn't really matter what you're life looks like, if you're so spiritually impoverished that your life without women is worth nothing, then why would you expect women to stick around when they can be with a guy whose life IS exciting and worth being a part of?
Why is that such a hard concept for people to understand? Why the fuck would women be a part of some desperate loser's life? What's in it for them?

>>34570617
Oh it's just a script you're following.
>so spiritually impoverished that your life without women is worth nothing
I never said that. In single men it is objectively lacking in something, a girlfriend.
>Why the fuck would women be a part of some desperate loser's life?
Desperate loser in this case meaning "wanting a girlfriend while not having one".
>What's in it for them?
Why would they want a lonely guy? Because they can't have a guy who's already taken, although God knows they try.
I get it, you want to wait at the finish line for a guy who doesn't actually want anything from you. Good luck.

>>34570562
Are you daft or something? I'm not happy with being alone even though from an outsiders perspective it looks like I'm doing well, that's all I said. You provided no advice what so ever.

>>34570591
Thank you dude. Exactly. I made this mistake by calling off dating apps, constricting myself to stupid arbitrary rules, mostly rules that isolated me from women. Like yeah, it's hard to be alone, and I feel shit, but I'd much rather be sad and trying than sad and not try and have nothing. I have a person in my study who's fat, super fucking rude, disgusting person, has IBS, constantly disagrees with everyone, yet has a gf. There's no requirement. Anyone can have a gf. Not trying means you're DEFINITELY not getting a gf, trying gives you a chance.

>>34570575
Thank you dude, I've done exactly what you described for a full year up until 2 months ago, called off dating apps and decided to direct my energy towards irl. I found a lot of self growth, a lot of friends, hobbies that I'm still a part of, but as far as romantic opportunities go - I invested a lot into women and our friendships just to be rejected. And I know IRL is a long term process, and if it works it can be amazing. But what I realized now is that I shouldn't apply this black and white thinking with "IRL VS ONLINE" but rather - do both. Each avenue I use is reducing my internal stress, if I don't feel like I'm working towards my goals I get stressed, and my biggest goal is getting a gf. So currently I'm:
1) on dating apps
2) still doing my hobbies irl, always open to hangouts and making and maintaining friendships, especially with girl friends
3) about to attend my first speed dating event. At comic con soon :)

So what I realized is that a smart man uses all the tools at his disposal. It's more stressful to juggle all of these, but I'd rather try and be stressed than to call off some tools cuz of some ideological reasons.I will direct this advice to you too - stay on the apps, while also trying irl

>>34570636
Preach dude, the more you call out that guy the more I realize he's just some sort of incel retard who subscribes to the whole "men are men and women are women and you shouldn't want them too much and instead become perfect" like yeah okay boomer .
Very well put my friend

>>34569734
You have your cart hitched ahead of your horse. Being in a relationship with someone can't be the only thing that defines you or your sense of self, because you're going to be so desperate to keep it going that you won't be able to evaluate it for its positives and negatives in a fair manner. And either that desperation will turn someone worth being with away, or worse you will end up with someone that will use that desperation against you for their own benefit.

You need to spend more time finding out what makes you who you are and what motivates you, as well as your own limitations and strengths. Without knowing who you are, you won't know how to adequately share yourself with another person honestly and sincerely.
There's a big difference between being just lonely, and being so desperate for belonging that you would take anyone at all.

>>34569848
What's your alternative

>>34570658
Thank you for the comment, I'm aware of this. Very much so. It's good that you mention it, but I've done my soul searching. I know who I am. I know what I need. I'm ready to be a wonderful boyfriend to a girl who I actually find interesting and finds me interesting back. I did the soul searching, I did the focus on myself thing, now I know that I need a girl in my life. And I'm ready to be there for her for real, and not be overburdening, just loving and close. And there are girls who love this.

>>34570661
Also if you're referring to my earlier comment that I'd be taking anyone, I wrote that in the heat of the moment. I actually do have standards, you have to be a nice conscious empathetic person who listens, I think that's my main desire from a girl. And surprisingly, this does root out some girls, but it's never about looks - when it comes to looks, I really don't give a fuck. Unless you truly look like you don't take care of yourself or have a major disability.
Other than this, what people here call mid - I call "the potential to be the best partner for life for me", given that her personality is great.

>>34570661
It sounds like the search is on then, it's not easy but there's no alternative. Keep getting fit etc. while looking, as established.
...you weren't drunk while you wrote the jeetpost, were you? You do need to figure out how to not sound like that or you WILL scare the hoes.

>>34570666
Thank you man, I'll do my best to keep going, and thank you and everyone for your support.
Uhhh.. yeah I wasn't drunk but I was extremely frustrated, like, very. And it's an anonymous forum so sometimes I say some shit. Of course the majority of indians aren't like that.. but it's just drivel that I write because sometimes I'm jealous of the 6 7 iq Somalians/Arabs/other piece of shit cultures that just shoot their shot with everyone until some reeeaaaally hot but dumb bitch takes the bait. But that's not what I'm looking for anyway. I want one girl, as a famous comedian once said I want to find my "forever hole"
Thank you again man

>>34570617
Just jumping in to ask what you're supposed to do if you're still not getting women after accomplishing something?

I spent my early 20's in monk mode grinding my way up the corporate ladder. I make good money, in the top 1% for my age group. I'm in good physical shape, with active hobbies. I travel a lot. None of this has made me more attractive to women. Really don't know what else I can do to make my life more "exciting" at this point short of quitting my job and becoming a DJ or something.

>>34570675
>making your life more exciting to be a better acquisition target
lol. This is what comes from believing that "achieve nirvana and you'll be ready for a 6/10 hoe" advice.
You didn't say anything about your appearance. You have the money, I'm not saying get surgery but there's less drastic ways to looksmaxx. It's about attraction after all, it's not entirely checkboxes.

>>34570675
OP here, I'll chime in for a second with what little wisdom I have:
When I tried to act like being put together will get me girls - it got me over invested in specific females who then rejected me after months of friendship and it felt awful. I had to deal with a lot of fear of uncertainty when asking them out as well.
Unironically, and I know this sounds stupid and obvious - but targeted attempts at getting girls, which for me is dating apps (and soon speed dating at comic con) helped me improve the skill of acquiring girls. If everything you say about yourself is true - try dating apps. And try not to let it get to you, I know easier said than done, I have an entire crashout thread to prove it, but that's after 4 dates this month alone. I'm sure you with your fit physique, high paying job, and probably living in a country where you speak the primary language - will have even more luck. The lessons you learn from the shitty texting, from the dates, they are invaluable. Work and hobbies won't teach you those if you haven't learned those skills (like me, I never learned those skills, I got my gfs online)

>>34570682
I've done some light looksmaxxing, mostly in the form of skincare, styling and lasik. I'm not balding and have good hair. Like I said, I'm physically in good shape, though on the small side, mostly doing a lot of cardio + boxing. I've loosely considered height surgeries or heavily bulking, because I'm 5'6" 130lbs, but I'd probably have to give up running and fighting to do either of those and those things are pretty much the only reason I'm still sane.

>>34570691
Tried dating apps, got ~5 matches after 2-3 months on there. 3 never replied, 1 was a bot, had 1 date with the last one where we both agreed to go separate ways.

>>34570636
>objectively lacking in something, a girlfriend.
>"wanting a girlfriend while not having one".
wanting a girlfriend and your life being meaningless and empty without one are two entirely different things. There are countless men out there who want a girlfriend and get one, because their lives aren't black holes that will endlessly feed on a woman's energy and presence in order to sustain themselves like OP is doing.
>>34570675
I've found that material things, accolades, accomplishments rarely have a say in how fulfilling your life is and whether or not women would want a part in it. If you don't have a higher good you're striving towards, or any sort of purpose or even just an aura that draws people in then women aren't going to want to be around you.
That's ultimately all there is to it, which is why all the "67 IQ Somalians" that OP keeps complaining about and is jealous of get women and he doesn't. Those "67 IQ Somalians" don't get bogged down thinking how worthless their life is or how they're going to "kill themselves" if they get rejected, they (albeit falsely) assume they're hot shit and just go talk to women they like and it works.
Look at OP, he keeps saying he's happy and content and his life is great apart from the fact that he doesn't have a gf and yet he desperately claws at every opportunity to get one and keeps getting shot down. Curious no?

>>34570735
>Curious no?
No, it's not, and you're in bad faith so I'm not wasting any more time on you.

>>34569734
Are you indian? You sound like you're from India.

>>34570756
What about what I said is supposed to be in bad faith?

>>34570735
I kind of get what you're saying, but I don't really think the hypothetical Somalian has more "purpose" than I do.

Between the ability to cold approach smoothly and having "an aura that draws people in", it really just sounds like the Somalian just isn't autistic and has well developed social skills rather than purpose or higher goals. Admittedly, that's an area I'm working on.

>>34570795
I mean a lower purpose is still a purpose. That's not really the point I'm trying to make though. Social skills are definitely a part of it, but ultimately what I'm trying to get at and why I brought up the Somalian in the first place is that there isn't some external source that you need to get at and extract value from that will give your life meaning and make it worth living and by extension make others want to join in on it. Or something external to tack onto yourself to fix all your existential problems like OP is doing with women. As cliche as it sounds, it really does come from within. You can have all the money in the world, hard assets, a nice job, or degrees or whatever else, but (you) have to be the one that instills meaning and purpose into them. And you already have what you need to make that happen. Life is what you make of it. Does that make sense?

>>34570851
>lower purpose is still a purpose
But that's my point. The accomplishments I set were purposes I assigned to my life at the time I was working towards them, as much as whatever the Somalian is doing.

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but it still sounds like you're blending a combination of social skills, confidence and a few other soft skills together to create a semi-spiritual justification as to why some guys get women and some don't.

>>34570900
I guess purpose isn't the most accurate word to use. But I stand by what I said. Accomplishments in and of themselves aren't particularly meaningful. It's not like you lived your whole life just to get some high paying corporate gig. Not to discredit it, just saying that that's not the end-all-be-all and neither are any other material gains. That's not your "purpose".
It's really difficult to put it into words without it sounding like esoteric bullshit, but it's not something that can be verbally wrapped up in a neat package because of the nature of the subject matter. If it were as simple as just having money or looks being enough to drown in pussy we wouldn't be talking about this right now, so clearly there are unknown variables that have to be accounted for. I think "X-Factor" or "je ne sais quoi" is the best way to put it that I can think of, because that's all that can be said about it, it's a state of mind you tap into that you have to find within yourself. You have to be "in it" for lack of a better term. Be entirely present and connected to the ever erupting well-spring of life.
I wish there was a better way to phrase it, but there isn't. You can call me whatever and take this advice however you like, I just know that it works.

>>34569734
This is a very estrogen soaked post. Like I know I still exist despite not having one. I don't need a woman to make me feel "seen" or "validated". I want one because I want something new to happen in my life and it seems like from every single person I've met that has been in a relationship when they got into one they matured and grew up more than when they didn't. When you stop thinking in "me" and start thinking in "we" perceptions and life choices change. But, much like you no one cares about if I live or die so I don't care either.

I don't really have an answer for you because I am in a similar place. Except I never had a gf. Just escorts. I'll get back to you if I figure any way of maturing without another person.

>>34569777
CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL
BUT EVEN WITH CRUISE CONTROL YOU STILL HAVE TO STEER

>>34570032
>Someone whose entire purpose and personality is nothing more than wanting a relationship is not somebody that anyone wants to be in a relationship with.
I want to be in a relationship with somebody like that, as long as I feel the same way about them.

>>34570735
OP here, I literally replied to you saying I'm not happy despite having a good life on paper my guy, you keep touting some sort of dichotomy that isn't there. I said I'm NOT happy and that's why I'm here looking for advice. You say nothing but "hurr Durr higher good" and provide exactly zero advice, you're just some sorta retard

>>34570851
You're also contradicting yourself, saying that you shouldn't have purpose and simultaneously praising Somalians for having the purpose to approach women, you're just a contrarian who learned how to write but by all means keep populating the thread with replies it's good for engagement

>>34571015
>so clearly there are unknown variables that have to be accounted for.
The variables aren't unknown to us, maybe to you with your convoluted spiritual "conclusions", to us they're very clear - the Somalians, the Moroccans, they have a goal. The goal is to get pussy, they work towards that goal and put aside shame and overthinking, they groom themselves and go out to clubs and hang out with the boys, and they get girls. It's not that they just sprout out of thin air with this skillset, they worked towards it. You write a lot and make zero valid points or give any advice. Bad faith actor

>>34571245
Thank you dude. Considering the escort path too soon, just some cuddles even will go some way towards giving me a shot of inhaler like an asthmatic person who can breathe for a moment.

It just sucks, it really does.
But, going on another date today, let's see how it goes.

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28 KB JPG

Update by OP, about my date today:
We had a nice picnic, ate tasty food, laid down under the trees and sometimes the sun, I hugged her, held her, then we cuddled. We played the animal word game while doing this. Then I gave her a message, touched her boobs, touched her butt, caressed her face, we were next to a public trail otherwise we would have done more. Then we kissed, she gave me a massage sitting on top of me for 15 mins, another kiss, then we had to go home. Pretty cool if I do say so myself.
And when we said bye, she said see you next time :) and we exchanged phone numbers (we were on the app till then) and then she sent me a text that she got home safe and that she had such a great day. I texted her back that it was great and that I wish her luck with her weekend since she's working the whole weekend and I'm going to a medieval/fantasy festival.
Write up almost makes me sound like a normie, but if you read my thread you'll see I'm in fact dealing with a lot of loneliness. So today was really nice. I got to nestle myself into her giant boobs and she caressed me, honestly - mommy moment. I loved it.

Only thing this tells me is that I cannot refute anymore, that given a tremendous amount of effort - dating apps work. And it's really nice to come to a date with no expectations, and come out with good experiences and good lessons about escalation, about how to have conversation on a first date, things like that. And we didn't even have a call before this date. I take it as a win.

I'm also trying to be more chill post-date, and be less pressuring with the "next time", hopefully this helps me.
Evidently, dating apps succeed although it takes a lot out of me.
I think my next course of action is:
1) keep, losing, weight
2) start learning Dutch
3) do speed dating
4) keep the apps open.

I can't say I'm not sad still, I'm still alone I'm aware of this, and dating app matches have dried up, but with a bit of luck, I'll meet new ones, and eventually the one