Can a math/economics nerd explain the financial impacts of this? Will it work or no?
Financial impact is it may work, possibly
>>62663902are they really pushing this in the mainstream now?America is finished
Yes state-run supply distribution works famously every time. That's why it's the natural order of things.
Isn't it basically the same concept as the military commissaries but for everyone? Those work pretty well, so well in fact that the same people constantly seething about muh socialism love their commissaries.The biggest risk factors are underfunding (as per usual) or scalpers buying cheap groceries on taxpayer dollars and reselling them for a profit (which definitely needs to be addressed for non-profit grocery stores, government-owned or not, to succeed.)If it works it will be bearish for NYC grocery stores and the pushback will be a lot stronger, and we might even see backlash against the Americans' beloved commissaries.
>>62663940yes, the military is another giant socialist blackhole
>>62663902define "work"
>>62664000Be a net benefit for the people of New York City
>>62663902>Will it lower pricesNot as much as allowing Walmarts into the city proper would.>Will it stop greedflationNo, grocery stores are already in perfect competition and largely can’t afford to cut prices anywhere.>Will it solve food desertsFood deserts don’t exist in major cities. >Will it help people eat healthierHealthy eating is already cheaper than fast food. People eat fast food because it’s fast and available not because it’s cheap.>Will I personally save moneyYou will pay for every cent you save out of your taxes, and then more on top of that in terms of the time you’ll spend standing in line for your rations of daily essentials.
>>62663940Are you fucking stupid
>>62664033>You will pay for every cent you save out of your taxesWhat if I'm poor and don't pay taxes?
>>62664026By that definition it will not work.
>>62664112Why come?
>>62663902> why do they keep stealing?> why haven't they replenished the store with more stuff to steal?> why is the store closed?all these questions and more await city-owned grocers.
>>62663902It's an additional revenue source for the city, but it wont make the food magically cheaper.
This has been tried so many times in the past and it ends in spectacular failure 100% of the time. Don't worry though, this time will be different or something
IMO this is retarded. government should PRODUCE AND DISTRIBUTE food to make it cheaper, not just replace some middlemen.>>62664309>This has been tried so many times in the pastif so, then you could have answered OPs question by providing actual examples, not just a statement.
>>62663902buddy we are 40Ts in debt on paper and interest is going to nigger fuck us in the ass and consume all our nominal GDP it doesnt fucking matter nothing matters pray for nukes and TKD
>>62664299There won't be revenue, they'll operate at a loss. Governments are one of the least effective means of distribution. Doubly so if they try to price control the groceries. They'll be always sold out of everything, and people will be lining up for food before the store even opens like it's Black Friday. Go to any price controlled grocery store in a late stage social country and you'll see the shelves always bare.
I think the one of the funniest things you'd see coming out of price controlled stores is a gray market emerging out of the city's stores. People will buy things not to eat, but to resell. They'll flip them on street corners and in bodegas at marked up prices on the city's dime.
>>62663940>>62663902I'd love state run dining facilities, military style
>>62663902NY is rich as fuck so they have years of money to burn before it collapses. Its just a PR stunt anyway. So it will work in that way. For the Mayor of course.
>>62663902No. It won't work.
>>62663940I should be able to buy as many NYC groceries as I want without an ID.Food is a human right and depriving me of it because I live all the way in Minnesota is literally fascism. Now put the tax payer funded steak and goyslop in the bag wagie
>>62663902Depending on your definition of work. Will they run? Yes, tax payer money isn't running dry. Will they be of benefit? I doubt it. See, either they can go with the ordinary prices of goods, making them useless compared to private stores. Or they can sell at lower prices, undercutting local businesses. It would also mean that customers buy at the expense of tax payers, possibly leading to a wasteful society. Finally there is a huge risk of this becoming a corruption hole for government workers to enrich themselves - wouldn't want a flagship project to die, would we?The only reason I could see this being good is if every single other "evil capitalist" business in the area was in a cartel, forcing customers to buy at unreasonable prices, but I doubt it. If it was true, why not break up such a cartel instead?
Oh. I get it.It’s the Great Depression 2.These are just bread lines, but made to look fancy and hip and politically modern and radical.It will work then, just as bread lines worked. You’ll see these expand everywhere. It’ll be wrapped as a radical, exciting, hip, trendy new political wave, rather than being in the middle of the second Great Depression.
Does city owned anything work? No lol
>>62664747Better to have them than not have them
>>62663902What do you mean by "work"? If they throw enough money at it, it can work as a give away program. It will never break even. It will never be as well-stocked or clean or convenient as private stores. It will be a constant source of controversy over what food to stock, corruption in procurement, arguments over DEI, security issues, long lines, etc. But something resembling food will get into the hands of some folks who probably can use it. But by and large it will suck.
>>62664046You pay inflation you goytard. Inflation is a tax on poors, idiots, liquidity buffers and foreign reserves.
>>62664311>government should PRODUCE AND DISTRIBUTE food YikesIf there is one real market in this world it's the food market. You're never ever ever going to get a better price than the price right now. That doesn't mean what youre getting is good, because american food is poisonous. But you're at least getting the best price.
State run stores are trying to fight the symptom of grocery costs being high. Why are groceries costly in NYC? The only stores that can run profits are bodegas with security cameras everywhere and paranoid immigrants behind the counter. They work because the cashier usually can see everything. You can't do that in a grocery store without hundreds of cameras. Every for profit grocery store that operates in the surrounding area of these "food deserts" invests a lot into security, urban grocery stores in nicer areas but not so nice they still get people coming in from the shitholes are full of cameras and often have security. If grocery stores didn't have to worry about rampant theft in NYC, they'd be more common.
>>62664359Nobody cares and that will never happen. Anyone making effort to sell groceries to poorfags for a $1 profit is basically homeless and irrelevant. They won't be able to buy anything in bulk there anyway. It's like ebay hustlers who deal in ancient computer parts, these morons actually spend energy for $30 per week. Like, dude, just cut your consumption by $30 and save yourself the 20 hours of work.Anyway ... >>62664680 and others are rightBut perhaps some are missing the point?I go online and see people ranting about how bad this is, yada yada. What they don't understand is that they are actually doing exactly what 'they' want, by bringing attention to it and publicizing opinions about it.You see, this is a political campaign, yes, paid for by tax dollars.Here is how this works. Right or left, 80-90% of a population is absolutely CLUELESS about economics/the economy. The only thing this shit does is galvanize commie leftards and poorfags. This is all just a way for 'them' to bring mr Mamdani into people's brains ... it's not about the thing itself at all.
>>62665069>here's how (...)>not x!!! y!!!!1Damn im writing like AI today
>>62665067Which is kind of funny because with food/agriculture itself we already kind of cracked the code. NEVER, EVER subsidize the demand side. DO NOT give people blank checks to buy the thing, if you want the thing to become cheaper and more available.INSTEAD, subsidize the SUPPLY. Subsidize farmers, farming, promote farming, promote free food trade. Cut as many regs and walls as possible without going too far. This does in fact make food cheaper and more freely available and the US has already done this to some extent for a while now to great effect. What fucked us up was the other side of the equation, subsidizing demand. This shot prices up.
>>62664344>They'll be always sold out of everythingThey'll always have basic essentials and fresh produce in stock, since their "usual clientele" only buy junk food and fast food, and won't even take nutritious food or anything that requires cooking for free, much less go out of their way to steal them. I guess they might just go in and wreck everything and smash it all for funsies all the same, so who knows.
>>62665082communism is like some kind of toxic mold that just never goes away there is always a new crop of assholes to fall for it
>>62666165they say u don't need to show id to shop there so i might take the train in and buy a bunch of shit on the nyc tax payers dime lol
>>62665082The whole original intent of the food stamp program was to support agricultural prices. That's why it is administered by the Department of Agriculture.
>>62664183The keyword was “net” it cannot be a net benefit because that implies accounting for all the factorsIt could be a gross benefit
>>62663902This would work with all white nordics who are conscientious, but not in a diverse , brown society. There has to be rations at some point. That is until AI robots are able to make infinite food and delivery
>>62664471This, Mamdani isn't thinking about the future like the federal administration and is just kicking the can down the road. If his successors course correct it might be fine, if not you may end up with a debt like San Francisco.
>>62664471dude are zoomers not aware of nyc's previous debt crisis and utter descent into shit? it took like five consecutive terms of republican mayors, 2 for giulliani and 3 for bloomberg, to turn it around. it can and will retvrn to the bad old days.
>>62665067Yeah, but can you imagine how racist it would be if you actually enforced laws and had to arrest a bunch of blacks and browns because they're stealing all the time?
>>62665043from what I've heard intermediaries make most of the money while retarded farmers get paid pennies by big and small resellers. it would make a lot of sense for governments to control the market by producing themselves.
>>62666538>governments>producing themselvesYeah I don't know, I think I'm probably done with this board. Reading what you fucking retarded imbeciles post is such a waste of time.
>>62666585found the lolbertardian victim of jewish brainwashingI'm sure institutions like DARPA, LBNL, LLNL, NASA, etc. produce nothing
>>62663934
>>62666594OK you have to be a trollNasa produces nothing and buys from contractors on a cost plus basis, like most government programs
>>62666646>conveniently ignores the history of NASA, as well as all the other orgs I mentionedlol
>>62666235So long the ABCD companies because they sell the input?
>>62663902it could work. i don't know why idiots think otherwise. i live in pennsylvania, where the state owns all liquor stores. the prices are reasonable and the choice of inventory is pretty good.
>>62667288So you are telling me i can get a 30% markup if i sell exclusive to the state? Based. Going to do that and become the next Louis Dreyfus.
>>62667363the prices are comparable to other states.
>>62667288The margins are not the same. Liquor stores already operate under a tax/regulation burden that the state store doesn't need to and can artificially compete. Grocery stores aren't like that and are already on thin margins.At any rate it's just another measure, like rent control, that fundamentally misunderstands the issues and since it isn't addressing the real ones it's just exacerbating the issue and confusion.
>>62667369Retail cattle opinion discarded.
>>62667370>Liquor stores already operate under a tax/regulation burden that the state store doesn't need to and can artificially competeyou're talking about business competition. i'm a consumer, not a would-be pakistani liquor store proprietor. all that matters to me is retail price.
>>62667387Believe it or not, consumers need businesses in order to buy things. If it all becomes state owned you get the USSR/Cuba, bread lines and permanent stagnation. Your example of a liquor store isn't valid because the state gets a free ~40% cost advantage by not being encumbered by tax/regulation overhead. It's patently evil to put the private sector under a yoke that you don't assign to the public side and then use that to eliminate them and create a monopoly.
>>62667387>i'm a consumerOf course you are and we know this because the quality of the product doesn't bother you at all. This is a good thing btw.
>>62667400>morals are more important than making a profitGo back.
>>62667400>patently evilagain, i'm a consumer. i don't care about the pressure this places on competing businesses.>>62667402how much do you make a year?
>>62667412I'm a consumer as well. I like quality, availability, and options, rather than being forced to exclusively shop from the grocery equivalent of the USPS. Retard
>>62667412>how much do you make a year?More. Because it's never enough.
>>62667423https://www.finewineandgoodspirits.com/product-request
>>62663902If you do not know why it isn't, then america is your superior.>nerdhe doesn't really want an answer.>Will it work?It could work why not.
>>62663902grocery stores are already a low margin business. government intervention won't fix anything. new york city is the one situation where something like this might work because the real estate is to expensive to support traditional low cost grocery chains.
>>62663902It CAN work if niggers don't loot it is the first thing.Second is finding people willing to staff and stock it, and/or automation equipment to do this.Third is finding the stock, especially produce, dairy products and meat that isn't trash. Also you need trained butchers and meat inspectors if you want to have a meat section, cause black people love them their cookouts and Muslims their halal meats.We still haven't gone through getting things like freezers, fridges, racks and checkout lanes.Ultimately the real question is how much tax money is the city government willing to spend to subsidize operations, and/or buy products from muh urban farms kek.
>>62667620>It CAN workThere are grocery stores in New York City that work.What about them being city owned?
Sure it will work, it'll just cost everyone 10x as much to operate and stock.
>>62667911>goelm regurgitating ronald reaganstein myths
>>62667288Unless New York City wants a monopoly on grocery stores like PA does on liquor I don't see how it would work. Margins on grocery stores are already razor thin, which means in a competitive market the only way for the NY run ones to be noticeably cheaper will be to either:1. Pay under market rate for labor (lmao)2. Reduce shrink rates by charging all thieves as enemies of the state to completely discourage shoplifting from govt stores (double lmao)3. Have producers sell to the govt below market rate (triple lmao)4. Have the tax payer subsidize themYou know it's going to be option 4. And it'll be even funnier when they start putting caps on buying subsidized goods when the majority just end up flipping the cheap subsidized shit to local bodegas or just selling them on Facebook marketplace.
>>62666594Maybe you're right, maybe the government should just produce everything. And then they'd have no fucking reason to TAX me anymore.
>>62663940>Commissaries "work" so let's make one and give infinity Africans access to it
>>62663902It’s not going to happen because much of this guys voter base are immigrant “bodega” owners of similar swarthy inbred origin
>>62667900The entire point is to open a grocery store that won’t close down because niggers loot everyday, the shrinkage will be covered by tax payers. it’s all based on “muh food desert” - but once again this Pakistani won’t undercut his brothers lucrative bodega operations which might as well be run by the state considering they make all their money in food stamps and diversity grants.
>>62663902Some people are really nice at first while they decide if you'd be a good mark. They eat your food, they drink your wine and then they betray you.
>>62663902It will be a major success (at driving normal grocery stores out of business and making everyone completely dependant on the govt just to eat)
>>62664747good then we'll get a New Deal 2 and finally have a middle class again instead of retarded centibillionaires
>>62666626It's a independent contract dumb nigger. Any other company will step in if required. Same goes with the Class 6, gas stations and the likes.
>>626679564 already happens with non perishables. 4 also happened during covid for supply shocks in Italy notably it was pasta that disappeared entirely off the shelves.
>>62663940Is this post what actual mental/intellectual deficiency looks like?
>>62665069>for a $1 profitAre you like a child? Like below 16 years old? Do you think a $1 profit on a grocery item is bad? You are talking about a margin of 10-20% on a common article.In your pea brain, why wouldn't that make it worthwhile for large scale operations?
Thank God we have California and New York to keep trying and failing at implementing socialist/communistic measures so the rest of us can learn from their example and not do the same thing
Nigga I already arbitrage. I use my EBT to sell drinks and resell them on the corner ice cold.
>>62663902It will work for approximately 2 years. Everyone will pat themselves on the back (socialist works hooray!). And then it will slide into mismanagement when no one is paying attention.
>>62663934You joke, but the temple/palace was in charge of the kingdom's economy for thousands of years. It's more natural than a merchantocracy
>>62674327That's assuming the king has the authority to correct things if his administrators are corrupt/incompetent. Nowadays it would be an endless grift of "not my fault" bureaucracy which is a good thing™ if ebul red team is in power, and its very dangerous for our democracy if blu team is in power.In short: we have to start by publicly humiliating corrupt officials/businesses with career ending fines/imprisonment, which can't happen until the republic is officially over.
>>62674619This is the central, central issue with everything right now. There is no leader, no head to hold everything accountable and fix things piecemeal. It's endless unaccountable bureaucrats and whoever they choose as their sycophant puppet.Venice lasted for 1,000 years because it had a Doge. We need a Doge.
>>62663902He has the smile of a murderer
>>62663902I'm trying to understand why these are needed. Isn't EBT and food banks already covering this>
