>>25159778
What are you doing here Stalker?

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>>25159778
>i'm sure mental illness plays a big role in this.

Kink can be a dangerous thing. It's all about pushing boundaries. But some boundaries should not be pushed

>>25159778
>The causes (porn, degeneracy, assorted kikery) is well known at this point even by the people who are part of it, so it's not even interesting to discuss, but what about the effects of it?
the most popular types of bdsm is what would be considered normal or normal-adjacent a century ago (i.e., pre-feminism) male dominance stuff and is interchangeable with what's called rough sex.

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Some people get off on the wrong station.

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>>25159778
>finally weekend
>after a really bad week
>so tired
>the fucking lazy bitch wants you to BDSM her for hours

>>25159778
many things can happen, from the most common, financial ruin, to the rare but significant, accidental death
however, there is one sure outcome

IT MAKES YOU GAY

it is beyond certain

>>25159781
that's the thing, when is it enough? you push a boundary, now you have a new one to push and an entire system designed to help you do so

i figure a lot of people into it also want to help people get deeper into it as a personal source of satisfaction from corrupting someone, and when consequences come for them, they vanish and seek someone new

>>25159782
what about sex clubs and the like? i've found out rave orgies are quite common here and have a lot of avenues for it. The g*rman shit like Berghain/KitKat has been a thing for decades but it seems like it's getting more popular now around here, especially with young people. Boomers have their clubs, and 19-35 have theirs as well.
But you never really hear about what happens long-term in terms of self-worth, expectations of normalcy in intimacy and relationships, loss of pairbonding/love, and all that. I've been trying to look for things written about it, but to no real avail. Searches are DEFINITELY piloted.

Like those heroin addiction story/warning books, they all tell stories about how it will nuke any possibility at a normal life, and there's tons of those around, but you never see anything like 'trainspotting' but for people who are part of this.

Hell, i've seen doujins pussyfoot around this less, even though a lot of it is meant to be arousing (NTR shit and derivatives for example)

>>25159785
yes, with all that comes with it i'm afraid

>>25159778
Sadomasochism is not just a sexual kink. Its a mix of life experiences or trauma that have built specific emotional processing styles. Sadists are outspoken, aggressive, and fearless, while masochists are quiet, self blaming, and empathetic.

Most masochists are BPD while most sadists lean towards narccism. When they can adapt to each others communication styles (the masochist becomes a louder asshole, sadist becomes more empathetic and understanding) it makes for a great strong relationship dynamic, stronger than normal ones.

The problem is because these emotional processing styles are tied with sexuality, people think putting the cart before the horse is helpful. It's not. Monogamy and emotional bonding are the foundation of sadomasochism for it to be healthy. If not you get degenerate "pride" parades.

Please ask me anything.

>>25159781
>>25159786
It's not about pushing boundaries. Its about deep bonding in extreme ways. Normally the woman wants to get play raped and the man wants to play rape.

The masochist recieving pain is a relief from their strong empathy and dealing with others emotions. The dynamic builds deep trust.

>>25159778
well its a form of mental illness and surrogate narcissism.

Even when having talked about such things in past relationships jokingly, it always remained cuddly and wholesome/organic.

People often talk about how normies are NPC's, but that is not rlly true. The people who get beholden to such degeneracy, or comparable one are by definition NPC's. It makes it increasingly difficult, becauuse it is an NPC'dom which is specific to people who would usually have an amount of agency that you could call above average.

This is the long term side effects. Not being able to appreciate authenticity anymore.

That faggot sam hyde did a ''comedy sketch'' about it recently i think. America's next daddy dom or something idk.

You can see it being explicitly propagated through narcissism, as people who excel in this have per se no talent that they developed instead. It's like when you devote your life to religion just in inverse, where religion, meaning complete service to something in the service of a greater good in humility, within which you slowly develop talents to let people actually partake in, such as arts, science or actual religion, without a need for yourself. (doesnt mean you cant be proud of it or something idk, i hope you get the point tho)

So yeah. Narrcissism and degrading the common good, deriving sexual pleasure from it.

Shoutout also goes to all the faggots who browse here who would on the streets try to recruit me into orgy going. eat shit niggers. (figuratively)

>>25159786
>you never really hear about what happens long-term in terms of self-worth, expectations of normalcy in intimacy and relationships, loss of pairbonding/love, and all that. I've been trying to look for things written about it, but to no real avail.
Casual sex clubs are incredibly toxic for the mind. They are the antithesis of what BDSM emotional bonding should be.

>>25159787
>>25159788
You are wrong, in the end it is just a ''kink''

if you dont manage to develop past some kind of pathological impetus in an interpersonal relationship then you obviously have a shitty life.

if you mean to say that this is the pinnacle of relationship building then you have a maladjusted philosophical outlook imo.

>>25159778
Just normies trying to be edgy... It's incredibly cringe.

>>25159789
>The people who get beholden to such degeneracy, or comparable one are by definition NPC's
Its not degeneracy inherently. Its specific emotional processing styles that involve specific sex acts for relief.
>Narrcissism and degrading the common good, deriving sexual pleasure from it.
Thats only the sadist side. The masochist wants to be degraded so they can stop caring about everyone else's feelings for a while. To the masochist's mind, its a selfish act.

Sadists are also often higher empathy outside the bedroom.

Counterpoint:

Girls are super cute tied up.

>>25159791
>Sadomasochism is not just a sexual kink. Its a mix of life experiences or trauma that have built specific emotional processing styles.
Retard. Yes describing it as maladjusted is accurate. Either way S/M make great pairs with deeper and stronger emotional bonds than normal people.

>>25159778

NOT POLITICS

>>25159793
its to a degree also the masochists side, as both is driven by narcissism, which is the more proper framework.

lots of things are describable via narcissism, while obviously masochism only is describable through some form of emotional verification as you yourself admit.

If you want to have a healthy relationship you inherently need to develop past something like this anyway, because else you will remain a gratification driven mentally stunted child.

>>25159787
well, it's about what i've said in the previous post, i am not against the idea of kink and all that in a relationship dynamic (i'm not vanilla, or at least wouldn't be if i wasn't alone -by choice, yes really- right now) but seeing how popular it is, curiosity does arise

especially when it comes to involving other people and how that can disrupt a relationship between two people or how continuing to push boundaries and expecting the other person to understand that can shatter trust and respect for the other person

i also question the ethics of getting someone into it, and if that relationship ends, the other person is now part of something that they wouldn't have been if it weren't for you.

I'm not a part of it myself, but it mirrors a lot of how things go down with people who experiment with drugs for one reason or the other, and i'd like to know if anyone has written anything of note about it especially after years being in it

and: a lot of people (girls included) just do so in the most impersonal way possible, like hiring masters/mistresses or just looking for people to hook up and get roughed up by. I had a girl leave me because i was trying to take things easy and seriously and she couldn't keep it in her pants, so went and found a master on some social site to get beaten and porked by.
Didn't really hurt me as much as you'd think, but i often think what would compel someone to betray their conscience and themselves for pleasure like that.

>>25159790
all the satanist aesthetics and filthy-by-design shit really are NOT there for show i think

>>25159796
>how is the mental well being of society in the context of relationships and family at large have anything to do with politics lol mind ur own biz
ok nigger

Incel retards talking about BDSM is like hobos talking about what supercar they like to drive.

All deviant s x is BDSM

We know the consequences. The 60s revolution showed what happens when violating family morality

i can't post this on /pol/ because i can't discuss the politics of sexual liberation in this context?

fine i guess

idk about the current year /pol/poster's posting quality but i guess hearing from another board is fine, i just wanted to hear from a more moral-aligned background since all discussion of it comes from places where it's all lgbtqlnmop++ friendly and very very left leaning (i mean, that's by design, but still)

>>544210605
Masochists are NOT narccisists. They receive emotions, and process them internally not externally. If you yell at them they ask "what did I do to cause this? This is my fault." Them being more narccisitic, yelling when angry, and externalizing emotions, is good for them.

>>544210664
People shouldn't be pushed into the BDSM community unless they are people who naturally developed the emotional processing that results in sadism or masochism.
>Satan aesthetic
Mostly because all the kink people are anti-christian liberals. You never hear about husbands tying their wives up.
>what would compel someone to betray their conscience and themselves for pleasure like that.
Its literally a foundational emotional need. Masochists have empathy overload and you refusing to spank her shows you refuse to give her relief from caring about others. Its quite literally selfish for you to not.

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I like hurting other people!

>>25159817
>masochists are not narcissists
Not who you're talking to, but I have excruciatingly extensive experience with both BDSM and BPD. In my experience, masochists have the narcissistic impulse of severe self-hatred and shame. Narcs go about managing it by curating an obsessive narrative about how it's not true and they're actually great and people don't understand and need to be put in their relative place, but masos go the other way and 'rip the bandaid off' by inviting cathartic confirmation. The anxiety of uncertainty is actually less desirable than the reassurance that they're getting what they deserve, and can therefore either earn some kind of absolution/redemption or at least 'balance the books' on their inferiority by being hurt. The major feature is the fear of rejection: a maso that's been hurt but not yet abandoned has it confirmed to them that as bad as they believe they are, it's not bad enough to be a dealbreaker. So it's a form of reassurance.

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>>25159831
>masochists have the narcissistic impulse of severe self-hatred and shame
That is a REALLY good way to describe it.
>"balancing the books" with pain
Also 100% accurate. They feel the need to "earn" relief from their shame. Often with self harm.
>The major feature is the fear of rejection
Also 100% accurate. BPD women are afraid of vulnerability and abandonment. They will do anything to please. Then when you dont lead with your vulnerability to make them open up, they get mad and feel taken advantage of. Made picrel last night.

>>25159817>>25159817
>Its quite literally selfish for you to not.
i UNDERSTAND it but what about the selfishness of not wanting to wait until the other person is comfortable with it? I wouldn't have minded at all but if waiting a while until i'm comfortable in a relationship again is a deal breaker i question it a lot

which is why i don't mind that it happened that way but it's just not healthy, is it not?

Besides, should masochism and sadism be treated instead of making them worse? Not from not doing kinky shit outright but maybe not being the people you see on the porn threads even in this site that get straight up tortured or mutilated or worse, or have strangers involved and then fuck up your brain and heart over it

there has to be an objective limit but it seems like that's not even contemplated

>>25159831
this i can relate to, but i don't know how healthy it is. It can get very one-sided and break your self-esteem even more, and narcissists, if they are in the malignant spectrum of the word, can and will absolutely destroy you just for some supply and satisfaction until they're done with you

but i rarely hear anyone talking about this side of things, seriously at least. Stories from narcissist survivors are of that kind, and they are very saddening.

the other post i was not able to make.


but that other user who defends bdsm as some kind of good relationship building is exactly the kind of person i described as narcissistic, and ultimately materialist, and then, combatitive in a certain regard and keen on making themselves look better than even possible, ergo attention and validation seeking.

Bdsm is not some kind of philosophy,. its just adherence to character flaws, which as that user describes mostly occurs in damaged people or those who live below their actual psychological fulfilment, very much in line with the times we live in.

anyway, this whole thread is complete faggotry already.

>>25159853
For the masochist, not spanking her might as well be bad as withholding sex from you, or refusing to kiss until the 100th date.
>should masochism and sadism be treated instead of making them worse?
There is no "treatment." It is an emotional processing style that developed over their whole lives. Sadists found yelling in peoples faces keeps them safe. Masochists found internalizing everything and staying quiet keeps them safe.
>malignant narccisism
Sadist have higher than average empathy. A lot of the confusion comes from the fact masochists WANT to be abused by someone they like, and sadists WANT to abuse someone they like. Its the same if your GF wants you to "break in and rape her" as roleplay.

>>25159798
well it's usually just normalized by people who affirm it.

Mostly as a meatshield for other degeneracy like, religious abuse, faggotry or child abuse. Which creates a sort of downwards spiral, because the fulfilment is lacking and the complex of guilt and dependency to validate oneself has nothing to hold onto that makes sense.

Bro it's 2026 you should know this.

>>25159852
it seems like my experiences with the people into it are universal, and it resonates with me as well i think. I probably have a bit of both, but i don't know how good that is, literally.

>>25159880
>anyway, this whole thread is complete faggotry already.

do you know where we are dot jay pee gee

but yeah this discussion isn't really going anywhere, isn't it? I'll seek resources elsewhere maybe

>>25159883
right. well, i maintain that my necessity for stability before that went down did not trump her necessity to get fucked NOW AND IMMEDIATELY, but what do i know, right?

>>25159883
''sadists have higher than average empathy''

bro your whole theory is utter dogshit. please flush it down the toilet. a propensity to read and feel emotion, does not mean emotional attachment.

If you mean they have a straight up personality disorder, just say that, but dont take a partial aspect of something that does not characterize the thing, to put it into a good light. only retards to that.
if you are a pathological sadist, first and foremost you're a psychological oddity and mentally ill. it destroys as any such condition, your prospects for a normal and fulfilled life, especially in deep bonding or emotional depth, which means depth without baggage or attachment.

As i said, you already exhibit this vapid socialite sado maso understanding of deep psychology which gave birth to this materialistic and degenerate mess.
inverting obvious flaws into strengths for example
meaning something is organic rather than pathological search for a narcissistic fulfilment based on that weakness.

Nothing in a relationship is better than actually having overcome your flaws for someone else. It's like removing a layer of dry wall of paper between you and the other person, and a true bond. You dont need to observe or second order control or guess yourself because your relationship is organic. These inorganic and inauthentic descriptions and explanations and psychological categories cease to exist because you live inside a bond.

somethingg that you obviously didnt seem to goo through. which looks like narcissism. sorry chap.

>>25159883
yeah you know, i know you cant comprehend this because youre retarded, but at some point, the mother of my children would simply not insist on me ''breaking her in and raping her'' all the time as a roleplay. It just wouldnt happen.At some point something entirely unique and open would develop which is beyond words and such concepts. Else i wouldnt be able to even categorize it as a relationship.

What you describe is emotionally superficial in my opinion.

Of course you can have lots of i dont know, excitement or things that are a bit special or odd in the bedroom, but at some point you should and would drop the pretense that it is something that you need as a fullfilment more than an inherently fulfilling bond with someone that could go anywhere.


If you dont have that, then you live secluded in a place that has no meaning emotionally imo, and should try to work on yourself instead of seeking out a specific box called relationship that you can put this specific pretense scheme performance and label on..

I mean it should be obvious that if your partner needs you to display something pathologically that it's inherently robbing of your personal agency. to put it into ultra feminized retard terms.

>>25159916
Sadists and masochists have both inside them which is why they work together so well. Temporary role reversal (emotionally) is very good because it teaches sadists empathy and masochists to stand up for themselves.
>get fucked NOW AND IMMEDIATELY
She was spending all her empathy power on understanding you and had no relief. I'm not justifying her actions, just saying her mindset and reasoning.
>>25159929
Quit crying about mental illness and trying to pathologize everything as a disorder requiring treatment. S/M relationships are incredibly deep and fulfilling when done right.
>inverting obvious flaws into strengths for example
You can't fix "flaws" that are an EMOTIONAL PROCESSING STYLE that developed over years. The only "fix" is pairing them with a compliment so they can teach each other.
>>25159956
>the mother of my children would simply not insist on me ''breaking her in and raping her
Why not? You dont think its intimate and erotic she can trust you with her shameful desires that make her feel most fulfilled? If you dont like it dont date a masochist.

>>25159929
or rather emotional fulfilment, not attachment.

it's a but like listening to an autist describe how he HAS to sit backwards for half an hour on his car seat, wipe the steering wheel for 10 minutes, and simulate starting the car imaginatively for 10 minutes, and that that means properly driving a car, or makes autists better car drivers, even if they had to repeat the ritual every 20 kilometers.

Most autists would at some point recognize if they managed to conceptualize it, that the car itself does not need this ritual to drive and also does not limit it's possibility of going anywhere, similarily to how, emotional openness affection and a shared horizont are everything a relationship needs.

What you do tho, is telling people straight to their faces, wrongfully, that personality bonding is more proper (out of necessity?) if it depends on such a performative dependency on something pathological or an object more or less in general contrary to an arbitrary open interpersonal bond. Bonds which, lo and behold,are obviously heavily damaged in pathological narcissists and masochists alike, especially if they dont result in losing that dependence by gaining insight that is not just functional to fulfiling of base desires.

I mean if you've ever talked to someone who is sadistic IRL, these are incredibly dysfunctional people. Why would this ''cathart'' by having an object for it, when the pathology stays the same. In short, it does not.

>>25159981
>if you've ever talked to someone who is sadistic IRL, these are incredibly dysfunctional people.
I literally am, and am also highly empathetic(most of the time) and successful. Liking the fact a girl is a weirdo freak has no impact on my treatment of others. It makes me respect her more.

>>25159969
''shameful desires that make her feel most fulfilled''

Bro. xD

of course i can live with almost anything. I've been in relationships with incredibly damaged people. But facing it as a deficiency and damage and actually working towards healing that damage instead of just indulging in it, meaning also morally standing up to it, which you can do for example by having a family, or working towards something inherently good is the only way you can grow as a person, and become dependable.

I am for example for a death penalty for pedophiles. This will also disproportionally kill people who have been abused as children too.
But what you propose generally with a, less degenerate thing admittedly, is ''okay, so it messed them up to a degree where it becomes pathological, at some point you just cant do anything, so it's better to let people indulge in it.''

But the purpose of being empathic with someone is that if you have a strong personality it will allow for more nuance to exist within that person than something that you need to make dependend, or co dependend on something, that is a cope, a routine or whatnot. It's literally the fundament of psychological growthh. If you miss something like this in your life, then you miss something. obviously yes. So having ''the most shameful desire'' is not something inherently erotic to exploiut and also something you can just, take care of in a more well, ''spiritual'' or complete way.

Of course the pedophile thing is on a different topic, but your logic is the same.

If my wife had a pathological need to simulate me raping her all the time, it would absolutely horrific and disgusting, because at some point i expect her to also live inside a reality that needs her for more than the lowest denominator she can muster. of course.

But it's ok. I guess, NPC's live different lifes. It's just obviously funny, how much normalizing degeneracy is also part of your supposedly private enlightened psychological calculus.

>>25159995
yeah you're probably the bees knees bro. Like idk, totally the pillar of your community and object of everyone's admiration, and everyone else has nothing in order except for you, which is why your sadism is a super power.
Bro.

I am talking about people who cant build any affectionate bond without constantly engaging in deriding and demeaning behavour.

If you battery such people enough and they have an IQ above 80, you notice they essentially fall into two camps.

pathological psychopaths, who have no way to even feel any bigger emotional landscape, that would involve true responsibility, remorse or even agency, or emotional attachment, just a narcisstic substitute, based on superficial shit

For example, no therapist is ''suceessful'',yet people give them attention and see them as integral parts of their life, based entirely on the authority of their emotional involvement and agency.
theyre surrogates of the strength or emotional interaction. They're not ''successful'' like athletes are. the measurement is entirely separate. You being successful does not mean shit. because we are talking about emotions. Something which you evidently dont seem to understand You just say ''i have a deeper bond because of this, and i am popular'' because that self gratification, which depends on narcsissim has completely surplanted the thing that normal people have as emotional fulfilment that they dont need to display outwards for self worth. I mentioned earlier, that degrading public decency follows from that

the latter kinds of sadists i know are just people who are ultra traumatized, and will just completely break apart if you dont give them their few hoops to jump through, like pretending to be inferior to them, or that for example pretending to agree hating children pathologically and wishing them harm is a good/normal thing, because of some pseudo esoteric belief like idk marxism/satanism or something idk. thats the other kind of narcissist that i know.

>>25160105
other kind of sadist, not narcissist. sorry.

>>25160105
sorry this was very assuming. I am giga pissed.

I dont know if you have no authentic emotional bond.
I just am quite sure you do not really, due to being a narcissist obviously, and thinking your experiences are extraordinary, because of narcissism obviously.
And then building this whole functional theory of emotions around it. It's retarded generally.

>>25159969
of course you can fix flaws that are emotional processing styles. stop being a fucking retard, find religion the usual things.

Lobg story short:
One person's fetish is another person's NSFL..

>>25160020
If a husband and wife are into BDSM where is the degeneracy?
>If my wife had a pathological need to simulate me raping her all the time, it would absolutely horrific and disgusting, because at some point i expect her to also live inside a reality that needs her for more than the lowest denominator she can muster. of course.
Your wife would literally be fully normally functioning other than liking specific treatment in bed.
>>25160140
This, kek. Maybe he's slightly sadist but holding onto his own empathy too much to understand why a woman would want that treatment.

>>25160157
every well rounded being is inherently able to express a multitude of leanings, including a degree of pain bearing and humility and also sadism, yeah sure.

we are talking about sexual degeneracy tho, and pathological sadism. What annoyes me is that you want to simplify things to a degree of spiritual niggerdom tying it to a limited psychology, like youre trying to do now too.


its like those people comparing everything to their drug addiction.
to a degree, yeah conceptually a concert pianist also is addicted to playing the piano, but not like a meth addict living on the streets, or even living a normal life despite being a meth addict most of the time.

It remains a psychological deficit, if you pathologically can not leave it. of course.

if you need "kinks" then you are having way too much sex or masterbating too much. sex is like a drug that you can get a tolerance if you do to much. kinks become a thing because you have ruined your tolerance. you need a t break so that normal sex does the job again. this applies to men and women but mostly women. tldr:stop gooning.

>>25160157
i also know whores who have incest relationships with their parents. Obviously theyre psychologically completely broken. But we all can (and i am being sarcastic of course) that it's probably alright and not worrisome apart from it being the case, meaning for those people psychologically for example, or for their future psychological development or prospects of having familyy, as long as they dont procreate and it's consensual.

i mean. i know youre incapable of abstraction, because of your personality, but to a degree you could at least try to engage in the original conversation OP tried to have, and not just start with a retarded claim: ''Sado maso relationships are more fulfilling'' because they are more ''emotionally deep''

because that is quite obviously completely wrong.

It's also generally just tiresome how predictable talking to narcissists is.

>>25160157
i was under the impression we are talking about actual dysfunctionality.

>>25160203
By definition BDSM is an emotional dysfunction, but most can manage it within a normal relationship. The clubs and public degeneracy is what makes it worse.

>>25160236
ah okay i see.
I think you can actually heal emotional dysfunctions also of this kind, but you need to not indulge in them, and learn to grow beyond them.

i could be wrong but i dont think so. I mean i can be quite the narcissist myself and also have more sadistic than masochistic leanings, sure, because i am not a faggot mostly, but i also understand this in a somewhat detached fashion. I would never describe myself, as a ''narcissist'' or ''dom'' and someonne who gives me admiration as my ''sub'' or something.

That is degenerate. IMO
anyway nice talking to you i gtg.
See you next time, sado maso anon

>>25160345
mostly because i am not a faggot, not because i am not a faggot mostly,

oh and if you have deep emotional attachment to someone, go ahead marry them and make a few kids. good for you!!!!

don't think too much about it

>>25160345
OK great talk see ya later