I saw an interesting take about the movie Obsession where the guy pointed out how people are quick to list the flaws of Bear and how he needed to adjust his behavior to have a better chance with Nikki, but all the while Sarah liked him as he was. His main idea being that self improvement or game is largely useless compared to simply finding the girl that likes you. And if you think about it, the biggest promoters of self improvement as a dating tactic still expect you to play the numbers game, but then what's more important? The self improvement or just spamming approaches until you find the girl that likes you? This also connects to how guys are confused when a seemingly ugly or degenerate man still gets women (Ian). He wasn't necessarily better than you, he just fit what she wanted in ways you could never replicate.
You can still be yourself and self-improve. You don't need to drastically change your behavior.It can be as simple as a haircut and better hygiene, or fashion that compliments your body type.
Self improvement doesn't work, you need to be fully invested in self unimprovement. Go into massive gambling debt and pick up a hard drug habit. Get arrested.
Self improovment just increases the probability that a girl will like you. That's the point. It's not magic.
>>34962852arguably sarah didn't even like Bear as Sarah treats Bear as an object to be won rather than a person to be respected- so yes Bear did need to self improve or he had no options.
>>34962852Self improve for yourself if you want to, who the fuck knows what a woman wants anyway?
you don't self improve to get a relationship, you self improve to become the more complete and happy version of yourself, which down the road will make you more appealing to people who like you and more prepared to be in a happy, functional relationship lateryou do it for youself
>>34962889they want chad and authority without accountability we know that
>>34962900this is cap and you know it, if they wont take you at your lowest they dont deserve you at your best.
Self improvement is USELESS unless it gives you some confidence. If you get ripped or whatever and become more confident then it's good, however for MOST guys it is USELESS when it comes to dating. Sure if you are poor and hate being poor, money will make you feel better and then since you feel better dating will be easier. But most guys just SUCK with girls. You need "game" in the sense that you need to understand what women want, how to talk to women, etc. Don't even call it game, you just need to understand women better and how to communicate to them. For me it's a fucking struggle. I'm good looking so people assume I can just get any girl I want to. Just because a girl likes how I look doesn't mean shit when I have to approach her and VIBE with her. For me VIBING with women has been the challenge. If I can get into a good fun mood it's a lot easier, but it's been a challenge. I've talked to maybe 50 girls on dating apps and been on a handful of dates only lol. Imagine if I only got 10 matches, I would probably have gone on zero dates. PS my friends are very good with women and they never once told me I need to improoove, that's some bullshit advice for people that still are mystified by women. The only advice they gave me is my behavior and how to not sound so desperate and how to be more fun.>>34962858Weak advice, sounds like AI almost. If you are so dumb that a haircut or hygiene is what was stopping you from meeting somebody then IDK what to say. That is not where most guys struggle. If nobody is interested in you then sure maybe you look like a bum but most guys have some women interested in them at least they just struggle to make anything happen.
>>34962858I'm not saying self improvement is bad, it just seems negligible compared to spamming approaches in dating. The ultimate self improver is still expected to spam hundreds of approaches, participate in mixed gender clubs, and run dating apps in the background. But is he really that far ahead of the bum who simply does the spamming/apps/clubs without the improvement? Even at my worst I had girls who just wanted me for whatever reason, now I'm objectively 10x better and get no attention from women.
>>34962900SELF improvement has nothing to do with relationships. Relationships are between two people. You will never self improve your way into a relationship, you actually need experience with relating to other human beings which is not self improvement it's relationship improvement. It's something social not something you do by yourself, and even figuring out how YOU work is something you do with other people. You will never be sitting alone in a room and understand yourself better, you understand yourself better through interactions with others.
Things are nuanced in real life, not completely one thing or the other like your autistic (no offense) brain is thinking.Self-improvement does help, but it should be done primarily for yourself. You have to feel better about yourself and live a better life to increase your chances of finding better women. Also, self-improvement isn't gonna be the same thing for everyone. I am currently out of shape. Getting in better shape would definitely improve my chances with women, but that doesn't mean I'm guaranteed to get hot Stacies because I'm still limited by other things that I cannot thing, one of them being my short height and others like the fact that I don't have social media and I'm naturally a quiet loner who doesn't socialize very much.Yeah, you should look for women that like you the way you are, as in, shares your personal values and wants to be with you without you having to bankroll or be a jester for her. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be a better man.As for the movie, I haven't watched it but in real life the lead actor is out of the league of the lead actress. He could easily get younger and more attractive girls.
>>34962912>You need "game" in the sense that you need to understand what women want, how to talk to women, etcI can't even agree with this. Because looking back when a girl actually liked me the interactions were just naturally smooth and easy. If you saw me talking to a girl that liked me, you'd think I was cool, but if it were a girl that didn't like me, you'd think I was lame.Just like in the movie Bear looks way different when interacting with Sarah simply because she clearly wants him. Same guy, same flaws, just a different girl.
>>34962921Dating apps should actually be the foreground because they teach you all the basics of everything you need to know to get a girl.1.) Your profile and showcasing yourself in a light that is attractive to women 2.) Matching and then communicating with women, vibing, getting their phone numbers and getting them to meet you in person3.) Actual in-person 1 on 1 time with womenIf you can't even do this then GOOD LUCK dating from social groups or cold approaching women. This is not to discourage anyone but you should actively focus on dating apps because it will force you to learn everything and even the fact you are getting matches will give you confidence with women.I approached so many women at clubs, sure I got their contact info sometimes or maybe hugged or kissed some or danced but it never lead anywhere else. I didn't know how to get past that, and if I got their contact info I didn't know how to move that towards a date. Dating apps just let you work on all that directly with girls that already said "yes" to you
>>34962930yeah because media simps over girls they call her beautiful and shit but shes actually really mid. the movie isn't even good its just catching on the incel narrative of our age so media is blasting it out as a solution which is "guys dont you dare think you deserve a woman"
OP, do you want to live a world in which you are humiliated everyday because people can't find peace with someone who can only speak in a way that triggers negativity in them? You think a lot of us have this hidden positivity that we can call out on a whim, but we can't. What we do on a whim is call out our hateful side because we felt that is our natural self. And as a result each day people only see the hatefulness, never the truthful side. It's a sad fact we have to accept that we are truly meant to be in this world as a scapegoat for people to make fun of and beat up for being inefficient and then ignore.
>>34962931I am talking about consciously trying to get women, you are talking about you going about your life and crossing paths with a girl that likes you. That happened to a lot of us when we are younger. But if those opportunities stop happening you have to do this consciously. Hey not everyone has to do this, but I am somebody that has to. It all depends on you and your life direction. Very few guys that are struggling to date right now are just going to magically end up with girlfriends, some of them will, most wont. I know in my case I won't so I have worked on my dating and it is paying off. Of course if a girl likes you then you will be more comfortable with her. That also has down sides because you can start to depend on her and that's how many guys get stuck in relationships because they are too afraid of being single again.
>>34962909>i won't date a person who's a heroin addict shitting himself constantly and sleeping in the streets>wtf why wont you take me at my lowest
>>34962930>Yeah, you should look for women that like you the way you are, as in, shares your personal values and wants to be with you without you having to bankroll or be a jester for her. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be a better man.The point isn't to not self improve, but rather to identify its true value in dating, which I'm realizing is very little. There is very little a man can do to close the gap between a women not liking you and liking you outside of the extreme of going from average to a rich celebrity or something. I think the self improver and the bum have roughly the same odds in the game of spamming approaches/online dating. Because when do we ever know of the average man to self improve himself out of the shitty odds of the number games? Its basically a myth, the odds are always shitty.
>>34962950bros got the gyatts yapp 3000 airing what the sigma is bro even waffling about someone get a translator because blud is speaking cursive Yapanese
>>34962953thats cope none of us here is a heroin addict shitting in the street how would we have internet connection - the lowest for many of us rizzlers is being isolated without social media and maybe working a dead end job like retail. BUT imagine the potential if some livvy dunne rizzed us like baby gronk and we became sigma. but noooo we gotta be the whole kit and kaboodle first while she is still doomscrolling and tik tok dancing bringing minimal to the table.
>>34962950>I am talking about consciously trying to get women, you are talking about you going about your life and crossing paths with a girl that likes you.But why did I get the girl then? Was it my "game", or did I simply put effort into finding girls that like me? We already have game, its called dealing with girls that like you, the conscious effort is simply finding them.
>>34962958 this >>34962944 for this
>>34962965It's all based on your energy, some girls will like your vibe. But if your vibe is shit, NO GIRLS will like you. You are saying your vibe is good enough that some girls will like you, awesome then go find your girls. A lot of guys vibe is not good enough to do this, they will just get rejected 100 times in a row. It can actually damage their self esteem even more. In that case you need to improve your vibe. So it's not about "game" it's about improving your energy and a part of this is going to be talking to different women and being able to have fun with them, going on more dates, actually getting validation from women instead of rejections. Suddenly more women start to get attracted to you, a guy that was barely able to land a date now is attracting more women and going on more dates. What changed? Just his energy. If you right now were having sex with 10 different women I guarantee you that suddenly you would be finding more girls that happen to "like" you. Compare that to guys with zero girls, which is increasingly common, who are actively repelling women
>>34962955>There is very little a man can do to close the gap between a women not liking you and liking youYeah, I agree with that. Self-improvement isn't gonna do miracles, which is why I said getting in shape would improve my chances but in the end, some women are simply never gonna give me a chance because of my height and that's fine.
>>34962964>livvy dunne rizzed us like baby gronk and we became sigma. but noooo we gotta be the whole kit and kaboodle first while she is still doomscrolling and tik tok dancing bringing minimal to the table.You are completely braindead.
>>34963334bro cant come up with an actual rebuttal but just uses ad hominems the boomer is a fossil no cap unalive af
>>349628522 things.1, you have your core personality. You don't know it yet because its buried under what media/ppl around you told you is good. You discover it with life experience and being assertive about what you like/consider good. You need to become yourself. Then you will find a girl who likes that. 2, this doesn't mean you can stay a slob gamer or forget about self improvement. You still self improve, work on yourself, etc. You just do it in the spheres of your core personality. If you like art, you develop in that direction. If you like sports, you do sports. Find your passion and push towards it. Don't sit on your ass. That's self improvement. Game is basically lying to yourself and to the girl in the desperation to get pussy. Ultimately wasting everybody's time.
>>34962992The reason why guys vibe is crap is because they have no vibe and no life. They're zombies wasting their lives. A zombie mode girl can be attractive to a thirsty dude by virtue of having tits and vagina, but a zombie mode dude has nothing attractive to a girl. No personality. No looks. They might have money but they're still not a real person. You can get same effect by just, learning to live/enjoy life instead of spending time being sedated by media and other forms of escapism.
>>34963360Everything you say is oozing with bitterness and inexperience. You're completely broken, there is no conversation to be had with the likes of you.
>>34963434my body count is 2 and I've had over 6 girlfriends try again you fossil boomer.
>>34963476That's a low bodycount so idk why your saying that like it means something lamo. The bitterness is palpable, you know it yourself. You're brainrotted and you think everything is a cope. You probably think brushing your teeth is a cope somehow. You people are as sad as you are ridiculous.
>>34963479high enough to rebuttle your lack of experience quip - just keep being an unalive fossil capping off in recursive yapanese chat loves it
>>34963479woulda been 3 but the one club girl i dated had an active STD so it wasn't my lack of success let me tell ya boomer
>>34963498>>34963499Your so mad you replied twice. Face it you suck and you refuse to do anything about it besides REEEEEing on here. Maybe don't do that idk lol.
>>34962909>if they wont take you at your lowest they dont deserve you at your best.You literally sound like a woman saying this mate. It's bad enough when they do it, a man talking like this is insufferable.
>>34962912>they never once told me I need to improoove>The only advice they gave me is my behavior and how to not sound so desperate and how to be more fun.So...they DID tell you to improoov then?Self-improvement is not some blanket thing, it's specific to that person. For some guys, yeah maybe they're just a haircut away. I'd say the guys (like you) who need to learn how to act and how to put out better vibes, they have a much a deeper and more important issue to contend with.
>>34963476>my body count is 2 and I've had over 6 girlfriendsThese numbers don't add up lil bro...are you saying you had 4+ girlfriends you didn't even fuck? lmao
>>34963533>actual body count is 2 out of 6, could've been 3 but the foid had the Nurgle rot and leaked her own negative stats before we spawned in. thank god, dodged a massive L.>check the logs bro: 1 of those was during the holy-roller larp, completely invalid.>the other 2 were during my nice-guy beta phase in CC, those don't go on the permanent record either.>the only 2 actual secures since I swallowed the redpill have been straight up pump-and-dump stat boosts. no cap.
>>34963573>those don't go on the permanent record either.That's where you're wrong. Also, you talk like a fucking retard.
>>34963575whatever brah you can't stop me
>>34963503bro how the hell can i be mad about this i ascended and did so as a 30 year old wizard with max LARP stats and popped my cherry fucking on Wall Street
>>34963587Bro, this shit is totally retarded.
>>34963476>my body count is 2 and I've had over 6 girlfriends Having 4 girlfriends in kindergarten doesn't count
>>34962900but why do anything for myself? unironically that’s not a strong motivator for me. if it was up to me i’d be sitting alone in my apartment on video games constantly fucked up. but society doesn’t let me do that, so i do the bare minimum instead
>>34962964>BUT imagine the potential if some livvy dunne rizzed us like baby gronk and we became sigma. but noooo we gotta be the whole kit and kaboodle first while she is still doomscrolling and tik tok dancing bringing minimal to the table.goddamn you have a way with words
>>34964366>ting alone in my apartment on video games constantlyI've done this and it's really unfulfilling in the long term.
>>34964396tb.h i don’t think i deserve to be fulfilled
>>34964419Not with that attitude.
Did a woman ever look at you like this, anons?
>>34964464Not once
>>34964464My cousin did, at my grandparents funeral.
>>34962852Self improvement ain't matter one bit I tell ya shrimp. Now load up the wagon with dose deep frozen chicken tenders, my blood sugar's gettin' real low.Would you date this?To be honest, if you are ugly, stupid and useless, you may find someone. But if you are a pain to be with - negative, angry, asshole, resentful, especially loser mentality (I can't do it! It's all rigged against me!) then it may become a problem. Women want to be with someone that makes them feel secure and confident, like an investment that guarantees a return. A lot of it is illusion - if I have kids with him, he will change (sunk cost fallacy, a common delusion among women. Women change, men not so much, a point of mutual misery between the sexes.)There was this show recently where guys were competing for a woman's affection and at the end of each episode she had to vote a guy out. At the end there were about two or three guys left - one looked like a lanky guy. Not ugly per se but relatively unremarkable. The other one was slim and buff, kind of handsome. She went with the lanky dude because she had "happy moments and good memories" with him, just to paraphrase. And there were clips of her laughing with him.So at the end it boils down to if you are a person someone would want to spend time with. Who makes her feel like in a disney princess, wholesome chungus, dark romance/romcom movie?So I think if you focus on yourself and on being someone a person would have many laughs with, it will get easier.Men will fuck anything that has a hole in it. She may be ugly, stupid, smell like shit, not know who the president is, but you will find a man that is into it, or something about her, and will overlook all the BS. He won't love her though, just use her.Women are probably less about body and more about "vibes" which are however highly correlated to overall health, vitality, outlook, etc.Simply put, don't be a loser. It is a mind & body type of thing.
>>34965117Getting some mixed messages
>>34962852Self-Improvement works until a certain point beyondDiet, Exercise, Fashion, Hygiene, Mindfulness, SleepIf you're wondering.>Diet & Exercise Ask >>>/fit/ regarding these.>Fashion Opt out for plain colored inexpensive clothing that fits your body properly, no logos. Keep it minimalistic.>Hygiene Do the basics of combing, oral & shaving plus whatever else>Mindfulness You don't need to meditate necessarily as it is just a trend. Mindfulness can be achieved through walks or wall-gazing, quitting social media helps too.>Sleep Aim for 7-9 hours, this isn't anything new. You should also determine your "animal" chronotype from Michael Breus.
It depends on how genuinely compassionate you are and how prone you are to resentment, OP. If you have a lot of pent up resentment you're going to have a bad time.
>>34966916>She went with the lanky dudeshe went with the lanky dude because those shows are scripted retard
>>34962852Self improvement is for your self. The point is make your life better for your self by yourself instead of staying on the same level waiting around for women to say yes.
As others have said, you do "self improvement" to improve yourself, if you're doing it for external validation it's not longer "self improvement", thus your question is retarded.
>>34962852>everything men do is for pussyThere are so many people on the on self improvement train the past two decades it's unreal, and I'm not talking about gym because many of them don't even hit the gym but instead do other activities, I'm talking about making money, being social, doing activities, hobbies, just keeping busy in general and making their life as interesting as possible to attract pussy. They are doing all that for pussy, constantly chasing a better looking pussy, younger, fresher, etc. until eventually they find one they are satisfied with so they can fertilize it but even then many of them continue to chase pussy on the side. Some of these boomers are 70+ and still chase pussy, that's right many divorced boomers have girlfriends, just look at that tremendous Eastwood faggot who found a new pussy at 70 or 80 and married for the 6th time. Not to mention famous chads like Julio Iglesias who had thousands of pussies throughout his life.All that self-improvement, customs, social mores, hobbies, cultural events and other activities people do is to attract pussy so they can breed the next generation of goyim cattle and feel desired, loved and appreciated by their pussy and progeny.
