Why did the PUA movement failed? It might have had some bad actors but in theory the things it teaches do make sense. It sort of mixes up CBT and social dynamics knowledge and puts it all into practice until you learn stuff like dealing with rejection, reading social cues, identifying women who are worthy of your time, etc. It sure beats the alternative of staying home and doing nothing about being lonely. For some reason it got entangled with alt right politics so I suppose that's part of why it failed, but had it been curated more carefully I think it would have ended as a legit form of psychotherapy.
>>25093596Just dress like and act like a faggot to get pussy.
>>25093596Because there's no magical equation to attracting women. You need to be conventionally attractive and confident or have money. Its really that simple.
>>25093596worked for me, the stigma was because it worked, it was actually a good thing, filtered out a lot of potential competition. what screwed the pooch was women catching on and too many guys trying. now women have a form of this, that whore podcast call me daddy is an example, basically weaponizing hypergamy. sorry zoom zooms, you have no idea how good we had it>t. 33 yr ol boomer
>>25093596PUA and Redpill both got BTFO by the BlackPill. Online experiments showed that only looks matter and having an "alpha attitude" or whatever doesn't matter.Attractiveness is innate and cannot be taught.
>>25093596men stopped wanting to bother/approach dating apps made men lazier and less ballsy
>>25093600looks can give you a higher ceiling, yes, but no a bunch of us ugly dudes got laid, you lean into your strengths....if you have none, then why should you mate/procreate? so yeah genetic dead ends were fucked, but werent they always? we are talking like 2% of the population, dumb, bald, weak, poor, small...and even then many can still make it work
>>25093596they buck broke themselves
Women BTFO'd the PUA movement by telling police that the creepy guy who approached them is harassing/sexually harassing/stalking them.
obligatoryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq_LakJTsIE
>>25093596PUA is just overthinking what normal and cool guys naturally do. The movement is made up of 3 groups. Narcissists who want to scam retards whist bragging about banging girls.White autistics with no hope.Indians, ugly people and other ethnics with no hope.
>>25093596FUPA > PUA
>>25093598>>25093600You couldn't be more wrong, have you seen how ugly some of these PUA gurues were? Sure being physically attractive helps but the industry targeted those men who couldn't get by through looks alone. Women love confidence.
>>25093602Height?
>>25093608Most PUA gurus were just fucking paid prostitutes and reporting it as "getting laid".
>>25093596Mystery recently did a podcast where he talks about just this:https://www.youtube.com/live/UAHij8PUsx4
>>25093596women hate you & want you dead
>>25093608>You couldn't be more wrong, have you seen how ugly some of these PUA gurues were?It was done intentionally to make the average ugly guy believe he can score girls. Marketing 101.
>>25093596it didn't fail, the metoo era killed it because it allowed fat chuds and short kings and such to mate, which must be absolutely destroyed in the perfect matriarchal utopia, because at the end of the day access to sex is the only way that a matriarchal society can exert control over its males, and this can only ever be the case because making sex invariant to the question of power makes a woman leader redundant and turns the struggle for power into a classical race where men dominate by a huge marginfalling for the blackpill or giving oxygen to clownslop like clavicular is itself a tool of that matriarchy and a testament to its successful closure of the shortcuts but few actually understand this
>>25093606>PUA is just overthinking what normal and cool guys naturally doThere's nothing wrong with that
>>25093596PUA worked only in the late 1990s. Society changed and people stopped being social.
>>25093596It's still going strong as an industry. It's also a much older industry than people imagine. >Get rich>Get laid>Get healthyAre the three forever industries of self-help
>>25093596>Why did the PUA movement failed?tips and tricks only work when few know about it. PUA still exists but it evolved to new level, now niggers rent high end vehicles and pick up skanks with them for youtube/tiktok.
>>25093596peacocking got me a gf for awhile, i had to dump her though, then got another chick and she dumped me but she was black so whatever, now I'm married
>>25093596>Why did the PUA movement failed?Dating apps. When women use dating apps, they select primarily for: wealth, status, and height; filtering most men out, most men being unable to get dates in the first place. Going out to the club, or the bar, is fruitless, because no one man without the aforementioned three traits is valued greater than the potential of getting commitment from a man with at least one of the aforementioned three traits via dating apps. Same reason "Single's Events" don't work. Men that the dating apps work for, are flooded with women, and don't need to go, and men that the dating apps don't work for, know they aren't the guy women are looking for. So men don't show up.
>>25093605damn that's good
>>25093611>https://www.youtube.com/live/UAHij8PUsx4wow, he turned into a total beta male faggot
It's not psychotherapy though, it's manipulation techniques to pick up women
>>25093596Too many scammers got involved, anything after jon alanis until 2013 or before vin dicarlo era in 2006 wasn't in the golden era of pua. Where even strip club owners, brothel runners and the occasional sexpat surgeon gave nuanced advice. Even pimps that ran streetwalkers committed to giving some morsels of truth about women and how to efficiently fuck them and find more to fuck.
>>25093599>33>picking up women in late 2010'sLmaosorry zoomie you missed that boat as well
>>25093616True, social media and sex apps makes it impossible now
>>25093608Show him with a attractive woman now
>>25093596going by your pic, it was just too gay
>>25093617nah before it started to repackage stoicism for the youtube audience it had actual novel approaches, like hypnosis and nlp, but that's dark magic that we're not allowed to speak of anymore. plus that stuff going away is actually a huge net gain because imagine 90s PUA but it's all about the browncels trying to manipulate white women into having sex with them. imagine a seminar full of hostile jeets learning about nlp. the average RSD bootcamp actually began resembling something like that by the late 2010s so good fucking riddance
>>25093596Because it was bullshit, and they were really just inviting groupies to do blow and hook up at their party house.
>>25093596Well, first of all, kikes wormed their way into the foundations of 1st generation PUA/redpill early and threaded a bunch of utter bullshit into it to grift shekels off of desperate men, in the best-case scenario. There was a terminal saturation at which a lot of the routines listed in the books like The Game (you just lost) stopped working. Beyond that, routines aren't the best way to get women, they're just something to fall back on when you're nervous and your mind goes blank. And focusing on "this one sneaky trick technique will get you laid" type shit is what these early pickup artists were focusing on, because that's the dream they could sell to the average lazy dork piece of shit loser American to get him to part with his money for books and conferences. So much more important is your frame, and general important things that you have to invest into improving such as your body, status, money, and style contribute to it. There's no quick fix "say the magic words" solution if you're fat, lame, smelly, and dressed like shit, and the early PUAs didn't deliver the honest truth about that early on because it would be a poison pill for all the cash they were raking in, and plus some of their goofy antics still worked for short ugly jews before the end of the aughts. To this day, there are still PUA con artists that drain dorky morons' bank accounts telling them they can keep being huge doofy nerds as long as they say magic lines and learn to appreciate women as goddesses or whatever the fuck.
>>25093620>wealth, status, and heightLmaoNice cope, have you ever talked to attractive woman?they select for looks, that's it
>>25093616>>25093626I predict a dating app crash in the near future once more and more men find out these things are just ego boosters for women. These apps should be audited; how many dates have they produced, how many relationships, how many people? Same reason why men don't hit on women at the clubs anymore. PUAs solved this by teaching cold approaches.>>25093627What's attractive to you might not be attractive for someone else
>>25093596It taught people to expand your mind on human psychology, forming good habits and understanding genetic, gender predispositions in terms of human tribalism and mating. Once you build up your repertoire enough you fall off because you find success. In all things that are worth your time you learn to be of service to others, to always be thirsty for knowledge, to know how to say no while enforcing boundaries, discernment of the wheat form the chaff, to take care of yourself and to care about things higher than just yourself. PUA succeeded in all that. But once it became about going out and building up positive interactions while people are drunk it dumbed down the movement. The true PUA scene was growing as an individual and genuinely being an interesting person. But now that everyone is chronically online it's extremely hard to succeed in PUA terms. Both analysis paralysis and D&C keeps people lame.
>>25093596What happened was the right-wing became socially demonized by an enormous amount of covert funding from state actors in response to the OWS protests. Although it's hard to say what would have happened with the PUA movement, it was unable to survive this massive shift in the media no matter how much it adjusted.
>>25093633No, attractive is not subjective, everyone knows it when they see it
>>25093596>Why did the PUA movement failed?I don't know that it necessarily failed -- a lot of PUA principles are commonly accepted among normies nowadays. I would say it's more that the PUA community outlived its usefulness. There are only so many different ways you can tell men to be a cocky shitlord and not pussy on a pedestal. The PUA movement, to whatever extent it exists today, is just grifters repackaging the same insights that other men discovered 20+ years ago.
>>25093634>The true PUA scene was growing as an individual and genuinely being an interesting personThis is very profound>>25093635>What happened was the right-wing became socially demonizedWhy would you say PUA began to be linked with the alt right? I think that was already a sign that the 'movement' was beginning to rot.
These guys describe it. https://youtu.be/PAFth7jVW-A
>>25093633>a dating app crash in the near future once more and more men find out these things are just ego boosters for womenI hope you're right>These apps should be audited; how many dates have they produced, how many relationships, how many people?Would the simps care if they saw this truth. Maybe the men new to the app would quit. But at some point someone with their lust denied will go deranged, in this case they'll be simps with no self respect. >Same reason why men don't hit on women at the clubs anymore. PUAs solved this by teaching cold approaches.Very true, but the issue is most clubs aren't about dancing and flirting anymore. The women just film you for even attempting to flirt nowadays. Just another ego boost and more online attention for these foids to embarass men.
>>25093622Most of them that don't go full alt right do, look at the return of kings guy. 2 decades of pua, then went full monk and anti leftism
>>25093596How much of a simp do you have to be to dress like that, objectively speaking? You could not be more of a pussy slave if you tried.
>>25093642>ow much of a simp do you have to be to dress like that, objectively speaking?spotted a zoomer
>>25093632>they select for looks, that's itThey did 20 years ago, but then every man who wanted to get laid adopted the "Metrosexual" (Zoomniggers call it "Looksmaxxing") aesthetic, and women's standards increased beyond it. Being a vain faggot is a given, that hasn't been good enough for a long time. You can be a balding ginger-nigger, but if you're 6'5, you're going to be swimming in women, meanwhile the 5'9 counter-part is an incel. You can look like George Costanza, but if you're a Neurosurgeon, you're going to be flooded with options. Wealth, status, and height, are the three main things women look for in men since dating apps became prominent.
>>25093596Was deep into in the PUA scene from the late aughts well into the previous decade. Aside from its inherent cringe factor (due in large part to bad game and "peacocking"), the profiteering/gurudom/drama, and just running its course as a "thing" (many OG PUAs are still active and teaching but nobody cares anymore), the Me Too backlash to this and other "sexist" phenomena caused them to go underground for several years, and by the time they re-emerged the manosphere had been astroturfed by glowniggers like Andrew Tate or bullshit like looksmaxxing.Make no mistake though: "pickup" in some form will never die because game works and dudes compare notes. Been that way since before Casanova. Play on, players.
>>25093610Loser
>>25093598It really isn't though. At the very least women are attracted through social proof / standing and it's not hard to argue several other things. Money isn't that great of an attractor, it can help if she's already interested.
>>25093645What's the best PUA material (book, course, etc) that you ever interacted with, and what was the one thing you learnt about interacting with women?
>>25093598Pick up is mimicking female behavior so they can have sex with themselves. Yes women are that narcissistic.
>>25093645Wew lads
Because it’s just a grift. All these PUA’s taught you was to go to the club and approach as many drunk sluts as possible and eventually you’ll get laid. It’s dehumanizing for most people.
>>25093596Women would rather be approached by a fucking street magician than this type of guy lmfao get real
>>25093596Is any of that going to help you against the GT3 RS LA Bro with the four million dollar house in Encino? Better to never try than to fail.
>>25093648>best PUA material (book, course, etc)The rawest, realist one is called "Pimp" by Julien of Real Social Dynamics. His antics in no small part contributed to the backlash that ended up coalescing into Me Too. Flew too close to the sun —but that was the RSD culture of the early to mid-teens. No fucking quarter (as none is given by the hoes). Also an outright nod to PUA's roots in pimping, which if you want to get to the source of read Iceberg Slim.Best PUA courses hands-down were RSD. They had a very smart approach where each "guru" expressed their unique approach, all of which was ultimately rooted in the "natural" (no canned material/pickup lines) approach they championed. So within their stable, the best really does come down to preference.Again, for my money that's Julien's "Pimp." Tyler/Owen's stuff is great not only for pickup, but just self-development generally. He's very much a student of Tony Robbins and guys like that, so his philosophy and style of game reflects that.Jeffy is the quixotic funny dude with brutally honest takes. His stuff is also good.I really can't knock any of the RSD guys. Also, reading "The Game" by Neil Strauss for context on the PUA scene and its origin lore is good. Obviously Mystery's original Mystery Method book is the best for explaining the nuts and bolts of why game works (which if you don't know, the PUA hey day was brought to you by evopsych, and Mystery's basically a PhD in the field).All this stuff is increasingly difficult to find even bootlegged, but again many OGs are still going and have large youtube archives with great stuff.The Sam Hyde Show: Holding Frame with Owen Cook — https://youtu.be/CPonBFpEpzQHigh Status Communication Manifesto — https://youtu.be/k_nJBS6M8IgJeffy Charisma Manifesto — https://youtu.be/ZLuXdBpmUegUltimately as HST said, the wave broke and rolled back. The scene died and people moved on. Like anything that was good while it lasted, you had to be there.
Good luck finding any David DeAngelo, Dr. Paul or RSD materials online, it's been scrubbed. Venusian arts had merit but also a lot of fluff, mystery's VH1 bullshit tv shows was fake and gay. Only Owen Cook aka Tyler Durden is still online and teaching the ways of the PUA. GL out there chuds.
>>25093648>what was the one thing you learnt about interacting with women?No matter how much of a player you think you are or how well you may have the hoes on lock, never underestimate a woman's ability to fuck your life up, especially if she has cause and opportunity to kick you while you're down. The rest is best left to the aforesaid elder macks.
>>25093654Thanks, I'll have a look to see if I find anything online
>>25093657https://youtu.be/YJtJabkw1BYOne more for the road.
>>25093596I have met one Cuica here in LA - Inna MollHer BF was a Jew (Adam Horowitz) and she fucked Black athletes exclusively on the side.She has since moved on and married.
>>25093596>Why did the PUA movement failed?It did?It helped a ton of guys like millennial me.
>>25093659Was she scorting in the US?
pua is blackpilling when it doesn't work, doubly blackpilling when it does work. unless you're some kind of psychopath faketard most men just don't want to demean themselves dressing and acting like gay retards just for some stupid bitch
>>25093661Yes her and Veronica Zoppolo and Victoria Villarroel. The had their own South American escort group.
>>25093654is this an AI post
>>25093664No mother-fucker I'm a human being god dammit.
Even the guy in your photo found it immoralSocial media is the new place similar mogging culture is focussed on
>>25093665Then type like one
>>25093666>Fake online persona, vapid, hollow and narcissistic actual personality. Many such cases of these terminally online dopamine and validation tards.
>>25093667Sorry dude is my use of punctuation and full sentences confusing you? Do you need me to dumb it down with zoom-speak, fr fr no cap?
>>25093656All the rape allegations arising years later from guys who picked up drunk chicks in bars are testament to that.>awkward hungover morning after>"let's stay in touch" as you part waysNow she knows who you are and can report you for rape any time she feels like it, even decades into the future after you've painstakingly built up your life...all for nought.
>>25093636Most people are somewhere in the middle of the bell curve of attractiveness as perceived by a random sample of the general public. They can swing it one way or the other by their expressions and body language.
Sup brosI'm owen cook aka tyler durden from The Game
>>250936114.5K viewswhat a career
>>25093596The OG dozen or so shitposters on the puahate forum killed it (colez/macimate, confidence, Invisible, etc.)
>>25093641roosh vtrying to repent
>>25093672damn, he too turned into a typical leftist faggot
But seriously. Gaming is and was mostly a waste of time. You hardly ever convert a cold approach into a lay.The professional PUAs should have just taught men to dress up nicely, rent an apartment or hotel near a local downtown bar area, and go to bars around closing to bring a some drunken slut back to their room. Unless you're horribly ugly or morbidly obese, that's basically how it works. Also, they should have taught them to wait for women to give them IOIs, or what the zoomerniggers call "choosing signals" nowadays. If she's not interested in you from the getgo, it's mostly going to be an uphill battle.Also, they should have taught them about nofap/semen retention. After about a week or so you're usually so horny and have almost zero anxiety talking to women and don't give a shit about rejection unless you're low T. But these days you can get metoo'd and go to prison, at least in Muttmerica and Canada, so its just not worth it
>>25093624GPT:The commercialization of PUAToo many scammers got involved. In my view, anything after Jon Alanis and the period leading up to roughly 2013—or, more specifically, after the Vin DiCarlo era that began around 2006—was already outside what I would consider the golden age of PUA.The earlier scene was strange precisely because it contained people who had little incentive to present themselves as conventional self-help gurus. Strip-club owners, brothel operators, occasional sexpat surgeons, and even pimps running street prostitution sometimes offered surprisingly nuanced observations about women and sexual relationships. Their advice could be crude, transactional, or morally questionable, but it was often grounded in direct experience rather than in selling an elaborate mythology to inexperienced men.Even people operating at the margins of the sex industry could sometimes provide useful morsels of truth about attraction, courtship, sexual negotiation, and how to meet more people. The important distinction is that their knowledge was often empirical: they had spent years watching men and women interact under conditions where social dynamics were unusually visible.That was one of the peculiar strengths of the early PUA world. It was a messy collection of firsthand observations, behavioral experiments, psychology, and street-level social knowledge. Once it became a standardized industry selling increasingly elaborate systems, certifications, gurus, and identities, the incentives changed. The question gradually stopped being "What actually works in human interaction?" and became "What can I sell to men who desperately want this to work?"That transformation may have done more to kill PUA than any individual controversy or political association.
pua ruins most things that most men even want a woman forwho the hell wants one if you not only have to act like a fake retard, but also have to know that acting like a fake retard works on them
>>25093629Hypnosis and NLP (NLP being a repackage of something else btw) are both also very old. None of this is going away or has gone away. It's all still present in both biz sales (get rich by becoming more charismatic, hypnotizing clients, etc.) and generic get laid books/courses available publicly.
>>25093678that style of PUA is dead, but the game is still on. today it's; Be a Chad! is all you need to get pussy
>>25093596because people realized at the end it all comes down to looks, money and status
>>25093680The only general difference now is that prices are higher on the backend on avg.>300 USDUsed to be a high price for a non-personal offer (not requiring the seller's time), now it's>2,000 USDAnd still moving units.So your 'dark arts' products, 'too dangerous to tell everyone', 'only for people who promise to use it responsibly' offers are hidden behind a 30 dollar first purchase, sometimes a 5 dollar first purchase. All of those are bog-standard sales letter lines btw.You could probably make an easy 50 grand a year selling some retarded hypnosis product yourself.
>>25093678expand gpt1of2
>>250936842
>>25093683There's even an abundance of>I trained the CIA to hack minds!Type of biz stuff out there. Really, the more absurd the better. I'm sure an alien knowledge product would work well on that underserved niche. You will just have slightly more mentally ill customers so you should not show your face and obfuscate your real name etc.
>>25093685>>25093684>>25093678all this from anon's single comment >>25093624 and op's intro
>>25093596Cant believe this shit was even real. Fags name was Mystery and his show was pathetic and totally obvious that the women were actors. Not one man ever got a date following that trash.In real life, PUA doesnt and will never work because attraction is 100% physical and a woman decides if she likes you within 10 seconds of seeing you. >b-but rich men and famous men!1!1!1Gold digging and clout chasing. True attraction is lust, and women only lust after 6', 6", and at least 6/10.
Tony Robbins was just on stage with the President of the United States of America. I should have mentioned this before.NLP is just fine. Just like schizo-Priest 'save your soul by paying me' is just fine. You need to understand that people are not reasonable.Back on topic more: PUA became political and probably the worst PUAs are now paid by the GOP, see Matt Forney. Mike Cernovich, although I don't know if he's paid by the GOP or someone else. Etc. A lot of these people also just sell supplements/other products now. It's easier to do as a married man.
>>25093605I forgot about this loltoo accurate
>>25093634gpt; expand (NCIS recall)1of2
>>250936912
>>25093632why does a gremlin like ed sheeran have millions of women fawning all over him? you can take this to the local level, i knew completely average looking guys in college with no money who were in semi-popular bands that had women throwing themselves at them. attractiveness (height included), status, and money absolutely matter. if you have 2 of the 3 you will swim in pussy. if you have 3 of 3 it's shooting fish in a barrel.
>>25093596There's still active forums like sosuave. Roosh V is still active making content. Chateau Heartiste published his second book on pickup game back in 2021, he has a website too
>so uhhh...what do you do for money?I wipe old people's asses>...nice
>>25093596The only thing you want to learn from that whole movement is Jugglers method, if you can still find his original PUA stuff.Forget the rest of these fucktards.Deangelos "cocky funny" still works if you're subtle.
>>25093631you too, fiston1of3
>>250936972
>>25093698
>>25093694where's Roosh's content? I thought he wiped himself from the internet
>>25093687Seemed a little too wordy, but it certainly covered all the bases. Pua was more of a community thing and less of a scam a decade ago, while its roots in the 90s and 2000s were certainly kino. Where else can sexpats, pimps, psychologists, plastic surgeons and coomers meet to discuss the optimal ways to fuck?
>>25093659she looks like a downie
>>25093596>Why did the PUA movement failed?That’s begging the question. The PUA movement didn’t fail; it got smaller due to many things in society going obsolete. It got bigger as a result of women being shit and then it got smaller when women got so shitty that men don’t try as much. Some stuff is definitely out of fashion (such as negging, which only worked on damaged women). Nightgame is largely obsolete due to nobody socializing as much. OLD/hookup apps replaced a lot of it. But most women are fat disgusting gutter sluts now that nobody wants to be with. But every man should know how to daygame. Do you ever see a single woman that you can imagine wifing up? That is who you should be daygaming.
>>25093598Wrong. You can have only one or two of those traits. It is best to not lean on money because that attracts gold diggers. If you lean on looks, that attracts very vain women. Confidence is probably the only thing you can rely on alone because a confident Quasimodo will eventually score due to the numbers game. Obviously it is best to have some of all three. Note that for most of today’s men, all three can be improved upon. You can look better by losing weight and getting a haircut. You can have more money by making and saving more money. You can have more confidence will sheer will and practice. I’m not gonna say that no men have excuses for being alone because the amount of quality women is at all time lows and it’s only getting worse. Be glad that most men have zero game because if they did, you would no chance at finding a young, attractive, wife-tier woman. >>25093600Bull shit. I am ugly and fat, yet I find women that love me. I have had a virgin beg me to impregnate her (she would raise the child on her own). As for “alpha attitude”, maybe. I knew a very good looking young man (6ft, before you ask) that had no game or aura. His dick was always dry. For people like him, they open their mouths and the pussies dry up. For people like me, the pussies are dry until I open my mouth. >>25093604Bullshit. It isn’t a crime to ask a woman for her number in public, unless you follower her, expose yourself, threaten her, touch her without permission, etc. stop blackpilling people.
Damn, reading through this thread really does sell the case for incels being real.
>>25093700>>25093694Meant to say Todd v
>>25093596It didn't you just shift instead of wearing fuzzy top hats right now the big thing is Chewbacca vests.
>>25093698It has nothing to do with avoiding social isolation. It's entirely about contriving persona to pick up women. That's why it's called pick up artistry.It's called socialization, avoiding social isolation.
>>25093696>>543515446what a beautiful, angelical girl. name?
>>25094366Hapa Herpenstein
>>250937344chan is incel central you retard
fucking niggermod killing our threaaad
