>think about drawing/writing"eh, too many Internet creatives for me to get popular even if I did catch up to everyone. Why bother with art if nobody's gonna see it? Might as well imagine it and move on.">think about PC building (media server)"why bother archiving shit that nobody else cares about? I've already seen it anyways">biking"unless I'm going to the grocery store, I'm wasting time doing something unnecessary">3D printing/trying woodworking"ah yes, you spent 30 hours on something you could've bought from Amazon, very cool">singleplayer gaming"antisocial chud behavior wasting time on pre-programmed bit flipping, just watch a plot summary and play something with friends">multiplayer gaming"collectivized time-burning on flavor-of-the-month friendslop; consume more '''cerebral''' content like singleplayer games"I feel like I can't just enjoy the things I enjoy. Rather, I have to be turning them into something "productive" or "worth pursuing for external gain," even if they're obviously not the worst thing I could be doing. How exactly does one deal with these thoughts? They've made enjoying my interests a much guiltier experience.Doing something purely for the sake of "fun" feels awfully masturbatory and hedonistic, but the people I interact with all say there's nothing wrong with just "doing what you like," which sounds like a one-way ticket to being a lazy stoner. On the opposite end, I'd rather not become some fun police /pol/tard who NEEDS to spend every waking hour self-optimizing by sunning my balls or whatever. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle, but I get the feeling that I'd be much more willing to accept the latter than the former.
>>34846756it sounds like you're a hardcore planner. if you can't stop to relax and see the trees for the forest you need to find a way to calm the reductionist thinking you're putting yourself into.maybe try to realize your thinking isn't actually getting you anywhere (and is therefore irrational). if you obeyed it and ceased all hobbies, what would you be left with to do?there might be workarounds for some of your hobbies too.>drawing/writingif you join a class/club where you share with others you'll be forced to have something to turn in to share>bikingfind excuses to go biking even if it's for dessert, eating out or meeting someone>woodworkingagain, maybe a club would inspire you to have something to sharei find myself more motivated for most pursuits when others are involved. most artists don't just run to a cave to write the next shakespeare for themselves alone.
>>34846780I do like to plan, that's true. A lot of the stuff I'm talking about is stuff I'm aware is obviously silly, and I'm pretty glad that I'm somewhat lucid enough to realize that. Doing stuff with others definitely helps as well.Honestly, though, I'm not sure if it's an issue with overthinking. It feels more like I'm drawing motivation from the wrong source for my interests - that I wouldn't really do anything if I didn't have someone to show off to, rather than doing it for my own satisfaction.Drawing, for example. I think most of my positive sentiment for it comes from external sources (praise, attention, spreading my silly ideas, etc.) rather than anything internal (satisfaction in my abilities). Like, everyone I know who also enjoys drawing says they do it for "fun," but I can't help but think about all the work they put into their art. All those hours spent lining and coloring silly little cartoon characters doing cool poses, only for a few friends and Internet followers to go "wow nice" more out of polite respect rather than actual admiration. Whatever they get out of it, I hope it satisfies them, because I can't imagine myself enjoying all that work unless I have something more than a pretty picture to show for it (i.e., Internet art e-celeb attention so I can blast garbage opinions into the ether via doodles). Tree falling in the forest without anyone to hear it type stuff.That reminds me, from childhood I've always had this fantasy where everybody in the world disappears except for me, and I get to do what I want post-apoc style. I suppose a lot of this issue stems from that line of thinking - if there wasn't anybody around, what WOULD I actually want to do? The answer I settled on was voyeuristically digging through abandoned houses, but I'm guessing that's not a very sustainable pursuit.
>Rather, I have to be turning them into something "productive" or "worth pursuing for external gain,"All the things you listed can be productive. You're seeking immediate gratification
>>34846946>You're seeking immediate gratificationWho isn't? It's not that I want satisfaction as soon as I start something - in fact, I'd say I've started to shy away from that sort of thing (gaming mostly). I'm having trouble accepting the fact that they're "productive" even if I don't get any external benefit for it. Riding my bike out in the country is definitely good, relaxing exercise, but unless I have an end destination in mind like visiting a friend or getting food I always feel like a nasty little pleasure goblin doing something that's only a few steps removed from mindless gooning.
>>34846756Eh all of those are excuses to protect your fragile ego from coming into contact with reality. You can't handle anything without a guarantee so you take the easy way out instead of bearing being vulnerable for any amount of time. All of those are urban myths u made up to extend the enjoyment of potentially "eh I could do that but even if I did it they already have the market it doesn't matter if I'm the best in the world" here u validate that u could do it if you want to, you most likely think way too highly of yourself disguised as self hate.
>>34846883>childhood fantasythis is a delusion. its like the analogy of the monk that spent his life to seek uninterrupted silence. he retreated to a cave thinking he'd found his own slice of eden. but over time the drops of water from the cavern ceiling to the ground began to drive him insane.you know what else can mimic that environment? a padded room or solitary confinement. these are not places for a sound mind to go with. these are places for people with low or no coping mechanisms to disappear to.i'm also in one of the most solitary jobs and here i am bullshitting with people on /adv/ shuffling cards for another round of solitaire.the great musicians and artists had others to share their passion with. they also had the coping skills to not mind feeling like an imposter, fraud or fake.you need to understand the mind is the key to reasoning but it is also the poison to thinking yourself into oblivion. as with a lot of /adv/ice here, you need to reach a point of knowing when your unconscious 'thinking' is going in eternal circles. at that point you need to find the brain shut down switch and go into action.>overthinkingfor me when i'm thinking retarded. it helps me to journal, meditate, go on a walk. referencing another post here >>34846797you need to calm your mind to go back into consciousness. carl jung drew consciousness as being like an iceberg. 10% of it is conscious, 90% unconscious. right now you're trapped in a bad pattern you need to shut down because it isn't doing you favors.>praise, attention, spreading my silly ideasthere's nothing wrong with this. people are the highest motivator. you have to find people that give a shit though. talking to mom and dad about psychology will lead to them wondering what your psychobabble is about. this is why i recommended social circles. artists post their art at museums. musicians go busking or find venues to share their music.
>>34846756All of those things are productive, in a way though.>Drawing/WritingYou are honing a skill where even if you don't directly make money from selling art or books knowing how to represent things visually or with language will help you in any career.>PC BuildingHoning a skill, etc see above. Also if you're making a media server you could use that for work and actually make money from it.>BikingYour health is the most important resource you have. Exercise will keep your body strong and healthy. Exposure to nature and sunlight will make you happy and mentally healthy. All the money in the world is useless if you're dying.>3D printing/trying woodworkingSame argument as above with honing skills, etc. This also trains your brain to be better at spacial reasoning, planning, and having discipline to engage in a monotonous activity to get a result. There are all useful skills you could apply anywhere.>GamingRelieves stress and lets you connect with other people socially if multiplayer.The key is that any activity can be unproductive if you spend all your time doing it instead of things you need to do, like cooking, cleaning, or your job. Why are you using some hustle culture grifter's definition of "productive" anyway?
>>34846994>e-friendsunless you're just posting in the sea of sound cloud and youtube where you're competing against Earths attention, it's the same problem with online dating. one, there's a weird culture online where bad behavior is often tolerated. two, online friends are often extremely flaky because you're competing for earths time.if you can develop the confidence, use the internet (meetup, facebook groups etc) and find groups to meet online. once you have friends, you can meet friends of friends. it's how the real world networks.every steam, discord, whatever friend, 90+% (this is being generous) isn't willing to donate a calorie too you unless it's mutual (a shared game or interest). at some point you have to realize from saying, "i'm lonely, i'll take anyone even if they say, 'wow nice'", to saying, "i've given this some effort, and this individual's not worth my time". In child psychology there's a rule that if you don't let a kid win 30% of the time, they'll just quit the game. I use the same rule toward effort in a relationship. I don't overthink whether it's 50/50, but it's often obvious if someone is just maintaining a relationship in cruise control out of convenience/comfort.you just have to have some standards for yourself, grow a pair, and go out there. everyone feels like a fraud, or their wasting their time, or whatever to sell themselves short. the question is, are you going to take action to fix it despite having to deal with your emotions?
>>34846756The hobbies you listed are 90% useless. You should be looking at social hobbies, eg. sports or entrepreneurship, something that is skill-based and funnels you into being a leader in the future. That is how you get a social life.
>>34847022agree in part.one method i would suggest to op is creating a chart with 4 boxes:Need to do/Want to doNeed to do/Don't want to doDon't need to do/Want to doDon't need to do/Don't want to doit'll help him sort of his life and maybe get rid of a 'hobby' or two he doesn't enjoy in his life.everyone has their fix or alcoholism they are addicted to whether it's phone games or shopping. the only remedy is to cold cut it out of your life.it may help justify that what he does enjoy to do has some worth because he's cut out the crap like gaming that he no longer enjoys.
>>34846973If I'm going to drag my balls through glass instead of enjoying a nice shot of heroin, I'd be much more comfortable with a guaranteed lollipop at the end than some vague idea of a reward, but I get what you're saying. Even if I wasn't the best in the world (which I clearly am), though, I still want to do things and enjoy those things for doing them rather than whatever reward happens to come with it, regardless of my skill level. Better to be poor and unskilled but happy than rich and skilled but miserable, I guess.>>34846994Yeah, thankfully I stopped using that daydream around high school when I switched to sexy woman fantasies. I still think it's an interesting thought experiment for figuring out my own motivations.Good /adv/, a lot of these have helped before (even if journaling makes me gay and I would rather light some incense instead). Maybe I don't need to worry about getting a mass media following if my freaky incel beliefs are going to be ignored by the slopgoycattle nowadays anyways.>>34846998Well, I've been fed the "just do what makes you happy :^)" idea and the "get on that sigma male grindset" idea before. Both seem to produce unfortunate outcomes (lazy stoner vs. schizo ball-tanner), but I think I'd rather be the ball-tanner with some measure of savings than a zoned out pleasure machine that didn't save up.>>34847022Noted, I do have some pretty solitary hobbies. I'm pretty content with my social life so far, though.
>>34847124>Well, I've been fed the "just do what makes you happy :^)" idea and the "get on that sigma male grindset" idea before. Both seem to produce unfortunate outcomes (lazy stoner vs. schizo ball-tanner), but I think I'd rather be the ball-tanner with some measure of savings than a zoned out pleasure machine that didn't save up.You are seeing this as a binary when it really isn't. You can do something just for your own enjoyment as long as you don't go overboard and waste all your time doing it. I spend maybe 1-2 hours a day doing bullshit activities like video games or watching TV. I think that is a worthwhile use of my time since I'm still doing everything else I need to get done in a day.
