>>35022863
You wear a condom with your wife?!?

Bro, hit that hot wet pussy raw and your ED will disappear.

Handjob and then sex sounds kinda boring, mostly centered on you. Make it more about her. Maybe bring up the idea of toys too. Use little vibrating one on her clit and play with her body for a long time. Until you are aching to get inside her and then a little longer. Best if you make her beg.

Then go in raw because a condom with your wife is wild.

If she enjoys it, then she'll repay that enjoyment ten fold.

>>35022946
Man I love the idea of raw sex myself but we are not ready to have kids yet.

>withdrawal

Too unreliable. If we had a baby within the year, as much as I love her, the baby would be too much for both and an abortion or adoption would destroy us.

>>35022999
She could take the pill but you guys do what's best for you.

The rest of what I said still stands. Make it more about her and watch how things change.

>>35023021
That's hard as hell man, no pun intended. Obviously the concept of making it about her and toyching makes sense but, bear with me, how?

For added context, we are both highly reserved people. Not even social rejects from vidya, more like old school. Helk i don't even suck her nipples right apparently, hurts her.

If/when you have time, coukd you summarise as though I was 5?

>>35022999
They need to invent a male birth control pill. I don't know why they haven't yet, shit would sell like gangbusters.

>>35022863
>Thing is, she is terrified of me going down on her, so we more or less just go straight to penetration after a handjob.
do you not foreplay wtf

>>35022863
I'd recommend lubing up and just fucking her, but I don't have confidence you could pull that off without traumatizing her

>>35022999
You can time it with your wife's cycle by taking her temperature and checking it with an app and it's accurate 99% of the time.

>>35022863
Crazy that people get married to somebody they don't have good sex with. The whole thing that comes with being married, you can't be with anyone else, so make sure it's good lol.

Are you fucking her face and making cum shoot out her nose?

>>35022863
Quit porn and masturbating. Don't use condoms. Lay under the blankets together naked in the dark and cuddle and feel each other up for hours and just have fun together.

>>35022999
>Man I love the idea of raw sex myself but we are not ready to have kids yet.
So why haven't you tried the combination pill, or a copper IUD, or any of the half dozen other methods of birth control that are more reliable than condoms?

>>35023609
We love each other man and both of us were each others first sexual partners. Very late.

>>35023742
That seems really nice actually, will suggest that.

>>35023774
Honestly, we are concerned of the side effects of the pill or a failure in it. So far, touch wood, not one condom has broke yet. If the pill didn't have weird side effects, we'd consider.

You didn't care about this aspect of your lives for 5years. Neither of you cared for 30+ years.
Why now?

>>35022863
In situations like this (and you are NOT unique) counsellors often suggest putting intercourse aside and focusing on sensuality. Have a night where you do not touch each other sexually but just enjoy non-sexual touching - back rubs, foot rubs, just skin-to-skin contact. After a few nights of that allow any touching but genital areas; a few nights later teen-style "heavy petting," and so on.

The point is to get away from being orgasm-focussed or even intercourse-focussed, and to relearn the comfortable pleasures of intimacy

>>35024718
>We love each other man and both of us were each others first sexual partners. Very late.

And? You're entirely driven by scarcity and mindless fear of never finding anyone else again. Thats the entire basis of your relationship.
And thus you cheat yourself out of experiencing an actually loving, sexually healthy relationship. Its just sad. And btw, relationships without a healthy sex life don't work in the long run.
You will find someone else to love, or you will eventually be forced to by the realities of divorce. Alternatively, you end up a married incel and cope until the grave. Its all so dumb.
But you wont listen and carry on, as all those people who stay in relationships out of fear do.
>>35024912
>relearn the comfortable pleasures of intimacy
While its not bad adivce, its aimed towards couples who used to have good sex with each other at some point. Because consellors do not expect the flabbergasting retardation and bottomless desperation of marrying someone you have not ever sexually vibed with.
Counselling cannot magick away fundamental incompatibilities, because the solutoin to being fundamentally incompatible on some level or in some area is to look for someone else.

is this thread only LLMs talking to each other?

>>35025069
Not at all in terms of fear of not finding anyone again, I feel that is projection. We found each other in circumstances you'd probably call me a liar but refrain from imposing your cynicism on me. I am aware of the negatives of poor sexual lives killing relationships. Sky is blue. Its why I am asking for advice, not some anon to pessimist bomb his own world view

>>35024912
We will try this actually.

>>35024818
Because we are married now. We sometimes had sex but she felt guilty. Now that we are married, she can have sex guilt free.

>>35025070
Yes

>>35025091
>Now that we are married, she can have sex guilt free.
A fucking piece of paper makes you not feel ashamed to have sex? That's fucking retarded.

>>35025113
Don't vent just because you got shit talked one too many threads. Provide advice than shitpost. Retard indeed yiu are.

>>35022863
You are not compatible sexually.

>>35025236
Well, bit late to realise that but again, we will try to work on it like we've done everything so far. She suggested sex therapist but seems a bit far.

>>35025091
>Its why I am asking for advice, not some anon to pessimist bomb his own world view

I'm not "Pessimistic", I'm mereley stating there is very likely not much to do. If you have had bad sex from day one and for a whopping five years, then you are likely sexually incompatible on that level.
>We found each other in circumstances you'd probably call me a liar
The "circumstances" are that you have zero experience with the respective other gender, and your sex sucks, with you being so incredibly needy you got married to her instead of looking for a proper woman. Thats the important part. Your story is ultimately a dime a dozen standard loser shit, no matter how much you want it to be different and special.
>Now that we are married, she can have sex guilt free.
Starting with that attitude to sexuality. Thats some severely fucked up shit my man. And I highly doubt "being married" suddenly fixes a worldview where sex is anchored as something deeply negative for whatever insane reason. Was she raised in a cult, if I might ask? Because that may require some working through.
>>35025225
That anon is completely correct though, most third world muslims would shake their head at that statement. You do have to realize that this is highly unusual, ot say the very least.
>>35025269
Thats the thing. You cannot work on fundamental incompatibilites. Any serious therapist is going to confirm that. The only thing you will likely achieve is that you "try to make it work" unless the other person is just associated with stress and work until you are sick of each others sight. Its a tale as old as time and the prelude to many a divorce.

>>35022863
If two people who can't cook and hate each other's food keep trying to cook at home without learning anything, it's just going to stay miserable.

Explore and learn together. Research. Experiment. And have fun.

If you two don't have the same kind of sense of humor, you're both likely doomed.

>>35025462
While I appreciate the better reply

>The "circumstances" are that you have zero experience with the respective other gender, and your sex sucks, with you being so incredibly needy you got married to her instead of looking for a proper woman.

I am not sure why you assume that anon, especially the needy. It sounds like projection as nothing I said indicated that. I appreciate you may have the raw, hard apprpach on relationships, I get it, buy I hope instead of acting hostile and makimg grand assumptions, advice was given than saying

>Ya you got no exp with women, you're needy and your relationship sucks.

It screams bitter. If you are in a successful relationship I am all ears, honest to God.

I don't know if you think I am muslim or something but that is not the case. Furthermore, it was a fairly slow burn thing, which is why we are where we are.

I appreciate in the US and the west in general, that the approach of sex and relationships is merciless and all about "If not good in day 1, fuck it, move on".

You also misunderstood its not like we had 5 years of sex and slumped, we rarely had sex before the marriage so we didn't develop it.

If it helps your context, we are both late bloomers so if its of any assistance, our sexual development in the relationship is stage 1. There is sexual incompatibility where both have experience in sex and are out of whack. Then 100% I'd understand and would indeed be "retarded" to be in the spot I am. In this case its like two people starting a class together from zero.

>>35025548
We do thankfully. We are compatible in humour and our day to day. It was a lot of luck and wprk for both of us but we are looking further to grow together. Still a lot of work.

>>35025462
Also, regarding the last point, surely you are aware of inexperienced people needing time to develop comfort in their sexual life? Still despite our earlier exchange, I appreciate your effort. I came here so should have expected tear downs but at least tear down with the info provided than making assertions

>>35025462
Also, I should have noted we are both Christian (Yuro here), but I also know anons have a special distaste for religiosity, especially as 55%+ users are US and Christianity is unfortunately highly exploitive of the people there and fanatical

>>35024718
>Honestly, we are concerned of the side effects of the pill or a failure in it. So far, touch wood, not one condom has broke yet. If the pill didn't have weird side effects, we'd consider.
The combination pill (unlike the progestogen-only version) can sometimes have beneficial side effects (increased sex drive, for example, or a more stable mood). Also sometimes not. But nothing it does to her will be permanent; if she doesn't like it, she can simply stop taking it. It's also vastly more reliable than condoms.

If you want something that doesn't change the hormonal balance at all, then a copper IUD is also worth trying. My partner has one, and is very happy with it. Again, it's more reliable than condoms.

>>35022999
There's nothing "unreliable" about pulling out you brainless retard. You either cum in her or you don't. If you don't it is 100% reliable; she's not going to magically get pregnant from having your dick inside her.

>>35025808
t. American education


>>35025804
I never heard of the combination pill but will hit up the pharmacy with her and see what we can do. I genuinely only thought there was "the pill"

>>35025793
Being Christian isn't the problem. Most of the Anons here wouldn't have guessed. You're dislusional about what you're realistically getting. Most Christians aren't this dislusional, hence why they wouldn't guess

>>35025808
>If you don't it is 100% reliable; she's not going to magically get pregnant from having your dick inside her.
There's a very specific word for guys who believe this: Father.
Sperm isn't 100% locked down within the balls until orgasm. It is present in precum. Pulling out reduces the likelihood of pregnancy. It factually does not *prevent* pregnancy. Countless examples of it.
There are variables. Sometimes couples creampie every day for months and can't get pregnant.

If you just stick it in for a second, the only risk is std. But sex and cum are not binary, all or nothing.

>>35025849
Noted

>>35025850
Pretty much. I need to constantly remind myself that this is a mostly US website where the education is in the toilet.

>>35025849
So all you've added is

>you're delusional
>your marriage is wrong
>you're doomed

Are you in a relationship yourself? I assume not.

>>35025808
My fucking god how the hell can you be this stupid?

>>35022863
>condom with wife

Good one OP

>>35025859
You're Implying
>OP is realistically experiencing what he wants
>his marriage is going great! Making this thread proves it
>everything's going to be dandy
>Ad hominem
Add that to the persecution fetish.

I'm sorry if facts and logic escape monkeys

>>35025735
>I appreciate in the US and the west in general, that the approach of sex and relationships is merciless and all about "If not good in day 1, fuck it, move on".
Well, you're wrong and delusional. If it sucks from the start, then eyes its not going to happen. Obviously. I don't know where you are from, but since you don't type like a pajeet I assume people in your country aren't generally this retarded.
>You also misunderstood its not like we had 5 years of sex and slumped, we rarely had sex before the marriage so we didn't develop it.
I understood that just fine. Because the former case would be fixable, the latter case is not.
>our sexual development in the relationship is stage 1
You're not at any sort of "stage 1" after five years. If you've known each other for six months or so I'd be all for being patient and trying stuff. After five years of failure, that ship has sailed.
>In this case its like two people starting a class together from zero.
No idea how it works in your country, but if a kid fails and has to repeat first class for five years straight, it gets kicked out and put into retard school for being obviously retarded.
>We are compatible in humour and our day to day.
If thats all a relationship took, do you think things would be so complicated? If thats all you want , literally get a cool roommate. Thats what I meant with needy. "We laugh at the same jokes" is not a basis for a romantic relationship.
>Still a lot of work.
A good, compatible relationship is not work. There may be certain points where you have to work together, but it is never constantly predominantly work. That simply means you are not compatible.

>>35025745
I've lost my own virginity in my 30s to a loving woman, and we did just fine from day one. Sorry to burst your cope. If it works, it works.
>>35025793
I'm European as well, I know Christians even though I'm not one myself, and I have never encountered such retardation among them.

>>35025975
Not everyone is so fortunate to have instant relationship accomodation and I suppose it was fruitless to believe that something cohesive would come from you>>35025962. If all you want is to shit on the relationship than doom and shitpost, ten our conversation can end. If you wish to actually try to help, sure.

I am not sure if you're autistic or, genuinely, intelectually retarded but it would be nice if you could read the responses properly.

>I am married and lost my virginity at 30
I'd imagine someone in this position would be more supportive.

Then again I have two PHDs, typing is easy.

>>35025975
>doesn't read OP

The guy got married and you assume the relationship had not developed to a certain point to get there?

All you say is retarded and delusional than contribute. What do you gain besides shitposting? Are you miserable and just want to share that?

>>35025837
>>35025850
>>35025920
>t. incels
I'm in my 40s and I have successfully pulled out literally thousands of times with around a dozen different women in my life and not once did any of them get pregnant. The reason pulling out has a less than 100% success rate is because guys lie. The urge to not pull out is extremely strong and you want to delay it as much as possible and guys with no self control wait too long and then lie because they don't want to admit they fucked up.

>b-but you must be infertile or something
I have 3 kids, all of which were conceived within a week of my wife and I deciding to start trying for one. We had two, fucked probably 3-4 times a week for 3 years with me pulling out every time, zero pregnancy, then decided to have a third and knocked her up in the first week of not pulling out.

But it's fine, keep cucking yourselves with those condoms.

>>35026015
Lying is very easy online.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/24174-pull-out-method

The worst kind of people are those who willingly spread their retardation to purposelly harm others.

>>35022863
I used to push on the base of the shaft to nut so I literally went 30+ years without nutting for any of my gf's until my current GF. I went on a porn hiatus and started lifting. I got super horny for her and ended up developing a technique where I grab her asscheeks and pull her hips up into mine to put pressure on that spot and achieve orgasm. Literally gonna marry that woman for allowing me to figure that out with her.

>>35026024
Yeah I'm just making up lies because I want to uhhh trick people into having children? Come on man you can do better than this

Go actually read that link you posted and you'll realize that it agrees with me. I never said pulling out was statistically 100% effective. That's because guys fuck it up not because women magically become pregnant when a penis touches their vagina. Let's just quote your link, which gives three reasons why pulling out might "fail":

>Getting the timing wrong
see
>>35026015
>guys with no self control wait too long

>Pre-ejaculate fluid containing sperm
Sperm do not randomly start swimming up your urethra. The only way precum contains sperm is if you have recently ejaculated and there are still residual sperm in your urethra that can be carried out by precum. If you've pissed a couple times since the last time you came then there will never ever be any sperm in your precum.

>Semen on or near your vulva
And that's it, even your hastily googled link has so few arguments that they have to resort to shit like this to even have three.
>oh well uh if you pull out and then cum all over your girl's pussy then some of the sperm might still make their way inside
So yeah don't do that and you're golden.

But look man I don't care what you do. If you want to (literally) give your girl cancer by making her take birth control pills or cuck yourself by wearing a condom in a long term relationship then that's on you.

>>35026002
>instant relationship accomodation
Yes, you start relationships with people you get along with, and not just in a roommate sense. Thats simply being normal.
>I am married and lost my virginity at 30
Where the fuck did you read anything about marriage lol. I'm not engaging in some hollow boome ritual.
You're of course free to handle things differently in your own life, but the times when marriage was a preqrequisite for sex have been over for so long not even our grandparents remember it.
And I am being supportive, I'm trying to keep you from staying in a relationship that will either fail or be sexless roommates.
>>35026012
>the relationship had not developed to a certain point to get there?

No clue what relationships is supposed to have "developed" if even sex does not work after five years.
Things being awkward and shit, that may have been acceptable years ago, but both people feeling straight bad after sex? That shouldn't happen at all, and certinly not with any regularity or even as a baseline.

>>35026030
Good stuff man, glad it is woeking out for both of you. Good luck but for the love of god watch the wedding budget.

>>35026024
>yfw you don't understand statistics

>>35026002
>Then again I have two PHDs

Explains a lot, You obviously don't have a lot of contact with the real world. Let me guess, some kind of theoretical math autism with zero connection to or application in the actual physical world?

>>35026039
You said you lost your virginity to a loving woman at 30 and made the assumption you were married as you said you did fine from day 1.. So you aren't in a relationship.

To get to the crux of things

>And I am being supportive, I'm trying to keep you from staying in a relationship that will either fail or be sexless roommates.

Congratulation, you're failing. But to your credit, if you could continue to effort post like this than stating delusional and retard without full context great. Furthermore all relationships require effort. If it was remotely as easy as you say, divorce rates would not be so high.

What you are saying
>you are crazy and delusional to continue this relationship as I see no healthy future. End it

Thanks. I am saying

>I know this part of the relationship is failing due to lack of sexual experience. Advice?

We are here. Anyway I think at this point we've reached the finish line of this thread and despite our disagreements and rough wording, if your intentions were actually sincere than just to act the trollip, thank you.

>End it
>No, give me advice.

>>35026054
No anon, I was trying to be sarcastic, which is great as its text. I was trying to highlight how easy it is to state things. I actually do have two masters though but eh, waste of paper to be frank.

>>35026062
>You said you lost your virginity to a loving woman at 30 and made the assumption you were married as you said you did fine from day 1.. So you aren't in a relationship.

Yes I am, with a different woman of course. Are you legitimately too autistic to realize that the overwhelming majority of people doesn't marry the very first person they are together with , regardless of when that happens?
>I know this part of the relationship is failing due to lack of sexual experience. Advice?
And IÄm telling you from first hand experience that sexual inexperience makes things somewhat awkward for a few months AT MOST.
Both people feeling terrible after sex is not usual, and not caused by sexual inexperience, and absolutely not after five years have passed.
Deal with it, or you will blame "sexual inexperience" when this shit still keeps going in 20 years. If you have two PHDs, you should be realizing that all advice that people have given here presumes basic compatibility and the fundamental possibility of the two people involved having actually good sex.
People feeling straight up BAD after sex is a red red flag and not something overcome with practice or changing the moor or whatever.

>Anyway I think at this point we've reached the finish line of this thread
Yes. At least think of my posts if things keep not working out no matter what you try. If they against expectations somehow do, more power to you. But don't ride this dead horse for the reast of your life.

>>35026070
No, I am aware the first relationship you don't get married, from your post I guessed you meant that may have happened more recent but that's eh.

But, with sincere respect thanks. But, being blunt, at my age im fucked (heh) if this relationship doesn't work, too old. Take care brother.

>>35026015
>I won the lottery so everyone else can win it too
Go away.

>>35025837
>I never heard of the combination pill
That's the original version of the pill, that contains both oestrogen and progestogen, and that you take for 21 days followed by 7 days off (or placebo). There's also what used to be called the "mini pill" which is progestogen-only. It's the "mini-pill" that people generally accuse of crushing libido, and other side effects. The original version is just about the safest method of contraception there is; far more reliable than condoms.

>>35025808
I used to have a friend who got pregnant three times, despite her boyfriend pulling out correctly every time they had sex. It simply isn't reliable.

>>35026015
>I have 3 kids, all of which were conceived within a week of my wife and I deciding to start trying for one.
Your wife has three kids. You're not the father

>>35026162
I accept your concession.

>>35026182
I'm not sure if this thread is the right place to share your cuck fantasies.

>>35026015
You're an idiot. Many such cases.
You're like every asshole who drives drunk every week and never gets into an accident.
Congratulations on breeding more idiot assholes.

If you can't have mind blowing sex with a condom, you're doing it wrong.

>>35023026
Nta
>Helk i don't even suck her nipples right apparently, hurts her.
Most women are sensitive in a not-pleasurable way there. Might also be a hormonal thing- they tend to get tender to the point just touching is painful when period is coming. Don't actually suck, just use tongue.

Also wtf tie her down and explore her body. Buy a toy and make her orgasm. Give her a fucking long massage. Go look up lines that women like hearing, surely there's a reddit thread of favorite smut novel lines or things they've had said to them personally.

>>35022863
You should make awkward dead bedroom unenthusiastic porn for us to watch and marvel at