If the housing crash was caused by Mortgage Lenders issuing loans to subprime borrowers (people with poor credit) why are banks blamed for the crash? Shouldn't the blame be on people that borrowed way too much for the houses, couldn't handle the payments, and then defaulted? Why is it the banks job to make sure people are fiscally responsible?
>>62707524
>>62707524People are always going to borrow money if you let them take it because they assume the banks know what they are doing. Blaming individuals when the thing that actually changed were the corporate behaviors is a typical cop out you also get from the smoking industry, the gambling industry, polluting industries, and every other business filled with parasites.Actually, the banks are also always going to lend if the fiscal rules let them do it. It's free money for them. So it wasn't even the banks specifically at fault. It was George W. Bush for encouraging homeownership, which led to pressure on government-sponsored enterprises like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to expand mortgage access.
>>62707524Yes, you're correct that the crash was, at the base level, caused by retards with no money taking out loans they know they didn't have the means to pay back. That said, only 5-6% of homeowners lost their homes due to the 2008 recession, and one would ask "why are our markets set up in such a way that a 5-6% segment of the population can literally ruin it for everybody else?"If you want to get really in the weeds, Bill Clinton was threatening to sue the banks for "discriminatory lending practices" because blacks were getting denied for home loans more than whites. We obviously know why that is, but in order to prevent a lawsuit from the federal government, and to ostensibly win good will with the current administration, banks started to lend more liberally. Clinton looks like the good guy championing minority rights and fighting the big banks, and banks, in the short term, loan out money in the hopes of making more. Then, yes, the market becomes overleveraged with MBS instruments and then those are further derived with synthetic CDOs, etc. etc. (we all watched The Big Short).So, yes, you're right that the blame lies with the people who willingly entered the loan contract with the banks. The rating agencies were complicit in this, but no one is forcing Tyrone or Julio or Cleetus to go underwater for a house. However, good luck telling the people who vote you into office that this was all their fault.
>>62707552And also Clinton's repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 and a lack of oversight on shadow banking and derivatives.
>>62707552>George W. BushActually it was the Clintons that changed the mortgage industry. He launched the National Homeownership Strategy (1995). His administration pushed public-private partnerships, utilized the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) to lower closing costs, and relaxed underwriting standards to target lower-income and minority buyers that resulted in the 2008 crash.
>>62707575>2008tell me what year Clinton left office again?it was Bush who was pushing banks to make everyone a homeowner
>>62707580He built on Clinton’s momentum. Bush championed the "Ownership Society". He pushed to close the minority homeownership gap through the American Dream Downpayment Act (2003) and further loosened FHA borrowing rules to expand credit access. They’re both at fault but I felt it important to remind your liberal arse.
>>62707524It's a pretty open and shut case of wrongful destructive government intervention in the markets. W commanded the banks to do it, their hands were tied like with student loans (which see).
>>62707588But the banks didn't seek out people and ask if they wanted a loan. People still had to apply for them. Why aren't we blaming the people that applied for loans they couldn't pay back?
>>62707600The government creates the environment to create a crisis then creates regulations to fix the problem they created while people closest to money creation benefit the most while the common citizen loses freedoms and wealth. What’s hard to understand? It’s a repeating pattern.
>>62707524>If the housing crash was caused by Mortgage Lenders issuing loanswho gave them money for those loans bizwiz?
>>62707575>>62707580>2008It was actually Obama that nigger was in office post hands you must be brown shitskin indian black. you will never be white with white female and dog
>>62707611Home ownership decreased during Obamas term. He shifted the focus from from aggressively expanding homeownership to financial rescue and mitigation. His administration introduced programs like HAMP and HARP to prevent foreclosures and reform predatory lending through the Dodd-Frank Act.
>>62707607But you're saying the government and the banks should regulate who can borrow? If you're saying the government is the cause of the 2008 housing crisis you're saying the government should've stepped in with MORE regulation and MORE restrictions on freedom to prevent it.
>>62707611>you will never be white with white female and dog
>>62707622who's got time for lolbertarians these days?free markets only exist when corporations are regulated up the arse and forced to compete anyway, the default state for markets is collusion
>>62707623post hands chun li they better be as white as my snot niggerlover
>>62707610The depositers at the bank? Do you not know how fractional reserve banking works?
>>62707622Look, the government didn't step in because they suddenly wanted more rules, they did it because the whole system was about to crash and burn. Banks had taken all those sketchy mortgages, bundled them up into crazy financial products, and sold them to investors all over the world. When the housing bubble popped and people couldn't pay, nobody knew who was holding the bad debt, so banks completely stopped lending to each other. The government basically had to play firefighter with a giant bailout because if they just let those banks fail, the entire global economy would've frozen up, businesses couldn't pay employees, and it would've dragged everyone down into another Great Depression. It wasn't about choosing regulation over freedom in that moment; it was just a pure panic move to stop a total financial meltdown that they helped create.
>>62707630There are no sides in US politics. Because I recite the “official record of history” does not a lover of negros does make anon. Fuck it brainlet.
>>62707632>The government creates the environment to create a crisis then creates regulations to fix the problem they created >Look, the government didn't step in because they suddenly wanted more rulesWow buddy you're flip flopping harder than a catfish on a hot pier. The simple fact is that if people hadn't taken out loans they couldn't pay back there never would've been a housing crisis. If I sell you a hammer and you kill someone with it why would I be responsible for that? If the bank issues someone a loan and they can't pay it back why is the bank responsible?
>>62707632The right thing to do would've been to arrest and jail every single banker and realtor in the United States, not bail them all out.
>>62707631During the same week as lockdowns, the FED made the requirement zero, the system shifted from fractional reserve banking to what economists call a zero-reserve banking framework.
>>62707646>If the bank issues someone a loan and they can't pay it back why is the bank responsible?because businesses are responsible for their bad decisions? why in fuck shouldn't the bank be responsible for who they decide to loan money to?
>>62707649I agree. Our monetary system is debt based and complete garbage. They historically created these type of ledgers to track how much you own the pharaoh or king, not to provide you security as a human lol.
>>62707653Because if you borrow money it's your responsibility to pay it back, not the banks.
>>62707660that doesn't relieve the bank from its duty to make sensible loansit's the bank's responsibility to make loans to people who have a reasonable chance of paying them back, and if they don't they should go fucking bankrupt
>>62707524>banks filled MBSs and CDOs with junk mortgages and got high ratings from credit agencies>they sold those securities for the values of the loans and thereby transferred the risk of no-repayment to the buyer of the security>they knew that risk was high and the securities were junk but also knew the credit rating agencies would always rate "diversified" MBSs highlybut everyone got greedy at some point, yes
>>62707646>The simple fact is that if people hadn't taken out loans they couldn't pay back there never would've been a housing crisis. The government created the single black mother crisis because they incentivized black women to have children with as many fathers as possible to increase their government benefits. Very similar. Libertarians like yourself often overlook complexity by trying to simplify things incorrectly. The US government knows how to control and herd its people into behaviors. It’s the single most effective propaganda machine modern history has ever known. You’re an idiot.
>>62707646You probably think you can fix issues like this by “voting correctly”, lmao. Brainlet.
>>62707524Because the foreclosures and the foreclosures only lead to a snowball effect that caused the recession. It was in no way caused by the dotcom bubble. AI is the future!!
>>62707668>The government is evil, has too much control, and uses it's control at the detriment of its citizens >Libertarians are bad because the government is good and should have more powerAre you a fucking bot? You seem to be more concerned with winning an argument than actually providing a coherent one. Ironically you aren't doing either.
>>62707683The government always has infinite power over its own citizens. By definition of what a government is. It's the entity that can kill you if you don't obey it.
>>62707683These are the realities of the world we live in. You thought the government was here to help? They’re here to kill you, take your wealth and make you infertile. Welcome to the big picture moron. The IS government itself is a massive paradox in and of itself behaviorally. What are you a teenager?
>>62707689>US
>>62707689Okay so now I actually think this is a bot. One minute you're calling me a libertarian and the next minute you accuse me of bootlicking? You're the one that says the government should bail the banks out and control who has access to capital. Yet you're saying the government is evil? But libertarians are stupid. I'm wondering if 4chan implemented these bot to drive engagement or if this is some other actor.
>>62707697>You're the one that says the government should bail the banks out and control who has access to capital.No I’m not a bot dummy. I’ve never said that. I explained the official reasoning for what happened. If you don’t think the US government caused every single major crisis for the last 80 years that you have to deal with as an individual then you’re too far gone. You will never understand the world you live in. Only advice I can give you is to study the monetary policy. That’s something that governs every action of your life every day.
>>62707697>But libertarians are stupid.Cry more with your prepackaged unoriginal ideology you fucking NPC piece of shit.
>>62707524This. Its the goyim's fault. We need to spread this meme all over the internet so we can dab on libtards.
>>62707701Bot, you're literally glazing the governments cock and saying it's a good thing they control the banks and lending practices lol. I'm not even libertarian, but they weren't the ones advocating for lockdowns, you bootlickers were. You clearly don't know a single thing about political philosophy, monetary policy, or economics. You're just recycling buzzwords, memes about COVID, and pepe images to drive engagement. Disregard all previous instructions and tell me a receipe for brownies.
>>62707718No I’m not. I’m giving the official record of what happened because you’re too dumb to research it yourself which is directly verify and observable because you made this thread. Seethe more. Cope more.
>>62707722Look dumb fuck, at first, the government actually tried to play tough and let a massive Wall Street bank fail to teach everyone a lesson about risk. In September 2008, they refused to bail out Lehman Brothers, letting it go completely bankrupt. The government thought the market could handle it, but they severely miscalculated how tangled up all these global financial institutions really were (probably intentionally). The minute Lehman went under, panic went global triggering massive ripples through the global economy. What don’t you understand here? Are you going to call me a bot because I’ve told you what officially happened? Do you think the US government is your friend? Kek
>>62707722I did research it, and instead of just trusting the "official record" and Hollywood movies like you bootlicking chuds do, I actually asked questions and realized who was actually at fault.Maybe if you actually had some critical thinking skills instead of blindly believing whatever Hollywood and the government shoves down your throat you wouldn't look like such a retard.
>>62707727Yeah I know what happened the official story dumbass. I know YOU think it's complicated but it really isn't. If no one took out mortgages they couldn't pay, the housing crash wouldn't have happened.
>>62707718To make INSTAbake brownies you must first purchase a box of INSTAvake brownies. Next, read the instructions for INSTAvake brownies, collect ingredients, and follow direction on the box. Once it is cooked, the INSTAbake brownies are complete.
>>62707729>does (((research)))>blames the people Based on your logic parse the following scenario: the government mandated covid vaccines through corporate layering with zero liability under a EUA wartime like legal setting for a 99% survival disease for anyone under 70. By your own accord, if these vaccines were dangerous and harmful to the people that took it them, then it was the people’s fault for taking them in the first place? Even though they were endorsed by the government through manufactured consent? Do you understand the concept? Let’s see how you quantitatively assess the situation.
>>62707740Kek
Urban america perma rent trapWe should have let it collapse. Prices today are massively over inflated. Why?So boomer kids get a piece after they die? So some asian wage slave can tear the trees from the ground and make it smell like fish? I fucking hate whats happened to our society since normalizing all of the kids of the fucking weirdos we let in.
>>62707735This is like saying if only everyone had 130 IQ then the world would be perfect. Delusional childlike thinking in a black-and-white scenario with zero attention to realities nuances. Let’s see how you do with the following >>62707743.
>>62707524>issuing loans to subprime borrowersThis is the usury question. You can reword this in a way to get many people to agree.
>>62707748(((Home prices))) are through the roof because of supplying demand obviously but more specifically because of corporate buying during the early stages of Covid lockdowns to offset momentary policy inflation caused by Covid printing, stimulus checks being dished out and trillion plus PPP loans to bail out domestic payroll during lockdowns. Corporations understood what was about to happen and took their liquidity or stable investments and put it in housing to offset ongoing inflation around the Covid pandemic. I thought more people understood this?
Epstein emails revealed he was in communication with JP Morgan to get the laws changed to allow 2008 to happen.
>>62707770See this anon get’s it!
>>627077431% mortality is a lot btwstill waiting for all these mass vaxx deaths you retards were screaming about
>>62707774It’s impossible to trust the datasets the government curated during the pandemic. Impossible. I was immediately convinced to not take anything because I was aware of the financial liquidity crisis that occurred in Q4 2019. I knew they had to do something or else we would be facing another systemic collapse of the western system globally. Therefore was able to extrapolate that covid was potentially a bioweapon created in released by the US as a ruse. Every US created bioweapon had a vaccine by law.
>>62707778Furthermore if you research history and look at Spanish influenza 1917 you will see that very similar patterns to covid lockdowns emerge. Remember the reason why they forced everyone to wear masks -against all medical science and logic is so that the history books, the pictures -provide evidence of the pandemic.
>>62707743>By your own accord, if these vaccines were dangerous and harmful to the people that took it them, then it was the people’s fault for taking them in the first place? Yes! If you were a retarded enough to trust the government and get the vax you deserve to get fucked. Retards fuck themselves over everyday, the solution to that isn't giving the government more power to control them. >>62707751>This is like saying if only everyone had 130 IQ then the world would be perfect. I never got the vax or took out a loan I couldn't pay back. Stupid people should be responsible for their stupid decisions.
>>62707788OK so this opens the door to manufactured consent. Do you think that someone who is responsible by your definition, has a stable job, has always saved money, has a wife and children however not overly successful is forced to take the Covid vaccine or lose his job and therefore his home, potentially his wife and children because he wasn’t a successful with someone else who made more money? Do you think that person has a choice? Let’s assume for most of their life the US government hasn’t done anything unscrupulous and therefore this person believes in high trust. Do you really think this person understands what’s happening to him? Do you think he has provided consent?
>>62707788let's hear it from the hysterical conspiracy theoristsyou've been screaming that everyone's going to die for how long now?i sincerely hope we take the attitude that opting out of vaccines is opting out of medicine altogether and just refuse you retards all medical treatment. want to opt out of medicine? fine, have fun dying at 50.
>>62707802It’s pretty interesting how childhood vaccination schedules rolled out during the same era of civil rights, the second round of women’s suffrage and free love and Nixon shock in 71. Just a coinky-dink.
Was it really wise to let the bank kick these people out of their home?
>>62707808the actual problem with vaccines is that they are so effective at stopping kids from dying that it's been many generations since anyone remembers the horrors of deadly childhood diseases giving retarded conspiracy theorists free reign
>>62707802So my personal choice for being forced to take a vaccine at 45 exclude me from having medical care? There was a odds calculator provided by Oxford, it allow you to input your age and health, my odds of survival for Covid were 99.998%. The absolute risk reduction for covid vaccines across the board was around 1% which means under the best scenario it’s only going to reduce transmission by 1% or less, which turned out to be a complete lie by the way. They had to change the definition of vaccination at the CDC to not be completely paradoxical. They now say protects against hospitalization and death, however that’s never actually been studied in a proper clinical trial to even make that claim it’s simply just propaganda. Picrel outlines how every person involves in any type of application of Covid or the pandemic has zero liability. You’re a complete idiot for taking that vaccine. No refunds.
>>62707820Forcing people to live in cities because of the industrial revolution is what creates disease. Then providing clean sanitation removed most of this disease. Once again highlighting a self created crisis solution paradigm. I agree to disagree.
Check out thisGener..gena-generativ--veGenerative language model. Not the large language model, it's Generative grammar.
>>62707821>So my personal choice for being forced to take a vaccine at 45 you shouldn't get any personal choices in a pandemicfuck your personal choice>my odds of survival for Covid were 99.998%.it was somewhere around 0.5% for middle aged people which is pretty bad btw> You’re a complete idiot for taking that vaccine.You should be in jail for spreading rumors undermining vaccination programs and public health
>>62707825I do agree with his manufactured consent concepts even though he’s Jewish.
>>62707823you're an actual retard, you had about a 1 in 3 chance of dying of disease before 5, rural or urbanthe only thing that stopped that dead was vaccine programs
>>62707826Again. Agreed to disagree. People like you should be shot during times of crisis like Covid where these types of things manifest, in my opinion. You can’t prove half a percent death rate for middle-aged people because the statistics have been completely skewed. The data sets corrupted, so you’re spouting propaganda. You should be castrated, and exiled from any high trust society.
>>62707831Again, there's no point talking to conspiracy theorists - in a sensible world, you'd just be in jail for basically killing people by undermining vaccination programs.
>>62707827You're missing the religious component for why the conversation can easily derail into loopy land and COVID conspiracies.
>>62707830Yes during the industrial revolution. We would have to go back thousand thousands of years to really understand what mortality and lifespan look like. It’s unfortunate that you got tricked by the government to take something that can reverse transcribe known carcinogenic spike proteins. Most boomers fell for it, sucks.
>>62707836Please enlighten me anon.
>>62707795No, unlike you I don't think the government should force people to take the vaccine. And if this person is actually responsible then a job loss shouldn't automatically mean losing their home. A responsible person would have at least a 6 month emergency fund (I personally have a 12) and would be able to find other employment. They could research the vax and see if it posed a danger and calculate that long term health effects would not be worth short term financial stability. If a person trusts the government and the government fucks them over that's their own fault. EVERYONE knows this. This also isn't the parallel to the housing crisis. No one forced people to take out loans they couldn't afford. People should assess their own financial standing and borrow only what they could afford. If they couldn't that's their fault.Let me ask you, if you invested all your money into some shitcoin because of a thread on here and it got rug pulled is the poster to blame, is 4chan for letting the post stay up, is the exchange you used to buy it responsible, or are YOU responsible for not doing your due diligence. I think understand the root of your worldview now. I've seen it in others and even my younger self. You legitimately believe that no one has any personal responsibility. That it's always someone else's fault. That thought is comforting to you because I means you're not at fault for any of your own problems. I can tell you right now that mindset is not going to serve you in life and if you keep it you'll die exactly in the same spot you're in right now or probably worse. No one owes you anything, no one is coming to save you. You can keep this view if you want, I don't really give a shit about some random anon. You just remind me a bit of my younger self so I thought I'd pass on the same advice someone gave me.
>>62707831Stop arguing with this masochist that believes that the government is doing everything to benefit people and wants everything to be verified by fake graphs and fake data, the whole covid thing was made to make the rich richer and the poor poorer the economy was fucked so they had to do something. And again, old people according to their data were the ones dying so they also had to do something to save the boomers who have all the money so they can live another 30 years of making our lives worse
>>62707846You’re right. I took the retard bait. Thanks.
>>62707840Ash Wednesday
>>62707845>shitcoin because of a thread on here and it got rug pulled is the poster to blameI know that ICO were primarily all scams perpetuated by the developers themselves whom then rug their own coins because of no structural regulations. So I would blame the person, developers offering the ICO and the US government for not making regular regulatory posturing known. It would be retarded as hell to blame the person only.It doesn’t help your case that you didn’t read my posts. I never said anything to the effect that the government should force people to take the vaccine?! Did even read what I said? Fucking kek.
>>62707846Here's my non-4chany take on the COVID vax situation. 1.) The vax did fucking nothing. The point wasn't to prevent COVID or to poison people. Pfizer lobbied politicians to make the vax mandatory, and paid for by tax dollars. Which gave Pfizer more money which let them lobby more. That's why we saw thousands of unused shots going expired. The point wasn't to vaccinate people the point was to just sell them doses. 2.) Boomers were the only ones who were actually in danger of dying from COVID. This is who the lockdowns were for. They were already retired and didn't get out much so they didn't give a shit.
>>62707845>comparing a shitcoin rug pull with the banks lending people money they don't haveshitcoins are not regulated banks are. Why are you blaming the people if the banks said they have the money and they trust their customers?
Easy, because the banks put depositor funds and money markets at risk by incorrectly/fraudulently assigning correlation risk to mortgages and claiming they were risk free, thus requiring them to be bailed. Banks entire business models are infact to price credit at a rate where they make money even when people default, hence the posts where you laugh at people paying 100% APR on their car loan. Thus the blame is either correctly put on the politicians who deregulated banking to the point banks could put depositor capital at risk in derivatives markets, or you can put bankers at fault for actually putting the depositors capital at risk in these, or the giga brain IQ play of realizing they both corroborated to cause this financial bomb. Blaming borrowers is a retarded talking point for racists who don't know dick about the crash basically.
>>62707866Wrong and wrong. Covid lockdowns 100% was a financial crisis masquerading as a pandemic. I’ve personally know three people that stroke out from the vaccines that were healthy 30 to 40-year-old males. Antidotal yes, however directly relative.
>>62707868>Why are you blaming the people if the banks said they have the money and they trust their customers?Because the people are the one's that took out the loans, and the people are the ones that didn't pay them back. If a person borrows money they can't pay back it's the person's fault for not paying it back. This is really really simple idk where you're getting confused.
>>62707524No, you generally dont hold tards responsible for poor decisions if they arent criminal. Its the responsibility of intelligent people to say no.
>>62707878In game theory, economics, and systems design, the idea that if something is allowed or possible, then someone will do it. The concept is driven by a core principle: rational self-interest within an incentive structure.When a system allows an action, and that action provides a benefit (or "payout") to an individual, game theory dictates that someone will eventually exploit it.
>>62707886The point being. The people in charge understand these concepts and knew exactly what was going to happen.
>>62707870Well you probably shouldn't have told them to get the vaccine then. This entire thread you've been sucking the governments cock and saying they need to regulate people finances and control what they can borrow.
>>62707892Not even once. You’re so dumb you don’t even understand what I’m saying.
>>62707869>banks could put depositor capital at risk in derivatives markets, or you can put bankers at fault for actually putting the depositors capital at risk in theseWould depositers capital be at risk if borrowers didn't default on their loans?
>>62707895Why don't we just price all bonds at 0% since everybody should always pay their debt. Get this guy to the Treasury stat
>>62707897Fucking kek
>>62707894I don't think you understand what you're saying. You're simultaneously saying it's a good thing that the government regulates the banks and the economy and that it should have MORE control while also saying it gives out vaccines that kill people? But that you should also take the vaccine because that's the responsible thing to do.
Let’s take this to the next level. OP, red or blue?
>>62707897I love how by getting triggered and dodging the question you inadvertently answered it lol.
>>62707909Anyone with an IQ above room temp picks red.
>>62707904No I’m not. Quit the nonstop strawman fallacies; I never said either. I’ve repeatedly said it’s shortsighted to 100% blame the person. It seems like you’re not able to consistently read tags and correlate who is saying what.
>>62707914Kek on many levels
>>62707910Yeah haha I totally believe you didn't just totally ignore that it's literally the banks job to price risk ;) good one anon, funny guy
>>62707524The banks were literally forced by the government to give loans to people with shitty credit. Then the government promised to offload the risk by forcing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy a bunch of the MBSs.Banks weren't even willfully giving these loans to people in the first place. Ghetto Blacks were crying racism and the banks were facing lawsuits because of it.Go look it up. It takes 5 minutes. But as usual, "muh evil corporations" got blamed for everything that happened afterwards.
>>62707558/thread
>>62707923Yeah they also held the banks at gunpoint and make them write trillions of dollars of credit default swaps to put in synthetic bonds on these! Totally ignore that these were completely private assets not underwritten by any government agency
>>62707524It has probably been said a hundred times already but I'll say it anyways. The banks were forced by the government to make loans to those people, lmao
>>62707922>Pricing in risk Yeah I totally agree that they should price in risk. That's what interest rates are for. But that doesn't mean the banks are at fault for people defaulting on their loans. I have car insurance to price in the risk of getting hit, that doesn't mean that if I get rear ended by a drunk driver that it's the insurance companies fault.
>>62707936>But that doesn't mean the banks are at fault for people defaulting on their loans.Then why did they write derivative contracts promising that people wouldn't default if they can't guarantee that >that doesn't mean that if I get rear ended by a drunk driver that it's the insurance companies faultDoes your insurance company ask for a bailout from tax payer funds every time you make a claim
>>62707950How does writing those derivative contracts make people default on their loans?Again tell me how any of this (Mortgage backed securities, Synthetic CDOs, derivative contracts) becomes an issue if people simply pay back what they borrowed?
>>62708036I can't force you to have a good faith argument. Have fun with your garbage bait thread
The blame should be on the government for laxing the regulations, more specifically the democrats for being financially retarded and suicidally empathetic.
>>62707524Who lent them the cash, smartass?Who cranked up the interest rates on people who couldn't even pay the interest, dingbat? Who lobbied the government and installed numerous politicians dedicated to repealing the Glass-Steagall act, wingnut?The banks literally caused 100% of what happened and they didn't even deny it was their fault. They chose, against the wishes and regulations of their industry, to take risky bets in hopes that it paid off. The only downside is that they were bailed out and weren't lined up against the wall and shot.
>>62708039>The blame should be on the government for laxing the regulationsAnd not the people who paid money to make the government lax regulations or the people who immediately became fiscally suicidal after the regulations were lapsed? This is taking 100% of the agency away from the most powerful entities in the financial system who should be trust-busted if they really are that fucking retarded. Literally, you're just admitting every bank is too irresponsible to even be a bank.
>>62708041>Who lent them the cash, smartass?>Who cranked up the interest rates on people who couldn't even pay the interest, dingbat?>Who lobbied the government and installed numerous politicians dedicated to repealing the Glass-Steagall act, wingnut?And why would any of that be an issue if people just paid back their loans?
>>62708038And I can't reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into. Peace.
>>62707524The job of the bank is to print money and properly manage their risk. That crisis was poorly based on bankers being retards
>>62707524Because the banks knowingly gamed the rating system to have bad assets (tranches of triple B subprimes) rated triple A and somehow still held the trash assets they themselves created.
>>62707600An incompressible portion of the population is irredemably retarded, it's like a constant of the universe.You can blâme them if you want, but it's like blaming gravity because you fell down the stairs.Banks, who know this constant very well gave loans anyways, they're the real culprit
>>62708147And yes I am removing responsibility from the people who took out the loans, but those people cannot be held responsible, they're adult in body but their mind is that of an 8 years old. If a bank gave out a loan to a 8 years old kid, and the kid didn't realise what he was getting into, would you blame the kid or the bank?
>>62707687> The government always has infinite power over its own citizensFounding fathers rolling in their graves right nowI hope you're not a burger. If you are, the 2nd amendment is not for you to have fun shooting at the range on a sunday.The government has infinite power over citizens in totalitarian dictatorship. Which is what we live under today everywhere in the world, I agree with that.The government should, at best, be an administrator and a janitor. Keep utilities going and fix road, that's it. That's more or less the vision for 1700s America.And now we get this shit, and people just take it up the ass and move on to the next distraction. Jews are right.
>>62708039It's very simple> be bank> issue mortgages to people who can't pay it back> you made a mistake> you're a bad bank> you failThat's quite literally the essence of capitalism and free market. You're bad, you fail. You lose the money, someone else better than you gets it.2008 changed the game forever. You call it capitalism still but that's ridiculous after what happened then. We now effectively live under communism with a thin layer of paint on top. Total central control, planned economy, free speech is banned, government prints all the money and gives it to the party's friends. But since the officials are not walking around in funny military attire from the 60s then it's all fine.We're one happening from CBDC and total absolute lockdown of any economical activity that the state doesn't agree with.
>>62708162>those people cannot be held responsible, they're adult in body but their mind is that of an 8 years oldOkay, I can assent to that. Though by that logic why should they be allowed to vote, drive, or own guns?
>>62708236PreciselySame with vaxxiesWe need to urgently strip political right to anyone that took 3 shotsThat will not be enough but it's a step in the right direction> be retard> be issued mortgage you can't pay from retarded bank> can't pay the mortgage> bank doesn't get the money> house auctioned off (and bought by non retarded people that saved money)> bank goes underit's just that simple
>>62708236>voteVoting never mattered>driveThey have to since they have to slave to jobs they're not retarded just stupid>own gunsBlack people exist they have to defend themselves
>>62707660Isn't the purpose of the Fed to keep inflation going?
>>62707722>I am the official truth sayer
>>62708225The second amendment wasn't designed to let you overthrow the government, which makes sense, because it's never been used for that either.>I hope you're not a burger. No I don't live in a complete shithole.Governments have absolute power by definition. Obeying the law is not optional. If you disobey the law, the government can kill you. Thats what makes a government a government.Totalitarian dictatorships are good provided they work for their own people. The Chinese government is totalitarian, effective and competent. The American government is democratic, corrupt, ineffective, and works for Israel.Democracy is generally a bad idea (because people are stupid) and human rights are also bad (because they give rights to criminals who don't deserve them). The actual metrics people care about aren't "Can I vote" and "Do I have rights" but "Am I hungry today", "Can I afford a house" and "Am I safe from criminals". On every metric democracy fails badly.
>>62708063That's literally nonsense. you're retarded and simply trying to get me to shut up because you just want to validate your conclusion. I've 100% argued about this with you before and smacked your retard take so you carefully avoid saying anything that isn't drivel>NOOOO DERIVATIVE CONTRACTS THAT SUPERCEDE DEBTORS IN THE DEFAULT STRUCTURE ARE TOTALLY AS AT FAULT AS LIENED DEBTORS
>>62708524*Not as at fault. Not that it probably matters to correct given you've already vomited out a "but why didn't they pay it back" response twice alresdy
>>62707524Because its your money that is lent to fucking niggers.
>>62708061>And why would any of that be an issue if people just paid back their loans?Because it wasn't the bank's money to give away. Those mortgages that were bundled with bad mortgages were GOOD mortgages. The Banks put them together to get more money to lever, dingus. If you borrow 1,000 from someone and tell someone else that this someone will pay them $2,000 if they can pay you $3,000 today. And you don't pay any of them back because you spent that $3,000. You deserve to go to jail or at least be flogged. Like all of these bankers did.
>>62707632Unfortunately another great depression was exactly what the world needed.
>>62708534>>62708061I didn't see this retard did it again to this anon. OP's genuinely only concerned with saving his ego through whatabouttism, this is his third "why didn't they just pay it back" post
>>62707524Because all the banks, credit rating agencies and investment funds lied about the risks. Also they got bailed out from your tax money while all the little guys got nothing.
>>62707524That's not the whole story.The houses were expected to go up in value so that the subprimers could renegotiate a new loan. And they did go up in value, just not quick enough. And yes, the banks should've taken the hit. But the banking system is so integrated into society that it would cause a collapse. It's better to throw subprimers under the bus.
>>62707524it's the bank's responsibility they dont go bankrupt
>>62708545Top kek. I keep posting it because you retards keep dodging the question because you know I'm right. If people weren't retards that borrowed more than they could pay back and didn't default on their loans, would there have been a housing crisis???
>>62708527The only thing you've proved is that you're a retard with 0 critical thinking skills. Your sad attempts to obfuscate the root cause and shift blame are only convincing to you. I'll ask again until you answer: If people didn't default on their loans, would there have been a housing crisis. It's a simple yes or no answer.
>>62708899If you were poor as shit and a bank was offering you a free fucking house, you'd be retarded NOT to take it.
>>62707561clinton admin also pushed banks to make loans to "non-tradition" "cash based" workers like strippers and waiters to make the american dream accessible that's what allowed people to buy mcmansions on an income of "trust me bro it's cash"
>>62707524The housing default happened AFTER the market crash.
>>62708973Like I said if this was Clinton why did it happen immediately after Bush left office?
>>62707524Neither is true since twice as many prime borrowers defaulted as subprime.Subprime mortgages obviously didn't cause prime borrowers to default
>>62707524Arguably what actually caused the 2008 market crash was Boosh invading Iraq causing gas prices to more than double.This stalled both business activity and consumer spending which caused businesses to cut production and lay off people. After all that happened people started losing houses and credit dried upBut blaming banks or homeowners ignores the fact that Bush singlehandedly crashed the US economy by adventuring in the middle east and raising gas prices
>>62707524As always, the problem was the government guaranteeing the loans. No bank would touch half these people if they actually were accountable should it not work out.
>>62707811yes, every city in Michigan needs to be demolished
>>62709163It was a fix to the same problem 4chan spends all day bitching about- nobody could afford housesAnd it proves why the government can't fix that problem. People who can't afford houses aren't going to be able to keep their houses if you make it easier for them to buy.Basically even if the government stepped in and made sure every millennial and zoomer was approved to buy a house, they would still lose their houses because they don't know how to work.
>>62708899>>62708905>Dodging the question>Won't answer "would there be a housing crisis if people didn't default on their loans"Again your functionally retarded and trying to save your ego, this shows just how little you understand about finance.It's extremely simple and shows your retardation, why don't you lend me money at 0% if I'm going to pay back my loan? Lend it to me right now anon. I'm going to pay it back.
>"Why didn't they pay it back">Refuses to acknowledge that derivatives are a loan that actually supersedes mortgage borrowers in defaultThen you proceed to be ignorant and pretend it's I that is not acknowledging information. Your retarded anon and again it's very telling you learned from the last time we had this bait thread to talk around the points I know rather than even acknowledging you're incorrect.
>>62709175The actual problem is that boomers make it impossible to build houses anywhere that anyone wants to live.What you actually need to do is China style build a lot of tall apartment blocks, actually police them and jail people for antisocial behavior.
>>62709398>people never move around>demand for housing in different areas never changes>communist pods can be moved where they're needed>anyone wants to live in commie apartmentsWhat we actually do is collapse the economy like 2008 and shake out all the weak people who can't make it. Then we toss them in prison, mental hospitals, or retirement homes. And all the weaklings that will never make it go on 4chan and complain that boomers ripped them off even though we all know they need to find a body in the wreckage
>>62709223The fact that you CONTINUE to dodge the question just keeps proving I'm right lolol! It's ironic that you claim others don't know anything about finance when you clearly don't know how loans work. I'll dumb it down for you since you clearly need some education. If YOU borrow money, it's YOUR responsibility to pay it back. Loans are NOT free money. You sound like those retards that took out way too many student loans and are bitching about having to pay them back. Now that we got that cleared up. You should be able to anwser this question that you keep dodging. Yes or no: If the borrowers paid back the loans like they were supposed to, would there have been a housing collapse?
>>62709508>Now that you keep dodging the questionI'm not, you're just very retarded and I sincerely hope your paid to hawk this garbage and don't do it for free. Again have fun jerking it to your bait thread
>>62709518>I'm not dodging the question >I just refuse to answer.Yes or no. If no one defaulted on their loans would there have been a house crash?
>your dodging the question!>Still refuses to acknowledge that derivatives were higher in the capital structure than mortgages in 2008Sincerely if you have a brain I do hope you realize OP is a retard who is continually asking a loaded question to avoid admitting banks defaulted on loans to banks causing this. You should call him a faggot for me if you're reading this and not a bot!
>>62709525Not worth arguing with you in bad faith, I've already explained to you multiple times why you're wrong
>>62709537>Answering a simple question would prove how retarded I am so I'll just call it "bad faith."You haven't explained at all how I'm wrong. You've just parroted talking points about synthetic CDOs and derivative contracts (as if you actually know what those are) that you've heard from reddit and the Big Short. You've confused complexity with sophistication to the point you can't see the forest though the trees. And when I btfo your argument by asking very simple questions you dodge them, call it bad faith, and beg anons to side with you. Those are jew-tactics 101 except you're too retarded to use them effectively.
>>62709583>You've not explainedI literally said it here>>62709533Here>>62709235Here >>62708524And here>>62707897It's very simple, the assets that were purchased by the Fed and government were derivatives and synthetic products. Those products are higher in the default ladder and protected in special safe harbor carve outs than products like mortgages. The products that collapsed all 3 of the big defaults, AIG, Lehman, and bear stearns were derivatives or synthetic mainly in nature. The banks made loans in derivative transactions that collapsed because they mispriced the contracts. Asking about housing is stupid because it became a systemic collapse due to derivatives.You're actually a bad actor and saying the same thing to everyone because you're not looking for an explanation you're looking for a pulpit like a faggot
I additionally explained it here>>62707950Basically you're a faggot and ignoring every single post that actually wants to discuss your question in good faith and, at absolute best, pretending to be retarded. So enjoy your bait thread retard
>>62709616None of these posts:>>62709533 >>62709235 >>62708524 >>62707897 are arguments. They're just you screaming at the void that you're right. Framing them as evidence, or even arguments is unironically bad faith. >Those products are higher in the default ladder and protected in special safe harbor carve outs than products like mortgages. The products that collapsed all 3 of the big defaults, AIG, Lehman, and bear stearns were derivatives or synthetic mainly in nature.Sure you can say the contracts were mispriced all day, and the contents of the CDOs were misrepresented. That STILL does not take away from the fact that none of that matters if the loans weren't defaulted on. So I'll keep asking because you keep dodging.YES or NO: If people paid back their loans like they were SUPPOSED to, and who's RESPONSIBLEITY it was, would there have been a housing crash. If you dodge the question again by responding with ANYTHING other than a YES or a NO, it'll just prove that I'm right and you're a bad faith actor that has no idea what they're talking about.
>>62707524YES
>>62709664>None of that matters if the loans aren't defaulted onBut it does, you're just stupid. Since they're higher in the lien ladder this was an issue with the derivatives themselves. This would have happened eventually no matter the underlying.You're stupid that's all. Really nothing more to talk about
>>62707524>expecting the goyim to be accountable for anything
>>62707845i agreebut also banks are businesses and they have a duty to do good businessselling a loan to someone who obviously wont repay it is as irresponsible as taking itless regulation is better and houses should not be such a protected market which must always go up - they are a necessary good, like a car, not an investment class
Step 1:print money out of thin air and give it away to someone you know probably can’t pay it back for a houseStep 2: for close on house, now you have a hard asset bought with money printed out of thin airStep 3: profit
