That's called Providence

>>24517157
Why would I expect God to be nice when reality isn't nice?

>>24517157
yeah i explain to my family that "my god" is vague and not a petty fag who expects people to follow a bunch of stupid rules that contradict each other

to me if "god" is real, he's cool as fuck and understands vibes

>>24517157
>can punish sins harshly but doesn't punish permanently
That is exactly the kind of God many believe in... eternal hell is just a misunderstanding that's been propagated.

>>24517159
I've thought we're have been reborn into a Hell like planet and God is just very merciful and doesn't like chucking people into lava. Like we all have past lives we stole, killed, cheated, or were massive dicks so we're stuck on earth.

Like we're in a purgatory or limbo but non christian version type of realm.

I don't know though, I've not met God and I'm not an angel.

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>>24517159
Who knows, I think there is something about not making things too personal, the universe makes a lot of sense when you see it as some sandbox for stories to happen.

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>>24517161
It has been a matter of debate for aeons now, one thing I would like to point out, the harsh parts of the Bible seem to have been written during periods of upheaval, which make people cruel and have low trust.

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>>24517157
Research the crested eagle Storm God of the Chaoskampf. He slay the serpent/dragon.

https://odysee.com/@Das_Syndikat:3/Chaoskampf-Donnergott:a?lid=202486f5bba9907a17239545830e09ad361a3189

>>24517165
slays*

>>24517163
I think evil makes sense when I think God allows ultimate free will. When you think from the perspective of God is so pro-free will he allows murder and rape and child abuse because he will not mind control everyone into niceness and wants us to choose good, life makes a lot more sense when not in a moment of pain.

To me at least when not in emotional or physical pain.

When in emotional or physical pain I can think God is unfair but that passes when the pain passes. Which makes sense to me at least.

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>>24517165

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>>24517168

>>24517157
Most of what you described is exactly what Swedenborg wrote about and how he described life after the death of the body.

>>24517157
That sounds nice anon

The Jews

>>24517164
The eternal part is illustrated by how nothing can practically grow, maintain or be recovered in the midst of fire. Illustrated through imagery people of the times would have understood and felt a stronger connection to than us today.
With today's technology there are many illustrations we could pick apart and say X or Y is now possible, but we get the meaning of the illustration anyway. These days you could gather all the feathers once they're let loose but all the same we understand how it applies to the way rumors can spread.
As well, you're right, there are times when God tolerates not choosing the most peaceful, upright way being taken even by those who attempt to follow him. For now. Yet keeping enemy combatants to torture till the end of their days or being caged and displayed wasn't the usual way. Striking them down was.
God knows people have various limits due to their culture and imperfection and works around that at times, but one day neither of those will be limit factors and people will have the capacity for choosing the upright way all the time

>>24517157
God having a nature of "niceness" doesn't really make any sense given the nature of our world - it has violence, chaos, instability, random mutation, supply & demand cruelty, events where blank slates are harmed (seriously can you justify an infant dying because a Jeet driving a truck was on his phone?).

Classic religion tries to reframe that as the universe being cursed because of man, the devil doing it, or some kind of free will excuse. If you think for a while you'll find these equally lame.

What I do think, is that there is enough evidence for a creator or something greater than this world from the evidence of our world. But its also very likely (my pov) that he isn't inherently nice but prefers to have an open set of events where there are as many possible paths, including random influence playing a big factor.

In short: the nice God is at best a delusion. A more realistic vision is a God that just lets the universe play out as it wants to.

>>24517174
I agree with this part
> is a God that just lets the universe play out as it wants to.

God does this exactly I think.

But I think it may be niceness in the end. I hate being controlled, and I think there may be a big lesson to be learned about not being nice.

And if I just like God and God isn't nice, but is complete utter free will to the point of being harsh, well I just like God because I like existing.

Is God really that harsh if we all get eternal life in the end after a shitty less than 100 years on earth in a place with no pain where God may even set us up with a wife who agrees to marry us in free will, like playing match maker where we still have to get to know them and decide to get married? Like not arranged marriage, but God puts two compatible people together and lets the universe play out.

I want a wife forever in Heaven second most in eternity. First most I want to exist.

Maybe after we die we'll learn how important free will is.

The baby actually died because in the hypothetical the Indian guy drunk drove and made a bad free will choice.

God would have to mind control us all into obedience and puppeteer everything to stop evil. Especially if even perfect angels ever fell after meeting God.

Because even Angels with 1 million + IQs who were born in Heaven may sin at times.

Perhaps, God wants a chance for Good and a chance for evil and wants us to pick good because reality is important to him.

>>24517174
It makes sense when you realize that to love somebody means to want what's best for them, and what's best for us is that we become wise. God does not want to coddle us, delude us with comforts or turn us into self indulgent slobs with no character, no principles and no virtues. God wants us to become good, because happiness is synonymous with goodness. We experience pain so that we can grow, learn and have compassion for others. Only someone who doesn't perceive value in the correct things would experience this life and then come away from it thinking that God is unloving or callous, in the same way that only a kid with a rotten attitude fails to appreciate the lessons that his fathers teaches him.

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>>24517157
sounds like fundamentally unscientific bullshit to me. its "in my mind it was real" type of nonsense.
like your whole premise assumes that the universe has a personality or an intention regarding human behavior.
thats highly unlikely.
the universe is basically driven by massive electrical currents and interconnected plasma structures. these systems operate on laws of physics that are indifferent to human morality.
and life and consciousness are emergent dissipative structures within these thermodynamic processes.
so to suggest a "Generic God" is managing our moral lessons ignores the actual mechanisms.

>>24517177
OP's proposition is actually more scientific than the idea that the universe has no mind and no will. If minds and wills exist in the universe, which they do, then mind and will must exist in the first cause of the universe. Otherwise, you would be claiming that something came from nothing, which violates every scientific law and logical axiom in the book.

>>24517157
I'm a pantheist.

I believe that god is the universe.

I believe that God created evil, so that we could see good.

But I also believe that in my daily life I encounter good at a rate of 9x that of evil at least.

So in my mind. The universe isn't uncaring, otherwise why would we enjoy art, taste food, feel pleasure.

God wants us to be happy. but in order to know happiness, we need to know some suffering, and that suffering can be pretty cruel, but if you let the suffering consume you, you will never feel the grace of redemption.

>>24517178
>If minds and wills exist in the universe, which they do, then mind and will must exist in the first cause of the universe
That does not follow
You are assuming that there is a first cause of the universe
The universe is likely eternal and cyclical

>Otherwise, you would be claiming that something came from nothing
And where did God come from?

>>24517176
What about entities that never end up consciously experiencing events to ever grow or learn? I deliberately used the infant crushed by jeet-truck example because it shows that totally blank slate characters can be destroyed without ever being given a chance to experience or learn or grow.

Your vision falls flat, and is simply far too weak - its not real. Which also defeats Abrahamism and most popular religions out of the gate.

>>24517179
You could refine that belief with the idea that evil is a privation, and not a creation. Meaning God is like a sun that radiates only goodness and love, and evil only exists where he doesn't shine in the same way that the sun doesn't create shadows, but shadows exist where its light can't reach. The only place where God's goodness can't reach is the mind of a man who has turned away from goodness and love, but that man must be allowed to turn away if he so wishes because in order for goodness to be meaningful it must be a choice. Basically God only creates good because God is goodness itself, and evil is merely the absence of good and not anything that was created in the same way that cold and darkness were never created, they're just the absence of something else.

>>24517157
WHAT A USELESS POST.
FUCK YOU FAGGOT.
BURN IN HELL.

>a Generic God like a ball of light thats nice who doesn't eternally torture?
god is more like a guy who set up a public minecraft server without rules or moderation

I am OP.

Would any of you complain about the dead babies hit by drunk Indians or people sacrificing kids if you die and find out

>babies went right to Heaven even if didn't believe shit and weren't baptized either and theyre existing in Heaven forever even though yeah baby killing fucking sucks and is evil as shit
>the drunk Indian was supposed to not do what he did and God didn't support the action God just doesn't puppeteer everything
>you get eternal life that never ends, as in trillions upon trillions of years of existance
>God doesn't burn your friend's family acquaintances or even enemies in lava eternally


I think eternal existence makes up for a lot of pain.

>>24517157
>Does anyone believe in a Generic God like a ball of light thats nice who doesn't eternally torture?

Yup, that's the God of the Bible. For more information come here. >>537222624

>>24517180
It does follow, because there must be a first cause of the universe. An infinite regression cannot subsist on itself, because an infinite regression would be an infinite series of potentials with no actual. Like a series of dominoes with nobody to knock them over. There must be a "real" or "actual" in order for anything within a chain of cause and effect to exist subsequently. Rejecting cause and effect is really no different from rejecting logic, and rejecting logic is nothing more than conceding the argument.

>And where did God come from?
God didn't "come from" anywhere or anything. If God is the creator of time and space, then God existed prior to time and space. Which means God is outside of time and space. If something exists outside of time, that means there was never a point in time at which God did not exist. Meaning he is eternally uncaused, uncreated and unmade. He simply "is".

>>24517157
Homos rape kids, hence the stoning

>>24517182
So God is an architect who built a house, but some of the rooms have no windows and no light fixtures, preventing light from reaching it.
And you're saying it's the owner's fault that the house was designed that way?

Put another way, calling evil an absence rather than a thing doesn't explain why an omnipotent creator designed a world where such absences inevitably arise

>>24517188
I refuse to believe there are not gays who are not in faithful relationships that are loving or celibate.

I don't even like gays but I know throwing rocks at the heads of things I don't like is wrong even if I think what theyre doing is gross.

>>24517181
>What about entities that never end up consciously experiencing events to ever grow or learn?
That's too bold of an assumption on your part. How do you know they aren't reborn again in order to learn the lessons they missed out on? How do you know that they don't go on learning in the next life? How do you know that they didn't absorb some valuable lesson unconsciously, and that that one small lesson wasn't the final missing piece of the puzzle that would allow them to ascend? Your complaints only make sense under the idea that you get one shot at learning and that's that, but that isn't a realistic assumption to make.

>>24517187
>there must be a first cause of the universe
Please provide evidence for this claim
It is possible that the universe is eternal, and recent evidence from DESI indicates that a cyclical big bang/big crunch is likely

>>24517157
>Shouldn't the God of reality, a place where the consistent pain of life is justified by the quest for deep meaning, and where the natural laws are infinite in complexity and require constant focus and attention to not die and get everyone killed, be an extremely simplistic and vague image that requires I do nothing?

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>>24517175
If the end state is guaranteed (Eternal Life/Heaven) then the variables arent truly free.
you want them to be part of a predetermined trajectory toward a fixed goal.
so if the destination is programmed then this journey isnt free will at all and basically it’s just scripted.
so why do you contradict yourself?
you want the illusion of choice with the guarantee of a happy ending? thats really just wishful thinking.
+ you cant have a dynamic existence in a static paradise.
your vision of heaven is actually literally just a scientific description of a dead universe where nothing ever happens.
clearly this is not whats going on here.
>>24517178
the something from nothing fallacy only applies if you assume a temporal beginning to the universe.
if the universe is eternal, infinite, and endless as supported by the continuous cycles of energy and plasma seen in cosmic structures then there is no first cause requiring a transition from non existence to existence.
also your leap from minds exist to the source must have a mind is logically retarded.
minds are emergent properties resulting from specific complex arrangements of matter and energy (non equilibrium states).
the emergence does not imply that the foundational substrate of the universe possesses intentionality.
like a hurricane has a highly organized structure and behavior, but it doesnt possess a will.
also another mistake you make is mistaking the map for the territory.
mathematics is a derivative tool used to model patterns within reality, it is not reality itself.
so using mathematical models of beginnings or singularities to demand a conscious creator ignores the actual physical reality which is an infinite, eternal universe driven by plasma dynamics and thermodynamic gradients, which function perfectly well without a mind behind them.
so technically we dont need a made up God figure to explain anything we see here.

>>24517191
>That's too bold of an assumption on your part
Then literally one sentence later
>How do you know they aren't reborn again in order to learn the lessons they missed out on
So now you're assuming God, the existence of a soul, the concept of reincarnation, and that there are divine lessons to be learned

Typical

>>24517189
No, I'm saying that God put in the windows and the light fixtures, but the tenants of the home went out of their way to destroy the lights and blockade the windows. But the tenants had to be allowed to do this, because their ownership of the house was the purpose of the house being built in the first place. The universe was built in order to teach us to love good and shun evil. In order to learn those lessons in a meaningful way, we have to have the option of choosing evil and then intentionally reject it. Evil arises because not all people choose correctly. But even this isn't a bad thing on the part of God, because their bad choices serve as a lesson for those of us who witness their evil and decide that it would be too shameful to go down the same path.

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>>24517157
>creates homosexuals and bisexuals and allows them to be in relationships as he or she created the homosexuals and bisexuals
>never commanded people to throw stones at the heads of gays

The retard who lacks a structured faith loves gays and cries when they get hurt? That tracks.

>>24517157
Not specifically what you say, but I do believe God is good and merciful. I don't see the reason a god who punished half or more of all people who generally fall under 'neutral' morality would exist. For what purpose?

>>24517191
Probably because there is absolutely no evidence of reincarnation and different lives? Your current argument opens up a serious issue too: why should an entity with no recollection of its past face severe punishment and violence when its lacking all awareness?

Abrahamism is logically weak, as is your vision.

>>24517193
>that requires I do nothing?
I said, no murder, theft, cheating, violence that isn't self defense, no cheating. I did not say God requires nothing, I said he expects us to figure it out with no book.

I don't want God to allow murder, rape, theift and cheating and violence and being an asshole. I don't think he does.

I haven't figured it all out yet. But maybe God doesn't expect us to be his sons literal slaves and doesn't throw us into lava pits forever? That's what I hope.

I dislike how the Bible says we have to be slaves of Christ, and talks about eternal torture. Yes I know it may be a mistranslation but that's a big mistake for a deity to allow to go on if the book is really their word, and a big mistake for a deity to allow their religion to make.

The Bible also says no marriage in Heaven. I want a wife who's my best friend forever. Faithful sex with a beautiful woman who's my wife and best friend forever who I don't have to share with everyone is my greatest hope after existing forever free.

I know there is a Creator but I don't know for sure who they are. I have hope though they're something like I described.

I don't like the slave shit in the Bible dude. Doesn't mean I think God allows murder and rape and cheating.

>>24517192
Every effect has a cause. That's the basis of our reality. The chain of cause and effect must terminate in a cause that is itself uncaused and eternal, otherwise you would have an infinite regression of effects with no cause. To say that there's no cause and everything is all effects forever is to reject cause and effect itself, which is to reject logic. Even within the confines of what we can observe, it's clear that some thing exist prior to matter and outside of time. The laws of physics, for example, must exist prior to matter itself. Otherwise there would have been a point in time at which matter existed but no laws to govern matter's behavior.

>>24517196
>The universe was built in order to teach us to love good and shun evil
Could God have done that without making it a place with rape, torture, and furries?
Furthermore, what lesson is learned by earthquakes, floods, and pediatric cancer?

>>24517199
There's no evidence that life ends after the death of the body. Reason has always pointed to the necessity of an eternal consciousness, because the same laws that dictate that nothing can come from nothing also dictate that nothing can fade into nothing. Otherwise we wouldn't even have a universe, if things that existed could simply stop existing. I'm not trying to propose any particular theory, I'm saying that your theory relies on the assumption that we only get one crack at learning within a very short timeframe.

Also, there's no such thing as punishment because there's no such thing as pointless suffering. All pain is pedagogical, not punitive. That much is provable in the here and now, and doesn't rely on any theories.

>>24517201
an eternal system doesnt need a mover since the energy flows are continuous.
basically there was never a time when "nothing" existed for your imaginary God to fix. its eternal.
also the big bang cosmology model has failed for 40+ or so years so there is zero physical evidence for any of your big bang claims.

>>24517157
>In the NT paul commands slaves to obey their master like they were Jesus
Advice given to people who were legally enslaved. You can't judge it from a 21st century worldview. Paul had a lot of Wisdom and gave good advice. Would it turn out well for them to make a big stink and create problems for their slave master who could legally beat them or whatever? Paul also told them to get free if they could.
The best way to read the Bible is slowly as to understand it and not apply any spin you may have learned from religions.
>cruelty
The Israelites had to wipe out the offspring of fallen angels, the Nephilim. The giants. Before the flood, they had made the world so bad that God; who is a righteous, wise, and loving God, had decided that the absolute best thing to do was kill everybody including all the animals. But Noah found favor in His eyes.

>>24517203
>>24517204
KEEP DEBATING YALL.
WE STILL GONNA BURN YOU IN HELL.
DELUSIONAL DESIGNED LOSERS.
CHOSEN TO DIE.
GOODBYE.

>>24517205
>legally enslaved
Wow
It's always amazing to me when a Christfag unironically endorses slavery

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>>24517157
God doesn’t eternally torture, humans at least. Picrel.

>>24517203
Ok but that still doesn't explain how or why an entity's world experience can end almost instantly in the most brutal and pointless fashion before said entity can ever develop true consciousness or experience. What you're saying is basically that our experience here might not matter because you get another chance elsewhere, while simultaneously saying it matters because you can learn things from bad experiences.

It just doesn't make sense. I have never met a single Abrahamic or trad religious person who could ever apply rational/logical reasoning to beat me in a direct debate. It always ends up with appeal to feelgood feels.

>>24517202
>Could God have done that without making it a place with rape, torture, and furries?
No, he could not have. For the same reason why God can't be incoherent, can't be evil and can't be self-contradictory. Your question is kind of like asking "why can't God make a circle that's square?".

>what lesson is learned by earthquakes, floods, and pediatric cancer?
That man's only possession is his own conduct. Even the Stoics were keen on this lesson and saw the value in it, so it's got nothing to do with "Abrahamism".

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>>24517207
They were legally enslaved in the Roman Empire by the laws of the land at that time. Paul was giving them advice for the specific situation they were in. I was saying it was legal, not that it was right.
So, I didn't endorse slavery in that context. I was describing details of situations.

>>24517210
>No, he could not have.
Why would I worship a God that is so weak he cannot even prevent pediatric cancer?

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You had every chance to be nice to Jesus because I was here. You worship Saklas. He is the source of all suffering, illness, poisoned food, disunity, and racial tension

He just fucks with your senses, I'm sorry bro HAHAHAHA

Heeheeheeheehee :P

He was given great authority, and he ruled over the creation of poverty. He created gods and angels, archangels, myriads without number for retinue, from that Light and the tri-male Spirit, which is that of Sophia, his consort. For from this, God originated divinity and kingdom. Therefore he was called 'God of gods' and 'King of kings'.

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>>24517157
>In the NT paul commands slaves to obey their master like they were Jesus, how isn't this supporting slavery? inb4 muh freedom. Freedom is good
the point was to infiltrate and convert by sheer behavior alone. show the masters that Christ's teachings were better than any slave culture ever could be.
there is no point in revolt.
subverting evil slave culture by demonstrating a better way of life is the correct way.

but the jews created islam in response

>>24517212
>Paul was giving them advice for the specific situation they were in
So the advice was "Yeah, keep those slaves, since they're legal"?
Shouldn't an all-just all-loving God have Paul tell them to not own slaves?

>>24517209
It makes perfect sense, you just have to drop the idea that there's such a thing as pointless suffering. All suffering points to a lesson, because if there was no lesson then there could be no suffering. If you were perfectly wise you would either be unbothered by the situation or you would have known how to avoid the situation. No matter how subtle, the lesson does get picked up through repetition. Just as a thought exercise, imagine being a lazy person who squanders his life, and then being reborn as a barnacle or some other miserably immobile creature. That experience, in a subtle way, would teach you to value your next human life.

Also, I'm not sure why you keep harping on about Abraham when the things I'm explaining to you are traditionally Buddhist.

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>>24517215
>but the jews created islam in response
Saklas

>>24517157
The Christian God (the only real One) doesn't eternally torture anyone. The Christian God is infinitely merciful and offers salvation to everyone who accepts it.
If you end up suffering eternal damnation, it's because (You) freely chose to reject God's love and salvation.
It's like having a terminal disease, and a doctor comes in and freely offers you the medicine that will cure you. If you still choose to reject the medicine the doctor offers you and end up dying, that's not the doctor's fault. Your death is entirely on you for being a dumbass.

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>>24517213
>Why would I worship a God that is so weak he cannot even prevent pediatric cancer?
it's a hands off universe.

muslims believe in a pure hands on universe. even non-muslims are controlled by allah.
crazy shit that allows muslims to rationalize their actions with no guilt

>>24517216
That wasn't what was being discussed. Paul was giving advice to the slaves who had become believers in Jesus, not the slave masters.

>>24517213
Coherency and goodness are strengths, not weaknesses. What you're getting hung up on is that you don't understand what good is. You think that ease, comfort, relaxation and self indulgence are good. In reality, only wisdom, selflessness, justice and virtue are good. Trials and lessons need to exist in order for wisdom and virtue to exist, which is why a coherent universe must contain both.

>>24517220
>it's a hands off universe.
Fine, but then the question becomes
Why should I worship a God that doesn't give a fuck about me and actively ignores preventable evil?

>>24517217
K so what is the lesson for a newborn that's sleeping in his moms car when it gets rammed at 120km/h jeettruck? The newborn has no real experience, he has no context of the world, perhaps the event is even so fast and destructive that it doesnt even trigger a pain response let alone a conscious experience to learn from.

Like I said, your vision sucks because you use feelgood feels to fuel it, just like most mainstream religions. Feelgood feels is great for telling a story and becoming a popular ideology - but its simply false when describing our world.

>>24517205
>Advice given to people who were legally enslaved.

Paul told a slave who ran away to go back to their master, but the master to treat them like a brother but didn't command the master to free the slave, philmeon.

I hate legal slavery. I hate slavery.

The Bible also calls believes literal "Slaves of Christ"

I don't want to be slaves of anyone, not even God.

Bible God is fine with telling prostitutes consensual or not they'll burn in a fire or something but commands slaves to obey their master like the master is Gods son?

I don't get why if the Bible is true why God is okay upsetting prostitution and sex before marriage and going against it regardless of how unpopular in would be, but God refuses to ban slavery.

Along with throwing the rocks at the heads of gays in the old testmaent, it makes me hope for something better than the Bible.

I don't know the rules of the creator though. I sure as fuck hope there's no slavery and God allows marriage in Heaven.

Being in heaven married to a woman and never sharing her and not being a slave sounds like paradise to me.

Being forced to be a celibate slave sounds like less than an ideal eternity. Sure God could make it Heaven great still but I hope for something different than the Bible, even if it was mistranslated or misunderstood about the eternal torture/hell/lake of fire crap which sounded to me back when I used to read the Bible, like your spirit or soul burns constantly in something like lava yet you never die. I also hope for no annihilation of the soul.

I can see if God has a Hell that's a prison and people who refuse to be Good go there until theyre willing to try, but if they're not willing to try they don't get out until theyre willing to try. Indefinite prison until you start to stop being evil. But that's on the Creation then, not some
>1 chance then you're out

stuff like what I read when I read the Bible many times.

I'll hope for what regardless of religion or scripture

>>24517222
Sorry, you didn't actually answer my question, so I'll repeat it
Why would I worship or believe in a God that is so weak he cannot even prevent pediatric cancer?

>>24517157
>why god no do bad things so I can hate him

Idk jew why do you like the guy that’s going to try and torture you like your mother did?

>>24517225
If you want to get to know God, you can't go in to it with a magazine full of accusations against Him from the get go. If you want to get to know God, you have to give Him a chance.
It's quite a thing for a human to set themselves up as the Judge Of God.
If you are confused about His ways, perhaps there is something you missed or there is a mis-understanding somewhere.
Of course, if you want to hate God, plenty of things can be twisted and manufactured to paint Him in a bad light, but it's all smoke and mirrors from the devil.
God is Love. Maybe replace the word "God" with "Love" when you read the Bible.

>>24517157
Thread was moved from /pol/ by order of the demiurge. Of course that snake lion faggot would be a mod there.

>>24517372
Yeah the mod coulda just let it slide, i think it's a quality thread.

>>24517219
>The Christian God is infinitely merciful and offers salvation to everyone who accepts it.

Contingent on me believing some guy who lived 2000 years ago rose from the dead and was fully man and fully divine. Even though there aren't any independent historical records of this event from non-Christians at the time - only Christian sources.

Also people have all sorts of reasons for believing or disbelieving a religion - imagine you were born in a Buddhist or Muslim country. You're just a normal guy. You work +40 hours a week. Maybe you have kids and other family obligations. You don't have the time or inclination to seriously research different religions.

Your parents were Buddhist/Muslim/w/e. It's family tradition. You go to temple or mosque and they tell you "do XYZ to be a good person."
You want to be a good person so you follow that advice.

Some missionary you've never met, who's a different race than you, hands you a pamphlet and says
>ACKSHUALLY you're religion is false you're worshipping demons buddy MY God is the true God

Would you listen to this person if you were generally satisfied with your life and your religious leaders were ok people and you generally trusted them?

Most normal people wouldn't.

But they deserve to go to hell and be tortured forever and it'll be their fault, according to you.

>>24517157
Anyway, look into the Monad in gnosticism, got a feeling you'll like what you find.

>>24517182
Yeah that sounds intuitive, but its just a model what about vacuum energy and the dirac sea.

>>24517385
Okay great now critique jews

>>24517363
The Bible just isn't what I hope for.


I don't think slavery or throwing rocks at gays heads in the past or not is good. Neither is telling women who are virgins to marry who raped them they have to marry their rapist.

I think there's a chance that stuff isn't from God genuinly.

God is fully capable of teaching stubborn jews he's God.

I know eternal torture is evil, but to me seeing eternal torture as good is a litmus test to see if someone is completely backwards in their sense of good and evil.

I see the Bible as having mostly good in it, but some things that seem like they could actually not be from God like woman marrying their rapist if theyre virgins (utterly degrading to be forced to marry your rapist. I'm a man whose been raped/moltested, if I was forced to marry my rapist I'd spit at God and curse him)

I can see God commanding the jews to kill child sacrificers and stuff maybe (more likely he'd just kill himself as Creator in my opinion) but the weird stuff about God telling the jews to kill the children and shit but take the virgins as their own wives is close to rape after the jews executed their people

The Bible also says we're either unmarried in Heaven or married to Jesus (believers are the bride of christ and wedding of the lamb, odd metaphor to use if the relatinoship isn't sexual a non sexual marriage?). I would not be willing to marry even God, let alone Gods son. I wouldn't share my wife with God or Jesus either

I see the Bible as having a lot of right from wrong but I am hoping actual God is different.

I don't want to be a slave, I don't want to have God or Jesus literally in my marriage literally id pick eternal celibacy if thats what bride of christ means (i dont know, guessing it weirds me out) and I want a woman all to myself in Heaven with no cheating or sharing.

Christianity means I get no wife or have to be Jesus literal spouse even if I don't touch him. That means sharing women with him. No thanks. Even if loving.

>>24517489
It isn’t why why why it just is bro. The sooner you accept what is the sooner you can stop whining like a child and make proper responsible decisions that keep you away from death, this is called wisdom

Blessed are the meek

Mathew 5:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

>>24517226
Okay so the world and it's laws, dangers, etc., aren't as perfect as you'd like, but it's still a pretty incredible place. Sure it'd be better if we were given indestructible bodies, but I think that's what the afterlife is like.

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>>24517489
Abrahamic faiths are all garbage. While there are some good sects, the core philosophy is just too rotten that it just keeps festering.

>>24517505
>accept stoning gays for doing something I don't like telling women to marry their rapist and slavery and possibly being forced to marry a male deity as a male (even if no homosexual touching and it's loving) or eternal celibacy is the way it is and accept that stuff is good and don't question it

I will question it and hope for what I want which is not the Bible.

What I want is not evil. I will hope for it, it's freedom getting to meet my family and relatives and friends and pets in Heaven and a wife all to myself if a wife agrees to be with me.

I'm hoping for a God I like that doesn't allow murder, rape, theft, cheating, slavery, forcing people to marry their rapist, and stuff like that.

I think it's quite possible God never wrote a book and who lets everyone into Heaven eventually even if they have to stay in Hell (non fire torture hell) until they try.

Do you like everything in the Bible and do you think God eternally tortures in fire?

>>24517489
King David said the law of Moses is great and that wise men meditate on it and think about it.
To me, the thing about the raped having to marry the rapist- If that was the judgment for such a situation, what kind of preventions do you think such a society would put in place to prevent rape from happening? I think they would be more on their toes about preventing rape than we are, and maybe that is the point.
The same thing with the command not to boil a young goat in its mother's milk. Not to cook its carcass in what was meant to give it life. Because it could be kind of perverse if you think about it.
Not to mix two kinds of fabric: these things are meant to be peculiar things that reveal the mind of God that cause you to consider other ways He might desire to see things done.

>>24517557
>strawman and complete lack of understanding to fit your selfish narrative

if you are offended it’s because you should be.

>>24517565
God commanded rapists of engaged women to be stoned to death.

Rapists of virgins got to marry their rape victim and the victim was forced to marry their rapist abuser and oppressor

>>24517578
I got annoyed because I was told to accept what I see as evil is good and "it's the way it is"

Can you describe to me how I'm wrong with logic and not scripture? As in, can you explain how the scriptures i referenced are good logically with out saying
>it's the way it is accept it

If the Bible shit is the way it is, I just don't like God for his actions. I don't completely hate him I just don't like him if he told women to marry their rapist if they were virgins yet commanded the stoning of engaged or married womens rapist. Why the difference here? Also why do gays deserve to die? Or people who disobey their parents? Why should slavery be legal instead of outright outlawed?

God bans consensual porn and prostitution but allows legal slavery?

Gods probably fine with doing unpopular things. Why not do the unpopular thing and ban slavery?

I think there's a good chance the Bible isn't from God but deception and actual God is way more hands off and in the end, way nicer cause all get to go to Heaven after temporary punishment if needed.

>>24517556
I'm putting my hope and action that this is true. I hope there's better than Abrahmic stuff in eternity. I will find out.

>>24517597
Ok, but think about what I said about how that outcome would probably create a very anti-rape society. Not to mention the rapist considering being stuck with someone he raped forever, which is a very peculiar thing indeed.

Explaining the Old Testament is advanced knowledge, you absolutely need to start with the New Testament that is the core of Christianity.

The Old Testament is a history and you look at it with a critical eye knowing full well that if humanity becomes destitute and delivered into the hands of the enemy then that’s exactly where we are going back to.
The Old Testament lays out a series of laws that had to be accepted in full or not at all. The point of it was to demonstrate the master slave relationship. Back then, to even walk on someone’s land you had to have the guardianship of a master that you reported to. This is honestly no different than today in a vague sense, when you go to your friends house he wants to know what your dad has taught you protected you guided you, that creates a common ground and eliminates iniquity as long as your dad didn’t spread bad habits to you.

As a man you are the master of your house, being grown means you leave your dad’s mastership and gain mastery over your own life and household.

You as the master then pass on this protection to your own son and as long as you are his master then you are somewhat responsible for the protection and the outcomes of your life.

These “slaves” as you call them back in the day were treated better than you are currently being treated by the jews because they are bad usury masters.

They were treated like children needing to be raised.

Women are incapable of fully actualizing the protective master energy, they are protective in other ways, mainly forgiveness for wrongs and also providing love and softness, calming and quieting the protective male master spirit into temperance and wisdom. So there for women needed special rules for maintaining their value in society.

I know this went way over your head but I played it out for you, maybe not as clearly as I could in this short format with limited time before bed but hopefully some wisdom comes through for you.

Ask God to help you understand my words without his guidance what I just said will just piss you off further. “Pearls before swine”


God is the ultimate wise master having both the protective nature of the man and the calming nature of the woman

He is the ultimate forgiving master. He is master of the universe

You as the master then pass on this protection to your own son and as long as you are his master then you are somewhat responsible for the protection and the outcomes of your SONS life

Sorry typo and I ran out of characters

>>24517643
Rape rape rape is that all you think about? If you keep that up you will become a rapist yourself
Women that cling to rape become emotional rapists and sometimes even physically rapists when they fuck you and then fuck your life over because they were an empty vessel that could not be trusted with your heart

Aaaand the demons fled instead of listening.

Goodnight

>>24517732
I get the sense that ancient Israel slavery was maybe a way for the destitute to have a roof over their heads. And they were supposed to be released after 6 years anyway, maybe after they learned a trade and work ethic. And they could choose to stay forever if they wanted. When people join the Army, they sign over all their rights and become property of the government for 4 years.
Modern jobs can be a lot like slavery except you have to have your own place and feed yourself.

The only counter a demon can comeback with from this is something childish

>>24517783
You see the master slave relationship reflected in many layers of society

The one that really matters though is the one between you and God

>>24517787
That and your own dad as a second best

>>24517759
>Rape rape rape is that all you think about?
No, but sir, this is the rape conversation, so naturally, it comes up.

>>24517505
Your parents hit you with the ol "because I said so" a lot, didn't they?

When you give yourself over to God he also takes some responsibility over the outcome of your life like your Father should, leads you to compassion and responsibility for your community.

You grow with Him and your life becomes fuller

>>24517793
You are honestly bringing it up where it doesn’t even make sense. You are worshipping rape over logic

That’s why rape will grow in you if you do this

>>24517794
Child things are gonna get easier

>>24517813
Every post in that reply chain going back 6 posts mentions rape except for where I didn't mention it at all to begin with. I didn't bring it up.

>>24517847
Be careful of those thieves and rapists

>>24517847
And again it’s not even relevant to the conversation and I won’t discuss it further