>>62386196
> communism is when government spends tax dollars on industry
> capitalism is when govt doesn’t regulate industry
People are just retarded desu

>>62386196
the only people pretending farming is free-market capitalism happen to be farmers

and even they know it's not true but they don't want to say it out loud and lose their subsidies

>>62386236
They wouldn’t even lose their subsidies because its crony capitalism all the way up anyway.

>>62386196
It's not capitalist.

Governments though are going to protect large sectors because they don't want suddenly a large rise in unemployment and a loss of the industry overseas.

>>62386245
yep.

and farmers aren't the only industry getting subsidies. The federal government pays almost every business in the US to exist either directly or indirectly. The tax advantages of being a business are amazing, and most businesses get money directly from the gov as well.

It's in a government's interest to protect vital sectors like food and oil production. Just look at India and their oil shortage. You don't want to end up in that situation if you can help it.

>>62386196
Governments regulate an economic system but that doesn’t mean every action a government takes should be defined as part of the economic system they’re regulating.
Why conflate capitalism/socialism with shit the govt does to prevent mass starvation?
Is China capitalist because they offered American manufacturers cheap labor and building costs to build up their industrial base? No, because the govt still controlled the industry.
Farmers receiving tax dollars is not the same as govt controlling the farms. A farmer can still choose to squander their subsidy like a retard and fail.
Implying socialism IS tax distribution is like saying capitalism IS making a profit. The hyper focus on one component of an economic system as the defining factor is infuriating and retarded.
Cherry picking retards, i hate all of you

truth is a "free market" is just as utopian and unrealistic as a classless society

free markets aint free, the government is there and will continue to be there to rape the goyim

>>62386256
The government should be distributing taxes to the betterment of their citizens. Or, they shouldn’t be collecting taxes at all.
That’s not a capitalism vs communism concept. Neither systems are defined by where tax dollars go, it’s who controls what and the extent of the control.
As we’ve allowed crony capitalism and monopolies to take hold, the tax distributions make less sense and have less of an impact per dollar.
The fewer dollars in a citizens pocket, the fewer dollars supporting that citizens community. Communities decline, wealth concentrates into fewer places, and the govt is happy people are too broke to pay attention.

>>62386315
the way it works is everyone is now on the government dole. We all know it but none of us wants to talk about it because we think nobody else is getting our secret cash streams.

everyone trying to keep their own reliance on taxpayer dollars a secret, even though everyone is doing it one way or another.

>>62386329
It’s not a secret though, and it doesn’t mean the government controls the business by spending money at/on that business.
If anything, the DIB is incredibly capitalist despite the primary customer being the government. Competition is fierce as fuck, even an active purchasing vehicle.

>>62386586
when the government is both the largest employer and the largest consumer in the country,

AND the government sets rules both to work for it and to sell to it,

that is effectively government control of the business. Sure they're not making day to day decisions, but they've set some very strict rules for essentially every business in the nation.

>>62386196
we don't
the farm lobby is criticized by everyone.

if you take an AP US History course in HS, or Poli Sci in college, its held up as an example of how a disciplined small interest group can have outsized power in a democracy.

>>62386593
> technikalllyy
Govt effectively controls society, so is govt inherently communist? If you don’t see the private sector’s influence on those “strict” rules you’re willfully ignorant.
The largest employer being the DoD is actually really funny considering it’s also one of the biggest industries, so imagine the total DIB employment lol
Who gets to keep the profits though?
And who is the biggest private sector employer?
Walmart, who is acutely aware that if minimum wage is raised they can longer train their employees on applying for welfare to keep their competitive pricing.
To equate the way that govt has structured itself to the benefit of business as socialism is just reaching.
It’s blatant crony capitalism.

>>62386618
Honestly yeah, i only know a handful of farmers and they feel like it’s really to the benefit of the big boys anyway. Haven’t heard them do anything but bad mouth it, but i don’t know what they get lol
I don’t blame people for playing the game on the table desu

>>62386196
Nigger americans should once and for all understand the difference between socialism and communism.

>>62386196
Farming subsidies are retarded, but it's not communist or capitalist. It's just a way to prop up your own agricultural sector because it's incapable in competing with foreign agricultural imports and labor. This is the same reason tariffs exist. I haven't looked recently but there's a quota on imported sugar for example. After that quota is met, sugar is taxes/tariffed at 100%, which either creates an incentive for importers to shop for sugar at domestic producers (for a higher price), or they continue to import the sugar anyways and increase the price for the end consumers.

This is the natural evolution of globalized markets. The only reason the US thrived as a hegemonic anomaly and every normie retard (right or left) has historically ignorant fantasies of the 1950s, is because every industrialized country on Earth was destroyed during WW2 except the US. Including the fact that hundreds of thousands of American men died and millions more were wounded. Americans entered an age where there was zero industrial competition from outside the US, zero immigration, so less job competition, less domestic competition because hundreds of thousands of young men were killed, and the housing market was focused on building 950 sqft 2-bedrooms 1-bathroom 1-car garage homes, not the 2,000 sqft mini-mansions everyone considers a starter-home today.

>>62386226
In their most basic theories (no matter how retarded the theory on its face is):

Communism = A stateless, classless, moneyless society. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." It envisions a post-scarcity world where production is automated, labor becomes voluntary and fulfilling, and all societal wealth goes into a communal pool. And that society guarantees every individual access to the resources and care required to live a dignified life, regardless of how much they were able to contribute.

>>62386196
>>62386226
>>62387031

"Capitalism" aka voluntaryism/free-markets (Capitalism is basically a socialist/communist term) = Voluntaryism is a social and political philosophy that argues that all interactions and relationships between people should be based entirely on voluntary consent, without the use of force, fraud, or government coercion. Voluntaryists believe every individual has self-ownership and the right to control their own body and property, as long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others. The philosophy fundamentally rejects involuntary taxation, state monopolies, and government intervention. Voluntaryists believe that all services—including law, security, education, and infrastructure—should be provided by competing private entities, charities, or decentralized cooperatives rather than by the state.

A free market is an economic system where the prices, production, and distribution of goods and services are determined purely by the laws of supply and demand, rather than by central planning or government control. At the heart of the free market is the principle of voluntary exchange. Both a buyer and a seller engage in a transaction willingly because they both expect to benefit from it. A free market requires the recognition and protection of private property rights, meaning individuals and businesses have the authority to own, use, and trade their assets as they see fit.

>>62386196
>>62386226
>>62387031
>>62387042

Socialism is basically just Syndicalism. It wants massive labor unions and the workers effectively running/owning every business. It's just a stepping stone to Communism, but there seems to be an infinite number of stepping stones...

>>62386196
>How can Americans claim that providing subsidies to farmers is capitalist
We don't. That's just something you made up in your head.

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>>62386196
what is this low IQ fixation on black and white categorization? every economy on earth employs elements of communism, socialism, and capitalism.

Reminder that china constantly runs pysop against the farm lobby to create a strategic opening

>>62387736
It’s better for American politicians to lean heavily into team-based you-vs-me thinking

>>62386196
I am a farmer and the crop insurance subsidies piss me off. The whole idea of the guaranteed yield is fucked and supports bad farmers who use debt to get larger and then grow crappy crops to collect insurance.

As a farmer little else would make me happier than if our subsidies were taken away. The only thing that would make me happier is if Israel had their weapons taken away.

>>62387807
> strategic opening
For what, higher priced imports? They import a lot of our ag shit

>>62387846
It’d be cool if we stopped funding their healthcare and made them BUY our weapons

>>62387863
I looked up the government budgets of Israel and Iran and it looks like Israel has 3 times the budget of Iran. I guess Israel should be able to afford to destroy Iran by itself. However I would prefer it if we could wash our hands of Hormuz first otherwise it is just going to be closed forever because Israel and Iran will never stop fighting until one of them is gone. Getting our ethanol blend to 25% like Brazil would help but our oil lobby won't let that happen.

>>62386196

Attempting to pigeonhole everything in the world as "communist" or "capitalist" is a uniquely American form of retardation.

>>62387942
>>62387965
Agreed

But also we aren’t relying on middle eastern oil already. It’s been a sham the whole time, although it is fucking up our allies who DON’T drag us into wars
https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/how-much-oil-does-united-states-import-and-why