I am finding it very hard to date. I would like to engage with dating more often but I get this sinking feeling that it is just one giant humiliation ritual if you are a guy. I get this sinking feeling like I am just a monkey dancing around for a bored / semi-bored woman. I get that maybe it is a me problem but this seems pervasive. I have to plan the date, pay the date which I normally don't mind, I have to entertain her and I can't get annoyed with her because otherwise the date is over. I have to do what she says or asks or the date is over. She suddenly wants ice cream? Guess I have to do that. So what I am trying to figure out is how to make dating not feel like a woman is just humiliating me softly. In my head when I actually do get a date, all I am thinking she is thinking is "DANCE MONKEY! DANCE!" I feel as if I can't make any demands of her at all or I can't have any expectations rather. Like a woman EXPECTS a man to pay and EXPECTS a man to plan the date. I don't know what I can even expect of her. To me it seems like a man can't expect anything of a woman when it comes to date. Your reward feels like her showing up to humiliate you. I don't want it to feel like this but it does.
>>34776507yes its a humiliation ritual. your worst fears are true. watch animals do their stupid mating rituals and its virtually always the male doing it. the female raises the young and lays the egg.you still have to play regardless. you can still put up boundaries though. you don't have to say, "no ice cream bitch." you can just say i dont want any when it's brought up (and that on its own can suggest you're not paying), or discuss in advance what's paid for.you have to put the effort in but its for you to determine what you're willing to do and not. if you're willing to give next to nothing, then settle for a tv dinner and a handshake with mr willy instead.if you think you can treat a relationship with a woman though and act like a woman (waiting for a woman to do the initiation and mating ritual), you might as well become gay.
>>34776507Please don't go on a date. Just hire an escort. Honestly I would kill myself so quick if I was a straight woman and this is what I would have to put up with.Also expectation that men have to do everything comes from the fact that men are lazy and won't try in their relationships. So putting the effort in on the first date shows that you are different and will be a good partner. Although it's naive to judge someone's character from a first date, making a good impression counts.Since you are complaining about doing the first part I wouldn't waste anyone's time and look for a prostitute.
>>34776507No woman wants a monkey who dances for pussy. Grow some balls and act as an equal instead of a bitch boy. Also what, you don't like ice ceam? Everyone likes ice cream faggot.Life must be real hard as a spineless pussy.
>>34776525I actually always put in effort on the few dates I do get. I just get upset because I feel helpless on the date basically. I think it stems from me being able to perceive what sort of demand I can even make on women when dating. Like if I am paying and planning, what can I even ask of her that would be fine? I'd never ask something like "Hey, can you at least make sure you are pretty for the date?" or some shit like that because it sounds stupid. >>34776535I don't think men don't try in relationships. I think women recognize the really lazy guys early on. Basically, the "monkeys" that don't dance are the lazy ones. I get the first impression stuff though. I want to make a nice impression on women but I feel that many women don't respect the effort that men do put in. They just take it as guaranteed. For example, I undergo massive amounts of stress when I date plan because I am particular. I even check traffic timings and try not to choose a time that would have high traffic in the area. I try to make a reservation when applicable. I try to make sure it is not a particular hard place to reach. I take into account a ton of factors. I am also autistic which probably doesn't help and makes me stress out way more frequently about mundane things. So I do put my effort in but it is all effort they just assume is always there even though for me it roasts me alive because it is difficult. But I can't even convey to them how hard it is for me.
>>34776535>>34776545i wonder if anon monkey is ready to step into reality
>>34776556you're a scientist applying the scientific method.hypothesize, trial, fail. repeat. do you want a cookie?half the world thinks they're autistic now and starts off like a bumbling retard. your story isn't a new one. do it or don't and cope with the results of your actions.it sounds like you're more mad at yourself for failing to speak up or at least you should be.if you don't say something, learn from it and bring it up next time. you need to turn off the retard switch in your brain that thinks in circles and just do these things. there's no magic cure all potion to human emotion.trial fail and you'll eventually become more immune to poor results. at least you're trying but right now you are blaming the system for being rigged instead of yourself.
>>34776556I get you anon. I'm a sperg with OCD and that stuff stresses me out too. The right girl will be understanding about it though, but unfortunately it's just trial and error until you find her.
>>34776507>I get this sinking feeling like I am just a monkey dancing around for a bored / semi-bored womanPretty much yeah. The more attractive the woman, the worse it is because they've seen everything and been given everything already. You have to be some epic social media influencer who can fly her out and give her a spectacular experience, you can't just live a regular life. And you WILL have to put in more effort than her simply because you are male.
>>34776507You could just think of it like an input output system and stop overthinking it. When you need food, you give away money for it. You wanted to keep that money and not spend it; you also wanted food so you traded.Female attention costs a small amount of humiliation at this time. Sometimes more than a small amount. If that price is too high for you, don’t buy it. If enough guys aren’t buying it then maybe “market forces” will dictate a change in cost. Probably not but it’s funny to think about.
>>34776507Do less, don't pay, let the hard-to-please dates fail
>>34776507Terrible advice in this thread just ask for nudes or tell them to fuck off if it isn't working you probably aren't hot enough and will never be treated with dignity regardless of your jester you are just free ice cream
>>34776507yes this is a very good explanation but you have to realize why that's the case:because you're not attractive enough to the woman you're pursuing when you meet a girl who thinks you're attractiveeverything flows naturally, and you even putting a little effort for her is seen as something amazing to her. not some sort of humiliationthe feedback loop is differentyour problem stems from the fact that the girls you're pursuing do not find you attractiveeither A) accept that and roll the dice meeting new women until one finds you attractiveor B) become way more attractive both physically and lifestyle wise
>>34784073
You would actually save a shit ton of money just hiring an escort once a month as opposed to dating. I wasted tens of thousands of dollars on my one and only relationship literally for it to just crash and burn. Of course both are humiliation rituals so my advice to you would be to read up on celibacy and higher spiritual pursuits. It's actually not a coping mechanism because you'll save yourself a lot of heartache. Life is short and we aren't here to just abuse ourselves for easy sex and reproduction like many would have you believe
>In my head when I actually do get a date, all I am thinking she is thinking is "DANCE MONKEY! DANCE!"
>>34784167>celibacy and higher spiritual pursuits.Post material.
>>34776507Jesus anon get the fuck out of your head.Do you like hanging out with cool people? Do you like hanging out with someone whose company you enjoy who will agree to fuck you if she also enjoys your company? That's what a date is. Yes you have to put your neck out because like >>34776525 said mating is supposed to be competitive. The way you need to frame dating is to find out whether or not you actually like the person, not if they like you.
>>34776507I think that you should treat women more like other human beings and express more your feelings. If the women you are going out with are just expecting you to be their slave then they are all hoes. Just find the right one bro. Search a bit better and don't simp. Peace
>>34776507Why the fuck wouldn't you want the date to end if she's annoying, If some girl I dated was being annoying on a date I'd leave.You aren't being forced to date here...What do you actually want, sex?You can be honest here, we are all anonymous.
>>34785506ops last post was 3 days ago
>>34776507>In my head when I actually do get a date, all I am thinking she is thinking is "DANCE MONKEY! DANCE!"This is 100% on you and not the women OP.What should be going on in your head before the date is>well I'm about to go out and hopefully have some fun with this chick and I'll see if I like her. If I do then great, if not, oh well, nothing ventured nothing gained and anyway how else would I find out?>Also, we will obviously going someplace that I want to go because otherwise, why would I even be offering that?
>>34776507Stop simpign dude. Women only meet men when they have already classed them as fuckable and just want to vet them a little bit beforehand. You don't need to convince a woman of anything, just go to the park and have a few beers and have a normal conversation with her.If shes annoying, demanding, rude or dumb just ditch her because the sex isn't worth it anyways.You don't have to put on some retarded performance, just talk to her like you would to any guy friend , avoid boring and unemotional topics and physically escalate.
