for context i have a known family history of severe depression, alcoholism and i and some of my other family members have bpd. im working with a dbt therapist to try and work out my issues with bpd and so far ive been able to suppress my limerance so i dont become infatuated with someone i barely know and then switch back around to neglecting them but i still have a ways to go. ive also had multiple suicide attempts. i wont be having anymore because i cant legally buy a gun and every other suicide method is too risky for me to want to try so im doing my best to live an enjoyable life to the fullest. because of my mental illnesses, im starting to swear off ever starting a family. i never asked to be born and i dont want to pass that burden onto my kid. that and we should probably remove people with bpd from the gene pool.the only thing is whenever i think about what it might be like to have a family or i see pictures of my parents with me when i was really little sometimes i start to cry, realizing im missing out on one of the most wonderful experiences in all of humanity. i dont want to adopt because i want to continue my family tree but at the same time i dont want to continue my family tree because i have way too many demons i dont want to pass down.maybe this is a bad question to ask on the cynical incel basket weaving forum but am i being too cynical or am i pragmatic? im going to find mourning the loss of my unborn child extremely hard but at the same time i dont want to blow up their life and bring them into the world when i know what might happen to their brain.
no one should have kids
Ask your doctor
>>35078391You have mental blockages telling you it's a bad idea. But the reality is you're free to do whatever you want.Nature gave you the right to creampie women. It's your right to do so. Don't let society and bogus societal moral values impede on your primal urges.Furthermore, if your child is retarded, you may get some extra neetbux bonuses. That's worth looking into from a financial perspective. Lots of black women in the West have 5+ children to take advantage of this. Are their children the next Einstein? No, they're not. But they can be as fun as pets and if you're lucky your child can have some talent or savant syndrome. This may further increase your "return on investment".
>>35078391> that and we should probably remove people with bpd from the gene pool.i dont know about bpd specifically but a lot of mental illnesses like schizophrenia can be inherited recessively. this means if you forced every schizophrenic to stop breeding you would still end up with new schizophrenia via outwardly healthy people. the fact those illnesses are so persistent and commonspread mean they probably have some genetic benefit to the group, if not in the sick ones at least in the people recessively carrying it.
I see it the same way, frendo. My bipolar is nothing but a curse to me. An inhibitor and roadblock to the world of sex and parenthood. A tragedy that continues to punish and deprive me out of life. I'm left alone to suffer as some weird person getting older with nothing but my hand as a partner. Affraid to end it all so as not to upset my family and friends. Mania and depression were a bad cycle until I started taking a cocktail of meds to calm them down. The meds can further mess up fetal development, so I'm basically toxified. I'm a sad excuse passing through my life as if nothing will ever happen all because of a condition that can't be cured. All I can do is manage it and keep my sick head down.
If we're going down this route, we either go all the way or not at all.
>>35078391>realizing im missing out on one of the most wonderful experiences in all of humanity.You aren't. Someone with your mental health problems would find becoming a parent unbearably stressful, and not in the least bit wonderful. The wonderful experience you're imagining is something that can't happen to you, regardless of whether you have a kid or not.
>>35078647I don't agree with the idea that schizophrenia or bipolar disorder is selected for. In reality onset of these disorders can be as late as the mid 20s and therefore it can allow people with the disorder to have children before they even know they're sick.
>>35078391My ex had NPD, unmasking her legit gave me PTSD. No, crazy people should not have children or long term partners for that matter.
My mother was extremely mentally ill, but is a wonderful parent. Yeah, they do act insane and do batshit insane things, but those little things you don't notice they attend to well. Truthfully speaking I understand you're the type of guy who speaks mostly of organization and hates things being out of order, but the parent when they go out of their way to do your laundry, cook you good meals, and drive you places is a hell of a lot for a parent who does it daily. Had it not been for my mother I would not have as much compassion as I do towards women when they have their moments. I probably would have been an atypical asshole who sees women as sex objects had it not been for someone like my mother and grandmother who straightened my ways.
>>35078391I think this is pretty reasonable, but I would question your point about adoption. It clearly fits as a solution for both continuing your family tree and not passing the genetic shit down. You should consider what value family holds for you. If you adopt, you'll be caring for someone who literally needs it, when you are ready for it, you won't pass down your shitty genetics, and you'll still have a family. Come 2 generations, it won't matter whether or not you were connected via genes but it'll sure the fuck matter that you took care of the great great grandchild that allowed a series of families to exist. It's far less greedy and more out of love, and you meet the important elements of family.
My mother's father is depressed, my mother is depressed, and I am depressed, so I have decided to never have children. I want the curse to end with me.
>>35085606>just be a cuck and take care of another man's bastard
>>35085606i never expected to get an actually thoughtful response that made me think. huh. i guess another reason i dont wanna have kids is im not quite sure what my sexuality is and i dont want to disgrace some poor kid with a faggot of a father, doubly so for an adopted kid since theyre more likely to have embarrassing faggots for parents. if i have a kid they are getting raised catholic. they will have traditional role models. plus guys and trannies dont even want kids a lot of the time so theres that too.
>>35078391Humanity abandoned eugenics, they decided to collectively take the hit. Go for it.
>>35086442The vast majority of gay people in history had children anyway because it was expected for people to procreate and there used to be real financial incentives. Basically as fucked up as it is, children were put to work, so they earned income, and in your old age a big family was a sort of a retirement plan.Don't let some concern over your sexuality stop you from procreating. So long as you actually want kids and know you'll try to be a good father.
>>35086481also im on hrt now. i didnt want to say because people on here are not nearly as kind to trannies/half trannies as they are cis people but i think i should be honest and upfront. im not a woman, i dont see myself as a woman, i never will, i just like hrt. it makes me feel comfortable. but like i said, i want a hypothetical kid of mine to have a traditional mother and father. not mother/father and some weird half tranny thing thatll get them mercilessly bullied for. so really im just trying to decide if i would rather be who i want to be or have a family, and its a tough judgement call given how many problems i have. so i feel like its just safest to potentially fuck up my own life instead of a wife and kids.
>>35086487You're in a good situation to stop HRT and just have a family. I guess I'm concerned you'll regret not doing so much later if you already sort of want a traditional family
>>35078391Very VERY few mental illnesses have been shown to have genetic roots, so it is very unlikely that you are doomed to carry on some "crazy" gene. On the other hand, there IS evidence of family patterns repeating themselves, in that someone who (for example) grew up in a dysfunctional family may only know that pattern and unconsciously recreate it in the next generation.Fortunately that second pattern is something that can be consciously resisted - that is, by being determined to not continue the family pattern you can keep from repeating it
>>35086492me too. but at the same time, i might very well not end up with a family anyways and quitting hrt will have been in vain so im just alone and feel like shit and not myself. plus i know theres no replacement for fatherhood but im a gamedev. some of my favorite gamedevs like kamiya are single to this day and consider their games their children. its kind of sad because a person is more valuable than a game but i dont know, its a little bit motivating.
>>35086510You need to plant your feet on the ground and truly ask yourself what you want out of life. If that's raisin children then you have plenty of time to pivot towards that. If the goal is game dev only, that's fine, but you have to live with the consequences of either choice when you're 40/50/60. Doing some HRT and it not being for you isn't some vain thing, you tried it, and have a much stronger opinion on it now than maybe someone who hasn't. Chances are you'll still be able to father children or at least adopt and raise them as your own.
>>35086561the thing is, it is for me. i like hrt so far and im excited to see it work more. thats what makes it so tough, i want to actualize who i want to be but i dont want to miss out on one of the most impactful experiences of one's life. its like half social pressure and half just generally a nice thought. its hard to know what ill want when im 40, 50 or 60 because i havent thought that far ahead up until recently when i actually decided i wanted to live past 40. a decision i made based off doing hrt and it making me more comfortable in my own skin. its just a really, really tough battle and i hope you dont take this as me trying to endlessly argue the point. im just so torn between these two things.one thing that helps is i think of hrt as a low risk, medium reward option and not doing hrt as a high risk, high reward option. ive always been safe and pragmatic so i think its more true to me to take the low risk life that brings me happiness still rather than playing with fire and taking on the high risk option and it potentially blowing up in my face. ill leave that as my final rebuttal, i dont want this back and forth to go on forever. both of our time is more valuable than that.
>>35086561by the way, thank you for having a cordial, thoughtful dialogue about this with me. i appreciate you giving a measured response. it helps put things into perspective and challenge notions i have.
>>35086442Thank you for letting me know it was thought provoking, I hoped it was! I was also raised catholic and I am a gay man, so I would suggest you question that as well e.g. do you want religion for structure, to teach morality, for the child to have a relationship with god or spirituality. But if you do chose to go down that path there are plenty of interpretations of the bible that are inclusive of gay people. I personally do not believe it is compatible with christianity, I think if you're reading and subscribing to the text in earnest the god described is pretty prejudical and sadistic, but you're also building a highly important core of your life around a self-contradictory religious text.In your responses here you reflect why you may feel shame about having kids or concerns for the welfare of the children but you're not expressing a positive desire to have children, why you might want children. Being gay or trans or nonbinary is a normal part of existing as an animal, some of the animals at a normal rate have differences because nature isn't perfect, which is why we have sexual reproduction in the first place - for genetic diversity. This isn't to say it is genetic, I'm saying it's a normal feature of being an animal that develops from genes, like how we have a "normal" rate of intersex people because we have 2 sexes and they are developed organically, so occasionally the wiring gets messy and you get intersex people at a regular ("normal") small rate in any population. I share this because your default state is not something to be ashamed of, similar to how although nudity is societally deemed as sexual or shameful, it's actually the default setting and the clothes are the non-nornmative thing. Nothing to be embarassed about, it's literally the body you find yourself in.>>35086487>>35086592>>35086599I will respond to this in next response, comment too long.
>>35086635In response to: >>35086487>>35086592>>35086599>but like i said, i want a hypothetical kid of mine to have a traditional mother and father. not mother/father and some weird half tranny thing thatll get them mercilessly bullied for.You need to define which role you wish to play in this traditionalist parenting structure if you want to adhere to traditional gender norms. I can't really give that to you, and if you want two out of accordance things you have to decide what is more important to you, you cannot go to two different parties at the same night - this is part of what makes the choices meaningful because you decide what your priorities are: is truth or normativity more important to you? If you want to end bullying is hiding in the shadows and teaching this to your children the right means to do that? Part of parenting will be loss of control inherently around the child you care for and you have no choice but to respect that before you involve another person (the child). Your views on traditional gender roles may be a byway for other values like respect and family that don't actually relate to how you express. I would also like to share that as a cis gay man, I find that trans and gender or sex non-normative people especially online, tend to overemphasize adherence to gender normativity and roles that is very much out of accordance with the cis experience. Everyone is very different and I never think about my identity as a man in the sense of "am i masculine enough, is this traditional man behavior, is this act too feminine" because it's who I am not other's fleeting thoughts, what matters is my masculinity. What matters is how you show up for your sex or gender identity today, like my grandmother's short hair does not relate to my viewing of her as a woman, we are not litmus testing our sex because it simply is. I show up to knitting as a man, it does not determine me. You can be traditional and gender non conforming.
>>35086442i want kids but i think that's just probably my lust speaking and not anything really concrete so maybe i don't want them. i do also tear up at family pictures like and stuff like you did though. shame we have to live this life but it is how it is, i personally can't have kids genetically and i don't find women attractive so i think there's nothing for me to do but just try and live out the rest of my life the best i cant. tranny
